Another stunning Mare Of Easttown heals its heroine and reveals its culprit
TV Reviews Mare of Easttown
There’s a moment of almost unbearable suspense in “Sore Must Be The Storm,” the penultimate episode of Mare Of Easttown’s stellar limited run. It comes in a sequence late into the episode, when the action cuts between Jess as she’s trying to evade Dylan and Sean, while across town, Carrie drifts to sleep, leaving Drew unsupervised in an overflowing bathtub. The tension is absolutely palpable at the moment Jess is discovered and dragged out from her hiding spot as Drew appears to have drowned in the tub with his mother inches away. It’s a moment only made possible by a narrative environment in which anything can happen and anyone can die, which Mare has somehow managed to do in just five episodes. In the wake of Colin Zabel’s death, there was no taking for granted that either Jess or Drew would make it out of the episode alive.
Consequences come hard and fast in Easttown, and the worst-case scenario never feels more than three dramatic beats away. So for as quiet as it is, the final scene packs every bit as much punch as the season’s other deft cliffhangers. Mare is last seen walking with purpose near the Lehigh River, where the Brothers Ross have come for one last fishing trip before Billy reports to turn himself in for the murder of Erin McMenamin. Here’s what we know: Mare is headed to arrest Billy now that the rescue of Katie Bailey has earned her badge back. We know that Mare, true to renegade-cop form, dismissed Chief Carter’s reasonable request that she wait on backup. (Rather than stopping, she actually accelerates after the call.) We know there’s a gun in the tackle box at Billy and John’s fishing trip. We know Chief Carter has possession of a photo that will change Mare’s understanding of the murder. What happens from here is anyone’s guess.
Before we unpack the rest of the episode, now’s a good time to sit with the fact that Billy Ross, brother to John, cousin to Kenny, and cousin once-removed to Erin, is who would be referred to in the SNL spoof as “the one that did the murder.” The exact details of the murder haven’t been shaded in, but most of the picture is in focus. Apparently, as Mare pieces together with a combination of smart police work and dumb luck, Billy and Erin began their ill-fated dalliance during a Ross family reunion in the Poconos. Billy is the father of D.J., who is named after a guy who remains the prime suspect in Erin’s murder.
It always feels weird to talk about this kind of tragic, naturalistic murder-mystery in terms of whether or not the culprit is “satisfying,” but it’s a necessary conversation. Especially since HBO’s last buzzy limited series, The Undoing, left a chunk of its audience complaining that it settled for having the most obvious suspect turn out to be the killer along. Mare goes a very different direction, eventually landing on a killer who is slightly unexpected but has been hiding in plain sight all along. The interconnectedness of Easttown is jarring and frequently confusing, but the upside of setting a murder-mystery in a town this tightly knit is that Erin’s killer was always bound to be someone we’ve seen before, if only in passing. All that said, Billy as the killer is satisfying in that it’s both plausible and packs an emotional punch.
The Billy reveal is not a complete surprise, of course, given the scene in last week’s episode that very deliberately placed Billy among Mare’s running list of possible killers. But the details are new, and the episode fills them in at a furious pace. A T-shirt discovered next to Freddie Hanlon’s dead body gets Mare asking questions about the family reunion, and her dogged questioning reveals both that Erin stayed in Billy’s mostly vacant cabin during the trip, and that he gifted her a romantic necklace that she later tried to return. To fully tie it up with a bow, Mare circles back to Lori, who admits the secret John told her to keep after learning about it from his father. The reveal leaves a lot to be digested in the upsized finale. After all, Billy was there comforting Kenny after Erin’s body was discovered, and he found Kenny drunk in the creek after Kenny shot Dylan. That’s some serious salt in Kenny’s wounds.
Mare has wounds too, but she’s just now exposing them to fresh air. “Sore” reveals the killer whose identity has been a matter of speculation for weeks, but it’s even more compelling in its quieter moments when Mare finally begins to confront her demons. As Mare’s therapist tells her after Mare shares the story of Kevin’s death, she’s been hiding behind other people’s grief. The point lands especially hard, considering that when the episode opens, not long after Mare has been released from the hospital after a near-death experience that took a friend’s life, she’s playing the caretaker with Lori. After all, she’s been through, Mare’s defensive empathy kicks in automatically and she comforts her friend over John’s infidelity. Later, she’s apologizing to Richard for going to dinner with Colin, trying to soothe whatever soreness he might have about her missing his birthday.
When Mare finally tells the story of Kevin’s death in a wrenching, magnificent monologue, all the trauma and familial tension we’ve seen unfold over the season makes perfect sense. The other huge reveal in the episode comes when Mare confesses she instructed Siobhan to go to the house to check on Kevin rather than do it herself. As a result, it’s Siobhan who actually discovered her brother’s body before calling her mother in hysterics. In all likelihood, Mare was freighted with responsibility to her community before Kevin died. But after Kevin’s death, after Siobhan was left to discover what was in the attic while her mother ran errands, Mare’s vigilance no doubt became hypervigilance. I’d guess it was sometime after Kevin’s death when Betty Carroll gained the ability to call Mare’s cell phone to complain about potential prowlers.
Mare comes a long way in the episode, far enough that she’s ready to take responsibility for Siobhan’s pain and apologize for the way things happened. Of all the compliments this show deserves, the highest among them is the fact that Mare’s journey out of her grief-stricken stupor is just as compelling and nuanced as any of the show’s mysteries.
Stray observations
- The catalyst for Mare’s breakthrough comes after the devastating scene in which Mare goes to Mrs. Zabel’s house to offer her condolences. The response–a brisk slap on each side of Mare’s face–is understandable, but crushing all the same.
- That scene reminded me so much of a similar one from In The Bedroom, where Marisa Tomei tries to apologize to Sissy Spacek for an equally shocking death she bears partial responsibility for. Apparently, in fictional bedroom communities, if you played a role in someone’s death, that person’s mother gets to slap you stupid and there’s not much you can say about it.
- I’m dying to know the full story with Dylan, Jess, and Sean, the reason why Dylan says the three are linked forever by a secret. A secret so terrible it’s worth Dylan threatening to shoot Jess in the face. Even though Jess produces that surprise photo near the end of the episode, I’m not yet convinced that Billy will be fully exculpated by what’s in it.
- Although, Billy may believe taking responsibility for killing Erin (when he might have just, say, moved her body to the creek) is his penance, much like when Deacon Burton takes the fall in part because he refuses to reveal where his bruises actually came from.
- Imagine getting caught cheating on your wife after she hears you tell your kid to keep a secret, then coming back like, “Okay, so maybe keeping secrets hasn’t super worked out for me in the past, but just go with me on this…”
- I’m wondering if Carrie fell asleep during Drew’s bath because she was just so exhausted from the crazy hours she’s been working, or if she doubled back and took her friend up on one of her “Energizer bunnies,” only to crash at the exact wrong time.
- DJ Anne insists Siobhan pursue a spot in the Berkeley program even though it will make their relationship more of a consequential fling. DJ Anne is definitely a keeper, and telling Siobhan to go might be just the thing that makes her determined to stay.
- Dylan seems to have healed really quickly after the shooting that nearly took his ability to walk, but I quibble.
- I embarrassingly biffed it last week on the reveal of Helen’s affair with Glen Carroll. I could have sworn he said Mrs. Fahey and I was tickled by the idea of Glen cheating with the mother of his wife’s tormentor.
262 Comments
Isn’t the character’s name Billy, not Tommy?
Yeah, Joshua must have mistaken him with his twin brother from Wandavision.
Jesus Christ. Last week it was completely missing the fact that Jean Smart’s character was the “other woman” and now this.
right?
It’s unforgivable. Where do I get my tar and feathers?
Yes. And it makes the review really hard to read.
Has been changed above, thanks everyone!
Gwen, you’re so polite. I would’ve said, “Has been changed above, now stfu.”
It is kind of a big mistake. It’s not like the OP was a dick about it.
I just had to stop reading halfway through. I for sure thought the character’s name was Billy, so was confused that he was being referred to as “Tommy.” There are a lot of characters to keep track of, so I thought maybe I was the one who misremembered haha.
I think it’s time we move Alston back to Slideshow Listicles for a while…
I embarrassingly biffed it last week on the reveal of Helen’s affair with Glen Carroll. I could have sworn he said Mrs. Fahey and I was tickled by the idea of Glen cheating with the mother of his wife’s tormentor.He still didn’t get this right, either.
I always imagine there being a cigar-chomping chief of the AV Club.“ALSTON! MY OFFICE! NOW!”“You wanted to see me, chief?”“Well, guess who I just got off the phone with after getting my ass chewed out for half an hour? The mayor. She watches Mare of Easttown, Alston. AND she reads your column. And she’s PISSED, boy is she ever pissed.‘TOMMY’? WHO THE FUCK IS ‘TOMMY’?! THE GUY ‘S NAME IS ‘BILLY’! AND THEN YOU KEEP REPEATING IT OVER AND OVER AGAIN! ‘TOMMY’ THIS AND ‘TOMMY’ THAT! After that ‘Lahey/Fahey’ debacle last week she was ready for me to shitcan you, but I stood up for you. I told her you were a good writer, an asset to the AV Club, but I can’t stick up for you any longer. One more fuck-up, one more screw-up, one more ‘TOMMY’, and I’LL BUST YOUR ASS DOWN TO LISTICLES SO FAST IT’LL MAKE YOUR HEAD SPIN! NOW GET OUTTA MY OFFICE!”
I would watch this show.
Unfortunately the title Hacks is already taken.
Well they gotta pump these reviews out pretty quick. And I don’t even think they barely have editors. It happens. Purple monkey dishwasher.
Might want to find and replace all of those “Tommys” for Billy here.
Kate Winslet probably was an Emmy favorite for this the moment her name got put above the title, but dammit if that scene where she recounts the day Kevin died doesn’t win her all the awards.
For me it was the simple moment when she broke down in front of her mom after getting slapped by Colin’s mom. I’ve done that kind of crying, when you’ve got nothing left and all you want to do is have your mom hug you and tell you it’ll be okay, no matter how old you are. Brilliant.
Goin’ to Colin’s house was a dumb useless scene and out of character for Mare. Whole scene was just so she could get slapped … it didn’t serve a thing as we already knew how Mrs Zabel would act. Did she really expect a warm hug, maybe come inside for a cold Rock and pretzel … nah, the scene was there just so Mare could get slapped. Lazy writing. Her therapist said she didn’t grieve for son or Erin and then conveniently misses adding the impact of watching her PD partner get his head opened up on the case. What the fuck — bad therapist and bad writing there folks. As much as I like the series I’m really getting whiplash over the genuinely good scenes like sobbing with her Mom or the walk through that day her son died and the petty filler scenes like closing down Richard or meeting therapist/Mrs Zabel. It was 2nd to last ep so they went to a checklist to close story loops — and that closure wasn’t really needed. At this point, this close to the reveals do we really give a crap about Richard?
The scene with the mom wasn’t lazy writing, it served at least two obvious purposes, here’s the one you missed. The second obvious purpose was to show how the near-death experience has un-stuck Mare (as it does it many people). She’s trying to grow, trying to do better or at least do different than she would have done. Pre-near-death Mare wouldn’t have gone to see that mother, no. But this Mare will. Just as this Mare confesses to Richard about her blowing off his birthday party for a date. Just as this Mare is vulnerable with her mother, and this Mare chooses to confront her anxiety over hero worship and open up about her son’s death. You’re not supposed to give a crap about Richard, you’re supposed to give a crap about Mare’s growth as reflected in how her interaction with Richard is very different now.Lest you think I’m just defending the show, I’ll now tell you an actual lazy piece of writing: the drug addict having gone to the father with a sob story is out of nowhere (we had no idea they had any connection, and even with a connection, it isn’t clear how or why a drug addict would have hit up someone both inconvenient to reach and not in a situation to be helpful). Additionally, a drug-addict doesn’t hold on to things that are convertible and tosses whatever isn’t. A more reasonable arc would have been that he heard Kevin was locked up, and took the opportunity to break in, and grabbed a box Kevin had stacked up for church charity or whatever, which had some convertible stuff but also included clothing such as the shirts.
Freddie, Beth’s addict brother, seems known by all his contemporaries in town. Yes, Freddie told Kevin that he didn’t have new clothes for his daughter (assuming with her mother) and Kevin told him to take what he wants as Freddie tries to get anything he could possible sell or swap. It was very convenient for Mare to find the clothing and pull that family retreat tee out of the bag. That was too convenient … short day in the writers’ room.
Maybe if she taught her son to be a better detective he wouldn’t have hesitated so long and got domed imoslap yourself lady
yes, all parents should teach their children detective skills before you ask
maybe to be quicker on the draw … the dude nodded on the Winstons to Mare and already knew Potter was sketch but for some reason but for some reason went all Barney Fife. Fuck, when the pipes were dancing out of the wall that woulda been a giveaway something was wrong. Draw dude!
Oh my goodness yes. When she was crying like that I was just in complete awe. I’ve cried like that a couple of times this past year and I can’t ever imagine what it would take to do that on command as an actor. I was sitting there agape thinking “Just give her all the awards right now”. And then give the supporting actress ones straight to Jean Smart. That look of pain on her face, the pain only a mother knows when her child is that broken and devastated. Everything about that scene just slayed.
I teared up. Was brilliant. Would have been even stronger without the flashback. That’s how strong her performance was … it would have IMPROVED without the visual.
I agree that Winslet delivers everything the scene needs with her performance alone, though I thought the flashback still worked too. I think the brief level of franticness it adds to the scene is helpful.But independent of all of that, on a plot level I think the decision to reveal that Mare unwittingly got Siobahn to discover Kevin’s body, unintentionally traumatizing her in the process, provides such a rich additional color to her characterization. And leaving it until the sixth episode to reveal was perfect – in many shows this would feel like information that was unnecessarily held back, but here it makes a lot of sense to hold that information back. The real issue that Mare has been ignoring hasn’t so much been Kevin’s death overall, but specifically the trauma that Mare (again, wholly unintentionally) inflicted on Siobahn. It’s the guilt from that which I don’t think Mare even realized she was holding until this episode with the therapy session and Siobahn’s breakdown, and revealing it to the audience at the same time as Mare’s realization is a terrific way to place us in her shoes.
Testing
The number of times the name “Tommy” appears in this recap is absolutely astounding. Also John is pretty clearly the one who put the gun in the tackle box, so yeah, John knows about the gun.
so you’re saying it’s John’s gun and not Chekov’s … ok, got it!
who is Tommy?
He plays a mean pinball.
That’s correct! You have $400 and control of the board.
“Fat guy in a liiittle coat. Fat guy in a little coooat.”
also, i got the distinct impression that John put the gun in the tackle box and Billy accidentally saw it? did i read that scene wrong?
That’s how I read it too.
Same.
He did. It was clear as rain. Almost as odd as missing out that it was the Mare’s mother who slept with the newly widowed man last week, these points are so clearly made obvious so we won’t miss them that… I dunno. I guess you can miss stuff when trying to crank out a review…
wait — you’re thinking Mare’s mom slept with the new widower just recent like rather than the truth she slept with him years ago … before his missus died … right? You do understand … ?
I do understand completely, I just worded my post very poorly because I couldn’t remember Glen and Betty’s names (I think those are their names) and didn’t bother to look them up so called him “the newly widowed man”. I didn’t think Mare’s mom slept with him in the… wha, 24-48 hours after she died before the wake, no 😛
though betcha there are plenty of randy old people in Eastown … swinger central yo
Mare’s mother who slept with the newly widowed man
That whole thing was so damn funny. I’m so glad Mare finally got a good laugh at her mother’s expense, cause honestly Jean Smart’s been getting some of the best lines. I seriously love how good everybody in this production is.
Yes, I LOVED their scene in the car (after they, I assume, hastily made their exit from the wake). Did the reviewer simply miss this scene altogether since it made it *clear*, for anyone who didn’t realize before, who the woman he’d been “cheating” with was?
Yep. Writing while watching a TV show while chewing gum is tricky.
It was obvious. John so wanted to get to the tackle box first when they arrived at the cabin but Tom-errr Billy grabbed it quickly because he knew it was in there.
I think you are correct, and frankly, I thought it was kind of dumb on the part of the show. I mean, lets be real. If you’re packing a gun for (likely) nefarious purposes, maybe you shouldn’t let your victim handle the box that contains said weapon?
Nope you did not read it wrong.
Saw it too, which makes me think that John is the actual killer, not Billy. Even so, there’s still much to know about their whereabout and circumstance surrounding her death.
Yeah, setting up a self-defense alibi. “He confessed to me that he killed Erin, but now he has to kill me. He reached in to his tackle box and pulled out the gun that killed Erin. So, I shot him with this other gun. So, case closed.”Also, I think they were all having sex with Erin. John, Billy, Ryan, Mare’s ex, the police chief, maybe Dylan, … both before and after DJ’s birth. That’s where the ear surgery money came from.
Youre correct. But it really is a stupid place to hide a gun if you’re planning on going on a fishing trip.
This guy sure does write a lot of words but he is not a good recapper or thoughtful reviewer.
I was probably more afraid for Drew since I remembered from the previews Jess has another scene with Mare. I was hoping they give us a look at the photograph at least.
I honestly did not think this show needed to go on after “Illusions” because I didn’t know there were 7 episodes. So understand, I thought this series ended with Mare surviving the shootout, the loose threads intentionally left untended and how ballsy that was.Glad I was wrong and that came to the fore with seeing once again some incredible performances by a cast so large with each delivering superb performances. Tonight it was Joe Tippett as “John” and Robbie Tan as “Billy” (who’s Tommy?) . The other reason was how accomplished this show can tighten the vice. From Colin’s Mom slapping Mare twice (that shocked the shit out of me and I was unsettled the whole hour) to so many secrets kept, revealed and the danger each reveal leads. Quite the first class drama that HBO so excels in.
That would have been a terrible ending if they ended the series with the writers never even coming close to revealing who the killer was. I mean, I don’t know if “ballsy” is the word I’d use if they left every single plot thread dangling with no resolution.
Same thing happened to me. I binged the first five episodes this weekend. And looked up how many episodes there were and everything said 5 episodes (apparently they meant how many had aired, but that wasn’t clear). I was so mad. I couldn’t believe it though so looked a little more thoroughly and was relieved to find there were two more episodes.
The guy’s name is Billy and it is fairly obvious that John is the actual killer (he is likely in the picture given to the Chief. He does know the gun is there, he put it there. Billy discovered it while packing and knows John is pulling a Fredo with him which is why he grabbed it out of the truck.
I also think it is possible that the baby-daddy is in fact Ryan and that John killed Erin to keep it covered up. The pendant is much more of a teenager thing to buy and the receipt just said “Ross”.I think the other reveal will be that Mare’s Ex helped with the disposal/coverup. There is a shot in that first episode of the three of them at the bar looking really sketchy that has no other reason to be there.
Ryan is John’s son, correct? yeah, whatever is going on with Ryan knowing about John’s affair definitely has more layers that need to be peeled back. i wouldn’t be surprised if John was talking about Erin to Ryan when the power was out and Lori overheard them.
I don’t know that John’s having an affair (this time). Lori told Mare that last time it happened she (Lori) knew, as there were all sorts of signs, but this time it just came right out of the blue. Also, John dodged the question with his dad: his explanation for why he’s moved out was ‘Lori thinks I’m having an affair’, and when his dad challenges him (‘Lori thinks you were having an affair or you were having an affair?’) John just sort of shrugs without saying anything. I think John’s tacitly going along with the ‘I had an affair again’ suspicion because bad as that is, it’s believable because he has form in that area, and also it’s way better than what he’s actually guilty of.
I definitely think Ryan is part of it, but I’m wondering about the scene where John compels Billy to admit to killing Erin.
I think Billy is a black-out drunk and John basically talked him into it because while Billy knows he had something to do with it he can’t exactly remember what happened. John has to convince him he did it to make him a scapegoat since their dad saw Billy bloody that night which would lead to questions.
Ah, yeah, that would make sense.
My sediments exactly!
Just reading through all of these comments now, what makes the most sense in my head is that 1) John is actually the father of Erin’s baby, 2) Ryan killed Erin, probably because he found out John was the father and he blamed Erin for his parents’ marital strife, 3) to protect his nephew, Billy helped move the body to cover up the murder, and 4) the confession scene was John coaxing Billy into taking the fall, once again to protect Ryan.
I think you’ve figured it out, honestly. Gonna be an action-packed finale that will probably strain the boundaries of credulity, unfortunately.
I think you are probably right about all these things. Also, Billy yelling at John to take care of his own mess (paraphrasing) was clearly about something else and not just the marital strife with Lor. Also, John has that photo he had taken of Mare’s ex which was supposed to be an alibi for the ex, but it’s also an alibi for John. So John was probably not killing Erin at that time, but was called in (maybe Ryan panicked and called him because it seems like Erin’s death was accidental?), and Billy was also there, resulting in them setting up the body to look like some serial killer thing.
Yeah but there’s also that scene where Billy goes off and yells at his dad about how John’s never held accountable for anything. That was definitely a pointed comment.
Yeah, great point. Maybe they’re both part of the killing?
I’m angry at myself for reading your theory. I know it’s not a spoiler, but sounds highly plausible and if it were so, I wanted to be fully stunned at the reveal. If you are right, damn you and well done.
I thought the ending makes it pretty obvious that it’s going to be John in that photo. Otherwise, why would it be used as a cliffhanger? We already know the police (or at least, Mare) are on their way to the cottage to arrest Billy. Why would the chief have to call Mare over this new development?
YES. The chief has to call Mare to warn her that she’s about to head into a situation where she thinks one brother is a killer and the other is just trying to help him, when the reality is that both are dangerous. The photo has to be of Erin with John – the “Ross” on the jewelry receipt is a huge clue that she has the wrong brother in her sights.
There is also the loose thread about why the negative paternity test still caused a rift with his fiancee.
Yeah Mare’s ex is just too good to be true. And his fiance didn’t just leave him over a paternity test. She knows something.
Ryan surely would have been way too young to be the baby daddy to an infant, no? But I agree with you otherwise–I read this review and thought I was going crazy with ZERO mention about John telling Billy what to say, packing the gun, etc (points that while watching the show I wondered if they were making too obvious–I guess not?)
Correct. I’m not sure why everyone keeps saying Ryan is the father. Ryan is ten now and DJ is maybe 8-10 months? So Ryan would have been having sex at age 8? It’s highly unlikely and if it WERE the case, he was unable to consent to any sexual actions at that age.
Have they said somewhere he is 10? I thought he was 15 or 16 in the show, which would be borderline (I think the show takes place in 2019, not 2021), but still possible. If he is 10 then ya he is way too young.
That would be a very, very small 15 year old. He’s still in elementary/middle school, as shown in the scene in which he beat up the bully who was torturing his sister. Those kids were middle school, maaaaybe junior high at best, and Ryan didn’t look like the oldest kid there.
I’ve been trying to figure this out. They never say how old Ryan is, but show him attending middle school. That could make him as old 14 (some middle schools in PA go up to grade 9). The baby had just turned 1, so it is possible for Ryan to be the father. It just seems unlikely to me, now that we know something strange went on in the cabin in 2017, when Ryan could only have been 9. It also seems unlikely he would have $100+ dollars to buy that charm.
My guess is that John is the father of the baby, but Ryan was the shooter. Billy taking the fall for his nephew’s crime makes more sense to me than him taking the fall for his brother.
Oh, I hadn’t even thought of Ryan as the shooter, but I think that’s a decent theory, for sure. But, I’m glad so many others agree with me in thinking that Ryan is the father just seems utterly ludicrous and next to nearly physical impossible (and now that I’ve said that, it’s so gonna be Ryan as the father, right? 😛 )
This. That kid looks like he is 14 years old now, and the sex occurred back in 2017. If that theory turns out to be true, I will be disappointed and shocked.
I think it’s Lori and John is using Billy to cover for her.
Yep, John abused his niece and DJ is likely his son. John is a known serial adulterer and said he, Erin & Billy drank a lot and stayed in Billy’s cabin … likely while his wife was in another cabin with the kids. I’m thinking both John and Billy took advantage of Erin and the receipt at the jeweler only had “Ross” so either John or Billy bought the necklace. John kills Billy, faking a suicide, so Erin’s murderer is outed and Billy takes the fall for sex with Erin & being DJs father. DNA close enough between brothers as it’s never a 100% match and who questions paternity now with the loose ends in a bow? John is truly a fucker … he ruins Erin, Erin’s father Kenny, and Billy’s lives in addition to his wife Lori’s and their kids. I’m worried the denouement will be Billy pulling the gun on John and having John explain aloud (over the sound of the river) the whole story while Mare listens from just out of frame. Would they really be that trite?
My first thought was that Billy didn’t kill her but he helped move the body. Idk why or how John’s getting him to take the fall, but John is my go-to for the murderer.
OK so it settled. Billy, for whatever reason, has decided to take the rap for John. Cos thats definitely the vibe i was already getting before the photo.
I’m still not so sure. I think Erin turns to Billy as someone who knew about her secret affair with his brother. She lived with him for a bit, remember, although he is uncomfortable even trying to recall for how long, possibly because he allowed the affair to continue in his home during that time. But let’s say Erin decided to get the $$ for DJ’s surgery from John, or she’d tell everyone he’s the father. Billy knows this would destroy the family (including Lori and the kids) and tries to talk her out of going public and winds up killing her to stop her. I think Ryan saw/overheard his father with Erin when she went to him for the $$, and is destroyed by the knowledge that his dad impregnated his teenage cousin. I don’t think Ryan has anything to do with the killing, but he fears that his father is involved. The reason Lori said this time was different is that John isn’t currently having an affair as he said (to cover up what Ryan saw – which was just Erin demanding $$ of him as the baby daddy) and the usual clues that he’s being unfaithful aren’t there.
…reveals its culpritBut did it really? What the hell did John mean by “what went on up there”? It sounds like he knows something more than he’s letting on, or that we’ve been allowed to see. My feeling is that he’s as guilty, or even more so, than Billy. It felt like he was coercing Billy to admit total guilt, but he doesn’t want him to confess because he knows he’ll be implicated too. And Billy’s wariness at the fishing spot, and his preoccupation with the gun, it felt like he was afraid of John or what John might do. I just wonder what’s in the photo and how that ties in with Dylan and Jess, because whatever it was, it apparently told the chief a lot at a single glance.
Yep yep. The fact that scene isn’t even mentioned in this review is damn weird–especially since it seems obvious he suggested the fishing trip so he could shoot Billy…
I’m gonna be pissed-as-fuck if a goddamn photo clears this all up. Youse tellin’ me Chief gets it all figured out from some Polaroid? Ya, fuck dat….
Assuming Billy or John is the killer, what is Dylan doing/hiding?Jean Smart deserves an Emmy. She can do it all.
I think he (and Jess who has already admitted as such) were part of Erin’s prostitution which was detailed in the journals and was more extensive than what Jess has admitted (as shown by the wad of cash in the envelope Dylan stole). He left his house to go find her that night because he wanted to make sure his “asset” was okay after her beatdown.
Maybe, but then the fight over the money for the ear operation is weird.
Not really. He was holding out on her and she was complaining about it without saying where the money really came from.Just speculating, but unrelated criminal activity is all that makes sense to me as I don’t think he was involved in the murder.
Does the baby have an effed-up ear because his parents are incestuous?
hmm … he was out of his house at 2am, Erin was killed like 1am – 4am (seems that was what the coroner said) … so wouldn’t there be phone records of missed calls from Dylan? In this day & age the kids (I’m old) don’t drive anywhere without text/call … so did Erin have a burner phone? Did they pull phone records for Dylan for that night, seems that woulda made sense. Just not sure how Dylan is involved in her death, if at all.
My guess is that what they are hiding has nothing to do with the murder, which is why Jess was willing to help him destroy the journals. I think Dylan might be a small time drug dealer, and Erin wrote about it in her journals. Otherwise, how could Erin have excepted a teen with no apparent job to come up with money for the ear surgery (nearly $2K)?
I’m not sure why Jess was helping him destroy evidence of that, although there could be a lot of reasons (maybe she’s involved, her mom’s involved, Erin was involved, or she’s just a sucker). I’m just glad that when she stumbled upon evidence of the baby’s real father (and possible), she decided that was more important than covering for Dylan and whoever else.
Billys brother John is the real killer. Who is Tommy lol?
Anyone notice how John says that Lori “thinks” he was having an affair?
Ooo, good catch! I have to say that, while I think the show’s more than a bit over- and under-written (if that makes sense), they certainly have set things up for a finale that could go in a lot of directions – and probably some no one has anticipated.
I embarrassingly biffed it last week on the reveal of Helen’s affair with Glen Carroll. I could have sworn he said Mrs. Fahey and I was tickled by the idea of Glen cheating with the mother of his wife’s tormentor.He did say Mrs. Fahey! Jean Smart’s character is named Helen Fahey. The graffiti artist is Someone Lahey.
I’m gonna hold out and say Billy is, at best, not the lone culprit and at worst, is being setup as a fallguy who only thinks he’s the killer. I feel like there’s someone else behind this, and it seems like Billy is a lot more afraid of what could happen at that lake, than of actually going to prison for life.
I got an early glimpse at tomorrow’s feature article that is definitely not spon con:
“Mare of Easttown is the Finest Synthesis of Fiction and Non since In Cold Blood, and It Is all Due to Angourie Rice.”
Oddly enough the definitely-not-spon-con related to this seems to have disappeared over the past two weeks.
I’m thinking John is the killer or at least he and Billy together and has somehow convinced him it was only him and/or to take the fall for him. His son witnessed it or witnessed his dad with Erin at recent some point. But I can’t help but feel like there’s something else because that just doesn’t seem like enough of a reason for his wife to lie to Mare to help put the blame on just Billy
The son is involved for sure, we’ve just had so many scenes of him floating around, this episode where he’s just in the foreground hanging out, a prior one where we get a scene basically just of him reacting to “dead/missing girl” news on the TV with the family a couple weeks ago.All the Ross stuff especially in this episode is misdirection: the jewelry receipt is just “Ross,” we get the story about Billy but not the details, John’s seeming “fake Billy’s suicide” plan, the son’s earlier “confession” about the affair we haven’t actually seen (and his mother actually brought that up first and he just agreed, if I’m remembering), and that John just says is what his wife “thinks.”Someone’s protecting someone else, screwing over someone else, something along those lines.
Yea John 100% is forcing his brother is taking the fall, they prob are both covering for Ryan who was most likely the murderer and father. Mare is going to do something stupid and kill them both or one of them. Lori knows about her kid and helped set the wheels in motion which is why John asking her to not tell Mare doesnt seem extremely out of character for the show.
I think it makes sense for Ryan to be the murderer but not so much the father. The scene where he beat up his sister’s tormenter in the school cafeteria feels like foreshadowing and suggests that he may have killed Erin to protect someone else. I bet John is the father and Ryan killed Erin because he thought it would protect his dad.
WTF with this Ryan crap? Family retreat was 2017, so like 3 yrs before Erin dies and the baby is little enough that Erin was pregnant a year ago. Ryan is not some horndog middle schooler doing his cousin in his drunk uncles cabin. That is NOT the story. Sketchiest fucks are skeevy Deacon, Dylan, Billy, and now definitely John. Ryan is NO WHERE in this mix. Fuck, the kid cries over trying to keep his father’s affair secret so how the fuck would he act if he shot & killed his cousin?
Pretty sure the show takes place in 2019
I don’t think Ryan is the baby daddy, but he might be the murderer. 1. We’ve seen him rage on someone.2. The show has spent a lot of time on him, but not his sister.3. We had back-to-back scenes suggesting that John isn’t having an affair – Lor saying she had no idea and John telling his dad “Lor thinks I had an affair.”4. Ryan and John are keeping some secret.5. John convinced Billy to confess “for the family.”
I think everyone who thinks Ryan is involved in the murder is way off base. Makes no sense.What makes a lot more sense is that he caught John and Erin having an affair.When they first had that scene where Lori asks, “Is he doing it again?” Before they talk about an affair (or “other woman” I don’t remember exactly what they say), I thought he was molesting Ryan. It’s possible that some form molestation occurred beyond a relationship with Erin.
I completely agree. I have been mentioned in my family to like books, and I do. I usually read before getting to sleep and it really helps me get to sleep better (despite finding it very difficult to sleep most days). I do wish I could read more though. But with homework and faculty, It’s hard to seek out the time sometimes. Thanks, Amelia! Call Girls in Bangalore
I’m going surprise myself and be Gene Siskel for a second and say that the scene with Drew in the bathtub felt like a cheap stunt to generate suspense with a child in danger. And wasn’t, in that brief moment, fair to Carrie, who we’ve seen work hard to remain good. I immediately thought it would undo all the work depicting Mare as the one in the wrong because of her grief if she turned out to be right about Carrie as unfit mother.Her setting up Carrie with the drugs kind of has been too quickly brushed aside. The show has depicted Mare as she made this one big mistake, which she’s never done before because she’s meant to be good police. But I’m wondering how Carrie got out of the jam Mare put her in. Maybe they’re saving that for the finale where Mare will make a grand emotional speech at the court hearing admitting responsibility.
I thought it was clearly stated that the cops just brushed the drugs aside as, since they were actual drugs that had been missing from their evidence room, it absolutely would not hold up.
Oh, I guess I missed that part. But it’s a relief because I was worried about Carrie. I dislike it when characters are treated badly for outside-story reasons. Like John will probably be the killer because it had to be someone who intially we didn’t suspect and who seemed like a good guy since he was married to Mare’s best friend. But I’ll feel bad for Lori who will be devastated.
It was easy to miss—I think in some of the dialogue Mare’s chief said to her, but basically it would have been such an embarrassment to the department, that they just let it go.
I read that scene (and the one that sets it up, where Carrie gets offered the pills after saying she’s exhausted from working multiple low-paying jobs) as more of a comment on society/policy/whatever that insists that she get clean to get custody and then offers her no real support to stay that way and lead a “normal” life.
Also in real life she would not get custody back that quickly in PA and or unsupervised visits…If she was coming out of a halfway house Carrie would be getting drug tested and visits under supervision tops!!! This annoyed me to no end… New Jersey and PA are nuts about these types of things.
There might have been a too-subtly implied time-jump.
I think/hope they’re setting it up for Carrie to drop her custody suit. Mare needs that win.
I agree, except that I think maybe Carrie falling asleep while bathing the Drew sets us up to accept that in the finale Mare and Carrie may end up in sometype of shared custodial agreement. Mare already realizes she has to make nice with Carrie to see her grandson, and Carrie is also realizing she needs the family’s help to be a good mother.
eh, they’ve had a few cheap ‘suspense’ bits like that. DJ coming towards ‘his’ baby with the pillow comes to mind as well. I don’t begrudge a mystery show a few ‘playing to the crowd’ thrills of that sort, though
Absolutely this ^Both the face slap and this “near death experience” took this episode from an A to a B … for me. This is still a great, if not perfectly excellent show. But the doom-cloud that hangs over Easttown, though competently established, has at times triggered an eyeroll reaction from me. I fight the urge to eyeroll! I have not, in fact, done a full-on Liz Lemon eyeroll. The good-will column of fantastic actors is still too strong. But man, I’ve been sorely tempted a handful of times.
Erin’s murderer might be
– Billy- JohnWe don’t really know yet, the headline of this article notwithstanding.Erin’s murderer is not
– Deacon Mark- Dylan- Lori- Frank- Richard- Kenny
I’ve been assuming Richard has to be something… more. Why get (the usually great) Guy Pearce for such a not-so-special part if he’s not going to chew a few scenes at the end?!
I keep reading that he was a last-minute recast, so maybe he’s just doing it for the money and a chance to work with Winslet again.
And he’s shown in the preview for the finale – something smells a little. The finale will reveal whether this show is brilliant (Like Memento!) or just clumsy as hell. It’s been feeling more like the latter, but I’m open to being convinced!
“DJ
Anne is definitely a keeper, and telling Siobhan to go might be just
the thing that makes her determined to stay.”
Errrr…. did the screener copy leave out the later scene where Siobhan had a meltdown (partly edible and booze fueled) when Anne seemed to be ghosting her (as much as you can be ghosted in just a few hours)?
when Anne seemed to be ghosting her (as much as you can be ghosted in just a few hours)?IIRC, Anne was working, and she had thought Siobhan was attending some concert; that doesn’t seem like ghosting, as opposed to just being preoccupied.Not every person in the 21st century lives with their phone glued to their hand during every waking moment…
Yeah, I wasn’t as clear as I wanted to be—I thought my comment in parenthesis would be clear that I agree with your point. But to Siobhan it DID seem like ghosting and her overreaction seems to indicate to me that they aren’t as ideal a couple as the reviewer thinks they are.
My bad; it was me who wasn’t clear.I actually agree with your point; I concur that Siobhan’s overreaction is an indication that she’s not emotionally ready for a serious mature relationship, especially due to her trauma resulting from her brother’s suicide.
Also, Anne was already trying to get out of the relationship by telling Siobhan to go to UC Berkeley.Quick note to the young-uns: go to the best college that accepts you. You can and will be happier later, and if it doesn’t work out, it’s not a big deal.
Yeah… If Anne was actually avoiding Siobhan’s calls, I thought it was because she felt it was best to just cut things off there to push Siobhan towards Berkeley. I’m just saying Joshua Alston might wanna hold off on having his Siobhannie 4Ever t-shirt made…
Might also be that Anne would not respect someone who passes up Berkeley just for an infatuation. Then again, she was working, and maybe she has a rule not to get distracted while being on live radio. (Seriously, though, is there any reason for live radio? Just record it at your convenience.)
Oh yeah, that was my thought too. But really I think it was just meant to show us how not-ready Siobhan was for the relationship (she knew Anne was busy…) The university radio where I work still has a few late night call in shows, so I guess that could be a reason for live radio?
I’d say it’s easy to miss, as once Siobhan pops on screen a viewer’s eyes are likely to immediately glaze over. Her scenes just stop the show it its tracks. Thankfully, they’ve at least been short.
It seemed pretty obvious to me that Carrie fell asleep by the tub because she declined the uppers despite her fatigue because she was trying to be a better person (and mom).
It’s a way to garner viewer sympathy and suspense about the possible tragedy of the kid drowning even while his mom is doing the right thing. I don’t get why the writer even wondered if she doubled back for the pills. That wouldn’t make any narrative sense especially with only one episode left.
Agree. She said no and turned away didn’t she?
Yes. She paused, thought about it, then declined and turned away. It showed a character arc instead of just being the one note junkie mom for the whole series.
I got the sense that maybe it was setting up Carrie deciding to take pills in the next episode after all, on the other hand it’s the series finale… so maybe it literally was just what it was. A tired, overworked mother trying to get her act together and struggling.
That kind of set up can still fit a narrative. But the idea that she secretly came back for the pills off-screen after declining it, which may have led to her crashing by the tub is a huge stretch.
they still haven’t made clear that she has any intention of co-parenting with the rest of the family instead of taking the kid and running. They are going that way, but they may not get there.
for story, they want us to think Carrie is back to using and Mare, per what she said to her ex, then gave Carrie a chance to show she’s a Mom but guess she f’ed it up. I’m hoping writers did better and have her not use, have Mare & fam have to give up custody so Mare can work through her grief and has one less immediate dependent. Mare has used her job as a way to always be the caregiver or the protector to make up for what she wanted from her dad (who killed himself). But her family and friendships have suffered so maybe writers have her & fam lose DJ — Siobhan gets to move on, Carrie gets to prove herself, and Mare can’t make DJ replace her son so she has to get past the past. But then addicts use and relapse, so a simple, known storytelling way to have DJ stay w/ Mare. Dunno what’s right here — the likely truth is that Carrie will use again and loses custody (what is it? tired, angry, hungry can lead to using) while the story that she fights the urge and stays sober is a bit too shiny bright for Eastown.
You know, maybe I was totally wrong. That does make sense. I guess we’ll have to see in the finale. So many loose ends to tie up in one episode.
yes, she definitely wasn’t using in that scene. it just was to illustrate that we punish people for doing their best to survive, the ultimate coercion into repetitive substance use is a system that makes it nearly impossible for people like Carrie to ever get a stable footing again.
I’m pretty sure this was just a case of Chekhov’s Bathtub. We watched the conversation between Carrie and Jean Smart’s character a few episodes ago where she was warning Carrie never to leave him in the bath alone. I think this was the payoff for those seeds of thought the show planted in our heads then. We had been primed to think this would happen, but then they subverted it by the kid being fine. It would have been less shocking if he had died, tbh.
well yah, but narratively it’s showing that Cassie is doing the best she can. I think people interpreting it as a sign that she is back on drugs is deliberate in that we often are quick to judge drug users when her only neglect here was trying her best to provide for him. Or we are assuming the worst because the seeds were planted previously. Mare is giving her a chance because it’s the only way forward.
I think it’s set up this way for a specific reason and consequence. Carrie thinks she is doing better and therefore deserves to have Drew with her because she is saying no to drugs, including the uppers this ep. However, falling asleep because of how exhausted she and putting her son in possible danger makes her realize that just because she’s not doing drugs doesn’t mean she is in a place where she can take care of her child. If she is this exhausted, and she only has Drew for a night, how is she going to be able to manage full responsibility for a child everyday forever? I think in the last ep she is either going to tell Mare that she is holding off on the custody request for a bit more until she is in a better place, or she would like to share custody. While the potential drowning of Drew was played up as a thrilling moment for the audience, I think it’s really about Carrie’s realization.
I’m convinced this reviewer doesn’t actually watch the show and does these recaps based on conversations he overhears between people who do watch.
Mrs. F. and I picked up this late and were streaming it, thinking it was an HBO Max exclusive. Imagine our disappointment we had to wait several days for this episode and now a whole week until the conclusion.
I’m wondering if Carrie fell asleep during Drew’s bath because she was just so exhausted from the crazy hours she’s been working, or if she doubled back and took her friend up on one of her “Energizer bunnies,” only to crash at the exact wrong time. -I was thinking the opposite. That her falling asleep might cause her to start taking the energizer bunnies leading her back into drugs.
Agreed that she was just exhausted. I’m thinking she’ll stay clean, but go to Mare and say “I can’t do this, you keep custody” because her confidence will be rocked, and Mare will reassure her she can do this and be at peace with Carrie getting custody of Drew. It will be a wake-up call that will lead to an understanding and a more family/team effort in raising him than the combative dynamic that has existed.
Siobhan will go to Berkeley, Carrie moves in to her room. Happy ending.
I like that idea. If it doesn’t end with some healing and a positive path forward for the main characters, there’s no point to this whole show IMO. Also to amend my previous comment: this also works if Carrie starts using again and Mare finds out, which leads to a heart-to-heart and support instead of war between the two.
All that said, Billy as the killer is satisfying in that it’s both plausible and packs an emotional punch. Can’t agree. The red herrings thrown out were so friggin’ glaring that it could only ever be some random dudeguy we’ve seen for all of five minutes.And if that photo serves as a last-minute dodge to a more obvious killer…the fuck, man?
the only thing the photo could even suggest is a motive … but writers want us to believe that photo ties it all shut?
This show is so keen on just throwing more logs in the fire instead of letting the mystery play out that I’m sure the twist will be that it’s somehow neither of them. It’s Dawn, who figured the case of her missing daughter would ramp up if another girl died.
I do agree that the maxim has so far been pretty good that anybody the show gives you a shred of evidence or suspicion against, they’re in the clear. Eventually you can’t keep doing that… somewhere around 20-40 minutes into next week’s episode, maybe?I’m still holding out for Guy Pearce.
In my mind’s eye I still see Mare finally bothering to read that copy of his book he gave her, which (somehow?) contains the answer.This may be stupid.
Wasn’t Guy Pearce sleeping with Mare that night?
Don’t ruin my theory with your pesky facts.
Yeah, Dawn seemed way too apologetic to Mare, like she had something else she was apologizing for besides being angry at Mare.
As others have said, it’s pretty clear that John is intricately linked to the murder is someway. When he learned about Erin’s death, and in this episode when he learns from his dad that his brother was covered in blood, he appears way too calm, as if he already knew it. And he clearly put the gun in the tackle box after suggesting they go fishing in the woods…I’m not exactly sure what’s in the photo, but I’m sticking to my theory that Billy is the father, but did not kill Erin. Somehow John confronted her about it, and shot her. Billy probably helped move the body. Not sure what Ryan saw, but I don’t think he’s the father. He’d be way too young in 2017.
Exactly someone failed middle school health class…Every single person that says Ryan is the father needs to go back to 7th grade immediately
But the baby wasn’t conceived in 2017, unless the show is supposed to be taking place in 2019. I think Erin states the baby just turned 1 in the first episode.
I think you’re very close. The only difference I would suggest, is I think Billy *thinks* he killed her (maybe he knocked her out, or something) and when they were moving the body, she came too, and John finished her off, but Billy doesn’t know this.
Erin was shot in Brandywine park, that’s where they found the bullet & finger. Her body was dumped back at the bridge … so why? I don’t think there was any “finishing off.” Significance of the bridge seems to be to frame Dylan and his posse, not sure of any other reason.What was in Erin’s journals that Dylan threatened to shoot Jess over and Jess found the picture so she must’ve also read some juicy stuff. Dylan demanded no one read the journals, that they just burn the evidence. Erin ran off from bridge party and called the deacon (who is sketch as fuck) but somehow she wound up with Billy or John at Brandywine? Nothing in her phone records from that night pointed to anyone other than skeevy Deacon, so did she have a burner phone? Maybe and she was using that to set up meets to get $s for the ear surgery. Poor Erin is such a young innocent … teen mother, motherless daughter, verbally abused by her father, sexually abused by relatives, physically abused by BF & GF, and senselessly murdered.
I also feel like John told Lori not to tell Mare it was Billy because he knew Lori would tell Mare it was Billy.Maybe.
I dunno … not sure John is all that smart. He’s an evil & selfish fuck but I’m just not sure he’s smart enough to game that out.
Fair. It just definitely seemed like that wasn’t a conversation to take at face value either. Like what he told Lori was… something else entirely.
Sure he is. He KNEW Lori would run to Mare. Why would she trust him? He knew she wouldn’t.
Now this makes sense! John knows Lori will tell Mare everything. Get her to suspect Billy and then he sets up Billy’s fake suicide at the cabin. “He was so guilt-ridden, Mare, and I tried to stop him…”
“I also feel like John told Lori not to tell Mare it was Billy because he knew Lori would tell Mare it was Billy.”Absolutely right.
Another possibility, of course, is that there was an entirely different thing John asked Lori not to tell Mare. Maybe she did lie to Mare, and what he asked her not to tell to protect the family was actually not that family but her own nuclear family. John. Her son. Something like that. Because those are the bits they didn’t show us. What John said to Billy before “I need to hear you say it” and what John said to Lori before asking her to protect the family.
Of course, how could I have missed that…
My sediments exactly. No way Billy is the killer – John’s setting the whole thing up for him to take the fall (but putting the gun in the tackle box they both use doesn’t seem too smart – another example of clumsy story-telling, imho). And I think maybe John is the father – otherwise what would his motivation be? And he’s the one who has all the affairs – another mess caused, as Billy put it, by his inability to keep his dick in his pants (lots of double meanings in that encounter at their dad’s, I think). So John killed him, a very drunk Billy and Frank helped him deal with it, John has convinced Billy he did it (I’m thinking he recorded that conversation in which Billy “confessed” – “I need to hear you say it out loud”), and now has to kill him so the truth doesn’t come out. I suppose he would make up a scenario in which it’s self-defense? Or just hide Billy’s body and say he drowned?
He’s either convinced Billy that Billy did it, or convinced Billy to take the rap for it since Billy doesn’t have a wife and kids. The whole “I need to hear you say the words” could just be coaching him at something they practiced.
I don’t think that Ryan is the father, but the baby wasn’t conceived in 2017. DJ is probably less than 1.
I believe Mare writes down he was born in November 2018. So that’d put his conception about two years before the main story takes place.
I think it’s the opposite. John is the father and Billy knew about it and helped them carry the affair out and murdered her to protect his cousin (and himself).
I think you’re close, but we have to think about this in the context of the picture. What could the Chief have learned by glancing at the picture that would have led him to immediately call Mare to stop her from arresting Billy? It’s got to be a pic of John and Erin that looks intimate in some way. My guess is that John is DJ’s dad and he killed Erin to stop her from revealing the secret. Billy witnessed the killing and was wasted drunk. He helped John clean up the mess. Everything was fine until it is revealed that dad saw Billy a bloody mess later that morning. So John convinces Billy – a single, childless guy – to take the fall for him and not destroy John’s family. But John wavers … he isn’t convinced that Billy is going to confess to the police. He decides to take matters into his own hands and kill Billy at the cabin and (presumably) then make it appear as if he killed himself.AND YES, please stop with the Ryan stuff! Give me a fucking break!
1) Not sure how 1 pic and with whatever is in the pic can pull this all together — the pic is circumstantial. It cannot, by any means, be so primary to this case. 2) You’re positing that somehow Erin got in touch with John that night, after the bridge beating, and went to meet him in Brandywine? That she only called skeevy Deacon for a ride (at midnight) and that he drove her to Brandywine so she could meet somebody (John or Billy?) and she forgot her bike in skeevy Deacon’s Volvo? Also that Billy was a ride along with John in that early morning booty call out at Brandywine … for what purpose?3) Billy didn’t do a good job cleaning up the mess, he left 1/2 a finger behind. Erin was nude when found but I don’t think there was evidence of sexual assault, so why nude? She didn’t meet up and have sex so she met up at Brandywine for another purpose. And crazy it all came together in shut a short period of time that night. 4) John must know Billy gets blackout drunk, from back in the cabin during the retreat but how could he know Billy would drink/be drunk the night Erin was killed? That night is all too convenient … the end story is gonna be way less believable than Potter kidnapper/killer.
Yeah definitely a good point that the photo has to prove something. So my theory doesn’t quite jive with that.
I think the killer is Lori. She found out John was having an affair or got Erin pregnant at the party and that’s when it happen. And Billy helped her cover it up.
But what could possibly be in the photo that would clue in the Chief that Mare’s conclusion is wrong? I think it has to be John only because that’s the only photo (an intimate pic of John and Erin) that might lead the Chief to immediately reach out to Mare. A pic of Erin and Lori would raise no suspicion at all.
I think John is in the picture which proves the affair (or better term is sexual assault since she was a child and he is family) but that Lori killed her. Possibly with Tommy’s help. And I think because Lori went with Mare to that basketball thing should not have been consider a suspect at all and that is a red herring.
I don’t hate that theory. What if it’s some rando named Tommy and Josh is accidentally proven correct? Now that would be something.
I just think that Tommy and John is too obvious and that it being Lori would actually cause Mare a ton of pain. And this seems like one of those shows that likes to torture their main character. For an episode I thought it was Mare’s daughter because I thought it was really odd that Siobhan didn’t tell her mom that Erin got beat up. I know that they have a fraught relationship but not telling her mom seems out of character even with that.
Brad inglesby saw Happy Valley and said I can do that!!
The cliche of her not waiting for backup and turning off her phone really pissed me off. She just got out of hospital and lost her partner, but she’s going to plunge into a potentially dangerous situation for no good reason? It seems more like the writers saying , we neeed a climactic ending for the penultimate episode, break out the book of cop tropes!
That drove me CRAZY!! It didn’t seem like anyone was in imminent danger and I’m sure backup would have arrived within 10 minutes or less.
!!! ding, ding, ding !!!every cop knows violence is much more prevalent and frequent in families rather than with strangers. She just watched her partner get his head blown by a complete stranger and, as you point out, she did every goddamn wrong thing here racing to Lehigh River for what? She doesn’t know anything about the photo nor John’s intentions, she’s just hauling ass up to the cabin though Chief told her not too. I think John kills Billy and then Mare has to kill John … and Lori picks up her life with Richard (not sure about that last one) … and Rolling Rock sales spike a bit until everyone’s done binging this series.
I’ve always wondered what actual police officers think of movie/tv cops disregarding waiting for backup, etc,. Like, is that a serious no-no or is it something that actually happens all the time? It seems to me that doing stuff like that just puts the person doing it into a bad situation, no one to back you up, no additional witnesses. A lone police offficer sems much more vulnerable than someone with support.
I love that in the show after they pay terrific homage to Silence of the Lambs, they introduce a veritable “Chekhov’s gun” in the closing scenes of the penultimate episode. Super interested to see what these writers do next. (but I am kinda mad that they didn’t show the picture that the girl showed the police chief that I assume explains how Dylan and his bud are involved in this. At least they didn’t decide to schedule the finale the week after Memorial Day.)
Two Chekhovian guns: Dylan’s and the one in the tackle box.
I actually said “Oh, you FUCKERS” when the episode ended. What was the photo?! I’m leaning to yes Billy is actually the killer, but then what is up with Jess and Dirtbag Dylan? And why does John want to kill him before Billy can confess?? Maybe John is the actual killer and Billy just helped with the clean-up but thinks he did it because he was drinking too much?Finding out Siobhan discovered her brother’s body was crushing. And I don’t think Carrie took the uppers, I think she just fell asleep because she’s exhausted. So it doubly sucks that she’s trying to do all the right things, and still fucking up. Man, I really thought this show was going to kill off a toddler for a minute.I liked that they right away knew Erin’s murder wasn’t connected to the abduction/imprisonment of Katie Bailey and the other girls. A lesser show, or maybe just one that had to pad out a longer season, would have wasted a couple episodes of Mare knowing that but having to fight superiors that kept yelling at her to drop it.
It’s gotta be John in that photo.
Yeah, I think there’s a lot of cheap withholding – like only showing the kidnapper from the chest down, the photo. It’s a hard thing to pull off – there’s a fine line between artful story-telling and manipulation, and I’m afraid that subtlety’s often lost in this show.
what did Mare’s daughter ingest that caused her to go nuts like she did? I assume that was the impetus for the…5th (?) episode in a row where some local kid said something absolutely horrible to Mare’s face?
I think it was an edible. I don’t know much about them, since I’ve not used, but I was thinking it was more about the alcohol, or how it interacted with the edible?
It was definitely an edible (it looked like a gummy bear), and although I’ve never done them myself, I believe they’re incredibly strong just on their own, let alone mixed with alcohol.
Man alcohol is the rottenest stuff. You mix it with *anything* and bad things happen.
It’s fine on its own.
Mixing hard liquor with cannabis is a waste of both. But she’s a teenager so how should she know?Another episode of kids not going to school I think – where was Jess leaving that late at night?
Depends on the edible. I have one nightly before bed to get a good night’s sleep. Much better for you than alcohol or sleeping pills. But mine are indica, I’m guessing Siobhan popped a sativa or a hybrid—unless she gobbled a mushroom, in which case all bets are off.
LOL since you asked…what edible do you take for sleep? I took a hybrid troche that worked very well (~8 hours of uninterrupted sleep per night was glorious) but then my dispensary stopped selling it for some reason so I started taking a hybrid gummy which hasn’t been as good. In your experience is there much variability in effects from batch to batch or no? Also, my “holy grail” for cannabis is something that makes me feel like I do after ~2 drinks—a good, relaxed, uninhibited, happy buzz. I have tried a variety of cannabis mixes and strains and they either knock me on my ass (in a not fun way) or have little if any effect. Do you know of any cannabis strain/amount/form that would mimic the effects of a glass or two of red wine? Please and thank you!
For sleep: 5-10 mg dose of indica gummies (KANHA or WYLD brands). I don’t find much variability from batch to batch, more in myself from night to night. For buzz: BLOOM Girl Scout Cookie Hybrid vape cartridges. A couple of hits and I’m (in your words) “relaxed, uninhibited, happy.” And wide awake.
thanks and thanks! final questions re: the vape–does it have any smell? I am more of a fan of cannabis’s effects than its smell. do you know of any gummy versions of this vape product? because I am super intrigued by your description (and aware that the vape will have a more immediate effect than any edible).
It does have a scent, but not very intense. The only other Girl Scout Cookie items I know are actual flower, which of course have a stronger smell when smoked than a vape. I suppose you could bake your own cookies from it…
DJ Anne is definitely a keeper, and telling Siobhan to go might be just the thing that makes her determined to stay.counterpoint: her comment that the sex was “good” was extremely cringy to me. If you’re in the first month of a relationship and the sex is only “good”, that doesn’t seem like a great sign to me.
Also, isn’t Siobhan underage, or is she out of school and just hasn’t gone to college yet?
I think the show is taking place in Jan/Feb so she is in her senior year of high school and deciding where to go to college in the fall. She could be 17 or 18 I suppose.
It’s not like we see any of these kids going to high school ever.
Siobhan is likely 17ish and therefore the age of consent. Not that I don’t think it’s creepy anyway. College-aged people should not be dating high schoolers!
Yeah, that is icky. There’s something about that crucial period in a person’s life. I feel like the age difference could only be six months, and it would still be icky, if one was in high school, and the other in college. Because it raises all sorts of questions of how the two met, and how they carried on, given the two worlds are so different. The whole thing between her and the DJ definitely raises the creep factor.
Yep, same. College and high school are just such vastly different life experiences that even a small age difference feels like an unbalanced power dynamic. (Also, why do college-aged people want to date kids in high school? They are boring! They can’t go anywhere fun (legally, anyway), they have a curfew, they have parents at home telling them what to do. What about that is attractive to a person living on their own for the first time and free to do whatever they want?
Not only that, the drama factor is just orders of magnitude greater. People around that age, up to the mid 20s , are borderline certifiable. They’re figuring things out, and their hormones are raging and brains are still developing. Honestly, I won’t date anyone below 30 for that reason. No one below that age has their shit together, and they can become like a millstone around your neck.
Very much agree.
Yeah, that felt like such a neg to me.
that’s the perfect word for it, and it makes me wonder if they’re setting her up to mirror Mare’s life as kind of a victim or martyr (which I hope Mare recognizes and shoves her towards Berkeley where she should be).
I’m wondering if Carrie fell asleep during Drew’s bath because she was just so exhausted from the crazy hours she’s been working, or if she doubled back and took her friend up on one of her “Energizer bunnies,” only to crash at the exact wrong time.my sense is that this is part of her “redemption arc” and she was just exhausted, not crashing. It feels like being involved in Drew’s life as his grandmother and not his surrogate mother could be therapeutic for Mare. The “I could hold my breath forever!” line was pretty great.
Feast your ears on that Spindoctors mix!
Carrie was nodding – a classic sign of heroin use. You don’t drop off like that from sheer tiredness – especially when your kid is in the bath. I was so terrified in that moment – begging a fictional tv show not to kill a fictional kid. (I witnessed a young child drowning about ten years ago, and it is still seared in my memory.) I wonder what Katie Bailey’s daughter thought upon seeing her mother coming home and rushing up to greet her. While no doubt Dawn kept Katie’s memory alive for her daughter, still, a year is a long time in a little kid’s life. Obviously there’s something that Dylan is willing to (threaten to) kill for and it’s connected to Erin – if it’s not her death, then what else could it be? I still think it’s weird that the DNA testing of DJ didn’t show some abnormally elevated matching of genes but I guess second cousin is far enough removed that it didn’t raise flags? Poor Mare and Siobhan. I can see why Siobhan’s been harboring that anger inside. And I can see why Mare’s turned her grief into trying to fix everything for other people.I’m assuming John’s plan is to blow Billy’s brains out and dump him in the river?
“Carrie was nodding – a classic sign of heroin use. You don’t drop off
like that from sheer tiredness – especially when your kid is in the
bath.”I disagree. I’ve done that nodding thing while exhausted. And it happened, ONCE (never again), behind the wheel of a car. So, yeah, you can drop off from sheer tiredness. I think Carrie’s got multiple jobs to try to get her life back on track to get her kid back (because regaining custody will require proving to the court her ability to provide living conditions that are safe and suitable for a child, meaning a safe apartment, well-stocked fridge, and enough money to pay for food, clothes, healthcare, school supplies, etc). With multiple jobs, she’s got too little time to sleep.Carrie’s not a sympathetic figure at all (that scene where she’s looting the house and Mare’s cowering in the bathroom getting screamed at is harrowing), but I’ll give her the benefit of the doubt here.
+1 pretty sure we’re meant to connect it to the _lack_ of stimulants, from earlier.
It seemed like a purposeful detail that, when discussing the murder weapon, the Chief mentioned that it was an old Colt service revolver and that her “dad likely had one.” Then there was a shot of one in a box during the preview for next week’s episode, so I’m somewhat expecting things to hit somewhere closer to home. Frank’s involvement would make some sense, or, unlikely as it may seem, maybe something with Siobhan? Admittedly, that’s more than a bit of a reach, but it does feel very Sharp Objectsy.
Not quite sure why so much coverage of this show is referring to Billy/Erin as a “dalliance” or a “relationship” (including the show itself). Even Lori talked about it like it was illegal only because it was incest, but it was also rape.
Hate to say it, but your correction is in need of a correction. He did say Mrs. Fahey. He did not say Mrs. Lahey — which was your initial mistake.
God I love this show.
Hey, why is Mare sporting a North Penn shirt in the opening scenes? North Penn School District is Montgomery County not Delaware County! And Northeast Montco, too, so not like it is on the border. Would any self-respecting Delco resident be out there supporting Montco?
I played rugby for years and I have swag from probably half the clubs against which we played; if the opposition is selling merch to raise funds, the least one can do is buy a t-shirt or ball cap, knowing they’ll reciprocate when you’re selling your own club’s stuff. So I don’t know why that would be a huge deal for her in the show universe.
If Billy (or John) is the father of DJ, wouldn’t genetic testing (which was already done that indicated Dylan wasn’t the father) show a familial match? How much DNA similarity does a “cousin once removed” share?
But didn’t they only test Dylan and Frank’s DNA? They didn’t test any of the Rosses so it wouldn’t show familial match.
I don’t get why Siobhan was so easily triggered by DJ Anne not calling her back for a couple hours? Is this scene supposed to tell me that Siobhan is much more damaged than we realize and is therefore prone to blow up a relationship in a possessive freak out? I was really surprised by this and don’t get the plausibility.
I think it’s meant to tie pretty directly to her being the one who found her brother hanging in the attic (she was editing footage of him earlier in the evening). But… she’s the character that works the least well, for me at any rate. Too perfect, like she dropped in from The Undoing. And it came across less as damage, more as immaturity (for which it’s a problem that the actor is a few years older than the character, I believe).
Way clingy. Not a good look for her.
I’m not convinced it’s actually Billy, based largely on the fact that the necklace reciept conveniently had no first name. I think there’s a good chance it was actually John, based on two scenarios:Scenario one, Billy helped him move the body afterwards and John is now browbeating him into taking the fall for the whole thing, hence why Billy goes off on John about not taking responsibility for his actions.Scenario two, Billy was present during the murder but was severely drunk and doesn’t remember exactly what happened, and John has convinced him that he was the one who actually pulled the trigger.Either of these scenarios would necessarily involve some deceptive editing of conversations for no diagetic reason, which the show has until now avoided using, but this episode got a little sloppy IMO in other storytelling aspects so I don’t think it’s beyond the realm of possibility. Either way, as someone who watches and reads a lot of murder mysteries, Billy just has “last-minute fake culprit” written all over him.
“Apparently, in fictional bedroom communities, if you played a role in
someone’s death, that person’s mother gets to slap you stupid and
there’s not much you can say about it.”This is known as “The Brody Dictum.”
My guess is that while Billy is the killer, beardo brother is actually the father of Erin’s child. The gift receipt just had the surname Ross on it, from what i could tell, so really it could have been purchased by either brother.
Acting was largely great, but the writing (more specifically the plotting)… Hoo boy. Mare opens up about her trauma to her shrink, and the same day her daughter, upset because her new girlfriend was just looking for a short hookup, blurts out how badly traumatized Kevin’s death leaves her so Mare can say sorry. John & Billy’s dad suddenly sits there shaking, telling John about how he thinks Billy killed Erin – which he has known about since the day the body was discovered! But just now, at this very moment, he gets the shakes. Then we get John heavy-handedly coaching/manipulating Billy into confessing. We get Jesse being threatened with murder if she talks, and five minutes later she’s at the cops, talking. Plus the strictly-for-effect scenes such as Drew being totally fine and safe in the overflowing bathtub, and everyone except the audience looking at the photograph that solves the case… Lame and clichéed storytelling. Actingwise, it’s an A-, episodewise a C+.
I was gonna say B-, but yes. 100%. The show has been flirting with this sort of hackish conventionality all along, but it felt like they decided to go out on a date this episode, and I hope they break up before the finale.
Man after the kiss last week and the shock of losing her handsome young partner- having Ol’ Richard show up with his weak-ass gift basket looking like he just rolled out of bed at the Motel 6, I half expected to hear, “Womp WOMP.” And then have him start talking about how feline AIDS is the number one killer of cats.
Glad to see I’m not the only one who saw things pointing at John as the father. Billy saying angrily to John about not being able to keep it in his pants after he found about his new affair only cements this. Ryan, as others have said, is way too young to be the father. I also have doubts about Ryan being the killer, as the narrative workload of having him being outside after midnight and being in a position to kill Erin seems like a lot of heavy lifting. I won’t be shocked, but maybe a little disappointed if this happens though. My theory was that Billy killed Erin to protect John (since she was threatening to tell the truth). Also himself, since he knew about the relationship since the cabin. I think it was telling that the necklace receipt only said “Ross”, not Billy or John. If someone wants to poke holes in that, be my guest.
Haven’t read discussion yet, but here’s my take:We never see Billy say he had a relationship with Erin, he just says that he killed her. What we do know is that John told Lori and Lori told Mare that they had a relationship and that Billy is the father of DJ.It also looks like John is going to try to kill Billy.Looks to me like one of John’s affairs was with Erin and he is in fact the father of DJ, not Billy. Billy knew about it though and maybe helped them keep it a secret. He let John sneak into his cabin, he gave them a place to meet when she stayed with him for a few months. He allowed it to happen.Maybe Erin wanted to tell people and Billy killed her to protect John (and I guess himself for helping). So what we’ve been seeing of his behavior is guilt for killing her, but for also letting things get to that point. He can’t speak up without implicating his cousin. Now he wants to confess, John convinces him to go on one last fishing trip and brings a gun, Billy notices it and now is probably going to try to kill John before John can kill him.I have no idea what is on the photograph (maybe a picture of Erin with John?) or what Dylan is up to.
I was so surprised Mare’s grandson survived the bathtub of death. One trauma more for Mare’s huge collection, why not?
I am also surprised the reviewer find this show suspenseful, apparently hasn’t watched many series or this kind.
I would be surprised if Billy is the actual killer. Or John. Maybe it is the boy with the horrible hairstyle after all. Or the writer, since the actor plays villains recently. Or lil’ Ryan killed Erin cause he saw her with his dad.
Anyway, it doesn’t really matter as long as dear Kate is sad, sobs and “gains” more traumas for her collection.
Okay, okay, okay. If Ryan did it – (and I’m not saying I think this is the actual end they are going for) but if he did, the only way it fits is if two or more of the drunk adults at the camping family reunion decided, “Hey wouldn’t this be the best time for young Ryan to lose his virginity, and wouldn’t you know it, he has a crush on Erin … and Erin just so happens to be willing to accept money to do such a thing.” It’s all kinds of fucked up, but the show could make it plausible.
Anyone else get the sense that John telling Billy “I need to hear you say it” was to make sure Billy could go through with taking the fall, not eliciting a real confession or trying to trick him? My guess is they were accomplices & John convinced him that he was going down anyway because of the bloody clothes but could save the family by saying he was the sole perp.But if John’s plan is to Fredo him then what’s the point of getting him to confess? Just to put him in a desperate frame of mind where he agrees to go fishing? Or to get him to tape a confession and then shoot himself? Not sure it all adds up yet.Anyone know if the gun in the tackle box matches the description of a 1980s service Colt that was given earlier in the episode?
Mare got to experience both ends of the spectrum when it came to mothers.Mrs Zabel let her have it, but Dawn Bailey gave her much needed gratitude for finding her daughter, Katie.
Would the paternity test have revealed two related parents? if the prevailing leads or theories are true, wouldn’t they have recognized that ‘Oh shit, the parents are cousins?’ a few episodes ago?
Lot comments about Ryan being the father. Isn’t he supposed to be like 11 and DJ is about 1? I don’t know what they’re doing with Ryan other than building layers to the badness of John.John is absolutely the father and is most likely the killer – he probably had Billy move the body and is now forcing him to take the fall. Prior to the fishing trip when Billy says he’s ready to confess, he seems way too wound up and I’m sure John is worried that he’s not going to stick to the scripted story or that it’ll be obvious he’s covering up for someone.Similar to the priest, they’ve been dropping little hints that Billy is the killer when he’s really not. When they talk about how Erin stayed with Billy – that’s most likely when Billy found out about John and Erin.
The moment I keep going back to is when we cut to Lori and John mid-conversation and Lori says “Billy?” We’re meant to infer that John just told her Billy is the killer. But her reaction is so muted, no shock or surprise whatsoever. Makes me think she was somehow involved.
They keep showing her young son Snitchy staring and always trying to snoop. He’s involved somehow.
Even though Jess produces that surprise photo near the end of the episode, I’m not yet convinced that Billy will be fully exculpated by what’s in it.Agreed. There’s more to this murder than initially suspected. I originally thought, back in 3rd episode, that the Deacon was the father of child and that Erin came to him to demand money for DJ’s ear surgery and he killed her to keep this whole thing quiet. That pretty much got wrecked in 4th or 5th episode.And I don’t think Billy is the culprit, his brother John is. He been acting very strange around Billy and even go far to take him on fishing trip when Billy wanted to confess. Billy looks shocked when he saw the gun in that fishing box and John looks defeated when Billy took that box with. I think John was afraid that the police would be able to poke holes in Billy’s confession and that they would zero on John as actual father of DJ and Erin’s killer.But then again, I could be massively wrong because Dylan is acting super shady given his mad-cap crusade in trying to eliminate whatever secret that Erin wrote in her journals. And maybe Billy did killed Erin and that the two brothers are just trying to spend whatever freedom they have left together before Billy turns himself in.UGH damn, already this is far more satisfying sprint to finishing line than The Undoing, Outsider, and even Sharp Objects.
Oh, didn’t Lori say they had talked to her and John about taking DJ in and raising him? Maybe this is why John is so on board with it, he knows the baby is his.
Not sure you can say there are consequences in the world of this show when Mare is back on the job a few weeks after planting drugs on a civilian…No talk about Siobhan’s breakdown texting/calling her new girlfriend? You may think she’s a keeper, but not sure she’ll feel the same about Siobhan after that.
“The weapon that killed Erin is a Colt Detective Special Revolver.”“An old cop carry?”“That’s right. Popular in the 80’s.”“Your dad probably had one, Mare”These lines of dialogue seemed important. Especially the part about Mare’s dad…
I believe this post may not age well. To have Billy be the killer with one more episode to go seems unlikely to me. I think the twist is that it’s John.
Are you saying that Billy killed her? You need to watch and listen to that “confessions” more closely
Again. I am hoping Siobahn’s arc has her not blaming her mother for everything. “You should have found him!” because everything is Mare’s fault, but even if she was an imperfect parent it doesn’t seem that way. Grow up, Siobahn.I do love that there is some clear twist coming and we have no fucking idea what it is. It could be something that shows that ERIN IS MARE’S DAUGHTER (“is she mine?”) I just love how open they left it even though it’s impossible to satisfy everyone…or just me.I turned to someone I was watching it with when they started talking about fishing and said “We’ll go fishing, say some hail marys, it’ll be fun!”
It’s John. Not Billy. That’s the swerve
I haven’t read all the comments but my hot take is that John is the father (the show mentioned that he’s a charmer and womanizer). Billy found out either during the reunion or when Erin stayed with him. Billy killed her because he didn’t want her to go forward with whatever Erin has in mind in getting the money. John doesn’t want Billy to confess because then he would have been outed as the dad. Billy also strikes me as the weak one in the family so he would tend to follow what others say (hence keeping the secret and following John’s advice).
Billy might have murdered the durder (or just moved her body?) but I think John is the mastermind of the whole thing and he’s planning to kill Billy to try to keep it a secret.Kate Winslet’s monologue was absolutely stunning. And Siobhan spiraling when she typically seems like the smartest, most adjusted person in the whole town was heartbreaking and relatable.Why would we assume Carrie took an upper when they clearly showed us she didn’t? That’s just weird.
To me this was the weakest episode so far:Siobhan’s meltdown come out of nowhere. There was no indication that she would overreact that way. It seemed they just wanted a setup for her to confront Mare about the suicide (while suddenly sounding super sober again).Also, I was missing the scene where this little shithead Dylan was suddenly out of jail as the prime murder suspect (I know it’s probably due to some bail, but a scene would have been nice). And great healing genes and his side: running and assaulting a woman a couple of weeks (?) after being almost fatally shot is not bad.