George R.R. Martin says his deal with HBO is suspended, leaving more time to (not) finish The Winds Of Winter
Martin revealed in a blog post that his 5-year deal with HBO was suspended due to the ongoing strike
Aux News George R.R. Martin
It isn’t all that surprising that George R.R. Martin—author of a sprawling epic denouncing the corrupting influence of unregulated power—would come out so strongly in favor of the historic double strike between the WGA and SAG-AFTRA. (At least, that’s how we hope the books turn out. It’s a real shame the show got canceled just before it could deliver what was sure to be a stunning and perfect ending, right?)
It’s also not remotely surprising that Martin seems… not all that put out about having even less writing on his plate moving forward. In a lengthy blog post, the author and producer revealed that the 5-year deal he inked with HBO in 2021 was “suspended” on June 1 as a result of the walkout. As a reminder for those who may have forgotten in the wake of House Of The Dragon being actually good, HBO also announced approximately 782 other Game Of Thrones spin-offs around the same time, in order for the streamer to really squeeze that iron bank for all its worth and for GRRM to engage in his favorite pastime: namely, writing any sort of Westerosi lore that doesn’t actually involve the characters his fans already know and love.
These shows included the tightly-named A Knight Of The Seven Kingdoms: The Hedge Knight (NOT Tales Of Dunk & Egg as it’s often referred to by fans, per an emphatic reminder from the man himself), something called 9 Voyages, at least three animated series (as of 2021), and the Kit Harrington’s much-discussed Jon Snow spinoff—although it sounds like GRRM didn’t have much to do with that. The futures of all these projects are now in question. (A representative from HBO did not immediately respond to The A.V. Club’s request for comment.)
Martin also gives small updates on his other projects in the blog, although he spends the majority championing the strike (“the most important of my lifetime”) and slamming AMPTP for their abhorrent tactics that he anticipates will make the process “long and bitter.”
The second season of AMC’s Dark Winds (which he produces) wrapped before the strike and will premiere on July 30 as planned. The author also confirmed previous announcements that House Of The Dragon would continue to film overseas. As for the big one? He’s really, truly writing it, he swears.
“Yes, yes, of course, I’ve been working on WINDS OF WINTER. Almost every day. Writing, rewriting, editing, writing some more. Making steady progress,” he said. “Not as fast as I would like… certainly not as fast as YOU would like… but progress nonetheless.”
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I said it in 2011 and I’ll say it again: he’s not finishing another novel. What’s the motivation? What’s the incentive for a man who has all the money?
One of these days he will give the real answer.“I’m old, I’m rich and I’m too bored with this shit to bother finishing it.” — G.R.R.M.Either that or he is just going to die.
“Just read a history book about the Wars of the Roses. The ending? Basically that. But something something dragons.” – GRRM
George RR Fartin
I the deal ends up really and truly suspended, that might be best for HBO. These are expensive shows and it seems the culture has moved on. Not that GOT spinoffs aren’t likely to be popular, but it seems that the cost/benefit (given the high cost) doesn’t make much sense. Especially since years go by between projects actually seeing the light of day. Enthusiasm wanes. Like Star Trek and Star Wars, this franchise is bogged down by massive budgets and glacial development. What does get made is fine-to-decent, but not much more.
“These are expensive shows and it seems the culture has moved on.”Yeah, because House of the Dragon flopped so hard.Right, stupid?
“These are expensive shows and it seems the culture has moved on.”
What’s your evidence? Because:
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/house-of-the-dragon-finale-tv-ratings-sunday-oct-23-2022-1235247566/https://winteriscoming.net/2022/10/26/house-of-the-dragon-finale-hbo-best-ratings-since-game-of-thrones-ending/
https://www.cnn.com/2022/10/24/media/game-of-thrones-house-of-the-dragon-ratings/index.htmlThey’re definitely expensive shows. And, before House of the Dragon was released, lots of people said they’d moved on. Those fuckers were watching, though. I’d suggest that what people moved on from was the two turds responsible for speed running the final season of Game of Thrones without any regard for completing the story in a way that was compelling or coherent.
I’m pretty sure House of the Dragon is pretty popular so far…
Oh right, the Jon Snow spinoff…between that and the SW announcement of another Rey trilogy, I’m wondering if tanking massively expensive franchises is some kind of sexual fetish. That’s the only explanation I can come up with as to why these things got greenlit. Nonconsent maybe? “Here’s a thing that nobody wants”?
Seriously. I’m a lifelong Star Wars fan and Rey could Force yeet herself off a cliff for all I care. Daisy did her best with the role but it was just badly written all the way around, they’re not tricking me into paying money to see yet another movie with her in it.
Bad writing in a star wars movie, eh?
I’m not sure what you would be tricked into, since the team behind the sequels isn’t making the Rey movie. Are you expecting JJ Abrams to dress up as Sharmeen Obaid-Chinoy and direct the film in secret?
Nobody is making the Rey movie, it will probably never happen like all the other movies they promised and were cancelled.
I am not sure it will ever happen but I really just hope they eventually just act like the Disney trilogy never happened and move on. For the record I an not a TLJ hater, I actually like it. But the fallout after and Rise of Skywalker just killed my enjoyment of that entire trilogy
I like parts of TLJ but most of the plot is straight nonsense. RoS just put the nail in the coffin.
I honestly wish she got better material to work with. The casting was solid and everyone but Ford seemed to be full of enthusiasm, but the writing started off mediocre and then only went downhill.
You must be new to American capitalism or something because this is how it always works; keep endlessly cranking out product, no matter how bad it is to many people until it stops making money. Happy investors and shareholders, big profits, and salaries is the orgasm fetish part to them.
No I’m painfully naive. There’s a difference.
Rey sells a lot of toys and Halloween costumes to young kids. The Force Awakens will be pretty much 10 years old by the time the Rey movie comes out. That’s just enough time for those younger kids to be 18 – 24 and ready for their own nostalgia train.
Absolutely, they’re gonna keep going as long as there’s something to bleed out of the body.As others have mentioned, there’s no real problem with Rey as a character. But a continuation of the story from the RoS is not particularly compelling, and I doubt they’ll retcon anything so…Yeah, who’s excited for this Jon Snow thing?
Rey works as a character. She was the typical Star Wars film protagonist who is oddly good at everything with minimal training thanks to living a harsh life on a desert planet. I found her more likeable than Anakin and nowhere near as much of a charisma void as Luke was. I honestly found the Lego Star Wars Christmas special to be a better continuation than I think they’re capable of doing in live action. Rey was training Finn in the force there, which is what TFA seemed to be leading to before the next two films just went looking for sharks to jump. Though I will always be bugged by how Kylo managed to destroy Luke’s Jedi school. The Knights of Ren were a joke, Kylo was barely trained, and I’m guessing Luke was the worst teacher ever if Rey bailed on him after a time period that seemed like it was a week at most. Considering how dumb he was shown to be in the Book of Boba Fett when it came to retaining students, I’m starting to think Kylo was the only person Luke tried to teach until they came up with Grogu.
I think it probably depends on what they do.If they actually do “Rey builds a Jedi school and everyone doesn’t turn dark and get murdered,” I’d be here for it.I do think there’s also hope that some of the decent characters from the trilogy like Poe and Finn might end up showing up as well.
“George, bubby, we here at Max are just not really into the whole ‘epic fantasy drama’ thing right now… what do you have in the way of of flipping houses, or gawking at people who want to get married for a green card? Bonus points if you can find someone with an interesting physical or mental defect!”
“Welcome back to The North Rehabs! The army of the dead made a mess of the Last Hearth, but Colby and the team have 6 days to make it fit for a King…beyond OR below the Wall!”
“Then, on Casterly Rock & Roll: Lord Tyrion’s vacation holdfast near Lannisport is boring! Let’s help the Hand of the King kick it up a notch with a Rock & Roll makeover!”
“Tonight on Hoarders: Hodor learns to let go of hoarding too many whores… and later, delicious hors d’oeuvres!”
“One Man, 20 Daughter-Wives! Who will Craster keep, and who’ll be taken by the Others? This season, on Wildling Wedding: Incest is Best…”
Tonight on Dr. Head Popper Ser Gregor “The Mountain” Clegane journeys to the Riverlands to decapitate horses and crush the skulls of all who oppose him.
“Yes, yes, of course, I’ve been working on WINDS OF WINTER. Almost every day. Writing, rewriting, editing, writing some more. Making steady progress,” he said. “Not as fast as I would like… certainly not as fast as YOU would like… but progress nonetheless.”He sits on an Iron Throne of lies.
Certainly not a paper throne of pages…
He’ll likely die on a throne of porcelain, ripping his aorta in twain trying to push out previous week’s triple cheesesteak and Doritos.
He takes the writers’ strike far too seriously to write anything at all during it. Or before it. Or after it. This is a man of conviction.
At this point, I would be happy if AI could just jump in and finish the rest of the books, thanks.Assuming, of course, that AI could avoid the worst possible choices the final season(s) of GoT threw at us.
A Dream of Spring is supposed to be the finale, right?Let’s see…dude is 74…been 12 years since the last book….
Dream could not be a better title. It’ll be just imagination because it never happened!
George is the bad Dungeon Master you tolerate because no one else wants to DM.
The one that makes you want to learn to not be socially awkward just so you can DM and do something else.
The one that hints at his weird fetishes in his adventures to see if anyone will bite.No one does and everyone clumsily ignores it.
Replace “NBC” with “HBO” and “1997″ with “2015″.ETA – I thought I attached the picture of Jack Donaghy’s programming plan for NBC from 30 Rock.
It isn’t all that surprising that George R.R. Martin—author of a sprawling epic denouncing the corrupting influence of unregulated powerI know that’s what the series wants to do, and then it ends with keeping the exact same system and structure that worked so well to begin with. There’s no anachronism in fantasy worlds and the outcomes are made up. The lesson in Game of Thrones was it’s bad when bad people have power so hopefully the good ones get it, it’s hereditarily retained and you never know if someone is going to turn out bad, even when they start off decent, the end?
Where my bro hood without banners at
I heard they got co-opted by a bunch of neo-con Red Lady fanatic religious types. Gone the way of so many radical and anarchist groups before them.
Listen you Jersey bastard. Quit circle jerking around and just admit you’ll never finish the series and just let someone ghostwrite it. You couldn’t even finish this fucker when the world was in lockdown.
This series is going to be like the Dune series. The original books by the original author end in cliffhanger at the time of the author’s death. Someone will come along to write a massively inferior ending leaving everyone extremely disappointed.
This is exactly how this is going to turn out.
As much as I want “Tales from the Citadel Pt. IV” by Greg SS Martin and Kevin J Anderson, my bets are on a Brandon Sanderson wrap-up job, wheel o time style.
For fuck’s sake, No! Anyone but Brandon Sanderson. An AI would be better. Besides, he couldn’t handle the sexy bits, and probably wouldn’t want to.
Sanderson probably has all five final books written and ready to go as soon as Martin dies and we’ll look back on the first five and think they were trash in comparison.
While making another Mistborn, Stormlight and TWO secret project. Take that Martin!
You’re talking to the wrong guy; I haven’t enjoyed the stand-alone Sanderson I’ve read. I haven’t read WoT either, but afaik the general consensus is that his final books are just fine.
Sanderson is fine..if you’re 12.
Eh, the stuff by Brian Herbert and Kevin J. Anderson does super suck, but Chapterhouse Dune more or less shows that Frank Herbert wasn’t going to … get better at writing Dune books. The arc was bending towards bad either way.
As long as we get a killer real time strategy game out of the deal I’m fine with it.
I used to think that maybe they’d get Ty Cobb and Daniel Abraham to finish it if he dropped dead. Maybe they’d have an AI do it now instead .
Ty Franck
Dune has multiple endings. If Herbert wrote another book, it could have jumped ahead thousands of years like God Emperor of Dune did.
There are many good writers that could finish it. Daniel Abrahams that used to work with him, wrote The Expanse series and had its own very nice and reminiscent of GoT fantasy series could be a great choice. There are others.
Arguably that’s already happened.
I’ll believe it when I read it.
And just like GRRM decided to singlehandedly stop the strikes to ensure he doesn’t have to finish Winds of Winter.
I saw a story a couple days ago where someone used ChatGPT to finish the last 2 books. Now I don’t advocate for AI to take over people’s jobs but if there was one case where I’d allow it, it might be for this. At the very least, can we use it as a threat? Like “George, finish the damn books or we’re making the ChatGPT version canon”
Yes, yes, of course, I’ve been working on WINDS OF WINTER.
Considering he said in like 2012 that he had 1,200 words written on this book, I’m assuming he just keeps adding to what’s already there:makes george a dull boy all sex and no plot makes george a dull boy all sex and no plot makes george a dull boy all sex and no plot makes george a dull boy all sex and no plot makes george a dull boy all sex and no plot makes george a dull boy all sex and no plot makes george a dull boy all sex and no plot makes george a dull boy all sex and no plot makes
And last year he said he had 1,200 pages with *just* 400-500 to go. He is lost. So lost. A 1,600 page novel is punishing stuff. Just brutal. For the writer and the reader. His poor editors. If he really has 1,200 pages and yet cannot fashion that into a publishable book…I don’t know what to tell him. It’s not gonna happen.
The answer is pretty obvious that he’s either lying about having 1,200 pages done for the past 10+ years and is still writing more, or that whatever he has isn’t in any way useable.
Either way, I firmly believe that, given the content of the first five books, he has absolutely no idea where to take the story, because he set up a story that cannot have a satisfying ending. Where do you pinch that turd off? Someone wins the throne? The series has already had two kings. One of the major characters prevails? Which one? There’s like 15 “major” characters.
The fifth book in particular was so over-padded. Over 1,000 pages, but only about 300 worth of actual content. Honestly I don’t know what his editor was thinking other than “well he delivered 2,000 pages of bad porn and I guess I have to keep some of it.”
I honestly think his editors don’t have much sway. They are captive to whatever Martin produces, whenever he produces it. It doesn’t strike me as the sort of collaborative relationship that generally benefits good writers (ala Maxwell Perkins editing for Fitzgerald and Hemingway). I don’t think Martin consults with or listens to his editors. (Honestly, I would love to be a fly on the wall when they meet. Or I’d like to take the editor for a drink and get all the tea, because I bet that poor schmuck has stories). As for Martin, I think he suffers from what I call writer’s constipation. I do believe he writes, but I think he writes and re-writes the same paragraph over and over again because he is stuck and/or unsatisfied with the writing. So he spends days/weeks/months rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic rather than making progress. He basically admits to as much in this conversation with master speed-writer Stephen King:
Absolutely a possibility that his editors are powerless. I’m still going off of what I remember him offering up on his LiveJournal when I was last following him almost a decade ago, and he definitely talked about his editor slashing and burning through A Dance With Dragons because he claims he turned in 2,000 pages (at least, that’s what I remember).
Either way, he’s never finishing it, and the intervening years (and the show) has absolutely killed my appetite for a resolution, and re-examination has pretty much done away with my regard for what is in print.
If he does eventually finish it, I’m going to re-read the five first books again in the three months between when he turns in the manuscript and when it gets published (I just assume they’ve got a process all ready to go as soon as he turns in the manuscript). I did that before he released Fire and Blood, and it was worth it – you notice a lot more details on the re-read.
He hasn’t written an episode of TV since “The Lion and the Rose” aired back in 2014. The Hedge Knight TV series is going to be based on novellas whose most recent entry is from 2010. And for all the complaints people have about his involvement in the Wild Cards anthology series, the last story he actually wrote for it was published in 2008. In 2011 (after finishing A Dance with Dragons) he said he was not only going to write a new Dunk & Egg novella, but was also going to contribute a Nicholas van Rijn story to a Poul Anderson tribute anthology. “Multiverse: Exploring Poul Anderson’s Worlds” was published in 2014 without his contribution, and like I said there has been no new Dunk & Egg story. The only way any new narrative content can get made is if it doesn’t require waiting on him to write it.
Zero. Pages.
Yep. And honestly if I were him I would just own it at this point. “Yo, I’ve made a zillion quadrillion dollars and I’m just not that into writing anymore. I’m in my mid-70s and I’m going to retire and fuck around writing if and when I want, and let the HBO series stand on its own as the end of the story.”
I think it’s also influenced by the 3.5 million side quests and inconsequential characters he has introduced in the books that he now has to deal with when a lot of it is probably not going to impact the main narrative. A lot of what started as stalling for time, making it seem plausible that some other Targaryen was other there, not revealing Jon’s parentage etc. even all of the prophecies now all have to be dealt with.I’m sure he’d get some shit for it, but honestly, if he was just like “hey young Griff doesn’t actually matter so I’m going to just pull a Poochie and say he died on the way back to his home planet,” rinse and repeat with the other side plots, and he’d be able to finish the main storyline at a minimum.
I won’t go so far as to say he hasn’t written any pages (he’s presented some unpublished chapters and there are photos of his computer screen containing stuff he’s writing), but the amount of time between books keeps going up, to the point where he can no longer be expected to finish. I think he screwed up a long time ago and would need a time machine to go back and prevent himself from making the mistakes preventing the story from finishing. Before he was rich his publisher could make him release whatever he had even if he wasn’t satisfied with it, but now nobody can make him do anything and he can’t unwrite the material at odds with actually wrapping up the story.
Nothing says “look at me, I’m a writer who’s writing!” more than “photos of his computer screen containing stuff he’s writing” lolololI’ve written long-form projects in the past, and I am well aware that one can produce reams and reams of disorganized notes, outlines, and scenes with {insert clever dialogue here}, yet still have zero fully usable pages. By my estimation, that is the state GRRM has been in ever since 2010-12 or so.
My recollection is that the photo didn’t consist of notes, outlines (which he claims not to write, perhaps a reason why he’s been flailing for so long) or contain such replacement indicators. It was just regular text. “Fully usable” is subjective though, and we know from his account of writing A Dance with Dragons that the number of pages would sometimes go down over the course of a year.
Yeah, the lack of outlining isn’t very surprising, is it.
Yup. He started out in short stories, then wrote a few standalone novels before the failure of the last one drove him to TV. He’d never written a novel series before and figured he could wing it. His “gardening” stance of not planning too much at the beginning and losing interest once he knew the end might have fit shorter form fiction, but is plainly unsuited to what he took on.
״he’s presented some unpublished chapters״All the unpublished chapters were originally written for Book 5. I wrote nothing new since then.
If you’re George R. R. Martin, why are you commenting under the name “Benj”?
I do think if he had finished sequential chapters at this point, he (and his publisher) would be looking at a “Winds of Winter Part 1″ situation because I do think GRRM likes money and adoration. I don’t think any chunk of the book is close to releasable.
I think his publishers can no longer make him release anything earlier than he wants to. He didn’t want to split A Feast for Crows off of A Dance with Dragons, but he was late and they were insisting so he gave them the characters he’d finished. He didn’t want to release A Dance with Dragons without a number of battles at the end, but he had spent even longer after A Feast for Crows despite promising it would be a short wait since he’d already written so much of it (and he wasn’t nearly as rich as the TV show would make him, since 90% of his sales post-date it). He has talked about how he wishes he could be like Tolkien and write the whole series first before publishing any of it, but Tolkien was an academic who didn’t have to publish fiction for a living.
That could be the case. I still think he would want to consider splitting it now if he truly had sequential work done just to get people off his back, but again, I don’t think he has much sequential work done.