The sad truth is that Mare Sheehan was never going to make it to the conclusion of the Erin McMenamin case and be lauded as a tireless hero cop. She was never going to get a redemptive arc in which a new solve casts a positive light on her past police work. No one was going to tell her that surely, the detective that busted her hump solving Erin’s murder didn’t bring just as much self-ruinous dedication to the Katie Bailey case too. No matter how amazing a detective Mare is, none of that was in the cards.
Mare’s superiors had lost faith in her. Colin Zabel, as collegial and deferent as he is, is still an underqualified man sent to supervise Mare’s superior work. Despite a solid reputation built on his work on a similar murder case, Colin betrays his inexperience in practically every conversation with Mare. If this is the guy the county brought in to supervise, they either think very highly of him or not that highly of her. Add to this the growing list of inconvenient intersections between Erin McMenamin and damn near Mare’s entire family, and the case had grown too unwieldy for Mare to handle.
But even as the conclusion of “Enter Number Two” might have been inevitable, the journey to it was far from predictable and truly heartbreaking. Mare’s now off the case, not because of any professional misstep, but rather a shocking personal transgression. And it all happens incredibly fast. Mere minutes pass between the scene in which Mare eyes the packets of heroin she smuggled out of the evidence locker and the one in which Chief Carter is insistent they speak in the rain lest she confuse his visit for a friendly one. By the time they’re whispering under umbrellas, he’s already pieced together the ugly truth of Carrie’s arrest on drug charges, and only wants to collect Mare’s badge and gun and offer her a lifeline out of pity.
Maybe it’s just the emotional impact of that great, mournful final shot from the rearview of the chief’s car, but something feels slightly unfair about the whole thing. Not unfair to Mare (who did an awful, awful thing whatever her intentions) but to the audience. It’s a quibble, but structurally I would have loved a bit more space between Mare’s life-altering decision and the consequences of it. That said, as the plot continues to accelerate, maybe there’s not simply enough space to put stuff. Mare Of Easttown is spinning a whole lot of plates, but that’s to be expected of a seven-episode limited series that spent its first hour setting up the chessboard.
For one thing, Dylan Hinchey is alive, having barely escaped death after being shot twice in the back by Erin’s angry father. Kenny admits to the crime immediately and appears to take quite a bit of pride in his act of retributive justice. But Dylan may not ever walk again, or look at his son the same way again after learning the rumors about Frank and Erin. Of course, Dylan remains a suspect for more reasons than can be counted on one hand.
Frank, for his part, declares his innocence when confronted by Mare about his lie and willingly offers himself to the police for questioning and DNA testing. Assuming the DNA test excludes Frank from fathering the child and his decent alibi holds up, Frank is no longer the surest bet for Erin’s murder. It still makes zero sense that such an innocent and noble story couldn’t have been shared with Mare sooner, so I haven’t fully taken my eye off Frank. He’s nervous about something or other.
But the “Number Two” of the episode’s title presumably refers to Deacon Mark Burton, the priest of the well-attended Saint Michael’s Parish, who had moving words about dealing with grief in a sermon following Erin’s death. He’s the last person Erin called according to her cell records, and the good deacon apparently forgot to mention the brief call to the parishioner investigating her murder. Mare brings up that oversight when she and Colin interview Deacon Mark about their conversations, and whether he had considered the ramifications of quality time with a minor given “everything that’s going on with the church.”
The Catholic Church’s reputation for shielding sexual predators comes up again, this time when an anonymous tip-line caller suggests further investigation into Deacon Mark’s recent transfer from another parish. As anyone who’s ever watched Spotlight (another great accent-heavy procedural) can attest, that transfer is not good news. The Catholic Church’s institutional practice of shuttling predatory priests from one church to another rather than rooting them out casts a dark shadow over someone with a recent, unexplained transfer. Of course, these are the least suspicious things about Deacon Mark. He dodges a second conversation with Mare and Colin, presumably to give him enough time to chuck Erin’s missing bike into a river.
Were the detective anyone else but Mare, I might suggest these considerations are someone else’s problem since Mare’s terrible plan to gain custody of Drew backfired with the force of a comet. As he’s throwing Mare’s professional future into question, Chief Carter makes a special point of mentioning the Erin McMenamin case by name and telling her to leave it alone. But in one of many great scenes in this episode, Mare demonstrates why that will be nearly impossible for her to do.
Mare and Colin are called out to a park after some kids stumble upon the finger Erin lost attempting to shield herself from the killer’s bullets. The new crime scene is a full 13 miles from the creek Erin’s body was found in, and there are traces of her blood throughout the area. At Mare’s insistence, Colin cashes in some goodwill with the county and summons a half-dozen dogs trained to sniff out firearm discharge. She puts on a master class in detective work as she follows up the K-9’s discoveries with some bloodhound work of her own. Within minutes, she’s located a bullet fragment in a tree that was previously missed by everyone else who combed the park. She’s good at this stuff, and she takes it very, very seriously.
Mare does absolutely meticulous police work because police work is the only part of her life she’s been able to successfully predict, having grown up idolizing her cop father. It’s the only place she feels truly comfortable and in her element. That’s why Mare bristles when anyone suggests she didn’t go far enough to investigate Katie Bailey’s disappearance. And it’s the same reason she’ll inevitably find ways to work the case without any jurisdiction, even though doing so could ruin the case entirely. Mare’s got a bullet in her now, one fired from her own gun only to bounce off Carrie and lodge in her vape-weathered lungs. But a lady still has to breathe, y’know?
Stray observations
- We get some more layers of Mare’s story during her date with Richard, and I’m curious as to how honest she’ll be with him about her current predicament.
- This is a strong episode for the legendary Jean Smart, who gets a lot to chew on between Helen’s explosive fight with Mare and hilarious, flirty interrogation of Richard.
- Let’s not forget Siobhan, who is working on a documentary (podcast?) about Kevin’s death and has a romantic subplot brewing with a college radio DJ. Also, I think Androgynous might be my favorite television show band since Crucifictorious.
- Safe to assume Frank and Faye will have a longer-than-planned engagement?
- Mare, after Father Mark describes himself as a mere conduit: “Just so we’re all clear, was it you on the phone with Erin or was it Christ himself?”
- I adored the Pawnee-like subplot between the Carrolls and their emo teen neighbor, who will always be referred to here as “the Lahey boy.” I’m still trying to figure out if Mare did the right thing in deleting that footage, and I’m leaning toward yes even as other decisions Mare makes don’t make as much sense.
- It’s crazy adorable that Drew wound up naming the turtle after his father.
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I’m convinced Siobhan is an integral piece to this murder mystery. Siobhan and Erin’s share being kids helping to raise young kids, nephew and son respectively. And Siobhan and Mare are trying to fill in the pieces of a young tragic death, the former with her documentary project about her late brother, and Mare, obviously with the detective work of a murder. She’s has to know more than we know. I just hope Erin’s murder doesn’t go unsolved like Katie’s. That would be a real gut punch.
As of the third episode, Katie is missing, not murdered.
Can we talk about how clunky it was to have Mare leave the drugs in a highly distinctive package? I get it had to happen for the plot… but it just seems too obvious for a veteran like Mare to overlook…
Yeah she could have taken the drugs out of the packages, replaced them with something similar looking in the packages, put them back and the count would’ve been the same. It just seemed like a dumb move by someone who doesn’t seem like she would make that mistake.
I can understand it, because it’s not Mare fully in her cop way of thinking. You hear Mare explain in this episode that one of the key reasons she became a cop is because it’s something that makes sense to her – she was familiar with the rhythms from her dad, and the procedure of investigation seems to appeal to her mindset. I get the impression that she uses the processes of policework, plus the authority provided by having a badge, to cordon off her professional work from her much messier personal life. She uses it as a refuge, and not only is this act a hindsight-is-20/20 career jeopardizing move, this act is breaking down the wall she has between her personal life and her refuge of work.
The powder was white, wasn’t it? I thought heroin was brown.I was trying to deduce if it was cocaine or meth.
“I thought heroin was brown.”It depends on where/how it was processed and its purity. TV/Movie heroin is always way more pure looking than real street stuff.
Zabel’s recounting of his big case feels off. He basically “yada yada’d” a murder investigation. You solve a case like that and catch a murderer, you want to talk about it, go over the details and crow about the moment when you looked in the perp’s eyes and knew he did it. My theory is that he suspects or knows deep down that he didn’t get the right guy. Or maybe even planted evidence, but I don’t think so. I think he just got someone missing an alibi and just enough circumstantial evidence to get a conviction. And maybe that means the murders were done by the same person.
I got the impression it was more that he was highly praised (and promoted?) because he cracked that case but doesn’t feel like he’s really earned any of that. But that’s maybe me thinking too simplistically.
That said, I don’t think he’s as terrible at his job as this reviewer does, so… *shrug*
He’s clearly pretty terrible at his job. He misses nearly everything Mare sees, as though he’s a rookie and she’s training him in. His speech about how he cracked his case was all flop sweat and improvisation. Likely it will come out that he didn’t crack the case at all — the solution to the whole thing somehow fell into his lap. He seems terrified that he will be exposed as a fraud.
I thought it was clearly shown that his approach was complementing hers… Aside from not noticing the ricochet bullets, what were all the other things he missed?
This was my take, as well. He kind of lucked into solving that crime and is uncomfortable with all the praise he’s receiving because of it, especially when he sees how good Mare is at detective work.
I also got the sense he was glossing over something.
It was definitely an interesting reply that he gave. He reacted almost as if no one had ever asked him the question before and was coming up with the answer on the spot. Interesting because you’d expect him to have a more polished answer. It still seemed truthful though, to me it seemed like he’s just slightly awkward and maybe uncomfortable blowing his own horn/trying not to seem boastful.
Another actor was supposed to play Richard, and he had to drop out, so Kate called Guy Pierce. They’re old friends since Mildred Pierce.According to interview Pierce did with Entertainment Weekly.
I think you’re replying to the wrong thread, but that’s good to know. I wonder who was originally supposed to play Richard?
I doubt that, I thought it was more telling a war story to somebody who has actually been in a war, so all the things everyone else had praised and lauded you for you know weren’t that praiseworthy or laudatory…in essence he just spammed people over and over, he became too obsessed, he won by doing the wrong things but that’s what it took, here’s your medal
I agree; it definitely feels like he’s either purposely glossing over something or he knows he didn’t really do much and the case sort of fell in his lap and made his career. The way he said “we brought her home – and that’s the important part” makes me think he realized he didn’t have the right perp but found enough evidence to convict anyway. (Which is, coincidentally, what real cops do most of the time. It’s not usually about finding who done it, it’s about finding enough evidence to convict someone, whether they did it or not.)
I read that “we brought her home” line differently – not that he thinks he arrested the wrong person, but that after putting all of that work into solving the case he didn’t really feel like he had achieved anything worth celebrating. I think the only real lie in his story was “and that’s the important part” – he tells himself that to try and feel better, but he actually thinks that the real important part is that a girl is dead and he couldn’t save her.
It’s curious that everyone seems to have read that scene differently. Here’s my take (and it’s not entirely dissimilar to EricMontreal’s analysis): Zabel is a young detective who happened to solve a big case by working the case (and himself) to death. He watches Mare at work and he feels unworthy of the praise he received for solving the previous case, because he feels like he doesn’t have the “natural instincts” that she does. But he’s missing the forest for the trees: (i) Mare has these instincts BECAUSE she’s been at it for a long time; and (ii) dogged work IS what is necessary to crack a complicated case. I’m a trial lawyer by trade and have been at it for some time now. One of my old mentors used to say to me that THE way to give yourself a chance to win any case is simply to outwork your opponent (and, of course, that’s only simple in concept, not in practice). All this stuff about being quick on your feet and being charismatic and relatable to judges, juries, etc., he’d say that stuff will come with time. And those instincts are themselves a product of preparedness. The more you know about the case, the more it opens the door to spotting issues and counter-arguments with greater ease, which in turn makes you quick on your feet and makes you able to verbally communicate in compelling ways.That’s my LONG way of saying that Zabel’s self-doubt is misplaced.
Since Mare has from the beginning been written more as a hero than anti-hero, her very heinous action against Cassie tonight, while set up in the episode, came too suddenly for me. A little. I understand all the forces that led to this self-destructive choice, but it was still surprising and disappointing, not just because I like Mare, which Winslet and the filmmakers have succeeded in making me do, but also for aesthetic reasons as we get again the cliche of a dirty cop (Mare in this one mistake). And in these times, being a TV cop that does something like what Mare did is a little harder to forgive.I must have missed Cassie being at the bar so Mare could plant the drugs in her coat. The scene very quickly went from Mare talking to Zabel to her putting the drugs in the coat. But another great episode. I love the show’s humor, which is written in a naturalistic way. Like when Zabel seemed to have made a very drunken pass to Mare and she just looked at him and sent him on his way.It’s great that Siobhan’s sexuality is not remarked on and is treated so casually, but that approach did make me wonder if Mare and Grandma indeed know. Probably. (The show tonally doesn’t look like it’ll be heading for a coming out drama, not with too much else going on.) Always terrific to see Angourie Rice. Hollywood: Make Nice Guys 2, dammit!
To me it feels like she’s been written as an anti-hero from the beginning, but we’re just finding out little by little how low she’s capable of going.
Same…as its been made quite clear, and now verbalized by Mare herself, that she wasnt a very good mother.And she’s pretty abrasive ( understandably so).Point being it was always made clear that shes flawed but trying. And her personal life is a hot mess. It was only a matter of time before her personal life began to affect her work. I wasn’t expecting this, to be fair, but it tracks more or less. Shes desperate to do right by her grandson in the way she should have for her own son.
Yeah, I didn’t find this action *all* that surprising. As someone else has said, I feel she’s been written this way from the start…
But either way, pretty sure
she didn’t plant the drugs on Cassie at the bar (and that she was in the
bar). The captain said they found the drugs planted in her glove
department—before that we saw Mare finger the drugs in her own coat at
the bar—that was her making up her mind to plant them I think (probably
what she was saying she had to think about when Colin was at the bar).
“It’s great that Siobhan’s sexuality is not remarked on and is treated so casually, but that approach did make me wonder if Mare and Grandma indeed know.”
We saw Siobhan cuddling rather intimately with her girlfriend at her dad’s engagement party. I don’t think they’re keeping it a secret from anyone.
Like when Zabel seemed to have made a very drunken pass to Mare and she just looked at him and sent him on his way.Pretty great drunk scene from Evan Peters, by the way. He’s terrific in this show, his best work since AHS: Hotel, which was a completely different animal.
I wonder if he’ll remember hitting on Mare. Because I don’t think she was feeling that. Another nice bit of realism.
Mare’s response was perfect, she was perfectly happy to take the compliment for all it was worth, she didn’t say no to spoil the moment, you got the feeling that under different circumstances she might have went for it (especially if he wasn’t about to shit himself) either out of curiosity, flattery, or self-destruction, you wondered if she was saying no mainly because of her dark intentions or if otherwise she might have self-destructed that way anyway, and she begged off it with surprising aplomb
“…she didn’t say no to spoil the moment.”Maybe she didn’t say anything to spare his feelings. If you sensed some agreement on her part that’s a bit of projection? Nah, if she’s feeling anything it’s for the writer played by Guy Pierce. Zabel is a pale, ineffectual inferior and Mare is perfectly aware of that. She is not into subs.
Mare is into self-destruction, also it would have been an opportunity to sully one of the clean-cut boys sent to supervise herYou’re projecting projection
Fuck off with your alpha/beta bullshit.
I’m surprised everyone or anyone thinks seeing a drunk cop act like a high school kid is some sign of great acting. That was a lot of dialog to get through with all the embarrassing slurring.I’m a 2 drink max person, so seeing adults drunk is a pet peeve.
Well it was his high school reunion. I don’t think he’s getting shit faced every night, like say, McNulty & Bunk on The Wire.
Thanks for referencing McNulty and Bunk and The Wire. I need to re-watch it all, again.
As an actor and a (frequent) drunk I appreciated his choices in that scene.
I felt Evan Peters over played the drunk scene a little bit, but not enough to take me out of it. I have to admit, I have seen some drunk people slur their speech every bit as much as he did, but when they were, the things they were saying made a lot less sense then he was making.
Yeah, we’ve both spent most of our lives around drunk people in this house, and my husband turned to me after that scene and said, “that might be the best job of someone acting drunk I’ve ever seen.”
I liked the content of his scene but I thought he way over-acted the drunk part. The few people I’ve ever seen who were so drunk that they sounded like that, could not move, and he was walking around (more or less). Other than that I have really enjoyed understated Evan Peters in this series, to the point that it makes me wonder if they’re setting him as up as the “guy everyone likes who gets killed near the end to inspire the main character to come to life”.
Evan Peters is almost unrecognizable in this role (like, seriously, i spent the first episode wondering when Evan Peters was supposed to show up before going OHHHH – part of that is Zabel reminds me of a friend of mine) – he’s doing a good job as someone so wholly out of their league but also unaware of how he’s been exalted as a mediocre white man his whole life.
I feel like he does have some self-awareness he’s middling. His recounting of the investigation that made he locally famous seemed rushed and incomplete, as though he’s hiding some basic facts that would underline he probably lucked into the resolution or was coached along the way to it.
I feel like he’s getting it now that he’s working with someone putting in a dogged amount of work and looking at things from every angle. I agree, it seems like he lucked into solving the other case, but I think he probably bought into his own hype a little until he started working with Mare on this one.
And now that Mare is officially off the case (and we know that won’t stop her) he will really have to take the lead as far as the public and other cops will see. But, he’ll still be learning at her knee. In the end, he may still get the credit once this is solved (assuming it is.)
He played drunkeness very well.
For AHS I was chalking him up as someone who takes his acting sky high at times; I realize Ryan Murphy is probably telling everyone to “go bigger”. Here he is subdued but believable and enjoyable to watch.
yes, Matthew Rhys in Perry Mason did some of the worst drunk acting I’ve seen in a prestige show, and Amy Adams in Sharp Objects was drinking way too many water bottles of vodka to even function, glad an actor finally seemed to get it right in one of these detective shows.
Was she at the bar? She’s in rehab, so that would be a bit off writing wise I think…but maybe she was there, I also didn’t catch that at all.
I think from the beginning Mare has been shown to be extremely stubborn in the way she acts. She’s openly rude to Faye, probably she blames her for breaking up her marriage to Frank, whether that’s fair or not, she ignored the advice of Evans character to not bust Briana in such an open manner which earned her the ire of the father, agin she ignored Colin’s advice about extending an olive branch to Carrie and first tries to say how she’ll lie in court before planting the drugs. For better or worse she is set in her way of doing things, like many a flawed police protagonist of cinema and tv.
honestly I thought after her daughter-in-law’s crack about how much her son hated her (2 weeks in a row getting slammed by some absolute bitch without response), I thought she got the drugs from the evidence locker to use herself, not to frame the DIL. But yes the time between the bar scene and getting caught was disconcerting.
I thought it was for her own use as well. I didn’t even think heroin, I thought it was more along the lines of ecstasy.It makes no sense that she’d steal drugs from the lockup and use them to frame her daughter in law. She has to know there would be at least some investigation into the allegation and it’d be easy to prove.
Not to mention that daughter in law is clearly going to use again, if she isn’t
already, and is clearly not a good person/parent. As evidenced by being
told her son has the same twitch that her husband had and decrying that
she didn’t care. All Mare has to do is wait for her to screw up.
I’m hoping that it’s just some story misdirection and she still has the drugs.
LOL yeah I’m old and wasn’t sure what was in the packet but I’ve seen the alien head before so I thought it was ecstasy too.I didn’t think that was the worst plan—I assumed evidence lockers typically have thick layers of dust on everything because once stuff goes in, it rarely if ever is seen again—but why update the log to essentially show you took 2 packets of evidence? That was so stupid it makes you wonder if she wanted to get caught for some insane reason.I don’t think it was a misdirection because she stole 2 packets of heroin, planted them in the DIL’s car, Mare called in an anonymous tip to the rehab facility, the DIL immediately guessed what happened, it was reported to the chief who quickly investigated and confirmed, and then gave her admin leave. (That was an extremely action-packed edit.)
I took the “I don’t care about that shit” as a comment about it not impacting her feelings about wanting to have son back and a rebuff to the way Mare treated her boyfriend/husband when he was a kid. I maybe wouldn’t have have if it hadn’t have been after the scene where Siobahn told the story about going to the movies.
How did Mare know Cassie would get busted with the heroin in her car?
I didn’t see Mare’s actions as too surprising. She’s been quickly coming apart at the seams since the series began (and obviously quite some time before that) and I think she could easily justify what she did as a necessary action to protect Drew. (I agree though, it’s absolutely despicable PLUS as someone with my own mental health struggles, I flinched when she started railing at Carrie about seeing things.) But I absolutely see the desperation behind what she did. The deck is stacked against her when it comes to custody – courts will always favor the parents over the grandparents if there’s any indication that the parents are suitable caregivers – and she doesn’t want to give up her last link to her son. (Plus i’m sure she is naturally concerned about Carrie’s ability to parent her child – I would be too, especially with how dismissive she was of Drew’s upheaval.)
Agreed with all that. Psychologically, Mare’s terrible choice made sense and has been set up from the first episode. But it betrayed her cop values, which isn’t an issue, but for me, it happening a tad too quickly. We’ve seen her be nothing but a good, decent cop who takes the job so seriously that she’s mad with self-guilt at a victim’s mother for questioning her efforts to solve the case. I think it was a good choice to have this episode where she betrays, rather severely, her cop integrity also have her talk about why she became a detective—because her father was one. He would feel such disappointment if he knew what she did. Like Clarice Starling’s dad would if she did something very illegal and immoral.
Would a good, decent cop have bullied a suspect the way she did Erin’s nemesis (name escapes me)? I got the emotional rationale and enjoyed the scene but it’s a clear indicator to me that Mare has trouble controlling her temper. We see this in interactions with her mom, a few moments with Richard, her initial attitude towards Colin, some of her interactions with Frank… Planting those drugs was a rash decision but the show seeded that potential throughout.
Okay I’ve not seen this episode yet, and have avoided reading any spoilers, so my prediction could be completely off base depending upon what is revealed in this episode. If that is the case, I apologize. But I wanted to make a Hail Mary prediction, based not so much on clues in the show, but on tropes of the mystery whodunnit genre. And based on that, I wanna make a big guess: I think the killer is Lori (played by Julianne Nicholson).Why? Because she’s hiding in plain sight. Agatha Christie said that her trick for deciding who the killer ought to be, is picking the one who is least likely. It’s simple, perhaps even obvious, but tricky to execute. For me, Lori is that person. She’s the friend who is helpful and supportive, trying to keep the peace between estranged friends at the honor night at their former high school. How perfect would it be if she’s actually the guilty one. Plus for a fairly smallish role, they’ve got a fairly high profile actor in Julianne Nicholson, perhaps so she can be ready with some heavy acting when she is revealed as the killer? It’s like Chekov’s gun, only casting. You don’t cast a strong actor unless you have something planned, and right now Julianne Nicholson is the gun hanging on the wall. I’m waiting for her to go into action in a bigger way.Again, I’m probably wrong. I need to rewatch the first couple episodes because I could’ve missed something. I’m more of a cheater, like the gamer who tries to find bugs. I’m trying to find clues in the story structure and character casting, to find a backdoor solution, and right now, using that cheat, this is the hunch I am getting, though again, I’m probably wrong. But I figured I’d take my long odds shot now.
Certainly that fits into the Christie mindset of “who’s the least likely killer?” but nearly half way in and I can’t think of any possible motive as of yet…
How about the daughter with Down syndrome? Wouldn’t she be “the person you least expect”?
Or the school lunchroom bully. The terrible gash on Erin’s forehead was caused by a well-aimed meatball.
That’s assuming that this series is following a traditional murder mystery/crime fiction arc, whereas this episode would seem to confirm it’s setting itself up more as a drama/character study of Mare. Generically speaking, that means it’s much more likely that the identity of the “killer” will be an anti-climax and/or de-centered in terms of plot.But if we’re going with casting choices as the key clues, then certainly the killer is Mare’s writer boyfriend Guy Pearce? I can also see the killer being Lori’s husband: that gives both Nicholson and Winslet some meaty dramatic scenes around the sense of personal betrayal while also making more sense in terms of both motive (he’s Erin’s relative and could also be her baby’s father) and the general statistics around murder (which suggest 96% of all perpetrators are male).
It will be interesting to see if your theory works out. It makes sense. As far as Chekhov’s pistol – the series is kind of loaded with ‘pistols’. Guy Pierce has as much star power as Winslet, but then he might be too obvious. The Deacon was my initial guess just because he’s so smug (and smarmy, imo).
my longshot pick for “the killer” has to be that relative of Erin’s who went with them when Mare told Erin’s dad about her death. He always seems to be looking around nervously and getting much more face time than you’d expect from a C-level actor in this cast.
Yes, Cousin Billy is at the top of my list also.
interesting theory – and would make the scene where she’s the first person that Mare tells even more interesting. “Oh no! Erin?!” Although I don’t get her motive, unless Erin knew something that she was threatening to tell her uncle John Ross.
The writing in this show is incredibly cluttered and messy, that final scene happening almost out of nowhere is is pretty much a result of that. Too many things going on without enough focus on what drives Mare to do the things she does, since the show now seems to be a character study of her rather than the murder being the central focus. True Detective S1 and S3 already layed out the blueprint on how to do these shows well – keep it simple, develop 2 or 3 characters tops and tie the case to the character development. In this, there’s all of these other things happening that divert the audiences attention as if it were a bad soap opera. The first episode I thought was borderline terrible, but the second ep was strong and this was just middling. So I’m still hopeful it delivers as we reach the final stretch. I also just really like the chemistry between Winslet and Evan Peters, the more of them working on the case the better, the rest can be thrown out for all I care.
I don’t entirely agree with you on all your points; I do like the show quite a bit and I think the main plot thread is written fairly well. That said, I strongly agree there is a bit too much plot here. Like this subplot with daughter and the radio DJ? I mean … why? It plainly has no connection to the main plot. At all. It feels shoehorned in. The cynic in me says it’s only so that HBO can say “look, we’ve included a subplot involving gay people.” Which, yeah cool. But not so cool if it feels just jammed into the show for no other reason than to say that. I hope I’m dead wrong and there’s ultimately a connection to the central plot.
The show has a lot of “realism” touches. I don’t think Siobhan’s love life is material to the A plot and that’s fine by me because it’s consistent with the tone of the show overall. The neurological concerns about Mare’s grandson don’t seem particularly relevant to the A plot either but they work. Richard is just a love interest at the moment (and god I hope he stays that way – we don’t need the cheap theatrics of an “I might have slept with a suspect!” cliche). Baby daddy jag who got shot coming to embrace fatherhood doesn’t seem A plot related. I know it’s not everyone’s cup of tea but I really appreciate and am enjoying how much the show cares about things that AREN’T the murder. (Or murders plural if the unsolved case is related. And I hope it isn’t. I hope the show ends without that prior case going anywhere because Mare is right about it and because sometimes that’s life.)
Some people are gay, mate. Nothing to be done about it I feel confident in addressing you as ‘mate’.
You’re wrong. Super wrong. The problem is that the show isn’t what you want it to be so you’re looking at what it IS and finding fault. The pilot is a masterclass in “setting the table”. The final scene didn’t happen “out of nowhere”. It was seeded all along. This is extremely good writing, contrary to your assertion.
Oh Mare, it’s just not working for you, and it won’t be worth it in the end. Likelihood that this is going to turn into an awful pile of The Undoing? Very low, still. And they wear practical coats in this series, or they get cold!Likelihood that the book Guy wrote in the 90s that all the women liked so much involves a suspiciously similar murder? Pretty high, by episode 6. Likelihood that her son didn’t commit suicide? Low. Though there are a bunch of episodes to fill and that’s certainly one suggestion to add into the mix.
Yeah, because they haven’t said what the book is about yet.
But Dylan may not ever walk again, or look at his son the same way again after learning the rumors about Frank and Erin.Like last week’s recap, is it possible your reviewer’s screener has scenes not in the regular broadcast? Or are you just projecting your assumptions about Frank’s role in this again? Dylan hasn’t heard anything about Frank yet, only that there’s a rumor that he himself is not the father.
If Mare set Carrie up I appreciate the risk written into the character and the realism in terms of predictably shitty cop behavior. I have seen plenty of detective shows involving a woman at the helm and her behavior is usually beyond reproach. From my experience -as a woman – cops are cops. Female cops aren’t more ethical than their brothers.
One other point about Frank – watch his fiance’s expression as they leave the police station. She doesn’t look or talk to him, just hands him his coat. Hearing the accusation triggered a realization in her I think, and while he probably didn’t kill Erin, he isn’t the great guy everyone thinks he is.
I noticed that, and on a show like this nothing is an accident. So yeah, she is definitely nervous about her fiancee. She seemed concerned in Ep 1 when he and Mare went off for a private conversation on the front lawn. I like Frank a lot, and hope that he is just a good guy who got divorced from Mare and has stepped up in weight class to get a much younger and better looking bride to be. Or is he a creep that preyed on a student…I guess we will find out.
Also, in terms of looks that concern me, cousin Billy is next on the list. He is hiding something from John and others.
if Billy is the strange guy who was supposed to be watching Erin’s dad but fell asleep conveniently so he could get out and shoot Dylan, then YES fully agree. I think it’s a little strange that such a seemingly peripheral character keeps getting any face time like he does.
I took her response and the nasty look she gave Mare as more of an indication of how pissed off she is to be dragged into this for no reason. Her overall demeanor seems to me of someone who will believe Frank no matter what.
I could definitely see that. But it was more than that. The way she was just looking down when Mare interrupted their game night. It was the look of someone who knows something more than she is letting on, not that of someone angry at Mare for being…Mare. At least that’s my take, but I could be wrong! Lots of misdirection here!
There’s a reason Frank wasn’t honest about what he knew, besides just keeping him in the suspect pool.Frank’s been a bad boy and it’s probably got something to do with how passive aggressive he is. I think Erin’s (hopefully) a misdirect, he probably slept with his son’s s.o. or something else as messed up.
Does anyone care to speculate why Mare deleted the excellent video evidence against Kathy Fahey (Lahey?..)‘s kid? Is that kid also the ferret with a hoodie?
I think she was trying to head off a neighbor v neighbor feud with the kid and the old lady, who seems to think everyone is guilty of something. Maybe her granddaughter should close the blinds or whatever when she’s taking a shower. Standing outside looking up at a house in broad daylight is not a crime. It’s not his fault a naked girl passed a window. If he was creeping around the house trying not to be seen, that’s a totally different matter.
I asked the same question, and I think my wife called it. She said Mare probably just didn’t want to deal with it. If there was video evidence, she’d have to do something about it, arrest the guy, and right now she’s got too much other stuff to deal with.
Thank you. That makes a lot of sense. I’m not sure why I didn’t think of that, but it does harken back to the first episode scene 1 when she told her to just call the main police # and not bother her.
That old lady is funny but she’s a PITA! Mare deleted it because the kid did what kids do (especially a goth kid targeted by some old biddie) and Mare wasn’t ready to haul him off to county for it, she brought it on herself
Whatever her motivations Mare really threw the old lady’s husband under the bus with that move. That poor guy is not going to hear the end of it fir a while.
That has probably long since accepted that he’s never going to hear the end of anything ever.
I’ll just say while worries about the plot moving too quickly are certainly justified, I think it’s preferable to the ‘slowly stretch out a thin plot’ method that almost all of HBO’s post-Chernobyl short series have taken.
I’ll sure as hell take it over Sharp Objects. Oh my god can you possibly drag out a story any slower over 8 weeks and then have major plot upheavals rushed into the last 20 minutes?
I didn’t want to call out Sharp Objects by name yet again, but yeah 100% this
If Sharp Objects was going to go that slow they should have just Malick-ed it and had slo-mo shots of roller skating and wheat and shit
One thing my fiance and I laughed at was Colin being told to get a thicker coat. You’d think he was sent up from Miami or something, but he’s the same county. “oh, damn, didn’t know this Easttown was so cold in the winter. My town, which is one town over and in the exact same climate, never gets this cold outside”.
Colin might be used to the climate, but he’s apparently not used to standing around outside at a crime scene for hours on end. It’s another indicator that he’s far less qualified for the job than we were initially led to believe.
Could be…but i think people in the north east are pretty aware of how to dress in the cold lol (having grown up in the north east myself).
I saw it as a surface-vs-substance thing. Wearing the professional-looking overcoat is performing what serious grownups dress like. Mare, being 10-is years older than him and knowing that she’ll stay out til she’s done, not cold, is wearing what I call “Fuck it, it’s January” outerwear. When she scoffed at his coat, I said, “Next scene he’ll have a brand-new parka on.” And he did.
He’s nervous about something or other.He’s probably nervous that even a disproven whisper of him having sex with a student can wreck his career and life. That kind of stink tends to linger. Assuming he’s innocent, damn that’s rough. It seemed like Mare had changed her mind about planting the heroin while talking to (a very drunk) Colin, so maybe there’s something else going on there, but I don’t know what it could be. Speaking of Colin, did anyone else find him overly humble and vague about the case he solved?Why did Mare delete the footage of the vandal??
Frank is a fucking dipshit. He was married to Mare, he should know that if she comes in wanting to speak to you right now, and you’re with a group of people, you don’t blow her off; you promptly excuse yourself and go talk to her outside (like way outside), because she will make a scene. I was yelling at him, “What, are you stupid?! Get up and go outside, idiot!” Actually, though, this might be the greatest indicator of his complete innocence, even as far as diddling around with one of his students, because a guilty conscience would have thought, “Oh shit,” and gone somewhere private immediately to talk.
your take-away was that Frank was the “dipshit”?
Is your name Frank? If so, then yes.
What bugged me about that scene was the fake boardgame they were playing. The non-product placement in this show is distracting. I mean, what were those two-liters in Kenny’s cupboard? Only real products are the beers: Rolling Rock and Yuengling, seen only from the back of the bottles but still recognizable. When Wawa was mentioned I was dying to see the goose logo for probably the first time ever in popular entertainment* but alas, no coffee cup. Please have someone pull into a Wa (why couldn’t Dawn be working at one?), or Acme, for some Tastykakes and Pennsylvania Dutch Birch Beer. The January setting precludes a trip to Rita’s. *there was a season of Survivor with a girl from Maryland who mentioned it. The captioning spelled it wah-wah. Fail.
That wasn’t a fake board game, it was vintage Trivial Pursuit. Very distinctive visually for us 80s teens.
Why the fuck didn’t he say “she was my student, I felt bad for her, I bought her some diapers.” That would be a completely reasonable response for a caring teacher to do. And the friend saying he was the dad based on that is just bizarre. Honestly? I haven’t ruled him out yet and I’ve watched through ep 6.
Mr Brightside playing in the bar distracted me from Evan Peters’ drunk story.
Then Space Age Love Song. Yeah, interesting choices. Very bar appropriate, though.
I was surprised that scene didn’t get a detailed mention in the review because I think Peters is really great in it. I don’t know if his drunkenness mannerisms are all that accurate, but I think he really nailed the emotional specifics of pouring your heart out to an acquaintance while drunk.
Here’s hoping they don’t hook up.
Why didn’t they just call this show True Detective? (I mean, I know why, but…)
Same with The Night of…
So Mare’s daughter lied to her about talking to the victim right before a murder, her ex-husband lied to her about a relationship with the victim of a murder, her mom went over her head to talk to a 4 year-old without her about him leaving their house, the daughter is making a whole documentary blaming Mare for Mare’s son’s death (and apparently blames her for EVERYTHING), the daughter-in-law who is a junkie somehow blames only Mare for her son’s death, there are no repercussions for the man who broke the window of a police detective after threatening her publicly…the ex-husband thinks that yelling at Mare about not talking about her son’s death somehow excuses him lying to her about a murder? I like this show but when you parse it out like this…?Honestly, planting the heroin, which was such a dumb idea that it didn’t belong in the show, was the first thing Mare has really done that indicates she deserves the level of contempt everybody in her family appears to have for her. Also I love the detail of the punk band scene, but I hope it goes somewhere (thematically relevant)…kind of feels like it’s from a different show. Sure I want to watch a romantic indie about Siobahn and the DJ finding love and Menzingers, but…?
I mentioned it elsewhere but Mare’s approach to Erin’s bully was also wildly unprofessional. Deleting video proof of the neighbor kid spray painting the boobs? Unprofessional. Confronting Frank at his house about the rumor? Unprofessional. The heroin plant was a big move but not entirely inconsistent.Also, there have been several hints that she handled her son’s mental/emotional issues poorly. The contempt feels deeply tied to that. Fairly or unfairly. Not solving the disappearance also feels tied to the contempt, at least for the non-family characters. Again, fairly or unfairly. I really enjoy that the show lets that fair/unfair balance hang. Mare is not a hero cop. She’s also not a corrupt ACAB cop. She’s clearly got talent for the detective part of her job and has a good head for de-escalating conflict (outside of her own). And she cares. But she often doesn’t act professional. She has a temper and a lot of repressed grief at the many kicks life has given her.
I mean…planting heroin is kind of a “Picture Day” ACAB moment. I agree with you that she is abusing her power in the interview with the asshole gf (again, wtf happened to the storyline about the catfishing? it’s almost like the second episode didn’t watch the first episode). I personally thought deleting the video of the kid was great, that lady brought it on herself, and it’s not something that should be blown up into an arrest and fine and everything, to me that’s good policework. Confronting Frank I thought was fine, I thought when you have lied to a police detective about a murder and that detective says “talk to me now” you go and do it, case closed, doesn’t matter if the detective is your ex. But yeah, the fair/unfair part is cloudy, or was before the heroin planting, now it’s tough to feel bad for her. (I think shows trying to walk this line often trip up somewhere and have a character do something that is unforgivable…Snowpiercer has that problem with some of its main characters, the show tried to handle it by having EVERYBODY forced to commit atrocities, but that’s not the same thing as how several of the main characters have been killing people and taking their arms off regularly for years when the show begins…good show, tho)
Deleting the video and confronting Frank were both personal decisions made from emotion. She didn’t want to deal with the hassle of the graffiti and she was pissed at Frank. Regardless of her *feelings*, she should have retained the video. A citizen called about a crime, there’s proof of the criminal in question. Professionally speaking, it was her job to keep that footage. Frank should have been questioned at the station, not at his house. And lest you think my “shoulda” statements are show criticisms, they aren’t. I *like* that Mare is not entirely professional. I like that her emotions best her sometimes. And I think planting the heroin is consistent with her characterization. I even think her being so obvious and sloppy about it is consistent.
Ehhh, maybe it was unprofessional not to go over and give the kid a talking to, but I don’t think that failure to prosecute every little brush-up is unprofessional, that’s some broken-windows stuff that leads to what we have now: it’s mainly enforced on minorities. Sometimes the cop throws the coke baggie in the garbage and says he didn’t see anything.She was pissed at Frank because he lied to her but also because he lied to a police detective about events surrounding a murder, which her dumbass daughter did also. I agree she shoulda done it at the station, even hauling him out from game night would have been professional ;)I just think the heroin move was lazy (and as most people on here agree, badly and abruptly handled)…the other day there was a cipher on the Blacklist and it eventually turned out to be 1 is A, 2 is B…like, try harder.
We’re getting too far into the weeds on professional vs right. I actually do agree with her decision ultimately BUT I think she should have talked to the kid. The fact that she didn’t implies that it wasn’t a matter of mountain/molehill, it was avoiding a hassle. My point in bringing it up is that it’s an example of her not doing her job “correctly” and thus another seed for the drug planting that some viewers are griping about. It doesn’t matter if WE think deleting the video is the “right” move, it matters that she did it for her *own* reasons. Combine that with the hints about other behavior and she has some selfish impulses. (Which is wonderful! A flawed protagonist who has human faults? Yeah!)I think how the planting turned out was purposeful. It’s meant to show that Mare, regardless of how smart she is about her work, gets sloppy and impulsive when she’s pissed. It might even be a demonstration that Mare, feeling overwhelmed by a lack of progress on the Katie case and the difficulties of her life, subconsciously bungled the drug plant to get herself suspended. That might be generous of me. But I think the pilot episode’s lengthy establishment of character and world before introducing the A plot of the series backs up that generosity.
I don’t have a problem with subconscious bungling, it’s more “forgetting that you are a police officer and would know exactly how not to make every one of these mistakes and do something this ineptly”But other than that all coolio 🙂
In truth that particular complaint isn’t unreasonable, I just get defensive of writers. Especially when they’re doing such good work. It feels like nitpicking to me and both my inner writer and inner teacher of writers wants to shout “LEAVE THEM ALONE YOU DO-NOTHINGS!” (Because my defensive voice is also presumptuous and assumes that viewers criticizing writers are themselves not creatives. Which is totally unfair.)
you don’t need a doctorate to criticize a popular entertainment
As the parent of a young adult on the spectrum, I thought she spoke about her son’s issues in a way that rang very true, and that she clearly had been a very engaged parent, even thought she said she let Frank take charge of all that. She grasped the complexity of her son’s atypical neurology and her alarm about her grandson seemed like a positive reflection of her ability as a parent/grandparent, especially one who has learned from experience. She seemed very realistically exhausted and broken by that particular parenting journey.
Mare’s vaping on this show is out of hand and it’s starting to effect my ability to take her seriously.Is this show really some anti-vaping stealth campaign versus a detective show?
i’m glad this is on HBO. If this was on Showtime…
Now the priest, who I think has been there over a year, is now a possible suspect in the missing girl case. But, I’m guessing that this has to drag out farther, so he’ll be cleared eventually, that she called him to drive her home, he gave her and her bike a ride home (flat tire?), forgot he had the bike, now he has to dump the bike since he’s now a suspect (with a suspicious past). So, now what? Also, Mare’s cousin pastor knows stuff, too, and is keeping it from Mare.Still on the “Uncle Billy’s The Father” Bandwagon. Too many lingering shots of his poker face. So, he waits for her to come home, calls her over, drives her out to the park, shoots her when she is thinking about revealing their secret affair/his rape, dumps her body back at The Woods.
I keep expecting the two pastors to start making out. Is it just me?
yes assumed those creepy fucks are fucking
Mare’s cousin isn’t creepy — at least not to me, yet — but the other guy is both very handsome and rather sketchy. But, hey, I’d rather the two adults get it on instead of diddling children. Good for Mare raising that issue.
priests are inherently creepy to me.
Well, yeah, they molest children.
Gonna admit I was wrong about the gun having blanks, but, I will crow about being right that Dylan was was not killed.So, we have a bullet from Dylan, a bullet from up a tree. What say, same gun? (‘cause, Billy.)
Did I miss it or does it not matter who found Dylan and brought him to the hospital? He certainly didn’t get there on his own. The same hiker who found Erin? Now there’s a suspect.
Not sure who the hiker was, but Dylan was found by Erin’s father’s relatives. (One of which is, I think, Erin’s killer.) Her father told them where he shot him.
The beardo cousins found Erin’s father but I don’t recall them saying anything about finding Dylan. If you say so, definitely missed that.
Oh, you’re right! Guessing crazy neighbor punk (graffiti “artist”) is out hiking in the woods at night, sees everything, tells no one anything. Until the last episode, of course.
Okay good, the ep held my attention beginning to end so I didn’t think I missed anything but I had to watch it on my desktop rather than the tele so maybe I did, I thought.
“Mare’s superiors had lost faith in her. Colin Zabel, as collegial and deferent as he is, is still an underqualified man sent to supervise Mare’s superior work.”Honestly, it was refreshing to see ANY of Mare’s “superior” work in this episode, as I was beginning to doubt she had any good detective skills AT ALL. She is wildly inappropriate to be on this case, and I was really annoyed when she was so defensive about having outside help brought in. If one of my relatives were murdered in Easttown, given the circumstances, I would beg the Governor to send in State Police or assign any different Agency to investigate, given that I would know:1. Mare’s daughter was one of the last people to see the victim alive (and kept this from her).2. Mare’s ex-husband was the victim’s teacher, and had a pretty extensive relationship with the victim (more than Mare knew, how much yet to be seen).3. Mare’s cousin, the priest, is a great friend of another prime suspect.4. Mare has failed to close a similar murder/disappearance from two years ago.We, the Audience also know:5. Mare deletes evidence of crimes committed against people who annoy her. Evidence that belongs to them.6. Mare PLANTS EVIDENCE on people she is having personal disputes with. This is an atrocious felony, not just a personal lapse but one of the biggest ethical/professional lapse a law enforcement official can make. Not only is this an immediately fire-able offense, Mare should be behind bars.Why on Earth would someone this compromised be investigating this crime at all? Does it say anything that Mare is too wrapped up in herself to see how this would look from the outside. Why would she not recuse herself from investigating the case? Why does she even want it?The Chief has said that she is “worth saving,” but honestly, has the audience seen any evidence that this is the case? She seems almost universally disliked and way, way, way, too close to this case to be doing anything other than consulting an outside Agency. Also – she has done a terrible thing for personal benefit, betraying the trust in her office. Things like this would bring up questions on any case Mare has EVER been on.Mare’s superior detective skills failed to detect her family connections until given outside breaks. She also seems to have taken the Priest’s phone, but rather than checking GPS/tower locations she appears to have checked the text messages(?).Love the show – just hope it doesn’t red-herring along for too many episodes and gets interesting quickly.
I don’t know if you all knew this, but Kate Winslet is a phenomenal actor. It kind of just hit me recently. She’s unbelievably good.
Her Philly accent isn’t as good a Toni Collette’s in The Sixth Sense but she aiiight.
Wudder you talkin’ about?
I’ve lived all but five of my forty-seven years in or close to Philly, and every other pronunciation of “water” sounds weird to me. Don’t know if Toni said that word in SS but if she did it sounded good enough for me not to notice how right it was.
Toni Collette is a national treasure, no doubt about it.I’m also loving hearing about all this Philly-specific stuff from you. Thanks!
Yes. Yes she is. Hollywood is lucky to have her and when she gets her Oscar I shall woot in exultance. Don’t get me started on how good, say, Blow Out is and how good Fallen isn’t. (Man, Fallen sucks; geographically, it’s the anti-Sixth Sense which nailed it. If you’re not gonna do Philly properly, why bother? Fucking Mannequin gets the area more right.)Now I’m off to Wa for a shortie and a pretzoo. If you want a cheesesteak you’re on yo’ own, yo.
I am hyper aware of everyone trying to do the accent. It takes me out of the show a little bit. It seems a bit over the top. Jean Smart doesn’t seem to do the accent, which is nice.
Holding out for someone saying “Schuylkill” and yes of course I spelled that without looking it up. Too bad the show’s set in January – no one’s gonna be getting a water ice.
reply fial
After last week’s episode, my husband turned to me and asked, “Who’s that?” pointing to Mare dressed up for Richard’s book party (or something). “Uh, that’s Kate Winslet.” Indeed. I haven’t seen many of her films, so I hadn’t given her much thought, but I do now.
I’m in the exact same boat as you. I always was just like, “Oh, I love her in Extras,” but I’ve never been too interested in the stuff in which she’s starred, so we never really crossed paths. Until now!Felt the same way about Sandra Bullock after seeing Gravity.
I can totally see Mare planting evidence against dipshit daughter-in-law (or whatever her legal standing is), but to use those specifically labeled packets that the Chief could identify on the spot? BLAH!
Possibly being overly generous, I thought that just demonstrated how desperate and pissed off she is.
A scene of her crying frustratingly or being really pissed off would have helped.
I can’t be the only one seeing Winslet barely holding back a tirade of cursing and some thrown punches.
So if this were an 80’s cop drama starring oh… let’s say Mel Gibson. It tracks that by about this time he would be taken off the case because, “You’re getting too close to the case Mel! Your work is getting sloppy! And my god! You shouldn’t have beat the hell out of a suspect. He’s lawyering up. YOU’RE OFF THE CASE! Leave your badge and gun on the desk and get outta here! Take some time off and get your life together, Mel.”So Mare of Easttown is still hitting these markers, but just in a (fairly riveting) 2010/2015 opioid depression small town setting. Preview for next week shows more involvement from the cold case – so the cops are going to have to bring her back in. Plus another anonymous tip? Who’s the tipster?
Frank should have told her his “innocent and noble story” (assuming it’s the truth and will hold up), but I feel sure Mary would have used it to accuse him of nefarious actions – “You were alone in your car with a teenage student? You were buying supplies for her infant son?” She would have been suspicious, and he knows it.
The drug planting…”You’re off the case!”… Turning in her gun and badge… Cop must now continue to work on the case on the sly…I’m enjoying the show because Winslet is such a great actress, but this latest development is definitely the lowlight of this show so far.
The third ep is the weakest thus far, I agree.
Even in a non-covid world boygenius wouldn’t have been touring in 2020 because Phoebe Bridger’s had a solo record out and Julien Baker was back in college finishing her degree.
Just wanted to point out that a deacon and a priest in the Catholic church are not the same thing. The recap and some of the comments use the terms interchangeably. Deacons can wear a clerical collar like priests do. Mark, who tossed the bike into the river, is a deacon. Father Dan (who’s related to Mare) is a priest.
“Jinx!” I laughed.
Mare had been a very interesting flawed protagonist up until now—what she attempted to gain custody of Drew was borderline irredeemable, no wonder her son and everyone else in her family fucking hated her.
So, what a fly sees in Mare’s writing room?
a white board with the same lines written all over it: “grimmer, let’s make this show grimmer and its characters unhappier! And antiheroes, we need more antiheroes, even if they are galactically stupid!
Like Mare, the detective who can find a bullet in a forest and at the same time she can do the stupidest of things to frame the mother of her grandson. Alright. Ok. Sure! whaaaateva!