100 hours in, Elden Ring is a beautiful, ugly masterpiece
It’s like someone asked, “Hey, what if Skyrim was actually good?”
Games Features Elden Ring
Elden Ring has been out for nearly two weeks now—or, if you’ve been actively following the discourse surrounding From Software’s new spin on the Dark Souls formula on Twitter, enough time for your body to do that “turn to dust” thing that happens to the Old Bad White Guy from Last Crusade when he drinks from the wrong cup, about five times over.
Which is to say that the conversation surrounding the game has been, let’s say, fractious. Everyone—games journalists, veteran Souls players, newcomers to the franchise, and, perhaps most foolhardily, other game developers—have all begun trying to cram Twitter’s inexhaustible maw with takes on what From has accomplished here, and the deforming effect it’s had on the gaming landscape.
The arguments have ranged from the familiar (Souls games are comfortable teaching players by killing them; they also lack a host of critical accessibility options; the intersection between those two points could power a flame war strong enough to keep us all warm and toasty for years) to the outright petty (deep, fulminating anger at not being able to close your in-game map with the same button that opens it, rage at a lack of quest log to keep track of its deliberately inscrutable character stories and questlines). Many of these arguments stem, though, from the single thing that ensures that Elden Ring will dominate gaming conversations for the rest of 2022, and possibly until we’re all dead and buried in a haunted tomb: a dedicated indifference to following established gaming “best practices.”
Because while Elden Ring scrupulously follows many of the guidelines From has established for itself across a decade of Souls games—most notably in the rhythms of its combat, which rely on observation and planning as much as twitch-y thumbs, and in the various semi-scrutable systems it uses to guide players through its big, weird worlds—it rejects many more conventional ideas about what makes for “good” or “fun” gameplay. (Which is just another way the game parallels Nintendo’s Zelda: Breath Of The Wild, along with the open-world expansion of an established dungeon-crawling franchise, and an eager willingness to shove whatever Horizon game has just come out into a locker so it can suck up all the critical oxygen in the room.)
It would be wrong to call Elden Ring uncompromising—it compromises in ways both large and small, overt and subtle. (The addition of summonable monsters to take the edge off encounters is genius, from both a storytelling and gameplay perspective.) But it does so with a confidence that many modern “map games” decidedly lack, and which can seem off-putting on first blush. It’s difficult to imagine another a more focus-group-friendly developer hiding huge levels, highly hyped boss battles, and universe-establishing lore behind the sorts of hoops Elden Ring expects you to jump through as a matter of course. It’s unthinkable to imagine anyone pulling the perverse shit these devs do with traps and deliberately aimed jokes/cruelties. But it all tracks: A game that’s all about kicking over rocks and diving down the rabbit holes you find there wouldn’t work if you’re following a trail of breadcrumbs to get to them. (After all, the rabbits would eat the crumbs! This metaphor has become confused.)
On a personal level, my experiences with the game have vacillated periodically between overawed, and overwhelmed. When I signed off on my review of the game (posted just six days after codes were distributed to reviewers) I did so with a seemingly massive 40 hours of galloping across The Lands Between under my fashionable plate armor belt. I stand by that review—any critical perspective that says you can’t review the first two full days of your time with a game is basically discounting the importance of the moment-to-moment (to moment, to moment…) experience. But as my play clock now edges toward 100 hours—with the end in sight, but only in a very “Well, how the fuck am I supposed to get over there?” sort of way—I find myself jumping between exhausted and elated. There’s just so much here. It’s like someone asked, “Hey, what if Skyrim was actually good?”
Which is a cheap shot, but I sort of mean it: What if someone took one of these massive, bloated open worlds, filled as they are with with procedurally generated, algorithm-shat content, and instead filled it with authored, beautiful strangeness? Filled it with wonder and secrets, where finding a single hidden passage can open whole new vistas to explore? Filled it with strange, sad little stories, that come to dark and twisted ends? (Ah, my poor Irina/Hyetta; we’ll always have the time you puked because I told you that you were eating insane people’s eyeballs, instead of grapes.) It’s ugly and messy and there’s so goddamn much of it that just thinking about the game’s map—which, cunningly, expands and expands and expands from an initial manageable presentation as you push further at its edges—can leave me feeling bone tired. But I keep coming back to it, because it rewards my obsession with its beautiful ugliness—not with a leveled bow, or a few extra experience points. But with a deeper glimpse at its sickly gorgeous world.
You may bounce off of Elden Ring. If so, you probably already have. (God knows I bounced off Dark Souls, the first time I took the wrong path out of its opening level and was murdered by the invincible ghosts lurking in the terrifying New Londo ruins.) But here’s my official verdict, 1/100th of the way through putting in my 10,000 Gladwell hours with the game: If it was worth 20 hours of your time, it’ll be worth 40; if it’s worth 40, it’ll keep you hooked through 100. It is a game that defies neutrality: You either spit it out, or let it consume you like just another delicious, juicy “grape” sliding down its throat. It is, to put none too fine a point on it, a masterpiece, and where it occasionally missteps, it does so in the confident, idiosyncratic way that renders its flaws bold instead of foolish.
Which is all to say, as my final formal word on the topic, and with 100 hours of my actual human life gladly given over to it: Praise the Elden Ring.
178 Comments
I’m sure this game is very good. But is it FUN? That’s the real question. I usually prefer easy mode, but I can put up with a difficult game if I’m actually enjoying myself. This feels to me like a game that takes itself very seriously.
If you like the franchise, absolutely. It’s a joy creeping around each corner of a frightening cave, or nimbly evading the attacks of a group of enemies to take them down one by one with precise strikes of whatever stylized fantasy weapon you’re going with at the moment. It can also be terribly funny when some awful set of circumstances all line up correctly to obliterate you.
I’ve never played any of these games. They struck me as being very much Not My Thing. This is the first one that I’ve even considered playing. I just worry it’s more darkness and frustration than I like from a game.
That thing about the map button worries me. I’m pretty forgetful at the best of times and when the controls aren’t intuitive I find it hard to come back to a game and re-learn them each ruddy time.
I’ve never played any of these games. They struck me as being very much Not My Thing. This is the first one that I’ve even considered playing. I just worry it’s more darkness and frustration than I like from a game.I was in the same boat as I haven’t played any of the games but my son wanted to play it (he’s played the other FS games) so we picked it up. I’m about 15-20 hours in and if I’m honest, I’m not having a good time. I’m still playing hoping it’ll grow on me but I’m really not enjoying it much so not sure how long I’ll stick with it. My son however loves it. If you try it, hope you like it.
Also FWIW, I’m 49 and the idea of putting in 100+ hours (realistically a lot more unless I get a lot better at it) into a game is pretty intimidating since I just don’t have that kind of time. It’ll take me like 8 months to get through it.It’s just not my type of game I don’t think. It’s not even the combat (yes it’s hard but I expected that), it’s just that I have a whole host of issues with it (keep in mind these are only my opinions): The dialog is painful, the AI is dumb at least from what I’ve ran into and it’s just all patterns or running straight at you and it’s only hard because the damage they deal is so brutal and the timing windows to parry/roll/attack are so small/precise. If you can sneak up behind someone you can literally just walk into their back and they frequently won’t even know you’re there. The environments aren’t very interactive (for example, you just phase through grass or bushes). I know people love it doesn’t hand hold you, but I have seemingly 500 things in my inventory with all stupid names and almost no idea what anything does without scrolling through each one endlessly to read about it and figure out how/if/when to use it. And while this isn’t unique to this game, the inventory/equipment/skill tree/crafting/leveling up system is just way more than I typically want in a game. I know it creates a game where you can really customize how you want to play and approach it (as well as replayability with different builds) but for me personally, it’s just too much. While I get satisfaction when (finally) beating a boss, I just don’t have fun dying 50+ times before managing to.
Just not really my type of game. On the flip side, I’ve switched back and forth between it and Forbidden West, which seems to be more my style.
It’s my first From game as well and I gotta say it fuckin rules. It’s a denser, more difficult Skyrim. But the increased difficulty rarely feels insurmountable, there’s always an angle, or an opportunity to escape.
Its almost exactly like Dark Souls in terms of combat, the difference being that you have to travel places to get to the dungeons. And supposedly there is a story, but I have really yet to find anything engrossing of a story 3 hours in to the game. It may be one of those “subtle story” games where you actually have to look for the narrative, and personally I can’t be bothered with that chore.
Graphics/Artwork are beautiful though.I, too, am not a fan of Dark Souls-type games, but I was hoping this would be different.
If you’ve held out this long, don’t crack now. I did, I never played any of them either and was always fine with that, but I got sucked into the George RR Martin hype, and all the articles about how this was the one to try. Huge mistake on my part. These games are for a very specific person and if you think you aren’t that person you are probably right.
I was very sceptical about them, presuming they weren’t my thing. But something about Bloodborne’s art direction made me give it a go and I haven’t looked back with the Souls games. I feel no shame in switching to easy on some games but for some undefinable reason I enjoy the challenge here and do feel a weird sense of accomplishment.I don’t think the games themselves take themselves seriously (I’d argue their tongue is firmly in cheek) but there is definitely that vibe amongst some of the fan base but as always they can be ignored.
I had never played a Souls game before. Eventually I tried Bloodborne, and I gave up pretty quickly. I figured these games are simply not for me. But I’ve tried Elden Ring and I am having the time of my life. I found the difficulty at the beginning challenging and exhilarating all at the same time. Given the open world, it’s easier to avoid danger and stick with where you feel safe. After about 5-6 hours or getting the hang of it, I did get kind of “stuck”, not knowing what to do next. I watched a quick YouTube video on “what to do first in Elden Ring” and since then I’ve put in about 25 hours and I’m having a ball. The punishing aspect is perfectly balanced. I spend big chunks of time exploring and evolving my character, and then when I’m feeling confident I’ll pick on a big boss and spend some time trying to win and get that big reward. Often on the 6th or 7th try I will triumph and it’s brilliant.
See, for me, it’s incredibly stressful to creep around the corner of every cave. I hate being scared! I find it more stressful than fun so the Souls games never appealed to me. I like watching people play them though.
Do games have to be fun to be good? No, I’m being serious. Hear me out. Video games are indisputably an art form, and Elden Ring is a work of art. Does art have to be fun to be good? Obviously not. It can be disturbing, depressing, frustrating, maddening, but still great. The same is true for video games. They don’t have to be fun, they just have to be engaging. They have to keep you coming back. They have to work their way into your brain and give you an experience you’ve never had before. That’s what makes for great video games. So the question isn’t whether you’re enjoying yourself, it’s whether you want to keep playing.
In my opinion, yes, a game absolutely has to be fun to be good. Other people may disagree. And that’s fine!But to me, the difference between a video game and other art is the interactive aspect. I’m not just observing the art; I’m actively engaging with it. I can watch a movie that is dark and disturbing and can be good, or even great, without being fun. And that’s fine. But with a game, I can’t enjoy it on the same level, because I’m taking an active role instead of a passive one.
Then don’t play this game.
To play devil’s advocate: I concur that what makes a video game different than other art is the interactive aspect, but would disagree that the interactive bit *has* to be mechanically enjoyable (a rough definition of ‘fun’, by which I mean like the joy of bouncing around in Mario). I think gaming’s unique element often comes across clearest when pushing against the expectation of raw ‘enjoyability’ — instances where the interaction is decidedly unfun or even uncomfortable, like when you the player as Naked Snake have to press the button to shoot Boss, or your Jeep breaks down or your gun jams in Far Cry 2. I enjoy horror but wouldn’t call the feeling of playing Amnesia: the Dark Descent ‘fun’ exactly, or hell even managing a long campaign in X-Com or the Banner Saga. Desperately staving off defeat while your supplies are dwindling and the cost of winning might’ve been too high in troops lost imparts the draining attrition the characters are meant to feel, and the investment and stakes of the narrative become more immersive because of that.
With the obvious caveat that I know full well that this is subjective and everyone’s mileage will vary, that’s not too far off my take.I enjoy video games. I enjoy challenging video games. However, for me, when they cross the (again, subjective) line from “challenging” to “frustration porn” then I nope out.But lots of people enjoy that kind of gameplay because the line isn’t in the same place for them, and more power to ‘em!
Just to be clear, like: it’s a fun video game. If you enjoy open-world action RPGs, then hey, this is a really good one! It’s the first Souls-y game I’ve played and I’ve sunk like 40ish hours so far. The boss fights are tough, you die a lot, but it’s not going to give you a game over screen. If what you’ve seen of the lore and gameplay seems like it might be fun to you, it probably will be.
I think asking whether a game has to be fun to be good is somewhat pedantic in this case. The game is absolutely FUN. It is ALSO “disturbing, depressing, frustrating, and maddening” at times. These qualities are far from mutually exclusive, especially in this case. Your personal tolerance for that list of things may take away from your perceived fun, and that’s gonna be the deciding factor. Some people have a high tolerance, and the frustration will only serve to build and culminate in joyful catharsis and the fulfillment of accomplishment when they overcome each challenge. This is very much a game that rewards and caters to that mentality. BUT the game also gives people who have lower tolerances an “out” in the form of overworld exploration, over-leveling, summoning NPC helpers, and summoning other players. This is a game that punishes the lax and unobservant, and handsomely rewards the patient and inquisitive. Once you understand what the game asks of you and it clicks you are rewarded with an experience unlike anything else the gaming sphere has to offer, the wonder of finding untold secrets, and the elation of surpassing your own perceived limits.
I super appreciate the way you decided to say this, because I feel this way, too.
Yep, if a game isn’t fun it isn’t good.“So the question isn’t whether you’re enjoying yourself, it’s whether you want to keep playing.”If I’m not enjoying myself I’m not going to keep playing.
It is fun like weight lifting or running is fun. If you like challenging yourself and enjoy the fruits of your labor…you will probably like these games.
If you play games to turn your brain off and push buttons, these games are probably not your definition of a fun evening. (And no judgement, I have been playing FF7 Remake on the side for more chill gaming sessions. I can’t be tense all the time…)
Yeah, weight lifting and running have never been things I’ve considered ‘fun’…took an interesting strength training class in college that taught me a lot about the mechanics of weight lifting and how the body actually uses energy, but after months of lifting with no noticeable change I gave up because it’s not in any way fun or entertaining, it’s extremely boring. I play games to have fun, if the game is challenging and fun I’m all for it, but these games are challenging and frustrating, so they’re not for me.I feel like you and I may have different definitions of ‘fruits of your labor’…
“Challenging and frustrating” games veer off into “grind” territory for me. Not my jam.
One could argue that unless there’s money involved, wanting to do something you don’t enjoy is a pretty harrowing idea.
I don’t disagree with you, but A. you have to have the attitude where you’re ok with being frustrated (which I’m using Elden Ring to teach myself), and B. you have to be willing to put the time in, which just isn’t an option for a lot of players. I gave Bloodborne a solid try, but couldn’t get past Gascoigne and didn’t have the patience or inclination to invest the time necessary to beat him. Elden Ring gives you FAR more options to get good, but it still took time for me to get to the point where the game became engaging enough that I can’t wait for work to be over so I can pick up the sticks again
“So the question isn’t whether you’re enjoying yourself, it’s whether you want to keep playing.”Personally if I’m not enjoying myself I stop playing. This sorta mindset may work for From Sofware games but it’s also the mindset that breeds free to play, loot Box, Fomo crap games. My son had this realization with Fornite recently. He was going on every week to do the objectives to unlock whatever and he realized it felt like a chore and not fun. I told him the moment a game feels like work it’s time to stop
I honestly don’t understand why FromSoft games get a pass on stuff like this, it’s the same thing that gets other games raked over the coals (WoW, overloaded Ubisoft games, bad F2P games, etc) constantly by Journalists and Gamers.
More than interactivity, video games (especially designs like this one) are unique for their size. A single work of painting, sculpture, film, music, or literature doesn’t typically demand dozens of hours of a person’s time. In exchange for that level of investment, a person should absolutely be enjoying themselves, otherwise it invites obvious questions about how they choose to spend their time. The trouble with a question like “is it fun” is assuming fun to be a universal thing. It’s a subjective experience. I would rather drive a nail into my foot than play football, but some people consider it fun – go figure.
I don’t think the “video games take longer than other art forms” distinction quite works. Reading Dostoyevsky’s “The Brothers Karamazov,” an 800-page novel, isn’t fun, but once you get into it, it’s totally engaging and you can’t put it down. There are moments of humor, lightness, and “fun,” but fun is not the overall feeling you get from it.When I play a video game, I don’t want to have fun. I want a unique experience that I’ve never had before.New topic: Is Elden Ring the Brothers Karamazov of video games? Discuss.
I heard somebody say once that a game has to be either fun, or interesting. Ideally both, I think, for most audiences. But it can just do one or the other and still be perfectly good for some audiences.
I’d hardly call Mad Men a fun show (though there are certainly moments). And I don’t usually feel like I’m enjoying myself when I go for a run. But both are activities that I’m glad I took part in and got something out of.
It may be splitting hairs, or it may be straight-up contradictory. But I’d argue that fun isn’t the same thing as entertaining.
With any hobby, there’s a point where you stop describing things as fun, and start describing them as interesting. The attempt at something new becomes more important than a good result. There’s the classic thing that critics say “I’d rather watch a spectacular failure than a mediocre success.” It’s no longer about whether the thing is good. It’s about whether it’s original.
I would argue YES the have to be fun. That said what’s fun about a particular game or genre differs. IT can be really difficult and still be fun. Take Bloodborne, the only “Souls” game I have played. I died probably half a dozen times on the FIRST enemy, I continued on for a couple hours and got better at the combat, but it wasn’t very fun to me. On the flipside another series known for being brutally difficult is Bayonetta, I freaking LOVED that game and found the combat much more engaging, again to me, and even though it’s difficulty is on par, IMO, with the Souls series it was fun to play. There is one fight where your fighting 2 mini bosses on an active highway, my roomy and I probably died 50 times on that one fight but even though it was brutal it was still fun. And to heap more praise on the game, LOL, this is a game where the boss you fight at the end of one level becomes a REGULAR enemy the rest of the game. It’s like after the first level the rest of the game is constant boss fights lol.
As someone who tried DS1 and DS3 and gave up in frustration after about 30 mins of each I can say Elden Ring is very very fun and the learning curve while incredibly steep seems to be easier than the DS games I played. I’m level 30 now after about 25 hours and just got to the first “required” boss my tips are dfinitely pick a starting build that has a good shield and armor and don’t feel ashamed to farm runes in easy spots early on so you can level up quickly. Also don’t kill Patches if you find him.
“Also don’t kill Patches if you find him.”Fake News. KILL EVERYTHING. Including the vendors!Well, thats not entirely true. You can’t kill that giant turtle, though it does get mildly annoyed if you attack it.
Why not? He gifts a Spear +7, Leather Armor, and you can take his bell bearing to the twin husks in Roundtable Hold to access his merchant items. A Spear +7 is a precious early on.
*spoilers I guess*If you start to fight him then spare him half way through when he asks, you can visit him again and buy an item called Margit’s Shackle that temporarily binds Margit to the ground stopping his attacks it also works on some other bosses too.Edit – hang on the ball bearing means all his items you can buy from him if you spare him you can instead buy from the merchant in the roundtable? Damn!
Yeah, the merchants are pretty expendable in this game. It seems as if you can eradicate the lot and buy everything from one shop.
I say: yes. It is fun. My first Souls game was Demons Souls for PS5. I almost quit because I felt like I was making ni progress. Hitting my head against the same 2 or 3 levels for hours. Eventually I made progress and ended up binging the game till I finished. There’s an addictive quality there.Elden Ring is a hard game. BUT unlike Demons Souls – or even Dark Souls – it’s a huge open world. Stuck on an rea? No matter you can decompress and explore. Maybe level up by finding caves or attacking smaller groups roaming etc.
And the co-op is there to really help. Having trouble? Summon a spirit friend to help take some of the aggro off that tricky boss. Or summon up to 2 real life players to help you crush that tricky segment – typically they’ll have beaten it already and will help you clinch.They’re hard but it’s definitely the most approachable. They key is: you can always run away and come back later. You can always call upon help.
Is reading War and Peace fun? Is watching Schindler’s List fun?
In fairness, if Schindler’s List we’re 100 hours long it would be a much harder sell.
True, but the analogy between Games Vs Movies and “difficulty” isn’t subject matter but ability/knowledge. You can read Blood Meridian in half a day but simply reading each word over a number of hours Vs engaging with the book is a vast difference. Lots of art isn’t difficult because of what is it about but the “how” and “why” it’s about it. This game feels like that type of difficulty and that is what makes for innovative art imo.
I bounced waaaaaay the fuck off Bloodborne, haven’t played any of the other Soulskiro games, but picked up Elden Ring since it was being lauded as something far more accessible. If you haven’t played any of these games, it might take you a while to regard it as “fun.” I’m probably 6-10 hrs in (time doesn’t exist) and only now believe that I’m having fun with the game.My character is sufficiently leveled that I can use good items, I’ve figured out my own personal gaming cadence with these games (I definitely was not leveling up enough early on, and I hadn’t figured out the attacking tells of enemies); and I’ve unlocked enough fast travel nodes that I can zip around the map and find something new to explore if I’m frustrated with my current pathI think some grinding is mandatory for new players. Get your abilities up, read a TON of FAQs/guides, summon often, get some good weapons/armor, upgrade those items, and pay particular attention to enemies and when you can dodge vs when you can block (if you’re a shield build). Maybe start off with a magic/archery build at first so you can get comfortable with enemy patterns.Last night I soloed a giant for the first time (no summons!), took out two invading NPCs for really good items (one of which is causing me to rethink my entire build), and have three areas in mind that I want to explore. After roughly 5 days of playing it just for the sake of playing it, I now desperately want to pick the game back up. If that’s too much of an investment for you, I absolutely get it (I’m almost 40 with no kids, so I have time but not that much). But the game is rewarding in really subtle and meaningful ways, and provides a wealth of options to get your skills up so you feel comfortable fighting certain bosses
Yes, it can be punishing. Yes, it is fun. It’s both.
Like sex with a hippo!
This person gets it.
I find it really fun but you have to learn to take failure and sometimes even a loss of progress in stride… I can’t imagine getting this far if I got frustrated every time a boss one-shot me lmao… It does lean harder in the player’s favour than their other games, ESPECIALLY Sekiro… Whereas in Sekiro you literally had no choice but to get better at a very specific playstyle, at least in Elden Ring you have like 5 or 6 different ways to approach any situation and one of those ways is always “go somewhere else and come back when you’re stronger”. I like the sense of exploration, I like the way the world and dungeons are designed (especially the big legacy dungeons, which I’ve seen four and a bit of so far and are all great), the combat is fun if you like Souls combat which rewards patience and punishes greed more than most action titles, it has really great options for building your character and a pretty generous respec option you can unlock eventually… The UX isn’t super intuitive and there’s some technical issues (I’m playing on PS4 and have noticed the occasional framerate drop, once I tried to summon my horse and he just ran away and left me to die stuck in the air, and once the game started slowing down a bunch and I had to quit out and restart- I’ve heard it’s worse on PC) but imo it is super fun. Although… Mind you I’ve probably put like 500 hours into all the Dark Souls games and Bloodborne and Sekiro combined so i’m probably the last person to answer whether it’d be fun or approachable for a newcomer so take this with a grain of salt lol
It’s clear the reviewer had fun! What does fun mean to you?
“Fun” is such a vague and meaningless descriptor of videogames, and art in general. It’s ridiculously personal, much more so than humor. If you tried to describe what makes a fun game, you would just be listing things in videogames that you personally like.For some, Flight Simulator is so fun that people spend thousands on setups to play it, for others, it’s a job in videogame form. For soime, MMOs are a whole world of fun, for others, they’re nothing but dull grinding with compromised battle systems. For some, story games and “walking simulators” are fun, for others, they only care about interactive gameplay.
Personally, I think any game that only aspires to be some platonic ideal of “fun” is probably soulless garbage, but I’m sure plenty of people find them fun.
Of course it is. It’s fine if you don’t like it, I fucking hate every Rockstar game ever made except for L.A. Noire, their controls are beyond abysmal, IMO they’ve somehow managed to master the dubious art of making controlling a human or a car feel like steering a barge. That said, I’m not going to pretend that people spending hundreds of hours in GTA or RDR are deluded, I’m sure those games are legitimately fun to those millions of people.
Fun isn’t quite the word, but I saw an interview describe the feeling it gives you—which it shares with Breath of the Wild—as “romanticism in solitude.” It’s just incredible to go explore—even moreso than Breath of the Wild, it’s genius is in densely populating the world with cool stuff that you just want to go check out. Yes, the bosses are hard and, yes, you’re going to die a lot, but the ability to just run around all of that negates some of the difficulty complaints—you can run away from almost anyone/anything on your horse.It’s still not going to be for everyone, but as someone who’d never played a souls game before because of their reputations, I’m quickly becoming obsessed. I’m still confused by a lot of it and so far mostly just trying to grind to get more powerful before I take too many risks, but I love it.
I’ll say as someone that has never played a SoulsBorne that it was overwhelming at first, with class selection devoid of context and a tutorial that’s easily missable because it involves jumping into a suspicious pit, but if you’re down to use a guide to figure out enough stuff to get a sense of things as you dive in, it’s been really fun. But yeah, for newcomers it’s gonna either take a ton of time bashing your head against a wall or a ton of homework. I happen to like this kind of homework, but if it’s not for you then the good news is that Horizon Forbidden West is fun and Cyberpunk, which I’ve always had a soft spot for, got that incredible update, so we’re not short on good new titles.
No, it’s not FUN. But it is weirdly addicting because even though practically everything will kill you, you want to spend time leveling up so that you can finally fight back and there’s some amount of “fun” in that. I’m so tired of dying CONSTANTLY that I mostly just run away from any enemy that’s bigger than me right now. I don’t play a ton of games, but when I do I usually complain that they are too easy. This is not one of those cases. It’s brutal.
It’s fun as shit, but you have to have a certain amount of ability to put up with parts that you might have to try a bunch of times before you succeed. In the past those would be less accessible because it would force you to replay long sections to get back to a boss for example, but now the segments you might have to replay are generally short or nonexistent which I think makes a big difference.But if you aren’t interested in banging up against pieces of the game like that (or getting over the initial learning curve of how to go about combat generally) then maybe it’s not fun. I think in some ways the difficulty is overstated (I’m certainly no expert and am rarely breezing through boss fights) but it’s totally understandable if some people want no part of them
it is both extremely fun [sense of enjoyment] (most of the time!) and extremely gratifying [sense of satisfaction] (also most of the time!), which are my two personal metrics for a video game’s success.
I didn’t just bounce off Dark Souls, I kind of actively hated it: part of it was that I play on the PC, and Fromsoft’s port was almost aggressively lackadaisical. But mostly it was that the “tough but fair” combat often devolved into “memorize the boss patterns and then execute the fight perfectly for five minutes.” I got Elden Ring on the strength of the reviews, and so far I’m having a blast. (The port is still shit; they really need to hire someone who knows what a keyboard is.) The game is much more “forgiving” than the Souls games, not in that it’s any easier, but in that it gives you a lot more tools to play with than the Souls games did. Beating your head against one boss? That’s fine, it’s an open world, piss off for a while and come back when you’re better prepared. Can’t get the timing down? Try summoning your jellyfish bud; that’ll take aggro and entirely change the complexion of the fight.And, for what it’s worth, I don’t think the game takes itself especially seriously—though some of its fans absolutely do.
I’m not a fan of any of their previous games, and I am having a blast with Elden Ring. It’s the most FUN I’ve had with a game in years. The sense of exploration and discovery is the real reason behind that; it’s basically the second coming of Breath of the Wild. (If you loved that game, you’ll love this one imo).The key is to realize that death has virtually zero consequences, and really isn’t a big deal!
I think its pretty annoying to have to go back to the spot you died to get your currency back, though.
I thought that for the first couple of hours, but at a certain point I realized how easy it was to replace any potential runes you lost, as well as to just level up whenever you have enough. Worst I ever lost so far was 5000, and I almost started to feel bad before realizing it wasn’t actually a big deal at all.
I didn’t like any previous souls game. In this one you can overlevel and make the game a lot easier. Still not easy though, but bearable.
If you like repetition in your gameplay then you’ll enjoy this title. Trial and error is a big part of the From gameplay loop.
Speaking as someone about 90 hours in, yes, it’s very fun, for a long while. The endgame areas are ABSOLUTE BULLSHIT though, and will completely kill your enjoyment with many builds. Like, packs of giant guys that function like Basilisks with much greater range on their deathclouds, far more health, and infinite poise so you can’t interrupt their spamming. I expect they’re going to nerf some of these places (specifically Miquella’s Hagtree and Crumbling Farum Azura) because they’re just ridiculous. The game’s very fun up until about Mountaintop of the Giants, where things just start getting ridiculous with enemy health/damage/number relative to possible player health/damage. Getting mobbed by super-fast giants that can aoe spam madness bombs while you get attacked by rats in a crowded ruins is not my idea of a good time, you basically just start running from grace point to grace point and avoiding everything.I might respec to 60 int instead of my current melee/faith build and use the insanely overpowered spells like Comet Azur to get through this stuff. I’m sure they’ll nerf mage spell power soon since it’s pretty broken. But, it seems like it’s the only way to get through some of these endgame areas without being the god of gaming. They make the Ringed City seem like Undead Burg.I’m not great at these games, but I have gotten the platinum on all six Soulsborne games and nothing in them has come close to the frustration I’ve experienced in these last zones. Besides maybe Owl Father.
I’ve always wanted to enjoy the Souls games, because I really like the slow, methodical take on combat. But I never got very far because the areas are pretty linear and you really have to “git gud” to progress very far. And I don’t really want to spend hours upon hours of frustration to get there. And I’m happy for those who do enjoy it.But with Elden Ring you can forget about a hard boss/area you can’t beat and go do something else. The open world allows you to overlevel the hell out of some skills/gear and go back and have an easier time. Although there’s still not much of a story there….
the game is sillier than it seems, there’s a lot of gamey physics that create a lot of funny situations, the way you can tackle combat is really freeform so there’s a bunch of comic solutions to, some NPCs have a twisted sense of humor, the whole game does, and if you play online you’ll learn that the players love to make jokes with the messages they leave behind. the game is still very punishing compared to other games, but elden ring is the most welcoming place to this franchise by a long shot, you’re never stuck unless the only thing left to do is kill the final boss.
Nah Not fun. I am too old to play this game. But it is brilliant and beautiful. I cannot (or rather will not) recount my deaths other to say. They are legion. Best class, is the mage.Cast Cast Run Cast Heal Cast Run Cast Heal Cast Run OMG die.. 🙂 Seriously hate Eagles with (2) 3 foot swords throwing black powder at me. (sorry out of commas.)
It’s like someone asked, “Hey, what if Skyrim was actually good?”
More like a third-rate writer posturing for clicks.
I have no patience for games that see themselves as a challenge that you need to “get good” to overcome. I’m perfectly adequate at video games; God help me if I ever get good at them.
I’m even worse off. My reflexes have always been terrible. Back when games used to rely on pinpoint timing (like old NES games), I couldn’t beat ANYTHING.Because of the nature of how computer/videogame systems have developed in complexity over the years, there’s always a built in “leeway” of timing on button pushes due to inherent latencies, whether it be a bluetooth wireless controller, mouse, or in the case of online games, an internet connection/wireless internet connection.But back in the days of the NES/CV/SMS/IV/etc., controllers were timed almost down to a scanline redraw, so you had to have ridiculous reflexes to play a lot of games.
This is the best troll posting I’ve seen awhile. Sad I arrived early to the comments 😂
The only trolling part here is the jab at Skyrim. The rest is the usual Souls-like circle-wank.
seemed pretty dull and obvious. not to mention wrong, since when were modern Bethesda games massively reliant on PG and not hand-crafted? Skyrim is hardly Daggerfall.
It’s like someone asked, “Hey, what if Skyrim was actually good?” I know that subheadline was written to purely be clickbait snark, but seriously fuck you.
Did you really just say “fuck you” to someone for jokingly dissing a video game you personally enjoy
Yes, I really, jokingly, did. Oh, is this the first time you’ve been on the internet? Welcome! This type of thing happens a lot around here, so you probably want to brace yourself.
I guess I was probably thrown by the use of the word “seriously” beforehand!
Seriously, do you even srryus? For reals dawg
Words uttered on the internet are as free as they are meaningless. I can say “fuck you,” to someone for something as simple as putting beans in chili, and it will change absolutely nothing. So it goes.
I LUV chilibeans!
I meant to tell you: just put beans in your chili.
Billy Hughes better watch his back in AV Club California’s cafeteria if he’s gonna steal Barsanti’s bit.
Normally I’d agree, but he actually shows his working here.“Which is a cheap shot, but I sort of mean it: What if someone took one of these massive, bloated open worlds, filled as they are with with procedurally generated, algorithm-shat content, and instead filled it with authored, beautiful strangeness?”
Interesting question, but what does that have to do with Skyrim?
Well, Skyrim’s environments and dungeons seem, while recycled and generic as you wade through them, quite authored (I think every bone, plate and cup on every table has been placed there by hand courtesy of some level designer).Personally, I see Elden Ring more as an arcade-action game, like Super Mario Bros., where you have to enjoy the game mechanics amd level design and be constantly on the edge in combat situations.In Skyrim, I enjoy improving my own character and building homes and adopting children, collecting weapons and Dwemer artifacts and hoping for quests with some interesting characters and dialogue. And some combat that isn’t too taxing on my brains or reflexes. It is more a point-and-click adventure or Sims-like simulation with some action.The world in Elden Ring seems really enticing, but the gameplay doesn’t beckon me at all if I have to challenge myself to enjoy the story, dialogue or scenery… sorry, I enjoy dialogue trees more than dodge/parry/combo-fighting… I’m lazy 🙂
Oh yeah, it’s apples and oranges alright. I was just pointing out that there was some reasoning underlying the take rather than the usual snark. Credit where it’s due and all that 😛
Yep, granted it was just a great way to clickbait and a bit of fun, I wasn’t offended… but the reasoning was solid as you said because I wouldn’t mind that some of the darkly original and quirky feel of the world in ER would be transported into the quite generic-feeling Skyrim.
Yes Skyrim is a chill out game and it’s absolutely great at that. ER otoh has no chill at all in combat and every decision is geared toward getting better at it however I think the open world means you can go explore and discover interesting beautiful things a bit more easily that the other From games I tried to play.
But in doing so, he ignores The Witcher 3, which long ago proved that it’s entirely possible to fill one of these massive open worlds with brilliant authored content.
Except he didn’t, since nothing in Skyrim is procedurally generated. If he didn’t find all the interconnected lore and dungeons, scrolls, tomes, etc etc – then he is bad at video games (and maybe never actually played Skyrim).
Yeah but his work is wrong. Skyrim is one of the few open world games that doesn’t do that.
ok but that’s beside the point.
To be fair, Witcher 3 beat Elden Ring to the punch on the whole “Skyrim but if it was good” thing.
So it’s Skyrim then?
I made the mistake of playing through fallout 4 immediately before finally trying Skyrim, which rendered it completely joyless. A bit like eating at Pizza Hut then trying to eat a Lunchables cracker-pizza kit.
Yeah I’m not on board with this. Skyrim is one of the few open-world games I’ve actually played all the way through multiple times and enjoyed it each time.
It’s a controversial thing to say, but inarguably correct and relevant.
HE IS RIGHT THOUGH.Skyrim (when it came out at least), was a lake a mile wide and an inch deep. It was an ugly repetitive and frankly dull game.
Playing the pc version of Horizon Zero Dawn which reminds me how much I hate to put more than 50 hours on an open world game, because I am also a completionist. I feel hating myself when playing the game during the weekend instead of vacuuming the house, doing the laundry, going to the gym, get the dust out all those spots, resume the flat search etc. They are vampiric games. Very well done but.
Discussion over on Kotaku got into whether a certain tutorial design choice was a mistake, and I think that it glosses over the main point:The game is designed to be unfriendly. It is not meant to be enjoyed or even played by the majority of the players in the market. It is not designed to be ‘enjoyed’ unless you enjoy being killed by the game over and over again until you memorize each enemy attack pattern and weaknesses and have a lucky run. It requires a certain level of masochism. From has found their market, good for them.I’ve learned from the comments that this is never going to be a game or game series I can even begin to want to try because of that. It’s like looking at some of the more extreme fetishes – yeah, awesome, nope, no interest in submersing myself in tapioca, no harm if you do.
I feel like the difficulty of these games has been really overstated over the years both by the fans who want to feel like they’re part of an exclusive club for beating them and by the gaming press that eventually just started reporting the discourse around the games as fact, which is a real shame because it probably chases people away from them. I’m generally mediocre at games for the most part, the idea of trying to get good at a fighting game or third person action game like Devil May Cry that has complex combos that need to be completed accurately and quickly, fills me with a little bit of dread but mostly just boredom, but I’ve beaten all of the recent Fromsoft games. They really just require patience and good judgement, not some kind of concrete skill that needs to be learned and nurtured. You just have to be willing to put up with them, to be honest. The rewards of being patient with the games are more than worth it in my opinion, but I get why a lot of people bounce off it. I just wish people didn’t act like they were impossibly hard or something.
Its all clout, it’s the same in other mediums as well. People love to name drop difficult books they’ve read or particularly “arthouse” films or complex reference strewn poetry etc etc. The funny thing is the crowd that do it for movies and books and the crowds that do it for video games seem completely discrete circles.
Exactly this. I recently finally got around to watching Martyrs. Is it a rough watch? You fucking bet. Is it a traumatic experience? Not even close. I can’t think of a single pop culture artifact as inaccessible as it’s ever hyped up to be, with the possible but only slight exception of Infinite Jest.
It’s not even that it’s hard, so much as it’s… tedious? When you inevitably die, you have to redo so much just to get back to that one enemy. When I die in a game, I want to immediately refight that battle. I don’t want to have to kill the 500 peons that I killed for the last hour. If it was just more liberal with saves, or – heaven forbid – let you save at will, I’d be all about this franchise.
So, are games not supposed to be accessible to everyone? I mean, I think that is the debate, accessibility, not difficulty.
No not every game is meant to be accessible to everyone. Now what is accessibility? That is the real debate.
No. games don’t need to be accessible to everyone. RTS are not accessible to me because I can’t manage everything in real time. Competitive shooters are not accessible to me because I just don’t have the reflexes. Bullet hell shooters…fuck no….Fromsoft games aren’t for everyone and there is no moral obligation Fromsoft needs make them more accessible. They are a niche developer making games for a niche market. Also Fromsoft games aren’t “difficult,” they are punishing. The distinction is that they require that you learn what the game is teaching you so you stop getting punished. Executing the correct moves is not difficult because the games give the enemies plenty of tells and the windows are generally large enough. But you will die a lot learning what those tells are. A difficult game will, at least for me, requires very precise motor control with quick reflexes. Fromsoft games do not require that.
Short answer: No, all games are not for All people.That’s the choice of the developer/publisher and has more to do with the pursuit of making money.The reason so much media (games, music, tv, movies) is so idk, vanilla I guess, id because these mediums try to be “for everyone”. And what you get is a bunch of luke warm shit.
> So, are games not supposed to be accessible to everyone? I mean, I think that is the debate, accessibility, not difficulty.
No, not every game. Why should they be? Accessibility is a virtue, but not a requirement.
The debate might be about accessibility, but the problem is that most people debating – including journalists – don’t even understand what it means for a game to be accessible. The Sekiro discourse from a couple of years ago that started with an awful Forbes article really showed that problem by using clickbaity headlines and implying that From games are disrespectful to players because they demand an amount of mechanical engagement.Like, people who claim Elden Ring has bad UX design because it doesn’t have a quest journal are missing the forest for the trees. The lack of a journal isn’t much of a problem – if anything, it’s more emblematic of the fact that we’ve been conditioned by the last decade of quest design to be lead by the hand and for the things you do to barely matter unless it’s explicitly highlighted, which is why people were frustrated by a game like Disco Elysium killing them in the opening minute because they just press all the dialogue options instead of reading what’s on screen.Elden Ring can be given a journal or an easy mode and it still won’t be accessible, because it lacks a bunch of features that would allow a lot of people to even begin playing them: simplified inputs, a high visibility mode, some kind of guide feature, high contrast audio or just small things in its UX design, like a way to clearly see what the icons underneath the status bars mean.Lowering the difficulty is a step, but the problem is that there are already ways to make these games easier by virtue of just using what’s in them. Elden Ring has a bunch of things you can find very early on that trivialize a lot of the challenge due to sheer numbers – the Moonveil katana or the basic Wolf Spirit summons can be found within the first 5 hours of play and they can trivialize much of the challenge due to how strong they are. But no manner of difficulty options or OP items will help if someone can’t physically handle using the left stick, bumpers and face buttons at the same time.https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/making-souls-games-accessible-isnt-the-same-as-making-them-easy – this is a good article on the issue. The author is visually impaired and the difficulty for him isn’t mechanical – he’s beaten those games several times already – it’s that he literally has trouble perceiving much of the games 80% of the time. Putting in an easy mode does nothing for someone like him – if anything, it waters down the thing he actually enjoys about the game.But a high visibility mode in the style of TLoU2, letting you hold R1 to chain attacks instead of tapping or a pause option in offline mode would do nothing for the actual gameplay balance of literally any Souls game, but would give a lot of people the physical means to tackle them in the first place, whether it’s because they are actually impaired or just less dexterous due to age or lack of play. That’s the conversation we should be having in the first place and that’s the pressure we should be putting on developers. And that’s what From should be getting shit for, not for making challenging games.My girlfriend can ace all the Kingdom Hearts games on Proud Mode while half asleep and drunk, and I think playing on that difficulty sober is significantly harder than anything in a From game. She still couldn’t get into Bloodborne because she can’t remap the controls into something she’s comfortable with, and rewiring her brain to a completely new control scheme is tricky for someone who has less time to play games than I, especially when the opening hours are as punishing. She can technically use the PS4’s internal button remap feature, but that’s an additional hassle that also doesn’t switch any of the in-game prompts, so it ultimately switches one problem for another. Button remapping or decent gamma options should be a basic feature since 2005 and people should call out From for only getting to the party in 2022, and not even fully.
So, as stated, the issue is on agreed on what is accessible and what is challenging.
Hard disagree. I love DS and Elden Ring. They are fun once you get into the groove of things.
I have to concur with what Phil Emral said: the difficulty of these games has been far, far overstated. Purely from a mechanical standpoint, the combat is similar to many action games. More deliberate really in a lot of respects. I’d say most of the difficulty in the Souls games and Bloodborne comes from the fact that they allow to go into areas you are way underpowered for from the start, where the simplest trash mob can one-shot you if it lands a hit. Once you figure out the way to go it’s not that bad.
Really DS/BB/ER games is just learning that no matter what level you are and where in the game you are the simplest trash mob can easily kill you. If you are patient and realize your limitations (eg fight enemies one on one not in groups, don’t rush into/through areas especially if unfamiliar with area, you don’t have to fight every enemy the first time you encounter them), and accept you will die at times, then the only real hard part is the bosses…where summons are available to help you. I’m hardly an amazing gamer, I only have time to play video games on weekends now due to other responsibilities, and I have beaten all the souls games (except Elden Ring of course, only like 20hrs in).
I don’t know really. The stagger mechanics when you take a hit from any enemy are much more noticeable than on most games that I’ve played before (I’m a triple AAA basic bitch) so that with the longer recovery time IS a game changer but the game is still deeply rewarding so I’m generally ok with the tougher enemy approach but I do find it substantially harder than e.g the last God Of War or Forbidden West.
Effin’ A, Cotton, effin’ A.
The idea that people who play From games must be masochistic is a bit of a meme by this point. Most people you speak to aren’t going to say they enjoy dying on a boss for 4 hours, what they’ll say they enjoy is the moment of triumph after dying on a boss for 4 hours. Some might not find a particularly clear distinction between those two but to understand the games’ appeal means understanding the difference.
…What if Skyrim was actually good?”C’mon you can be better than that ..
I lol’d
The saddest thing about the difficulty discourse regarding From games is that it inevitably buries everything beautiful about them. They are some of the most melancholic, beautiful, intricately designed and yes, hopeful games out there. Fuck the fandom and the “git gud” crowd for turning the challenge into a shitty meme and scarecrow for so many people. I’m confident more people would find out that they vibe with Soulslikes if a literal decade of unfunny wankery didn’t give them bad preconceptions about them.Yes, the games are hard. No, they aren’t cruel, they require patience. Not everyone has patience and that’s fine. Elden Ring throws so much stuff to help you out that it very much supports building that patience, and whoever shames anyone for utilizing the OP weapon found early or using summons is a fucking idiot who doesn’t know how to have fun and they can fuck off forever for ruining what is one of the greatest games of all time with their shitty discourse.Elden Ring is one of the most unique, strange, epic and meticulously crafted games I’ve ever played. I am 60 hours in, I haven’t even gotten the full map and at every corner I still discover things that are mindblowing. I found an ancient elevator in the middle of a forest, rode it for more than a minute down and ended up in an abandoned city complex underground where there are stars. An abandoned church was the home of the turtle pope, who kindly taught me magic and spoke of things long forgotten. I rode in a mist-soaked ravine to find an intricate hidden city hanging on the side of a cliff, where the miners were killed by a colony of siren bats who attract men by pretending to sing psalms. I climbed that cliff and ended up gazing at the giant, silver tree in the middle of the world. Next to me was a one-armed woman I saved hours ago from her disease by giving her a special needle, and as we watched the horizon she lamented she can’t fight by my side.I fought a giant riding a tiny horse during a festival held to his name – a festival gathering warriors to give a great man a deserving end. 9 other people were there with me and we barely got him. He turned into a meteor mid-fight. I finished him off with a backflip, missing him slamming a sword the size of a tower by just a hair, which I followed up into an anime teleport forward and slash. Then, as he died, the literal stars on the sky began falling.In the opening hours of the game, I pissed myself seeing a dragon at the nearby swamp. Almost 60 hours later, a bigger dragon tried to jump me when riding up a hill. I didn’t fear shit, I rode Torrent between his legs, stabbed him with a katana and the fucker flew away. I’ve seen such wonders in this world that the dragon barely registered as one, and I think it knew it.It’s fucking incredible. People wonder “is it fun” and yes, it absolutely is fun. There are very few open world games filled with a comparable sense of wonder and promise than this – Red Dead 2, Breath of the Wild and, yes, Skyrim, at least in its early hours.
“Git gud” can be used for good instead of evil. Praise the sun!
This is a phenomenal comment.
All of that is wonderful (really great post), but I just fought the Flamelurker and died within a minute for the 60th time in the Demon’s Souls remake and I cannot for the life of me find any way that I can make a dent on him. I have read all the guides, nada.I believe myself to have extraordinary patience, but I don’t know if I can bring myself to fall down that series of platforms to get to him only to die again another ten times.Should I just give up on playing these types of games?
Use magic. Flamelurker is ridiculously weak to magic, and you can hit him from range and kill him pretty easily.
Yeah problem is that I have a Temple Knight Faith build so right now magic is pretty nonexistent. Or is there a ranged magic weapon I should consider?
No, Flamelurker is just a cunt. I’d suggest grabbing the Thief Ring and farting at him with Poison Mist or just leaving him for now and moving on to Dark Souls 1 if you have interest in the genre.This might be a harsh truth for many fans, but Demon’s Souls is very much a proof of concept. It’s still a very good game, but it has the most bullshit boss and level design of From’s titles – the remake didn’t change one thing about that. It’s very much a developer finding their sea legs in a new formula. Dark Souls 1 still has some issues, it’s on the whole much more forgiving and well-designed, especially in its first half.Demon’s Souls on PS3 was my first contact with the genre and I bounced off it HARD, to the point where I felt intimidated by all other From games I tried later, because that experience was quite oof. Then Sekiro happened, forced me to play aggressively and simultaneously made me realize that I don’t like playing defensively in the first place and suddenly, all these games clicked. I finished that one, then teared through Bloodborne which I used to fear. Then I marathoned Dark Souls 1-3, finished both Nioh games (Nioh 2 is absolutely Top 5 in the genre and on par with From’s best outings IMO) and returned to Demon’s. A bunch of that game is bull, but instincts and mentality built from those other titles helped me appreciate what that game does right and just swing a big dick at things that suck.
There is no Demon’s Souls boss that is even 5% as shit as Bed of Chaos.
I won’t argue, because I found that everyone has a different pain tolerance with Soulslikes – to me Bed of Chaos is just boring and annoying, and even in that category I think Micolash has it beat. Personally I haven’t hated anything in these games more than Laurence the First Vicar and Darkeater Midir, while at least two of my friends consider Laurence the best overall fight in Bloodborne, which I find insane.
Okay this is super useful. Really appreciate it.My problem with Flamelurker is just that while with almost every boss I’ve played in history, I know why I die, and I know what I should be doing, I just don’t time it right, but with him I honestly can’t figure out what the pattern is supposed to be. I saw someone on YouTube saying his hitbox is all fucked up and that sounds right. Maybe I should just invite someone into my game and get it over with. Or like you say, try the poison route.And yeah, I had also been playing the Dark Souls 1 remaster but had jumped to Demon’s Souls when I got my PS5 as it’s such a showcase. Maybe I should go back, yet I find it so hard to unplug from something challenging even if it’s this unforgiving. I think I was at “Sen’s Fortress”, if that makes any sense, and was actually having fun and feeling like I was progressing after so many fucking deaths in Blighttown.I likewise gave up on Bloodborne a few years ago as I couldn’t get past the Blood-Starved Beast. Was tearing through it until that point, then just hit that wall hard. And then there’s Elden Ring.Hmm. So many options. All of them painful.
What level is your character? I Sherpa’d dozens of people through Flamelurker, I’m happy to lay a sign down outside his lair if you’re able to summon me. He’s extremely vulnerable to magic, so if you’ve got even basic sorcery skills, all you really need to do is set your gear light enough that you’re still able to fast (or at least medium) roll, and then just Soul Arrow him into oblivion, rolling as needed when he gets close.
Damn, don’t think I can as I’m Level 30 Temple Knight Faith and that’s probably why I’m stuck. Have only the Heal miracle so far and no magic.I guess I’m going to try the Thief Ring / poison trick Ghostlet mentioned and if that doesn’t work just lay down a summon. Thanks much for the offer tho!
The best way to fight Flamelurker is to play around in other areas, make progress there, and come back with better equipment and gear a number of hours later, when he is much more manageable. He seems designed to punish people who aren’t disposed to try other levels when you hit a steep difficulty slope.
Ah okay this seems fair. Maybe I’ll tick off 5-1 instead. Thanks!
Find a wand and use the “Water Veil” spell, no matter how shitty your stats are for it. It will half the damage you take from Flamelurker when active. Equip the fire-resisting rings and whatever armor you have with the best fire resistance stats. Summon a few friends and keep casting Water Veil. You’ll find it’s really not that bad.
That is just awesome advice. Thanks man!!
I have felt the exact same sentiment and Elden Ring has the most phenomenal solution – you simply just walk the other way. Seriously. If playing 100 hours of a game and NEVER having to defeat literally any boss if you don’t want to and still have a grand ol’ time doing a million other puzzles, quests and achievements, then this is for you. Plus, when and if you do go back, you invariably melt that boss you were having troubles with. It’s so good.
The great thing about Elden Ring is you don’t have to bang your head against the wall to progress. Just go explore somewhere else. You can come back to a tough boss dozens of hours later with much better gear and absolutely destroy them. It even has free fast travel.
Oooh I think I found the ravine city ur talking about but I completely missed that girl, I’m gonna have to go back and look for her cuz I’ve been wondering what she’s been up to LOL I have a bad feeling abt her questline xD
Well said! Open worlds really are all the more incredible when the onus is on *you for exploring them. And the art here is *astoundingly good. I found myself wanting to live in Leyndell. Before it all went to shit of course. But even after; it’s oddly peaceful.
I want to give it a spin if it ever hits PSNow, or if I can get it on deep discount. I’ve just tried FROM games multiple times, and I can’t cotton to their precise kind of difficulty. Returnal? Moar plz. Guacamelee and/or Doom Eternal jump puzzles? Yep, I’m in. Dead Cells? Hey, I’m up for dying a bit. I just can’t seem to “unlock” the FROM stuff.
For me, the key is to a) realize that losing souls doesn’t matter that much and more importantly, b) to find an approach that works. I initially used to play these games sword and shield and cautiously biting at enemies, which was neither very satisfying nor felt particularly right, but the memetic amount of tough talk about the difficulty made me feel like I can’t play it differently. Then Sekiro and Bloodborne forced me to play aggressively, just dodging, biting and rarely being on the defensive and I realized that this is my jam – and then I was fucking hooked.It clicked so hard that after finishing Sekiro I immediately maxed out Bloodborne, then binged through Dark Souls 1-3 and Demon’s, then binged through a bunch of other Soulslikes. I played all of them like I’m a mosquito and I am still not tired of that playstyle.It’s also why Dark Souls 3 is my favorite of the trilogy. Very early on that game says “shields are for assholes, here’s a sword that makes you breakdance, now go backflip that guy to death”, which makes it the most limiting playstyle-wise. Those who embrace it will have an amazing time – the final boss fight of The Ringed City is hands down one of the greatest things I have ever played, because while the boss can do ridiculous shit, you can do equally ridiculous things and the duel turns into Rey Mysterio vs Rey Fenix – but others might be banging their heads at it.
Yeah, it’s in the category of stuff that I have to just kinda commit to one day, or at least for an extended period of time.Last time I tried was Bloodborne. I hit the initial werewolf, and died five times. Tried running around it, couldn’t find a way to do so without getting swiped, died three more times, said “fuck this shit,” and abandoned it. I feel like I just need to crack it, and then the rest can draw me in.
That’s a wonderful love letter to the game. And a great review. Have always thought that the souls game were not for me, but you’ve changed my mind.
I agree with most of your comment but I do find “You just have to be patient” as a nice way of saying “get gud”The thing is when you get as old as me you realize something. You don’t have time to put hundred of hours into a game. It’s just a fact. So my meager 8 or so hours of week gaming are better spent on games I can make better progress on. With a souls game I can spend all that time on a single boss and not move forward and that isn’t fun for me. I do like the Souls games weird style so once some modded get some “easy” mode mods up for Elden Ring(and it goes on sale). I will probably pick it up.
Elden Ring is one of the most unique, strange, epic and meticulously crafted games I’ve ever playedI think that might just be the main reason I enjoy these From Soft games. Elden Ring definitely seems like what happens when From Soft takes their thoughtful, deliberate level/world design* and stretch it out to the scale of an open world; every landmark, enemy placement, dungeon, etc. feels like it was put there intentionally, both as a good game design and as part of a larger story about a ruined and ravaged land. The world and its many delights is the carrot; the challenge is the stick. And it is that challenge that gives weight and meaning to the world, every new vista is extra satisfying because I know all the shit I had to get past—even if I had to use Torrent to do so— to get there.And I just want to really emphasize the “strange” part of your above statement. The SoulsBourne games have never been afraid to lean into the weird, from the goofy design on the Mimic (the OG of From Soft weirdness) to rolling Skeleton Balls to consumable umbilical cord items. And Elden Ring is ceratinly no exception! Why are valuable healing resources implemented as a beetle rolling a ball (it’s not actually dung, but that’s the correlation)? Why are there giant crabs? Or land octopi? And why can I wear the corpse of one as a headpiece? It’s possible there might be lore reasons for all this, but these are still choices the developers made… and I unabashedly love it.*YMMV, but I did find Dark Souls 2 to be a dip in quality in this department. A mediocre Dark Souls is still better than the best that many AAA studios offer, but it is not my favorite by a long shot. I’m told the DLC is really good, but I just don’t have the desire to replay it to get to that DLC.
Normal goats roll like Sonic when they run away from you. It’s the cutest, weirdest thing in Elden Ring.I really like Dark Souls 2 (even though it’s the weakest of the trilogy for me), but it’s a victim of two things. First, it’s From Software trying to realize their ambitions way too early – it was initially set to be an open world game that had to be awkwardly cut into something much smaller (fun fact: so was Demon’s Souls, but there they realized that they aren’t gonna make an open world game a lot earlier and could work it out). It’s incredibly visible in its lore, often nonsensical world construction and encounter design – The Pursuer, a boss who stalks you throughout the game, is a prime example. The second problem is Scholar of the First Sin, which fixed a lot of problems with the game but also felt the need to overcorrect in some ways that weren’t needed, like overcrowding several areas with enemies, which only manages to pad out otherwise solid dungeons.But there’s a lot to love IMO. Like its incredible atmosphere. It’s a game about relentless hope in the face of despair and all of its stories, even the sad and melancholic ones, are a brash rebuttal of the series’ fatalism. All Souls games have an anti-Nihilistic (or Nihilistic in its original meaning) thread running through them, a kind of “everything is shit, but there’s beauty in trudging through it” mentality, but Dark Souls 2 dares to be outright optimistic and I think that’s very touching. Its magic and combat system are also quietly the best in the series.And the DLCs for it are, indeed, very good. They tell a great story, the dungeons are quite good and the boss fights have some of the best storytelling, action and spectacle in the series. I wouldn’t say they are mandatory playing, especially if you’re not into DS2, but are indeed worthy of the hype.
Elden Ring has a lot of DS2 vibes. It’s open world and brings back a bunch of its mechanics, for one, but it’s also quite warm – not as optimistic, but it’s a game where every character you encounter dares to dream and strive for something better, whatever it may be.
Fair enough. I do admire its ambition. DS2 was set in a different land, completely divorced from the first game, whereas DS3 might not be directly connected to the first game (then again, every bit of lore is kinda vague), but it was clearly indulging in nostalgia for OG DS. DS2 also tries to implement a torch as a part of the gameplay, but it only really factors in for a few areas; Bloodborne and Elden Ring would implement it in a more practical way.It’s possible I might revisit it someday if they ever do a proper remaster, but every time I think back to my time playing it, all I can really recall about it is a bunch of joyless gauntlets full of hard-hitting, tanky enemies. Black Gulch might be my least favorite area in any DS game. It’s not that long a trip from the start to the boss, but the whole thing is designed to wear the player down. It feels like the only area where running through is the intended playstyle.But I’m glad that people liked it enough that the whole SoulsBorne experiment didn’t end there.
Funnily enough, that torch wasn’t implemented because they couldn’t get it to work on all platforms. Reportedly the lightning system was too much and it tanked the framerate so hard that it landed in couple of frames per second. Elden Ring brings it back and it works much better, to the point where I sometimes still use the torch for the atmosphere instead of the more convenient hip lantern.But yeah, I feel you. My personal DS2 bane is the fort portion of The Forest of the Fallen Giants. It’s an absolute momentum killer – I like the opening areas of their other games a lot, but that place can fuck right off.I will also say I am biased when it comes to DS2 because it has my single favorite FromSoftware NPC and arc in Lucatiel of Mirrah. I might have a thing for sad, scarred amnesiacs, because Elden Ring subtly calls back to that character and surprise, she’s also a favorite of mine.
“ended up in an abandoned city complex underground where there are stars.”That’s something that exists in Skyrim.
I love this comment and will add only this – this is the first ‘open world game’ to understand the most fundamental truth of the actual IRL world – its beauty AND its brutality. Video games so often try to deliver the first but fail on the second. when you’re character is so obviously not HUMAN – AKA small, weak, pathetically unequipped to survive the harsh reality of even placid nature – it fails to connect (for me) with the true sense of awe that exploring the (real) world gives me in spades. Because you MUST respect it. You must prepare and roll with the punches and really understand that if you see a gigantic shrimp crawling around a swamp, no matter how much you think you are the top of the food chain, it can easily murder you in the most brutal ways. I love this game and I love that it feels like exploring a real, tangible world because it captures all the duality of real life – but with magic, infinite lives and the ability to only speak in cryptic non-sequiturs.
Beautifully said. Signed up for Kinja to say that to you my friend.
That’s 4 time evil old guy hall of famer Julian Glover you’re talking about, show some respect.
I’m not here for the meat-and-potatoes of the game. I want me some tasteless garnish. How’s the character generator? That header image is some beautiful ugliness, and I’m all for it.
Not only does the character generator allow for beautiful monstrosities, but the fashion (souls) is topnotch. I’ve found some pretty interesting pieces myself, but I’ve also seen people walking around with pig masks and what I’m pretty sure is a shield made from a mushroom cap.
It’s a dead jellyfish, actually.
“What if Skyrim were actually good?”Comment section:
That’s one of those videos where I think “When does a prank turn into attempted murder?”
I’ve found it by far the most approachable From game. I like how they’ve made it more approachable (spirit summons, healing flasks recharging after fighting groups, more frequent check points and fast travel) without compromising the formula. The longest I’ve ever played one of these was Sekiro, where I got up to the butterfly lady and then quit. In this one I got 20 hours in, decided my build was garbage, started over, and now have another 10 on a new character. Over the last week I decided multiple times to give up on it only to decide to give it a little more time, which hooked me again. I do think progression is a little messed up – with both characters, I’ve felt I’m overpowered for the first main area and underpowered for the second, leaving me feeling frustrated on what to do. Still, overall this feels like a success to me. They’ve finally made a game even a relative casual From guy like me wants to keep playing.
“What if someone took one of these massive, bloated open worlds, filled
as they are with with procedurally generated, algorithm-shat content,
and instead filled it with authored, beautiful strangeness? Filled it
with wonder and secrets, where finding a single hidden passage can open
whole new vistas to explore? Filled it with strange, sad little stories,
that come to dark and twisted ends?”Honestly, Guild Wars 2 is a lot like that.
I get sad when Rikkiti doesn’t get her shinies.
I read an article yesterday about how Elden Ring gets elevators right. I don’t remember which site (most likely Kotaku, RPS, or Polygon), but it’s amazing to me that it came a day after I found a small unassuming building in the woods, a building the article actually mentions, stepped on a lever, and took an elevator ride down down down. Seriously, I can’t express how long the elevator ride was. But it wasn’t boring. Every second the ride didn’t end excited me more and more.I won’t be specific about what I found there. But it was a day of game time for me. I would happily have paid $20 just for the experience that came at the end of a magical elevator ride.And so far, that’s what Elden Ring has done. It’s a constant wonder, and I keep finding new adventures. Not because of a question mark on the map, but because I saw something that looked interesting in the distance.
The elevators hide loading and also make the verticality of the space way more engaging. I loved Castle Morne for that; and there’s a divine tower you can’t enter through the front door; you’ve got to scale the side of it, only to then work your way back down through the inside.
Honestly, that elevator ride made my jaw drop. You think the Lands Between are sprawling and epic, then, in the span of 10 seconds, you come to the realization that you haven’t even seen HALF of what the game has to offer.
Can a game be “meticulously crafted” with as much re-used assets as Elden Ring? I kid, I kid! If I’m not completely AAA open-world exhausted after Horizon (which also has some re-used assets I’m sure, but is even more of a joy to play than its predecessor and will be snubbed for shit just like its predecessor was due to BOTW) then I’d pick this up out of curiosity. Maybe in the fall.I do think I won’t be playing Sifu again though. That game is hard AND not fun.
I noticed the re-used assets too, but I think the focus is on making the larger areas feel overall unique, and I definitely think they succeeded in that
Yeah I feel bad for the Horizon series. I absolutely love both games but every time something huge comes out a week later and steals it’s thunder
I had exactly the scope-awareness moment you’re talking about. Reaching the last third of the map, only to realize how *fucking huge that last third really is.
Great! thanks for informative read. Hello, I am from EMB expert. EMB expert is one of the best digitizing company in usa. They provide expert embroidery digitizing and vector conversion services for further details contact Email: [email protected].
“It’s like someone asked, “Hey, what if Skyrim was actually good?”“Skyrim was ground breaking and amazing. It’s also not just filled with “procedural generated” content. There are many many other giant open world games that have a ton of boring filler you could criticize but Skyrim really isn’t one of them. Skyrim is full of a lot of shit but much of it are actual well designed quests and stories. It feels dated because it’s old at this point but it’s still a masterpiece. Maybe Elden Ring is as well but taking a swipe at Skyrim feels shitty.
skyrim is far more engaging than Elden Ring. Your opinion in this matter is bad.
I am someone who just as of 2 weeks before Elden Ring’s released was an ardent Dark Souls Hater — I gave the original Dark Souls another playthrough after the I binged Dark Souls YouTube content. The fandom has really mellowed out over the years and is now just charmingly enthusiastic instead creepily obsessed. I am glad I did because I fell in love with it the 2nd playthrough — and suddenly I was so excited to play Elden Ring that it was the first game I got on launch day in over a decade,I have to eat piles and piles of crow for how much I was hater for the series for years in saying this but Elden Ring is the most perfect game I’ve ever played. It is a masterpiece without equal. I cannot believe this game exist. If you are denying yourself the experience of playing it because you are afraid of the length, difficulty, or put off by the discourse I ask you to really reconsider. I understand not trusting something that has gotten such intense praise but this game really and truly earns it.
I got my husband who really struggles with these kind of intense actions games a shot and he has fallen in love with it too.
I am dedicated Destiny 2 players and I was hype for the Witch Queen expansion but I haven’t even touched it because I am so enraptured in Elden ring. Elden Ring Slaps, play it!!
>What if someone took one of these massive, bloated open worlds, filled as they are with with procedurally generated, algorithm-shat content, and instead filled it with authored, beautiful strangeness? Filled it with wonder and secrets, where finding a single hidden passage can open whole new vistas to explore? Filled it with strange, sad little stories, that come to dark and twisted ends?So Fallout New Vegas?
It’s funny you should mention Skyrim, because the last open world RPG before this that really sunk it hooks into me—well, that would probably be The Witcher 3…but, well, before it, it was my first (and, I would argue, best) contact with The Elder Scrolls series: Morrowind. I was so obsessed with that game and its weird, wild, and dangerous world that I would occasionally imagine how life would look like filtered through its (very messy, by today’s standards) UI. It’s also notable that these two games separated by 20 years (Has it really been that long?) have more than a few similarities. Both set the player off on their journey with a bit of prophecy and a vaguely-defined goal. Both allow the player to venture into really dangerous regions of the map right from the start. Both take place in a ravaged world full of mystery and ancient wonders. Both….ummm…feature airborne jellyfish as enemies?!? OK, there are probably more points of comparison, but I can’t immediately think of more right now.
I always like these games and have played them all to some extent. When Demon Souls came out I found it frustrating, but then I got the point of them. At my peak I ended up finishing Dark Souls III including all the DLCs. After finishing Dark Souls III, most other non From games felt simple and unrewarding.
Reposting this since it somehow ended up on the Pam & Tommy Taylor Schilling page.I’m about 3 hours in so far, and while the graphics are wonderful (great artwork always beats technological masterpieces) I still have yet to be grabbed by anything that says “you just have to keep playing this game”.Granted, 3 hours is practically just loading up the game compared to your 100, but Skyrim already has it beat on that.Nowheres near the amount of bugs that Skyrim had at launch, though. And much, much better performance
If it was worth 20 hours of your time, it’ll be worth 40Hard disagree, after about 20 hours I’m definitely cashing out now. There just isn’t enough difference in the gameplay from this and their previous games to warrant me wasting anymore of my time on it.
A hotter take: Elden Ring is “What if Breath of the Wild was actually as good as the critics said it was?”
The game is a solid 7/10 from me. The use of the same animations, weapons, sound efx, and gameplay loop is pretty lazy. Hell even the story is very similar to the previous From games. The heavy goth world and story is played out to the point of it being almost comical. If you’ve played dark souls 3 to completion I’m not sure you’ll get anything new from this title other than a mount, and a false sense of freedom.
Game looks like a lot of fun but I could never mesh with the combat and the brutal difficulty of the Souls games, I only played Bloodbourne. After dying probably half a dozen times on the FIRST enemy you encounter I was kind of put off, but I did play a bit more. I do like difficult games though, I LOVE the Bayonetta series, another series know for it’s brutal difficulty, but the combat is so much more fun, IMO, and when you do die, which happens ALOT, you know it’s because you screwed up and not that the game “cheated” you.
https://www.avclub.com/the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim-17982284110
You guy gave Skyrim a good review
Easily the best game i have ever played.