A requiem for Aquaman and the last gasp of the Snyderverse
A decade after Zack Snyder's Man Of Steel, we look back at the good, the bad, and the ugly from the grimdark era of DC films
Film Features DC Universe
With his energies now focused on building his own original(-ish) science-fiction franchise, filmmaker Zack Snyder has put the superheroes of the DC universe behind him. And now that Aquaman And The Lost Kingdom is finally out in theaters, it’s time for audiences to do the same. It’s been a decade since Snyder’s Man Of Steel opened and launched a new era of DC superheroes on screen. Since then, we’ve gotten no less than 15 feature films connected to this shared universe—16 if you count the two cuts of Justice League separately—and though Snyder only directed three of them himself (and produced a handful of others), his moody aesthetic set the tone for everything that came after. As we head into a new year and DC Studios heads in a new direction under the leadership of James Gunn and Peter Safran, it’s a good time to pack up this era into a box and set it aside for future generations to discover and analyze with fresh eyes.
It was pretty clear from the outset that Snyder was far more interested in certain aspects of the Superman mythos—namely his awesome (in the archaic sense), godlike power—than others. Like many Very Serious Artists before him, Snyder sought to separate the characters from their pulpy, common origins in the pages of cheap comic books and elevate them into something more artsy and intellectual. No bright colors, quippy catchphrases, silly secret identities, or inspirational speeches from Pa Kent (instead, he lets himself be killed to teach his son a lesson). This version of Clark was more steel than man, and that should have told us everything we needed to know about where the franchise was headed. And yet, when Snyder’s next installment, Batman V Superman: Dawn Of Justice came out, it was an even bigger mess. But at least we’ll always have the infamous “both our moms are named Martha so let’s stop fighting” moment.
Here’s look back at the past decade of the DCEU films, sizing up what worked, what didn’t, and what never should have happened.
The Good
The DCEU was not without its triumphs, though. The first Wonder Woman soared to a healthy worldwide box-office total of $823 million, more than both Man Of Steel and Justice League and for a much smaller budget. Director Patty Jenkins kept the desaturated look to fit in with the rest of the franchise, but managed to incorporate heart and humanity in the moments between all the fighting. As a result, Diana came to the Justice League party as a more fully rounded character than her teammates. Not that it put all that characterization to good use.
The other notable female-led film in the DECU, Birds Of Prey (also known by the unmarketable title of Birds Of Prey And The Fantabulous Emancipation Of One Harley Quinn) was another critical success, thanks mainly to Margo Robbie’s total commitment to the role of Harley. It’s one of the few films in the franchise that let its characters be colorful and actually have some fun. Other examples include the original Shazam! and the recent Blue Beetle, both of which are aimed at a more of a family audience. As much as we tend to focus on the Justice League films, let’s not forget that some DC films that are proud to embrace the comic-book origins of their characters.
And then there are the two films most responsible for Gunn and Safran getting the job as co-heads of the studio: the moderately successful, by DC standards at least, Aquaman (which Safran produced) and the critically acclaimed but financially underperforming Suicide Squad (which Gunn directed). When Warner Bros. was looking to bring in new blood, they were the people the studio tapped.
The Bad
Nothing makes you appreciate the difference in the approach of the DCEU more than watching the two Suicide Squad films back to back (though honestly, we don’t recommend it). The first is poorly written and badly directed, wasting its talented cast (plus Jai Courtney and Cara Delevingne) in a boring, muddy, mess of a film. The second takes the premise to heart and actually lets its brigade of quirky antiheroes off the chain. It’s funny and weird and very gory—everything Gunn does well. Unfortunately, the first one left such a bad taste in everyone’s mouth that the audience wasn’t eager to go back for a second helping of a much better-made dish. The circumstances of its release simultaneously on streaming and in theaters in the wake of the Covid-19 pandemic didn’t help.
It’s always hard to disentangle the circumstances of a film’s production from what actually makes it to the screen, but when it comes to the Snyderverse, it’s an even trickier proposition. Justice League was supposed to be the jewel in the crown, the DCEU equivalent of The Avengers. Warner Bros. even brought in Joss Whedon to finish the project after Snyder’s departure to make sure of it. What they got instead was a public relations nightmare. Still, there’s no shortage of devoted fans who love Snyder’s particular brand of stylish bombast and will defend the film and the recut version of it with their dying breath.
The Ugly
With a studio and a franchise as mismanaged as this one, what happened with The Flash was perhaps inevitable. After delays in production, constantly shifting release dates, and its star’s legal troubles making headlines, the film finally came out in 2023, and wound up being one of the most disappointing films of the year. It was just another example of the toxicity and scandals that plagued Justice League. By that point, Gunn and Safran had already been announced as the new heads of DC Studios, and they did their best to hype the film, but there was always an undercurrent of them wanting to clear the decks for the new iteration of the DC film universe, whatever that may turn out to be.
Had The Flash been better received, it might have been a good excuse for the reset they were hoping for. Or maybe it’s a case of too little too late. The multiverse is no longer as new and shiny as it once seemed. Even Marvel has managed to beat its own version into the ground so hard that the studio diminished excitement for the prospect of bringing the X-Men into the MCU. Plus, it’s also hard to get invested in a character like Aquaman when it seems like he has no future in the new DC universe.
So as we look forward to 2024 and whatever Gunn and Safran have in store, let’s pour one out for the end of a wild and chaotic era for comic-book movies. We may never see its like again.
77 Comments
WW was a success with $823 millions but Aquaman was just moderately successful (and that just by DC standards) with over 0ne billion ?
Inflation is a bitch.
She’s a woman, therefore paid $0.80 on the dollar, so it evens out…
This article is nonsense.It blames Gunn’s Suicide Squad bombing harder than any other movie in the DCEU on the original Suicide Squad but doesn’t really seem to have an answer for why that movie made 800 million dollars.It kind of does this repeatedly, ignoring the mediocre-to-abyssmal box office of GOOD DCEU movies and handwaving the exceptional box office of several BAD DCEU movies to claim the bad DCEU movies stole the good movies’ lunch money or whatever.The problem is reporters want this all to be a science and they want to trust the process, but the process is BS and none of this makes sense.Because movies are art and people like what they like. You can hope they like things that deliver positive revelations about the human condition, you can hope they like the same things you do, you can hope those two things are mentioned are the same (but they rarely are, just look at the Star Wars franchise’s and fans’ occasional love of and endearment toward fascism and fascists in a series based on hating those things).
To be totally fair, most of the good ones started coming along after the bad ones had already shit the bed. “Fool me twice, shame on me” and such.
Merry Christmas to you too, A.V. Club!
Good: Man of Steel in retrospect better than I think it gets credit for; Wonder Woman until its finale, but also overall still remarkably overhyped; Aquaman which was wholly satisfying despite being pretty forgettable; The Suicide Squad might be the best of the bunch, which I still think is a shame it was likely hurt by the Max streaming window; and elements of Bird of Prey. Shazam 1: Just Fine.
Bad: BvS is a mess despite having some great moments. Justice League is a mess, and in retrospect a four-hour do-over wasn’t that helpful. But I don’t consider either film to be a cinematic hate crime. Unlike…Ugly: Ayer’s Squad, Wonder Woman 1984, The Flash, Shazam 2 – all pretty terrible examples of overdone comic book films with bad scripts, awful editing, and all-around poor choices.(Haven’t seen Blue Beetle.)Here’s hoping Gunn’s new plan will work out, but I can’t say I’m excited to continue. This may be a younger man’s game. (And I feel the same way about Marvel films, to be fair.)
Honestly, as much as I dislike Snyder artistically, I find myself liking Man Of Steel. It’s not perfect and it’s not even a great Superman movie, but it just has a je ne sais quois.On the other hand, I cannot believe people think Watchmen is any good. Snyder misunderstood everything that made the comic great, and just made the film version of a traced drawing, only showing off the muscles, fights, and fucking.
I like Watchmen, I don’t deny that you have a valid point, and it’s far from the perfect version I would have preferred, but for all that he got wrong, he got a lot right too. Making it a period piece set in the 80’s was the perfect way to go with it, that’s the story I wanted to see. It was well cast, Jackie Earle Haley was perfect for Rorschach. I also thought that framing Manhattan for the attacks was a good choice. I’ve seen the other ideas that other filmmakers wanted to do to adapt it, and I think Snyder’s version is miles above those, even with its flaws.
Problem with framing Manhattan is that the attack was meant to be from an otherworldly alien that galvanizes folks to get past our petty partisan differences and pursue peace amongst the threat. By making it Manhattan, folks would just blame the US.
If the last couple of… decades… have taught me anything, it’s that an existential threat to all of humanity simply brings our petty partisan differences into sharper focus.
You could easily make the story go that way, but the fact that Manhattan seemingly attacked the U.S. and Russia at the same time is him declaring himself completely independent, and he will do what he wants. I think you could take the story in either direction and it would make sense. Worked for me anyway.
I think Snyder’s version is miles above those, even with its flaws. I might agree with you if the HBO show hadn’t blown him out of the water without even showing a single scene from the comic. Even if the comparison isn’t one to one, it serves to show that there are filmmakers who actually understand Moore and can tell a story with characters, not talking action figures. Snyder maybe could handle Frank Miller, but that’s intended as an insult.
I loved the HBO show, and I think that’s what most of us wanted, it’s not a story that you can really do justice to in a two hour or so movie. That’s why I’m ok with Snyder’s movie, they were going to make a movie one way or another, and all the filmmakers that pitched wanted to update it to be about the war on terror or turn it into a Schwarzenegger action movie with him as Doctor Manhattan. It really needs to be a period piece, the cold war is so integral to the story, updating it just wouldn’t have worked, at least for me. I’m just glad we got something as close to the source material as we did.I have to say, I think what Lindelof did with Hooded Justice was brilliant, I would love to see his take on the original story, HBO should let him do a prequel.
You got the nuance I’d been trying to articulate for years. Snyder’s Watchmen was close with its hit & miss scenes, when other options as directors would have been fiascos. The casting was good. A massive psychic squid as the unifying disaster barely works in the graphic novel and would be even less credible in movie form. Like Starro except without walking around.
The squid worked pretty well for the very brief scene in the show. Again, a good filmmaker can make the absurd work. Snyder just makes the absurd
Doesn’t sound like we’re disagreeing really, I would have loved it if someone like Lindolf had gotten the director’s chair for the movie, but every pitch I’ve read about was updating it to modern day, which completely changes the story, or just turning it into an Schwarzenegger movie. Snyder at least got the importance of the 80’s cold war setting, and staying true to the source material. Yes, I agree with you, he doesn’t understand the spirit of the story, but I do, and I’m happy enough with his version compared to what we would have gotten with the other filmmakers that were under consideration. Like I said, I would like HBO to let Lindolf loose on a prequel showing the original story.
Snyder’s ultimate problem was the massive boner he has for Frank Miller’s work. The reason why his Superman ultimately sucks is because the movie he really wanted to make was The Dark Knight Returns. And he even missed the point of Batman when he tried to adapt him, since Affleck’s Batman is just a murder machine.
Agreed on the whys of his Watchmen. Flaws and all, it’s the only Zach Snyder joint I think is any good.
“Making it a period piece set in the 80’s”Except he didn’t “make it a period piece”, he just adapted it as it was.
“and just made the film version of a traced drawing, only showing off the muscles, fights, and fucking.”Yuuuuup
Wait, what?
Alan Moore: “Watchmen shouldnt be adapted to another medium because it’s specifically written to be a comic book story, and would not make sense any where else”
Zack Snyder: “Let me show you why!”
There are aspects of Man of Steel I liked. The entire opening sequence on Krypton was great and the idea of having an unsure Superman trying to figure out which of his father’s to listen to on paper is great. But they really botched Jonathan Kent IMO. And I thought Zod was as boring and uninspiring of a villain choice as they could have made and, despite having Michael Shannon in the role, he added very little to the movie.
Oh yeah, Jonathan Kent in any other iteration would NEVER tell Clark to let someone die to keep his secret. Much less a BUSLOAD of children.
Glenn Ford told him not to be flashy, sure, but that was to retrain Clark from base human vanity and glory. Costner was just being selfish and stupid, a common theme to Snyder’s characters.
Yeah, Snyder’s take on Clark’s parents is just fruit loops, Martha Kent’s whole “you don’t owe these people anything” pep talk is kind of sickening.
EXACTLY!Snyder may have thought he was accurately depicting a plausible “irl” white Kansan farmer’s worldview in 2012, but I don’t think it’s real. And it’s for FUCK sure not any version of the Kents we want to see.I think Snyder is just depicting his own stunted 13 year old edgelord “I’m keeping it real” mindset. Yeah he’s a “nice guy” but he doesn’t seem like a very good guy. Even if his movies are 25% of how cynical and nasty he really is, that’s still a lot.
I liked Shannon in the role, but was honestly really confused when they picked Zod as the villain. It was a boring choice considering Superman’s film history.
Overall, I enjoyed Man of Steel. I got what Snyder was going for, but I wanted to see Cavill as SUPERMAN after that. Instead, Snyder just kept him as a morose asshole. I will admit about Man of Steel, though, that the whole thing goes off the rails once Lois goes to space for no reason whatsoever. Oh, wait, it’s because the script said she had to be there, not because it made any sense.
Henry Cavill deserved director(s) of a Superman movie who liked Superman.
I just watched it again last night and his facial expressions for “now I am pissed off”, “now I am concerned”, and “I have feelings for you” are so good.
MoS had that spectacular opening on Krypton, with the visuals and the music elevating it to my favorite part of the movie.
But it also had another revelation: Russell Crowe, who I wasn’t a fan of then, made Jor-El his own and probably the most compelling character in the movie. Since then he was also my favorite part of Thor: Love and Thunder, so I think he’s finally found his niche.
And Watchmen is good.. but it’s a begrudging “good”. Like it looks good, the story and characters are for the most part good, there’s been some good work put into it, but nothing ever rises above being just good. I’d describe Watchmen as one of the.. movies I’ve seen.
It was very refreshing to get away from the “crystal space hippies” version of Krypton we’ve been getting for so long. Other than the super Kirby-esque version from the animated series, MoS had my favorite version of Krypton. It seemed really alien, really unique, and like losing it was actually losing something special.
You can tell exactly which parts of the movie Nolan wrote and which parts Goyer/Snyder wrote. The former being better.Add the fact that Snyder can’t direct and edit well (the Pa Kent “maybe” part when teen Clark asks if the bus kids should have died should have had a closer with him regretting those words the second it came out of his mouth because nothing else in the rest of that scene where he tells about Clark about his expectations makes any thematic sense) and you had a great superman film that was mucked up by a director who loves grimdark and a studio that hates comics.
There’s a version of Man of Steel that can work. A version where the world is a little colder and more hostile than Richard Donner’s, where Clark is a little more unsure of himself and what the right course of action is. There are ideas there that can, with some nurturing and development, create a version of Superman that’s separate from Donner’s but still stands on it’s own. A movie which is about him figuring out how to be Superman, and which ends with him becoming Superman, and starting to bring a little light and hope into this cold world. Thing is, I suspect most if not all of those ideas were Christopher Nolan’s, because they’re surrounded by a whole bunch of nonsense that, never mind misunderstanding the core appeal of Superman — that he is, ultimately, someone who brings hope when it’s needed, and who tries to help as many people as he can as much as he can — doesn’t seem to understand how human beings in general work. Like, John Kent telling Clark that he needs to keep a low profile, that people will be afraid of what he can do, that maybe he can’t even save everyone? That I can buy. That John Kent tells Clark he should let a school bus full of children die? Nah. Human beings don’t work like that. (I’d say ‘unless they were sociopaths’, but I think even a sociopath would realise on some level that suggesting that someone should just stand back and let a school bus full of children die would immediately bring the response “What?! What the fuck are you talking about, you sick fuck?!”, even if they didn’t really understand why). Superman’s battle causing collateral damage to Metropolis? Yeah, I can kind of see that would happen. Superman not bothering to even try and fix things and making out with Lois Lane in the ashes of a thousand 9/11s? Give me a fucking break.The movie is some good ideas wrapped in edgelord bullshit, like it thinks it’s “asking the difficult questions, man” and “challenging your deepest beliefs and values” and “showing you who Superman really would be”, and you can practically feel the smirk on someone somewhere’s face at how clever they are with their penetrating insights into Superman, not realising that they’re just taking things so seriously that’s it’s going back into ‘stupid’ territory again. And the reason I think that most of the good stuff is down to Nolan is because (a) the movie is kind of like what the Dark Knight trilogy would have been if he hadn’t realised that it was still supposed to be a superhero fantasy and reigned it in a little bit, and (b) once he’s gone the movies dive fully into the smugly pompous edgelord bullshit and never look back.
“doesn’t seem to understand how human beings in general work”Could also describe Zack Snyder in general. He can create amazing visuals but has absolutely no idea how to make characters compelling.
“doesn’t seem to understand how human beings in general work”Could
also describe Zack Snyder in general. He can create amazing visuals
but has absolutely no idea how to make characters compelling.Yeah, this, I’ve said the same thing about Snyder. The frustrating thing about his movies is what he does get right is completely overshadowed by the big things he gets wrong. His characters don’t act like actual people – in Army of the Dead he barely acknowledges the fate of the character the team goes on a mission to save.
“Superman not bothering to even try and fix things and making out with Lois Lane in the ashes of a thousand 9/11s? Give me a fucking break.”A+
Yeah I’m always ready to go to bat for MoS. It has its flaws, that’s undeniable, but it’s hardly the trainwreck some people paint it as. Unfortunately though via its links with its sequels/contemporaries, as well as the negative association from Snyder’s toxic fanbase, it’s only gotten a worse and worse rap as time goes on. It’s unfortunate.
The problem with Watchmen is it peaks in the opening credits set to The Times They Are A-Changin and never recovers.
I know I’m in the minority (it might be a minority of one), but I enjoyed Whedon’s version of Justice League, mainly because he gave us a more lighthearted version of Batman, something in between Snyder’s grimdark version and Reeve’s ultra realistic version, it kind of hit my Batman sweet spot. They could have made Bruce Wayne sort of a slightly darker version of what Marvel did with Tony Stark, and say what you will about Affleck, but he can pull off the quippy, charming rich guy perfectly.
if nothing else it ruled hearing the elfman music in a theatre again.
I don’t think the DCEU’s problem was the casting – for the most part (Affleck definitely included) it was good-to-great. Which probably is part of the reason it was overall so very, very disappointing.
For all it’s flaws, I, too, liked it. Given the constraints (2-hour max run time; it needs to be more fun; reshoots are OK, but it still needs to be released in December so execs don’t miss their bonuses; etc. ), it’s remarkable that it’s as good as it is. Zack’s version is, I guess, “better”, but only because it didn’t have any of those constraints put on it.
I’m not a comic book guy, but the DCU always felt like a hastily thrown together me-too product. It’s not even Pepsi or Burger King, it’s more like GoBots or Zune.
Oh, totally. That’s why I always scoffed at Warner Bros. “entering the game” of movie universes. What game?? Man of Steel came out in 2013, only one year after Avengers. The game was over! Marvel was already home polishing their trophy.
Don’t defame Zune that way
I fucking loved my Zune.
Oh it definitely was. I mean, I think the number one complaint people have about both Batman v Superman and Justice League (well, besides that they’re just bad) is that they’re trying to do too much too fast. The MCU was five movies deep before they finally teamed up. But WB/DC dug too greedy, and too deep got too greedy and wanted to speedrun their way to billions, so they stuffed BvS with cameos to kinda sorta introduce the other heroes to the universe (and I kinda count Wonder Woman as one of those too since she kinda comes out of nowhere after not being in the plot at all) and then just jumped to doing the JL movie. I think they thought that since some of the DC heroes like Superman and Batman were so well known, they wouldn’t have to move as slowly as Marvel had with their characters (how wild it is to look back to 2011 and think of characters like Thor as being not well known outside of comic nerd circles) but they should have realized that outside of those two, you’ve got to do a little work beforehand to sell audiences on characters like Wonder Woman (who, outside of comics and cartoons, had her biggest cultural impact in a TV series from the 1970s) or the concept of Aquaman being cool or “who the fuck is Cyborg” than just shoving them into one 2 hour movie. Oh, and doing a plot line like the death of Superman just 2 movies is way overreaching.
Even though it was late to the game, the DCEU could have been a competitor to Marvel, they just made some massive missteps in the planning stage. Hopefully, god willing, they learned their lesson, but then again I’ve seen a few stories about how a bunch of C-listers are gonna cameo in Gunn’s Superman so maybe we’ll all just be rehashing stories/comments like this a decade from now…
The sad part is, though, WB already had introduced the bulk of the Justice League in one story – on the JL cartoon. That first 3-part episode is perfection. Why they didn’t use the Timmverse as an overall template for their live action films is beyond me. So, they totally could have done it, but failed horribly. If they wanted a story that focused on Darkseid, they could have used Jim Lee and Geoff Johns’ initial JL arc for New 52. That story basically felt like a storyboard for a JL movie.
And you’re totally right about Death of Superman in the second film. That was just…breathtakingly stupid.
I think Gunn has a proven track record of including many characters in a loose comic book-y way that works. He’s an actual talented writer-director though. There’s a reason his two contributions to the DCEU – The Suicide Squad and Peacemaker – are both critical darlings and are ensemble pieces.
Actually, the GoBots precede the Transformers by several years, and the Zune was a vastly superior device to the iPod in every technical and (most importantly) audible way (superior DAC, superior headphone preamp).So your comparison is actually completely wrong.
man of steel is enjoyable
Thanks to…
Looking at the hit/miss list, the lesson I see most clearly is “enough with the grimdark”.“Aquaman” made a specific attempt to put some humor into the proceedings. Arguably “Shazam” was at it’s best when it was at it’s lightest. “Wonder Woman” as well. The Gunn “Suicide Squad” is easily the jokiest, and frankly is the one I’ll turn on when it’s flitting by on basic cable. I may actually kinda love them walking through the jungle arguing about eating bricks… then shortly after slaughtering scores of innocents with no edits of any kind. ‘Murica.
Ironic that Shazaam, being so lighthearted and fun overall, had one of the darker single scenes in the entire DCEU. Seriously that Board Room/ Sivana scene in Shazaam is DAAAAARK. It’s like how Spiderman 2 momentarily becomes an 80s style Raimi horror movie, except somehow even scarier.Seriously, I’m obviously not a child, but if I was a child watching Shazaam that board room scene would’ve messed me up.
I just finished The Suicide Squad the other night and it really is funny, and a lot of fun. King Shark remains my favorite character and it took until the end credits to find out he was voiced by Sylvester Stallone, which I never would have guessed.
“Yes, Nanaue.” “HAAAND” “Yes, Nanaue, that is your hand. Very good.”
Unfortunately, the first one left such a bad taste in everyone’s mouth that the audience wasn’t eager to go back for a second helping of a much better-made dish.There are much more interesting takes than this apologia.Suicide Squad made Guardians of the Galaxy money over a long stretch of time. That’s the movie people wanted to pay for and that the critics hated.Meanwhile, critics loved Shazam. And no one watched it.Critics hated Shazam 2. And the same number of people watched it.Critics were ambivalent to Aquaman. And it made a billion.Critics liked Blue Beetle. And it struggled to make its money back.Critics loved Gunn’s The Suicide Squad. And no one watched it. It bombed HARD. Half as many people watched it as watched the movie that followed up the original Suicide Squad — Birds of Prey.And Birds of Prey was liked by critics. And it barely made its money back.Hell, one of the best-reviewed movies in the DCEU is the Snyder Cut while one of the worst-reviewed bombs is the Whedon version.Want to know what the takeaway from the DCEU is? Who knows, maybe there isn’t one. Maybe there’s no magic behind what makes a movie interesting or appealing and overthinking it is the problem instead of just trying to make a good movie. Because people won’t care if you make a good movie, just ask the guy who made Shazam and the guy who made The Suicide Squad.
The higher-ups at Warner Brothers certainly cared that the guy who made The Suicide Squad made a good movie.
Peacemaker was surely a big factor in getting his current gig too.
The Suicide Squad came out during covid with a simultaneous streaming release. It’s necessary for your take to barely work to leave that very crucial detail out. Arguably, in terms of value over a longer term it did fine, as it was a critical success, audiences enjoyed it, and it’s now been seen by millions on streaming, television and in theaters. WB was well aware that it wasn’t going to be huge theatrical success at the time. It was a good movie, and the follow-up Max series Peacemaker was also good and did solid viewership numbers. Then they gave the writer-director of those two projects creative control of their entire DCU franchise. Sorry about it lol
It’s pretty clear that every DC property tried sweatily to make their movies like Nolan’s Batman series, without having any idea about what made it special. They just saw “grimdark” and how Dark Knight earned like a billion dollars and said fuck it, audiences like that, let’s do that for 15 years
Give me The Schneiderverse, or get thee the eff OUT!
but not the reboot
I heard that was pretty good; but yeah: OG 1D@AT or GTFO.
I mostly hated all of the Snyderverse films, but the Batman fight scene in Batman v Superman is still the best version of Batman going on a rampage in any Batman movie ever.
Calling these movies grimdark makes much sense as calling Rey and Carol Mary Sues. I also find it funny how anyone can claim Snyder was more interested in Superman’s powers when he barely shows Superman fighting throughout his films.
Say what you will about Man of Steel but at least it wasn’t yet another retread of Donner/Reeve. That slavish devotion was one of the many issues with Returns back in 2006.I’m on record has being a fan of Man of Steel and its attempt to try something different from the same Superman story we’d already seen before. I understand why many people don’t like it but among the highlights are its stunning visuals, the Krypton sequence, the costume and the cast overall.
For all the shit it cops online these days, it got quite good reviews when it first came out. I’m looking forward to seeing what Gunn does with the character next and whether, once the burden for better or worse, that Man of Steel has as the incumbent Superman take will be reassessed in recent years.
I don’t think it’s necessarily the devotion to Donner/Reeve (well, not that alone) that did a number on it, it’s that it’s not just aping the style, but straight up making it a distant sequel to the Donner films. You can do a movie in their style, but straight up doing a sequel to a 20 year old movie is not the way to hook new fans, it’s just gonna leave them puzzled about things it seems like the movie just expects them to know. Superman is iconic but most audiences, especially younger ones, aren’t well versed on things like the Fortress of Solitude or Kryptonian crystals. There are a bunch of other issues (I had a whole bunch typed out before realizing that I was turning into a TED talk) but yeah ALL THAT SAID, Brandon Routh was a great Superman and I’m sad that he got saddled with a bad movie that stopped him from doing it more… until 13 years later when he finally got to do it again as part of the Arrowverse.
Yeah I really liked Routh in the role and even Spacey was ok as Luthor (though I don’t especially like the Donner version of that character).Bosworth is hugely miscast as Lois.But yeah, it’s a film which has parts that I really like but as an overall production, it just doesn’t really work.
“Say what you will about Man of Steel but at least it wasn’t yet another retread of Donner/Reeve.”Yeah, better to just not understand the character at a fundamental level than reference Donner, right?
I think making Superman Returns a direct sequel to the Donner Superman was one of the best parts. I’m pretty sure most kids that are interested in seeing a Superman movie have probably seen at least the first two Christopher Reeve movies. It’s not like they were making a direct sequel to Superman and the Mole Men, the Reeve movies are easily accessible.Giving Supes a kid was a bad move, if you’re planning on sequels, it actually works pretty well now as the end of the original trilogy. Bosworth was absolutely miscast, and making Luthor still obsessed with real estate was dumb, just make it straight up revenge. Still, for me, it’s still better than MoS.
When they run out of comic book nonsense to make movies out of, do we get stuck with a “universe” of movies about children’s books like “See Spot Run”? This stuff was CRAP to begin with. No wonder it’s faltering. SOME of us have higher standards, it would appear. “Graphic Novels”, INDEED. We deserve better.
the critically acclaimed but financially underperforming Suicide Squad (which Gunn directed)
It’s an understandable error, but Gunn’s movie is The Suicide Squad. Which is probably another reason why it didn’t do as well. The first movie was already poorly received, but barely renaming a sequel was a bad idea. I mean if it’s not a sequel (I think Gunn was attempting to do a subtle reboot), there should be at least be a subtitle or something to better differentiate the movies instead of one “The”.
“his moody aesthetic set the tone for everything that came after.”So we’re just ignoring both Wonder Woman movies, both Aquaman movies, both Shazam movies, The Suicide Squad, Birds of Prey, Whdon’s version of Justoce League and Blue Beetle?Why?
The start with Man of Steel was fine but the follow up of Batman vs. Superman was so dumb.They start off with a world where people fear Superman… Batman and Superman are already at odds, We get a shit lex luthor and lets fast track Doomsday and Superman dying before we even get a chance to show how much Superman was loved my the world!Like everything was so rushed, it was so stupid and that’s not even getting into Whedon’s shit boring Justice league and then the worst DC movie the Will Smith Suicide Sqaud.
طقم ساعهطقم زركونساعه ذهبيحلق زركونساعه رجالي شيكساعات نسائيهاكسسواراتاطقم زركون