“No Scrubs” and “Say My Name” go head-to-head in Song Vs. Song, and listeners have the vote
Aux Features Podcasts
Ellas
Diana Cabuto & Christina Igaraividez – Creators of Latinaish TV
Brenda Hernández Jaimes is the founder and host of Ellas podcast, which is devoted to fostering conversations with the inspiring Latinas paving the way for the next generation. Diana Cabuto, soon to be featured in the Netflix series Gentefied, was brought up in a female-centric Mexican household before moving to the United States, where she began developing her identity as a Mexican American actor. Christina Igaraividez is a Chicago native who found her way from advertising to improv and theatre. Together, the two have started Latinaish TV, a new media channel devoted to producing Latinx content and spotlighting a wide variety of Latinx narratives, particularly those of women. It’s inspiring to hear Cabuto talk about her journey to embrace who she is, accent and all, especially in an industry so rife with racism; meanwhile, Igaraividez is candid about her insecurities speaking Spanish and the realities of being second-generation Mexican American. [Jose Nateras]
Family Ghosts
The Ambassador
Family Ghosts is a show about the shared trauma that reverberates through families for generations. Hosted by Moth GrandSlam winner Sam Dingman, the featured stories are always exceptionally well-crafted and rich with meaning. This episode sees writer Maccabee Montandon expand on a 2013 Gawker essay about his murdered brother, except it’s not really about his murdered brother. It’s about why for decades he hasn’t had much of a relationship with his mother. If there was ever anything approaching glue that bound the two together, it dissolved when they buried the one relative they both held close. Now, Maccabee’s mother is approaching the end of her life, and he is quietly agonizing over reconnecting. An older and more reflective Maccabee wants answers to why things turned out the way they did, even if that sparks painful conversation. This is an episode that hollows you out while you listen. [Zach Brooke]
Poetry Unbound
Tracy K. Smith: A Poem For The Space Between Us
Even people who consider themselves culturally literate can sometimes struggle to engage with poetry, an art form that is so sparse on its face and hides its best attributes beneath the surface. Thankfully, there’s a new podcast willing to hold your hand through the process of poetry immersion therapy. Twice a week, Irish poet Pádraig Ó Tuama guides listeners through a reading of a new poem, letting us hear it once before discussing the symbolism, word choice, and structure, and then letting us hear it again with newly informed context. This episode, featuring a poem from former U.S. Poet Laureate Tracy K. Smith’s 2011 collection, Life On Mars, is as good a place to start as any and will have you feeling swept away by the warmth and loving care of her writing. Pretty soon, you’ll be standing around a cocktail party, beret on your head, using words like “cadence” to the dumbstruck awe of all your friends. [Dan Neilan]
Preheated
Italian Pignoli (Pine Nut) Cookies
This sweet small-batch baking show is hosted by long-distance best friends (and bakers) Andrea Ballard and Stefin Kohn, who use their podcast to highlight fun, low-pressure recipes for listeners to try. The bake-alongs for February, the month of love, are themed around Italian treats to share with the folks you adore. Ballard and Kohn discuss their laborious but rewarding journey of baking Italian pignoli; the weird and gross-ish history of candy conversation hearts; and why eating out on Valentine’s Day is overrated. And as they share the origins of tiramisu—an aphrodisiac originally served in brothels—you might be inspired to assemble their 10-minute version of the treat to impress a loved one.. Like a cozier, more low-key America’s Test Kitchen, Preheated is a pleasure for seasoned and novice bakers alike. [Morgan McNaught]
Secret Societies
The Hellfire Club Pt. 1
Parcast’s Secret Societies explores the histories of the shadowy organizations that may or may not be running our lives. In the first of a two-part series, hosts Greg Polcyn and Vanessa Richardson unpack the facts and rumors about the diabolical 18th-century anti-Catholic group known as the Hellfire Club. Though accused of many crimes, the Hellfire Club was ultimately nothing more than a frat house for rich edgelords who wanted to freak out the normies. Several frat houses, in fact: After the original club folded, their brand recognition was so strong that many similar groups took up the mantle. The most successful was led by Frances Dashwood, who loved to troll clergymen by showing off his garden, which was arranged in the shape of a nude woman urinating. Most of the groups showcased on Secret Societies are similarly juvenile and pathetic—and that’s the scariest part. The podcast illustrates again and again that the people in charge of the world love the dumbest shit. [Anthony D Herrera]
Song Vs. Song
“No Scrubs” Vs. “Say My Name”
Which was the better musical tribute to a continent: Toto’s “Africa” or Men At Work’s “Down Under”? If this question has stirred up some very strong feelings within you, then you’re going to need to check out Song Vs. Song. In each episode, hosts Todd Nathanson and Dany Roth pit a pair of thematically similar songs from the same pop era against each other to determine (with the help of listeners) which one reigns supreme. This week sees the battle of two turn-of-the-century anthems about the shittiness of lying, broke-ass men. While there is plenty of debate about each song’s merits (or lack thereof), Nathanson and Roth also take the time to place “No Scrubs” and “Say My Name” in their proper historical context, noting that this period marked the untimely end of TLC and the beginning of a meteoric rise for Destiny’s Child. Other topics of discussion include whether the two hosts are themselves scrubs. [Anthony D Herrera]
The United States Of Anxiety
Two Schools In Marin
History is inescapable: Our nation’s past transgressions will always linger in the background of our present-day struggles. Progress is measured by how well we learn from history and how quickly we pivot away from it, which is stressful work. The United States Of Anxiety, from WNYC, personalizes this struggle by highlighting communities whose plight illustrates some part of the American story. Its story this week centers around two schools in Marin County, California: one a diverse and affluent charter school with several well-funded after-school programs, the other a long-neglected public school in a majority-Black neighborhood directly across the freeway. A state-mandated order to actively desegregate this divided school district stirs up a long history of racism, class conflict, and cultural blind spots that could apply to any number of American communities attempting to outrun their own complicated pasts. [Dan Neilan]
Uncover: Satanic Panic
“It Was Hell”
The satanic panic of the 1980s had people across North America convinced that devil-worshipping cultists were everywhere and would soon be coming for their children, and by 1992, that paranoia would rip apart the small Saskatchewan town of Martensville. CBC’s Uncover: Satanic Panic attempts to make sense of how allegations of sexual abuse at a Martensville daycare center could lead residents to believe they were under attack by Satan himself. In this episode, host Lisa Bryn Rundle travels to Martensville with reporter Dan Zakreski, who covered the case at the time. They visit the infamous “devil’s church” where children were allegedly forced to drink blood and take part in satanic rites. Even though there was no evidence to support these bizarre stories, Zakreski and other members of the media fanned the flames of frenzy by reporting them as fact. Zakreski now regrets his actions but explains, “This was the fight between good and evil, and I was on the side of good.” [Anthony D Herrera]
68 Comments
By the by, Todd, the co-host of “Song vs Song,” is the same Todd as Todd in the Shadows. Both the podcast and YouTube show are pretty great.
I was about to say, they buried the lede there a bit!
Thanks for pointing that out! Now I’m actually interested in listening to this!Seriously, having been burned a few times by podcasts hosted by vapid funny-ish people blissfully ignorant about the material they’re talking about (and usually adding something like “We didn’t take the time to research this!!”), I was ready to write this one off. But I love Todd In The Shadows, so I’m gonna check it out!
Family Ghosts is fantastic. Thoughtful, caring, well-crafted. Not a bad one in the bunch.
‘No Scrubs’ is the better song.
Absolutely. The only reason someone would vote for “Say My Name” is they don’t want to be hunted down by the Beygency.
100%. Also isn’t “Bills, Bills, Bills” a more thematically appropriate DC hit to compare?
It definitely fits the theme better than ‘Say My Name’.
Bills Biils Bills was at least also written by Kandi Burruss and Tiny Cottle. they had songs everywhere for a good couple of summers, so it would’ve been fun to compare two songs they both wrote
That song will forever be amazing for asking us the eternal question: do you pay my automoBills?
“Bills Bills Bills” even has the word “scrub” in it!
Especially when played to the tune of “Stairway to Heaven”
Yup, not even close.
Hmm, In my opinion, a more apt Destiny’s Child song to pit against “No Scrubs” would be “Bills bills bills” (not “Say My Name”)- both No Scrubs and Bills Bills Bills feature the word “scrub”, and to quote this very article: “This week sees the battle of two turn-of-the-century anthems about the shittiness of lying, broke-ass men.” Well, “Say My Name” wasn’t about “broke-ass men”, if I remember correctly. But both No Scrubs and Bills bills bills were – and these broke ass men were called “scrubs”- Also, (not altogether surprising)both No scrubs and Bills bills bills had the same team of writers, specifically lyrics by Kandi Burress from Xscape (who I guess is more famous for being one of the Real Housewives).
Literally clicked through to this story to make a less intricate version of this comment. “Bills, Bills, Bills” is a direct corollary to “No Scrubs” and it’s weird as hell to me that they would have gone with anything else.
Yeah – by those picks those dudes showed they clearly aren’t knowledgeable of that genre of music, but I guess felt the need to diversify their usual offerings of Song vs Song.I mean, both No Scrubs and Bills bills bills even had (triggered) rebuttal/response songs by the same band of dudes. From wiki:Sporty Thievz, the same group that wrote “No Pigeons” as response to TLC’s “No Scrubs”, wrote a response to “Bills, Bills, Bills” entitled “No Billz (Why, Why, Why)So, those podcast guys, if they knew their music, could have lined it up so they even also did a Song vs Song for the response songs too …
So I looked up “No Pigeons”, hoping it would be a worthy rebuttal song
to “No Scrubs”… you know, a song calling out shallow,
materialistic women who judge potential boyfriends according to the size of their bank account. Instead, it’s a rather repulsive rant about unattractive and/or economically-challenged women. Not really a “rebuttal” song at all.
Incidentally, it’s weird to describe the two songs by saying they are “about the shittiness of lying, broke-ass men”. “No Scrubs” is about broke-ass men. “Say My Name” is about liars. Please don’t conflate the two things as though they were two sides of the same coin.
white people gonna white people
I am defended that you refer to these white devils as white people
It seems pretty obvious. &No Scrubs > Bills, Bills, Bills + Say My Name
No Scrubs > Bills, Bills, Bills + Say My NameAhem …
Crack that hive open & eat all the honey, honey
No Scrubs and Bills Bills Bills were actually both written by the same lady, who also had a hand in writing There You Go for Pink. I’m going to go out on a limb and guess she didn’t have the healthiest love life in the late 90s. She’s now a Real Housewife of Atlanta.
No Scrubs and Bills Bills Bills were actually both written by the same ladyYeah, Kandi Burress (I, um, mentioned that in my comment)I personally think she wrote wittier lyrics to Bills bills bills than she did for No Scrubs, especially when describing the shenanigans the scrub in question gets up to. For example:And then you use my cell phoneCallin’ whoever that you think’s at homeAnd then when the bill comesAll of a sudden you be acting dumbDon’t know where none of these calls come fromWhen your momma’s number’s here more than onceThat used to make me chuckle, especially Beyonce’s facial expression in the video when singing that last line.Also,You triflin’, good for nothing type of brotherOh silly me, why haven’t I found another
was a cute refrain
Counterpoint:Any other song Beyoncé’s been involved with couldn’t even pretend to hold a candle to No Scrubs, so no one would pay attention.
Dang that’s a tough one. I think maybe No Scrubs is a slightly better tune and the story/lyrics of Say My Name are slightly better. In my personal ranking they’re pretty much equally great songs.
Left Eye’s rap break alone makes No Scrubs a better song.
where does that rap break exist except in the video?
I gotta go with “No Scrubs” but I’m surprised to find out the songs were released contemporaneously. Because according to the internets they were seven years apart so what is the basis for comparison other than black women singing them?Also, I’d go with “Down Under” instead of “Africa.” It’s more bemused and probative than “Africa” which uses basic chintzy-fabric magical landia imagery. Hey did you know that K2 rises like Everest? And that the Matterhorn rises like my pants?
Isn’t “Down Under” based, or sampled maybe, on a traditional song? I prefer it too, but it kinda changes my view on it in a way.
That’s the claim. I’ve listened to both and I don’t recall hearing a resemblance, but it’s been a few years. A quick google search shows that they had believed the original song was part of the public domain.
“Until this high-profile case, the standing of “Kookaburra” as a traditional song combined with the lack of visible policing of the song’s rights by its composer had led to the general public perception that the song was within the public domain.” I still enjoy it.
According to my close personal friend Wikipedia, the flute part alone was inspired by a 1930s children’s song. 20 years after the song’s credited writer passed away a copyright troll publishing company hounded the band until they gave 5% of the royalties since 2002 and essentially killed off the band’s members with the stress. If the case had gone to trial they might have found even less of the flute-work was covered under copyright, I remember the extra disc of Brazil has a part about how they thought they were going to have to pay for using the song ten thousand times over because the whole score was based on it, but that after analysis by the estate they only had to pay for the parts that were very on-note not nearly any of the elaborations or orchestrations. Not sure if that’s always how it is as most things settle.
9 months apart, not seven years:“No Scrubs” was released February 2, 1999.“Say My Name” was released on November 7, 1999.
what I get for a cursory google, should have looked deeper than the YouTube faceplate, I’d also say motivated reasoning because I wanted to feel like it was released further back
Wow, if you’d asked me a minute ago, I would have said “No Scrubs” was mid 90’s, not 1999.
The Weezer cover reminded me that the tune of “Africa” is very catchy, but the lyrics are rather dumb. “Down Under”’s lyrics are at least amusing.
yeah the more I hear the lyrics to “Down Under” the more fun they are. “Chunder” means throw-up btw.
Both very good songs. However only “No Scrubs” has the lyrical hook “hangin’ out the passenger side / of his best friend’s ride”, which is just a juggernaut couplet and pretty much ensures that song will win any H2H comparison with any contemporaries.
Wow, the futility of the 2 party system, represented by Beyoncé.
Recommending a Parcast podcast because the AV Club hates its readers.
What’s the issue with them? I like the serial killer show they do, but I’m not a huge true crime guy so I may not recognize flaws.
I think the name’s annoying because it sounds like someone saying ‘podcast’ with their mouth full. But I’m not sure that’s what’s on Malingo’s mind here.
Even though I’ve seen pictures of the hosts I struggle to accept that they are not simply computer generated voices.
Molly Brandenburg and Carter Roy are particularly awful and seem to have no idea how to read a sentence.
I used to think the title of “No Scrubs” was “Hanging Out The Passenger Side” because it was the only line I could make out.
https://www.miracle-ear.com/
take your dogwhistle shit elsewhere.
Obviously No Scrubs is the clear winner here..but wither the other No’s of the 90s No Diggity No RainNo Excuses*( *the Alice in Chains song )
I suppose “Don’t Speak” opens the door too wide…
No doubt it does…
Song Vs. Song is really good, and it’s also VERY weird to see Podmass highlight a podcast I already listen to.
RIP Left Eye
also No Pigeons is better than them both!
Nope
I mean, sure, if you’re an idiot.
RIP Andre Rison’s House
I like them both, but the rap version of No Scrubs is superior. It’s the one I will always sing along to in the car in its entirety.
No scrubs in a walk.
Jeez – Beyoncé’s best song (bar none), vs one of the great songs of all time.(That said…obviously No Scrubs takes the cake, here)
I like Destiny’s Child much better overall, but I will relent that “No Scrubs” is a better song than “Say My Name”, even if I don’t see the thematic connection.
Songs about continents are much better than songs performed by continents. Ranked:1) Men At Work, Down Under2) Toto, Africa6) Asia, The Heat of the Moment42) Getting hit by a bus in Antarctica5933) Europe, The Final Countdown
Are songs by the band America 3-5 on your list?
Disqualified by lack of directional notation. Could conceivably be redeemed with a cover of “Panama”; but until then, not ranked.
Africa vs Down Under: I have both on a Billboard 1983 CD.
Are you having a laugh?? “No Scrubs” all the way, every fucking day of the week. Come on now, no one is actually preferring “Say My Name” in this head-to-head, are they?
Speaking of TLC, they should do a TLC “Creep” vs Radiohead “Creep” vs Stone Temple Pilots “Creep” three-way showdown. Though STP has no chance in that matchup.
Battle of the suck.
Say My Name because No Scrubs is trash:
While I LOVE Beyonce, No Scrubs will always be a personal fave. I used the lyrics for my biology class assignment. “I dont want no shrubs. A shrub is a plant that cant get no sun from me. Hanging out the passenger leaf of his best friend’s tree, trying to pollinate me.” It made zero sense but I got an A.