Sia's experiencing backlash over her upcoming film and isn't handling it well at all
Aux Features Sia
Hey, did you know that Sia has a new album coming out in February? The pop singer-songwriter announced her eighth studio album, Music – Songs From And Inspired By The Motion Picture, on February 12, 2021. “Uh, what motion picture,” you ask? Well, that’s where it gets just a little more complicated (or way more fucked up, depending on where you stand).
In conjunction with the album, Sia plans to release a film titled, obviously, Music. Starring Kate Hudson and Dance Moms alum Maddie Ziegler, the film will serve as the singer’s directorial debut and is set for a limited IMAX release. The official synopsis doesn’t offer much information on the plot, but says that the story “is a wholly original exploration of the healing power of love and the importance of community.” Sia’s camp released a trailer for the movie, which shows Ziegler portraying an autistic teenager. The trailer faced swift, rightful criticism from the disabled community, which was quick to point out that Ziegler—one of Sia’s long-time creative collaborators—is not autistic, making her characterization offensive to those who are.
While many would see this as a great opportunity to listen to disabled advocates (many of whom have been discussing the issue with this kind of casting rather publicly for years), Sia chose to double down rather dickishly firmly on her choice to cast Ziegler and proceeded to list all of the other representation points she managed to score in the process. “I cast thirteen neuroatypical people, three trans folk, and not as fucking prostitutes or drug addicts but s as doctors, nurses and singers,” she tweeted. “Fucking sad nobody’s even seen the dang movie. My heart has always been in the right place.”
Sia continued to respond to a number of people and tweet indignantly, mainly to lament that her good intentions and “years of research” are being overlooked in favor of calling out blatant ableism. Seriously, won’t somebody think of the poor, defensive director?
She went on to explain that she consulted Autism Speaks, a rather polarizing advocacy organization that sponsors autism research and spreads awareness. This caused a fresh wave of concern as the organization has been heavily criticized for potentially harmful language used in reference with autism. Sia says she was not aware that the group was viewed as problematic.
Though the response has been largely negative, some of her fans, including a few who are neuroatypical themselves, did come to her defense. She also claims that a couple of autistic consultants advised her to cast Ziegler, as they felt that the choice would be more humane towards those who, like the friend she modeled the character after, found the filming process too stressful.
But the real kicker arrived after she was challenged on her choice to cast Ziegler as the lead by autistic performers. After disclosing that the character was based on a neuroatypical, nonverbal friend who found the filming process too stressful, an autistic actor pointed out that there are actors like herself who are more than willing to step in at a moment’s notice. “Several autistic actors, myself included, responded to these tweets. We all said we could have acted in it on short notice. These excuses are just that- excuses. The fact of the matter is zero effort was made to include anyone who is actually autistic.”
Sia’s response: “Maybe you’re just a bad actor.” As far as we are aware, saying nothing was an available option at the time.
Sia is no stranger to controversy. Back in 2015, she received hearty criticism over her video for “Elastic Heart,” which featured a then-12-year-old Ziegler dancing with a Speedo-clad Shia LaBeouf. While some felt the video was within the bounds of artistic propriety, others felt that the age difference was inappropriate for the video’s style. In response, Sia simply… apologized. Imagine that.
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The film looks horrible. That said, I understand Sia’s frustration here. No matter what she does, it will never be good enough for some people. The easiest choice is to simply not include such characters in your film, which is often the unintended consequence of such advocacy. Autism is such a broad diagnosis that having a mildly Autistic person play someone who has severe autism is really no different from having someone with the condition take the role.
Intentions aside, she is making the optically-disastrous move of not stepping back and saying nothing so everyone can wear themselves out, and instead digging in and tweeting harder.
That’s always what I don’t understand. Even if you think the reaction is overblown and your critics are really crybaby idiots, how could you not see that saying “I think the reaction is overblown and my critics are crybaby idiots” is not the move here? This happens every time and people always just step on the rake when they could do literally anything else.
Just let it play out online and say nothing. It will possibly be forgotten about and maybe get some minor rumblings when it finally comes out. She made the decision to lash out which is even worse than a nonapology of – I’m sorry you feel that way.
Then she would be lambasted for not “listening” to the criticism, and she would be asked about it in every interview. I’m not saying this approach is necessarily better, but ultimately it seemed like it was going to result in mostly the same thing.
I think a lot of commenters are crybaby idiots.
Except by not calling out the “crybaby idiots” when they are in fact acting like crybaby idiots, you cede ground to them and allow them to claim it as a win. As this happens more and more, this type of behavior gets normalized by society at large. I’m really not in favor of the whiniest/loudest people in any situation getting to control the conversation.
A poor reaction is indeed a poor reaction, but that does not change how completely unreasonable the reaction is, as if people should only ever play characters like themselves. I really, really hate sticking up for conservative rhetoric, but in this case it’s spot on. It’s also discrimination to say only certain kinds of people are allowed to play people unlike themselves.
Look, Sia and whoever else responds like her, is a human being first and foremost. And maybe, just maybe this is a marketing ploy that actually gets them more streams like a rap beef?
Fuck em. If theyre crybaby idiots im gonna tell em so.
I definitely didn’t have “get insulted & cussed-out by Sia on Twitter” on my agenda for today. 😀
It’s 2020 – you discover your bingo card as you go along! Also, agreed with you 100%. This isn’t some college fan film about someone with limited resources trying to depict their friend’s life. It’s a very wealthy, and extremely influential artist who has the means and resources to run a casting call. The Autism Speaks bit is also very telling. Naturally, not all people with Autism are against them. But I’ve met FAR more autistic individuals who hate them than respect them…I do bet Sia talked to someone with autism who told them they’d be a good resource. But I’m also sure if she talked to, like, 2 more she’d have found out they’re contentious.
Hey, I didn’t get cussed out by Sia or anyone else of note, on twitter or otherwise. So you’ve already got a better story than I do.
That is very true. Not responding to Tweets is a superpower we all need.
Because fuck those whiny idiots. They deserve a lot harsher than she’s giving.
Yeah I guess. But also…complaining doesn’t defund her movie. Maybe she hit a breaking point. I get it.
Does anyone ever do that?
No matter what you say or do, social media insures that SOMEONE is going to publicly slap you. Why anyone famous would validate those criticisms by responding is beyond me. This isn’t a story because Sia was criticized, it’s a story because she replied.
I would disagree with that- especially since it’s a spectrum rather than something in terms of severity. All of our experiences are different (I’m actually the person above that she called a bad actor) but we do have shared challenges that are really hard to get across to people who haven’t been around us. The point I was trying to make (and I wasn’t ever intending to personally attack her, by the way) was that major motion pictures & artists with this type of influence have the ability to put their resources towards supporting a community. She has the means & if she truly wanted to uplift people with autism, why didn’t she cast an autistic actress? Why didn’t she use her platform to reach out to the autistic community? Regardless, I hold no ill towards her & I just hope this helps spread awareness towards the type of discrimination we face on a fairly regular basis.
I have to say, as another neuroatypical person, I feel like your response was a bit facile, to put it mildly. “Why didn’t she cast an autistic actress” is not a “CHECKMATE!”-type thing that completely seals any and all argument. In fact it’s rather hollow. If there were specific, equally-skilled autistic actresses available (as, arguably, has been the case when this has happened with trans people), who were they? I mean, sure “Maybe you’re a just a bad actor” is a fairly harsh response, and I do feel a bit bad for you to have to get that thrown at you, but if you look, at actors in general (some of who are neuroatypical – Paddy Considine, who is tremendous, was diagnosed with Aspergers, for example), not that many are actually even ok, let alone good (as going to any smaller stage production will usual reveal). I think immediately pre-determining that the performance will be or inherently is “offensive” (the position this article appears to take, I don’t know if you agree) is really a bit much.With my condition, yeah if someone portrayed it offensively, and it absolutely has been portrayed offensively on occasion, I would absolutely be offended. So I understand being concerned. But equally, I don’t think it remotely takes someone to have the condition to be able to portray it well, and I’d rather it was portrayed well, than just “by someone with the condition” (especially, again, as like with autism, the condition varies hugely).
I agree with you that it is possible but why is it suddenly okay to throw representation out the window & take opportunities away from people who are disabled but not in any other minority group. To be clear, I have a wonderful job I love. I never wanted the role, or even knew about the role, nor would even take it because it would have taken me away from what I love. But why is it okay to downplay this just because the minority group in question is people with disabilities? Why couldn’t she have used this as an opportunity to give an amazing chance to someone in the autistic community that wouldn’t have gotten it otherwise due to discrimination?
As a side note, I had several other points as well dealing with representation and the like. I’m guessing you just didn’t see them & that’s okay. 🙂 I just wanted to help amplify the voices of others in the thread as well so that all our voices can be heard. 🙂
You’re fucking delusional
P.S.- I never wanted it to seem like it was a checkmate. I wanted to educate, to advocate, to inform. I had no intention of this blowing up whatsoever nor did I expect my Friday to turn into a celebrity throwing personal insults at me. I get you’re one of her fans- that’s awesome! It’s great that you’re sticking up for her. 🙂 But I truly wasn’t trying to “mic drop” or anything like that, certainly wasn’t trying to checkmate or anything of the sort.
I’m actually not one of her fans. I think her music is pretty bland and the movie doesn’t look great. That you’re assuming I am because I criticized your argument is perhaps something you should maybe take away and think about, re: education and so on, because you need to consider why you’d make that rather extreme assumption. Just because people disagree with you, doesn’t make them “fan” or a “hater” or whatever.I just don’t really like this “only people with the same diagnosis can possibly portray it correctly” attitude. I don’t think you’re taking stuff away by having someone other than an autistic person portray the role. As you know, experiences and attitudes vary wildly. I think the chances of an offensive or wildly inauthentic/inaccurate portrayal aren’t actually much different between someone with very mild autism (which would be the autistic person by far the most likely to get this role), and someone who is neurotypical and just, y’know, actually decent at acting, and who cares about their role.It’s fine to disagree, and to think that it’s vital all roles go the exact precise minority, but I dunno, I think that can get really unreasonable really fast and actually potentially decrease representation, particularly with minorities who simply don’t produce as many actors (for whatever reason), because writers/directors/producers simply end up changing what roles they write. It’s good to be wary of this, of course, because sometimes it’s just an excuse, but that’s why ask who the specific people missing out are. Often that question CAN be answered and answered well. When no suggestions are being made, I think that tends to suggest that the argument is a bit empty.
Thank you for raising the issue with her, and for being the bigger person about it. (FWIW, I’m a disability rights lawyer, and am also autistic myself.) The issue seems particularly distressing to me in light of the fact that we autistic folk tend to simply communication differently than NTs, and just as they understand each other better than they understand us, we also understand each other better than we understand them. Just as not every Black person has the same experience, but there are common elements that a white person (such as myself) could never really understand or reflect (or imitate without it becoming a form of caricature), the same is true of autistic people, so casting NTs in autistic (or other disabled) parts will almost inevitably devolve into a form of minstrelsy, no matter how noble the intention.
Either way, thank you for doing what you’re doing – the more visible we are and the better our representation is, the better it will be for all of us.
I think the error is in thinking that art is supposed to be a form of supporting a community or a means of uplifting specific individuals. If the performance is tasteful and well done then I don’t see the crime.
Appreciate you commenting on here. I’m curious – while you obviously don’t represent an entire community, is there anything you’d consider a satisfactory “reaching out” to the autistic community short of casting an autistic actor for this part?
Honest question. How many autistic actors are there in Hollywood? How many are talented enough to be in a motion picture? Of course Hollywood hasn’t helped, but it must be pretty slim picking right? Compared to finding an excellent actor of color.
“We all said we could have acted in it on short notice.”Uh… what? You offered to work on a movie after the trailer had come out? That goes a bit beyond “short notice”. “These excuses are just that- excuses.”
What are exactly are excuses?“The fact of the matter is zero effort was made to include anyone who is actually autistic.”How do you know that? It looks to me like you’re making a bunch of arrogant assumptions. Sia claims that she *did* include neuroatypical people, and Shannon Miller referred to that as “list[ing] all of the other representation points she managed to score in the process.” It’s really screwed up that people can just make unfounded accusations, and Sia can’t respond to those claims without being accused of tryin to “score representation points”. “#NothingAboutUsWithoutUs”
Why does everything about you have to include you?“I’m actually the person above that she called a bad actor“She didn’t call you a bad actor. You claimed that there was “no excuse” for not hiring you, and she responded by noting that she has no way of knowing whether you’re qualified.“and I wasn’t ever intending to personally attack her, by the way”Oh, please. You claimed, having no idea what the background was, declared that she had “no excuses” and that there was “no effort” made. Unless you have some in depth knowledge of the movie that you’re not sharing with us, you made a completely baseless attack.“Why didn’t she use her platform to reach out to the autistic community?”She reached out to Autism Speaks. Yes, that’s problematic, but she likely didn’t know that. She made a good faith effort.“I just hope this helps spread awareness towards the type of discrimination we face on a fairly regular basis.”Making baseless attacks on behalf of autistics hardly is beneficial to the community.
Sia directly responded with a snide “Maybe you’re just a bad actor.” That’s definitely calling her a bad actor. Also clearly the ‘we all said’ indicates previous correspondencece. This whole thing makes it seem like you aren’t interested in a discussion in good faith, to be honest.
“That’s definitely calling her a bad actor.” No, it’s not. I presented an argument why it’s not. You didn’t address that argument, you simply repeated the claim that she called her a bad actor, then accused me of not participating in good faith. “ Also clearly the ‘we all said’ indicates previous correspondencece.”
Your point is hardly clear. “This whole thing makes it seem like you aren’t interested in a discussion in good faith, to be honest.”You have no argument for how I am acting in good faith. Accusing someone of acting in bad faith without any argument is itself bad faith.
because it’s not a DOCUMENTARY?Acting is a SKILL that requires an Actor, not just a random autistic off the street what the fuck is wrong with you people?
Predators didn’t get this kind of backlash for doing the same (but even worse)!
I recall reading some minor rumblings about the autistic character in Predators, but the issue quickly got lost in the shuffle of “sweet Jesus, you hired a sex offender?!” think-pieces.
The creators of Predators would have gladly accepted backlash over the collective yawn their movie received. Even though I know it’s a separate movie that exists, it really just looks like a typo.
I assume you meant The Predator, not Predators? While I’ve never seen either movie, Wikipedia makes no men of autism in Predators while The Predator did have an autistic character.Why they can’t just call movies Predator 3 and Predator 4 is beyond me.
Getting Autism Speaks involved is what seals it for me. That organization doesn’t care about autistic people. It’s basically there so the parents of autistic people can feel like martyrs.
That’s such a simple example of why having people with autism involved in production would have been a positive move. Autism Speaks is well known in autistic circles as a trash organisation, but people with little or no experience with the disorder just easily get involved with them time and again. Autism Speaks just has to come in and say ‘we’re the largest autism charity in the country, we’re the only one with any real mainstream clout, look at all this flashy shit we’ve done.’ and the average neurotypical person isn’t going to question that at all. It compounds the problem.
Exactly. If everyone put in this situation handles it badly, then what is handling it well beyond groveling for an apology and doing what the mob is asking for? Also, as far as optics (my least favorite word) is concerned, writing “you’re just a bad actor” won’t win her any points, but…what is with this idea that just because you share a trait with a character, you’re the right choice to play a role in a film? Unless identity politics are truly your first and last priority in making art, then how does this make any sense?
That’s why I only make movies by for and about white straight ladies and gentlemen who have midwestern accents and NO physical or mental “needs”.
So…you haven’t looked at any real Midwestern communities ever.This is why representation matters. Assumptions are blinkered.
No matter what she does, it will never be good enough for some people.Except the “some people” here are generally the people the movie is attempting to portray. When autistic people object to your movie about an autistic person, you pretty much have to shut up and listen and not fucking insult them.
No, they don’t deserve that. “I’m a random autistic person with a Twitter account” doesn’t mean “And if you want to make fiction dealing with my disorder, you have to do it to my specifications.” Sia freaking loves Maddie Ziegler and would probably cast her as the iceberg if she remade Titanic. Any autistic person, any person at all, can express their happiness or lack thereof with their wallet and eyeballs, but acting like she has a responsibility to “give someone an opportunity” is childish and self-absorbed. Want to have a conversation about whether the character is a caricature? That’s understandable. Decide that this fiction is “not Sia’s story to tell”? This is not your world; get over yourself.
I think there’s one aspect of this that highlights the overall issue many people have with how Sia went about this movie: She cited Autism Speaks as a supporter.For folks unaware, Autism Speaks has a piss-poor reputation among autism support groups. They frame autism as a horrendous disease that ruins your life and the life of everyone who is burdened with your presence. They’re working to a world where it is “cured”. For most people with autism, it’s not a disease they’re struggling against, it’s a part of who they are. Most of their obstacles with autism come from the failure of the world around them to consider the way they interact with the world as anything but a disease symptom that has to be tolerated or accommodated at best, shunned at worst.
In short: They view autism from the perspective of a person burdened with autistic people’s existence, not that of people who actually live with autism.Speaking to actual autistic people – or hell, just eavesdropping in any online forum with a large number of autistic people, with the exception of internet shitpipes like 4chan – would have revealed this very, very early on.And that indicates very bad things for the portrayal of the autistic character in her film and how she interacts with her world.Consulting with, or at least researching the perspective of the people you’re writing about is possibly the most basic element of writing characters who aren’t like you.
It also causes the problem of vastly limiting your talent pool for the film. If an actor comes along, perfectly fits the character and has the acting chops, doesn’t that lead to a better movie than choosing a less than ideal actor who fills a representation need? I’d also imagine that there are far fewer great actors with mid-high spectrum autism than say, great black actors to choose from.
The easiest choice is to make the movie you want to make and don’t answer these kind of critics. You can’t have a conversation with the internet mob. Whatever the subject is.
“No matter what she does” is the right call here. Once the Hive Mind decides you are “problematic” there is NOTHING you can do to placate them. I’m happy to call myself liberal, but enough is enough. It’s like people forget what the word “acting” even means.
“Autism is such a broad diagnosis that having a mildly Autistic person play someone who has severe autism is really no different from having someone with the condition take the role.”this is just wrong.
How is that wrong? We have all known severely autistic children, and we have known adults that are fully functioning but “on the spectrum”.There is a world of difference between the two.
This is tough. I personally work with a program that helps teach media production skills (and life skills) to young adults on the autism spectrum with the hopes they’ll eventually get employed in the workforce. I love doing this kind of work with all of my heart. Coming from that end, it’s a bummer and feels like a pretty wasted opportunity.
On the other hand, I get it. It’s a movie, not a documentary. She is free to make whatever creative choice she wants to regarding it. No matter what choice she made — people were gonna be upset. It’s not the best look for her to spar with the upset community right now, but I get it.
pretty sure no one would be upset if an autistic person had been cast
Pretty sure you don’t get to make casting decisions for other people dipshit
Critics?
Well, Neil Young made that Journey Through The Past. That was pretty wacked out. Ever see that?
“Ziegler… is not autistic”. That sound like the STUPIDEST complaint in the world, currently (I’m sure there have been many others equally as stupid before). I mean, that is REALLY REALLY stupid. Do people not know what ‘acting’ is? Sean Connery was neither Russian nor a submarine commander yet he played both – at the same time! How scandalous, when there were so many Russian submarine commanders looking for acting jobs!
being russian isn’t a disability nor is being a submarine commander
Have you ever met a Sub Commander? It’s a literal OK Boomer moment
Yeah, but other sailors constantly look down upon “Sub-mariners”. Usually with SONAR.
being russian isn’t a disability Well…some people might disagree with that lol.
Submarine commanders are not a marginalized/disenfranchised group, and unlike autistic actors they are not struggling to find good roles in Hollywood. The comparison does not apply.However, I am disappointed by the way we psychopaths are frequently represented by neurotypicals. There are many psychopath actors in Hollywood – Randy Quaid, Mel Gibson, Kevin Spacey – who could portray a psychopath a lot more authentically than, say, Alec Baldwin.
On what basis do you say that autistic actors are struggling to get acting roles? There are plenty of autistic actors, in some cases very, very famous ones. It’s just that, unlike minority or trans actors, people don’t immediately realize it. Which, by extension, is why those groups are marginalized to an extent that autistic actors, who casting directors might not ever realize are autistic, are not.
someone go to Strasburg’s grave and tell himHE WAS WRONG /s
I think Alec Baldwin is more than qualified…. a fat little piggie told me while ducking a cell phone.
I’m autistic. This whole controversy is dumb. Non-autistic people can play autistic people all they want. Sia makes a good point that the character in the film is (mostly) non-verbal. It’s very unlikely that someone with profound, non-verbal, autism could have played a part that, seemingly, requires lots of choreographed dancing and, possibly, some singing.Sure, she could have gotten someone with aspergers to do it, but honestly, I don’t see how that’s any less offensive. People with aspergers don’t have the same experiences as non-verbal people with autism, so I don’t see how that would be any better.That said, based on the trailer, people should be skeptical that autism is treated realistically in it. If anything, it may deserve to be criticized for being maudlin, sappy, and one-dimensional. However, we need to wait to see it before we do that.
Your comment has made my day – thank you!! And I will work as much as I can to forward the goal of casting as many real psychopaths in roles written as psychopaths to fix this problem.
So blackface is cool with you? It’s acting, right?
You’re an extremely unintelligent person
Aaand BOOM! How many seconds went by before someone pushed the old ‘blackface is bad’ SJW button?
Congrats. You really dunked on me. I guess that’ll teach me to be born with Cerebral Palsy. You forgot to accuse me of ‘virtue signaling’ Mein Herr.
You’re an unbelievably stupid person.
Oh yeah, you’re also ‘virtue signaling’. Now if you’ll kindly hobble onto mein eisenbahn?
Why am I not surprised? 🤡
You’re right. Virtue signalling is so … 2016, and that’s just so …
It was like a solid nine hours.
long as they wuz solid!
That has nothing to do with this conversation. Try again.
In historical context? Yes.As a supplemental attribute designed to denigrate a class of people? No.Do you think portraying studied and reviewed habits of neuroatypical people is the equivalent? I’m being 100% serious here, let’s assume they’re not being played with an inherent negative attribute, just straight, by the book review of symptoms portrayed within a realistic light, is that the equivalent of blackface to you?
I think if it is we have a problem and if it isn’t we need to refine this discussion further then because there are two explicitly different arguments that are being merged together for whatever reason.
First: I tend to be a lot less judgemental with invisible illnesses. Because that’s the thing about invisible illnesses, it could be anyone. Now that I have cleared that up.. I said all of this elsewhere but it applies here. >> [q] Autistic people should have the same professional opportunities as anyone else. Obviously. But there are other factors at play that go into casting someone.[/q] Yeah. But think about it this way. How often do you see disabled actors given roles where their characters disability is not the main focus? And furthermore, I’m not an actor, but I don’t think that an autistic or wheelchair using person can show up for open casting calls when they’re looking for a neurotypical able-bodied person.[q]Was Daniel Day-Lewis the wrong choice for My Left Foot because he doesn’t actually have CP? [/q] Yes. I have Cerebral Palsy. Do you know how it feels to have people applauding somebody’s portrayal of a disability and yet give me looks for being out in public? Or quietly looking around to make sure my “Handler” is with me?Call it what you want, but I call it Braceface.
You call it a kid’s cartoon show? You’re going to have to elaborate on that point.
Also, I think we need to stop pretending we’re all the same in this argument. If you can’t run a 4.4 40 you’re not going to the NFL. If you have a mental disability/cognitive difficulty you’re handicapped and we should help you live and thrive but in the same breath we can’t ask society to bend over backwards to give you more roles in Hollywood in the way that isn’t built on representation as a factor. The blunt reality is we have a surplus of talent and people who don’t fit the normative mold get left out in the cold in this model. We shouldn’t stop autistic or CP suffering engineers from doing their job so long as the accommodation is reasonable but handing out prime and high-income acting roles is always more difficult. Should Zeigler play an autistic woman? Maybe, depends on the level of function here. The problem is that the line between ‘we want to be seen and heard’ and ‘we want plum jobs’ is a difficult one to walk.
>> You call it a kid’s cartoon show? You’re going to have to elaborate on that point. What are you talking about? >> Also, I think we need to stop pretending we’re all the same in this argument. If you can’t run a 4.4 40 you’re not going to the NFL. If you have a mental disability/cognitive difficulty you’re handicapped and we should help you live and thrive but in the same breath we can’t ask society to bend over backwards to give you more roles in Hollywood in the way that isn’t built on representation as a factor. What the FUCK are you talking about? I’m saying that it’s insulting to me to see Daniel Day-Lewis get awards for pretending to have my life for 2 hours. How is it “Asking Hollywood to bend over backwards for me” to have a disabled character played by a disabled actor? Would you say that to a black person?
Yeah, it’s clear you’re no longer talking about anything I’m talking about.
Have a good life.
What cartoon were you talking about? Also, if you don’t see the problem with getting Chris Hemsworth to play Stephen Hawking, you aren’t even trying to listen to me.
And if you don’t see the problem with someone with actual ALS a)portraying Stephen Hawking before his disease manifested visibly AND b) working under the conditions of a movie production schedule, I’m afraid you’re confusing Hollywood productions with playing cowboys and “indians” on the playground. It’s supposed to be a job, not a suicide method. (BTW, Hawking was portrayed by Eddie Redmayne in “Theory of Everything”)
Go on. Keep explaining disability to me.Asshole.
Go on. Keep demonstrating you believe you and you alone and no one else on planet Earth knows anything about disability.It’s hilarious when someone who knows nothing but “me, me, me, me, me” wants to lecture others on proper behavior.cf. “ I’m saying that it’s insulting to me to see Daniel Day-Lewis get awards for pretending to have my life for 2 hours.”It’s not YOUR life. Using disability to excuse your pathological narcissism is a disservice to other disabled people out there. At the end of the day, you unmasked your claims that this was about disabled actors as a bald lie.This isn’t about disabled actors, it’s about you and you alone. You can’t even conceive that other people out there have disabilities of their own that are distinct to yours.When the game studio Ninja Theory made “Hellblade: Senua’s Sacrifice”, they didn’t use an actress with psychosis. Heck, they used their own video editor. But what they did was talk extensively both with people with psychosis and with psychosis researchers to understand how the disease is being experienced, what the constants are between patients and what the variables are. And the result was pretty well received by people in similar situations – heck, they showed the game to their patient group before publication. Note GROUP.The world isn’t about you. Have fun.Asshole.
You waited a week to come back to argument just to ignore my point again.You’re just trolling now.
Hilarious, coming from a narcissistic troll whose only point is “me, me, me, me, me” It’s cute that you accuse people of ignoring your point when you are incapable of acknowledging as simple a fact as that you’re not the only person on the planet with a disability and that other people aren’t you.
So you think that Amos and Andy was okay because they weren’t trying to be authentic? I hope you realize that all I did was express my opinion about something that matters to me. If you aren’t disabled and you don’t care about cerebral palsy, why do you insist on being so hateful to me?
If this will help you sleep at night, I apologize to you and every single disabled person, living or dead, born or unborn, real or fictional, for every presuming to speak for every disabled person in this and all realities.Was that satisfying? No. Because you know I did nothing wrong but you’re still demanding things from me.
If you aren’t disabled and you don’t care about cerebral palsy, why do you insist on being so hateful to me?Right. You call people “assholes” for not fawning all over you but it’s them who are assholes. And of course, someone disagreeing with you cannot possibly have a disability or care about it.Its funny how you make every effort to demonstrate my point.
By the way, the title of the article is literallySia’s experiencing backlash over her upcoming film and isn’t handling it well at allUh-huh. Too bad that doesn’t mean what you think it means at all. But I fully understand that from your vantage point, slurs and insults, such as calling people “asshole”, like you did, is a hallmark of excellence and true competence. And thanks once more for your continued demonstration that any form of research and statistics are blasphemy in the light of your divine outrage. Do you also think that incels and gamergaters are representative for you because they raise a ruckus on the web? So I don’t know why you think I’m acting like “the Official Spokesman of the Disabled”.Never said that you’re acting like the official spokesman. Never suggested anyone authorized you to speak on their behalf. Quite the contrary.
And it’s telling you don’t recognize the difference. If there’s an article pertaining to disability, I have the absolute right to be interested and make a comment.But you don’t have a right to insult people just because they disagree with you and declare that anyone BUT you doesn’t actually have a clue and isn’t a valid source. I can’t wait for what’s next from you. Maybe you’ll accuse me of surrendering Betthany to the Nazis. :DFunny, given that you’ve been so eager to make my case for me.
I’m tired of this game. What do you want from me?I am sorry I called you an asshole. Continuing this stupid argument with you has definitely proven your point to me. You *are* an asshole, IN MY OPINION, but I will refrain from calling you that, in the name of civility. (HA!) If you want me to apologize for being disabled, or being born, I’m willing to do that if you’ll leave me alone.>> Right. You call people “assholes” for not fawning all over you but it’s them who are assholes. I said I didn’t appreciate able bodied people playing disabled people. Where you got anything else from, I’ll never know.>> And thanks once more for your continued demonstration that any form of research and statistics are blasphemy in the light of your divine outrage. You want me to present statistics about how I hated Forrest Gump because people thought it was funny to scream “RUN FORREST RUN!” at me? Well, since I can’t prove that with research, you are right.Matter of fact, you are right about all of my feelings. I will adjust them accordingly to your whims.>> Funny, given that you’ve been so eager to make my case for me. After you’ve spent a week making up my opinions and then getting mad at me for not playing along. Okay.
By the way, the title of the article is literally Sia’s experiencing backlash over her upcoming film and isn’t handling it well at allSo I don’t know why you think I’m acting like “the Official Spokesman of the Disabled”.If there’s an article pertaining to disability, I have the absolute right to be interested and make a comment. I can’t wait for what’s next from you. Maybe you’ll accuse me of surrendering Betthany to the Nazis. 😀
You’re right. I stopped with the jazz hands, the day I got arrested at that bus stop.
who’s doing that?RDJr in Tropic Thunder?i’m more concerned with tom cruise playing a likeable human beinghe should be sued
Russian Submarine Lives Matter?Is… is this your point?Are you saying my disability is the same as being a Lithuanian sub commander (Ramius was Lithuanian born, if you want to make this stupid point)?I’m not saying that neurotypical and able boddied people can’t try to be me, but how many times does the world say I can be them?Learn some empathy or just shut the fuck up. Both make the world a better place.
I’m not saying that neurotypical and able boddied people can’t try to be me, but how many times does the world say I can be them?Learn some empathy or just shut the fuck up. Both make the world a better place.It’s funny how you tell people to “learn some empathy” while almost denying the plausibility of empathy as a concept. Empathy, incidentally, is a big part of many acting methods.Your own experience is your own experience. You want to talk empathy, start by acknowledging it is a singular experience and may or may not be what others with the same atypical condition experience. Someone who talks with a host of different people with a certain condition can get a more complex picture than someone who puts emphasis on their personal experience.And the whole “neurotypical” thing – any kind of genius isn’t neurotypical. Quite the contrary. And yet people with substantially above-average IQs are constantly played by regular actors. For some reasons, neither their non-neurotypical character nor their professional experience is in any way deemed a necessity to portray them. Acting is a JOB. It’s not a life. And acting has parts that are done without the camera rolling. Unless you are Klaus Kinski, being great when the camera is rolling is NOT sufficient. You have to live with the entire crew sometimes in very close quarters for an extended period where “I need to talk with someone else for a change” may not be possible. And including in situations with very limited resources and difficult logistics and tons of stress. What’s so hard about understanding that this brings about substantial extra risks that make the concern that, say, someone who can walk can pretend they can’t while someone who can’t walk simply can’t walk, a very serious concern from, e.g., a safety point? Or that someone with special needs is at risk where these needs cannot be guaranteed?
I’ll sign a waiver
That’s not how these things work.
I’m curious, did you choose to pretend you didn’t get their point for the sake of your rant, or do you legitimately not understand what they’re getting at?
I think part of it is the movie clearly is doing the caricature of Autism type story as an excuse to make some wacky trippy crap.
Yeah, but wouldn’t you have to have seen the movie to know that? Most people talking here have not.
The trailer was enough for me.
You mean the movie you haven’t seen?
It was an interesting choice to completely undercut your own argument with your last sentence
What’s you problem with someone studying in Tokyo for a year to get down “the Japanese lifestyle” and then putting tape on their eyes to portray a Japanese person in a role?That’s not an issue either, right? Or is it? How is your line drawn?
The tape on the eyes is what would be wrong. When AoT cast a whole city of Germans with an all-Japanese cast, none of the Japanese actors felt that they had to tape their eyes in or do anything t their eyes. They just acted their roles and you don’t even think about it during the movie.
and he was never a spy IRLso…..FAKEfucking children.
Oh, Mike. We can always rely on you for the most Boomer take in any given comment section.
I wonder what people would say about the casting of Russel Crowe if A Beautiful Mind were being cast today. I must admit that I cannot stand Russel Crowe or anything he’s done. But the film won Best Picture 2002 and I can’t argue with that. Should the studio have hired a schizophrenic actor? I can’t imagine the logistics of putting that film together if they had. No one wants to hear that they suffer limitations. Yet movie acting is so much harder and more demanding than most people think. Impossibly long working hours, sudden changes in scheduling (and everything else), rough conditions, fussy directors who demand take after take after take, difficult co-stars. It isn’t a career for the faint of heart. Anyone who pursues this craft will need a ton of patience and the ability to deal with people who are already “mental”. How many ‘Teams’ would be necessary to make sure the schizophrenic (or autistic) actor doesn’t come to harm?? This Hollywood Purity Test needs some serious revision.
Any way you slice it, this looks bad for Sia. But it’s a strange thing, which disabilities are advocated for in Hollywood. The Witches was raked over the coals for monsters with hands resembling people with limb differences, but Riz Ahmed’s portrayal of a hearing impaired man is lauded. I don’t know enough about any of this to offer an insightful opinion, so I won’t, but it’s a conversation worth having: why is it okay to portray some disabilities, but not others?
Well, I’m sure there’ll be some uproar gainst Riz once they hear of it.
I can’t believe you went there
I can’t believe he beat me to it.
Take your damn star. I had to walk away from my laptop because I was laughing so hard.
You bastard *
Imagine My Left Foot coming out today.
Wow. Good call, and I can only imagine the backlash about Daniel Day Lewis playing that role.
Fucking Lewis is such a ‘method’ asshole I’m surprised he didn’t smash his own legs so he could be in character at all times.
Somebody here once pointed out that if Day Lewis insisted on being addressed as “Mr. President” when playing Lincoln, that he really should have taken a bullet at the end of production, so his, um, ‘dedication’ was somewhat selective … I never saw why he thought he was so Great … No Phillip Seymour Hoffman. Perhaps he could come out of retirement and play Phil. Might learn a thing or two …
“Dear boy, why don’t you just try…acting?”
Did Macaulay Culkin get any of this shit for his role in Saved?
I would hope your left foot would feel seen and supported for it’s brave choice to speak it’s truth about who it is and who it loves.
Can’t even imagine it. I’m not a big fan of Day-Lewis but that was a truly amazing performance. I didn’t even know it was him until the credits rolled. Film makers will always be heavily criticised for some of their choices, to be sure. Many of them want to do ‘art’ which can include breaking all of the rules (and political etiquette). Looking at the trailer, I have to agree. It doesn’t look that great (but then I started thinking about Rocketman and its subjective aesthetic?) Six months from now we probably will all have forgotten about this. But no one will ever convince me that Sia isn’t a person with great compassion. She has had to deal with some mighty demons of her own.
Had to be tough for that foot to stay in the closet all this time.
The criticism of The Witches focused on the movie invoking the trope of limb differences as a marker of monstrosity or evil. It wasn’t that Anne Hathaway doesn’t have limb differences.
The Riz Ahmed movie, as far as I know, doesn’t connect hearing impairment to any negative personality traits. I think deaf characters should be played by deaf actors when possible because the way they interact and perceive the world is so fundamentally different from how hearing persons do. And no matter how good you are at acting, you can’t trick yourself into not hearing and also having lived for x # of years without hearing. But a hearing impaired person, a person who has normal hearing and then loses it over time, would seem to be fine for a hearing actor.A separate issue Hollywood has is its tendency to fetishize performances that mimic physical disability (and its simultaneous lack of effort to cast or support disabled actors in any roles).
I was considering the context of Ahmed’s role and I think you’re right, but that was just an example from this week. How about Hush, which had an hearing abled actor playing a woman deaf since early childhood that was equally, if not more, acclaimed. With your point about disability being portrayed negatively, is there any indication that’s the case for Sia’s film?I appreciate your points. I think they might give me even more questions about why some disabilities seem to be fair game for portrayal and not others.
“hearing abled”? That means “you can hear with your ears”, right?
Do we even need PC titles for regular people?
Yeah, we do. What does “regular people” mean? Its why we say neurotypical and not normal brained. There is no normal/regular
Not here, there isn’t.
I’m an actor myself so I have to fight my first instinct to be defensive and say “well that’s the entire point of acting: to embody someone other than yourself.” I don’t know if anyone has a fully formed understanding of when it’s okay and when it’s not.
Obviously we don’t want actors doing blackface, as folks agree that’s racist (and denies job opportunities to actors who are actually Black). There’s also colorism within communities of color, so I’ve seen people demand that historical figures with dark skin by played by dark skinned people of the same race (Zoe Saldana as Nina Simone was an example of this controversy).And we don’t want cis actors playing trans parts for similar reasons (except it plays into transphobia instead of racism).Then disability is such a broad category. And autism is more correctly labeled as “neurodivergence” rather than “disability”…There actually was criticism of Hush when it came out—it just wasn’t as big news because it was a smaller movie and it didn’t have Sia attached to it. https://www.indiewire.com/2020/10/mike-flanagan-hush-deafness-in-horror-1234593748/ Mike Flanagan and Kate Siegel both say they would cast a deaf actress today.I don’t think Sia’s movie portrays autism negatively—that’s definitely not her intention, at least. It may end up tokenizing it e.g. “look at this special child! Isn’t she precious! She’s autistic but she loves music, how inspiring!” instead of treating her as a person first, with autism not her defining trait.
The autistic people I know absolutely find Sia’s portrayal to be infantilizing because it’s based more on non-autistic opinions about it. As one person on Twitter noted, meltdowns are an autistic people at their absolute worst. It’s not even close to the whole picture.
no, autism is a disability and those of us who are autistic have no trouble using that word, it’s abled people who think “disabled” is some kind of slur. i’m autistic and i’m disabled–use accurate labels, please. and none of this “special abilities” bullshit either, also ableist.
So…many…goddamned…stars…
And Prince Humperdinck had six fingers on one hand. EVIL, I tells ya!
While I’m normally on a case-by-case basis when it comes to these controversies, I strongly agree with your point about deaf actors. The one of note I think of is Marlee Matlin who’s been in a ton of stuff, and she blows me away. It’s just great to see.
In the horror movie Hush, the actress isn’t really disabled, so her not being able to hear her killer is just the gimmick, and it does feel “fake” in a way. There were still those in the disabled community who liked the film, so I guess it’s not a big deal, but how much better would it be if they got a real deaf actress? In A Quiet Place, the child did seem more authentic, and it made sense when we found out she was really deaf. As you note, its a fundamentally different perception of the world, and not only did it add to the plot, but the entire cast had to learn to how to Sign, and they bonded over it. Again, I can’t explain it, but it’s just great to see.
Outrage is a viral phenomenon. How its meted out is not based on reason or any coherent system, its a trend that runs away with itself just like the ice bucket challenge or Kony 2012. It’s been public knowledge for 10 years that Mark Whalberg was involved in actual, literal violent hate crimes when he was younger, and no one cares. Mike Tyson went to jail for aggravated rape – not just a regular old rape but violent, aggravated rape -and today he’s considered a sympathetic character and a media darling who gets cameos in movies, appearances on Rogan, and his own cartoon. There’s no logic behind any of this cancel culture mobbing. Someone gets outraged, and sometimes it catches a wave and other times it doesn’t.
I appreciate all the examples you bring up, especially Kony. Jeez. That exploded all over and then…nothing. That’s when I realized jumping on the bandwagon was essentially pointless.
These comments are so enlightening in that they show the person making it is cynical enough to think that everyone secretly cares about problems that don’t affect them as little as they do.
Sometimes I just want to pinch your cheeks, you adorable little social justice munchkin.
One of these days you are going to realize that people who don’t have the same perspective as you are real and actually matter
You keep teaching me squirt, one day I’ll come around.
Nah life will do the job better than I could
Here’s my issue with disabilities in the media. How often do you see disabled actors given roles where their characters disability is not the main focus? And furthermore, I’m not an actor, but I don’t think that an autistic or wheelchair using person can show up for open casting calls when they’re looking for a neurotypical able-bodied person.An able-bodied actor can play a disabled character, but it’s very rare to see a disabled actor playing a role that was originally written for an able-bodied person.
You’re going to be in trouble for that.
This is a good point. I think the filmmakers decide it would detract from the scene. There’s no reason why a character can’t just have Parkinson’sor be in a wheelchair without anyone needing to acknowledge it, but I think people have this idea it would be distracting or something. You start to see it done more nowadays though, which is good.
I can think of only 4 offhand, and three of them depends on whether you consider dwarfism a disability. You have Marlee Matlin, who long ago started playing “Characters who happen to be deaf” rather than always playing a character defined by their deafness. Danny Devito, Meredith Eaton, and Linda Hunt all have forms of dwarfism, and it never comes up for Devito, doesn’t always for Eaton, and has never come up on Linda Hunt’s late career resurgence as Hetty Lange on NCIS:LA. Last time I saw Eaton she was playing a badass leader on some CBS L.E.O. show, and Hetty is the most scarily badass person in the NCIS-verse besides maybe Gibbs or Ziva.
Considering her hair and fashion choices, what doesn’t look bad for Sia?
i’m sure there are a plethora of stories floating about hollywood; it’s whether $omeone decide$ if it’s worth making, i gue$$. that’s probably why some films take 20 years to get made.
(the cynic in me pictures film executives deciding in a boardroom what disability/minority experience is so hot right now)
i’m not a fan of cancelling a film before seeing it, but i don’t mind people getting outraged or whatever over things like this. if it weren’t for folks getting in a huff, the same bland people would be making the same bland stories in the same terrible way.
That moment where they raked Anne Hatheway and the Witches felt like a reach, I mean, we’re talking about the tiniest fraction of a population and countless monsters and aliens have opted for this.
In a weird contrast, are TMNT heroes for only having 2 fingers in that world?
The oppression olympics tire me out. I’m an a special class of privilege and i’m well aware of that but leveling the playing field for entry is the biggest thing we can do for so many and representation matters but sometimes these fights feel more about personalized economic situations than a deeper class identity (i.e.: Autistic actors have few roles because they’re literally incapable of doing things normative people can do but when you choose to do something you know has limited capacity to support so many, you’re walking yourself into a problem). I remember hanging out with this awesome dwarf actor who took to doing vaudeville style work in New Orleans when I lived there. He admitted that he preferred more serious theater but the reality was he made a living doing something he enjoyed and his size was his benefit. As he viewed it, if he was 5’10” he would be mostly in community theater or working a regular desk job, here, he could make a living because he had a niche in a really hard business. It doesn’t excuse diversity but in an industry with too much talent and not enough roles, being a limited player is about picking your battles and knowing your niche.
“oppression Olympics”Fuck off.
Thanks, i’ll be sure to make note of that at the next quarterly meeting.
Okay, funny comeback.
I kind of agree. Life is about “picking your battles and knowing your niche,” and that’s true for people with disabilities or differences as much/more than anyone else. Having said that I’m sympathetic to some of the frustration here. Going by the facts set forth in the post, it seems like Sia has a friend who’s autistic, and on that basis, kind of appointed herself as a standard-bearer. And her responses to criticism smack a little bit of “don’t you understand what I’ve done for you people?”
I’m not here to defend Sia, her statements were flatout awful. I think if anything, the argument is a weird two-front affair where some are discussing representation as a whole and some are asking why aren’t more X people cast in Y roles. Especially when we already have a surplus supply of actors so much so that it’s a trope and a tragedy.
… Okay. Enough. Ladies and Gentleman of The AV Club, you don’t need The AV Club any more, for here, is the Great Ryan George, on which disabilities are the right disabilities (Oh, and what’s wrong with every high-concept film you love):… All done. Goodnight.
I love Ryan George and I love Pitch Meetings! And I laughed out loud when I watched this one and he said that using autism was ok because its gonna be called the next stage in human evolution! Hollywood is such a sh!tshow when it comes to portraying anyone differently abled!!
Riz Ahmed is brown. Wokescolds wouldn’t dare attack a brown man for being insensitive, especially not one as outspoken on race issues as Riz Ahmed. It may sound reductive, but that absolutely is the reason, whether they’ll admit it or not.
I think the #1 thing you need to consider is who is giving the accolades. Non-disabled/nuerotypical people are often quick to laud “realistic” performances that actually… aren’t good. And disability advocates DO call that out. But they have to make it through the din of people all talking over them about it. And that can be very hard to do, especially if the community of individuals with that disability is smaller, or less inclined to use the same digital platforms.FWIW, Twitter has been a tool for disability community communication like nothing has before. This is part of why you’re hearing more about it in recent years – because you can collectively raise issues into trending territory much easier when it’s the disability community overall talking about it, and not just, say, people with CP.
She cast one of the most impressive dancers I have seen in the lead role of a dance movie. I can’t take the face Ziegler is making through the whole trailer, but she’s a stunning performer but likely not a stunning actor. This is like asking why somebody who isn’t a wide receiver can’t play wide receiver. Or like asking why somebody blind isn’t playing somebody blind if the role calls for flashbacks where they are not blind. You have to cast to the skill in a musical.That said: Autism Speaks is evil. The fact that she doesn’t know this is a really bad sign.
I was thinking the same thing! While her acting portrayal of a person with autism may seem an affront to autistic actors, she was largely hired for her dancing ability. Considering how physically limited the character she is portraying, it would appear extremely difficult do get an actor in that capacity to also have the immense dancing skills of Maddie Ziegler.
I’d guess the part was written specifically because Sia wanted to make a movie showcasing Ziegler’s dancing, which would mean an autistic actor never would have been an option.
In which case I think the objection would be using autism as a prop and they probably should have gone in a different direction in writing the character in the first place.
I mean…think about how offensive it would be if Music was played by an autistic actor and every time she actually danced they had it be Maddie Ziegler, like she’s not herself in her fantasies…that’s way worse. I’m sure there is somebody waiting to say that even wishing you could dance is ableist, as much as I oppose ableism I can’t help but find this a bit unreasonable and exhausting
There’s also the fact that the target audience for this movie knows who Maddie Ziegler is. If you’re going to the trouble of making a movie, might as well cast people who will sell tickets.
Honestly that’s the point that concerns me most here – the involvement of Autism Speaks. I believe her when she says they arrived after the fact and didn’t influence things, but still, fuck those guys in particular.
There’s apparently receipts showing that she was alerted to Autism Speaks back in April.
Autism Speaks sucks and part of this is BECAUSE they are by far the most well-known autism-related group in the US. Many special education programs use materials created or donated by AS and they have large in-roads and good PR among people who aren’t tuned in to autism-specific issues. Just because we are aware of the problematic or even dangerous nature of a group or individual doesn’t mean someone who is less plugged in to the topic has any reason to know. They’re like PETA. If you know anything about animal welfare, you know they’re evil, but if you’re coming in from outside that informational circle all you’ve heard is their own PR that they’re the number one group interested in animal welfare. Once you’re involved with them they’re going to keep telling you they’re the best and those other groups don’t know what they’re talking about. I don’t blame anyone for not knowing. I sigh and realize I’m going to once again have to have the conversation about why your new friends aren’t as nice as you think they are.
My heart has always been in the right place, says infamous white savior (Siavior?)
who will savior soul?
The PC police is going to destroy us all by. Sometimes I wish a huge asteroid would just put us out of our misery.
Holy fucking Christ, people. Do you know who didn’t accurately portray Alexander Hamilton? Lin-Manuel Miranda. Do you you know who didn’t accurately portray Ed Warren? Josh Lucas. I could do this for hours. It’s called acting. This kind of shit is so fucking played out. Bryan Cranston was cast to play a quadriplegic because he’s Bryan fucking Cranston. There are NO quadriplegic actors alive who are as good as Bryan Cranston. Maybe take a minute to consider that there’s an effort being made to bring attention to the hardships that a given condition results in — the funding needed for more research or support of individuals suffering from a given situation; the awareness it can bring (I don’t remember anyone complaining that not everyone performing the ice bucket challenge didn’t have ALS, but that ended up having positive results). Obviously, I haven’t seen the movie, but this self-righteous bullshit is really played out (again). I’m all for differently abled people to have a chance to shine (go over to Uproxx and read Brian Grubb’s stuff — he’s better than anyone on this site, and I’m not being paid to say so), but give me a fucking break with this holier-than-thou garbage. This is clickbait bullshit.
There are NO quadriplegic actors alive who are as good as Bryan Cranston.Hard to prove/disprove when those actors aren’t given opportunities. And especially when disabled/differently abled actors are usually relegated ONLY to those roles in the first place.
Fair. I’m more saying that Bryan Cranston is better than most actors, regardless of able-bodiness (if that’s a word) and that I’m tired of the self-righteous tone that some of the writers here take, as if we’re all assholes for not immediately agreeing with them even before we read what they say.
I agree about the tone of the “talent” on the Kinja AV staff. I do not come here for unbiased reporting, but this has pretty much turned into a soapbox and if you don’t agree you bad/shamed/cancelled.
As good as Cranston might be, you are suggesting here that he is good because he is playing a quadriplegic. Which is a little messed up, no? I like Cranston a lot. But maybe we should really just stop using “good” as an unqualified marker of value and skill. Cranston is a charismatic able-bodied white dude: he is good at doing what our culture expects white dudes to do, with some extra flavoring of gravitas and menace. (Which is maybe redundant, lol?) None of that necessarily means him playing a quadriplegic would in any way demonstrate how “good” he is beyond being good at once again playing himself with some added technical adjustments.
I didn’t say he was good because he played a quadriplegic — just the opposite. He was asked (afforded) the opportunity to do so because he’s showed he can bring empathy and caring to a broad variety of roles. Sure he was often menacing in Breaking Bad, but people still rooted for a monster like Walter White because he was able to bring those qualities to the role.And, yeah, “good” should be used as an “unqualified marker of value and skill” because that’s pretty close to the dictionary definition of the word. You’re the one adding qualifiers like “white” and “able-bodied.” Good is good regardless of any other consideration — this is precisely why I mentioned Brian Grubb at Uproxx, who will likely spend his life in a wheelchair (barring medical miracle) and is one of the best pop culture writers out there. But I guess this is the AV Club and people need to make sure their virtues are signalled.
No, I’m suggesting that Cranston is one of the best actors in the world, as proven over and over again, not that he’s good because he’s playing a quadriplegic. The colour of his skin has nothing to do with what I’m saying, by the way. Comments like this just feed the frustration I initially expressed — you’re virtue signalling the way that so many writers on the site do.
or you could, you know, maybe listen to disabled people who are fed up with NEVER seeing disabled actors onscreen?but no, I guess we’re just a bunch of complainy SJWs.
If you’d actually been reading my posts on this topic you’d note that I pointed out that Cranston fought hard for an actor with cerebral palsy to play Walt Jr. and I think that’s a good thing. Another commenter made the point that Hollywood executives aren’t going to invest their money betting on an unknown quadriplegic when Bryan Fucking Cranston might play the role and draw more money. Speaking of drawing money, again, I’ll go to the ice bucket challenge. In case you’re not aware, ALS was originally termed “Lou Gehrig’s Disease” That’s because attaching it to Lou Gehrig drew a ton of attention to the condition, the same way the ice bucket challenge and Steve Gleason did. (I’m talking down to you here because I’m an asshole). The point is, as AGAIN, I said in another post, is there more value in having a top name actor portray someone with a disability and drawing attention to, and funding to help with, that disability versus hiring someone with the disability so that we don’t have to read obnoxious AV Club articles and comments?The writers here DO tend to be “complainy SJWs,” and so do a lot of the commenters, which was my point from the start. I’m 1000000000% behind giving differently abled people a chance (for example, I think John Krasinski demanding a deaf actress play his daughter in A Quiet Place is awesome). What I’m trying to say in the original post (can’t be sure how much of it you actually read) is that the tone the writers on this site take is almost Tucker Carlson/Sean Hannity-esque, in that if you don’t already agree you should get the fuck out.
you’re a Bryan Cranston fan, I get it
I think the better point is that movies are very, very expensive and the people putting the money up want people to go to them. Which means casting someone people know so they buy tickets. The option is making a very low budget movie with a quadriplegic actor no one has heard of, in order to hedge your bets, or casting Cranston. Hollywood producers aren’t spending their money on charity, they’re capitalists, and there needs to be a level of realism brought to these issues.
People make the same argument about trans actors and actors of color too. But how are we ever going to have high-profile actors from those groups if no one ever gives them an opportunity. There are no famous trans/autistic/Native American/quadriplegic/whatever else actors, so Hollywood won’t cast them but there are no famous trans/autistic/Native American/quadriplegic/whatever else actors because Hollywood hasn’t cast them in the past. It’s a self-perpetuating cycle and a bullshit excuse.
But there’s no overarching body to deal with this. It’s all based on individuals putting up their own money to fund a movie. If your choice is between helping fund a movie about a trans person starring an unknown lead actor, or the next Scarlett Johannsen movie, you’re going to pick the Johannsen movie every time. Because most individuals aren’t risking their capital and livelihood just to do the right thing. The answer is actually quite simple – trans/autistic/native american/quadriplegic/whatever people can put up their own capital to make these movies the right way starring possible breakout actors. No one is stopping them. That is, if they’re willing to accept the risk that comes with doing so.
Ok so we’re just pretending that marginalized people have the same resources and distribution opportunities as major motion picture studios
Let’s both pitch in a few bucks.
What recognitions said. Also, your argument presumes that Scarlett Johansson has always been Scarlett Johansson. She was once an unknown actor too and someone gave her a chance. It’s not an abnormal risk to give LGBTQ actors and actors of color and actors with a disability those some kinds of opportunities that white/straight/cis/abled actors are getting now. Especially when the movie is about a person from one of those demographics and is likely to be better and more realistic with a person who shares those characteristics in the role. Movies with virtual unknowns in the lead succeed every year. We’re talking about small productions, not huge blockbusters. No one is arguing that a person with cerebral palsy should replace Tom Cruise in the next Mission:Impossible. They’re arguing that you could cast an actual trans person rather than putting Eddie Redmayne in a dress in your next oscarbait biopic.
And all I’m saying is that you’re playing with other people’s chips. No one has to risk their investments just because some people think it’s the right thing to do. I just don’t hold people to that standard.
You don’t think people who have resources should use those resources to make the world a better place in some small way rather than perpetuating discrimination and encouraging negative outcomes for marginalized groups?
“Perpetuating discrimination” and “encouraging negative outcomes” are extremely debatable allegations given what we’re talking about. Did Jared Leto winning an Oscar portraying a trans women discriminate against trans people and create negative outcomes for them? That’s an absurd allegation. You’re using unfounded rhetoric as a weapon to win an argument.
Did Jared Leto winning an Oscar portraying a trans women discriminate against trans people and create negative outcomes for them?Yes. Not only did it make it harder for trans actors to get jobs in the future since it made cis men playing trans female characters more appealing both to actors and studios, but it reinforced the bigoted stereotype that trans women are just men in dresses, which puts trans lives in danger.
Sorry, but when your point is that Jared Leto’s performance put trans women in danger its hard to take you seriously. It’s an objectively idiotic statement.
I explained my reasoning too you. If you’re too stupid or too stubborn to get it, that’s on you.
“I didn’t like how Jared Leto portrayed his character and now people want to kill trans women” is like some Alex Jones level synapse misfiring.
Not at all what I said but okay.
As long as the quadriplegic actor can’t jump aside as quickly as a non-quadriplegic actor when a spotlight crashes down from the ceiling or can’t get up and run as quickly if the river they’re shooting next to has a flash flood, you’re kidding yourself.
As long as a quadriplegic actor can’t easily portray a character before the character became quadriplegic, you’re kidding yourself.
Yeah I wanna see a quadriplegic actor play Walter Wight(I do get to an extent the argument of people from X group only getting roles about the specific thing that causes them to be in that group. But there is a point past which that argument does kinda start the falter. Especially regarding conditions that may affect ones ability to act for the negative)
Can you give us a list of the jobs we are not allowed to hold, please. It would make my Indeed filter way more accurate.
I’m not suggesting that in anyway.
My thought, which probably came out wrong, was with the previous comment that disabled actors are relegated to parts that are disabled characters. Outside of extensive CGI surely that may have to be the case? Surely it’s more about there being more diversity in roles (and roles which aren’t specifically about that diversity)?
Acting jobs are less about inherent ability and more about availability. We need more data analysts than we need actors. Nobody is stopping you from chasing either but the probability of getting one or the other is significantly higher for the more broadly available position.Also, reading through the comments here it’s very much a ‘you’re denying me the opportunity to do something I want to do!’ if you’re in this group when I don’t think anybody explicitly is saying that. They’ve said logistics makes it hard to make representation equal and broad at times and I think we should have better representation.
Fine! Let’s see Rick Allen or Stephen Hawking cook all that meth clad only in a pair of panties.
But should we? I mean, in a world where everything is perfect and right, obviously….But the question is should we go out if we need a paraplegic actor for that role and find them? How many are actively the right sex, age, race, and have the abilities to fit the role?
This is where I feel like i’m clearly callous but I find in truly small industries and let’s be fair, acting is a TINY industry when you get down to brass tacks, do we need to make sure that everybody gets a turn? I think there is a fine line to walk here with representation and working on diversity but I care more about getting black women into boardrooms at WB and Universal than making sure sub-2% groups of society that are getting a chance at a very limited set of jobs when for many of them they’re still not getting the basic human rights and care they need in the more broader social settings.
Fair enough. That deaf, dumb and blind kid, sure did play a mean pinball.
… Oh, and I look all white, but my dad was black. The Who covered all this stuff years ago, but should now be called ‘The What’.
Bryan Cranston is widely recognised as being one of the best actors in the world. There are only a handful of people in the giant set ‘Actors’ who are in his class. The notion that one of those people also belongs to the infinitesimally tiny subset ‘Quadriplegic actors’ is…well, let’s just say it’s statistically rather unlikely.
Unfortunately, it’s simply a fact that certain people can’t do certain things. A little person (I don’t understand why that’s the preferred term…I feel like it comes of as demeaning, but that’s not my choice to make) couldn’t play John Wick. At the same time, a 7’6″ person couldn’t play Tyrion Lannister. Hollywood is making progress with things like racial and trans representation (which I know is not the same, but if the issue is who gets a chance, it’s relevant), but some things literally can’t be overcome. Jenny Slate can drop her gig with Big Mouth because she feels her Black character should be portrayed by a Black person. Tom Cruise can’t drop his gig with Mission: Impossible because he wants an amputee to have a chance.Regardless, my point is more about the self-righteousness of so many of the writers on this site. I’m all for giving everyone a shot, but I’m not at all for the holier-than-thou tone taken around here.
Dude…it’s OK if you’re black or crippled or queer or trans and you’re playing a white regular guy. Its only bad if you’re white and regular playing anything else. Now you know.
“White regular guy”Yikes
doing white regular stuff
“white and regular” LOL
There are NO quadriplegic actors alive who are as good as Bryan Cranston. How would you know that, when the moment people show up to audition in wheelchairs, casting directors turn them away because they don’t want to go through the effort of putting ramps on sets? Yes, this literally fucking happens. “Holy Fucking Christ,” indeed. Care to reconsider the comment?
Also, white people don’t have problems with representation in media. LMM playing one is just fine.
It’s interesting you use Bryan Cranston as an example considering, you know… Walter White Jr.
From what I understand, Cranston himself pushed really hard to ensure an actor that actually has cerebral palsy was cast. Kinda part of why I used that particular example.I can foresee the argument that him then going and playing a quadriplegic is hypocritical, but I would suggest an actor like RJ Mitte would never have had the opportunity otherwise and that giving differently abled people at least a shot at the audition process is a step in the right direction.
I used Cranston as an example because he got some shit for playing a quadriplegic. He also was the one who insisted that the actor playing Walt Jr. be someone who actually had cerebral palsy.
Okay, so this is massively stupid. An actor’s job is, quite by definition, to portray someone/thing they’re not. Should Dustin Hoffman not have been cast in Rain Man? Was Daniel Day-Lewis the wrong choice for My Left Foot because he doesn’t actually have CP? I don’t think these films are any less effective or sensitive toward the people they’re depicting because of it. I have OCD, but I would be totally insane to declare that only people with OCD should be able to play characters with OCD. It’s beyond limiting.
Autistic people should have the same professional opportunities as anyone else. Obviously. But there are other factors at play that go into casting someone.
This is where I’m at as an autistic person. I completely get the argument with race-washing, and casting cis people in trans roles, but with autism I just don’t understand it. As long as it’s sensitive towards the people it’s portraying, and those people are consulted rather than just being a caricature, I have no issue with an autistic character being played by a neurotypical person.
That being said, Sia’s reaction here has been horrendous and coupled with the inclusion of Autism Speaks does indicate a lack of interest in the actual people that she’s chosen to portray.
(having now seen the trailer, this does not seem like a sensitive, non-caricature portrayal of autism)
Did anyone give Dustin Hoffman $hit when he played an autistic man in Rain Man……………….and won an Oscar?
It’s almost like our awareness of things has changed over 30 fucking things.
It’s literally one of the sources for the controversial line from Tropic Thunder.
I saw a Bollywood movie, Barfi!, that treated neuroatypical people with more sensitivity. Okay, Priyanka Chopra’s performance did, in any case (Ranbeer Kapoor was too busy trying to be Charlie Chaplin!) — it was her leveling up as an actor with a performance so convincing, I didn’t even know it was her until the director stuck the blooper reel over the end credits and she broke character once or twice….
Yea as someone with a personal and family history of mental illness, I’m really uncomfortable with mental illness being treated in the same way that race and gender are.Race and gender are inherently outward and public. Mental health is not. Autism is a treatable behavioral disorder, not a socio-cultural grouping. Most people with autism don’t want to broadcast it or be identified primarily by it anymore than they have to. So the idea of autistic “representation” implies that autism is a “type” rather than a health issue.
it doesn’t seem to me that having an conditionmakes you able to relate a story as an Actorthat’s a SKILL that is perfected from use
Really, the big problem is Maddie Ziegler is pretty terrible at anything that isn’t dancing. So I’m feeling like I’ll get Simple Jack flashbacks when she has to act out autism.
So she got pissy at the people attacking her. They were pretty damn rude. As for Autism Speaks, well, that could be a genuine confusion. People can get brainwashed.
i like bill burr’s bit about this“how’d you prepare for the role?”
“well first i was born with a degenerative disease…”
>> Autistic people should have the same professional opportunities as anyone else. Obviously. But there are other factors at play that go into casting someone. Yeah. But think about it this way. How often do you see disabled actors given roles where their characters disability is not the main focus? And furthermore, I’m not an actor, but I don’t think that an autistic or wheelchair using person can show up for open casting calls when they’re looking for a neurotypical able-bodied person.>> Was Daniel Day-Lewis the wrong choice for My Left Foot because he doesn’t actually have CP?Yes. I have Cerebral Palsy. Do you know how it feels to have people applauding somebody’s portrayal of a disability and yet give me looks for being out in public? Or quietly looking around to make sure my “Handler” is with me? Call it what you want, but I call it Braceface.
Physical disabilities are a bit different as those are very often very visually apparent, and the roles that the actors with those disabilities get tend to get limited to roles focused on the disability as a result. Autism isn’t like that. Sir Anthony Hopkins, Dan Aykroyd, Rosanne Barr, and Stephanie Davis are all actors who are on the spectrum, and they have rarely if ever portrayed characters who are explicitly on the spectrum. Some of your arguments have some merit, especially when it comes to physical disabilities, but autistic actors are not pigeonholed to only autistic roles. To argue that they are is flat out false.
>> Sir Anthony Hopkins, Dan Aykroyd, Rosanne Barr, and Stephanie Davis are all actors who are on the spectrumSo you’re trying to argue with me that these people are disabled?
No, I’m not, and I’m not even sure what you mean by that. You claimed that neuroatypical people are never cast in neurotypical roles. I listed a fair number of neuroatypical actors who were mostly cast in neurotypical roles (or at least roles where the character in question was never explicitly stated to be on the spectrum). Whether you consider that disabled or not is not really the issue. All of them, to my knowledge, have been diagnosed. Since autism is what’s being talked about here, that’s what’s important to this discussion.Sir Anthony Hopkins has talked about having problems in social situations. Dan Aykroyd said he had immense difficulty growing up with both Aspergers and Tourette’s. Rosanne Barr also has brain damage (not meant as an insult, she literally does from a car accident as a teenager) and is clearly suffering from some sort of mental health issue (and is an awful person, but that’s not important here). I would at the very least say that Barr has some immense difficulties in her personal life. Stephanie Davis has had very public mental health issues that she is very open about that while not entirely coming from autism, the autism has probably played a factor.Somebody doesn’t have to be completely unable to perform in an aspect of life to be considered disabled. All disabled means is that the person in question has difficulties in an area of life that comes much easier to most people, whether this is from physical issues or a different structuring of the brain. I have been diagnosed with Pervasive Developmental Disorder (a form of autism) since Kindergarten. If I believed that my workplace was discriminating against me because of my diagnosis, I could sue them for disability discrimination, so at least some institutions would label me as disabled. I also had immense difficulties in many areas growing up, and was nearly expelled in second grade for reasons that I won’t go into here, but were very much related to my autism. That being said, I was president of a club in college, have gamemastered at two large gaming conventions, and I’m currently working on a PhD in physics. I am arguably very successful.I don’t know if you were meaning to imply because those people were successful in their fields that they can’t be disabled, but that’s how the question came across, as you seem to be implying that those people aren’t disabled, when they very arguably are, albeit more mildly than some, and just because their issues aren’t apparent to outsiders, doesn’t mean that they are not there. If you talked to me in person, you might think that I’m a bit quirky, but otherwise I don’t come across as that different than the average person. However, I’m incapable of making eye contact, have immense problems trying to read the emotions of others, have no clue how to flirt, am completely oblivious if someone is hitting on me, and many common social interactions fill me with immense anxiety. I am still impaired in many areas to significant degrees, although most people wouldn’t be able to tell by just talking with me.I would like to reiterate that I think your points about physical disabilities are very valid. Actors with those conditions very often do get pigeonholed into only disabled roles, when there are plenty of roles that could be played by either fully physically abled or disabled actors. And abled actors often get applauded for portraying physically disabled characters when those are the only roles that physically disabled actors could get, but they don’t even get those. Additionally, based off of your original post, you have experience about living with a physical disability that I do not, so I would not even begin to argue with you about what that is like or entails. However, you made claims about what it is like to have autism that were just plain inaccurate. If you believe that autism is only the very severe cases where the person in question is unable to live their life unaided, that is not accurate. Those cases certainly exist, but it is not the full picture. I guarantee that, statistically speaking, you have probably interacted with a person on the spectrum at some point that you never realized was on the spectrum. Just because you did not notice, however, doesn’t mean that they weren’t in some way disabled.
You put a LOT of words in my mouth.
To be fair, I wasn’t quite sure what you meant by your reply, other than it seemed to imply that the people that I was speaking about weren’t disabled, which left me trying to figure out why one would believe that. If I misinterpreted anything you said, I apologize.
I know quite a few people who are either autistic or on the spectrum. My point was basically that autism in many ways can be an invisible illness. It is not quite as visible as me and my wheelchair.
I think there was a serious miscommunication here, because I agree and that was a major component of my my main point.
So they should get some one a little less retarded, that can handle filming 12 hour days and take direction to act like they’re more retarded for the movie? Lol
Roseanne is on the…..SUDDENLY IT ALL MAKES SENSE
I really wouldn’t hold her up as an ideal example or anything, but she is. I mean, we are certainly capable of being assholes like anyone, but most of us aren’t…that. She also clearly has a lot of other issues as well.
Yup. It is amazing that neurotypical and able bodied people think that when they make these points it is the first time in our lives it has been made, and we should be in awe of their big brains.I wonder if they go up to Mike in accounting and explain what it was like for Mike to grow up African American.**Mike is black from England.
My issue with it is so many times disabilities are portrayed as over the top caricatures to invoke emotion. Yes disabilities suck but I’d much rather see more people in films and TV with them living normal lives with only the occasional hiccup. We need less Dustin Hoffman Rain men and more Danny Pudi Abeds
If only that were true in real life
I wanna see the blind lady trying to find the Cheerios in the grocery store!
I remember when people were upset about Bryan Cranston being cast in the upside.To which the same people defending Sia here said “Oh but there isn’t a high profile star in a wheelchair like Cranston!”It’s the same fucking game they always play. They argue there aren’t any “stars” with those qualities to help studios draw…but then they also complain when studios cast people who aren’t neurotypical or live with a disability so those stars never get made.It’s the complaint under-represented groups have had for YEARS. They can’t breakthrough because there’s no roles/jobs for them to even get started.
Yeah and these people owe you something in making their art right ??
they way these kids think: YESday-lewis should have played one of the doctorsthey think movies are documentaries
YES. Right on. 10000% this.
I admit I once openly stared at a very disabled-looking guy in a wheelchair. Only I was in Cambridge and the guy was Stephen freaking Hawking.
This hits the nail on the head.And so VERY often the accolades non-disabled actors get for their convincing depiction of disabled characters are just pandering from other non-disabled folk who don’t know better either. Because so incredibly often those depictions AREN’T convincing, at all, and people with those disabilities or their advocates clock it right away. All it is doing is giving the masses an incorrect idea of what to expect from people with that disability, and instead of increasing awareness and decreasing stigma, it can actually do the opposite. I think about that show on CW about a blind woman. I like the script. I like the characters. I like the plot. (I watched 1 season). What I don’t like is the depiction of blindness. And I can tell that the actress is trying really hard to do it right. But it isn’t, not really. Her eyes track movement in scenes, unconsciously. Which isn’t something she can help. They’re always in focus on something, even if it’s never the person she’s talking to. She moves like someone who is used to seeing, but who now can’t, would move. I think the actress is legitimately doing her best to give a correct depiction. I’m sure she’s trying really hard, and did her research. But it’s still not right. And it’s not her acting chops that are the problem, it’s the reality of her body.But now, people are expecting this to be what Blind people they meet will be like. It’s just an incredibly beautiful person, whose looks the show keeps calling attention to btw, who won’t look at you when you’re talking. It’s not prepping them for when they meet someone whose eyes are out of focus, not moving much, and potentially pointing in different directions. Whose head movements might be different because they’re naturally correcting for, say, sound instead of vision. Realistically it’s doing very little to actually address the stigma associated with meeting a Blind person for the first time, when a seeing person encounters a different physicality than what they’re used to and need to get past their discomfort about that. And don’t get me wrong, processing that discomfort is 100% their job here, so I don’t pity them about it. But I wish media would stop increasing that hurdle by giving false, sanitized, unrealistic depictions of disability.Especially when you could have just cast a disabled actor and have fixed all that for no extra cost.
>> Do you know how it feels to have people applauding somebody’s portrayal
of a disability and yet give me looks for being out in public?
No, I do not know how it feels. But would recasting Daniel Day-Lewis’ role change how people interact with you? I doubt it.
Thank you for taking the time to completely miss my point. You are either doing it maliciously or out of ignorance. I hope you are just ignorant.
Anytime I see these ridiculous culture war battles about who’s “allowed” to play certain roles I think of this clip:
Should Dustin Hoffman not have been cast in Rain Man? – Nope.
Was Daniel Day-Lewis the wrong choice for My Left Foot because he doesn’t actually have CP? – Yep.
Sir Alec Guiness was neither a Jedi nor a Nazi, yet he head the fucking nerve to play both. For money! I hope he’s sitting in the circle of hell reserved for people who committed the unforgivable sin of working.
Also, Hoffman has been called out by the MeToo’s because he may have been something of a cocksman back in the day so he’s a total piece of shit who should be locked in the same room with Frankie Shaw.
Hoffman is accused of groping and harassing multiple women, one of whom was 17 at the time. It’s fucked up to make light of that and pretend that it’s some kind of unfair attack because he got laid a lot.
I know right, it’s like who else BUT Tugg Speedman could have played Simple Jack?
Reminds me of Ian McKellen explaining how he’s not really a wizard:
Okay, so this is massively stupid. An actor’s job is, quite by definition, to portray someone/thing they’re not.This isn’t about acting, this is about representation. Sure, you could hire non-disabled actors for all the roles, but that would leave actual disabled actors without any jobs. Which, for a movie specifically about said disability, kind of seems like a dick move.You want to help autistic actors? Give them a fucking job.
I apologize if this is an ignorant question, but genuinely curious and not sure that this is even applicable to this situation. What if the autistic actors that audition just don’t fit what the director/casting person is looking for? I know having them play a disabled person adds another layer to the equation, but it often seems like there is a big to-do about hollywood people only hiring your friends, but it’s always made sense to me that you would keep hiring the people that you know can deliver what you’re looking for.
Exactly. To people like you it’s not about the actual art. Because you’re not artists. You’re a nobody whose opinion means jack all.
LOL autistic actors? would’t that be agonizing to watch? The two things sound antithetical.
That’s a good point, if not for Sia’s argument that they cast a significant amount of roles with neurodivergent actors. She did give a bunch of autistic actors jobs, but the real bone picked by the masses is about her choice of a neurotypical actor for the main role.Personally, I do think the negative reaction is a little deserved, but also a little overblown. With the caveat of not having seen it, it seems Sia’s interest in the project and portraying neurodivergent persons is part of her “art”, and if there’s compassion in her intent, it seems misplaced with her lack of awareness. I don’t think much of the central role casting; Maddie Ziegler was the little girl that’s been in a million Sia videos, so big surprise that she was cast as lead. Sia’s doing a good service of casting neurodivergent people in normalizing roles, but on the other hand Ziegler’s performance is sounding to be a disservice at the same time. Ultimately, I really don’t think we should expect much when ignorant people like Sia (or Peter Farrelly with Green Book, or Scarlett Johansson & her cancelled project Rub & Tub) try to make respectively ignorant products- but I’m also fine if they are made well aware of how limited their perspective is.
“I have OCD, but I would be totally insane to declare that only people with OCD should be able to play characters with OCD.”Hey! That’s offensive to the clinically insane! I’m kidding but you get the idea. Complaining is a method of garnering attention – which people LOVE. Those people raising a stink aren’t altruistic they are egotistic.
I like pretending to be shoes.
I don’t know whether it’s intentional, but you’re completely glossing over the bit where Hollywood uses disabilities for Oscar bait and then says it’s “too hard” to accommodate actual disabled people on sets.
I have bad news about how accurate a portrayal of autism Rain Man was
No one cares what you think
Autistic people should have the same professional opportunities as anyone else. Obviously. But there are other factors at play that go into casting someone.People with disabilities get turned away from jobs in Hollywood all the time once producers and casting directors realize accommodations would have to be made or certain needs considered. So yeah. They should be give those opportunities. And they’re not.As for “actors are ACTORS!” yeah, someone who is living with something will have LIFELONG INPUT to play the role. As opposed to teaching a person what it’s like to be X Y or Z. And that’s invaluable as an actor.
Hollywood is ableist and cheap, and so are your self-righteous excuses for them.
It makes me really sad that people are as dumb and pathetic as you.
As for “actors are ACTORS!” yeah, someone who is living with something will have LIFELONG INPUT to play the role. As opposed to teaching a person what it’s like to be X Y or Z. And that’s invaluable as an actor.A person who is living with it will have one single experience with it. It is horribly narcissitic to believe everyone living with the same condition experiences in the very same way.
A person who is not living with it will have no single experience with it. It is horribly narcissistic to believe that chatting with someone who does will allow them to play the role.
Ah, so you not only don’t know what “narcissistic” means, you’re part of the “research is a sham and science is heresy” crowd. Have fun. And keep telling other people with your condition that you, and you alone, know how things are.
Agreed. Are we really at a point in society where actors/actresses can’t attempt to portray characteristics that they (GASP) don’t actually possess. I absolutely believe autism (and/or any other disability) should be represented more truthfully. That said, the decision to use an ACTRESS who is not actually disabled in anyway does not and should not immediately cause moral outrage/instant cancellation and/or some other type of bullshit.
I think the main problem here is it’s not a single conversation that needs addressing, but several: Exploitation vs. art, can an actor do roles about people with a disability, and if so, where is the line drawn?, and Sia needs to realize that her own inability to question her own art is troubling. I cannot answer all of these, yet I cannot help but think of The Miracle Worker as an example of when utilizing an actor, so long as it’s done in a sensitive manner, makes perfect sense. Not many people have the number of disabilities that Helen Keller had, and to expect every theatrical version of The Miracle Worker to require a young girl with them is absurd. But then I think of movies that have grotesquely bad caricatures of people with disabilities, and I cringe. And then I think of movies like The Peanut Butter Falcon, which was a great example of when someone with a disability is given chance to act, and they can, wonderfully. Sia’s responses are of someone who’s not used to having her art and intentions questioned, it’s a place of both privilege and ignorance that she did not reexamine her art, and instead bristled aggressively. I’m far more forgiving of people who can take a moment to talk and reexamine things, than a person who becomes defensive and doubles down.
I do think the fact that Maddie Ziegler is not Dustin Hoffman or Daniel Day-Lewis isn’t helping this situation. Looking at the trailer, it appears to be a stereotypical portrayal of someone with autism. That may be more of a writing problem than a performance problem, but add in the fact that you have a neurotypical person who is doing an “impression” of autism and it takes a not so neat turn. This looks to be a film that boils down autism to a series of tics. Is that good, nuanced acting? Probably not.I’m a big fan of the show There She Goes. It’s a British show and deals with parents raising a developmentally delayed. They cast a neurotypical child as the child because they wanted to show a fairly severe form of developmental delay, needed someone to appear non-verbal and be willing to be man-handled by the on-screen parents, and finding a child like the one in the script who could comfortably do that and have the same delay was difficult. I can respect that.I think it’s okay to recognize some performances may be played by someone who does not have that disability, but also hold the production to a high standard about what and how they are portraying things.
It’s absolutely unreasonable. What can only gay people play gay characters now? If so, can only straight people play straight characters? What a bunch of total nonsense. (For the record, I’m not straight, not that it should matter.) Should only amputees play amputees? Should only war veterans play war veterans? It’s total insanity. Enough is enough.
no, these kids think that you must BE THE THING you portraythey don’t understand “acting” is a series of techniques that require TALENT and DEDICATION to The Work not just “being” the thingand that POV is getting old FAST
Wasn’t it just last year Sia was paying for strangers’ groceries? This woman has never been anything but kind and compassionate.But then this is the Year of Shitting on White Women, so be sure to give a big old Fuck You to all of the women in your life this Thanksgiving (damn! all those women who WON’T be getting up early and knocking themselves out to feed a house-full of people this year).
Shit, Canadian Thanksgiving is in October and I completely forgot to give any Fuck Yous to the women in my life.
Maddie does not have the acting talent of Dustin Hoffman or Daniel Day-Lewis. She got the role because she’s Sia’s good friend. Let’s not pretend it’s anything different.
Agreed. And people need to stop attacking women artists with their armchair activism. It’s getting old.
I largely agree with you as far as the casting issue. I think it verges
into the unethical and quite possibly the illegal to require someone to
disclose a diagnosis for employment purposes.
But there are a
whole raft of other issues with how this movie was made and how it’s
being presented that reveal that Sia simply doesn’t have the background
knowledge or respect for autistic people as having perspective, history, and community, to be making this film.
With her creativity, the obsessive face-hiding and her often very blunt interview responses I’ve always thought that Sia might be on the spectrum herself which would make the resulting backlash over her relatively tactless comments absolutely fucking hilarious.
I agree with everything but the creativity.
Autism Speaks is a hate group.
No it’s not
I saw the trailer and, aside from anything else, the main vibe I took away from it was that it felt like “manic pixie dream girl narrative” except the manic pixie dream girl has autism/is autistic.What do you want to bet that cute innocent naive non-verbal person exists solely so that others can learn lessons about love and community and the power of music?
As an Autistic American I use music to plug into feeling I have trouble expressing. Watching the bubble gum pop melodrama of a trailer I feel an opportunity was missed to use music to explore and show the universality of struggling with emotions.
It’s called acting you emotionally stunted retards. You know? Where you pretend to be something you’re not? Too many whiny fringe element, anymore. How can this be taken seriously? The sticks up your butts must be super irritating.
Here’s an idea. Let’s everyone name a really talented autistic actor.No win situation, but I don’t think it’s unreasonable when casting a film that you cast the best actors available. Same is true for gay, transgender, etc. Authenticity is great but we are talking about actors; people who have made it a career out of acting like someone else. Give her a break.
“This business has gotten out of control and we’ll be lucky to live through it.”
Is somebody mad at The Big Bang Theory or Community these days? Or is this already a case of “it was a simpler time”?
I wonder. Those shows both debuted a few years after my own diagnosis, and each helped me understand something about myself I’d struggled with my whole life, and offered me a way to talk about it. The Big Bang Theory gets a lot of hate, of course, and I won’t say it’s unjustified; but while I prefer being compared to Abed, I didn’t mind it when people started calling me Sheldon Cooper. It told me they’d caught onto something about me, and were OK with it.As far as Sia is concerned, I don’t give a shit. Do her characters love Batman as much as Sheldon and Abed? ‘Cuz that’s an ugly stereotype. We need more portrayals of autistic people who don’t love Batman. I mean it. Fuck Batman.(I’m sort of kidding about Batman, of course, but to be clear, he can absolutely go straight to hell.)
I don’t like Batman either. He’s a billionaire who spends his time beating up mentally ill poor people. His money could fun all the psychiatric services they need. Give me Spider-Man any day.
Bullshit. He spends most of his time beating up mentally ill rich people. Destitute people don’t have cryosuits and cold guns, or circus themed lairs, or enough money to buy twice as many clothes as they need to only wear half of each one for the sake of a theme.
Basically, Killer Croc, and that’s about it for his classic rogues who are actually poor.
Joker and The Riddler and Mr. Freeze and Penguin and Poison Ivy and Catwoman are all wealthy.
no. The Batman PROTECTS the poor people in the Crime Alley district of Gotham where the police are all crooked Batman never patrols the rich neighborhoods Robin’s parents were murdered so Bruce decided to do the thing Alfred did for him, you know…..teach a young boy to be a ninja assassinthe normal stuff kids dohe’s in the shit, taking out the garbage, upsetting the status quounlike Superman or Green Lantern, who are essentially a fascist and a policeman or Wonder Woman, who is a Promethean Human made from clay animated by the fire of the gods, and is a HOMONCULUS, or a GOLEM
Yeah, nearly two decades ago. It was a simpler time.When US America didn’t elect a president who openly mocked a disabled reporter, it was a simpler time.
Though casting two people who have been othered for different reasons at least gave them a sense of what we go thru. Basic blonde pretty-boy slumming for an award is different.Maybe you can understand that in life there are multiple colors. Sometimes those colors blend to make new colors. Things aren’t just black and white with shades of grey. To be normal and raised that way must be so limiting.
Abed wasn’t even autistic, he had OCD and depression, and played into the autism diagnosis when he stumbled on social cues.
That’s not so, they said he had Aspergers in the first episode, and it was pretty clear in later episodes that they knew he was on the spectrum.
Jeff said that, and in the original script Britta responds with “you aren’t qualified to make that diagnosis.” It’s not ever officially confirmed.
Also Dan Harmon has autism, so I can happily give it a pass there if he’s writing/signing off on the dialogue and actors.
He doesn’t really. I mean he might, but he self-diagnosed that. I think considering he’s overtly said “Abed is me”, there might be some mirroring there of “covering” with an unconfirmed diagnosis.
Could have sworn he was diagnosed with asperger’s but looking it up the articles saying so link to an interview I can’t access.
He should really get an official diagnosis, then — he’s shown many of the signs for a while, and there’s a difference between being socially clueless because you’re born that way and being socially clueless because you chose to be a jerk.
maybe he fears it’s been the latter
Is somebody mad at The Big Bang Theory or Community these days?Neither one of those shows stated that the characters in question were autistic nor were the shows specifically about their autism.
Abed also turned out to be a much more complex character in a show that was deliberately exploring the question of how TV audiences invest value in characters.The Big Bang Theory just held up a bunch of stock character types for audiences to laugh at. Community (not always with equal success or commitment) was interested in thinking about the relationship between laughing with somebody and laughing at somebody. Hence the growing prominence of the Dean and Chang by the end of the series. And while, of course, characters like Todd remained on the periphery for comic effect, that also seemed to be the point: to what degree was the study group a real “community” if their internal laughing-with was premised on an externally-focused laughing-at. (See: the penultimate episode.)
Should Abed not have been played by a neurotypical actor? Perhaps.
Yes, those shows are being reexamined. I mean BBT has plenty wrong with it, but the answer to your question is “yes.”
This is pretty horrifying.
did they say any of the characters on that show were diagnosed autistic, or people just assume they are?
On one hand, I get being a director and wanting to protect your movie. Because it’s not just the director’s; the work of dozens, if not hundreds of people is on screen. On the other, it sounds like Sia just kinda did what she wanted, picked what and who she wanted, and went with any yes she could get from whomever she could get them.
Trans Folk is actually one of my favorite genres, despite finding most crossover artists to be kinda corny.
liminal and seminal
That actually got me laughing… I’ve been reading through this whole comment section (lorde knows why) – and I’ve decided to stop with “Trans Folk” as a music genre. Thank you.
Now, Trans folks are not disabled, but they are a minority. In Australia:‘Since launching a social media campaign on Monday, (trans actor) Daya Czepanski has collected more than 1,700 signatories expressing the transgender community’s “profound sadness and disappointment” over the casting of “a cisgender male as a transgender character”.’https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2020/nov/18/its-not-about-cancel-culture-hedwig-and-the-angry-inch-postponed-after-trans-led-petition… Does this mean that Czepanski won’t play straight parts?
Sia continued to respond to a number of people and tweet indignantly, mainly to lament that her good intentions and “years of research” are being overlooked in favor of calling out blatant ableism. Seriously, won’t somebody think of the poor, defensive director?You’re an idiot.
and you’re an asshole.
I am on the autism spectrum, so I feel like I am able to speak on this. Unlike most forms of diversity, autism (as well as some other disabilities) can make filming extremely difficult. That is far from universal as there are certainly successful actors on the spectrum (Sir Anthony Hopkins and Dan Aykroyd, just to name two) but there are probably a lot who would find filming difficult, and with the social difficulties that come with the condition, probably can’t act very well either.If the character is meant to be lower functioning, that’s even harder to find somebody who can play the part adequately who is on the spectrum. Even if you get someone, they’re probably higher functioning, so their lived experience has little relation to what they’re playing, which at that point, there’s little difference with hiring someone neurotypical for the part. Might an autistic person have insight that would improve their performance that a neurotypical person wouldn’t? Maybe, but a neurotypical person that did their research and consulted with autism groups (not Autism Speaks) I have little doubt that they could turn in an adequate performance if they were talented enough.Others may disagree with me, and I’m not saying that there are no actresses on the spectrum that can play this part, but there are probably very few, and there may not be the budget to be able to find them on this project.It’s also just not comparable to other forms of minorities. Most successful actors on the spectrum do not only play autistic characters. If they are going to be successful actors, they can probably act like people who aren’t themselves. This is different from women and minorities, since autism is not a visible trait, so these actors aren’t forced into certain types of roles because of this minority status. It is not limiting in the same way that race or gender often end up being. You also end up with the problem that this line of thinking clearly needs to stop somewhere (maybe that somewhere is later than I’m arguing, but it has to stop at some point). I’m all for actors matching the ethnicity, race, and gender of their character, but you can’t have every piece of their background and identity line up with their character. It is impractical (especially in genre films, where it’s often impossible) and unnecessary. Acting is about pretending that you are someone you’re not, so differences are fine to some degree.Maybe Sia’s film will be offensive. I have a hard time telling one way or another just from a trailer, and it will depend just as much on the writing as it does on the performance. And that writing will be the same regardless of who they cast.
I don’t think it’s impossible for abled people to play disabled characters. It’s just that for the most part disabled actors usually do a better job playing disabled characters. And it seems like the real problem with this film is that the performance comes off more as mimicry than acting and it’s clearly not some well researched attempt at portraying autism. It’s more than just the casting.
Yeah, that’s fair. I haven’t looked at the trailer, but it’s completely possible for this film to be offensive. Just most of the ire seemed to be entirely at the casting. Plus most of my favorite characters who seemed autistic (there is a depressingly small amount of confirmed autistic characters) are usually played by non-autistic actors (as far as I know), so I never viewed it as much of a problem.
The thing I’ve noticed is that neurotypical actors tend to do a better job playing characters who are only coded as autistic rather than characters who are explicitly autistic. My favorite example of this is Kyle MacLachlan in Twin Peaks. I have no idea if Agent Cooper was intentionally written as autistic or if he just comes off that way because he’s basically a self-insert of David Lynch who I heavily suspect to be on the spectrum. But either way it’s a far more believable portrayal of autism than many overt portrayals usually are.
It honestly wouldn’t shock me if that is often the case.
You have definitely not watched the film so you have no idea what the performance is like.
bingo
To add to your post, Sia wouldn’t just have needed an autistic actor, she would’ve needed an autistic actor who’s also a professional dancer. That’s a tiny, tiny pool to choose from.
The most fucked up part of this whole faux-representation bullshtick is that when you actually step back and look at it, you’re basically saying you are incapable of enjoying movies as fiction, you need the added bonus of real life trauma as experienced by the actors otherwise you won’t like the film.
“Sure, we could get a talented non-X actor to portray X. Actors are empathic, that’s their job, to wear other faces. But let’s get a real X if we can. No substitute for real pain.”
Or: “We should give more opportunities to actors with disabilities, considering that this film is all about said disability.” OH NO HOW CRUEL AN OPPOURTINITY TO ACT AND GET PAID.
I assume like, Room and 12 Years A Slave aren’t subject to the same rubric?What about superhero movies? “We need a real radiation victim!”Anyway Shannon Miller please quit writing for this site.
I assume like, Room and 12 Years A Slave aren’t subject to the same rubric?See, it’s this kind of stupid “slippery slope” comment that shows just how little you’ve actually thought about this.
I’ll bet you anything her outrage-peddling articles get the most hits for this site. She’ll be happily employed for a long, long time.
Yeah but since I know that mean she’s a narcissist, she probably crowd-sources her self-esteem from her work and might see me calling her for being terrible at a really important job.
If she goes, three more will just take her place.
I agree that you don’t necessarily need to have autism to play an autistic person, but referring to that condition as ‘trauma’ isn’t helping your case.
Will the film at any point be depicting autistic people experiencing hardships?Yes? So if you want a real life autistic person playing the role there, it’s because you’ll really believe it when they suffer on screen.
It’s not about suffering. It’s about being believable as a disabled person.
Representation in the realm of the imaginative is only one part of the equation. What sets movies apart from say, novels, is that they are far more collective in terms of their production—not just their reception. As TheDude says in another comment posted here, there are plenty of autistic actors looking for work, who would never get cast as a neurotypical person. The argument that it’s “just fiction” or “just acting”—while not without any merit—in practice too often obscures the actual economic reality of film and TV production. Ultimately, by advancing that argument, you are claiming that the current distribution of opportunity should serve *your* aesthetic interests. Unless, however, Sia can make a case for how Ziegler’s portrayal of an autistic person is somehow uniquely valuable or interesting, I fail to see how your aesthetic position should be the determining one. It’s not a zero-sum game. Casting an autistic person to play an autistic character will not undermine the power of fiction or the value of acting, or take any substantial opportunities away from able-bodied or neurotypical actors. If it does undermine your personal aesthetic position, then perhaps that position was too narrow and already ableist to begin with. (I.e. the idea that acting is about an actor’s *ability* to portray anything they themselves want–even though, as we know, this is far from the only philosophy of acting out there.)
It’s incredibly obvious how bad-faith this take is.
Your comment is fucked up (having a real life condition isn’t “trauma”) and replying to your own comment just shows how stupid it was.
I don’t think most disabled people would agree that their existence is trauma.
I really don’t get Sia, she hates fame, but then she absolutely revals in it. It makes me think her polar personality is probably loving the negative social media onslaught.She’s a good song writer, but I’ve lost respect for her
Is it me or does it seem like every other article in AV Club is an exercise in virtue signaling? Do prospective new columnists have to undergo a wokeness test of some sort before being given a job?
Saying Autism Speaks is evil is kinda gross. They’re perfectly ok.
Sia should stop making movies and get back to what she’s good at – giving money to random Survivor players based on her whims.
The AV Club newswire has just become an endless string of examples of the world going completely fucking insane.
Well, see here the problem is she engaged in social media. Call me if you want more PR advice, lady.
This is stupid. Actors are playing a role. That is literally their job. If you can’t understand or accept that, then get rid of your tv and stop going to movies.
And shame on avclub for promoting this behavior.
I’m pleased to see the backlash at the backlash.
In Maoist China stage plays were mandated to only depict the glorious struggles of the valiant working class and anything else is ‘counter-revolutionary’. Not even China’s doing that sort of bullshit anymore (though they did recently crack down on a popular historical soap opera for glorifying dynastic imperial monarchy as a form of government.)
I mean, they still are? Anyone/anything that is seen as openly critical of the ruling party or hostile to national interests is censored or negotiated out of existence.
Also, the difference is that the Communist Party has power. The autistic community… does not.
dude. why must you always come up with the most barely related take on a subject. isn’t it exhausting?
People are fucking insufferable.
Oh look, someone writes about a marginalized, misrepresented community constantly being shut out of an industry that wants to make portrayals of them, and all the commentariat fills up with self-righteous bros (who’ve never had to consider anyone outside of their own personal experience of the world) talking about how stupid it is.
Yeah, cuz everything’s just fine for you guys. Learn to listen to other people’s perspectives for fuck’s sake. You’re all so sensitive.
‘Fired, Aren’t I’? Yes, Boss.
Unemployment among actors in Hollywood is typically 90%, or some similar number. If you want to start a career in an industry with a 90% unemployment rate expect to be unemployed.
Why? Jennifer Aniston’s got a career. For wearing hair … I plan on winning an Oscar. For playing a shopping trolley. Until Trolleys Of The World (tm.) revolt …
Unemployment among actors in Hollywood is typically 90%, or some similar
number. If you want to start a career in an industry with a 90%
unemployment rate expect to be unemployed.Cool. Now explain why among that 90%, people who aren’t able-bodied, white, and straight seem to make up so much of it? I guess they’re all coincidentally “just not good actors.”
Cool. Now explain why among that 90%, people who aren’t able-bodied, white, and straight seem to make up so much of it? I guess they’re all coincidentally “just not good actors.”Aside from the fact that you evidently are “just not good at statistics” and simply fail to utterly comprehend the implications of those “90%”, you evidently also believe that not being able-bodied is just some words that do not have any wider implications. Like, it’s not that a quadriplegic couldn’t portray Usain Bolt or play someone hiking through the Catskills in the dead of winter. Right? Right?
Because the notion that within a pool where the probability of getting a role is slim to begin with, the fact that you cannot play some of those scarce roles can’t have any consequences whatsoever…
Learn to listen to other people’s perspectives for fuck’s sakeThat’s what movies are for, dummy.
Fucking Hell. Just learn about people’s experiences. The replies this tweet got are terrible.
lol, that’s not “disabled”
…yes it is“lol”
ADHD/ADD is a developmental disorder. That’s what the second D stands for. Disorder is disability especially in this context.
what the fuck are you seriousThe D stands for disorder, which really means disability?Fuck off. Use words right.
yeah, i could of worded that better but wow you don’t need to be an asshole about it
sorry i have a disorder or maybe a disability
dude move on. i made a mistake in wording. i fucked up. you don’t need to keep harping on about it
Oh, those actors. Always pretending to be something they are not.
‘The official synopsis doesn’t offer much information on the plot, but says that the story “is a wholly original exploration of the healing power of love and the importance of community.”’I’m Australian, right, so in the name of community, I invited Sia over for a beer and bbq over Rugby League, ‘cos that’s what Aussies do. Sia’s yet to get back to me, but fair enough. America, when it comes to Rugby League, you’re better off watching thespian music, which is purely visual …
On one hand I get that there probably isn’t a lot of work out there for autistic actors, but on the other hand she wanted to work with someone she has a prolific history of making great things together. Idk seems way overblown, and probably nothing wouldve come of it if she just hadnt responded
I guess maybe I am just too old, but can you really NOT have a non-autistic person playing an autistic character these days?I get the “race” thing, of course, but where exactly does this line of thinking end?Must every disability (“difference”, or whatever the correct way of saying it is) or character trait be played by someone who has that trait?If you had a character who was a serial killer, would it be OK to have an actor who was “NOT a serial killer” play that character?If you had a character with “schizophrenia”, must that character be played by a diagnosed “schizophrenic”?
And… I do not mean to tie together “serial killer” with “autistic”, I’m just saying my goodness, the profession is called “acting”, you know?
People seem to be reacting based on the assumption that Sia is a “normal” person.I don’t think she is.
… Oh, I thought she said artistic. Looking at the visuals’ accompanying incidental music, maybe Sia’d be better off co-opting actual musicians, than this week’s Minority Of Choice.
Poor Maddie Ziegler…first Book of Henry now this.Oh, also the tone of the comments defending Sia in this are exactly the ignorant shit I’ve come to expect.Whether you think the casting was bad or not, her handling of this has been shit.Defer back to Anne Hathaway’s comments regarding The Witches for how it should be done.
So the community wants to be treated just like other people but they don’t want to be told they’re full of hot air when they make a stink for no good reason, just like we’d tell other people.
wow, this comments section is an absolute ableist shitshow. A good reminder why I don’t comment here anymore. But thank you for a great article, Shannon.
‘Alebist’?
“Opinions on here range from mine all the way to not mine!”
A studio meeting over a new script sometime next week… “I see your script included a disabled character. Can we change that character to someone else? Because we just don’t want to be bothered with the activist headaches.”
This point cannot be overstated.
People’s empathy still stops at disabled people. One of the most blind comment sections here in a long time.
And once more PC at it’s finest. The world is full of snowflakes nowadays… The outrage culture is fucking hilarious. I mean, shouldn’t you call for Sia to be cancelled by now? That is what you fuckers do right?
I find this irritating, to be honest. I will need to see the movie to tell if the portrayal is “offensive.” There are terribly offensive depictions of neurodivergent people (e.g. Gigli) and there are sensitive and accurate portrayals, like Claire Danes playing Temple Grandin. I don’t think an actor needs to be autistic to play someone on the spectrum, that’s getting a bit ridiculous.
Apart from anything else, what bothers me here is the idea of someone having to present an official diagnosis so they can be “appropriately” cast in a role. I don’t think whether or not someone is neurotypical is really any of their employer’s business, let alone the public’s.
lol the maybe you’re just a bad actor bit is hilarious
Ah, do you recall the good old days when it was only the Catholic church that was condemning movies before seeing them? Simpler times.
You know I used to be skeptical of the horseshoe theory of politics but the last couple of years has really changed that
You’re goddam right. We’ve come full circle with the moralists.
After rewatching The Howling, I just realized that I am offended they didn’t cast actual werewolves.
“…thirteen neuroatypical people, three trans folk…”and a partridge in a pear tree!!!
I don’t agree that in this particular case casting somebody who isn’t autistic automatically means it’s a minstrel show. However the way she has handled the backlash and the involvement of Autism Speak are just not a great look for her
“rightful criticism”. Yeah no. Actors act, “this person is not actually the thing they are pretending to be” is the complete opposite of rightful criticism when it comes to acting, in fact it’s patently moronic and no matter how much people like you try to claim otherwise, it’s not a mindset that’s ever going to dominate the subject.
There’s no way she could have done more than a cursory level of research on autism, or she would surely have noticed the burning hatred a lot of autistic folks have for Autism Speaks. To claim “I had no idea it was such a polarizing group!” is damning in and of itself, honestly.
“Ziegler—one of Sia’s long-time creative collaborators—is not autistic, making her characterization offensive to those who are.”
…the act of acting itself is offensive now?
And considering the nature of autism, the chance that they would really be offended by Ziegler getting that acting gig is really pretty low.
What the fuck dude, way to dismiss the numerous real people commenting on how hurtful this.
Which severely non-verbal autistic award winning dancer should Sia have cast in her dance movie?
What the fuck dude what are all the butthurt people on the internet doing to ensure that neuroatypical people are provided all the resources they need in our school systems to ensure they get an equitable education?
What are you doing? Why do we have to fix it ourselves?
Who else is going to do it?
And how is shitting on a pop singer’s ultimately meaningless “art project” going to do ANYTHING substantive?
so why should we criticize anything ever, i guess. congrats, you’ve just destroyed half of this website.
HAH I wish I had the power to destroy the toxic culture of complaint that masquerades itself as “political action” but I will have to content myself with this.
k
“The trailer faced swift, rightful criticism from the disabled community, which was quick to point out that Ziegler—one of Sia’s long-time creative collaborators—is not autistic, making her characterization offensive to those who are.”“Rightful” being the operative word which is up to interpretation. More of the left going too far, this is why we lose so many elections. Sad to see. SIA wasn’t 100% right and WOKE so we impale her on the cross of our activism. Shameful.
I could be wrong but I believe one of the side effects or symptoms of autism is the hyper focus on something, the nitpicking of tiny discrepancies and the inability to “let things go”. Is this ironic?
I don’t understand how, Shannon Miller, you can write a snide article criticizing someone for snidely criticizing people. Maybe you need the clicks, maybe you enjoy feeling superior, but isn’t it better to explore the topic with more interest than derision?
well, this sucks. I liked Sia. but she’s being an ass.and I’m gonna say it again: as a disabled person myself, it would be lovely to maybe actually see a disabled actor play a disabled character every once in a while. or maybe even play a character who’s not disabled! hey!love, the blind lady who’s still pissed about Stephen Root in Get Out
Mark Hamill isn’t a Jedi!Fuck Star Wars!!
“Hi, I haven’t seen your film, but your casting was wrong, and I was available. Why aren’t you making me famous instead?”
My mind always goes two ways on the questions. First is the idea that actors, writers, directors are not obliged to anyone and can write, cast, acts as and do what they want on their project. If people find it offensive, not representative enough etc then don’t see it. As a middle class, white, straight man my writing would be pretty dull if I only wrote about things in my life and would probably be told that it wasn’t representative enough. On the other hand, I realise that a lot of people who would be better placed to tell these stories more authentically are not getting the chance to do so – and that issue doesn’t lay with Hollywood or producers (they don’t make stars they pick them from great smaller films) but with this level of film maker. Ones who aren’t really looking to make huge amounts of money from their films but to tell a story. Yes, Sia won’t want to make a loss, but at the same time this won’t be her main source of income, so she could take risks and cast accordingly.
CALM TH FUK DOWN PEOPLE.
Make sure you consult “the community” before you do anything. WHOOPS don’t assume there is a “community” consensus on ANYTHING.
The obvious solution is no one should ever try to do anything outside their lane. People without disabilities, stay away from people with disabilities. People with disabilities, only work with other people with disabilities! White people, don’t hire POC. POC, don’t hire white people. EVERYONE STAY IN YOUR LANES.
Wait til these people learn of Forrest Gump
She went on to explain that she consulted Autism Speaks, a rather polarizing advocacy organization that sponsors autism research and spreads awareness.It’s not polarizing, it’s an outright shitty organization. They spend little amounts of the money they raise on “research” and their goal is not to help autistic people that are alive, but to find out how to detect autism before birth so parents can abort it. They don’t want to help autistic people, but eliminate them. Remember, the first people the Nazis exterminated were mentally disabled.
It’s like every day is “What absolutely trivial thing should we get outraged over today?”
Fuck all these people. Sia is a really, REALLY good person and she doesn’t deserve the shit she’s taking. I don’t blame her for bristling.
I have a lot of conflicting feelings about this, but the one thing I’m certain of is, “Hey I wasn’t busy that week, why didn’t you cast me?” is probably the dumbest possible argument you could make in that situation.
I thought she handled it pretty well.
My two cents as someone with ASD: I think it is possible for a neurotypical to play an atypical and get it right. But…it’s hard. It requires a lot of research and no matter how close you try to come, you’re simply NOT on the spectrum and you’ll never be able to nail the nuances with 100% accuracy.I’m not going to hang anyone over it because this is true of anything. An actor will never be able to precisely replicate someone from Pennsylvania unless he’s lived in Pennsylvania. He may be able to nail the accent, but he’ll eventually name a river wrong.
It gets more complicated with something like ASD. There is no “one” way to protray ASD due to the “S” standing for spectrum. A lot of actors in these roles decide to overdo it and so the “heavy” side is all you see. The guy from Atypical is a good example….I don’t see why anyone would voluntarily date an aspie after watching that series and getting that guy in their head.But the problem with ONLY casting aspie actors for aspie roles is this: If we establish a rule that only a person with X can play X, then they will be typecast as X forever and will only land X roles until the day they die, forever pigeonholed by their minority status. Right now this isn’t an issue, but it will be.Life is complicated. Also, Community is not “aspie-face.”
Well… I am autistic and I actually want to see Ziegler performing as an autistic. I don’t know… isn’t the whole deal of “acting” to perform something or someone you’re not? I might be wrong…
jeez. I cant believe im defending Sia, but shes right, fuck these people who think every choice of actor now has to be approved by a committee of THEM.
If actors can’t play autistic characters unless they’re autistic, should we also react just as negatively to writers who write about autistic people but aren’t autistic? From now on, let’s trash any journalist that dares shine a light on autistic people without being autistic themselves. How many autistic writers does Gizmodo employ, I wonder?
If there’s one thing worse than excluding someone because of what makes them different to the ‘norm’, it’s assuming that everyone who’s had that same label slapped on them is exactly the same as everyone else with that label. Just because an actor is autistic doesn’t mean they can portray a character who happens to also be autistic. Because autism is a tiny tiny fraction of who that person is, and they will have a trillion other things that factor into who they are and – as a character – how they might behave and – as an actor – what they might bring to the role to bring it to life in a way that the audience will connect with. If a character is a wheelchair-using PTSD-suffering sexual-abuse survivor, do we now have to find someone with all those facets of their actual personality to play the role? If so, at what point does it stop being a work of fiction and start just being a documentary? Do we need better representation in the creative industry? Yes.Do we need more diversity in the entertainment industry? Hell yes. Do we need better character writing? Absolutely.
Do we need a journalist to get on a pedestal and tell the world how we should be represented because they only see one rather obtuse label instead of everything else that matters? No thanks.
Tom Hanks is an astronaut.