Cheers to Roz Doyle, one of the most progressive women to ever grace a sitcom
Before her guest appearance in the Frasier reboot, let's tip one back for this gloriously independent and sex-positive character
TV Features Roz Doyle
There are plenty of sitcoms out there—and so, unsurprisingly, there are plenty of famous female sitcom characters that have seeped out of the pop culture bubble and into the makeup of our very souls.
Think about it: How many Friends fans do you know who described themselves as “such a Monica”? Or Big Bang Theory addicts who plan to align themselves with Penny forever and ever, until the end of time? Or Brooklyn Nine-Nine aficionados who will basically fight to the death for Detective Rosa Diaz? Or Parks And Recreation fans who have the metaphorical equivalent of Leslie Knope’s ever-smiling face inked onto their bicep?
You get the picture. Sitcoms hold a very special place in our hearts, so it makes sense that their characters become so much more than just characters. They become a part of us, helping to inspire and steer us through our day-to-days (or, you know, offer up a “how not to do things” guide, in the case of It’s Always Sunny In Philadelphia’s Dee). But there is one such character who is often criminally overlooked and undervalued: Frasier’s Roz Doyle.
In fact, we’d go so far as to say that Roz—who was played to absolute perfection by Peri Gilpin over the course of Frasier’s 11-season run—is actually one of the most progressive women to grace a classic sitcom. Ever.
To that end, then, we call to order the very first meeting of the Roz Doyle Appreciation Society. We hope you’re sitting comfortably, because we have a lot to get through.
Now, there’s no denying that our girl started out as something of a bit character: She was Frasier’s producer at his KACL radio show, tasked with keeping Kelsey Grammer’s psychiatrist in line (and of interest to his burgeoning bevy of listeners). It wasn’t long, though, before her dry sense of humor began to steal the spotlight and she earned a place as a fully-fledged part of the group, too, becoming Frasier’s best friend, Niles’ sparring partner, Martin’s equal, and Daphne’s confidante. (Hell, she was even going to be the physiotherapist’s maid of honor, until she and Niles eloped and ruined our dreams of a big white wedding.)
So, how did Roz go from Frasier’s colleague–and a reluctant colleague at that (she was always trying to find a job on another show)—to an integral part of this beloved sitcom? Well, her appeal isn’t just down to her wicked sense of humor: It also has a lot to do with her gloriously independent and sex-positive approach to life. Much like Frasier, we see Roz enjoy a number of passionate, no-strings-attached encounters with a stream of pleasant and attractive—albeit largely forgettable—men. While Niles often jokes about her love life, though, Roz never lets anyone slut-shame her, which means that, in turn, she is never treated by the writers as the butt of the joke. Instead, her pragmatic approach to matters of the heart (and loins) is held up as a shining example of womanhood—as something to be celebrated, in fact, whether she’s throwing caution to the wind and pursuing Roger the garbage man, enjoying a spot of hate-sex with Bulldog, briefly considering a reconciliation with her ex, nursing a broken heart, or leaping into bed with (obviously it was bound to happen at some point) Frasier himself.
Roz, you see, absolutely doesn’t need a man to complete her. The traditional happily ever after—love and marriage and a baby carriage—held up by society as the so-called norm just isn’t part of her game plan. And that’s because she isn’t willing to settle for anything less than perfection when it comes to a relationship. She may go into each one hoping to have found The One (despite appearances, our girl is a hopeless romantic), but she’s always willing to call time when it doesn’t feel right. Even with Roger, when the chemistry starts fading. Even with Rick, the cute (and much younger) coffee shop guy who proposes when he finds out she’s pregnant with his baby.
Yeah, that’s right: About halfway through the series, Roz discovers that she’s pregnant by accident—despite doing everything right in terms of birth control— which results in one of the funniest episodes of Frasier. (Seriously, put on season five’s third episode, “Halloween,” if you don’t believe us.) Dressed in an outstanding S&M-style outfit as O from the French erotic novel Story Of O, Roz doesn’t look the part of a traditional sitcom mother, nor is she ever reduced to a stereotype—even when she’s got muffin in her hair and two very different boots on due to a sleep-deprived wardrobe malfunction. Instead, Roz embraces motherhood like the total boss bitch she is, seeking advice and support from her friends as she prepares for the birth of her daughter, Alice, and long after, too. All of her warmth, kindness, and determination is summed up by her relationship with that little girl; and, while becoming a mum is of course an important part of Roz’s journey, it isn’t the thing that solely defines her. If anything, it only serves to throw into sharp relief all of the other amazing aspects of her life. Her brilliant skills as a producer, for example, drive her to do and be the very best she can be at work. Her never-ending quest to have fun, too, whenever and wherever possible. Her dogged determination to find a man who’s truly her equal, no matter how many notches in her bedpost it takes. Her unerring ability to treat her friends like the chosen family she considers them to be, even when she’s running on empty and they’re annoying the hell out of her.
Because here’s the thing: Roz might get teased and berated by the Crane brothers, but she’s the one who threatens everyone in Cafe Nervoso to forget every damn thing they saw on the day that Niles lost his mind a teeny bit and stripped naked in the middle of the busy coffee shop. She’s the one who’s sat holding Daphne’s hand when they’re waiting to hear how Niles’ heart bypass surgery has gone. And she’s the only one, too, who A.) attends Martin’s poker games, B.) calls him Marty, and C.) lets him be a part of her Dalmatian puppy’s life (without letting him tell her how to look after the dog, of course) when she realizes just how much the retired cop enjoys spending time with the pooch.
Come the end of the series, it would have been so easy for showrunners to tie Roz’s story up with a neat little bow, to give her the romantic happily ever after that so many suspected she would get. But our girl defies the odds and, instead of riding into that overrated sunset with some random guy they wrote in for her at the last second, concludes her story with a huge promotion. She’s happy, she’s single, and she’s proof that loving yourself wholeheartedly is the true romance we should all aspire to.
God bless you, Roz Doyle. We can’t wait for your guest appearance in the Frasier reboot.
125 Comments
Roz and Niles sparred a lot but Roz certainly gave back as good as she got.Though when someone was in trouble, she would definitely come through and help them.
I love the progression of their relationship; they started out really not liking each other but eventually they became quite close in their own way. All the while trash-talking each other.
Roz licking Niles’ antique book is my favourite of her comebacks. She always knew the quickest way to cut him down to size.
This has nothing to do with Taylor Swift. Why am I supposed to care about it?
Maybe it’s tangentially connected to Amber Heard
Somewhere, Kevin Bacon heaves a sigh of relief that that game is no longer about him.
Actually I think the strength of Roz as a character has EVERYTHING to do with Taylor Swift.Think about it.
my brain hurts.
Honestly I wasn’t even joking about that, I think Roz as a character has a lot in common with Taylor Swift’s public persona and you could say a lot about how we both have and haven’t changed as a society in comparing the two.
I’m sure you weren’t. Now hush.
Not all of the Roz stuff held up but way more of it did than you’d expect from that era for that character.
She got pregnant by a college student. Love how they skip over that part in the post.
Roz and Frasier sleeping together was a groan-inducing mistake that never should have been put on screen.
I’m glad that they at least more or less instantly went back to being friends and colleagues. Almost as if it were all some sort of sweeps week stunt…
Yeah that rivaled Rachel and Joey becoming an item for a few minutes. Major misfire.
I think the misfire was how quickly that ended. Ross having a breakdown seeing Joey and Rachel despite having hooked up with Joey’s ex minutes after they broke up was… questionable. It was like Joey and Rachel was only a thing so that the storyline where Ross was pining for Joey’s girlfriend didn’t end the same way as Chandler pining for Joey’s girlfriend in an earlier season (and boy did they end that relationship quickly after all the drama between the two guys was resolved).
Completely disagree… It’s used as a vehicle for the two of them to have a discussion about their plutonic love for each other by the end of that two-parter. I think that 30 Rock did it better with Jack and Liz in the series finale, but when Frasier and Roz finally have that discussion about how much they care about each other, it’s sweet.
plutonic loveIs that the kind of love that isn’t a planet anymore?
Pedant mode: platonic love is non-sexual, plutonic love means death is involved.
I thought it worked, because they both immediately acknowledged it was a mistake, and it kind of settled that will they won’t they tension, and the question of if they might be be a romantic pair. Which, would’ve been catastrophic for the series if they HAD tried to ‘ship Frasier and Roz.
Earlier on there’s an episode where (like many epsiodes) there are some mixed signals, and the two come close to sleeping with one another, but it just serves to reaffirm their friendship/profressional relationship.
My point is, man that was a bad decision to have them sleep together.
I can see why people didn’t like it but it makes sense that the show’s 2 biggest horndogs (aside from Bulldog, I guess) ended up sleeping together at least once. And I think it maybe resolved one element of their friendship — the question of whether their chemistry could move beyond friendship (answer: nope). That said, I really enjoy long running plutonic pairings much more, like Jack and Liz in 30 Rock or Leslie and Ron in Parks.
It was emblematic of the struggles the writers seemed to have writing Roz in the later years. Her “ultimatum” to Frasier in the season 10 finale—when she demanded he dump Felicity Huffman’s character or lose Roz as his friend—was so cringey and out of character.
Not on primetime network television anyway.
Top time machine destinations:1. Off Hitler as a child
2. Woodstock3. early 1990s to try and land Peri Gilpin
Not necessarily in that order
Ok, why are si many people obsessed with infanticide! Just kill Hitler on his 18th birthday. Geez.
Why not just go back to nine months before Hitler’s birth and cockblock his parents for a couple of weeks?
That would be acceptable, but I don’t think you’ve taken into account how hard it is to stop two horny people from fucking. Also what if Hitler was premature? It may take more than a couple of weeks of cock blocking. What if his mother cheated on his father? Nah, just invite the group for a couple of beers on his birthday and poison his beer with a convenient substance you brought from the future that is undetectable in the past. Ask Putin for ideas.
What if whatever sperm and egg that got together inside Mrs. Hitler made someone even worse?
Or what if the problem wasn’t Hitler per se? What if 1930’s Germany gets a leader who’s just as terrible, but more competent?
How about we go back in time and bribe her doctor to tell her she needs a hysterectomy or something? I mean, there are lots of things that might work that aren’t, y’know, child murder.
This is the way. Nice and ethical.
Imagine if you didn’t get back to your time machine quickly enough and got caught by the cops. You’d have to explain why you killed Mr and Mrs Hitler’s poor baby son.
By then wouldn’t we have had to endure some of his shitty paintings?
If we’re changing major events in history, I think I’d start by gifting Franz Ferdinand a bulletproof sedan.
wouldn’t help – the top was down.
that war was happening sometime in the 2010s regardless of what happened in Sarajevo.
1910s.I post drunk, I don’t post uninformed
The band?
Having the ability to alter events in the time stream is too much responsibility. Do you try to stop the slave trade? Sure, it would be difficult to halt such a massive societal practice, maybe impossible, but aren’t you obligated to give it a try for the sake of all those brutalised people? Do you herd people out of Pompeii before the volcano erupts? It was a natural disaster and no one’s fault, but that doesn’t mean all those people should die. And on and on it goes.
I would go back in time and kill Mt Vesuvius.
Or give his driver an updated itinerary.Seriously, though, WWI was going to happen one way or another over the next 10 years.
Get Hanz one as well.
I’ll be your wingman for 90s Gilpin if you’ll be mine for 90s Bebe Neuwirth.
“land” her?
I realize that Roz and Niles had a combative little friendship, but I still have never understood, in the episode where Niles takes Roz to the cabin as a ploy to break up Daphne and Donnie, why Frasier is so incredulous about the idea that Niles would possibly have interest in Roz – a smart, successful, and extremely attractive woman. I know, I know, it’s because they clashed and so on, but come on man. Who WOULDN’T have been down for a fun weekend away with Peri Gilpin?
Fun, beautiful woman who is notably DTF…yeah can’t figure out the attraction there either.
Because in your heart of hearts you know Frasier never considered Roz good enough for Niles.
“What? ‘Sophisticated?’ ‘Cultured’? Is that why you think I won’t fit in with your snooty A-List friends? I’m not genteel enough?!”“Oh now, Roz-”“Now Roz, my ass! I’m just as refined as a you are, shut up, Niles!”
I never liked that episode solely because Roz and Niles are so mean-spirited, like why should I root for these people? It didn’t seem like something they would do to get what they wanted. It was pretty good farce, though.
I think one way to look at it is after +5 years of not showing any interest in each other, he was baffled by the sudden change. Frasier overthinks things often, looking for deeper psychological meaning. There also the aspect of Niles being on the rebounding after Dapne started dating Donnie that Frasier wouldn’t like like because it good lead to hurt and especially be worried about someone being hurt if the rebound was his best friend, Roz.
I love Roz Doyle as a character, which is why I’m dreading her upcoming appearance on nu-Frasier – given what I’ve heard about how much of Frasier’s backstory is ignored for cheap laughs, I can’t imagine the new show giving Roz her due.
Is she just doing a guest spot in the new one?
As far as I know it’s a one-episode appearance, but I might be wrong.
Man, I don’t get this reboot where almost the entire cast is different.
They have to call it a reboot, because “Hey baby, I hear a sequel calling…” doesn’t sound as close to the original as “reboot” does when parodying “Tossed Salad and Scrambled Eggs” for the headlines.
For those who don’t know, Lisa Kudrow was originally slated to play Roz. How different that would have been.
I actually didn’t know that, wow… that might have changed the fortunes of two massively successful shows. o.O
I don’t recall the details and I’m too lazy to google it, but if I recall correctly the issue was how Lisa Kudrow played the character. I believe she was playing it very meek, and there was a lack of chemistry between her and Kelsey Grammer. Roz’s take no shit attitude was definitely needed to make that role work.
Yep. And Peri Gilpin and Lisa Kudrow were apparently friends, from what I remember reading in the oral history of the show, and Peri was conflicted about taking a job her friend had just lost but Kudrow called her and essentially gave her very supportive “permission” and took the guilt off of her shoulders. And yeah, Kudrow’s take was a little too quirky (who could have guessed a Lisa Kudrow character would be quirky!?), and they didn’t think she was right to basically be able to dish it right back to Frasier, and Peri’s take was obviously more of a tough, “I’ll happily flip double birds at you to tell you what I think” type that worked better as foil to Frasier and Niles.
For sure on your second paragraph. I don’t think it’s an insult to Kudrow’s abilities as an actor to say she just doesn’t seem like she would have been a good fit for that role. I love both Metallica and The Rolling Stones, but I sure can’t imagine Hetfield and Jagger swapping bands.
‘Paint It Blech.’
A Metallica cover of that song might actually be kind of neat.
How fun would it have been to have Lisa Kudrow on Friends, Mad About You AND Frasier all at the same time though? Phoebe could have been triplets!
I think having Lisa Kudrow on one half hour show per week was exactly enough Lisa Kudrow for me. I did watch Mad About You a bit simply because my parents did, but it wasn’t really for me, nor was it intended to be at that time. I don’t know if you’re familiar with it, but I always thought it was funny that an episode of Seinfeld took a lowkey dig at Mad About you which aired on the same night on the same network. Not sure if it was a good natured swipe at it or not, but Paul Reiser appeared on at least one episode of Curb, and Richard Kind who played his (brother, cousin?) plays a recurring character.
She would actually have done well (it would have been very different, of course). Phoebe always had a hard edge of straight talk amid all her boho flightiness.
She was very hot circulating on the Paramount lot at that time, doing featured roles on Cheers and Newhart (iirc she was gf to Daryl or Daryl in their final appearance) and about to get recurring on Mad About You.
When I did a binge-watch of The Dick Van Dyke Show a few years ago, Sally reminded me so much of Roz. Definitely setting the template for that kind of character.
And that was kind of a progressive show for it’s time too.
its time.
I never made that connection before, but yes!
Sally was desperate for a husband, though.
They become a part of us, helping to inspire and steer us through our day-to-dayslol come the fuck on
That really was the case in the heyday of sitcoms though. I’m all for shitting on nu-AV Club’s overwrought writing but that bit is accurate.
I know Charlie from It’s Always Sunny has inspired me to become the best illiterate rat killer I can be.
How many Friends fans do you know who described themselves as “such a Monica”? Or Big Bang Theory addicts who plan to align themselves with Penny forever and ever, until the end of time? Or Brooklyn Nine-Nine aficionados who will basically fight to the death for Detective Rosa Diaz? Or Parks And Recreation fans who have the metaphorical equivalent of Leslie Knope’s ever-smiling face inked onto their bicep?I don’t know anyone like that. If I did, I’d tell them to seek professional help.
You sound like a real Dana. You should try to be more of a Weird Guy Who Lived In A Van In The Driveway And Was In A Couple Of Kickboxer Movies.
What? Aren’t all your friends terminally-online pop-culture content-millers, too?
I don’t know about the other shows, but women describing themselves as being Rachels or Monicas was definitely the 90s version of Ginger versus Mary Ann.
women describing themselves as being Rachels or Monicas was definitely the 90s version of Ginger versus Mary Ann.
And it was always stupid.
Christ you’re miserable
i thought the ginger vs. mary ann comparison was more of a male thing to do…?
It was… and the answer is Ginger.
You’re such a Samantha
I do like sex…
betty versus veronica!
That’s such a Samantha thing to say!
You’re such a Monica.
Wait, she bones Frasier in the show? I never got that far.The whole article is about how her independent, sex-positive and feministic character holds up in 2023, right? Does fucking your superior and hate-fucking your colleagues count as boss bitch behavior?Not great for progressivism, huh?
You’re misunderstanding the author’s definition of “boss bitch” and “progressivism”:“Are the action things I, the author, a white woman, would like to be able to get away with, and are they being done by an attractive white women? If yes, then that’s progress, bitches!”
Wait, she doesn’t sound very progressive. There’s not mention of, say, the Progressive Stack, or judging everyone by immutable characteristics, or blaming people alive today for the sins of their fucking dead ancestors, or of colorblindness being racist, or how to be an “anti-racist” by being racist, or wanting socialism, or thinking gender is a social construct yet taking sex-specific hormones to transition, or complaining about media representation when your race is waaay overrepresented, etc…
Roz was basically the audience surrogate, saying exactly what viewers were thinking about the other characters at any given time (but with much more succinctly cutting snark).
And the Frasier audience also slept with a lot of men.
I’m of two minds about Roz. I think the character and Gilpin’s portrayal is luminous, but it’s a bit of sleight-of-hand how the writers used her sex positivity as license to play some pretty misogynist jokes for laughs. Sure she always came out on top – or at least never let the barbs do any real harm – but the laugh line was usually the one delivered at her expense (usually by Hyde-Pierce, who can’t help but score big laughs with his surgical delivery). I know some women in my life find her incredibly frustrating for that reason.
Sure she always came out on top Please tell me that was on purpose.
I deleted a (ha) I originally put in there because the sentence was already way too messy.
I always give stars to people who understand the value of good editing. Bravo.
Yeah, there was a bit of “having your cake and eating it too” going on. The writers definitely indulged in ever slut-shaming joke they could think of and used Roz having a decent comeback as cover.
I love Frasier the series and Roz was a fave, but one aspect of the show that has aged terribly, is all the ways Frasier and Niles slut-shamed Rox. With the benefit of time and hindsight, it all now seems really cruel, and I wince every time they demean her choices.
Agreed. It’s like the show was torn between wanting the character to be sex-positive, and still wanting to shame her for being a woman who is sex-positive.
And it’s got such great writing and it is so funny for how high minded it is with its puns and cultural references. The jokes mocking Rozs’ sex positive attitudes feel like they belong in a far lesser sitcom.
I thought of it more as the writers wanting to mock Roz for her promiscuity at the same time as making fun of the stuffy, prudish Crane boys and their beta ways. Social conditions were such that they could have their cake and eat it too. Those audience members who wanted to laugh at Roz could and those who thought it was more of a joke on Frasier and Niles could assume they were the real butts. It might have been a fortuitous accident that it came off that way but I think it was intentional.It’s been two decades since I’ve seen the show so my memory of that aspect is just a general sense of Frasier and Niles gossiping like schoolgirls about Roz’s sexual exploits while studiously ignoring their lack thereof. Did it actually get nasty by today’s standards or just cringey?
They mock her to her face. A lot.And even if she did give back in return, and even if there was the intention of making the joke really on Niles and Frasier, at a certain point it happens so much that it definitely feels like the writers are shaming Roz for it and the Cranes are just the mouthpiece.
I can’t imagine the need to put out like 30 scripts a year where every three lines should get laughs, applause or whatever audience reaction is needed. I’m sure I’d come up with some awful shit wracking my brain for anything vaguely funny to kill runtime. It’s just too easy to write some silly back and forth between Roz and Frasier:R: “Fraz, I need to cut out early. I’ve got to get a new doormat. Someone stole mine, can you believe it?”F: “Certainly Roz. But are you sure it was stolen and not worn away? The footsteps of many men have trod that hallowed portal…”R: “It was stolen. Anyway better a worn out welcome mat than your lonely little lightbulb, burning away into the night waiting for someone who will never come.”F: “Touché. And ouch…é.”At least that’s how I recall the tenor of those exchanges. Within the context of the show I think it works and isn’t endorsing misogyny because we viewers know that Frasier is a loser whose insults to Roz are based in petty jealousy and that the back and forth is a usual feature of their relationship. I feel like there’s a difference between the writers slut-shaming the character and them making Niles and Frasier the type of men who would do that then writing accordingly. But I can also understand the argument that putting out that type of content as comedy, and from characters who aren’t clearly labeled as wrong is a bad thing for society. Which is fair, not everyone will get the context or subtext.Thankfully today it seems like people who don’t think such humor is morally wrong tend to see it (correctly) as cheap and gimmicky. With the sitcom format dying there’s less encouragement for laugh a minute scripts which I think exacerbated the demand for cheap humor.
A different way to look at this dynamic is that in order for Roz to be so profoundly sex-positive, she needed the foil of the slut-shaming Crane brothers. It’s that contrast that makes her shine so brightly to the audience.
That’s true (though if that’s the worst a 90s show does, that’s actually pretty good, legacy-wise). It was so odd given that Fraiser banged his way indiscriminately through the entire series.
Very true! And then there was all the body-shaming, making fun of her appearance, her fluctuating weight. It all feels a little less cruel because we never actually see Maris, but really that doesn’t change that they’re making fun of someone who has some pretty serious mental health challenges.
It doesn’t bother me as much as it would otherwise, though, because Roz clearly didn’t give a crap what they thought. I adore how self-assured she was throughout the show, which made the few moments she wasn’t (for example, when she worried she didn’t know enough to be a mom) so poignant.
Roz also fires back at them just as often—some of the quips haven’t aged well, but the verbal sparring itself is great, and winds up giving way to Roz and Niles becoming friends too.
See, I actually think it works because Roz is not really the butt of the joke, and a lot of those remarks come with tinge of jealousy that Frasier and Niles are not as sexually active as Roz is (believe it or not, a lot of slut-shaming is a way of expressing frustration that you’re not getting any yourself)…
I’d add that the jokes about how little Maris eats are pretty nasty. Like, that’s an eating disorder you’re talking about. It’s a serious psychological condition that kills people.
i’d have to go back and watch some again, but my impression was always that the joke was on the boys; here Roz is out there having a successful dating/sex life, while Frasier and Niles had one romantic disaster after another. To me, Roz got the last laugh.
Yeah, I’ve talked about this with people before too. Really annoying and pathetic. Niles as a male character was honestly utterly unbearable for the first bunch of seasons because of his weird infatuation with Daphne and the way he always shit on Roz’s power-fucking. And I disagree with the author: the show definitely played it for laughs at Roz’s expense.
This reads very AI
In the reboot Roz should 100% be the host of the world’s most popular sex-positive podcast (a la Sextras).
My favourite Roz sex joke is one that she makes sarcastically: after Frasier has suggested that the men Roz dates aren’t good enough for Daphne, she gets (rightfully) fed up and storms out of Nervosa. Frasier tries to beg her to stay, to which she snaps, “I can’t, the fleet is in!”
My favorite was when she mentions that physical contact can add years to your life and Frasier replies “In that case, you shall outlive styrofoam.”
Roz would have been cancelled fifty times by todays standards
“I’m O from The Story of O.”“Oh.”
So would that be your “O face”?