Even the Falcon And The Winter Soldier writers weren't told what happened to Steve Rogers
TV Features The Falcon and the Winter Soldier
The Marvel Cinematic Universe stories are often at their worst when they’re being forced into Marvel’s machinery rather than finding new and interesting ways to interact with the machinery, like Thor’s sidequest to the magic cave puddle in Avengers: Age Of Ultron or the hoops that Iron Man 2 jumps through to try and walk back the “Avengers Initiative” thing from the first movie. Disney+’s The Falcon And The Winter Soldier may have just been a TV spin-off of the MCU, but it sounds like it felt the heavy hand of Marvel Studios as much as any movie.
In a recent interview with Inverse, showrunner Malcolm Spellman revealed that some aspects of The Falcon And The Winter Soldier were heavily dictated by Marvel, to the point where the people making the show weren’t even allowed to know about (or pull characters from) the larger MCU. For example, those coy references to Steve Rogers’ current location post-Avengers: Endgame weren’t meant to be teases about what he was actually up to while his friends were learning, and growing, and saving the world, they were included because the writers literally had no idea what happened to Steve Rogers after he gave up his shield to Sam Wilson and wanted to find a fun way to dance around it.
Spellman spins this as a positive thing, because they were able to come up with whatever they wanted to say about Steve Rogers without worrying about giving a wrong answer, but it is kind of awkward and jarring that Steve Rogers apparently died or disappeared off-screen and nobody really cared enough to, say, give him a memorial of some sort. Bucky and Sam don’t just talk about him like he’s dead, they talk about him like he died a while ago and they’ve pretty much moved on.
Another issue, though this one is very understandable, is that MCU boss Kevin Feige quickly disabused the Falcon And The Winter Soldier team of any notions they might’ve had about being able to use other Marvel heroes. The finale’s big action happened in New York City, home of Spider-Man, but Spellman says the response from Feige when they started talking about bringing in other heroes was “No. Stop it.” He says Marvel is very strict about how crossovers “have to occur organically,” which was apparently a good enough reason for the TFATWS team to give up on their Spider-Man dreams, but… wouldn’t it be pretty organic if bad guys were attacking New York? And wouldn’t saving people from helicopters and stopping super-strong bad guys from getting away be easier with webs? Look, we get it, Marvel would have to run it by Sony and pay Tom Holland to record some lines, so it was never going to happen, but Marvel went to the trouble of building this whole universe and it should know that people are going to ask about this stuff from time to time.
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New York City, also home of Dr. Strange (*cough* and the Defenders *uncough*) …and that wouldn’t take talking to Sony.
They didn’t get unsnapped. Neither did the Cloak and Dagger who actually had really useful superpowers (and absolutely no one watched).
Cloak and Dagger… absolutely no one watchedFalse.
I enjoyed Cloak and Dagger. I was glad they at least got a Runaways crossover.
I liked it 🙂
I thought it was pretty good and actually interesting.
D’Spayre was an interesting villain and I thought the leads did a good job.
Racial injustice, corrupt cops, human trafficking and industrial pollution being taken on by kids trying to make things right. (Better than The Runaways)
Oh right the whole first season with the corrupt cops and Roxxon, yup!
Doesn’t Doctor Strange really only deal with magical threats though? And otherwise sit things out? (Thanos being the exception)
Cloak and Dagger are, at best, 3rd tier heroes. Mostly they live in the “almost villains” category . No one reads their comics, ever, either.
I read most comics they appear in
Ok. Very few ever read their comics, ever, either.
Maybe? To be sure, I haven’t seen the series yet or familiar with Strange-lore (or anything on D+ for that matter), so I don’t even know what happened. I’m only saying, the article ends with “NYC cameo?” My brain goes to: well…it’s just not Spidey, but Strange is also in NYC.
Spidey is one thing, but Strange definitely doesn’t waste his time on petty shit like non-magical humans attacking the U.N. He’s got realms and dimensions to worry about.
That begs the question of why Dr. Strange sat on his ass during the events of Wandavision.
I mean you could easily hand wave other heroes not showing up as they are busy doing their own shit. The entire universe just got unfucked and is ripe for exploiting, I assume villains wouldn’t just watch the news and say “wait, wait hold up, this one group is doing stuff, we need to wait our turn.”
I mean you could easily hand wave other heroes not showing up as they are busy doing their own shit.Yeah, I mean, look at the events of Iron Man 3 or the Winter Soldier. That was some world altering stuff, and most of the Avengers are just sitting that one out.
Hell in Ant Man, Scott explicitly brings up that they should call the Avengers but Hank turns that idea down because he doesn’t trust Stark.
That’s true for the most part, but generally that works better when the threat is happening kind of quick with no time to get anything coordinated and in a location where heroes can’t just get to in a minute. But in this case, they knew exactly when and where a major terrorist attack was going to happen, there should’ve been time to get somebody. I mean in the end I agree with the decision since it would’ve been strange to bring in someone else in the final episode but as far as in-universe reasons… well it’s good they don’t address it because I feel any excuse would be very weak.
I agree, but I think there’s one major exception: War Machine. Cheadle appeared in the show’s first episode, so we know he’s still on Sam’s radar (and good side). I think it wouldn’t have been unreasonable for him to show up, even in just a “hey Rhodey, can you just patrol the area and make sure none of the supervillains gets too far away while we wrangle them?” type of role. I recognize that it would still have required a bit more buildup (like a mention in episode 3 or something), but still, I think it would have both helped encourage the sense of this truly being an interconnected universe, and also have been tremendously fun.
Exactly. They knew because they are in positions and know people in positions to be aware. Hell, the entire series was about Sam and Bucky tracking the Flag Smashers. Spider-man isn’t plugged into all those same networks, and he wasn’t part of the operation from the beginning. Why the hell would they call up Peter Parker to say, “Hey, got half an hour? Gonna be some major terrorist shit going on in your part of the world and we’re not sure our super soldier and state-of-the-art equipped regular soldier can handle it; we’d feel a lot better if we had a semi-scatterbrained teenager on hand to really shore up our response.”
Because there’s gonna be some major terrorist shit going on and all hands on deck would be useful. Plus scatterbrained teenager is really underselling Spidey, Sam and Bucky both know first hand how useful he can be in a fight since he took both of them down (and webbed them to the floor) in the airport fight in Civil War.
If everything is happening concurrently then wouldn’t Spiderman be a fugitive in Europe and Dr Strange be doing whatever his movies gonna be about? They got bigger fish to fry
Spider-Man: Far From Home actually takes place 2 months after TFATWS. FFH is 8 months post blip, TFATWS is 6 months post blip.
Ahh thank you fair point but I think that even if it starts 6months after endgame the story seems to take place over a decent amount of time because the first couple episodes seem to be happening over a period of time with him giving the shield, then doing ops for the govt, the new cap, etc so its possible they could have gotten into the territory where spider-man is happening
Nah. Sam said fuck Steve because he didn’t return his Marvin Gaye album
Or just not set the finale in NYC. What about Chicago? Paris? Geneva?
I mean, that’s basically the exact logic they use for Captain Marvel. She’s busy, the universe has bigger shit to deal with.
They also deserve to take some annual leave occasionally.
Spiderman was taking a nap
Yeah, anyone who gets too deep into “why didn’t they call _______?” is just going to ruin their own fun. The world is a big place, and things are happening everywhere, all the time. Peter was doing homework in Queens, not patrolling Manhattan for a radicalized gang of anti-nationalist super-soldiers. Doctor Strange decided not to get involved because he has bigger fish to fry. Daredevil had a date that night. War Machine was on the west coast at an Air Force base. And so on.
They could even have a little fun lampshading it. As in Buffy the Vampire Slayer’s, “Dawn’s in trouble. Must be Tuesday.”
Back in the ‘80’s, the Spider-Man & His Amazing Friends even touched on this in one episode briefly. They were in a different part of NYC, and Spidey asked something to the point of isn’t this Iron-Man’s territory? They quickly jumped to Iron-Man in space, destroying meteorites headed to earth, and Stan Lee narrating the same.
I don’t understand why people have issues with the costume he looks Divine.
Obviously, Steve got a job working as a penciler for Marvel Comics…
Where do you find all these?
Mainly from Linkara’s Atop the Fourth Wall YouTube series. This I remembered from an article off CBR that mentions the issue (Albeit incorrectly. They refer to the issue where he decides to work for Marvel as Captain America #312, but he doesn’t decide to do that until 310. And the panels above are from 311.).
Boy, I hope someone got fired for that blunder.
I just want to know what the Avengers told the world about what happened to Steve. Did they lie and say that he died fighting Thanos? That he retired? They certainly didn’t say that he went into the past to find his long lost love… so where does the general public think he went? In the last Spiderman movie, the MCU had billboards of Tony Stark all over the place, but nothing for Cap? (In related news, I can’t believe this is the hill I’m willing to die on…)
Cap was included in the “in memoriam” piece at the beginning of Far From Home, so between that and the few comments in FATWS, it seems pretty certain to me that they told the world he’d died in the battle. They’re definitely leaving it a bit open-ended in case Evans says “okay, fine” when they drive the next truckful of money up to his house for a cameo.
Somebody that paid better attention should correct me if I’m wrong, but there were several shots of the NYC skyline in that last episode and I didn’t see Stark/Avengers tower anywhere. I mean, I know they moved out of it a while back, but the building’s still there, right? The Netflix Marvel shows did this all the time and it drove me crazy. If you’re not allowed or can’t afford to CG the tower into your shots of the city, then stop showing us so many wide shots of the city where it’s clearly missing.
Were all the shots below 42nd and/or could you see the Metlife building? I wasn’t paying that close attention to the skyline shots.
They were all south of 42nd st
How much do you think Disney would have to pay Sony to get Spider-Man back?
2 billion? 3? Wouldn’t it be worth it? Is Sony just happy to let Marvel/Disney print money for it forever? Does Sony own the merchandising rights?
My headcanon is that Steve is living kind of like Gibbs from NCIS does when he’s not working; he has a normal, modest house, putters around indulging his hobbies, that sort of thing. Thus, he’s not going to just sort of pop up in a story of his own volition, he’ll just hang out doing his thing unless and until somebody comes in to consult with him.I assumed he isn’t supposed to have died, because that’s the one thing that would’ve required an acknowledgement, IMO. It would really play into the calculus of Sam’s decision(s) regarding the shield, which was already complicated.
I just assumed he was living in a retirement home getting sucked off by a bunch of old ladies and watching Jeopardy.
But Sam and Bucky privately talked about how he was “gone”, which sure sounds like dead, rather than “catching up on Grey’s Anatomy in a cottage upstate.”
While the Russo’s disagree, the writers of Endgame say that old Steve came from an alternate timeline to give Sam the shield after living his life with Peggy, he could have just returned to that timeline and that explains his absence as well as Sam and Bucky referring to him in the past tense given that FatWS is set 6 months later.It allows Steve to come back should they pay Chris Evans enough need him to, and presumably also allows Steve to return at any age seeing as he has the tech his entire life.
“he could have just returned to that timeline” – with what? The Time Stone he returned to The Ancient One? His reality-hopping superpowers?
With whatever tech he used to crossover from that timeline in the first place.
I figure that timeline’s Sorcerer Supreme just gave him a shove, but it was a one-way ticket. Maybe? Who knows. Either way, Sam and Bucky sure privately talk and act as though he’s croaked.
Oh, true, it could have been literally magic. The way they were talking about him may have also stemmed from the writers ignorance about what his fate actually was (assuming Marvel has even made up their mind about what that is). So they just wrote him as “gone” whether that meant dead, in another timeline, wearing sweaters in murder mysteries, or on the moon.
Yeah, that’s what I assumed they meant by gone. He wants to give Sam the shield, so he crosses timelines for that, but after he’s done it’s back to banging Peggy with super-soldier stamina.
While the Russo’s disagree, the writers of Endgame say that old Steve came from an alternate timeline to give Sam the shield after living his life with PeggyI believe this is the other way around – the Russos say this, and the writers disagree.
Yeah you’re right, I was sure I agreed with the writers but apparently I’ve either changed my mind or have always actually agreed with the Russos.I understand it’s more poetic to have it as a singular timeline, but it definitely creates more plot holes and confusion with events from previous films, and having Steve come from (and presumably return to) sidesteps most of these issues.
Yeah, it’s weird, because the plot of the entire film would seem to indicate that he had to have lived in an alternate timeline. The entire story hinges on it.
At one point I think the Russos said that it’s canon that Steve lived with Peggy in a separate timeline, that he returned to the prime timeline to give Sam the shield as an old man, then after left back to the timeline with Peggy. So he would be considered gone and not dead.
“I think the Russos said that it’s canon” – it ain’t canon until it’s on screen.
I think one of those signs in the museum states that he “retired.” It will probably end up being the case that he’s hanging out at the Skrulls base (orbit or moon, wherever it is). But considering how they talked about him, it would make more sense if he sort of pulled a Frodo and headed off to rest in some sort of Undying Lands. Captain Marvel probably knows some nice planets.
Could also mean (or be retconned to mean, someday) that he went off into space to meet up with Fury and help out with whatever he’s up to (secret invasion).
He’s building a spaceship in his basement that couldn’t possibly be removed, but is somehow.
I assumed he discretely slipped off to live a Yoda-like existence somewhere, both because he’s done with being a hero and wants to avoid the spotlight, and so Marvel can have an excuse to throw a bajillion dollars at Chris Evans in a few years in order to bring him back as a cameo.
Yeah, that’s kind of the way I was picturing it when they said he was “gone,” especially when coupled with the line about him being on the moon.It could be interpreted several ways, which I’m sure was the intent.
“[Marvel] should know that people are going to ask about this stuff from time to time.”Very true.But, by the same token, I/you/we should know that these movies don’t exist apart from real-world concerns, like rights negotiations, actor availability, and plans for future movies, all of which play a role.
I’m sure no one at Marvel has decided where Steve Rogers is. They want to keep his fate open-ended in case they can get Chris Evans back for more sometime in the distant future.
Idk I mean Spiderman could be in Paris when this happens or it could be after his identity is exposed. Its very easy for another superhero to be busy when this happens. Not to mention they basically zero contact with him and you know.. hes a kid.
And Bucky, at least, probably still has a grudge about Spidey humiliating him and his metal arm that one time.
Using Spiderman may have seemed organic unless he’s off on a class trip to Europe fighting Mysterio or is keeping a low profile because he’s been doxxed.
Tom Holland is probably also on contract for a set number of appearances, and they probably don’t want to lose one for a cameo. Plus, having Spider-man just show up and save the day feels like major deus ex machina. And New York is a big city. What if he was on the other side of town? Parker lives in Queens. That’s like 10 miles from where the attack happened. That’s a good 30-45 minutes travel time.
Yeah, it seems like we were promised that the Disney+ series, unlike the ABC/Netflix/whatever shows, would substantially impact the universe as we know it, but after these first two seasons, the only major thing someone watching only the movies would miss is the introduction of White Vision, and there’s no guarantee even he’ll show up again in any meaningful way. It’s starting to feel like Agents of SHIELD all over again, but with several movie characters as the mains instead of just Coulson.
Spoilers.I’d say the introductions of Valentina, U.S. Agent and Sam as the new Captain America will impact the universe pretty substantially. Especially that last one, considering Mackie will star in Captain America 4. And don’t forget WandaVision gave us Agatha Harkness and Monica Rambeau’s origin story. I’m also sure we’ll see Vision again, given the new one was imbued with the old one’s consciousness and then just flew away. I do worry you’re right that these will become as inconsequential as Agents of SHIELD, but for now I think they’re tying into the films nicely.Also, it sounds like the Netflix shows haven’t been retconned, as Cox, Ritter, Bernthal and D’Onofrio are all rumored to be returning to their roles. Luke Cage and Iron Fist are apparently being recast or forgotten.
Nobody will miss that Iron Fist. Cage was cool, though.
If Luke Cage is canon then Cottonmouth is Blade’s exact doppelganger. But if Daredevil and them are canon then so is Luke Cage. It boggles the mind.
And his sister, Mariah Dillard, is a dead ringer for Miriam Sharpe, the grieving mother who accosts Tony in ‘Civil War’.
They’re actors. A coupla characters got recast too, that doesn’t mean they mysteriously changed appearance.
You’ve taken me too seriously. It really doesn’t boggle the mind.
Ah k.It’s hard to tell, people seem to be really weird about the idea of recasting these days (see: Star Wars).
If Luke Cage is canon then Cottonmouth is Blade’s exact doppelganger. But if Daredevil and them are canon then so is Luke Cage. It boggles the mind. They’ve already re-cast War Machine and Hulk, and Luke Cage also had Mariah played by a woman who played an unrelated character in Civil War (it was a small role, but it came out the same year Luke Cage started). That’s not as big of a hurdle as you might think.
I think they’re going to be canon in the same sense that Incredible Hulk wasn’t entirely not a sequel to Hulk, but they were going to ignore all the parts of it they wanted to ignore. That’s Daredevil. You know him. But things may not have happened exactly as you saw them.
I think the larger point is that we ended Endgame with Steve giving Sam the shield, essentially passing the Captain America mantle, and now in the next movie, Sam will be Captain America. That would make absolute sense to anyone just watching the movies. So like the Netflix shows, even though the D+ shows star the movie actors, there’s nothing substantial that’s missed if you don’t watch the shows. A lot of that obviously depends on how the movies deal with the shows, so it might be a premature concern but I get why people would have it and I think it’s definitely a consideration Disney/Marvel has.Best case scenario, IMO, is that the shows are treated more like side issues. You don’t need to see them, and references to them are kept to a minimum, but they’re there for the interested folks. Disney could obviously go the route of including all that stuff to drive viewers to D+ but I’m not sure if they’re willing to make that gamble out of the gate. Especially not before seeing the impact to the MCU of losing the main core of the Avengers. Might take a movie or two for them to gauge that, especially coming out of the pandemic.
I don’t think this is true; it seems missing these shows equates to missing little pieces of the overall narrative. Like the next time Monica shows up with superpowers, without the Disney+ reference you’re going to be confused. The same applies for the next appearance of White Vision, or Julia Louis-Dreyfus, or Wyatt Russell. Feige has even said himself WandaVision has implications for the Dr. Strange sequel. And that Valentina was meant to be introduced through Black Widow, but COVID forced their hand to introduce her through TFATWS.Maybe I’m being optimistic but now that Feige has control of both the television and film departments it seems like he is enacting some really cool shit.
Well, we’ll find out with the movies, ultimately. If they have White Vision show up with no explanation, there’s a good chance they’ll start confusing or even alienating pretty much everyone who doesn’t have a D+ subscription but still goes to see these movies (China). I’d expect the characters to be pulled in with explanation so there isn’t any confusion as to why they are there, but of course maybe some hints of other stuff/development to drive subs to D+ for those interested. Whether or not that equals the show events having impact on the movies, or the movies simply repurposing those concepts is probably up to interpretation, but clearly there’s such a tight leash on all this that even without the shows any major elements would be showing up in the films anyway. We will have to see what explanations, if any, are given for those concepts.
I’m vaguely remembering Feige saying that “everything” was going to be interconnected in the future, but I really do hope they have some restraint. It’s one thing to expect everyone to have seen the majority of the Marvel movies for something like Endgame to truly land – it’s the culmination of the entire series and all. It’s another for major character and world altering events to happen in, say, a D+ series and then suddenly propagate across the movies.Best case IMO is how they dealt with HYDRA’s takeover of SHIELD. It occurred across both the movie and the show, but the movie was very definitely the prime driver of the story point within the MCEU.Plus, my personal issue… I don’t want to have to watch dozens of hours of movies followed by dozens or hundreds of hours of multiple television series just to understand two hours of ANOTHER movie. I just don’t. If others have the stamina and interest, god bless them.
I absolutely would expect that no Marvel show will be must see for someone who just wants to watch the movies. What I expect is for them to fill in detail and provide added pay off for those who do watch them. I would expect references to be made that viewers of the shows would get, but that would not seem important or would seem merely intriguing to viewers of the movies only.
Were we promised that? I thought they were mostly intended to be extended back story, but anyone who just watched the movies wouldn’t be lost. I willing to be be wrong though, if there are interviews where Feige or someone said otherwise.
Yeah, I don’t know if we were promised anything other than the fact that it was 100% MCU content, unlike Loebverse.
“ It’s starting to feel like Agents of SHIELD all over again, but with several movie characters as the mains instead of just Coulson.”Then that in of itself would be a big difference, as we will be seeing these characters in films with their television stories baked in, unlike Agents of Shield, where no one really existed outside of the show, and usually the most you got was Maria Hill doing a cameo.I would say that WandaVision impacted the universe a decent amount by expanding the definition of magic, which had mostly just been limited to Doctor Strange. Wanda embracing her powers rather than being just a generic long-suffering ingenue who shoots bolts at people significantly opens up the sorcery side of the MCU.Both shows also open a door to Young Avengers, if that happens, while Zemo and US Agent open a door to Thunderbolts, if that happens. Zemo in particular felt shoehorned into the series for that purpose.
I would argue that Wanda’s character is going to be a LOT different going forward.
Yeah I came here to say this. When we see Wanda again, she’s going to be VERY different.
Now that the title and a tiny bit of detail from the Captain Marvel sequel has been revealed, we can add Monica to that list (as Photon, anyway) and Kamala Khan. I think you’re claiming this way, way, way too early, since there haven’t actually been any additional movies after these series yet.
There appears to be a significant change in philosophy between the pre- and post-Disney+ MCU content.Pre-Disney+ TV shows could reference stuff that happened in the movies, but they made it clear that nothing from the TV shows would ever impact the movies, and the movies would never be required viewing to enjoy the TV shows.Post-Disney+, the TV shows have a little more leeway to impact the broader universe, but they have to do this without becoming required viewing for future movies, even though the movies are now required viewing for enjoying the TV shows.Imagine watching either of these Disney+ series without first watching Endgame — it would all be incomprehensible.The dictum from Marvel to the FATWS showrunners was: if someone watches only Endgame and then Captain America 4, they can’t get confused. And so Sam goes through all that, only to wind up about where we assumed he would after watching Endgame. Nobody who buys a ticket to Cap 4 is going to be confused about why Sam is now Cap. Wanda’s power level-up will matter, but since many viewers were already calling her the Scarlet Witch, it’s unclear how essential WandaVision will be to understand future appearances.
This show is a 6-episode set-up for Captain America 4 and little more. Not sure how you got this from that?
Firelord, a herald of Galactus once attacked Spider-Man – (Original Amazing 268-269 and it is still two of the best comics ever) and the Avengers don’t show up until the very end. They handwave it as being in a meeting with their government contact while Firelord is trashing NYC to get to Spidey.A few of the movies have done this. Ant-Man specifically had Pym say NO STARKS! and Far From Home had FurySkrull shoot down all the other suggestions. I think they made ScarJo mouth some exposition in Infinity War as to Lang and Barton.
But for the most part, it’s clumsy and clunky and we just need to move on entirely from it.
Spellman was stupid to think he’d get Spider-Man and anyone who thinks he got done dirty by NOT getting Spider-Man is naive.
Yeah, it always really took me out of the story reading old Marvel comics (when continuity between titles was typically much tighter, e.g. if Wolverine is guest starring in someone else’s book in the November issue, the November issue of X-Men is going to mention that Wolverine isn’t there because he’s off having an adventure with someone else) when they’d take the time to say like “oh the Fantastic Four are in the Negative Zone and the Avengers are fighting Hydra in Europe and that’s why Spider-Man isn’t getting any help in this fight that is very publicly fucking up an entire neighborhood that’s like two blocks over from Avengers Mansion.”
I assume the public thinks Steve Rogers died from the attack on New Avengers Headquarters in New York. I assume Old Man Rogers can live longer than most humans? If he’s not dead, he’s probably off-world on a mission for Fury or Strange.
I really think you guys should give more coverage to The Falcon and the Winter Soldier. I don’t think you’ve written anything about the brands of underwear the actors were wearing yet.
Falcon and the Winter Soldier….brought to you by Under Armor.
Wouldnt Steve be like 100? He probably just went home and died. No big mystery there.
…went home…to the moon…and died. Fixed it for you!
I honestly thought Steve was meant to have died of old age (and the government/Avengers are keeping it low key or something) It was only when I went online that I even thought about the possibility of him being alive.
It could be either, and they could decide at some point to say which, but either way it’s also that at least for now they want to keep open an option for him to return in at least a cameo at some point.
Other heroes that exist just not being around… has always been a thing. Even comic books don’t just include everyone that lives within 50 miles of what’s happening in the specific comic. “A disaster occurred, and these 27 heroes showed up because of course they heard the explosion like everyone else…”
At least in comics it costs a bit of ink and a writer making sure (if they care) that something remains canon. Helps that those characters are all under the same license. Once they get divided up between several studios for movies and TV, it complicates things.
Hell, if things happened how they should, the bad guys would have to be a MAJOR bad guy or just decide that any evil they were attempting is a non-starter if a flock of heroes is just going to stop them dead. “Okay, we figured out the bank that will take the longest for ALL the heroes to show up to… but it is in the middle of nowhere. So, the BFE Nebraska Savings and Loan is it. Everyone cool with $500 a piece? Wait, come back…”
Yes, it is super lame that these big name cameos are off the table for these shows. People are paying their $12+ a month; shouldn’t we be entitled to ONE of these heroes swinging through? A Spider-man cameo in the finale would have made people so hyped up! Same with Dr. Strange appearing in Wandavision’s finale; it would have made sense, but nope!!! No soup for you
Disney+ is $7.99 a month (just increased from $6.99), but I’d pay an extra $5 for a Tom Holland cameo.
I think first and foremost, we have to stop doing this mcu stuff. Yeah, in universe “it would only make sense if…”, but there are real world issues that come into play and quite frankly if you can’t suspension of disbelief the lack of Strange appearing, or whoever, than idn what you’re doing watching these movies/shows with magic powers and super serums. As far as Spidey in particular, why would he get involved? He was always Stark’s protege; Sam and Bucky fought him at an airport in Germany and had no idea who he was, and in IW he ends up in space. They share geography in the Endgame battle but post that the Avengers are basically disbanded by default of Tony, cap, and Nat all being gone. I doubt they swapped numbers with Spidey. Rhodie, if anyone, would make more sense
I thought they kept it “secret” because even the folks who made Endgame disagreed on it – the writers thought Steve stayed behind in an alternative timeline and just borrowed a Pym Particle from Hank Pym or such, while the directors said it was really him in hiding this whole time (I guess he just never left the house or told Peggy that he was frozen in the ice).
I actually think the show works better without leaden memorials to Steve or reminders of his whereabouts. His exit was convoluted enough even when shown the first time. Having him exist on TFATWS as a distant figure the characters struggle to live up to or see as a symbol of a bygone country/a country that never really existed is one of the stronger aspects of the writing.As for wondering why this or that character isn’t around, by this point, anyone who has that complaint would not be watching in the first place. This is a longtime issue even in comics, let alone in films and television where actor contracts/availability carry the day.
“He says Marvel is very strict about how crossovers “have to occur organically””.Spider-Man was busy having sex with Eartha Kitt in an airplane bathroom.
Would have been cool if we saw Steve Rodgers watching Sam’s big speech on TV. He smiles and nods approvingly… then we pull back to reveal he’s in a house on the moon.
I definitely think that if they ever say or show more of him, they’ll go with the moon thing because it retroactively makes those lines funnier.
The Falcon and the Winter Soldier is hardly the most egregious offender. Throughout the Netflix series the Defenders were fighting evil within a few miles of each other and rarely made contact, even after they knew each other existed. It got to the point where, in series 1 of Iron Fist when Claire Temple kept saying how this wasn’t the first time she’d fought the Hand or met people with ‘gifts’, I was screaming through my TV screen at Danny and Colleen, “Seriously? No follow up questions?!”FATWS had Rhodey (even though he wasn’t in War Machine gear) and the Dora Milaje; that’ll do me. More extra superheroes than we got in WandaVision, anyway. For the record, the GRC attack was in Manhattan, while Spider-Man was in Queens, probably on a school night (still a couple of months before Far From Home timeline-wise, I believe). By the time he got there the whole thing would probably have been over.
He’s a friendly NEIGHBORHOOD Spiderman. He’s off stopping muggings and car jackings in the boroughs. He doesn’t have time for dealing with monolithic world trade organization issues in downtown Manhattan.I think the weirder Spiderman issue is that after some of the issues of brining back everyone after 5 years caused a lot of trouble in Wandavision and especially with FaWS, the opening scenes in Far From Home where Peter Parker goes back to high school seems way too light-hearted.
I actually like the contrast. Of course high-schoolers are going to play up the humor when it’s actually world-altering, it wouldn’t be cool to take it seriously.
I sort of assumed that Far From Home takes place after FaWS, or at least at the same time. There was enough time to have Aunt May setup her charity for the bounced and I got the sense school had been back in session for a few months before the trip.
Just like stonks!
The filmmakers behind “Endgame” don’t even agree what happened to Steve.At least one of the Russos has said that he must have ended up in a parallel timeline, then put on the timesuit and travelled through the quantum realm to give Sam the shield, and then gone back.Markus or McFeely (I forget which) has said that Steve somehow (against everything the film tells us) lived out the past in the original timeline, was the previously-unnamed husband that Peggy Carter had, and lived out his life in the main MCU.
Wouldn’t anyone in the current day that knew Peggy Carter now have two sets of memories? Sure didn’t look like her husband was hiding being as he was right in the front window. And she wasn’t a nobody that could just disappear, she was a founder of S.H.I.E.L.D. They could use that to explain away the fact that Sharon Carter is now completely changed cause she made out with a guy who was her Uncle Steve all along and it broke her brain. Assuming she isn’t a Skrull (hey look, Secret Invasion is on the schedule).
I know adventure travel-time is elastic, but some of these battles might have only taken place in, say, 35 minutes total if measured in real time. And, if Strange and Peter are off trying to stop Wanda from tearing up the multiverse, they wouldn’t even be there. Who knows where Rhodey keeps the armor? In his personal home? By the time he became aware that something was happening, got to the armor and flew from his home in suburban Maryland to Manhattan, the whole thing could be over.
Also, Marvel finally released some Eternals footage, sneaked away in some feel good video about going to the movies:
Shutting down any talk of possible crossovers doesn’t sound like letting crossovers “occur organically”
The whole “Why didn’t the Avengers/X-Men/Superman come to help???” is a question that has been asked since comic books started, and I have just never understood why people ask it. Even if Cap and Bucky were fighting on the top of Mount Everest, they have powerful friends who could have reached them in a few minutes. But if every hero was always on speed dial, even the ones who were right down the street, no hero would ever have their own story and everything would be a cross-over.This is just one of the things about these stories I think it is better to accept without questioning it too much. It is a neccessary hand wave to keep the integrity of some of these stories. I just find it amusing that people are willing to accept people who can fly and move stuff with their minds, but worry that X hero from the same city wasn’t called to be part of the action. People can worry about what they want to of course, but it has always struck me as not worth the energy that could be spent enjoying the ride.
Yeah, this universe is connected, but we don’t need to have a scene about why 10 other characters aren’t showing up in every tv show/movie, but patience is key, this is Marvel we are talking about, I highly expect Sam or Bucky to give Peter grief(jokingly) next time they are together on screen about his whereabouts during the flag smasher incident…so it has a chance to come full circle, but that isn’t going to stop some of these one-dimensional thinking neckbeards from believing that they are better writers than the professionals.
those wings on the goggles are horrible.
“He says Marvel is very strict about how crossovers “have to occur organically…””Now that’s funny. The third Captain America was a totally contrived, not organic attempt to bring a bunch of characters together.“…wouldn’t it be pretty organic if bad guys were attacking New York?”Exactly. The Marvel movies are good, but Feige’s contention that there is some kind of crossover purity is pretty rich.
I mean, I think it’s fair to assume Steve went back to the timeline where he was with Peggy and told those he left to just treat it like he died. Also, Spider-man not being involved probably has something to do with the fact that everyone thinks he is a mass murderer and the events just happened without much knowledge before hand if you weren’t actively part of the Flag Smashers investigations.
“No. Stop it.” -The AV Club
Honestly, Marvel should release one movie a month. Not all need to be 200 million $ blockbusters, some can be 150 million $ small and intimate character pieces, but they need to step up massively. There should have been a new Avengers movie (or TV series if you don’t trust the new cast) this year.
And Namor, where’s Namor? There was a water scene…
“He says Marvel is very strict about how crossovers “have to occur organically,””By organically, they mean after much negotiation and corporate synergy planning.