Maisie Williams was “surprised” by that Game Of Thrones sex scene–because she thought Arya was queer
Williams previously said she initially thought the script was "a prank"
Aux News Maisie Williams
Happy Pride Month, Game Of Thrones fans: the “A” in LGBTQIA now stands for Arya Stark. So says Maisie Williams herself, coming out as an ally to all the lesbian Arya truthers out there.
Williams made her opinion known in a Teen Vogue “Firsts” video. “The first time that I was surprised by Arya I guess was probably in the final series where she whips off her clothes and sleeps with Gendry,” she admitted. “I thought that Arya was queer, you know? So… yeah. That was a surprise.”
There were a lot of surprises in Game Of Thrones’ final episodes, and fans found many of them unpleasant. Arya’s brief fling with Gendry was hardly the most controversial shake-up of the season. But it did rankle a certain group of dedicated fans that perceived the character–who was kind of a gender non-conforming icon, by Westeros standards–as not straight.
Back in the day, Williams recalled the first time she read the script for her sex scene with Joe Dempsie for Entertainment Weekly. “At first, I thought it was a prank,” she said. (Writers David Benioff and Dan Weiss had given their actors fake-out scripts before.) “I was like, ‘Yo, good one.’ And [the showrunners were] like, ‘No, we haven’t done that this year.’ Oh fuck!”
In the same interview, Dempsie–who is around ten years older than Williams–pointed out another uncomfortable aspect of the scene: “It’s obviously slightly strange for me because I’ve known Maisie since she was 11, 12 years old,” he admitted. “At the same time, I don’t want to be patronizing toward Maisie — she’s a 20-year-old woman. So we just had a lot of fun with it.”
Fans can argue whether or not that one moment of passion served the story or the character or even the actors. But for this one moment, let’s join Williams in imagining Arya post-GOT, traveling the world, kick ass, and living her best queer life. Gendry who?!
223 Comments
Wow. It was nice for the character to have a fun moment at the time, but does this ever show just how wildly off the showrunners were from reality at that point/mailing it in. Their main breakout character had an entirely different conception of the role she was playing!
Did she not watch the episode where Arya was ogling Gendry when he was shirtless at the forge in Harrenhal?
Nothing wrong with eyeing a work of art even if you have no plans on touching it.
Well said.
Well yeah, but the only times we have her showing sexual attraction is towards a man. She never shows sexual attraction towards a female character, and she neither does nor says anything else that says gay or queer or bisexual, so where did this assumption come from? Just because a girl is a “tomboy” doesn’t mean she’s gay. And just because she wears pants and doesn’t want to be sold into marriage to some dandy she doesn’t love and likes to do adventury things doesn’t mean she’s gay. It would have been super lazy characterization.
Glad you all know better about the character than the woman playing her for years. /s
We don’t know more. The character is what’s portrayed on the screen. We know exactly as much as she does because we saw the same show. If she thought she was portraying a queer character, she did not communicate that through the screen.
I notice you wrote “playing” and not “writing”.
Also, why would the actor’s interpretation of their character be the law? In what world is that a reasonable conclusion to jump to?
Yes, as a straight woman, I check out other women all the time. I probably look at women more than I look at men.
To be fair, women typically put forth more effort to be pleasing to the eye.
Not if that’s not important to them
I did say “typically”, thus allowing for exceptions but not so many as to undermine Fiona’s generalization.
Boy, she really likes trail mix.
That’s far from conclusive. Lots of queer masc women and gender non-conforming or trans people have experienced a confusing “wait, do I want to be this person or screw this person” interest that mimics infatuation.
It’s also more evidence than the total LACK of evidence that Arya was gay. Asexual? I could see that based on, again, evidence. Arya never showed attraction to another woman. You might as well say that Arya had a sexual fetish for swords. Or murder. She really seemed to be into both!
Nah, she was clearly sexually attracted to Gendry for a while, so I wouldn’t say asexual but I agree there’s definitely no evidence for queer besides…she wears pants.
In this case Arya actually does come closer to figuring out what she wants after screwing someone, which is not unheard of.
Much like Dany with the Iron Fleet, Maisie Williams just kind of forgot that Arya wasn’t gay.
Seriously, she could definitely be bi or pan or “pretty much lesbian but hot for Gendry because FUCKING LOOK AT HIM!”
Bisexual people exist.
And they have no inherent objection to hooking up with Gendry.
Gendry when he was shirtless at the forge in HarrenhalZinda, his face black, his eyes redShaka, when the walls fell
Yeah there’s a lot to complain about the final season, but, this seems like a total misreading of the character by Maisie. Arya had to see if she could see if she could be happy with Gendry after their experience together. He was someone that made her feel like maybe she could want that type of life. And that moment confirmed that it wasn’t for her, she needed to go out into the world.She’s off on that one.
See, that very reason is why I don’t think her fucking Gendry one time confirms anything at all necessarily. It’s all a spectrum of course. I personally know more than one lesbian who has a biological child with a man, begat from a “heterosexual” relationship before those girls were ready to accept themselves, come out, however you want to put it. And I’m from a small town in Alabama lol. What I’m saying is that “queer” takes a lot of different forms, and just because Arya had sex with a man one time doesn’t mean she isn’t bisexual or even homosexual – it’s just something that happened. One piece of experience in what could be (and often is) an endless tapestry of any person’s sexuality.
Maybe she’s just projecting herself onto her character.
I believe the guy who played Jaime said he had arguments with the writers that he did not understand why his character was making the choices they had him making.
I notice that several of the actors who had difficult or unredeemed characters were unhappy. Almost like everyone thinks their character earned/deserved redemption.
Oh, I suppose he thought it was “inconsistent” and “weird” and “monumentally fucked up,” to hook up with Brienne only to immediately dump her and run off and die in a pile of rubble with his toxic sister-lover, thus negating his entire arc?
Oh come on now. There’s no other ending that would’ve made sense for him. She was his Fated Doom as obviously as Oedipus’ prophecy.
“thus negating his entire arc?”
The fuck are you talking about?
So, having a differing interpretation of a character means someone is “wildly off from reality”? Did I miss the part where Maisie Williams is George RR Martin? She didn’t create the character, she just fucking played it. Her interpretation is not law.
I’d love to know where Maisie got this idea. You can knock the writers for this misunderstanding but communication is a two way street. And confirmation bias isn’t only a thing that people I dislike do. I love Maisie, Arya, and LGBTQ+ folks. I don’t get this idea about Arya at all.
Same place some fans got it, in her head probably
There’s not actually much in the text to suggest that Arya is queer. The only argument to be made there would be the fact that she likes wearing pants and fighting, which would be reductive given we also have Brienne who does both of those things and also clearly likes men.In the books, there are several references to her finding Gendry attractive and looking at his body appreciatively. We see that in Season 2 of the show.The biggest parallels are made between her and Lyanna who also liked non-feminine activities, but was also seemingly into men. One could argue that Arya’s masculinity is largely reinforced by circumstance – if her father lived, would she have ended up being completely different? Her life would have been.That’s to say nothing of the fact that GRRM has said there were versions of the original outline where she ended up with Jon, some of which still shows.Can’t blame this one on Benioff and Weiss.
“That’s to say nothing of the fact that GRRM has said there were versions of the original outline where she ended up with Jon, some of which still shows.” Oof.
Yeah, and you can kind of see it in some of the early interactions once you know it…
OR, take this as an example of how you will believe and/or twist literally anything to fit your vision of the narrative.
yes, and obviously the actors playing the characters on the show are CLEARLY the ones who know what is supposed to happen and creatively how it goes!
it’s like when you go to the doctor and tell them what’s wrong with you, how they should fix it, what surgery and medicine to provide, and why. You know, like how modern medical care works. Right?
It was funny to come back to this comment a couple days later. Y’all took this wildly different from what I wrote lol.
You don’t understand that an actor’s interpretation is not “reality”. Lots of people pointed that out.
*I* was surprised, mainly because I thought she was still a minor. So I guess we all have our reactions to things.
“*I* was surprised, mainly because I thought she was still a minor.
Awwww, you were surprised because you think underage people don’t have sex? That is utterly, adorably childlike and naive.
Minors don’t have sex?
I thought there was some clearly telegraphed chemistry even when Gendry thought she was a boy. If anything I wondered if he might be queer.
Uhhh, sure ok. What a weird comment, honestly.The “chemistry” you saw was from Gendry not being a fan of bullies. Hence his interest/protection (or “chemistry”) of “Ary”. That AND the fact that he caught on quickly that she was a girl pretending to be a boy.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SweetOnPollyOliver
It comes out in the books that Gendry is not the dummy everyone takes him for and he figured out she was a “she” pretty early on (always needing to take private time to “make water” and lots of other clues).
I never thought she convincingly pulled off passing as a boy so no, I never thought Gendry was queer. I just believed he always saw through her disguise and knew she was a girl. I think there’s a lot of projecting going on here by others including Maisie.
I have no memory of this at all. Actually most of that last season is a blur. I think my brain may be protecting me.
Okay, but doesn’t “queer” imply she might still be sexually attracted to cis/hetero men?
Not inherently, feel free to learn what the word queer means
In the 21st century, queer became increasingly used to describe a broad spectrum of non-normative sexual and/or gender identities and politics.Maybe you should learn what the word “inherently” means, because I used plenty of qualifying language in my first comment.
I appreciate you replying to dickbags while still keeping them in the grays.
I’m STILL trying to get out of the greys over on Jezebel, I ain’t helping dickbags get out of them here.
Good on ya. I love doing that to greys who try to troll. (It’s also really obvious where they come over from, too.)(It’s kotaku. It’s always kotaku.)
Yeah. I’m a cis guy and my vagina-having partner is queer as heck.
Yes, absolutely correct and came here to say the same thing. Queer women can still be attacked to cis/hetero men. Women who are bisexual are also queer. People labeled a “girl” at birth who don’t identify as “women” are also queer and can still be attracted cis/hetero men.Additionally, even if she was lesbian, the sex scene with Gendry still makes sense. She’s clearly a bit confused about who she is and what life she wants. Being with Gendry would be the most socially acceptable/normal route her life could take…so she tries it, confirms that that life isn’t for her and pursues a life that is. Is that what experimenting and finding one’s self is all about?
That was my first thought reading this. She still may be queer. There are multiple facets of queerness that aren’t exclusively same-sex attracted.
I sort of always read Arya as Ace, if anything. Of course, she’s 9 in the books, and whatever age curve the show used to find the spot between youthful innocence and “No, absolutely not” for its younger characters, I’ve always viewed all the Stark children as children. So whatever Arya is or isn’t, I was really rather hoping that scene wouldn’t happen.
I really wish people would stop doing this whenever a character is said or hinted to be gay
Stop doing what, exactly? She was never hinted to be gay.
What do you think this article is about
There is no proof in the show or in the books that Arya was gay or that Maisie Williams had ever had a conversation with the showrunners about her opinion.In the books, there are repeated mentions of how she feels about men including Gendry and how she finds them attractive. Additionally, the author has referred to her as straight and had originally wanted her to end up with Jon Snow, a detail that still shows in some of the books.
Nobody said there was
Then in what way was the character said or hinted to be gay if no one ever hinted or said it?
Reading the article you replied to is A1
The article says nothing about a character being explicitly gay or even being hinted at being gay. The actual text of the show doesn’t either.
Ok, so you’re apparently reading a completely different article than the one you commented on
Hi recognitions. It looks like, once again, I’m gonna have to play the bisexual card.There is absolutely nothing wrong with anything that anyone on this thread has said, except you. It is fine for someone to think of Arya as asexual, especially as the commenter in question links it to their perception of her as a child. It is fine for people to acknowledge that there is no textual evidence for Arya being queer, because it’s true. If you’re not at least willing to explain your opposition to all this, then leave it.
This brand of ‘advocacy’ helps no-one. Stop trolling people under the guise of being an ally.
Somehow I don’t think I need to take advice about how to be an ally from someone who capes for white supremacists
I did that? Where?
Lol go cry over Kyle Rittenhouse some more
Oh I see. Well, since you’re dragging in a discussion from another thread onto here out of desperation for a comeback, I’ll just post the link to the comment you’re referencing. That way if people are watching they can decide if I was ‘crying over Kyle Rittenhouse’ or ‘caping for white supremacists.’https://www.avclub.com/1849074797And here, some bonus content for them (first thread on this page). If you don’t recall, this is the thread where I, a member of the LGBTQ+ community, asked you a total of nine times (always politely) if you’d stop trolling and ad homming people under the guise of advocacy for our community (something you’d earlier insisted a good ally should do). And your response was to weasel out of the question each and every time, insult me, and crybully against me and everyone else in the thread.
https://www.avclub.com/matt-damon-wants-everyone-to-know-that-he-never-actuall-1847414675
Right, the comment where you said the homicidal lunatic and Proud Boy should have been found innocent and blaming his white supremacy on people reacting to him being a murderous psycho. So no, I don’t really think I need to take your opinions into account on any particular subject
Ok buddy. Again, the link is right there for anyone watching.
It sure is!
I think you lack comprehension and want to be contrary so manage to say things then immediately contradict yourself.1) The article – bot the AV article and the original article state that the actress believed that the character was queer.2) There is no textual evidence in the books or show that back that assertion up. It’s totally fine for someone to think that about a character, but it is not their textually. 3) The assertion by the originator of this thread that it proves an issue with the show runners also doesn’t hold weight because again, textually, it wasn’t there and the actress never spoke to them about it. I was replying to your comment where you stated that the character was hinted at or said to be gay and was telling you that the character was never hinted at or said to be gay. Textually that evidence wasn’t there. You then went in a loop of saying “that’s what the article was about.” But it was not – The actress had an opinion that was never shown on screen and was in fact shown to be quite the opposite (openly attracted to only men). So no, the character was never said to be or hinted to be gay. This article does not say that.
This is way overcomplicating it. This article is about people discussing the possibility of a character being gay or not. Nobody said anything about the showrunners or the books. The headline literally is “Maisie Williams was “surprised” by that Game Of Thrones sex scene–because she thought Arya was queer”. Ergo, this is an article about the possibility of a character being gay. Very simple.
It is not an article about the possibility of a character being gay. It’s an article about a person who is not the creator of the content having an opinion that the character was queer (not even gay since most of us don’t use that word interchangeably). Your comment that a character was hinted at or suggested to be gay is both factually incorrect and not based on the article because again no character was actually suggested to be gay. But your explanation shows that it is in fact your comprehension.
Lol those are a lot of words to describe a distinction without a difference
Maisie Williams’ mistaken presumption that Arya was gay. But you responded to a comment regarding her perceived asexuality, so I assumed you were responding to that instead. What exactly are you saying?
That I’m tired of whenever a conversation starts about whether a character might be gay or not, somebody has to pop up and say “Well I think they’re asexual”
So you’re upset about someone else’s “headcanon” not jibing with your own? She’s not gay or asexual canonically, so why does your made-up stuff need defended from another’s? You’re so weird, recog.
Okay, no. You’re gonna have to provide some receipts for that. That is the most ludicrously specific thing to be “tired of”.Boy, I am tired of every time a cow runs the Boston Marathon it gets fat shamed.
If you haven’t seen it happen then I don’t know
I haven’t seen Queen Mary give birth to a flock of seagulls but I’m not gonna go around claiming that I’m “tired of” it, either! FFS, “tired of” implies that it happens ALL THE TIME. And that reeks of nonsense. AND it is entirely possible for someone to do a search of these sites using a keyword. So DO IT. If you have ANY kind of proof that it is just so tiresomely frequent for people to react to questions of character sexuality with “they must be asexual”, provide it. Otherwise, take this tempest out of the teapot and put it back into the Collected Works of Shakespeare.
What search are you talking about? For one thing it’s not possible to search comments on Kinja in any way I’m aware of. Secondly why are you assuming that this is limited to only this site, or that just because you haven’t seen it means it doesn’t happen all the time? And you’re the one apparently getting really mad over this with all the caps lock and whatnot.
“Secondly why are you assuming that this is limited to only this site, or that just because you haven’t seen it means it doesn’t happen all the time?”
Because if you’re commenting on this site about stuff that happens elsewhere, you’re a fucking idiot.
This is proof that you witness way, way too many of these conversations, particularly as a straight man.
I’m totally lost as to what this is supposed to mean
I know, recognitions. I know.
I mean if you’re implying it’s somehow bad for straight people to consume gay media or read discussions about it than that’s kind of weird
Well, you’ve convinced me!
I know what it’s about, but that’s because I r-e-a-d it.
It’s about Maisie Williams thinking Arya was gay, not a-n-y-t-h-i-n-g to do with the t-e-x-t implying anything of the sort.
Except textually it was neither said nor hinted. Maisie said it in an interview after the show has been over for a while now.
It was literally said in this article
No. It was said that Maisie THOUGHT Arya was gay. Nobody stated it as fact. And there was no discussion of “hinted at”.You got huffy at Yellowfoot for no reason.
Again, are you not clear on what this article was about
Are you?
“recognitions got huffy at [X] for no reason” might be the single most common occurrence on this site.
Did you READ the article?
Do what, assume that they’re ace?
I had totally deleted this from memory because it was severely uncomfortable watching a sex scene feature what I had until then thought was a 15-16 year old.EDIT: Also the final season was in 2019? Feels like I’ve been pissed off about it for at least 5 years
I was just reminded of this recently, because I finally finished off the last bunch of episodes of Wyatt Cenac’s Problem Areas which had been sitting on my DVR since they aired in June of ‘19. HBO was promoting a documentary about the making of the final season of GoT, full of the swagger of producers who don’t know they’ve blown it yet. Quite the time capsule.
Jesus H. They didn’t “blow it”. So tired of this narrative. The season was undeniably rushed but far from bad. And until someone does a massive study of the fandom there’s no proof that it was as hated as its haters claim.GoT and Lost finale whiners can go take a hike.
lol no need to get fussy. A lot of people thought it was weak as fuck. NBD. It’s just TV.
“weak as fuck”“don’t be fussy”Really?
You aren’t good with comprehension? I don’t understand the problem.
You want *me* to not be “fussy” while saying “weak as fuck”.How’s YOUR comprehension?
You’re being fussy about people not liking the last season of Game of Thrones. The last season was weak as fuck. They blew it. There. It’s aaaaall spelled out for you. You have some blind spots I think lol
I didn’t need your opinion spelled out for me, thanks. I got that very articulate response. What I objected to was the claim that I’m fussy, meanwhile here YOU are using the term “weak as fuck”. Which seems way more “fussy” than what I said. But maybe we just don’t agree on what “fussy” means.Can we agree on what “Fuck off” means? As long as you’re dropping the f bomb?
Nah they blew it and pretty much everyone agrees
Did the vocal internet minority someone become a majority in the last six seconds?
Yeah, you can’t really “blow it” when the source material is a) bad and b) partially non-existent, and even having the author around wasn’t a help because he also had no idea what was going on.
Yes, there was no evidence of this ever happening, the people who are endlessly whining about this don’t even exist and also fuck them. Fuck people who aren’t real that are made up by the Illuminati or whatever.No evidence whatsoever. Why, I bet you couldn’t even find a single person who disliked the show at any point. And if you do, remember, they’re not real.
Yes, those are definitely reliable sources that represent all of fandom.
You’re free to make an account and leave your own rating, apologist. Won’t move the needle, but your contrarian dissent will be noted. Also, feel free to post anything, anything at all, that more accurately illustrates “all of fandom” more than a 30% average of nearly 15,000 ratings.
Wait, there are 15,000 ratings, and 70% didn’t like it??Well, I guess you’re right, it was terrible, based on the negative reviews of 0.87% of the people who watched the 8th season.
Who could POSSIBLY argue with 10,500 out of 11,990,000????
It’s the same pool of people rating each season. All of the preceding seasons bar 7 were scored at above 90% by the critics and audience.Season 6 on RT was 94% critics and 93% audience and Season 7 was 93% critics and 82% audience. The dropoff was real even if the quantification was not 100% price. Plus sampling is a thing, you’re never going to hear from 100% of fandom for anything.
You see, the problem with Season 8’s RT score is that they have too many critics. Clearly a dozen reviews is the magic cut-off for accuracy!/s
Ah yes, “mixed or average” means “blew it”.
No, Ajax is right. The producers of GoT blew it. Blew it hard. Bran? Swing and a miss.The show has all but disappeared from the collective consciousness and that happened almost immediately because of the let down. There is no buzz for the prequel either. But YOU, yes you, are right about Lost whiners. They can, indeed take a hike.
Of all the complaints you want to mention Bran in particular???Okay, man. (shrug)
Bran, who spends the entire series going on a perilous journey and learning mystical powers and then, in the final season, finally makes it back home to Winterfell, where he…just kind of sits around while everyone else moves the plot forward? And then he becomes king because something something storytellers? Yes, that’s a narratively rewarding and sensical character arc.
Bran, named after Bran the Builder. And what does Westeros need after the White Walkers and the civil war? To be rebuilt.Bran, whose mystical powers include the ability to mentally visit and learn from the past. What is one of the major problems the rulers prior to him have had? They ignored history.Bran, whose status as a major shamanistic force of an old religion stands out at a time when the worship of the Seven is coming undone and the worship of a new monotheistic deity whose proponents seem to possess magic powers is coming to the fore. AND there is a new Queen of the North, where many still hold to that old religion.Bran, whose dreams of heroism were cut short by his paralysis. So he dreamed anew of hiding in the minds of animals. But that dream was also cut short by the responsibilities of the One-Eyed Raven. So he dreamed anew of hiding in the trees, of hiding in the past, of HIDING from himself and the world. But that dream was also cut short by the ultimate responsibility of stewardship of Westeros. THAT is his journey. A boy who would be a hero, who would be a wolf, who would be the forest, who must be king.Bran, who never wanted to be king, is now king. Bran, whose desire for power died with the use of his legs and the acceptance of his mystical nature, is now in power.A bunch of characters who we all liked but who would have likely been disastrous as ruler are on the small council.Bran on the throne makes so much more sense than just about ANY other character.
Lol, calm down, Tyrion. (Though I will say your speech is more convincing than D&D’s lame attempt at being meta and relating kingship to the writing process our whatever bullshit.)There’s a difference between what makes sense on paper and what’s actually conveyed on the screen—and in fact that’s what everyone’s issue with the final season is. What we saw on the screen was a weird kid not really reacting to anything or doing anything of consequence and then oh wait he’s randomly king now. It makes sense for Daenerys to eventually go mad with power, raze King’s Landing to the ground, and die tragically. What we saw on screen was 7 3/4ths seasons of someone who’s unambiguously portrayed as a morally righteous heroine gradually building up her power and fighting for her throne and oh wait she murdered everyone and now she’s dead. It’s not the plan, it’s the execution.
“There’s a difference between what makes sense on paper and what’s actually conveyed on the screen—and in fact that’s what everyone’s issue with the final season is.”This exactly.Bran’s story was presented as a square peg, and the conflict over the throne was presented as a round hole. The show didn’t do even one single thing to tie Bran’s arc to the King’s Landing/Iron Throne plot. He just all of a sudden goes down south and is made king because of some utter nonsense about stories. That’s what was on the screen. Any justification for that is necessarily fan fiction, because the show itself doesn’t do anything to justify it.
Yep. What’s more, Bran’s fate is one of the few instances where we can’t even fall back on the excuse that the book’s author left the show’s producers high and dry, because if there’s one thing Benioff & Weiss must’ve gotten out of GRRM, it’s who was going to end up ruling the Seven Kingdoms. So, forewarned that Bran was going to end up being central to their endgame, the producers chose to . . . shunt him off screen for an entire season, and then turn the previous soulful character into an exposition robot. Why on earth would they do that?
I’m hesitant to assume that anything that happens in the later seasons was direct from GRRM, except Jon Snow’s heritage. I also won’t assume that it’s not. And since GRRM is never going to publish another volume, we’ll never know.
You don’t even realize that your square pegs and round holes come from pre-packaged sets called the Hollywood narrative that has next to nothing to do with reality. The fact you can’t even the acknowledge the importance of stories unambigoulsy demonstrates that this show is not for you. For season upon season, we’ve have almost everyone under the sun take a stab at ruling and f*** up one way or the other due to lack of wisdom: Ned unwisely told Cersei he knew of her affair, Cersei unwisely pissed off Dany, Catelyn unwisely let Jaime free, Rob unwisely broke his oath, Joffrey unwisely acted like a little tyrant, Tywin unwisely went after his son, Tyrion unwisely made fun of people and it nearly got him killed… the list goes on and on. And here you have the gall to dismiss this as ‘some utter nonsense about stories’ when knowing not to make the kinds of mistakes previous rulers made is perhaps the most important aspect of ruling!
Dude, take a breath, step back, and look at how ridiculous you are being. Watch the show, and pay attention to the actual things that are said and depicted on the actual screen.
The Dany plot twist in the penultimate episode particularly bothered me because of how easily they could have gotten there with a slight change (which would have also fixed a different plot problem).In the show, for seemingly no particular reason, after Kings Landing sounds the surrender bells she decides to torch everything. Don’t get me wrong, she had plenty of reason to hate the Targaryens, but even before the battle of for Kings Landing started, she still wanted to take the city without destroying it…and then after they surrender, she burns it.What I would have done: instead of killing Rhaegal one or two episodes earlier with a shot from a phantom ship which apparently came out of no where, despite the dragons (with Dany) flying high with clear visibility, have him shot and killed by one of the dragon killing weapons protecting Kings Landing. Make it so the weapons were hidden on roof tops around the city so that after Rhaegal was shot, she snapped and started burning the city and continued to burn it despite the surrender bells ringing.This would also make her crazy turn a bit more ambiguous and make Jon’s decision to assassinate her in the next episode a bit greyer.
‘There’s a difference between what makes sense on paper and what’s actually conveyed on the screen—and in fact that’s what everyone’s issue with the final season is.’
Everyone’s issue is that GOT skillfully made millions of people worship a merciless tyrant just by dressing her in ‘good guy’ tropes and giving her a superficial cause she never actually invested any energy in actually fulfilling. GOT conveyed everything just fine. They simply let people’s biases take over. The first time Stannis Baratheon is shown he is literally burning people alive due to not following a foreign cult. The first innocent person Dany saves is accused with no evidence that she harmed her baby on purpose and is burned alive (Who warned Dany about blood magic? Who warned Dany not to go into the tent? OTOH, who led her into the tent?). Yet both ‘Khaleeeeeseee’ and ‘Stannis the Mannis’ had hordes of fans.
You don’t think Dany’s tyranny was conveyed on screen? She literally burned an innocent man alive and fed him to her dragons. She said nice and kind things like ‘They can live in my new world or die in the old world.’ She wanted to ‘break the wheel’ by having every single person be conquered by her. She had to be constantly restrained from burning cities to the ground. If it weren’t for Tyrion all her ‘liberated slaves’ would have been dead at the end of S6. She was never portrayed as a ‘morally righteous heroine.’ She was always portrayed as a power-hungry narcissistic psychopath since Season 1.
We live in a world rife with propaganda, where the moral answers are easy, our side is good and the other side is bad. Game of Thrones was a story that tried to counter this. But most people simply didn’t like this message.
“You don’t think Dany’s tyranny was conveyed on screen?”I literally have never said that, and have in fact said the opposite on many occasions, going back to when the episodes were airing.It sounds like you’re bringing in your own biases to this conversation. I’m sorry that I and others didn’t like the last two seasons of the show as much as you apparently did. Really, I am. I wanted to like them, and I still do want to like them, because the backlash to them was ridiculous and overblown. But wanting the seasons to be well-paced, with logical plots and character progressions doesn’t make it so. It wasn’t all bad, but the Bran-on-the-throne bit was jaw-droppingly stupid and out of nowhere.
And if the show had actually built up any of that, prepared the way for it at all in any fashion whatsoever, it wouldn’t have been so jarring to so many people.“Bran, named after Bran the Builder. And what does Westeros need after the White Walkers and the civil war? To be rebuilt.”Does the show even mention Bran the Builder? Maybe one or two lines? Does it ever make anything of the fact that Bran is named after Bran the Builder? Do they even remotely allude to that when they choose him as king?“Bran, whose mystical powers include the ability to mentally visit and learn from the past. What is one of the major problems the rulers prior to him have had? They ignored history.”You can hurt yourself stretching that far. The show had many, many scenes that compared and contrasted the various rulers, and where the positive/negative traits of rulers is discussed explicitly. “[The bad rulers] ignored history” is not the logical conclusion to the eight-season-long rumination on power.“Bran, whose status as a major shamanistic force of an old religion stands out at a time when the worship of the Seven is coming undone and the worship of a new monotheistic deity whose proponents seem to possess magic powers is coming to the fore. AND there is a new Queen of the North, where many still hold to that old religion.”This doesn’t make sense. Bran is (probably) a representative for the Old Gods, but that’s never really discussed on the show. At no point is Bran’s status/power ever linked, directly or indirectly, to any of the many discussions of religion on the show. If this has anything to do with religion, the show doesn’t set it up, allude to it, or otherwise point in that direction in any way whatsoever.“Bran, whose dreams of heroism were cut short by his paralysis. So he dreamed anew of hiding in the minds of animals. But that dream was also cut short by the responsibilities of the One-Eyed Raven. So he dreamed anew of hiding in the trees, of hiding in the past, of HIDING from himself and the world. But that dream was also cut short by the ultimate responsibility of stewardship of Westeros. THAT is his journey. A boy who would be a hero, who would be a wolf, who would be the forest, who must be king.”That is not a bad reading of the character’s arc, but as with the points above, the show doesn’t in any way lead the viewer to that conclusion. At no point is any of this about Bran “taking responsibility of stewardship”. He’s not really even Bran at that point anymore, so if that was the intention then the show should have at least had Bran in there somewhere to take that final step of responsibility. But it didn’t.“Bran, who never wanted to be king, is now king. Bran, whose desire for power died with the use of his legs and the acceptance of his mystical nature, is now in power.”Again, it’s not even really Bran anymore, so I’m not sure that tracks with how the show actually played out. Also, where did you get “never wanted to be king”? I don’t recall anything like that coming up at any point.“A bunch of characters who we all liked but who would have likely been disastrous as ruler are on the small council.”Yeah, that’s true I guess.“Bran on the throne makes so much more sense than just about ANY other character.”True, as long as you forget that Jon and Tyrion exist.ETA: Also as long as you forget that Sansa exists.
‘And if the show had actually built up any of that, prepared the way for it at all in any fashion whatsoever, it wouldn’t have been so jarring to so many people.’
It was built up. You just weren’t paying attention because you were looking at the superficial stuff rather than the overall themes of the show. Anyone with half a brain could have realized that the main theme of GOT was the nature of power and what makes a good ruler. Tywin talks about it to Tommen, Tyrion tries to give Joffrey a history book, we are repeatedly shown examples of a lack of wisdom landing characters in hot water. And who is the living embodiment of wisdom on this show? Bran.
In all stories, thehero does some grand quest, defeats the baddie and becomes king. Bran on the other hand keeps a low profile knowing how dangerous Dany was. This is why Claudius was able to survive Caligula’s purges and ultimately become the next emperor. Game of Thrones REDEFINES the story of how one become’s king, translating it from a physical quest to a mental quest.
“And who is the living embodiment of wisdom on this show? Bran.”No, he’s literally not. Where in the world did you get that from? And that’s not the reason the show gives. You’re reaching, and adding things that aren’t actually in the show into the show because you can’t accept that the way they ended the show was objectively bad.
I think a better explanation for Bran being elected was that he was seen as a weak and harmless king who probably couldn’t have children. A way to put a halt to the civil war for a generation while Westeros rebuilt and the major families jousted for who would take over after Bran. Most of them wouldn’t really know or believe in his powers, he was just the surviving son of the Stark family.
Not to mention that his incredible mystic power was “remembering the past.” Hell, I can remember some of the past, and I never trained with a mystic tree thing.
I trained with a mystic tree thing for 7 years and now I have $300,000 in student loan debt and no job!
I love how the final season literally happens *around* Bran while he just fucking sits there. Like wtf do you exist for? They’re like hey you just chill out and we’ll make the plan and we’ll kill the white walkers and fix everything. Do you have any input? Bran: Nah. Everyone else: Okay cool, also you’re king now. He was entirely pointless.
Yeah, I guess the smartest thing for Bran to do would have been to show his cards while a tyrannical dragon lady was still around who definitely would have enjoyed to hear that yet another Stark was gunning for the Iron Throne. /s
Whatever. He could have told Jon or Sansa or Tyrion. He didn’t have to announce it to her specifically. And even if he didn’t want to give up the fact that Dany would be killed and all that he could have offered some help with killing the white walkers.
“Like wtf do you exist for?”
Yeah, how come the paralyzed person didn’t run or, hell, at least walk???
The whole series was about the Throne. Who would end up there? Who would win the Game …. of … Thrones??? Nobody won. Bran wasn’t even in the ‘fight’ and was just handed the Throne. He didn’t even want the damn thing. So yeah, I’ll focus on that.
‘Bran wasn’t even in the ‘fight’ and was just handed the Throne. He didn’t even want the damn thing. So yeah, I’ll focus on that.’
That’s because for 8 seasons until the very end, the Throne was treated as a PRIZE, something you DESERVE, whether by conquest, or heritage or simply for being an awesome person who wants to save the world! And the audience projected themselves in their ‘favorite character’ and invested heavily in who would sit on the Throne as if GOT was some third rate fan fiction. But in the final episode the Throne was burned down! The age of absolutist power passed down by primogeniture was over! The nature of the Throne was revealed: it is not a PRIZE, but a DUTY! And more important than the Throne itself is the Small Council which starts having the trappings of a proper government, filled with either ambitious commoners or outcasts with unique but unappreciated talents. This would be the force which pushes Westeros forward.
“So yeah, I’ll focus on that.”
Yeah, you SHOULD focus on the stuff you don’t get, because once you DO get it, you’ll be less pissy about a TV show.
Bran is a swing and a miss? Yeah, I guess we live in an era where quiet and understated wisdom is looked down upon. I can assure you there will come a time when GOT is far more appreciated than in this era of insta-fulfillment.
“The show has all but disappeared from the collective consciousness”
What are you talking about?
In hindsight it’s astonishing how it went from being a sudden cultural juggernaut to being… not even totally abandoned, but to the point even when somebody DOES make any reference to it it elicits groans and embarrassment…
Counterpoint: nah, it was bad.
Counter counterpoint: nah, it was fine.
Lol yeah. The fact that people can say they feel like they’ve been mad at the show for 5 years with zero self-awareness is deeply embarrassing.
So by “narrative” are you suggesting everyone I’ve talked to was lying about disliking it?
I’m sorry, I’d forgotten that the people you talk to is “everyone”.
I agree. I didn’t like how some things ended/were resolved but I didn’t end up hating the entire series. It was entertaining, well-made and had many compelling characters and scenes. It was must-see TV for the 21st century, and defined what prestige TV is nowadays. Also, it made many unknown actors famous worldwide. Those haters should name one show that has ONLY perfect excellent episodes.
But the criticism isn’t ‘some of the episodes weren’t the best’, it’s ‘I invested hours and hours into this product, and it treated the end as an afterthought.’
I get that, and sure, the two producers of the show deserve the blame.
It just became notably sloppy in the last season (arguably last 2 seasons). For a show that started off seeming so very diligent about its characters are setting and almost ponderously paced, seeing all that wrapped up in an abridged 8 episodes that rushed by so quickly they didn’t even end up making much sense was a pretty big letdown.
Looking back, it was odd that HBO didn’t get other showrunners to continue to show and do ten full seasons. There’s no reason why the departure of the original producers would also mean the end of the project.
“it was odd that HBO didn’t get other showrunners to continue to show and do ten full seasons.”
Was it odd or is it exactly what HBO always does?
Oh, so it’s better that the response was even MORE unreasonable?
I think you’re thinking of The Wire
Well, I think HBO likes to think of The Wire and The Sopranos as the original prestige TV shows to grace our small screens. I enjoyed both of those as well.
So tired of this narrative. The season was undeniably rushed but far from bad.I guess we will agree to disagree. The the season was undeniably rushed AND total shit. I don’t care if the major beats came from GRRM or not. It was shit either way.
And the Lost Finale was total shit too. Years of mystery box stuff where in the end most of it was ignored and they just ended it with a bunch of stuff because they really had no plan of where to go. Many characters veer off and have arcs that made no sense. The whole thing started amazing and ended as a mess. To be fair, it is not that uncommon.
I 1. also love the final season of GoT, even if I admit it has its flaws (mostly being rushed), and 2. still think Lost’s finale was actually perfect.
You’re right in that it wasn’t bad if viewed in isolation, but it shifted massively in tone and pacing from the previous seasons. This was mostly down to the author not having the end of the series written. Martin is famous for this sort of thing to the point the HBO execs had him provide an ending summary in advance in case something like that happened. So it went from having an intricate plot with lots of political intrigue driven by morally ambiguous characters to a special effects spectacle. Neither is bad, but the result of the change was the thing most fans expected and what drew them into the show went away.This is arguably bad in the sense of it makes for a bad experience and is poor storytelling. At the very least, it was jarring. Make of it what you will.
I mean, I agree for the most part but I think the last few episodes of the season were… subpar. Battle of Winterfell was, on the whole, pretty great, but I’m still pissed at the way they undid seasons of character development with some people (like Jaime). And as for Lost whiners… I freaking loved the finale. I still don’t understand why people were so mad about it.
There are arguments to be made about mistakes, and I’m open to many. It’s generally the hands-up dismissive “it was all shit” variety of response that I just can’t take, and that’s an AWFUL LOT of responses.The thing with a lot of those character notes for me is that none of them feel totally out of place. Like… yeah, Jaime did *appear* to be making headway towards some kind of redemption. But he also demonstrated, over and over throughout the series, that he had a huge fatalistic streak. And whatever else might be said about him, he genuinely did love Cersei. I don’t think it undoes his character development to have ended the way he did. I think that was his tragic destiny. I think a LOT of people’s disappointment with character direction is wrapped up in ignoring the tragic elements of their characters and only focusing on what made them fun to watch. Like I bet people would be more upset by the end of The Hound if it weren’t for the fact that his “fun” characterization was utter, brutal hatred for his brother. So him ending by essentially giving the ECW Rhino GORE! GORE! GORE! to the Mountain satisfied everyone’s fun.As for Lost, I think it really depended on what you watched the show for. A lot of people watched for the Maguffins and were put off by not having every single one of them addressed. But those people must not have been watching the same show as I watched, because that show was about the characters. Whatever other genre trappings might have gone on, from the opening moments of Jack wandering around in a daze and bursting out onto the beach disaster the show was about characters. I can’t blame people for liking what they like, but to get mad because the show was consistent in ending how it began is silly.
Glad to hear somebody saying this. Just because the showrunners phoned it in at the end doesn’t mean it was a total waste. They hit a lot of the notes that needed to be hit, regardless of whether it was lazy or accidental.
The making of doc is justtwo hours of people complaining that the showrunners have no idea what they’re doing. Definitely worth the watch.
It’s been a long 3 years…
The character is still 11 in the books, but her most recently released sample chapter still had her seducing Raff the Sweetling in order to kill him. I believe GRRM has admitted that he should have started the characters older if he’d realized how little time would lapse over the course of the books.
So you felt the same way about Dany all along right? Since she’s only supposed to be 16 when Drogo rapes her? To say nothing of the fact that she’s 13 in the books…Everyone seemed a-okay with the characters being alluded to being underage until it was this particular one.
I haven’t read the books and I don’t recall them saying she was 16 so all I saw was a 28 year old Emilia Clark as opposed to Maisie Williams who was 14 IRL when the series started and seemingly only 1-2 years had passed in the show. So yeah it was weirder.
The GoT universe exists in a bizarre time warp in which it takes three days to travel thousands of miles but people age several years in a matter of months.
Arya was a somewhat confusing character, part of what made her interesting, especially as played by the funny but also soulful Maisie Williams
I think there’s a lot to be said about her circumstances as well. We meet her as a tom-boy who likes swords and riding and fighting, but we’re told Lyanna was the same way then learned to navigate womanhood. Arya might well have done the same thing, but had to do what she did because Ned was killed especially in the show where she comes far less close to rescue.
I still think they should make a Doctor Who spinoff with her & Jenna Coleman’s characters having sexy adventures
TRIGGER WARNING:
Boner trigger!
Roy Rogers really loved that horse.
We all did.
Writers David Benioff and Dan Weiss had given their actors fake-out scripts before.I know they’re not alone in doing that, but honestly that sounds exhausting.
It was reported that the actor playing Bran did say that he thought the script that put him in charge was a fake out script but reverse psych I guess?
I think we all know that the Stark who should have been queer is Sansa. She should have ended up with Brienne because that would have been the perfect combination of her finding a noble person who was actually good to her and Brienne falling in love with a leader who was worthy. Instead, Brienne is pining after her dead, incest loving, child attempted murdering, dumbass one night stand and Sansa is freezing her but off in the north.
Also, Sansa should have been Queen. And the white walkers harder to kill. And there should have been one giant seen walking in the distance at the end. And 100 other things.
She is queen. Of the North.The White Walkers were hard to kill. Early on. But then they weren’t because of dragonglass (narrative) and episode running times (logistical). When your actors are all itching to leave and your network is eager to get your budgets off its books and you’ve long since surpassed the source material, shit gets rushed. Some people are so eager to gnash their teeth at that season and the showrunners they ignore every OTHER reason the ending got rushed. And let’s get real: NO ending was gonna satisfy these complainers.
Where has it been said before that the network wanted the show to end? If anything they wanted it to run longer, but it was the showrunners that wanted to go, but not be replaced by anyone.
HBO wanted more episodes, which makes sense, as GoT was their main cash cow. The decision to end the show when it did was entirely Benioff and Weiss’s. Per Entertainment Weekly:You told me back when filming season 3 that you were thinking of doing the final season as three movies because you couldn’t imagine pulling off what you and George had in mind on a television budget. Do you feel like you’ve been able to do what you envisioned years ago?WEISS: Yes. To their credit, they put their money where their mouths are — literally stuffed their mouth full of million-dollar bills which don’t exist anymore. They said, “We’ll give you the resources to make this what it needs to be, and if what it needs to be is a summer tentpole-size spectacle in places, then that’s what it will be.”BENIOFF: HBO would have been happy for the show to keep going, to have more episodes in the final season. We always believed it was about 73 hours, and it will be roughly that. As much as they wanted more, they understood that this is where the story ends.
Fair.Now address the actors being tired of it and passing the source material.Or don’t. I was fine with the last season and am just tired of complaints.
Can you please cite your sources for every actor who said this?
I don’t think they even needed more seasons. If the last two seasons hadn’t been truncated they would have had seven more episodes to tell the story in a way that flowed much more smoothly and logically.
Where are you getting that all the actors were wanting to leave? If anything, I both remember and keep finding things now saying the exact opposite about wanting to keep going.
I can acknowledge that there may have been logistical issues that hindered the season (though I’m not sure you’re fully correct about that) while still feeling that I never want to watch it again. And what about the seasons before that? Critics have been grumbling about the show prioritizing the Big Shocking Moment over the thematically coherent narrative since season 4.
I don’t hate this idea BUT it kinda betrays one of Brienne’s more interesting tragic character flaws, which is falling in knightly love with unavailable men. Would a shift into bi or pan or homosexuality be a happier ending for her? I don’t know. Maybe? But Brienne being who she is would probably fall for Sansa only to discover that Sansa is too deeply scarred by her experience with Ramsay to return romantic feelings.
Personally, I thought it worked great to show a girl/woman can not conform to gender stereotypes without it automatically meaning she’s gay (see also, Brienne).
Asha in the show was an example of the writers assuming the opposite, as she’s straight in the books.
Fucking exactly. Ignoring the fact that she was obviously attracted to Gendry in the earlier seasons… what would make someone think she was into girls? That she was a tomboy and liked to fight with swords? Huh?
Interest bias. Similar to how Brienne wanted nothing to do with Tormund but the fandom assumed that her disgust toward his advances was her playing hard to get and she “deserved” a man like him.Arya was mildly flattered that a boy seemed very much to be crushing on her hard, but according to Williams this was mere flattery.
every straight person’s favorite response when a show “no homo”s a queer coded character.My fucking cup runneth over with examples of “gender non-conforming character who turns out to be straight.” You listed another example *in the same damn show.*Like how every BioWare game has a hot butch lady who turns out to be straight because of Diversity. It will literally never be meaningful to have a character turn out to be straight in a world where we expect *everyone* to turn out to be straight.
I agree. The fact Arya isn’t super femme doesn’t imply anything of her sexual preferences, but the fact she was clearly into Gendry in S2 does. (Also, she could still be queer! Nobody said she *exclusively* likes men.)I also found it pretty weird how infantilizing the conversation became over Maisie Williams as an actor, as if it’s some great crime that a 20-year-old possesses sexual agency or portrays it on screen. Given the show’s track record of depicting rape and sexual assault, it was kind of refreshing that Arya clearly wanted sex and had power over the interaction.
I think it’s a rather understandable reaction. You follow this character from the age of 12, watching her grow up, you perceive her as any adult would a child. The actress is a rather small individual, so it’s easy to fall into the adult perspective of children never aging, so to suddenly see a 12 year old pull off her clothes and get down and dirty… There’s a reason why the age of the actress was a trending Google search that evening.
Agreed. Declaring that she MUST be queer because she confirms to queer gender stereotypes, well, that’s just the same gender stereotyping that they claim to oppose, just from the other side. Not all tomboys must be queer, not all pretty princesses must be straight, and so on. Some princesses like rock climbing, target shooting, and girls.
Sometimes we really seem to be going back to the 19th century on sexuality – back when they though any deviation from established gender norms was proof of “sexual inversion” (i.e. being psychologically the opposite sex from their body). We spent the whole 20th century gradually breaking up that concept – splitting out transgenderism, homosexuality, transvestitism, feminism, and just plain diversity and variety and personal choice, generations of activists repeating again and again that just because they were one thing that didn’t mean they were all the other things.
…but now whenever a woman on TV has a short hair cut or spends time outdoors or doesn’t have a boyfriend, there’s a chorus insisting that this means she’s gay, or a man, or possibly a gay man, and that refusing to accept this is homophobic or transphobic. [and the chorus is even louder when it’s an even mildly-nonconformist man]. Because how could she be one thing but not all the others? They don’t actually use the term “inversion” anymore, but it feels very similar in practice…Being a tomboy doesn’t inherently mean you’re gay. [or that you’re a boy, for that matter]. Assuming it does might produce more gay ‘representation’, but it’s ultimately harmful for gay people (and, of course, for mildly-nonconformist gay people) by helping to reconstruct that box of preconceptions that generations of activists fought so hard to dismantle.To be clear, I’ve no problem with any individual seeing Arya and assuming, or hoping, she was gay. It’s totally understandable that a gay woman who sees some of herself in Arya might want to see Arya as a kindred spirit in other ways too, and the text hardly rules this out (she could be bisexual, or simply young and confused (she’s not exactly had a great deal of opportunity to explore her sexuality in a safe and accepting environment), or she could just be horny and afraid and see Gendry as safe and available). It’s more the way that such large numbers of people seem to automatically make these assumptions and be baffled – or sometimes even outraged – by the suggestion that one thing is not automatically the other…[which I guess is just a longer and rantier way of saying what you said, but never mind…]
Arya being queer doesn’t necessarily mean she wouldn’t be attracted to men. Bisexuality exists.
You do know this is a fictional character on a friggin TV show don’t you?
Interesting conversation. Who knows a character better? The writers or the actor that plays that character for a decade?
OR the guy who has spent decades writing the books and who wrote in specific female-to-male attraction from Arya to Gendry and also wrote in specific male-to-female attraction from Gendry to Arya.
She may be queer, she make love the puss as well as the D, but according to ALL of the text, she is sexually attracted to dudes.
So, when it comes down to it, the guys who wrote the show based on the books and notes of the guy who has written all the books (and wrote on the show), know better.
So she thought the charecter was queer because they were a tom-boy? Sounds sterotypical. I never really thought about it because the charecter wasn’t sexual at all untill that point, that was the weird part for me.
Maisie’s a dumbass. Nothing in the books or the show even slightly hinted Arya might be lesbian. Or bisexual.
You know, Arya can be bisexual. Or pansexual.
Why exactly did she think that? Was it because everyone, simply everyone, MUST be queer in order for the world to make any sort of sense? Jesus Christ. The natural response to everything is not, should not and never will be — queer is the norm for everyone. You’re in a fucking minority, not the majority. The entire world is not queer and believing that doesn’t make it real. It makes you delusional.
She still could be.
Maybe people should finally stop assuming that a gender-stereotype non-conforming women are gay/ace/non-binary by default. Years of women fighting against stereotypes just for everyone nowadays to return to 1950s ideas – a straight girl wears a skirt and likes dollies, a straight boy wears trousers and likes cars, and everyone who doesn’t fit is queer.
Weiss & Benioff clearly didn’t have the best grasp on the chacaters or plot when lef alone with them with Martin’s books… but she can still be queer AND have sex with men.
There are lesbian Arya truthers? What a sad existence.
Yeh it’s like LGBTQ brigade are pissing on lamp posts now trying to claim characters for their brigade.
Something sad about letting sexuality define you.
Asexuality is an ascribed gender. I had Arya down as one of those.
Just maybe to some people such major things happen in their live that sex becomes a distraction or even something they don’t think about.
These people need a thought too.
An shock horror some people actually don’t like sexy that much.
Hard as it is to imagine in a world polluted/saturated with porn and dating apps.
I think assuming a character is gay just because they don’t fit into well-defined gender rolls is playing into its own kind of stereotype. However, I still think people can imagine Arya’s sexuality any way they want, since she was obviously giving Gendry pity sex.
I just thought it was like the Airplane movies where the plane is going down and she didn’t want to die a virgin.
No she fucking wasn’t “surprised”, unless she completely forgot about any interaction with Gendry over the course of the show.This is nothing more than conveniently timed virtual signaling statement for Pride month.If she wanted Arya to be queer instead, then just say that.