Be white and handsome—You's Penn Badgley reveals the formula for being a charming psycho
Aux Features Clips
Former Gossip Girl and Easy A star Penn Badgley seems refreshingly grounded about the fact that he’s being bombarded with romantic online attention from women who’ve fallen under the spell of Joe, the romance-minded nutcase killer on the Netflix (originally Lifetime) series You. As the A.V. Club’s Joelle Monique put it in her essay on the sly dissection of male romantic heroes and their attendant clichés in You’s first season: “Joe is a self-professed romantic with a skewed way of thinking—his motivation is to protect his partner, but he doesn’t leave her any room to be herself.” Oh, and as Badgley noted to The Late Show’s Stephen Colbert when describing a crew-unnerving photo shoot where his character is seen stalking his first season “love” interest Beck (Elizabeth Lail), that particular woman “isn’t around any more” for season two. (Colbert made a grimacing throat-slash gesture to indicate that Joe’s version of romantic obsession is a whole lot more toxic than idealized masculine.)
Still, Badgley wasn’t unaware of why his creepy, murderous stalker character is—in You’s tricky exercise in satirical point-of-view—seen as a potential love object for very real viewers of the show. Calling the series (co-created by Sera Gamble and Greg Berlanti) “social commentary,” the actor explained that, to him, “We are purposely creating a device that’s meant to be provocative, hopefully thought provoking, and not just titillating.” Along those lines, Badgley responded to Colbert’s question about what fans’ “thirsty” reaction to the serial killer he’s playing says about society by noting, “It says something about how much we’re willing to be patient and forgive someone who inhabits a body that looks something like mine, the color of my skin, my gender, these sorts of things, these sorts of privileges.” Doubling down on that point, Badgley decried “how much less willing to forgive people who don’t those boxes.”
Underlining the point of just how much less work a hunky white guy has to do to get attention, Badgley then demonstrated how easily he can go from the affable talk show celebrity to creepy serial monster. Staring into Colbert’s camera three, Badgley simply turned off his puppy dog smile and did nothing. (What Joelle called Badgley’s “dead shark eyes” helps.) It sort of worked, honestly, proving that, for handsome white guys, even evil is a comparative walk in the park.
73 Comments
Um, I’m pretty sure BTK, Leonard Lake and Charles Ng charmed a few ladies according to Marcus Parks, Ben Kissel and Henry Zebrowski.
As much as I admire that Penn Badgley is aware of his privilege, and so on, I feel like this type of conversation is ultimately trying to have it both ways – fans who are drawn in by Joe are tsk-tsked, yet the show continues to be made and viewers are continued to feel invited to care about Joe. It reminds me of all the finger-pointing toward Breaking Bad fans about identifying too much with Walter White, even as he was still made to be layered all the way to the end of the show.
Not the case at all.
Its pretty much the same as Fight Club, Wall Street, Wolf of Wall Street, MadMen, Taxi Driver and yes, Breaking Bad as far as idiots totally missing the point of the film/TV show and identifying and looking up to the sociopath/psychopathic character. Its not the show runners fault that some people out there are that dumb and miss the whole point that you aren’t supposed to like these people.
Yes, but was there a publicity campaign for those films or for Mad Men telling viewers they were wrong for caring about the protagonists? These days it feels like we get all these treatises about why we shouldn’t be invested, even as they simultaneously want us to be invested. It feels like posturing to me.
Saying again, they’re not saying don’t be invested, but don’t be invested in the show for the wrong reasons, i.e: you aren’t supposed to idolize and like these terrible, horrible people. You’re supposed to be repulsed by them and make a personal note to never be like and avoid such people. Most normal and sensible people do, but like I said, there are those dummies and idiots out there who miss that part.
I get what you’re saying, but I don’t think any of the people who idolize these types of characters are going to be swayed by these comments – they just make the characters their own. Meanwhile, the material is still there, inviting the viewers who crave this type of persona and idealize it. For me the best solution if one doesn’t want viewers to identify with the character is to just not participate in the show (similar to when Mandy Patinkin quit Criminal Minds because he no longer felt comfortable with the subject matter). I’m sure Penn only has the best intentions, but I think it’s going to fall on deaf ears.
So, let’s just cancel it amirite? Cancel anything and everything that offends your sensibilities. No one should ever write and/or portray a socio/psychopathic character ever again because a tiny minority of morons may misinterpt it the wrong way and idolize them.Its incredible how you types have become the very Christian/religious fundamentalists you criticize.
Definitely not. I have no interest in the show ending or in a show ending just because of fan interpretation. I’m just saying if they are concerned about fan reaction, that’s the most likely way to make the change happen. No matter how well-reasoned Penn’s thoughts are, many who have strong feelings about his character will tune them out.
You realize the latter half of your post contradicts the top half right?
Just stop already. If you don’t like the characters of the show just don’t watch it, but spare everyone the historonics. Just because a tiny minority of idiots don’t get it, or people like you that are too sensitive for it, doesn’t mean it should be ruined for everyone else.
I don’t have a problem with the show and I don’t want it to be canceled. I’m talking about Penn’s comments, not the show itself. I even mentioned earlier that this isn’t the only show where some involved with the making have made these types of comments about public reaction. If you thought all this was about wanting You to end, that wasn’t my intent. Sorry if my points veered in that direction.
Lol. Ok, Patrick
Wat?
This will never be solved. The only solution is not to make these kinds of shows, and leave the monsters looking like monsters.
Nobody’s saying ‘don’t get invested’. That would defeat the purpose of telling stories. They’re saying ‘don’t idolise the psychopath I portray just because they’re handsome/cool/clever’.
Rick Grimes, Dexter, Deadpool, Rick Sanchez…
Yeah. I watched both seasons (the very final scene is NOT subtle) and never once thought “I hope this guy gets his way.” And you could see “Love’s” impending revelation coming a mile away.The show’s creators are playing with “audience identification” and empathy as a deliberate exercise. The people who “don’t get it” are people who scare me.
I don’t see fans being tsk-tsked here.And Walter White was one of the biggest dicks ever to be on television. I’d never want to be around someone who identified a lot with him. He was less and less layered as the show went on. He was shown to be just a power-hungry asshole with a chip on his shoulder.
A power hungry badass who carved himself into a demigod out of sheer will power. Now of course he was an evil whiny egotistical shitbag, but ignoring either side of the character is really dumb.
No one is saying to ignore that side of his character, but not see it as a type of person to idolize and use as a role model in real life. Using ficitonal characters that are purposely made out to be evil whiny egotistical shitbags to warn people of such types as a personal role model to aspire to in real is dumb.
Lots of people ignore the badass side of the character, they see no redeeming (at a fictional level) features in him at all. Focusing just on the evil whinyness not will to power, the will power and the brilliance is real dumb and real pointless.
I said this to PeterJJ4. That there is always some group of people, morons, who do, either as heroes and role models, or in Peter’s case, needlessly outraged.
So we agree then I think. Cool.P.s realised this may sound sarcastic, it isn’t
I wasn’t disagreeing with you in the first place so I’m not sure what you mean by this.
I just realised and tried to edit comment but it’s after the time limit.
No worries. I understood the context and what you meant.
Yeah, a demigod who was pretty much constantly teetering on the brink of total ruin, who lost or destroyed everything he cared about, and ended up living completely alone in a shithole with absolutely nothing. Worship that demigod if you want. It worked out well for him. And it wasn’t “out of sheer will and power.” That’s what he believed, even though it was actually out of some intelligence, but primarly blind fucking luck and the help of people who knew what they were doing who protected him, which he never took a second to acknowledge, and in fact chose instead to shit all over them. Fuck Walter White.
Lol, He ended up getting the money he worked so hard for to his children which was his goal from very early on, he won on that score and died surrounded by what he loved the most after killing a bunch of Nazis.The man faces down and bests, through ingenuity, daring and yes luck drug dealers and straight up gangster masterminds and he’s just a suburban cowardly dad. That is sheer will power, that’s what gives him the balls to poison a child and ruthlessly persuade Jesse to kill a man in cold blood. I’m sure you’d love to fuck him if you could ever get close enough.
And at what cost? He got his BIL killed, along with countless other people. He’s the reason Jesse ended up a slave in the first place which is the only reason he had to kill a bunch of Nazis. And died surrounded by what he loved most? What was that? Loneliness?But yeah, I see that Walt is apparently your hero so totally go ahead and model your whole life after his. I’m sure it will work out exactly as well.
“And at what cost?”Less than the money he got to his family.
“What was that?”His genius product.
“But yeah, I see that Walt is apparently…”Then you need incredibly strong prescription glasses or at least an understanding of the viewer’s relationship to fiction.
The money that they don’t want because they’d rather live in squalor than have anything to do with him, and his own son despises him, and I’m sure every one of his surviving family would give all that money back to have Hank back. Which is the other thing. He got what he wanted—money for his family—but with absolutely zero regard for what anyone else wanted, because he’s an enormously selfish person.So he got to die surrounded by…meth? What?Your relationship to fiction apparently involves a lot of wanking to Walter White.
“He got what he wanted—money for his family”Yes well done that’s what I’ve been saying.
“So he got to die surrounded by…meth?”Yes correct because he a very selfish person.You seem unable to understand enjoying a fictional character doesn’t mean you want to fuck them.
That’s what you’ve been saying while also ignoring what it cost him. Anyone can get what they want if they don’t care about the consequences. That’s not badass. That’s just selfish and foolhardy.But he doesn’t even use meth, so I’m not sure how that was a good thing.This is a weird statement coming from someone who accused me of wanting to fuck him.
“Anyone can get what they want if they don’t care about the consequences.”And it takes an incredible about of will power to ignore the consequences and beat other consequences. That’s the brilliance, the will to power. Like when Keyser Soze murders his family.
“But he doesn’t even use meth, so I’m not sure how that was a good thing.”It was what he loved to create, his legacy, and you know this.
“This is a weird statement coming from someone who accused me of wanting to fuck him.”Oh dear lord you really couldn’t tell I made a joke about the alternative interpretation of “fuck him”, really?
So you think murdering your own family to make a point is a good thing… Okay.If you took away from that final episode that dying surrounded by meth was something Walt or the show considered a highlight then you and I watched a different show.No, I couldn’t, apparently. I guess it’s hard for me to identify jokes when they aren’t remotely funny.
“So you think murdering your own family to make a point is a good thing… Okay.”Good as in makes for an incredibly compelling character yes.“If you took away from that final episode that dying surrounded by meth was something Walt or the show considered a highlight then you and I watched a different show.”No we watched the same and you interpreted differently to me. The show does not think.
“No, I couldn’t, apparently. I guess it’s hard for me to identify jokes when they aren’t remotely funny.”We have very different senses of humor.
I never said he wasn’t compelling. I said he was a dick, and people shouldn’t aspire to be like him. Or Keyser Soze, for that matter.The show does think, inasmuch as the showrunner and writers decide what message they are trying to convey, and I feel pretty sure that they were not trying to paint a picture of a life well-lived with Walter’s last scenes. I don’t know anyone who wants to die alone, with their family hating them, having caused untold suffering to innocent people, surrounded by meth.Fair enough.
Soze is compelling. WW is compelling and badass and genius these are great things.Him loving caressing his tools as he dies having achieved his goals of providing for his family and besting every single one of his human enemies is a life well lived on his terms.
They can be good things in the right person. He was not a good person, he did a lot of bad things and caused a lot of real harm and essentially no good (and no, the money to his kids doesn’t count because they don’t want it) and it’s weird that you can’t acknowledge that, adn that’s the problem with people who idolize him.Well if having a life well-lived on your own personal terms is all you’re after, despite those terms resulting in the death of a close family member and countless others, and your wife and children hating your guts and cursing your name, then good for him, and you, if that’s what you want.
I have acknowledged his flaws you read the posts that did that so why you’re pretending I haven’t is weird.Why you can’t distinguish between what a fictional character does and what I want from life is also weird.
Cool.
https://imgur.com/gallery/vB9B5
And no, nobody wants to fuck this:
Because you’d never be able to.
Very true, as he is a fictional character.
Astonishing you can understand this and yet still pretend that acknowledging the badass nature of a fictional character means the person doing so hero worships them.
People worship fictional beings all the time. I have yet to hear a credible report of someone actually having sex with one, however.
You’re claiming you’ve never heard of fanfic/slashfic? LMAO.
Please point me to where I made such a claim.
Fair play on this point ES. I misread “I have yet to hear a credible report of someone actually having sex with one” as “I have yet to hear a credible report of someone actually wanting sex with one”
Not only that, but he was such a fucking dork too. I really don’t understand fans that found him admirable. Even at the height of his power, that show always did a great job of showing how pathetic he was. Like all the times he was spitting out some elaborate, bullshit lie, and you can just see on Skyler’s face the whole time that she doesn’t believe a word of it, and that he’s an idiot for continuing to put on a show that’s obviously not working.
I think there’s plenty of people who identified a lot with the early Walter White, which is a perfectly good thing to do. What the show did so well was turn him into a bad guy like they were slowly boiling a frog to death.
If someone’s telling you they identified with him from say, season 3 onward, sure, they’re probably an asshole. But being invested in him through the end because they could identify with him from the beginning, doesn’t make someone an asshole.
Being invested in him through the end isn’t the same thing as identifying with him through the end, which is what I said.
“I’d never want to be around someone who identified a lot with him. He was less and less layered as the show went on. He was shown to be just a power-hungry asshole with a chip on his shoulder.”You weren’t that specific in your original comment. I identified a lot with Walter White and that doesn’t mean there’s something wrong with me.
He became a power-hungry asshole, that’s not the same as “he was shown to be” one. He was not always his character’s endpoint.
I was exactly as specific as I meant to be, and I said exactly what I intended to say. I also didn’t say there was anything wrong with you. If you identified a lot with Walt from beginning to end, I wouldn’t really want to be your friend. It doesn’t mean there’s something wrong with you. It means you are not the kind of person I enjoy spending time with.And you can interpret the show however you want. I don’t think he turned into anything that he wasn’t always. You could tell from his very first interactions with Jesse that he was an asshole. He didn’t start off sweet and nice and turn into one.
OK well then your two posts contradict each other. You should put more care into your words since you aren’t the one reading them.
I don’t think he turned into anything that he wasn’t always. This is a ridiculous take. He didn’t respect Jesse at the start because he had him in class and he was a burnout/drug dealer. He was pretty sweet and nice otherwise.
I’m a lawyer—I always put care into my words, and all of my posts here are entirely consistent. I’m sorry your reading comprehension is poor. He didn’t respect Jesse at the start because he was an asshole. No one who isn’t an asshole goes to someone for help and treats them the way he did Jesse. And he was consistently an asshole to Jesse even after he should have realized Jesse was far more than a burnout/drug dealer.
Ah, there it is, the self-important occupation name-drop. This all makes a ton of sense now.
Not self-important. Descriptive. But I’m sorry that…my having a job?…offends you apparently.
Lmao chill the fuck out, You is an entertaining somewhat-trashy show specifically because Joe is such an unabashedly self-delusional psychopath and it’s refreshing that the overal narrative largely rolls with his delusional point of view and doesn’t stop every five minutes to deliver a very important message to the audience reminding them that the man who incompetently stumbles his way into killing half a dozen people to be with a stranger he developed an obsessive crush on may not actually be a good person.
I’m going to keep rooting for him because he’s fun to watch and also I’m a functional adult who can separate fiction from reality.
I agree with you that the show doesn’t really need to deliver that type of message. It’s just when discourse about the show, even from the main actor, revolves around viewer identification with him and how they should or shouldn’t be reacting, the whole thing ends up being muddled.
I feel like that’s because a lot of the pop culture nowadays has developed a bit of a puritan Hays Code mentality where upon if you have a flawed/villanous protagonist and don’t go out of your way to signal hard enough what a flawed/villanous character they are, you’re seen as tacitly condoning that behaviour. See: Joker or Three Billboards Outside Ebbing Missouri.
And people who idolise these kinds of characters will typically do so over a handful of their positive/admirable traits, rather the the whole package. Because, truth be told, Don Draper is a charismatic, cool, and appealing fictional character. As is Tyler Durden. As is Tony Soprano. As is Jordan Belfort. As is Walter White.
I get that a real-life Rick Sanchez equivalent would be the world’s
most insufferable prick, but as a fictional character I’ll still find
him to pretty much be the coolest world’s most insufferable prick. And that’s okay.
“It says something about how much we’re willing to be patient and forgive someone who inhabits a body that looks something like mine, the color of my skin, my gender, these sorts of things, these sorts of privileges.”LMAO, no no it doesn’t. All the women thirsting for the guy in You and Skarsgard in True Blood, Dracula and vampires in general and even the Bundy stans are explicit about being turned on by the evil sexualised sadism these good looking guys inhabit, not being willing to ignore or forgive it. And the gender thing is dumb as shit too, tonnes of many love evil women villains and it’s not like villainous black guys aren’t also viewed as hot by lots of women too.
I think I’ve lost the plot with the whole “white privilege” conversation. Or perhaps I never really had it in the first place. But what now? The injustice being addressed here is that… people of color have a harder time being portrayed as a “creepy, murderous stalker” and subsequently lusted after by folks with questionable priorities?I dunno. I dunno if that’s actually a problem.
I don’t think that Badgley has, himself, gotten beyond the “swipe left, swipe right” mentality (and he isn’t all that handsome). His color, his “looks” aren’t what gain him such easy entree into people’s lives. It’s his behavior, his public performances. His seeming vulnerability and practiced compassion are what draws his victims in. The horror is that he actually believes that the performance is enough. This guy is the ultimate Social Engineer. That’s where the “privilege” comes in. Men are encultured to believe that their “good intentions” (sincere or no) are the only qualifications necessary to bring them all of the rewards. And it works.
His color, his “looks” aren’t what gain him such easy entree into people’s lives.Actually it does a lot and we saw it in real life with Elizabeth Holmes, Anna Delvey, Billy McFarlane, etc, etc, in that no one initially questions your background, intentions, or motives if you’re a good looking and sounding white person. Meanwhile, a non-white person would even be allowed into such circles in the first place.
Lol. He’s ugly, especially for a white man.
How is this relevant to any of the correct points and examples I made?
I do love how all the male leads (save Rufus) of Gossip Girl now play versions of their characters but played straight.
Penn Badley’s Dan WAS A STALKER who lied for the entire series. He now plays a stalker straight up.
Ed Westwick’s Chuck was a smooth talking cad who was possessive, insecure, and pretty terrible to woman. In White Gold he is that same character only played straight and not rich.
Chase Crawford’s Nate was an over privileged dunce who could get away with anything due to his priviledge. In The Boys he plays that character straight as well, though the rape is more a Chuck Bass thing than Nate. Thankfully he gets what he deserves.
Damn my old eyes; I clicked to read about Ed Begley… what’s a Penn Badgley?!
Do you need a Do Over?
Oh Penn honey. You ain’t all that.And, no, I WOULDN’T
I’m half way to becoming a serial killer!
Another Jew talking about “being white” as if he’ll ever know what the fuck that means.