Bleakness makes “Over The Hill With The Swords Of A Thousand Men” one of The Boys’ best
TV Reviews Recap
This post discusses plot points of The Boys episode “Over The Hill With The Swords Of A Thousand Men.”
“Sooner or later, you’ll get your second wind,” sings Billy Joel in 1985’s “You’re Only Human (Second Wind),” the music video of which copied the premise of the holiday classic It’s a Wonderful Life. An angelic Joel stops a young man from jumping off a bridge and taking his own life, reassuring him, “We’re only human/We’re supposed to make mistakes.” It’s understandable that Hughie, for whom nothing has been going right lately, would be drawn to this particular Joel track. To the message of reassurance and hopefulness, and to the idea that if you just keep going—if you just keep trying—everything will work out.
Hughie, however, is a sentimental rube, and the most irritating parts of “Over The Hill With The Swords Of A Thousand Men”—which otherwise is such an engrossing, intense episode that, most importantly, clues us into who Stormfront really is—are when he seems to regress back to the same guy we met in the first season. The season two premiere “The Big Ride” established that Hughie knows how to act on the phone! Use a burner! No incriminating information! Don’t identify yourself! And yet here he is, basically leaving a confessional voicemail for Annie about the crime they just committed against Vought—and then, when she arrives at a location where the Boys are clearly hiding, approaching her in camaraderie and friendship instead of scoping out the situation first. Read the room, Hughie!
Hughie’s amateurish actions this episode seemed less like a natural extension of who his character now is and more like ham-fisted machinations for where the plot needed to go. Homelander needed to start suspecting Annie/Starlight again, so he overhears Hughie’s joyous reaction to her arrival. (Homelander does a lot of lurking and eavesdropping this episode.) Butcher needed to feel protective of Hughie again, to protect his canary, so then he gets in on the eavesdropping action by sneaking up on Homelander, Hughie, and Annie and interrupting Homelander’s threats with that perfectly delivered “Oi, cunt!” A lot of the storm-drain showdown felt forced and clumsily imagined, and that disconnect stands out so starkly because the rest of the episode is so great. The breakneck speed with which Annie’s leaked information about Compound V is then spun into positive press by Vought CEO Edgar; the reveal as to what Stormfront’s motivations really are; that unforgettably enraged, deeply resentful glare that Homelander sends Stormfront’s way at her celebratory press conference; the mirrored glower of hatred on Kimiko’s face as she stares at Stormfront on TV, basking in how the media receives her as an American hero for murdering Kimiko’s brother.
All of those elements feel most in line with The Boys as author Garth Ennis imagined the series: A portrait of shared capitalist and nationalist corruption, entwined together to create a morass of exploitation and abuse. The people in power will never give it up easily, Ennis has always argued, and so it’s clear from the beginning of “Over The Hill With The Swords Of A Thousand Men” that the Boys’ initial victory against Vought will not stand. Sure, the Compound V reveal is dominating news headlines, and stock prices are tanking, and a worried array of Vought lawyers suggest to Edgar that they might need to consider declaring bankruptcy. But Edgar knows the American people, and he knows how they work. He knows how to divert attention, and how to transform perceptions, and when he sees the video footage of Kenji, he sees how to make a mistake into an opportunity. Was his corporate gobbledygook speech to the Seven about trusting each other meant to fail? Did he say “super terrorist” instead of “super villain” specifically to antagonize Homelander into action? I could see reverse psychology being the play here, especially because in many ways, Homelander is quite predictable. He’s been open about considering himself Vought’s top “talent.” He’s most defined by his desperate desire to prove himself. When he says “The world still needs superheroes,” it’s as much a reassurance to the rest of the Seven as to himself.
But even Homelander can be surprised, because did he have any idea about who Stormfront was, or what her ideology is, or the threat she poses to him as the Seven’s leader? I’m guessing nope, nope, and newp! Up until this point, Stormfront has been deeply opinionated, sure. She was very passionate about complaining re: the lack of pockets in women’s clothing, and mocking the obvious artifice of the Seven’s “girl power!” message, and tearing apart the screenwriter of the Dawn Of The Seven script for making all its female characters “unknowable Hitchcock bitches or Michael Bay fuck dolls” (zing!). But could any of that have prepared us for how Stormfront pivots into a hardcore evil racist? Unless you already knew this plot element from the comics, I don’t think so! And actress Aya Cash sells it fully, dropping her Cool Girl façade as soon as she’s on Kenji’s trail. She kills a father and his children, throws another man out a window, and explodes a series of apartments as she climbs up the stairs to the building’s roof; I’m sure the fact that they’re all Black had nothing to do with it. (Readers, that was sarcasm; their race probably had everything to do with it!) And when Stormfront tortures and kills Kenji, snapping his wrists before breaking his neck, her description of him as a “Fucking yellow bastard” is aggressive, pointed, and hate-filled. (Remember how Stormfront is from Portland? Uh, remember what happens in Green Room once the Ain’t Rights get to Portland?)
I’m not sure if Homelander sees or hears Stormfront’s final words to Kenji, but my assumption is that Stormfront’s racism won’t bother him. Still, what is the endgame of the people in Vought who decided Stormfront should replace Translucent on the Seven? What agenda is being served here, and who are its masters? It’s obvious that what Homelander cares more about is someone getting more acclaim and attention than him, and in doing so, Stormfront has placed a target on her back. She doesn’t seem to care—calling Homelander “Gramps,” making deliberate eye contact with him during that press conference and charity event at which she was so praised—and she’s certainly going to help sell Vought’s party line that “Our superheroes are the last line of defense.” She’ll probably even use the term “super terrorist” instead of “super villain,” just to get under Homelander’s skin. At the end of “Over The Hill With The Swords Of A Thousand Men,” the only undamaged things are Stormfront and Vought.
Everyone else, though, is suffering. Homelander threw Ryan off the roof of Becca’s house to prove that his son has superpowers; Ryan’s subsequent defense of his mother activates his super strength and laser-red eyes, but is that really a good thing? The Deep, urged by the Church of the Collective to try and rejoin the Seven by apprehending the Boys, inadvertently causes the gory death of Lucy the whale. (I really do not think the physics of one speedboat being able to burst through a sperm whale check out, but unlike George Costanza, I am not a marine biologist.) Hughie realizes that he might have put Annie in serious danger with his pining. Butcher puts his scrawled list of details about Becca’s house away. And Kimiko, now mourning Kenji, is the angriest we’ve ever seen her. Grief and rage is a dangerous combination. I hope Stormfront is on the receiving end of it.
Stray observations
- I appreciated Annie getting the opportunity to finally tell the Deep that he’s an asshole, an abuser, and has no chance of returning the Seven while she’s on the team, but again, didn’t it seem like Stormfront knew more about that whole situation than she should?
- I REMAIN WORRIED ABOUT ELENA. Homelander’s inquiry to Maeve about her is stressing me out!
- Butcher seems to be rocking a Jim Hopper-like pink Hawaiian shirt on the boat My Big Wet Dream, and his outfit was a reminder that I need more leisurewear in my life.
- Is it weird to anyone else that we haven’t gotten much of Becca’s reactions to seeing Butcher again? Obviously she’s being terrorized by Homelander and trying to protect Ryan, but shouldn’t she feel some type of way about her husband reappearing?
- Black Noir got some great silent moments this episode, from his weeping at the reveal regarding Compound V to his hand on his chest, in an expression of mournful respect, when he passes by the corpse of Lucy the whale. Part of me wants more from Black Noir, and part of me also thinks any character expansion past this point would ruin his sly impact.
- Was the ringing in Hughie’s ears just aftershocks from, you know, being driven through a whale, or is the show suggesting something else going on with him? That scene seemed to have a weird undercurrent, and I’m not sure what it was meant to be.
- “We’re not his partners. We’re his product.” Welcome, Comrade Homelander!
- Of course Ashley would love Lin-Manuel Miranda and Hamilton. Of course she would.
- This week, in product placement: Postmates and Papa John’s, in the same breath!
- A-Train’s comment to Annie that “You don’t fuck with the money” had a real Killing Them Softly vibe, and his continued health issues can’t be good, right?
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So Vought is pushing a bleak “America First/Saving America” agenda… And then this today, from the real world:
“Trump’s decision to eliminate the anti-racism training — featuring “critical race theory” and discussions of “white privilege,” according to the directive — comes amid a nationwide reckoning on racial injustice the president has firmly opposed.
The change was announced in a memo sent to the heads of federal agencies from Russell Vought, director of the Office of Management and Budget. Vought wrote that Trump ordered the sessions canceled after learning federal agencies are spending millions of dollars training employees in “divisive, anti-American propaganda.””I had just finished watching these eps, checked the news Twitters, and saw that.
Jesus, this really is a simulation, isn’t it?
Also, earlier this week, Amazon announced (without any sense of irony) that several toy companies had signed deals to make The Boys collectibles. I really, really find the idea of Funko Pops of Homelander and Stormfront distasteful. It’s sort of like the Django Unchained toys a few years ago, yeah they’re clearly marketed to adults, but there’s some things you should probably just not merchandise a certain way.
Hey, in 2008, Hasbro sold figures of an SS Colonel in a “kids” line of toys (Indiana Jones.)
I think there’s a difference between toys for kids, and ‘toys’ for adults (which are really more like collectibles).
I don’t think we’re going to see a return to the late ‘80s early ‘90s phenomenon of making child-centric products out of adult properties.I grew up then, and can remember action figures and/or Saturday morning cartoons of Robocop, Aliens, Predator, Rambo and Terminator.
There have been lots of Red Skull toys, no? At least in the comics he’s a Nazi and white-supremacist. I think it’s okay if geared for adults.
They are doing a great job of showing how white supremacists co-opt the language of empowerment and change. Stormfront comes off as superficially as a disrupter, here to take down the sexists and stodgy old suits, but she’s the same old white supremacy dressed up in a hip millennial skin.
I find the message of her character kind of odd, actually. What’s the real life analogue of Stormfront? Homelander I get. He is simply a grotesque fascist who fakes it in public.But Stormfront cultivates a highly specific persona: ‘Portland hipster chick’ but lawlz actually is a wanton racist murder. What’s the message there who is the less hyperbolic real life version of that supposed to be?
I think of her in the vein of 4chan alt-right edgelords. They falsely position themselves as “outsiders” that are cooler and smarter than everyone else, and everyone else are lame sheeple and boring corporate suits that don’t get it. But that only masks the fact that their beliefs are actually very conventional and uphold the existing racist power structures. Stormfront’s cool-girl faux-feminism only comes out when it suits her personal interests, the rest of the time she disdains every other woman around her.
That’s like the standard tactic now from the alt-right, exactly.
Homelander is a needy psychopath. Stormfront appears to be a not needy psychopath. The race politics aren’t necessary.
D
The real life analogue for Stormfront would be half Gavin Mcinnes (and early Vice with him) and half portland antifa culture in general. For Mcinnes, a lot of the language he used early in his Vice years, before he revealed himself to be a racist and fascist. The Portland part comes from the fact that portland antifa culture is quite fascist in its own right and it is using terms like antifa to cause damage and attack people not unlike fascist, and in the process giving the left a bad reputation in general.
Correction: antifa are by definition not fascists. It is true that the pacific northwest has been a hotbed of fascist activity for a long time but this has absolutely nothing to do with antifa who, as you might glean from the name, are the ones fighting the fascists. They are not giving the left a bad name except among right wingers and centrists who hate left anyway
Oh, please. You don’t have to go that deep—forget antifa, there are plenty of white supremacists in Oregon, although they’re generally associated with the suburbs and more rural parts as opposed to Portland proper. That’s the whole premise of Green Room—and it’s why there were violent clashes between protesters and counter-protesters the past several months running. The state was originally created as a haven for white flight.
I think the difference between Homelander and Stormfront is between old type of fascist natinalist – in Homelander’s case with the American exceptionalist bent – and the new alt-right racist – with the international Internet fanbase of the just right (read: white) people.
Ben Shapiro with superpowers and a WAP.
White women often leverage the struggle of being a woman in a male dominated world, to mask other problematic ideals they may hold – homophobia, transphobia, racism – as while they don’t support the patriarchy, the white supremacy that does benefits them as well. I don’t know much about the comic but in the current climate I’d liken her to activists that use activism to mask their true intentions – is feminism feminism without intersectionality? Can you truly claim to be an ally without recognizing your power, privilege and leveraging it to help others? Obviously everything is dialed up to 11 in The Boys but the real world example of Stomfront is someone who will wear a pink pussy hat and go to a march on Monday, and call the cops on a black person walking their dog near her on Tuesday.
I really don’t think every character “stands” for something (politically). Really, if you look at it from far up, it is really just a nihilistic and cynical portrayal of superheroes and the myths surrounding them. If people had unlimited power like superheroes, this story is saying this is how they would turn out. I know people have been trying to make the argument that there is more to it, but I think it is just really nihilism..entertaining and hilarious nihilism, but nihilism.
I don’t know if every character specifically stands for something, but it’s more than just a send-up of superheroes. Most of the satirical edge has been less about superheroes and more about the corporatization of everything, turning people into a disposable product and corporate branding.
So far, we’ve seen that The Seven, even though they’re largely awful, are also victims of that machine. Stormfront, on the other hand, is using a different type of messaging. She’s turned herself into a brand that’s ostensibly more honest and direct with her fans and followers by exposing the artifice of the corporate bullshit, but is actually just as manufactured and managed as anything Vought is doing.
I agree that is also a theme, but Stormfront being evil without the others or homelander making her that seems to imply that the “corporate” did not make her that way, she is just that way and in this world (with the obvious exception so far with Starlight) superheroes are pretty much awful people, or become that way over time. Which is I guess a more realistic way of looking at it, since if you are going to deconstruct comic trope that they are all magically all good people and heroes that would be the place to start
That’s true, though I’d argue that the show (not necessarily the comic) isn’t really focused on the comic trope of superheroes, but is using superheroes as a catch-all for all manner of public myth-making. In Season 1 it was all Vought, but with Stormfront, it’s the self-made Instagram/YouTube celebrity that’s just as much a public-facing false image as anything done by Vought, but is a lot craftier in how she’s using a “just telling it like it is” persona to hide that she’s fucking awful.
Stormfront’s a slightly less exaggerated Phyllis Schlafly.
Miss America had more two-handed wrist snaps overall, but we’re still early into this season.
If there is a real life equivalent I’d think some like Cassandra Fairbanks or Laura Loomer
Thor.
While Portland itself is pretty liberal, there’s a pretty robust history of Nazism in the state of Oregon as a whole—which was originally conceptualized as a sort of white refuge state. See Green Room, etc. Also note the clashing groups in current BLM protests.
That’s just most of the alt right now. “Hipster chick who wants to murder minorities for the lulz!” is like the standard young female Neo-nazi archetype.
You literally just described exactly what the rebranded “alt right” is going for when you said: Portland hipster chick’ but lawlz actually is a wanton racist murder.
“But Stormfront cultivates a highly specific persona: ‘Portland hipster chick’ but lawlz actually is a wanton racist murder. What’s the message there who is the less hyperbolic real life version of that supposed to be?”https://www.thecut.com/2016/11/how-the-alt-right-uses-style-as-a-propaganda-tool.html
Tomi Lahren and Kaitlin Bennett fit the bill as real-world analogs.
This mix of fun open cynicism and homicidal racism leaves me a bit perplexed actually. Partly because feminist deconstructions and ethnicism/racialism don’t go together very well (I know that all mixes of positions exist even though they most often come in predictable packages, and blind spots can be unpredictable, but here it goes pretty far in directions structurally quite opposite). Partly because it’s odd to be an open sarcastic loudmouth with no concern about feedback or outer opinions yet not having publicly expressed racist views so far – especially within a multicolored team. And lastly because there’s the risk of that character becoming an actual role model for white nationalists (“yeah, at last they represent us as witty and kickass and just telling the truth in the face of people”).And yeah, the name. “Hello, I’m called Superwaffenhitler, I’m your new champion of democracy, don’t expect any plot twist from my side.”But we’ll see how the character is developed in the next episodes…
It is a little odd that nobody on the show has even commented on her name. Ashley at least should have made an ineffectual protest about it.
The name Stormfront only rings alarm bells if you’re internet savvy or politically aware enough to know about the website and it’s inbred followers. To a great deal of people it’s just a meteorological term or a Billy Joel album title – which is very fitting for obvious reasons
The effects on google search results will be interesting.
Yeah. I dunno what would be worse. People thinking you’re a neo-Nazi or thinking you’re a Billy Joel fan
Well, only one of those can get you elected to the White House.
In-universe, I assume a typical genre blindness or replacement. Like, in other movies, people having never heard of (romero) zombies, or being astonished to find out that draluca was the anagram of dracula all along. After all, we assume that superman and wonder woman don’t exist in that universe’s pop culture…
It’s a parallel universe where that particular website named itself something else.
The term storm front has many definitions.
Well, she does literally “command the lightnings”. That’s pretty good misdirection. If I met a person who could do that called “Stormfront”, the neo-nazi website would be way down on my list of probable inspirations.
Yah, as one who has not read the comic book, Stormfront’s outwardly disparate personalities kinda jarred me. Like, I actually rewound the show abit to make sure I didn’t miss something in one of the previous scenes or something. I mean, sure, we are all legion and not completely defined by any single aspect of ourselves, but…I dunno – it just seems way off, character-wise.Anyway.Still more enjoying the show than not, despite this and other niggles.
I even checked the hilarious chat feed on her phone, during her introduction scene. You’d expect some hints there. There’s just one vaguely ominous “stormfront will free america” at the very end, but I didn’t spot particularly telling usernames. It’s odd that a super-racist online celebrity wouldn’t have more creepy followers, and wouldn’t have alienated the rest. Especially given how fast a tweet can polarize the public. It would be an out-of-character effort to be concealing her views so carefully. Maybe the contradiction will be addressed later.But hey, they’re still comic book villains in a superheroes story, with a stylistic varnish of gritty realism. So, let’s not expect more logic than in a Nolan or Snyder movie…
Why would it be out of character? Her persona is as carefully managed as the rest of The Seven, she’s just the one in control of it, not Vought.
Because her persona seems all about stating her opinions and not caring about what anyone would think of it. So, being super opinionated about “races” and not letting anything slip ever, while being completely -and militantly- without filter about any other matter, seems psychologically unlikely to me.
But that’s the point, her persona of “speaking truth to power” and rejecting the artificiality of Vought’s carefully managed public face is just as carefully crafted and just as false as Homelander’s, she’s just the one doing the crafting. Her whole, “no filter, I just say what’s on my mind” is as full of shit as anything Vought has done with The Seven, and it’s all designed to make her widely popular.
Are we sure Vought doesn’t know exactly who she is? It sounds like they’d examine every detail for their own purposes.
Oh, that’s entirely possible. Her whole schtick probably brings in a new demographic who rejects all of Vought’s more old-school obviously phony media manipulation. I don’t think Vought gives two shits if she’s racist as all hell.
I agree. I’d be very surprised if they didn’t know and if that’s not the reason Vought made her part of the Seven
Yes, it seems like it’s all about that. It’s not hard or unusual to fake a free-spoken “not caring about what anyone would thinks” brand without it being true.
“seems” is the key word here. That’s how she wants it to seem but not necessarily how it is
Actually, I think it’s a pretty fair commentary on how prevalent feminist and antiracist rhetoric has become and how easy it is for people who don’t genuinely believe what they’re saying to say “the right things” to advance in their professions. As far as we know, the whole “casual contempt for authority and willingness to speak truth to power” thing is probably a shtick, a carefully constructed persona meant for public consumption.
Also, even if Stormfront were being sincere, advocating for women has never really been incompatible with blinding racism. See, for example, a lot of early suffragettes.
I’m a bit confused to that too as there’s no real analogue to her. The alt-right is decidedly male dominated and often overlaps the incel community. Sexism is kind of baked into the alt-right. Not that there aren’t members of it who are women, but the people open carrying their semi-automatic guns are not women.Somebody below did mention that how after Trump’s election, the alt-right tried to position themselves as sort of racist hipsters (like that Milo dude) but that’s sort of faded when people realized that being racist in no way, shape, or form makes you cool.
I see that the popular misconception of the alt right being.majority incel losers is making people confused about Stormfront. Sure that’s a part of the alt right but there’s an awful lots of successful people who vote Trump and hate minorities. It’s explodes the just world fallacy so I get that people struggle because it’s seems incongruous but it really isn’t. It’s “hire more women drone operators” irony. Or the IDF’s commitment to LGBT inclusion. Exactly the sort of stuff The Boys has been mocking since the first season.
There’s a difference between the suburban mom who says she’ll vote for Biden but deep down vote for Trump because they’re afraid of black people moving into their suburb and the alt-right. My assumption is that Stormfront is basically an out right, full on racist with a mission statement of upholding white supremacy. That’s a whole different thing.I’m not saying you’re incorrect or that it’s what Stormfront is supposed to be, I’m just curious as to the decision. There’s a lot of clever things about the show (I loved, for instance, the Hans Zimmer throw away line in the discussion about the movie) but it’s really not as clever as it thinks in other aspects. Making Stormfront some sort of trollish, internet, Milo whats-his-face fan, saavy meme warrior would be kind of clever but I’m not sure if this show is clever enough to pull that off. We shall see. Regardless, I’m enjoying the character and the plot line, especailly as Aya Cash is awesome.
I get the distinction there but I’m thinking if that mom had superpowers? She’d be a monster. That seems thematically on point with the show as whole. Now imagine it’s younger suburban woman and that’s very much Stormfront imo. And absolutely agree about Aya Cash she’s brilliant here.
My take on the character is that I know that person. They look fine, cool, one of yours and them BLAM racism that doesn’t even match other things they said or defended. Or themselves. And I spent days trying to understand that when it’s useless. I’ve known a few Stormfronts in my life.
From your comments it sounds like you don’t have much or an understanding of the far right and therefore don’t understand what they’re going for with the character or don’t think there’s any real world analogue to her. That’s perfectly okay. It’s a depressing subject
No, I have a pretty good understanding of the far right and, yes, Laura Loomer IS pretty horrible (I actually thought a bit about Laura Ingraham while thinking about my original post). I guess the best thing I should say is that as we don’t know that much about the character, it’s too early to say who she is or who she’s supposed to represent. If she represents anyone. She could be some sort of major statement about racism and the intertwining of it to capitalism or she could be a comment about the alt-right or she could just be an edgy character created just because somebody thought the idea of a “cool girl” superhero also being super racist is cool. My guess is that it’s just because somebody thought it would be cool I could be reading too much into her character, I could not be. We shall see. But as I said before, I’m completely on board for her and that she’ll be great no matter what because Aya Cash is the best.
As I say above Cassandra Fairbanks and Laura Loomer would be rough analogues, maybe a bit of Ann Coulter too though she’s old and fading from relevanceI’ve seen tons of women in pictures of those rallies
Agree. The two halves of her personality don’t really gel in a logical way or one which has any real world parallels.
I mean, there’s such a thing as people that aren’t racist to their co-workers simply because they’re peers, or because they’ve “made it” and become acceptable. I think it was much more of a thing where she likes to unleash and rage, and is able to exploit her position to get away with it.
I think a timely analogue would be a racist white cop that covers with the fact that he works with black cops.
There have been many female racists depicted in TV/movies, but I don’t think there have been too many in depth depictions of a female character that is a straight up white supremacist, which, given the current state of America, really should be explored.
I think Hughie despite being largely frustrating was allowed a few moments of pure fuck up after yet more guts found themselves all over him for like what the 6th time. I think its a realistic reaction to all the trauma. How many times we watch shows and characters like Hughie who are essentially civilians never react to these high stress situations how a normal person would. I think I just felt for him, his pathetic attempt at punching Butcher showed just how out of his element he is.Stormfront is very much like Homelander but also very different if that makes sense. As angry as he is now I with her I think Stormfront is just like him in ways that could make them bond down the line, for a while at least. She could become his new Maeve, as he seems to go running back to her whenever he is rejected. Constantly finding things to try and latch onto ‘family’ since he killed Stillwell.
In the tradition of good storytelling, Hughie is -essentially – US. We identify with him because we experience so much of the insanity of The Boy’s world through his uninitiated eyes. At least we can be fairly certain that he’ll survive the series.
Yes, remaining inside the guts of a whale carcass completely shellshocked was perfectly absurd.
It looked strangely comfortable too.
It’s public knowledge at this point that it was The Deep who assaulted Starlight – is there any more to Stormfront’s questions than that?
I think what you might have been missing is that Hughie was actually suicidal when he left that message. But what you might also be becoming aware of is that Butcher is going to get a terrible idea soon.I did think we would have the first word of Kimiko’s there at the end as she glowered. But they may have still been debating what she would sound like since the actress sounds like she could be Hughie’s sister but also the Shining Light might not have seen any point of the speaking part of other languages.
Wait. The “reveal” that Stormfront was a racist was supposed to be a reveal????
FFS. It’s in the name. It’s like a “reveal” that a character named “Rollingstone” is a rocker.
The only thing that made me think she even *might* not be racist is that he name is SO spot-on that I was like:”Nawww…they wouldn’t be that obvious…”
I briefly thought she was a mole for the c-suite, always inquiring to the other heroes about who else “hates Vought”
In the group I watched this with, I was the only one who knew about the neo-Nazi connotations of the name so it’s not that obvious a nod. As a friend pointed out it’s also the title of a Billy Joel album.On a similar note Billy is wearing a Hawaiian shirt in the episode which -to some people- is the sign of an obvious alt-right edgelord twat but to others it’s simply the uniform of gay guys and big fat party animals.
I’ve been on the internet long and deep enough to see some shit, but this is the first I’m hearing about a Hawaiian shirt thing. Like, at all.
its a relatively new incel-alt-right-d-bag thing.
Hawaiian shirt as an identifier of people that want a new Civil War, no kidding.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boogaloo_movementIt’s been fairly well publicised which is a pain as I do love a loud tropical shirt. Before that the racist pricks were all into Ben Sherman and Fred Perry polo shirts which annoyingly also make up a fair chunk of my wardrobe. Thankfully I think I’m still safe with the rest of my clothing. It’s mostly all Adidas, Puma and Hugo Boss and I can’t see there being any far-right issues there.
Thankfully I’m not American(sorry, but we do think this from time to time).
Ben Sherman and Fred Perry have been the uniform for skinheads (racist and not) since like the 60s. The Hawaiian shirt stuff is new, but a black Fred Perry with red piping has been the uniform of skinheads (particularly in the UK) for decades. The skins just took what the mods were doing and made it more “street”. Then the racists jumped on it, and the rest is history.
https://www.refinery29.com/en-us/2020/06/9869434/boogaloo-movement-hawaiian-shirt-meaning
Boogaloos. They’re a racist violent group that wear Hawaiian shirts for some reason and want to start a race war.
The Hawaiian shirt thing comes from their ‘cute” term for the civil war they want to instigate, “the Big Luau.” Because they are Boogaloos. I read way too much about this vile crap.
They wear Hawaiian shirts because they refer to the second civil war as the “luau.” Yes, it is that stupid.
I’m not letting the racist fuckwads take away my Hawai’ian shirts!
Yea I just thought it was a really cool superhero name for someone with that powerset
Relax friend. You’re not reading the show right. RELAX.
He’s right, she’s named Stormfront and she’s racist. Why are you patronizingly telling him to relax?
I like the show, but they always go for obvious. So I agree that it wasn’t really much of a shock.
Yeah, I really like the show, but “subtle” isn’t really their style.
I know about the website but her showing storm powers fuzzed up my brain just enough I didn’t get the connection until later.
I don’t think Stormfront the website is as (in)famous as it wishes it was.
Personally, I thought her name was yet ANOTHER Billy Joel reference…
I don’t know the comics but the name Stormfront is pretty obvious. I was thrown for the first few episodes because of the Girl Power vibes. I’m not exactly sure how they’ll tie it all together as the Alt-Right is much more of a male/incel thing but we’ll see.I do like how they made her an Instagram star. Not just because it’s funny and in keeping with the show’s universe but because of the possibility of her using her online persona to radicalize people much in the way the alt-right is currently doing.
Girl power shit is white feminism and basically just a marketing gimmick its perfect for a racist white woman.
There are lots of female fascists
One of the comments on her livestream when she told Homelander she was in the 7 now said “Dude is shook” and I cracked up, not only because of how accurate an assessment of Homelander’s reaction that was, but also because of how accurate a thing it was for someone on an IG livestream to comment, and also also because it’s such a funny thing to say about the world’s most powerful superhero
I’ve never read the comic books but people who had were saying that in the comics Stormfront is a man and is a straight up overt Nazi. In the first two episodes of season 2 of the tv show the character has the same name but is a woman who seemed to be more of a Millennial hipster type. From that vantage point I wasn’t sure exactly where they were going with the character since they were departing so much from the original. I’m not surprised that she turned out to be a vile racist but I wasn’t sure how they were going to work that into the show
I was aware of the website, but assumed it was a coincidence and didn’t bother reading into it much more than that.
I, for one, am hearing about this connection for the first time.
Am I imagining things or did BlackNoir kill a family then go to the child’s bedroom and do a little pantomime with the child’s cuddly toy before exiting?If it happened it was a magnificent bit of absurd surrealism, and I would be grateful if someone could point out the episode (and moment) it occurs. Thank You.
Episode 1, the opening sequence.
Thaaaank You. It is insane and brilliant. I have heard a ‘little bit’ about Blacknoir’s character. I hope he gets an ep or two of his own because he is OUT THERE (kind of reminds me of Helena in “Orphan Blacl”).
I’m having a little trouble with the ongoing Billy Joel theme. Any ideas?
Hughie has loved Billy Joel from the first episode, his final conversation with Robin was about Joel.
I’m a big Joel fan myself, so I get it, lol. I’m very annoyed that Hughie wants to hook up with Starlight. Traditional storytelling tropes suggest that, eventually, she’ll betray him (so he’ll have to kill her, etc.). I hope not, but I don’t want to see them together either. And A-train deserves worse than a heart attack. Do you remember him boasting about Robin’s death? “Dude, I actually swallowed one of her molars!!”). That was sick – in a BAD way.
‘hook up’ is a bit of an understatement, it’s pretty clear that he has very strong feelings for her, maybe to the level that he had for Robin. [Potential Spoilers]If you pay close attention to the trailers, Starlight joins the Boys and is hiding out with them along with her mother, and appears to be training on a disused military base in her ‘civilian’ clothing.
It’s kind of an office fling at this point with both of them being the outsiders of their respective groups and with different moral compasses then the others. So, they’re basically the Jim and Pam of the Boys!
This. Except it would take 3 more seasons of awkward flirting until they actually fuck.
I think this may be Chekov’s boomer rock legend: Billy Joel will show up at some point, inspire the fuck out of Hughie, then ends up with his brains exploded into Hugie’s mouth.
oh god,lol. That last part is just too much.
It’s certainly screaming that Joel is gonna cameo. To immediately be killed? That’s a good bet. To be blown off because other shit is going on? Also a good bet.
As someone from the Tri-State area who was basically raised on non-stop Billy Joel, I finally realized about a decade and a half ago that I now hate him and never want to listen to his music ever again.Watching the recent Boys episodes has shown me that it’s a far more complicated issue. For while claptrap like “Only Human” is truly execrable, “Pressure” still slaps.
Predicting now that Becca’s deal with Homelander is that she’ll play nice with him as parent, and he won’t kill Butcher, thus explaining why Butcher was left alive instead of murdered and explaining why we weren’t shown any emotional response from Becca in seeing her husband she hadn’t seen for years. Either that, or Butcher was just a terrible husband and she’s glad to be away from him.
Predicting now that Becca’s deal with Homelander is that she’ll play nice with him as parent, and he won’t kill Butcher…Wasn’t this explicitly stated in the episode?
Episode 2, but yes. Homelander references it.
Yeah it was the first one, because the second really doesn’t make sense in this story.. I am assuming there is more to be revealed from the finale when Butcher finally saw his wife. But it is overwhelmingly likely that Homelander raped her and when she was pregnant, she made that deal that she would have and raise his baby in exchange for her and Butcher living. However, I do not think Homelander left Butcher alive at the end of last season because of the “deal” as he thinks he can do anything he wants. Instead, I read it as he let him live because the knowledge that she is alive and had his baby was a fate worse than death for Butcher and homelander enjoyed allowing him to live with that.
Amazon is only showing 2 episodes available, how are some getting ep 3 already?
They dropped the first three at once and then it’s weekly from there until the end. If you’re in the US, you should be seeing three available as far as I know. Contact customer support if you’re not and in the US I guess?(I mean, I imagine it’s the same the world over but I don’t know as I don’t have this or any other streaming services and no, I’m not pirating it or watching someone else’s copies pirated or otherwise for anyone else out there who’s listening.)
Thanks, i figured it out. For some reason 3 is not showing, the autopay stops after episdoe two, and then it asks if i want to watch ep2 again. To get ep 3 i had to go into the episodes tab of the show and click it individually.
Prime’s UX sucks ballsac.
Mine did that too! It also did not show any subtitles in scenes where they were needed (I had to change the setting to the one where it describes the action). My Amazon Fire is glitchy!
So Edgar pins the Compound V scandal on Madelyn: “Our focus will be to learn the truth. We are conducting a robust investigation into Compound V. But let me be clear: I had no knowledge whatsoever. We believe it was the work of a small, disaffected group of scientists led by former Vought employee Madelyn Stillwell.” But she was a child when Vought began creating superheroes like Homelander. She couldn’t have been behind this scheme, even if she kept it going when she became vice president of the company.
But she was a child when Vought began creating superheroes like Homelander. She couldn’t have been behind this scheme, even if she kept it going when she became vice president of the company. Except as Giancarlo’s character states, very few people know the truth of Dr Vought’s “experiments”, so to the public the story they’re selling could have conceivably started when Madelyn took a lead position at the company.
Not if ALL heroes (in particular those as old as Homelander and Maeve) were created chemically, as announced in the breaking news reports: “Vought has been administering Compound V to children for decades…” Madelyn was just too young to be responsible for it, whatever story Vought is trying to sell.
As real life has been showing over and over again, enough people are dumb and opinionated enough to not care even if you walked them through the mathematics of it all step by step on a whiteboard right in front of it all.
There’s that. But I hope her actual “innocence” (in this case) becomes a plot point.
Also, now that the world knows that super-powered people are the result of Compound V, how does Vought avoid taking the heat for super-villains/terrorists? Even if they blame Stillwell, it’s still a PR disaster. Arguably an even bigger one than the super-hero reveal, which, by the way, won’t sit well with their fundamentalist Christian fandom.
There is something obviously different about Homelander if you pay close attention to the show. He was the only one that Butcher had no history on, who also never went to the debauchery bar, his parents and upbringing are fake and we know he was raised by scientists. I never read the comics, but is he maybe an alien like Superman? I was always betting that they made compound V from HIM. So I don’t think it matters if Stillwell was not around back then
Thay would be pretty cool. Back in season 1 I assumed the reveal would be that they were extracting compound v from some person (likely a small child). But that may have been me having My Hero Academia on the brain
Had the same thought. that excuse doesn’t hold water.
I hated that twist with Stormfront. I don’t think making the one overtly feminist character into a literal feminazi is as edgy as the writers think it is.
I’m loving the new season, even as Hughie seems to be regressing, but I think Karen Fukuhara’s increased story role and her acting has been the best thing about this season so far. She’s been incredible, and all without speaking (improvised sign language aside).
I’m glad they’re fleshing out Kimiko, because “The Female” was definitely one of the more problematic elements of the (consistently lousy) comic book.
So whats the deal with the cult? That lady clearly had very good intel from their leader for The Deep to know exactly where to go.
I assume the ex CIA lady is a “Scientologist” and set up Butcher. They are trying to get a man in the Seven. Why else have them wait off shore if not to give The Deep an opportunity to get back and owe the church.
I love that final shot (also on top of your post) recreating one of the comic book covers. They did that in season one too.I don’t love that neither MM nor Frenchie seems to care that Butcher only cares about Becca not any of them. But at least for now he listened to MM and saved Hughie. Of course by then it all went to shit already and The Seven where there so I suppose the chances of getting Kenji to CIA were minimal anyway.
We also see that even though we and The Boys knew Kenji was right about the superheroes he was wrong about being able to get his revenge. Both his sister, her friends and us know that there is no chance to survive that. CIA prison was the safer option. All he managed was to take Homelander out for long enough for someone else to kill him.And now we know what the Stormfront deal is. She wants to replace Homelander. Now she the one who took out the bad guy and got the press conference. And just like Homelander she says all the right things in public and is a monster when she can get away with it. Her brand is more racist but only slightly.Everyone was warning Hughie that he puts himself and Annie in too much danger and it almost got them both killed. Annie might’ve been able to blackmail A-Train to not tell but Homelander will not let this go that easily.And any win Annie managed to achieve has already been set back, ironically, by The Boys themselves. Vought was in trouble but now there is another story taking precedence in the news cycle and they have all the excuse they need. What would the world do if they didn’t make the superheroes? Ends clearly justify the means. Public wants to feel safe.
My only hope is that the choice of lying about the rogue group instead of mea culpa will bite them down once it turns out super-terrorists were also made by Compound V. Even though actually was a rogue action by Homelander.
Her brand is more racist but only slightly.I think Homelander is an equal opportunities murderous psychopath. He doesn’t care what color his victims are, they’re all equally ants to him. There’s only one superior race, and it’s comprised uniquely of him, and possibly his son (but that still has to be proven). Then there’s an intermediate “not entirely repellent” race, and that’s Maeve and perhaps Black Noir, and that’s about it.
Of course he doesn’t really care about anyone but himself so he is not particularly picky about his victims however he built his persona around American exceptionalism and being national symbol. It’s a big part of his identity – see how he insist on “Saving America” instead of “Saving the World” even though whole focus group prefers the second one. He’s American nationalist and it comes with catering to all the American biases. It’s not an accident that all the “supervillains” he helps to create are from non-white countries. His not overtly racist like Stormfront but believing he is not racist is like believing Trump when he says he doesn’t have racist bone in his body. Sure he believes he doesn’t. It’s just that there are shithole countries and some people are more American than others.Of course in Homelander’s case there is also another race superior to all of them. Those like him who are gods. But he sees himself as the king of gods and even any of the other gods will be punished if they don’t follow his orders.
I don’t think his ‘Murica rhetoric is something he actually believes in, it’s just something he uses to exploit what he knows most of the little ants believe. He feels smart doing it, but he’s not proud of his cape because it’s the American flag, he’s proud of having had that idea to strengthen his grip on the masses. Same way he doesn’t believe in any God other than himself, and yet he uses Christian propaganda for his manipulations.After all, this kind of belief stems from education and cultural milieu, and he had none of the above, he was raised in a laboratory, aseptically.
Sorry, this got lost in my other replies so I only just noticed it.It’s true Homelander was raised in a lab but it doesn’t mean he has no belief system. No matter how devoid of affection his upbringing was the belief systems of those around him still seeped in. They always do. And in his case those are the beliefs of those running Vought. He identified with company and it goals and it’s image of American company delivering American prosperity to the American masses.
But he also inherited it’s biases. After all Vought was created by Nazi and the people who run supes division were all heavily into eugenics. Of course, the main thing is mostly considering all people as just something to be manipulated and used for personal gain. But it’s also the biases that lead the company to approach almost exclusively white families to create superbabies. These are the same biases that made him pick non-white foreigners for his supervillain plan.
It’s no accident that there are paintings of him with Confederate flag for cape.
The cover I think you were referring to (good catch!)…
Anyone else wonder why Kenji didn’t try to use his powers more in the fight with Stormfront? It was mostly running away until they got in close and Stormfront was able to grab him.
why Kenji didn’t try to use his powers more in the fight with Stormfront?Because the script said he had to die, duh.
Yeah, that was noticeable. Should have been more of a give and take.
She made short work of Kimiko as well. Either Kimiko and Kenji didn’t try, or there’s more to Stormfront’s powers than sparkly hands.Or just bad writing.
She did snap Kenji’s wrists with a flick of hers, so she’s obviously got some degree of super-strength. Plus the fact that she blows up most of the floor of an apartment building that she’s walking through suggests that she’s also got some sort of super toughness/durability. Clearly not at the level of Homelander, and probably not at the level of Queen Maeve (who we see remain motionless while an armored truck smashes itself to pieces around her as though she were a solid steel post embedded in concrete.)
Based on what she did, she has some super strength and invulnerability as well. She snapped Keniji’s hands like they were chicken bones.
“Based on what she did, she has some super strength and invulnerability as well”I seems like everyone in the Seven has that tbh. I was surprised when Translucent turned out to be invulnerable and then when we learned Annie can shrug off bullets. I’m guessing those are minimum requirements for admission.
She clearly has super strength and can take a licking. Makes sense she’d have more than just dark side force lightning fingers if she’s going to be a foil to Homelander.
The plot gets what the plot wants.
The show is surprisingly skint on actual superhero duke outs. You mostly have supers appearing, using their powers on civilians in dramatic/gory fashion, then taking off. For all the shocks, it’s a surprisingly blandly staged show. You rarely get an actual hero to hero slugfest.The show seems to have a decent budget, but fight choreography doesn’t seem to be a huge priority.
I think it definitely shows – look at how much effort has been put into the costumes, sets and locations, it blows the CW’s Arrowverse shows out of the water in overall “look and feel” quality, but doesn’t hold a candle to their fight choreography.But then that’s kind of the point of the series – it’s not really about superheroes doing heroic things, because our protagonists wouldn’t stand a chance against most of the Seven. The show is character-driven, not really an action show.
Quick correction: Green Room doesn’t take place in Portland. It takes place in a nebulous area much nearer the coast of Oregon. Kind of a big difference in local culture and scenery.
I’m about 99.9% certain that title is a reference to this:
The main thing I got from the Stornfront reveal that she is very evil was this is really the first female character who joined the male heroes as really being intentionally callously evil. Starlight is still the “good” one (but getting very cynical) and Maeve’s sin is really in her passivity to the guy member’s horrible-ness. In the first season, I thought they were saying something that the women were either good or could be redeemed while the men could not..but with Stormfront, this basically shoots down that theme for me. She is basically a female Homelander
The lack of evil female superheroes in this show about evil superheroes felt kind of patronizing to me, so I’m glad there’s one.
Stormfront…Damn, I didn’t even catch it. Yeah. Yea, that makes sense…
Black Noir got some great silent moments this episode, from his weeping
at the reveal regarding Compound V to his hand on his chest, in an
expression of mournful respect, when he passes by the corpse of Lucy the
whale
Yea, I really liked both those moments. I
want more, but don’t give me more. They are using him exactly the right
amount, I’d say.
I also really liked M.M. sitting with Hughie in the whale. Solidarity.
Speaking
of that, Homelander’s speech to the team was also, actually pretty
good? He may be an asshole, but he’s got a point about it not mattering
where they came from, and the good they do. I know he puts on an act
most of the time, but he seemed sincere here. This makes me conflicted.
What to make of positive messages from toxic sources…
Yeah it was weird. Homelander actually seemed sympathetic for a minute and it made it seem like Gus Fring is the real villain. His logic about their respective positions at Vought made a lot of sense
It was a good speech in that it gave Homelander a little bit of shading.But at the same time, we know that the heroes of the Seven actually don’t do one whit of “good” out in the world whatsoever.And we also know that Homelander has nothing but contempt for people he perceives as beneath him (which is everyone on the planet), but at least the rest of the Seven is slightly less beneath him than everyone else, so they are as close as he has to equals/friends/family, etc.And we also know Homelander really doesn’t like being told what to do.So, while it was *almost* an inspirational speech, it’s only if we really know nothing at all about who Homelander really is.
Any excuse to post Skyclad.
Still, what is the endgame of the people in Vought who decided Stormfront should replace Translucent on the Seven? What agenda is being served here, and who are its masters?I think that the main point of Edgar bringing in Stormfront is that, theoretically, she’s supposed to be in Homelander’s power class (the comics version was based on both Thor and Captain Marvel (Shazam)), and that she’s supposed to act as a check to Homelander deciding that he’s the real boss; Vought made him, and they can make more like him.
that makes some sense considering how unconcerned Gus Fring was whenever Homelander threatened him. From a thematic standpoint, there’s an argument to be made that the corporate powers that be use racism and the fueling of it in order to keep their power by distracting everyone else
I figured Fring has some sort of secret ‘dead switch’, a kryptonite of sorts that he can employ in case of emergency.It would explain why he’s so cocky and unafraid of them. It would also explain how a giant corp like Vought is fine with so much of its revenues and growth potential tied to a group of human beings who have the power to do something extremely damaging at any time.
Who needs kryptonite when he can just send in Mike Ehrmantraut?
lol touché
I was thinking he’s a supe himself. (I know I’m months behind but no spoilers, please!)
What happened to Homelander’s super hearing? I thought he could hear a heartbeat from miles away, but people are now quite cavalier about talking when he’s in the vicinity.
Yeah and he hears people heart rates but he can’t tell A Train is having a heart attack?
Wonder if they’ll do the twist in the comics for Black Noir because I just don’t see it working. It worked in the comics because the comics was way sicker than the show, and it was just the kind of goofy-but-disgusting shocker that passes in the comics. But the show is decidedly much more measured than that.
Plus, if they had the twist in mind, some of the things Black Noir does, like weeping in the corridor, would make no sense at all.
My own stray thoughts:1. This is already better than the comics, just in season 2.
2. Anthony Starr low-key deserves some Emmy buzz. Every time he’s on screen I just get…nervous. When he was patting/holding Maeve’s hand I kept expecting him to just tear it off or something. But he didn’t! He didn’t, but you can tell at any given moment he’s thinking it. He knows he can do it. He knows he can do anything and he’s just deciding NOT to right now.3. It was actually kinda cool to see The Deep do stuff, if only for a brief moment? Like you could tell if he had really wanted to, The Boys would be dead. He was in his element and he had his game-face on and we hadn’t seen that from The Deep in a while, if ever.
Season 2 is better than Season 1 and the show is now MUUUUCH better than the comics.
I remember reading and enjoying the comics but the more I think back on them the more I actually…didn’t care for them. There were some good moments and ideas but then there was that entire fucking arc that was just Hughie in that comic shop listening to the horny old dude talk about old supes or something. And all the exposition, just ungodly amounts of exposition.
“Hughie’s amateurish actions this episode seemed less like a natural extension of who his character now is and more like ham-fisted machinations for where the plot needed to go.”I bought it. It wasn’t a regression to his older self, he knows better now, it’s just that he was losing his shit and reaching for a lifeline. He knows better but he wasn’t thinking with that side of himself. Also, it’s pretty clear that he didn’t give a shit about surviving at that point. His call to Annie was basically a suicide note. So he reached for the lifeline and if it failed he would be dead. Win-win.
Anybody know how to manually get Prime to show English subtitles during the Japanese and sign-language dialog scenes? I watched all of that thinking I was just supposed to figure out what they were saying through body language, but I’m gathering that it was translated for most viewers given the detail in recaps I’m seeing.
I just have subtitles on all the time.
I fucking hate Hughie.
This show is amazing
How’d The Deep know to go to the Atlantic Ocean & how’d he get there
so fast from Ohio? (The No-Prize answer is that The Church of The
Collective has clairvoyants & teleporters who helped.)
Hughie exhausted all his prodigy moments. He’s recklessly naive about
not blowing Starlight’s cover as their mole. In fact he’s mostly a
liability.