John David Washington addresses criticism over age gap between him and Malcolm & Marie co-star Zendaya
Film Features Zendaya
Early reviews of Sam Levinson’s forthcoming drama Malcolm & Marie are already skewing positive, garnering early comparisons to fellow Netflix original film Marriage Story and old Hollywood romances. There’s also been a good amount of discourse regarding the glaring age gap between stars John David Washington, who is 36 years old, and recent Emmy winner Zendaya, 24, since news of the quarantine-bred movie broke last summer. The discussion has only grown in volume since the official release of the glamorous trailer, prompting Variety’s Clayton Davis to broach the subject with Washington in a recent interview.
“I wasn’t concerned about it because she is a woman, Washington responded. “People are going to see in this film how much of a woman she is. She has far more experience than I do in the industry. I’ve only been in it for seven years. She’s been in it longer, so I’m learning from her.” He continues, “What I’m really excited for people to see when the film is released – they’re going to see how mature she is in this role. We’re talking about versatility, and Sam and Zendaya brought both.”
The film centers on a filmmaker and his girlfriend who arrive home from a successful red carpet premiere and soon begin digging into the complex layers of their relationship. Shot entirely in black and white (and with the help of a host of strict COVID protocols), the early peeks hint towards a rather intimate tale, sparking fresh critique of Hollywood’s penchant for casting woman under the age of 30 in roles that could easily be awarded to older actresses. Truthfully, this is a conversation that has been happening in various spheres for decades, but especially recently as actresses like Margot Robbie and Jennifer Lawrence are repeatedly paired with older actors. But as is the case with Robbie and Lawrence, many still recognize that Zendaya is a top-notch actress who could easily excel in just about any role she’s given. Furthermore, her casting likely had less do to with her age and more to do with the existing professional relationship between her and writer-director Levinson, who is the creator of HBO’s heightened drama Euphoria.
So while Washington is certainly correct—Zendaya is a grown woman with immense talent—their pairing still falls in line with a long-standing trend that largely favors men. Pointing said trend out and enjoying the film when it arrives to Netflix February 5 don’t have to be mutually exclusive.
136 Comments
12 years? Hollywood has OFTEN done much, much worse.
Yeah, was about to say: that’s practically progressive by Hollywood standards. Let’s remember that what finally drove Roger Moore to quit the role of James Bond was the sobering realization that not only was he older than Tanya Roberts, he was older than her mother.
Prompting her mother to ask:
Sean Connery and Catherine Zeta-Jones had nearly four decades between them when they starred in “Entrapment” (1999). Sean Connery was 68 when he played the thief-turned-unlikely partner opposite Catherine Zeta-Jones, who was 29 when the 1999 crime thriller premiered.
And then Catherine Zeta-Jones went on to marry Michael Douglas, who is exactly 25 years her senior.
thats not allowed anymore, good thing they got hitched when they did
She’s always liked older men. Even before she married Michael Douglas, I remember an interview she did for the first Zorro movie she did with Banderas. When the interviewer asked what it was like working with Anthony Hopkins, she said stuff like she got lost in his eyes and stuff like that. You could tell she was into him. So she probably enjoyed her time with Sir Sean!
She talked about the Connery thing at the AFI tribute awards to Connery and said that she had always had a crush on him so she felt no issue playing his love interest.
Wow.Now that’s acting, CZJ.
By coincidence I just watched High Noon yesterday, starring Gary Cooper (50) and Grace Kelly (21) as newlyweds.
Yeah, I was expecting something worse. I guess it might creep some people out because she played a high school student in the last Spiderman movie a year and a half ago and I believe plays a teenager in Euphoria.
True, but people have to realize that young 20-something actors often get roles as teenagers so studios can film longer hours and don’t have to get parental consent for things in the way that they’d have to for actual teenagers. Also, typically easier to direct an older person with more experience than a kid who might be professionally acting for the first time. Can’t always get a group of winners like the “Harry Potter” or “Stranger Things” kids. Can also be kind of funny when the shows stretch for several seasons and then you have actors who look like they’re thirty having to deal with high school problems. I don’t mean to imply you were unaware of this phenomenon, just that other people who feel uncomfortable only knowing Zendaya from her high school roles need to realize that she’s not actually of high school age.
I mean, to me this isn’t the level of role disparity such as Disney stars suddenly being in “Spring Breakers” or something.
I have multiple friends who have done much, much worse. Two of my 41 year old friends are married to women 15 years younger than them and everyone seems pretty loving and fine with the situation. Getting angry over a 12 year difference is insane and basically is a demand that art not reflect real life but instead reflect what people believe life should be like.
And like, I get the point, you never see movies with 38 year-old women dating 22 year-old men (unless that was the plot of one of the Sex and the City movies, I legitimately don’t know), but show more of that, not less of this.
Never saw the movies, but it was definitely a large part of the plot of the final season. (Samantha’s much-younger boytoy steps up and starts acting like a real partner when she falls ill.)
Well that’s good!
Yeah that was something I was a huge fan of in the final season, Smith going from a himbo to a legit partner. I mean, it always seemed like he was super into Samantha and she kind of kept him at arm’s length so she could maintain the idea that it was just a looks-based superficial hookup (though it was pretty obvious she had feelings for him too) and it took something tragic, her getting cancer, for Sam to drop the facade and let him step up, display his maturity and love, and as such become an equal partner in their relationship. Cause for a while there she was holding all the cards. Glad the show didn’t denounce May/December relationships, and showed them from both gender perspectives (If I recall correctly, Mr. Big is at least ten years older than Carrie and has a much more lucrative and steady job, kind of like the advantage Sam had over Smith)
That also doesn’t happen nearly as often as the inverse in real life. Both the real-life fact and the fact about movie casting are symptoms of the same actual root issue, not one the cause of the other.
Closest I can think of off the top of my head is that Amy Adams is almost 9 years older than Henry Cavill.
Wow, I legitimately didn’t know that. Although that makes sense for Clark & Lois, he’s a rookie reporter & she’s already a Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist.
Yeah, it also follows Christopher Reeve and Margot Kidder, where she was 4 years older than him.
Good Lord, Fred Astaire practically needed a walker, when he was paired opposite Audrey Hepburn in Funny Face.
And that’s one of the reasons Hepburn left Hollywood. She was sick of being cast with much older men.
It’s what keeps me from really liking Sabrina. Hepburn is utterly charming in it, but it stretches credulity to pair her with Humphrey Bogart.
Yeah- I think it’s mainly just that she’s baby-faced and still in her “playing teens” stage of her career. Numbers wise there have been way more ridiculous casting decisions in Hollywood
I think the article does a poor job in framing it is as “age gap” is the issue. Its not about May-December relationships, its about how Hollywood consistently casts almost exclusively 20 year olds as love interests, while men in Hollywood get to be leading men into their 50s, which while yes, creates what is almost always an unaddressed age gap, the larger issue is Hollywood’s inability to view women as attractive or compelling when they’ve aged beyond whatever metric studio’s deem as “bangable.”
If this was Denzel Washinton, then sure, let’s have this conversation. But John David Washington? Mid-30’s and mid-20’s is barely an age gap at all.
That’s actually not uncommon in real life couples either. I get the issue with May-December romances being icky and likely motivated by financial reasons by the younger member hoping to inherit money, but do you have to be literally the same age to be a normal couple?
I’m 10 years younger than my first wife, and 5 years younger than lost_wifey. So it does happen
Yeah how come there are no links in this article to the “discourse regarding the glaring age gap”? Seems like ridiculously oversensitive BS. Glaring! Oh heavens! Come on, she’s not a teenager and he’s not an AARP member.
also they look around the same age. washington has a very youthful quality to him (noticed it in tenet, as well), so if you told me the characters were 25 and 32 i wouldn’t bat an eye.also as someone who got ID’d well into his 30s people have no idea what ‘age’ looks like…and maybe ‘age’ doesn’t actually look like anything.
You think Hollywood’s bad? That’s just what they SHOW of reality.Reality is SO fucked up.
Wow. Impressive level of missing the point, there, JD.
Can you elaborate on what point you think he missed? To me, he is showing clear respect and reverence for Zendaya’s well-documented senses of agency, artistry, and professionalism, instead of feeding the tabloid notion that this particular production was in any way, shape, or form problematic.
I have neither the time nor the inclination to educate you on why the Hollywood age gap is problematic, particularly when Google exists, but suffice to say this has nothing whatever to do with Zendaya and her admittedly impressive acting chops.
I didn’t ask you to educate me about the problems with age gaps in Hollywood. I asked you to elaborate on why you’ve decided it applies in any way to this project, which was conceived of, written by/for, and cast by Sam Levinson and Zendaya themselves. You’re right, Google exists. Why don’t you use it to learn why it’s you, and not John David Washington, who has missed ‘the point’ in this particular case? You are the one projecting victimhood onto Zendaya based on erroneous assumptions about her OWN project. Mr. Washington is the one showing her the respect she deserves.
IOW, you just want to bitch and project your utter inability to provide anything of substance onto others. You certainly shouldn’t comment about age gaps when you’ve never matured beyond 14-15 years and spend your life throwing tantrums and considering it untowards to have a view different from your own because it’s inconceivable that anyone who disagrees with you could possibly be right.
He is right about experience and fameI have known who Zendaya is far longer then I knew who John David Washington was. Honestly, I get the issue with these parts could go to older actresses but at the same time if Zendaya can do the part and is good in it, then why can’t she do it. An age gap between partners is hardly the worse thing Hollywood does regarding women’s ages. I think its far worse when they cast a women only a slightly older, or even younger then a male character as his mother.
Forrest Gump came out when I was 13, and I had already seen bits and pieces of Punchline on HBO by the time I saw it, so seeing Sally Field as Tom Hanks’s mother after playing his girlfriend in the latter movie was a BIG eye-opener as to how Hollywood views women for young South.
That was because you can’t age someone down, but you can age them up. She played Forrest’s mother when he was a little kid, and then when he was Tom Hanks they stuck a wig on her and put on some makeup to make her look older.
Or at least previously you couldn’t age some down well. Now you can kind of, but it looks sort of off. Though old age makeup also looks off so who knows
I should have said you can age someone down if you’ve got lots and lots and LOTS of money. They pulled it off in Captain Marvel. In the last episode of the Mandalorian, not so much.
Yeah, and that tech wasn’t available when Forest Gump was made. The aging down is a bit uncanny valley even now, though honestly I never find even good old age makeup convincing. People’s voices and face shapes change as they age, which is hard to replicate.
You most definitely can age people up or down. Makeup and CGI.
I hate the Forrest Gump argument. It’s not the same – were they supposed to hire two different actresses for the different ages of the mother? Or should they have hired someone older to play a young mother to which Sally Field was the appropriate age for?
He was gay, Forrest Gump?
He is right about experience and fameHe’s the son of Denzel Washington. Can we please stop pretending like he’s unaware of how Hollywood works because he just started landing his own major roles?
That really has nothing to do with my comment
“I’ve only been in it for seven years.” I question that quote coming from Denzel Washington’s son. He hasn’t not been a part of it exactly. I will say it probably seems weirder because Zendaya plays younger very often and it just makes everyone see her as quite young. She’s still young, but ya know not 16.
Yeah, perhaps the fact that her most famous role to date is as Peter Parker’s high school crush has affected the perception of her. God, I hate Hollywood’s penchant for casting mid-twenty-somethings as teenagers.
Denzel can prep his son all he wants. That will never dwarf experience.
Truth: the 30 year old actress being cast as the Mom role is far worse than this kind of pairing.
That sure was a confusing answer there, Washington. I mean, I don’t even know what I expected, but… Okay? Although now I’m curious at what age does he think they become women and is thus okay. Also would it then not be okay if it was a man?
Indeed, is someone a “man” or “woman” if they’re still young enough to be included on their parents’ insurance policies?
Yes? Tell me, how would you feel being called a child at age 24? Most people by that age are out of college and working on their career path. Surprise, some even own homes and make their own payments on their own cars.
Age is a measure of time and we know that time is relative.
Congratulations, that’s the worst non-answer I’ve ever seen from someone trying to play philosopher.
If they’re both consenting adults playing consenting adults, play ball. There are enough actual pedophiles and sexual assaulters walking free and getting work in Hollywood today (and I’m talking about the actual, verifiable Bryan Singer types, not the Qanon dork Tom Hanks crap). I only have so much outrage in me.
“I only have so much outrage in me.”Exactly. Biden won. People need to take a lap and hit the showers for a while.
Nazi’s know better than to hit the showers.
Easy as that! Time to sit back and relax, fellas.
I don’t think the issue people have is the real 12 year age gap, but the fact that Zendaya looks so young it looks like a twenty year one. The ads for this film look like they’ve remade Night of the Iguana.
Is there really a critic that thinks it would be unrealistic for a male director to be dating a younger woman?
They will always, always find an excuse and justification for older men with younger women on screen. At some point we have to just stop accepting them.
It never ceases to amaze me how much of a deal Americans make over age difference. Love is love is love is love, except if one person is older or something. And I get where it’s coming from, but not all situations involve someone trying to take advantage of someone else. Sometimes people just like each other. If both are consenting adults, it’s fine.
Yeah I agree, she’s 24 and has a pretty solid resume behind her. Zendaya isn’t a teenager, she just played one in movies/on tv. If you’re in your mid-twenties you should be able to date older people in real life and in fictional roles without people getting all indignant for no reason and assuming the younger partner is getting taken advantage of/corrupted/used by the older one. Or that for some reason they’ll have nothing in common.
The objection here is not, I think, that Zendaya is too young for Washington. But rather that you could reasonably give this part to a 30-something actress instead of chewing up the next 24-year-old along the line and then finding her too old to be in romantic films five years from now.
Oh wait, I was supposed to actually read the article, wasn’t I?That I can agree with. I hate seeing the Hollywood machine chewing up and spitting out young actresses. Remember Jennifer Lawrence? Is she too old now or something?
JLaw took a year off in 2019 after Mother! and Red Sparrow (she had already done her part in Dark Phoenix). But that turned into 2 years off with Covid. She’s got a bunch of stuff on the horizon. Almost none of it directed by David O. Kelly.
I think JLaw was more of an overexposure issue. She’s also currently pregnant.
Well, JLaw spent her early 20s flipping between playing a 16-year-old in the Hunger Games, and playing characters that should be pushing 40 in a string of David O. Russell films. Now that she’s 30, she’s probably too old for either.
She coming right into the prime of the mother-of-the-action-hero career phase. She is going to be about 5 years older than the actor playing her son. By the time she’s 10 years older, this phase will be over.
Because why cast the best actress when you can cast via a series of identify bs. They missed a really great opportunity to cast an actress in a wheel chair. Or an all transgender cast. Once you go down that road there’s literally no stopping.
Fwiw, whoever is making this objection has no idea what they are talking about. This film was conceived of and put together personally by Zendaya and Sam Levinson as a means of keeping their Euphoria crew employed when the pandemic shut down production on the show. Nobody cast her; it’s her own project.
That’s an EXCELLENT take. Thank you.
I actually think we have too much “love is love” going on when it comes to age gaps, especially (let’s be honest, I’m talking pretty much exclusively) when the man is older. It’s America — that is an almost inherently shitty power dynamic because of everything we assign to men. Sure, we can intellectualize it and say that it technically doesn’t make a difference on a broad ethical level, but that’s not how things play out in real life. Now, this is mainly true because of how horrible the current generation in that age range is. But that doesn’t make it less true.Also, most situations with men involve them trying to take advantage of something in general.
I do think this depends on whether or not the age difference actually exists in the work. I haven’t seen this yet, but I don’t think the fact that there is an age difference is a plot point. Rather, you’re supposed to assume they are an age appropriate couple which brings up questions about the optics we expect with men and women.This was similar with the complaints around Mank. Gary Oldman is 62 years old playing a character that is supposed to be age 34 – 43 give or take in the time period the movie covers. Tuppence Middleton played his wife. In real life she’s 33 years old and Mank’s real wife was about the same age as him. Amanda Seyfried is 35 playing Marion Davies who at the time of the movie should be 43. The performances are all good, but surely there were actors and actresses the actual age of the characters or the same age as one another. If we’re going to accept Oldman as a 40 year old, why not cast a 60 year old woman as his wife as well?
The film is about a mid-30s Hollywood director, a young movie star, and a discussion of their tenuous marriage on a night when he forgot to thank her at an awards ceremony; and their age difference (and ageist sexism in the industry) is a very deliberate plot point.
I can’t find anything confirming that they were thinking about ageism so I’ll have to wait and see the film. If her being 12 years younger is a plot point then great. My understanding from the critics who brought it up was that it was not.
As a big fan of Zendaya, Sam Levinson, and John David Washington, I’m just a little shocked that an indie passion project made from scratch by artists of their caliber is somehow being blindly attacked as an example of something it very specifically isn’t, especially when there are so many obvious and egregious examples of the problem in the industry at large. And it bears repeating that Levinson and Zendaya were the literal progenitors of this project. She was not cast in this film; she commissioned it. Production on season 2 of Euphoria was halted when the pandemic hit, and Zendaya asked Levinson to write something that could be shot during lockdown in order to keep the Euphoria crew employed. These are very deliberate artists with notable integrity, deep personal and professional respect for one another, and who famously put inclusion, representation, and progressive social commentary at the forefront of their decision-making. Mr. Washington’s response to the question above is a direct vocalization of these sentiments.There are obviously thousands of examples of institutional sexism, ageism, and discrimination in the film industry, but Malcolm & Marie is the exact opposite of one.
To be clear, I’m not particularly concerned about the age difference. I think the reason that it’s getting hit is because this was a discussion already well under way because of Mank and many people felt it was another example.I don’t think anyone is upset that Zendaya is in it. I absolutely think she is a full grown woman and should play full grown women – It does raise some questions about her choosing to also still play teenagers but that’s a different conversation. But it is a choice to cast a man 12 years older than her. Why not ask a mid-20’s actor? Same Levinson still chose the plot line. Allegedly, it was originally some kind of KC Undercover movie. She didn’t say “I want to start in a movie where John David Washington plays my boyfriend.” As you said, there are many egregious examples. But that doesn’t mean we should only talk about those and not a current example. Will it stop me from seeing it? Not at all. Is it still a creative choice that reflects on an issue in Hollywood that is growing? Absolutely.
I’m sorry, I have to rebuke the notion that it was ‘originally a KC’ movie. That is not accurate. You’re referring to a minor anecdote regarding ideas that were spitballed in a creative brainstorm. There was never any legitimate plan of any kind to make a KC Undercover movie. And again, I have to reiterate my strong disagreement that this film’s casting or production belongs in any way in a critical discussion about the sexist ageism in Hollywood. It simply is not that. It’s a two-player character study about a relationship, and the characters are a decade apart in age, which is specifically addressed in said study. If you’re looking for a ‘current example’ of an inexplicable age gap in an onscreen relationship, there are plenty to be found, including the 20-year difference between Paul Bettany and Elizabeth Olsen in WandaVision, which premiered this very week, and is receiving absolutely no such scrutiny. What has happened here is: a reporter asked John David Washington a question about a worthy subject, he gave a worthy answer, and industry/media news publications like this very site have peddled it like hot gossip while providing absolutely zero context for the film’s actual casting and development details, allowing people to simply speculate about and miscontextualize what little information they’ve been provided, and without having even seen the film whose production they’re ethically questioning. It is ridiculously academically unsound, and the subject of gender equality and representation in media deserves far better than this vague, flimsy discourse. I hope my tone isn’t being inaccurately conveyed with any kind of personal contempt; that is certainly not the case. I appreciate your comprehensive engagement.
You can disagree all you want, but there are a few things you’re ignoring:1) Zendaya wanting to work with a creator she enjoys working with and the idea that she commissioned this exact project is not accurate. The KC Undercover anecdote highlights that there was spitballing involved. 2) It is relevant to the current conversation around the way women are cast vs. men. That is not meant to be a slight to Zendaya, John David Washington or the movie, but it is an example of the optics of relationships in many films – Men are cast older than they are meant to be. Women are cast younger. It’s fair play to say that this character study about an age difference wherein the male character is older might play into some larger issues in Hollywood.3) Criticism isn’t automatically a means of suggesting the film was unethical and it is not a flimsy discourse to point that this film serves as an example of this sort of casting. That’s not the same as saying it’s a bad film or that it has a moral requirement to buck the trend. 4) Paul Bettany plays a robot in WandaVision so that changes that example. If John David Washington turned out to be a robot in this one, I’d probably also be like “Oh he’s a robot.” The conversation is not about the difference in actors ages necessarily, but about the way age is portrayed on screen.
“The conversation is not about the differences in actor ages necessarily, but about the way age is portrayed on screen.” In that case, it is completely irrelevant to be having the ‘conversation’ people are having about this film before anyone has even seen it. So again, the present ‘conversation’ about this film is not worthy of inclusion in the ageism/sexism conversation at large. As it stands, it’s just a bunch of click bait articles and misguided (or simply self-gratifying in some cases) conjecture, of which this film’s cast and crew are wholly undeserving. I repeat, this film’s production is in no way relevant to the conversation about ageism and sexism in industry casting, and any speculative criticism of what the film might portray onscreen before it has even been seen is the very definition of asinine. This is a poorly detailed article if it purports to be anything more substantive than slow-news-day click bait.
1) I never implied that she commissioned this exact, precise script. Commissioning a project or service doesn’t necessarily mean that you provide the craftsperson with exact details, only that you engage their services. It was her idea to say, “Hey Sam, let’s make a COVID restrictions-friendly movie or something while our show is suspended so we can stay creative and keep our crew employed.” Obviously, the one of the two of them who is a writer did the writing. You are inferring one very specific and literal definition of the word ‘commission’ here, and I apologize for facilitating that miscommunication. 2) It’s not fair play to speculate critically without having done due diligence. The actual details of this film’s casting preclude its inclusion in any such conversion, and those details are not being provided or considered in any of the reactionary discourse I’ve seen anywhere online surrounding this film. It is an extremely poor example of what people are attempting to say that it exemplifies, plain and simple. And providing poor examples in an important debate is not fair play. 3) This film does not serve as an example of that ‘sort of casting.’ I disagree entirely. 4) See my stand-alone reply.
1) So again the question of why the age difference choice was made is relevant to the conversation because it is a choice the male writer made. 2) You seem to think that there needs to be 100% consensus that this film makes all the right choices. People (and critics) are absolutely allowed to question the plot, the casting, and the choice of age difference just as they always have.4) Not everyone who is criticizing it has not seen it. There are critics who have brought up the same point who have seen the film.
It’s clear to me now that you just want to defend the sanctity of your freedom to speculate broadly. Based on your responses, I don’t think you’re familiar at all with Sam Levinson’s work, and you’re just making general arguments about argument, and misconstruing my very clear, specific comments and rebuttals. Thanks for your time, best regards.
You seem unwilling to accept any opinion or criticism that does not agree with you. I have seen all of Levinson’s work. He’s an excellent writer. It doesn’t make him immune to criticism nor does his work alone prove that there is no way his work is not part of this discussion about how men and women are cast in films. The backstory of the film being inspire by him forgetting to thank his wife, also does not adequately address the concern. You have a very clear agenda of making it out that this film is a flawless masterpiece immune to criticism. It is not.
Once again, you are misconstruing my very clear comments and rebuttals in what is now explicitly bad faith. “A flawless masterpiece that is immune to critcism” in absolutely no way summarizes anything that I have said. I’ve provided context for what is otherwise a vague cloud of uninformed speculation, and I’ve made it clear that I think such speculation lowers the discourse of a very worthy and important discussion. You’re just misshaping what I’ve said to suit your desire to fit the square peg of this as-yet-unseen film into the round hole of a discussion about harmful industry practices that is ill-served by such a poor and flimsy example. The conversation surrounding this film specifically is reactionary, uninformed and poorly substantiated conjecture. You’ve turned this into some argument about freedom to speculate without being asked to self-moderate, and that is something in which I am never interested in participating. Regards.
You keep saying ‘unseen film.’ Much of the conversation is coming from people who HAVE seen the film. It was screened for critics. Not all of the criticism is simply based on googling their ages. Many of the first reactions that were out from the premiere are that it’s great. But some pointed out that the age difference is unnecessary. That is a fair criticism. It’s also not conjecture when some people saying it SAW THE MOVIE. At the same time, people who are saying “the age difference is unnecessary” are also saying “But Zendaya should be nominated for an Oscar.”
On the contrary, based on what I’ve seen, the vast majority of participation in the age-gap ‘criticism’ surrounding this film comes precisely from people who have only googled their ages. That is why I’ve attempted to provide actual context for the discussion. I have NEVER stated that this film is somehow above critical scrutiny; I have said that, upon review of all known detail and context, there just clearly isn’t anything problematic about it. This is an independent film co-financed by the writer/director, not a product of the industry machine. Zendaya was the progenitor of the project; she was not cast by any ageist/sexist studio casting director.The story is about two characters, one of whom is an award-winning film director, and the other is played by the project’s co-founder. It simply doesn’t make sense to cast a mid-20s actor to play a celebrated film director*, unless the story calls for him to be some sort of generational prodigy who somehow found incredible success straight out of film school, a highly uncommon character nuance that would likely take up story real estate that isn’t germane to the point of the project. *(Unless you would have the casting age requirement be the primary motivating factor for the pure sake of eliminating any actor age gap with Zendaya, and at the expense of story sensibility, which itself is textbook ageism.) If you can shrug off the Paul Bettany/Elizabeth Olsen 20-year age gap with something as simple as ‘but he’s a robot’, then this should be just as simple, by your own logic. The suppositions you have put forth simply do not hold up to scrutiny. I never said they shouldn’t be considered, but rather that it shouldn’t take very long to do so, because it appears quite evident that there is nothing here of any substance worthy of inclusion in the advocacy arguments for the abolition of discriminatory casting in Hollywood or healthier on-screen portrayals of relationship age gaps and power dynamics. You are telling me I am not considering this issue with enough critical open-mindedness, and I refute that wholeheartedly. I am looking at this in the fullest context relatively possible, and with the most responsibly open perspective of which I am capable, and I stand by my conclusion that this is a non-story, and that the aforementioned advocacy arguments are more diminished by this film’s inclusion in them than they are enhanced. It’s not an irrational dismissal, it’s a rational conclusion. If we disagree, we disagree.
Wait, why wasn’t that mentioned in the article….? That point deflates almost everything I’ve read prior to this point about a movie I know nothing about beyond this article…. I feel like the AV Club duped me into being upset about something irrelevant if the film actually talks about the age/power dynamic.
Well I’ve wasted time on yet another misleading AV Club article…. Been here for several years but I’m starting to think “This website posts shitty misleaing articles about nothing on slow news days”.
I don’t give a damn who dates who. Is it legal and consensual? Cool. It’s there life. No one’s business. Regarding actors If the chemistry and characters work on screen, that’s what I care about. I don’t spend time clocking people’s ages. But, we are in the age where nearly everything is a problem or needs investigating.
I can literally feel the decades that made this comment possible through the screen.
I can literally feel the decades that made this comment possible through the screen.
Also, I meant to write their life. Weird autocorrect. Couldn’t edit the post.
Also, most situations with humans involve them trying to take advantage of something in general.
thank you, O Wise Sage! I hadn’t even considered the possibility!
Ah, that explains your ramblings. Happy to help!
case in point
?
As with most things the outrage is more present online than in real life. 10-15 year age gaps aren’t that uncommon in the USA, even older women and younger men.And age differences are barely an issue at all in LGBTQ circles though power dynamics still are.I think, like it’s been said here, some of the objection does have to do with with the entertainment industry discarding actresses as they age, which is a great and fair point.I think another element is Americans are so obsessed with teenagers and Europeans tend to focus on adults more in their culture. There’s way too much to unpack with that one though.
Those age gaps aren’t that uncommon but the average age difference between a married couple in the U.S. is two and a half years. Most couples are actually fairly close in age.
Yeah that’s true, but also consider most married (het) couples are in it to have a family. If you’re having kids and everything that entails you’ll usually be with someone roughly your age (and roughly in the same stage of life, and ideally with the same long term goals.)Once you get out of familyland those things matter a lot less. I don’t care so much about my partner’s age as I’m not having kids or sharing a bank account.
As with many of these things, things that aren’t problematic at an individual level illustrate profound issues at a certain scale. Individually, love is love, and, like you, I find age normativity a bit toxic. But when you look at society (and its hollywoodian normative mirror) and see how the immense majority of age difference have the man being older than the woman, you realize there’s something really creepy going on in terms of gender politics and power dynamics. In terms of what is expected from “the man” and what is expected from “the woman”.Individual life is hard to judge. But collective phenomenons are more telling. And we’re unfortunately not in a situation of healthy gender symmetry. Statistics make it shocking.And, as often (as with the issue of minority casting, etc), what I’m hoping for is more diversity, more reversed age gaps. Not the implied solution of narrowed possibilities.
Not been watching MILF Island?
There’s always a detachable hypothetical here where people will suggest the relationship is ingenuine and manipulative, then switch it back off when they have to insist on love because they can’t look prudish or unintellectual.
This is “Harold & Maude” all over again. Wait, no it isn’t.
I know that the film/television industry has a pretty bad history with casting schlubby, witless, older guys who act like children with much younger, responsible, and intelligent women who are supposed to clean up after the former character’s messes and serve as a shrew/plot point. Though in this case I don’t see the big deal, Zendaya is 24 and has gotten plenty of work in the industry so she isn’t some impressionable youth. If it works for the plot and characterization then there shouldn’t be a problem with 12 years.
Older women deserve roles that aren’t just “grandma” or “favorite aunt” or “mentor” but ones that show them as viable romantic partners. That being said, while age gaps can be uncomfortable when the older partner has some sort of power advantage over the younger one (like in “Mad Men” when guys run off with their 20-something secretaries), film and tv also shouldn’t push the narrative that only people within a few years of one another make suitable partners. Catherine Zeta-Jones and Michael Douglas, Aaron Taylor-Johnson and Sam-Taylor Wood, Naveen Andrews and Barbara Hershey. All of them had significant age gaps.
My dad has a good fifteen years on my mom, but they met when they were already both doctors and not at a time where his age/position would have made her dependent on him. And the gap in years has never been an issue in their marriage or raising my sister and me.
Anybody bother to ask Zendaya what she thinks about it?
I believe women are allowed to make their own choices on age gaps when they are 30 or older. We must treat them like children before that.
Yeah, but she’s 30 in llama years.
Lol EXACTLY. I’ve made my point in other comments, but the gist is that she wasn’t ‘cast by Hollywood’ in this film; she literally made this project happen. Furthermore, the subject matter of the film itself specifically includes commentary on the couple’s age difference and its highly problematic nature in the movie industry (the characters are a director/actor married couple.) The entire notion that Zendaya was somehow victimized here is extemely condescending and ill-informed, and it’s made even worse by the fact that there are literally THOUSANDS of actual examples of ageist sexism in the industry. And Mr. Washington’s response to the inquiry was as respectful and reverential as it gets. It’s a very worthy conversation, but not in any way relevant to this film’s casting.
Clearly not. Also these kinds of “controversies” always ignore what everyone really knows and nobody likes to discuss in truth, which is that younger women are very often genuinely attracted to older men, and that’s a big reason why you see those pairings so much. And you know what? They have a right to date whoever they want to.
His answer is possibly the best possible response to a ridiculous non-issue.Also, as a guy in my thirties, I have to figure out what it is with this new trend of 20-to-30-something year-old men acting like handwringing New England schoolmarms. “Good heavens! An older man and a YOUNGER woman? What will be done about this?”
Fictional or not, I’m steadfast in my conviction that anyone who obsesses over an age gap between two people, even more so if they’re fictional, is just outing themselves as a loser.
sparking fresh critique of Hollywood’s penchant for casting woman under the age of 30 in roles that could easily be awarded to older actresses. It’s interesting that this is the “problem” rather than casting a younger male lead.
I wonder part of this has to do with Zendaya being the “teen” actor, so people are not used to her playing her actual age…
Meanwhile, WandaVision stars Lizzie Olsen and Paul Bettany have an 18 year age gap…
But Vision is only a few years old. Now who’s creepy?
Isn’t Wanda technically a pedophile?
… and dead!
Will nobody think of the dead synthetic children?
Well if we don’t think of them, then they disappear.
At this moment, on the (by all accounts rightfully) acclaimed WandaVision, 31 year old Elizabeth Olsen (Feb 1989) is playing wife to 50 year old Paul Bettany (May 1971).I wonder what the difference is that’s causing this pairing to be such a topic for moral handwringing? I can’t imagine…
It’s at least partially because Zendaya is a former Disney child star who has been famous since she was 14 and still primarily plays teenage characters, whereas Elizabeth Olsen was 21 when she first started acting and has largely played age appropriate characters (or at least characters within an ambiguous mid to late 20s range). Both have been working for a decade at this point but audience perception is that Zendaya still ‘passes’ as a child in the roles that she takes ,whereas I think the youngest role Olsen has played was of a 19 year old in a little seen independent film (that specifically revolves around the problematic nature of decade-plus age gaps in relationships and the imbalanced power dynamic in relationships between young women and older men). Correct me if I’m wrong, but I take it you’re saying the difference in reaction to these pairings is because of race, which I don’t disagree is definitely a factor. But I think the primary difference lies in the audience’s perception of Zendaya and Olsen, not to mention Bettany’s age is somewhat obscured by the prosthetics he wears to play Vision, as well as the fact the pairing of Olsen and Bettany started in 2015 so obviously will carry less discussion compared to the newer pairing of Zendaya and Washington.
They’re both red?
Arguing that it creates a lack of options for older actresses is one argument, but many people are just infantilizing Zendaya. She is an adult. She’s in her mid-20’s. Plenty of actual women in their mid-20’s are in serious, intimate relationships.
Addressed, deflected, toe-may-toe, toe-mah-toe…
I thought it was “it’s ok to date someone half your age plus 7 years”.
In this case she’s one year too young, which breaks the rule so clearly they fail that question on the maths test.
His answer grossed me out for some odd reason…I think the the problem most people are having with this movie is that she is still playing teenager roles and their brains cannot make the switch. Zendaya also looks very young in comparison to her costar Washington which again doesn’t sit right and gives off a whole Lolita vibe.
Such an amazing hyperbole. Lolita vibes. Come on!At this point, actors bounce from teenager to adult roles all the time. It’s called acting. And we are dealing with grown adults who can work as teenagers without it being distracting.
The premise of this article and the surrounding conversation is erroneous: Zendaya was not cast for this role by ‘Hollywood’, she literally put this project together with Sam Levinson, her Euphoria show-runner, as a way of keeping their crew employed when the show’s production was halted due to the pandemic. The role was subsequently written for her, specifically, and at her request. This precludes any notion that this specific project is a viable example of the otherwise egregious and rampant sexist practices of ageism (among many other facets) against women in Hollywood.In fact, this film is one of the rare examples of a young woman in the industry wielding formidable and much-deserved power to manifest her will to make a project happen at a time when so many other players found themselves inert and impotent in the face of industry-wide shutdown. I think that Mr. Washington gave a deeply respectful and reverential answer when asked a question regarding his co-worker that he felt was misapplied and ill-informed, and I think attempting to submit this particular film’s production as evidence of an otherwise incredibly well-documented travesty – in terms of actual examples to choose from – in the industry is misguided, does more harm than good, and is passively accusatory of exactly the wrong people. I would suggest that any further discussion involving this film with respect to ageist sexism in Hollywood casting include the actual details of this project’s casting (and not just assume that ‘Hollywood’ cast Zendaya in her own film), or at the VERY least, let the film have a chance to speak for itself, as it is literally about a mid-30s Hollywood director, a young movie star, and their tenuous marriage and the power dynamics therein, and written by someone with a proven track record of outspoken advocacy for respectful representation in his work.
I hope that Mr. Washington doesn’t get bashed for taking this role. Already Tenet had a troubled release. Additionally, since Ms. Coleman is biracial, I hope that the objections aren’t because some people perceive her as “white-adjacent” in addition to her age. Hopefully he doesn’t get too defensive, and just move on to other projects. Hopefully something with Marvel. Hopefully Ms. Coleman can play Lena Horne someday.
I thought the rule of thumb was 1/2 your age, plus 7 years, in which case Zendaya is 1 year too young. Case closed! Although i suppose really it depends on what ages are for the characters the actors are portraying
I think the issue is that she looks very young, despite her age. She could easily pass for 15-16 and still plays that age in movies.
She does look younger than her age to me. It makes the age difference look bigger.
36 year old men date 24 year old women all the time in the real world, so it in itself is not a problem. I just wish his response had been something along the lines of “the roles were written for their to be an age difference” or “the age difference is an intentional part of the dynamic between the characters” rather than “she’s mature for her age” which is a little too close creepy for my taste