The source of a lot of strife for Kate Kane so far has to do with her twin sister, and the grief that’s followed Kate since Beth’s supposed death 15 years ago. Even this early on, Kate’s ongoing struggle with those she’s closest to could feel redundant. To its credit, Batwoman manages to do the opposite, making the audience feel more connected to all these new characters in intimate ways.
Coming off of its pilot, Batwoman has already improved. The odd, disjointed feeling from the first episode is gone, with strong emotional performances elevating the second outing above the premiere. Instead of jumping around, “The Rabbit Hole” primarily focuses on sisterly bonds. Kate still has a bit of tunnel vision when it comes to her mission. Despite a whole city being insanely hungry for a Batman-like hero to come back and save them from the mess Gotham’s in 24/7, Kate is solely focused on using her new batsuit for Alice-duty. This includes trying to prove Alice is her sister Beth, while protecting said villain at the same time. And in the midst of all that, her non-evil sister Mary—ironically her step-sister—is getting the short end of the sibling situation.
There’s a push and pull between loss and revival in this episode, as far as Kate’s sisters go. Beth died, and in that moment, Kate’s life turned into a never-ending, internal struggle where hope is threatened to be squashed by despair, and later doubt. But her hope is brought to a fever pitch by what could be Beth’s resurrection, but the fact that happy occasion is marred by the Alice persona, which now threatens the life of Kate’s stepsister. The Alice In Wonderland lines may have been a bit hokey last time, but one pivotal moment makes them almost chilling in tonight’s episode. Alice says to Kate,“‘Tell us a story,’ said the March Hare. ‘Yes, please do,’ plead Alice. So the Dormouse began, ‘Once upon a time there were three little sisters,’” declaring her possessive hold on her sister. As this happens, Mary is attacked in her makeshift hospital, which leads to the strongest part of the episode.
I initially thought that Mary’s storyline felt random, but now it’s actually starting to feel like it could be one of the best on the show. Mary was set up to be this rich, influencer-type step-sister, who was kind of vapid but also not smart enough to be so on purpose. But it was revealed that she’s in med school and treats under-privileged Gotham citizens at a black market hospital that she seems to run on her own. Mary’s caring nature is more fully developed in tonight’s episode, as she’s shown to be helping make up for the gaps in Gotham’s failing healthcare system. And Mary’s pestering is just her way of getting Kate to notice her, which, as anyone with younger siblings can attest to, is pretty realistic. We see how hurt Mary is that Kate has always keeps her at a distance, when all she wants is a sister, too.
Family takes center stage this episode, which isn’t all doom and gloom—at least not on the surface. It was refreshing to see how open Kate is with those she trusts, like when she just came right out and told the family that she suspected Alice was Beth at breakfast before the coffee even hit. You could already see this with Mary and Kate, but there is no “step-family” syndrome going on with the Hamilton-Kanes. They all seem to get along; Catherine isn’t inserting herself in Kate’s or Jacob’s business, and I thoroughly enjoyed their little unit for the small bit that it was on screen.
That is, until Kate’s stepmother Catherine Hamilton-Kane decided to pull one over on all of us and hire hitmen to steal Alice’s knife from Kate. It was a surprise, but considering she’s a successful business woman who is all about appearances, it makes sense. Just like when she puts up a front for the city of Gotham to instill a sense safety, she’s able to fool her family, and the audience. However, it’s still not clear whether her plans are malicious. Could Catherine be hiding Alice’s identity to spare Jacob and Kate the harsh truth that she’s an evil villain who slits the throats of the elderly in their quaint homes? How would she even know, for sure, that Alice is Beth or what the knife looked like? Given the way these stories usually unfold, this new development most likely wasn’t the doing of an overprotective mother figure, but rather a more sinister plot behind the scenes.
Like the show, Kate is still figuring out what her place is stumbled—she stumbled onto Bruce’s secret, into the batsuit, and then into the citizens of Gotham’s lives. Serving as a protector to the city’s populace isn’t her main goal yet; right now, Kate is mainly focused on getting to the bottom of the Alice/Beth situation. Only Luke seems to be aware of what Kate’s appearance in the batsuit has done to the city—he points out that, inadvertently thought it may have been, she’s raised the people’s hopes. Kate does seem invested in helping people on a grander scale, but “The Rabbit Hole” gives us a chance to see her in a more intimate setting. The way Kate interacts with others and cares for her loved ones with her whole heart is truly one of my favorite things about the character. With this foundation set, it’s only a matter of time before she dons the bright red wig to distinguish herself from Batman and start saving the city of Gotham from all the evil things that go bump in the night. Oh, and crime. Fighting crime, outside of her villainous sister, will likely commence soon.
Stray observations
- I didn’t fully catch, last time, that it was the result of a Joker attack that sent Kate’s sister Beth and their mother into the river. Someone in the comments had pointed it out that there’s possibly a connection between Alice’s now evil, crazed state, her disappearance, and the Joker.
- Something that glaringly stood out to me is the fact that Wonder Woman exists in this universe, confirmed when Kate jokingly said she’d be more likely to dress up as the Amazonian warrior than Batman. Since it’s a DC world, yes, a lot of the Justice League members most likely exist. However, heroes are not often mentioned unless they’re in a show. Batman was the exception, but then an extension of him finally showed up. Themyscira exists in the Arrowverse, so will Diana show up in the future as well? Fingers crossed, but it was also just a funny callout.
- I know I included this in this section last time, but Luke and Kate’s work-relationship/budding friendship is truly one of my favorite things about this series so far.
- Alice’s note to Kate, “You have our father’s eyes,” was puzzling. It seemed to be from Alice, which makes the most sense, but that line is odd. The peculiar bat inside does confirm that she knows Kate has been the Batman everyone’s talking about, but what does her father’s eyes have to do with that?
- Fun fact: Rachel Maddow is the voice of Vesper Fairchild who narrates the town’s collective mind in a more gossipy way than maybe we’re used to from her. It’s not exactly new information, but I thought it was cool, and maybe not well-known yet.
- As a Chicagoan, I always love when I see the city used in shows or movies. Some beautiful shots in this episode had me geeked, for sure.
109 Comments
“You have our father’s eyes” is from the comic series–it’s the first time the character didn’t speak in verse, and acknowledged that Alice and Batwoman were siblings.
Yeah and here it’s just a bizarre throw away reference.
It’s how Alice tells Kate she knows she’s under the cowl – she recognizes the eyes.
Just give her the red logo and wig already. Also Robin exists in the Arrowverse. Would also be nice to time place these eps in relation to last year’s crossover.
Robin existing just raises more questions like, where the hell is he then?
Yep. I’m not opposed to giving Batwoman a show instead of Batman. But setting it in Gotham which is just BRIMMING with well known heroes AND villains is going to make the Supergirl/Superman thing look like a minor oversight.
Yeah that’s my problem is that Batwoman has her own niche in the comics that’s separate from Batman’s (Hunting Supernatural Monsters, using her own gear and principles) and here they’re just shoving her into Batman’s niche, using his gear, fighting his criminals. It’s lame.
I’m just spitballing here, but maybe they’re using familiar territory to ease audiences into the character. And then once they’re on settled ground they can go a bit more sideways.
But like Kate’s not a new character, she’s been around for over a decade at this point, familiar ground would be any of that content.
True. I think they’re in a tricky position. I mean, they’ve name-dropped Robin, but we don’t really know yet to what extent this particular Gotham had Batman and all his friends and foes. And trying to cover all that ground could very well distract things to the point that it can’t establish its own identity. Like, I get your frustration. But I also feel like I get why they’re not focusing too much up on that (…yet).
They could have just avoided all this by doing something along the lines of her comic origin where Batman has minimal involvement instead here where she’s Lady Batman. Now all they do is just drawing attention to the Batman shaped hole in the show, a hole that 2 episodes in has already gotten wider.
Batwoman’s material is unknown to anyone who has not read her comics. Not true for Batman.
That’s why you teach the new viewers about it.
Which they will. But as said earlier “I’m just spitballing here, but maybe they’re using familiar territory to ease audiences into the character. And then once they’re on settled ground they can go a bit more sideways.”
But that’s not what they’re doing, they’re not easing us in, they’re making her Lady Batman, when they don’t need to do that. She doesn’t have a complicated backstory, they could have run the whole thing in about 10 minutes and we’d have been all caught up.It doesn’t matter if people are familiar with Batman or not because she’s not Batman. They don’t need to be telling his story because this isn’t his show.Also we’re not that into familiar territory considering they went ahead and introduced pretty much all of Kate’s supporting cast so why not go all the way.
I’m pretty sure Lady Batman is EXACTLY what the showrunners want to make. Or rather, they want to make a Batman show, but DC won’t let them. So they make the closest thing they can. They did that with Arrow and now that Arrow is ending, they are doing it here. It’s pretty amazing that they can say the word Batman in the first place – neither Supergirl nor Gotham got that right (Gotham was also not allowed to say the word Joker).So yesh, this is a Batman show with the serial numbers half filed off. I would not expect it to try to distinguish itself from Batman lore. On the contrary, they will revel in every bit DC allows them to use.
Oh I’m sure of that too, that’s the history of DC Comic shows on TV, they want to make Batman but WB won’t let them because he’s movie money maker or whatever, so they go for the next best thing. Can’t get him for Smallvile? Here’s Green Arrow. Can’t make a Batman show, make Green Arrow again but have him as Batman like as possible. Still can’t make Batman? Make a Prequel show where all of Batman’s mythology happens with him as a kid. STILL can’t make Batman? Make Batwoman because they’re never going to put her in the movies but have her still be Batman.
Like they must really want the DC streaming service to do well to have allowed Titans to use him, on screen no less.
This has all the core Batwoman elements and is very similar. The only difference is in the discovery and use of the Batcave and Batman’s equipment. It’s really kept a lot. I am not sure what is prompting this reaction.
I’ll buy that Batman’s been MIA for 3 years (barely… given how obsessed his is, they better come up with a DAMN good reason for him to just up and abandon his mission). But Dick never stepped up in his absence? Barbara? Tim? Jason? Huntress? Black Canary? (Just realized Canary is slumming it in Star City in this version, but still there’s a dozen other C listers that I’m not even mentioning.)And I sure as hell doubt TwoFace, Riddler, Penguin, Joker, et all are just going to take a knee while Batman stopped showing up to work.
There’s a lot that needs to be explained. And I’ve not sure it ever will be.
Well, Batman was running around saving people 15 years ago, to reference the timestamp tag we got tonight. Few of Batman’s nemeses had preternatural longevity or legit superpowers.It’d be quite fitting for the darkness of Gotham that when Batman disappeared, the wealthy elite got together and decided to leverage exactly the type of carrots *and* sticks that Batman refused to. Offer the worst of the worst cushy retirement and/or exile plans as they’re getting older. Assemble the Crows to mercilessly hunt down and execute a few of the costumed freaks to make that carrot look way more enticing. One or two villains manage to insinuate themselves into the fabric of Gotham’s new shadow elite; most take the deal and fuck off to get old and die. The Joker refuses, is massively outnumbered by all the “traitors,” is forced into hiding, maybe grooms Alice (even though I find that last bit a little too predictable.)If you want to get *really* freaky with it, have Batman/Bruce leave Gotham precisely because he caught wind of this wealthy coup-de-vigilante and decided he had to make a tactical retreat and reevaluate.
I really thought she’d add the wig to the suit at the end of this episode, but going off the preview they will next week.
Well they revealed a bunch fast, I figured Beth being Alice was going to be a thing they kept from the rest of the cast for most of the season but pretty much everyone is in the know now. Also Sophie figured out that Kate is Batwoman pretty fast as well.I do feel like they need to explain things on the Batman front a bit more. Like where’s Alfred? Where’s Lucius? Where’s Jim Gordon?Also I did not really care about Crisis until this bit of news came out:
Tom Ellis will reprise his role as Lucifer Morningstar from ‘LUCIFER’ in The CW’s ‘CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS’ crossover. Depending on how it’s written, COIE had better be either Infinity War/Endgame level amazing, or completely bonkers.The amount of guest stars they’ve got won’t work in just a “pretty good for TV” type crossover.
Oh I’m pretty sure that like four of them are of actual substance and the rest will be five second blips on screen.
Is it too much to hope that the blips will be Wolverine in First Class type blips?Yeah, probably.
Probably blips like them all getting into combat stances for the final battle at the most.
Infinity War/Endgame level amazing, or completely bonkers.
It can be two things.
My hopes were a bit dashed as it seems they sent out a massive invite to just about anyone who’s been involved in a DC property, and then couldn’t actually start writing the thing until they had a solid idea of who they’d be getting. Michael Rosenbaum in particular says he turned it down because their pitch of “We have no idea what you’ll be doing but we need your answer right now” was so unimpressive.
He’d better have some words with John Constantine.
If I read the account from set spy who broke the story correctly Ellis was filming a scene with Amell, Matt Ryan, and Katherine McNamara, which is weird because she plays Ollie’s future daughter. So long story short, yes it sounds like Lucifer is going to have some words with Johnny boy
sexy words
Some sexy words.Seriously, the two of them would be largely simpatico. Lucifer’s boner for punishing guilty people doesn’t actually mesh very well with the rules of the hell he’s ordered to reign over. Meanwhile he’ll be thrilled to find out that his dad is only the biggest fish in one out of infinity ponds, not *the* biggest fish.
And, well, I can’t imagine either of them finding the other too rough on the eyes.
As much as I’d LOVE for that to happen, unless there’s been an update that’s still just a rumor with only one source.
That’s about most of them at this point, still way more interested now than I was before to find out.
Don’t know about the others, but the simplest explanation for where Batman went would be “Knightfall happened.”
Maybe for Batman but it wouldn’t explain where Bruce went.
I feel like is a fitting tribute to season 1 of Arrow that what we are supposed to accept as the central romantic relationship this season w/ Kate & Sophie is already tedious and I am ready for Kate to move on from it (where is her Felicity?)Kate in a sister love/ hate triangle with Mary and Alice however is something that I have not seen before & feel like every angle of its working and I want to see continue to develop Alice telling Kate “You’re MY sister” and realizing what that meant for poor Mary was chilling
Also a tribute to season 1 of Arrow? The step mom being involved in a conspiracy
Also a “tribute”, the dad being a shit whose trying to do right.
The stepmom is interesting. Not Moira Queen interesting, but interesting. I thought something was up with her at breakfast when Kate spilled that she thought Alice was Beth. Mary was horrified, her dad was dismissive, but the stepmom, while she challenged how that could be true, never took her eyes off Kate the whole time, obviously appraising how she was going to have to deal with Kate knowing about Alice (and having the birthstone knife).
The reveal with her at the end did have echoes of Moira in the pilot. You think she’s maybe going to be a bit more in the background, on steady ground, a straight player.Oh! Just kidding. She’s part of some conspiracy and can no longer be trusted.
The stepmom not only had Kate attacked to steal the knife, I take it she also staged the bridge explosion to try to kill Alice (and would have if not for Kate’s Batwoman scuba equipment). She probably somehow faked the bone fragments to make it look like Beth was dead, and then sold Beth into slavery or something. Surely she would not have done that just to get Kate’s dad to marry her?
I’m under the impression that Kate’s father lied about the bone fragments in order to help Kate move on.
Possible, but judging by the way Kate’s dad was crying before he told her about the discovery of the bone fragments I think he believes it (and probably they were planted—by Kate’s stepmom?—primarily to trick him)
The beautiful underwater scene where Kate rescued & revived Alice, and then Alice tenderly touched her face, also reminded me of the heart-meltingly lovely scene from the Arrow pilot where Thea came down the stairs, embraced Oliver, and told him that she always knew he was still alive
Also a tribute? The cute naive younger sister of the main character
yesss, that was a great oh shit! moment for Mary’s welfare.
Yeah, if there are any triangles going on, then it’s the one between sisters….Which doesn’t bode well for Mary.
I’m with you there – I’m not a fan of the Kate/Sophie relationship as more than a backstory. Mostly because I don’t like Sophie at all – I get her reasons why she turned on Kate at the academy (she doesn’t have Kate’s cushy safety net and privilege) but it was still a really shitty thing to do (it was more shitty of the military, of course) And now that Kate has come back, I feel like she keeps mishandling the situation in the ways that are the most hurtful for Kate. I get she moved on and Kate will need to accept that, but she doesn’t have to twist the knife in the wound with shit like “there is no us” or betraying Kate’s trust again. So yeah, big X-nay on Sophie/Kate. Let’s introduce a new love interest. Montoya and Sawyer are unfortunately likely out, so it’ll have to be a new character.
This really felt like part two of the pilot, and they probably should’ve been showed back to back. i got a strong Batman 66 vibe from the Batcave’s equipment, all that was missing was the nameplates.
That note at the end was from Bruce Wayne, implying that Kate was his sister. Ergo, the Bat awakens and takes flight in front the Wayne Enterprises building.
That’s what I got too.
Uh no. That was from Alice. It’s directly from the comic.
– So Kate has Alice’s DNA on something, and nobody wants it?
– “Kate, we could easily prove that Alice isn’t your sister by doing this test, but we’re not going to do it.”
– Yeah, you don’t just shrug off tear gas.
– Alice went straight to Kate to get the knife. Does she know that Kate is Batwoman?
– If Kate drives a motorcycle, are we going to see the Batcycle later?
– I really like that everybody is figuring out they’re roles as we start through this.
– If Alice didn’t know that Batwoman was Kate, then how did the Wonderland Gang find her knife?
– Kate and Alice together are so good.
– Okay, Ruby is KIND of wooden, but it’s not that bad. I fully expect her to grow.
– Well, I was right that there would be some Alice/Mary relation. It just wasn’t what I thought.
– Alice knows that Kate is Batwoman now, right?
– I got to the step-mother about two seconds before the reveal. So what’s her game?
–
I’m really liking the story choices here. The Alice/Beth reveal in the
first episode. Them knowing who each other are in the second. I expect
Mary to learn sooner rather than later.
– I’m not really feeling Kate/Sophie.
– I like the class warfare aspect to this show. The Dark Knight trilogy touched on it, but never really went anywhere with it.
– Alice writes, “You have our father’s eyes,” because those are what she saw of Batwoman.- I don’t think that Catherine has an agenda against Beth. I think she has one against Alice. Alice is fighting class warfare, and Catherine is both rich and an elitist.
Speaking of Jacob Kane’s refusal to do the DNA test and Alice’s “you have our father’s eyes”…is it possible Jacob doubts their paternity?
Wouldn’t matter. They would be testing Alice against Kate.
Sure, you could still confirm they’re sisters. But would Jacob want people to notice if his murdered wife’s murdered daughter wasn’t his?!
Unless he submitted his DNA as well I don’t see how that would even enter the picture.
If they were half-siblings (which fraternal twins can be) then that would show up in a DNA test.
Thank you for noting that! I didn’t catch that the note, combined with the bat, was all part of the callout that she knows Kate is Batwoman.
I was confused about the DNA thing too as even if she isn’t Beth you’d want to find out who she is.
Testing her DNA only does anything useful if you have another DNA sample to compare it to. They COULD compare it to Kate’s DNA to see if it’s really her sister, yes. They only reason I can think of that they don’t is that, in a surprising display of realism, doing a DNA test is a long process with a huge backlog of waiting cases; they don’t want to clog up the system testing Alice’s DNA against someone they’re so confidant can’t possibly be Alice.
So it was revealed in a throwaway line that Beth and Kate are not only sisters, but twins. I’m no biologist, but presumably that makes it a little easier to confirm that the DNA on the knife is not Beth’s, since it will be a very close match to Kate’s if it is.
Alice went straight to Kate to get the knife. Does she know that Kate is Batwoman?If Alice didn’t know that Batwoman was Kate, then how did the Wonderland Gang find her knife?That wasn’t Alice and the Wonderland gang, it was goons dressed up like them hired by Kate’s step-mom.
And Alice does apparently know Kate is Batwoman, but I’m not sure when she figured it out.
This series needs to ditch the turgid voice overs ASAP!
Instead of the Joker, it’d make much more sense for the Mad Hatter to be involved in Beth’s disappearance. Batwomanwhere its star had to use a dull disguise voice while
upstaged by her co-star who got to be the unhinged archnemesis.
The heated suit joke is a reference to Spider-Man: Homecoming whereas the suit’s remote defibulator is from The Flash’s first season.Since Mary is filling her niche with the clinic, does Doc Thompkins not exist?So far Luke Fox feels too similar to Felicity Smoak, Cisco Ramon, Winn Schott, Curtis Holt, & Querl Dox. They do realize they can stir up the formula, right?
Why were the cops firing at the locked police van that flipped off the bridge?
They could probably see Alice escaping in the water.
At that depth at night they wouldn’t be able to see anything. How would they know they weren’t firing at the police officers in the van?
Spotlights.
Arrow had voiceovers but then ditched them once Diggle joined Oliver. They just need to give Kate a proper outlet with which to exposit and emotionally unload.
Kate already has a coms system set up with Luke, maybe she will actually start talking to him over it & not need the voiceover anymore
It’s weird that were conversations in the show where Kate naturally brought up her survivor’s guilt but they decided to keep the now redundant voice overs regardless.
If the cops firing at the van in the river were Kate’s dad’s people, they were in keeping with the spirit of his above-the-law operation, as he earlier ordered multiple guys with assault weapons to execute a woman armed only with a knife rather than take her into custody
In several jurisdictions (I believe that New York/Gotham is one of them), the police are allowed to fire with deadly force on a violent felon attempting to evade capture.
I don’t doubt it, but as it played it was a very reckless and brutal thing to do, which seems to be in the wheelhouse of Kate’s dad’s paramilitary police force
I know it was edited that Alice wrote something and then Kate found something on her motorcycle, but did I misinterpret that the message actually came from Batman? I read it as “You have your father’s eyes.” Then the bat was alive. Alice seems more like a “send a dead bat” type. I read it as a fake out: “Oh the message is from Alice … No wait, its from Bruce!”I could be wrong though.I do like that the show is moving through this stuff quickly. Model for future DC/Marvel/Comic book shows: Don’t fuck around.
-I ADORE the way Kate used the Alice-as-Beth theory to cut off Bad Ex Talk. 10/10 marks for avoidance.-Why is the Arrowverse so good at sisters? The Danvers sisters are the obvious ones, but Ollie+Thea, Sara+Laurel, and Jennifer+Anissa are all great too (Barry can sit this one out). I felt so bad for Mary watching Kate flip out about Alice! Really looking forward to where they take Kate+Mary.-Kate’s line about dressing up as Wonder Woman is pretty swoony for a blatant lie.
Everyone in the Arrowverse has such a great relationship with their sister!…… goddamnit Barry, you always have to ruin everything.
I agree this was a better episode from the first. Well-constructed and produced, and I was able to connect with a lot of the emotionality of the characters.As to the Catherine Hamilton involvement, I’m pretty sure Kane Sr. mentioned someone Hamilton-related in the discovery of Beth’s “bones” so I wouldn’t be surprised if she’s somehow involved in a coverup.Pretty sure that’s the first Wonder Woman reference we’ve ever head. Fingers crossed it means Lynda Carter will be playing her in the crossover.Wait, his name is Jake Kane? Well, now I really don’t trust him.
I’m liking most of the cast so far, but if they’re not careful, Rachel Skarsten could near about walk off with the whole thing. Also thought the actor who played young Kate was really great.
I think that those really are Beth’s bones. I believe that Alice’s insanity is a result of brain trauma.
I’m surprised more hasn’t been made of the Wonder Woman reference. Since the Arrowverse at this point should be beyond making throwaway jokes, hopefully Wonder Woman is in reference to something like a prototype character that Diana takes inspiration from. Or a sly nod that the Crisis is already bleeding realities.Because Barry is still the first recorded person with meta human powers in this reality, right?
Nope. That ship sailed with one of the other crossovers. There was an entire spate of metahumans back in the WWII era (ish) that caused the Dominators to visit the first time, because every time it happens on any planet, they start getting worried that a meta will develop sufficient/specific powers to mess up reality/the timeline.Moreover, the existence of Killer Frost indicates that there are multiple ways to create metahumans, not just the usual dark matter fuckery.The whole thing’s already been blown wide open. There’s absolutely nothing preventing metahumans from having been a periodic phenomenon in history for millennia.
It depends on how you define metahuman, since that’s debatable with Wonder Woman. And since we know Themyscira exists, it would be kind of weird if she doesn’t.
Not sure that Diana exists as anything more than a fictional character in this universe. She’s never been mentioned on Legends, which has actually used Themiscyra, and it’s not like she isn’t seen as a queer icon in this world, as well.
They didn’t name drop Bruce Wayne until sixth season of Arrow. Doesn’t mean he didn’t exist prior to that reference.
Kinda missing the point. Diana doesn’t have to exist to be a queer icon, or a costume to wear.
Oh, I was focusing more on your point of saying Wonder Woman is probably just a fictional character. Which I highly doubt.
Well, since this is the Gotham in the world that Flash, the Legends, and Green Arrow inhabit, I’d say it’s highly unlikely that she does as anything other than a fictional character, similar to the way Supergirl and Vixen are fictional characters to the world that Black Lightning is in.
Are they confirmed as fictional characters in Black Lightning? Or was that just an open-ended reference made? (I saw the episode in question, but I’ve fallen behind on the show. Although given we know Cress Williams at least is going to be in COIE, I’m sure we’ll get solid info just exactly how their world exists relative to Earth-1.)
In any case, in a world where they’ve already established the existence of Green Arrow, Flash, Batman, Black Canary, Huntress, Reverse Flash, Deathstroke, Ra’s al Ghul, the League of Assassins, the Suicide Squad, and Themyscira itself, then it really wouldn’t make much sense for Wonder Woman to be a fictional character. As I said, just because this is the first time they’ve made verbal reference to her doesn’t mean she couldn’t already exist.
It makes perfect sense. If all that exists, and no one ever mentions her except as a costume to wear (instead of, “Hey, where is Wonder Woman when these aliens/interdimensional Nazis/unbelievably strong characters show up? We could use her.”), it’s much more logical that she’s fictional in that world.
Looks like she’s donning the red wig next week.
Two episodes in, I feel…disoriented. It’ll be interesting to see where everything lands once the season ends, because we’re already getting revelations and turns that would typically play out much later. “You finally figured it out,” says Alice, a sentiment that feels weird at only episode 2. Conversely, that Kate is in no hurry to answer the city’s cry for a hero is a nice subversion. She’s not out to be a superhero, she’s out to solve her family’s mystery. Though she’s still too experienced with the gadgets despite knowing nothing about what they are.Opening a secret pro bono clinic is one thing. Staying there late without a buddy in 2019 is just holding the idiot ball. I also appreciate the whole Hippocratic oath thing but Mary takes in a guy who’s recently had a run-in with the Bat, and she and Kate chat away in front of him oblivious to any possible repercussions (and Kate, for her part, is too keen to use the guy as a lead to Alice to maybe warn her sister). The whole scene is oddly staged and has me wondering if the clinic becomes this show’s neutral zone where Kate goes for intel, like how other shows would use a bar or alley.
Even Bruce’s family has a bit of madness in them, at least as far as Beth is concerned. Plus, things are moving pretty faster than most DC shows in the CW.
The chemistry between Mary and Kate was a little off this episode. I think they were just aiming for younger (step)sister striving for connection/acceptance but, in the early scenes, it kind of came across as romantic longing. So, while I don’t think the show is going to swerve that way, I suspect a subset of shippers already begins to coalesce.
I was worried that the voice overs would continue, and they are. That’s not good.
Everything else is pretty good, but those voice overs have to stop.
The note to Kate “you have our father’s eyes” is a call out to the comics if I remember right. But Alice says it to Kate as she’s about to die. I don’t think Kate finds out this early that Alice is her sister in the comic version.
I agree with kris’s comment that Alice said “you have our father’s eyes” by way of explaining how she figured out Kate was Batwoman, but ohhhhhhhh conspiracy theory time.Bruce has been Batman for a LONG time. I’m not clear they’ve established how old he was when Beth and Kate were born, but he was an adult and an established hero when they were children, at the least. What if, in fact, Jacob Kane does doubt his daughters’ paternity? What if he’s right to do so? What if they’re taking notes from certain versions of the Huntress for this show, just as they took Cassandra “Wonder Girl” Sandsmark’s origin as the daughter of Zeus and gave it to Wonder Woman in the comics reboot and Gal Gadot film? What if Kate and Beth actually are Bruce’s daughters, and perhaps the Joker DELIBERATELY targeted them because he’d figured it out?I sincerely doubt it’s that. I’m not sure I want it to be that. But PERHAPS “you have our father’s eyes” works on multiple levels.
“You have our father’s eyes” is a direct quote from the Batwoman comics. It’s how Alice recognized that Batwoman was Kate — and let her know that she knew.
I assumed it was because Kate’s eyes are what Alice saw under the water.
Not entirely familiar with Batwoman’s mythos, but this modern take on the Batman formula is interesting. It brings so much of what is insinuated for over 50 years to the surface.Batman and Joker have been hinted to have a kind of special, complicated, emotional but intimate relationship. Here Alice and Kate are sisters. And they know each other’s identities. Also explains why they don’t just kill each other.Jim Gordon is depicted to be some kind of father figure to Batman/Bruce. Kate’s “Jim Gordon” is her actual father.Her Batcave tech support isn’t an old english butler rather a young tech genius.Looks like her medical support has been up dated from an old english butler to an actual doctor, with a hospital.No underage teen sidekick dressed in bright red, yellow and green.She uses a motorcycle over a car. Even Nolan’s movies ended up doing this.Even the cheeky rumor that Bruce is actually gay is handled head on by making Kate an out and proud lesbian.
It was better than the premiere yes, but there are still pacing issues. Scenes just don’t flow organically the way they should. The story still jumps to quickly and i has that feel like their rushing through developments too quickly.There are decent elements in the show so far, they just need to slow down a bit with the storytelling and construct the narrative better.
The complaints about Ruby Rose being “wooden” strike me as similar to that same argument being made about Brie Larson’s Carol Danvers. Some people are just taciturn, and I think Kate (like Carol) fits into that category right now. (I still stand behind my wish last week that she be allowed to take the piss out of Bruce’s world as she explores it.)The real highlight for me this week, though, was Nicole Kang’s work as Mary. I’m glad she’s getting a character with some layers to her. But again I feel I have to ask what the hell the deal is with the GCPD right now. The absence of Jim Gordon should be as much of a spirit-breaker to the city as that of Batman. But now the cops are being ordered around willy-nilly by Papa Kane and his band of mercenaries? Let’s hope somebody challenges that soon.
When Batwoman saved Alice under the river, Alice grabbed Batwoman face in something we were brought to think was a tentative kiss.But she was just checking her eyes, because she had an intuition.It’s a CLEVER writing of a scene. Kudos.
Mary telling Kate to tell Beth/Alice that she wasn’t a threat was a. Heartbreaking for Mary & b. A DAMN-worthy smack-down moment for Kate & her slightly-condescending & diatant treatment of Mary.
The misogynist troll army is out in force on this one. The current imdb rating is 3.0 and a scan through the reviews showed hundreds of 1* reviews. Nothing in my opinion has rated a 1* review since the 1988 movie Dead Heat with Treat Williams & Joe Piscopo. I drilled down on some of the reviewers who had rated it 1* and they either had no other reviews or had only a few including giving low ratings to Jodie Whittaker’s Doctor Who. Quelle suprise. I find that, with the exception of Legends (Hail Beebo), Berlantiverse shows tend to have one good season before they descend into angst ridden season long arcs. Batwoman already looks like it’ll have an angst ridden season long arc with Alice, but I want to give it a chance now just because of all those stupid snowflake trolls who couldn’t handle a show about a queer female crime fighter and rated it 1*.
“You have our father’s eyes” is a line from Alice and Batwoman’s encounter from Rucka/Williams’ Detective run. It was how Kate realized Alice was Beth and notable for being one of Alice’s few non-Wonderland lines. My guess is it was thrown in because it sounds cool and the writers didn’t care that it doesn’t make sense in the context of the show.
“but what does her father’s eyes have to do with that?”In answer, Joker caused the crash saved and Alice. That is why she is nuts. Big reveal later they are Batman’s daughters or something very close.
No one talks about how cool is the scene where Batwoman getting back to the Batcave in the beginning? Okay…..cause I haven’t seen a TV show does something that looks almost as good, production value-wise, as the Batman movies.