I probably wouldn’t have been so quick to use a Futurama Space Pope reference if I knew how frequently the show would visit the interpersonal relationship with an AI well, which is evidently both a deep and easily-accessible well. The thing is, there were no major flaws to this episode. No strange tonal missteps that stood out or half-baked high concept premises. It very much demonstrated the overall improvement in quality I discussed last week, and it even had some of the funniest line delivery of the series. But, man, it also just wasn’t that interesting. There are boundless storyline possibilities to pursue when writing for a science fiction show. Not every week has to confront god-like space clouds, or warring civilizations that manifest some internal struggle of human psychology, or anything heavy and intense like that, but “Gordon falls in love with a simulation of an aspiring singer/songwriter from 2015” doesn’t feel like an idea that should have made it past musing out loud during the writer’s meeting. I’ve read a lot of feedback from viewers that are tired of this season’s emphasis on the crew’s interpersonal relationships, but I’ve found that to be the strongest and most unique aspect of the show. More so than the workplace comedy antics, or the space adventuring (though I’ve changed my mind about that after the Kaylon episodes), the way The Orville handled friendships and love is the most confidently told and fully-formed. So it’s a bummer that “Lasting Impressions” felt like a dull retread of stuff the show has already touched on in more interesting ways. And the b-story was Bortus and Klyden continuing to be dicks to each other, so there was no reprieve there.
The episode opens with a Dr. Sherman (Tim Russ, Tuvok from Star Trek: Voyager) overseeing the opening of a time capsule from 2015. Among the assorted relics of that seemingly forever-ago time of the last years of the Obama administration is an intact cell phone. The boys in engineering are able to get it up and running again and Gordon immediately becomes fascinated by the video message left by Laura (Leighton Meester), the phone’s former owner. Laura upgraded her phone and decided to leave the old one —all messages, photos, and voicemails intact— for the edification of future civilizations. Gordon becomes increasingly preoccupied with Laura to the point where he interfaces the phone with the ship’s simulator in order to create an immersive, ongoing interactive replica of her life. Questions about just how much of our lives we record and just how accurate our self-editing is in how we build our digital identities are very pertinent and absolutely rich with sci-fi potential —with the most likely example being the Black Mirror episode “Be Right Back”. This takes the idea of constructing a person from their phone even further by attempting to build their entire world. Friends, locations, events —everything we document with varying degrees of obsessiveness. It’s a cool concept, but also an underutilized one. Nothing really comes of the simulation beyond recreating an era-appropriate location for Gordon to woo Laura. Which is fine, inasmuch as that’s not the story “Lasting Impressions” is trying to tell, but it still feels like wasted potential. It is easy to understand Gordon’s original infatuation with Laura. There would be something so compelling and mysterious about discovering this charming, unobtainable person through one of their most intimate devices. It would be such an easy shortcut into feeling like you knew this person, and by being privy to all their opinions and mannerisms that you naturally have a connection. But for all the information Gordon has at his disposal, he doesn’t use it to manipulate Laura in any way. In fact, he’s surprised to learn of her passion to become a singer.
Gordon’s relationship with Laura continues to the point where he begins inviting the rest of the crew to Pictionary parties with Laura and group of digitally-reconstructed friends. It was about as squirmy as an episode of The Orville gets with each crew member being visibly uncomfortable being involved in what was essentially Gordon’s elaborate role-play scenario. Gordon was hurt by their criticism of his man-on-computer-simulation love, but at no point felt what he was doing was strange. It all comes to a head when the computer, only utilizing the information available in Laura’s phone, has her get back together with her ex-boyfriend, Greg. Gordon angrily deletes Greg from Laura’s profile, but as anyone who’s ever stepped on a bug while time-travelling to a prehistorical era can tell you, there are consequences for messing around with the past. By removing her ex-boyfriend, Gordon also removed Laura’s enthusiasm for pursuing a singing career, since he was the one who encouraged her in the first place. Gordon realizes the dreams of a computer copy of a person who’s been dead for four hundred years is more important than his feelings, so he brings Greg back.
And god help me, I’m going to offer some advice to all the lovesick simulator addicts out there. When you harness your godlike powers to obliterate a former lover’s existence from your pretend girlfriend’s life, be surgical about it and just tell the computer they never got back together. Maybe there are some limits to the procedurally-generated program we don’t know about that would make a more intricate character extraction difficult, but if the simulator is capable of making a solid bed out of energy and somehow keep the chamber spotless despite every single crew member having sex in there constantly, that hardly seems too difficult in comparison.
As for Bortus and Klyden; they take up smoking after Bortus finds a pack of cigarettes among the other time capsule items. They both enjoy it very much, but Moclans are highly susceptible to nicotine addiction and thus must quit. They’re bad at it and hide cigarettes from each other and fight. I understand Moclans are a belligerent species and a healthy Moclan relationship may not resemble a healthy human relationship, but it’s not particularly fun just watching the two of them fight all the time. Bortus filling a throw pillow with contraband cigarettes was pretty funny, though. So until next time, smoke ‘em if you got ‘em.
Stray Observations
- Fashion Corner: Whatever neural machine learning the simulator’s AI had to use to construct the party extras must have been limited. Everyone was identically dressed in t-shirts layered with open button-up shirts. The most 2015 thing about the whole scenario was Laura’s home’s open floor plan.
- “On the verge of a catastrophic climate collapse and they’re dedicating a whole page to teeth whitening.” I’m not being sarcastic when I say that kind of blunt, inelegant messaging is one of my favorite things in sci-fi shows.
- Ironically, for being all about 2015, this episode has almost zero 20th century pop-culture references.
- Some of the great aforementioned line delivery:
- “Ooh, military time. Is that a hipster thing? “No Trisha, it’s not.”
- Klyden, on smoking: “I feel like my whole life I’ve been standing and I finally sat down.”
- Bortus, on gum: “Is it helping?” “No. It is not.”
- Pretty cute how Laura’s phone display read out today’s date.
188 Comments
the b-story was Bortus and KlytusAt least you managed to get the character’s name right in the 2nd mention.
Questions about just how much of our lives we record and just how accurate our self-editing is in how we build our digital identities are very pertinent and absolutely rich with sci-fi potential —with the most likely example being the Black Mirror episode “Be Right Back”. Caprica did it first.
Had Caprica lasted it would have been really interesting to see more and more people get “resurrected” through the use of their social media profiles. Especially considering how curated a lot of stuff people put online seems to be now-a-days. I definitely would have liked to see them wrestle with whether the persona that’s created from the person’s digital footprint would technically be them or a whole new identity.
I’m Bort, Klytus
Actually, I think Ray Bradbury was the first to give us a hint of this in his 1950 short story “The Veldt” (which subsequently was featured in his 1951 book, “The Illustrated Man”). He was also the first to warn us about the dangers of simulator programs, such as being discussed on this forum.
As soon as I heard her singing I just knew she’d end up doing a duet with Gordon at some point.
Well hey, they can both sing, might as well make use of that.
Bortus & Khlyden fighting is never fun but I did like Khylden’s Red Outfit and I did love the smoking plotline.Also it’s bizarre seeing a holodeck episode where things didn’t catastrophically go to shit on the Holodeck.
No mention of how they had Laura singing a selection from “The Last Unicorn,” of all the song choices they could have made?
Like DAMN that is one HELL of a deep cut and I applaud the creative team for that.
Original version written by Art Garfunkel!
my wife is going to freak when we watch this episode. i can’t wait. she loves that movie (and book.)
I haven’t seen The Last Unicorn since it came out about 800 years ago and I didn’t recognise the song. I thought maybe it was written for the episode. This is the reverse of when I was watching Ted 2 and I thought “is this an Ink Spots song or something?” and was surprised to learn that Seth MacFarlane wrote it.
Man, I knew I recognized the song from somewhere. Thanks for pointing it out!
So, a very skippable episode then. Good to know
The reviewer has a turd for a heart. I thought this was a touching episode. It grew Gordon’s character further as a lonely soul, of which we’ve had hints previously.
I thought this packed in more humanity than any version from the Star Trek franchise.
Have you never seen ‘The Visitor’?
That was an exceptional episode of DS9. This was a standard Orville episode, only more so. So by that rationale, Orville may well have more humanity in it than Trek.
Or “The Inner Light”?
Yeah stories like this get me good. Although I haven’t seen nearly enough Trek to make that comparison.
My turd heart grew three sizes that day I read your comment.
I am giggling like a schoolgirl
And now it’s corny too
Aye. There’s every bit as much room for epic space adventure on a show like this as there is time to slow down and examine ourselves. Between Gordon’s sad, lonely desperation, and the idea of “regular” people being forgotten 400 years later… well, this one shredded me right the hell up. My favorite part was Gordon realizing the world of 2015 was every bit valid and real as their time period is. I felt that immense frustration of LaMarr basically dismissing it and questioning Gordon’s sobriety. It’s a thought I’ve had numerous times when reading old newspapers from the 1800s. Everyone from that era is gone. There’s a whole piece reality that will never come again. Jokes, stories, relationships, traditions — everything that wasn’t explicitly documented: it’s all gone. What does that say about us? Sure, our modern era is a whole lot more documented than the 1800s, but there’s still going to be pieces of US that will be completely lost to time…I’ll grant you this wasn’t a BIG part of the episode, but it did bring it up, and that kind of flavored the rest of the episode. Gordon being kind of a sad, lonely guy, who finds real love… but, cruelly, it’s just an echo of the past, separated by 400 years. Good stuff. Maybe not an “every week” kind of thing, but this episode made more of an impression on me than I’d expected. 😛
In some ways it reminded me of Somewhere in Time, a guaranteed tearjerker for me.
Yeah, my wife has a doctorate in Russian history and is a huge history scholar. She made the same points as you and she cried at the end of the episode.This season has been amazing. I wanted more episodes featuring Malloy now that the super-slapstick of season 1 is gone, and he delivered in this one. A very touching episode.
Well, Jean Shepherd once said, in one his crueler/honest(?) moments, “In four hundred years, you won’t even be a memory.”
Totally agreed; I found myself on the verge of tears, which was really surprising, given the cliched premise. Season 2 of The Orville has quickly catapulted it to one of my favourite shows.
So, you’ve obviously never seen any Star Trek before.
I love the Orville, but I have to admit this wasn’t a good episode.I knew where it was heading about 10 minutes in, and I was dreading it the whole time. It was about as uncomfortable as Janeway falling in love with a hologram in Voyager for a few episodes, and the crew basically saying…”you might as well as have a fake relationship, as there is only 150+ of us on this ship”
I disagree. See the Disco episode of this week for example. These character dedicated episodes often come across embarrassing to me rather than dramatic or meaningful. Maybe it’s the acting, maybe it’s the writing. But I simply couldn’t care less about personal love stories in this series.
I mean, after Bortus breaks the holodeck and the whole ship with bootlegged group sex porn I feel like all bets are off with simulator stuff, although I feel like this would be common territory for long range space military ships. Like, the dangers of fake relationships and porn addiction in the simulator would be something that was so prevalent there would be space pamphlets in the messroom. Not to mention all the jokes about who has to clean up all the jizz in the holodeck.
Yeah, no way was this a C+ episode. I don’t even know why this reviewer bothers. I thought it was one of the better episodes this season and a clever look at both “holodeck” addiction, the loneliness of Morgan and the ingenious way at how the computer created an AI from the iPhone. The “B” story was also hilarious and a welcome step back from some of the more “intense” Moclan plots of this season. Loved the Tuvok cameo and it would’ve been funny (although maybe a little too on the nose) to have a counselor for Morgan at the end played by the actor who played Reginald Barclay. Looking forward to more Trek cameos!
I’m with you on the cigarette plot, even though I kind of knew what gags were going to happen, I was still dying laughing at some points.What makes it so funny is that to everyone on the Orville, it’s a serious issue, but to us it’s hilarious. The Orville as a whole tries to complete the task of blending comedy and drama, to various levels of success. Sometimes things work, sometimes they don’t. That’s why that plot is brilliant, because it blends comedy (to us) and drama (to the crew) seemlessly.That’s why I enjoy Brooklyn 99 so much, it blends both elements seemlessly.
Unlike when Riker fell in love with a holodeck simulation called Minuet (installed as a trap by the Bynars to keep him occupied)?Or when Geordi collected everything the Enterprise databases had on Dr. Leah Brahms, turned that into an interactive holodeck simulation to solve an engineering problem, and fell in love with her?
C+ is an insanely inept review score for this episode. Heaven forbid there is any sincerity and honest human emotions on television.
He should go watch Star Trek Discovery. I’m sure if this was a Mirror Universe episode where Gordon fell in love with a laser wielding ninja version of his dead basketball coach the reviewer would have though it was a super insightful commentary on how dark the human soul is. What a hack!
I’m done with the AV Club reviews of this show.
i thought that was a fantastic episode, one of the best of season 2. i think the review here really sold it short, it was super touching. maybe i just have a fondness for time capsule stories but this one really scratched my existential itch about how we forget those who lived before us were every bit as real and alive, something important to remember about previous technological eras in particular.
And another Voyager alumni, Time Russ, gets a paycheck! Garret Wang, need to pay your rent next month?
I’m waiting on Nichelle Nichols to show up.
Sadly, she has dementia.
I thought she was still doing cons? I have seen her featured on ads recently.
When Gordon walked into her house and she was sitting at the table with her ex, I swore it was Wil Wheaton for a couple of seconds.
YES! You had to remind yourself what year this is, didn’t you?I’m sure it’s why the actor at the casting call got the role (nothing against his talent.) They saw it too.
So did I.
Or Brent Spiner… We could have a Data/Isaac smack-down episode.
Is “Time Russ” his secret time agent code name?
“Ironically, for being all about 2015, this episode has
almost zero 20th century pop-culture references.”This took me out of the episode a bit, in that this show is always making references to pop culture. They know about rental car services running red lights and watch Seinfeld and reality TV and love movies from the time period of the capsule. But we’re supposed to believe they won’t know what WTF means? It’s a cute joke, but given how much the show references stuff like that all the time, it’s pretty obvious they had to cut back on the references for this episode so as not to call attention to how out of place their supposed lack of knowledge would seem in this episode. In that sense, the lack of any pop culture references even within the simulation just seems bizarre, as if Laura was just about her relationships, her job and her singing, and watched no TV shows or movies, read no books and followed no news. Weird
What I found ironic is that Gordon’s lament to kelly that he cant find “ love” but in real life we all know that the two of them are dating each other.
Perhaps the writers know something we don’t.
Also, Gordon can just whip out ‘Goodbye’ by Air Supply and can jam along to Creedence Clearwater Revival while driving a Krill shuttle AND knows all about American Idol but has no idea who Dick Van Dyke AND doesn’t know what a cell phone is? Also, I loved this show and I love this episode because I love watching Scott Grimes act, which he did beautifully, as always. But it was poorly plotted and not well thought out tbh.
Exactly. The Captain is watching The King and I with Yul Brenner so I assume he at least would know who Dick van Dyke is. But his friend Gordon never saw Mary Poppins? I mean, if Disney kept making sequels every 50 years or so then they’d be on about Mary Poppins 8 by the time the show is set, and then the crew could marathon the old movies.
A good joke, but a cheap one based on a name to evoke a Pictionary response if you weren’t aware that was a person.
Plus the fact that Dick Van Dyke is going to be alive 400 years from now……
The fact that the various crew members of the Orville know certain things about the 21st century while not knowing about other 21st century things is normal. They’re human, not Isaac or Data. They know the 21st century things that interest them while being oblivious to the things they haven’t learned about yet or aren’t interested in. Gordon is a singer, so it’s logical that he would have a pretty good grasp on Classic Rock circa 1950-2018 because music is his passion, yet be clueless about WTF means or what a cellphone is. Put it into perspective. How much do YOU know about, say, the 1930’s for example. Do you have a complete encyclopedic knowledge of the decade, or are there holes and gaps in your knowledge. So, that the Orville crew members know some things about the early 21st while being oblivious to other aspects of the time period is not a flaw- it’s human nature.
From sniveling, creepy doctor to creepy, slightly-less-sniveling space pilot, “I love watching Scott Grimes act” is not a sentence I ever expected to read.
I enjoy reading the comments and hearing people’s takes on the show, but the level of precision many seem to expect with such trivial details astounds me.
I wonder if any of those who levy this type of criticism have ever tried to write fiction themselves, and I don’t mean that in a snarky way. I just imagine that If one had written fiction, one would realize that the the amount of time and attention to detail required to iron out these tiny wrinkles of world building would make producing anything damn near impossible.
And in turn, if one had written fiction, it would be pretty easy for one to not let these wrinkles bother them thanks to that perspective. Especially when, as here, the wrinkles don’t affect the emotional thrust of the story.
Maybe not though.
Again, I do enjoy even these comments.
I would say the observation of a writing technique varying from the norm for the series does not necessarily constitute a lack of enjoyment in the piece, or even being bothered by it. It is simply another bullet point in the larger discussion of an analysis of the work, both as a standalone piece of fiction and within the larger context of its place within the series.
I don’t disagree with your thesis here. In fact, I think it’s interesting to think about the points you made regarding the mechanics of story telling. I probably wrongly assumed that you were more bothered by the WTF observation than you actually were.So, perhaps my comment would be better directed elsewhere as there seems to be a lot of nitpicky criticism of the show and I worry that viewers, in getting bogged down in details such as these, aren’t enjoying it as much as they could be.
Almost nothing about this show bothers me.
I get bothered when it’s not on every week.
Almost nothing about this show bothers me.
So it appears Marc Maron’s podcast is not a cultural touchstone in the 24th century…
It’s not even the first time Leighton Meester ever worked with a starship in any form of singing.
Dr. Sherman said it would take 10 years to analyze the data on the cell phone and reads out a text message not understanding the slang. How is it that things like WTF is a mystery when they have access to, and watch, old movies and music regularly? They’re trying to understand what life was ike in 2015, but this isn’t ancient Macedonia. People’s lives are pretty well documented, if not a little too well documented, during our present day. They could track an entire day of a person’s life just by going through social media archives. Hell, several years ago, Twitter gave The Library of Congress an archive of every tweet made up til that point. You can’t tell me that all of that was lost in the 400 years between 2015 and now.
Also, the simulator used what the people were wearing in the pictures as reference. That’s why it seemed the guys were wearing the same type of clothing. If there was a picture of someone cosplaying, then I’m sure we would have seen them dressed like that at the party.
Depends on whatever catastrophe happened between then and now.
We’re only a hundred years or so out from, but no one is sure what the origin of “OK” is?
“Dr. Sherman said it would take 10 years to analyze the data on the cell
phone and reads out a text message not understanding the slang. How is
it that things like WTF is a mystery when they have access to, and
watch, old movies and music regularly?”Easy. Using the 1930’s I mentioned in an earlier post as a reference point for us in the 2010’s, it becomes quite clear how something like that happens.You probably know who Clark Gable is, who Humphrey Bogart is, who Judy Garland is, who Louis Armstrong is,who Billy Holiday is, and are familiar with The Wizard of Oz, Gone With the Wind, and Mr. Smith Goes To Washington – all actors, musicians and films from the 1930’s.But, how are you with 1930’s slang? WITHOUT GOOGLING, do you know what “Aces”, “Chicago Typewriter” or “Cement Overcoat” mean?I ain’t no Abercrombie, and I’m certainly not bumping gums, so give your blinkers a rest dollface.I think you get the point.
This episode set the Star Trek blender to frappe:
• Gordon falling in love with a holographic simulation of a real person is straight out of the Geordi La Forge playbook.• Likewise, his obsession with the simulation seemed to echo Lt. Barclay’s penchant for holo-addiction. I was wondering how what Gordon was doing was any different than Bortus using the simulator for porn, and was glad to see Ed make the same comparison. I liked how the episode tried to make a distinction with Gordon using the excuse that it was supposedly an open-world simulation based on the phone, and then forcing him to walk that back once he realized it was just following her timeline from the phone and Kelly pointing out that once he tinkered with her real-life details then he was just building a fake girlfriend for himself.
• Gordon deleting Greg was pretty much the scene from Voyager’s “Fair Haven” in which Janeway fine tunes her ideal hunky Irish boyfriend by deleting his wife.• Gordon seems to be able to use the simulator whenever he wants, as opposed to the implication in the first season that you had to reserve spots for it. This echoes the Star Trek convention where senior staff members could always find an unused holodeck. And in this episode, Gordon is somehow able to spend the night there without any other crewmember interrupting him saying it’s their time to use the simulator?
• Speaking of which, Gordon falling to the floor when he deactivates the simulation was a good gag (shades of Riker turning off the plank in “Generations”). A nice touch was that his pants and shoes were still there too, on the floor (you can briefly see them after he hits the ground), although they seem to appear out of nowhere since they aren’t there when he’s still in mid air as the simulation dissolves, like the visual effects guys forgot they were on the set when they scrubbed the scene to show the bed dissolving.
• Gordon creating a real-world cell phone and linking it to the simulator was just weird. Like, wouldn’t he just make a simulated phone he could use just in the simulator. The fact that he was getting texts and calls from her in the real world just raised more questions. It gives the impression that he was leaving the program on 24-7, like Vic Fontaine’s lounge. And yet, we saw him turn it off. So, does that mean the simulation is continuing to run virtually within the computer’s memory core (like Moriarty)?
• The idea of using the data from an ancient piece of technology to re-create a historic era reminded me a lot of Voyager’s “Living Witness.” To that end I was thinking Dr. Tuvok would have been fascinated by the re-creation, despite the episode’s implication that he would have disapproved of it. To that end, using advanced computer simulations like that would seem to be one of the first things a historian would do if studying the time period.
• The final bit, with Laura saying the phone was going in the time capsule, indicating the sim was just playing out the story of the phone for Gordon to experience, was a bit like “The Inner Light” and the way that Picard’s simulated life in that episode ended with the launch of the very probe that they encountered to put Picard in the simulation (not that this episode deserves to ever be compared with “Inner Light” on any future best-of lists).
• Gordon creating a real-world cell phone and linking it to the
simulator was just weird. Like, wouldn’t he just make a simulated phone
he could use just in the simulator. The fact that he was getting texts
and calls from her in the real world just raised more questions. It
gives the impression that he was leaving the program on 24-7, like Vic
Fontaine’s lounge. And yet, we saw him turn it off. So, does that mean
the simulation is continuing to run virtually within the computer’s
memory core (like Moriarty)?
I assumed this was the simulation running without the physical aspects on the room being active. The creation of the phone itself kind of implied that in that he asked for it to be connected to the simulation. It was just running without him basically. To simply have a phone while he’s in the simulator would have been practically useless as he was always WITH her in the simulator.It’s possible the simulation was even less sophisticated than emulating when and where she was at any given time and instead ONLY simulated her phone usage as it would related to Gordon.
I was more looking at it from the standpoint that he didn’t need the phone in the real world. He just needed it as a prop in the simulation when he was with her so he would seem like everyone else to her.
Could be he set the computer to keep her virtual life running without the program on. We didn’t see everything he did with the computer.
Why wouldn’t he need a cell phone?Yeah, he could use the ships systems, but that’s almost more conspicuous than a cell phone. Imagine taking a call from your imaginary girlfriend over the ship’s comms system… awkward…
I assume no one ever closes a simulation, they just pause them from time to time. They are always running in the background of computer systems like applications do today, I guessing that if they can run a cell phone for ten years on a single charge, they can run holodeck programs 24/7 on their computers in the background.
That’s exactly what happened. Gordon specifically asked the replicator to link the phone to the simulation. The implication is that the program is still running in the background and enabling Gordon to call / text with it through the linked phone.
Don’t forget Gordon forgetting to put on an appropriate cosplay and explaining his uniform as losing a bet, like Picard in The Last Goodbye.
Though I think that, in most holodeck interactions, the simulated characters are programmed not to notice the real people’s uniforms. Either that or the simulation also provides a costume for the real person. (Though I know that they’ve has scenes with people wearing costumes into the simulation, and then having to go back to work while still in the costumes; I remember Janeway being on the bridge while wearing a dress.)
Yeah, since the only time holo characters seem to notice someone not in costume is when other people have bothered getting into costume, we can assume one of two things: it’s some kind of realism setting that can be toggled, OR every time holo-characters don’t comment on their space pajamas, it’s because the writers forgot. :p
Is it bad that within like 5 seconds of the show starting I was like, “Oh, its gonna be Minuet from ‘11001001′ crossed with ‘The Sound of Her Voice’ for the connecting across time bit.” Turns out they threw in more than a little bit of Dr. Leah Brahms from ‘Booby Trap’, but if they are gonna crib from various other Star Trek episodes, they could have picked a lot of far worse ones.
It also reminded me of Picard’s experience with the probe from the dead civilization where he lives a whole lifetime in an hour.
I love that episode
Yep. That’s “Inner Light”
Kinda reminded me of the detective character in The Expanse and his search for the heiress Julie Mao… the more he learns about her as he tracks her down, the more he develops feelings for her.. have to finish watching this see how it plays out.. great writing and attention to detail on that show..
The episode left me wondering where all the jizz goes. (I know, I’m an intellectual.) Then I wondered where all the ship’s poop and grey water gets to. A show like this could really get into that stuff. If the replicators can just create things by utilizing a generic dump of ready molecules…- A certain percentage would have to be recycled. Which would become more and more gross if the ship were ever faced with a famine.- They would have to receive a new dump of fresh material whenever they make port. And off-load the stuff that was true waste. Importing the fresh material opens up the possibility tainted or corrupted supplies. Pathogens, outer space food poisoning, etc.- They haven’t made it to transporters yet, but if they can replicate and recycle generic material, couldn’t they also focus a beam and disintegrate people or other objects and add them to the storage dump?
The episode left me wondering where all the jizz goes.Don’t eat the mayo in the commisary.
I thought about this too, but these questions have come up with earlier episodes, particularly the Bortus porn episode.
Like, when Gordon deactivates the simulation and falls to the floor, the only things left in the room are the things he came in with.So, when he (presumably) has sex with holographic Laura, does the simulation make him wear a holographic condom because she’s programmed to think about safe sex, not knowing she’s a hologram and that there are actually no STD risks? And even if Gordon is able to raw dog it and doesn’t have to pull out, there’s still the notion of his organic matter being left behind. So if he dissolves the vessel he “released” into, would not the juices of his seed also splat to the floor? (Ugh, the rabbit holes science-fiction can lead us down.)And the recycled waste came up with the Isaac-Claire fall in love episode. Isaac setting off the sprinklers on the bridge would likely have been reclaimed water, meaning he was showering his colleagues in (former) piss.As for bodies being reclaimed matter. Their guns can disintegrate people so this is likely as well. It would be a good way to dispose of a body but I presume the computer would keep records of what was being recycled. So then a killer would have to alter those, and then the alteration is susceptible to discovery.
So, maybe best not to think too deeply about such things. Until the show makes a joke about it. (I still think the simulator needs a joke about a janitor being disgusted by it)
Waste is probably broken down back into the basic elements and stored as such. The computer just pulls from the elements it needs in the replicators. They probably could disintegrate people, but why would they do that?
Per my other comment, the number of questions that these “holo-simulator” situations generate render episodes of shows that contain them generally unwatchable. The issues you bring up are particularly thought-provoking. Particularly nauseating was the above-referenced Vic Fontaine simulation which I found so revolting I’ve never been able to watch DS9 again. (That and a few other aspects of the show not pertinent to this particular subject. )
Seriously. Way back when Jordi brought up “holodeck sickness,” it occurred to me that the whole franchise should dive into this and, really, make a case that human/holodeck interactions should be outlawed. Or at least an extended plot could be spun out involving a faction of society that tries to enact a prohibition on their use. I don’t know if any of the novels went with this, but there’s all kinds of material there – not just in the “Moriarty goes nuts” vein.
Excellent idea. That would be an intelligent use of the holodeck theme I could embrace.
Good list. I was expecting them to hit “The Neutral Zone” while they were at it, exploring the difference between the current timeframe’s culture and the 21st century’s. I suppose the B-plot kinda went there.I don’t mind episodes that are glosses on Trek, but this is a play the show should probably run less often.
I don’t mind when the show echoes stuff that’s been done on Star Trek. That seems kind of the premise anyway and there have been enough episodes of Star Trek and Doctor Who and the like that if you watch enough stuff everything new is going to seem similar to something you’ve already seen (an idea that was the premise of South Park once upon a time when they did “Simpsons Did It”).
That nostalgic feeling evoked by the Orville is one of the reasons I love the show so much. It’s fun to see the different spins they put on old premises, especially when they’re poking fun at them. I guess the only issue would be how much the show is trying skate by on thin execution with the idea that it’s a jokey show, vs how much the creators want us to take it seriously (or not as satire, at the very least), which gets to the heart of the debates a lot of critics seem to be having over the show’s alleged tonal disparities.
• Gordon falling in love with a holographic simulation of a real person is straight out of the Geordi La Forge playbook.
Also totally something Steve Smith would do.
And… still better than Star Trek Discovery (STD)
I thought the weird part was that the computer would be able to do it so easily. That computer should be needing a lot more “parameters.” I also thought what was odd is there’s no way that our globules of data and everything would be destroyed unless the Earth was anniahlated. There are so many books and there’s the internet archival project which is storing this data away in a basement not to mention the Library of Congress and I assume the national equivalent of that for other countries. We have an extremely good picture of what life was like in early 18th century United States or even the Pigrims times. There is no way an archeologist would find a 2015 cell phone particularly interesting.
So if it’s been done a bunch of times, it’s obviously not that awful an idea.
Also, I’m surprised no one has pointed out the 1944 Otto Preminger classic Laura where a private eye falls in love with a dead woman based on his investigation of her . Looks like I’m the most cinematically literate person here.
As for the movie, looks like Seth has probably seen it.The idea of the computer needing more than just the phone occurred to me too, but that’s easier to overlook just for the premise of the show. I mean, I doubt it would take just our phones to create a complete picture of our lives, unless we were like using it to journal everything we did. I suppose it’s supposed to be a commentary about how intertwined our lives are with our technology, and the Orville certainly wouldn’t be the first show or movie to tackle that idea. And obviously shows such as Caprica handled it with some more depth.
But it did make me think about what actually would be on my phone, or any phone, if some random person were to look through it. And really it would just have to be the photos and texts, the calendar, and whatever information from the Internet individual apps stored locally, like with emails or social media. Is that enough for the computer to re-create a personality and give a sense of their life? Their friends’ and family’s lives too.Then I wondered if maybe the computer searched for her in a larger database of Earth history and found her profiles on social media and other things she did on the Internet, like you hinted at with all that data being preserved. And used that to build out the profile. I mean, they did kind of hand wave how Gordon had the computer access the phone for the sake of the premise. It doesn’t recognize it as a storage device, but all Gordon has to do is say it’s a cell phone? And the computer already knows what that is? But didn’t know enough to recognize one when it scanned it?The bit with Gordon asking for an old style Earth phone and getting a 1940s one was pretty funny though. A nice observation about the perspectives of time and context.
Then I wondered if maybe the computer searched for her in a larger
database of Earth history and found her profiles on social media and
other things she did on the Internet, like you hinted at with all that
data being preserved.
Given his obsession for Laura, I thought for sure Gordon was going to do this. But alas, such was not the case. Also, when Gordon told Laura his father’s name and Laura responded that that was her father’s name also (or something like that – forgive me, it was late when I watched the episode and my memory is pretty shot in general) I though for sure Gordon was going to discover that Laura was his great-great-great-great-great grandmother, and the episode was going to turn into a creepy incest version of Back To The Future.
Yeah, the show was kind of boxed into a corner with the motif that people have their time in history and then are otherwise lost to it, aside from whatever artifacts may survive. The whole premise is that an average person of the past is only remembered because she left a piece of herself specifically to be uncovered by people of the future via the artifacts of her time. The idea that everyone (after a certain level of technological advancement) would have an entry in some sort of future “Wikipedia of all humanity” and can be looked up at any time goes against that fleeting quality that really makes the story work here (although, it seems “Star Trek” might have something like that, since who had been in stasis for 300 years was able to look up profiles of their family members and the family tree of the time they missed).
The other alternative, I guess, is to run a algorithm to search the data of all the Union’s computers to compile a complete profile of her using school records, sales receipts, search histories, everything every app she used recorded her doing, but that’s pretty much the story of Cylon resurrection from Caprica. And complicates the story in ways this episode really didn’t need to delve into.Plus, if Gordon could just look her up, it would probably have been the first thing he
would have done. But then, once he learns who she married, if she
raised a family, and how she died, the mystique that fuels his curiosity
diminishes and his incentive to create the simulation of her weakens.
I was also expecting a scene of Gordon looking up the real person and seeing what happened to her, but I guess that goes against the notion of regular people being forgotten that was Laura’s whole reason for leaving the phone in the time capsule. Though I’m sure computers as advanced as the Union’s wouldn’t have trouble assembling a full profile of her life.
I think they found it interesting because it was the life of a single person
Naming the long-dead woman “Laura” seems obvious in retrospect.
I kind of gathered that essentially everything Gordon experienced beyond his specific interactions were things the computer picked up from the phone, including background character dialogue and the settings and sequence of events. The computer just took everything, correlated it by date, and built a scenario, filling in only when necessary. It’s a clever notion.My assumption while watching was that it was going to end with Laura slowly beginning to act erratically and unrecognizably, due to the computer running out of narrative data, and Gordon would find himself forced to acknowledge that however real she’d become to him, she was just a memory. The way it actually played, with the historical scenario playing out despite his insertion of himself into it, also worked for this emotional point though.
Yeah. I suppose maybe Gordon had taken over the role of someone else that Laura dated in between her stints with Greg, like that mutual friend of someone else that Gordon claimed to be to ease himself into the sim.
I found it funny how, after the reintroduction of Greg into the scenario, that the Greg simulation was so accepting of Gordon, as if to say “thanks for banging my girl to distract her while she wasn’t with me.”
Sure. Now please never compare Orville to The Inner Light again. Thank you. 🙂
When I first heard the plot for this episode all I could think was a train wreck waiting to happen, but actually turned out way better than I thought it would. I’m glad Seth pulled back on the humor as last season it always seemed so out of place but now it feels right when it does come in. I also wonder how much of the pictionary party scene got cut out as I get the sense it probably went on longer. Yes, it’s hard not to make Trek holodeck comparisons, but just wait til we actually do get this tech, you’d see some real messed up stuff being done with people letting their fantasies play out (and you can bet most will be sexual related).Big tobacco probably didn’t like the idea of an anti-nicotine injection.
if you had to have a cheap show to produce to save up for the big budget Kaylon war, this was a darn good way to do it..I’m oddly reassured that eventually Apple products will fade into obscurity and social media will be nothing more than a curiosity.
At first I was annoyed at Seth blatantly recycling a Family Guy joke with the Pictionary player latching onto a single guess no matter how many times it gets no response, but then there’s enough of a twist on the original when it’s something completely meaningless and he can’t even explain where he got “cereal guy” from.
I mean, you can go farther back to “baby fishmouth” for that kind of Pictionary depiction. Still always funny.
She could make a fortune AirBNBing that apartment for 6 weeks in July and August during track season, and just crash with Lorenzo.
The commute from Saratoga Springs to Macy’s…ouch. 45 minutes without backup on the highway.
I haven’t seen an 838 area code phone number in the wild yet. It was only introduced very recently, I don’t think it was active yet in 2015. She likely would have had a 518 number.
I now need a hand carved wooden sign over my doorway that says “Bortus’ Sex Lagoon.”
Poon lagoon*
Why would there be 20th century pop culture references in 2015?
It’s funny (actually monumentally sad) that they had to pick 2015 so as to avoid too many depressingly on-the-nose references to Trump.Also, I thought that there might have been an implied commentary about the impermanence of the media formats that we use. Millions of people make millions of recordings, yet Laura’s are the only ones that have survived the centuries.I was a little surprised that Gordon had his backstory as commercial pilot all thought out. He slipped once when talking about his father constructing space stations; I expected a few more flubs when he was talking about himself.Also also, when Gordon told Laura that he was a commercial pilot, the natural response would have been “For what airline?” This would have provided Gordon with an opportunity to make up a (goofy) name on the spot, and then justify it by saying something like “It’s a regional carrier.”
As an ace pilot, he’d know a bit about aviation history. Given that he knows the name of a 21st century car rental company (and the specificity of “21st century” makes me think Avis didn’t make it to the 22nd), it’s not inconceivable that he’d know the names of some 21st century airlines.
That is a good point. It would be plausible for him to know airline names. But it would be funny if he got his precise time periods mixed up, and claimed to work for Pan Am or Eastern.
“I was a little surprised that Gordon had his backstory as commercial pilot all thought out.”He didn’t. He slipped by saying pilot, and when Laura ask commercial or military he has a long “Uhhhhh…” verbal pause.
Ah. Well, I suppose that that’s a reasonable interpretation. I guess I would have preferred to see him hit that pause a little harder.
Watching Leighton Meester be adorable for 45 minutes is all I needed to enjoy the episode.
She was great. Admittedly, this my first time seeing her act so I had to google her because I kept telling myself that she can’t be Minka Kelly, but maybe she is? Turns out Meester/Kelly being lookalikes is an internet thing and I got caught in it.
I recommend checking out Single Parents; you also get Brad Garrett and Jake Choi, so what do you have to lose?
Exact same reaction/experience. Knew the name, never watched anything she was in, thought she was a Minka Kelly/Amy Acker hybrid, and was smitten for 45 minutes.
Meester / Kelly are this generations’ Susan Sarandon / Leslie Ann Warren.
Yessss
I’d like to marry her and take her last name so people have to call me “Mister Meester”.
Hey, any chance he gets to sing, I’m down to watch!
“Ironically, for being all about 2015, this episode has almost zero 20thcentury pop-culture references.”
True, but, 2015 is in the 21st century!
I’m not so sure future people would be creeped out by Gordon being into his “sim-life”. I mean, its not much different than a lot of the tech we have now. Some people would die without their smartphones and some are just “eh”. I imagine a lot of people in the future would love doing the sim-life while others would pass, but not necessarily think its bad or uncomfortable.
As the Orville train rolls along, I have fewer and fewer complaints. In truth, I was prepared not to like the show very much in the beginning. I’ve always had a problem with injecting too much humor into science fiction and fantasy. Part of the reason is because there has always been such a struggle to have it taken seriously in the first place. So watching the show was more out of curiosity than a real anticipation. But Seth MacFarlane has done an outstanding job of blending both humor and science fiction with science fact. The one complaint that I do have, however, is Gordon Malloy. I’ve always had the feeling that his role is one of those engineered by the creator (Mcfarlane) to include his “best pal”somehow. And it shows…. a lot. I believe he also serves as an outlet for Seth MacFarlane’s subconscious tendency toward sophomoric (at times) humor. Most of Gordon’s jokes fall flat whether people want to admit it or not. In fact I would say 80% of the one liners don’t really work. He also seems to be a neurotic, insecure person at times. And this episode only served to exacerbate that. I actually found it kind of sad that he would fall in love with a simulation on a ship full of women (by the way, nine out of every 10 people fantasizes about or attempts to become a singer in their lifetime. Couldn’t they have found something a bit more unique for her to aspire to?). Previously, he could never decide exactly why he wanted a promotion from helmsman to Captain, except to try to impress people. Scott Grimes is actually an excellent actor and singer, and I feel that this character is a misuse of his true talents. I fully understand that you’re not going to be able to run 10 Kaylon invasion- level episodes in a season, but I believe that the other characters personal lives and interactions are handled much better. Actors like Peter Macon and Penny Johnson Jerald have a bit more range it seems, and it reflects in their characters plotlines. Gordon Malloy seems to be…… Gordon Malloy all the time. His best showing was the episode where his friend and former p.o.w turned out to be a revenge driven murderer. If Scott Grimes is going to keep up with his cast mates, they have to write better things for him to say and do.
Oh.A Gordon episode.
I’d bump it to a B– I also actually found this one of the more competently-executed episodes, especially when viewed in a vacuum, and the ending with the bad flash photo (very 2015) was actually surprisingly poignant.As for BortDen (KlyDus?), I consider them one of the most realistic depictions of a real loving marriage on television. They’re just like my folks: still going at each other’s throats after 40+ years.
As soon as the character on the phone was named as “Laura”, I knew exactly where Seth was going to go: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0037008/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1
I kinda thought the show was heading towards Laura becoming self aware and freaking out, which would have been super dark, but could have been played for some dark laughs, and I think could have a just slightly more interesting premise.
This episode had a few structural problems, as “holodeck” stories always do (this crew knows a ton about the 20th-21st centuries until they don’t), and it true that you have seen similar stories a lot if you are a Star Trek fan (Geordi and Lea Brahams etc.). But…..I was charmed by this. Scott Grimes was excellent, and (as the review discusses) handling interpersonal relationships continues to be a strength of the show.Also, while I generally agree that Bortus and Klyden fighting constantly has grown rather tedious, I thought last night’s version of that was really funny. Mr. Macon and Mr. Coleman did a fantastic job with the verbal and physical comedy, and it was delightful.Finally, the music choices (and performances!) on this show continue to be excellent. I know mileage varies, but this episode was better than a C plus effort for me.
I give it a B- it wasn’t as bad as a C+.
It did feel like a patchwork of ST holodeck episodes…but I didn’t really mind (wanst a Voyager one with Janeway doing her Godlike thing on that Irish village cause she had fell for one of the characters? I dreaded this episode. And the village, lol)
The B Story was the funniest thing I ve seen in Orville so far. I am not too fond of Seth’s humour, but this time I was laughing out loud with every cigarette scene.
I thought this episode was kind of dull as well, although I did wonder if it was a minor tribute to the 1944 classic movie “Laura” which was excellent. Gordon is a good character, but this felt like it was written by a lovelorn 12-year-old girl and should have been the secondary story to a more interesting plot. I’m among those fans who would like to see more episodes devoted to something besides the personal angst of the crew members. Most of the other “Star Trek” incarnations managed to have some ongoing character development without sacrificing actual plots and it would be nice to see “The Orville” copy that aspect of the franchise too.
Me after watching this episode
Talla’s grunge/hipster outfit was FANTASTIC!!!! Just loved it from the flannel tied at the waste to the knit beany.
The use of the knit beanie reminded me of Spock in “The City on the Edge of Forever.”
yes I had same thought!
And with no need for the cringingly-bad “mechanical rice-picker” excuse for her ears….
She looked FINE. Like… wow.
It was nice to see the four of them out of uniform. We don’t see that very often.
Adrienne Palicki……
Rewatched, not tied flannel but a long flowing light colored sweater.
I love the show. I do not care that much of the stories are from old star trek episodes. I loved those back in the day. They were so long ago that grown adults have never seen any of them. I really hope more people see and enjoy this show and go back and watch stuff from the 60s-90s.
Well you’re certainly generous with your appraisal. All I saw was an excuse to save money on an ep (“Look boss! No need for sets and costumes and barely any CGI!”) after some spectacular previous efforts. The ep practically wrote itself since you could tell from the very beginning where the plot was going. But considering how The Orville will tell a story during an hour with a beginning, middle, and end while all other shows are simply soap operas which drag out 10 minutes’ of plot for an hour with no resolution–continued to the next ep of course—MacFarlane still deserves big credit for going against the easy flow.
I mean society would just collapse if we had the holodeck wouldn’t it? I know I would never leave.
I’d probably like this episode more if it was revealed that The Orville is actually stealthily building toward an overarching theme on the destructive and addictive nature of simulations, a’la Strange Days or Existenz.
Oh man, Strange Days was one of favorite movies in the 90’s. Hadn’t thought about it in a while until now though, thanks.
Been having a bit of a nostalgic longing to watch that again lately, but no one has it up for streaming atm. My mid/late-90s friend circle was of a fatalistic bent and loved anything millennial/apocalyptic, we probably played that movie a dozen times back then.
Did you watch Reverie? It was about that, and it wasn’t very good, wasting Sarah Shahi.
I finally watched it on Hulu and I liked it.
I could watch Sarah Shahi wash a dog and it wouldn’t be wasted time…
Maybe the Orville is just a simulation itself!
So if Orville ends up doing that would you change the C+ grade you gave this episode? 😉
Bortus and Klyden discovering cigarettes is easily my favorite B-plot this series has done.
I wondered if we were going to find out that she was Gordon’s great-great-great--grandmother or something when Gordon mentioned that his grandfather’s name was Greg, especially after we learned that Laura and her Greg got back together.On a related note, I was kind of hoping that Gordon would do a Union database search to find out what happened to her after she put the phone in the time capsule, and learned that she had a happy, ordinary life (there always seems to be the temptation to go big with that sort of thing, like “OMG she became a fabulously successful musical artist” rather than something that rings true). It could have been as simple as him performing the search, and smiling as he read what came up on the screen.But yeah, I loved it. “The Inner Light” is maybe my favorite TNG episode, so I’m a sucker for that kind of thing.
Maybe Only Amusing To Me: Her phone had both full wifi and 2 bars of cell in the 25th century.
A little disappointed they went with a USA Today instead of an Albany Times Union, or even a Saratogian.
A few more thoughts from me, after ruminating on this episode for a while.
Again we saw that a character had sex in the simulator, just as Dr. Finn had previously done with Isaac. Gordon even slept in the simulator all night, without worrying that someone was going to walk in on him, even though we saw Isaac walk in on Gordon and John while the two of them were bowling in the simulator, and we saw Klyden walk in on Bortus when Bortus was cavorting with his bevy of holo-boy-toys. The show really needs to address the question of locking the simulator door; we need a scene in which someone tries get into the simulator but cannot because someone else is using it, just to establish that using it in private is possible.Gordon’s act of bringing everyone into the simulator to meet Laura and her friends showed that he didn’t think what he was doing was weird or creepy in any way; he was doing it honestly, and he wanted to share his good experience with his friends. And they might have been a little more understanding of the emotional impact that the whole thing was having on Gordon! For them to try to keep him grounded in reality was worthwhile; but they were far too dismissive. And I didn’t understand why Ed got annoyed with Laura’s friends, who did not behave in a bad way. But I loved the Dick Van Dyke joke! We don’t want to know what Gordon drew for that! The B-story, about Bortus and Klyden getting hooked on cigarettes, was not so good. I cannot state strongly enough how sick I am of those two and their dysfunctional relationship. These are adults? The show should have had the courage to let them break up. The time to do that was when Klyden stabbed Bortus. Ed and Kelly needed to tell Bortus that, on a Union ship, everyone has to live by Union rules; and Bortus should have been professional enough to accept this. This would have allowed better uses of Bortus, and would have preserved the character’s power. Unfortunately, the writers have undermined Bortus’s character by showing him so often in ridiculous and even childish lights.
It is a realistic depiction of marriages where one person cheats on another but the couple stays together because of the kids. Bortus explained in an earlier episode he can’t forgive Klyden for supporting Topa’s sex change. Moclans don’t have divorces (at least where both people live). Resentment and bitterness. That’s how the real world works. A divorced couple serving together as captain and first officer is ridiculous.
Did Nick lose his MAGA hat at Perkins? Two weeks of non-glowing reviews of Seth MacFarlane,s finest excrement
This episode was crap and proves how little budget the show has. I bet they can’t write a single episode without resorting to simulator hijinks.
C+? wtf, this episode was a B- or a B.
For what it was, I thought it was a solid episode. I remember reading how Scott Grimes had said he didn’t want to have a “Character” episode for Gordon, but truthfully, Gordon really deserved to be fleshed out. Having him be more than comic relief, him actually embracing 2015 as opposed to viewing the 21st century as more than just an exhibit in a science museum is what had me invested. Also, Leighton Meester was a solid choice for Laura mainly because she does have a great voice and she was in Making History, so she’s used to the whole time travel premise. I’ll admit that while seeing Bortus and Klyden come to blows over their cigarette addiction was funny even if Klyden has been irritating as of late, however, two aliens chain smoking like Patty and Selma a good B story does not make. Your point about the audience being tired of the character driven stories doesn’t make sense. I’d argue otherwise because without fleshing out the characters and giving us things to actually like or hate about them we’re pretty much stuck with only the space exploration portion of the show to get excited about, and the stakes wouldn’t be as high. Overall, I think Seth MacFarlane has really captured what Star Trek had done before and with 50 additional years of history not to mention how technology has advanced, he’s been able to make a pretty solid love letter to what Star Trek is. And having this episode was a great example of how you can meld the 21st and 25th centuries and not have it come off as “Family Guy in Space”.
Unfortunately it doesn’t really flesh him out much. Its just an ep that gives him something to do. We don’t learn much more about him than his grandfather’s name.
“but it’s not particularly fun just watching the two of them fight all the time.”Wrong. A LOT of human relationships are like that. With the Moclans being all men, it made even more sense. Two gay men might not fight like that, but that’s exactly what two straight men would do.
I enjoyed this episode quite a bit. It was not trying to anything other then tell a good story and give character building to, to me, the break out character of Orville- Gordon. Like Scotty or Jordi, an every day kinda Joe. The episodes this 2nd season have been an enjoyable watch.
I actually thought this was pretty good, and a nice respite from all the heavy Kaylon and Krill stuff – I still think The Orville jumped the gun on the Kaylon turning point way too soon. But I agree that it didn’t seem particularly ambitious, and I think part of the problem was that they let the computer demonstrate far too much competence. Instead of acting like the crew’s best guess at someone from 2015, “wireless telecommunication facility” and all, Laura acted like…an aspiring musician and retail worker from 2015. Sure, there was a lot of data on her phone, but I find it hard to believe that there was enough to nail her down like that, and yes, crew members finding intimacy with a simple simulation is territory we’ve already explored.It would have been more interesting to get the Dr. Leah Brahms treatment, to put it in Trekkie terms – hell, I was half expecting a big twist where they found the actual Laura in cryogenic stasis or something and she turned out not to be the person Gordon had pictured at all. But at the very least, they could have done MORE. Exposed the truth of her simulated nature to her, given her a taste of the 25th century, hell, they could have created tension by having Tim Russ’s character demand the simulation Gordon had created for research and introduced some kind of plot element that would force him to give her up instead of just making a copy.But…it was enjoyable as it was. More so than some of the other filler episodes, and even some of the ones that made big swings. I’m not really a big fan of Gordon, and I still find him a little off-putting now, but I feel like I empathize with him and understand him a little better now. As a character piece exploring his curiosity and loneliness it was nice. And now we wait three weeks for the next one.
Ironically, for being all about 2015, this episode has almost zero 20thcentury pop-culture references.It would have been a nice touch if they learned what WTF actually meant.
I’d give the episode a B+ at minimum. I found the Gordon storyline surprisingly poignant, and I found the B-story about the Moclan love for cigarettes hilarious. The expressions on Klyden’s face were particularly great, especially when he ate the cigarette. There were many small, funny gags throughout the episode, like Gordon’s reaction when the replicator made the 1950s-era rotary phone and the crew’s general acknowledgement of Bortus’ “Sex Lagoon”. I think I laughed more during this episode than during any other Orville episode. Overall, I think this was a very good small scale (and budget saving) episode. It was much more enjoyable than most TNG holodeck-centered episodes, which tended to be the worst TNG had to offer.
This episode somehow managed to be both creepy and boring.
““On the verge of a catastrophic climate collapse and they’re dedicating a whole page to teeth whitening.” I’m not being sarcastic when I say that kind of blunt, inelegant messaging is one of my favorite things in sci-fi shows.”It’s always funny to me when people complain about stuff like that, or “SJW Crap!” on sci-fi shows, when those kinds of things have been a hallmark of sci-fi since the beginnings of sci-fi. it’s like these superfans have never watched a single episode of any star trek show, ever.
I’m a LITTLE surprised that they didn’t at least do a few seconds on having to figure out the passcode to unlock the phone. Though i suppose it’s possible Laura would’ve turned that off to put it in the time capsule. Leaving the security on WOULD be kind of a dick move to the future people.
I mean, if this ep were really going for realism when building a simulation out of the contents of someone’s phone, every time Gordon stepped into the simulator he’d be walking into a scenario where everyone was taking photos of their food.
OK, Gordon’s stuff was a bit creepy, and a bit boring, and a bit predictable, yip, we’ve seen it all in various Trek incarnations.But.Klyden and Bortus.The scene that starts at the airlock and finishes at “Loosely!” must be the most wickedly funny shit I’ve seen in a live-action scifi show. Like ever. By the end of that scene, I was literally in tears (and figuratively in stitches) from laughing. Those two sell comedy so perfect.
This episode had its flaws, but the central conflict of Gordon’s relationship with Laura was quite moving.
I found this episode both creepy and touching. It was amazingly touching and poignant as most of us don’t want to be forgotten by our own family much less history. As we know we still will be unless we become notable in some way. The way the AI picked that thread up and built it in to there was amazing. The writers hit a very deep note with this aspect. Gordon’s talk with Kelly when she talks about how relationships shape us was so spot on. Gordon has been changed just by meeting her. Just like Isaac has been changed by being part of the crew. Make no mistake all these relationship plays especially with AI, different species and different philosophies are going to come into play with the Kaylon, Moclans, Krill and I suspect a couple surprises. Everything they do keeps interweaving with big and small payoffs as the show progresses. Now as for why it was creepy. Gordon created a fully functional AI from her personal data and got very intimate with it. I don’t mean the just the sex stuff, the reality of the lack of autonomy her AI personality was treated with even as he professed his love. It was really another great example of not thinking through the consequences of how we treat the very tech we interact with. Which illustrates another way to the Kaylon and other AI could perceive how we would mistreat artificial life forms. Also taking into account this was a person to Gordon on top of it. Not even an AI to him and he still deleted parts of her at first in jealousy. Quite creepy the whole thing overall for so many reasons and a good warning. It’s interesting both The Orville and Discovery are dealing with AI in such huge ways this season. Both with huge implications. I wish there were 10 more episodes though not just 3 for the season.
Thoughts:I thought the stuff in the time capsule looked too new, too pristine. Even stuff that comes out of a time capsule after a few decades (my former primary school recently opened one that we had buried in 1979) look rather rough and weathered.This episode was a massive plug for Apple iPhones. I wonder if they unofficially sponsored the show?I am *really* over Moclan centered storylines… I could not have cared less that they got addicted to ciggies. I also wish they’d kill off Klyden for good just so I don’t have to see him again. (What *does* he do onboard to earn his keep?)I feel they missed an opportunity in the storyline. It’d have been nice at the end of the episode for Gordon to do an historical data search for what really became of Laura after 2015. Maybe someone like Kelly or the Doc or Lamar could have done it for him? There must be some records that still exist even after 400 years. That would have been a nice closing shot of Gordon browsing through Laura’s history and subsequent life as we (perhaps) faded away or pulled out through a window and then switched to an external shot of the Orville zooming off to its next adventure.
Tired retread of a Trek plot. How often did we get ‘too immersed in holodeck’ stories? Plus Gordon (who I don’t find adorable, as I am clearly supposed to) manipulates and inveigles himself into Leighton Meester’s life in a very creepy way. Nice to see Tim Russ – I recognised that voice straight away but neither the A not the B plot worked for me,
Generally puke inducing. I fast forwarded the predictable end. This episode joins the other episodes of shows with “simulations” or “holodecks” as generally too idiotic to bother watching again with enough plot holes to put Swiss cheese to shame. I understand that the writers get bored with the same space setting each week and the actors want to wear different costumes and act out different characters, but these episodes strain credulity and are generally monumentally stupid. (Maybe this was not monumentally stupid, just hokey and regular stupid.) Bortus and his partner smoking and then trying to quit was hilarious, but too much of this and you’ve got “I Love Lucy” in space. As it is, it’s pretty much “Love American Style: 2400!” Finally, kudos to the writers for an episode completely free of those goddamned kids.
When the officers said that Isaac was different because he was self-aware, I thought that maybe Gordon would tell Laura that she was a simulation and she would become a character like The Doctor on Voyager.
When the officers said that Isaac was different because he was self-aware, I thought that maybe Gordon would tell Laura that she was a simulation and she would become a character like The Doctor on Voyager.
Of all the references, no “The Sound of Her Voice”?
“as anyone who’s ever stepped on a bug while time-travelling to a prehistorical era can tell you”#relatable
Going to date myself badly here, but while watching the episode I started thinking of the old Christopher Reeve film Somewhere in Time (1980) about a man who falls in love with a museum photo of a woman and then travels back in time to meet her.
There was totally a 20th Century Pop Song Reference. She is singing the love song from THE LAST UNICORN (1982), “That’s All I have to Tell You”.
It was a very specific reference.
I concur with Nick’s C+ grade for the episode. As a story, the notion of leaving a smart-phone in a time capsule so as not to be forgotten by future generations is sappy. Laura’s (and others) subsequent dialogue defending this notion was even sappier. The story falls under the “delusions of grandeur” category, and I find these types of stories, sci-fi or otherwise, incredibly pretentious. You live. You die. You’re forgotten. That’s life. Deal with it. So, yeah, I wasn’t too invested in this episode; it reminded me of all the things I’ve come to dislike in a Ken Burns documentary (“My beloved, when this damned war between the states is over, we’ll do each other on the White House lawn, order corn-beef sandwiches from Yo Mama’s Deli in D.C. and dine upon the shores of the Potomac. Don’t tell your husband and I won’t tell my wife! Signed, Joe Blow, 5th Vermont Infantry.”) Blah, blah, blah. Yeah, don’t care.However, the story does stand out as a very clever satirical dig about how self-absorbed we, in 2015 and beyond, are with video games in general, and internet games in particular. That Gordon completely loses his sense of reality while being consumed by the simulator “Laura game” he created pretty much sums up the monster that we, as a species, have created with our own internet gaming addiction. One look at the forum of my own personal internet gaming addiction drives the point home. Some posts from players clearly show how self-absorbed they have become. They take the game way too seriously and have lost all touch with reality because of it. In short, they need to disconnect and get a real life- just like Gordon. Another interesting social commentary brought out by the story is that we no longer play games face to face with each other (Pictionary reference- hint, hint). We’ve taken the personal element out of gaming and substituted it with the cold, impersonal logic of computer AI. Human-to-human gaming interaction is quickly becoming a thing of the past. Does anyone actually play Pictionary anymore? The script writing for this episode is the best I’ve seen for the series thus far. Although I’m not invested in the story, the script writing was fluid from start to finish. There were no quirky conversation exchanges, no plot gaps (almost), and no rushed episode conclusions. The dialogue was smart and natural (as opposed to forced and contrived). Overall, the script-writing team is really starting to shine. They made a mediocre story look pretty damn good. Kudos.Another aspect of the episodes script writing that I liked was the use of the A-story/B-story formula. Splitting the episode between Gordon’s A-story and Bortus-Klyden’s B-story was superbly executed. Well done! Kudos. It really reminded me of the A-story/B-story formula that was used very effectively in the Disney TV series “Hannah Montana” and “The Suite Life of Zach & Cody.” Which is odd that it reminded me of this considering Disney just bought Fox. Perhaps a coincidence, perhaps not.Scott Grimes (Gordon) is really starting to impress me. Tonight he showed more acting depth and range, and has quickly convinced me of his A-list acting capabilities. I hope he has a long and prosperous career. I also hope The Orville has a long series run, it’s put my faith back in scripted TV programs.
One final thought. I have a slight problem with tonight’s story: How the heck did a time capsule from Up-State New York get on the Orville? And, where was it going? It made no sense.
Three years late but yes this is what I was scrolling for. There’s absolutely no explanation for why the time capsule is on a spaceship, or why it would be opened on board.
As an addictive person, it was interesting to see multiple lines of addiction drawn here. Gordon is mentally addicted, refusing to admit the truth. But he’s also physically addicted to the hormones flowing through him. Bortus is physically addicted to a literal chemical. And the punchline is that “if addiction was a medical disease we’d have a medicine for it”. So in multiple ways, the episode was talking about how addiction is both a physical and mental problem that require treatment in different forms.
I’m sort of curious why you write reviews for a show you obviously don’t like? After watching and enjoying all of season 1 I find season 2 even better. With the exception of maybe 2 episodes I have been left with tears in my eyes they were so good. I would venture to say you probably enjoy that horrendous STD show. I admit I watch it too. I always watch STD first so I can appreciate just how bad a Star Trek show can be and then I watch The Orville and I am overjoyed with how great it could be. You must be watching it backwards. Please find some other hobby beside writing bad reviews for good shows. They must not be paying you enough to write this propaganda if you’re not actually watching the show.
I thought this episode was well written touching and heartbreaking all together. Man sometimes these A.V. club reviews are just plain harsh lmao
I’ll second the “No Trisha, it’s not” line reading. That – and especially the short pause before it – was absolute gold. Had to pause the show for about 30 seconds, we were laughing so hard.