If you read Savage Love or any other progressive, sex-positive advice column, you’ll occasionally come across comments from people who worry that they’re not sufficiently open-minded enough because they aren’t interested in participating in some sexual or role play act their partner, partners or sex squad wants to perform. While the puritanical sludge this country evolved from still makes it much more likely that a person will be shamed for enjoying sex at all, there is a flip side where a person feels they must engage in any and all esoteric kinks, lest they come across as uptight. In the homicidal robot and iPhone message history-enhanced holographic program dating world of the future, apparently that fear of not being expansive enough to let people just do, like, whatever, must be much more prominent, because it’s the only reason I can think of why the moment Ed essentially told Kelly halfway through tonight’s episode that either she try and make their relationship work again or he’ll just go ahead and date her time and space-travelling younger self, she didn’t just tell him to fuck right off.
Tonight’s episode, “Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow” was a baffling combination of thoughtful, well-considered character moments and egregious emotional manipulation. It was like watching a group of friends who you know are very smart, but are involved in a relationship that’s so bad and so all-encompassing, they can’t even see the shape of it. Everyone was making dubious choices, and if those choices were called into question at all, it was for some tangential reason that didn’t even touch on how coercive it is for your ex-husband to date your past self. One thing I’m grateful for is through the entire episode current Kelly never wavered once —she’s not interested in getting back together with Ed, and reconciliation isn’t an option. He’s been pushing for it for quite a while, but Kelly appears to only have grown more resolute in her feelings that they had their time, they work better together as friends, and it’s a bad idea for the captain and commander to be in a relationship. And since as a viewer I’m in complete agreement with Kelly about all those things, I really hope this is the episode that lay that uncertainty to rest. And if unsuccessfully hooking up with your former lover’s former self can’t do that, who knows what can?
The whole mess starts out, as these things do, with Isaac and John tinkering around with their theoretical time travel cone. Kelly arrives to send John off on a task, just in time for the ship to be hit by a massive gravitational wave. This coincided with Kelly thinking about her first date with Ed, which created some sort of quantum bond with the machine’s disrupted field. The result pulled a younger, bangs-having Kelly onto the ship. After they circle each other in the requisite suspicious body double fashion, young Kelly is sent to med bay to make sure everything is okay. It’s quickly established that, yes, this is definitely Kelly from seven years ago, and no, there’s no easy way to send her back. So then it becomes a question of what to do with the stranded time traveler. Ed agrees to fold young Kelly into the crew and she begins to get comfortable and start making friends with the rest of the crew, which is totally reasonable until they can get back to Earth. It causes a bit of initial conflict when Kelly asks young Kelly to kindly refrain from sharing stories of running around hijacked shuttle bays in her underwear. And really, Kelly’s concern about losing control over her autonomy and compromising her relationship with the crew are perfectly reasonable. And this is where it starts getting bizarre. Young Kelly concedes, but then suggests she’s thinking of applying for a post on the Orville. Which, I cannot imagine being received with any response other than universal agreement that would be a terrible decision. The most minor conflict that would emerge from having two identical people, but with different goals and obligations would be stories that you don’t want told getting out. And if that’s already happened, it’s hard to imagine it would get any better.
Which it doesn’t. Young Kelly finds out Ed and Kelly were married and now divorced. For young Kelly, her courtship with Ed is fresh enough that she’s still curious to see where it goes. Ed is still so hell bent on trying to get back together with Kelly, he’s willing to date her vulnerable, time-travelling doppelgänger just to try and force the outcome. I honestly don’t see how that could be accepted as anything other than a massive violation. There’s a power, knowledge, and experience imbalance between Ed and young Kelly, as well as how gross it was of him to lay down an ultimatum to Kelly that it was either her, or the other her.
But sprinkled among the queasy relationship dynamic were some very fun observations about coming face to face with your younger self and how that will also oblige you to reflect on the person you’ve become. Kelly’s observation that “everyone has to make peace with the fact they used to be dumber,” is spot on, but, as she adds, “but they don’t have to look that proof in the face.” Old Kelly finds it tough being around her louder, more strident younger self; and young Kelly finds Kelly’s life to be a series of compromises and failed potential. Kelly goes and enjoys a glass of rainbow liquid (or regular liquid in a rainbow glass) with Dr. Claire to discuss how the simple act of living life will naturally shift the nature and proximity of the goals set when you were younger, and young Kelly goes off to seduce Ed and his truly ugly pajama shirt.
The imminent encounter with two Kaylon warships brings the whole crew to the bridge. Young Kelly has the idea to hide the ship among a planet’s ice rings and shrouding themselves in frost to prevent the Kaylons from tracking them. It’s a gorgeous scene as the ship flies among the glassy chunks of pale green and blue ice chunks, and it’s especially lovely as the crew watches a Kaylon sphere fly by through the frost-encrusted viewing window. Crisis behind them, Kelly realizes she’s being too hard on young Kelly, young Kelly realizes Kelly’s job is tougher than she gave credit for, and Ed decides to stop dating young Kelly —not because it’s super-creepy— but because it’s not new for him in the same way it is for her. Also he doesn’t like night clubs. Good timing all around, because John and Isaac announce they may be able to send Kelly back.
Throughout the episode, the crew discussed if young Kelly’s predicament splintered the timeline or not. They’re uncertain about the combination of experimental time travel and memory wipes, but young Kelly argues that it will work because it did work, and confidently submits to being sent home again without her memories of the time aboard the Orville. Her certainty that this has all already happened makes the final scene’s twist simple but effective. Ed calls for a second date, and unlike the original timeline, Kelly tells him she just doesn’t think it will work between them. It’s a small thing, and who knows what, if anything, this means for original timeline Ed and Kelly, but it was an intriguing end to an inconsistent episode.
Stray Observations
- Fashion Corner: Boy there were a lot of rough looks tonight. Ed’s aforementioned pajama shirt, young Kelly’s belted leather tunic with the double row of brass studs and basically everyone’s club look. I did like the scrunchy scoop-neck powder blue sweater young Kelly wore immediately after she came aboard the ship, though.
- I do love the banter Ed and Kelly share. Not just from a story line perspective, but also due to their chemistry. It’s true the two just work better as friends. The overlapping snippets of conversation as they try and explain their divorce to young Kelly yielded some hilarious tidbits: “That’s kind of a textural thing.”
- It was nice seeing Bortus and Klyden having a good time at the dance club for a change.
- “Isaac, are you certain this will work?” “Not at all, Doctor.”
220 Comments
This episode was very enjoyable! I kept thinking this episode was written by Seth MacFarlane (great writer, clueless about women) throughout, but I checked IMDB and it appears otherwise.I especially enjoyed how younger Kelly and older Kelly showed great rapport and respect. Can’t wait to see where it goes next episode, the timeline’s been altered for sure.
It was more enjoyable when it was called Second Chances and it was Jonathan Franks who had to play double.
In Star Trek: TNG terms this episode was “Second Chances” with a tiny bit of “Remember Me” and a dash of “Yesterday’s Enterprise”.I’m OK with this
You just wrote a The Orville script. Good job.
It was very much a “Second Chances” in the reverse, but I’m fine with it as well, extremely solid episode
I know there has to be an economy of dialogue, so every angle of an issue can’t get full coverage. But if Current Kelly had just decided that “boom” she has a younger sister, and the two had continued on like that… then Ed’s dating ultimatum becomes “date me or I’m going to go out with your younger sister.” It still comes off as creepy. I wasn’t digging on Ed’s kissing skills. I was, however, impressed with Palicki’s body language change as Young Kelly. Just walking down the hallway – she had the seven-years-younger moves down.
Yeah, just like the reviewer noted, that part of the narrative was creepy AF, and showed superficiality from the writer(s), imo. Can you imagine if Kelly encountered Ed from 7 years ago and…. ohhh… Tom Riker from Second Chances! I stand corrected.Great acting skills from Palicki for sure, respect.
She’s low-key become the best actor on the show, other than maybe Penny Jerald Johnson.
Love her on DS9, Castle, and Orville… she’s fantastic. Now wondering: what else did Penny Jerald Johnson do, that I missed?
The Larry Sanders Show!
The Larry Sanders Show is something I haven’t watched, and it seems I missed out on something pretty special. It’s probably streamable somewhere, thanks!
It’s really great. I recently started a rewatch of the series, and while the fashion doesn’t hold up, pretty much everything else does.And Penny Johnson Jerald is terrific on it, of course.
It’s all on HBO you should definitely give it a try. It’s very funny, and it’s hard to understate how influential it was on modern sitcoms.
I’ll always know her from 24.
She was the evil wife of David Palmer in 24.
Oh yes! I remember her on 24 now… I think I blocked it out, her character was a terrible person.
PGJ was awesome on 24.
Yeah I thought of her as that over DS9 for a few years, but now I think of her as Cassidy again, lol.
She had a recurring role on Supernatural as a demon. Beyond that, IMDB is my Oracle.
I thought she was known more for being on 24 for several seasons.
She was in Deep Space 9!
The first two or three seasons of 24 as well.
She played Lady MacBeth on 24.
24
24
24, of course. The First Lady.
I first noticed her on the first few seasons of 24. She and her character were quite memorable.
24 as the President’s scheming Lady Macbeth-like First Lady.
I know her from 24, as the First Lady in early seasons
I see you base acting skills on bra size
Really? I thought Palicki absolutely owned her (and everyone else FTM) but particularly Johnson. I just don’t “get” Johnson’s acting method . It’s as wooden as Seth every time he casts a new young crew member.
She’s supposed to appear reserved and poised. That’s what it looks like she’s always going for, to me.
Palicki was great at playing two very different characters, but they were supposed to be the same character! Jimmy McGill and Saul Goodman have more in common than the two Kellys.
To me, it was as though the 2 Kellys had at least 12 years’ age difference, not 7. But that’s more due to the writers and stylists, not the actor.
I’d like think that Kelly took stock of her look once she realized that it could be a hindrance to her career and went for a more professional appearance sometime after she met Ed.
Oh like Clair with the Hair. In that one episode of Peep Show.
^This.The writing said 7 yrs, but everything about the situation and the character on screen made more sense at 12, or even 9, years.
The way young Kelly was acting made it seem like there was more than a 7 year difference as well. Kelly is in her mid 30’s, right? Young Kelley had the maturity of someone in their early 20’s.
Why is it creepy? They were both in their mid-twenties when they started dating. He’s 7 years older. He’s clearly still in love with her. What exactly makes him wanting to date the version of the woman he loves that still sees him as a possibility is creepy? It gives him the option to fix all the times he didn’t spend time with her. Note: There was never any infidelity on his part.
The situation is understandable, as it was in Second Chances. The creep factor is that it’s disrespectful and awkward AF. Still, it was fun fiction.I thought YK asking for a post on the Orville was creepier than Ed dating YK (which was at her request).
I don’t really get the “creepy”take on it either….like you said it’s 7 years, not 15 or 20. It’s definitely weird, but it does make sense from what we know of his character.
It’s not creepy that he wants to go back and fix his mistakes, but it would be creepy if he pursued it, because he’d be taking advantage of an inherently unbalanced situation. He knows her future and she doesn’t. She’s just meeting him and in some ways he knows her better than she does. obviously the specific circumstances of her life will be different, but he knows her personality and how it changes as she grows older and matures. That creates an inherent power imbalance between the two of them.
Oh yeah I immediately turned to my wife and asked if she remembered Thomas Riker. She did. The shocking thing about THAT episode was that they didn’t kill him off. They even set it up to confirm what everyone suspected would happen, and then flipped the script on us.
Palicki deserves a better show.
With Fox and Disney in cahoots, you wonder if Mockingbird is back on the table.
That was really really creepy Ed deciding to date young Kelly. That kiss was just gross. Then by the end his apology before the mind wipe showing his own growth. It was also the opposite of gross and instead was amazingly touching apologizing to both the past and present Kelly in such a way. This was a crazy interesting episode. Now answer me this, did Isaac do this on purpose because he’s still helping the Kaylon? I don’t think so but it’s pretty interesting to wonder.
Interesting. Issac further messing around with time travel could spin this series in a truly weird direction.
I dunno…if MacFarlane goes that way, it may just be Isaac attempting to go back in time to help the Kaylon understand organic life so they never turn hostile, like he spent 700 years out of phase helping that civilization from season 1 pull itself out of its Kelly-inspired dark age. The problem is, no hostile Kaylon means no possibility of peace with the Krill, and relations with the Moclans break down over their gender persecution. Considering what was said in the episode previous about it, non-hostile Kaylon means the Union suddenly finds itself on the back foot in a war against a Krill/Moclan alliance which bodes ill for everyone, since non-hostile Kaylon means no super-advanced Kaylon fleet.That’d be the cruelest knife-twist to Isaac of all…the only real hope of long-term peace between organic civilizations hinges on his own people being omnicidal maniacs.
Even Palicki’s vocal range was slightly different. I spent a long time thinking “Damn, this actress is a lot like Adrianne Palicki!”
She took it seriously.
Seeing her walk down the hallway in normal clothes, I wanted to feed her many cheeseburgers. Call it a personal failing.
the captain should have revenge banged the younger kelly every night. then he could throw it in the face of the kelly in his timeline how much better the younger version is. its not like the past kelly would remember after being sent back in time with her memories wiped.
Congrats to Yaphit & Bortus & Khlyden on have some dance moves.Ed dating Young Kelly was very creepy so I’m glad it didn’t really go anywhere. I don’t think the end twist will really go anywhere but I guess we’ll see.
They have been pretty good about making things stick. I bet it causes trouble in the future – which I guess would have to be next week since that is the season finale and who knows if Disney will renew it.
Didn’t it turn out that she’d basically be in the same timeline? I’m curious to see how they write that into the show; and you have to wonder if Ed and Kelly will start dating now that they’ve never been married.
They speculated that she was. It was never really confirmed.
It could completely remove Ed from the show since he never married her. He never was devestated by her cheating on him and never fell into a funk that destroyed his career and got him stuck on the Orville as a last chance command thing.
Disney doesn’t have a say in the matter. They don’t own the channel.
Nonsense. Disney owns everything.Seriously though, it is hard to keep track of what parts of FOX they didn’t buy and it is still true that season 3 has not been announced yet.
If I understand it correctly, Disney bought 20th Century Fox (which owns and produces The Orville), but not the FOX network (which buys the show). Now that it’s an independent company, FOX is reportedly re-orienting itself towards sports and adult animation. I’d welcome a third season of The Orville, but I’m not sure it’ll stick around given that it isn’t exactly a ratings or critical darling.
My hope is that, based on the guest stars, every actor in Hollywood seems to want to be on it and maybe that will count for something.
It worked for 30 Rock
You underestimate the incriminating nature of the photos Seth MacFarlane has in his possession.
Seth still makes the production company a bunch of money and they still want to keep him happy, because many suspect he only still does Family Guy as leverage to do the things he really wants to do, like Orville and Cosmos.
Young Kelly has changed the timeline, so I’m fairly certain they’ll have to address why the future is different.I imagine Kelly will be the Captain of the Orville in the new future
An alternate future, I suspect.
Oh it’s going somewhere, the synapses of next weeks episode is “The crew must contend with the disastrous fallout from Kelly’s decision.”
Synopsis. (I normally try to avoid being ‘that guy,’ but I couldn’t help myself this time.)
eh. I don’t care, haven’t had my full take of coffee yet.
You’ve got great synapses, Elf!
My synapses is your a stupid shit tart
*You’re. Always defeats the purpose of calling someone stupid when you yourself don’t even know the difference between your and you’re. Good job of making yourself look like an idiot.
Oof. Kinda defeats the purpose of calling someone stupid when you don’t know the difference between “your” and “you’re”. Way to make yourself look like a complete idiot!
Could you have meant “synOPses?” Unless you think it’ll take a lot of NERVES to watch the next episode. (I know, damned spell check backfire.)
I did, someone else already corrected me. As I told them, my coffee intake wasn’t complete yet.
Hear you there!!
The next episode is called “The Road Not Taken”.
I guess next episode might make me an idiot, but I thought the twist at the end (very cool, agreed) just gave the audience the info that the crew will never have: it’s all timeline splits, all the way.This is the easy way out for the writers going forward, and for once, I don’t mean that as an insult. When it comes to time travel and writing fiction, there’s no shame in taking the easy path and sticking with it. Hell, it’s a live debate whether introducing time travel *at all* is intentionally, stupidly, and unnecessarily choosing a harder path than you need to from the get-go.One of the reasons I’m so confident making this post is that the episode itself was constantly nudging the fourth wall and talking to the audience about exactly that. Time travel is a problem nobody wants to deal with. Obviously the writers can never stick it in their own eye quite enough (because they deserve it, completely,) but that sensibility still leaked through the screen.
But, like I said, the writers could go the other way and perform a high-difficulty maneuver with the rest of the series, shocking the audience with an abrupt timeline alteration starting next episode. In theory, if they fully commit, they could still pull it off and have it be fairly impressive. But the difficulty would be way higher. They’d need to nigh-instantly convince the audience of the full plausibility of the altered timeline; in this particular situation – a relatively low-budget serialized TV series – the most common failure point is that the writers won’t have the resources behind them to make the altered timeline different *enough.* How many permanent casting changes would they be allowed to dictate?I mean, hell, if we’re talking balls-to-the-wall, go-down-in-TV-history stunts, then this is Seth McFarlane’s last episode on the show, or at least his last episode as a starring role and captain of the Orville.Okay I need to stop now because I’m actually starting to talk myself into wanting this, purely for meta “history of TV” reasons.Incidentally, of all the shows I’ve ever watched, I’d say Fringe came closest to pulling off something like this… and to be honest, it still wasn’t even close.
Yeah, I think this was supposed to be Alt.Kelly all along…. the twist is that she’s plucked from her timeline to experience an outcome that didn’t happen.
YYeah, because we never saw any insignias on young Kelly, and we know Seth loves the tropes of Trek, I was wondering Mirror Universe?
Spoiler Alert: You should note in the preview to the Season Finale that it shows a ship, looking like the Orville, exploding.If not a spoiler for the next episode being an alternate timeline, at least it provided massive motivation to watch next week and see what happens.
Okay. I’ll say it… SOMEONE has too…DAMMIT BARRY!
LOL, we actually yelled this at the screen when she tells Ed she doesn’t think it’s going to work out with them at the end.
Ed could still be the Captain of the Orville, but wasn’t Kelly offered that position on a different ship in the first season? They might not wind up on the same ship together, or maybe Mercer didn’t rise to Captain without Kelly’s support.
I actually think this is going to be the origin of The Orville’s version of the Mirror Universe. We’ll get alternate timeline version of everyone where this one event caused things to go horribly wrong across the board. I can see a Dark Kelly captaining a different version of the Orville in a war torn version of the Galaxy.
It’s certainly possible, and nobody really has to “go dark” except as a natural response to a much darker timeline.
The series has staked out the usual, somewhat-implausible Star Trek conceit that *this ship* and *this crew* are a truly insane convergence point of important, galaxy-shaping stuff on a regular basis. I suppose it was inevitable, and not just because of the show’s clear influences. It’s writer and storyteller catnip, and bitches (read: us, the audience) love it too, and get grumpy when somebody tries to remind us that it’s silly.The whole “dick’n’fart future” angle that was played up in the beginning of the series actually dangled the hope that some other subversions would occur – like, for example, not having The Orville be the aforementioned insane convergence point of history, and not having Mercer end up being Alliance Paragon Jesus Galactic Diplomat.Alas: it did, and it was, and he was, so any adjustment to that timeline quite plausibly sends the Alliance (and possibly all organic life) into a nightmare scenario.
Now you have me thinking. Could this be the memory wipe didn’t work and young Kelly decided the following. – no 5 years of good and bad with Ed – become a captain – be more connected to her crew – somehow be more happy – not to mention maybe fix other stuff.Then we’re coming back next week to a big change?
See DC Legends of Tomorrow and the Flash. Timeline changes take time to roll outwards. Or at least that’s the theory. And in a very real sense it makes sense. An instantaneous change in the timeline would violate the first law of entropy. But seeing timeline changes as a cascading reaction of outward moving tachyons from a central locus, a la Babylon5, makes perfect sense.
Wow! So its the Orville that presses the big reset button. Well, they’ve done enough damage I guess that really needs to be corrected.
I didn’t read Ed’s conversation with Old Kelly about dating Young Kelly as an ultimatum. He didn’t say “date me or I’ll date her,” it was more like he was asking permission, with the qualification that if she had any intentions of getting back together he wouldn’t do it.On the other hand, his “I’ve already done this” breakup with YK was clueless as hell.
with the qualification that if she had any intentions of getting back together he wouldn’t do it.Which is emotional blackmail and very much an ultimatum
I feel like it’s more textured than that, given the unique circumstance, but I respect your reaction.Also, Ed’s a weird kisser.
That was kissing? I assumed he was trying to inflate/eat her
Emotional blackmail? Really? Ed is not saying “repair our marriage now or else.” He is not being abusive. He is simply wanting to respect the older Kelly’s feelings. If she says it’s not over, he will not pursue things because he doesn’t think it’s over. He is not in a position of power. She is. She is not the victim. He is. So your emotional blackmail theory holds no water.
Agree on the breakup.
Yeah, I really don’t get where people are getting that interpretation, it read solely as him making sure she wouldn’t be too weirded out by him dating her younger self.
Is this the first Orville episode to use a Shakespeare quote for a title, a la Classic Trek?
No, the title of the first season finale “Mad Idolatry” comes from a Troilus and Cressida line. Other episode titles have quoted from other sources besides Shakespeare (George Harrison, Thomas Jefferson, The King and I, etc.). Speaking of this episode’s title, the Tomorrow speech from Macbeth is basically Macbeth’s death speech, in which he emphasizes the meaninglessness of existence after he hears about his wife’s death. I know it plays into the time travel aspect of this episode, but it brings a downer vibe to the episode, too.
“Mad Idolatry” is from Troilus and Cressida.
I didn’t hate Klyden this episode.
He went almost a whole minute without being an asshole.
It’s like the episode where he and Bortus get addicted to cigarettes, or the one where Bortus grows a mustache. It’s weird to see him be funny in a b-plot or background gag when he’s a complete bastard whenever he’s part of the a-plot.
It’s like the episode where he and Bortus get addicted to cigarettes, or the one where Bortus grows a mustache. It’s weird to see him be funny in a b-plot or background gag when he’s a complete bastard whenever he’s part of the a-plot.
Bortus and Klyden are funny when they’re riffing on married couple sitcom tropes (their nic-fit fueled bickering a couple of weeks ago was hilarious IMO). When their relationship is the subject of serious plotlines they’re pretty much both intolerable.
Hot take: Klyden is the Keiko O’Brien of The Orville. As a person, it’s pretty clear he is struggling with a life in space he really doesn’t want and taking out those frustrations on his spouse, and as a character on a TV show his purpose is solely to throw complications at Bortus and exemplify all the “bigoted Moclan” cultural traits so we don’t have to feel ambivalent about a member of the main cast.But The Orville’s writers don’t seem to know how to write a marriage (a romantic relationship in general, really) that isn’t doomed or irreparably screwed up, so Bortus & Klyden have no obvious reason to be together, unlike Miles & Keiko, who had their struggles but were still (however inexplicably at times) a love match. Bortus and Klyden have lighter moments together, but fundamentally there is no perceivable warmth to their interactions. They badly need a divorce, with or without a stabbing.
“Bortus & Klyden have no obvious reason to be together, unlike Miles & Keiko, who had their struggles but were still (however inexplicably at times) a love match.”Actually, there’s a long line of scenes where Miles and Keiko, like Bortus and Klyden, seem to know nothing about each other and don’t related to each other despite being married
Klyden is on more like a racist, bigotted Keiko at best. Or a Wesley Crusher if Wesley were just a regular person and not the wunderkind.
I might be in the minority but I thought a Million ways to die in the West was kind of sweet. In addition, half the episodes have been romance based so its hard to say the Orville writing staff is completely failing at romance.The Keiko O’Brien analogy is brilliant but Keiko got along really well with the crew and served as teacher in the station. Klyden is dead weight to the crew and actively avoids them as the last episode pointed out. Its a bit baffling in-universe. Out of universe, it at least allows MacFarlane and crew a chance to provide some (imo) effective social commentary on cultural relativism verse absolute right and wrong which I had no idea would still be effective two seasons in
They’re trying to write about romance, sure. But can you name a romantic pairing that’s been written about so far that doesn’t fit into my two categories of “doomed” (Dr. Finn/Isaac, Gordon/hologram girl, either Xelayan/anybody) or “irreparably screwed up” (Bortus/Klyden, Ed/Kelly)? The closest we’ve come to the mark from where I sit is Ed’s complicated feelings for the Krill woman — who, let’s be clear, became a deep-cover intelligence operative after Ed killed (almost) everybody aboard the ship where she previously worked as a teacher in order to be revenged upon him— and that cup of tea is going to have to brew for a looooong time to be in any way believable, if they choose to move it forward.
I find that Bortus/Klyden scenes make more sense if I think that they were an arranged marriage and that they first met when they got married.
It cracked me up because OF COURSE the two gay aliens are the ones tearing up the floor at da club!
This episode’s ending is quite an interesting cliffhanger. Either Young Kelly is from a different timeline so nothing will change for us, or she is not and a ton should change.
Didn’t Isaac say that the temporal device was supposed to interact with biological and artificial intelligent life? Isaac was standing as close to the device as Kelly was when the gravitational wave hit. Is there another Isaac out there somewhere now?
There were some nice emotional moments for Adrianne Palicki in this episode, like when The Commander told her younger self that nothing Young Kelly did would have any effect on the future and when Kelly the Younger scolded The Commander for not achieving a single one of their life goals.
I like the episode. From the Shakespeare title to the Palicki’s acting.
This episode did what all good science fiction TV shows have done. It make you think about your place in space and time.
If I am pondering big questions after seeing a TV show. That is a win!
How is this show not getting consistently better reviews than Discovery? Unlike Discovery, people seem to actually give a shit about the characters and talk about them. When I watched the first season of Discovery I really wanted to like it, but I found myself getting more and more disappointed. I don’t care about any of the show’s characters—not a one. The Orville on the other-hand I thought would be a frat boy bag of shit, but I ending up loving it. The treky writing is fantastic, especially given that they’re not even doing a serious show.I would get into more detail about my specific points, but I’m realizing it’s 10AM, I’m drinking wine, and I’m leaving comments about a TV show–I seriously need to reconsider the priorities in my life.
I think (and I know I’m not alone with this) that Discovery was written with a different audience in mind. I too, started to watch it, but kind of tuned out of it at some point because I just wasn’t caring. I always liked ST (except maybe Enterprise), because even when it was quite uneven from a writting perspective (Voyager) they still make you care about the characters (most of them), at least just enough to make you want to continue watching.I see Discovery as a Sci-Fi series aimed at a different, probably younger generation, that may not be looking for the same thing in their sci-fi shows. Not a bad show, but just one aiming for a different thing. Which wasn’t my thing.
Most people I know that loved ST back in the days prefer The Orville now, mostly because it is set in the same Sci-Fi tradition as the old Trek was, that is an “optimist” future, with a planetary union/federation, showing something we could be looking up to. But like someone else said, ST was mostly about perfect people living in a perfect future. The Orville is about normal people living in that perfect future. This is different.I didn’t expect a lot when I started watching this series. But I liked it enough to continue watching, and it eventually became my current favorite sci-fi show.
Dr. Claire: “This procedure may cause brain damage.”Young Kelly: “Old me is ok, so it will be fine.”Nobody then points out that there is a high probability that she comes from a alternative time so safety is very much not guaranteed. Young Kelly (in the past): Herp durble wurble.
As always, it’s male wish-fulfillment. I’d be much more interested seeing younger Ed arriving and Kelly having all of his character work. She had her own, granted, but it’s still very gender-standard storytelling.And yes, he’s creepy as fuck.
Gender-standard storytelling: Pandering to the 90%!
Where’s your data coming from again?
97.4% men and 97.7% of women claim heterosexual orientation. If you count the number of people in the crew and the number of aliens on board, I think you’ll find this proportion is maintained relatively speaking and homosexual orientation does not exclude anyone from holding rank in the Orville.
“Gender-standard” is not even remotely the same as “heterosexual-standard”. God, how lame and not knowing anything are you?
So male wish fulfillment is bad but…Twilight and 60 shades is good?
You probably think so, right? Notice how both franchises aimed at female audience were both derided from the get-go, never really earning a title of “stupid fun”, which many male-aimed movies and shows get despite being technically not really good.That is not to say that as art either franchise you mentioned has anything to say, but their existence, in itself, is not “bad”. They just could’ve been better.And no, you’re not being provocative and you don’t have anything to say either.
Twilight was just plain bad acting around a bad story adaptation of a great set of books.
Fifty shades – that’s exposing the underbelly of the sexual revolution and bringing the fringe aspects of human sexuality to the fore. But it doesn’t make it the norm.Fifty shades probably didn’t have the scope to provide the character development required for someone to understand the journey properly in movie-format.
Just like Red Sparrow – if you read the book, it’s entirely different. Red Sparrow, the book is a love story set in the world’s worst nightmare of a situation and how humanity prevails even at the cost of emotional vulnerability. Red Sparrow, the movie is about an woman in an abusive situation and her escape and how she’s sexually manipulated and used.Twilight the books and Fifty Shades the books – yes. The movies – not so much.
Ooh, you just devalued your opinion majorly by saying that Fifty Shades the books are any good.Also it’s not anything resembling a sexual revolution. Actual revolutionists laugh at those books’ amateur and naive vision of BDSM.
Wasn’t Fifty Shades Twilight fan fiction where they made her change all the names?
We also had this in TNG Second Chances with Riker and Troi
Ed would have preferred to make things work with Cmdr Kelly even though she cheated on him. Where exactly is the male wish-fulfillment here? Wouldn’t that involve him NOT wanting things to work with Cmdr Kelly? And yet, she’s the one that keeps saying no. Even though she’s the one that cheated on him. Not spending time is something you can correct. Cheating is not. If anything, it’s the human desire to repair what was broken through any means necessary even if it means starting over. This storyline would have worked either way. IF Kelly had wanted things to work out. In reverse, this Kelly would have rejected the younger Ed right away.
A wish that turns out badly isn’t wish-fulfillment.
If The Orville comes back for Season 3 – which still seems dicey at the moment, as Fox is seriously delaying the renewal announcement – I would really like them to add an HR rep to the ship, because my God do they need one. Yes, Ed dropping the ‘get back together with me or I’ll just date your younger, time-displaced self’ ultimatum was out of line. Ed using a shuttle to spy on Kelly and Cassius was out of line. Many things the crew has done, while funny, have been out of line, if I’m honest, Ed’s behavior towards Kelly is especially egregious. Does the Union not have HR, or a JAG office, or anyone else to handle sexual harassment complaints?It’s disappointing, because Seth McFarlane’s reverence towards Star Trek comes through in a lot of ways and generally makes the show very much worth watching, but when it comes to Ed and Kelly, he really McFarlanes it up. Star Trek itself may have had the odd mildly inappropriate romance, but you didn’t see Jean-Luc Picard using a shuttlepod to spy on Beverly Crusher and Ambassador Odan, or — okay, yes, Troi DID sort of romance the transporter accident clone of Will Riker, but he was pursuing her, it didn’t last, and she didn’t drop an ultimatum on First Officer Riker.I peeked ahead at the description for next week’s episode, and between that and the brief glimpse of the two Kellys interacting again in the trailer for the season finale, I’m fairly confident that young Kelly’s choice is going to mess up the timeline and not-as-young Kelly is going to have to go fix it. Not sure that’s the best basis for a season finale, but maybe the show will surprise me. Honestly, I hope Fox does renew the series, because I think The Orville and Star Trek: Discovery are in very similar places – they’re still young Star Trek shows (even if The Orville isn’t OFFICIALLY a Star Trek series, it’s basically a Star Trek series), and the first couple of seasons are always rough. They both, however, show glimmers of promise, and I believe they deserve the chance to improve. Last week’s Moclan episode, for all that I’m generally tired of Moclans, showed what The Orville can be when everything comes together, and I’m willing to forgive the odd misstep.Still, though: the Orville needs HR stat.
On a ship, HR is handled by the executive officer. However, Grayson is only only the XO and the putative victim of the harassment but also the person that got Mercer the job in the first place. That’s a three-way conflict of interest.
Yeah, see, if this were actually TNG, I’d probably expect Troi to handle a situation like this, but then, Captain Mercer would probably hit on the ship’s counselor, too. Honestly, Seth, didn’t Star Trek teach you that it’s a bad idea for a captain to romance ANYONE under their command, let alone harass them? There was a whole TNG episode about this!
I enjoyed the well written review of the Orville, as I always do. But I am struggling with the central premise of it, which seems to be that Ed’s bad actions make this outing “erratic” or uneven. On the contrary, I think the way Ed Mercer is being written is really consistent across episodes.It is undeniable that the way that the Captain reacted to this undeniably awkward situation was highly inappropriate. But he has been inappropriate about all things Kelly since the end of last season when she put an end to the new try at romance. The show has shown him drinking too much, staring at pictures of her when he is supposed to be working, trying to stay busy so he doesn’t go crazy, and doing a shuttle drive by (which was very funny-”No way!”-but also pretty immature and creepy. Mercer always seems to grow a little at the end of these episodes so we don’t loathe him, but he has been acting pretty badly for a while now.He is hurt, and lonely, and consumed with guilt about his part in the destruction of the marriage. And he is clearly not handling it well. These are not excuses for bad behavior, but this is the story the show is telling. Just because our protagonist is acting badly doesn’t make it bad story telling if they go somewhere with it.The thing is, this would be a big problem if we were supposed to take Ed’s side in all this, but I think it is clear we are not. Kelly has always been portrayed as the adult in the room when it comes to this relationship (Ed: “I adore you with the heat of all the stars my darling!” Kelly: “People could die, Ed.”) I think the show has done just enough to keep Mercer sympathetic and growing, but I think it has been made clear that this is bad behavior on behalf of the Captain. And, if next episode is any indication, there will be consequences. Star Trek The Next Generation is one of my all time favorite shows, but it was about perfect people in a perfect future (a “Pegasus” or two not withstanding). It was a great optimistic view of where humanity could go. But the Orville is different in that the flaws of the crew are on full display. I mean, Orville “Data” just tried to help take over the world before having a change of “heart”, and we are still cool letting him on the bridge. I am perfectly fine with the story possibilities generated by a crew of flawed humans, including Ed. He appears to be a guy with good intentions who absolutely does not know how to handle things with his ex-wife in an appropriate way. I am fine with seeing where that goes, as long as the show continues to make sure we know that Ed is in the wrong here.But one thing that cannot be said is that this storyline has been erratic. They have been building to it for a year.
Seth McFarlane is a terrible screen actor. It brings a relatively mediocre show down to the level of trite garbage.
i have an honest question for you. you seem to really dislike this show, so why keep watching? you not only waste time on something you find unpleasant, you then waste even more time commenting on just HOW unpleasant you find it. i’d get it, if it were only a couple episodes but for 2 seasons?
It is like you’ve never heard of hate watching. Try it. It is fun.
IMHO, Ed represents the average “straight, white, western male of the late 2010’s”. Not a closed minded idiot. Not a misogynistic pig. Just a well meaning, but deeply flawed human who is (as you mentioned) constantly learning from his mistakes. He’s sort of the conduit for most of the stories, but I don’t think of him as “the main character”. I love how his failings allow a lot of the writing to branch out (Props to all the ST-TNG alumni who work on the show). The writing on this show in general has been beyond impressive. I absolutely adore how maturely the writers handle interpersonal relationships. This is by far, the best thing Seth has ever produced.
Second Chances in TNG did this with Riker and Troi. The difference was they never married but did have feelings. Current Riker did not object to his other version dating Troi. It didn’t work out but I don’t remember people having issues with that.(Maybe there were, there was no internet at the time for everyone to post their opinion so who knows)
I would disagree. He was not inappropriate like he would have been at the beginning of the Orville. At the beginning, he would not have asked Cmdr Kelly how she felt. He would not have thought through the repercussions of his actions. If anything, he shows a much more mature sense of decorum than he did when Kelly started dating Cassius.
everything Ed did in this episode did feel very on brand, in a weird way hes a bit like Picard, hes clearly good at his job, but his personal live is a bit of a disaster, the crew of the Orville all seem to have very real flaws that make them a lot more relatable than your average perfect future humans in most sci fi, it feels a bit like Babylon 5 in that sense that space travel doesnt mean humans are suddenly not flawed anymore
Besides this character arc, they did mention in the episode his lack of game a couple times, “game” being certain social skills specifically related to dating/romance/dealing with the other sex.
Everyone forgets that the pilot explicitly made the point that Mercer only got the post because they had more ships than competent captains, and that a later episode explicitly makes the point that while Grayson didn’t have the seniority to be promoted to captain herself she had enough pull to name her captain.At some point Grayson is going to get her promotion and then the admiralty is going to have to decide if they are still short enough on captains that they need to keep Mercer around.(They would of course not directly replace Mercer with Grayson on the Orville. I figure they’d send Grayson to another ship and that captain takes over the Orville, possibly by offering Mercer a rear-admiral at half pay reserve position like at a backwater consulate. The gag would be there’s some reason Mercer takes over without authority so he can get busted back down to captain like Kirk in TSfS but gets the Orville back.)
He is hurt, and lonely, and consumed with guilt about his part in the destruction of the marriage. And he is clearly not handling it well. These are not excuses for bad behavior, but this is the story the show is telling. Just because our protagonist is acting badly doesn’t make it bad story telling if they go somewhere with it.This, exactly. As much as I like Ed and he’s a good guy, dude clearly has some social interaction issues. The show has never dodged pointing that out. It’s never been framed as something we (the audience) should find acceptable.
Yeah, I think you summed it up better than the review. I did NOT expect Ed to hit her with that ultimatum btw. I literally said “What the fuck??” out loud, and my wife went “Yeah.” I thought he was just going to tell her what he planned to do, or ask her permission, not twist her arm. He is clearly a flawed guy, which makes him human, albeit slightly sketchy when it comes to his feelings.
It’s interesting, this is the second time where an episode has set up what seems to be the ultimate dude wish fulfillment scenario for Ed – only to have it actually not end up quite that way. The first was of course Nothing Left on Earth Except Fishes, when what seemed to be a ridiculously perfect girlfriend turned out to be a murderous Krill terrorist. This time around, I think it’s a little unfair to describe Ed as turning down young Kelly because it’s “not new” for him. Instead I think he pretty clearly says that he’s in love with the current Kelly and all the maturity and knowledge she’s gained over the past seven years. That seems like an at least semi-mature outcome – certainly compared to the many exes out there who went with the young and shiny instead!
I do not know how Seth manages to fit so much sucking into 48min but damn he is brilliant at it.This episode’s plot was stupid in the TNG episode Second Chances and it is even a bigger bucket of stupid here. It makes a transporter accident almost quaint and nostalgic. The episode title should have just been “Thomas Riker w/ Bangs”
“While the puritanical sludge this country evolved from still makes it much more likely that a person will be shamed for enjoying sex at all”The best thing about the sexual revolution is that it’s always in the future.
I’m not sure why everyone keeps thinking this is just an alternate timeline and won’t have any bearing on anything. I don’t think her decision not to date Ed was thrown in there just for giggles. The mind wipe didn’t work, she remembered everything and didn’t want to go through all that pain, so she dumped Ed. I think it is a very high probably it will reverberate through time and change the timeline. Otherwise, why do it?
Because sometimes a twist is just a twist. For a show on the bubble, I don’t see them going for a time warping premise change Like That Other Show.
The preview for next week showed Old– sorry, Present Kelly meeting Past Kelly again, somehow.
I did not see that.
I’m not so sure that the “preview” wasn’t a review of the season, I seem to remember a few of the scenes it showed.
Wasn’t sure if those were new scenes, or a recap of the season.
I thought the same thing, but I think the preview was a wrap up of the season since it’s the season finale. I don’t think there was much new footage in that sequence, if at all. I could be wrong, but it looked like the circling of each other they did in the beginning of the ep.
Whoops.
This is what I think happened, as well. The wiping of Kelly’s memory did not take, and she remembered everything she had experienced in the future. Based on that knowledge of the future, she decided to make a different decision, presumably thinking that this would be best both for herself and for Ed.
Well that’s great, I want an imperfect technology in that way. This episode I liked a lot because it was like Black Mirror.I also think it improved on the two Riker episode because Ruler was just this underdeveloped manly man so the two Rikers basically grunted their way through the episode. This involved two mature adults talking through the dilemma. Kelly is essentially the mature adult of the ship (except maybe Dr Finn)
I think the wipe worked but her gut remembered. At one point she said him calling so soon almost blew it. Would not take much to tip that balance.
I think the memory wipe worked, but the brain is a complex organ. I felt she woke up like someone with a dream she can’t quite remember, but the experience in the future lefter her with a sense that dating Ed wouldn’t work. Whether this is an alternate timeline or not raises a whole lot of time travel issues/questions.
I think the reason people aren’t giving that much credence to the dumping is because the show kinda undersells the moment. I guess they were going for a “…wait, what?” reaction from us, not a “Best of Both Worlds” style “To Be Continued”, but it didn’t seem to indicate there would be more of an impact from it.
SPOILERSPOILERLAST WARNINGNext week’s episode is titled something to the effect of “The Road Not Taken”, so I’m pretty much certain that the finale takes place in this alternate timeline.
When they were dissecting Ed’s next-morning-call at the beginning of the ep, Kelly says she answered the call, but did they ever get into what she actually said? She did say that earlier in her life she probably wouldn’t have answered at all, so maybe she answered but was still a little freaked out and just tried to blow him off. Maybe Ed just persisted (as we see him continue to do seven years later) and he won her over and things played out exactly as they should.
Yeah – Here’s what. Something bad will be going on in the changed timeline – Ed will be in jail or the Caylons will be winning- something. Somehow someone will know that this “isn’t” how it’s “supposed” to be, much like Whoopi Goldberg knew something was off when the Federation and Klingons were at war in TNG (and the fabulous Tasha Yar, killed in the original timeline, sacrificed herself to help restore things to how they were “supposed” to be-excellent plot line I thought). Similarly someone (apparently Kelly) will have to go back and convince other Kelly that she must go ahead and date Ed for the good of everyone and everything. This will either be resolved in the upcoming season finale or be a season finale cliffhanger that we will have to wait until what-two years from next December to find out how it’s resolved-but it will be. Musical score to include Barbra Streisand’s “The Way We Were” and “Dames” from the Broadway musical “42nd Street.” Note to Kelly: While you’re back there, can you fix it so Dr. Claire doesn’t have kids in the “restored” timeline? But I really do like this show even with the places that might use a little tweaking.
C’mon! Talk about the elephant in the room!…!Young Kelly rejects Ed in her own time. This implies that they never get married. So what happens to Ed and Kelly’s relationship?..! Never married, never divorced, no relationship tension… it all has to change next week, so long as young Kelly *was* from the same timeline.I guess we’ll have to find out next week in the finale! Tune in everyone. Same space-time, same space-channel…!
Top of Episode Kelly: “Yo! I used to get SO drunk y’all!”
Later in Episode Kelly: “Yo! Don’t tell stories about the wild stuff I used to do to my subordinates who I hang out with socially and tell wild stuff stories to.”
GET. BETTER. WRITERS. And for peet’s sake if you’re going to do a “Thomas Riker” ep, then make the person pulled from the past RADICALLY different from their current self. How about a more wild, less rigorous Bortus? A dorkier helmsperson?
Honestly, I will McFarlane would just make a half hour animated sci-fi comedy where he could focus the funny, and which would allow him to hire a team that can do solid sci-fi in live action mode.
The fact that Ed wears a robe on to the bridge makes zero sense. Also, I’ve never seen so many dudes in pajamas in my life.
“Please alert the Kaylons to hold off their attack until I put my pants on.”
He’s already fully covered by the pajamas he is wearing.
I enjoy The Orville, but this article’s title could refer to pretty much every episode thus far.
Did anybody catch that tidbit at the beginning, when John and Isaac at the beginning were explaining the Cone-thing to Kelly; Isaac casually mentions that due to his superior intelligence he’s discovered the Cone might be able to eventually create some kind of “temporal field to the neurological pathway of a biological and artificial organism”. Did he just say that they’ll eventually be able to put Isaac’s ‘consciousness’ into an actual biological body? I feel like this is going to come back into play next season; maybe Isaac will begin to ‘miss’ the good doctor and try to woo her biologically, so to speak.
I believe he instead said that the temporal field could interface with a biological or artificial neural pathway. In other words, it would work for Kaylons as well. Which will likely be significant.
I think you might be right, and I also thought maybe an attempt to steal the time cone was why the Kaylon ships were after them – if the Kaylon were still on their plan of wiping out humanity, being able to disguise themselves as humans a la the Cylons (only with actual biological bodies) would be a pretty effective way of infiltrating Earth’s defenses.
“Ed and his truly ugly pajama shirt” – I’m glad I’m not the only one who thought so! And the creepiness factor aside, isn’t it against military regs for the captain to be dating a junior officer in any universe? (I realize Ed did this before when the Krill was masquerading as a crew member, but I had the same question then.) I hope they run with something interesting coming of young Kelly’s decision not to see Ed again since otherwise I was kind of disappointed with this episode. Usually time travel story lines are my favorite, but this one was a letdown.
I haven’t watched the episode yet but any episode that doesn’t feature Dr. Claire’s kids has gotta be at least “B+.” On a more positive note, I LOVE Talla. I was afraid I couldn’t live without Alara, but there you are. (Whoever suggested that she change hairstyles might have had a point though.)
Can we talk about how the first season was a comedy with occasional sci-fi, and the second season has been sci-fi with occasional, randomly inserted comedy? And the level to which the sci-fi is thought out hasn’t even improved between seasons!Your comment of “uneven” certainly encapsulates the show at this point, I hope they’re able to figure out what show they’re making by season 3.
When Ed went to talk to Kelly about dating Young Kelly, at first I totally thought he was going to ask if she’d be comfortable with that, because he wouldn’t even consider it without her okay. So it really threw me when he actually just wanted to know whether she was 100% sure there was no chance of them getting back together. That’s definitely more selfish than I thought he’d be. He could have at least asked *both* questions. Meanwhile, if Gordon thinks something’s a bad idea… I don’t know how much more proof one could need than that. (Oh, and I also found it a bit odd that the story never even touched on how weird it must be for Gordon to try to start a brand new friendship with someone he’s been friends with for years. Of course it’s not as intensely weird as Ed and Young Kelly, but still… not to even mention it in passing seems like undervaluing the importance of friendship.) Speaking of friendship, there was the scene early on when Ed, Kelly, and Gordon were all sharing embarrassing stories about their past with Talla. And later when Kelly gets upset about Young Kelly doing the same thing, it did feel a bit hypocritical, to me. I also wanted to say that throughout the episode, I was never quite sure whether it was Palicki playing her younger self, or if it was an actress who looked kind of similar. She definitely didn’t look identical, to me, even accounting for different hairstyles or wardrobes.And finally… the preview of next week’s episode didn’t look to me like it would follow up on the twist at the end of this episode. But I do hope it will, or else that we’ll see a follow up in season 3 (assuming there is a season 3). It does seem like there are a lot of different ways this could play out, but just ignoring the twist wouldn’t make much sense. (Then again, there are all kinds of things in this series that don’t make sense. I’m still not clear why Isaac hasn’t provided the Union with transporters, since the time he spent on that planet in season one that developed them.)
The Orville works when I can forget it stars a billionaire living out his fantasy. When he dates a younger version of his ex-girlfriend, that becomes difficult.
Palicki raised the acting bar to a new level in this one. Very impressive.
The thing that was oddly written was Seth’s reaction to her on their date. It’s seven years – not 27 years. And they were already somewhat accomplished adults by then. It’s not like they were HS kids dating at 16 and suddenly he’s 23 and she’s still 16. Seth was acting like he she walked across his lawn like a meddling kid.
They aren’t young adults working at the mall. When they began dating they were already experienced junior officers. By now they’ve gone through years of space travel and war. Compare a First Lieutenant with maybe a deployment to him or her years later as a Major having been in command and served in more war zones.
I just said they were accomplished adults, not kids. ???
7 years seemed unrealistically short. They were acting like it was closer to 15 years, which would make more sense given everything that happened in their relationship.
I think they said 7 years because, if it was too much longer, they wouldn’t be able to sell the lack of de-aging make-up/effects, instead just going with a wig to differentiate the two.
I bet you’re right.
He was reconciling what how Kelly evolved vs how she was now. It’s just a double-take. No big deal.
No mention of Yaphit? Who is apparently the MVP of the dancefloor!
Did they finally spot an Orville episode worthy of bashing? I know the Hollywood Democrats have been hysterical (aren’t they always?) over the fact that Orville kicked Discoveries ass in every metric including the “Not Stupid” and the “Underwhelming” categories.
Yes yes and the “Underwhelming” honorable mention winner again is STD!
Pretty desperate pumping of a show that people aren’t even watching for free. But enjoy the fact that Discovery was renewed a couple months ago. Hows it going for the Orville?
Savage Love is archaic, showing your age there old man, also it was never as sex positive or progressive as people made it out to be, much like the blogger behind it.That said, judging by the summary preview for the next episode the timeline wasn’t altered until Kelly Junior returned and altered it, which is an interesting take on time travel, immediate. The next episode will deal with her decision to ditch Ed and have a different life, and of course how that will impact the larger universe due to her essential role on The Orville. Such a cool concept, love that they’re going all the way instead of troping it away like everyone else does.Not bothered by Kelly Junior wanting to date Ed, because she obviously did at the time, I was surprised Kelly Senior was so patient with it, I imagine she knew how it would end up and let it play out. Ed was acting out of desperation, and I think Kelly Senior understood that, she has definitely grown tremendously wiser in seven years and demonstrated it.Pumped for the next episode! Also, Yaphet had some SICK dance moves.
Fashion Corner: Boy there were a lot of rough looks tonight.Lieutenant Keyali’s leather pants, OTOH, will never be out of fashion.BTW, they just invented time travel. That changes everything. Right?
Yeah, I can’t help but feel like we’re burying the lede here: THEY INVENTED TIME TRAVEL!
Yeah, I can’t help but feel like we’re burying the lede here: THEY INVENTED TIME TRAVEL!
This was a reverse Riker/Troi from Second Chances. The difference was that Riker and Troi actually split up due to Riker pursuing his career so new Riker took advantage. Old Riker did not tell Troi to fuck off either and didn’t really care. They didn’t work out either. The younger Grayson/Mercer relationship was ill-advised but not terribly objectionable. Current Grayson saying to “fuck off” would be a HUGE overreaction IMO.
I liked the episode better the first time they wrote it nearly three decades ago as “Second Chances”
Another thing Orville is presenting better than TNG, is that there’s an age difference among the crew, and it’s part of the overall dynamic.
I felt bad for both Ed and young Ed.
Bortus and Klyden needed this night out.
Let’s MOCSH!
They did the Moclan Mash!
When you get to my door, tell them Bortus sent you.
Other than when they got addicted to cigarettes, I can’t recall ever seeing them happier.
THE NIGHT IS OURS!
Imagine being so young that seven years makes a difference.
I read this episode differently and thought it was great! It’s pretty universal to wonder what it would be like to meet your future self, to see how things work out; and what it would be like to meet your past self and be able to clue that younger-you in to the consequences of choices you made. It’s also universal to wonder what it would be like if you could go back, knowing what you know now, and start over at some point that could turn around a deep regret that you have. I loved the way Kelly and Ed explored these questions.
What Ed did before he came to his senses was all kinds of creepy, but consistent with the character. I also wouldn’t call it an ultimatum so much as him being honest and being weak-willed.
Was there something wrong with my TV or are Adrienne Palicki’s legs really that skinny? Good episode though. Original.
Good – I’m not the only one. When she woke up on the floor at the end, the only thing I could think of is “geeze, you could clean the inside of a pipe, lady!”
Glad I’m not the only one who noticed.
She was Wonder Woman for a pilot episode, so I was shocked to see that.
Oh man, so she couldn’t have looked like that then. Wow. Will have to see if I can find a pic.
Prediction: when we come back, the war with the robots will be much more advanced because the timeline changed and when they call command, the admiral is shocked that kelly isnt in command of the orville b/c the temporal device protected the orville, and in the now altered timeline kelly became commander and as a result, they didnt rescue klyden resulting in large scale death on earth.
The question, in processing Ed’s behavior. that everyone ought to ask themselves is… what the hell would _we_ do in his situation? I have a very good analog to Ed and Kelly’s relationship in my past. We met towards the end of college, fell hard and despite a lot of effort- could not keep it together. No one fell out of love so much as just… we got _tired_ of ourselves.
After we separated- a couple of years later- we were invited to the same event, and spent a little time going over everything. Wondering if maybe there wasn’t enough there- still- to try again.We decided that there was not. Too much time had passed, and we were not the people that we had been, etc. It was a sweet moment, and there was a great deal of affection flowing, but- it seemed the right thing to let go. If I was put face to face with her as she was back in college- the woman she was then? I have _no_ idea what I would do. I suspect I would be _as_ nuts about her as I was at the time, and I suspect that I would be as tempted as Ed to see if I could cheat time. Ed was not so much out of character- to me- as overcome by a lousy temptation, and not- quite- strong enough to resist it at the start. Thing is… if there is a minor timeline split- he’s with the Kelly to whom he was married- this may be an issue going forward, Ed having been a dick to her, trying to push her into something. If there _is_ no timeline split- they may never have actually _been_ married. In which case, hey, free to try again.
One notable twist to was that this is one of the first/only instances I can remember of a tv show were one actor plays two characters, and the two versions actually physically touch while you see both of their faces. I guess the technology is so good now you don’t need to just keep to one side of an imaginary line so the spliced frames don’t cross.Also, did Young Kelly look way skinner than Old Kelly? or was it just the uniform vs. leggings?
The DS9 episode “Treachery, Faith, and the Great River” happened to air last night. I had to laugh when, in order to get away from pursuing Jem’Hadar, Odo and Weyoun 5 decide to steer their runabout into a frozen asteroid field and “become the ice.”Now in DS9 Odo actually blasts the runabout into the middle of an ice rock, powers down, and Weyoun 5 almost freezes to death. Where as The Orville just kind of attaches itself to the outside of their rock. Its just funny the random similarities or Easter Eggs or “borrowing” that goes on with The Orville from Star Trek…..even these obscure instances that would probably otherwise go totally unnoticed.
I don’t want to live in a timeline where Bortus and Klyden don’t dance at Kelly’s favorite joint.
I hope Adrianne Palicki doesn’t have an eating disorder because man, is she skinny. I worry for her health.
I liked this episode when it was called “Second Chances.”
BTW, while not quite as toxic, isnt the willigness of Deanna to mess around with Thomas Riker at least somewhat comparable to the captain here?
Another solid episode