Bird Of Prey director Cathy Yan tempers Succession’s frenzied style in “The Disruption”
Is there a world in which Kendall and Tom team up? Or is Roman going to come out on top of this thing?
TV Reviews Succession
No one hurts you like the people who say they love you. But does the Roy family actually love each other? “The Disruption” makes you wonder. The Roys have always tried to present a unified front, with the children having a duty to uphold. If Logan needs them, they’re there—before Congress, at the Pierces’ estate, on the yacht, in Dundee, at the summer house—and the impression has always been one of captives equally driven by affection, responsibility, and fear. There is some commonality in how Connor, Kendall, Shiv, and Roman feel about Logan. But how they feel about each other—well, that’s trickier, and “The Disruption” ends with a line drawn in the sand that is really more like a schism.
Over two-plus seasons, we’ve gotten a better sense of how the Roys might genuinely feel each other, and it’s competitive and commiserating, but it’s always private. They talk a big game to each other and about each other, but it doesn’t leak outward. Last season, Roman and Kendall laughed at Shiv’s memo, everyone made fun of Connor for bankrolling Willa’s play, and Roman’s sex stuff was an open secret—but the Roy children didn’t really use the press against each other.
So far in this season, until “The Disruption,” that continued to be the case. Roman tells Logan to throw Kendall under the bus, but in a private brainstorming session. Kendall yells at Shiv about her teats, but in another private brainstorming session. The media and the public know that the Roys are fighting, and know that the Roys are a mess, and know that Kendall and Logan are on opposing sides. But Kendall vs. Shiv? That is an all-new wrinkle, and it is dark.
“The Disruption” is directed by Cathy Yan with a slight, but effective, tempering of the series’ house style. Less-aggressive zooms, fewer round-robin-style edits to capture everyone’s reactions, and a longer hold on certain compositions that purposefully mirrored their subjects helped slow down the episode in scenes that needed a certain sense of melancholy. I’m thinking particularly of the Committee for the Protection and Welfare of Journalists awards dinner, and that steady mid-range closeup first on Shiv as she challenged Kendall, then on Kendall when he told her she was the new him, and then a step back to show them together, with Shiv’s shock and Kendall’s weariness. Or how Yan tracked Kendall as he made his way into one of the server rooms of The Disruption With Sophie Iwobi show, slid down the wall, and sat in his own misery—ghosting the late-night host (played winkingly by Ziwe Fumudoh) with whom he had become so obsessed.
“The Disruption” both visually and narratively builds on the intimacy and familiarity between the siblings in “Mass In Time Of War,” and then explodes it all outward. How much longer can this feud really last when two of four siblings are already throwing bombs? Is Roman going to come out on top of this thing?
Honestly, Roman does seem the most reasonable right now. He’s working overtime to learn more about what Gerri does, to Logan’s slight surprise. He’s subtly sticking up for her against new President of Domestic Operations Shiv. When Shiv refuses to go on the record sharing some positive memories of her childhood with Daddy Roy, Roman steps up. Did it break my heart a little bit that the story he told about going fishing was something Connor actually did for him? Of course! The Roman/Logan dynamic is so toxic and sad and strange, with Logan using homophobic mocking against his own son who did him a favor by saying he loved him. I know that Jesse Armstrong has said seasons aren’t built around specific characters, but I don’t entirely buy that, and I would want a Roman-centered season very badly! Give it to us!
Until then, we’re caught in Kendall’s spiral of ego, narcissism, martyrdom, the whole bit. Is Kendall doing anything to, say, change Waystar Royco culture right now? Or help the FBI? Or even help Lisa, his lawyer? No, no, and not really, no. Instead, Kendall is interested only in a press war, and most primarily, what the press thinks of him. “You’re quite concerned with how you’re gonna come across,” says the reporter with whom he has lunch, and for all that Kendall insists otherwise (“I’m just really happy in my headspace and I hope they’re happy in theirs”), of course he is.
That’s why he’s back with Naomi, with the two of them bringing out the worst in each other, and that’s why he’s making a different nightclub or restaurant appearance each night, and that’s why he’s pandering to photographers with “Fuck the patriarchy!”, and that’s why he’s playing Good Tweet, Bad Tweet, and that’s why he’s watching The Disruption With Sophie Iwobi every night to see whether she tore him a new one about his Caucasian rich brain.
Kendall is simultaneously treating everything with deathly seriousness and trying to dampen his detractors by acting like all of this is a joke, and that dichotomy is untenable. He has never been the cool guy, as much as he attempts to project that over and over. The guy in the basement of Waystar Royco doesn’t understand why Kendall is talking to him; the writers on The Disruption are turned off by his faux “come at me, bro” insistence; that security guy unnerves him with his “I know you”; Iwobi is relentless in her mockery of Kendall’s try-hard tweets and gang signs. And maybe I would feel more sympathetic toward him if he hadn’t walked back on buying Greg that $40,000 watch or if he hadn’t pulled that “Rape Me” stunt at Waystar Royco, sabotaging Shiv’s first major appearance with Nirvana’s 1993 single.
Kendall really thinks he is the good guy, but is this what a good guy does to a sibling that he recognizes as being the new version of him? And as newly returned Nate (hello, Ashley Zukerman!) knows, scorched-earth Shiv is no joke. The fact that she goes ahead with releasing that statement attacking Kendall (“Our hopes for his recovery were misplaced”) even though Roman and Connor refused to sign it (“This would be out there, like, forever”) alongside her is a real turning point, I think, and an alignment from Shiv toward Logan that I’m not sure is entirely the right move.
I guess she must really believe Logan when he says he didn’t know what was going on at cruises, and that she “will not find a piece of paper that makes you ashamed of me.” Is it easier for Shiv to trust Logan because Tom offers to go to his prison in his stead? And why is Tom doing this? I really thought Tom was going to pull out a recording device after making that offer to a pleasantly surprised Logan, but I guess calling a law firm to get representation outside of Waystar Royco is a deliberate move of its own. Is there a world in which Kendall and Tom team up? Could “Another life is possible, brother” work?
Maybe, because the FBI raid of Waystar Royco is no joke. Gerri had told Logan to tread carefully around senior White House aide Michelle-Anne Vanderhoven (Linda Emond), with whom Gerri had spoken during this season’s premiere episode. But instead, the conversation Logan and Michelle-Anne had, which was very much a quid pro quo, tipped off the Department of Justice, and Kendall had been pushing Lisa to encourage the DOJ to act anyway. So while everyone but Shiv is working late, and while Tom is hosting a dinner for ATN advertisers, the FBI knocks, and Logan acquiesces.
The relieved reactions from Gerri, Roman, Frank, et al. to “We’re cooperating” were quite telling—I’m not sure how many of these people think Logan could survive this. “Trust and reconciliation,” Shiv had asked of Kendall, but that might be a tall order now. Not when he’s hiding in closets and smiling at his family’s misfortune, and not when President Shiv isn’t in the Waystar Royco building when it matters. So once again, I ask: Is Roman going to come out on top of this?
Stray observations
- Despite what Iwobi says, I guess Shiv is no longer “the fucking nice one.”
- I simply do not understand how Kendall’s guy was able to procure that shopping list of audio equipment and surreptitiously set it up around the area where Shiv was giving her speech. At first I thought maybe they had just hacked into the sound system, but then we saw Kendall’s office full of discarded speaker boxes. I think the former option would have made more sense, because wouldn’t someone have noticed Kendall’s guy hustling in all this stuff and distributing it? Wouldn’t Kendall, and anyone affiliated with him, have had security on them at all times?
- I have increasingly come to believe that Connor has the best gig of any of the Roys. Everyone else thinks he’s a moron, so he has no responsibility at Waystar Royco. The media isn’t really interested in him, so he could just chill in the desert doing his own thing. His presidential run and inflated sense of self are obviously both bad, but maybe being the sibling no one takes seriously is sort of freeing!
- Kendall claiming to care about the safety and wellbeing of all the women negatively affected at cruises, but then casually using the phrase “Open the kimono”… not great.
- Was the “I know you” security guy involved in covering up either Kendall’s Shiv’s-wedding-night catastrophe or his bodega shoplifting? The screener episode HBO provided did not have end credits, so I couldn’t determine whether the actor has appeared on Succession before, but that would be a good nod to past bad behavior from Kendall.
- Something else that is untenable: Greg, leggy princeling of ATN, playing all three sides of every situation! Partying with Kendall, spilling to Tom that Kendall is coming into the office, and retaining his personal lawyer as hired by Uncle Ewan. Per usual, impossible to tell if Greg is foolish or a genius.
- J. Smith-Cameron was absolutely great in every scene with Brian Cox this episode, in particular her increasingly pointed “Everybody cooperates” argument. But do I think Gerri single-handedly persuaded Logan to finally play ball with the FBI? No, I think Tom offering his head up for the chopping block was the key motivator there, and we’ll see how that goes.
- “He’s bootleg Ross with a Daddy complex” is a perfect tweet.
- Marcia’s exuberant hello to Shiv, so different from her normal frostiness, was a perfect little reminder that Marcia is getting paid, and the irritations caused by the Roy children no longer really matter to her.
- Logan’s insults for Kendall include “rat” and “a fucking hamburger.” Not his best work, IMHO. Same goes for Shiv spitting in what I assume is Kendall’s notepad/journal. Spit in his face if you really want to mean it!
271 Comments
I agree, I’m not sure Kendall really did set up those speakers during the townhall.I wouldn’t have been shocked at all if it was Logan. After all, we know Kendall wants Shiv on his side, and that would definitely not be the way to do it.
I’d believe there were other Waystar employees who did it as a form of corporate protest but it might be too complicated for the show to go there.
that’s what i immediately thought, as well. Logan is definitely not above fanning any flames of sibling animosity and sparring for his own gain. what better way to get/keep Shiv firmly by his side than make it seem like Kendall is sabotaging her first speech to the company. then again, Kendall is both impulsively petty and unsettlingly childish enough to pull a stunt like that, too, though. also, Roman’s face (as always) was inappropriately amused and smirky, so who fucking knows?
what about “the shoppping list” kendal asked for
Yeah, and the boxes were in his office? Seems pretty suspect. And I doubt Logan is much of a Nirvana fan
“Yeah, and the boxes were in his office? Seems pretty suspect.”Unless he was (stupidly) trying to show everybody it was definitely him, and therefore incurring their wrath, I don’t see why he would have done that.
I thought the boxes were a plant. I don’t know, did anyone from Kendall’s team interact with them directly? I still need to go back and check. Everything about the town hall is so staged—it’s hard for me to believe that someone could set up a bunch of speakers without someone on the Waystar Royco team at least making an active decision not to intervene.But it seemed to play so much into Logan’s hands in terms of 1) getting Shiv to write the letter and 2) emphasizing her femaleness and making her more sympathetic (in an absolutely brutal way), and 3) completely derailing the town hall…Plus, Kendall was such a sad sack this episode. I took his half-hearted non-apology to Shiv to be pretty genuine.
Except there was no reason for the show to place Kendall at Waystar that day except for him to be there to fuck up the town hall. He didn’t do anything else. Also, while I understand that TV has trained a lot of people to look for the misdirect, Succession has never been that sort of show. It’s pretty upfront about what the characters are doing at any given time and isn’t the sort of show that uses “twists” and subterfuge to engage the audience. So if the show presents that Kendall was behind this, it’s pretty safe to assume he was. If it was Logan all along, the writers would have shown that too.
Also while I do not see Logan keeping up with music, it’s such a literal and on the nose choice I feel like anyone could plausibly land on that song.I would have felt much more confident it was Kendall if it had been old school rap.
I dunno. The boxes being in his office screams plant to me. Like, why would Kendall just leave the boxes there? He’s dense but not that dense.
why do you think kendall is trying to hide that he wants to fuck with the company? carolina and gerri both said he basically can’t be fired right now and kendall clearly loves being seen. of course he wouldn’t care if everyone knew he sabotaged the town hall; i’m surprised he didn’t livetweet it
He may have WANTED Shiv to find those boxes. He figured that she’d pretty much only suspect him anyway, so why try to cover it up?
How is everyone so certain it was Kendall’s office?All I can say is this: after that scene, and the subsequent moment when Shiv went to Logan and he said something cryptic, both my wife and I said “huh?” It was far from obvious that it was Kendall, at least to us.
Because it was the same room that Kendall and his team were just in 5 minutes earlier. Which is his office.
Unless Kendall is trying to purposefully piss off Shiv, which would be a remarkably short-sighted thing to do (as he found out later), I don’t see why he would do such a thing.
Yeah, as I said in my reply to Gwen, I got the sense that Kendall genuinely wanted to mend fences with Shiv this episode (even if he’s fundamentally incapable of actually apologizing.)
He wanted to mend fences with her until her dad’s words came out of her mouth at the journalism event. That’s why he said, “It’s really you now,” or whatever the exact quote was. He realized she’s all-in with Logan and was trying to talk him down, and doesn’t want to change the company at all, because she’s the President now. That’s when he realized he couldn’t bring her to his side.
I’m pretty sure his exact words were something like, “It’s you now. I’m so sorry.”Honestly, in the whole exchange, that moment struck me as the most real moment of connection in the whole episode. Who knows better than Kendall how thinking you’re about to get the “kiss from Daddy” fucks with your head? Kendall hasn’t given up on being the CEO, but he’s definitely given up on getting the position by appealing to/appeasing their father.
Great point. He feels sorry for her because she’s in the spot he was in when the show started, thinking he’s next in line when really he’s a puppet on a string.
He found out for about 30 seconds until the FBI raid started, which completely bailed him out. He’s now not going to be the focus of the news cycle, Shiv’s letter is going to be overlooked completely. Kendall set up the “Rape Me” moment. Logan sent the donuts. This show isn’t going to do a twist ending where it reveals Tom was some mastermind all along. What show have you all been watching the last 3 years?
“This show isn’t going to do a twist ending where it reveals Tom was some mastermind all along.”Well, yeah, that’s because its going to be Greg…mwahahahahahah….
It’s not like Kendall isn’t prone to stupid acts of self sabotage, so i buy it. Especially since he did nothing else at Waystar that day. If his mission wasn’t to fuck up the townhall, why is he there?
No argument there.
I have a theory that this season is leading up to a revelation that a lot of key moments were actually done by different characters: Tom sent the donuts, not Logan, Logan set up the speakers, not Kendall, Shiv will be the one to sacrifice Tom, etc. I think Connor having taken Roman fishing is foreshadowing this and it works thematically, because despite the vast character differences in the Roys, they’re ultimately doing the same slimey shit
It’s not
I can’t imagine Logan setting up the speakers – too complicated, too modern, too tacky. I’m confident Kendall did it… although I could buy Roman as a dark horse?
You guys are too funny and all trying waaay too hard here and overthinking it.No, Logan Roy, old man river, did not come up with the speakers and the blasting of “Rape Me” by Nirvana. That was such an obvious troll move/Kendall special.
“No, Logan Roy, old man river, did not come up with the speakers and the blasting of “Rape Me” by Nirvana. That was such an obvious troll move/Kendall special.”He didn’t have to —- he could have sent one of his loyal offspring to do the setup.All I’m saying is that if you put any belief behind the Kendall being the one to take down Logan idea (and thus, the early plot of this season) it would be patently stupid to attack the person he wants on his side and publicly humiliate her.
You misread/misunderstood the scene at the Journo Gala. Kendall realized that Shiv was sent there, all dressed up, (as he said to her), to try and subdue him. He realizes that she is “all in” with her Dad, at least as far as she is letting on. She’s beyond saving, from his point of view.
He no longer wants Shiv on his side if she isn’t going to be open and honest about what was “known” before shit hit the fan. Last week he made it clear he is done with the bs and the “oh, I had no idea…wink, wink” aspect of their lives.Maybe I’m wrong (I’m not), but I think many in these comments are 1. not paying attention, like at all 2. think that everything, all the time is subterfuge and not as it appears on screen. Does that happen sometimes? Of course, but not as often as most here think/feel.
That almost never happens on this show. There’s never any hidden reveals. We see what is going on with every character at all times. Why people think that method of storytelling is somehow going to drastically change in Season 3, I have no idea.
“There’s never any hidden reveals. We see what is going on with every character at all times.”I mean, I wasn’t sure that Kendall was going to turn on Logan at the end of season 2. That was quite a hidden reveal to me.
That wasn’t a hidden reveal, it was an *overt* reveal (one completely consistent with everything we’d seen on the show thus far.) It was a plot twist; you can do that when a story is develop well! What Succession doesn’t do, for example, is end the season with Kendall turning on his father, then revealing it was just a ploy–that he was working with Logan all along! That would be a cheap, unearned twist designed to fool an audience rather than tell a story. Succession has avoided this so far.
I’m not following your reasoning here—-you’re ok with a twist happening where Kendall suddenly turns on Logan, but not with Logan, who is desperate to get Kendall out of the building ASAP, making sure that Kendall wouldn’t be able to influence the siblings? Did you not see him telling them to avoid Kendall when he first entered the building?Heck, he already knew they were meeting with him in the apartment when he sent the donuts. And Logan was already multiple times worried about where everybody was in the first two episodes of this season.I just don’t see why you’d have a problem with Logan trying to keep Kendall and Shiv from joining forces when he was already worried about her doing so in the prior episodes. And he was already having a quite visible meltdown about Kendall being in the building at all.
It absolutely 100% does not make sense that Logan would want to shiv Shiv at her event. He needs her to be public-facing, doing a double-bank shot ‘humiliate her and frame Kendall for it’ carries too many risks (literally all Shiv and Kendall have to do is have a conversation to clear it up) and is simply not how Logan works anyway. And more importantly, it’s not in the grammar of the show to establish that Ken did it–which it does, unambiguously–and then pull the rug out and say *LOL it’s really Logan after all*. That’s just writing fanfiction.Kendall’s turn at the end of 2 had been well set up–he’s shown a willingness to turn against his father, he knows Greg has secret papers (and Logan doesn’t know he knows), he worked Greg all season to keep him close (remember how Ken gave Greg an apartment?), and, after all the ill shit he did for his dad last season, Logan still doesn’t think twice about sending him to prison. It’s a twist, but it fits the plot and character–it makes basic sense without any over-explanation or convoluted ‘what it’ chicanery necessary. ‘Logan is secretly manipulating his children so they don’t join together’ does not.
“It absolutely 100% does not make sense that Logan would want to shiv Shiv at her event.”Again, I disagree. If it solves his immediate problem of dangerous Kendall being in the building continuing recruitment of his siblings from under Logan, then her suffering some humiliation at what was one mostly internal event seems an acceptable loss. Heck, he already humiliated her when he dangled Gerri’s eventual position in front of her face and pulled it away.
IMO Kendall turning on Logan is not a hidden reveal. That’s a plot development. Having Greg suddenly appear at a news conference full of confidence and loaded with receipts and a takeover plan- THAT would have been a hidden reveal – and a ridiculous one at that. Unfortunately that’s what 90% of all these big-time series rely on (looking at you Nicole Kidman and Kate Winslet). Chekov’s Gun, and foreshadowing are highly effective devices that more writer / producers seem to think they are above using correctly. Senseless misdirects, red herrings and utterly senseless reveals are not good writing. They’re devices to make us watch 10 weeks of a story that should have been told in 2 or 3 tops. Succession has been great at avoiding that tripe for the most part, BUT the unlikelihood of Kendall’s lackey being able to just come and go with speakers is some lazy writing and a little concerning.
You seem to be taking these interpretations awfully personally. Let people have their fun speculating FFS.
I think as Succession becomes more popular, the people who used to watch House of Cards and dreck like that have come aboard and are bringing along their expectations for storytelling as shown in much lesser shows.
“She’s beyond saving, from his point of view.”I don’t get that read at all. I think the only one he might have truly given up on recruiting is Roman, and I’m not even entirely sure he’s given up on that idea.I suppose, perhaps, in his warped mind, that he thinks by humiliating Shiv she’ll think he’s the horse worth backing, but that just goes to show that he has no idea what he’s doing.The stunned way he reacted to the news and tried to get the producers to ignore it tells me he had no idea Shiv was going to react this way.
As said above, he moved on from Shiv when he realized that Logan sent her to the gala to pump him for info. He’s not trying to win her back with the stunt.
“He’s not trying to win her back with the stunt.”That only makes sense if he has completely given up on bringing Shiv onto his side at all. Which doesn’t make any sense at all since if he succeeds in taking down Logan, he’s going to need her back anyways. Publicly humiliating her and stunting her career is one way to make sure she aint going to be helping you anytime soon.So, in essence, you are saying that Kendall has no idea what he’s doing.
Kendall does have no idea what he’s doing!!! Think of his stunt with Shiv as parallel to Shiv’s letter ripping Kendall–they’re both losing focus and acting out of animosity, letting things get to them.
“Kendall does have no idea what he’s doing!!!”Then we have another problem. How are we supposed to believe that anybody would back Kendall when he obviously shows he has no idea what he is doing?
Kendall is also the only sibling constantly shown listening to to music, it makes perfect sense that he’d go this route. Meanwhile, Logan still cares about the stock price. He wouldn’t be above driving a wedge between Shiv and Kendall but never would have done it in such a public way. That town hall was being broadcast live around the world and a gazillion employees would have leaked that incident to their many contacts in the press while it was still happening. I also think that he needs Shiv to be a viable replacement now more than ever, messing up her very first leadership speech screws that up.
I don’t understand why so many people try to out-savvy Succession. Kendall did it, they clearly establish this, this isn’t a show that does this kind of puzzle-box swerving.
It’s the comments section on an episode by episode recap. It’s essentially a vehicle for viewer/commenter speculation.
Right, but if a ‘speculation’ is demonstrably incorrect it’s earned the criticism
Kendall? Is that you? Gleefully shitting on people with other opinions even though none of it actually matters?
I mean, if none of it matters, why do you pursue it?
literally when has this show set up a thing where you assume it’s one guy but then, episodes later, turns out it was done by a completely different guy playing 8-dimensional chess? nobody in this show is a master manipulator. logan wins just by flexing power, he’s not going to suddenly decide to skulk around in the shadows just to convince his daughter to work for him. and kendall is high on being the cool son standing up to the evil empire, it’s completely in character for him to set up this stunt without thinking or caring about how it hurts shiv.i feel like it is missing the strengths of this show to treat everything that happens as some sort of ambiguous mystery that could be a piece in anyone’s machiavellian light yagami chess game to only be revealed in the season finale
The “security guy” is Colin, Logan’s security guy and right-hand man. He was absolutely involved in that coverup, and he and Kendall shared a very important conversation about it in S2E1.
Yeah, kind of… surprising… that someone who professionally recaps the show doesn’t recognize Colin.
Not everyone had the time to re-watch seasons 1 and 2 immediately before beginning 3.
I mean, I have a fulltime job that does not involve writing recaps for Succession and still watched both seasons to get ready, but that isn’t even neecessary. All you’d have to do is go to the last episode of S1 and FFW through until you got to the coverup section. It would take 10 minutes and seems worth doing?
You think recappers work for the AV Club full time? LOL.You might have paid more attention to the murder coverup scenes, but you clearly didn’t pay close enough attention to the scenes about the precarity of digital freelancing careers.
What I meant is that I watched both seasons in my spare time, I certainly don’t know how things work for AVClub/real-world Vaulter. And again, it would take 10 minutes to verify the Colin thing.
Yes—assuming you have access to the actor/character’s name or Season 1.Both things the reviewer strongly implies she may not have as she is watching via screener (“The screener episode HBO provided did not have end credits.”)All the time in the world does not help if you don’t have access to the information you would need to look something up. There seems to be a fair amount of pressure to get these recaps up as quickly as possible, too.
75% of the comments on this site complaining about reviewers are some variation of “I remembered this minor detail about the show, why doesn’t the person writing 2000 words about the show on a tight deadline remember it”
Understood that lots of people forget a lot of what happened between seasons… but how many of those people are literally being paid to write about the show?
You’re not talking about forgetting what happened, though. You’re talking about recognizing and knowing the name of a minor character based on their face alone.The reviewer even lampshades the fact that she suspects the show is nodding in that direction but doesn’t have access to the actor’s name since she’s watching a screener.If she’s watching on a screener, she may not even have an HBO Max subscription that would make checking the end of Season One possible. Slow your roll.
He’s been in 18 of the 23 episodes of the show that have aired so far. And I’m not even talking about knowing his name. Who cares that his name is Colin? His role within the show is what’s important, and yes it’s a secondary role, but I wouldn’t call it “minor.” He’s a near-constant presence at Logan’s side and was deeply involved in arguably the most important event of the entire series.It’s obviously not the biggest deal in the world or anything, but I don’t think it’s so out of line to say I’m surprised that the person whose job is to watch, recap, and review the show has not kept track of who he is.
IMDB has him credited for 20 episodes so far – were some of those only notional? Either way, he’s similar to Karl or Marcia, and way more present than someone like Rava, Jess, or Nate. I agree with you that I’d kind of hope a reviewer would remember that he existed.
I’m not exactly Team Kendall over here, but I was rooting for him to get his ass up and go into the studio with Sophie, it would have made me think more of him to take that ego hit.And, honestly, still hoping he nuts up at the beginning of the next episode.As for Roman, he seems to be dancing on a knife’s edge, if you told me next week he joins Kendall, or jumped off the roof, or backstabbed Shiv to take her job, I’d believe any of them, he needs a hug real bad.
Kendall going on the show despite the letter released by Shiv would definitely have been the right move, all he would have had to do was dance around it by saying that he was blindsided that his sister would publicly release such information, that he is hurt that she would do such a thing, but he has an easy get-out-of-jail-free card by claiming that he doesn’t want to go into it since it was only just released, and he can also play it off since his addictions are public knowledge. It would actually be pretty easy to paint Shiv/Waystar as the bad guy in this situation since Kendall is (publicly) altruistically exposing the wrongdoings of his fathers company, and this release just feels like the company using Kendall’s addiction to discredit him.
Yes this would have been the correct strategy, assuming Kendall exposed his dad, Logan for altruistic reasons. But it’s evident that Kendall is using this opportunity as a grab for power & takeover bid to push Logan out. Hence the reason that he’s hiding in the IT room.
In many ways, the harder Kendall leans in to his past, the better – for taking down Logan. “My dad and his company are so bad they fucked me up”. The guilt drove him to drug addiction and breakdowns, but they’ve also given him the clarity to put aside his ego and come clean in the interests of justice.The problem is, of course, he hasn’t put aside his ego, and his end-game isn’t taking down Logan – it’s replacing him. He wants to get rid of Logan, but still be clean enough himself to take over. He’s going to have to choose: burn the shop down with himself in it, or surrender. His inability to really let himself be the target of the comedy show – once he realised the ammunition they had – is a symptom of his more general failure to commit.
Well..Sophie #2 was portrayed as nothing more than an archetypical talk-show fuckwit, pret-ty sure all of that would’ve been sneakily truncated out of the show’s final-cut.
Being Team Anyone kinda defeats the point of the show, I think.
I can see why Kendall fell apart after what his sister published but I think he (or someone stronger in his position) could have probably deflected it pretty easily considering she’s an insider now.
Yeah, somebody a bit more composed and stable than Kendall (like say, Shiv) probably would’ve been able to diffuse that letter pretty easily. Kendall himself probably would’ve been able to do it if he had time to mentally recover from the initial blow. But with it dropping immediately before him going on stage, there was no way he was going to make it through that interview without looking like a bumbling idiot, at best.
Roman, I think, is Team Roman. He doesn’t want to hurt Kendall or Logan, but he’s out for himself. He’s putting on the appearance of having hitched himself to Logan, when no one’s really figured out yet that he’s actually tied to Gerri. I could totally see a version of this season where we end up with four factions: Team Kendall, Team Logan, Team Gerri/Roman, and a wildcard faction of Tom and Greg.
I agree with you here. Also, the more we learn about Roman’s childhood, the more we learn he had it by far the worst of the 4 kids. From Kendall’s “Don’t you fucking touch him!” reaction that implied a history of Logan-on-Roman abuse, the fact that he was sent away to a military school (and maybe even asked to go?), Dog Pound (and the fact that he enjoyed it), combined with all his weird sex stuff, he has a lot of repressed trauma. The fact that his only paternal fond childhood memories involve his oldest brother taking him on a fishing trip was really sad. And how did Logan react to that story? By verbally and sexually harassing Roman. I think Roman will be in the best space to take over because he does seem to have street smarts and business savvy at times (how he handled Vaulter, passing on the Qatari deal, etc.) and he’s learning a lot from Gerri.
“…passing on the Qatarī deal..”: You sure you aren’t intoxicated in “#TeamRoman” euphoria, mate?
That security guy was 100 percent the same guy Logan employed to cover up Kendall’s manslaughter
Rape Me is possibly the most awkward song to hear at karaoke. So very unsettling.
Its also a pretty awful song. Not one of the better In Utero cuts.
Hooray, opinions.
Yes, like, just about every other post on this site.Now if you want to say “shitty opinions” it certainly won’t be my last.
No that’s a correct opinion. Rape Me was Nirvana’s worst song written after 1990. Even as an intentional retread of Smells Like Teens Spirit and Lithium, it’s kind of a boring retread of Smells Like Teen Spirit and Lithium and the lyrics aren’t nearly half as clever as they seem to think. The brevity is a saving grace.
Nah, it’s a great song for sure
Probably my least favorite song on that album. If you want a good ‘deep cut’ off of In Utero, I’d say “Very Ape”.
That song rules for sure, very underrated. Frances Farmer is another great one although let’s face it, the album has a lot of great songs
I once watched a father and daughter do a duet of Meat Loaf’s “Paradise by the Dashboard Light” in karaoke, so while I think your argument has merit, I am not sure it’s the last word in awkward karaoke choices.
I’m pretty sure that security guy was the one who briefed Kendall about the cover up of his involvement in the waiter’s death.
Exactly, and this was him reminding Kendall of that.
Yep. The character’s name is Collin and he’s head of security. Interesting that the author groups killing an innocent person and shoplifting batteries in the same bucket.
“I know you stole vape juice.”
fuk u dude….. i spit coffee!!
Only one of which is true, as a matter-of-verifiable-record.On the other hand..It’s Kendall, so anything goes — since for him, the vague standards are somehow astronomically high than other characters, even Logan.
So, we all agree the music was 100% manipulation by Logan, right? Even as we acknowledge that “Rape Me” by Nirvana represents an impressively plausible choice for Kendall as a character?
So plausible. I was covering my head with my blanket I was so embarrassed for him. “Grunge is making a comeback.” he thought. “This song is a CLASSIC so it hits all the demographics. Shiv, get ready for some LULZ!”
I guess it’s possible, but then what shopping list did Kendall send his guy out for, directly followed by asking what time the town hall was? And Shiv saw the boxes in his office. I mean, I guess it could be revealed that Logan could have done all of that? It just doesn’t seem to be his style, or the style of the show.
No. Logan is not clever like that. He rules by brute force. I don’t know why people want to ascribe these kind of sneaky, tricky ploys to him.
It seemed like a pretty brutal move to me…
I assume it’s a lot of the same people who thought Logan and Kendall were in on it together at the end of last season.These people should watch Billions, which does those kind of twists a lot! This show doesn’t really do that.
No, we 100% agree that everyone that believes Logan did this needs to have their head examined. The line starts to the left.Jesus people.
Define “we” here exhaustively.
We = anyone with a functioning brain who is actually paying attention to the show.
Well..That depends upon how much good attention the show itself is paying to its plot-development and characters — other than for purposes synonymous to jonk-delivery, that is.And therefore, it’s still hecka lot vague when you say “functioning brain”. “Functioning” to which direction, one may wonder.
Nope, it was Kendall.
when do you predict the show will pull the rug out and reveal that, no, the minor stunt in episode 3 was actually set up by logan! gasp!you’re a dipshit if you think this. the show has never operated like this, concealing information from the audience to set up and later reveal a tortured and implausible scheme that goes against the characters of everyone involved (what, do you think LOGAN ROY is going to sneak around and set up speakers just so he can convince his own daughter to stick with him? when he can just offer her things instead?). very stupid of you, but i guess it’s to be expected that as this show gets more popular the average intelligence of its viewers will drop
No because Succession isn’t that kind of show. It doesn’t keep its audiences guessing or try to misdirect them. That’s now how it builds its plots.
Should be an A. This season, even more than the others, feels like something special. Something that’ll be talked about decades from now. It’s so fucking good you guys
Bwahahahahah!Please tell me you’re being facetious, or is everything doing well over there?
Poor Tom. As soon as Logan said, paraphrasing, “don’t worry it won’t come to that” he had already in that moment decided to sacrifice Tom. Tom’s generosity is a weakness to Logan.
Is Tom really being generous, though, or just testing Logan and Shiv to see whether they’re willing to throw him under the bus?
I hope you’re right. I’d like to see more of the Tom who would brazenly eat Logan’s chicken.
That’s a good question. I think he’s learned not to trust Logan or Shiv. I’m wondering if he’s going to seek an immunity deal and turn on the family.
Eh. Tom is still a bully though. He clearly punches down onto Greg because he (Tom) knows Greg is the only Roy lower than him on the family totem pole – and Tom knows Greg is too jittery to fight back.I could respect Tom more if he occasionally used the same vitriol he directs towards Greg at others. But Tom is oily and obsequious literally towards everyone else.He’s a total weasel. And Kendall’s stunt with regards to Greg and the watch made me so upset. Granted, Greg needs to backbone up and should’ve rejected the watch once Kendall’s un-helpfulness was clear.I actually didn’t like Shiv’s dress at the journalism gala. Something about its cut didn’t (IMO) flatter her.
on the dress, I had the same thought. It looked ‘boxy’ or something.
I hear you, Tom is a weasel. And yet, I can’t help but have sympathy for him, the way Shiv manipulates him. Of course he’s able to be manipulated because he just wants to be part of the rich 1% world and continue to eat fried song birds or whatever those things are. You see I’m all mixed up, I hate having sympathy for such terrible people!That watch situation was infuriating! I know what you mean about the dress. Gorgeous color and fabric, but something odd about the fit around the shoulders.
Yes! The neck thing on the dress was driving me bananas. And considering Shiv’s outfits have been immaculately cut to her figure – this really stood out to me as misstep.Alhough I recently read a great article that argued Shiv’s glow-up was the wrong direction. I’m not sure I agree – but it was an interesting analysis.
I thought she was stunning in season one as well? just less corporate looking.
Tom was my absolute least favorite character in season 1. One of the greatest feats of season 2, IMO, was figuring out how to make me care about the bastard.
It was crystal clear to me from Season 3 Episode 1 that Sarah Snook gained weight during the break. She gained weight between season 1 and 2 and now a little more between season 2 and 3. It’s very obvious. She’s absolutely stunning either way but the dress enhanced the weight gain and that’s what you’re all seeing and commenting about.
The dress was sort of perfectly off in that way that every single Pete Campbell costume was off in Mad Men. Like you don’t know what’s wrong without really analyzing it but it looks bad in a subtle, unsettling way
Tom was actually trying to help Greg in this episode. He put up the front of “punishing” him in the office with a shitty storage room, but the call about the lawyers and trying to get outside help was smart on his part. I also think the lawyer Tom ended up calling is going to be Greg and Ewan’s lawyer, and that the friend who recommended him was Greg.
The talk about lawyers was Tom manipulating Greg: he floats it as ‘hey, talk to my lawyer guy!’, but the catch is ‘we should just make sure we both remember things… the same way’. You know, on the record, with the lawyer who works for Tom and not Greg…
Good point.
My god im glad im not the only one who who noticed that. I felt like a pig for thinking, has she gained weight. That was atrocious and im suprised it wasnt noticed and corrected.
The dress wasn’t her best look, but it was way better that that pantsuit Naomi was wearing.
The combination of the way it was cut and the way she stands/posture sometimes makes it look like her head is on backwards. I love her costumes and her character’s style, but she needs to stand straighter to really make some of them shine.
I think Tom is obviously cooperating with the Feds. His talk with Shiv and Logan were just to see if they have any loyalty to him (Spoiler alert, they don’t). He secured his own legal counsel, and then went to the Feds. That way, he can get immunity for his part in the cover-up, and potentially also save Shiv by invoking the 5th amendment (if he so chooses, which is an interesting point and may give him some feeling of power in the Tom-Shiv dynamic). Tom is not a “good guy”, but his flaw is, at its root, cowardice. He is a mortal playing on Olympus, and has allowed his desire to remain on Olympus compromise whatever morals he has.
It’s really great that the show is even playing mind games with the viewers. Who send the box of donuts? Who set up the speakers?In one of the promotional videos they’ve been uploading on their Youtube channel, Cox and the others were talking as if Logan actually sent the donuts and didn’t bring up the possibility that someone else did, so maybe we’re just overthinking this.
Who send the box of donuts? Who set up the speakers? These “mind games” are merely inventions of the audience and overall, dumb.There is no mind games in terms of “who” in either of these events.Who sent the donuts? Logan did. Who set up the speakers and played the Nirvana song? Kendall did (his team). That’s it. Fin.
I agree, there’s just too much going on for the writers to add multiple audience fake-outs to the mix. For the most part things are going to be as they seem or will be explained pretty quickly if not.
Which is why I said “Maybe we’re just overthinking this” and brought up how the cast talked about it as a fact.Like, do you guys just read something you disagree with and jump straight to click “Reply” without finishing the post or what…
No, I read your whole post and then I fashioned my response to completely dismiss the possibility of “mind games”.
No, I know the show isn’t literally playing mind games with the audience. It’s just a figure of speech. Sheesh, some people really take this thing like it’s life or death, huh?
Seriously, this show is not exactly a mystery…
Cox said on the post-episode vignette last week, “I don’t even know if [Logan] knew about the donuts.” But that’s just his opinion based on what was written and shown. I think the show heavily implied Logan did send them, especially when Roman said, “thanks for the donuts.”
Logan sent the donuts. Kendall had the speakers set up. Both are clearly established. (Although of course the purpose of both was to play mind games with characters. But Succession doesn’t play mind games with the audience.)
I swear it felt like there as a slight flicker on Logan last episode when the donuts were mentioned, as if he didn’t quite know what was being talked about but certainly didn’t want to tip his hand on anything?
But I’m not sure the idea of Tom or Gerri sending them makes a ton of sense.
Which is why I said “Maybe we’re just overthinking this” and brought up how the cast talked about it as a fact.Like, do you guys just read something you disagree with and jump straight to click “Reply” without finishing the post or what…
Ohh..Given the number of folks who wildly-misinfer a key series-altering sequence involving Kendall: One would have to really believe it, in order to respect the undercurrent of Sophie #2-esque Populism.
My only sibling is a kid sister. Watching Kendall and Shiv attack and hurt each other tonight was brutal and heartbreaking. This series is so good as family drama with the members expressing their vulnerabilities, insecurities, emotions, primal needs, great hurts for and at each other through their business moves. A powerfully affecting portrait of sublimation and not being capable of sharing honest feeling and love. Mike Nichols would have loved it.Stanout performance by Jeremy Strong tonight, especially walking down the comedy show’s hallway and sitting scared and forlorn in the room. Masterfully directed. I liked the lingering shot of a similar looking bathtub to the premiere’s when Kendall was in it after the whistleblower press conference; the same symbol of his very precarious emotional state. I applaud the writers for dramatizing the horribleness of addiction via the unique metaphor of social justice.
I second your comments re. Strong tonight. I thought the limo scene was SO deftly performed. He wants to be the guy who is so self-aware that he can take the criticism, but those bad tweets cut deep. And Strong’s oh-so-subtle shift in his facial expression captured it perfectly. Didn’t even need to say anything.
“waystar|ROYCO®” PR released “bad tweets”?
didn’t think it was even more possible for jeremy strong to top the work he did in Season 2 but we’re 3 episodes in and he has been hitting homerun after homerun my god. the whole cast is absolutely killing it but the 4 kids, especially snook and strong this season, have been so goddamn good. the fact that i watch this show fully invested in these siblings relationships knowing that the chances of them ever coming together as like normal human beings and supporting each other is like basically zero.. . lmao i’m a masochist. i think roman/kendall/connor still have a chance but hoo boy everything with kendall/shiv… i don’t know where they go from that.
I think Culkin may be the most impressive, because it’s so high-wire. The other characters, if less well acted, would just be less engaging. But Roman is so obnoxious, and so ridiculously weird (just watch him wandering away from the interview prep, or even just that horribly contorted bent-over position he adopts when declining to sign the letter), that a worse performance would ruin the character completely. At the very least, it takes a lot to take Roman – whose words and actions are all so horrible – and make him one of the most sympathetic characters. But I also think that just making him understandable and funny, and not just uncanny-valley weird and offputting, is an accomplishment…
I think you’re both right. Strong and Culkin are absolutely KILLING it this season.
He doesn’t come across as sympathetic.Unless you’re Machiavellian, to be sure.
“DOJ is going to be like a combine harvester in a wheat field of dicks.”I thought Shiv’s look at the the benefit to meet up with Kendall was such a stunning, beautifully realized make over for her for — a pitch perfect and powerful styling so true to her character………This show has uncanny ability to convey wealth without ostentation, it’s a universe all the actors excel in navigating because it’s all their characters have known.
I though Siobh’s look for that was dangerously ‘Roman Empress’-y. Evening wear doesn’t inherently make people evil, or delusional, but from her it does feel like she’s evolving to be more and more… confident. I don’t think it suits her![and in a literal sense, I think she’s someone who actually looks best when she’s not admitting that she’s trying to look good, if that makes any sense – she’s really striking in a suit. But, everyone’s mileage may vary there…]
Now you see I saw it as forward, nevertheless timeless and exuding absolute class with a take-no-prisoners undertone. Which is why in spite of some of her poor power plays, she I like of all the Roys.
“y’know PGN pulls up that photo of me with a ponytail anytime they wanna make me look untrustworthy.”y’all, i fuckin’ hollered. Team Con 4 Life. 😩😆
Connor, the sibling you hate to love(and I’m gonna need that photo to pop up in the background at some point)
Connor’s the best.
I’m with Gwen on this one: Connor may be a lickspittle dipshit with a fake girlfriend, but he’s still the best Roy kid by miles.
Which shows PGN® is just as much of a propaganda-news.Just the one which is in mainstream, though.
Setting up the speakers would be a typical “You can get away with a lot if you just act like you’re supposed to be there” situations.It’s a corporate town hall meeting. Nobody would consider it suspicious to see someone setting up speakers around the room. You could get away with it as long as you didn’t act nervous or sneaky or defensive.
Truly cannot put into words how uncomfortable and anxious every Logan-Roman interaction makes me. Also- what does coming out on top even mean at this point?On a different note, this new variation of the theme music (the one at the end) is insane and bombastic and I’m gonna need the soundtrack released like right fucking now!
It’s “truth and reconciliation”, not “trust”.
Indeed, that is what I heard as well.
The watch business between Greg and Kendall felt pretty telling to me. The only reason Kendall didn’t take the fall last season was because Greg ended up siding with him, but he still doesn’t really respect Greg or treat him with genuine kindness. I wouldn’t be surprised if Greg sides with Tom or the rest of the family, because as is Kendall isn’t doing much to encourage loyalty from him.
I’m guessing Greg will end up contributing to burn both sides, although perhaps accidentally.
To be fair, Greg is pretty much useless. We still don’t even know what happened between Ken and Greg concerning the papers or what was even on the papers. He only saved like 2, right?Of course that doesn’t excuse the watch thing.
Greg feels like he’s falling apart as much as Kendall.
When has Greg not been falling apart?I think the happiest we’ve ever seen him was when he was talking about getting California Pizza Kitchen in season one.
Greg was ordered by his superiors to burn evidence. Not only is he a key witness, he has actual paper evidence that the event occurred (even if the papers are actually benign individually).
Why not?Coddling consumerism is such an angelic thing?
I’m just replying because apparently they finally fixed it so clicking on replies in your notifications actually takes you to the replies now.
Well..Doesn’t appear to be the case from my Chromium®-engine based smartphone browser..But anything to reply to my comment, or is it just “{test}” thingy?
I’d guess that all the lawyering games among Tom and Greg are leading to the two of them forming their own little faction, or at least Tom attempting to do so. I don’t believe for a second that Tom would actually go to jail for the Roys. Tom and Greg are two of the most directly implicated in the whole cruises scandal, so turning state’s witness might be the only way to save their skins.
And what a score by Nicholas Britell this week. I think this was the first time the theme had been played (briefly) on guitar, but that explosion of strings in the finale was just thrilling.
They’d previously used guitar for the theme in the Austerlitz episode at Connor’s ranch in Season 1. But this was the first time since then, that I noticed.
I was going to say that myself – as a classical music fan, it’s so great when a show gets a real composer and lets them go at it, without them having to disguise it in quirkiness or pop overtones. The finale of this episode was a full-on Romantic piano concerto (ok, with a few 20th century elements, but in spirit), and it was great. Liszt would have approved!
I really, really liked the brutally slow version of it in the server room with Kendall slowly unravelling.
I love when Succession gets ambiguous on us. Who sent the donuts? Who set up the speakers? What’s the deal with the guy going “I know you?” It reminds me of when the Sopranos would get supernatural on us every now and then, except obviously not supernatural–just a reminder of how much these people don’t know.
It is 100% not ambiguous at all, to anyone paying even the tiniest bit of attention.“Who sent the donuts? – Logan did. It is not even a question.Who set up the speakers? – Kendall did. It is not even a question.What’s the deal with the guy going “I know you?” – That’s Collin – Logan’s head of security. He almost choked the life outta Greg when Greg first approached Logan on Logan’s bday at his swanky pad in NYC, down in the lobby area. Later we see him have that Hispanic family sign an NDA after “the gam” where Roman offered the kid 1 Million if he hit a Homerun. And then he is the guy who cleaned up the “mess” from Kendall’s car accident/river adventure and then walks Kendall through everything in E1 of S2.See, not ambiguous at all.
The “I know you” guy is Colin, Logan’s head of security, who cleaned up the death of the waiter caused by Kendall back in Season 1. He’s been in a lot of episodes. He was not-so-subtly reminding Kendall of what he knows about him as an intimidation tactic.
It worked, my wife and I were thoroughly intimidated by him and his dead-eyed delivery.
That look on his face when it’s revealed he’s just standing in Ken’s office watching him, “Just checking in.” COLD.
Duh…;
i see that, as the show becomes more popular, incredibly dumb people are watching it now
I don’t understand the sense of ambiguity people have about who set up the speakers. Kendall sends his lackey on a “shopping trip”, then the speakers play Rape Me during Shiv’s speech (which is totally the edgelord move that Kendall would think is so cool and transgressive) and then when Shiv goes to Kendall’s office, it’s full of unpacked speaker boxes.
Agreed. I think it’s pretty clear-cut.
People here are “dumb”. It isn’t even a question, yet look at all the sleuths on here trying to “figure it out”.It was Kendall’s team, clear as day.
The people who think Logan sabotaged Shiv with Nirvana have got to be the same people who write ‘ending explained’ articles for content farms
To quote another song from the same Nirvana album, those people are “DUMB”
To be sure, G/O® Media doesn’t have very high standards — either.Unless.. You’re defining it ‘the other way’.
I’m not dumb and I’m not trying to “figure it out,” but I can tell you my wife and I were genuinely confused. I’ll take your word for it and it certainly tracks that it was Kendall, but I don’t think it was clear.
You think quotations serve as some kinda mitigation for your name-calling?
Oh sweetheart, I’m sorry, did being called dumb hurt your feelings? Feel free to fuck off if you don’t like it.Also, Happy Thanksgiving too!
Ouch!Caustic wiseassery?.! Must be a “#TeamRoman” or even better, “#TeamShiv” twaddle.In any case..Given the “devil-may-care” attitude to throwing words around with record of social-stigma while otherwise pretending to be just-another “pC-SjW”, one can see that like either of the idols from the show: Textbook symptoms of DKE.And no, I’m not a fucken Murican to care about some desolate “festivity” of exceptionalists celebrating the annihilation of indigenous peoples under the garb of pithy “kumbāyā”, for that I would’ve to be a neoliberal — at the very least. Even if not a Murican one at that.
Where are the keyboard warriors who talk like you real life? I wonder. What a pathetic, sad, small comment.
These are the same people who aren’t sure if Don Draper wrote that Coke ad, even though the show’s creator said he did….
This was my favorite of the season so far. J. Smith-Cameron is always great, but I enjoy seeing her as a foil for Logan. Also Ziwe!
I was so glad to see Ziwe, but I wish they’d given her stronger jokes. She’s one of the sharpest in the game right now, but Sophie’s material was… lacking.
I thought her delivery was pretty unpolished for what was supposed to be a network show. Not surprised to find out she’s a YouTube celebrity.
I mean, she’s got a popular show on Showtime. Maybe her delivery was stilted to your ears because the jokes weren’t up to snuff for her.
Last time I checked, (SHO)WTIME® once dragged a series of YouTube® shorts onto linear TV, obviously on their own network.Why?Just ‘cus it was headlined by none-other-than ‘F.RI.E.N.D.S®’ alum Ms Lisa Kudrow.They didn’t even change the name!So while I’m sure she has worked hard to reach where she is, especially that name as prestigious as A24® — is involved. Especially when it has to be considered within the prospects in what’s [very ]arguably the world’s most accessible arts-&-media industry.But that doesn’t mean that (SHO)®’s judgment is bound to result in gold for them, if they somehow manage to achieve silver. Ahh.. Welp! At least unlike ‘Desus & Mero®’ which is owned by “Gavin McInnes-phantom haunted” VICE® Media°, at least they were smart enough to ‘do the HBO®’ here. Still not much overseas-takers for her show, it appears. Appears like one of those..
I’ve gone back and forth on whether the unfunnyness of Sophie’s show was intentional or not. I think part of it is just the context in which it’s presented – it’s hard to present a fictional movie or show-within-a-show without the manufactured artifice becoming obvious. But I think that last line she has where she somewhat obliviously calls Shiv “the nice one” is supposed to be a tell that Sophie isn’t really as sharp and insightful as she tries to present herself, so maybe the jokes were dulled intentionally.
Or maybe..Just maybe..As her interview with Variety® itself serve as a bit of a testament to: Miraculously..It’s a wee bit of show’s writers indicting the talk-show circuit and Philosophically, pop-culture writ-large’s urge to be judgmental and be all-out partisan even in matters which don’t directly concern them, nevermind while jumping in a partisan-fight — all they’ve mostly is “connecting-the-dots” propelling conjecture, as don’t know both sides of a flight sufficiently well. All of that to feed the hopelessly unending, sadistic wave of voyeurism itself feeding the beast of Populism. And that was delivered in a.. I dunno? Self-deprecating way?(I personally hold the conviction that HBO® has itself hosted few of the most toxic talk-show personalities on its dimes/funds over the years — to say the least.)
Good find
Took me sometime to relocate this after having read originally:Oh, why?Seriously?If so: Thank You. Which part of my musing came across as _discovery_ to you, though?
Were you not quoting from the Variety interview that you referenced?
Errrmmm..Nope.I didn’t quote verbatim, or even indirectly. As if that’s not enough, I didn’t even paraphrase any of her phrases directly. I merely referenced it to offer my own take.Nothing less, nothing more.
Ah well, nevermind then. The way you referenced the Variety interview followed by a colon made it seem like you were quoting.
Ahh…No worries!Have a blissful life ahead. 😊
Errrmmm..Is that so?Her interview with the showbiz-news’ largest & “let’s sponsor the Desert in Davos after a maverick journo is chopped-into-pieces under diplomatic-immunity” PMC®, or at most, now their a ‘wee bit more radical, socially, not just performatively “woke” JV ops’-run Variety®: Made her look as much average as the show portrayed her as fictionalized Sophie #2.Unless you think if Ms Ziwe pointing-out that she, her [non-unionised & mistreated “UN[O]” ]writers and white-coswomyn showrunner were wrong to go ahead with the idea of mocking the [ purported ]mental-health issues of a public-figure, even if _hot-cakes_ one at that — is certainly not her ‘jam’ and is kind of an ‘ethical dilemma’ for her. But this is fucken 2021! Caring about mental aberrations, or even joyfully-pretending to care about neurodiverse folks is so much _en vogue_ ATM.So how does that make her “sharpest” of all in the US talk-show circuit, nevermind the transatlantic one as as whole — I dunno.Should I keep going? Or have I already stepped onto your toe?
“He’s bootleg Ross with a Daddy complex” Okay fine, I confess my ignorance. Who is Ross?
The largest of the Friends.
Oh! Huh. Okay, yeah, that tracks.
why doesn’t kendall, the largest of the roys, not simply eat the other 3?
Why does he not simply eat the other five?!
Why does he not simply go on a drug bender and drown the other five?
Well, metaphorically, that’s exactly what Kendall is trying to do! [the other five being Roman, Siobh, Connor, Greg and, although he doesn’t know it yet, Amir].Wait, is Succession just disguised Friends fan-fiction!?
And it is such a good description of Kendall that I’m sure it must have come up in the writer’s room. As criticism of the character, or as a shorthand description for him?
Watching Kendall be so obviously bi-polar is really hard to watch. The mania, then the self-pitying downside…. just fukn brutal.
Given how horrible his situation is – he killed a guy, his family did unspeakable things, he’s ripping his family apart, everyone hates him, he’s a national laughing-stock, he has little contact with his children, etc – it’s possible it’s just mania, and the moments of crushing misery are actually not depression but just lucid reality…
Ahh..The good ol’ full-o’-double-standards of “opining” over “kIlLeD”/”mUrDerEd” from folks who can’t even bother to recollect the victim’s name…..In a piece of fiction, all Thanks to their wild-misinference of a key-sequence most-likely enabled by other works of fiction emphasizing such ‘big’ developments by [action-replay ]slomo, especially if the editor has to sell the desperation of a writer hard( in this case, it was ‘reverse _deus ex machina_’).Welp!
I wouldn’t be surprised if it were revealed that he was on coke again at some point this season. His behavior absolutely indicates it.
Kendall scenes are pretty much always cringe (the desperate desire to please mixed with viciously turning on people when they don’t give him the validation he needs, the big coked up energy even when he’s sober, the self-loathing, etc etc etc) but this season in particular has been brutal to watch.
This is not for ‘knucklemindbusts’ as while it may not be primarily about the character-in-question, it aims to stretch the perspective by expanding the scope of characters for the purposes of this discussion. In other words, if anybody reading this could only process things only literally — they better remain happy that the following is not for them:Errrmmm..I dunno?!!If “cringe”=bad..Then your selective shortlisting of ‘Kenny’ non-wishwashed under “etc etc etc[ _sic_ ]” notwithstanding…..It’s actually Siobhan “Shiv” Roy who has been so consistently infuriatingly since the 1st episode.I mean.. Forget about the HBO®’s marketing-misfire of the very 1st season( the trailer) which was apparently too much echoing the current writers’ room mind that it couldn’t convince most until at least the season was well halfway during original broadcast-run, and appeared pretty much like a soap-opera with “premium” sensibilities to me.( Home Box Office®’s answer to (SHO)WTIME®’s ‘The Affair®’, of sorts.) Obviously, back then: I was so wrong about the show.But other than myself coming around for Kendall and lately, questioning myself for Roman — Siobhan appeared much like a coddled, entitled narcissist to me( the worst in my own sister) and as the series has progressed.. Turns out Logan’s most-favored child is “the smartest of all” in her unabated narcissism only-&-only ‘cus when it comes to consciously and most-importantly, successfully manipulating somebody squarely for one’s own individual-interests — she has proven to come 2nd. Especially if it’s somebody outside her own bloodline. So.. That’s the level of progress I’ve noticed in her: Not sure how that’s supposed to make me go in awe of her.And yes, I do understand that the gender-politics laden cacophony around the show’s buzz since years means we’ve to have lower-standards for her and worse, we can’t even consider the magnitude of sins wilfully committed by her very same as when committed by her siblings or somebody else who doesn’t come attached with ♀️. Kinda makes you think that Kendall’s wrath by the episode’s end either: A) Proves the writers are desperate to remark critically on the“pC-sJW” laden( read neoliberal) methodology of judging people by “style over substance”. Given the buzz by her “fans”/”stans”, nofolks more as loudly as “critics” themselves integrity going the kumbāyā of: “Strong, independent, self-made” boobs-&-pubes. B) That the writers themselves are neoliberals under the “light-touch” veneer of radicals, à la translatlantic talk-show circuits — arguably the most-toxic bunch of whom are camped out there on HBO®’s very own dimes itself, in other words: A bunch of struggling “losers with no better revenue-line” became writers after stereotypically “getting indoctrinated by Ivy League professors plugging the coastal elite cosmopolitan BS through-&-through” to those poor “corrupted” souls who get their ultimate kick by reading NYREV( *spoiler-alert:* Kendall Roy’s purported RL foundational-inspiration — Mr James ‘Jimmy’ Murdoch, is himself widely reported as an avid, might I say, fanatical reader of it; in addition to having worked for “Lampoon” during his uni years — ‘course). The latest-article about Siobhan in Slate® right after this episode had one of still existing Grahams’ minions essentially aiming to moan that the cacophony of sympathy is not being reflected by the masses as much as they desire is simply “’cus she’s not developed enough” and that there’s apparently nothing distinguished about the Kendall but he’s sympathetic simply ‘cus of the screentime he gets than all of other siblings. At the very least, they commendably concede that Shiv appears unreal ‘cus she’s written without major flaw/vulnerabilities “to overcompensate for her womanness”( direct-quote, still). So all in all, the writers are too much “pC-SjW” to essentially serve a “Mary Sue” role to be taken seriously — says one amongst the brethren.C) That the writers are significantly neither but mere cowards, trying to play off of both-sides with their schizoid storyboarding of plot-developments.
Is English your second language? If not, is your poor grammar a stylistic choice? It appears to be a deliberate choice, one which obscures your points.
“@BillyFever”: Is that you? Anyhoo..I [still ]believe I did a very good job at disclaiming my analysis for those prone to hackneyed-tactics like “English-speaker supremacy” cred.So..
Are [ you[ (il)ietrate?
Ohh…Good-ey…!Yet-another “I pay premium for my TV to get taken along for a ride” gullible sock-puppet is here, folks…!
I think Connor might be my favorite character, in a close battle with Tom. I have become convinced that prior to the events of the show Connor was the golden child, the one Logan wanted to take over, but Connor (probably due to his mother) turned out to be kind hearted and sensitive as we see in the sweet memory of him taking Roman fishing and in his desire to always remain above the fray. Then Logan, knowing from the season 2 finale that he’s looking for a “killer” to take over, passed over him. And so Connor’s good natured kind heartedness turned to a cold aloofness, simultaneously freed from the pressure of having to live up to this father but also crushed that he didn’t live up to his father’s expectations, who now wanders directionless, but who feels like he could have really been something, which leads to his sense of self importance.
Connor is a lot like Fredo Corleone minus the betrayal.
I feel Logan realized Connor was a dimwit early and worked harder on getting the other kids more savvy.
Sure, but going by the actors’ ages, there’s a 20+ year gap between Connor and Kendall. So Connor would have had at least, what, 25* years to prove himself to his dad (assuming he wanted to) before Kendall emerged as an even somewhat viable option?My head canon is that Connor realized earlier than Kendall did that his father would never step down from the company, so he started pursuing other interests to make it seem like abdicating the title of “heir” was his decision.*Should really be more like 35-40, but Logan seems like the type who would start grooming a ruthless business tycoon from kindergarten.
My assumption has always been that Connor was raised primarily by his mother, and that he only saw Logan occasionally after Logan’s first divorce. In contrast, Kendall, Roman, and Shiv all grew up primarily with Logan, because their mom moved back to the UK after Logan’s second divorce. Connor’s looser connections to the family and the company are just an extension of this dynamic.
It’s a testament to Kieran Culkin’s performance that he’s gone from my most despised character to someone deserving of the most empathy. His vulnerability and faux-carelessness when dealing with Logan is painful.And he’s the only sibling who’s grown emotionally over the course of the show. I just remember him in last year’s season finale, trying to connect with Shiv and Kendall on the yacht, and both of them mocking him for his vulnerability in the moment.
I think the thing that’s kept Roman from being utterly intolerable, at least to me, is that he’s the one Roy who has no illusions about who he is. Shiv and Kendall both think they’re good people. Connor thinks he’s important. Tom and Greg, in their own ways, front so hard to look like they belong with the rest. Even Gerri uses strict definitions and wordings to wash her hands of things when necessary. Only Roman and maybe Stewy seem to understand that they’re objectively awful people and might as well enjoy it.
I think Marcia is also pretty confident on being awful. Meanwhile, Evan is definitively more like the others, in thinking he’s better than he is (he complains about the direction of the company destroying the world, but still takes the money).
Takes the money, AND sits on the board. He’s not just getting rich off it; he could actually exert some level of control if he really wanted to, and actively chooses not to
Well, in theory – but since the rest of the board are just Logan’s hand-picked lapdogs, Ewan has no actual ability to do anything…
He could’ve sided with Kendall’s coup. He could’ve incited one of his own at some point down the line. I have to imagine he’s not totally without his own level of influence.
Logan barely survived a coup by Kendall, and in part because the latter self-sabotaged. I wouldn’t be surprised if Evan was able to at least reign him Logan a little if he was around and actually serious about improving the company- there’s plenty of people there that don’t care for Logan, and Evan is one of the few people he can’t bully.
But I think that from Ewan’s point of view that sort of coup – replacing one narcissistic capitalist tyrant with another – is pointless and accomplishes nothing. Certainly nothing it’s worth stabbing his brother in the back for (Ewan is always going to put personal honour over marginal corporate governance improvements). A coup that put Ewan in charge isn’t viable, because the board won’t vote for him (he has no experience and he wants to destroy both the company and the system of global capitalism).Ewan’s point is that the game is rigged, and that all viable outcomes – Logan uses the company to do evil, Kendall uses the company to do evil, Furness uses the company to do evil, etc – are more or less interchangeably awful. If one of these outcomes IS marginally better than any other, then Ewan knows he can’t spot which it is – everyone is lying, and everyone will change their decisions in a heartbeat as events change anyway. And any attempt to play this game will bring disappointment (when it all goes wrong), dishonour (when he has to do something morally questionable, like betraying his brother), and moral contamination (for even getting involved in all this evil). So for him, the only way not to lose is not to play. Try to live a personally virtuous life, and try to use the proceeds of his connexion to the company for some sort of good, without collaborating. Given the unhappiness and increasingly dirty hands of his niece and nephews and grandson, I find it hard to say that he’s wrong in this regard.
Maybe he’d change his mind if there were some prospect of a genuinely radical reformer sweeping in – after all, he did hear Kendall out. And he might accept that as an outcome of the current chaos: put all the dirty laundry in public, and then either the company collapses (hopefully incriminating other wrongdoers in the process), or else the shareholders are forced to accept some radical reform. But this “shuffle the blood-stained deckchairs in the boardroom” game that the others are playing, he has no interest in.[and of course we have to remember that he’s been in this position for a long time now. Who knows what he planned or schemed in the past, only to fail?]
Yeah, our difference here is that you seem (to me) to overrate Evan’s genuine commitment to anti-capitalism, a better world and what not. I don’t think he’s an entirely cynical person merely using progressive ideas as an excuse to look better (that would be Shiv), but, ultimately, for decades he has been sitting on the board of a company that, according to him, has killed more people than Hitler, and did nothing but take the checks.
Sure, but I don’t see why that’s morally or psychologically relevant. The question isn’t what he did or didn’t do, but what he should have done yet failed to do. Blaming people for not doing things they couldn’t have done anyway is pointless (although clearly Ewan does blame himself nonetheless).
The question is: Whether Ewan is worse than Kendall, or not.I understand if it hits too close to the home…..But last episode: Ew-an bared all that he’s just-another toxic-persona of a “pC-SjW”. A performatively-woke charlatan whose expertise is in monologue-delivery. Such a USP!Using buzzwords like “eViL” to convey “Logan=Kendall=same-same” reductionism ain’t gonna cut it, “doooood.”
Yeah I think the fear of being possibly beheaded in a foreign nation was a big wake-up call to Roman and he’s been pretty well-adjusted (for him, at least) so far this season.
In a show full of faultless performances, Kieran Culkin’s is the best, and he’s been utterly incredible so far this season. Strong is great as Kendall, but it’s easier to play mania; Culkin’s ability to portray Roman’s hurt, resentment, insecurity and vulnerability bubbling just under the surface is much tougher.
Roman casually revealing that Connor was the one who took him fishing might be the saddest moment in Succession so far. The evolution of Roman has been my favourite character arc across the series. He was such a relentless (but amusing) dickhead, yet with each new reveal of his childhood, you can tell he’s the most traumatised of all the kids. I hope he gets a full face turn by the end of this season.
I may be misreading, but it seems people are missing the exquisite nuance of Logan’s remarks to Roman regarding his ‘warm and fuzzy’ interview. People seem to be interpreting it as ungrateful and homophobic, but it seemed to me Logan attempting AND failing a genuine effort to relate. Logan is another generation and hasn’t had close relations with his kids, but he has a sense that Roman buffers his sentiments in scatalogical and perverse snark. It’s analogous to Kendall’s ham-handed attempts to relate to the zeitgeist on social media with gang signs and catchphrases. A fumbled attempt to relate to ‘fellow kids’ in ‘their vernacular,’
I kinda see this; Logan seems to Roman here in the same tone he uses when he’s trying to keep Roman on his side, like the conversation after Logan hit him, or when Logan sends him to go after foreign money. Of course with the insults he uses its the best of both worlds for Logan: he gets to abuse his son verbally while also trying to relate.
I think Logan was also genuinely hurt that Roman didn’t have a single happy memory about the two of them to share — as well as the fact that Shiv refused to even try — but of course he can’t just say that, so he lashes out instead.
I like this reading. Of the four kids, I have to imagine Logan has the hardest time understanding Roman – Connor, Kendall, and Shiv he seems to have pretty well figured out.
Great recap! Yes, that security guard was involved with the coverup of Kendall’s Season 1 wrongdoing.At this point I have my doubts about Waystar Royco surviving this and I don’t care who winds up in charge of this crumbling media empire…and I think that’s the point. The show will end at some point (probably sooner than later) and whoever survives will have created more wreckage both inside the family and out in the world at large than they could have ever built.
Yeah, while the show is understandably focused on the Roy family and the question of who succeeds Logan, it seems overwhelmingly likely that none of the siblings take over and the company ends up under outside control or broken apart / divvied up.It fits the Shakespearan tragedy feel of the show — Logan is so obsessed with retaining control that he undermines his legacy, with all of his brute force and scheming all for nought.
Shiv’s decision to release the letter was less an active “alignment from [her] toward Logan” than it was a very spiteful and rushed reaction to the stunt at Waystar Royco. To me, there was no business strategy thinking there, just a full, ruthless personal vengeance because Kendall ruined her introduction as the president of the company and she can sort of say “he did it to me first”. It was finally her time to shine and she felt humiliated.
Also, it feels good when a show that consistent starts giving answers, bit by bit, to things that have been bubbling under the surface for so long. It feels earned. The score of this show… I ended the episode with my hands in the air. Bring it on, Succession.
I think it’s not just that he ruined her moment. I think that, after his ‘teats’ ranting last week, Siobh felt personally humiliated and attacked that her brother would plan to have her stand up and speak and have people just hear ‘rape me’… I mean, that’s not just “spoil the big day” humiliation, that’s seriously, viscerally degrading misogynistic humiliation…[I do wonder whether there’s actually a perverted sort of altruism in Siobh’s letter, though. It doesn’t just read as attack – it reads as recognition that he is genuinely mentally ill and needs help. I wonder whether on some level – underneath the level where it’s a political ploy, and the level where it’s a furious counterattack – she might actually mean it and see this as a sort of… intervention!?]
I see your point on the stunt. It was terrible. Maybe I’m way off but I didn’t see it as directly and personally aimed at Shiv, though, but at the whole family and executives in front of that podium and for everyone in the building to witness. It was cruel, and in keeping with Kendall’s megalomania, and yes Shiv was the one standing there, but to me, the song was a comment on the whole cover-up and on everyone in that building who chooses to ignore it. Her move was personal.
I probably agree with you that Kendall didn’t mean it as a personal attack on Siobh – and that the misogyny was thoughtless rather than the point of the stunt. But I’m not sure that Siobh would have seen it that way – I think it probably felt very personal to her.
I don’t think it was all about Shiv but it’s partly about Shiv. When Kendall made the decision to go over there, he called his lawyer and one of the justifications he gave for going (something it sounded like his lawyer didn’t approve of) was that his sister was starting to make moves and he wanted to counter. So it wasn’t just Waystar’s townhall he was trying to crash, he knew it was his sister’s debut he was ruining. That’s personal.
Nirvana’s 🎤Rape Me🎤 is also “misogynistic degradation” out-of-a-sudden when it comes to defending Siobhan “The Destroyer deity”, yet-another ‘I-hate-anything-Kendall’ keyboard-warrior?
For people in comments waiting for the hidden reveal that Logan sabotaged Shiv, or that Roman really drove that waiter into the lake and Kendall’s just covering for him, or that Marcia is really Connor’s wife, take the time to read ex-AV Club great Emily VanDerWurff on why Succession doesn’t work this way (in short: because its focus is character, not plot):https://www.vox.com/culture/2019/10/16/20915933/succession-season-2-finale-twist-logan-kendall-this-is-not-for-tears
Yeah, and honestly the biggest tell is that the stunt is never really discussed after. Obviously it shakes Shiv up but even when other people bring it up she shrugs it off. If it was supposed to be plot relevant, it wouldn’t be treated like that.
Waaiiitttt..Who connects the name of ‘Angel Roman’ with what-could-be-described-at-worst-as: Assisted suicide of Andrew “Doddy” Dodds?
When Kendall ridiculously shouted “Fuck the Patriarchy” at the photographers, it looked like Greg has to cover his face to stifle a laugh. I just wonder if that was a Greg move? Or did Nicholas Braun have to cover his laughing at the ridiculousness of it all?
I don’t think this show leaves reactions like that in by accident. Another example from this episode is Roman stifling a laugh when “Rape Me” starts playing.
Probably both. I could see Greg nervously giggling at that, and also Braun laughing because Strong’s delivery was just hilarious.
Tom isn’t really going to sacrifice himself. That’s why immediately after speaking with Logan he calls his outside counselor. I don’t know how you can miss something like this. He clearly tells Logan that he has already spoken to one, and then it is almost immediately shown to be a lie.
Yeah, I think Tom does mean it in the moment when he says it to Shiv, but when the chips are down there’s no way in hell he voluntarily falls on his sword for the Roys.
More convinced than ever that Greg is going to be, in the end, the successor to Logan. Every sibling has _something_ going on that could destroy them- as the potential successor to Logan as family and corporate head. And each of them is willing to cut throats to either retain their secrets or climb the corporate ladder. They will destroy each other. There is not a nice on there. Greg will be pulled in by default. He will be the only family member in close range, acceptable to the rest- as he _is_ a family member, and one that they think they control- and with a clean enough record to be seen, by the board, the government and the public as someone who can pull the business together.
I can sorta see it from the perspective that he has the fewest skeletons, but if Shiv is considered too green to be CEO, how the hell does Cousin Greg get there in any reasonable period of time?If anything, I can see Tom ending up in charge. Sure, he was in charge of Cruises when some shit went down, but he can credibly* say that he came in well after the worst incidents occurred and took the lead on cleaning it up. And now he’s head of ATN, arguably the most powerful division of Waystar.*In the sense that the media/investors could be made to believe it; the audience would know he’s full of shit.
The Roys absolutely see him as a patsy. All sorts of shit is going down, each of the family members ends up too tainted, publicly, to be installed and keep things together. Or to avoid some kind of hostile take-0ver or other corporate dismembering. Cousin Greg is offered up as an acceptable figurehead. A certain amount of continuity for the family and board and public, whom all sides see as a man they can manipulate.And then Greg reveals himself to be far less of a fool than they believe. Steps up and pushes all these vipers right back to the pit and takes over.Oh… yeah.
I do not get Cathy Yan’s career path. She makes a weird clearly internationally produced Chinese satire and then makes the other comic book film series. Just weird.
So, when does Logan drop the bomb of the proof that Kendall killed that waiter in season 1? I can’t be the only person who knew even then that Logan would use that against Kendall at some point in the future. I predict whenever Kendall gets an upper hand or a strangehold on his dad this season, Logan will drop this as a last resort, as alluded to by the head of security threatening Kendall in this episode. Best line of the episode? Roman and Shiv’s cheerleader exchange actually made me laugh out loud. They may be awful people, but they still fight like siblings.
This episode should have easily been an A. It was incredible.
I don’t think Tom was telling Logan he would actually go to jail for him. I believe Tom was using that to gauge Logan’s reaction if he thought someone might actually have to go to jail for it.Had Logan’s reaction been much more hand-waving, it would have solidified to Tom that he was fine.Instead, Logan said “Thank you” after a less than confident “It won’t come to that”
This show just gets more nuanced and interesting with each season. Kendall is such a fascinating character study. I’ve never seen such an excellent performance of a potentially psychopathic future mogul. Wall Street, and Wolf of Wall Street present amped up caricatures, but Kendall pervades the real personality – part Zuckerberg, part Gates – just someone freaked out about the position of insane power they’re in. Totally helpless and powerful at the same time.
The only character I like is Hugo, and typically in order to enjoy a show I have to be able to connect (good or bad) to at least one of the characters…. Yet here I am thoroughly enjoying watching a show where I can’t root for anyone lol.
Isn’t it Birds of Prey?
That “security guard” is Clean-up Colin, Logan’s best dog. And I assumed the audio equipment came through the service elevator, just like Ken and his team.
I went to look up whether there was some film called Bird of Prey that was not the Harley Quinn movie, but Cathy Yan did, in fact, direct Birds of Prey, the Harley Quinn movie.
Kendall got his lackey to go buy speakers and HE blasted Nirvana. The writers as much TOLD us all that with the shopping list and the speaker boxes- no conspiracy here. That is, however, a plot hole, because they also showed how security was all over them when they entered the building, so there’s no way the lackey later just waltz in and out with a cart full of speakers and sets them up all over the place. It makes for an impactful scene, but lazy writing like that worries me.
It is occurring to me that these folks fly around NYC and the entire planet faster than GOT ravens at this point.