“I wonder how long we’re going to put up with them?” Ed muses to Kelly towards the end of tonight’s episode, “Deflectors”. He’s speaking of the Moclans, and his own increasing difficulty in reconciling their strict, reactionary society with how much they’ve done to help advance the Union’s technology. But the same sentiment could apply to the show. The Moclans, with their signature literalism and enthusiastic violence, are a fun species, but they need to be used judiciously. And it feels like the show is beginning to draw on them too heavily to frame the myriad sex and gender political premises. For the most part, “Deflectors” was deft enough in its storytelling to overcome Moclan fatigue; I just hope they’re used more sparingly for the rest of the season.
But before we delve too deeply into the strange tale of Locar (Kevin Daniels) the engineer, I just want to discuss the episode’s B-story: Kelly and Cassius’ breakup. It was an inevitability they would split, as Cassius was by design a completely underdeveloped character. He had zero purpose except to be Kelly’s boyfriend for however long the writers wanted to maintain that extra layer of obstacle between Ed and Kelly’s possible reunion. So it can’t be said that his post-breakup antics —the constant texts, cheesy poetry, and sentient alien flowers sent to Kelly’s quarters— were out of character, since he didn’t have much character to be out of. It did have the effect of keeping any of the jokes from landing, since there was nothing to contrast his behavior against. It’s fine for Cassius to be a narrative place holder; it’s a long and noble television tradition. But there was never anything to him that suggested he could be otherwise. He’s nondescript handsome, easygoing until the plot demanded he wasn’t, and even his job as a school teacher is the kind of benign, altruistic, and not too showy television profession that allows you to establish someone as at least a reasonably moral romantic partner without having to prod that notion any deeper. Even the off-hand manner in which he was dumped at the top of the episode had a listless, perfunctory air. But whatever. He’s gone now, and with Ed’s last girlfriend actually being a member of an evil race of space vampires, it looks like the table is cleared for Ed and Kelly’s possible reconciliation. I guess in my heart, I always sort of hoped the show would just let that aspect of the premise fade away. Ed and Kelly have great chemistry as friends, and I’ve never once been captivated by the will they or won’t they aspect of their relationship. But The Orville is, so we’ll see where it all goes from here.
Okay, back to Locar! One of Moclus’ finest engineers boards the Orville to help upgrade the shield system. When he first comes aboard, we learn that he and Bortus used to date. Neither one discloses the reason for the breakup; though it’s obvious Bortus carries more tension about their former relationship than Locar does. At first that seems like a setup for a fairly straight-forward conflict between Bortus, Locar, and Klyden, but it ends up being more involved than that. During his time aboard the ship it becomes obvious that Locar is developing an interest in Talla. This becomes explicit when he confronts her in her quarters to confess that he’s one of the rare Moclans who are attracted to women. Locar explains that being attracted to women is a genetic anomaly viewed the same way as all anomalies are among the Moclans —harshly. I enjoy how The Orville uses a homosexual species to embody a reactionary culture. It’s a minor tweak on our own culture’s conservative heteronormative fearmongering that’s just different enough to demonstrate how often bigotry is a side effect of cultural dominance, regardless of what that culture may be.
Talla leads Locar to Kelly’s small town USA simulation where the two begin to kiss. When Talla is briefly called away, Klyden —who has an astonishing knack for showing up at simulators at narratively opportune times— arrives to confront Locar. Talla returns, Locar is gone, and according to the ship’s biosensors, nowhere on board. When a John and Isaac reconstruct a playback of the scene, it appears that Klyden disintegrated Locar.
The mystery provided opportunity for Talla to come into stronger definition as a character. She unashamedly admits to the Moclan captain and crew that Locar was attracted to her, that she reciprocated, and that they were all being assholes for freaking out about it. Later, when she and Bortus were alone to talk about Klyden’s alleged crime, she confronted Bortus about his ambivalence around his son’s sex change as a reason why he should be sympathetic to Locar’s plight. In both situations she was right, but also clomped through each conversation so aggressively and with such little regard for who she was speaking with that she did more harm than good. Talla has been framed as a harder-edged version of Alara, but this is the first chance we’ve had to see what that looks like.
Eventually, the crew figures out Locar is using his powers of super-engineering to doctor simulator footage to make it appear as though he were murdered, hide his bio-signs, and cloak himself on the ship. While Talla discovers him hiding on a shuttle, where he tells her directly if she turns him over to his people, his punishment will be on her. It’s manipulative and unfair, especially since he framed an innocent man for murder, but an emotionally honest reaction to being hurt, and exhausted, and out of options. And sure enough, there’s no escape. He is brought to Moclus for sentencing, as incapable of affecting change or sympathy among his people as anyone who has tried before.
Stray Observations
- The rumor is Bruce Willis voiced that giant plant. Seth Macfarlane is cashing in all his favors to get some real big names to show up and deliver some really forgettable performances.
- I don’t begrudge Seth MacFarlane’s obsession with post-war Americana, but it proved to be a distraction here. I appreciate using the simulator as a way to create visually distinct scenes on an episode otherwise confined to the ship, but using a 20th century neighborhood as a backdrop for a breakup and then an awkward courtship and fake murder never resonated.
- Locar’s heterosexuality raises further questions about Moclan physiology. As an all-male species, attraction to biological females concurrently means attraction to aliens. That’s an intense biological drive to produce both hetero and xenosexuality. Or maybe it’s just that the attraction to the female sex is so strong, the secondary nature of the person’s species is irrelevant. It’s safe to assume if a female-born Moclan wasn’t given reassignment surgery, a Moclan heterosexual would be attracted to them as well. None of this matter to the story, it’s just what I thought about during commercial breaks.
- I want Bortus and Klyden to be happy, but after tonight’s episode, my sympathies for Klyden have evaporated. Sure, he’s always been the more conventional of the couple, but his contempt of Locar felt too germane to our real-world bigotry. This is the first episode where the crew struggles to come to terms with a culture so distinct from Union values and that accounting is a more interesting dimension of a species usually played for laughs.
- Talla’s claim that this must surely be the craziest thing to ever happen on board the ship only to be countered by John and Gordon rattling off everything they’ve been through was great.
- So was Gordon’s pride in deducing the grisly details of Moclan dating rituals. “Let me guess, then they eat the tooth!”
- I enjoyed Ed walking off with Kelly’s cookie bouquet.
- “This is Betty!” “That is not my concern.”
173 Comments
I liked the episode but I wonder if it was unintentionally cribbing from the TNG episode “The Outcast”. The plots seemed very similar and had a similar downer ending.
The faked death is also a nod to the TOS episode Court Martial. I suspect any cribbing is purely intentional.
yep, started off as another Trek rehash but then went several steps further and became an episode in its own right. which is wonderful as most season one episodes were mashups of trek plots. but then again, i didnt really watch TOS (i know, i know, kill me) so maybe just another clever mashup.also, love the show tackling homophobia in a real way. the furthest Trek went in this regard was DS9’s Chimera (a masterpiece nonetheless).
i didnt really watch TOS (i know, i know, kill me)
I haven’t either, and I’ve tried. It just looks so bad. It makes it impossible to watch for me.
I have the same problem trying to watch Classic Doctor Who. I really, really want to, but man it’s hard.
Ok, settle down all of you.ST-TOS persists because it holds up extremely well 50+ yrs later. After allowing for some pacing issues of the era, the writing, acting, and direction are all engaging and you ought to consider at least a top 10 or 15 ep watch if you hope to consider your classic sci-fi education complete.As for Classic Doctor Who- this is a tougher one.
Classic Doctor Who has two main problems:
1- tossing aside good sci-fi premises in favor of pat dramatic beats and endings.
2- each serial is always one ep too long. Both are are def deal killers if you aren’t some sort of fan.
The first two Doctor’s eps are practically clothes-folding television. Start with the 2nd Doctor’s final serial. Watch the 3rd Doctor’s first and last season. Then watch all of Doctor Four’s run (His time with Romana gets better and better). Watch Doctor Five’s ‘Caves of Androzani’ -it’s important for some reason. ‘Trial of a Time Lord’ is interesting as an arc (and I like Doctor Six’s, uh, forthrightness). Watch some Doctor Six for his dynamic with Ace, at least the King Arthur serial.
To its credit, this is one of the rare times the Orville actually managed to improve on what they were copying, although those were lesser eps, it is still an accomplishment for this writing group.
Every episode is cribbed from TNG
They have a real problem with Toxic Moclaninity.
Damn, dude. This wins top comment for all of Season 2.
As much as I don’t care for how reactionary Moclans are, the unpeeling of their culture and biology suggests that they might have good reasons for keeping a tight reign on their populace as they have and reasons why they eliminated women from their world which may have as much to do with biology as culture. I am beginning to suspect that as a species they engaged in a whole lot more bloodshed in the past and require pretty strict order in order not to fall into a chaos of sexual violence. So the degree of condescending judgement we get from non-Moclan is likely to be rather misplaces, especially since the show had demonstrated that they really aren’t too far from Union norms.Why do I say this?Well, its not as though standard Union culture doesn’t have its own punishments for victimless crimes. Moloy, one of the top pilots in the fleet’s career was ruined because he had a habit of drawing dicks on walls in public spaces. We’ve seen numerous cases where the Captain and crew of the Orville have botched contact with aliens due to their condescending attitude towards alien customs that has resulted in them using tactics which range from dirty tricks to outright murder to get out of their situations, even when they have been ordered not to.And then there was the use of a date rape drug on two ambassadors who came to them in good faith, after botching said diplomatic mission, to force them into a non-consensual sexual relationship, and received no discipline for that action, suggesting that coercing people with the use of drugs is somehow acceptable under Union law. And really, if its okay to do that to *anyone*, how is what the Moclans do to their own people any more odious. .
Someone really needs to install a lock on that simulator door.
/a real lock.
You would think that would be the responsibility of the the ship’s security chief.
I do like that they haven’t been letting the Moclans horrible practices just slide. Also wow, Khylden just gets worse and worse everytime we see him huh?
Seth Macfarlane is cashing in all his favors to get some real big names to show up and deliver some really forgettable performances. Forget the Picard Maneuver; meet the MacFarlane Maneuver.
Despite the writers seeming to feel the need to use daytime TV talk shows as their source of how to write character interactions regarding relationship problems, this ep and the previous one are about the strongest written episodes I’ve seen on Orville, not to mention having little to do with Captain Ed for all their best parts. Its still seems like the writers room is all about what nostalgic TNG ep do we want to do this week, but to their credit they are doing it more deftly than they used to.
Alara had her moments, but I’m finding Talla much more watchable.
My first reaction to Talla was that, because she was Xelayan, they just changed the name from Alara in a few scripts and went about their business. But I don’t think this episode works with Alara as the object of Locar’s affections. She was too green, too inexperienced, wishy washy and insecure (maybe her experiences returning home may have toughened her up had she stayed, but I doubt it). Talla, being older and more experienced, exudes a toughness and confidence that Alara just lacked. I think it makes her a better fit for the show, and Locar’s attraction to her is completely understandable.
It also sells her determination to solve the murder. She has a certain gravitas in leading the investigation that serves the story well.I think the show is better off for her addition. Plus, it sets up the punchline of her learning how screwed up the ship is.
I like Talla better than Alara too. This is one of the rare instances in television where replacing a character works. Like Rebecca replacing Diane on “Cheers.” It also helps that “The Orville” is still a relatively new show.
You’re saying that Rebecca was better than Diane?!? This is heresy. You probably think Woody was better than Coach too.
If you use Alaya’s family as the model, Talla seems to be more Xelayan; more arrogant, more assertive and more opinionated.
It was a nice touch to establish that, unlike Alara, her whole family are “black sheep” and she didn’t face any conflicts about joining the service.
And this makes her characterization as being more straightforward and confident than Alara make sense.. Talla probably had to learn not to give a shit about living up to expectations a loooooong time ago.
Mrs. Funkhouser and I agree the Alara actress would not have pulled those scenes off effectively the way Szohr did.
Would those scenes even have existed if it was Alaya rather than Talla on the ship? It looked to me like this script wouldn’t have worked for Alaya, which makes me wonder what was going on behind the scenes.
Yeah, that was my point. That a script like this is kind of proof that they didn’t just change the names from Alara to Talla in some of the scripts they were developing. This seems like it was specifically written to showcase Talla and her strengths as an investigator.It’s not that the scenes would exist with Alara. It’s that you don’t write this story at all with Alara.
You have to remember, Alara is retarded to her people.So yes, she’s profoundly insecure.Shes smart to us but to her people she may as well have down syndrome. It would take nothing less than absolute self mastery to overcome that level of insecurity.
I greatly prefer Talla to Alara. The actress is better, imo as well.
I just want to know how you turn up uninvited in the Xelayan security chief’s quarters and not get literally thrown out.
I’m sure as the show goes on I’ll warm up to Talla’s character, but for some (subjective) reason Alara was integral to my enjoyment of the show. Maybe I identify with her insecurity. Meanwhile the show is in danger of becoming an outer space Peyton Place. What, there’s one more episode for this season? Hope they’re not putting themselves out too much.
By my count there are 7 episodes left for this season.
Thank you! That’s good to know. I was just assuming they were doing the 10 episode season like South Park or something. Assuming without knowing. I’ll never learn.
It looks like they’re doing 13-episode seasons.
1 episode was held over from season 1 making 14 total for season 2
So, the episode’s structure as a double-sided mystery requires a narrative structure that might be interpreted as a flaw.Namely, the fact that we see Klyden go into the simulator before Locar is supposedly murdered. And when the fuzzy image says exactly what Klyden said, it’s no surprise to the audience when the characters decode the hologram and it turns out to be Klyden. It raises the obvious question of why even bother showing Klyden entering the simulator to begin with if it would make for a more shocking reveal.But for the twist of the story to work, the audience has to see Klyden go into the simulator because that’s what sets up the motivation for Locar to pull off his charade, and specifically to pin it on Klyden. Without it, it just makes Locar look like an a-hole for randomly picking on Klyden, and not give him the sympathy we need to have for him.So, those few minutes in between us thinking it was Klyden and the characters finding out too made the structure seem weird to me, to the point where I was able to deduce that Locar was probably still alive and used the incident to fake his death to avoid his society’s taboos. Usually this would be a problem for an episode like this, but then Talla announced the same conclusion about a minute or two after I thought it, so at least the show didn’t keep its own characters in the dark for very long.I also figured Locar used his engineering background to mask his biosigns. But I figured he was still hiding in the simulator, as if living it up in post-war Paris (and the simulator was stuck in that mode for a long time for some reason). Then I was hoping Talla, when asked where he was, would just shut off the simulator, revealing him in the corner now that his hiding spot was gone. I guess the shuttle thing works well enough too.
I’d prefer your plot tweak.
My wife and I also saw the twist coming, because TV. However, given the information Talla had at the time, wouldn’t her most logical conclusion have been “He committed suicide but made it look like murder!”, rather than “He’s still alive!”?
Maybe, but I think the fact that the weapon was supposedly holographic when that’s really not possible, and the fact that the “true killer” was so easy to find, keyed her into the idea that the whole murder was a simulation and that led her to conclude the level of deception. Plus she might have had an instinct that he wasn’t the suicide type.
“I think the fact that the weapon was supposedly holographic when that’s really not possible, ”If the show had needed it to be possible, it would have been possible. It may STILL be “possible” (when the idea was raised, the crew’s response wasn’t “That’s impossible!” but ”That’s an amazing trick!”), given the track record of Sci-Fi Adventure entertainment.
Well, yeah, obviously they can invent whatever tech they need for the story to work since its a fictional show. But that wasn’t the question. The question was what led her to think he was still alive rather than he actually killed himself. But the fact that she assumed he was alive indicates that within the Orville universe it was an easier explanation for what was going on than for someone to create a deadly holographic weapon, from the perspective of the characters. So in this case the story didn’t need the holographic weapon to be real.
My original thought was that Locar decided to kill himself after being confronted by Klyden. He made it seem like a murder in order to protect his family. It didn’t occur to me that everything in the recreation was fake.
Who, Seth MacFarlane and Halston Sage?
What are you referring or replying to? Like, what about them?
The headline of the article + the fact that they were dating for awhile + the fact that he’s twice her age which still tends to provoke eyerolls, though not prejudice. Does that provide sufficient context, Mr. Data? 🙂
Is that why she left the show?
Oh, there’s plenty of prejudice about age-inappropriate dating.That’s why it’s called age-inappropriate.
Given the ongoing theme Alara had of not being successful in relationships, I have to wonder if this script was originally written with her. I could totally see her considering a relationship with Locar given her frustration at her past failures.
I’m a bit tired of MacFarlane’s obsession with Moclans as his weird way of telling LGBTQ stories. That he chose Bortus et al to be the focus of these stories tells a lot about how much the importance of their “otherness” is to him, and also he cherishes his ability to mock them because “aliens can be made fun of no matter how close are the parallels to humans” seems to be his rule of thumb.This story is so weirdly coded. It, at once, sort of touches on stigma of bisexuality, but it’s also a straightforward gay story in the way that Locar is persecuted for having a “non-traditional” attraction. And it has interspecies relationship, which is just not commented upon at all.And the self-congratulatory way MacFarlane tells these stories started to grate way back in season 1. His main tone seems to be “look how much more we are developed”.
That’s the future for ya’, bein’ all evolved an’ sheit.
Well, it had to be an inter-species relationship because there are no Moclan females. (OK, we saw one and there may be a few others but it’s likely they stay well hidden for their own safety.)
Bortus is technically the only Male Moclan on the ship, his mate and child were both born female.
It doesn’t just deal with the non-traditional attraction. Look at the B-story of Kelly and Cassius. Everything that Cass does is “normal” in our society. But looking through the glass of it being on a spaceship and stuff makes it feel even more depressing.The talking flower (Bruce Willis) is a perfect example. Cass thinks flowers and cookies will help win her back but he obviously isn’t interested in her feelings because she blatantly puts it out there when she dumps him. He goes and gets a “friend” (not sure if it’s a friend since he “owe’d him one”) and tells him about the relationship in hopes that the flower will help win her back.
Kelly tells the flower straight up “This is my relationship, not yours, so butt out” (paraphrasing). Sure, by the end of the episode they are “ok” but Cass is still basically running away because he doesn’t get his way.This episode took a look at all types of relationships, and to just focus on one aspect, that was written in a way for these stories to come naturally, is just ridiculous.
Right now on the ship, we’re dealing with all kinds of relationships. From last episode (and throw away line in this one) we have Issac (a robot) with the Doc, Moclan homosexual couples, heterosexual couples, divorced couples, loving friendships, etc.
Oh man your Orville Derangement Syndrome is in its final stages. I am so sorry.
Not really sure what you’re talking about. But I do enjoy the show. I’m not fanatical about it… but I don’t understand what you’re talking about.
It’s ok. It will all be over soon.
Nobody was talking about any other relationships, though. They were talking about this type of relationship, which has been done increasingly badly and uncomfortably.I will go to the goddamn battleships before I let them cancel Star Trek: Orville, but you can’t just hashtag notallmen all of the problematic bits away.
I’m not trying to notallmen anything here, I’m just pointing out that they are doing other types of relationships on this show and it’s also not being done well. This show has a very clear issue doing social issues, but at least its trying.
I mean talking about it is the first step. Would you rather them just not have these other relationships? Just straight couples?
I agree with you about all the different types of relationships. Relationships are messy. Sure, ST:TNG represented a utopia where none of this messiness existed, but I always thought it was a little simplistic to have none of this conflict exist (or if it did, for all of it to be resolved by a pontificating speech from Picard or one of the other crew members). I think that small level of realism is one of The Orville’s strengths.
I agree. And showing ALL the relationships being messy makes it even more believable. I mean Ed and Kelly’s relationship is obviously rocky. Bortus and his husband has plenty of issues, etc…. I mean even the relationship between the “federation” and the Krill. the relationship between the orville and Issac…
Self congratulatory is a good way of putting it. The show reminds me of what Star Trek would be like if they had no prime directive. True, ST ignored it often, but this crew spends an inordinate amount of time pontificating how morally superior they are.In this season alone, cultural behaviors they do not agree with are “nuts,” “messed up,” “unevolved,” and they look forward to cultures “advancing” to become more like them. They even tricked an entire planet, altering their core belief system on false pretenses (another soapbox, this time on religion).ST:TNG characters may have felt the same way, but they did not arrogantly bitch about it all the time. There is a fine line between tackling serious issues, and simply using a script as a soapbox.
The show reminds me of what Star Trek would be like if they had no prime directive.
An equivalent of the Prime Directive exists in The Orville, too, as we saw just a few episodes ago.
Oh, on TNG and VOY, a lot of time was spent pontificating, most notably Captain’s Picard and Hepburn regarding how morally superior they were. To their credit, Kirk and Sisko actually offered introspection along with pontification. But at this point, Mercer doesn’t have a moral leg to stand on.
Dare I say it, but it’s very much like an American Exceptionalist take on the Prime Directive. “We sincerely believe in not interfering with other cultures (as long they’re palatable to ours).” These guys are like the guys who think it’s OK to invade Iraq because Iraq doesn’t have baseball and McDonalds.Clumsy metaphor, I know, and I’m tired, but that’s what it feels like. “No, this isn’t patronising colonialism – I know it’s really what these people actually want. Even if they say they don’t.”
Absolutely agree with this. I really hated the 1945 backdrop of “wow, what a great time to be heterosexual” not like the present where everyone is gay and being straight is being oppressed.
And the trouble is, we’ve seen it time and time again that the Union in general and Captain Mercer in particular is in no way more developed.
I do not believe it is about LGBTQ stories or parallels to our current issues. He just uses situations and topics we are aware of to help his narrative. I actually think he is trying to disturb the (ST) Utopia of a Union (federation) a bit and not in a way ST has done so far.
“Hey. Hey, viewer. Did- did you get how whatever happens to Moclans is, like, a…metaphor for stuff that happens to people on Earth today? Did ya? Did ya? Did ya get that? Huh?”Seth Macfarlane nudges you in the ribs with his elbow. “Eh? Eh? C’mon – did ya? Did ya?”Seth nudges you harder in the ribs. “Eh? Eh? It was pretty subtle, I’ll admit! Y’know, like, I spent a lot of time grappling with this! ‘Will they get it, won’t they get it?’ – I tell ya, these are the sorts of thing you have to deal with when you’re a big-time sci-fi writer!”I’m beginning to think there’s a reason Seth doesn’t change his voice when he voices Brian for Family Guy.
You sound like someone familiar with restraining orders.
It’s funny that in almost every way MacFarlane tries to do these social commentary stories, whether thet’re successful or woefully heavy-handed… they all seem to fit perfectly in with the Star Trek ethos, which handled a lot of these same issues sometimes with the subtlety of a sledgehammer. In both good ways and bad ways, this show is a real successor to Trek, much moreso than Discovery.
Couldn’t agree more about the use of the Moclans to drive the narrative. While the episode by itself was fine, I think they are leaning on the Moclans way to much and it is starting to get tiring. They are supposed to be exploring the universe. We should be seeing our “Star Trek alien of the week”.
I’m glad the reviewer mentioned Bruce Willis, because I could have sworn that was his voice when I heard it. I came to the A.V. Club forum to verify.
This show seems to have created an ambivalence with its audience, but I’m simply enjoying it, as it is. I think this season has been just as strong, overall, as last season…but the humor feels a bit more natural. I actually like the fact that Klyden is such a complex character that you can empathize with him on some points and be horrified on others (that’s pretty real to me). I also liked the fact that Talla comes from a military family, as opposed to the tension within Alara’s family with her being the only one. I giggled at the fact that Isaac was going around asking for sexual position advice from the crew, and Locar’s response to the cupcake offering (and after the test concluded). I definitely laughed when Ed and Kelly are both saying, “We agreed no torpedoes, right?” “Yeah, I was there when we said that!”
“Strong” is a… strong word. 😉
Haven’t watched it yet but another damn romance story? I don’t remember the first season being “Space Love Boat”, if the second season continues with it I’m definitely dropping it.
My thoughts exactly. Haven’t watched it yet, but from what I’ve seen of S2 so far, it isn’t inspiring any confidence at all – and the season is already half over! It’s somehow managed to be a step down in quality from the first season, which was already spotty in places.
Maybe MacFarlance should focus on some action/adventure stories and stop trying to tell so many messages? Because while Message Trek is fine, even Star Trek understood that Message Trek every week gets old if you don’t mix it up.
The preview of next week’s episode makes it seem as if the action will be returning. I’m thinking they’ve only got so much money to spend on action scenes and location shoots, so it has to be doled out judiciously, meaning we get more slower, ship-based episodes as a result.
I did enjoy the idea that they would test a ship’s deflector shields by letting another ship fire on them. That was a fun scene.
Also good was Gordon’s implication that he could easily evade the Moclan ship and had to make it easier for the Orville to actually get hit. And when they got hit with the torpedo the resulting “Hey, that was a torpedo, I thought we agreed no torpedos” meant that it was about to become a real attack.
What a crazy way to make sure an untested system works. Take a valuable ship with a crew of 300 and try to blow it to bits in space. The crews chosen for these tests must be REALLY happy.
The preview of next week’s episode makes it seem as if the action will be returning.
Never trust a teaser, lol.
meaning we get more slower, ship-based episodes as a result.
Ship-based episodes are fine, when they’re well-written. But this episode has already been done so many times by The Orville. Another Moclan episode and another romance episode.
Maybe MacFarlance should focus on some action/adventure stories and stop
trying to tell so many messages? Because while Message Trek is fine,
even Star Trek understood that Message Trek every week gets old if you
don’t mix it up.
And MacFarlane’s making the same mistake most Star Trek series has made: no serialized stories. TNG & Voyager had a few two-parters, and DS9 had the Dominion war, but the serialized story is what I love so much about Discovery. I got tired of monster-of-the-week episodes a long, long time ago. They have x-many episodes to tell a story, but they decided to tell x-many stories instead. Stupid.
“and DS9 had the Dominion war, but the serialized story is what I love so much about Discovery”
After seasons 1 and 2, DS9 was a serialized show for every episode. If you skipped a few episodes and came back, you were lost. But The Orville is not like that. While there is some serialization, it’s in the background – you could easily skip a few episodes, watch a new episode, and not be lost.
After seasons 1 and 2, DS9 was a serialized show for every episode.
I barely got through season 1. Absolutely no interest to watch more DS9. People tell me that it gets good around season 5 but I don’t care. If it takes 5 seasons to get good, then that’s a bad show.
You really missed out. DS9 is not bad in season 1 (not as bad as TNG was), gets really good about mid-season 2, and really takes off at the start of season 3 and never looks back. If you didn’t watch the entire series just because you couldn’t get through season 1, I guess more great TV for the rest of us then.
Based on your logic, you would have never watched beyond season 1 of TOS or TNG, or most non-Star Trek series. A series that is great out of the gate and doesn’t take 1-2 seasons to improve and find its legs is not the norm.
DS9 is not bad in season 1
I thought it was incredibly boring in season 1. I’ll probably end up watching the rest of it when I’m bored, but it’s not a priority for me.
gets really good about mid-season 2, and really takes off at the start of season 3 and never looks back.
Yeah, that’s a bad show.
Based on your logic, you would have never watched beyond season 1 of TOS
I can’t watch TOS. It just looks so bad.
or TNG
I never said TNG was a good show. Here’s the thing: I like the concept of Star Trek far more than I enjoy the execution. TNG was a weak show, with a handful of really great episodes and a lot of bad ones. Same with Voyager. The big thing that was missing in Star Trek was serialized stories. You say DS9 did those, fine, I believe you. But I had to sit through the shitty DS9 first and it turned me right off. Do I have problems with Discovery? Yes, mainly the Klingons. Drastically different look & the language sounds completely different. But do I enjoy Discovery more than previous Star Trek shows? Yes and by a wide margin.
A series that is great out of the gate and doesn’t take 1-2 seasons to improve and find its legs is not the norm.
Most shows don’t start great, that’s true. But the great ones do almost always start strong. TNG didn’t start strong. DS9 didn’t start strong. Voyager had a great opening two-parter but then they didn’t really know what to do after that, story-wise.
Season 1 is only half a season – it premiered in January. So it’s not as bad as TNG’s first season, which was a full season. It does a lot of setup of the characters, the environment, and the situations. If you skipped season 1 but watched the rest of the series you would be missing out on a lot of the setup required to enjoy the rest of the series.
And there are some good episodes in season 1. There are no truly terrible episodes (well, Move Along Home is kind of embarrassing). And Dramatis Personae is a great “the entire cast gets mind controlled and fights each other” episode.A show improving after the first couple of seasons and finally getting to go fully serialized is not “a bad show”. I think you need to watch more TV.
“I can’t watch TOS. It just looks so bad.” This comment alone makes me wonder about whether your opinion can be taken seriously.“TNG was a weak show” Oh man, thanks for making me laugh, I needed that.Again, most great shows don’t start strong. For example, Parks and Rec is considered a classic comedy, and yet its first season is pretty awful. It took until the second season for them to figure out how to make the show great.
Season 1 is only half a season – it premiered in January. So it’s not as bad as TNG’s first season, which was a full season.
They were both weak, but season 1 of DS9 was worse: It was boring.
A show improving after the first couple of seasons and finally getting
to go fully serialized is not “a bad show”. I think you need to watch
more TV.
I watch an absolute shit-ton of tv, and yes, many shows improve after their first season. But good shows start strong & get better.
“I can’t watch TOS. It just looks so bad.” This comment alone makes me wonder about whether your opinion can be taken seriously.
What the fuck are you talking about? TOS is not known for it’s stunning visuals. The sets look bad. And I get it. It’s an old show. I’ve got nothing against the show itself. I just can’t watch it. The visuals take me out of it too much.
“TNG was a weak show”
There’s over 140 episodes of TNG but there’s only 25 or so really good episodes. It had a strong premise and Patrick Stewart, which went a long way.
Anyone that says season 1 of DS9 is boring, knowing that season 1 contains Duet, doesn’t know what they’re talking about.“I watch an absolute shit-ton of tv, and yes, many shows improve after their first season. But good shows start strong & get better.”
And other good shows start slow and get much better. If you don’t know this I don’t think you watch as much TV as you claim.You do realize that TOS was made in the 60s, right? They did not have access to modern day special effects. Based on your comments, I guess you don’t watch any TV or movies that are more than a few years old because of the poor special effects and non-modern production values. You must have hated To Kill A Mockingbird because it was in black and white and didn’t have great effects.
“there’s only 25 or so really good episodes.” Ok, now I know you’re just a troll. Anyone that says this about TNG either never watched the show or doesn’t know what they’re talking about.
Look, it wouldn’t have bothered me if I could tell they were just trying to keep the costs down, to save budget for the big action pieces……but then we got that full-on 1940s period piece. Which wasn’t cheap. Look, we can get this relationship drama on a million other shows. What’s the point of setting in space, in the future? Especially when Seth’s so pointedly making all the dramas (yes, even the interspecies) just like the ones you experience every day, now, on Earth! Isn’t that clever?Remember when the let Isaac hang out on a planet for 11,000 years so he could raise a civilisation to space faring status? That was interesting. “Oh, no, turns out this guy I was dating wasn’t really the guy for me” is not.
I mean, it is essentially a no name star trek…
It is for sure, but I don’t remember TNG having mostly romance episodes for a whole season.
minus transporters or a Prime Directive, which I think adds a nice touch.
Seth wanted to make a boring sitcom but we ended up with a boring sitcom with cheap sci-fi production design.
My thoughts exactly when I started watching this episode. But to my surprise I enjoyed another good episode of The Orville. It was less about romance but more about the thought “What if there would be a society where heterosexuality is a sin?” what has made me thinking.
Yeah, I saw this and thought “Aw, crap.” Another freaking Moclan ep. I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again: they work best in small doses.And, yeah, we get it: you’re a big fan of 80s sit-coms, Seth, but dumping all over them with modern sensibilities.
My thought too (as I mentioned in another post) though I doubt I’ll stop watching. This is borderline soap opera.
Though I must say I watched the episode tonight and liked it quite a bit. Plus Dalla grew on me a lot in this.
Good to know that cookie bouquets still exsit in thre future.
Moclan society is a couple bong hits beyond a legitimate sci-fi idea.
Talla leads Locar to Kelly’s small town USA simulationThe small town of New York City.
Great use of irony to have the couple escaping taboo in their present to a place and time where homosexuality or even interracial relationships, let alone interspecies, would have been taboo.
While the show obviously draws a lot directly from The Next Generation (to the extent that I often think of characters as “Not-Data” and “Not-Worf”, etc, when I forget what their names are), it occurs to me that the Ed/Kelly stuff is pretty similar to Peter David’s Star Trek: New Frontier series, where the captain and the commanding officer are exes who broke up for professional reasons. Also, the characters’ awareness of how weird their ship is feels a lot like that series, where they have a lot of encounters with aliens and phenomena borrowed from the original series, but with a lot more “holy cow, I thought Kirk was bored and made that stuff up” to it.
I think the post-war neighborhood Kelly created was nod to “City on the Edge of Forever” and nothing more.
I think it was “What’s the cheapest backlot set we can rent?”
It looked like they sprung for a LOT of vintage cars though.
Maybe Seth knows Jay Leno too.
They just rent them for the day. There are warehouses full of various cars in the Burbank/Universal City area specifically for vehicles to use in movies and TV.
I was speculating whether it was the Universal backlot or Warner’s.
I don’t know about “Cheap” but see my previous comment.
it’s also New York street on the Fox Lot which is just outside the stages for Orville’s Docking bay set. So, logistically convenient.
Bortus’ anger at Talla was some damned fine acting in a very brief moment. I know they’ve touched on his regret before, but the anguish behind that anger was palpable.
Talla’s anger at Klyden was also great in a very chilling way. All the best acting in this episode was through anger, damn it.I can’t see Klyden making it to the series finale living on the ship.
How much you wanna bet that when he leaves we find out that Moclan custody law is actually quite retrograde! Why I’d even guess that the captain will think it totally shouldn’t be
Definitely sounded like Bruce Willis to me.
Bortus and Klyden are just the worst couple, aren’t they? Bortus is cold and insensitive and Klyden is an awful, passive-aggressive nag. Have they ever been happy? The sad part is they remind me of several real-life married couples I’ve actually known.
Bortus should have kept the mustache and gotten rid of Klyden.
The mustache definitely needed to stay.
How is Talla — the chief security officer — under the impression that the simulator is private? Seems like the kind of thing you’d want to be aware of if you’re in charge of security.
The post-war setting in the simulator makes some roundabout sense if you read-up on the Lavender Scare.
I watch all my Fox on Hulu via Roku, so I can’t comment until 18 hours or so goes by. It’s weird that I agree with just about every single post on here. There’s things to both like & dislike about this episode. When good and bad even out, the grade should equal “C” … But I might go with a cautious “B-”I think it’s time to let the “Halston Sage Breakup is symbolic-in-every-screenplay complaint” die. C’mon, let’s move on.But I’m also just about ready to touch the 3rd Rail of Trek-type shows and wonder aloud why is it always black male actors relegated to tons of latex prosthetic that get to be the lab-rats for working through these alien cultures with retrograde societal attitudes? Moclan burnout is setting in, maybe. But maybe not. This show does have good core group of black actors with Penny being a standout-third lead. And the show, as conceived, is duty bound to follow these cultural whoopsies down the rabbit hole until … what? The Moclans are turning into a rather large through-line here. Bigger than Krill for sure. Where Star Trek has a long and rocky history of cementing relationships with the Klingons, Orville seems to be inching toward a collapse of relations with the Moclans. I have to admit, even with Moclan Burnout setting in, if the show doubled down and this episode was the spark of some really big planetary troubles – where a couple seasons from now this is all going to be known as “The Moclan Arc” … then I do kind of find that interesting. I’ll leave the rest of the Third Rail for later – after some of this shakes out.
This was definitely the same sort of line of thought I was having. I found myself wondering if by the end of the season there’d be a Union/Moclan war. Perhaps not that extreme, but almost certainly a breakdown in diplomatic ties.
Honestly, Union citizens in general and the Orviller crew in particular repeatedly pulls similar shit that they look down on the Moclans for doing. If there’s a breakdown, it will most likely be due to Union hypocrisy.
I agree, and of course there are options short of war for ending the relationship (although we know the traditional Moclan way of finalizing a divorce). I’d like to get Klyden off the ship as soon as possible, and a breakdown of Moclan relations within the Union would be a good way to do it. The Moclans call all their people serving on Union ships home, Klyden goes (with or without Tova; most likely with, but I could see it going the other way), but Bortus chooses to stay.We don’t know enough about the Union’s structure to say, but if the Moclans wanted to secede, would the Union just let them? (They may be HAPPY about it, officially or otherwise.)
I think someone from the show would push back and say the Krill are all white people under prosthetic – with religious persecution problems … balancing out the Moclans with their sexual persecution issues. That said, due to these casting decisions, the Moclans have a very natural and rich baritone vocal range and it would be cool to hear them singing in, say, a barbershop quartet.
Better yet, before Seth gets all excited and writes the Moclans a set-piece where they sing “Lida Rose” from The Music Man, a better fit would be something spooky akin to Old Shaker Music and/or Asian Monk chanting.
But I’m also just about ready to touch the 3rd Rail of Trek-type shows and wonder aloud why is it always black male actors relegated to tons of latex prosthetic that get to be the lab-rats for working through these alien cultures with retrograde societal attitudes? Moclan burnout is setting in, maybe. But maybe not.Both this and Star Trek: Discovery are handling race weirdly…
This was another episode that dealt with Moclans. While I want to say “enough already with the Moclans!”, I am pleased that Ed raised the question of whether the Union should really be in an alliance with a people who have such different values. Tolerance is a fine ideal; but, as Kelly said in an earlier episode, there has to be a limit. At some point the virtue of tolerance becomes the vice of enabling evil.The episode also gave Talla a big part, which was nice to see. She is now fully established in my eyes.The only flaw I can see is Ed’s reaction to Talla’s outburst during the meeting with the Moclan captain. While Ed obviously shares Talla’s feelings about the backward Moclan ways, and while he did order her out of the meeting after she insulted the captain, he probably should have been a bit tougher on her in his office. He has to tell her, in a stern way that is uncomfortable for him, that she can’t break decorum like that. Or else Kelly needs to tell her that. Also, Ed gave in too quickly when Talla asked to conduct the investigation, just as he merely suggested that Bortus not be in on the interrogation (such as it was) of Klyden, rather than insisting on it. I certainly don’t want Captain Mercer to be an authoritarian, and it’s good that he runs a loose ship. But those examples suggest that it’s a little bit too loose at times.
Anyway, the most important things of this episode, namely, the characterisations and the interactions in the dialogue, were excellent. The Orville is so beautifully done; and watching it is a true pleasure.
Talla really should have mentioned Locar’s advances to Ed in private. Spilling his secret in front of two other Moclans was indiscrete, at best.
Yes, that’s right. Talla is experienced enough to know better.I love this show; but the writing needs to be more attentive to these things.
Yeah, I actually really didn’t think Talla’s outbursts endeared her to me at all, given she’s now been disrespectful (and outright disobedient) to all three of her superior officers on-board the ship. That seems like… the fastest way to get booted off a ship of the line (regardless of size or mission), as ship discipline needs to be there when you’re away from “shore” so long…I agreed with all of her sentiments, but especially with Bortus, she crossed like several lines…
Many people from the Union appear to have a personal sense of smug superiority over cultures they consider inferior. We’ve seen that demonstrated over and over again. However, its been demonstrated that it is, in many cases we have seen, rather self serving and hypocritical.
All things considered I don’t think Ed or the Union are in a moral position to judge the Moclans considering what we’ve seen of the Union in general and Ed in particular.
Ed’s weaknesses — as well as those of the Union overall — are in the areas of competence and execution, not in the area of morality.
But what is evil? what makes our morals the right ones? because we believe so? Moclans believe so as well.
This is why it comes down to a compatibility of values. If the Moclans’ standards and cultural practices are repugnant to the Union, then an alliance is not workable. Both Kelly and Ed have touched upon this realisation; and I hope to see some follow-up on it.Stanley Fish has identified two types of multiculturalism: weak multiculturalism and strong multiculturalism. Weak multiculturalism consists of a general stance in favour of cultural diversity. But, because it is ideologically based in a respect for the equality, dignity, and diversity of individuals, it does not tolerate practices that offend those core values.Strong multiculturalism recognises that some cultural differences are irreconcilable, but holds that society must put up with them, with no limitations.However, Fish says that both multiculturalisms are really types of uniculturalism. Weak multiculturalism amounts to the promotion of liberal values over other value systems; and strong multiculturalism equates ultimately to the elevation of the contrary value systems of other cultures over that of one’s own culture.The Planetary Union should be practicing a weak multiculturalism, which means that its tolerance should have the limits to which Kelly referred, and that it should ultimately be unafraid to be partisans for a certain set of values.
I don`t want to come off as overly confrontational, but what is your opinion of clitorectomies? Abhorrent to me, abhorrent to modern Western sensibilities (the Victorians might have had a different take), but in some cultures it’s commonplace. We can pass laws making it illegal here, but how big of a stink can/should we make if they persist in doing it there?(And of course the same questions have been raised concerning MALE circumcision, although that’s mandated by at least two major religions in the USA.)
I am not sure this is a good analogy cause we live in the same planet, we have all evolved pretty much together with civilizations that have interacted with one another. And with time we had progress with human rights. Let’s say for example that most of humans in Earth have won the right to believe (or not) in any religion they want, without being afraid they gonna die at the stake.
Now, if a girl does not wish to have a clitorectomy and asks for our help we can provide her asylum. But for example, by invading a country to stop clitorectomy you stop their evolution by imposing to them your lifestyle and believes like an entitled or ignorant bully. You cannot force progress if a society is not ready.
Of course this is a very complicated topic, cause the countries we consider “primitives” are victims of our imperialistic/colonial tactics and vast exploitation that has stalled their evolution, or some are just our convenient allies. Not to mention how hypocritical is to point the finger to other countries when we have plenty of human rights unresolved issues ourselves*.So if you believe this is an issue of human rights you can try and keep women in these areas informed about their choices and provide them with asylum/shelter.But what about different alien races?
What if we discover life in a planet with an advanced civilization that allows cannibalizing of the weak? or believes in the use of slaves? or believes in the stars and discriminate people in good and bad signs by imprisoning the later for life? or don’t believe in God and religions? etc etc etc.
Are we gonna invade this planet to adjust it to our values?
* I am Greek living in Greece but I think in modern Western Societies we pretty much face the same problems. Well, our police does not kill colored ppl (or any people) as much, but still we have our issues here as well.
It may not be a perfect analogy but it’s the only analogy available (or something like it). Yes, there are humans who consider eating meat immoral, yet few of them consider it immoral for lions to kill and eat a zebra, but most traditions leave moral choice within the realm solely of human beings. There are ants that make slaves of other ants; I’ve yet to hear of Amnesty International calling for an end to ant-on-ant slavery as a moral imperative.There are cultures on Earth that differ from mine, and some embrace practices I would consider immoral (such as ritual female genital mutilation). It seems my choices are limited to either beleiving that said culture engages in immoral practices (in an absolute sense) or else considering them, like the lion, incabable of moral choice (rest assured, I’m sure that they would face the same dilemma in considering some of MY moral choices). Why would that differ with an alien race? There are some cultural differences that may be embraced, there are some that are more “problematic,” and there are some differences that may prove totally irreconcilable. If the Union professes any sort of idea of a Sentient Beings Bill of Rights, perhaps the Moclans want no part of it (or at least object to CERTAIN parts of it), but if too many exceptions are allowed then as a “standard” it has no meaning.
It is probably my english, but what is your point exactly?
I kind of lost you there, especially with the ants 😀
I used the world “evolution” too many times in my reply cause it is simply the key word here.
We used to have slaves and at the time we didn’t think there was anything immoral about it. We evolved through a long and painful progress and we still have a lot of issues.
You believe we have moral superiority cause we know cliterectomy is violating human rights. But isn’t our western 1st world still violating human rights in so many ways?
What makes us to tell or impose to an African country (that we have destroyed in many ways) what it is moral or not? I remind you West didn’t interfere when genocides were happening cause there was no economic interest in the areas. How moral is that? Did you or me loose any sleep over the 1million people slaughtered in Rwanda? (well I did for a day or so, but that was it really). You think people in Rwanda are some kind of animals incapable of having values?
It is not a black and white situation.
We cannot see a different planet/race just by using our evolution/morality filters, also because we didn’t “grew up” in the same “house” and under the same conditions.In our case, I mean the show, it is an interesting ethical question: what do you do when you have contact/dealings with an Alien race that has so many common things with you, but at the same time a culture that is not quite compatible with your values?
I get the feeling that the Union is grateful to be in an alliance with the Moclans because the union would get stomped by them if they were not.
Ah, very good. The writers may well introduce that angle.
i don’t know… Talla was presented as rough around the edges, punch the Captain in the face type. so her being less than delicate in the meeting fits
That is a good observstion. Talla’s conduct on the meeting was perhaps in character for her.But this still does not explain Ed’s failure to make clear to her in private that that conduct was unacceptable. Ed needed to go into school principal mode and scold Talla, and elicit from her a sincere apology (along the lines of this apology she gave to Bortus).
“Ed gave in too quickly when Talla asked to conduct the investigation”Absolutely this. She should have been required to recuse herself immediately. As the second to last person to see Locar she’s at least person of interest in the investigation. Once she discloses that he showed up in her quarters uninvited, she then become a suspect.
its not as bad as letting Worf investigate Keylar’s death. it fits what we’ve seen before
This episode mirrored some of the more boring aspects of Star Trek. I don’t know about everyone else here, but I found most Klingon-centric episodes terribly tedious. Moclans have been fun Klingon parodies, but their overuse is becoming draining. Let’s just hope they don’t give Captain Mercer a 7 of 9 like mentee and make every 4 episode out of 10 about his lessons in humanity.
The suck on this episode was overpowering
Bashing hetero-normative is now the new meta. As if supporting traditional marriage is the same thing as jailing someone and disgracing their entire family. I’m getting really sick of this extremist desire to destroy everything traditional or even scientific because of “feels”. We get hit over the head with it daily by the news media and now in our valued prime time television shows.
I’ve had a problem with the Moclans from the beginning. To me the entire premise makes no sense. I really don’t understand what they mean when they say the Moclans are all male. If every Moclan is the same physical gender and it takes two to make an egg then presumably there needs to be a transfer of genetic material from one to the other and either one can lay the egg. So every Moclan has both male and female equipment of some kind. If a Moclan is “female” then presumably the male equipment isn’t working and, yes, for a Moclan that would be a defect, one that the show suggests is easily corrected. What the Union is doing is projecting irrelevant human standards on a race that isn’t human. Seth is playing to the stereotype by having the Moclans act like human males and putting the “female” in a dress, but that is all window dressing. As for this most recent episode, it’s understandable that the Moclans would find someone who is “perversely” attracted to a birth defect to be disturbing, but imprisonment or execution is a pretty extreme reaction. Of course, there are cultures on Earth right now that react in a similar manner to what they perceive as perversion. I expect Seth is going to use this as a metaphor for current conflicts between Western and some Middle Eastern cultures. How do you reconcile tolerance for other cultures with intolerance for prejudice and discrimination whenever it is encountered?
I suspect that the Moclan’s were once a more normal species, but decided that the violence cause by natural evolution where it came to reproduction had to end, and chose to eliminate women from the gene pool as much as possible, and strictly regiment their society to reduce violence and chaos to a minimum so they could advance relatively peacefully. Mercer and crew, however, are trying to only think of them in human terms, which is a mistake on their part, but one which they make again and again without ever learning a thing .
My biggest issue with this episode is that they didn’t really establish the relationship between Talla and Locar to the degree required for the ending to earn the emotional punch it was going for.
It was “Hi I like you. I don’t know if I like you. OK, I do. Let’s dance on the holodeck. Oops, you’re dead.”Just a little more effort put into setting up the romance would have maid the pay off land better.
I agree. Those tears of the end were totally unearned by hte script.
I thought the same thing when Ed and Kelly were making such a big deal about the “relationship.” They were mad at Talla for not telling them about it, when it had all pretty much happened in the span of 20 minutes. Heck, they had kissed for the first time just 10 seconds before Kelly called Talla away. I liked the episode but that bothered me. It would have made more sense for them to have been angry at her for revealing the truth in front of other Moclans (which I would have agreed with).I think, though, that the tears weren’t necessarily unearned. While I don’t think Talla was IN LOVE with Locar (although with this show you never know, Cassius was saying it after like a month with Kelly), she was understandably affected by what happened, and that’s where the tears came from. I think it was a combination of being intrigued by/liking him, the emotional rollercoaster of thinking he had been murdered, and just being upset that a good person was having his life ruined.
I know Seth has said he wants this to be ‘optimistic’ sci-fi, but man, I sure felt bummed out at this ending. One Moclan shamed for the rest of his life, Bortus and Klyden visibly upset at each other, Kelly’s single now, Talla in tears. I don’t think the music in the final scene matched the mood at all, either.I REALLY hope Ed and Kelly don’t get back together. Their dynamic is so much better as friends. PLEASE don’t write them back as a couple again.
I have a feeling this is building up to an undoing of Topa’s surgery and all out war with the Moclans as a season finale/3rd season premiere.
Why? The Union is pretty much guilty of many of the things the Moclan’s do in their own way.
Why? Because it seems like each Moclan story is building to a rift between the Union and the Moclans, with Bortus trying to find his place, knowing one day he’ll have to make a choice, and slowly coming to realize that he’s going to side against his people.
Did anyone else notice that now The Orville is borrowing from Star Trek:TOS (“Court Martial”) for plot lines? Just me. Okay, never mind.
The Orville is an exceptionally STUPID show, a very Dull and Amateur copy of the original ST. Every episode is dummer than the previous. I already hear the Grim Reaper of Cancellation calling and none to soon The only problem is where will Seth McFartland find more runway models to schtoop??
For the most part I would agree. However, the last two eps are primarily based on some pretty bad material that was actually realized better, IMHO, than the original TNG eps they are redoing.
I can’t stomach the orville anymore. It may as well be teens in space. Every episode is relationship drama.For God’s sake, these are evolved, woke people. They should know by now that love is like religion and celebrity. A mind fuck to lobotomize the peasants.News flashGrown ups DO outgrow the post adoescent need for love.When you’re an adult, a companion is sufficient. Love like society teaches us to obsess over DOES NOT EXIST. It’s just two people projecting their needs and preconceptions onto each other.Love does happen… It is real but it’s not all that. That’s why it self destructs. People always try to make it into something it’s not.Only insecure people need love. It’s the unconscious mind trying to fulfill an internal void externally. Loneliness is a manipulation. Whole people do not experience loneliness. They can be alone for 20 years and never experience loneliness because loneliness is the mind trying to bury your insecurities in the affection of another.I digressI was rooting for this show but every episode this season lefte screaming at the television. Adults behaving like high school students. Like seth macfarland is in on a plot to brainwash people into thinking their teenage consciousness is all there is. That’s why Julia roberts said she was too old for rom com.When you’re that old you can’t delude yourself into trying to fit the square peg in the circle hole anymore.You don’t need to. You’re fine alone.I really tried but I just cannot stomach all this relationship drama.Eds ex being on the show was a HUGE mistake.No one is rooting for them. No one cares. They got divorced for a reason. Move on.Trying to play up pureflix sentiments to appease middle America has destroyed the show.I have no interest in watching two 45 year old adults repair their lost love in space. Because she couldn’t resist Rob Lowe’s magic penis Please.Just once can you NOT ruin shows with relationships?Tom Paris and BelannaRiker and TroisRodney and KellerCarter and O’NeillPete and MykaCreighton and aeryn sunEvery single one of these destroyed the show Ad I WL not add Picard and crusher because he never loved her. He just knew that like all women, she needed to believe all men secretly yearn for her so he threw her a bone every now and then and kept her at arm’s length so he could avoid the drama she’d cause.I don’t think I can watch anymore.Is too bad. You had a real shot but between the loss of their best character and the soap opera love they’re jamming down our throats, this isn’t a show for an intelligent audience. It’s sci-fi more mainstream America, not scifi for sci-fi fans.I really tried.I just can’t anymore.
There was a reason for the post war scenes. According to the newsboy, the simulation is depicting an America the day after VJ day. At the end of the episode Ed’s line about how the values of Moclus and the Union are fundamentally different at their cores will make a sustainable alliance impossible. Let us also not forget in the first few scenes, a Moclan ship a was shooting at the Orville. Lastly, Locar is brought to trial but we don’t see the punishment. All this is foreshadowing an impending conflict between the two. In this conflict, Locar will most likely make a reappearance and tip the scales in the Union’s favor. Given how late we are in the season, it could be a two-parter, season 2 finale and season 3 opener. But this is all speculation.
Actually, I’ve been finding the Moclan are being slowly revealed as I guess what they are, which actually is a lot more interesting than what people are seeing on the most shallow levels for the most part. And I can appreciate them far more as alien beings more akin biologically to cats or deer that made a radical choice to overcome their evolutionary biology than they are to analogues of human bigots and LGBTQ characters in safe alien skins that middle america will allow itself to .despise or feel comfortable with.
This show is getting dull for me. I find the Moclans boring and pretty much every relationship is unhealthy. The Orville was a fun homage to 90s tv Trek when it started but it’s getting repetitive and uninspired IMO.
I know this is xenophobic, but I hate Moclans. Between the urinating, porn addictions, stabbings, infant mutilation, heterophobia, and framing of people for murder, there is nothing redeeming about this race. One more Bortus episode and I’m out. Last season was so promising. I’m really disappointed.
At least you recognize they aren’t human, which is something the show runners seem to have difficulty figuring out.
I guess the postwar America backdrop was supposed to evoke film noir f0r the upcoming whodunit? Except it didn’t work, and it took 0.5 seconds after it happened for the viewer to solve the mystery. Then we had to sit around and wait for the show to catch up to where we were. Not good.
Also, the Union is super-evolved on sexuality, but seems to be in an evolutionary stall when it comes to “no means no,” and what constitutes harassment. I’m getting mixed messages.
re: Bruce Willis… pictures or it didn’t happen.
You know what a gifted impressionist Seth is. I’m sure he could call up a fellow impersonator if he wanted to.the voice was almost catoonishly Willis. He hasn’t shown that much enthusiasm in his live action work since Hudson Hawk
Yeah this was not a good episode at all. They even went to far as to list things that happened in better episodes for god’s sake.If next week isn’t any better it’s definitely getting dropped, I don’t have time to waste watching a Space Love Boat that doesn’t even have goddamn Herve Vilchez.
First of all, it’s HERVE’ VILLECHAIZE. Second thing, goodbye and good riddance.
Yeah, when Ed said they were approaching Moclas, I turned to my husband and said, “Why? I thought they were going to uncharted space. Why Moclas again?” Please give us something new.
I honestly can’t tell you how much I hate a side-pony.
“I don’t begrudge Seth MacFarlane’s obsession with post-war Americana, but it proved to be a distraction here… using a 20th century neighborhood as a backdrop for a breakup and then an awkward courtship and fake murder never resonated.”The post-war NYC simulator program was the perfect backdrop for the show, not a distraction. It was a genius move on the writers part for including it in the episode. Symbolically, the relationship between the 1945 Japanese surrender backdrop of the simulator program and the various plot themes of the episode resonates loud and clear (albeit in a very sublime and subtle manner) if you really think about it.Take the breakup between Kelly and Cassius, for example. They’re chilling out at a sidewalk cafe, discussing what seems like minor relationship issues, when >BAM!< Kelly drops THE BOMB - an atomic bomb that forever ends any and all hostilities that the future may hold for the two sides. Kelly is the Enola Gay to Cassius’ Hiroshima. The war is over, and so is their relationship. “This is the first episode where the crew struggles to come to terms with a culture so distinct from Union values and that accounting is a more interesting dimension of a species usually played for laughs.”This is another reason why the 1945 Japanese surrender simulator backdrop was the perfect symbolic gesture for the episode. The war between Japan and the United States was one between two cultures with vast, gaping differences, just like the Union and Moclans. The Japanese terms “kamikaze” and “banzai” enter the English language for the first time. The Japanese gave the war the human torpedo and a fanatical warrior mentality with soldiers who were found deep in the jungles of the Philippines still fighting the war in the 1970's, some 30 years after the war had ended. To the Americans, the Japanese were a culture unlike any they had ever encountered up to that time. Like the Union to the Moclans, the Japanese culture was misunderstood and reviled by many Americans. And, the deep seeded, xenophobic resentment of the Japanese by some Americans lingered well into the 1970's, just like Ed’s snide, off-the-cuff remark to Kelly, “I wonder how long we’re going to put up with them?”That genius inclusion of subtle and sublime World War II symbolism in the episode is another reason why I love this show, and why I hope it has a long run. Kudo’s to Seth MacFarlane and the script writers.I really liked this episode because it was more dramatic than comic. It was nice to see a serious side to the show; the first of its kind. However, the plot resolution of the murder investigation was weak and rushed. But, hey, you can only do so much in an hour show. Which brings me to the next point: this should have been a two part episode. It would have been nice to see Klyden sweat while on the brink of a ruined career, a possible divorce, and judicial punishment before being absolved of an accused crime.Also, Seth, don’t get too comfortable in a serious groove for the show - I miss the lighthearted vibe. I also miss all the dick jokes, keep’em coming (get it, “coming”). Yeah, I went there.
Man I really love Talla