Who is left for us to root for on House Of The Dragon?
The Game Of Thrones spinoff prequel keeps getting rid of its most likable characters and making the ones who are left even worse, but does that matter?
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We’re only seven episodes into House Of The Dragon and so far we’ve lost just about every character worth cheering for. Some of them were introduced and almost immediately killed off, some were with us from the beginning but barely got any consideration before being rudely dispatched. And the characters we were supposed to like are the ones doing the dispatching. This duality may be a trademark of George R.R. Martin’s work, but even on Game Of Thrones, there was always someone you wanted to see prevail, whether it was Tyrion, Arya, Jon, Daenerys, Brienne, or someone else. We haven’t really gotten characters like that in the new show, and it’s kind of a bummer.
In “Driftmark” Rhaenyra and Daemon plotted to get rid of Ser Laenor Velaryon—almost immediately after his sister’s death—by way of his lover, Ser Qarl Correy. Leanor may have sailed away unscathed, but it’s likely we’ll never see either of them on the show again. Laenor was a good father to Rhaenyra’s children, he tried to do his duty to the realm. He did nothing wrong except stand in the way of an incestuous marriage that would strengthen Rhaenyra’s claim to the Iron Throne. Now he’s effectively gone.
Will this turn more fans against Daemon? His misdeeds keep adding up, making him harder to like with each new scheme. Yet even after he straight-up murdered his wife Lady Rhea in episode five, he’s still got a certain segment of the audience in his corner. When he confronted the “bronze bitch” in the Vale the scene cut away before we saw him answer her taunt to finish the job. Would it have made a difference if he’d done it on screen? Later in the episode, there’s a mirror of that incident when Ser Criston Cole bludgeons Ser Joffrey Lonmouth to death. This time it’s shown in full, bloody detail. Perhaps that difference has something to do with Daemon’s continued popularity while Criston, another character who seemed appealing at first glance, is pretty universally reviled. Why should Daemon be held to a lesser standard?
After the time jump, we were briefly reacquainted with Ser Harwin “Breakbones” Strong, the father to Rhaenyra’s three sons. He was a welcome upgrade from Criston, though he is later killed off in the same episode, along with his father, Lord Lyonel Strong, the Hand of the King. That’s two more good and honorable characters written off the show. Meanwhile, scoundrels like Criston Cole and Larys Strong live on without consequences. At least, so far.
As for everyone else? Alicent pretends she’s above it all, but she was ready to cut out a little boy’s eye with her own hand. No longer content to shoot daggers at Rhaenyra metaphorically, she’s attacking her with real ones now. Her overambitious father is back on the job as Hand of the King, and back to his manipulative ways. Viserys is old and weak and even as he bellows at his squabbling family, they all know he prefers to ignore conflict rather than confront it head-on. Lord Corlys’ ambition will never let him get over the fact that his wife was passed over in the line of succession, while Rhaenys, the Queen Who Never Was, has resigned herself to living in the world as a second-class citizen. Who does that leave us to root for at this point? The children? Alicent’s boys are violent and entitled, but the rest haven’t done anything too horrible yet. You can’t rest an entire show on the shoulders of a handful of not-terrible adolescents, though.
Or maybe that’s the greater point here. House Of The Dragon forces us to ask the question of whether we need someone to identify with in order to enjoy a story. Will fans continue to tune in to watch two factions of terrible people fighting each other to rule a kingdom without any investment in who wins? We’ll have to wait and see. In reality, history doesn’t always give us true heroes and villains, but it sure gives us good stories.
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Maybe it was my settings but those post funeral night scenes were rough. Did they use Day For Night shots? Did not look great
Considering the weather at night where this series was shot (its always raining) obviously they use that special effect. “Nope” and Battle of Winterfel use this special effect too.
My reaction: “This must be a very significant scene, pivotal to the plot, like the Battle of Winterfell. You can tell, because it’s so dark you can’t see anything happening.”
This show always looks grey and depressing. It needs to go to Dorne or somewhere to add some color to it
Yeah, “day for night” is not classed as a “special effect” at all. It is the term, since the very earliest cinema, for the methodology of shooting “night scenes” during the day. The regular crew uses their standard-arsenal tools of lighting, lensing, editing and production design, and the necessary darkening and color-correcting digitally in post, to portray night-time.
I was thinking that as well. Those scenes looked mega washed out, like I turned my contrast on my TV all the way down.
It looked terrible, to the point where I turned off the show, and loaded other apps on my Apple TV to see it it was my issue or theirs.
It was so dark I thought I was watching a DC superhero movie.
They were awful and yes, they were shot day for night. Bigger issue is that Miguel Sopochnik directed it. He also directed the long night episode of GOT that no one could see.
Same director for both episodes making stupid “creative decisions”.
Having read the source material, nope basically nobody is remotely likable, there’s nobody to root for since basically nobody wins and the prize is something made unimportant by the time the main series rolls around. Its both a prequel problem and a problem caused by the source material being a history book. There could have been anecdotal stories of Alicent I don’t know, befriending a homeless soldier for a season or something but its the type of thing that wouldn’t be in a broad history book and the writers didn’t see a point in adding any such tales.
“There could have been anecdotal stories of Alicent I don’t know, befriending a homeless soldier for a season”There’s at least 43 more episodes of this show to go, at minimum. Plenty of time to fill in the margins.
I strongly suspect the series will be at most 3 seasons, 2 if they rush the Dance of Dragons hard. Then its either tell more Targarian stories like Baelor the Blessed or we just stop.
Oh, I don’t think we’re extending beyond the Dance of the Dragons. I expect it’ll end not long after Aegon III is crowned. That said, I don’t think it would possibly end in 2 seasons, short of an abrupt cancellation. We’re only at about a chapter of source material covered here so far. The Dance of the Dragons lasts like 6 or so chapters in Fire & Blood. They’re rushing through time on this because it’s essentially just backstory that they’re electing to show. I don’t think they’ll continue this pace in the future seasons.
If I recall, Fire and Blood the book ends not long after The Dance of the Dragons. Sequel book still not written because GRRM gonna be like that. I frankly hope that the pacing slows next season. The pacing is one of the aspects I genuinely loath.
Oh, I don’t think we’re extending beyond the Dance of the Dragons. I expect it’ll end not long after Aegon III is crowned.I’m curious how they’ll handle Viserys II’s fate. It’d seem odd to stop the story there and never have that reveal.
See, it’s thinking like that why you’ll never be a TV exec.
oh god 43 more episodes of darkness in the dark that makes me more confused and more characters I can’t recall names of
I seem to remember one knight later in the story that is legit heroic, and another female character that might not be heroic but is easy to root for.
This was the first episode that really felt like Game of Thrones, and youre complaining???? Daemon is one of the more likable characters, which shows you how fucked everything is.
Likeable people don’t survive in this world. The best we can get is Laenor sailing away to a happier life, where he isn’t dead but functionally out of the story. There are interesting characters though, which is important.
My issue us that no one seems competent to rule. In GoT you kinda hoped that Tyrion, Margery or Sansa would end up on the throne because they all showed varying degrees of capability by the end. But on this show no one does, I am not saying we need to spend hours on the economic of Westeroes, etc. But at this point I just feel that, yes, Rhaenyra is facing sexism but also hasn’t proven herself to be any better at ruling than the men.
I will also concede this is a show I do spend picking up my phone a lot so maybe I am missing character beats.
The key being, “by the end.” You mention Sansa, who ended up being one to root for, but in the first season was one of the most horrible people on the show. I haven’t read the source materiel for this one, but hopefully someone will be worth rooting for at some point.
But there was always someone to root for. There were worthy people to root for since Season 1 and while we rooted for them, we watched Sansa grow as a person. The ones we rooted for in Book 1 died but were replaced by other worthy ones (who mostly also died) and, especially, there was always someone who has so ridiculously unworthy that anyone who could bring down his house was easy to cheer for.
“My issue us that no one seems competent to rule.”Pretty much the point when your system of governance is feudalism.
Why would feudalism means no one is competent to rule? There were plenty of competent rulers in the historical feudal area. (Also evidently historians tend to talk about manorialism and vassalage these days, rather than feudalism)
“Why would feudalism means no one is competent to rule?”It wouldn’t. It is going to produce a lot of incompetent rulers since the qualifications are so low, however.
For sure. And I think the show/Martin’s writing has done a decent job showing that. Between Alicent and Rhaenyra, it’s hard to say Rhaenyra is the hero. She also seems destined to be a horrible ruler since she can’t see past herself. But… Alicent’s kids are complete trainwrecks, whereas Rhaenyra’s now seem to be shaping up to be fairly decent. That’s the rub with inherited power.
In reality all the Targeryeans are shitty people, just like Dany. Westeros’ should have abolished the iron throne after she was killed.
Impossible to abolish the throne when you have an actual God in the Three Eyed Raven who can manipulate space and time now sitting on the throne of Westeros. Now why would an actual God want to rule a realm instead of the actual world is another story that B & W couldn’t tell correctly if there careers depended on it.
Agreed. It’s this strange idolization of authoritarianism. I guess a lot of people want to be told what to do, and not have to think for themselves.From the start, there really wasn’t anyone to root for in this show. Not a single one of the major characters.
I mean, we will have to see how Martin writes it, but they did essentially eliminate it in GOT. Bran is an elected monarch, with a promise to have an elected monarch going forward. That’ll likely hold true for Bran, since he’ll have no heirs, and then it’s presumably up to human nature whether that holds or whether someone takes power and tires to hold succession in their line. The feeling I got was it wouldn’t hold, and history repeats since the wheel was never broken really.
I don’t think it’s an issue of hoping somebody brings enlightened despotism to Westeros but that nobody seems to care about Westeros at all. We’re supposed to be rooting for Rhaenyra (I think) but she doesn’t show any actual signs of being capable of winning the throne, let alone ruling. Her speech about making people fear her to be an effective ruler was not a plus in her favor. If only she had a little Margaery to her.It goes to a larger issue of the show in that it’s not quite clear why we should be rooting for anyone. As far as we can tell, the Targaryen’s big claim to ruling is they have dragons. There’s no sense of how effective they are at ruling and how they’re seen and felt throughout Westeros. Do the Starks and Lannisters really care about who is ruling? Do they like the Targaryen’s? Or will they greet whatever happens with a shrug and hope they all kill each other?
I think the problem is with the system, not with the storytelling. Attaining power in Westeros is ultimately a matter of convincing people you have a valid legal claim to power, not convincing them you will wield it better. They are not completely separate spheres, as one of the ways to convince some people to support your legal claim is to convince them you will wield the power best. But “Pick me, because I will make life better for everyone” just isn’t really the way to claim power, so it’s not altogether surprising that none of the characters vying for the throne really claims to deserve it because of what they will do when they get it (except maybe Daeny, I guess).
Also for some weird reason, it felt like teenage Rhaenyra had more going on behind her eyes, and would be capable of some pretty cunning leadership one day. Adult Rhaenyra just looks exhausted.
That’s what having kids will do to you.
There’s one thing that’s missing still: characters who haven’t been introduced yet. In this case, I’m talking about the children of Rhaenyra and Daemon.I’ll avoid spoiling the ending, which was already spoiled in Game of Thrones by Joffrey (of all people), but some plausible contenders for the throne haven’t made their way into the field of battle. At the moment, I’m rooting for Daemon.
To answer the title: it just doesn’t seem like that sort of show.
Probably why I’m finding it a bit of a grind to watch (that and there’s stuff after the time jump that’s either bad writing or just doesn’t add up or both).
In “Driftmark” Rhaenyra and Daemon plotted to get rid of Ser Laenor Velaryon—almost immediately after his sister’s death—by way of his lover, Ser Qarl Correy. Leanor may have sailed away unscathed, but it’s likely we’ll never see either of them on the show again. Laenor was a good father to Rhaenyra’s children, he tried to do his duty to the realm. He did nothing wrong except stand in the way of an incestuous marriage that would strengthen Rhaenyra’s claim to the Iron Throne. Now he’s effectively gone.He wasn’t a very good partner to Rhaenyra. Also, is this passage supposed to indicate Rhaenyra did something wrong to Leanor? The way I would interpret that sequence is Rhaenyra (and Daemon) setting him free. He can’t do his duty in this world.
I feel like the show is trying to depict how history is rarely as cut-and-dried as it seems on the pages of a history book. The “good guys” make bad decisions, power corrupts, etc. … but up until Rhaenyra suggests offing Laenor, I was firmly in her corner. That seemed like an unnecessary change from Fire & Blood, and one that was only made so that the show can go, “See, all these people are awful!”• Didn’t like the funeral prayer/Daemon snickering at the “our blood must not be thinned” line. That seemed like the unnecessary injection of race into this show, but maybe I’m overthinking it.• Criston Cole has a line he will not cross, and it’s gouging out a pre-teen’s eye for no good reason. Yay!• Still don’t know what to make of Daemon. All I know is that I can’t take my eyes off him when he’s onscreen, and I think that is the point. When the sh*t was goin’ down between the family, they cut away once or twice to Daemon with a little sh*tty grin on his face. It’s a look that makes me think he’s the character who most subscribes to Littlefinger’s “chaos is a ladder” philosophy.
Do we really think that Cole balked at blinding Lucaeris out of any sense of morality? Or was it just that he was unwilling to disobey a direct order from the king, right to Viserys’s face?Also, I don’t think Daemon’s snickering was racially motivated. He was snickering because his wife’s uncle took the opportunity of her funeral to take a shot at Rhaenyra’s kids (he was looking straight at them when he said the “blood must not be thinned” line). If anyone’s injecting race into things, it’s Corlyss’s brother.And moreover, Rhaenyra didn’t suggest offing Laenor. She suggested what they actually did, which is faking his death (we see Daemon kill a guard so that they have a corpse to put in Laenor’s place). It’s a change to her (and Daemon’s) benefit.
I think at this point Cole is a violent a**hole, but not enough of a psycho to gouge a child’s eye out.I hadn’t thought about the “blood must not be thinned” as a shot at Rhaenyra’s children. That is a very good point and makes perfect sense (including the snicker).
The problem with a lack of likeability is that everyone is acting in the manner that the world they inhabit would expect of them. Like, all of them would be described as “good” in the terms of the World of the 6 Kingdoms. Working to advance the interests of themselves and their house. They do things a modern audience find abhorent, but in the time is just… normal and good.
Maybe I’m completely off here but I viewed that ending scene as Daemon and Rhaenyra working with Qarl and Laenor to ensure it looked like Laenor was killed so they could both get away clean. I didn’t view it as Daemon actually wanted Laenor killed but rather the whole point was to get them out of the way.I could be totally wrong but I thought they gave him a way out, which makes Daemon and Rhaenyra more sympathetic than they’ve ever been. But their relationship is still ick.
You’re absolutely right, but the writers on this site don’t seem to catch on to things like that
Laenor was a good father to Rhaenyra’s children, he tried to do his duty to the realm.
On what exactly do you base this?Sure he talked a good game, but almost every time we see him he’s drunk with some dude or returning drunk from being with some dude. Guy is never there and while he clearly doesn’t hate the kids, he just isn’t that involved.Reason guy was getting eliminated was his wife and children needed him and he was once again off drunk with some dude.
That Rhaenyra gets to be an unclefucker is just gravy, the bigger deal is protection (both physical and claim to the throne) for herself and more importantly her children.
Yeah, exactly this. He wasn’t exactly directly malicious to the kids, but he was definitely absentee at best.He says as much toward the end of the episode, when he acknowledges his failings as a husband and father and pledges to do better.He’s a generally “good man”, as much as anyone can be in ASoIaF, but he’s no father of the year.
Rhaenyra outright says to Daemon that Laenor’s been a good parent and has tried to be a good partner to her. Yeah, he was absent when things got tough between the kids, but so was Rhaenyra. He just wasn’t up for the fight with Alicent, and couldn’t give Rhaenyra legitimate heirs—as gross as it seems, her uncle’s a better match both as a lover and warrior. That’s why Rhaenyra and Daemon arrange for Laenor to fake his death. Laenor gets the life of adventure he wanted, in a place that’s more tolerant of his sexuality, and Rhaenyra and Daemon get what they always wanted.
When I read that I was like “Are we even watching the same show”? Laenor is an unreliable drunk absent father. His kids have literally had the shit kicked out of them multiple times, in their own home, and he was nowhere to be seen. If he weren’t the only gay character, everyone would hate him.
Although by the usual standards of Westerosi lords being an absentee father rather than an outright malicious abuser actually is good parenting.
This is why I’ve kind of already given up on the show. I suppose it could still turn itself around but right now I’m only sort of watching and I probably won’t be back for season 2. It’s a show about dull, cruel, selfish people that is almost entirely lacking the charismatic performances, cleverness, and sly sense of humor of GoT at its best.
House Of The Dragon forces us to ask the question of whether we need someone to identify with in order to enjoy a story. Will fans continue to tune in to watch two factions of terrible people fighting each other to rule a kingdom without any investment in who wins?I think the success of “Succession” shows that folks will happily watch horrible people do things.
In GOT, folks happily sided with an incestuous dude who tried to kill a little kid in the first episode and kinda raped his sister right after their son died.
Laenor being out of the story means he’s won. As Cersei put it,”When you play the game of thrones, you win or you die.” I disagree. If you don’t play, you also win. Who the hell WANTS to be on that stupid throne? No one’s making anyone’s lives better. And the prophecy for which the endgame is still decades away, gives almost no real stakes otherwise.Laenor won. Will be happy and gay in Essos. That’s the happiest of endings anyone will get.
The show is clearly more sympathetic to Rhaenyra, so I suppose if one had to choose, it would be her. However, none of these characters (except for perhaps Laena and her girls) is truly sympathetic, and it is becoming clear that the incestuous ways and infighting of the Targaryens has increasingly made them unfit to rule Westeros. So it’s probably just as well that Robert Baratheon, Ned Stark, and Jon Arryn eventually overthrew them, and that Jon Snow finished off the dynasty completely.
Yeah, this is why I tuned out of Big Love after 2 years, I hated every character to a degree.
Ugh, that show. I watched it through it’s entire run waiting for the wives- or anyone- to realize how messed up their lives were and instead, the creators doubled down and did the opposite
It’s a huge problem I personally have with this show-no one to like,no one to connect with,no one to get fascinated by,just horrible people doing horrible things to each other in order to get more and more power.And to what end..?It’s becomes strangly uninvolving and quite frankly boring despite the fact dramatic things are happening all the time because me as a viewer just don’t really care what will happen next and who will win.
An ugly episode. I liked “Game of Thrones” and looked forward to “House of Dragons,” but all the adults and half the children on this show are despicable, except for the king— a poor man’s Lear — who travels uncomfortably inside an egg when he is the Tragaryen-in-chief but has no dragon of his own to fly home on! The young Rhaenyra showed some sense, but if the adult one thinks for a minute her uncle won’t murder her as he has others to advance his claim on the throne she is in denial.Laenor gives up being king consort, his beloved kids, his father and mother’s love, and inheriting the family castle and business to row away into the unknown like Gendry? Unlikely. And Larys Strong chews the scenery as a Snidely Whiplash wannabe! (“Can I put some kid’s eye out for you, my queen? Please? Pretty please?” Alicent: “Not now, my malevolent shadow, we need a cliffhanger for Episode 7″).
This was my wholly-uninformed read of the show from the beginning. Oh, an entire story about that imperialist incestuous asshole family? Don’t mind if I don’t!
But they’re not even doing any more imperialism, they seem fat and contented to just do nothing for anyone but themselves. Also a huge problem with the whole story
It’s even more dire than that description suggests. It’s all of that, but also jumping from plot point to plot point without doing ANY character work, depending only on glib exposition to sort of tell you who people are and why they are doing the things they are doing. And for only a few episodes, there has been a shitload of inconsistency: two people do the same thing in two different episodes, one with severe consequences and one with none. We have characters conspiring to murder other characters with whom they have never interacted on the show just because.This is a pretty terrible show, talented cast notwithstanding.
Am i the only one who doesn’t need to ‘root’ for someone? Its a fictional story, not sports.
While this last episode is the best one yet, I still don’t particularly like any of these characters enough to root for. There are moments when Deamon almost appears magnanimous but immediately does or says something to remind us he’s still Daemon from episode 1, through and through.
I really didn’t get that little chuckle at Laena’s funeral. I know they didn’t necessarily love each other but you’d think over the passing of time he would’ve grown up a little and at least waited till he was alone before having his little moment of opportunistic triumph.
Nobody on the show is likable. Thats the main issue i have with it. There is no Tyrion and Jon, Arya or even an early Daenerys. The characters are just there doing things but nothing draws me to them.
It’s not even clear to me that anyone, short of Alicent and her father, actually even wants to rule Westeros. And given that we don’t get any other perspective around who the other lords want, it’s really hard for me to give a shit about any of them
I rather suspect that GRRM’s point through all of this is that Royalty is a curse and a blight. It’s almost a send-up of all the horrors which have been done in the name of Empire. All these people could perhaps have been “good” at some time or another but they’re all so devoted to their Position. And the point of Daemon is that he’s the only one who understands how funny it all is. Or to quote The Hound, “Every Lord I’ve ever met has been a C*nt.”
Easy the dragons.
Finally, I reach the point in the comments where someone gets to the correct answer. Exactly!
House Of The Dragon forces us to ask the question of whether we need someone to identify with in order to enjoy a story. No, it doesn’t. This isn’t some small, slice-of-life dramedy, tt’s a show about dragons. I’m reaching to try to find any show among my recent favorites where I actually identified with any character and I’m drawing a blank. Certainly not among HBO dramas or “prestige TV” in general.Also, I have zero consternation about rooting for Rhaenyra and Daemon. Putting the hero and the antihero on the same team doesn’t make them any less compelling nor their adversaries any more sympathetic.
This obsession with classifying TV characters as “good” or “bad” is killing critique. They’re all good and all bad. I’m rooting for the most compelling characters. Right now it’s Aemond, Alicent, and Daemon. Next week it’ll probably be a whole new set. My real issue with the show is that we know that by the time Dany is forced to marry Khal Drogo, dragons are long since “extinct”. Does that mean we’re going to have to watch dragons be forced into small dungeons and effectively tortured before they all die out through the run of this show?
“After the time jump, we were briefly reacquainted with Ser Harwin
“Breakbones” Strong, the father to Rhaenyra’s three sons. He was a
welcome upgrade from Criston, though he is later killed off in the same
episode, along with his father, Lord Lyonel Strong, the Hand of the
King. That’s two more good and honorable characters written off the
show”
Harwin had an affair with the married princess. He’s not honorable.The beauty of the show is that there is no “good” or “bad”.
There are people to root for?