Adrien Brody makes the Roys work for him on Succession
How much runway does Kendall "Wokestar Royco" really have left?
TV Reviews Succession
If I were as filthy-wealthy as Logan Roy, a man for whom helicopters are practically the only means of transportation and whose penthouse is full of rooms into which he has undoubtedly never stepped, I simply would not walk anywhere. I’m sorry, but what is the point? Let me go full Baron Vladimir Harkonnen, and just float around places. Let me have a golf cart that is summonable at all times, so my feet never touch dirt or sand or gravel. I’m old! I’m not 100% healthy! I do not need to go on hikes on private islands to impress investors who are already suspicious of my longevity!
But the Logan Roy we see this third season is not the Logan Roy of the second season. This is not Logan with Kendall back in pocket, doing his bidding. This is not Logan with a secure grip on all his children, or flirting gleefully with Rhea, or scheming about taking over PGM. This is Logan legitimately hurt by Kendall’s betrayal—not emotionally, I don’t think. Does Logan have emotions when it comes to his children this season? It doesn’t seem like it! He really is mocking and subverting and maneuvering them like game pieces for his amusement. But hurt professionally by Kendall’s actions? Sure. The FBI just raided! He had to elevate Gerri to a reasonable level of power! Shiv has not been particularly impressive as Logan’s “hand-picked” successor, Roman isn’t ready, and Connor, bless his heart, is Connor.
So this is a weakened Logan. An 80-year-old man who has survived a stroke, but who is not yet what he once was—and might never be. Kendall isn’t wrong that he’s been looser with his language lately, more openly homophobic and racist, and less willing to temper his opinions. He’s losing sway with the President. He might be losing control of public opinion. Stewy/Sandy/Sandi (SSS) are nipping at his heels. And so I wonder what Logan really thought he was going to prove by pushing forward on those endless island hikes.
Adrien Brody’s Josh Aaronson is a man playing all sides and considering all angles, but from any vantage point, neither Logan nor Kendall came out of that island trip looking particularly good. “Just the tip, but for like killing Dad?” Roman accuses Kendall, and certainly Logan’s former No. 1 Boy is sustaining the most damage against his father. But Logan’s health and his age exist outside of Kendall’s influence, and at some point, the Roys need to decide between protecting their father or protecting the company. I’m not sure a scenario exists in which they can do both.
“Lion In The Meadow” begins some time after the FBI raid, and I’m sorry to say that Ziwe does not return. Kendall’s obsession with watching his own Ls on Sophie Iwobi’s show is over. He’s now lapping up PGM news coverage on further tensions at Waystar Royco, and his whole “I’m a principled good guy and the rest of the Roys are evil” idea of himself is still firmly in place—so much so that when the Waystar Royco executive suite calls him for help, he practically faceplants getting up on his high horse.
“Little Lord Fuckleroy” doesn’t want to get railroaded into meeting with Josh, who holds 4% stock and whose decision to back the Roys or to back SSS would have a significant impact on the shareholders’ vote. But Kendall also wants the company to be controlled by the Roys rather than SSS because losing family control could mean the shareholders throw all the Roys out on their asses, and if there’s anything these people love more than fighting with each other, it’s lording power over others.
So Kendall agrees to go after Logan’s yelled “Come! Behave appropriately!”, and ends up stepping into Logan’s series of power moves. Logan getting on the helicopter meant for Kendall, Logan forcing Kendall to wait for his arrival. He doesn’t anticipate Kendall bailing on that whole song and dance and going ahead without him. But Kendall doesn’t quite grasp that the whole purpose of this visit seems to be an opportunity for Josh to tell him to shut the hell up. Josh has lost $350 million because of Kendall’s whistleblowing on cruises, and yes, he wants father and son to make up and create a “functional situation”—but only to further protect his holdings.
I don’t think he really cares what Logan has to say about Kendall maybe one day running the business. And I don’t think he has any concern for the women Kendall has crafted into a crusade. “You work for the shareholders. For me. … I have a gun at your head,” Josh says, and although Josh is also an entitled, smarky jerk (the kind of guy Brody excels at portraying), he’s right that the Roys are in a very dangerous position. This shareholder drama has dragged on forever, and it has rarely felt like the Roys ever peer outside their own sphere of self-absorption to consider the other people who make up Waystar Royco.
Meanwhile, the rest of the Roys keep trying to gather ammo against their current enemies of Kendall and President Raisin. First up is Shiv, who is really skipping around Waystar Royco like Bring Your Daughter to Work Day. The disrespect that Karl and Frank level against her—I honestly don’t even disagree with it! They’ve worked with Roman for years, and they’ve seen him act well under pressure (like during that hostage situation with Eduard). Same goes for Kendall, in the Before Times. But Shiv is an unproved entity, and she doesn’t have any wins of her own yet that weren’t engineered by Logan beforehand. Even he knows that: “I gave you a destination. I can’t walk you there, okay? Nothing is a line. Everything, everywhere, is always moving, forever. Get used to it.”
The only people Shiv really seems to be able to intimidate are Tom (now obsessed with what prison he could end up in because of his sacrificial offer to Logan, and what horrible things could happen to him there), and ATN anchor Mark Ravenhead, the Nazi with the $30 million annual salary. When Shiv settles into that hard stare that Sarah Snook does so well, and when she pulls Logan’s name out of her back pocket, she’s able to get stuff done with people who fear Logan and therefore fear her by proxy.
So Ravenhead agrees to start spinning doubt and second guessing the President on air, and Logan is certainly pleased by that; consider his giggling when he lets Kerry listen in on the President’s tantrum about ATN coverage. But will Gerri, Frank, Karl, or even Hugo and Karolina be that easy to strong-arm? They’ve worked with Logan long enough that I think they have some pull that Shiv might not have. And consider that while Shiv is doing only what Logan tells her to do, Roman is out there doing stuff of his own volition.
The homeless man with the tattoo of Kendall’s initials, thanks to a prank at Kendall’s bachelor party in New Orleans years ago, is a pull that Roman offers preemptively. And while Gerri is correct in telling him to table it—being part of the “Tattoo Brothers” would blowback on Roman, too—I think Roman is setting himself apart by doing so much for Logan that hasn’t even been requested of him.
Once again I remain bummed out by the loyalty the child Logan physically abused (and has since verbally abused) has for his father, but I guess it’s not so dissimilar from whatever bonds tie Tom and Shiv together, or Tom and Greg. Greg failing to riff or wrestle with Tom, and already having a plan of attack for the parks job without talking to Tom first, might be more depressing to him than Shiv dropping his hand when someone walked by her office. “I’d castrate you and marry you in a heartbeat”?! It’s not like Tom is being marched off to prison yet, and he’s already saying goodbye to the person he loves the most!
But everything is up in the air in “Lion In The Meadow,” and maybe Tom is right to sense change coming. Josh bails on the Roys, and throws his lot in with SSS. Greg loses Pugh as his counsel, and flips back to Waystar. And Kendall once again suffers a blow to the righteous man persona that he thought would win people over. How much runway does Wokestar have left?
Stray observations
- Josh’s daughter Kitty was never sick, right? Getting the Roys to come to Josh was just because he could.
- Nice nod to Brody’s past filmography with “Fucking King Kong, come out to dance for me.”
- If you want to ruin your whole day and it’s not IP you’re familiar with, read about Nero and Sporus. The Romans were a lot.
- Shame on me for thinking Connor was the smart one for staying out of the family business. Take the wine-hosting show you are offered and go about your life, Connor! No one is going to trust you with more power than this! Truly though, he turned on Shiv real quick, didn’t he? I guess he thought more about that statement against Kendall and realized his only card to play for a payday is blackmail, so he might as well play it.
- Of course there was no way that the Greg/Kendall alliance would hold. Now that Greg agreed to the Waystar lawyer, Grandpa Ewan is going to be pissed, right? He and Pugh had a whole plan that Greg might now derail. But do I still think that Tom betrays Waystar and flips over to Kendall? Yes, I do.
- Kudos to Greg for at least asking Logan, “What’s it worth? What can I get?” At least Kendall bailing on that $40,000 watch promise has taught Greg something about getting your bribes and rewards in writing.
- What does Shiv do during the day aside from complain about people not giving her updates? All of her actions this episode reminded me of when Marcia ripped into her during “Pre-Nuptial,” S1E09. “He made you a playground and you think it’s a whole world” is a really apt way to describe the power Shiv thinks she has at Waystar Royco.
- Shiv’s recurring “I didn’t say anything that wasn’t true” line of defense about her Kendall statement is sort of hilarious because it’s not like Kendall didn’t say anything that wasn’t true when revealing Logan’s misdeeds, either. But whatever alliance the siblings once had might be irreparable at this point, especially as Shiv chooses to believe Logan when he says she’s next up in line to run the company.
- “Accountability’s a fucker.” Kendall… look back upon your history before you say things like this! I am begging for even a modicum of self-awareness!
- “I’m dating. I am dating, and that needs to be understood.” Okay, Gerri, fine, but what does Laurie offer you, respect and personal boundaries? Who needs those when the utterly devoted and charmingly roguish Romulus is right there!
- Thoughtful work by directors Shari Springer Berman and Robert Pulcini and costume designer Michelle Matland in presenting Kendall and Logan as mirrors, with dark jackets, dark baseball caps, dark pants, and constantly worn sunglasses. Kendall really has learned everything from his father, for better and for worse.
- Sophie and Iverson exist! But their rabbit is definitely going to die!
231 Comments
So I guess “Mark” is supposed to be like a mixture of Hannity and Tucker? (“the president is a friend”).
Sorta, but more openly a Nazi than either of them; they’re way scarier than a cartoonish Nazi because they can say all the same shit and maintain a veneer of humanity.
Hannity and Tucker are pretty openly white supremicists, if not quite exactly “nazis” at this point.
If only Waystar Royco were paying more attention to the opportunities associated with streaming…
Golden streams?
Definitely seems more like a Tucker. He has that smarmy, faux-intellectual vibe and extremely punch-able face.
Wait, who’s the Jamaican dude playing the investor?
But their rabbit is definitely going to die!Because of the general trends around pets in TV shows/movies or because Naomi Pierce is going to boil it? I’m not making this connection.The general Succession commentariat has been pro-Greg (as much as anyone is pro-anyone in the Roy family) for a while now, but this episode was a nice reminder that he’s just as self-interested as anyone else!
I found it weird that his decision was made offscreen. The Tom convo scene did not feel like he had made up his mind completely but maybe I’m wrong.
No you’re not. I’m confused on this point as well. I don’t think he agreed to anything. I don’t know why they’d delete a scene where he signs the agreement, but leave in that goes nowhere rabbit stuff.
This is my question as well–it almost seems more like Tom completely misinterpreted the conversation with Greg and they’re all taking Tom’s word for things.
Except Tom isn’t the person who tells us Greg signed, Shiv is. And Shiv doesn’t appear to have found out from Tom either, when she talks to Tom about it she acts as if she heard it from somebody else in the company. There’s of course some room for a weird game of telephone to have gone on here, but Shiv and Logan were talking about the situation with the confidence of people who had the actual signature on paper, not just some second-hand assurance.
Didn’t Tom tell Shiv in her office that Greg is “going to sign,” in the same conversation when he tells her Ravenhead didn’t listen to him?
Here’s how the scene goes:Tom enters the office. He says the meeting with Ravenhead didn’t go well. Shiv says that’s unfortunate, and Tom goes on that Ravenhead was “fairly unpleasant” about it all. Then, to switch to better news, Shiv says “But I heard that Greg’s a lock. He signed the JDA.” Shiv is the one who brings it up, and the language she uses indicates that they have Greg’s signature on paper.
Yeah, that was strange. The conversation between Greg and Tom ended without a definitive decision, but then Shiv seemed to confirm to Logan that Greg had indeed signed the JDA. I was disappointed we didn’t get at least get another scene with Peter Rieger as Ewan’s lawyer (Pugh?). I’m really hoping we haven’t seen the last of that character.
No, you’re not wrong at all
Yeah, I’m pretty sure that rabbit gets fresher carrots and better healthcare than you or I.
Biggest carrot in the world, if google has any say!!
not MY rabbit Anya, who is a giant Flemish that stands 3 feet tall and walks around vertical on her back legs when I tell her to. Also gives nose kisses and does tricks now too for cranberries (she LOVES those things) and hangs out w/ the pit bull (seriously they sleep together) 4 cats, and 2 ducks (and 3 turtles) comfortably.I guess what I’m saying is, DONT KILL THAT RABBIT OR ANYA WILL BE VERY ANGRY.
Yes! I fucking HATE Greg. Okay, maybe that’s too strong. I find him exceedingly annoying and fandom of him even moreso, particularly as any kind of Good Guy. His mealy-mouthed bumblefuck characterization does not mask how selfish and greedy he is. I DO think there’s SOME good in him. Like I think he genuinely dislikes the corruption and abuse in the company. But he also isn’t above profiting from it. That lack of self-awareness, coupled with the stuttery stumblebum nervousness, makes it *really* hard for me to not skip all his scenes. It’s a great performance, don’t get me wrong. And good writing for the most part. But boy does that shit get on my nerves.
I have to admit, I still find Greg’s scenes pretty funny, especially in terms of his relationship with Tom. But I’d agree that neither is a “good guy” by any objective measure—just less skilled/successful in their machinations and manipulations than most of the other characters.
He’s also incredibly lazy. Everything he does is to avoid, by hook or by crook, ever having to earn a living for himself.
You’re taking this Greg character way too seriously. He’s written mostly for humor and for that he is amazing. I laugh at almost every scene he’s in. Relax.
It’s fine that you’re not the biggest fan of the show, but it would be nice if you would offer some sort of criticism or rational for a ho-hum score instead of just recapping the episode.
I can only speak for myself but the presence of Adrien Brody drops anything a full letter grade.
Only if you’re supposed to like him, so arguably he fits right in for this show.I found him much harder to believe as a father who (SPOILERS) sacrifices himself for his children in Chapelwaite.
Hey, I don’t really care, but for future spoiler warnings of recent shows, you might want to put the name of the series before the thing being spoiled instead of after.
That’s one weak spoiler warning…
Are there people on here who actually subscribe to Epix?
Aw fuck you ruined Chapelwaite for us all I’ve been Chapeltaking my time watching it and you Chapelruined it for me.
I started out loving it and it took so. god. damned. long. to actually get to the point that I actively resented it by the end.Of course, part of the reason I’m bitter is it meant I had a useless Epix subscription for much longer than I planned to.
Except for that one episode of SNL of course.
I usually cannot stand him, but I think he nailed this part.
THE AV CLUB
The B works for me. Adrian Brody’s dumb trail walk was bizzare, the dumb “tattoo man” thing was bizarre, (the show’s insistence that Roman is somehow good at this is the hardest thing for me to buy into) and whatever interesting conflicts happening with Greg’s allegiances and the hilarious situation with his grandpa’s lawyer just got brushed over offscreen. Succession does this alot, where something that seems like it might be something is just already done.
The trail walk was strategic and brilliant and why this episode deserves an A as you don’t seem to understand that it was seemingly intentional on Josh’s part. He did it in order get them alone together to talk in a way they would never ever, and also a way for him to watch them both to see and test their states of mind. Logan failed because in Josh’s mind, if he can’t even handle a simple walk, how can he run the company? Kendall failed because he as Roman explained later, he could’ve stopped the walk to inisist on getting water or a cart for his father shows poor judgement on his part and also how he still defers to his father. Josh was also evesdropping on their chat and thought to himself that they have nothing on each other that could seriously upsurp their control of the company Also, the show never presented Roman as really good and the tattoo plan is them showing just how dirty and low he’ll go against Kendall. And Gregs conflicts didn’t get brushed off-screen, they addressed it directly; Logan came at him with an offer he couldn’t refuse: managing the theme parks like he always wanted and lots of money and good standing with the family, and he took it.
WHEN did Logan come at Greg with the parks offer?
You’re right about Greg and Logan, but my thing is more about Greg and Ewan. They just got something rolling with a lawyer but I guess that’s just, nevermind? Knowing what we know about their relationship, how does that just go without any acknowledgement?
I do think the show does try to make a case that Roman is good when he wants to be (his theme park idea won at management training, the deal struck during the hostage situation, etc) but seeing him in action just doesn’t square with the results he gets. If he wanted to go low on Ken, he could have co-signed on the letter with Shiv, and he didn’t. But tattoo guy, that’ll get him! Eh. It’s this kind of stuff. With Brody, I understood the purpose of the walk, I just didn’t find it all that
compelling. If you loved it, that’s fine, but I think we’ve seen them do
stronger episodes, so I side with the B grade.
As far as Greg and Ewan, its not and hardly never mind. Greg was always wishy-washy/flip floppy as far as which side to be on, but at the end, he’s always wanted acceptance and validation from Logan and the family, and Logan understands that better than Ewan does, while Ewan is seemingly just using Greg to get back at Logan, and Greg maybe aware of that too. It’s still early in the season and we still have several more episodes left. Why not wait and see how this tug of war with Greg pans out rather than assume its some kind of plot hole?Roman seemingly didn’t know about the letter. That was Shiv acting on her own accord purely as revenge against Kendall for that Nirvana stunt. And arguably, the tattoo guy is worse, but I have a feeling like Geri is suggesting, that it’s going to backfire on Roman, especially if it comes out that Roman was more behind it than Kendall was.
My takeaway from you and Roxana is that you guys really didn’t understand the big and value and takeaway from that walk to both Josh and to us viewers; that this Kendall and Logan war is more complicated and deeper than it looks, and that deep down, they do still love and care for each other and that was a really brilliant and slick move on the behalf of Josh and for the writers to think up something that complex and smart like that.
I think you and even Roxanna should be more patient with this show, or that just it isn’t really your cup of tea. But its a lot more compelling and smarter than you think it is.
thanks Mr. Armstrong
Or you’re reading into it what you want. Jesus, take a pill.You can’t have something as important as Greg signing on with Logan happen off-screen. The second I heard that my hackles raised. That’s either shitty writing, a scene cut for time, or it didn’t actually happen and the family is making an incorrect assumption.I don’t disagree with the idea that we should wait it out BUT I also think your response is antagonistically defensive. And sorry but fuck that noise.Same with the walk. It’s a good scene but opinions fucking vary. Relax. Your attitude is really superior, like you’re smarter than two people who just didn’t *like* the scene as much as you. I read the scene the same way you did but I agree with the meh reaction. Does it really say anything about Logan/Kendall as father/son that we don’t already know? It’s a clever scene for plot development but doesn’t do much character-wise, I don’t think.RobGrizzly isn’t taking the discussion nearly as personal as you seem to be. And not that they need me stepping in, maybe it’s even unwelcome. I just read the back and forth and your tone got under my skin.
I’m not saying the Ewan/Greg thing is a plot hole, I’m saying that’s a scene I would have liked to have seen given where they were at when we left them last week. There’s a difference. I’m not operating on what might or might not happen later, I’m going by the information as presented in the episode.
And that’s the thing
We’ve only been watching 3 seasons of Kendall and Logan’s relationship being more complicated and deeper than it looks. This isn’t breaking news. The walk doesn’t reveal anything we don’t already know. At least for me. It’s a difference of opinion. I’m not really sure why you’re telling me what I think about it, or why this has to turn into “Oh you just didn’t get it, maybe watch something else”Really?
For starters what’s with the”really?” Why do so many of you here get unnecessarily heated and result to being condescending and get all defensive and nasty just because you got told a difference of opinion? Or that one didn’t auto accept your black and white opinions? Dude, we’re strangers on the internet sharing opinions, not dueling to the death, no need to feel offended or the attitude.
And in that sense, you have been telling people what you think of it yourself as you’ve (and the reviewer) are turning it “this isn’t as deep or good as you think it is.” I disagree and still think that you are missed a lot that was expressed there and that it is too early in the season to speculate on anything Gregg is doing, and that I think you should consider a different show if you feel that things aren’t moving along in three seasons. Yes, it is a difference of opinion. That’s the whole idea of having a discussion about it and agreeing to disagree here. But not with this violent disagreement and looking to pick a fight. You can just chose not to reply to dismiss my comment if that angry or offended.
The “really?” is because I like you, Robot_Jox.
I know it’s the internet, and tone can be hard to pick up, but I’m not angry, I’m not trying to pick a fight. I’m just confused as to why you’re giving me so much pushback for agreeing with Roxana’s “B.” It’s not like I don’t like the show. I just think we’ve seen better episodes. Not asking anyone to auto-accept my views. Just respect them.
I haven’t disparaged any of your opinions, but you have disparaged mine. While I’m telling you it’s great that you liked it, you’re telling me I don’t understand it and it’s not my cup of tea. At the very least I should stick up for myself on that one. Surely you can understand someone taking umbrage with being told what their own tastes are. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Dude, I just elaborately explained that you shouldn’t take so much umbrage at anything I said. You just went and did exactly what I said not to do as far as get so easily offended and heated over a trivial opinion over a meaningless discussion. What do you need to “stick up for yourself” for? Did I threaten your honor or manhood or something for suggesting that you be a little paitient or look into it a little deeply an episode on a fictional TV show?!? C’mon dude, agree to disgree and let it go. I like you too so fuggedaboutit okay.
Roman knew about Shiv’s letter scorching Kendall; he declined to sign it, thought it went way too far.
Yeah, this episode was pretty dumb, albeit entertaining. A “B” seems almost generous.
what in the fuck is wrong with the readers on this site, every single time somebody gives an episode of a tv show a B, a bunch of unwashed asses crawl into the comments to whine that the show is actually perfect and the writer secretly hates it for no reason. go to hell
But at least we’re treated with a lot of exclamation points in the review!
What’s wrong with a B?I’d say that’s about right. A good episode, but not a particular stand-out for this series.
Nothing. Some people get defensive about things they love.
Granuality is lost. Everything is either the best or the worst. Amplify that through a scoring system that reminds kids of being in school and you get this sort of stuff.(And I’m in agreement, this is probably a B for this show which is a very very good show but has never seemed concerned with making every episode the greatest thing ever as much as telling a story with peaks and troughs)
Rationale would be helpful, yeah, but I don’t disagree.
On one hand: Josh having the upper hand here and making people dance for him is an interesting turnabout. As if Logan wouldn’t have used his kids as a means of manipulating situations ever in his life, or manipulated situations to put people at not just mental but maybe even physical disadvantages.
On the other, it was somewhat drawn out. We got the point pretty fast. The episode could have moved along a tiny bit faster. Not awful at all, just maybe needed a little tightening.
Regardless, it’s always so interesting to see how the show plays with our desires to empathize somewhere, somehow, in almost any situation. Logan’s a piece of shit through and through, but still somehow you get a little hitch watching him try to force himself to step through Josh’s game. Shiv’s being even more of a bully and tyrant than usual but you feel for her in that moment after the call ends and you wonder if she really wants to cry but doesn’t or can’t.
i’m thinking about rebranding as a guy who takes review scores very seriously, any tips?
AV Club reviews, directly translatable to Wikipedia as episode synopses.
This is unrelated to anything to do with this show, but I appreciate that unlike what the Ted Lasso reviews would have done this post doesn’t waste time complaining that the episode didn’t pick up in the middle of the FBI raid on the office.
Maybe it should have. That seemed like kind of a big deal
And on a lesser show, some unnamed FBI agent that we’ve never met before, who would now become a main antagonist character, would comb through the first or second file cabinet they confiscated and immediately find damning documents that would send Logan right to jail. On this show, which is pretty heavily based in reality, the FBI came in and took everything, and that’s it. They will build their case through weeks of combing through these documents to actually find the damning evidence. What would we have gotten from an FBI raid in-progress on this show?
I want to watch scenes of mid-level government employees reading through memos and emails sent between mid-level corporate employees detailing the mundane minutia of their workdays!
If this were a network drama with 24 episode seasons, they would totally make a standalone episode of 2 brand new characters, mid-level FBI analysts, just combing through different emails and reading all the dumb dirt that the Roys and upper level executives are up to, and it would be a clip show of things that never actually happened on Succession.
I don’t know if it was a big deal – the actual important part was what we saw in the last episode, that the raid happened at all. I think we’re supposed to take Gerri’s comments largely at face value, that the raid served as warning shot from the DOJ and wasn’t meant to actually procure any damning evidence.
I still think Greg is in with Grandpa and Pugh and will work all angles.
I’ve generally been more empathetic towards Shiv than some others, but tonight the writers really made her into an Ivanka Trump figure—nasty, clueless, and entitled without the vulnerability.The recent New Yorker review of this new season made the good point that the show is like a great sitcom: the plot can be variations on the same story and the characters have the same dynamics and don’t change. I like the comedy but I prefer the emotional drama: when it hits, its gold. Tonight’s ep seemed more on the sitcom side.
I mean, arguably the neutral set point the series has been going back to for a while is the idea that the stakeholders are going to wrest control of Waystar Royco out of Roy hands and ongoing Roy antics are going to contribute to that decision in a major way.It was exciting to hear an exact timeline and feel like there might be some progress on that storyline. (Board meeting in four days!) But at the same time, I wouldn’t be surprised if we had to wait at least one more episode for any sort of payoff.
I think Shiv is being true to character. She’s been extremely entitled and self centered since episode one. I think a lot of us latched on to her in the beginning because she was the outsider and claimed to be progressive but that was never a true belief any more than it’s Kendall’s now. Is she clueless? She does tend to overreach but her father is prickly and often unreadable. Yeah her father chewed her out tonight but that might not speak to ignorance on her part as much as trying to navigate a minefield.
I never liked Shiv (not that this programme asks or expects you to “like” any of them) so I’m enjoying the current weekly game of “Let’s brutalise Shiv” while giving her just enough wins that it doesn’t feel like seal-clubbing.I also like the way that the entire 3rd season so far has undermined the finale of the 2nd – No, Kendall did not have the killshot evidence he claimed to have and no, he’s not suddenly some folkloric hero, he’s still devious, self-serving deluded little weasel he always was.I really liked Logan’s scene with Kerry and the phone at the end there. It’s nice to see that, while he’s still a colossal prick, he’s not wholly evil all of the time and he is capable of making someone else’s day (even if it was at a third party’s expense). It was quite sweet and playful, in an “I’m capable of bullying the most powerful man in the world” sort of way.
When Logan gets to be personable and charming, it really shows how someone like that could become so powerful and become such a “self-made man.” He always says “I know people,” and he really does. That’s what his kids don’t get. They have an idea of what people are like based on what their dad has taught them, but they’ve been isolated from “real people” their whole lives. Logan has seen the worst of people through his horrible upbringing, and he knows how to appeal to the worst of people as a result.
Absolutely. That ‘Nothing is a line’ speech is the skeleton key to his success.
Was Logan’s scene with Kerry making her day? When your powerful and scary boss says “laugh at this with me,” you’re going to laugh at it with him. What choice do you have? And if she genuinely enjoyed the way they pissed someone else off (her president, no less) it makes the scene a pointed look at how systemic toxicity is passed down between employees. Indicative of the way being an asshole can be contagious, taught and trained. Basically, The Logan Way
I think *he* thought it was, aye.Don’t get me wrong, Logan is terrible both in a macro and micro sense. He’s not your classic big scary boss who is actually nice to the lower workers, like previous Jesse Armstrong character Malcolm Tucker was, for example. We’ve seen Logan absolutely tear into a waiter and basically get him fired, after all.However I do think he thought it would be a little thrill for Kerry to hear the President lose it. I’m sure she had in mind the same darker implications you did.
i think many people would be amused to hear the president lose his shit on a private line and i don’t think they’re bad people for that
I dunno, they’re pretty explicitly saying this is Trump without actually saying it, so I’m not sure that scene was intended to represent any kind of systematic toxicity within the company. Even without the Trump connection, the circumstance of holding enough power over the supposed most powerful man in the country is amusing in and of itself, for both Kerry and the viewer.
One of these days I am going to be in a meeting and I am going to be able to use the phrase “devious, self-serving deluded little weasel”. Oh yes, oh yes I will.
They really did lean into the Ivanka of it all.
I thought Shiv was unusually hot in this episode. Must be all of that confident power.Of course, anytime she lays into Tom, poor Greg gets the brunt of it, lol.
When has Ivanka expressed vulnerability?
Overall the show does seem to me, certainly at this point, like it goes in circles, variations on a theme, without the overall story ever really getting anywhere. Yep, in that sort of classic sitcom (or even old school drama) style.
All I know is that I’m going to be saying “Strong for a man” all week.
Shall I chug this?
This show is masterful at exposing those who are outsiders to this wildly rich lifestyle. Greg thinking he has to finish his drink before he leaves the office, lest it go to waste, is so subtle and so perfect.
That whole Atlantic coast feast of steamers, lobster claws and shrimp louie pasta salad with fresh mint in water…….and the stunning isolated and private view, being rich doesn’t entirely suck does it?
I don’t know, I’d hate to live on an island where you could get lost on the shortcut trail that sometimes takes longer and it might take the guys with the carts 10 minutes to find you.
Josh wasn’t lost at any point in that walk. It was all strategy to test Logan and Kendall.
Absolutely – note how, although Josh supposedly had important business to attend to (and I’m pretty sure that that “I have to ignore you now because I hve something more important to do” vibe was part of provoking Logan and seeing how he reacted!), he never actually seems remotely concerned about being lost. He remains calm and casual without even any annoyance, while nonsensically explaining that this shortcut is longer ‘sometimes’, and refuses to give the carters any information that might help them actually find them. [and the only reason they couldn’t find them on either the route or at the table was that Josh had dragged them off the route onto a shortcut].
Imagine it was Logan doing something like that – would we assume an innocent mistake? And think of the servants: if Josh is the kind of guy to get himself completely lost on his own island on a regular basis, wouldn’t they be able to adapt to this? This is a guy who casually expects a full fresh lunch on a beach at exactly the right moment – if Josh made a habit of wandering off-track, his servants would damn well have the possible routes memorised…
Josh wasn’t lost at any point in that walk. It was all strategy to test Logan and Kendall.This. It’s strange how many people think the billionaire on his private island who had a vested interest in wearing down Logan and Kendall would actually get lost.
Because he seemed like the kind of guy that would only own an island like that just to have it. He would only go out to that edge of the beach for a lunch to impress other people, it’s not an every day occurrence. You think he’s really out there hiking through his unmarked acres of land on a regular basis? He got lost because he’s a clueless asshole just like every other rich person on this show. He was trying to get back quicker because Stewy was coming in and was calling him, and the Roys couldn’t keep up, and he didn’t know where to go. Getting them to the table and finding out their story was his master plan, nothing else.
I think both possibilities have plenty of support and am annoyed by how much smarter one read of the situation thinks they are than the other.Sometimes the Succession fandom is like a miniature version of the show. Everyone thinks they’re so much smarter than everyone else…
That is very true
Yep!
Exactly, Islands are the last thing you get lost on, let alone your own property.
Is it bad that I mourned more for the wasted food than for Logan’s collapse?
I suppose the help will have a nice meal.
Your comment makes me think it would be a good idea to have a special “uneaten seafood tax” levied in all island locales designated as “billionaire friendly.”
Wasted food? Oh no, that’s where the cart-drivers are!
No, it’s not bad at all. I mourned, too!
At least it didn’t get thrown out for having raccoon stench on it.
Like Tom said, “Being rich is… F–ing GREAT!”
seeing logan interact with his kids is so painful. the manipulation, the abuse. the fact that you could see that kendall, despite probably being the one out of all the 3 kids whose eyes are the most open to logan’s manipulations, clearly for a moment wanted what logan said to be genuine. shows how hard it is to really break out of that cycle.
logan will never really trust any of his kids to run the company (i do think out of all the kids he respects kendall the most because kendall is the only one who has ever been able to go after him) because he sees them as weak but they are that way because of him!!!
The kids all seem to be suffering imposter syndrome, but the truth is they are imposters. None of them appear to have any business experience beyond the jargon.
This is a great point–Shiv’s act this episode is such a clear example of that. She doesn’t have any idea what she’s talking about, all she can do is give orders from Daddy.
and I despise business jargon. “Open the kimono”. EW. My boss used that with me once at my old job. Everything from “raise a flag” to “sunsetting” to “taking this offline”…
I’d love to circle the wagons and kick the tires on this topic, but I don’t want to beat a dead horse so I’ll just agree with your sentiment towards said business jargon.
I hate you.
My favorite was the dual “action stations!”
“changing the paradigm” was big in the aughts.
FWIW, I think Logan’s comments about Kendall were completely genuine and true. Though, obviously, they were ALSO manipulation…
It’s the I, Claudius thing – each emperor is upset at the idea of their successor being better, so they ensure the successors get worse and worse.
Nowhere else to mention it , but vaguely related as it starred Brian Cox , and featured this amongst its Netflix -esq Show posters , but hell froze over last night and there was actually a good episode of the SimpsonsA Serious Flanders being a surprisingly dark Simpsons take on ‘prestige TV crime shows ‘ , and it actually works! (also Chris O’Dowd and Cristin Milotti!)Also being non canon , it kills a LOT of Springfield regulars off.Second part tis next week , where undoubtly it’ll all fall apart.
Shiv has underestimated everyone again and again and again. Everyone is an idiot in her eyes. Except for her father. But with Tom and here with the whole prison situation, we’re just on another level of… I don’t know… disdain? And I have to say, I thought she would downgrade it at least a little after the whole “I wonder if the sad I’d be without you would be less than the sad I get from being with you” in the season 2 finale. After that, and with everything that’s been going on since, I would at least, in the back of my mind, consider the possibility that my husband could potentially leave (with informations) and never look back. I don’t know if that’s where we’re headed but I wouldn’t mind if it was. It’s interesting how Succession manages to make us concerned for one terrible person over another one.
Old people will remember a running column in Ladies Home Journal, a magazine my Mother used to get, called “Can This Marriage Be Saved”.Tom & Shiv would be a strong “Nope”.
Old female people maybe! Not too many of us guys ever read that mag!
The whole point of Siobh’s relationship for her, though, is dependability: Tom will always be there for her. Not only is it hard to consider that he might not be, but she’s inherently resistent to the idea of considering that, because not having to consider that is a huge part of why she’s with Tom at all.
To be fair to her, though, there’s not much she CAN do or say. I do think she wants to protect him. But she can’t guarantee anything right now. And she’s not the “warm but meaningless words of reassurance” sort of woman. [she also probably feels on some level that Tom demanding spousal affection and support at work is intruding on her work life, and threatening her already vulnerable position at the company. It’s one thing for Tom to fear that it looks like his wife is fucking him; but as a woman who’s already half-dismissed as her father’s toy, Siobh has got to be worried about also being half-dismissed as Tom’s wife. If you think people at work don’t respect you because you’re not man enough for the job, you probably don’t love the idea of people seeing your husband holding your hand in your office …]
The character & writer spell it “Shiv.” Her name is Shiv.
Siobhan, long version
Her nickname is “Shiv.” Her name is Siobhan, which is pronounced “shivan.”
I think they’re replying to the Wastrell person who insists every week over and over again that everyone should be spelling the nickname Siobh. Despite the fact that as pointed out it’s written “Shiv” for the character in the show (and also for the record that’s how i’ve seen a real life Siobhan spell her own nickname)
Because even before you shorten it, it’s always pronounced with a “v “
Or even “zhvonne.” What’s up with that name anyway? Spelled with a B, but pronounced with a V.
It’s Scottish Gaelic, so who knows what those druids were thinking?
I’ve been through this from the opposite side and can tell you from experience: let it go. You’re not wrong about how the writer and character write the nickname. You are wrong about her name. Either way, nobody cares. Write your little correction on a post it note and stick it to your monitor or phone or wherever you read the site and know that nobody cares. I ate SO MUCH more shit for writing my “her name is Siobhan, her nickname should be Siobh” post than I deserved. I wish I had done the post it note for myself.
I think it’s not just her, it’s in general use a name, lots of women have it and it seems to be spelled Siobahn (I even noticed someone in the scrolling credits with that first name after the last episode I watched) and always pronounced Zhvonne, which I don’t get – who came up with this!
Are you just completely unaware that it’s a Gaelic name? Gaelic spellings and pronunciations are not like American English spellings and pronunciations. When you say “who came up with hit” you sounds like you think someone simply came up with an odd spelling/pronunciation combo for the hell of it.
short for Siobhan, a Gaelic name. Shiv is the phonetic sounding of the family nickname for the character played by Sara Snook.
On that note, I thought Tom’s speech to Greg perfectly summarized his own emasculation in such a perfect way. He can only project onto Greg his own insecurities in his relationship. The whole “Nero” story he tells Greg is his own and he might not even see it. His relationship to Shiv and the Roy family has potentially ruined his life and manhood
i think an important throughline in this show is that none of these characters are capable of changing. so shiv can feel sorrowful when tom tells her how unhappy he is in their marriage, but the instant there’s some pressure on her, she’ll default back to treating him like a dog.then again, i recall in S1 that tom’s lawyer mom called the prenup “unconscionable” or something like that so he might not be able to leave her without losing entrails.
I appreciated how we got to see how Shiv and Tom’s angling to get her into power as become a “be careful what you wish for” situation for them. The move they thought was the best for them is turning out to be terrible. It was incredible to hear Shiv push back against Tom’s point that it’s not good optics or even sensical to have him reporting to his wife because she’s so paranoid about holding onto power that she won’t make an allowance in the once place where it’s most essential. She can’t be her husband’s boss AND be touting herself as the new, more ethical Roy at the company!
i said the same to my wife, “how does this show make us sympathize each week with someone that last week was the world’s biggest POS”? (Sometimes the same week.)Its a great demonstration of the strength of the show, that we can so easily fall for such clearly bad people.And Shiv? Shiv’s the most like her dad of them all, she’s a pure narcissist with only real worries about how she’ll end up or look. Tom, her brothers, her dad…they’re all part of the Shiv Show, and she’ll run thru them all if she has to for her final win.
I was afraid he’d never work again after turning down Star Wars
Okay, so like, you know at the beginning of Hamlet, when he tells Claudius “I have too much sun” and it is a play on words because of their weird family status? And Kendall tells Josh his dad had “too much sun” after hanging around his son for the entire day surrounded by an air of increasing anxiety and discomfort? Is that something? Anyone?And no, Kitty was never sick because Josh, just like Kendall, uses his child as a cover to further his own interest.I feel like maybe this has been mentioned in the past but I’d like to come back to it- Roman’s loyalty to Logan is founded on a strange mixture of fear, resignment and actual love. Inbetween the lines he has made it clear over and over again that in his world his father is unbeatable (a “human Saudie Arabia” if you will) there is no outcome where he does not win, Logan is inescapable and as long as he has a present, guess what, Roman is gonna side with him, just like he did in that season 1 board room meeting. But, like all the children, the fear of Logan actually dying is very real and unpleasant (?)- remember when he asked Greg to get Logan’s pullover for him to the hospital?On a final note, the scene where Logan gets progressively worse while making Kendall insist he is fine, wow, new level of uncomfortable unlocked.
Josh basically told Kendall as much, he literally said “I just didn’t want to go into the city.”
There’s a good bit of subtle Shakespeare throughout Succession so I find the son/sun play very possible.Yeah that Logan/Kendall scene was incredibly tense–I even wondered for a second if Brody’s character was *trying* to kill Logan.
I wondered that, too. The whole “I have to run ahead, but just a little bit” thing felt very forced and illogical. Not necessarily that he was trying to kill Logan, but that he was testing his stamina deliberately, as well as Ken’s response.
I think that was about trying to get rid of them before Stewy landed—but Logan couldn’t walk fast enough. As soon as Brody’s character got the phone call, I just knew it was Stewy (or his people) on the other line.
of course! Thanks for connecting that.
He probably was, yes, but also he’s testing their ability to climb up a hill together without killing each other – juuust in earshot of any shouting, but far enough that the pair feel free to talk to one another. I think he was honest about his intentions: he wants to know whether Logan+Kendall can function as a team. Also, whether Logan (after a stroke, betrayals and provocations) still has it; and whether Kendall is ready to take over.
And they completely failed every test. OK, so they did show they can play nice. But Logan’s physically weak, and mentally weak too, unable to accept that he needs help. Kendall is either in fear of his dad, or hates him, because he should have asked Josh for help for Logan himself if Logan wasn’t going to do it. Yes, that showed Kendall would still side with Logan against an outsider – but Josh, as an investor and outsider, doesn’t really WANT the Roys to stick together at all costs. He wants them to be able to work together in a rational way that benefits everybody (mostly him). By the end of the walk, Josh knows that if Logan wins, it won’t be for long – and that his chances of winning are impeded by a refusal to accept reality (the ‘disconnect’). He knows that if Kendall wins, Logan won’t go easy. He knows that Kendall won’t ‘see reason’ and back down, but he also knows that Kendall is weak and still in the shadow of his father. After that, why wouldn’t he back Furness?
I don’t think this was a specific master-plan to test what they’d do if Logan got heat-stroke… but I think he just generally wanted to push and prod them in different directions, in person, in different settings, to see how they would act.
Exactly. And he wanted to do it on his turf.
great analysis. Logan has anosognosia (lack of self-awareness that you are ill [usually refers to lack of mental health, but can also refer to physical illness]).
Yeah, I think certainly Josh was testing the elder Roy’s stamina, which is why he insisted on a walk. But it looks like he got lost on the way back and it went too far, and Logan and Ken were having their pissing contest so no way was Logan going to stop. But for a few minutes it seemed anything was possible, including Logan flat-out dying.
Hey. There’s no way you’re going to “get lost” on your own friggin’ property, for crissakes.
It crossed my mind. That whole thing was shot in a creepy way too
It seemed that way. Also earlier while the three were overlooking the cliffs, I wondered if perhaps Logan and Josh had conspired to push Kendall (who was standing between them) over the cliff. I think these were all suspicions (red herrings?) built into the scenes.
On a final note, the scene where Logan gets progressively worse while making Kendall insist he is fine, wow, new level of uncomfortable unlocked.
Yeah, I don’t consider myself squeamish about that kind of thing, but that was a hard scene to watch. I was almost shouting at my TV “For fuck’s sake, take a breather!”
I think the “actual love” part of Roman’s feeling toward Logan is somewhat of an aspirational thing. Roman’s probably modeled a significant portion of himself off of Logan – his quippiness and vulgarity is very much cut from Logan’s cloth, and his initial instinct in many situations is to just crush whatever insect needs crushing, just like his dad. I think a lot of whatever affection he has for Logan is tied up in his own identity.
Good catch. The Shakespeare is strong with this one, so I wouldn’t be surprised if it was intentional. We’ve already got plot points and references from Julius Caesar, Hamlet, Othello, King Lear, MacBeth and probably more. (My own theory though is Greg is the secret main character and that the greater arc is going to be a perverse Great Expectations)
In the next episode, Roman very inaccurately says that his Dad is “always six moves ahead.” He worships him.
Did I miss Greg signing the agreement or was that an off screen thing? I never saw him even agree to it. I wondered if Tom said he did to gain some leverage with Shiv. What the fuck is the deal with walking half a mile out toward the ocean to have lunch you don’t even eat? And then you don’t even know how to get back to your own house? Hey Richie Rich, ever think about putting up markers along the trail? Lights or something? Idiot. Roman’s Tattoo Man play is ridiculous. I love that Gerri is shutting that little asshole down. He’s not even bright enough to realize she’s playing him.
I don’t think Gerri is playing Roman, really. I think she likes him and wants him to succeed and is setting him up for that by keeping him out of his own way. Keeping Tattoo Man as back pocket leverage is the smarter play.
I think she cares about him and wants to help him, but she’s playing along with the flirting thing to control him.
The point of all that wasn’t to have a nice lunch and leisurely stroll, it was to get them together alone away from their respective parties to talk to each other and to wind them up to do what he wanted for them. They got lost out there and wandered around on purpose in order to prolong negotiations. Given that he’s a billionaire, wasting food and time like that is something he does all the time.
But he didn’t really care about the negotiations because at the end he’s hugging it out with Stewey at the airport. I think ultimately he was just mining them for info for Stewey. I didn’t think it was “let’s all hang out and have a leisurely stroll”, it just seemed ridiculous to wander out there to eat, and then not know how to get back.
He did care about the negotiations because as Roman explained to Kendall, he was testing and watching them to see their mental and emotional state, and they failed, especially Logan. Now that he saw that Kendall is too dumb and naive, and Logan too sick and frail, the choice is Stewie/Sandi to run the company since both Roys are in no position to do it. He probably always thought that way, its just that now he got a confirmation.So again, its not ridicoulous considering the intent which was to isolate them far away from prying eyes and ears in order to get them to talk, and to wind them up to see who breaks first, and the fact that he has more than enough money and time to throw away on stunts like that.
I think the biggest rich person flex was leaving all that uneaten shell fish out in the middle of nowhere. Someone’s gonna have to chase off all the seagulls/clean all the bird shit.
That someone is the army of staff at his whim that is gonna have to schlep all the way out there to clean all that shit up for little pay. That’s the rich person flex.
I suppose on the plus side for those workers… They probably all have housing on the island and since it looks like it’s just one person and their kid… maybe they don’t actually have to work all that much? I assume he keeps all his staff on call so they’re there when he needs them. But how many cliffside lobster boils is this guy actually having?
Disgusting. What happened to all that food?
Tell me, Succession fans, if the thought didn’t at least briefly cross your mind to try to warn Kendall not to walk too close to the edge of the cliff.
I was curious about Greg, too. It feels meaningful that they didn’t show him making that commitment?
Either he did really sign and the show is telling us that, or Logan told Shiv that Greg signed based on the “not a deal, but a plan” conversation with Greg, and Shiv passed that along to Tom. I suppose we’ll find out for sure next week.
I don’t recall us seeing Greg sign the agreement, only that Tom, Shiv, and Logan claim that he did. At first I thought Tom might be lying, but the thing is that Shiv could easily discern whether he was telling the truth or not by simply asking Greg herself, and asking for the signed document in person. I wouldn’t be surprised if the document is available digitally as well, so there’s another route for confirmation.
To your next point, I thought it was a simple power play by Josh. He broached the subject once they were eating, when he said that he has a gun to their head, not the other way around. Making them come out to the island, instead of meeting in the city, was a power play as well. In fact, I’m pretty sure he was bullshitting and extending the length of the walk back just to see how much Logan and Kendall would make each other squirm. It’s one thing for them to play nice, however tepidly, while they’re sitting across from him. Once you add in physically difficulty and stress and him not really paying attention, the truth and the claws come out.
Roman’s play is ridiculous, but I think it shows that although people within the company think the fact that Roman is young and hip to the various changing business needs in terms of new media, he’s still just as sheltered and spoiled as his siblings and because of that, doesn’t see how parading the Tattoo Man makes him look bad as well.
Roman’s always had problems with impulse control, and too much faith in his own scheming. He sees something he correctly recognises as a chip, and he goes for it – he doesn’t think through whether it’s actually prudent to play that chip right now, or how it might backfire. He’s smart, but he isn’t wise.I also think he knows this, and this is what he’s using Gerri for; and I wonder whether Gerri being there is actually an excuse for him to be more infantile. Roman’s always been able to act on impulse, because he’s always had someone else to say no to him when he crosses a line, or whom he can blame when things go wrong – Logan, Kendall (eg the original tattoo incident, which we all know will have been mostly Roman’s idea…), Frank, and now Gerri.
Greg pretty much admitted that he signed when he told Tom that Logan promised him a management gig in the Theme Parks division.
Then Greg is dumb as all shit because didn’t Ewan promise him a $250m if he walked away from Waystar? No management gig in a company under duress is gonna equal that money, and of course Ewan might’ve been lying just to use Greg to spite Logan, but given how everyone is using Greg in one way or another, why ask for management gig instead of a direct payoff (whether it be from Logan, Kendall, or Ewan)?
1. Greg has always been dumb, naive, indecisive, so its not surprising.2. Greg has always wanted to be in charge of the theme parks division; that’s why he was there in the first season, and Logan smartly knew that.3. There’s no guarantees or assurance that Ewan was really going to give him that kind of money.4. It’s still early in the season. Maybe he’ll flip back to Ewan?
I think it was $5 million. No chump change, but still nowhere close to a quarter bill.
Gramps told him it would have been 250 mill if he quit Logan; I think Greg said his mother told him that even in that case, he still get 5 mill (which Tom told him is basically nothing). No idea how she thinks she knows that
Huh? Were we watching the same episode? Greg did NOT tell Tom that Logan promised him anything. Logan told him to “think hard about what it is you want and come back to me” or something along those lines
Pretty sure Josh knew exactly how to get back but purposely led them around to create tension and wear them down.
When we hear what Josh is saying on the phone, it does seem that they’re lost, or there’s some miscommunication with the cart who was supposed to pick them up.
There was no cart that was supposed to pick them up. He repeatedly asked Kendall and Logan whether or not they WANTED a cart and they kept declining.
Good point about Greg. We didn’t SEE him sign it, and the scene’s resolution displayed so much animosity it would certainly imply he WOULDN’T sign it. Maybe it’s just a bit of poor writing and editing there. We’ll see.
i feel like maybe the whole greg situation is part of his grandfather and lawyer’s plan, i just have no clue how. maybe the plan is to destroy the company from the inside out.then again, maybe he’s just playing the game!
Amen to the Greg issue. WHEN did he sign that agreement? Last I saw, Tom was peevishly knocking over the coat rack as he left Greg’s “office.” Nobody signed anything. I was scratching my head at that one. And he referred to “Ravenhead” I swore he was talking about Shiv!!
I think Greg is still in with his grandpa and Pugh. Whatever that was, it’s probably Tom trying to save face.
I don’t remember seeing the Greg thing either
Do people really not understand what Josh was doing here? He was flexing, making Kendall and Logan come onto his turf because he knows he has leverage with his four percent stake. It doesn’t sound like a big piece of the pie but is actually crucial when control over the company is hanging on a knife edge. He also wanted to test Logan and Kendall physically and mentally. From his perspective, his investment only works if Kendall and Logan are rowing in the same direction. What he learned, however, from putting them under physical and mental duress was: (a) Logan’s physical health is a problem and moreover, his mental prowess and his filter are eroding (i.e., the comment about the coffee and bagels), (b) Logan will never cede control of the company gracefully, even to his children (no viable succession plan in place), and (c) Kendall is still too deferential to his father and not fit to take the reins. Josh shrewdly got all the info he wanted to make his decision, hence the pivot to Stewy and Sandy at the end of the episode.Regarding Shiv, I think Greg signed. Logan was told that Greg did so, and I would hope that nobody (including Shiv) would be stupid enough to pass that information on without verifying. I guess we’ll find out for sure next week. I also think Shiv is in for a real rude awakening this season. She likes to throw her weight around, but it’s clear nobody actually respects her because she has very little practical experience in the company. And the one person who did love and respect her is increasingly realizing what a selfish and cold person she is. Although I don’t think Tom has thrown her under the bus just yet with the Greg signature, I could definitely see Tom bolting to Kendall’s side before the end of the season, which will further put Shiv in the doghouse.Roman often has good instincts, but he’s too impulsive. Gerri imparted a useful lesson to him this week about keeping his powder dry and always thinking about how a particular action would advance his position, but it also wouldn’t surprise me if she tucked away the story regarding the tattoo to potentially use against Roman and Kendall later (her comment about how it would be “our little secret” made me perk right up). You don’t survive in a company like that and rise to C-Suite level without knowing how to metaphorically kneecap your rivals and bury some bodies. Gerri is definitely a dark horse to watch.Greg is an absolute riot, and also a dark horse. His question regarding what it all means “in terms of the me of it all” implies that he’s not a complete dipshit, and is aware that he may have some leverage. He ends up getting a pretty good deal for himself, and seems to have a viable plan for his advancement within the company mapped out in his head. What are the odds of him eventually taking over the company? He is a member of the family, after all…Finally, I would love to see a little more Marcia. Heck, she should be heading the company. Seems to be a theme, here – both she and Gerri, who are older women, have their stuff together and are more than capable of running the show at Waystar Royco, imho.
On rewatch, I think we’re supposed to understand that Greg signed offscreen…I got the impression that Shiv got the news that he had signed independent from Tom. But clarity here would be helpful; it’s the rare moment where the show underplays something a little too much.
I thought the same thing about Greg, people keep saying that he signed on but we never saw it happen, so I didn’t believe it. Turns out it was true though.
When watching the episode I kept getting distracted trying to count how many pieces of clothing Adrien Brody was wearing on his upper body. If we’re counting the hat and scarf, then I see seven(!) pieces of clothing above the waist. That’s insane.
I did the same thing when I saw the picture in this review. It looks fantastic but man must it be hot.
Ah, Succession. Where a declaration of love is a cynical business ploy, and a threat of castration is a declaration of love.
The disrespect that Karl and Frank level against her—I honestly don’t even disagree with it!
I did. I mean, I think Shiv is generally despicable, but I still believe in being a team player at the workplace. And Karl and Frank have gradually turned into Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum over the seasons. So them being like that was like, really, my dudes?? She’s trying. Help a sister out!
But genuinely imagine that your boss’s child walks into your office and tries to tell you what to do. Would you be inclined to “help a sister out?”
If I know she’s potentially next in line to take over? Probably
There’s also something to be said for the fact that she walked in on them mid-lunch. I think Karl and Frank both found this annoying. She’s acting awfully entitled and demanding, boss’ daughter and potential heir or not. I wondered in the scene if they might have been more responsive had she not interrupted their eating. Not everyone can be a Logan and Kendall, leaving perfectly good food around cuz bizness.
Karl is really into his food. Also, he was annoyed Shiv interrupted and was “subtly” telegraphing this by covering his mouth while he was responding to her. A few seconds later, when Shiv was still there harassing them w/ questions, Karl pushed aside his lunch, and glanced at it longingly.
Loved seeing Nicholas Braun and Brian Cox interact. Doesn’t happen often enough.
“Greg, you Ichabod Crane fuck!” is one of my favourite lines from the entire series so far.
And not a rough-jack to be found!
Brody! Awesome. Cool as a cucumber. A welcome addition and I hope he sticks around. Really dug this episode.The one thing that sticks out to me – Kendall’s kids enjoying their rabbit via Facetime. And yeah that rabbit is going to be boiled.
Not a Brody fan, but I loved this storyline and his performance. This was a setup from the get-go. The call to the island, the “hike” for lunch, the passive aggressive offers for a return ride in a cart. He baited a frail and egotistical Logan to expose his own frailty (anti-Semitism), and likewise exposed dimwitted egotistical Kendal as being all gun and no bullets. Beyond any doubt he proved that the two will never set aside personal and interpersonal issues for the benefit of the stockholders, hence the closing scene with Stewey.
Ever since the Adrien Brody casting was announced I was expecting him to get some big, bombastic role (I kept thinking he would show up as the scorched-earth lawyer Logan wants to hire in the season premiere). So to see him show up and be this subdued was a really pleasant surprise.
The further and further this show continues with Shiv being as much a privileged conniving asshole as any of the rest of the family, the more I become more convinced her character was re-written after an early “pilot” or test views. It’s never made sense to me that, as ultimately and currently played, that, 1) She’d have been working for the uber-liberal Eric Bogosian Senator, the arch-enemy of her father, and 2) Would have married a corporate shill -bruh like Tom.
IMO this would have only happened if she was the inverse black sheep of the famly – a more meek, liberal, do-gooder of the family, who was pressured in to marrying a “Tom”. I can certainly see her playing that kid of role with less glam as she is not conventionally starlet-hot in appearance. I think at some point they kept the same talented cast and re-wrote her, but then made it non-sensical that she’d have wound up that high up in Bogosian’s liberal world, and would have never bothered marrying a guy like Tom, who she ultimately cuckholded by waving her side guy in his face on their wedding night.
I love the characters and actors as-is, but those two things just never made sense to me in light of what transpired throughout the show.
Shiv’s arc makes sense- she was never really a liberal, just someone that liked to play the image of independent liberal woman because she wanted to pretend she was better than her father and the rest of the family, and also because Kendall was way ahead of her in the, uh, Succession line.Once her father offered a taste of real power, she dropped any pretense.
As for Tom, as Logan himself said, she wanted a weak man she can control- basically, the opposite of her father.
She also the youngest (as far as I can tell) so she’s most recently out of school and pretty likely went to a liberal-leaning college, I think she could have been genuine about being more liberal/progressive in her 20s because of her peers and environment but that eroded when she was out in the world.
If she wasn’t a liberal she’d have never risen to be the sidekick of the biggest liberal Senator in the United States. That’s my point about the character as we actually see her in the show. They filmed it as she is now from the initial episode on- but I’m convinced she wasn’t supposed to be this version of Shiv from the point of story conception and maybe casting. In real life there’s no way Bernie’s right hand is a conniving right winger from Rupert Murdoch’s clan, who is running a con on him. And, they pretty much dropped the second-rate Bogosian plot line anyway. I prefer the version we’ve been watching because I think keeping such an unlikely liberal pushover in that situation would have strained credulity as badly as making her Bogosian’s aide.
As for men, as portrayed she can control as many and whatever men she likes. No need to legally saddle herself to a suck-up like Tom. It just seems like a weird contrivance. The marriage is a sham anyway, so it’s not like they’re writing a serious, loving partnership in to this thing.
‘If she wasn’t a liberal she’d have never risen to be the sidekick of the biggest liberal Senator in the United States.’Thing is tho, Gil himself proves to be something of a sellout, getting wrapped up in the perks and attention he’s getting from his association with Weystar.I think there was some character revising after the pilot–they clearly toned down Roman, and this week’s tattoo plot feels like the residue of something they had planned for the character [also, of course, he seems to be married in the pilot]. But I don’t see this with Shiv–if anything it’s doing a good job slowly peeling away whatever liberal ideals she had as she gets closer to the job she actually wants.
Whatever happened to Roman’s girlfriend from the underground sex club, the one who’d blown Tom? Tabitha I think? That role seems like a big step down for the actress, after being one of the leads as Libby in “Masters of Sex.”
She didn’t appear at all this season. I’m going to guess it’s because the actress wasn’t available, because in the few times Tabitha was mentioned this season it’s not clear whether she and Roman are still a couple. They seem to be keeping their options open for using her next season.
your point seems to be ‘this character is different than how i perceived them on the pilot’ and, yes, the writing has become more precise and certain traits have risen and others haven’t…you could say that about almost any character on any show. they’re still figuring out who she is, in relation to all the writers, the directors and actors…that’s how tv works.
And that’s also how *Logan* (correctly, I think) reads Shiv working for Gil–it’s her acting out against her father, an attempt to get attention.
I can absolutely see her as the Ronald Reagan Jr. type, where she pretends she’s so disgusted by her father’s politics and policies that she decides to go the other way as a form of rebellion, and becomes a minor celebrity figure in her own right. She has also alluded many times to her being “a mess” when she met Tom, and implies that he “saved her.” How? My guess is, she was never really the black sheep, she just took a political role opposite her father’s views as her way of proving to herself she could be independent, but really she always wanted his approval and love, and the second he offered it to her, she jumped at the chance. In the meantime, she met Tom at some AVN or Waystar function, realized he was the exact type of pushover with an in to the family business that she could manipulate and make her personal lapdog, and that’s right before the timeline of the show starts. Everything her character has gone through since the pilot episodes makes sense, in my opinion.
ATN. She might be comfortable at an AVN function, though.
Very early in the series, they let you know that Shiv is happy to trade on the family name and money. She never really earned any of her places, but she hungers for the respect of people who have earned their place, which makes her try to carve out an area outside of the family business so she can lie to herself about earning her own way. But she was never really outside, she’s the one, if you recall, that shut down Tom’s initial attempt to get ahead of the cruise line scandal. The bogosian thing and marrying the humble Tom were both expert red herrings that reading a plot summary might give you an indication of her character, but if you watch what is actually happening, she’s always been a priviledge conniving asshole, she’s just been more subtle about it.
I get that she’s been a privileged conniving asshole since the show started. That’s exactly why I question picking up her story as she has risen to be the right hand of a the ultimate liberal do-gooder (while being from a Murdoch -like family). Never happen.
Similarly with Tom. We picked her character up already linked to Tom, but everything we’ve seen and learned about her as a person since says she should chew up a wonk like him, let alone MARRY him. I just think rationalizing how that relationship makes sense takes an inordinate amount of character deviations. I think they had this thing ready to go and realized they need an equally strong woman-presence in their toxic stew of a family and they just re-wrote her.
But of course maybe not. I think it’s pretty craptastic character development in that case, but it makes for a better show.
It’s pretty simple, she’s using both of them as cover. I think to the extent the audience is torn about Shiv up front, is that the cover is effective early, but it was always cover. The Bernie Sanders character knows this and Tom’s arc in the first season is him gradually discovering this, and breaking mildly bad.
But she was pretty resistant to marry him in the first place. And the show has mentioned on more than one occasion that she was a “mess” post-college. Look at Tom’s background. Solid Midwest guy from a seemingly upper middle class family. Down to earth enough. Comfortably conservative. Has a wild streak but mostly keeps it checked. I could see where he would seem like a good option, at least as a boyfriend. Which is all he is when the show starts.The problem you’re touching on but not quite hitting is that we only have what the show has told us about Shiv’s past. It could very well make sense without betraying the current characterization. At the end of the day we either need to see some of that backstory or take it on faith.
I don’t know that this is *entirely* true. She does have some political savvy. Not saying the name didn’t work in her favor, just that I don’t think it’s fair to say she didn’t earn her place on those campaigns.
The implication was strong that she was elevated way beyond where her experience would have taken her because she was a roy, but that’s why its a good fit for her. She can tell herself that she earned it, while it being clear to us that she’s a couple of rungs past where she should be.
That’s fair. I just don’t think you can say she ONLY got where she is because of her name.
While we have differing opinions on Sarah Snook’s beauty—I think she’s gorgeous—Shiv has been playing dress-up since season 1. IMO, she couldn’t get her father’s attention playing his game, so she broke out and did something she knew he’d despise. All it took was a call from Daddy, a wardrobe overhaul, and a haircut to turn Shiv from “meek, liberal, do-gooder” into “future media mogul.”
When the show starts she’s not working for Gil. She has liberal political clients but nobody who has any kind of meaningful antagonism towards her father. Signing on with Gil was a big step and she did it partly out of spite.
I wouldn’t be so sure that Greg actually signed that document…we didn’t see that and Tom seemed to be making an assumption based on Greg’s “game plan”. Also, why give us a whole scene with Peter Riegert as Greg’s lawyer if he’s never going to be seen again?
So, if I’m doing my math correctly-ish, Waystar Royco is worth somewhere around $87.5 billion? That’s way more than News Corp, though I guess News Corp doesn’t own theme parks and cruises. That puts Waystar closer to GM or (HEAVY SIGH)… Snapchat.
LOL, I was working that math out as well!Despite all the Murdoch comparisons, I’ve always imagined the actual business of Waystar Royco to be closer to Disney (plus a news network), which has a much higher market cap than tonights episode indicates for Waystar. But if we’re going with the Murdochs as a real-life analog to the Roys, you need to factor in Fox Corporation as well, which is worth even more than News Corp.
what does “plus a news network” mean here? forget about disney owning abc news? I think the disney comparison is right on, just that in succession, the news network they own is more akin to fox than abc, obviously
The ending pissed me off. Roman is really falling off my list of favorites with his chickenshit, c*nt-struck routine. How on earth was it Ken’s fault that Logan refused to admit he needed a breather or a cart? Blame Ken for everything. I was rooting for Logan to stroke out pt. 2. Loved Connor of all people not taking Shiv’s authority seriously. She’s such a turd.
I just don’t see it. Roman and Geri have zero sexual chemistry.
no love for Little Lord Fuckleroy?
Wokestar Fuckleroyco?
Don’t know how this show does it, but they’re able to come up with new takes on uniquely hate-able (rich) dipshits almost every episode. What a talent! They all suck but in unique and realistically horrible ways.
Until we actually see an actor playing Laurie, I’m assuming it’s Timmy Chalamet in Little Women.
I’m with Roman on this … definitely Montgomery Clift
“backchannel in the parking lot”
Honestly do not get all the hype around Geri and Roman.
Could Josh’s seven (eight?) layers of clothing symbolize a man who hides his true agenda? Also, we shouldn’t be so sure to assume that he’s in cahoots with Stewy, just because they hugged on the tarmac. He probably flew Stewy out to “dance” for him, just like the Roys.
This was my favourite episode of the season so far. All those heavy silences when Logan and Kendall were left alone… Shiv’s “stamping of the letters”… Roman and Gerri’s weird relationship… Loved it all.
maybe its just me but feels like the story has not progressed at all since the first episode…and the one thing that did happen (the FBI raid) was totally ignored in this episode.
Highlights:-The extended silences between Kendall and Logan. -Wokeahontas -Kendall calling out Logan for his “bagel” comment.-Adrian Brody’s faux casual regular guy act.
Agreed. Add: Tom completely losing it in Greg’s office.
The Tom + Greg scene was so good that it overshadowed several subsequent scenes for me. Within seconds Macfadyen deftly went from comedic interplay, to desperation, to asserting dominance, to completely pathetic, broken and somewhat heatbreaking. It’s often difficult to maintain consistentcy in tone in a series that oscillates between comedy and drama quite frequently (first few eps of season one had this issue but found its footing quickly), but that Greg/Tom scence masterfully blended these all these elements. I was so blown away by the scene – the other standout being the silent, palpable tension between Logan and Kendall when first left alone by Brody’s character.
Can someone please explain to me what Tom meant about castrating Greg? Was he expressing affection? I didn’t get the underlying meaning.