John Cleese has “always loathed and despised” Eric Idle
Direct from the argument clinic, Monty Python’s John Cleese and Eric Idle have differing opinions about the group’s management
Aux News John Cleese
Ever the source of sound, thoughtful commentary, John Cleese has alerted fans to the fact that he and fellow Monty Python member Eric Idle have “always loathed and despised each other.” This comes in response to Idle telling Twitter followers that Python’s finances are a “disaster” due to mismanagement of the group by manager Holly Gilliam, daughter of American Python Terry Gilliam.
Yesterday, Idle expressed concerns about the lack of safety controls on Twitter, a fair complaint, considering CEO Elon Musk all but shuttered his Trust and Safety Council and later announced a new Trust and Safety team after his site visitors spread non-consensual A.I. porn of the most famous woman on Earth. The lack of moderation is a problem that every glutton for punishment still using the site experiences, and a problem not addressed in the replies. When a follower told him to spend some of that Spamalot money on a premium account—among the worst uses of money in these troubled times—he responded: “I don’t know why people always assume we’re loaded. Python is a disaster. Spamalot made money 20 years ago. I have to work for my living. Not easy at this age.”
“We own everything we ever made in Python, and I never dreamed that at this age, the income streams would tail off so disastrously,” he continued. “But I guess if you put a Gilliam child in as your manager, you should not be so surprised. One Gilliam is bad enough. Two can take out any company.”
John Cleese had had enough and defended his manager, saying that the other living Pythos agree with him:
“I have worked with Holly [Gilliam] for the last 10 years, and I find her very efficient, clear-minded, hardworking, and pleasant to have dealings with,” Cleese tweeted. Michael Palin has asked me to make it clear that he shares this opinion. Terry Gilliam is also in agreement with this.”
But he wasn’t done yet. When a fan asked him about a falling out between the two, Cleese revealed that, actually, he and Idle have always hated each other. “We always loathed and despised each other,” he tweeted, “but it’s only recently that the truth has begun to emerge.”
This shouldn’t come as much of a surprise. Cleese has long stoked the flames of culture war by rejecting so-called cancel culture, supporting Brexit, and standing up for oppressed, millionaire transphobes at the expense of his reputation. Idle, conversely, uses the site to call John Cleese an “entitled git” and tweet things like “fuck Netflix and fuck documentaries.” But he also has a much more level-headed view of the victimization funhouse that Mr. Cleese lives inside, where white guys are supposedly struggling to espouse their hatred publicly in a way that the broader culture accepts.
Despite the far-reaching tendrils of cancel culture, Cleese, who has been canceled many times and is continuously canceled into cancelation every second of every day (seriously, this guy cannot keep up with the frequency of his own cancelations), has plenty of projects coming up. In 2024, he writes that he has a Fawlty Towers stage show, a Life Of Brian stage show, an A Fish Called Wanda musical, an American version of Fawlty Towers, three tours, and more. That cancel culture, it’ll get you.
223 Comments
How will he manage to do all those projects despite having been dead for 5 years?
Cleese is still alive, are you thinking of Terry Jones?
Ee’s stone dead!
He got better . . .
He is an ex Python!
K
Jones is out taking a walk right now!
Nope, definitely John Cleese who’s dead and hasn’t been running his mouth off saying inane shit for the last 5 years, tarnishing his legacy.
Ah yes, my mistake!
Mrs Premise: I just spent four hours burying John Cleese.Mrs Conclusion: *Four hours* to bury John Cleese?Mrs Premise: Yes, well – he wouldn’t keep still.Mrs Conclusion: Oh – he wasn’t dead, then?Mrs Premise: No, no – but he’s not at all well, so we were going to be on the safe side.
Ee’s not dead. Ee’s stunned.
J
Whatever my feelings about present day Cleese or Idle, it’s not exactly a secret that the Python gang has always had multiple internal tensions. I mean, Cleese has spent 40 years complaining about the drama around his final season of Flying Circus and The Meaning of Life.
Cleese appears to be an egotistical bigot, while Idle seems like a cranky bastard who apparently has issues with every other living member of the troupe. Shocking that this apparently made for a tense working environment.
Michael Palin’s diaries are really eye opening to how things were within the group and notably, Eric Idle was always very focused on the business side to the point of the others failing to recognize why that mattered so much (and he’s not wrong, tbh, but you can tell the others are either not happy with compromising art for money or just don’t quite know what to make of it all). I can imagine he still has strong opinions and is likely outvoted by the others – Palin and Cleese likely have a fair amount of sway over the families of Jones and Chapman, obviously in this case Gilliam is going to choose his daughter.
I also suspect that of the living Pythons, Idle is the one with the most money problems because he seems like the guy who wanted to be “rich and famous”. Cleese as well but he’s got Hollywood money still rolling in, Idle never broke through like Cleese. Meanwhile Gilliam is happy making his own movies and Palin is probably sitting on a beach with a Mai Tai not giving a fuck about this drama
Cleese was probably the best-known in the U.S. and turned that into a pretty consistent endorsement / advertisement side gig.
And he’s still getting acting work. He was in that terrible Clifford: The Big Red dog movie from a few years back.
Palin’s had a nice gig going for a while doing travel shows. I’ve only seen a few, but they seem relatively decent.
They’re excellent and he’s lovely.
You would be wrong – Cleese is notoriously broke because he had several very expensive divorced including one relatively recently. It is worth noting that Idle was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer and had an experimental surgery that seems to have caught it early enough to save his life. I’m sure that impacted his finances.
Yeah, the reason Cleese works as much as he does is probably to pay his multiple expensive alimonies.
Why were so many people willing to marry John Cleese?
ummmm. He is/was tall, funny, famous, and rich? Personally, i still send him a letter every few years telling him that while I assume he wants to marry me, it is probably best we remain people who have never met.
Because they knew they’d get all the money in the divorce because he hadn’t learned the words “pre-nup?”
Also, when Idle complains that Spamalot only made money 20 years ago, that would have been when Idle was 60, a perfectly reasonable time for an adult’s income-earning days to start winding down. Doesn’t Idle have, like, mutual funds?
Didn’t Idle shaft Neil Innes over Spamalot as well?
Also the reason why it made slightly less money at the end was because Idle screwed over one of the original producers of the movie and was forced to pay him royalties after the fact. It was enough money that it actually got Cleese and Idle to get back on stage with each other, to pay the legal bills
Spamalot is back on Broadway (for the time being) and seems to be doing quite well.I saw it a few weeks ago and it was an excellent production. The audience, not packed but pretty close, loved it.
Yes, yes, he’s a bigot for noticing that his home country has been transformed by mass immigration that wasn’t voted on or ever put up for public discussion. Bigot, bigot, bigot.Meanwhile, Mayor Eric Adams is apparently not a bigot for discussing his city’s migrant crisis, which is, in fact, Ron DeSantis’ fault.
Mean while you are a lying fuck face who can’t cope with the basics of reality.
well, I wouldn’t be too thrilled working with someone as wasted as Chapman was during Holy Grail
D
The world hasn’t been fond of Cleese for over 30 years.
ugh, as much as Cleese always been horrible…. Eric should release his comedy work with George Harrison, that stuff would be gold right now. It’s silly, it’s goofy and it’s peaceful.
In response to “What happened with the other Pythons.. [sic]
Seen a few tweets from Eric.
Did yous [sic] fall out of touch with each other?”, Cleese tweeted, “We always loathed and despised each other, but it’s only recently that the truth has begun to emerge.”…this seems like sarcasm, no? I mean, you can hear Basil Fawlty saying this. Also, the “We” in Cleese’s Tweet seems to be referring to the Pythons as a group, not Idle specifically.But who knows? For what it’s worth, Idle’s comment seems way more mean-spirited, but I know nothing about the particulars here because I don’t have a Twitter and I don’t follow the Octogenarians section of the financial trades.
If you read any book about Python including Michael Palin’s, it seems very, very true that he and Cleese always hated each other, tbh.
“yous”? What, did they switch to Philly accents now?
H
In the words of Raylan Givens, if you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. You run into assholes all day, you’re the asshole. Cleese seems to run into assholes all day.
The United Nations of assholes, it seems.
you say that a lot.
It’s relevant a lot.
You could stand to be reminded of that daily
A
Jokes on you I’m a colonoscopist !Although my colleagues have pointed out that ironically enough I actually AM an asshole.
Takes one to probe one, as they say.
Wait, really?
Putting “Dr” in your username is a choice that should be discussed with a therapist. You’re good enough. You’re smart enough. And doggone it, people like you.
This assumes a low natural frequency of assholes that has yet to be proven.
In the words of me: That quote gives cover for a lot of assholes.
John Cleese is the world-conquering emperor of lies, the biggest reserved for himself.
In words of Steve Rogers: No, I don’t think I will.
I mean he was an asshole back in the day, too, in the late 60s while Flying Circus was in its heyday. He would fight with the members about which sketches would get in and which were “funny enough”, eventually causing him to leave the show in season 3.
This has been one of my most-cited quotes going on a decade, and it seemed so verifiably true at the time. But I gotta say… I’m starting to wonder how accurate it is. There are a LOT of assholes out there. More than ever, it seems.Wait, shit… am I just an asshole now?
JFC put down the remote. That phrase has been around longer than Justified. And at this point it’s as overused as “try acting”.
Funny, I was just thinking the AV Club runs into assholes all day.
Respect for quoting Raylan Givens!
Maybe that’s the root cause of the silly walks.
Keep firing, assholes!
Idle attacked Cleese, Gilliam and Gilliam’s daughter along with Netflix and Twitter. That seems to describe Idle more than Cleese.
Michael Palin and Terry Jones were always my favorites. I just finished Ripping Yarns, and although it doesn’t hit the heights of Python, it’s still really good.
As long as you pass the port from right to left.
It occasionally hits those heights – particularly in Tomkinson’s School Days.
The opening of School Days with Palin’s befuddled announcer is the best..“…The follies of men’s youth…”
“I was 4 miles from Graybridge when I was caught by the school leopard.”
It’s a razor-edged piss-take of those Boys Annuals. “Your father…mightn’t be back from the Pole. He has another woman down there.”I couldn’t believe my father would go off with another woman. He was a homosexual, for a start.
The School Bully was dynamite.
Ian Ogilvy’s greatest performance. Towards the end he is head hunted by Eton to become their school bully – Ogilvy himself went to school at Eton.
I’m quite partial to ‘Across the Andes by Frog’.
As a collector of vintage tools, I’ve a soft spot for The Testing Of Eric Olthwaite. Spear & Jackson made a damn fine shovel, back in the day. Got one of their border spades somewhere – forged, not stamped, from a solid billet of British steel…
Holy cow, I just bought an original edition of “Ripping Yarns” over the fall at a yard sale. I couldn’t believe they were selling it
Yes, I’m sure all the remaining Pythons, who have no other way of communicating with the outside world other than through you, all secretly agree with you, John Cleese.
Somewhere the spirit of Graham Chapman is shaking his head.
The only thing worse than shaking his head is not shaking his head.
That was Shaw.
No he isn’t.
B
and drinking more spirits
C
Yeah, those post mortem DTs are a bitch.
“Stop it! This is too silly!”
Quite agree! Too silly! Get some discipline into those chaps, Sgt. Major!
And proclaiming this all has gotten to silly and he’s putting an end to it.
I have an autograph from Chapman that reads, “Otters Noses … Wolf Nipple Chips, Love Graham Chapman.” He came to speak at our college in 1988 and I met him. Thus ends my Brush With Greatness.
He’s summarising Proust to the angels now.
Cleese is like Chevy Chase…it’s funny he’s an asshole but it’s also not really an act. Eric Idle has always been too obsessed with famous people and money. Gilliam has always been crazy and irresponsible. Chapman was always a huge superior asshole. Terry Jones was always a tyrant. And Michael Palin was always the most wonderful person in the world who managed to hold them all together. Love those guys.
I have to admit though reading Palin’s diaries sometimes he comments on things Idle wants them to do or thinks they should do from a business standpoint and a part of me is like “bestie, he sounds right.”I don’t think that means it’s wrong to say he was obsessed with money or that it didn’t cause problems, but his perspective isn’t as crazy as Jones and Cleese tend to think it is in Palin’s books.
A lot of times when people talk about how they can’t believe bands do things like go after other acts for infringement (e.g. the Stones and Bittersweet Sympathy), it’s worth remembering they have professional businesspeople watching out for their best interests at all times. Sounds like Python could have used more of that.
Palin’s diaries are so eye-opening in that regard. Not that Idle was always right or that he was excessively savvier than all of them, but there is a very interesting mix of “I’m just glad someone’s letting me do this” (Palin) with some “don’t commercialize the art” (Cleese/Jones/Gilliam) and “whatever” (Chapman). Then Idle would be complaining over something that feels trivial about contracts and it’s like “…guys, you should care about the percentage points on this tour.” Palin regularly is like “…I just sort of sat in the meeting.”
Bittersweet Symphony? If Sympathy then that might be awesome.Anyway, I don’t blame the Rolling Stones here although I really don’t like them much. I remember hearing/reading about this and from what I recall they didn’t really have much to do with withholding royalties from the Verve. Also, not sure how the Rolling Stones could possibly be to blame if the Verve sampled a sample from the Andrew Oldham Orchestra and settled for whatever legal rights they were able to get at the time from the record company that owned the Andrew Oldham Orchestra rights and not the original song. Finally, the lawyer at the center of this was Allen Klein, the most notorious music biz lawyer (or whatever the fuck he was) ever. Blame the Rolling Stones for retaining him before you blame them for Bittersweet Symphony. Anyway, the Rolling Stones did end up giving back royalties and a substantial cut so that’s that.
Yeah, a little song title conflation there. That’s kind of my point; I doubt the band members themselves knew much about what was being pursued in their names, but this kind of policing is part of maintaining sound business practices (like Idle seemed to understand). I didn’t like it when it was happening to the Verve since that was their biggest moneymaker and I like the song, so it was good to see the Stones refunded a meaningful portion – after making their point.
The Stones didn’t sue over Bittersweet Symphony, their ex manager Allen Klein did. In 2019, Mick, Keith, and Klein’s son ceded the rights back to Richard Ashcroft.
Going off their public statements in the past, it’s always kinda seemed like Idle was the most aware of the potential value of the “Monty Python” name and material, while Cleese pretty publicly felt it demeaning to go back to something he decided really wasn’t worth what it took to do back while it was still a going concern.I can kinda see it, but really?Sure. Digging MPATHG up and rebranding it as “Spamalot” was pretty fan-service oriented. At the time it was even a little looked down on for that reason. Nowadays it’s positively original compared to the wasteland of jukebox musicals.
I’m sure it chaps Cleese’s ass to no end that Idle is the only other Python that most people in the US would recognize, or that Idle has been independently successful (if unevenly). Also, I heard that Cleese cut “Always Look on the Bright Side of Life” from the stage version of Life of Brian…which is on par with Cleese these days and probably didn’t help.
I suspect it was cut from Life of Brian because it’s already in Spamalot and that’s probably part of what Cleese is annoyed about (and knowing Idle, he probably kept some extra chunk of that song for himself since he was the primary writer).
Well, it’s not called “Sharealot”
Palin has always had some serious Good Uncle energy.
Palin is a saint
Have my star. It seems that any group that sticks together for a decade or more will have outliers, moderates, and that one guy who’s the heart. Among my circle of about a dozen friends since college, there’s one guy who’s literally been Best Man for half of our weddings, mine included. Some of us won’t really speak to each other unless Best Man is involved, whereas others whom I talk with quite often. That’s my view of Michael Palin among the Pythons. As far as Idle and Cleese go, I really can’t think of a Python skit where they acted together. If they did, it wasn’t that memorable to me. Sure, they’re in some of my favorite skits – but with Graham or Michael or Terry, not each other.
Did somebody mention asshole?
Palin has a lovely cameo in one of the seasons of ‘Staged’ where he savages David Tennant and Michael Sheen for improvising. Afterwards, Sheen says, “Maybe we could get one of the other Pythons to say something? One of the nice ones?” and Tennant yells, “He’s meant to be the nice one!”
Their brains hurt.
knowwhatImean?
I
If you read literally any of Palin’s books, it’s always been clear Idle and Cleese hate each other. Idle also tended to be the most money-focused.That said, I’m also not convinced “But I guess if you put a Gilliam child in as your manager, you should not be so surprised. One Gilliam is bad enough. Two can take out any company” wasn’t a joke given it was said by a comedian. He also didn’t respond when people asked if it were a bit.
I’ve read one of Palin’s books. Does that mean I’ve read literally any of them?
I think it crops up more in his Python diaries than in say “Erebus Story of a Ship” *.Although the line where “After the second winter the crew formed into small tight groups , knowing that the day may come when they would need to defend themselves or else be killed and eaten by desperate men who’d once been their friends “ would work just as well for tales about the failed North West Passage trip , or the life of the Pythons.*But Erebus is a fantasic read and I do reccomend it.
Dude, that’s the very one I read!
I am going to pick up those diaries one of these days though.
I really liked it , after reading The Terror (and seeing the show) I went through a big patch of being really interested in Polar/SubPolar marine expeditions , so Palin writing about the Terror and Erebus was fantastic.
F
It does and if it was the first one, he repeatedly talks about John being mean to Eric and not liking Eric.
Not literally. You have literally only read the specific one you’ve literally read.
E
I don’t know the first thing about Gilliam’s daughter but given everything we know about Terry himself, if I were to pass on one Python’s offspring as manager of my business it would be his.
Also Cleese’s defense of her isn’t exactly convincing. “I find her very efficient, clear-minded, hardworking, and pleasant to have dealings with” … ok fine, but is she any good managing your money?
To be totally fair, that would presumably fall under “very efficient, clear-minded [and] hardworking”, given the context.
It’s rumored that Terry’s daughter was asked to purchase 5 folding chairs for her father’s 70th birthday party. It cost $42 million, but after four years those chairs finally arrived.
Running as smooth as a piston engine…without any oil.
It’s perhaps worth noting that Cleese, also a comic, may also have been trying to be funny.
As of this writing Johann Gambolputty de von
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von Hautkopft of Ulm could not be reached for comment.
Of the Bavarian Gambolputty de von
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von Hautkopft of Ulms?!
A common misconception. He is of the Baden-Württemberg
Gambolputty de von
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von Hautkopft of Ulms.
it’s pronounced “Throat-warbler Mangrove”!
Fortunately, Malcolm Peter Brian Telescope Adrian Blackpool Rock Stoatgobbler John Raw Vegetable Brrroooo Norman Michael (rings bell) (blows whistle) Edward (sounds car horn) (does train impersonation) (sounds buzzer) Thomas Moo… (sings) ‘We’ll keep a welcome in the…’ (fires gun) William (makes silly noise) ‘Raindrops keep falling on my’ (weird noise) ‘Don’t sleep in the subway’ (cuckoo cuckoo) Naaoooo… Smith could be reached for comment.
Well I’m going to start a project to build a bridge between both peaks of Mt Kilimanjaro.
Wait till Biggus Dickus hears of this!
“Terry Gilliam is also in agreement with this.”Damn it, I was really hoping for a shocking twist here, John.
yeah, no shit.
G
“Father thinks daughter is doing great, film at 11.”
Nope, Gilliam’s involved: “rumor of film for 7 years, dailies leaked from failed production in 11″
Eric Idle was in the Rutles, so fuck John Cleese. By the way, If Idle needs some cash, he could always tour as a Rutles tribute band.
“All you need is retirement cash”
Neil Innes wrote all the music for the Rutles and wound up having to sue Idle to get any SPAMALOT money after Idle used his music there, too, so I don’t imagine the Neil Innes estate will be too keen to let Eric go out and perform his stuff.
yeah, I’m aware Innes wrote that music. Idle wasn’t actually singing, right? Man, that is some great stuff!
Lol to the state of article writing: Eric Idle makes a claim. John Cleese speaks for the Pythons and refutes claim. Author of article rather talk about Cleese being anti-cancel culture instead of headline. Diverts article to talk about that even though it’s completely off topic instead of just writing two separate articles. Pats-self-on-back for being good writer .
Yeah. Don’t get me wrong, I am dismayed by Cleese (a very funny man who I loved when I was young) turning into one of these d-bags who always goes on and on about cancel culture. But this place has gotten really dumb about this stuff. Rest assured any article they run where Cleese is named will immediately turn into a diatribe about how cancel culture isn’t real, Cleese is a butt, and therefore anyone who dislikes or disagrees with Cleese about anything is a saint and a certified Good Dude. You don’t even need to read past the headline anymore, you can guess exactly where it’s going based on the names involved.
I mean, articles about a dude who was funny in the past but has spent the last decade and change just being a typical cranky racist boomer shouldn’t need to avoid discussing his current career yelling at clouds.
It’s not that they should avoid it, it’s that this is literally the only part of any story involving him that they have an ounce of interest in. Somehow an article purportedly about Python’s financial state of affairs and general dislike between two of its members ends with two full paragraphs about Cleese’s politics. It’s not a mention or passing swipe, it’s the thesis statement. Which to me makes it boring. I am already quite aware, having read myriad other articles about Cleese on this site, that he’s a dickhead nowadays. These articles feel like they’re written by auto-complete.
Cleese turning into a full-blown public asshole and bigot is relevant to feuds among the Pythons. Particularly given that this whole thing came up because of Idle behaving in the opposite way regarding Twitter.Maybe not everyone has read “myriad” pieces on Cleese, or maybe are less invested in whitewashing his terrible behavior.There are plenty of legitimate complaints about the current AV Club, but adding additional context to what otherwise would be a little orphan item is not what’s wrong.
I’m not asking for “whitewashing” of anything. I’m asking for them to write anything other than repetitive, rote takedowns of the same 10 or 15 celebrities for the same sins, forever and ever. Whether one agrees with them—and I happen to lean left, politically and socially, so I usually do—it is not interesting or amusing writing to dish out photocopied outrage day after day, with only the links and a sentence or two swapped out. If they can’t manage to actually write about why Python’s finances may or may not be in distress, maybe they should just skip this one. I’m sure that in a few weeks, Cleese will tweet X something offensive again, and they can write about that.Dave Chappelle says something offensive every other week lately. So I get why the articles on him are numbingly similar, even on the 20th and 30th go-round; there is never a shortage of new material. But I would hope that if he instead, say, gets into a drunken fistfight with the 3rd string punter for the Kansas City Chiefs, they will push his transphobia far enough toward the margins to produce an actual thought on the thing they are ostensibly writing about.That this came up in response to Idle talking about X’s lack of safety controls is marginally related to Cleese *at best*. To my knowledge he’s said very little publicly that Twitter old or new would have reason to moderate. He said less on the subject of trans folk than JK Rowling did (if memory serves, that’s how much of this started, because he was defending her). And the pre-Elon Twitter was in no hurry to delete her tweets or ban her for her lengthy, frequent posts on this topic. We could go far into the weeds with a tangential discussion about what safety protocols should exist, and I imagine we are at least somewhat on the same side in thinking that Elon’s X is stupidly void of even a baseline level of protection. Nonetheless, almost all of what Cleese has said falls under “cranky old conservative guy with the expected opinions,” not “imminent threat to society who should be deplatformed.” Which means that the context here actually has nothing much to do with Cleese’s opinions, not even indirectly (never mind that they were not explicitly talking about him here, and that he came into it because of the comments about Python, not because of anything he has tweeted, ever).
Well, it’s mighty white of you to be so tolerant of “the expected opinions.”
And it’s mighty lazy of you to reply to what I thought was a thoughtful discussion and a position argued in detail & good faith with that. I’m sorry I wasted my time. Enjoy your day and your exceedingly ironic username.
That was stated in good faith. I don’t need to engage with every point you make to respond clearly to the takeaway from your post. You can write paragraphs about how Cleese’s comments don’t bother you that much or characterizing his racism as being “cranky,” but people who don’t look like you have different takes on how much we ought to care about racism or how much of a stain it should be on a public figure. This last super thoughtful series of sentences really showed your hand: you don’t actually think his hateful views are really hateful enough to discuss. To you, he’s grumpy but not wrong.And the beautiful juxtaposition of “you guys talk about this too much” with “to my knowledge he’s said very little”: such good faith operating there.
You are rampantly putting words in my mouth. I never said at any point that his opinions don’t bother me or that I agree with any of them. Also it’s a bit rich falling back on this “people who don’t look like you” playbook when one of the people we are talking about is Dave Chappelle. I guess it’s mighty white of him to be such a transphobe, eh?Let me boil this down to a thesis statement so short that even you can’t misinterpret it: I find Cleese’s opinions on trans people abhorrent and his thoughts on cancel culture tiresome, if less offensive than his transphobia. Nevertheless, I wish this site—which used to be funny and thought-provoking in its coverage of arts and entertainment—could write anything other than outrage-bait, instead of using controversial names as a pretext to repost the same sentiments again and again. It is preaching to the choir, and though I am a dues-paying member of said choir, I am bored by the sermon. They are so eager to list Cleese’s offensive opinions that they once again forgot to write about anything this news item was actually about except briefly, in passing. Better writers than these guys (obviously I mean Sean O’Neal) would have managed to take a brutal swipe at Cleese’s dickheadedness AND actually present a take on the matter at hand.tl;dr—It is possible to think Cleese is a knob and yet still want to read something other than another screed about his politics, when the topic at hand is not politics but Monty Python’s finances. Clear?I’m sure you’ll now rebut with “That’s what you say, but here’s what you actually mean,” and in advance: no thanks.
TL/DR: consider following your advice rather than arguing that people’s bad behavior shouldn’t be mentioned. Simply consider the fact that the people who are the targets of this kind of behavior may not be as bored with the reminders as you.
Putting words in my mouth yet again. I already said my objection was not that it was “mentioned” but that it was the entire thrust (and only subject of the two concluding paragraphs) of the piece. Mention it, by all means. Contort the news item to be about it—to the degree that they don’t bother dissecting the actual news—then I’m not a fan.Please, now tell me again how even though that’s what I keep saying I mean, it’s not actually what I mean.
Lol. This is about the back and forth I expected my comment would lead to. But it speaks to the point. Instead of talking about the actual news item we are stuck talking about something else because the author never read his Strunk & White.
It’s not the entire thrust. It just seems that way to you because it looms large, because it bugs you for this to be mentioned. Because you don’t care.Or, you don’t care when words are spent on Cleese’s bad behavior. You’re super happy to spend days talking about how we shouldn’t talk about this. Which is fucking hilarious.
The only thing I’ve spent “days” (a generous word to use when my first post was barely more than 24 hours ago) doing is arguing with you, and now that your complete intellectual dishonesty is on full display, I’m done with that. I leave you to your character assassination which I’m quite sure doesn’t require my active participation.
Character assasination? Get the fuck over your pretentious self.All I fucking did was say that, in an article about a rift between two members of a group that was initiated by one of them taking position A, it wasn’t out of line to mention that the other one has spent the better part of the decade articulating position B, which is more or less its opposite.That mention made you big mad, made you convince yourself that it was the entirety of the article despite the evidence being right there, and it made you make 20 posts talking about how we shouldn’t be talking about this thing because it bores you.I think your character sucks, frankly, but I haven’t deigned to assassinate it yet, especially given the hard work your own posts are doing.
Oh yeah, it’s definitely me that’s big mad here. Thanks for the chuckle.
Yeah, 20 posts and then “character assassination!”You’re so relaxed, fella.
You’re never going to win an argument with a fascist. Let the child wallow and seethe in hatred. It apparently takes several decades for some kids to reach adulthood.
This warrants a special mention, because it’s hilarious:And the beautiful juxtaposition of “you guys talk about this too much” with “to my knowledge he’s said very little”: such good faith operating there.That they write about this regularly while imparting minimal information every time is not the defense you think it is, you witless boob.
Such good faith.
You know, you really do not contain multitudes.
No idea who you are, why you don’t care for me, or why I would give a fuck.
Oh my gosh. The world famous IContainMultitudes from AV Club comment section doesn’t know who I am? My entire life has been a lie.
Also, the better question is why you clearly do give a fuck. Speak on that.
Why join a conversation to contribute nothing?I guess it’s nice to know that shitty incels like yourself can spend time attacking men as well as women. Way to broaden your horizons, kiddo.
Bro I stg I’ve seen you use the word “incel” like 400 times and I don’t think it’s ever actually fit the situation once. Which makes your initial question that much more ironic.
But by all means, keep using it. It definitely does not make you sound like a middle aged dork desperately trying to fit in with the whippersnappers.
Son, you literally recently making a post telling people to “Google” evidence that women don’t find feminists attractive.Not only is the core of that statement overwhelming evidence that you never talk to women, your insistence that this could be determined through Googing, I suppose, an incel Reddit post, rather than actually having interactions with women in real life is the most fucking obvious incel flag I have ever seen in my life.Sometimes I use that label in a bit of a stretch or based on some assumptions. In your case, it was 1000% apt.
Oh, now I get it. You went digging into my comment history because I got under your skin, and something hit a little too close to home. Don’t worry, fedora, I’m sure if you keep licking the feet of all those maidens online, you’ll be rewarded with your first sexual experience at the age of 42.
In the meantime, I’ve gotta tell my wife and newborn child that I’m an incel. She’s going to be devastated. Thank you for exposing me to this harsh truth, Mr. Multitudes. BTW, the mental image of you clicking my name and angrily reading through all my comments and going “I’ve got him now!” just made my day. Lmao.
I was curious who tf you were and what that “i am your gay dad” business was. It took about 10 seconds to get the unequivocal confirmation of just why you’re so salty and motivated to defend shitty old dudes.It confirmed my suspicions, guy who uses Google to confirm his biases about this creature called woman — who is is pretty sure prefer alphas who hate them — that he is too terrified to approach.But go with this “I know you are but what am I” thing. It’s super effective, little guy.
So the real question is, given that I’m an incel and women love limp-wristed simps, why are you an angry, alone middle aged man screaming into the void of every AV Club comment section while I’m happily married?
Truly one of life’s greatest mysteries.
“Simps?” You are welcome to invent any wife you want, but your lexicon reveals the truth.Maybe your bitterness and misplaced self-regard will somehow, someday, attract the woman you deserve.
Lol, I love the thought of how angry it makes you that despite your lifetime of begging women for approval, you’re still sad and alone. Don’t worry. I’m sure another 10 years of rescuing fair maidens online will get you the results you desire.
You literally use a word that only exists so you sad dudes can pretend that you are somehow better than the guys who actually get laid.It’s pretty fucking clear that you are so deep in an incel bubble that you don’t even know how to code switch when you aren’t talking to other incels so that other people won’t know. There’s a whole world of people out there, champ. Try to go have some human interactions other than validation from the angry incel community and attacking everyone else because you blame them for your bitter loneliness.
Lol, always with the projecting. It seems like every time I see you in one of these comment sections, you’re calling someone else an angry bitter incel. It couldn’t be more obvious that you’re here lashing out after literal decades of trying and failing to get women to notice you. Keep at it though. Like I said, I’m sure a few more years of toiling away as a lonely bitter middle-aged man will do the trick.
It’s mighty fascist of the you to try to shut someone down with dishonest insults because you’re too young and intolerant to discuss anything.Touch grass, little kiddo.
I don’t think it’s about leaving out context. By all means, include an aside about what a miserable bigot Cleese is. But it should perhaps be an aside, not a diatribe — save those for when he’s done some new miserabilist bigotry that warrants the commentary.
I wouldn’t trust any value judgment from this site (or from IContainMultitudes) without finding out for yourself what John Cleese actually did wrong. All he appears to be guilty of in this article is defending Holly Gilliam. John Cleese seems to have got on the wrong side of transgender advocates who are very judgmental and into character assassination.
You’re spoiling your own case with the insults. Anyone who has ever watched Monty Python knows that John Cleese was making the show when the baby boomers were still kids. And anyone who knows anything about the Baby Boom knows that it was a phenomenon in America but not in Britain. John Cleese is not a boomer. You seem to be using the word as a code word for your own ageist attitudes.
Cool story. Baby Boomers were not kids when the Flying Circus was on. Cleese is a couple of years older than the peak, but it’s still totally applicable, and he’s consistent with the generational attitudes.Discussing a generation and its values isn’t ageism, sir.
John Cleese who was born in 1939 is part of the post-war baby boom? Wait unless you mean the Sino-Tibetan War…
It’s almost like generational names are vague and imprecise and that someone born a few years before the official “boom” is closer to the peak of that arbitrary generational description than people born fully 20 years later.
That label sure as fuck fits this dude better than the Silent Generation. But if you guys really want to “well, actually” me about unscientific labels, knock yourselves out.
There is no clearer definition, understanding or deliniation of a generational cohort than the POST WAR Baby Boomers. You don’t need to be right 100% of the time.
My point was that he was exhibiting cliche behavior of that cohort, not specifically that he was a member. I didn’t Google his birthdate before making that statement. Technically wrong, but the point is still valid.
But they’re right
Who’s the “d-bag”; a person talking about something that has been going on for years or the child who is so deep in the rabbit hole that they’re incapable of researching or discussing it?Even FauxNews watchers aren’t so ignorant and fragile. You could spend weeks researching how young regressive fascists are trying to take down professors for the most innocuous thoughts. Let adults talk about stuff. If it upsets you, you may not have the curiosity or concerns to do the basic research.
a shorter list might be ‘People John Cleese Likes’.
L
1. JK Rowling
2. The Kinja Caffeine Spider
Well, maybe they should learn Python programming if they want to earn a decent living.
Shush , Cleese and Idle will sue them over the bloody name if they find out it exists.
It’ll bring them together, at least.
You know, when you’re chewing on life’s gristle, don’t grumble, give a whistle, and this’ll help things turn out for the best.
The I’ve turned into a grumpy old Bollocks category:John Cleese,Eric Idle, Terry GilliamThe I’ve turned into a twinkly eyed but beloved world travelling Grandad category:Michael PalinThe I’ve turned into a corpse, leave me out of this ,wont you category:Graham Chapman, Terry Jones
an American version of Fawlty TowersI mean ..that went soooo well last time .
And the time before that.
Stupidest fucking piece ever written? It’s up there.
Cleese, like many public figures, comes off worse the more he plays himself. I will no longer watch anything with him (solely) in it. Idle is a treasure.
Idle’s points are stronger – in this age of streaming and IPs being hoovered up, it’s bizarre that MP sits there on ice, barely shown, nothing new coming up. MST3K for crying out loud has several channels and projects ongoing.
It’s hard for them when Barry Cryer isn’t around to ghostwrite their jokes.
As someone pointed out a few days ago, this stuff has a limited shelf life. How many more times can you repurpose 40-50 year old material? MST3K is putting out new material, and even they couldn’t get enough money on their most recent kickstarter to fund a new season. Kids in the Hall aren’t getting a second season on Amazon. At this point, Monty Python are closer to the Goodies or the Goon Show than they are to MST3K in terms of current relevance. The O2 shows only took place to pay off a lawsuit, 1/3 of the group has died, the Blu-Ray release of Flying Circus lost money, Spamalot will keep chugging along on Broadway making your grandma and grandpa chuckle politely for all of eternity, and everyone else in the group seems fine with just moving on with their lives.
And also, let’s face it — the surviving 2/3s of the group are in their late 70s-early 80s now. There’s realistically only so much they have left in the tank anyway.
I hate it when Grandpa and Grampa fight.Their best collaborative work was 50 years ago now. Who cares if they like each other or not? They produced some of the funniest things ever, 50 years ago, but they’ll both be stone dead soon and for that I will be sad.
This makes it especially odd then that Cleese and Idle toured together just a few years ago. They made it clear it was strictly for financial reasons, as Cleese was on his 19th divorce and Idle was broke as well, but still…
After the 2014 live shows, “Monty Python Live (Mostly)” i assumed they would be good for money, According to wikipedia, “The ten-night show was a financial success, allowing the members of the troupe to pay off their creditor, earn £2.2 million each and donate to selected charities”.On the same page it notes “in 2013, the Pythons lost a legal case to Mark Forstater, the producer of their second film, Holy Grail, over royalties for its musical adaptation Spamalot. They owed a combined £800,000 ($994,600) in legal fees and back royalties to Forstater. To pay these, a reunion show was proposed.”i guess those back royalties (ten years worth at the time of the live shows) depleated alot of the pythons wealth.
It’s weird because British people of the era, like my Dad, who they appealed to so much, would tell them to fucking bang their heads together and stop being such tossers. Cleese = bigoted moron. Idle = egotistical moron.
The authors on this and its sibling websites really are an echo chamber of one-sided nonsense.
So in this one, specific instance John Cleese isn’t the asshole and Eric Idle is?Weird.
Is Cleese the biggest drop in likability in decades?
I thought Idle wanted to be called Loretta?
I do not agree with the political views Cleese has expressed with regard to “cancel culture” or anything else at all, but let’s put the brakes on before we start making Idle out to be some sort of hero here. This whole thing started because he is complaining about not having enough money, including a house he sold for a price in the millions.This is not to say that rich people don’t have problems, and even money problems. Every human being has problems they deal with, money or not. And it is not a fun position to be in to have to work at an older age to maintain your accustomed lifestyle. But lets have a little perspective. In my job I work with people to obtain benefits like Medicaid they need to survive, most of whom live in gut wrenching poverty. I hope Eric Idle finds a position where he is happy as I hope for almost everyone, but I am not going to spend much time thinking about his financial situation. He has had far more opportunity and resources in his life than the vast majority.This article should also mention that his response to Idle came after someone in that twitter thread asked if he had seen Cleese lately. Idle said he hadn’t seen Cleese in seven years, and that that made him happy.Again, not defending Cleese. I am about as far left as it gets, and everything I have heard about him makes him seem like a jerk. But I wish the articles here would actually be informative sometimes, rather than pushing an angle-even if it is an angle I mostly agree with.
What’s there to “agree” regarding the endless examples of cancel culture over the years. The fact you’re incapable even acknowledging it simply means the propagandists you read for some weird reason ignore it every time it happens… You could spend weeks of your life just researching its effects in academia, to see how prevalent it is.
Maybe the next time you think about posting some extremely reasonable take on an article like this, you take a second to look in the mirror and tell yourself that there is a guy named Hal in Vancouver who appreciates your input but wishes better for you than this site. Kind of a Good Will Hunting thing.
I know I am late to respond, but I wanted to say thank you for the kind words. I also wanted to reassure you that I won’t make a big deal when I leave the site-you will just show up to the comment section one day and I’ll be gone as you nod knowingly. :)Also, I have been to Vancouver many times. It is lovely!
an A Fish Called Wanda musical FUCK YOU! Leave perfect things alone!
Fawlty Towers is a better show than most of Monty Python. I have the DVD set and watch from time to time. I havn’t seen this on any streamer service in a long while.
To be fair while Cleese is a pompous arse, I do tend to eye roll whenever I hear Eric Idle plead poverty. They all went to Oxford and Cambridge. They were born with silver spoons in their mouths! (Except possibly Palin who as a northerner, probably came from grubby mill-owner money)
It’s well known Michael Palin grew up in an old water tank on a rubbish tip.
But ‘e was happy, then.
Luxury!
Yes. Posh old British men whinging about how badly off they are, and airing their ancient grievances in public, is not neither a dignified nor edifying spectacle.***Unpopular Opinion Alert***
As for rerunning the Monty Python television series, gods no…it really hasn’t aged well. Being old enough to remember when the programmes were first being aired here in the UK they always struck me as the odd good sketch/quotable line interspersed with a lot of rather dreary rubbish. Plus it looks very racist, classist and misogynistic by today’s more enlightened standards, so let’s leave it in the past where it belongs, forgotten and gathering dust.
I’ve always thought Idle got a bit more in royalties from any of the recorded songs because he mostly wrote the majority of them? But I know they’ve all been infighting for years. I appreciated the reunion show bit where they sit around and try to one up each other because you could tell it was coming from a very real place.
We’ve known for ages that Cleese is a dick. There’s a reason he’s so good at playing one. But isn’t it time we stopped giving Idle a pass? This guy has been acting like a pompous asshole for decades.
And come on Eric, if you’re not immensely wealthy it’s not because someone has been mismanaging Monty Python for the past decade, it’s because you completely fucked up your own personal finances well before Gilliam jr. was involved.
Man these guys sound grumpy. Hasn’t anyone ever told them to look on the bright side of life?
I saw them on tour together in 2016. I never would have guessed…
What a bunch of elder berries. Palin’s cool though.