Loki creator Michael Waldron to hopefully get the next two Avengers movies back on track
Things are happening behind-the-scenes on the next two Avengers movies
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It looks like Marvel Studios’ plans for the end of the MCU’s “Phase Six” are solidifying behind the scenes… or they’re undergoing even more upheaval and are less solid than ever before. It’s really impossible to tell, and the only person who probably can is Marvel Studios boss Kevin Feige—and since he’s too busy designing a baseball hat for the Deadpool 3 premiere, he’s not going to be dishing the dirt any time soon.
Either way, Deadline says that Michael Waldron—creator of Disney+’s Loki and showrunner on its first season—will be writing the next two Avengers movies, initially announced as Avengers: The Kang Dynasty and Avengers: Secret Wars (though it’s unclear if any of the studio’s initial plans are still in place). Waldron was previously announced as the writer for Secret Wars only, but he’ll now be writing the preceding film as well, which definitely speaks to something even if nobody knows exactly what.
The Kang Dynasty did just lose its director, with Destin Daniel Cretton taking a step back so he could focus on all of the other stuff Marvel is having him do, so it would make sense that the studio would take this as an opportunity to reconfigure some things—if that is what it’s doing. There is also the whole Jonathan Majors factor, which seems relevant here for a number of reasons beyond it being yet another behind-the-scenes thing going on.
If Majors (and his run as new MCU villain Kang) were less of a question mark, Waldron would make a lot of sense: He introduced arguably the most compelling version of that character so far in Loki’s first season, with the version seen in Loki’s second season being… less compelling, so he might have a good handle on what to do for Kang’s big villain movie.
Orrrr maybe Feige trusts him to know how to handle some of the wacky multiverse nonsense that’s going to be happening in these next two movies and it has nothing to do with Kang. After all, Waldron did also write Doctor Strange In The Multiverse Of Madness, which was almost entirely about that kind of nonsense. That movie was less successful with what it was trying to do than Loki was, though, so it remains impossible to tell how any of us are supposed to feel about this.
Perhaps the one concrete thing that Marvel fans can take away from this is that the studio is still doing something rather than throwing up its hands and waiting for a different Kevin Feige from an alternate universe (this one has a gorgeous head of luxurious hair and never wears baseball hats) to step through an inter-dimensional portal and offer to fix everything. It happened to Spider-Man, so it’s not completely unheard of.
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It looks like Marvel Studios’ plans […] are solidifying behind the scenes… or they’re undergoing even more upheaval and are less solid than ever before.In conclusion Marvel is a land of contrasts. Thank you.
Say what you will about Marvel’s recent troubles, but it’s almost remarkable that they’ve even been remotely successful after Endgame considering only two Phase 1 lead characters have headlined a Phase 4 or 5 film (Black Widow and Thor: Love and Thunder)
I think one of the biggest problems Marvel’s been having recently is that the proliferation of mystical nonsense (other universes, quantum realms, universe-altering devices) gets in the way of the ability to tell relatable stories with real stakes. Loki could easily have been the worst example of that problem — it’s about an eternal Norse god exiled to a bureaucracy managing time, and falling in love with another version of himself. Yet instead, the show triumphed. Particularly in the first season, all the mystical stuff felt compelling and exciting, not like an exhausting chore. And Waldron managed to develop several relationships viewers really cared about and introduced a villain who was truly memorable.At least when it comes to the Kang movies, Marvel’s probably too far along to create simpler storylines that are less dominated by nonsense. Waldron at least seems like the right conductor for that very unwieldy train.
I think one of the biggest problems Marvel’s been having recently is that the proliferation of mystical nonsense (other universes, quantum realms, universe-altering devices) gets in the way of the ability to tell relatable stories with real stakes. This is why I like the origin stories more than anything else – they’re personal, not “OMFGWTFBBQ THE ENTIRE WORLD- NAY, THE UNIVERSE- NAY, THE MULTIVERSE is under threat!” of the follow-ups – we know how those ones are gonna turn out.
What Loki did, despite the fantastical elements, was keep the plot pretty simple, scale down the big nonsensical action pieces and focus on characters. Long stretches of the show is just two people talk about stuff – including the final confrontation with the big bad. While other MCU stuff (shows and films alike) suffer from these bombastic CGI fests where flying characters shoot differently coloured magic/lasers/whatever at each other, in Loki they just sit down and have a chat. They aren’t even fighting anyone directly in the S2 finale and it’s one of the most satisfying conclusions in the whole MCU.
I don’t think they gave themselves enough breathing room after Endgame. Obviously the money spigot needed more movies after that, but it would’ve been better if they scaled down for a few years before launching into a big new saga. Love and Thunder could’ve been two or three movies with Gorr bouncing around to have a bit more space to establish him as a bigger threat and had a nice big-but-not-Endgame-big event while Earthbound heroes dealt with smaller scale fun adventures and team-ups in one-off movies where the overarching saga to come was only hinted at in after-credits scenes just like the run-up to Endgame. It just felt like they were too eager to get to Endgame 2 and they’re rushing the legwork while people are still coming down from the highs of that major event.
IMO the new Falcon-led Avengers and Thunderbolts stuff is the perfect opportunity to get back to that Winter Soldier style goodness. Just a bunch of people who stay on Earth and hit things hard. Just do like 2 Avengers movies about that, and then the audience will be ready for some wacky Secret Wars stuff again.
Does anyone actually give a damn about Kang besides Kevin Fiege? They’re going all in on a boring and confusing villain played by a guy who’s about to go on trial for domestic abuse. It’s baffling to me that Marvel is betting the whole franchise on this character. Not even Thanos ever got his name in the title.
Kang is fine. He’s generally well-regarded as an Avengers villain, and the character had some decent moments. This? Clearly filling in for Doctor Doom (and it’s stupid to do a Secret Wars *without* Doom).
There have been Dr Doom casting rumors so maybe he’ll be on board by the time they get to Secret Wars, especially with all of the Fantastic Four casting announcements. Kang has been fine but I really haven’t found Jonathan Majors all that compelling in the role (definitely shit the bed as Victor Timely).
If Loki can be a woman who looks nothing like what’s his name, then Jonathan Majors doesn’t have to be the ‘final’ Kang, right? Or has the multiverse lost me, conceptually?
Man, that recent Jon Hamm interview made me realize he would’ve been an epic, perfect Kang. Big missed opportunity there.
that recent Jon Hamm interview made me realize he would’ve been an epic, perfect KangHe’d make a better Reed Richards, but I guess that’s not happening. He does want to be in the MCU and he will be just fine whatever they cast him as.
There’s a bunch of X-Men characters he could play. I could see him as Angel, provided they interpret him an older CEO type (which is his current role in the comics, as the head of the mutant pharmaceutical company X-Corp.)
He’ll be awesome in whatever, but I just hope he’s not wasted. He’s good enough to use as a recurring character or a villain with major impact.He’d be a good Dr. Doom, but it would be a shame for his face to be covered up the whole time.
Kang is a very good villain character (in the comics he’s definitely one of the big two Avengers villains with Ultron), but they’ve introduced him in the most confusing and overly complicated manner. He’s pretty straightforward. An unstoppable conqueror from the future who has never known defeat until he faces the Avengers. That’s it. All this multi-verse stuff was never an integral part of the character in his original stories, and even when they introduced variants like Immortus, Rama Tut, or the Council of Kangs they weren’t integral to every Kang story.
i mean no normal person cared about thanos either. the issue is majors, not kang.
No normal person cared about Thanos when he was just an end-credits villain, but when he showed up in Infinity War people cared. Kang has already showed up as the baddie in a movie and he was boring.
well fair enough.
Not even Thanos ever got his name in the title.They are just naming the movie after the comic book event. Same as they did with Age of Ultron (who did get his name in the title), Infinity War, Civil War, and will do with Secret Wars.
Honestly wonder if they will just recast Kang. the main problem with Kang is that he is just not built up as well as a major villain. Kang needs a win a good one and as a character he doesn’t have one
I think the bigger problem is they haven’t let him cook in the background like they did with Thanos. The fun in comics, and comic book storytelling, is you can have multiple protagonists and antagonists going in parallel, and Kang was the perfect character to sprinkle around across different properties interacting with different characters to varying degrees (or not at all) without requiring he be the focus until whatever his deal is becomes apparent.WandaVision/The Marvels? S.W.O.R.D. agent. Eternals & Moon Knight? Rama-Tut. Doctor Strange Dos? Random janitor at Illuminati HQ. Ms. Marvel? Idk, a flashback of the villain from the other world where he’s a djinn onscreen for a split second, or something.Point is. The fact that he’s basically only shown up in 2 properties, when the entire premise of his character is he can exist across practically all of time and space, makes him feel really small.Loki, in a way, kinda blew the candles out on my idea. But had they been doing that all throughout Phase 4? The concept of Kang as interdimensional warlord would make far more sense.
It was a profound misunderstanding of the character to introduce him from a place of weakness. At the very least, he should’ve clearly dominated Quantumania as an adversary, and had a clear win there.
have they technically even introduced ‘him’ yet? genuine question.
Isn’t it messed up that you have this genuine question? Like Marvel has dropped the ball here. Because I’m not sure if I know, and I love this stuff. My best guess is the Quantumania variant was supposed to be him, the one we are meant to worry about and Kang Dynasty is build around. Whether it was or not, that is certainly the main introduction most people got to him.
so funny they have that end credit sequence with like 10,000 of them and we’re probably just gonna have to forget about it.
Thanos spent six years losing every fight he was in, had about ten minutes of screentime, and then in Infinity War he shows up as a badass for the first time.Everything they’ve done with Kang in Loki has worked for me so far. Everything they did with Kang in Quantumania hasn’t because they didn’t let anyone sacrifice anything to stop him.It’s not even that Kang lost. It’s that Kang lost and NO ONE ELSE DID EITHER. And then instead of Kang you have a post-credit scene with a bunch of random guys who hate Kang that the movie promises to unleash randomly on the universe as if anyone is going to watch infinite Kang movies.Trap Hope in the Quantum realm. Have Kang infiltrate the Council of Kangs so we know he’s more dangerous than they are. There’s your cliffhanger.
But they did do that. Ahsoka and Sabine are stuck in that planet with no way back and Thrawn is back and more dangerous than the rest of the imperial remnant, which we know because his stormtroopers are spooky looking as fuck. Oh shit, wait. What are we talking about?
They should have just made the next Avengers villain the Kree Empire. I mean the Kree Supreme Intelligence can pretty much be anyone, plus you have Annette Benning right there. And if you want to go extra crazy you can do the giant green head in a tank of water.
Wow, hard no. The Kree Empire have always been kinda boring, and aside from the Supreme Intelligence and Ronan they are pretty generic as a group of characters. They were easily the weakest elements in both Captain Marvel movies.
The Kree are basically Marvel’s space Nazis, so there has always been a lot to do with them that the movies kind of glossed over (namely that the Kree-Skrull War was started by the Kree being pissed that the Skrulls didn’t trust them enough with technology, so they murdered their neighbors, stole their technology that the Kree gave them to develop their planet, retrofitted it, then started an interstellar war that conquered the galaxy specifically in order to wipe out the Skrulls in a blood feud).The Kree keep getting dropped because they’re so overtly political as a villain metaphor from their constant experimentations that created the Inhumans to their genocidal rampages just to make sure one single Skrull doesn’t survive on Earth, they’re a really good villain that keeps getting glossed over and underwritten.Legitimately, Secret Invasion should have just had the Skrulls investigating Kree infiltration of the planet and all of Olivia Colman’s weird fascist stuff and understanding that the Skrulls are on Earth could have been explained as her being an actual space fascist working with humans to hunt down Skrulls without pissing off Captain Marvel.
The movies are definitely not using them to their best, but even at their best they are pretty generic space Nazis. There’s lots of better stories I would prefer Marvel spent its energy adapting.
Yeah Shi’ar > Kree. But they kinda ruined Skrulls and The Marvels was a dud so I vote they let the cosmic stuff cool off for a good while.
The Skrull twist in the first Captain Marvel movie was interesting, but it did kind of dampen their villainy potential.I think The Marvels could’ve overcome a bit of the Kree issue by bringing back Jude Law as the villain. He was pretty good in the first film, and would’ve given the sequel a bit of extra oomph.
Guy looks a lot like Ashton Kutcher. Are we sure we aren’t all being punk’d?
He’s the halfway point between Ashton Kutcher and Bill Paxton.
Loki stinks. This guy is a major lightweight. Oh, well. I couldn’t care less about the MCU at this point anyway.
I’m struggling to bother watching s2 of Loki. Doctor Strange In The Multiverse Of Madness was a mess; all the Wanda stuff built up in that intriguing show was squandered. I don’t see this showrunner as the guy who can return anything to ‘form’.
The only thing that remotely interests me about Loki S2 is Ke Huy Quan. But, so far, that hasn’t been enough to take the plunge into what will certainly be another utterly dull/pointless season.
So noted in the official record.
Much appreciated!
I couldn’t care lessYes, you seem to be quite adamant about your indifference.
Not really, no.
Cool story.
Me complaining about shows I don’t like is all I have left at this point.
Seems about right.
Why bother? Marvel and DC had their moments and it’s time to pack in in*. * (minus Batman and Spider-Man, we will never tire of them)
Perhaps not everyone agrees with this assessment.