Well, I’ll give them this: it’s a good cliffhanger. “Su’Kal” is getting near the end of Discovery’s third season, which means it’s time for the shit to start getting real; and given that we more or less wasted the last two episodes saying goodbye to a character who will never be relevant again (and wasn’t all that complicated when she was relevant), the shit needs to move fast. So I guess that’s something else nice to say about “Su’Kal;” it moves very fast. By the end of the hour, our heroes have found the cause of the Burn, been separated to the four winds, and, maybe most importantly, have lost Discovery itself to the villainous predations of the Emerald Chain. That’s bad! And also good. It’s just a shame that so many people have to be so stupid to get us there.
It’s hard really to know where to begin with this one. In the broad outlines, I get what the episode is trying to accomplish. Discovery finally tracks down the source of the distress signal; Saru gets to spend some time remembering his culture; there’s a high concept holodeck plot; and Tilly has to hold her own as a captain. Much of this is stuff the show has been laying tracks for all season, and, if you don’t think about it any of it for longer than, say, ten seconds, and if you’re on the emotional wave-length the show is so determined to jam down our throats, I can see it working okay. Not great, but the special effects are nifty, there are a lot of “oohhhh shit” line deliveries, and it’s all pretty darn exciting in a “fuck yeah, the fireworks factory!” kind of way.
It’s just… okay, let’s start small. Roughly half of the episode’s plot deals with Saru, Michael, and Dr. Culber beaming down to a dilithium-rich planet to make contact with a Kelpian survivor from the distress signal Adira uncoded earlier in the season. An early twist has them arriving on scene, only to find themselves changed into different races; we learn later on that this is because a holo-program is trying to protect the survivor from seeing too much of the outside universe. But why does the holo program that changes Michael, Culber, and Saru’s physical appearance get rid of their anti-radiation meds? Were they destroyed? And for that matter, why does the program change their appearance at all? Sure, we get an explanation later that the system was trying to protect Su’Kal, but how does making Michael look like a Trill and Culber look like a Bajoran accomplish this? Worse, why does making Saru, a Kelpian—you know, like Su’Kal—look human make him less of a potential threat? We see Kelpians and humans inside the program. What is it about this particular trio that would’ve upset him?
Nitpicking is not really criticism; it’s just nitpicking. Most genre shows won’t hold up to perfect scrutiny, and that’s fine, because fiction doesn’t have to be real. That’s why it’s called “fiction.” But this is sloppy, and that sloppiness is indicative of a larger disregard of internal logic and consistency throughout the series. Discovery has always played fast and loose with its own rules, in part because it values strong emotional beats over narrative consistency. There are contexts in which that could work, but the show also doesn’t really have anything interesting or useful to express with its emotional beats. It’s just telling us stories we’ve heard a hundred times before, only louder and dumber and with sappy music playing the whole time.
Su’kal is the son of the Kelpian scientist from the distress signal. (We learn from Saru that the marks Tilly mistook for radiation poisoning were actually signs that the scientist was pregnant; it’s weird that he held this information back for as a long as he did.) We don’t get the complete story this week, but we get enough to know the basics—when the scientist realized she would die before Su’kal was able to fend for himself, she left him living inside a holo training program, full of useful Federation goodies and a comforting elderly Kelpian hologram to tell him stories about his past. When Saru and the others arrive, Su’kal is at first nowhere to be seen; and when they do find him, he’s frightened and hostile towards outsiders, because he lacks the emotional development to face the truth of his world.
All of this feels like a riff on half a dozen different original Star Trek episodes, right down to a mysterious monster that is absolutely going to turn into a metaphor for death or something next week. An orphan living inside the ghost of a world he’s never known is a trope, albeit a potentially compelling one, and there are moments when “Su’kal” threatens to actually live up to the expectations it engenders. As mentioned, everything on the planet certainly looks amazing, and while there’s no real justifiable reason for Saru to be out of his make-up, it’s nice that Doug Jones gets to act outside of the latex for a bit. As one of Discovery’s best characters, Saru deserves the modest share of the spotlight he gets here, even if Kelpian culture remains muddled and fairly generic.
But even that gets mucked up. Michael insists on going on the dangerous away team mission to find the stranded Kelpian, and that makes decent sense; she’s no longer Number One, at least. Before she goes, she tells Booker she’s worried about Saru maintaining objectivity, and dear god, to hear Michael say that is just… Remember that time she disobeyed direct orders, ignoring the needs of the crew, and then didn’t really seem to feel that bad about it, even as she basically got exactly what she wanted? Oh, I’m sorry, should I be more specific? Michael is not someone to criticize anyone about losing objectivity, and what’s worse is that the show seems to agree with her.
At one point, Dr. Culber tells Saru that they need to move on with their mission because they’re all slowly dying of radiation poisoning; given that they’re entirely dependent on Discovery for their return, and given that they can only go back when Discovery fixes its shields, this seems like an odd criticism to make. Later, there’s a bizarre moment where Saru asks Michael to stay behind on the planet, and Michael insists that Saru stay inside, because as a Kelpian, he’ll have a better chance to connect with Su’Kal. This is the obvious choice, and given that none of them know what’s actually happening on Discovery, it’s strange that Saru didn’t make it himself. But I guess if he had, we wouldn’t have had a moment where Michael could tell him he was making the wrong call.
Oh, and that’s not even getting into the explanation for the Burn. It turns out it happened because, and I’m not kidding, Su’Kal was angry and yelled about something. The planet he’s living on is rife with dilithium, and somehow, the radiation combined with the dilithium to create some kind of weird genetic super-defect that allowed him to inadvertently blow everything up because he was having a bad day. We may get more information next week—I mean, I hope we do—but this is a disappointing reveal, in the exact way nearly all Discovery’s reveals are disappointing. It takes a galactic crisis and reduces it to the size of a single, troubled individual. For the umpteenth time, everything gets a little smaller, just to ensure our heroes are standing in the middle of it.
While all this is happening, Tilly is running Discovery just as the Emerald Chain shows up to steal the ship. Again, it’s weird how much emphasis the show puts on reassuring Tilly that she’s qualified for her job—a large part of the emotional arc of this storyline is how she handles it when Osyraa starts throwing snark about her qualifications. It sort of makes sense; Tilly is, as we’ve had repeated opportunities to learn, a bit insecure and inexperienced, and Osyraa’s determination to needle that inexperience at least makes sense on basic villain terms. But there’s a directed quality to the attacks that’s absolutely bizarre. Osyraa snipes like she somehow knows (and cares) who Tilly is, less like she’s the ruthless leader of a criminal enterprise, and more like she’s a mean girl trying to get in a few shots on prom night. It feels directed in a way that strains credibility, and is also fairly annoying to watch. We get it: Tilly is competent. This has been clear since the first season. We don’t need a refresher every week.
Of course, the irony of all of this is that it doesn’t matter how effectively hardcore Tilly is at being sarcastic (she literally brings up “projection,” like the most useful way to argue with a villain is to sound like you’re 16 years old). Osyraa simply outguns Discovery, which is still struggling after losing most of its shields earlier in the hour. The bad guys take over the ship, putting a mind control hat on Stamets and spore driving everyone away, a few seconds too before Michael arrives to save the day. Culber, Adira, and Saru are stranded on the planet, trying to manage Su’Kal’s temper tantrum before he somehow destroys the universe again. Like I said, it’s a good cliffhanger. Pity about everything else.
Stray observations
- So what was Culber and Saru’s plan if Adira didn’t show up? They’re dying from radiation poisoning when Michael leaves, but both are determined to stick around because Su’Kal, who screamed at them before running away in terror, needs help. If Adira hadn’t brought additional meds, they both would’ve died in, like, a day (Culber actually makes a point of bringing this up). I’m not sure that would’ve provided the sort of emotional stability Su’Kal seems to need. And it’s especially dumb given that, since they don’t know what’s happening with Osyraa, the radiation sickness is the only time pressure they have to worry about. Why not leave, get treated and come up with a new plan, and then come back?
- Adria and Gray are talking again. I guess it’s sort of interesting that Gray is struggling with his role as a Force ghost.
- “You belong in that chair, Tilly.” Sure? I mean, I wouldn’t have thought she didn’t if people wouldn’t kept bringing it up. (Watching the crew act shocked when Tilly tells Oysraa she’ll blow up Discovery rather than let the Emerald Chain get its hands on the spore drive is pretty funny, though.)
- Oh god, I just realized we’re going to get a “Tilly loses all faith in herself because the ship got stolen” arc next week, aren’t we.
152 Comments
I too rolled my eyes at having Micheal of all people give the lecture on objectivity, but a lot of your other nitpicks can be explained if you paid better attentionthe anti radiation meds aren’t gone, the away team are just being kept from seeing them because they aren’t part of the holo illusion. just like they cant see their uniforms.the reason the characters are changed is to fit with the species seen in the holo programs, I don’t know why being human wasn’t good enough for Hugh or Michael, were there any other humans in the training holos?If the child spent his whole life with the fact that all of the Kelpians died ( and watched them do so and being really familiar with the ones in the holo programs) having Saru pop up as a “new” one might be too disorienting. Although I think it has more to do with keeping the two Kelpian characters visually different so the casual viewer doesn’t mix them up in the dimly lit sets.
I kinda like that this is a “Charlie X” scenario where above all, you have to keep the baby happy lest he destroy the universe, but I hpe they don’t cop out on the solution
You know, Zack. You don’t have to keep doing this.
We appreciate and respect your dedication in writing these reviews but 2020 has been a shit year in so many ways, you don’t need to keep punishing yourself like this.I don’t think the community would be left for wanting if you ended it here.Merry Christmas! and Happy New Year!
Preach! This show is microwaved garbage
Eh, that’s a little harsh. There are issues with storytelling to be sure, and I wish it would do better in that respect, but I wouldn’t call it garbage.
how about breath-takingly beautiful garbage?
No! I demand he watch and recap them all for my amusement!
I certainly wouldn’t blame him! I finally stopped watching a few episodes back, and I really don’t know if I’ll ever pick up the show again.
No no. Zack and the lady over at Geek Den are the only two who seem to understand how empty this thing is underneath all the shiny. I’d swear all the other recap/reviews are paid for by CBS. Really, Zack is channelling some kind of clarity here. You should listen.
“I hate this show, so I rate every episode a B-” is not clarity, it’s weird and petty.
But that’s not what he’s doing. He’s giving a pretty good overview of a course in “How To Write For TV 101.” He breaks down WHY things aren’t working for him. It’s not arbitrary. I only on rare occasions will sub a screenwriting class (I work in a film school), but I wish there were a good way to use these reviews. They’re thoughtful.
Actually the vulture reviews are pretty on point, sometimes even sharper in their crits than Zack.
Agree. Zack is my favorite Discovery reviewer. He knows Michael and Killy are the writer’s biggest weakness – I just wish someone would give them the Season 1 to Season 2 reboot treatment Legends of Tomorrow had.
Turn it into THE OFFICE — WITH SUPERHEROES?I can get behind that….
This response gave me a chuckle
No, I demand he keeps watching the burning skip-fire that is Star Trek: We’ll Discover Decent Writers Eventually. I mean, fuck me, that was a painful episode to try and get my head around. I just thank the merciless internet kittens of the universe that we still have The Expanse to fall back on.
Don’t get mad at Zack because the show is SJW Mary Sue garbage that has nothing to do with the real Star Trek.
are you SURE this isn’t Lower Decks?
That was not good. I think someone’s comment that they thought having two Keplians would make it hard for viewers to tell apart is the only real explanation for why they mixed up species. And a kid destroys all the dilithium in the universe instantly? That sounds really really dumb. The Orions taking over Discovery didn’t bother me but having a Federation ship be taken over has been done to death so I’m not sure how they are going to be able to put a new spin on it next week. I think they really started with the idea “what if they are in the future and there’s no warp any more” and didn’t have the ending planned when they started shooting episodes.
I just figured it was a ‘we don’t have enough time or budget to do all the Kelpian makeup before we need to shoot this’ kind of story point.
I just assumed this was Doug Jones begging the writers to come up with just one episode where he didn’t have to wear all of that makeup.
They were fulfilling Doug Jones’ contract demands.
We didn’t get confused the last time there were two Kelpiens on screen, and Su-Kal and Saru look very little alike.
And a kid destroys all the dilithium in the universe instantly? That sounds really really dumb.To be fair they haven’t really explained it yet. Star Trek has A LOT of ridiculously powerful aliens with cosmic wide powers, we just haven’t really seen any post Voyager. Even Wesley Crusher learns how to warp reality with his mind. As long as they technobabble their way into some weird explanation next week, I’m cool with it.
I can’t say that I really liked this episode as a whole, but the Gary Mitchell/Charlie X/Kevin Uxbridge vibe of Su-kal didn’t really bother me.
I saw her broken body. I went
insane. My hatred exploded. And in an instant of grief… I destroyed
the Husnock.
Why did you try to hide this from all of us? Was it out of guilt for not helping Rishon and the others when they were alive?
No, no, no, no, no, you-you don’t
understand the scope of my crime. I didn’t kill just one Husnock, or a
hundred, or a thousand. I killed them all. All Husnock, everywhere. –
Are 11,000 people worth… 50 billion? Is the love of a woman worth the
destruction of an entire species?
To ensure there’s no Burn 2.0, the Kelpian needs to die. Because even if his unstable mental state is fixed, he’s genetically a danger to the entire Universe, right?
I think he’s only really a danger as long as he’s linked to the dilithium planet. Hopefully getting him off surface fixes that.
Given how long it’s been around as a major plot point, it was always going to come down to “one person (or a relatively small group of people) did something” because then you can deal with it in the way Star Trek handles problems: inspirational speeches. If it was a natural phenomenon or the work of a hundred million people in a faceless bureaucracy, there is no real way to do that. It doesn’t make a lot of sense logistically, but neither do the Q, and we just kind of let that go.
“And for your information, many Orions haven’t been pirates for over five years!” Honestly Lower Decks is the only really good new Star Trek show and it continues to irritate me that AV Club didn’t review it properly.
Lower Decks was real good and I’m real interested in seeing where season 2 goes
It’s a shame that the Lower Decks writing staff isn’t working on Discovery. It’s not just the canon callbacks that make that show good. It’s the competent writing team that understands how to write consistent characters.
My issue with ‘Lower Decks’ is the constant, rapid-fire dialogue and sight gags and never taking a pause to set up or deliver a punchline, with a heaping dose of call-backs and easter eggs. They just throw everything at you at once and hope more sticks than not.I get it, though. If you’re a Rick N’ Morty fan and you’re used to that high-velocity bombardment then Lower Decks is a natural fit but I think most who aren’t RnM converts would find Lower Decks to be the Star Trek equivalent of watching a pacing schizophrenic.If the writers took some pacing cues from DC’s Harley Quinn animated comedy, Lower Decks would be so much better.
It’s not nearly as sugar-high overloaded as Rick and Morty, come on. I’m suddenly reminded of why Lower Decks is a bad fit for the AV Club because this has been the site championing comedies with no jokes in them for at least the last 5 years.
A thousand times yes.
Also, did the Emerald Chain ship jump away with Discovery at the end there? Can discovery extend the spore drive to other ships like that? Was it just because of the tentacles connecting the ships?
As for the “human Saru” angle, I just took it as an opportunity written into the episode for Doug Jones to act in his own skin at least once in the series. I mean, he’s almost always cast in heavy prosthetics. It’s rare to see his actual face, and it kind of felt like a writers’ room favor to him. My two cents, spend ‘em or don’t.
Yeah, Michael. Main character and really, really weak point of the whole series. WTF are they thinking with her? She’s an irresponsible rogue who shouldn’t be in charge of a pet kitten.
The only thing I’ve really enjoyed in this series was that they got Capt. Pike so very right. I just hope they don’t mess up his new series with the same crap they’re doing on Discovery.
At least Emperor Zurg is gone, that’s a plus.
Also theres not enough talk about how her head/neck is never straight. Shes either looking off to the side or her head is tilted. Shes never looking straight ahead during a convo. WHY! I noticed it and it drive me insane. She always does this wierd neck thing during dramatic moments.
Ya know, if they killed her off at the end of this season, the show would improve greatly.
It feels like they’re setting up the opposite – her taking over command of Discovery. Like, Saru is going to take a position with Starfleet or go back to Kaminar because reasons or some other horseshit to get rid of an actually compelling character so we can have more of our Lord and Savior Michael Burnham™ rammed down our throats.She is a goddamn terrible character. Totally unlikable, untrustworthy, undisciplined (ironic given the stupid Vulcan angle they gave her). And the worst thing? She is never, ever wrong. The only “wrong” ever involved with her is in how others are unable to understand or deal with her absolute perfect genius. And when she does objectively the wrong thing, it’s proven later on to have been the right thing all along, because Burnham.Kirk wasn’t always right. Picard wasn’t always right. Spock wasn’t always right. Sisko, Janeway, and Archer weren’t always right. Burnham is always right, and her only flaw is that people just don’t know how to deal with her because she’s on a level so far above everybody else, morally, tactically, and otherwise. It’s tiring.
Saru is being (im sorry for saying this) such a pussy about Kelpians this season. Like they fucking still exist and are a spore jump away and you are risking everyone’s lives for a random one you dont know.
I’m absolutely in agreement about that, and I think that’s one of the things that’s leading me to think that Saru’s a goner at the end of the season, one way or another. And it echoes the emotional beats they tried to drum up with Nhan’s departure, too.It would be so like this show to throw away all of the well-written character growth Saru’s had since taking over the chair by introducing an abrupt, out-of-character turn that negates all of it so he can be sacrificed at the Altar of Burnham.The writers want us to be invested in certain characters but aren’t able to make it feel earned. They wanted us to be invested in Airiam’s death because they heaped a bunch of backstory on us in one episode. They wanted us to be invested in Nhan’s departure because they heaped a bunch of backstory on us in one episode. And that’s leaving aside that they want us to be invested in Burnham yet are incapable of writing her as a character even remotely worthy of rooting for.I’ve said it before and I will continue to say it – if these writers ran Happy Days they would’ve stubbornly kept it Richie-centric even though Fonzie was very clearly the breakout character, the key difference being that at least Richie was likable.
Yeah, why are they writing it like this? I actually think this series could have been good, even with all the same characters, if they had just let Burnham be a science officer, somewhat rebellious and conflicted but hyper competent, while not at the center of every single plot point and certainly not a repeat cosmic messiah. She could have her own season-long or series-long personal arcs, while playing a very important role in – but not being the absolute center of gravity for – big happenings such as the Klingon War, rogue AI stuff, etc. (Of course, those were not very good plots, either, but might have been salvageable).
Doug Jones is in Toronto filming season 4. So, no Captain Burnham yet
That doesn’t preclude them from removing Saru from the chair for whatever reason, whether it’s Vance promoting him to Commodore and putting him in charge of something at SFHQ, going to Kaminar and doing something with the Kelpiens, or who knows what else.I wouldn’t even put it past them to have Saru decide Burnham should be the captain and stepping aside in her favor to be her XO because she’s Space Jesus and all must bend the knee. It wouldn’t make ANY sense plot-wise, character-wise, or story-wise, but that hasn’t stopped them before.Hell, there’s a non-zero chance that Burnham takes over as the head of Starfleet after she solves the Burn and saves the universe because, again, Space Jesus. Then they can put Tilly in the chair permanently and that will make everyone happy!!!
Lmaooo. I always love all the characters (even if they’re shittily written), but you’re not really wrong, man. Both Tilly and Michael are super-fledged Mary Sues and that always puts a burr in the saddle of the audience. I can manage to enjoy myself even in the face of clumsy writing or lame story choices, even if I have to force myself, but yeah- I wish things were more artfully handled. I remember the same criticisms for Rey from MostDefinitelyNotWars, and I wasn’t upset (as a female viewer) bec in that case they were right. Truth be told Rey was Mary Rey all the way. There are a lot of things I like about Discovery and there are a lot of things I wish they would tweak and do better. Eh, maybe next season??
Yeah, it hasn’t been enough to make me stop watching, because so far, there’s enough other stuff to make up for it. But if they keep ratcheting up what they’ve been doing with Burnham and Tilly, that will no longer be the case, especially if it’s done at the expense of characters I actually like.And I don’t dislike Tilly, as such. Dial back the Mary Sue stuff and she has a lot of potential as a character. Burnham, though, is irredeemable.
But I love Space Jesus Michael!
Totally unlikable, untrustworthy, undisciplined (ironic given the stupid Vulcan angle they gave her)
This right here, for someone raised as a disciplined Vulcan form 90% of her life she sure lost all of that rather quickly.
This show devolved really quickly into the same reasons I stopped watching the Flash. Both series can be summed up as “Barry/Michael please don’t do ____.” Barry/Michael “Sorry I just did ____ I ignored EVERYTHING you said would go wrong if I did, but the writers will fix it somehow.”
Nah I wouldnt say that.. they need a maverick but they need to balance the shit out. You ALWAYS need someone to break the rules. What we need is to balance it out more instead of making her slanty neck always right. (i’ll start this acting related slur idc)
If only a cervical collar would fix the character, and the bad bad actress playing her.
Tom Paris was a maverick done right. He had just the right amount of sass, yet never strayed into disrespecting anyone or violating the command structure without a clear and sound purpose, like in ‘30 Days’.
Tom Paris was a dork. Voyager almost completely forgot that he was in prison until the busted him down to ensign after doing something I don’t remember. Then he was such a good boy that they promoted him back to lieutenant even as Harry Kim stood right there on the bridge being a model officer. Ensign Ro was a maverick.
Book could take over the maverick role.
He’d be better at it, and his being that would make a lot more sense.
Can we start a ‘Kill Michael’ movement?
Maybe she went to the David Caruso school of acting.I remember Jay Mohr talking about working with Caruso on Dinner for Five and saying how weird it was that he did that.
And the whispering. SO MUCH WHISPERING
And she has this “dramatic” whisper for every single line she delivers… for fuck’s sake add a couple of registers to your delivery!! It’s so forced in every single scene.Cheers
This was definitely below a “B-” imo
You can see the difference between this and Classic Trek (being every episode before Discovery) in how they have to have three silly/dramatic/emotional scenes between when the landing party says they’re beaming down and when they actually do beam down. The answer to the mystery of The Burn is incredibly stupid, but it was probably incredibly stupid of me to expect a better one. I also still can’t take Ensign Tilly seriously as first officer. The whole time she’s on the bridge I cannot stop myself thinking that anyone else in that room would have made for a more reasonable choice. Other than that, I thought it was fine.
“I also still can’t take Ensign Tilly seriously as first officer. The whole time she’s on the bridge I cannot stop myself thinking that anyone else in that room would have made for a more reasonable choice.”I get that, but I also understand why they (the writers) chose Tilly. If they had chosen a more weathered officer, the entire “X grows up in the captain’s chair” plotline (which we saw hints of in this episode) wouldn’t be doable.Terran Tilly was actually pretty awesome though.
If they had chosen a more weathered officer, the entire “X grows up in the captain’s chair” plotline (which we saw hints of in this episode) wouldn’t be doable.Eh. They’ve already had a plotline of someone growing into command, but Saru isn’t a Mary Sue so I guess they feel like they have to do it again.It was, in my opinion, a missed opportunity to give another character a chance to develop and maybe round out the ensemble. My pick would’ve been Reno, but a) Tig Notaro’s lack of screentime despite being one of the best characters on the show implies to me that she doesn’t want an expanded role and b) from a character perspective Reno might prefer to devote all of her attention to being the chief engineer. But Detmer or Owo would’ve been great based on the too-small moments of focus on them we’ve seen, I think, and they would’ve made more in-universe sense than a totally green ensign who was a cadet a couple of months ago.It just doesn’t feel earned, in terms of what we’ve seen on-screen from the character. She’s greener than grass, has questionable interpersonal skills, and how is an XO that inexperienced going to help a captain who’s brand new to the center seat? The reason Reno stands out to me as a choice is that she has tons of experience, gives no fucks, and has demonstrated absolutely no reticence when offering a conflicting viewpoint, but does it respectfully.
“) Tig Notaro’s lack of screentime despite being one of the best characters on the show implies to me that she doesn’t want an expanded role”I’m not even sure why they bothered to have her in this week’s episode—-she had one whole line and like 10 seconds screentime, lol.
I’m looking forward to the offseason casting announcements where they’ll add a half-dozen new characters for season 4, so that we’ll see even less of that one guy, and fan-favorite woman with the hair.
It seems that pretty much any really interesting character on the show gets their own spinoff after a season.Tig Notaro in “Crotchety Engineer standup comedy hour”Pretty soon we’ll be looking at 8-10 Trek series.
I do wonder who will die in the next couple of episodes. Somehow Adira and their storyline matters, but crew persons who have been with the show since Episode 1 don’t…
I think she only is available for filming for a short time, so since it was on an existing set and it was a single shot they probably were able to use it in an episode where they had her for the full length and put it in as an insert.
Frankly, I can’t stand Tig Notaro in this show. Every single time she speaks we’re clearly supposed to think she’s saying something hilarious, but the writing just does not correspond with that. I had the exact same problem with Michelle Yeoh’s ‘zingers’…
Can’t agree there. The only problem I have with Tig is that she’s had very sparse appearances lately, and today’s news has her Season 4 appearances being limited by COVID.
I can believe Saru went with Tilly, because he’s been inexplicably written to believe she’s the personification of everything great about Starfleet or some bollocks. And it’s not unheard of for someone to be promoted to the boardroom from the mailroom, although it is unorthodox. What strains credulity is that she wouldn’t be given the according rank. If your acting captain has the same rank as the guy cleaning the mess hall, what kind of impression does that give, both internally and externally? And hell, it reveals itself to have been a terrible decision THE VERY FIRST TIME Saru leaves the ship, as Tilly’s goals are completely undermined from minute one when it’s revealed the green lady knows she’s not actually a first officer.
The big problem is, she has exactly zero command experience, and a first officer really needs to have those skills at the ready.
“ three silly/dramatic/emotional scenes between when the landing party says they’re beaming down and when they actually do beam down.” YES. The scene with Stamets in Engineering begging Culber not to go was just embarrassing. For starters, it’s an away mission to collect a single person from a spaceship that has a lot of radiation in it – on paper, that’s a five minute job (it’s arguably one that doesn’t even require an away mission AT ALL, if this show remembered how transporters worked). But on top of that, you’re both CAREER NAVAL OFFICERS WHO LIVE FULL-TIME ON A SPACESHIP, it’s absurd to think it would even be a conversation to begin with. Of course one of you is gonna go on dangerous missions from time to time, it goes with the territory! And to add insult to injury, they’re gonna have this personal conversation during the work day, in front of their colleagues (and end it with a pair of big sloppy smooches like total professionals…), rather than, I dunno, later in your quarters like actual human beings??? It boggles the mind how poorly written this show is.
Yeah, I gave up on this series after about ten episodes, for many of the criticisms in this review. It is highly derivative (I tapped out when they did the mirror universe thing for the 100’s time). The show it actually reminds me if the most is Scott Bakula’s Enterprise..and most people would not think that was a good comparison. The faux-”diversity” of the cast was not enough to overcome its weaknesses.However, in comparison, “Picard” is highly entertaining and tells a brand new story with old characters very well. There is some deus ex machina plots, but there is just enough nostalgia and call backs to make it fun without drowning in them. If you pick one CBS Star Trek show, pick that one.
How about don’t pick either CBS dumpster fire and treat yourself to “The Expanse”.
As a Trek fan, it pains me to say this, but you are absolutely right. The Expanse is far superior to anything in sci-fi tv right now. Although if we must remain in the Trekverse, I think Lower Decks is a LOT of fun.
Osyraa: “Get out of that chair.”Tilly: “You’ll have to kill me first!”(gets shoved out of chair rather easily)
Osyrra: “You’re sitting outside of this weird Nebula? And your Captain is gone?”Tilly: “I’m the captain now!”Osyrra: “Is your captain…inside the nebula, maybe?”Tilly: “Who told you?!?”(I thought that whole dramatic exchange was pretty silly, because duh)
The whole thing didn’t make much sense—-if Osyraa was able to beam people onto Discovery at any time (I guess because the shields were down for recharging), why didn’t she do it whilst Tilly was distracted with taunting the first time?Also, how stupid would you have to be to not realize with no shields that anybody can beam onboard at any time?
Disco is waiting for its shields to recharge – so they’re not at 0%, they’re just weakened. And then both ships spend a bunch of time sitting there yelling at each other, while cloaked, for some reason? Do they have shields during that? And then the mini-burn knocks out their cloaks, and I guess their shields too, and so that’s why Osyrra attacks?But I still remember in the first season (I think it was right after they jumped back from the mirror universe) that the Admiral and her admiralsquad beamed onto the bridge, even though the shields were up. And the show could have used 1 line of dialogue to explain it (prefix codes, or admiralty override…), but it didn’t.So yeah, this show has never been interesting in making much sense.
“Do they have shields during that?”I mean, I suppose it is possible in the 30th Century that they have the ability to have shields when cloaked, but at least canonically, it has never been possible in the 23rd-24th century to have cloak and shields at the same time.
Well, except for the Scimitar in Nemesis, but I never like referencing that movie given the many other inconsistencies in it.“Disco is waiting for its shields to recharge – so they’re not at 0%, they’re just weakened.”So, if they could beam through the shields at any time, why didn’t Osyraa just do that the moment they made contact?
I was expecting a blast to her messy head (her hair keeps changing between scenes, it seemed).
Traditionally, Discovery gets a new captain every season. It feels like they’re setting up a Tilly-Saru swap, hence all the forced “Saru is emotionally compromised!” stuff that has been crammed in here at the end. So Tilly has a crisis moment and comes through, Saru realizes his emotions were getting the better of him, and then we switch. But like with Georgiou’s sudden status as the beloved heart of the crew, it doesn’t really feel earned, especially given it’s Michael who suddenly seems to think he’s unfit for the job for being too emotional, a one-two punch of complete, nearly instantaneous reversals of her established positions.
Ugh, I really hope Burnham isn’t made captain. Of all the choices, going with the one who just does whatever she wants (not to mention being convicted of mutiny) would be the worst one.The only way Tilly makes sense as captain is if Terran Tilly swapped places with prime universe Tilly.Oh, wait, maybe Burnham SHOULD be made captain—-its hard to mutiny when you are captain.
It’s wildly early to be making predictions like this, but if I had to guess, Burnham ends up captain either in the final season or the series finale.
Years of this shit. You need to stop reviewing this show because you obviously both don’t like it and are one of the whiniest people I’ve ever seen online. Do you need a friend for Christmas, Zack?
I’d say they made Saru human for the best possible reason: because after most of three seasons, Doug Jones has earned a couple of weeks of call times that don’t require going through however many hours of prosthetic work fist. Let the guy have a working vacation!
Which would have made sense had The Kid not been Kelpian. As it is, it’s stupid.
I’m usually not someone that cares about overly expository dialogue but holy cow at least 1/2 of the dialogue in this episode was characters making painfully obvious observations. I really wish this show had better writers because I love Trek.
Wasn’t Nicholas Meyer supposed to be head writer when the show started? Did he leave with Bryan Fuller?
I still dream of how awesome a Fuller/Meyer Star Trek could have been.
I thought he was supposed to be an EP but not directly involved in the writing/showrunning process. I could be wrong, however.
His name is not listed in the opening credits.
I looked it up, and he was involved in S1, though as a member of the writing team, not as an EP. They didn’t invite him back for S2 or 3.
Hopefully, Su’Kal’s “mini-burn” was just that. Perhaps he just partially tapped into what actually happened. As you, and others, have said, it would be very anti-climatic to have some stranded child be the reason for such a huge event.
I’m an easy touch for Discovery, but this was dire. We didn’t need what felt like dozens of OH DAMN CLAPBACK KWEEN reaction shots to Tilly’s bantering, and we definitely didn’t need the away team to recount the entire story 2/3 of the way through. And I just can’t get into the puppy dog teenagers stumbling through their feelings the same way over and over, but that’s mostly because the writers haven’t done anything interesting with them since they were introduced.
Heh. I can hear the editors saying, “Yep, that turned out to be too long a way to go for THAT joke. Well, that’s why we shoot reaction shots, even though we hope not to need them.” Presumably they’re keeping camp Linus in reserve.
“You belong in that chair, Tilly.” Sure?
I mean, you were a cadet two seasons ago and you still Massively lack leadership and social skills absolutely vital for the job, but…… Uh… you’re Michael’s best friend for… some reason and with Michael being the only person that matters in this universe…
And it’s more than just being two seasons ago. In-universe it’s been what, a few weeks? A couple of months?She’s a Mary Sue, plain and simple, and the writers have really leaned into that, to the show’s detriment. It was more tolerable early on, when she was just presented as a very smart but awkward young officer who clearly had a lot of potential and contributed beyond what someone with her experience level would normally be expected to. Annoying, but fine, whatever.But this? It’s ridiculous. As you note, she has no leadership or interpersonal skills, and the fact that she’s fresh out of the academy means that she can’t realistically fill one of the most vital roles of an XO – to present alternative strategies and viewpoints to the commanding officer. And to present her as someone capable of commanding a starship weeks or months after graduating from the academy strains credulity in much the same way as Burnham being a horrendously insubordinate, undisciplined part of the crew (if you can call her that, because she’s only part of the crew when it suits her) and always getting away with it.
Osyraa not blowing out insolent Tilly’s brains was perplexing. Why would she even need her? All she needs is Stamets, and how did she know Stamets was necessary for the Spore Drive? Really sloppy writing.
God, could you imagine if this show fucking swerved and had her just flat out murder Tilly, in cold blood on the damn bridge?
someone capable of commanding a starship weeks or months after graduating from the academyIt’s apparently how Starfleet does it these days. One or two acts of heroism, and you’re allowed to skip the complete chain of command.
I thought of Pine!Kirk, too. So utterly and completely preposterous, though it fit in with the (utterly and completely preposterous) oeuvre of the Abramsverse.
Gods, that made me angry when they let Kirk do that!What is wrong with most of the writers that they can’t understand basic Chain of Command?
I always remember the last line of dialogue Tom Hanks had during Saving Private Ryan, “Earn this. Earn it.” So true of life’s chances.
Using the term Mary Sue can get you banded at Gawker.
Agreed with the review totally, so I was surprised at the generous grade. Definitely should’ve been lower than B-.Also, why does the rescue team get to beam down but then has to be rescued by shuttle by Booker? Radiation levels? Why couldn’t they beam them back up? Was it all just to build a bigger cliffhanger? I might’ve missed this in the convoluted plot, to be fair.
Discovery had to jump away from the planet because their shields were failing as soon as they showed up to drop off the away team.
Saru fucked up this week royally1. Im pretty sure the kid finding out that those two were very real and die a gruesome death wouldnt help him NOT cause another burn. 2. Saru is being a tool about kelpians is wierd to me.. Like they still fucking exist bro you can spore drive to the planet whenever. If it was his sisters grandchild maybe Id get it but like hes acting like Michael over random keplians (and sometimes a hologram singing a lullaby).
Had it been previously established that Kelpians really, really like kelp? That reminds me of the sheepish president of the Federation from ds9’s Homefront being a Grazerite.
…I just keep thinking about how silly it is. Saru’s speech in this episode is like giving Worf multiple, emotional monologues about how he spent his youth clinging on to things.
Anyone know what the status of the Treaty of Algeron (preventing federation cloaking devices) is supposed to be in post-romulan-supernova trek? It makes sense that it would be long gone by 3200, but now I’m wondering about the Lower Decks or Picard timeframe.(this episode might have had the most pointless use of cloaks ever, though)
I think there’s a reference in this season to the Romulans just plain joining the Federation sometime between their supernova and the Burn. That would probably moot the treaty.But yeah, I absolutely hated “We can cloak since the refit, right?” Oh how convenient!!
That was actually one of the things that bothered me the least. I think we all know the Treaty of Algeron was one of the stupidest moves the Federation ever made (Team Pressman forever), and if there’s no Romulan Empire anymore, the treaty should be null and void. Also, given the status of the Federation by 3200, who’s following rules anymore?
The cloaking added so little to this episode I feel like “we have a cloaking device now, right?” had to be a Chekov’s Gun for one of the follow-up episodes (which I haven’t seen yet, so don’t spoil anything!)
Goodness, the writing on this show cant help but underserve its (actually talented) cast. There can be no blame placed elsewhere, and this episode is proof of it. Wiseman is actually fun as the captain and it would be great if that made sense. Jones is a great emoter but he has to react to this ridiculous shit. Even yes, Martin-Greene has been working really hard this season but everything that has been happening is just. so. dumb.I will hand it to the writers for not connecting Michael directly to the Burn, but honestly there’s time left in this season and i’m not 100% certain it’s not still going to happen in some way.
I mean on the one hand it’s a little disappointing, but on the other hand given that TNG had one dude genocide an entire race of aliens in a moment of rage with his brain it’s not unprecedented that galactic level disasters based on one person having a bad day is a thing that could happen in the Trekverse.
While I’ve actually been pretty ok with the season so far, not ‘great’, but not hate-fest worthy either -Do wish the writing pulled it together more, but tons of NextGen episodes were hardly any better, and DISCO is still more interesting than Voyager ever got.- that said, I really thought this ep was so awful I had to hit pause several times to shake it off before I could finish it, and came to read a savage tear-down by Zack… who it turns out, was remarkably generous with this episode. Disappointed by a Zack review again. SMH. :-PSo on the subject of foreshadowing painted with a sector wide brush: given that Osyraa seems to have suspiciously detailed info on Discovery, including exact location, profile on Tilley, and knowledge of Stamets being the key to the spore drive… someone in Starfleet is obviously in league with the emerald chain. As our acquaintance with future Starfleet personnel is limited to, oh say, one admiral, next week I assume we get the final trifecta of star trek tropes: Mirror Universe, Trapped in a Holodeck Simulation, and… The Evil Admiral.I blame this on everyone who complained ‘the show is not real trek’…
Oh christ, you’re totally right. They haven’t even tried to hide it, the admiral’s been a total dickhole since minute one. God, I hate this show so much.
OR his assistant?
I enjoy this show a lot and have spent a lot of words defending it, but your very logical analysis of why there must be a Starfleet mole just tells me you’ve put more thought into these storylines than the writers have.
I’m not letting you kill my buzz, this was a fantastic episode, one of the best “part 1″ Trek cliffhangers in decades. If you’re fixated on stuff like “why did Saru have to pretend to be human when the program has plenty of Kelpians and btw no Bajorans in sight”, or “a kid with deuterium radiation infused DNA having a temper tantrum as the source of the burn is beyond ridiculous”, then you’re not exactly wrong, but you’re missing the forest for the trees. No one complains watching Spiderman how ludicrous it is that a radioactive spider would give someone it bites superpowers. These are fictions that set up the story, they’re not the story. If you can’t suspend disbelief then I don’t know why you’re watching sci-fi. Stories are about characters, conflict, dramatic tension and cathartic resolution. The ticking clocks are set up beautifully in this episode, and the pacing is as good as it’s been all series—which is in contrast I’d say to the episode from season 2 where they rescue Culber from sporeville, they set up the ticking clock but then loligagged around with panic-inducing lack of urgency. The Emerald Syndicate threat that’s been built up throughout the season is paid off really well, with a truly threatening and interesting villain. Saru’s mis-steps as Captain and the questionable choice of Tilly as #1 are also paid off to some extent. Tilly’s strained visage of confidence, but which overlays actual competence, feels like a very natural progression of her character, dating back to when she impersonated Captain Killy in the mirror-verse. Burnham’s recovery from being a lost lone wolf towards being Starfleet command material is another season-long arc that feels like it’s starting to come together. All in all this just felt incredibly coherent with the rest of the season, in a way that isn’t always the case. And it sets up an awesome “how they hell are they going to get out of this jam” problem that I think is Star Trek adventure at it’s absolute finest.I’m thinking Best of Both Worlds part I, or Wrath of Khan, they both kick their characters into what seems like an impossible hole. Our beloved captain is converted into a borg on an enemy ship that the Enterprise is forced to destroy. Kirk is isolated in the core of a planet with no hope of rescue. Even when the resolution comes laughably easy (“days meant hours!”), it doesn’t ruin the suspense of the journey, or the catharsis of resolution and retribution against a worthy villain.
I believe you’re referring to the Superman Fallacy. There are certain foundational elements in a sci fi story that you need to accept to be able to watch it. But just because you accept one unrealistic element doesn’t mean that you have to accept every other one they throw at you.Superman is an alien who gets super powers from Earth’s yellow sun. If you can’t accept this, then you can’t accept any Superman story. However, there are other less fantastic elements of Superman that you have to accept as well. Superman works at a newspaper. Superman lived in Kansas as a child. Superman’s world obeys the same laws of physics as ours.At the end of the first Superman movie, he flies around the earth so fast that he reverses its rotation, and consequently time moves backwards on Earth. Just because you accepted the fantastic notion that a yellow sun would give Superman super powers doesn’t mean that you have to accept another fantastic notion, especially if it conflicts with other ordinary notions that you’ve accepted as part of this fictional universe.
Yeah, but we also accept that Superman can turn back time by spinning the earth around because he’s Superman and that’s the kind of story a Superman story is. It’s not about somebody struggling against limitations, it’s about someone wronging rights in an unrealistic but satisfying way.So if you can’t buy into childlike aliens with Godlike powers, or military officers getting to ignore protocol right and left because their name’s in the credits, and storylines built on far-fetched technological nonsense, then maybe Star Trek just isn’t for you, because that’s how Trek’s storytelling has always worked.
I think you’re conflating far-fetched premises with bad writing.Consider the examples:1. Childlike aliens with godlike powers. I assume you’re referring to Trelane from The Squire of Gothos. This episode raises the question of whether physically and mentally advanced species are also ethically advanced.2. Spider-man is bitten by a radioactive spider and gains great power. With that power comes great responsibility.3. Superman is an alien who gets super powers from Earth’s yellow sun. What does this premise set up? A super-powered being who can do anything he wants, but chooses to do good.These three far-fetched premises were all created to examine morality in an abstract way. They are also the central metaphor of the characters (or episode) in question. Good sci-fi uses the unrealistic premise to examine real world issues. This is the central aspect of Trek’s storytelling that set it apart from most other shows on TV. This is what is missing in new Trek.A. Saru appears as a human. B. A kid with radiation infused DNA has a temper tantrum and causes the burn. C. Superman flies so fast around the Earth that he turns time backwards.There are no thematic reasons for any of these things to happen. They are just as silly as the central metaphors, but aren’t being used with a purpose. This is what the Superman Fallacy is about. Certain foundational aspects of a story can be ridiculous, but they are accepted because they have metaphoric resonance. Something like kryptonite is also logically acceptable, because it’s tied in with the central metaphor. Turning time backwards has nothing to do with Superman’s powers. It’s just a lapse in logic from the established world, or bad writing.The Superman fallacy isn’t even necessarily a judgement of quality. The thing is, turning the Earth backwards works better than A and B, because at least it’s dramatically motivated. It makes sense that Superman wants to reverse time no matter how he does it. How does Saru looking like a human make any sense? Does Suk’al’s anger have any greater thematic (or frankly dramatic) worth that a lazy plot contrivance? (Reminds me of the TNG episode The Survivors, where a godlike being destroys an entire species on purpose and can’t forgive himself. Now that’s a good example of this premise. Much better than “Woops!”)
The bridge crew on this show looks back and forth at each other so much, I wonder if they’re going to love it or list it.Seriously though, just make this about Saru and be done with it.
OMG, I just snorted water and sprayed it all over my keyboard at the “Love It or List It” comment. Thanks for that.
Delighted to find an HGTV reference in the comments of a Star Trek review!
Yes, this was indeed sloppy. None of the holodeck stuff made sense or was logical. Plus we got the trope of the fate of the Universe rests on one person/entity… C’mon, again? And why don’t Osyraa’s minions come in shooting everyone, like terrorists would? That she didn’t immediately kill Tilly was absurd.
Doug Jones sure lit it up when given the chance.But that was mostly crap. Tilly is not competent. The admiral was right to have that “are you fucking kidding me?” look.The burn thing turned out to be a disappointment
And the admiral would 100% be able to veto that sort of crewing decision. And in a normal universe, he would have done so. But not here, because this is the funhouse mirror universe and it’s dumb all the way down.
1. Not enough Grudge.2. I’m presuming the solution to this Kelp-child has something to do with Space Baby Shark.
Overall I liked this episode even though I agree with a lot of other comments on here regarding the issues. All I would have wanted was the plot to not include Su’kal as in any way related to the Burn. Causing a bit of a something-kind of energy wave in a moment of pathos is fine. Being THE cause of the entire Burn is not. That is a very weak explanation and I want these writers to do better. The episode was more than sufficient enough in plot and impact (for me) without that element being added in. As usual, the writers can’t help themselves from the desperate need to try do too much. I just don’t like Su’kal having any connection to the Burn, the episode was sincerely compelling enough to me without that, and I just wish they stopped short of including that.As to the logic of it, I’m puzzled. Are we to assume that Sukal somehow created a ginormous energy wave in a previous emotional outburst that covered vast light-year distances at once??? Come on. Even in made up fictional universes, I’m not going to be able to accept that. A little made-up techno-babble goes a long way with me, and depending how they try to explain it later I may feel slightly more relaxed towards it as a plot point, but I doubt I’ll fully approve. Su’kal should have been his own character with an independent purpose to the Burn, and (I was hoping to find) something a little more revelatory or complicated as to it’s cause eventually shown, and I can see I’m not alone in that.
Why does this show get covered while the vastly superior Expanse gets no coverage? Last week’s Expanse episode was one of the greatest sci-fi television episodes in history
I’m wondering if dilithium is some kind of living being seeing as it seems to be impossible to synthesize and something like the burn can happen.
Heh. I said from the get-go that the whole Burn thing didn’t make any sense. But the fact that they came up with such a ridiculous explanation really underwhelms my already low expectations.
This site devotes time to review this POS show while staying mum about
how The Expanse just made every scifi/fantasy show of the last 20 years
look like amateurs.
Tried watching that, but it bored me to death
Gee, golly, gosh, gloriosky! Ensign Mary-Sue fucked up? Never mind, Tilly, you’ll get a redemption arc next episode and no doubt we’ll get a “Michael blubbing again” scene.
The Burn being caused by someone shouting their feelings intensely is so *amazingly* consistent with this show that I don’t know whether to applaud or laugh.
I think this episode deserves an A on the sole basis of seeing the real Doug Jones.
Mind control hat and making Tilly fail as captain. I didn’t like this episode at all. I wanted hope.
Since when can people transport in when the shields are up. This SJW Mary Sue Star Trek Discovery sucks.
Tilly is turning out to be a legendary captain. Spock singlehandedly steals the Enterprise to deliver Pike to Talos IV. Picard nearly loses his Enterprise to a freaking videogame because Riker was horny on Risa, Sisko does lose control of the Defiant to the Dominion on it’s first trip into the Gamma Quadrant and only made it back because of the good graces of the Founders in their infinite wisdom, Janeway loses Voyager to the Kazon, a species so inept that the Borg don’t consider them worthy of assimilation. Its basically a right of passage to lose you ship if you are a great captain.Also baby Kelpian’s causing The Burn has very strong early TNG energy in it. It being an accident is far more satisfying that being a Federation conspiracy or someone’s doomsday weapon. People clamoring for a return to they story telling of the TNG era should be plenty happy by this revelation.
And at least Tilly loses the ship to the Federation’s most feared threat, and not, as you said, a videogame.
I simply hated this episode. I fought to finish it because I found the story and pacing of the plot incredibly aggravating. It seems like they dumped there entire special effects budget into this episode. The monster looked cool… the only thing I like about it. I’ll stop bitching. Had to vent. I may just listen to The Greatest Generation podcast and skip watching the last eps.
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Well that was just dire.
Can someone explain to me why Booker didn’t just beam all four of them – Michael, Dr Teeth, Saru and the Kelpian – onto his wee ship immediately when he was within range? If they were worried about the Kelpian doing another Burn, they could just immediately sedate him.
This might well have been the worst episode of the show so far for me. I’ve been a defender of Saru for a good few weeks but if you’re the captain of a starship on a time-sensitive away mission and A COMPUTER PROGRAMME asks you if you want to listen to a lullaby, if you don’t say “No thanks” IMMEDIATELY, you should be removed from command.
“It turns out it happened because, and I’m not kidding, Su’Kal was angry and yelled about something.”It is heavily implied that Su’Kal’s outburst which caused the Burn was when his mother died, leaving him alone (except for the holograms) – definitely not just “something”. But that would require paying attention to the episode, which I have given up on expecting this reviewer to do for this show.
I’ve just caught up today on the last 4 episodes of this.
My mind is blown. In a bad way.
Not recommended.
It was honestly so funny how pointed the comments were about Tilly. Like someone gave the green woman an info sheet like “ok if you see this one, tell her she smells bad and can’t be a leader, it’s part of her arc”
Take a shot every time someone hugs
I’m confused that the program wanted to be helpful in like, oh let’s disguise these people as not to scare the baby, but that’s…the only helpful thing it seems to do beyond the actions of the holo characters? It couldn’t like, turn off the scary monster?
That cause of the Burn reveal was terrible. Baby’s got a temper? Really? This season is just horrendous, It’s a shame because I enjoyed the first two seasons but I’m considering bailing after this one, life is too short for this nonsense.
Saru appears as Human so we can see Doug Jones without prosthetics, a rarity, and he still nails the alien-ness.Like you said. Fiction. Nitpicking. From a review or so back, fanservice is not inherently bad. Chill, dude.