I Learned Nothing
ILN EP 115: The Anthropic Principle
Ben Cholok is a Princeton graduate with a degree in philosophy and no other accomplishments. Pat Dean is a stand-up comedian who lives in ignorance. Each week on I Learned Nothing, Cholok tries to teach Dean a different philosophical concept in order to add meaning to both their lives. This has proved difficult: After 115 episodes, Cholok has only managed to present Dean with philosophers and ideas that annoy the hell out of him. Even something as cosmic and all-encompassing as the anthropic principle fails to grab Dean’s imagination; he’s much more interested in trying to work out how paid professionals managed to screw up The Rise Of Skywalker so badly. Despite Cholok’s best efforts, he’s constantly thwarted by Dean’s riffs on the pair’s mutual lapsed Catholicism and hatred of C-3PO actor Anthony Daniels. But that’s not to say you’ll be left in the dark. Cholok always manages to clearly explain the basic principles of a concept, and by the end of the episode, listeners will understand that the universe has been fine-tuned, whether through design or chance, to enable the existence of I Learned Nothing. Keep up the great work, universe. [Anthony D Herrera]
Imaginary Advice
Exquisite Corpse (With Clive Desmond)
Ross Sutherland of Imaginary Advice is something like the Merce Cunningham of audio producers, constantly trying to play with the notions of spontaneous creation through randomness, obstacle, and limitation. His podcast is delightfully different, as Sutherland actively tries to eschew an intentional production. The show’s latest episode is emblematic of that, and it’s a real standout in a catalog loaded with gems. In it, Sutherland and fellow audiomaker Clive Desmond attempt to take the well-known dadaist parlor game exquisite corpse—wherein participants take turns drawing a section of a human body without being allowed to look at what others have drawn before them—and map it onto the audio format. Over the course of the past year, Sutherland and Desmond divvied up the parts of the body to use as inspiration, composing their segments sequentially in secret, sharing only the barest of ending snippets with one another to make for seamless transitions. The result is full of humor, surprises, artistry, and genuine emotion. [Ben Cannon]
Murmurs
Ten
The BBC’s ventures into fiction podcasting have been getting steadily stranger in the best of ways, and the anthology Murmurs is an imaginative and challenging work created primarily by independent podcast artists. Janina Matthewson’s (Within The Wires) three-part story about Millie and her mother is stellar. Millie and her mother trade phone calls and voicemails after Millie moves to London, talking about the little things that plague them, until those little things suddenly start fixing themselves in impossible ways, like an enormous tear in a dress repairing itself. Matthewson steadily ups the stakes, driving a wedge between Millie and her mum: Every time they talk, there’s more disruption in their lives. This whole series is an intricate story puzzle that winds in on itself by the end. [Elena Fernández Collins]
Song Exploder
“Semisonic – Closing Time”
Semisonic’s 1998 classic “Closing Time” might seem straightforward in its lyrics and production: It’s a college rock standard about closing time at a bar and looking for someone to go home with at the last minute. But it turns out there’s more to the song than that. On Song Exploder, Semisonic writer and lead vocalist Dan Wilson dissects the lyrics line by line with host Hrishikesh Hirway. According to Wilson, the hit song employs a double meaning, using the imagery of closing time at a bar to half-earnestly, half-jokingly mirror the anxiety of a difficult childbirth, shoving a human out into the world whether or not they’re ready. It isn’t just the lyrics that take on new depth with this conversation. As Wilson breaks down the key changes, differences in drums and distortion, and sweeping string section, it’s impossible to listen to “Closing Time” the same way again by the time the episode wraps. [Wil Williams]
Storybound
Adelle Waldman Reads An Excerpt From Her Novel “The Love Affairs Of Nathaniel P.”
This podcast from the book lovers at Lit Hub has a pretty straightforward premise: An author reads one of their stories, essays, or a novel excerpt accompanied by an immersive soundscape, complete with an original score and a cast of voice actors performing the dialogue. This deceptively simple format is an engrossing audio experience. Anyone who finds themselves drifting off while listening to conventional audiobooks will quickly notice the difference a little quality sound design can make. Writers like Mitch Albom, Kim Barnes, and Matt Gallagher have already graced listeners with readings in the first batch of episodes, and this week features an excerpt from The Love Affairs Of Nathaniel P., Adelle Waldman’s biting examination of the promiscuous, self-identifying intellectual males that populated Brooklyn in the early 2000s. From the first sentence, listeners are transported to a dive bar in New York City where the jukebox bumps in the background during one of Nathaniel’s many first dates. As a bonus, Waldman sticks around to discuss the making-of process behind the episode and the anxiety that comes with bringing any piece of writing to an audio format. [Dan Neilan]
Xena Warrior Podcast
Minisode 10: Reboot Or Revival Extravaganza!
The groundbreaking ’90s series Xena: Warrior Princess managed to be fiercely feminist, queer, campy, and fantastical, establishing a loyal fanbase that remains obsessed with a show that ended in 2001. Among those fans are the hosts of Xena Warrior Podcast—Vera, Katie, and Livy—who are bursting with commentary on all six 22-episode seasons. In our current age of reboots and revivals, the three hosts consider options for revamping a beloved series. They also point out how the original show was a product of its era, and how the limitations of serialized TV have changed, for better or worse. Xena has an undeniably mercurial tone, which the hosts factor into their own compelling ideas for a reboot/revival. [Jose Nateras]
92 Comments
They told me I was crazy, but you see it now! I was right all along!I had the idea that Closing Time was about childbirth when it first came out, and people around me are all “Nah, this is just college rock. There’s no way there’s this big double meaning for it. It’s just a song about closing a bar.”
I’m pretty sure anyone who ever bothered to listen to the lyrics figured that out.
I hope the entry about Closing Time is being sarcastic. Did anyone actually think it was a literal reference to a bar closing? How many senior proms has it played at?
I fear that I am not ready for a critical reappraisal of Semisonic.
I thought it was common knowledge that Closing Time was about childbirth, even back when it was first released.
Nothing is common, especially hidden meanings in songs that don’t actually work.
I legit just thought it was a nice song about people having to go home after a fun night out.
yeah, they were pretty open about it.
I thought it was about your life being over once you have kids, close I guess?
I thought it was individual knowledge whenever anyone heard the song. It’s kind of hard to miss
Yeah if the podcast is treating that as some sort of new revelation, they completely missed the boat.
I hadn’t heard that, but perhaps that just shows how little I know.
shoving a human out into the world whether or not they’re ready. I didn’t know it was about childbirth, but this part was pretty clear.The childbirth thing doesn’t change the song for me at all, except making it sound pretentious.
were they ever reviewed initially?
Shame, the drummer wrote a great book about being in a band.
I’m like half-ready
What’s the other half doing in the split screen?
I’m just glad to know that “Closing Time” is now a “classic” rather than a “mediocre piece of shit”…
It’s an okay enough pop song, as far as those go. That’s about all I can give it. I enjoy it more than “She’s So High” by Tal Bachman, which is my sole musical measuring stick.
FUN FACT: “She’s So High” is about getting an abortion at a bar just before closing time…
I will not ever hear that title and not immediately think of Blur’s song.
Wait till you figure out how many of one are the other
Too late. Dan Wilson wrote some songs with Adele so now he has been elevated to godhood by some.
I hated. Like gouge my ears out hated that song when it came out. Now I am oddly nostalgic about it. I still don’t enjoy it, but I kind of like it if that makes sense. (It doesn’t.)I was apparently was not hip to the “real meaning” of the song. The song was big my senior year in college. I’ve always thought it was about graduating college and entering the real world. The lyrics make far more sense that way. I still don’t really think the song is about child birth. “Once last call for alcohol so finish your whiskey or beer…” Maybe the song is about the child birth of Ozzie Osborne? I guess that would make sense.
Hey, no hate here! Catchy tune, which is all it needed to be. It isn’t, say, All Star or anything.
I think someone is trying to make that song deep when it is most definitely not that deep.
You’re too late, I’ve already been that annoying music nerd at parties asking people if they knew Closing Time was about childbirth for years!
“And dude, FRESHMEN by the fackin’ Verve Pipe?”
“Oh yeah, they did that Bittersweet Symphony song, right?”“No, that’s The Verve. They were never as good as Verve Pipe because they didn’t have pipe in their name.”
“Foah extra lettahs makes it FACKIN’ BETTAH! What’re you stupid or somethin’!?”
They didn’t have pipe in their name, but The Verve did have Nick McCabe as their guitarist, so they’ve got that going for them. Which is nice.
Let me guess, “The Freshmen” has a secret meaning too. Is it actually about… romaine lettuce?
Pretty sure it’s about abortion. Like “Slide” by the Goo Goo Dolls. Or “Brick” by Ben Folds Five. Or…
There sure are a lot of songs from the 90s about guys kind of being dicks about paying for their girlfriends’ abortions, huh?
“I Want it That Way” -Backstreet Boys
“Tubthumping” – Chumbawumba
“Rollin” Limp Bizkit
I just checked these to make sure… well played sir.
So, you wanna start a podcast?
I worked in a bar in the late 90s and early 2000’s. I listen to podcasts because I don’t want to listen to Closing Time by Semisonic ever again.
I hope you have found a… friend.
Same. I too worked in a bar at the time and if I hear that song again I’ll shove a spoon through each ear so I’ll look like a crude robot.
There are two types of Johnny Cash fans in the world:1. People who still listen to the music of Johnny Cash.2. People who used to love Johnny Cash but worked in a bar after the Johnny Cash biopic was released and there was a Best of Johnny Cash cd on the jukebox.
That “Closing Time” Song Exploder is one of the best episodes I’ve ever heard, even as someone who already knew the song’s Deep Hidden Meaning – just a wonderfully-told parallel narrative of a great, ubiquitous pop song’s creation and the specific moment in its creator’s life that it emerged from. Really enthusiastic cosign from me on this endorsement of it.
This one and the Clairo – Alewife episode are really the pinnacle of what Song Exploder can be. Although, some of the other, more technical episodes are also great in a much less emotionally involving way.
Something something placenta
The “Closing Time” childbirth story is as old as the song. I mean, if its news to you, then there you go.
Is ‘Closing Time’ really a classic song?Really?
Checks notes.Yes. Really. It’s got staying power and shows up on tv and film, and it’s not uncommon for cheeky bartenders to play it at 1:57.
That song would definitely drive me out of a given establishment, even if it weren’t literally closing time.
they play it in the grocery store when i shop, which is thursday morning at like 9:30 am, so apparently old people and affluent mothers with kids who exclusively wear yoga pants really love that song?
So the kids are exclusively wearing the yoga pants? Odd.
If those same mothers are sporting a ball cap and ponytail then you may have actually warped to a Fayetteville, Arkansas Target on a Tuesday morning.
classic is a term that may feel loaded, but its still around, and still draws a favorable appreciation from gen x ers, I was never a huge fan, but I cannot deny enough people liked it for it to live on, its no “freshmen” by the verve pipe, but its suitably present in pop culture of the day. realy what applicable definition of classic is there other than “they wont quit playing the damn thing”
Normie gen-x that didn’t find Blur outside of “Song 2”.
Many classics aren’t very good, because quality isn’t the only thing what determines what people remember and emulate.For instance: play a mediocre pop song in every bar across the entire English-speaking world at the same time every night, and it will end up on the set list of cover bands for years.
Absolutely. And it’s far from the best tune Dan had written. Semisonic’s album “Great Divide” is an amazing album.
If Billy fucking Joel gets that honor, then Semisonic can at least be in the running.
You know, not many people know this, but, when he says he knows who he wants to take him home, he is not only referring to a specific chauffeur, there is a deeper level of meaning on which humans with specified knowledge are aware that, in addition to “take me home,” the narrator is also saying that he knows whom he wishes to bone. You’re welcome.
No, clearly he wants the baby to take the wheel and drive him home. Everybody knows that.
I prefer the chipper tones of “Jesus Take the Wheel (Cuz I’m Fucking Shitfaced)“
I know who IIIIII wanna fuckin’ bone!
“comes from some other beginning’s end”Nasty.
Cum Town was really good this week.
Sounds like it was a real conversation starter.
Well that’d be unexpected. Any time I tried it it just kinda sucked.
…he’s much more interested in trying to work out how paid professionals managed to screw up The Rise Of Skywalker so badly.A perfectly sane life mystery to ponder.
These TLJ partisans must be stopped.
Do Star Wars fans realize that their poorly written, uncharismatic, obtuse infighting is just recreating the prequels in real life?
Their only crime was recognizing that Rise is an inferior movie. Possibly the worst since Attack of the Clones. You may not like TLJ’s plot points, but at least it had a plot rather than a series of McGuffin hunts.
You’re not wrong, really. I think the most annoying thing about TLJ is its fans, as opposed to the movie itself. Listening to some people, you’d think The Last Jedi was some kind of film classic…which it most emphatically was not. The entire sequel trilogy was an utter waste of time and, more importantly, a waste of an excellent cast. But YMMV, as the humans say so succinctly!
I can’t disagree that it was a waste of a good cast. The whole trilogy is deeply flawed.
It always seems kind of unreal to me that any adult in the audience would maintain strong emotions about a Star Wars movie for any length of time. Clearly it happens but it’s just baffling
I’ve listened to a couple eps of I Learned Nothing, and it’s good, but the best Pat Dean podcast (and in the running for best podcast all time) is the Lanalax Corporation.
That parallel correlation to child birth was a bit tenuous and rough. I think it was great for him on a personal level but most of the lyrics ain’t about squatting out a kid, no matter how hard he tries to stretch it.
I’d like to know when “Closing-Time” became a “classic”.
When every so-so bar in the English-speaking world started playing it every night at the same time, when every cover band added it to their set list, when you bothered to have an instant opinion on it, etc.
I’m… kind of surprised that anyone needed the writer to explain the obvious double meaning of that song. It barely qualifies as metaphor
The “Deep Hidden Meaning” of Closing Time has been such consistent fodder for “Did You Know?” Clickbait articles and listicles that I’m genuinely surprised anyone on the internet doesn’t already know about it.
I wonder if Song Exploder could find the real meaning of Mudhoney’s version of Spaceman 3’s “Revolution” … I’m thinking it’s about drugs.
Why do the I Learned Nothing guys hate Anthony Daniels?
Well, for starters, word on the street is that he was a real dick to Kenny Baker.
Somehow, I never heard about his reputation. But a search brought up some pretty condescending, diva-like quotes.
Yeah. I’m sorry to have pointed it out to you. I wish I’d remained blissfully unaware, because unfortunately knowing his reputation has led to the sad side-effect of me not liking C-3PO as much as I used to. Alas.
“Closing Time” had a good run, but The Hold Steady’s “Meet Me in the Lobby” is now the reigning champ of songs covertly about childbirth.
He explained this some time ago. It’s more fun to hear it in conjunction with the song.
I thought closing time was more about reincarnation.
Not even Rick Beato himself could make that song either interesting or listenable.
The real mind blower about Closing Time was finding out the lead singer and songwriter, Dan Wilson, has gone on to be a prolific song writer for other artists, (Adele’s Someone Like you is probably his biggest hit, but the guy’s writing resume covers a really wide span of artists).
Um. The infant is told to finish their whiskey or beer?
Semisonic and Closing Time? Good god i’d hoped i’d never hear that song again. Still at least it wasn’t Toploader and Dancing in the Moonlight.(yeah thats right i went there.)
Facebook has just informed me that it was a year ago today that I first learned this things about “Closing Time”. So, I guess… good timing?
“According to Wilson, the hit song employs a double meaning, using the
imagery of closing time at a bar to half-earnestly, half-jokingly mirror
the anxiety of a difficult childbirth, shoving a human out into the
world whether or not they’re ready.”Come on, man.. Did you really need to ret-con your only hit from 25 years ago? Because it just comes across as a sad attempt to get a bunch of people to cough up $0.99 for it on iTunes so they can ‘listen to it in a new light’..Blech.
I would really like a quick peek at the Spotify playlists of all the Lester Bangs in these comments who somehow think goofing on Closing Time makes them cool.