Despite the three-week gap between episodes, Batwoman hasn’t lost any of the momentum from “An Un-Birthday Present.” The new Beth’s unnatural, splitting headaches while in Kate’s care threatens Beth’s life, Alice’s life, and Kate’s moment of happiness. So far, Batwoman has done well when there are super high stakes, which is typically the case with most Arrowverse shows. Still, Batwoman definitely has found its own formula for success, and it includes Rachel Skarsten’s Alice, insane tension, and Ruby Rose’s ability to dig into Kate’s immense emotions. This episode combines all of that, and it makes this one of the best in the season.
“This isn’t guilt. This is courage,” Beth tells Kate after seeing the Batcave for the first time. While it takes Kate a little bit of time to finally show Beth who she is in her spare time, the reveal doesn’t really seem to shock to her sister. And Beth’s statement is what Kate really needs to hear. Sure, she’s the Paragon of Courage, but as we saw in the last episode, Kate is still a prisoner to the guilt she’s carried since she was 13, when she was unable to save the other Beth. For her sister to point out that even she sees the courage in Kate’s heart is hugely important for Kate. The moment is tainted when Alice comes to Wayne Enterprises and reminds Kate yet again of the trauma she suffered because of the crash.
Since the midseason finale, Kate has shown that she wants to move forward, and even seems willing to cut ties with Alice. She is no longer out to save her sister or bring her back. Alice has severely hurt Mary and their family. Kate can’t see the good in Alice anymore and is out to put a stop to her even if that means killing Alice. Now, with (a) Beth back in her life, Kate gets a glimpse into what it could be like with her sister back in a way that doesn’t involve Beth/Alice. As the end of the last episode foreshadows, Kate faces an incredibly hard decision: which Beth gets to live and which has to die? They both can’t live in the same universe, thanks to their genetic makeup. Despite Kate’s change of heart and Alice’s transgressions, the decision isn’t getting any easier.
Kate is still inherently a good person. Even though she has disgust in her heart for Alice’s actions, there’s a part of Kate that doesn’t want Alice to die and maybe still holds out hope for redemption of some kind. Even though that’s frustrating to watch, it is very much a part of who Kate is. So when fate forces her to choose either Alice or Beth, it’s tough.
The writing on Batwoman has been so solid this season that it’s a little hard to guess whether Kate chooses Alice or Beth. For all the reasons above and the way the scene was set up, the episode draws out the suspense when it comes to who Kate will choose to save. Her decision is made all the more difficult by the fact that Beth is such an angel that she won’t even blame Kate for choosing Alice over her. In the end, Kate makes the right decision and saves New Beth. And this is where Batwoman gives audiences the best scene in the series so far.
Arrowverse shows are known for their action, world-building, and bringing iconic DC characters to life. But they’re also known for creating characters that have heart, who are able to connect with audiences in powerful way. Batwoman proves with this episode that not only can it deliver on heartwrenching moments, but it can also keep them in suspense. When Kate and Alice are left sobbing on the dirty makeshift hospital floor, it’s such a raw and intimate moment. Kate is already mourning the loss of Beth all over again, and also grieving the hope she still has until the very end that she can save Alice from her insanity and trauma. The scene wipes away the capes and the childhood rhymes. Instead, all you have left on that floor are two sisters who can finally cry over their screwed-up situation, and hold on to each other in a way they haven’t been able to.
Of course, it all comes crumbling down when August Cartwright shoots Beth to death, which restores Alice to maximum health. And that tender display that consumed everyone for a good few minutes is completely gone, thanks to a metal tray. Even though things will go back to the way they were, with Alice ready to kill Kate and her family at the drop of a (mad) hat, we’ll always have that moment of Kate sobbing into Alice’s petticoats.
The Crows’ harm to the city is finally examined in this episode. This group’s history has been a glaring problem since the beginning of the show. It’s been obvious that Gotham would benefit more from funneling millions of dollars into improving the city’s infrastructure, education system, and medical facilities, instead of creating a company that caters to the rich and elite. But now Jacob Kane’s decision to create a militarized state with his own money under the guise of a private security firm is biting all of them in the butt. Not only does this get Jacob shanked in jail, but it creates a hot-headed monster in Sophie.
This development also allows the creation of lockdowns and checkpoints in the city and makes it harder for Beth’s existence, prior to her death. Sophie has proven that she is highly flawed, and she’s done nothing to redeem herself so far. And as the episodes go on, Kate’s connection to her grows more tenuous. Even though that’s good in the long run, it also highlights how unstable and incompetent Sophie is at her job. Batwoman really isn’t doing anything to get viewers on Sophie’s side, even after trying to muster up compassion by showing her backstory.
Since no one knows August Cartwright is back, it makes sense that Kate and Luke don’t take any precautions; they certainly don’t expect him to be on the hunt for Alice or someone that looks like her. However, they shouldn’t have kept Beth a complete secret, at least not from the Crows and Sophie. Kate already told Sophie that she is Batwoman. It would make a lot more sense for Kate to just tell her about Beth, with visible proof. If they had done this, Beth would have been able to stay put in the Wayne building, and it would have kept her safe and alive.
Overall, this episode proves how strong of a show Batwoman is. It mixes all of the vital, strong elements of the series to create an outstanding episode. But beyond that, it showcases Ruby Rose’s connection to Kate Kane and her ability to bring out that emotional side to her. Kate doesn’t show how hurt she is often, but when she does, Rose captures it so well.
Stray observations:
- With Kara involved in helping Batwoman come out to the world a couple of episodes ago, and now Luke telling Kate to involve Supergirl and The Flash in their issues, it’s nice having these little things to connect them all. They’ve, of course, always been the Arrowverse together, but ever since Crisis on Infinite Earths, they’ve done more in this series to join them in the same narrative. It would be nice if there were little cameos here and there, kind of like how The Flash and Arrow did in their first few seasons, especially considering how close Kate and Kara are now.
- For a city that’s supposedly on mega-high alert for Alice, she can still easily sneak in and out of places with impressive ease. Yes, it’s Alice, but still. And don’t even get me started on her meeting with Mouse in the hospital. “24-hour watch,” my butt.
- Mary really held her own against Alice in their fight, but her frustration with Kate is growing. While I don’t think it’ll spill into anything major, she’s still hurting after the loss of her mother and Kate siding with Alice all this time. Kate still hasn’t told Mary that she’s Batwoman and now Alice is back to normal. It really makes you wonder what Mary’s mindset will be when she inevitably finds out Kate is Batwoman.
- The whole “Kate’s soulmate” conversation was way too pointed to not be someone we know. Odds are it’s Sophie, but I really don’t want it to be Sophie. Fingers crossed it’s someone else. PLEASE!
- Speaking of soulmates, was that flirting we saw between Beth and Luke? As much as it was cute to see, now we all have to live with the depressing reality that Beth’s gone. We were rooting for your love life, Luke! We really were.
109 Comments
Beth getting killed was super predictable since they weren’t going to get ride of Alice, but at least Sophie wasn’t the one who shot her.
I think that she’ll be blamed for it anyways.
If it keeps her and Kate apart I’m not complaining.
The only reason I’ll complain is because Kate will eventually figure it out.
Well yeah, because they’re “Soulmates”
I kind of thought that they’d merge and be more unpredictable than ever.
ooh, that would have been an interesting take.
Balice!
That was clearly the best option for the show. Take two entertaining but fundamentally unsustainable characters and merge them into one character with the opportunity to develop into someone who can actually stay on the show long-term.
i was hoping for this!
i really HATE that they didn’t just finish the Alice storyline and move on. Not like they had to lose a cast member. Just keep Beth around. The only good thing to come out of it is that it’s just going to be SUPER awkward now for Kate and Alice.
– I thought that the license plate changing was cool, but they already know who they are.
– “Batwoman” is not the Arrowverse show where I expected them to explain the doppleganger fallout.
– Dodgeson still exists.
– Are they ever going to detail Dodgeson’s vendetta against the Crows? (Okay, he said some stuff, but it still feels more personal than what he was talking about.)
– It would be interdimensional, not intergalactic…planetary…planetary, intergalactic. It’s about another dimension, another dimension.
– And so they bring class warfare back into the picture.
– “Oh, look. Another sister.” Favorite line of the night.
– When was the last time that you saw a phone like that?
– This is kind of shallow, but I don’t like Ruby’s new haircut.
– Alice still believes in Kate.
– If that choice storyline had been shown on “Arrow”, it would have been overdone and felt really cheesy. Here it actually feels significant.
– I did think that it would be Sophie that would kill Beth, but now I just think that Kate will blame her for it.
Ruby’s new haircut is distracting.
“Batwoman” is not the Arrowverse show where I expected them to explain the doppleganger fallout.The thing with Beth and Alice was kinda weird since we had two Winns on Supergirl and they never experienced any cellular degradation. And at one point there were like FIVE Brainys. Though they weren’t around all that long.
Not only that, Flash has a multiple Wells right now. It seems like they should have some up with a specific reason that THIS duo was special. “When I came through the cracks between worlds I must have interacted with a blah blah blah plot device that linked my life force with my counterpart on this Earth. But those are only theoretical, the odds are so small.” I mean the astrophysicist version could say it.
We don’t know that there actually are multiple Wells. That could just be in Wells head.
They’ve physically had the Council of Wells show up and interact. To be fair, they didn’t stay long and Beth/Alice didn’t show effects immediately.
That was before the Crisis. The multiverse has now been collapsed into one universe. That’s what Beth was talking about. Now that the multiverse is only one universe, it can no longer support doppelgangers.
It’s not one universe. The Universe’s relevant to the tvs collapsed into one another but as we saw at the end of Crisis, a new multiverse has been created. The heroes believe ther eis only one and it may be harder for them to access other universes.
Yeah been thinking b about that too. I think it was implied that Beth was around for quite some time before the degradation started, and it got worse the closer she got and the longer she stayed in Gotham.
Mmmaybe… Winn’s Legion ring shielded him? Those things have force fields, right? And evil Winn wasn’t around for long before being digitized, so maybe it would’ve happened eventually….
Wow. I think I just watched the best Arrowverse episode ever. It was so tight, so twisting, and all the performances were top-notch.
So you’re not watching Legends, are you?
God Jeezus fuck I hope Sophie is not supposed to be Kate’s soulmate. They are bad for each and it gets worse by the episode. This reminds me of how they originally got Barry and Iris together on The Flash with all their talk about fate and what not. And that wasn’t good either.It would have been more interesting if they had had Beth be the one to survive but I guess Alice has to survive to face off against Mouse’s Dad.Once again I feel like the Crows being corrupt should have come up sooner. Much like Catherine’s crimes and actions (Nice to her again, gloating about Alice’s imminent death) they’ve really gone unexplained for too long.
yeah, it’s strange how these shows don’t realise that “you have to be together, fate says so, you don’t have a say in it, so why does it matter what your personalities are who cares” isn’t actually a compelling romantic narrative for most people.
I loved Mary explaining why Batwoman helped them get Beth through the checkpoint as being due to Batwoman liking her. And also owing her a favor. She is not wrong about either thing. I liked Mary having scenes with Alice, though they hate each other it still is cool to have the show’s two best characters work together. And I like that Alice is gradually realizing that she like everyone else has been underestimating Mary. I am not accepting that Kate’s soulmate is Sophie, sorry. Maybe Alex? I don’t think that Kate has come out to Sophie as being Batwoman has she? I think her ploy with having Alfred’s daughter impersonate her created plausible deniability that it might not be her, at least.
No not Alex, I don’t see them doing cross show romance. They do not quite have Grey’s Anatomy levels of integration.
They are all on the same earth now, so I would not rule out Kate-Alex, which could bring greater cross-show integration with it
Kara would be the biggest fangirl for their relationship.
I had not even thought about that, but Kara would so be supportive of Alex & her fellow paragon Kate being a couple
No she wouldn’t because Alex already has a fucking girlfriend. Just because you don’t like the relationship doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.
That and doesn’t Alex already have a girlfriend?
It’s, uh, kind of easy to forget Kelly’s still on the show.
Yes Kelly, whose only a slight improvement over Sophie in that she doesn’t actively sabotage Alex.
Is it too much to ask them to bring in Floriana Lima as Maggie Sawyer and finally make right the wrongs the comics did to Kate all those years ago? Or has there been too much baggage from Alex/Maggie?
The main thing standing in the way of Floriana Lima coming on board as Maggie Sawyer is that she requested to be let go as a regular on Supergirl after one season as she apparently didn’t want to play the part (or shoot in Vancouver?) any more
That makes sense. They could just recast her, then. I liked her as Maggie, but if she was to be recasted I wouldn’t mind it as much as, say, I’d mind the Flash bringing back Patty Spivot not played by Shantel VanSanten.
that, or recast her as a post-crisis maggie if lima doesn’t want to come back.
Since Avalance is too good to break up, Kate needs to ease Nyssa’s loneliness.
Kate & Nyssa would be incredible Would Sara be jealous?
Sara also has Ava.
I’d list off all the reasons why Mary was awesome tonight, but there’s not enough time and space. So I’ll just reiterate: Mary is awesome.Sebastian Roche Is Just A Mask was a legitimately great twist.I was getting pretty frustrated with Sophie this episode, so I was genuinely relieved when she didn’t kill Beth. And while I really liked how that whole thing went down (Sophie almost took the shot but changed her mind; Cartwright took the shot) it’s hard not to wonder how both of them knew exactly where Luke and Beth were going to go, and had enough time to set up. (Also that the latter even knew there was an alternate Beth and that she needed to die for Alice to live, I guess?)The editing and cinematography toward the end was a little weird, and there was a bit of a dream-like quality to the whole thing, so I kept expecting it to be revealed that one of the Kates was a hallucination, or Beth would turn into Alice after Alice died or something.That being said, Catherine telling Alice there was a seat for her in hell was truly delicious.
it’s hard not to wonder how both of them knew exactly where Luke and Beth were going to go, and had enough time to set up.guesswork after knowing which Crows checkpoint they blew through? she’d still need a faster mode of transportation than the Batbike though.
Cartwright knew there was an alternate Beth because Mouse knew. He tortured the info out of him.
Good catch. I didn’t even think of that.
(Also that the latter even knew there was an alternate Beth and that she needed to die for Alice to live, I guess?)
He thought it WAS Alice, which is why he killed her.
Yeah, that makes more sense.
Kate already told Sophie that she is Batwoman. It would make a lot more sense for Kate to just tell her about Beth, with visible proof. If they had done this, Beth would have been able to stay put in the Wayne building, and it would have kept her safe and alive.Didn’t they already walk back Sophie knowing Kate’s Batwoman? Or at least try to give Sophie plausible deniability? And IMO the smart move was to hide Beth in the Batcave until they could parade Alice’s dead body around Gotham.-Did Mary just possum Alice into a false sense of security and then win a surprise fight? BAMF-Beth asks Kate what Luke’s deal is. Amused at the running joke this is becoming after Supergirl called him cute and the flirtation with Mary.-Oh, no. I hate the trope where X tells Y how obviously meant for each other Y and Z are. I appreciate that they subverted it by having Beth refuse to tell Kate who she thought it was out of troll-ishness.
They did, they did a fake out with Alfred’s daughter to trick Sophie into thinking it wasn’t her.
I think Alfred’s daughter (as I recall she acted alone) did that to fake out Jacob and the Crows not Sophie in particular.
No it was deliberately to fool Sophie by having them both in the same room at the same time.
This was way too obvious and predictable. We all knew there was no way two of them could stay around and that Alice would never be the one who dies. I also suspected that doctor to be Cartwright from the start. I’m just glad Kate chose Beth.
Seriously? You found it predictable?The setup had me plausibly believing they would find some way around it (like have the two merge; or have Beth survive and take on aspects of Alice). And even then, I would never have guessed that it would play out this way. I thought it was pretty brilliant: once again, Kate chose not to save Beth.
Yep. Sometimes, I think I just consume too much media because I get this feeling so many times. And this ‘good Beth’ storyline just went through the numbers quick – Kate finds out she exists, realises this is the Beth she always wanted and then just gets hit with more guilt because this Beth was saved by her Kate and she didn’t save hers. And almost instantly the doubles, predictably, can’t both live and Kate has to make a choice. She picks the good one but of course the one we know lives. Now, Alice has a reason to hate Kate even more and Kate is hit with even more guilt. I suppose it’s a way of getting her out of kill Alice on sight mode.
The only part I was surprised a little by was Kate actually making that decision. I thought she would consider it for so long someone else would take the decision out of her hand. And I admit I hoped a little they might be merged but that wouldn’t go with the hit Kate with more guilt about Alice thing they’ve been doing all season so it wasn’t a big hope.
You can see how good Beth isn’t really a character but plot device in a way she only has all these wonderful qualities – smart, kind, understanding, loving. She’s basically an angel – not made for this world. We barely have time to know her before she has to be sacrificed.
As for Cartwright he had to be back. The bigger bad to Alice. Someone who her and Kate can fight together – and they both have reasons now. I kept waiting for him to show up in the present and the way Campbell was introduced and behaving he was the most obvious pick.
This is a good storyline for the show – especially in the first season – but it was than in such a paint by numbers way that it ended being way to predictable too me. And they didn’t spend enough time on making Beth a person for me to actually do more then sigh when she died.
I liked how they played the revelation that alt-earth Beth avoided Alice’s trauma because her earth’s Kate saved her before the car plunged off the bridge. Both Alice and Kate realized that meant that Alice’s fate was our Kate’s fault, as both of them (somewhat unfairly) already believed, and they did not have to say this or even look at each other for this to silently register with both of them
Yes, Kate and Alice relationship, their interlocked traumas and the guilt and anger that comes with that is the best part of the show and this plotline. It hits both in their own ways and humanises Alice and makes Kate easier to empathise even as she endangers multiple people for her sister. The best part of this storyline for me is seeing how the consequences of all that happened yesterday are going to hit.
I was shocked that Alice actually expected Kate to choose to save her, but of course she does feel their sisterly connection & knows that Kate does too. That was a surprising and very effective twist I thought
I think Alice generally thought Kate would forgive her everything. That she can hold the guilt of abandoning her over Kate and always use it to get away with breaking rules and promises. That it was only fair after all she has been through. And it was also a way to separate Kate from all those other evil people that failed Beth (from Cathrine to their father) until she was only Alice’s and could join Alice and Mouse in their little cabal.
But of course we already saw Alice pushed to far with Cathrine. Kate was already ready to abandon her and this good Beth thing just made it clear to Alice that Kate won’t forgive everything and love her above all no matter what. Now they both know where they stand and I’m really interested how that changes their dynamic. Especially now that they also have common enemy.
The only obvious element was Beth’s death. The way they got there was very well-scripted. Some tropes are obvious, but a good story can suspend your disbelief and make you forget what you already know.
I think for me the biggest issue was that they didn’t spend enough time on making Beth a person. She’s just collection of goodness traits – smart, loving, compassionate – the ideal of sister. She’s such a walking sacrifice both the need for a choice (they can’t both exist in the same Universe) and her eventual death (she’s the new and amazing) was inevitable. Everything else was just extension of that.
I was hoping they’d do something clever and have Cartwright and Mouse be the Big Bad for the second half of the season rather than Alice and keep Beth to round out the supporting cast a bit more. But I’ve grown to dislike season long Big Bads and like a midseason shake-up.
I was hoping this was the end of Mouse, the character really annoys me for some reason.
“We all knew there was no way two of them could stay around and that Alice would never be the one who dies.”Everybody knew this. However, the pathway to getting there was well done and hardly predictable.
I was super relieved when Kate chose Beth, then super annoyed when I realized what was going to happen. I saw that this was ep 12, and was really kind of hoping that Batwoman was going to take the half-season villain thing that Arrow and Flash started doing and just move on. Especially since it didn’t get a full series order until after the premiere, I’d hope they just finish the Alice thing by now.Also, it’s the freaking BATCAVE. You really think the Crows are going to be able to get in and find Beth? Just stay in the goddam cave!
This was a decent episode, not without frustrations though. I guess it earns its A with that scene on the hospital floor. Kate did the right thing by healing Beth and then going to sit with Alice while she died. Truly and admittedly it dug as deep as anything the CW ever has done. If only it had worked out that way! Alice croaking like that, would have been a nice send-off. Part of me was hoping Kate would go a little cold on Alice at the end. Bitter tears. She just killed your receptionist and stuffed him in a closet! “He had a mom and dad … he had a pension … he had a collection of NBA bobble heads. We have to hire a new guy and explain that the old guy got murdered at his desk! I mourn you Alice, but you went from run-of-the-mill mayhem to mass murder six or seven episodes ago. Buh-bye.”I was wanting two things: First, that this show could get past Crisis. For me the Batverse pairs uncomfortably with the supernatural. Crisis kind of dropped Kate in the deep end right off the jump. I needed either more easing into it, or I need them to blow past it quickly. Second, that the show get past Alice. Don’t get me wrong, Alice is Kate’s Joker. She (and the actress) are literally killing it. But I need a page to turn here. Hopefully that bedside scene has really once and for all ended any heartstrings either sister can pull on the other. They are fucking enemies – case closed. And hopefully the emergence of a few creepy villains this week – and the tease of a vampire (supernatural or no) next week – can get a rotation of different fiends going. PS. Do we even want Kate to find a soul-mate? The cowl is for grouchy loners, right? Idk, Kate should ask Kara to go out on a date. It would never happen. But in the aftermath, Kate would shrug it off while Kara would dissolve in a hilarious bout of nervous twitches, hug a pillow, and reevaluate her entire life. PPS. I wonder if they let Rachel Maddow improv or tweak her own dialogue. The mammogram quip was very Maddow-esque.
The soul-mate thing may allow her to distinguish herself from Batman, though. She has to live a life much like him, but she does it with someone she loves by her side.
I can get behind this as well as TOTO’s comment about Terry. You’re right. Kate shouldn’t be locked into Bruce’s life. She can have her own story.
I really enjoy the Alice material, but I think criticisms that the show leans on it too much are fair. It keeps the rest of the world and other characters from feeling fleshed out. And there may very well come a time sooner rather than later when they’ll have already overplayed their hand, and it will be exhausting to have yet another Alice-centric episode.SPOILERS FOR THE PROMO
I was legitimately glad to see that next week’s episode looks to be a one-off villain. They definitely need to spend more time on these kinds of standalones.
Batman Beyond opened me up to the idea that alternate Bat-people could have relationships. Bruce Wayne may have been a grouchy loner, but Terry was not.
Kate should ask Kara to go out on a date. It would never happen. But in the aftermath, Kate would shrug it off while Kara would dissolve in a hilarious bout of nervous twitches, hug a pillow, and reevaluate her entire life.LOL I love it.
I’m kinda hoping we get a mix of the traditional Broody Bat and… well, Stephanie Brown when you get right down to it. Feels like that’d be a nice mix for the CWverse and give a bit more room to move for a 20+ episode season or seven.
Well I’m glad some people enjoyed it, but this was the proverbial straw that broke the camel’s back for me. I’ve been watching all the Arrowverse shows since season 1 of Arrow so I know the formula to these shows all too well but I was praying for the show to do something, ANYTHING, besides end the way we all knew it would. Alice is not a Reverse Flash or a Lex Luthor, she’s way more stoppable than any of those characters, but the way the plot bends over backwards to let her keep getting away is infuriating. I’ll probably keep watching (or at least the finale) because sunk cost fallacy, but for me this is the episode that made me stop hoping the show will improve and just accept is bad.
It wasn’t a camel’s back deal for me, but after the show not being on for three weeks I realised that I just don’t give a shit about any of the characters apart from Mary and Luke. Likewise, I’ll watch until the season finale but I don’t expect either the main hero or villain to get any more intriguing, which is a shit place for a show to be in when it’s still in its first season.
Holy dead doppelganger, Batwoman, that shit was DARK.
Also: Sophie is still the worst. At least she didn’t take Beth out herself like I was expecting.
Why is she the worst? Honest question. I wasn’t paying close attention, so the only Sophie scene I saw was when she told Batwoman the Crows would catch Alice.
This is an awful thing to say but… glad it’s not just me that thinks Sophie is a pretty terrible person. To be clear that’s not an acting criticism at all but oh she’s difficult to warm to. Might be gearing up to take the Bad Decisions crown from Barry at this rate!So can we finally put this nonsense to bed about Ruby somehow not being any good in the role? Easily as good as Stephen or Grant were in their first seasons and in many ways it’s a trickier role. She’s been spot on to this point, handles pretty much anything thrown at her and I can’t wait to see what happens when they finally let her and Melissa out to play for a full episode or two. I’m expecting an entire disc in the box set just for the bloopers!Talking of which Kate’s solemate is so Kara. Not necessarily in a romantic way (aside from anything else I’m not sure any of us have the patience for the Superbat / Supercorp war that’d break out) but I’m struggling to think of any pairing across the CWVerse that have clicked as quickly or thoroughly as those two have. Plus it’d be hilarious to have Supergirl show up in Gotham occasionally and finger-flick the villain of the week into the next state.Something else that’s been building for a while is how interesting this Gotham is becoming. Very nice contrast to the other cities we get to see on Earth Prime and creates some interesting possibilities down the road. Oh and the new chinless cowl is really nice and gives Ruby a little more to work with in the suit. Now if *only* they’d get Luke to airbrush the bat on the utility belt to match Kate’s symbol not Bruce’s…
I don’t think that Kara is Kate’s soulmate, but it says something about what great chemistry they have that she was the first possibility that I immediately thought of as soon as that was mentioned
Oh I dunno, aside from anything else it’s going to make the blow easier when Mary inevitably finds out Kate’s wearing the cowl. Mary:“There’s nothing you can say or do to make this better!” Kate:“Umm… I know Supergirl and she brought ice cream?” Mary:“…….don’t do it again.” (Slightly more serious, yeah yeah, I know they won’t go that route but it’s damn cool we can at least make a semi-canon argument for it and speaks volumes to how well some of the CW stuff comes together. Still want a Supergirl and Batwoman vs Dracula adaptation for halloween though, such an underrated issue of Batgirl even by the criminally under-rated standards of the entire Stephanie Brown run).
This was a disappointing episode. Unless they do something new, the Kate/Alice storyline is starting to run into Flash territory of stretching a villain storyline extremely thin. Sort of stretched, like butter scraped over too much bread. I won’t say the ending was predictable, but it wasn’t surprising either. It elicited a “of fucking course they did” from me. The thing I DID see coming a mile away was Cartwright’s appearance. It was the glasses, and the way he talked that gave it away for me before the big reveal.
Did they modify the batwoman suit? It looked like the neck area was different.
Alice’s “death” scene was great, but everyone was frustratingly plot-required-stupid in this episode. Why did they have to zip Beth out in the open when everyone was looking to kill her? Why not wait until Alice was dead and then call in the location of her body to the Crows? Then the heat would have been off.
They keep bringing up Coryana, then talk about Kate’s soulmate…..Safiyah, maybe?
I am not surprised they killed off Beth but I am a little disappointed. The Alice plot has been becoming a little one note and I would have liked to see them take a break from it for a bit.
Even without killing Beth off, I have to agree here — I’m suffering from Alice fatigue. Gotham is rife enough with villains, let’s cycle some more new ones in.
Was really hoping they’d do the half-season villain thing, and was really, really relieved when it looked like Alice might actually die. The whole fakeout of seeing Kate show up there where you’re supposed to think she’s gonna save Alice and then the flashback to saving Beth… really sold you on thinking Alice was toast. Then they swerved again. And that kinda sucks. How many more Alice in Wonderland quotes can this show cram in? The Alice plot in the comics didn’t even last 12 issues, did it?
The whole “Kate’s soulmate” conversation was way too pointed to not be someone we know. Odds are it’s Sophie, but I really don’t want it to be Sophie. Fingers crossed it’s someone else. PLEASE!It would be nice if they could bring Floriana Lima in from Supergirl as Maggie Sawyer. Especially for season 2 to focus more on Gotham City PD and less on the Crows.
This was SO GOOD. It was really an emotional rollercoaster. Everyone brought their A game, but Rachel Skarsten?! Has any Arrowverse actor won an award? If not she needs to be the first. Top tier performance from her and even Ruby Rose is getting better. If this is gonna be how the back half goes, count me all the way in.I know that some people are getting Alice fatigue and I can get that, but she’s just too good to completely let go. In 12 episodes she’s become what Thawne is to The Flash, what Deathstroke was to Arrrow, what Lex is to the Supers, and what Damien Darkh is to the Legends. She’s here to stay. Maybe give her one final big showdown, let her kill Cartwright, and thensend her to Arkham for her to inevitably break out in like S3 lol.
I am hopeful that after this season we get Alice on a path to gradual redemption as the Red Alice version of the character from the comics, a Killer Frost-like quasi-reformed ally of the good guys Rachel Skarsten is too good for the show to willingly lose & the Kate-Alice relationship too complicated and important to the show
They mentioned Supergirl and Flash but didn’t go the extra step of “And we asked Cisco but he couldn’t think of how to fix our multiverse problem (because they still mistakenly think there’s only one universe now)“.Why on earth did Kate leave it to the very last minute and only urged by Luke to take Beth to the Batcave when the Crows were closing in? Her secret identity is not that important. Also, why not hold tight in the Batcave? Any way you look at it it’s way more secure than sending Luke and Beth through checkpoints. Just send Kate out to say “Alice lied to you, stop tearing up my offices.”
Yeah, this scenario is literally one of the only times I can’t handwave “Crisis put us all on the same Earth” because for crimefighting and whatever, sure — Superman’s off planet, Flash is doing some Speed Force shit or whatever, etc.But literally you are friends with the head of the DEO and all its scientific resources on aliens, the two experts on multiversal theory (including one, Caitlin, who’s a doctor), etc.And it’s not like Kara (who we know you’re talking to) or Barry can’t get Beth out of the city and into a secure location for examination without the Crows knowing…
Yeah, I can’t believe they thought out in the open on random street was more secure than the GODDAM BATCAVE. Bruce operated out of there for years, you think anyone who happens to find the elevator can just get in? That elevator doesn’t have an OFF switch? That was the worst part of the ep.
This is the same contrived, nonsensical diabolus ex machina bullshit that made me temporarily quit Supernatural after they killed Madison.I hereby quit this show for a while.
See you next week!
Oh, it’s going to be at least three months. Unless Kara shows up.
Was hoping for Beth to survive but only to have her do a really slow burn decline into Alice (2.0) again. that or Mirakuru.
I really thought we were going to have all the characters be wrong about Beth and Alice and that we would get the merged version from the comics.I tell ya, the actress has been holding me onto Sophie for a bit (maybe just thinking she was Braeden on Teen Wolf, and honestly wondering what happened to her after Malia defeated her mother, I mean, taking her into custody probably, but still).
When the plastic surgeon was expressing disbelief as someone being able to wear a skin mask and accurately portray somebody else, I thought “But you live in Gotham! And on a planet where there are people with superpowers! How is this skin mask stuff so unbelievable?” but then of course it turned out to be EVIL DOCTOR DAD aaaaaaiiiieeeeeeeeeeThe whole Alice/Beth choice situation was excellent! Yes, saving Beth was a “no brainer” but morally, she doesn’t belong on this Earth so doesn’t have a right to live on it. I thought that might help Kate decide on Alice, but nope she did make, on one level, the right choice. Then taking Beth out of the picture like that was masterful, followed by Alice’s unbridled rage at being left to die. This can only mean the gloves are well and truly off!
There is so much inconsistency w/ Alice’s fighting abilities. She has held her own with, and I think has even gotten the better of, Kate but also struggles with Mary who does not appear to have any fighting skills whatsoever. I know it’s about plot convenience but maybe establish Alice has certain fighting skills, even if not conventional.
It’s also about Alice was dying. As the day went on both versions got weaker.
I’m talking about the overall course of the show. I would figure Kate/BW would handle Alice in a straight up one on one fight yet Alice holds her own (I’m not counting cheap shots here). However, Alice struggled w Mary who does not have fighting skills at all. It might be good to establish how Alice learned to fight.
In this episode Alice is dying. That’s why Mary is able to hold her own against her here. Alice without this disease/whatever would wipe the floor with Mary.
Ok, but how is Alice able to go toe-to-toe w/ Kate in hand-to-hand combat? Kate was trained in extreme conditions like Bruce did so in a fair fight she should have no problem w/ Alice. Sure, Alice can fight dirty which can help but I see Alice holding her own conventionally which begs the question how did she train this whole time? The mean streets of Gotham? I don’t think the Joker(at least in most continuities in case someone tries to bring that up) took Batman on one-on-one w/o any gimmicks to take the upper hand.
We don’t know all of Alice’s history after she got free from her abduction. I assume she spent years training to be a great fighter, since her plan was to form a gang and have them follow her orders to take over Gotham.
Perhaps, just saying the show could have done a better job of establishing that. Maybe I’m asking too much of the show to do that though.
Beth is the new uncle Ben lol
I’m head-canon-ing that Alice / Beth is so crazy and unique that they’re the only multi-verse doppelganger pairing that had trouble living in the same universe (maybe they’re just too extreme sides and the episode did mention that it was a fluke) because on Supergirl otherwise we’ll have universe doppelgangers dropping dead dramatically and I really don’t want the (now two) bartenders to have to chose who lives or dies.
I like this show well enough, and really want to love it, but Ruby Rose’s wooden acting is still dragging the whole thing down for me. Even when she was sobbing on the floor with Alice, it didn’t look like she was actually sobbing, it looked like an actor trying really hard to make it look like they were sobbing, and it completely ruined it for me.
“Kate already told Sophie that she is Batwoman.”Wait, when did this happen? Alfred’s niece (?) helped Kate convince Sophie that Kate is not Batwoman.
As much as I find Rachel Skarsten great as Alice, I’m growing tired of that character, and I was really rooting for Beth. Kate being doubtful about which one to save was nonsense on so many levels, and I was glad she did the “no-brainer” choice, to quote Mary, maybe the only sensible person on that show, and my favorite character by far. Then, of course the writers got to kill off Beth, because they’d rather stay in the comfort zone of Alice instead of fleshing out a new character like Beth. Lazy writing is what this is. Maybe I’m done with this show.