Piers Morgan’s interview with the “real” Martha from Baby Reindeer is a tough watch

Baby Reindeer is a transfixing, vulnerable tale of creator and star Richard Gadd’s real experience with sexual assault and with a stalker pseudonymously referred to as “Martha.” Upon the release of the Netflix series, which was advertised from the jump as a “true story,” Gadd asked viewers not to speculate about the real-life identities of any of the characters. “That’s not the point of our show,” he insisted. Still, the internet is the internet, which is how a woman named Fiona Harvey ended up on Piers Morgan today talking about how Gadd is the real obsessive liar.

Even though Gadd and Netflix claimed to scrub any identifying details from the show, the internet quickly identified Harvey—a Scottish lawyer who bears a resemblance to Jessica Gunning, the actor who plays Martha—as the most likely candidate. That connection was initially made based on a number of tweets she had sent to Gadd over the years, and furthered by a Daily Mail article that did not include her name. Still, that didn’t stop dozens of other outlets from putting it out there, leading to her first major interview today.

The entire 54-minute Piers Morgan segment is a brutal watch. Harvey repeatedly claims that Gadd made up the entire series (which she claims not to have watched) and that he’s the one with “extreme psychiatric problems,” before contradicting her own answers over and over again, sometimes within the same sentence. There are only “two true facts” in the show, she opens: “His name is Richard Gadd and he worked as a barman at the Holy Arms, and we met two or three times.” Later, she says they met “five or six” times, refers to him as a (former) friend, and admits she went to his comedy show. At one point, she says she didn’t send Gadd anything and then immediately admits she sent “a couple emails but that’s it. Just jokey banter emails.” She admits to making the joke about her curtains and says Gadd asked to sleep with her. You get the picture.

We’re not here to speculate about whether Harvey’s claims—or Gadd’s, for that matter—are true or false. We certainly don’t have all the necessary information. What is evident, though, is that this whole situation is incredibly sad. What happened to Gadd was awful. The fact that people took his story and immediately turned it into an exploitative media sensation is awful. That Netflix and producer Clerkenwell Films failed this dramatically in their duty of care toward the show’s subjects is awful. The fact that Harvey is making talk show appearances instead of getting the assistance that she needs—either because the allegations in Baby Reindeer are true or because her identity was made public and is now receiving death threats—is awful. Stories like Baby Reindeer are important and brave, but it’s time for a reckoning in our true crime-obsessed society. Sometimes, it’s okay to just appreciate a piece of art for what it is and stop trying to dig any further.