We still haven’t seen Patty Jenkins’ Wonder Woman 1984, but her and star Gal Gadot are already preparing to team up again for another project. According to Deadline, Paramount has won the rights to a new Cleopatra movie from Jenkins that is being billed as an “epic” historical drama with a possibility for a “big female empowerment” angle given the women-led creative team (the project will be written by Laeta Kalogridis, whose credits include Shutter Island, Alita: Battle Angel, and… some other things we don’t have to mention, even if one of them does seem relevant here).
The idea for this project apparently came from Gadot herself and was fleshed out and pitched in a series of Zoom meetings, and Paramount apparently won because of a desperation to put together a big tentpole movie “as quickly as possible.” There’s no word on how/if this relates to any other films from Hollywood’s long history with Cleopatra, but Deadline does note that Sony and producer Amy Pascal have been developing a Cleopatra movie for years with directors like David Fincher and James Cameron being floated alongside potential stars like Angelina Jolie and Lady Gaga. Given the “as quickly as possible” talk, it sounds like Paramount’s going to try and get this in theaters before whatever Sony’s doing, assuming theaters still exist whenever this can safely be made. If this can ever safely be made. Everything after, say, early November seems like a big question mark.
Anyway, if you don’t already know the same basic premise of Cleopatra’s story, we suggest checking out a history book. She was pretty famous.
177 Comments
An Israeli playing an Egyptian. Nothing problematic there at all.
Actually, it will be an Israeli playing a Greek – and if I
remember correctly, the first Ptolemaic ruler who bothered to learn the
local language.
This is going to be fun like this Gizmodo story a couple of years ago that had people in the comments saying rural 13th century Poland was super diverse and more cosmopolitanism than 1990s Hong Kong or todays London.
I remember that… my head still hurts.
Honestly, I sometimes think the best approach to the I’m-imposing-my-American-ignorance-on-the-rest-of-the-world brand of wokeness is to just run with it all the way into the wall that it’s ultimately headed towards. Complain about the lack of indigenous American representation in the latest take on Robin Hood. Ask where all the black people are in a film set in Han Dynasty China. Demand that Lord Mountbatten, as a ruler of India, be played by an Indian actor. Iraq is in Asia, so why were no Asians cast in this film about the Iraq War?
Which would probably make them actually less closely related to an Israeli Jew than if they were ethnic Egyptians.
So, just like Wonder Woman!
Egypt can’t stay mad. Not at that face.
It’s not like Alison Brie is playing Cleopatra.
[EDIT]…
Actually Cleopatra was Greek. The Ptolemy’s had been inbreeding for generations by the time she was born. In fact, her parents were cousins IIRC. She was however, the first and only Ptolemaic ruler to bother to learn speak Egyptian.
Yes, but the amount of inbreeding is overrsatated. Ptolemy V was the first born of a sibling marriage, and he married a Seleucid, a very distant cousin. The line was interrupted sufficiently over the 250 or so years that they didn’t go full Hapsburg, so to speak.
The Habsburgs married outside their dynasty as well, and more often than the Ptolemies. They famously built most of their realm through fortuitous dynastic marriages (“Bella gerant alii, tu felix Austria nube.”), though those same ties also ended up being used against them on more than one occasion. Habsburg inbreeding was meant to prevent just that and deprive other ruling houses of claims to their lands, though it didn’t work out too well (see the Wars of Devolution, Spanish Succession and Austrian Succession). They cooled it with that shit after the French Revolution, when dynastic inheritance went out of fashion and there was no threat of losing Bohemia to some distant relative in Bavaria or whatever. And they certainly never practiced sibling marriage, which I don’t need to tell you was never an option for Catholics.
The Ptolemies, by contrast, never had to consider the opportunities and dangers of dynastic inheritance, but still went all Cersei and Jaime any chance they got. Perhaps they practiced sibling marriage to appeal to the religious beliefs of both the indigenous and Greek populations of Egypt (Osiris and Zeus both married their sister) and legitimize their claims to divinity. Perhaps they did it to separate their family from the rest of society and the power struggles that would come from outsiders marrying into the royal family. Perhaps they were simply fucked up the same way you’d expect any other isolated, incestuous clan to be.
Octavia Spencer was busy?
Historically I think an Israeli playing a Themyscirian is much more objectionable.
Honestly I’m just offended that someone who openly supports an oppressive apartheid state is still getting work.
Oh, she doesn’t properly cheer when Israelis are killed by Hamas, so you’re offended?
Honestly I’m just offended that someone who openly supports an oppressive apartheid state is still getting work.This, right here.Though, right-wing propagandists will likely be funding this like they did her other films.
Honestly I’m just offended that someone who openly supports an oppressive apartheid state is still getting work.
A) If you are referring to Israel, that list of supporters includes not only people in Hollywood, but also in the US government and business.B) If you are referring to China, see item AC) If you are referring to India, see item A and BYou are not wrong to be offended, of course, but Gadot is far from an anomaly.
Yeah. everyone knows that Scotsmen make the best Egyptians
You’re missing the point here, people: what are they going to do about the goiter?
So only a very narrow genetic difference, then, as Jews and Egyptians are from the same broad group and from very close regions (you have to drive the same distance between Cairo and Jerusalem and Naples and Milan, and it’s a much straighter shot in Italy).
“So only a very narrow genetic difference, then, as Jews and Egyptians are from the same broad group and from very close regions (you have to drive the same distance between Cairo and Jerusalem and Naples and Milan, and it’s a much straighter shot in Italy).”Gal Gadot’s family is from Germany/Poland. Until 1985 their name was Greenstein, when they changed it to a made-up “ethnic” sounding name. Her mother’s maiden name was Weiss.Berlin to Cairo is quite a long drive.
They de-Germanified their name in moving to Israel, a common trend at the time (Rabin was born with the incredibly stereotypical name “Rabinovich”). On top of that, Jews were required to take Germanic surnames rather than ones they more identified with (or keep using patronymics). Face it: she’s both Levantine in birth and breeding, with the only argument against that being the widely discredited (by genetic markers and basic history) and antisemitic Khazar theory.
“They de-Germanified their name in moving to Israel”Mr. and Mrs. Greenstein, her parents, were both born in Israel. Her family is of German-Polish heritage. Renaming themselves doesn’t change their DNA anymore than when the Trumps changed their name.Pretending white people aren’t white to hand them some claim on ethnicity and territory is some classic European Colonial Imperialist bullshit.Again, Berlin to Cairo is quite a long drive.
There is extensive genetic evidence that Ashkenazi Jews having spent some time in Europe didn’t change their ethnicity any more than my week in Pittsburgh made me Iroquois. As I noted, the only people who dispute that are adherents of the Khazar theory trying to hold on to the Nazi idea of Jews as cultural raiders with no claim to their own history and culture.
“There is extensive genetic evidence that [blah blah blah]”There’s quite a bit of Zionist propaganda trying to gaslight and create a narrative where Europeans stealing land in Palestine is okeydokey. Dr Ostr, though, won’t allow review of his data unless he gets a guarantee that the “research will not defame Jews” (wtf?! Yeah.) which means only other Zionists get to see his data. That’s some faux-scientific bullshit.As the editor of the Journal of the American Medical Association put it: “allowing scientists access to data only if their research will not defame Jews is “peculiar”… what he does is set himself up for criticism: Wait a minute. What’s this guy trying to hide?”I LOVE how you’re comparing a week in Pittsburgh to over 2000 years in Europe. I mean, Pittsburgh can suck so a week might feel like forever, but still.
“There is extensive genetic evidence that [blah blah blah]”There’s quite a bit of Zionist propaganda trying to gaslight and create a narrative where Europeans stealing land in Palestine is okeydokey. Dr Ostr, though, won’t allow review of his data unless he gets a guarantee that the “research will not defame Jews” (wtf?! Yeah.) which means only other Zionists get to see his data. That’s some faux-scientific bullshit.As the editor of the Journal of the American Medical Association put it: “allowing scientists access to data only if their research will not defame Jews is “peculiar”… what he does is set himself up for criticism: Wait a minute. What’s this guy trying to hide?”I LOVE how you’re comparing a week in Pittsburgh to over 2000 years in Europe. I mean, Pittsburgh can suck so a week might feel like forever, but still.
Should lead to some fun arguments about whether or not Cleopatra is white. Do your Ptolemaic Dynasty homework now so you’re ready.
The bigger issue isn’t even about ethnicity as much as the fact that Cleopatra is never allowed to be portrayed as anything but a white woman in Hollywood.
This wouldn’t even be that big of an issue if it wasn’t for Scarjo getting all the Asian roles.
This is the character Scarlett Johansson playedI mean, is she really wrong for the role?
Actually, this was the character she played…
Kaori Yamamoto as young Motoko Kusanagi.
So to sum up, they literally white washed an Asian woman, within the film.
What was your point?
The picture above from the anime is Major Mira Killian.
Is the film an anime or a live action film?
But i see you ignoring the racism talk…those MAGA techniques won’t help you here 🙂
Sorry I am not American (Irish here) so I don’t vote for your Orange monster (We have different Orange monsters). Not ignoring racism at all. In the anime the character, by all appearances, was a busty Caucasian so the filmmakers hired a bust Caucasian. I think most of the arguments are from people that are unfamiliar with the source material.
Oh, you don’t have to vote to follow an asshole.
I mean, you gave him a golf a course in your country, the money looks just as green on any hemisphere.
Dude, everyone isn’t some spoiled rich entitled American. The vast majority of people aren’t. Nobody cares about your Orange man that you all voted for. Everything isn’t about you. Stop being so self-centered and entitled and realise that there are other people in this world.
Yeah, Motoko Kusanagi is such a Caucasian name.
That’s going to be painful.
I mean, the Ptolomy’s were inbreeding for generations so she was more Greek than Egyptian.
Cousin doesn’t begin to describe it:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ptolemaic_dynasty#Ptolemaic_family_tree
Im an amateur historian. I’ve done my homework and had my arguments. I’m ready.
I look at things on the Internet. I’ve done my homework and had my arguments. I’m ready.
Basically the same thing far as the internet goes. I could give citations and foot notes but like anyone reads that.
Thing is, I pointed that out on Twitter to someone who complained that Gal Godot was canst and not Lupita (I think, but she just said Lupita) and she already had an answer:And at that point I deleted my tweet. I am not getting into a fight with black people over the skin color of a long dead queen. Side note: could Gawker and Twitter please get their shit together? I write color on twitter and they want to correct it to colour. I then write colour here and they want to change it to color. Can we please agree on one bloody spelling? Why is it so bloody hard?
I have no problem with casting a black woman to play Cleopatra, other than that it might confuse people because it’s historically inaccurateI’m just hoping the PR department is ready not to kowtow to people who will say Gadot shouldn’t be able to play Cleopatra because she isn’t black and they mistakenly believe Cleopatra was black. Also because there will be a lot of nazis and russian trolls hiding in those comments who are only trying to sow division. If you want to color-blind cast Cleopatra go ahead, I’m much more interested in Cleopatra Jones anyway.
“it’s historically inaccurate”So is casting a person of Polish-German heritage like Gadot, but, oddly you seem fine with that….
It’s English. Get yer spellin’ from The Oxford Dic, Bro.
Does anyone really think she was sub-saharan African? It makes zero sense… Not to mention the Egypt at the time was basically a Greek colony… hence the city of Alexandria.
Egypt is in Africa, everyone in Africa is black, therefore Egyptians are black… is what ignorant people think, and a lot of Americans are shockingly ignorant.The ruefully funny thing about that is, when a black actor (Louis Gossett Jr.) was cast to play the late Egyptian president Anwar Sadar in a US miniseries, it pissed off many Egyptians. And Sadat actually had black ancestry (on his mother’s side), unlike Greek-as-fuck Cleopatra.
I am black and its not just Americans I think its mostly black Americans who think Egyptians are black. Egyptian’s don’t claim us, so I don’t know why as black people we keep holding them in reverence like they will welcome us home one day. There was a lot other things in Africa to be proud of that does not have to do with Egypt.
For American (in the continental sense) descendants of slavery, the part of Africa their ancestors came from is the broad coastal area between southwestern Mauritania and northwestern Angola (with a few instances of slaves from Mozambique and Madagascar). It’s a region with a rich history and many noteworthy peoples: the Kongo, the Wolof, the Fon of Dahomey, the Igbo, the Yoruba, the Ashanti, and of course the Mandinka (which is where you get the term “Mandingo” from). Of these, most (US) Americans of any color have only ever heard of the Ashanti.What you won’t find there are the Zulu, the Swahili, the Ethiopians, the Nubians, the Egyptians, or (excuse the eye-roll) the Carthaginians. The African-American fixation on Egypt lies at the intersection of an unhealthy psychological need for a glorious past (there are too many European precedents for that sort of thing that I could name, from 19th century British Israelism to 20th century Romanian Dacomania) and a typically American disinterest in the outside world. It falls under the same heading as people thinking Africa is a country. Imagine a Polish-American man wearing lederhosen or a kilt and calling it his ancestral garb, and you have some idea how misguided this stuff is.
That’s not actually what anyone is discussing here. It’s not crazy to hope that someone would cast a black actor to play Cleopatra, given the two million characters of color who have been played by white people.
Can’t we just fall back on “the concept of ‘white’ did not exist back then, so it’s impossible to say,” and duck the whole issue?
That doesn’t really get to the bottom of whether Gal Gadot is “allowed” to play her, so no.
Of COURSE! She was as pale and milky as Surfer Jesus from my Kids’ Bible!
Shouldn’t we instead be arguing about whether Gal Gadot is too pretty to play Cleopatra instead of perpetuating myth that she was a world-class beauty?
In a case of an Israeli playing an Egyptian Queen, be it a one of Greek origins, the color of her skin my not be the major point of debate…..
I’ve always thought Cleopatra was Elizabeth Taylor.
Does playing Assassin’s Creed Origins count?
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So I guess like the Amazons in Wonder Woman, everyone in ancient Egypt will have the same accent as Gal Gadot.
It’s either that or some form of a British accent that always seems to be used.
Duh it’s old everyone speaks British in olden days regardless of the country.
Even in Nazi germany they always spoke English with a posh accent.
Or vice/versa. It’s those Hanovers.
mid-atlantic glub glub glub
Well, generally the aristocracy in Rome spoke the Queens English. The slaves usually either speak with American or Australian accents as Spartacus in all its forms has proven.
Not lying I thought of the MST3K episode Werewolf when she spoke in Wonder Women. Too bad the movie was not made in the 90s because Lucy Lawless would’ve been a good choice.
I mean, there’s no way to make that particularly correct, but Hebrew is a lot closer to the other languages of the era. What would take some more research would be checking whether Latin and/or Greek was widely spoken in Egypt at the time (and not just by the royalty).
An entire country of camp counselors.
Paramount has won the rights to a new Cleopatra movie from Jenkins that is being billed as an “epic” historical drama with a possibility for a “big female empowerment” angle I don’t want to burst anyone’s bubble but Cleopatra’s story isn’t a great one for empowerment. She spent all of her life either fighting for power against her siblings, then she briefly held power by aligning herself with powerful men, and then she died before she was even 40. The fact that she was by all account a brilliant woman only gives a feel of missed opportunity to the story.I’m guessing they will pretend Ptolemy XIV did not exist, so that his murder doesn’t hurt Cleopatra’s likeability, but I hope Arsinoe will have a big part.
“Biopic” seems like such an odd thing to describe a movie about someone who was alive thousands of years ago.
Hopefully this will have some of the juicy deets from the salacious Albert Goldman Cleopatra book!
There is a metric ton of historical documentation from that period in history that gives pretty detailed accounts of her life. A lot of it was from the Greek side which is kinda unreliable at times, but it’s still good enough for the time
Greek, or Roman?
I always get those mixed up lol
Not a surprise. Rome did steal a lot of culture from Greece but for a long time historians cataloging the rise of western civilization likes to draw a nice straight live from Greece to Rome while ignoring how both those culture were also heavily influenced by other cultures they encountered. Mostly because those cultures were seen as “inferior”(aka People of color) Similar in a lot of ways to how for a long time modern historians also sorta glossed over the fact that the only thing the crusades did that was any good was bringing in advances in science from the Middle East to Europe. Radical ideas like bathing and washing the dirt off food before eating it
I Can’t Believe It’s Not Grecian!
Tell that to Mel Gibson.
brb, gonna do another rewatch of Rome
The best Cleopatra. And best Mark Antony. And best Caesar and best.. Well, everything.
I’m in the middle of rewatching Rome for the third or fourth time and wholeheartedly agree. James Purefoy is probably my favorite–his Antony is truly perfection–but I also cannot see anyone else as Caesar or Cleopatra after that show.
Just started another one of my own (and sadly am almost halfway through) so I endorse this plan in the strongest possible terms.
I’m halfway through mine! Things ended poorly for Caesar last night. Because of that rewatch, as soon as I saw this headline, all I could think was, “You’re not going to find a better Mark Antony than Rome had.”
Oh, for sure. James Purefoy was so good that he made me watch like six episodes of The Following (a wretched, just god-awful crime drama on FOX he was in with Kevin Bacon) purely on the strength of that performance. But he made up for it with another great role in Hap & Leonard afterward. 🙂
Haha I have had quite an internal struggle debating with myself whether I should sit through the dumpster fire that is The Following for Purefoy. Probably won’t, but he earned himself a lot of points as Antony.
Things ended poorly for CaesarDude- spoilers.
Well, I didn’t specify in what way they ended badly! 😉
Also, I’m not sure if anybody has Rome DVDs anymore, but the episode commentaries (especially those from historical consultant Jonathan Stamp) were really interesting and worth a listen.
My uncle has a set of Rome DVDs I gave him going on 10 years ago or more but they and he are trapped in their home because of Covid-19 and I’m in Australia. I was going to see them this year but … you know.
Cleopatra was macedonian greek, to everybody who is going to give other takes here
Yes but Gal Gadot isn’t greek either.
Israel is close to Cyprus which is half Greek and therefore, uhh… Close enough?
I’m sure we’ll get some bad faith arguments pretending that every Harry Truman biopic needs somebody who was born in Independence Mo.
Isn’t that the slogan of the Levant Tourism Board?
Israel is a Mediterranean country, after all. I’ll allow it.
Her family name is actually Greenstein. Her European parents changed it to a made-up name to sound more “ethnic”
Both of her parents were born in Israel, and her father’s family had lived in Israel (or the land that became Israel) for six generations. Gal Gadot is about as “European” as anyone nicknamed “Sully” in Boston.
If someone is claiming “Sully” from Boston is Native American because his dad changed the family name to a random Algonquin word when they moved to Southie, then yeah, people would also be pointing out that, no, his family is 100% European and pretending to be “ethnic” is some sad wypipo bullshit. Gadot’s family is specifically of Polish and German descent.
I apologize, because my initial analogy wasn’t good. The difference between the “Sully” in your comment who changes his name to an Algonquin word and the Gadot family is that the Gadot family descends, however distantly, from people who did live in Israel, and who did speak Hebrew. To make the analogy work, it’s as if Sully were descended from some community of Native Americans who had been abducted and brought to Europe several centuries earlier, and forced to adopt European names.
Gadot’s family is Jewish. There is no evidence to suggest that they identify as anything other than Israeli or Jewish.
She might share some DNA with people who thousands of years ago lived in the Levant – but it’s been thousands of years so its more likely that she does not share any DNA with those ancient people at all. It’s a very tenuous claim, at best. A random person in Botswana or Argentina or India or Scotland could easily share more DNA with them than her.People travelled. Kings fell. Wars were lost. Marriages happened. People converted. DNA mixed. The “Gadot family” didn’t exist until 1985. A European Weiss married a European Greenstein and later they changed their name to a random Israeli Hebrew word. Israeli Hebrew was invented in Europe in the late 1800s to the early 1900s.Adopting a name a few years ago from a language invented in Europe less than a hundred years ago does not make anyone “from” a land in the Levant, nor does practicing a religion, nor does possibly having an ancestor that lived in the area thousands of years ago – we all possibly had an ancestor that did.You can say she lives in Israel. You can’t say she’s descended from anything but Europeans. She’s like Trump. Her family also recently emigrated to another place from Germany and changed their name to something made up to try to lay claim to someone else’s heritage and to try give themselves a legitimacy they don’t have.She likely shares more DNA with someone like Trump than she does someone like Raphael Hayyim Isaac Carregal.
I have tried to engage with you on the assumption that you’re not arguing in bad faith, but I’m pretty sure, at this point, that you are.Study after study have shown that Jews show consistent genetic similarities, even between Ashkenazi, Sephardi, and Mizrachi Jews. And, moreover, that from a genetic perspective, the populations that Jews resemble most are other Levantine and Middle Eastern groups.
To suggest that Jews have no connection to the Middle East is a lie, an antisemitic bit of propaganda, and a variation on the scientifically disproven “Khazar thesis” that posited that Jews were descended from Turkic converts rather than from the Israelites exiled from Judea.
It’s always interesting how people accusing others of “bad faith” so often do so while engaging in obvious bad faith. It reminds me of the GOP accusing everyone else of voter fraud while seemingly being the only ones actually engaging in voter fraud. Nowhere did I “suggest that Jews have no connection to the Middle East” I said German-Polish family is of European descent, which they are. Much like changing Drumpf to Trump didn’t change his heritage; changing Greenstein to Gadot didn’t change hers.
Which means her fathers family probably came over during the pogroms happening in the turn of the 20th century. My fathers family came from the same area of the world to America. While I’m definitely an American, I am very much of European decent still
In fairness to the Greenstein family, they were subjected to pogroms precisely because the Europeans around them did not believe that they were, in fact, Europeans. “Yids Back to Palestine” predates “Israelis Out of Palestine” by a few centuries.
Back to Palestine” predates “Israelis Out of Palestine” by a few centuries.No. Europeans did not think of the Levant as a “Jewish homeland.” Nor did they think Jews had a homeland at all – that’s a very modern concept. Particularly obvious considering a big chunk of European history involved Crusades to take the Levant for Christianity. Jews were absolutely subject to persecution in Europe for many centuries but it was about them not converting to X religion like everybody else, not about sending Jews “back” to someplace. Jews didn’t acquiesce to the powers that be like everybody else in the area; powers that be didn’t like that – simple.Jews were also subject to expulsions but those were about seizing property and cancelling debt not about sending Jews “back” to someplace: Economically, Jews played a key role in the country. The Church then strictly forbade the lending of money for profit, creating a vacuum in the economy of Europe that Jews filled because of extreme discrimination in every other economic area. Canon law was not considered applicable to Jews, and Judaism does not forbid loans with interest between Jews and non-Jews…. The reputation of Jews as extortionate money-lenders arose, which made them extremely unpopular with both the Church and the general public…. Meanwhile, his court and major Barons bought Jewish debts with the intention of securing lands of lesser nobles through defaults. The Second Barons’ War in the 1260s brought a series of pogroms aimed at destroying the evidence of these debts…. King Edward ordered the local Jews expelled. All their property was seized by the crown and all outstanding debts payable to Jews were transferred to the King’s name… The edict of expulsion was widely popular and met with little resistance, and the expulsion was quickly carried out… The Jewish population in England at the time was relatively small, perhaps 2,000 people, although estimates vary… Many Jews emigrated, to Scotland, France and the Netherlands, and as far as Poland, which guaranteed their legal rights https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edict_of_Expulsion
Actually, her parents changed it from a German slave name to a Hebrew one (“Gadot” means “riverbanks”) in order to connect with their Israelite heritage.
Her Israeli-born parents changed it to an actual word in Hebrew, which is her native language and theirs.
“Her Israeli-born parents changed it to an actual word in Hebrew”Modern Hebrew was invented by racist Zionists in Europe in the late 1800s and early 1900s. It was forced on the people of Mandatory Palestine (who were mostly Arabic-speaking even after all of the European Colonialism and Imperialisms they had to endure) beginning in the 1920s. It eventually became the sole official language of Israel in… 2018. Only about half of Israeli citizen speak it as a “native language”Her European family, on both sides, her mother’s Weiss family and her father’s Greenstein family, spoke German, Polish and possibly Yiddish. Her parents changed the family name just before her birth in 1985. Before that, they were Mr. and Mrs. Greenstein. It’s play-acting at being “ethnic” in a ploy for a veneer of legitimacy for their Colonialism, Racism, Imperialism and their on-going Genocide of indigenous peoples.It would be like if some Chinese guy from Beijing moved to Italy, changed his last name to Il Fiume and started claiming he was of Mediterranean descent because of his new last name.
An entire ethnic group doesn’t really exist, because buzzwords. Got it. Some of this stuff is so egregiously false and self-contradictory, I don’t know if it’s even worth addressing. Surely nobody here is stupid enough to believe Hebrew isn’t a real language, right?
No one said any of that. But go off I guess.
No, putting a term in quotation marks isn’t meant to cast aspersions on its legitimacy in any way. And insisting on referring to Israeli Jews as Europeans (never mind the Mizrahim) surely can’t be misconstrued as refusing to acknowledge their ethnic (another word you’d burden with quotation marks) identity.
Hmm. It’s funny how in the same breathe you’re insisting that Israeli Jews aren’t a monolith, but also insisting that me saying Gal Gadot’s family emigrated to the Levant from Europe (which they absolutely did) means that I’m saying that all Israeli Jews did. Apparently they’re a monolith or not depending on if it’s convenient for the flavor of your disingenuousness in the moment.
Yes, me pointing out your stereotyping is certainly the same as me engaging in stereotyping. Very funny.I see a few people upstream upvoted your previous dumbass comments. Do any of them want to reply to me and try to restate what you just said in a way that makes sense? I feel like I’m bleeding IQ points every time I try to parse the Mad Libs page this pompous buffoon just posted.
Telly Savalas IS Cleopatra!(he’s also dead)
Was she real Macedonian or North Macedonian?
I think she was from Macedon NY, near where the Mormons came from, that’s why she’s so white
“Walk Like an Egyptian!” ~ Me, shouting at the lack of verisimilitude
A new Cleopatra movie in the works? Imagine…all the extras. It’s easy, if you try.
Meanwhile a lone scarab looks upon the construction, watching the wheels go round and round.
coo-coo-ca-choo
Erm… no disrespect to Ms. C., who I’m sure did the best she could, and almost certainly better than I would have done, but, as I recall, she bounced from powerful Roman boyfriend to powerful Roman boyfriend, then threw in the towel when she couldn’t seduce the last Roman to come calling. So… female empowerment?
Keep in mind, a lot of the popular view of Cleopatra was based off biased Roman sources. Cleopatra’s reign was a lot more than seducing Caesar and Mark Antony.
Not in this. Here, she’ll personally beat up whichever Roman senator is the movie’s Trump allegory, then throw him out of the palace herself like Uncle Phil did Jazz.
So tall, striking, 35 year old Gal Gadot is going to play a short 13 year old with a big nose having sex with Julius Caesar on a boat all summer. Sounds historically accurate to me!Or maybe she was a little older. But still.
Roman Polanski would make that movie.
Roman Polanski would play Julius Caesar.
It’d just be a biopic really.
Et tu, Quaalude?
Cleopatra was born in 69 BC (nice) and did not begin her relationship with Caesar until 47 BC, when she would have been 22. So no need to cancel Caesar over that.
Oh what a relief. Twitter might not like his immigration policy though…
Probably wouldn’t be thrilled by the wars of conquest either.
Well… if it’s Gal Gadot playing her then I’ll give it a watch. Seems preferable to getting a 13 year old to do it anyway.Cleopatra cumming at cha!
Yeah, but will it be as good as Carry On Cleo? I think not!
Infamy! Infamy!They’ve all got it in fa’ me!
Comin’ At Ya
Whatever happened the Hedy Lamarr project Gadot was trying to get off the ground? I think I’d rather see a 6-part miniseries about that than another rehash of Cleopatra.
For a moment I thought that Hedy Lamarr was involved in some Cleopatra project or other herself, and Gadot could stealth get it in there anyway, but turns out she wasn’t.Hedy Lamarr seems pretty fascinating though, so yeah, I agree with you.
That’s Headly…
What the hell are you worried about? It’s 1874. You’ll be able to sue her!
Almost certainly win an Oscar for best supporting actor!
I’m sorry, but I just don’t think Gadot is a good actress. She’s just so expressionless most of the time and, even if this is intended as stoicism (is it?), it just makes me think of a wooden plank trying to speak. I don’t see any affect at all.
From BvS to Wonder Woman, I think she got better, but I suspect that has more to do with Patty Jenkins being an infinitely better director than Zack Snyder.
KALELNO
So I guess this means no more Denis Villeneuve, who had been previously attached to it.
People talking about how Gadot is “white” are overlooking the more serious transgression that she’s just plain too pretty to be Cleopatra. Unless they go ahead and give her a prosthetic goiter.
How about Gary Oldman playing Gal Gadot who is playing Cleopatra (with a goiter)?
That’s the oddest riddle wrapped in a mystery inside of an enigma I’ve ever heard of!
ok, i was wondering about this. i thought that her beauty was something made up to hide the fact that she was really really smart.
because it was easier for the menfolk of history to admit they were bewitched rather than outsmarted.also, i am bad at history.
Yeah you’re definitely really really stupid, that’s for sure.
All the better to distract everyone from Chris Pine’s Antonius.
This.
Gal Gadot is a horrible shitty person who couldn’t act her way out of a wet paper bag. She would have no career at all if she wasn’t propped up by a right wing propaganda machine.Will the Koch brothers, Hasbara and Mnuchen be funding this one, too?
Was Scarlett Johansson not available, or Emma Stone?
“…but HER and star Gal Godot are already preparing…”? I’m not a grammar nazi, but come on, everybody, let’s keep it together.
I have zero problem with Gadot’s being Israeli, or with her being light-skinned. What I have a problem with is that contemporary sources were universally agreed that Cleopatra was NOT conventionally attractive, and that her mesmeric effect on men was of a different sort altogether from being what we or they would call “hot.”
Hotwashing has not become an internet slogan though, so you probably won’t get much traction for that.
They looked past her average looks and gazed lovingly on those enormous piles of grain and gold.
Cleopatra was NOT conventionally attractiveGadot will play her with glasses, and have her hair up in a bun. Problem solved.
They’ll probably give her a five-pound prosthetic schnozz.
HOW DARE YOU SI– … Oh. An artificial nose, you mean.
That first sentence is a grammatical disgrace.
Greek actresses are lining up to be considered…?
I’ve noticed (from the greys) that we have a troupe of actors in the Giz-verse that are highly offended that Gal Gadot was unhappy at Hamas killing Israelis, so they come out and verbally tear her and all Israelis down each time she’s mentioned.
I see one comment, and it isn’t in the greys. Anyway, I think you’re rather simplifying the problems people have with Gadot. It’s not just the tweet with her daughter (the human shields rationale for civilian casualties and IDF are freeing Gaza routine are different amounts of arguable to say the least – the second, especially ironic given Israel’s historical role in the funding and development of Hamas as a counterweight to the PLO In 1979). It’s also the “IDF prepared me for the role of Wonder Woman” moment (Michael Scott-esque really), and the “army is good because it teaches you respect, and we all have to give something back” bit.Let’s just say she’s not been exactly clever.
The responses to my comment are interesting. Apparently, folks will support Hamas against “Israel policy” (cheering them in killing every Jewish person on Earth) in the same way they support the Taliban against “American policy” (cheering their support of worldwide terror groups.)The “domestic” policies of both groups and actions against women in particular, just don’t bother them at all. They just want that one group to triumph over the chosen hated group.
Eh, as others have said this is one of the few actual non-issues about casting, but people will make a fuss over this anyway.The real question is, do we really need another Cleopatra movie? When I saw this news my mind just went straight to the game Assassin’s Creed Origins, where I last saw Cleopatra as a character. That game would’ve made for an interesting movie, and actually featured Egyptian lead characters with Cleopatra and Julius Caesar as supporting characters. I bet that game’s story would be more interesting than any Cleopatra movie would’ve been.
Cleopatra movies go back to the beginning of cinema. I mean the famous lost film with Theda Bara is from 1917!
I’ve always wished that someone would give more attention to the story of Queen Zenobia of Palmyria.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zenobia
Me too, but unfortunately she was a racist engaged in acts of cultural appropriation. Also, whatever actress you’re thinking of to play her has the wrong accent.
I think the arguments of what color to portray Cleopatra overlook a larger point that SHOULD be the crux of discussion, which is why we have this ancient culture that created one of the world’s great wonders, with CENTURIES of intrigue, history, architecture, etc and seemingly the only stories we ever tell about ancient Egypt, again and again, are the ones where the white people show up…
They made “Gods of Eygpt” so there is that.
They should try having Cleopatra portrayed by someone who can act.