A grim, brutal Andor ponders the value of an innocent life
"Nobody's Listening!" shows us the true horror of the Empire
TV Reviews Andor
Don’t let the jaunty little exclamation point that serves as a flourish on this week’s episode title fool you. “Nobody’s Listening!” is meant in a literal, urgent sense. It’s not a taunt but a primal wail and one the writers know we’ve all wanted to scream at one point or another in the last few years. Even the excited synth riff accompanying this week’s title card belies the brutal tone of episode nine, which spends its first half focusing solely on Cassian and Bix, separately but simultaneously under the boot of the Empire.
We start on Ferrix, where Dedra is interrogating Bix about Cassian’s whereabouts, what she knows about the thefts of Imperial technology, and who her mysterious buyer is. It’s been interesting watching her demeanor shift from polite-but-stubborn-loyalist in the company of her fellow ISB officers to arch-supervillain when she has someone “below” her captive. Last week, it was Syril, though not under nearly as dire circumstances. Dedra has brought along with her Doctor Gorst, an absolute creep of a mad scientist who’s developed a torture technique that doesn’t maim the body but the mind. Recently, the Empire slaughtered a sentient alien race who resisted an Imperial refueling center on their home. The slaughter was broadcast as proof of the mission, and the cries of the aliens as they died had a special property that drove those who heard the massacre into a state of helpless insanity. The three communications officers who received the broadcast were later found huddled together in a crawl space. “We found a section of what we believe are primarily children,” Gorst tells Bix, almost giddy, attaching a headset to her and telling her the process doesn’t take long. Though, “It won’t feel that way to you on the inside.” It takes just seconds before Bix is screaming.
On Narkina 5, Cassian continues his drudgery at Table 5 under Kino’s could-kill glare. Unlike almost everyone else in the prison, Cassian is unwilling to accept that he’s here for the long haul. When he takes a bathroom break, we see he’s been scratching away at a pipe behind the toilet panel, but that’s about as active as his escape plan gets. For now, he’s a passive observer, keeping his head down, his table producing, and looking out for fellow Table 5-er Ulaf, an elderly inmate whose body and mind are degrading by the day. One night, Cassian and Melshi engage Kino in a predictably one-sided conversation about escaping. Kino’s having none of it. He’s 217 days away from release and dead-set on avoiding even the slightest trouble. “You think they’re listening?” Cassian scoffs at Kino. “You think they care enough to make an effort?” Cassian knows systems, what makes the Empire tick, and he knows for every true believer there’s just a guy on the payroll. “We are nothing to them,” he says, not in despair but seeing it as a strength to be exploited.
At least one person is watching, though, and it’s Mon Mothma. She’s in the Senate delivering a rebuke of the PORD, which allows the Empire to arbitrarily resentence prisoners for however long they see fit. It’s maddening and all too real that she’s met mostly with jeers and other senators pointedly turning off their lights and leaving the “floor”; it’s a dead-end fight, and even for Mon, a way of keeping up appearances. Do I believe she really cares about the PORD? I do. Do I believe it’s her priority? I do not. “Nobody’s Listening!” asks, again and again, what happens when lives become commodities? Dedra later justifies keeping Maarva alive as “bait,” as if the episode were putting too fine a point on it. Behind the scenes, Mon works with Tay to make sure her funding of the cause is well-laundered. It’s difficult making a 400,000 credit withdrawal disappear, so he enlists the help of an interstellar loan shark called Davo Sculdun—a “thug,” Mon says, uneasy. Also keeping up appearances is Mon’s cousin: Vel! I was sure Vel was related to Luthen, but it looks like Mon was her gateway into the rebellion. Mon tells her to sit tight and play the part of “spoiled rich girl” for a while. Which sounds fun to me but, you know, it’s Vel.
If there’s such a thing as levity in Andor, it comes courtesy of everyone’s favorite punching bag, Syril Karn. Still browbeaten and emotionally manipulated by his mother on a daily basis, he stakes out the ISB building hoping to run into Dedra. One day he succeeds, and the result is something I’m sure he thinks is some kind of grand romantic gesture committing himself to Dedra’s cause. Once again, she’s entirely uninterested and alarmed at his disproportionate feelings for her and the ISB. “I want what you want,” he tells her. They are, indeed, kindred spirits in a twisted way, but Dedra’s good at her job, and we’ve already seen how Syril handles an occupation of Ferrix. Back to your day job, Syril.
There’s a tinge of horror throughout this week’s episode. Something I haven’t experienced in a Star Wars story before is genuine unease, but Bix’s torture and Cassian’s endless toil on the production line succeed in that regard. Back on Narkina 5, there have been frantic hand signals between prisoners on different levels about something big going down on level two. Later on, Ulaf collapses and a med tech is called, also a prisoner. Ulaf, 40 days from release, has had a huge stroke, and the only thing the doctor can do for him is give him a peaceful death. Cassian presses the doctor for answers about level two as Kino looks on. Turns out someone on level four was released, then immediately sent back two floors down. The prisoners got wise, and an entire production floor was “fried.” We could see it on his face already, but Kino finally knows it fully: No one’s ever getting out. Cassian asks him, one more time, the question he’s asked for the entire episode: “How many guards are there on each level?” Kino doesn’t flinch. “Never more than 12,” he answers right back, knowing Cassian is now his only shot at leaving. A prison break brews.
Stray observations
- A lot of you (quite fairly) got on my case about not acknowledging that one of Cassian’s Table 5 colleagues is Melshi, the gentle Scot who’s part of Cassian’s rebel team in Rogue One. I confess: I’ve held off on watching the film until I’m done with Andor, lest I get too distracted by Andor’s true narrative and purpose.
- More absolutely savage insults from Syril’s mother this week. My personal favorite: “I put you back on your feet and what is the return on my investment?”
- I suppose Doctor Gorst’s torture had to be suitably monstrous to make Bix’s cooperation less of a betrayal and far more understandable. Adria Arjona’s eyes sell it as soon as the headset goes on. Anyone would talk.
- “We’re cheaper than droids and easier to replace” is a hell of a line and entirely accurate for earthbound prisoners, too.
- No Luthen this week. What’ll be his reaction when he finds out the Empire is closing in on him?
- The Star Wars fanfare and logo that precedes any of its Disney+ offerings show where Lucasfilm’s priorities lie: Helmets and droids or, in other words, merchandisable iconography. Something Andor has absolutely no interest in. Respect.
174 Comments
I think this crystallized for me this episode: Mon Mothma’s family is going to betray her/rat her out, and this will be the reason she can leave them behind and commit fully to the Rebellion. They’re very carefully developing the divide between Mon vs. dad/daughter.
I’d like to hope her daughter can be redeemed, but yeah her husband is going to be a major issue.
*files claws*Coruscant’s got some very high skyscrapers, doesn’t it? Would be an awful shame if he leaned over the edge just…so.
The way she’s been eyeing Mon more suspiciously each episode makes me think she will mirror Bix’s boyfriend and think she’s doing the right thing and may even end up getting killed in the process.
In earlier episodes, I got the impression that her daughter had a genuinely rebellious streak in her; and that maybe she saw her mother as a shitty Pelosi-an image of the hated status quo, regardless of her politics. That impression has softened in her last few appearances, but given the kid’s approximate age, I still have a feeling she’s going to be how Mothma meets Leia.
Oh, yeah. They’ve been building this with such subtly over the last three episodes. I’m also getting bad vibes about Banker Tay, Leida and the questionable age of Chandrilan consent. Hope I’m wrong.
I’m really digging how this show is going full force into “Anyone who claims they’re ‘not political’ is probably just a fascist.” With bonus heteronormative crusading.
Anyone who claims they’re not political is an idiot with atrocious views. Politics are inherently a part of our identity, and apathy is one of the reasons cruelty and incompetence are allowed to persevere everywhere. This show is far from perfect, but it does at least get that right.
At least in Rebels Mothma leaves the senate of her own accord, after the massacre of an alien people she resigns from the senate and publicly denounces the emperor.
If they go for full on brutal then I wouldn’t be surprised if the double-cross ends up with the empire inadvertently killing her daughter
I can’t get over the Will Forte vibes I get from her husband.
What I read in the dinner scene was that Mon’s daughter is reading the distance between her parents and seeing her mother’s closeness with Tay as mom’s having an affair with her ex boyfriend. Mom’s got a job that she values highly and is always “busy”, dad’s the “fun” parent that lets her do whatever she wants. She sees her mother prioritizing herself not her, not their family. The family is well to do other moms of their social standing probably have no jobs or have things that they do but they’re not as engaged as Mon is and her daughter is reading that as her mother doesn’t love her more than work and her other obligations one of which is a boyfriend. We know that Mon’s helping to build a rebellion but her daughter is a teenager all she’s seeing is her mom’s not there, she’s either at work or is busy doing other things and has another man around all the time.
The kid’s an evil little twerp she could use some headset time with Dr. Gorst
I like this reading. I actually would love to have a couple whole episodes dedicated to Mon’s family life and the relationships therein. (What I really mean is, please let Tony Gilroy do lots of stuff.)
On Disney+, the episode thumbnail for the space opera show was just a depressed Syril eating cereal, alone. It simultaneously summed up this entire show and everything I love about it.
Maybe it’s like Netflix with their custom thumbnails, and the algorithm just thinks you’re pathetic. Uh, ;).
I don’t think of myself as a particularly horny person, but netflix advertises so many of its offerings to me with scantily clad women. It’s not like I’m re-winding the nude scenes to pound off either.
It’s just playing the odds, assuming you’re a male and straight, I guess…
“Pounding off”?! Where do you get these terms?!
It’s really hard to find anything wrong with this show. I sincerely hope it never ends.
I feel you, but the fact that it will end gives me hope that it’ll never be ruined like everything else.
According to someone involved in the production they were going to do five seasons but some genius cut it down to two. Fuck that guy.
They realized it would take forever to produce 5 seasons, it was purely practical.
Yeah, Gilroy and Luna basically said in interviews while filming Season 1 that they couldn’t envision themselves doing this for the next ten years or so, which is what it would have taken to do 5 seasons.So we’ll just have to cherish what we get.
I’d much rather have two solid seasons (and I have no reason to believe that we won’t, as good as S1’s been) than five made under increasing strain, logistical challenges, and increasing pressures from on high, because you know it would happen. I’m more than happy to get what we’re getting, let it prove its point, and have it keep a tight focus.
Agreed
Apparently Season 2 will be 10 standalone episodes set over a 5 year period (or however long it takes to takes to get to Rogue One), according to Tony Gilroy in a recent episode of WTF w Marc Maron
I heard they were doing mini arcs again of 3 episodes each, each arc covering a year of time leading up to Rogue One. I can’t imagine there will be ten standalone episodes after the first season’s rich serialized storytelling.
Gilroy said they start filming S2 this month and finish in August 2023. Then post-production which will carry them into 2024.
Tony Gilroy did a WTF podcast with Marc Maron in early October. Totally fascinating guy.
I may have to check out that WTF. But, yeah, 2 years to make a seasons is exactly why they decided to end after 2.
A thought I had, not while watching, but while reading this recap: we know what happened to the Imperials who received the recording of the Dizonites being killed. But what happened to the Imperials who killed them?And this episode doesn’t ask the question, but we can infer the answer from it.Nothing. Because they weren’t listening.
I’m suddenly reminded of the Monty Python sketch The Funniest Joke in the World.
Or maybe the Total Perspective Vortex (unless your name is Zaphod Beeblebrox)
Or Infinite Jest
He never would have survived the real one.
Merchandisable iconography free of any likeness rights owed to recognizable actors. And they couldn’t even put a piece of actual Star Wars music over it. Just awful.
Yeah, the “theme song”, such as it is, in that opening Star Wars bit is utterly atrocious. Paramount now has a similar one for their Star Trek shows and, while still an irritating delay, at least it uses the iconic music.
I hate the Star Trek branding so much, for complicated reasons. Maybe it’s because Trek is one of “my” fandoms in a way that Wars isn’t, but for me that little cartoon starship draws a “these aren’t stories, they are intellectual property and don’t you forget it” line in the sand in a way that really steams my beans. My temperament is not well-suited for this stage of capitalism, I guess.
Who knows, maybe Star Trek will somehow, as if by accident, give us an actual quality piece of content amidst its recent crap, similar to have Disney has shockingly made Andor amongst the rest of its SW mediocrities. But I doubt it.
don’t talk that way about Strange New Worlds or Lower Decks!
I would also add Prodigy!
I’ve seen a 2-3 episodes of Prodigy. It’s….fine. For what it is, it’s perfectly acceptable, just not what I’m looking for in terms of Trek content.
Strange New Worlds is indeed great. Lower Decks is not.But it’s still hard to get the complete travesty of Picard out of my system. As bad as Discovery is, Picard is on a whole other level of terrible.
Strange New Worlds and Lower Decks are great.Try to take the stick out of your ass.
Strange New Worlds is great (and I keep forgetting to finish the season, so I have a little ways to go.)Lower Decks is shit.
This is the same guy that commented on every Mandalorian season 1 episode here saying that the show was awful and that everyone was wrong for liking it. You could literally feel his annoyance as that season went on about the positive reaction to that show and how he felt that everyone was wrong except him.His comments about Star Wars are unintentionally hilarious when you binge one of these shows.
It has, it’s called Lower Decks
Lower Decks is complete crap. It’s a shitty meme in 30 minute form. I haven’t been able to finish an episode lately, they’re just so fucking boring.
I like Brave New World and Lower Decks, for different reasons.
Britell is a phenomenal composer, I don’t need another Williams rehash.
Not talking about the Andor score, talking about the dorky little “star wars” opening bumper with the animated masks that accompanies every SW property on Disney Plus. That’s excruciating.
Ahh my mistake, yeah the LucasFilm thing I think is enough
The helmet showcase is great.
The actual title card for Andor, however, is like 5 times longer than it needs to be.
Thank you. This has always bugged the shit out of me. Example: (if it loads)
Wow, that is one of the most misguided things I’ve seen in a long time. But then I read the Youtube comments on the video and it’s all a bunch of, “OMG, this brought me to tears. So uplifting!”
I’m like, “Sure, kid, identify with a Star Wars character to help with anxiety over health issues. But this?” I guess the premise only works with Stormtroopers. Jawas maybe. Misguided is right. So misguided, it loops around, sabotages itself, and becomes a sociopolitical mind-fuck.
They’ve been doing this “lineup of merch-able robo-faces” for like a year and a half, with little tweaks as shows come and go. Surprised anybody’s noticing it for the first time now.
It’s not that I outright hate it, it’s just that I can’t imagine that anyone, including the people who made it, cares about it.
And I still can’t tell what the third to last one is (after the rebel pilot and before the First Order storm trooper)
Scout trooper?
It’s a Scout Trooper. The ones from RotJ on the speeder bikes.
Grim and brutal used to describe Star Wars.Yikes.40 year old dudes on the internet really won the culture wars.
Almost all “prestige” TV shows these days are dark.
Right, but Star Wars sure as hell isn’t “prestige”
Sure, and the fact they they’re making a vapid, faux-prestige Star Wars show in 2022 means the 40-year-old weird nerds won
It’s probably more accurate to describe it as:
“Not an elaborate toy commercial.”
Literally everything besides this show is still Star Wars in fun mode. There’s room for different approaches.
…and I still find Andor “fun” in that I care about it and want to see more.
You seem mistaken. Disney’s Star Wars is absolutely saturated with bubbly nostalgic nonsense. There’s no shortage. They “won”. Go watch any of that.It’s a rare miracle that this one series, on the other hand, is able to tell its own story and explore themes without needing to obsequiously imitate every other Star Wars product. Your casual smearing of these creatives’ work, as if only 40-year-old dudes enjoy well-crafted sci-fi thrillers – as if no-one should ever write about the evils of an evil empire? – is thinly veiled anti-intellectualism.
Good take. Has this guy literally never heard of Baby Yoda?
Star Wars has always had an undercurrent of grimness. A whole planet was obliterated in “A New Hope.” The whole of the prequel trilogy is literally about the Dark Side prevailing and ends with children literally being slaughtered.And “Andor” is still very PG-13. The really awful stuff doesn’t happen on-screen, it’s just talked about.It’s not Snyder-verse GrimDark, but really does tap into the hopelessness that pervaded much of “Rogue One.” I think the biggest difference is that the brutalities of the Empire were demonstrated more at the macro level, and here we’re really seeing them on a personal level. With stellar pacing and an incredibly taut script.
The IP is literally entitled “Star Wars” and is about fighting a fascist/imperialist regime… this is literally what’s been going on the entire time, it’s just never been given storytelling space because of the movies’ myopia in tying the fate of billions of lives to like a dozen people
It’s such a vast galaxy that there’s room for all kinds of stories within it. I imagine a Star Wars universe where there are the Trilogy films, which are the large, wondrous epics involving a handful of players, and then there are one-off projects, that are maybe fun adventures, silly comedies, grisly horror, serious dramas, whatever you like. As long as they feel true to the world-building. This is what I like about Andor. It feels true to Star Wars, but from a different perspective, and done well.
Have you even watched the show? It still fits the themes of Star Wars and has excellent writing. There are also still plenty of other things you could watch if you want a fluffy fun Star Wars story.
While I like the show, I kind of agree with you. The way people fawn over this show (as evidenced by the replies to your comment) is weird to me.As I said, I enjoy the show, but it’s bleak. And markedly, not fun. There is no element of adventure, everything is either tense or sad, nobody seems to genuinely enjoy themselves at any moment. Even the victories (like a successful heist) are undercut by accidental deaths and betrayals.Obviously the show has something to say about the brutal iron fist of the Empire bearing down on its citizens, but 9 episodes in…I get it, man. Not one character is able to loosen up for five seconds. Everyone is sad, on edge, and not enjoying any facet of their life.At least Rogue One had K-2 to provide some levity. The token merchandisable droid in this series is a meek, broken down little thing that frequently gets told to shut up.Like I said, I enjoy the show, but probably won’t go back and re-watch it any time soon. I get that people are getting tired of the same old Star Wars, but Andor is sort of a too-on-the-nose course correction in my opinion.
A sign of the times given rampant conservative Trump induced fascism
This is the stupidest possible take.
The first Star Wars movie featured the massacre of a billion people just to make a point. It’s always been grim and brutal.
Not to mention torture of Princesses, murdering Luke’s adoptive parents and setting the bodies alight, massacring Jawa’s and executing subordinates simply for making an on-the-job mistake.
At first I was typing out a list like yours (but I actually had different examples, which shows how many examples there are, but I decided to go with the short comment.) I mean the sequels feature one of the most beloved characters in film history getting murdered by his own son!
‘I’m a 40+ oldster on the internet! I’ve won! I’ve decreed that ALL Star Wats properties shall be as well-written and beautifully produced/acted as Andor, regardless of tone!’(Narrator: ‘They weren’t.’)
They are, indeed, kindred spirits in a twisted way, but Dedra’s good at her job, and we’ve already seen how Syril handles an occupation of Ferrix.Except… well, he is good at his job. He’s a talented investigator with a drive to hunt down evidence. He’s a terrible field agent and awful at office politics, but that’s not the main bulk of his work, and if his superiors had been at all interested in finding Andor, then he likely wouldn’t have been anywhere near the field.Of course, he’s a fascist asshole, a radicalizing stalker with a growing obsession over a member of the fascist secret police, so I’m not going to say its a bad thing that he’s continuing to get ignored. Fuck him, fuck her, fuck all the Imperial fucks.As for the show as a whole? The real thing that its doing so well is something that Star Wars’ main stuff frequently avoids: Mundane evils. Like, the Bix torture scene, that honestly made my eyes roll, because I’m so, so tired of “oh we tortured them and they spilled everything totally accurate and all no downsides to torture” nonsense that fiction gets up to. It’s there to make the Empire seem Capital-E Evil (as well as speed along some plot points), and about as subtle as a 4×4 to the face.But the prison stuff? That’s a kind of tangible, real horror that hits harder. It’s not some evil space magic stuff, its not some dark evil cooked up by a sick, twisted mind no one could comprehend. Its not even really trying to be all that callous. Its an evil that feels more real and harder to ignore, even if its, objectively, not as bad as blowing up planets…
I’d put money on Karn joining the rebellion in a future season. Not soon, but eventually.
Like, the Bix torture scene, that honestly made my eyes roll, because I’m so, so tired of “oh we tortured them and they spilled everything totally accurate and all no downsides to torture” nonsense that fiction gets up to.Downsides to the victim? Or from the perspective of the torturer? I’m almost sure we’ll see the former at some point.
The latter. In reality, torture is notoriously bad at getting reliable, useful information from the person being tortured. To quote a show that had an actual former spy on-hand to help with the realism (Burn Notice):A lot of people’s first instinct when they need information out of a captive is to grab a baseball bat or a gun. The fact is, torture is for sadists and thugs. It’s like getting groceries with a flamethrower. It doesn’t work, and it makes a mess. Getting useful information is about creating a new reality for the interrogation subject with no hope of escape or freedom. You control every aspect of their world: how they eat, where they sleep, even whether it’s day or night. When it’s time to ask questions, you want them disoriented, anxious, wondering who you are and what you can do to them. You have to make them understand that their entire future, their hopes, their dreams, and every breath they will ever take from then on, it all depends on one thing: Talking.The bolded bit is the important part, but I wanted to include the whole part to make it clear that the effective alternatives to torture aren’t exactly cuddly either.This isn’t “bad guys are being evil, how dare they!”, its just “bad guys doing tropey nonsense with no basis in reality and it working because we need to move the story along”.
The basis in reality is that torture is still regularly used despite knowing that it isn’t reliable. Fiction could do with showing how unreliable it is, but that’s not narratively expedient, so I can understand why examples are rare.
Aye, I fully get why its being used here, and its more of an annoyance than anything. It can be handy as a plot expedient, after all, just wish more shows avoided using it.I would love it, though, if they used Doctor Torture a third time in the show… and the intel they get from it is complete bullshit that wastes all their time at a crucial juncture, or some other subversion of the Conveniently Reliable Torture trope.
I mean it has to get discredited at some point right? Otherwise, why so much reliance on the probe droids?
I read this comment and immediately thought of Han in ESB — “They didn’t even ask me any questions.”
Wasn’t it in Zero Dark Thirty where they totally inverted the way they got crucial information to make it look like it came from torture, and Kathryn Bigelow barely said “whoops”?
That’s what some accused it of. It’s not really true. It portrays torture, because torture happened, and yes, some information is gleaned from it, but it’s not shown to be reliable. In the opening scene they torture some guy to find out when an attack is planned, “Sunday” he says, then offers “Monday”, and “Tuesday”… It’s useless. The attack goes ahead. After that, Maya suggests trying to trick him into thinking he’d already given up some information, and using that to get more out of him. It’s more effective. The crucial piece of information that leads to Bin Laden is actually presented as something the CIA had in its files for years. Agents had been spending their time torturing many more people with nothing much to show for it, while it was just sitting there waiting for someone to join the dots.
What I recall from ZDT was that they show a bunch of torture that results in no useful info, and then they stop torturing the guys and it’s only then that they get some actionable (and accurate) intel. I only saw it once when it came out, though.
What I liked about this show however is a throwaway line which Bix says which implies that she’ll be tortured regardless. And that’s true, cause once you’ve opened that door any bureaucracy will torture an individual simply to get 2 viewpoints of information (under duress and without) to verify and basically cover their ass. It doesn’t matter if it works or not, what matters is your ability in a boardroom to say we did everything we could.
Torturing multiple prisoners then cross-referencing the stories, can work. But that’s torture as routine policy, not an imaginary desperate necessity, one of those “hard choices” the heroes are so tragically compelled to make. And further, the idea torture is necessarily meant to get information needs amplification. Torture is about intimidation of the population. It often works in achieving that purpose. All the hypothetical problems about getting life-saving information tend to operate as fraudulent justifications for torture, precisely because they assume a “noble” purpose for torture while ignoring the very common reality it’s state terrorism. Private tortures are usually about sexual gratification, a point also ignored. That’s why torture victims in the movies and TV are largely clothed, especially the men. Naked victims can make it too obvious what the torture scenes are about. Personally I despise Charlie Cox’s Daredevil because he’s a torturer, so obviously my opinions are suspect.
With fascism, the cruelty is the point. Bix said the Deidra that no matter what, she wouldn’t believe what Bix said and Deidra agreed. Now, since the cruelty is the point, they decided to torture her. We don’t know what Bix told them after that. She might have lied. We don’t know yet.
“Torture has never been a reliable means of extracting information. It is ultimately self-defeating as a means of control. One wonders that it’s still practiced.” – Captain Picard
Do we know for sure that the information from the torture was entirely accurate? They had put a lot of the pieces together already and basically confirmed their suspicions, most of the other information was still pretty vague.
Yeah, I there’s ample reason to be skeptical that this is an endorsement. The raid on Spellhouse might be a red herring, and while it’s possible Bix was the actually the only person who used the radio, that could as easily be a partial truth Paak gave up to protect others.
Except… well, he is good at his job.
Not really. It’s largely coincidence that Andor’s as important as Syril thinks he is.
The reason he was good at his job has nothing to do with Andor’s importance. He was good because he had a double murder to solve, he solved it, and very nearly made the arrest. Had Andor not been with Luthen, Syril would have caught or killed Andor and probably would have had his promotion.Of course, that would have made for a very short, noncanonical series.
Okay, Syril is a bit more than just over eager, right? I mean, he even had Dedra a little freaked out. And let’s not dismiss his aggression when he grabbed her by the arm. If he doesn’t snap and murder his mom by the end of the season, then I don’t know what.
I can’t get over how phenomenal this show is. As a prequel to a prequel it has no business being THIS good.
I wondered if Luthen was the captured pilot.
Loved the little nod to the original Star Wars as Bix’s torture started – the quick pan-down following the door closing and the focus on boots walking away.Also, who here is starting to get the vibe that Syril Karn might actually end up stalker-killing Dedra instead of turning into an Imperial Big Bad?
They did that door-closing-etc last week as well, possibly not followed by the boots, but I definitely drew the connection.
I definitely think he’ll kill Dedra, instead of any of the “protagonists.”
I fully trust something is going to happen with Syril Karn, but I have absolutely no idea what and that’s so damn exciting.
Brownshirt Javert definitely has a premium account on OnlyFascists. He’s hoping to get a custom video from Dedra asking him how many lights he sees.Mon Mothma still has illusions of being the noble freedom fighter, that she won’t have to stoop to the level of criminals because her cause is righteous and just. She’ll soon realize that she’s going have to make deals with some really bad people. She’ll have to become a terrorist, and terrorists don’t get to be heroes.
-Kira Nerys
That’s amazing Kira was able to predict Mon Mothma’s character arc.
I’m sure Arne Darvin had something to do with it.
Take your tribble…I mean star!
Am I wrong for hoping that when Mon Mothma departs for the rebellion, her husband and daughter are visited by Dr. Gorst? They’ve been consistently awful.
You’re not wrong for that douche husband. Perhaps for the teen daughter.
I really hope Dedra dies a slow, painful death. Every time I see her on screen it makes me grit my teeth. I guess the writers did a good job developing a character I truly despise lol.
Yeah and the actress is incredible.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the show has her die anonymously in some way, rather than dramatically. Like, she just happens to be in a building that gets blown up by rebels. She never sees it coming, has no dramatic death scene or final confrontation.
With the final episode out today, I’m trusting you that this isn’t a spoiler lol.But, with that said, I hope that’s the case, although I don’t think it will be.
Haha, no, I’ve only even watched up through ep 10.I don’t think it will be either, but it would fit in with the show’s general approach, that there aren’t really big damn heroes in war, and that the system grinds people up and spits them out and even though everyone’s the protagonist of their own story in their own minds, a lot of people die in stupid or anonymous ways.
This was a pretty grim one, but torture consisting of the worst sound in the world was pretty inventive, and the whole episode really gassed up Dedra’s evil levels. Getting to know her as disciplined and competent and overcoming some office-politics odds while waiting for this kind of shoe to drop is just good character stuff, where I was halfway rooting for her because at least she has her shit together compared to more self-interested rivals and sniveling failsons.
Yup. They originally set her story up as someone to root for then like, no, she’s evil fascist scum.
Eh, she’s an officer in the Empire. I don’t think they ever set her up as someone to root for unless you forgot who she was working for lol.
I think maybe some people were hoping for a storyline where she slowly confronts the fact that she’s on the wrong team — something like Kallas’ face turn in “Rebels” but with a little more work put into it.
That’s what confuses me. I never saw anything that made me think “hey, maybe she’s secretly good”. That might have something to do with personal experience dealing with a particular person like her… minus the murder and torture part, obviously lol. I saw a character with intent, tenacity and sheer will to accomplish her goals. A character willing to step on whoever she needed to, just to make a point.
I think it’s an innate bias that many people have. She’s a white, blonde woman with a posh accent. I think it’s a shortcut that some people’s mind takes about “goodness” or “redemption”. Flip it to where she’s an Asian, brunette with a pan-Asian accent, I think some people’s expectation would be different. The show knows that.
You may be onto something there.
She was initially presented as an intelligent, ambitious career woman who knows the score and who has to deal with idiot men in the office who jealously guard their territory and think they know better.But now we’re reminded exactly *what* her career is.
So… how in anyway does that detract from her being evil? An intelligent, ambitious career women fighting against idiot men can’t be evil? If that’s the only reason why you assumed they were “setting up her story to as someone to root for”, I don’t really know what else to say to you.
Because Tony Gilroy intentionally wrote her early scenes in a way to make her seem initially as a sympathetic underdog in a bureaucracy. That crafted image was meant to be dramatically disabused.
And that perfectly crafted image wasn’t a red flag? It was pretty obvious to anyone not gullible enough to believe it.
Admittedly, we have the advantage of actually knowing how bad the Empire is ahead of time. 😜
Dedra’s assistant is too efficient for his own good. I’d bet he’s getting disappeared in about two episodes.
His initiative sending Dr. Torture without Dedra’s approval and his piping up with the details linking Andor to Aldhani are going to prove his undoing. You can see Dedra’s subtle increasing annoyance at his growing confidence. Not sure if Syril is ‘qualified’ to replace him, but that seems like a narrative path.
Both those actors are so great in creating this dynamic — the assistant and of course Denise Gough as Dedra. Her resting sneer, even when she’s approving of something, is pretty great. And she really brings the menace.
I think they are also toning it up in her appearance. Noticed in this episode the outfit was a little more fascistic. Having the long tight trench coat on sure not the same colors of the old black/brown shirts, but the same style.
You were literally cheering for “More (clap) Female (clap) SS Officers!” That’s… really bad!
I’m really wondering where Syril’s story is headed long-term. I get this feeling they’re playing a long game and he’s going to wind up joining the rebellion in a future season (not soon). I was thinking the same think about Dedra at first (or figuring we were being set up for at least ONE of them to turn), but she’s perhaps broken a bit too bad at this point. Then again, she hasn’t done anything nearly as bad as Kylo Ren, and we’re expected to just accept him as a redeemed hero, so who knows? For now, I’m putting money on Karn breaking good at some point. Hoping it’s not just a last second sacrificial turn (which would be a bit too on the nose “sad sack” for me). I’d prefer if he turns out to be a genuinely inspired rebel leader after going through the ringer of Imperial bureaucracy. If nothing else, you know he’ll have the most meticulously tailored rebel uniform of all of them.
Syril slurping his cereal (!) at his mother had me lmfao
I’m not so sure Mon was Vel’s gateway into rebel involvement. Mon speaks to Vel with a kind of independent deference that doesn’t scream “I brought you here”.
Bix can’t die, she’s too hot.Andy Serkis did the best work I’ve ever seen him do this week. And good job with Dedra’s full heel turn…I think it still was kind of dangling out there SOMEHOW that she was secretly sympathetic to the rebels.
What a gift Serkis is to the show. Did we have any idea he was involved? I can’t remember. I was genuinely surprised when he showed up..
That wasn’t a heel turn man, she’s been pretty ambitiously evil the whole time.
you’re kind of missing my point, look at the quote from Gough below in aboynamedart’s comment; Gilroy wrote this like you’re supposed to root for her to climb the corporate ladder…and you keep thinking “is she secretly a rebel? Is Syril going to become disenchanted with the empire and join the rebels? It was when she was literally leaving Bix in the room with the torturer (after noticeably not having them left alone and revealing in a twist that she has been an infiltrator all along) that it finally got through: “hey you know what? this lady…I think she might not be so good after all”Is this the Working Girl reboot I’ve been hearing about?
You were probably conditioned to root for her because she was presented as a woman trying to be heard and break through the glass ceiling.It made you forget that she was still a fascist imperial that wanted to actively hunt rebels, even when her own bosses didn’t think they were a real threat.That’s good writing and acting. It plays on a person’s bias to make someone see something that really isn’t there.
It is, and that is what I said, and it’s what the quote from Gough that I referred to said, so…congratulations on taking my point.
Just saw a quote from Denise Gough, the actress playing her, on that: “Tony wrote the first scenes for us to cheer for Dedra, but in the end you don’t do it anymore. She is not just a woman in a men’s world, but a fascist in a world of fascists. It was important to see that power corrodes women as much as men.”
As I asked above: “Is this the Working Girl reboot I’ve been hearing about?”
Andy Serkis did the best work I’ve ever seen him do this week.Seriously.I pointed out to everyone that would listen to me that the scene screenshotted above (him telling all of his workers “it’s just a rumor, we don’t know anything” — with his voice not at all matching the abject terror in his eyes) was a fucking masterclass in acting.
Bix was destined to die before the series was over since it was a prequel and I do not recall her in Rogue One.
For the record, in this episode, it was revealed that Vel is Mon Mothma’s cousin. Don’t think she’s related to Luthen.
FUCK. YES. STAR WARS PRISON BREAK BAYBEEEEEE
Great acting in this series, and this new episode in particular. Genevieve O’Reilly deserves recognition, she has to do a lot, in a very restrained way. I hope she maintains a central role next season, I love seeing multiple levels of the Rebellion as it develops.
Andy Serkis really shined in this episode, interesting character. Last week I thought the sign language communications might be happening behind his back, with the seemingly total commitment to toeing the line. But now you see his dimension. He does what he does because he thinks it’s the best way to make sure everyone survives, not because he’s an Imperial bootlicker. When Andor pushes him to help with details for an escape, he doesn’t help, but he isn’t reporting him to the guards.
Dedra Meero is solidified as one of the great Imperial characters, seeing her out of the office and engaging with Rebels allows for her to really show her teeth. No more careful office politics and careful maneuvering, it was full delicious villainy. Curious where she is going with Karn. More flat rejections of his help, and his creep factor really increased this episode.
Dissenting view:Andor is great at insisting that it’s the most serious, grim Star Wars TV show/movie to date, but it’s ultimately vapid. The whole backstory about the recorded sounds for the torture sessions was so convoluted — the speech was right out of a James Bond with a silly way that the villain is going to kill him. The season is almost over, and there is so little we know about the characters. There’s more talk about Mon Mothma’s financial issues than her backstory and motivation.Every scene with Dedra is the same — yapping about stolen technology. Are we ever going to see what her life is outside of the office? What the show doesn’t seem to get about authoritarianism, is that the bureaucrats having seemingly normal lives outside of their day jobs. And the fact that they can divorce the terrible things they do during the day from their home life is exactly what makes them so chilling.It totally feels like they’re treading water with Syril, keeping him around simply to help advance the plot at a key moment.
Wow Secret Police that have people tortured and killed still have creepy incel stalkers.
there’s hope for all of us!
I am worried the Empire will get their hands on Luthen. I like the guy layers like an onion and I am guessing he was one dangerous man back when. He’s older now but he’s still slippery and I can appreciate that because he feels to me like Dr. Lecter in Hannibal he’s hiding in plain sight genteel, well dressed, charming until he slips a blade between your ribs.
Well, FUCK.NOW you’ve got me pining for a parallel universe where Mads-as-Hannibal played the role of Luthen.
I think Dedra was slightly intrigued by Syril. Not in a normal romantic way but in some creepy BDSM way. I can see her being a hard dom and Syril being her whimpering pathetic sub.
There does seem to be SOMETHING twisted going on between them. She was clearly brought up short by his passion. Yes it’s creepy and degrading, but let’s face it—sometimes that’s just kinda hot (I mean, they ARE on the dark side, after all).
Jedi are ALL boring lays
I watched a film called “Dogs Don’t Wear Pants” on Shudder this weekend about a guy who got into being choked by a dom after nearly drowning, and some of that same Dom/Dog energy was palpable between those two on this episode of “Andor”. I could definitely see that happening to a much lesser degree on this show.
They could definitely take their relationship in a couple of different fucked up directions. Syril would be extremely easy for her to manipulate so that could be an interesting dynamic, or they could crush him to the point that he actually snaps and goes full Psycho on his mom or kills one of Dedra’s professional rivals to try to impress her. That might be too dark even for this show, but there’s definitely buildup to another threshold he’s yet to cross before he’s fully unraveled.
Kind of a cute Nazi though
If they are assigning prisoners into a new level after their sentence is up, how do they expect the prisoner not to tell everyone on the new level?
I was wondering the same thing. I think what happened is that (a) as part of the crackdown, when they “release” prisoners from Narkina 5 they’re actually just sending them to other prisons; (b) the prison bureaucracy screwed up and routed a Narkina 5 prisoner back to Narkina 5.I can’t see that plan working for long if everyone in the Imperial prison system now has an indefinite sentence—shuffling “released” inmates between prisons has the same problem as shuffling them between levels on Narkina 5. But it seems like the kind of delaying tactic the bureaucrats on this show might come up with while they figure out how to administer a prison system that’s now going to be full of pissed-off lifers.
It’d be funny if it only happened because the prison officials were ordered to not release any prisoners without any further guidance and they’re like “wait what? how??” and shuffling them around was the best they could think of. And then it blows up in their face.
Normally that would feel like a narrative contrivance, but they’ve spent so much time dramatizing the inefficient Imperial bureaucracy that it might be the likeliest explanation.
Maybe one of the levels is for all of the prisoners who have had their sentences extended. So when you show up there and tell everyone “Guess what, my sentence ended but they just gave me a new sentence and moved me to this level” everyone therewill tell you “Yeah, that’s what happened to *all* of us here.”
During Bix’s torture scene and it’s revealed that the torture technique they’re using is the worst sound ever, I immediately wondered how quickly that scene will be forever memed by people dropping in a song by Nickelback or yodeling or something equally annoying.
More than anything, Andor has been a display about the banality of evil and how people live their lives as their world around them slides into fascism.
The fact this show maintains its compelling tension despite the fact the outcomes are all preordained is truly remarkable.
Also, this is really the first take on the period between the prequel and original trilogies that actually fully clicks and makes sense to me. I never fully bought the whole timeline of the Jedi being eradicated and the Empire rising a mere 20 years-ish before A New Hope, but this series makes the latter at least disturbingly plausible.
“How many guards are there on each level?” Kino doesn’t flinch. “Never more than 12,” he answers right back.
When it ended with this I yelled out, YES!!! This show has some REALLY great writing on top of the cast. Every time an episode ends I want it to go on forever.
What are the odds Kino Loy makes it out alive? It seems like he’s being set up for a heroic yet tragic death.
Ulaf’s slow physical breakdown over the last two episodes reminded me King Viserys’ breakdown on House of The Dragon.
I can’t get over how good the acting is on this show. All of them are universally good, with no flaws, and Diego Luna and Genevieve O’Reilly really stand out. But Denise Gough as Dedra Meero is operating on another level. She IS that character, and her eyes alone deliver such a crazy amount of storytelling.I find myself just fascinated by her character every moment she’s onscreen, as one minute you’re completely rooting for her to succeed, the next you’re disgusted by her actions and how dedicated she is to the evil of her role and employer, and it takes such an acting talent to so perfectly thread that needle.Really amazing stuff, if she went on to have a big role in future movies I’d be all for it.
She’s Andor’s Kim Wexler
“The Star Wars fanfare and logo that precedes any of its Disney+ offerings show where Lucasfilm’s priorities lie: Helmets and droids or, in other words, merchandisable iconography. Something Andor has absolutely no interest in. Respect.”B2EMO is part of the fanfare/logo. 🙂 But that’s it.