Succession delivers an emotional battering ram of an episode in “Too Much Birthday”
The Roy siblings’ dysfunction reaches an agonizing low as Kendall (Jeremy Strong) turns 40.
TV Reviews Succession
I do not understand how Succession does it, but week to week, the Roys go from being loathsome and detestable and frankly absolutely the goddamn worst to the kind of relatable and tragic that makes me thankful I have people in my life who I know and love, and who know and love me back, and who wouldn’t, say, give me a tremendously impersonal gift for my birthday, or use my birthday party to further their careers, or re-enact the physically abusive dynamic of our childhood with me as their victim. I guess I am really lucky to not have to experience those things!
Sure, Kendall Roy is sitting on $2 billion worth of stock and he probably spent an ungodly amount on this birthday party, with its recreation of his mother’s vagina, the compliment tunnel, a mimicry of the treehouse from his childhood, the Tiny Wu-Tang Clan, whatever licensing rights he had to pay Billy Joel for that planned (and thankfully canceled) crucified performance of “Honesty,” on and on and on. And also sure, we have seen Kendall to be self-serving, selfish, delusional, cruel, dismissive, ignorant, negligent—he is not a good person!
But jeez, was “Too Much Birthday” an emotional battering ram of an episode, a glimpse into the lonely and alone mind of Kendall Roy, into the childhood he feels he never got, the endless competition he feels against his siblings, and the messiah complex he’s so internalized. Logan didn’t need to come to the party, but his specter lingered over it anyway—and came to life in Roman, who now firmly is in the “Damn, dude, really?” category of bad behavior on this show. The final few minutes of “Too Much Birthday” make me uncomfortable to even think about for the contrasting array of agendas and emotions pushed forward, and for how the series again switch up our perceived heroes and villains in this story.
Roman took a giggling leap toward fascism last week and takes a smirking dive into straight-up assholeness this week. Shiv, for some reason, is still doing her father’s bidding (even as he could not have been clearer in “What It Takes” that he doesn’t respect her), and she’s getting outplayed over and over by her younger brother. Tom, now potentially free from prison time, is realizing that maybe sticking with the barely tolerant Shiv isn’t actually a good thing. Connor and Willa are continuing to play at President and First Lady; let them have their fun, I guess.
And that brings us back to Kendall, who yes, I think is a joke. The tragic kind, though, the “But Doctor, I am Pagliacci” kind. I can’t help but feel sorry for this poor bastard, even if he is a true “eat the rich” mascot, for how much contempt, disinterest, and resignation comes his way from the people in his life. Jeremy Strong plays this character so well, with so many layers of woundedness and vulnerability and pompousness and greed, and screenwriters Tony Roche and Georgia Pritchett really put him through it here.
He is so happy Connor, Shiv, and Roman all come to his party, and so irritated when they don’t respond in exactly the way he wants. He projects all of his own crap onto Greg, whom he calls a parasite who feeds on his own family, and then he gets upset at Naomi when she, admittedly, gets him a weirdly detached gift. Why not just give him hash and a lathe? Seems pretty straightforward! This whole party is a reminder that no one with whom Kendall has surrounded himself genuinely cares, and he’s burned numerous bridges, and he’s tested nearly everyone’s patience.
But: What is the baseline level of kindness and empathy with which we should treat other people? Roman’s shove of the brother who defended him from his father’s physical abuse, and his ensuing laughter, is a real mask-off moment. Have ambition and success really curdled Roman so much? Director Lorene Scafaria does a great job guiding us into this party space, and—as she did in Hustlers—threading the needle between money as something that frees you and money as something that traps you.
The silly stuff, like Kendall trying to force people to give up their coats and offering them cashmere sweaters instead, or Roman and Alexander Skarsgård’s Lukas peeing on the phone taking forever to load Waystar Royco’s Stargo app. The absurd stuff, like the gigantic modern-art pieces that Kendall commissioned that show his siblings’ demises and Comfry’s description of an apartment full of He-Man lunchboxes, with accompanying receipts. And the dispiriting stuff: the Roy siblings listing all the people who weren’t there to celebrate with Kendall, and Kendall’s frantic and failed search through his presents room as he tried to find whatever Iverson and Sophie made him. I don’t want to feel this bad for Kendall, but I do! I am weak!
When “Too Much Birthday” starts, though, Kendall is full-on awful, planning his party as an exercise in “pure excess,” one that if he starts “second-guessing, it collapses.” “It’s gonna be epic,” Kendall insists, and the whole thing is like 18 different layers of irony, post-irony, and post-post-irony—enough elaborate silliness to give a philosophy grad school student a headache. (Never forget that Kendall thinks of himself as a man of the people, and so the party will be “highly egalitarian” for the working staff, as long as you “do your job.” A truly amazing little detail that harkens back to what we know Kendall did to a member of Shiv’s wedding’s wait staff in season one.)
The Roy siblings don’t plan on attending Kendall’s birthday, until Lukas—the inventor of Gojo, the streaming technology they’re trying to acquire—bails on a meeting with Logan. Since he’s on the birthday RSVP list, Roman, Shiv, and Tom decide to attend, with the former two trying to worm their way into discussing business (explicitly against Kendall’s wises, of course).
Kendall’s party is a mess: overpacked, overdesigned, overwrought. (Shout out to Justine Lupe for her perfect exasperated line delivery of “Immersive theater. I could have consulted, but whatever.”) “THE NOTORIOUS KEN: READY TO DIE,” reads the sign out front, and when the Roy siblings get inside, it’s all the same power grabbing and undermining as always. Shiv is on the outside, unaware that Logan and Roman have worked up an offer for Kendall’s shares: “Cash out and fuck off,” says the “It’s a nice thing” card Roman hands over, and Kendall, an idiot, doesn’t immediately decide to take the money and start his life anew. Instead, he mopes, telling Naomi and Rava about the offer (notice how both of them respond with the same sort of bemused politeness) and seemingly considering it, but then letting it spin him into a tizzy.
Is this really how Logan would win? Is this how close Roman is getting to the top seat, that he’s making secret deals with Daddy? And Shiv is infuriated, too, although I’m not sure why, since it’s pretty clear that Logan barely tolerates her presence, and that she really has no skills to offer Waystar Royco. Her nitpicking of Roman’s Gojo presentation really was embarrassing, and if there’s something we know about Shiv, she does not deal well with embarrassment. That’s why her Julia Stiles in 10 Things I Hate About You dance breakdown after learning of Logan and Roman’s secret share-buyout deal was so noteworthy: Shiv is angry enough that she’s making herself available for mockery, and that’s not a good sign.
Meanwhile, Roman continues his come-up, bonding with “Odin of Coding” Lukas over the crappiness of Stargo, promising that Lukas will never have to deal with Logan but will instead interact only with him if agrees to sell Gojo (a smart play), and then straight-up gloating about his achievement to his siblings. Kieran Culkin has always been great at smarm, but this is straight-up ugliness—cruel in the same way that Kendall was in that sibling meeting at Rava’s house.
To be true, Roman has an array of bad influences to choose from; Logan and Kendall have both done some phenomenally nasty things to each other over the years. And Roman molding himself in their image by thinking up moves and countermoves, and by not caring that Waystar Royco is spying on Kendall’s children and trying to involve them in the power struggle, and by trying to transfer all the bad things Logan did to him to Kendall so Roman can feel good about how close he’s getting to his father, well. It was only a matter of time. “You’re not a real person. You’re not real,” Kendall says, and to be fair, Roman’s humanity right now is pretty low! “I am the only child you’ll ever need. You can kill the others. Love you!” was a parade full of yikes.
As the Roy siblings implode, let’s pivot to Tom, who seems like he has a second chance at life now that Gerri heard from new beau Laurie that the Department of Justice investigation is weakening after Kendall’s poor interview with them. They think Waystar Royco’s greatest punishment will be “just a number,” which means Tom won’t go to prison—Logan says he will remember Tom’s offer, but until then, that means Tom and Greg are off the hook. Note that Tom doesn’t celebrate his imminent freedom with wife Shiv, but sashays himself down to Greg’s office, goes full ape on Greg’s desk and file cabinets, and then ends the altercation with a gentle kiss on Greg’s forehead. And yet old patterns die hard.
Tom wants to celebrate but can’t quite manage it (much like his bachelor party): He asks for permission from Shiv, he resents Greg for seeming happier than he is. At the end of the day, Tom might not go to jail after all—but is it crazy to think he actually might have been looking forward to it? It’s not like his marriage to Shiv is successful. It’s not like he has a lot of power in the current Roy sibling battle. It’s not like his role at ATN is really important. And if you transfer all that stuff to Shiv, it also applies. Her marriage to Tom isn’t successful. She has no power against Roman. And her role at Waystar Royco is a joke. “I think the party’s over, yeah?” is the last line of “Too Much Birthday,” and it applies to not just Kendall but Tom and Shiv, too. Maybe Kendall went after the wrong member of that marriage with his offer.
Stray Observations
- If Iverson and Sophie are using rabbit-themed wrapping paper, does that mean the rabbit survived the bagel incident? I am hopeful!
- I had wondered a few weeks ago what Naomi’s endgame was and what drew her to Kendall, and I am still wondering that! Is this just a relationship where the shared wealth and shared addiction keep them united? And even if that is the case, Naomi couldn’t think of any gift more personal or more tied to whatever months they’ve spent together? Even inspired by an inside joke or something? Bad form, Naomi.
- So many bomber jackets in this episode, and so much satin! Michelle Matland really went all out.
- Karl singing John Denver’s “Take Me Home, Country Roads”—I would pay money to watch that character watch Logan Lucky. I feel like he would be into it!
- “We’re going after Pierce again?” [insert Wee-Bey-shocked.gif]
- I really enjoy how every opinion Kerry has is clearly just something Logan said before that she’s now repeating back to him. I guess that’s one way to keep the man happy.
- Pop culture writer Emma Fraser noticed that the necklace Kendall is wearing in this episode, from the Rashid Johnson “Anxious Men” collection, is the same one Strong has been wearing on red carpets. Too much merging of actor and character, man!
- “Where’s Tabs?” Caitlin FitzGerald hasn’t appeared at all in season three, right? I sort of assumed they broke offscreen after “Dundee”?
- At this point, lines like “I got a dick the size of a Red Sequoia and I fuck like a bullet train” and “Prove it” are just fuel for the fan fic writers, and that’s absolutely fine.
- The fact that Stewy was allegedly at this party but Arian Moayed did not appear in this episode—we are being cheated!
- A lot of great things in those newspaper front pages that Kendall had made for the party, from Shiv being described only as the “wife of Tom Wambsgans” (her nightmare!) to another story about Connor taking Roman and Kendall camping. Were those early trips what inspired Connor’s “I can flee my family by embracing nature” ideology?
- It would have been nice to have more Skarsgård in this episode, but he certainly made an impact with only a few minutes. Everyone loved his “When will your father die?” from the season trailer, but now that we’ve seen more of him, I prefer his deadpan “I am not” in response to Kendall’s question about whether he was having fun, and his “privacy, pussy, pasta,” which was delightful.
290 Comments
Its hard to choose who the bigger dork was this week—-Kendall with that ridiculous party (The Notorious KEN, LMFAO) or Greg with that first failed flirtation.Oh, and my lord—Sarah Snook looked ridiculously hot in that green dress and with that hair.
I can’t believe she eventually said yes after that weird attempt at Western dialogue. Even if everyone knows it was to spite Kendall.
Greg is obviously the true stud of the Roy family.
Greg fucks. (Silicon Valley joke…)
Are there really still people out there who think that being an awkward dork is some kind of impediment to getting laid? Look at all the love for Nicholas Braun in all his awkward glory!Greg is 6’7″. I repeat: Greg is Six. Feet. Seven. Inches. Tall! I realize it’s a low bar, but Greg by far the most sexually appealing man on the show. (With the possible exception of Shiv’s politico boyfriend from season one, but he’s basically gone now.)
There’s awkward and then there’s trying to do an old timey accent, not really committing, and calling the woman a “maiden” as she’s walking away.Given Greg’s recent glow up, I thought getting a date with Comfry was totally plausible until that exact moment.
Maybe I’m just a freak, but it would not put me off a date. It wouldn’t have been a selling point either. But I would not switch from a “yes” to a “no” because of an accent bit that fell flat.
Mazel tov
STRONG agree. I mean, the actor playing Comfry is an attractive woman, don’t get me wrong. But out of Greg’s league?! Why?! Nicholas Braun is a good looking guy and, to your point, he’s TALL. To be clear, every average (or short guy) in the world dreams of being 6’7.
“You’re a—ah, uh a very fair handed, um maiden.”🤣🤣🤣
Greg didn’t fail, he has a future date with Kendall’s PR help near the end of the episode. Kendall’s chronic insanity made Greg’s nerdiness seem quaint by comparison.
“Greg didn’t fail, he has a future date with Kendall’s PR help near the end of the episode.”I was referring to the first (embarrassing attempt) when he first found out the love of his life was prepping for a hit piece on him.
Downvoted for an obvious reason. I’ll let you figure out why and where. ;-)Roman continues his transformation of the Roy you hate to love to the Roy you flat out despise. I thought he couldn’t sink any lower (via his behavior with Kendall – and more on *him* in a moment) and then we saw his behavior with Shiv.Last week a commentor on here said Roman’s nastiness has really emerged via his interactions with Shiv and I’m inclined to agree. Even for this family, his behavior is super reprehensible as of late. Per next week’s trailer, I’m really looking forward to Roman possibly being knocked down a few rungs.Speaking of the next represhsible Roy, I’d like to feel sorry for Kendall, but then I remember his treatment of Greg (and by extension, Comfrey) in this episode. I get that he’s arrested developmentally at a man half his age – hence the ridiculous birthday party shenanigans. But I also can’t get past how he can thoroughly alienate people around him.Connor & Willa believe that acting like A-holes in public (no matter how private a party like that ) is acceptable behavior for someone aiming for the White House. They also think a 1% margin is meaningful. So ridiculous delusion continues to track for those two nitwits.I’m still puzzled by the lack of empathy these recaps show for Shiv. The disrespect she’s endured has been really frustrating. And while she’s been complicit to a certain extent with her family’s business choices, I feel like the family’s lack of respect for her has been unacceptable. It’s been surprising how the recaps and a good percentage of commentors seem to think Shiv ‘deserves’ it.I love that Kendall’s BS encouraged Greg and Comfrey to consider a date with each other. And that Greg was clear-eyed enough to realize that Comfey accepted – not out of a sense of romance – but due to her being fed-up with Kendall’s behavior. Hopefully this will blossom into something legitimate.
I’m still puzzled by the lack of empathy these recaps show for Shiv.She bullied a sexual assault victim into silence.
She’s a strong, independent woman who wears a suit and gets involved in business – of course the commentariat think “she deserves it” (for almost any value of ‘it’)…Connor was an arsehole. I don’t think Willa was – I think she was legitimately defending Connor (after someone asks for the fourth or fifth time whether they can take your coat, it’s OK to get a bit tetchy). Willa is often pissed off at Connor, but I think she does also feel genuinely maternal toward him, and gets defensive when he’s hurt, even if it’s in a silly, childish way. And Connor obviously appreciates it (how many times has ANYONE stuck up for him, in his entire life!?).I don’t think Willa is delusional – I think she’s humouring Connor. Having said that, 1% sounds trivial but they’re right that it’s very impressive. If that’s for the Republican primaries, that would put him ahead of a Lindsey Graham, around about a Rick Santorum, Mike Huckabee (both in ‘16) or a Carly Fiorina. It’s too late to make an impact this year, particularly as there are no primaries, but it’s enough to get him a slot on Fox News and a book deal and to be taken mostly seriously next time. It may be enough to get him into some TV debates, if they’re doing that. Or, if this is polling for a third-party run in the general, that puts him at a similar level of support to Jill Stein. Either way, to have such high numbers without having appeared in a TV debate is genuinely impressive, and he’s right that it could well be enough to effect the result of the election in some states.
Shiv talked a rape victim from speaking out, willingly left this world’s Bernie Sanders to work with her dad and go along with their evil as far as assisting them in stopping an investigation into their unlawful, unethical behavior, embarrassed her brother on national TV, and was okay with ATN pushing far-right propaganda as long as they don’t try and run one for President. You’re surprised that anyone has any empathy for someone who willingly joined and went along with all of this for her own personal gain and greed?
Roman is vetting an active fascist to be president, is letting his misandry show via his constant baiting of Shiv, pushed a rocket launch through that wasn’t properly field tested (and could’ve killed people).ALL the Roy kids are terrible people for varying reasons.What I find fascinating is reactions such as yours and others. People come down much harder on Shiv but don’t show nearly the same type of betrayal or vitriol towards Kendall/Roman/Connor.Viewers are much quicker to excuse away or rationalize their bad behavior then they will hers.
I and no one here is being harder on Shiv. We’re all saying to stop trying to paint her as some unfortunate victim when she is not. She willingly signed up to all of this when had the option to stay out and away, but she willingly left Bernie Sanders to help her father partake in all of this evil for her own terrible and greedy reasons. Yes, all of the Roy kids are terrible people for varying reasons, so Shiv does not get or deserve more sympathy or vitriol than the others.
“People come down much harder on Shiv but don’t show nearly the same type of betrayal or vitriol towards Kendall/Roman/Connor.”Agreed. It is odd. And equally odd is this seemingly accepted notion that Shiv isn’t good at her job (Roxana apparently agrees). Where is this coming from? We don’t know if she’s good or bad at her job because the men in the family thwart her from doing it at every turn! Isn’t that the point of this season? Not that she’s bad but that she’s being shut out?
And tossed an open relationship on someone clearly not into the idea, was sleeping around on the side, and walks into every situation with the air of superiority even though she’s newest in the game. Her entire relationship with Tom revolves around the idea that she can do whatever she wants and he can do whatever she wants and then she still mostly acts annoyed and derisively dismissive toward him.
Shiv as hard done by and best of the rest is a hard pass. She fits right in.
“Oh by the way Tom we have an open marriage”
I think part of it is Shiv’s “limousine liberal” shtick proving completely hollow, which I suspect many in the audience find particularly galling. But I also think part of it is the sense that Shiv endured less childhood abuse than Kendall or Roman. I think it is clear she by no means escaped unscathed, but I suspect for many it makes her a somewhat less sympathetic character.
I agree. Which I find WILD as Roman as made himself the most arguably reprehensible Roy sibling based on behavior. That people are less sympathetic to Shiv solely that she is a hypocrite is mind boggling.Yes, she’s a hypocrite to crucial issues, but she I’d chose Shiv any day over (this current) iteration of Roman. He’s really shown himself to be a nasty piece of work of late.Part of me do wonder if sexism does come into play with regards to people’s criticism of Shiv.
I think the argument is that, objectively, she’s no worse than Roman, but is being treated so much worse by Logan – ostensibly because she isn’t as “experienced”, but really because Logan has even less respect for her because she’s a girl. He doesn’t trust her decisions or counsel.I don’t necessarily find her character sympathetic, but I do think that Logan treats her as “less than” when compared to her brothers, particularly Roman at this point.
It’ll will end with the two of them betraying Kendall in big way. Like Comfey giving Greg big inside dirt on Kendall to take back to the Roys.
I was embarrassed for Ken in the opening minutes, I thought “My God they’re topping the rap he did in Dundee for cringe”. Then I got a tiny bit choked up at Tom realizing he won’t go to prison. Ken saying “I wish I was at home”. Yeah Naomi’s gift was lame. At least get it engraved. Geesh. Greg’s first attempt at asking Compfrey (sp) out, and I knew she’d acquiesce in the end. Like “Fuck this bullshit, I can vent to this guy”. Roman is a pathetic little shit. At least Shiv recognized what Logan was doing to Kendall’s kids is fucked up. I love the tip off we get in the preview for next week. Take that you little asshole. Sarah’s hair looked amazing. The bob was getting boring. She needs to stay away from pastels and wear jewel tones. She looked so much better this week with the blue suit and green dress.
I wonder how much of Naomi’s gift to Kendall was a parallel to Tom’s gift to Logan in the first season – “I dunno, just get him a watch”.
My vote for King Dork goes to Kendall. He’s in another galaxy in terms of how clueless and unaware he is of his own self. A real buffoon.
I think near the end of the episode he started realizing how ridiculous it all was when he decided against doing the Billy Joel Crucifix act.
OMG, that crucifix!! We had max cringe at his rehearsal, I wondered if they would have broken me had he actually gone out there and performed with the crucifix!
Oh for sure. The biggest dork. And the least self-aware. You need look no further than this: He’s a white billionaire who named his son…Iverson. That’s all you need to know, really.But…if you need more proof you don’t have to look far. It’s all in his clothes, 100% of the time. The episode where he took the pitch meeting with the artists and wore those tennis shoes. The chains. The embroidered bomber jackets. So much of his posturing is through clothes, and it’s all affectation. Even the plain baseball cap is an imitation of his father’s look. Kendall doesn’t have his own style. He’s always parachuting into other people’s looks and personas, because he fundamentally doesn’t know who he is. So he always looks fake and dorky when he’s trying to be hip. And he always looks like a little boy trying on his dad’s suit when he’s trying to be a shark.
Agreed. And put on a tie for fuck’s sake!
Well, one of them got a date. The other cuddled up, shellshocked, in an A-Team blanket.
Got it. A-Team FTW!
Shiv, for some reason, is still doing her father’s bidding (even as he could not have been clearer in “What It Takes” that he doesn’t respect her), and she’s getting outplayed over and over by her younger brother.
A: I believe Roman is older than her, andB: I think it makes perfect sense that Shiv is still doing her father’s bidding, the entire impetus of the show is how his abuse breeds in his children a need to please in a desperate bid for love they’re never gonna get.
Look, Roman is spiritually the baby of the family no matter what the Wikipedia says.
How? Shiv, until she started messing around in the business, was Logan’s clear favorite as the youngest, whereas Roman was languishing in classic forgotten middle child purgatory.
I meant because Roman is the most immature in terms of personality. But if it comes to that, being the joker/class clown and attempting to get negative attention when one can’t get positive attention are the traits typically associated with the youngest in traditional birth order psychology.The middle child is much more likely to be resentful about getting bumped out of the baby spot—but not out in the open because they’re always secretly hoping that one day they’ll be singled out as someone special once again. That totally sounds like Shiv.I mean, birth order psychology is pseudoscience and has been widely debunked. Then again, as the child of two people who were middle children of the only gender in their families, a lot of the sibling dynamics involving Shiv feel familiar to me.
It’s really annoying how people understand the way Logan’s abuse shaped Kendall’s entire life, and yet when Shiv is manipulated and abused in the same way everyone shrugs and goes “I guess she’s just a stupid cunt.”
Yes, I noticed the disproportionate Shiv hate in S2 reviews here. I don’t want to use the “sexism” charge, but it does feel like that sometimes.
The comments about Tom’s response to Shiv saying she doesn’t want to get pregnant right now being OK/understandable because it’s further proof she isn’t fully committed to their relationship have been especially hard to take.
To be clear, if you’re talking about me: I said that Tom’s response to her not wanting to get pregnant was understandable because it probably seems to him to be further proof she isn’t fully committed to their relationship. I actually don’t think it is proof she isn’t committed. I’m probably one of the few here who actually want those crazy kids to be happy together, and I think they’re probably both more committed to the relationship than they realise. [I do think Siobh is confused about what she wants, and that she does feel resentment toward Tom and fear about falling into his shadow, and I don’t think commitment for her looks like traditional monogamy (and I hope the show doesn’t decide to have her ‘turn good’ by accepting monogamy per se). But I do think she feels some commitment to Tom (I think that’s a big part of the problem, for her!), and I do think their relationship can work out.](incidentally, while she’s not ready to accept monogamy officially, I notice she hasn’t apparently slept with anyone else since their argument last season; I think that in S1, that longing gaze at the bar this week would have been at the handsome stranger standing on the dancefloor, rather than at the dancing itself… clearly, she’s not done a great job of recognising Tom’s fears and reassuring him, but I do think she’s trying…)
The character and the writers who created her spell it “Shiv.”
I’m not subtweeting anyone, just offering my own gloss on what seemed to be the general consensus.
lol exactly and the comparisons to Ivanka Trump were fucking moronic.
Why are you hesitant to use the sexism charge? If it feels like sexism, it’s usually sexism.
I was just thinking that tonight. I felt bad for her, which is rare, and I think that’s because we often see vulnerability from Kendall and Roman, but it’s unusual to see that from Shiv, so she can be harder to feel sympathy for. She probably thinks there’s nothing worse than vulnerability.
It does replicate the dynamics of the show, FWIW. I mean, you’d hope people who have been watching Succession for three seasons wouldn’t need to be told not to emulate the Roys, but here we are.
Logged in just to agree with this comment
I’m not seeing that response to Shiv. I think it’s pretty well understood and has been expressed in the reviews and comments how Logan has treated and manipulated Shiv.
It’s more in the fanbase at large than here.
Ah, okay. This is the only place I “interact” with the fanbase so that would explain it.
Yeah, but I think there’s a significant group of people who see the mistreatment/manipulation of Kendall and Roman, and they say “oh… they’re so abused.” But when they see the mistreatment/manipulation of Shiv, they say “I don’t get her, why is she putting up with that??”I think some of that has to do with the way we (generally, societally) perceive women differently from men. But it also has to do with the fact that initially Shiv presented herself as separate from, and smarter/more moral than, her family. That was a front of course, but some viewers seem unable to shake that first impression, no matter how many times the show drives home the point that she’s lived her whole life under her father’s thumb, just like her brothers.
I think that early presentation (which I think is the entire first season) where she was trying to stand apart from the company is what makes me think she could do better. And I assume that’s what others are thinking too. All the kids should do better, but she both could and did for a time.Connor is out of the business, but he’s also out of reality. The other boys haven’t shown much ability to do anything that isn’t tied to the company and their dad. Shiv has. Given what we’ve seen her give up in order to move into the company, it’s almost even more sad than the others.
Agree. A podcast host pointed out that Shiv isn’t really losing, she’s being abused emotionally by Logan, probably because she points out things he knows are true but doesn’t want to hear. She got the deal with the Sandys and Stewie, she railed against the fascist last week. We want somebody to tell Logan “buy me out and fuck off”, but so far their need to be loved by a father who will never love them is over ruling their common sense to get as far away from their father as humanly possible.
I also think that Roman was partially right. She might not have thought it out loud, as it were, but this whole season she’s had this attitude of “the boys are going to Get Their Comeuppance, and I’ll be able to take over”. She’s not necessarily been angling for Logan to give her control, as she was last year – she’s been trying to put herself in a place where she can legitimately take over in her own right once Logan dies or goes to prison.
what we know Kendall did to a member of Shiv’s wedding’s wait staff in season one.Eh, the kid grabbed the steering wheel and caused the crash. I don’t really think Kendall did anything to him.Sure pretending it never happened was horrible, but it’s not like Kendall killed him.
I have been saying this all along. Kendall even dove back under water to try to get to the car.Yes, he should have gone to the police. But the boy would have been dead either way. It was a tragic accident but he didn’t kill the boy.
Except in the whole felony-murder way, in that they wouldn’t have been there if they hadn’t been taking illegal drugs together…
Oh, there is a felony or three in there. But the kid grabbed the steering wheel to miss the deer. There’s failure to report an accident, driving while under the influence, leaving the scene of an accident, etc.
Did they take drugs together? I don’t recall. I know they were going to acquire drugs. Also does felony murder work that way? Like I’ve never heard of it being used to go after someone whose buddy ODed next to them. Not an expert though.
Kendall had already been snorting cocaine that night and I think the kid did some ketamine iirc.
Fully agree.
Even if it wasn’t exactly Kendall’s fault, Logan was right when he said that the only thing that Kendall would be remembered for was that he was the rich kid who got someone else killed.
Yeah, probably. I was actually reading about Chappaquiddick recently and it’s so much more horrible than this. The poor woman was probably alive for a couple hours in an air pocket and could have been saved it Kennedy had called for help. Different time, I guess, but he seemed to weather that pretty well.
It really sounds like, despite all his flaws, Connor did all he could to care for his brothers. #Conhead4va
He came out the winner in this episode as the most likeable Roy and by having the healthiest relationship anyone in the Roy family has with another human, as far as him and Willa.
It was nice they had the little moment where Willa stood up for him, just to show not every relationship on the show is toxic.
It is a nice moment, but let’s remember, she is paid to be his girlfriend.
She is paid but I think she’s warming up to him or at least getting used to the idea that this is her life. Possibly not dissimilar to how, I don’t know, a mail order bride married to a former president might feel.
And given that he’s a delusional libertarian presidential candidate who threw a tantrum about a jocular reference to something that happen 30 years ago, and that Willa is a courtesan, that’s really kind of saying something!
A week or two ago there was someone suggesting that Kendall would end up with confessing his manslaughter in order to take Roy down with him and I like I guess most people didnt think that was likely , but man Ken is scraping the emotional bedrock here, and I am not sure if that option isnt beginning to become appealing for him now.Or maybe somehowhe will pin it on Roman, that Roy son is flying close to the sun right now
Kendall upset about missing Sophia and Iverson’s present got to me. “They made it for me… supposedly.” It reminded me of when he did his (admittedly awful) L-to-the-O-G rap for Logan’s birthday. Personal birthday presents apparently matter to Kendall.L to the O G. L to the O G. Tom also bought Logan a watch to try and impress him in the first episode. Logan almost immediately gave it, and a non-disclosure agreement, to a little kid and his family after Roman was a total fucking asshole to them. Watches don’t seem to be good presents and don’t even get my started on Greg and his watch.
It’s because he’s so desperate for love and acceptance from a blood relative.
A watch is just an obviously terrible present for someone who can afford whatever they want. It’s like giving a rich person an Amazon gift card.
A watch is worse than a bad present – it’s an OK present. It’s the present you get someone (in the world of Succession) when you want to get them an OK present that they can’t actively dislike and that make it look like you remembered to do the presenting, but when you haven’t actually put any great thought into it. It’s the billionaire version of getting someone a rather bland tie.That said, I don’t think there’s anything Naomi could have given him that he WOULD have liked. He’s all hope and expectation – when anything becomes real, it dissatisfies him.
All hope and expectation, great way to put it
Man, the piling on about the watch here is blowing my mind. Clearly Kendall is a materialistic ass, given this whole episode takes place in a wildly expensive physical manifestation of his ego. What the hell DO you get someone like that? And Naomi’s clearly really nervous and uncomfortable about it, basically apologizing for the gift before he opens it. I thought his reaction was cruel, and mostly an outlet for his impotent rage towards his family and his seemingly-failing crusade.
Yeah, getting more of the emperor without clothes vibes from how his staff and Naomi treat Kendall this week felt pointed. Everything is a non-answer because they have no idea what he wants or expects. Which makes both his Greg dressing down and the “not a real person” line to Roman so fascinating, as he’s both not really wrong about his targets but also talking about himself. Which thematically fits so beautifully considering the whole party is an outward manifestation of his insecurities and privilege.
I dunno, I feel like it would have been pretty easy for Naomi to just go the 80’s nostalgia route, which Ken is very clearly into from his obsession with He-Man lunchboxes, and whatever was on that blanket he was wrapped in at the end of the episode. Go on E-bay and find some extremely limited edition Transformers action figures or Marty McFly’s shoes or something. Easy slam dunk.
Agreed, it’s a slam dunk…if you’re a person capable of forming meaningful and empathetic connections with people. I’m not sure Kendall or Naomi are capable of that. They’re both broken and, what’s worse, they’re broken in the same ways. I keep remembering that their relationship basically started as a mutual falling off the wagon, while giving the middle finger to their fucked-up, rich families. The foundation of their relationship was a sort of mutual enabling.
“I thought his reaction was cruel, and mostly an outlet for his impotent rage towards his family and his seemingly-failing crusade.”No kidding, right? That people are reading that scene as “well, Kendall is right here because watches suck” is fucking weird.
A nice pair of socks.
“I already have a watch”-Kendall
Edited to delete because right after I posted, I saw that Wastrel had pretty much said exactly what I was saying except in more detail yesterday. Though I’m not sure an okay present is worse than a bad present.
Nothing came close to the look on Logan’s face after Connor gave him a sour dough starter kit.
This may not have been one of Tom’s more endearing episodes (although I truly think “none of this will amount to anything, Tom will learn nothing” has been in the cards for a while), but I really appreciated Matthew Macfayden’s coke jaw on the ride home. That was a nice touch.
And apparently he’s packing a sequoia.
Maybe not tonight. He took the wrong drugs in the wrong order, apparently. 😉
More like a weeping willow, no? Lol
I see an Emmy in his future.
Agree. Last week and this week was a bounty of Emmy reel for MacFayden. And Jeremy Strong sewed up his nod as well. They are probably the two best actors on tv right now. I hope Strong has a way to decompress after filming.
I also thought it was super interesting that the writers went out of their way to mention that Stewy attended the party but didn’t put him in the episode. It really reinforces how lonely Kendall is. Of all the characters – not to make him sound like he’s at all a good person – he’s perhaps the most haunted by the realization that nobody really cares about him.
This brutally heartbreaking episode gave me the notion that the thing that makes this show pure fiction is that in real life super-rich assholes who control the world absolutely are not miserable and don’t hate themselves.The only bright spot we got was shy Greg asking Comfry out and she saying yes, even if, as Greg noted, it might have been for the wrong reason. But all the others saying he was out of her league? Job-wise maybe, but Greg is a very good-looking tall boy!Yeah, right before the final scenes I was thinking Roman wasn’t like any of the Trump kids because he’s much smarter and more perceptive—the King’s Fool—but then he became very vile and maybe he is like them. Or maybe they’re a teensy bit better at not being incredible assholes to each other at least.The Connor’s jacket plotline could have been in Curb Your Enthusiasm.
If you don’t think rich people, even VERY rich people who control the world, are not miserable and don’t hate themselves then you need to meet more of these people. Some of the most miserable pricks you will find anywhere.
Yeah, Elon Musk has 100 times more money than he could ever hope to spend and he spends all day sending snide tweets about the mother of his son, for the approval of random people. Deeply miserable man.
What! Grimusk split up?! Lol
Yep. Money is nice, especially if you never had it at some point in your life. For those super rich people, none of them (except maybe Warren Buffett) seem especially happy to me. I honestly don’t that worthless cunt Trump has ever been happy.
I work for a family owned business and I can confirm who is miserable.
Some rich people are probably happy… but they’re probably not the sort of rich people who regularly hang around at drug-fuelled birthday parties in Manhattan trying to make business deals. The genuinely rich people I suspect will have an hour a week discussion with their stockbroker, and spend the rest of their time on family, dogs, overseeing their philantrophic institution, and their woodworking hobby. In a very big house with no neighbours and a great view…Attending Kendall’s parties basically screams “I want to escape from my life”…
Correct. There are plenty of super-rich, happy people in the world. They are happy because they do good things and don’t seek the “limelight”.Ironically (and yet very true), it’s only the shallow and sad that seek validation through attention, which is much easier to get with money. The problem is not money, it’s insecurity. That’s why there are so many misconceptions about “rich” people, most people only get to see the shittiest.
To be fair, rich people probably are more likely to be shitty: most of them have either climbed the greasy pole (which tends to mean ruthless ambition at best, if not outright sociopathy) or have grown up stupidly rich (which poses big obstacles for developing empathy and realism). But yes, I think you’re right that it’s usually the worst who are visible, and there are probably some perfectly good ones out there too. [if you look at English history, for instance, it’s not hard to find genuinely decent aristocrats, even if they were the minority among their peers]
To be fair as well, I think that is a misconception.Most rich people, or families, aren’t “shitty”. It’s only the assholes that are terrible. Which tends to be stable across all demographics. It just depends on where one’s focus lies. There are plenty of “shitty” people everywhere, and that has nothing to do with money.
No, I’m sorry. Go cape for the wealthy elsewhere. Obviously you can’t paint any economic demographic with a complete brush. There are obviously some very lovely people with enough money to never have to think about money. But by and large the rich are, in my experience, more likely to be entitled and unkind. Even the “good ones” (and I’m thinking of one specific relatively visible billionaire here I had some experience around but it’s a story that applies to many) are more likely to treat people they don’t perceive as mattering like shit.I can’t imagine anyone regularly interacting with that particular echelon of society and not coming away with a net negative opinion. If you’re caping for them (a group less in need of defending than anyone alive) it says a lot about you one way or another.
… kinda like the Pierces …
I think some hate themselves (looking at the photos of Don Jr. over the last 4-5 years kind of says it all), but the difference with fictional characters is we can make them our own. We can write their endings, if we wish. Or we can just say, “Oh, I am only watching for the actor.” You can’t do that with real assholes.
It’s funny, isn’t it?, how Greg’s height is used against him time and again, like when Greg said his height might make him a target in prison. Greg is so uncomfortable being tall that he is perpetually crouching, and everyone makes disparaging remarks about it. If Greg would just learn to stand up straight and embrace the advantages towering over everyone else give him, he’d be a lot better off. But that wouldn’t be Greg, at least not as he is now.
I do think there are some wealthy people who are relatively sane and happy, but that ends long before you get to Roy levels of rich. There is no way you make billions of dollars in one lifetime without doing some incredibly unethical things (e.g., screwing over a business partner, exploiting low-wage workers, destroying the environment, etc.) and repeatedly choosing work over time with friends, family or anything else besides work. This does not tend to be a recipe for happiness.Even if you are the kind of sociopathic person who wants to do nothing but make money, you don’t get to make a billion dollars if any amount is enough. Instead, you’re always going to be focusing on whomever may be left who has more than you, as well as fighting off smaller competitors who are gunning for you. A good real-life example of this is the book The New New Thing. A big part of it is about how Larry Ellison decides to start a new company instead of retiring with his billions of dollars and private island because some other billionaire has built a yacht that is larger than his.
Why wouldn’t they be miserable? Money only brings happiness to a certain extent. Once you have enough money that you don’t have to worry about shelter, food, debt, etc it really doesn’t add much happiness to your life. If someone makes 30k a year and you bump them up to like 100k they will be super happy because they don’t have to stress over money as much and its a life changing amount. If you turn a millionaire into a billionaire what really changes for them? A bigger house and a bigger car?
Roman, who now firmly is in the “Damn, dude, really?” category of bad behavior on this show.
Only now? He’s a cretin and always has been. Roman’s the character I hate the most, and I really wanted Kendall to hit him at the end. But I will say the way he was able to finagle Lukas was actually impressive. The more confident he’s getting the more dangerous he’s getting.(Of course, there’s also a lot to unpack with the “You’re not a real person” line, and who’s saying it, and the kind of party this guy just threw himself.)
Tom’s behavior was interesting. (Way to go, Greg, btw) I don’t think he was looking forward to jail, but I do think he liked the status it gave him. The irony of being the disposable, sacrificial lamb was it made him a bit more important than he’d been. Plus the prospect of it making he and Shiv a little closer. (or so he hoped?) With him free, it’s back to where they were, their problems haven’t gone anywhere, and it sucks, because there goes what extra little attention and tenderness she had been giving him.
I don’ t know about the “always has been” part. It’s true that he’s had enough despicable moments threaded through the earlier episodes that his recent heel turn hasn’t felt like it came out of left field. (Speaking of which, see the whole “million dollar home run” fiasco in the pilot.)But there have also been plenty of genuinely sympathetic moments, like rescuing Kendall from his drug binge in S1 or wanting to have real conversations with his siblings during the end of S2. I guess it’s possible to read his recent shittiness as partly a product of his siblings’ rejection in addition to Logan’s manipulation. I’ve also gotten the sense that Roman is the most spontaneous and authentic of the Roy children–for better and for worse.
I think a lot of Roman’s story this season can be traced back to that “real conversations” scene on the boat in S2. It seems very much that moment was a turning point for him. He realized that any chance at forming genuine connections with his siblings was gone, and if they were just going to treat him as a caddish joke then he might as well lean into it and use that image to his advantage.
I just commented up above that I don’t think he’s authentic at all. He doesn’t allow any negative criticism to stick; he always throws it right back. Which could be said of many people on the show, but Roman practically trades in it. He has a built-in “fuck you” rebuttal for everything, and I’ve been getting tired of it honestly. And he refuses to acknowledge that he has a super unhealthy relationship with his dad. He sticks up for his dad so much when he clearly doesn’t deserve it. All this makes for a very un-self-aware person in my book.
I get that the word “authentic” carries a lot of baggage in the current age, although I’ve never seen it linked to the idea of deflecting vs. accepting criticism before. I meant it mostly in the sense that I think Roman is true to himself in terms of being in touch with what he wants and acting on his feelings/desires without a lot of delusion or regret. He makes a lot of instinctive, snap-judgement decisions as opposed to having some sort of master strategy or image that he’s trying to uphold. And honestly, while I’m not a Roman fan, I think a lot of his “fuck you” rebuttals involve calling his siblings out on their BS because he sees what they really want/feel when they can’t admit it to themselves. Whatever his extremely real personality flaws, I think he recognizes himself and his family for the assholes they are.
That’s a good point. He seems to have fewer delusions of grandeur than the others, and indeed from a business perspective is a bit inclined to undersell himself, which has enabled him to rise.
That’s all true! And yeah authentic is definitely a loaded term. I meant more along the lines of he never looks at himself in the mirror and realizes how fucked up he is; or his relationship with his father. People definitely call him out on how unhealthy it is, but he doesn’t stop and think about how right they are. I get that years of trauma and abuse will do that to a person. But Kendall’s “you’re not a real person” to me spoke about how he really, really, really refuses to look at the bad parts of himself. He’s not authentic with *himself* is what I meant.
I think Roman is very self aware when it comes to how fucked up he is, especially when it comes to his relationship is. It’s why he vetoes all of the questions about their relationship with that reporter and cracks jokes about it all of the time. It’s just that he accepts, even embraces those parts of his personality as opposed to feeling guilt or trying to change them.
Mmmm I don’t see that as conclusive evidence. I see deflection and redirection in cracking jokes (he can never meaningfully take the piss out of or stand up to his father. He makes jokes about his father fucking a lot, which everyone points out as being really weird lol, and he doesn’t ever seem to examine why) and again avoiding thinking about it by vetoing questions. But that’s just my take.
Like I said–we disagree. Although we also seem to be talking about completely different aspects of Roman’s personality.
Roman is very smart… but, like many people, he is very foolish. [he’s great at reading people and seizing the moment, but he’s terrible at bearing in mind the broader context and the long-term view.]And yes, he’s always been despicable. The show is just a long catalogue of the horrible things he’s done, both personal and public. Yes, he’s sympathetic because he’s so pathetic, and yes, like the others, he has moments of humanity, but fundamentally he’s always been an arsehole.
One of the most frustrating aspects of Roman’s behavior in this episode was that nothing his siblings said to him seemed to bother him. He was so high up on his own pedestal after his meeting with the GoJoGo guy, nothing could touch him.EXCEPT Kendall’s, “You’re not a real person” — that appeared to be the only thing that really pushed Roman’s buttons and it looked like it was the main reason why he shoved his brother to the floor. Lots to unpack there…
I *loved that cuz it’s so true. He has no visible range of emotion other than sardonic “fuck you”-isms.
I think it was both the success high and being drunk—like multiple drinks drunk. People do engage in extreme behavior while drunk that they regret or would like to take back later. I know that is stating the obvious but it bears remembering w/r/t the shoving scene.
I am 100% convinced that Matsson is toying with Roman and that this will all backfire on Roman sooner rather than later. That all happened way too easily in that weird treehouse. We know Matsson was bored at the party, and if the show has taught us anything it’s that when rich people get bored, they look for someone to fuck with. In the absence of pussy, Matsson will fuck with Roman, and probably use it as a fishing expedition to gain some leverage for a future deal (or to fuck over Roman/Waystar later). Like all the Roy children, Roman thinks he’s a better dealmaker than he is. While Logan’s refusal to leave the company is driven 95% by ego, I firmly believe the other 5% of his refusal is due to his understanding that each of his children are fundamentally unfit to lead the company. Nevermind that the children are what he made them.
What a fucking episode. Roman showing that PoS act has some real venom, when he applies himself. Truly despicable, human being. A+
Brutal. Just brutal.Also, can we talk about Kerry? Is she meant to be another of Logan’s playthings, or do we think she’s going to be the Wendi Deng of this saga? It will be interesting to see how Marcia reacts when she catches wind of Logan’s growing closeness with his assistant.
Marcia just had a couple zeroes added to her paycheck. She’ll be fine.
But she doesn’t like being embarrassed or made to look foolish.
Sure, but it will still be fun to watch the fireworks.
For all that some people are complaining that there’s not enough character development or whatever, the show’s done a brilliant job slowly and subtly weaselling Kerry into Logan’s inner circle.
Yup. So good. And only Shiv seems to have any inkling of the potential threat that relationship poses.
YES. Everyone else treats it as Logan being Logan, he’s done it before…but Shiv sees something different this time.Almost a metaphor for how to think about the show, huh?
Yep. And the irony is that she’ll never be head of the company. She should just walk away from this toxic stew, already.
Some of us here last week were talking about how this show is settling into a repetitive rhythm, and this episode confirms it. We’re back to sad Kendall again after he fucked up again from yet another huge egotrip again. Shiv continues get punched down on by her father and Roman, but does nothing about it and keeps staying with them. I figured that Tom was going to be okay, and now that he is, he’s back to punching down on Greg and being human furniture. Greg continues to be treated as a gimmick, as his actions of trying to play all sides don’t seem to have any serious consequences other than losing his inheritance which he doesn’t seem to be too bothered about. Logan continues to be Logan as that expensive divorce from Marcia or his health issues don’t seem to be bothering him one bit either. Roman seems to be the one actually having a character arc this season going from just bad but sympathetic, to completely execrable.
I get it that this isn’t really a show where people learn lessons and change, but it would be nice if they did and took some risks. Kendall and Shiv are at major turning points in their lives and it would be interesting if the writers let them learn or change or grow.
I think we need to let the rest of the season play out before Kendall’s continuous loses get written off as repetitive. I’m convinced he’s actually going to kill himself this time.
I don’t know about that. But I will admit, I was legit nervous during that last scene on the balcony.
I was too and he’s been spending more and more time on the balcony as the season goes on.
As Kendall was breaking down after looking for his kids’ present, he said: “I wish I was…..[long pause]…I wish I was home.” I thought for sure he was going to say “I wish I was dead.” That really felt like rock bottom, even for Ken.
Eh, he aint going to kill himself. This isn’t that kind of show. Either he’ll take the billion buyout and then try to rebel against Logan again, or go back groveling to Logan again asking for forgiveness and Logan actually grants it. Or maybe what the rest of the internet is predicting that he’ll turn himself in for the manslaughter charge in order to bring down Logan.
I also get the feeling this series ends with Kendall putting a gun in his mouth. (And if so, that would make an event like this birthday bash land a lot differently). But to Jox’s point, these episodes have a repetative rhythm- Which might be why it’s so easy for some critics to liken Succession to a sitcom. The characters have status quos that seem to contantly be reset
Nah…he’s hit rock bottom, and now he’s going to climb back up.
Absolutely. When he says to Naomi, “I wish I was…” and trails off. He was definitely thinking “dead” but ended up saying “home” instead.
I feel like we are getting somewhere in the slow burn with Tom/Shiv/Greg. Shiv knows more every week that she can’t go anywhere at Waystar. Shiv and Tom have lost all rapport with each other, their sex life is marred by a complete lack of trust after the babytrapping, and they may be near a point where Logan ends up prioritizing Tom over her, which would be the last straw. Meanwhile, the dynamics of Tom’s fixation/relationship with Greg are shifting away from him. A few episodes ago he could only try to fight Greg to get his attention. Now he gives him a kiss on the forehead to, I guess, acknowledge the old ways don’t work anymore. Then at the party, you had Greg challenging Tom on his alleged sexual prowess, rather than an old Greg type, “Wow, that’s crazy,” response. Then when Greg tells Tom he got a date, rather than Tom making a show of congratulating him or making crude remarks about how he didn’t even know Greg had a dick, or whatever, Tom just flat out fumes and says Greg has ruined his happiness. Both of Tom’s crutches in Shiv and Greg are going or gone. Tom is ready to fully boil over, and I wonder if he will make it to the end of the season without doing so.I do think Kendall is stuck in a loop, to the show’s detriment. It’s mostly just Jeremy Strong who is keeping Kendall afloat as a character and giving any reason to care about him.
I don’t think Kendall is in a loop, at least in a short term; I think he’s been riding a manic bubble and it’s about to burst (or has just burst). Previous setbacks this season have all just been ploughed straight through, mostly through denial and trying to cut the ‘toxic personalities’ out of his life. This week he broke. Not just in ending so despairing, but also in hitting some reality: he took a step back and realised “no, having myself crucified to a hanging cross above a birthday party while singing Billy Joel songs to myself IS FUCKING NUTS”, which is a level of awareness he hasn’t had this season.In the long term, of course, it’s true that Kendall does go through loops. He swings between mania and depression – he’s probably bipolar, or at least has major psychological issues that cause him to mirror that (fueled by the incompatibility of the different images of the self that he’s trying to live up to, and turbocharged by drug addiction). [is it just me or is his disappointment with the watch even greater because Naomi is someone he associates with his wild, drug-taking side, and having her be boring and respectable like that was a disappointment. In the moment, he looked desparate for something to hook his attention away from the anxiety over the lost present (i.e. over his failure as a father)]. He was on a high in S1, in a low in S2, and in a high in S3 again; we know he also probably went through a cycle before S1 (which he, but not Logan, glosses over as a drug problem that required rehab*). He also seems to have elements of Borderline in his personality – the way he sees everything in polarised terms, and his relationships flip between smothering closeness and repulsion – c.f. his lawyer’s comments on how he flipped between acting high-handed/defensive and over-familiar (the perceptive comments that he fired her for).So it’s unrealistic to expect Kendall to wake up one morning and just not be mentally ill anymore; people don’t work like that. But I do think he’s getting increasingly aware of his problems (when he lets himself admit them) and their causes. I don’t think the Kendall of S1, for instance, let alone that of S2, would even remotely have considered just cashing out and moving to Marrakesh. [I don’t think he’s going to do that now, either, but I do think he’s at least genuinely seeing the attraction of it].(I don’t think Kendall is going to physically kill himself. But I do wonder whether he’s going to do so metaphorically, by accepting that he has to come clean about the death.)
*back in S1, Logan looked like the insensitive dinosaur for saying Kendall had had a mental breakdown (or whatever insensitive phrase he used), when Kendall and the others say he just went into rehab. But by S3, it kind of looks like Logan was the insightful one – I’m sure Kendall did have a drug problem, but I also suspect that the erratic behaviour that led to his sudden need for rehab was just as much about his underlying mental health issues as about the drugs…
I think this is beautifully stated (probably more than my somewhat glib comment deserved, so thanks for opening my eyes a bit). My issue is more that I don’t entirely feel the patterns you describe have been depicted as well this season as they could have been. I think the 9 episode runtime hurts the story’s progression because at various points it has just felt stagnant for me without as much insight as you have provided. I kind of wish they had moved the birthday party up an episode, had Kendall go off the grid for a week, then had him return in dramatic fashion next week (as the previews show him doing).
Excellent catch on his reaction to Naomi having a gift! He must see her as a kind of drug :/
The “Kendall is going to OD or jump by the end of season 3″ fan theory is gaining traction with me now.
Did you also think Don Draper was going to jump off a building in Mad Men? (A lot of people were convinced the opening credit sequence was foreshadowing Don jumping to his death at some point.)
I can see TOM going office-postal type thing, if I think it out. Or assaulting Greg badly enough to get like, arrested and fired. Something a little wacky that he’ll have to come back from (like mass murder, I guess?)
Yeah, we’re basically two seasons in and I’m hardstruck to name anything of consequence that has happened.Outside of sitcoms, I can’t think of any shows that have spent soooo much time dangling the possibility of change over the heads of terrible people, only to rip it out and reset over and over.Wait, is this show Seinfeld?
It’s less Seinfeld and more Veep or The White Lotus. Let’s look at and laugh at all of these terrible rich and powerful people who screw themselves and others over without any serious consequence.
I think this sort of character exploration isn’t that unusual. For a start, network shows used to be locked into it – all the characters on Succession have probably changed more in three cable seasons than House ever managed in eight network seasons!But it’s also true of a lot of prestige drama. Six Feet Under spent five seasons with people on the verge of change and then backing out of it. The Sopranos at least took a long time to have any real change (I never watched it all the way through) – I mean, there’s two whole seasons of Tony being unable to stand up to his mother. How much did anybody really change on Deadwood? Calamity Jane never got sober; Swearengen never had a change of heart. The world around them changed, but they just got older. Even a show like Breaking Bad only ever really dug into the characters, rather than changing them (Walter was like that all along, he just didn’t want to admit it); Better Call Saul is sort of changing Jimmie and Kim – but nobody else, and they’re changing very, very slowly (Jimmie is now coming up to the point that the writers and audience thought he’d be at at the end of S1, before they backed away from that).
It helps to remember that Succession is a comedy.
Isn’t the point in part that the Roy siblings’ relationships with Logan are screwed up because Logan was (and is) abusive? In that case, it makes sense that they would continue to go in circles and find it impossible to break the cycle. That said, something has to give. For a moment, I really thought Kendall was going to throw himself off the balcony at the end of the episode.
Disagree. It’s not that the characters are unbothered, this just isn’t a show that portrays every single moment of a character’s life onscreen. We have no idea what is bothering Logan because he was barely in the episode, and he’s also in crisis mode trying to save the company.Greg literally tried to sue his grandfather, and is so desperate to get back his inheritance, that he is suing Greenpeace. It’s just that the anxiety of being thrown under the bus, and potentially going to jail, was, understandably, a more pressing matter.We saw Shiv reach a breaking point, with Logan and Roman. Becoming visibly upset, for the first time. But Logan’s abuse runs deep, so it’s hard to break free. She’s also extremely ambitious, and competitive, so she can’t let Roman win.Kendall’s delusions kind of ended all at once, when he realized just how dirty Logan and Roman were willing to play to beat him. Obviously he has behavioral patterns, but these are new and nuanced layers being added
Logan is hardly in crisis mode. He defeated the investor rebellion, the President and the fed investigation, successfully turned the entire family and inner circle against Kendall and is on the verge of getting rid of him for good, is about to buyout and eliminate his younger rival, and is sleeping with his much younger admin assistant. Aside from the health scares, he’s been scoring win after win this season.Aside from the inheritance, Greg is also riding high. He’s finally in good with Logan and the Roys, got his dream job, isn’t going to get in any legal trouble and scored a date with a girl way out of his league from Kendall that he betrayed. “hard to break free” for Shiv? Hardly. She’ll willingly left her political career to come be with her dad and went along with their evil as far as talking a rape victim out of testifying, publicly embarrassing Kendall, working out the deal with Sandi, etc, etc. She willingly deals with the abuse because she profits and benefits from it. My question is for how much longer? What’s gonna break the cycle for her?And the point you’re missing is that we’ve been here with Kendall before. The question is what now from him? More of the same?
Most of the Logan vixtories are short term. He defeated the investor rebellion, “for now.” And not in the way he actually wanted. They have an extra seat. The investigation is subsiding because Kendall didn’t do what he was supposed to do, but it’s not necessarily finished. That could still blow up. Same with Tom and Greg. They’re riding high, for now. Nothing about the episode made it feel like they’re in the clear. The deal with Matsson isn’t finished. Looks good so far, but I mean, who knows with that. The guy literally asked when he would die. I’m not saying Shiv is a total victim. Literally none off them are, but old patterns are hard to break. This episode made me feel like she reached a breaking point though. Especially since she defended Ken, which is something she hadn’t done at all this season. I say all that to say, it feels like a pump fake. Showing us familiar patterns specifically to go in a different direction by season’s end. I do think how this season ends will determine how interested i am in finishing the series though.
It isn’t for now. They will still maintain majority ownership and a controlling stake in the company. Josh’s threats all turned out for nothing. Stewy and Sandi appear to have backed off and more importantly away from Kendall. The fed investigation is subsiding, but that was the idea and the point which should buy them enough time to put their guy in as President to kill off the whole thing entirely. No, they aren’t in the clear, but my point is that it would nice to see them struggle and fail and possibly change instead of them constantly maintain the status quo of them always coming out on top.I had mentioned that Shiv is at a crossroad but what will she do is the million dollar question. Will she just do what she did last time and continue to take the abuse from Logan because she likes the money and comfort being in his inner circle brings? Or will she finally and actually leave them? It would be nice if they went with the latter.
They haven’t failed yet, but my point is that they haven’t won. We aren’t in Entourage/Silicon Valley territory yet. This show is a much slower burn. My reading is that this past episode is the spark that get’s the ball rolling. SOMEONE is going to win. That’s the nature of the world they live in, but that requires everyone else to take major loss. It’s still up in the air, on whom that will be.
And that’s where you’re wrong. They are and have been pulling away with wins when they honestly shouldn’t be. Because again, the point of this show is to point and laugh at these people, not watch them fail and struggle and that gets old and repetitive. We already have shows like this as far as Veep and The White Lotus for example, and after the last season where Kendall, Greg, Shiv had such great character arc and progression, we’re right back to Season 1, and that’s not good in my opinion.
I just hope these fans have never tried to read a novel. “Two hundred pages in, and he’s still just wandering around Dublin!”; “I’m nearly at the end, Holden’s done nothing and he’s still complaining about phonies!”; “when the fuck are they going to actually kill this damn whale!?”Can you imagine the outrage if they tried to watch Waiting for Godot? They’re just talking bullshit and could Godot even BE any later!?Not all stories are about shock plot twists. Some stories are about exploring characters and situations; and yes, that often means sticking with characters who repeat the same self-defeating mistakes.
I honestly thought this episode would silence the “it’s all repetitive” crowd, because it seemed like such a huge shake-up for so many characters. But I guess nothing exploded, so…
What shake-up did we see here other than the usual : Roman has become even more of a prick. Kendall realizing nobody really likes him, Shiv realizing her family doesn’t really like her, Connor realizing only Willa likes him, while Greg is still trying to be liked by everyone.No one is asking for “shock plot twists” but more of the “exploring characters and situations” that you say, which did happen in Season 2, seems to have ground to a halt this season, as everyone seems to be reverting back to Season 1. This time without any serious consequences. This sort of thing would happen even in a dime store novel, let alone the classics you seem to be invoking.
Kendall: has spent all season in an increasingly manic bubble, which has now burst in self-loathing flood of self-awareness – “I think the party’s over”. I don’t think this is the end of his story, but it’s the beginning of the next chapter.
Tom: has spent all season in an existential dread of prison, which he is now free from. Only to be forced to confront the fact that his problems haven’t actually gone away – he’s just been avoiding the normal issues (his marriage, his job) by obsessing over the abnormal one (prison). He can’t do that anymore (plus this may well be setting him up to be sent to prison… whenever someone says “let’s not get ahead of ourselves” and people react by getting ahead of themselves and telling people about it, it’s not a good sign…)Siobhan: has spent the season telling herself that someone else is about to sort out her problems. Her Dad is going to jail, or at least going to be forced to step down; her husband is going to jail (which she’s sad about but also means she doesn’t have to seriously confront their issues). She just has to hang in there, and be the obvious choice to take over the company, be a loyal wife to Tom when he’s in jail (and in doing so have him more grateful to her when he gets out), and everything’s good. But this episode both those bubbles popped. Tom’s not going anywhere, and Logan isn’t going anywhere, and she can’t just wait things out because Roman is actively being promoted ahead of her. Plus the moral problems in the company won’t go away – they’re now doing things like spying on her niece and nephew. Her comfort blanket mantras have been taken away from her, and she’s (by her standards) had a miniature breakdown by dancing in public. She doesn’t know what she’s going to do, but she now knows she can’t do nothing.Roman: has spent the season trying to weasel his way into his Dad’s good books, and has now succeeded. This has brought out the worst of him – he feels invincible (as he thinks his father is) and he acts vile and vicious (as he thinks his father does), without the usual restraintt. He thinks he now has what he thinks he wants. It isn’t really what he wants, though, and he’s going to find that out – or he will do if he has the time, because his hubris in this episode is also setting him up to have the rug pulled out from under him. [this New Roman may also bring friction between him and Gerri, which is still the one thing he’s still in the closet about (here he pretends to still be dating Tabitha]Greg: has spent the season as a helpless pinball, just doing what he’s told (unless told otherwise by someone else). He has had little self-esteem or agency, and has been in terror of being burnt/jailed; he’s just been a passive parasite, who sees himself as dependent on the Roys. In this episode, however, he has had a huge weight taken off his shoulders (OK, that was partly last week too, but this week more definitively). He dresses like himself, he admits to himself that Kendall is a dick (and takes symbolic action against him), he visibly seethes under the flame of the ‘parasite’ speech, and he actively defies Kendall, not, as previously, out of self-preservation or on the orders of another Roy, but in pursuit of his own preferences – he asks a girl out on a date and she says yes. This may be the most independent action he’s taken in the entire show (even turning up at the Roy’s house was under orders from his mother). And note the transformation in confidence and grace between the first attempt to talk to Comfrey and the second, post-epiphany attempt. This may be the start of Greg being his own man.Willa: has spent the season being increasingly fed up with her man, but this episode stands up for him.Connor: is kind of breaking up (when was the last time we saw him crack up as he did over the newspaper joke?). But is also making underestimated progress in politics.Logan: increasingly out of it and making mistakes. This episode, letting him be led around by his PA/girlfriend parroting himself back to him.
Kendall’s People: we saw two of them finally admit out loud their frustrations with him – albeit not to his face. His people don’t seem that far from turning on him.I don’t understand why people keep comparing this season to S1 – not only are virtually all of the characters in completely different place emotionally and politically from then, but the show is going into them in so much more depth. It’s become a lot more comfortable, moving away from some of the duller soap-opera distractions of S1 and concentrating on the good stuff…
And the other overlooked thing is that WEYSTAR-ROYCO, the center of this drama, is in a very different place than where it was in Season 1. I hate to do the ‘[place/thing] is the real lead character of [film/show]’, but in this case the company’s more central than any of the characters.
Then stop watching. No one will miss you and you will be free to go watch a show you like, without whining about it.
I liked this episode a lot cuz it focused on direct personal relationships more than the usual business angle. Like the episode where they went to the bachelor party in season 1
I still feel like this season is perhaps leading up to Shiv making some sort of bridge-burning open move against Logan (or at least trying to, even if it gets blown up in some way). We shall see.
It does kind of feel like this season is leading up to Shiv getting her own “Kendall season two finale fuck you dad” moment, though you wonder if they’re just going to repeat that beat.
Yeah, they’re piling indignity upon indignity on top of Shiv to see how much she’ll take. For most of the season she’s tried to brush it off and insist on a seat at the boy’s table, only to get humiliated again. But she wants/wanted the company and can’t admit defeat. But I think she’s realizing now that it won’t work. It has been an interesting arc, maybe too subtle for people who expect THINGS TO HAPPEN
this is literally how family dynamics work, we repeat patterns again and again and expect change. the absurdity is that the family dynamics of the Roys, which is the relatable meat of the show, also is family with major power over an entire country and a corporation with 1000’s of employees.
Correction, this is how family dynamics work on a formulaic sitcom. Repeat patterns over and over again in order to prolong the series. In real-life someone, with the intelligence and self-awareness of Shiv would’ve long divorced Tom, and left/stayed away from her dad/family long ago. But then we’d have no TV show would we?
nah, people repeat patterns again and again, and some people never break free of it in their lifetime. It’s literally how generational patterns work. Shiv is intelligent, but she lacks any self-awareness because her self is so tied up in her toxic need for validation from her father. This isn’t formulaic, it’s accurate to how real families work.
Nah, real life and people are more complicated than “people repeat patterns again and again, and some people never break free of it” and in the case of the fictional characters of the fictional TV show we’re discussing here, its to advance the plot and drama.
Btw, Shiv is very much self-aware, she just puts up with all of them because money, greed, power is a strong pull. And also because we wouldn’t have much of a TV show if she ditched Logan early.
I think that’s what makes people complicated, the way our behaviours are often set and determined so young and how we bring a lot of those same behaviours into our adult life and try and navigate the world. Perhaps we change or perhaps we don’t, most people don’t. Also If you think Shiv is self aware because she has some sort of principles without seeing the hypocrisy of her participating in wealth hoarding to the extreme, then hmmm.
If “hmmmm” is what you’re resorting to, then i’m going to end this thread by agreeing to disagree and that’s that. Bye and have a good one.
95% of human drama is based entirely around the inability of humans to break their own patterns. Ask Shakespeare.
You sound like a robot who has never actually had a real family…which, I guess would explain your name.
for example I’m in a weird conflict for 30 years with my siblings and now at age 45 it’s come back again. It changes, sure, but it stays the same. Family roles and dynamics are weird, wired and almost impossible to change.
Yes on all your points. After the “Oh SHIT!” Cliffhanger ending of S2, S3 has been rather boring. I completely forgot Marcia divorced Logan, and apparently, so has Logan. The characters and dialog are great, but the plot is always just running in place.
Literally just came here to say it. I mean, it’s a great show, but after the last episode I just kind of thought “okay, great, so now Kendall’s gotten pissed on some more, Shiv’s gotten pissed on more, Roman seems up so next week Roman will get pissed on, Kendall will get pissed on, and maybe Shiv will do something a bit right so she moves up a little.”
It’s kinda shitty but I even also thought well, you know, we’ve seen Kendall “broken” before. So this is the time, maybe, where he really-really-really breaks?
I’m kind of hoping to see something shift here because shit leapfrog week after week is just a bit hard to endure no matter how bitingly written.
I guess the point is that it is futile to try and stand up to their father. he’ll beat them down again and again, yet they all strangely admire him because he’s such a master manipulator.
Rava’s ideal birthday is the best birthday. End of discussion, full stop.
Willa sticking up for Connor, multiple times even, was a nice touch, even if it does show how she might be equally delusional to him when it comes to his presidential prospects. Also, her line about being consulted for the interactive theatre elements was really funny. Similarly, Naomi sticking by Kendall even after he was kind of an asshole about her gift was pretty moving. I like how it kind of seemed like she wanted to confront him about his admittedly dick-ish reaction (I don’t care how rich you are, pretending to like a gift even if it’s not your style is kind of a bare minimum for being a decent human being), but then she immediately changed to comforting Ken when it became clear he had swung downward into a full on breakdown. The treehouse exclusion was such a brilliant scene. They have really nailed the sibling dynamics this season.
Kendall going from the biggest fucking douchebag in the world to the way his face broke once he learned that his kids’ present to him might have gotten lost? Pitch perfect tragedy.
There’s no gift? Rava lied just to fuck with him?
We all know what chasing the white rabbit leads you to.
I thought she was fucking with him to get the exact result we saw. She did say it had rabbits on the wrapping paper.. Which could have been to check and see if it even registered with Kendall that their pet bunny just died due to his own negligence.
Yes! He was a total asshole to her during that brief encounter, so yes.
It really was. Also, just an incredible performance by Jeremy Strong in this episode, and in that scene in particular.
That was just depressing.
I’m trying to decide how I feel about Roman’s recent turn. You can’t rightly say it’s out of character — he was basically introduced as The Worst Roy back in the pilot, and he’s always been an asshole. But I was really impressed at how the show built from that point so that Roman was still a crude asshole, yes, but one with not just actual talent but even a bit of a moral sensibility. I was pretty struck earlier in the season when Shiv put out that statement attacking Kendall and Roman flatly refused to be a part of it. I get that the Roman we’ve seen over the last few episodes isn’t a dramatic shift from the established character, and I can see the rationale for it — this is a Roman who’s finally found a real “in” with his dad, and Logan’s poison is seeping in, and so you get the Roman who’s a crude asshole with talent but without the developing conscience. But as much sense as it makes, it does feel less interesting than the alternative — regression instead of progression, nuance and complexity kind of being shaved away in favor of a more easily loathsome character.
And Roy isn’t even emulating his father or doing what he thinks he would do. Logan would have slapped the kid if he saw how Romam treated his siblings at the party.
I think Roman is emulating his dad quite a bit this season, to both a conscious and unconscious degree. He’s taken different directions with it at times, but I think it’s increasingly clear that he gets his love of vulgarity from Logan, and we’ve seen often how Roman responds to a lot of issues this season with the same impulse that Logan has to deal with problems by just using overwhelming force. Even when Roman goes the diplomatic route, as he did with Mattson in this episode, there’s still a Logan-esque destructive element to it, as when he promised the complete end of StarGo with Mattson literally pissing on it.
Roman is also terrified of his father dying. He needs to believe Logan is absolutely invincible- even in the face of death. Anyone would’ve been repulsed by Lukas’ flippancy about their dad dying, but Roman… he had a look that said ‘as long as no one says it out loud, it’s not real.’
Oh absolutely. Roman doesn’t have much anybody else to tether himself to other than Logan – his intimacy issues with women are well documented at this point; this episode showed how deteriorated his relationships with his siblings have gotten; and his mom is so distant that she didn’t even invite him to her own wedding. Pretty much the only constant in Roman’s life is Logan, and he’s come to depend on that despite all the abuse and anxiety that comes with it.
Eh, I think he’s always sort of raised his kids to all hate and distrust each other.
But as much sense as it makes, it does feel less interesting
than the alternative — regression instead of progression, nuance and
complexity kind of being shaved away in favor of a more easily loathsome
character.I don’t think it’s regressive, I just think it isn’t the progression we’re trained to expect in characters we’re rooting for.
I mean, he also wasn’t incentivized to help Shiv get credit for torpedoing Ken.
good take, I enjoy the complexity of Shiv and Kendall, always convincing themselves their motives aren’t lead by their own ruthless ambition. Roman being honest about simply wanting to be the top dog makes sense for his character and is refreshing, but I don’t think he needed to have such a shift to the dark side so quickly to achieve that honesty.
I can ignore this because of how fluid the entire dynamics have been portrayed. The whole world is such that Roman might have never done anything he did tonight if not for Mattson ducking the initial Logan meeting. It’s all one big constantly changing chaos theory model where everyone is primed to switch allegiances at a moment’s notice.
I always felt like Roman’s crudeness and nastiness was a defense mechanism, that he’s so messed up and insecure that he uses it both to test people to see if they’ll leave him or turn on him, and also so that if/when they do, it almost isn’t even a judgment on him. From the stuff that he does, like going in for the management training program, and sticking with/by Gerri, he’s, in a way, the most realistic and practical one of the kids. He spends a lot of energy driving people away. Not to psychoanalyze fictional characters too much, but I wonder if it’s his way of rejecting people before they can reject him. Show-wise, probably cruising towards a big fall. First it was Kendall, then it was Shiv, now third time around, Season 3, we’re doing Roman. He’ll crash and burn, and I guess Season 4 we’re doing Connor, which makes sense why he’s been around a whole lot more lately.
Just once I want to see a barb pointed at Roman actually land, not just deflected with his “we’re all covered in shit, but I’m the most filthy” attitude. Kendall was spot on: he’s not a real person. He never reacts honestly; which is hilarious to me since he *seems* like the most honest out of all of them.
Do we know that he was involved with Logan’s gift to kendall? It seemed to me like he just leeched onto it without actually having any idea what it was, taking the credit for it and pissing off both siblings because that’s his favorite pasttime
I just want to tip my hat to HBO dollars spent very well. First using Hudson Yards and The Shed for part of the party set as well as other locations to pull off a singularly wretched display of excess wealth in the guise of a party. That it turned out to be one of the circles of Hell Dante could only dream about for everyone in the Roy family, scheming and manipulating into a level of such despair, pettiness and ultimately loneliness is why SUCCESSION succeeds time and again.How scenes played out on so many remarkable stages so fluidly made for one the most compelling episodes of the series. Horrifying and breathtaking, a remarkable combination not seen such as the third episode and truly great Season 2 “Hunting” (boar on the floor) and Blood Sacrifice the last episode. This show is something else.
It’s a masterclass for writers on how to pen repellent characters who can still move you with their own humanity and pain.
exactly, these people are people, terrible actions that have terrible ripple effects for everyone else and somehow you just want to protect them from their dad at the same time.
Hell, part of Kendall’s brief for the party was that it should be part Dante! (and part Weimar, part Carthage, part post-antibiotic dystopia… let’s be honest here, with all due respect to Comfrey, the party wildly failed to live up to that (delusional) marketing. It’s not even the most bacchanalian party Kendall’s been to in this show!)Speaking of which, something so elegantly pathetic about Kendall complaining that it was clearly stated in the brief that this shouldn’t be an asshole’s party. Firstly because he fails to understand that it’s always going to be an asshole’s party because it’s his party and he’s an asshole… and secondly because it continues his running theme of not understanding the difference between commanding something and it being real. He can’t just put something on the agenda and have it be true – as we also saw, with, for instance, his attitude to debate prep (where he treated ‘having noted that a question would be asked’ as equivalent to ‘having a good answer to it’)…
I loved that moment where he complained about it being an asshole party because you could just see his whole sense of self crumble, right there on your screen. It was heartbreaking, and you knew it was the beginning of his descent into his “too much birthday” meltdown.I’ve been really ready for this moment to happen. The season built up to this crescendo in ways that were truly uncomfortable to watch as he careened out of control and into mania. I love that in the featurette on this episode the creators specifically shouted out the Berenstain Bears book “Too Much Birthday,” because for some reason my niece is weirdly obsessed with that book. I have to read it to her at least once a week. So when I saw this episode was named after it, I knew exactly where we were headed and I was not disappointed. The Treehouse allusion had me cackling with laughter every time it appeared on screen.
Nice catch! I must admit, however, that I fucking hate the Berenstain Bears.
Oh, I fully believe that the Berenstain Bears should die in a fire. At this point, I have basically re-written all of them in my head to correct their horrible gender problems and old-school (read: horrible) parenting practices. When I “read” them to my niece, I fix all the problems.
GoJo is a major soap and disinfectant maker in my city so the last couple eps had me confused as shit.
Same. Maybe it’s just a NE Ohio thing? Because when they said “Buy Gojo,” I was like, “The soap people? Weird flex, but OK.”
“A truly amazing little detail that harkens back to what we know Kendall
did to a member of Shiv’s wedding’s wait staff in season one.”I actually really, really thought the folded up paper in the birthday card from Logan was the menu from Shiv’s wedding, just as a reminder to Kendall. That would have been the REAL mindfuck.
How long before we get the Kendall fan edits to “It’s My Party and I’ll Cry If I Want To”? I don’t think I have been that depressed watching a birthday party sequence since Problem Child. I’m not even being sarcastic. Jeremy Strong is consistently excellent at wringing sympathy out of Kendall even when I don’t think the writing has entirely earned it. The way this show is shot, the set design, lighting, etc. is just stupendously good…they manage to show all the trappings of the rich, yet episodes like this remind us how desolate the life is. I know there’s been some debate about whether people will watch the show and think it’s fun being like the Roys. I’m not sure if anyone could say that after this week. Trauma and misery and decades of pain spilling out in the most grotesque of ways. This episode made me want to move forward to the days when Logan is no longer on the show. I feel like everything is set up perfectly. I want to again praise Matthew Macfadyen for his work on this show. The sheer physicality in that office scene was something – seeing him jump up on those cabinets really surprised me (mainly because I thought to myself I sure would not have been able to do that). Macfadyen has this wonderful way of completely selling absurdity while still keeping humanity underneath. The shift from beating his chest like a gorilla to tenderly kissing a terrified Greg’s forehead…the moment where he blamed Greg for ruining his happiness while clearly not being able to process why…and the slow, silent death of his relationship with Shiv, like a Pinter play with much less bracing dialogue and many more cartoon sirens in the background.
When Comfry and the other assistant finally comment to each other after Kendall cancels his singing… I was waiting all episode for that to happen, and I’m glad it happened.
Greg successfully asking out Comfry, and then looking down on Shiv exercising her demons via dance is the greatest moment in television this year. The rest of this episode tied my insides in knots. It’s so sad, and also fuck all these people. 🙂
Roman continues his transformation of the Roy you hate to love to the Roy you flat out despise. I thought he couldn’t sink any lower (via his behavior with Kendall – and more on *him* in a moment) and then we saw his behavior with Shiv. Psycho Supplies
We really not talking about Greg & Tom’s scene in the compliment tunnel?! That was one of the funniest scenes of the season, if not the series.
Scenes like that remind me why I’m obsessed with this show.
I LOL’ed at “It’s your baby teeth and an iTunes gift card”.
I notice the recappers for the show (just in general) don’t say much about Tom and Greg beyond the basics, which I get, because you can already read 50000 word meta out there an the main thrust of the show isn’t about them. But the characters do have a consistently fascinating relationship and I’m glad the show chose to keep it going this season rather than cut back, as they have in some cases (like Kendall’s old friendship with Stewy). I was especially impressed to read from Nick Braun that the whole office destruction and forehead kiss scene were improvised by Matthew Macfadyen – it shows such an understanding of the characters (and the show’s trust to let that stuff go through).
I’m constantly on fucking edge whenever they’re together now. Tom has a track-record of assaulting Greg, and I thought he was going to assault those poor party workers
Rava is… THE WORST.
I don’t think she’s the worst of the lot but she was definitely lying about Kendall’s birthday present. “It’s the one with bunny wrapping paper”. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight
I didn’t even think of that. Yeah why would she bring their gift to the party. Wouldn’t they have a little party for him and the kids?Oh, that’s right these aren’t normal people.
Kendall literally hasn’t seen them outside a zoom screen all season, why would you think he’d have a party with them.
Read the whole comment.“Oh that’s right these aren’t normal people”, as in, of course they wouldn’t.
I was thinking it was a fuck you regarding the bunny/bagel situation from last weeks episode, hence the mention of bunny wrapping paper. But I could be reading way too much into it. You’re right, they’re all terrible.
I thought that too. Saying it had rabbits was trying to see if Kendall even remembered his neglect killed the kids’ rabbit.
I had the same reaction. I turned to my husband and said that if Kendall wasn’t such a narcissistic, selfish git, he’d be celebrating his birthday the way that most normal, loving parents with children do – sitting with his kids at the dinner table, enjoying a nice birthday cake.
She’s just always SO mean to him. Makes me wonder just how shitty of a husband he was.
Ironic, bc Kendall told her that Logan’s buyout offer was a mindfuck present. Turns out Rava came through in that department.
Rava’s clearly been through a lot of shit with Kendall, and been a caretaker for the kids, one of whom seems to have some kind of issue (autism?) She still shows up to support Kendall at events. But she loves reminding him how horrible he is. I do think a lot of that is that passive-aggressiveness is her only way to channel her anger about their marriage. So I don’t think she’s the worst, but she’s not pleasant either (and I don’t think she’s lying about the birthday present.)
You watched that entire episode, and your takeaway from Kendall’s birthday party was that Rava was the worst?
You read my entire comment and concluded that was my ONLY takeaway? Not sure how you do things, but each of my kinja comments aren’t comprehensive, all-encompassing treatises. This was just a random thought. And the party was the least of it. She’s got a LONG track record of being cruel to Kendall.
What?? She has had to put up with a horrible husband and father in Kendall. She’s always civil with him, even allowing him to take over her apartment at the start of this season. She shows up for him when he needs it and is sane and probab ly the best thing he ever had. I see absolutely nothing wrong with Rava. Nothing.
I’ll echo some of the other comments that I feel like the character arcs (with the possible exception of Roman becoming more and more vicious as the show goes on) are becoming a bit repetitive and need to start heading toward an endgame if the show is really only going to run for 4 (maybe 5) seasons as the showrunners have said. But goddamn does this show still have some of the best character work on television, in both the writing and the performances. Lots of TV shows over the past 20 years have featured bad people as their protagonists, but almost all of them have made you root for those villain protagonists, in part by letting the viewer revel in the characters’ bad behavior and vicariously enjoy the feeling of giving in to your worst impulses. The better-written shows have recognized this and turned it around on the viewer as an indictment of their appetites. But Succession makes you absolutely loathe these characters for their selfish, cruel, shallow behavior – and at no point do their lives look fun, satisfying, or glamorous – and then makes you pity them and want to just give them a hug. It’s a tricky line to walk that I think a lot of shows have tried but very, very few have successfully pulled off.
I’m still trying to figure out the writing/character development of Beth on Yellowstone. Beth acts like a complete horse’s ass to everyone around her but Rip, to the point that I’m surprised she can hold a job between the drinking and the bragging about boning billionaires to get them to buy her drinks. Seriously? You can’t afford your own Tito’s and 3 olives? We know you’re not spending it on shampoo. Or bras.
The mobile view of lists and articles on the av club is basically non-functional for me. In the course of trying to read this recap, the site refreshed itself 4 times, and the view constantly jumps up and down because the off-screen ads are doing something weird (resizing, perhaps?). This was on Safari on IOS.In short, your mobile site doesn’t work, probably due to how the ads you host are interacting with your site.Also yeah this was a good episode.
YES! It is impossible to read an article all the way to the end on mobile.
Even though the rehearsal of “Honesty” guaranteed it wouldn’t actually happen, I’ve never been so relieved not to have to suffer through what would have been the cringe to end all cringe. Same, PR lady whose name I can’t remember, same.
The one major misstep I feel like the show has made in terms of depicting how the super-wealthy live in NY (based on outside observation, unfortunately) is the fact that Kendall lives at Hudson Yards.There’s just no way that “Notorious KEN” would be living in such a deeply uncool neighborhood.
Does he live there? I thought he just rented it out and stayed there for the party.
I’m pretty sure he’s been in an apartment at Hudson Yards all season (at least once he left Rava’s).
I’m only here for the enlightened “Shiv vs. Siobh” debate.
“You won’t have to talk to my father; you’ll only talk to me.”Two seconds later…“So, you’ll meet with my father?”This isn’t going to end well for Roman
Let’s hope you’re right. Something has to give.
I had a similar thought. Cutting a deal on the premise that Mattson would never have to deal directly with Logan is likely to go over like a lead balloon when Logan learns about it. Roman’s been flying high lately, but I think he’s getting too close to the sun.
I’ve been a big fan of both the creator and the first 2 seasons, but it’s starting to bother me that the show keeps pulling its punches. Ken did not do the show, the company takeover did not succeed, the DoJ investigation fizzled out, there is no jail time.I’m really ready for the show to take it to the next level and stop getting back to the equilibrium: would love to see a “French Revolution” break out and see how the siblings respond to a genuine popular uprising for example, or having the company taken away from them.
Kendall is going to end up killing himself. Over the course of 3 seasons we have seen him, high aloft different buildings, looking lost, broken, etc, etc. The foreshadowing is so strong it hurts.I hate it, but that is my take on where he is headed.
Kendall deserves whatever he gets. Noone likes a middle aged white guy who likes hip hop.
OK, great…Jeremy Strong has got his Emmy-reel episode, and Kendall is at his saddest and most pathetic. Now can we please build him back up again? I understand having him spiral down, but his character is so much better for the show as a competent opponent to his dad.
Agreed. The only problem is that whenever Kendall’s character is “built back up” again, his narcissistic tendencies also kick in — his lack of self awareness and insight into his own behavior when are in his favor always seem be what lead to his downfall. During his bombshell press conference at the end of season 2, Kendall appeared to be incredibly competent. It was disappointing to see how short-lived that was. The very next episode of S3, he almost immediately started to fall back into his cringe worthy behavior.It’s a viscious cycle and he can’t find a balance of being competent while also keeping a check on his ego. It’s either all on or all off.If I didn’t know better, I’d think Kendall might fit the profile of someone who’s bipolar.
I don’t think he’s ever been built back up…more of a slow spiral down from the beginning of the show when he realized that Logan wasn’t stepping aside. So hopefully, hitting rock bottom has forced him to gain a little self awareness at least. Certainly looked that way at the end of the party.
As much as I enjoy watching this show, it’s really frustrating at times. What’s the point of these characters if nothing ever changes? Three seasons in and:- Roman is still a little turd with repressed sexual/daddy/mommy issues (who’s growing more and more vicious),- Shiv is still a doormat who repeatedly lets her father manipulate and use her (How does she not see this?), – Kendall is still a bipolar man-child (He has more self-awareness than his siblings do, but that insight only seems to kick in when the chips are down), – Connor is still clueless and “interested in politics”, – Tom, still stuck in a loveless marriage, continues to bully Greg, – Greg, still bumbling, is everyone’s favorite punching bag, and last but not least, – Logan remains untouchable and invincible as he continues to use and abuse his kids (Aside from Kendall turning on him, he never seems to face any backlash for how awful he is to those closest to him)Something has to give at some point, don’t you think?
This is my biggest problem with the show. Writing for individual scenes are pretty good – the series has some great scenes (helped in no small part by great acting) – but the plotting and character arcs are kind of… shit? Despite all the promises of dramatic turns and surprising plot twists, it’s got a pretty firm status quo, which makes the stakes feel low af.
When every character is despicably shitty, you root for the less shittiest one of the week… Greg got a date!
Hey, Greg isn’t shitty. I’m Team Cousin Greg all the way, baby! Having said that, it’s not like he’s gotten much of a character arc or development since season 1.
You’re right. In a way Greg is us, watching the Logans sexlessly fuck each other
Well, he is suing Greenpeace? He’s not a wonderful guy.
The thing about Greg is that’s unique among that characters is that he isn’t malicious and does genuinely seem to want the best for other people. But on the other hand he’s super-impressionable and spineless and seems to just float through life. So I am rooting for him and Comfrey (and even if they don’t work out romantically to at least become friends) because I think having a centering presence that’s familiar with the Roy’s world but isn’t a part of it could be good for him. Like, I think he if she told him, “no Greg, you can’t sue Greenpeace, that’s the stupidest idea I’ve ever heard” he’d listen to her.That last scene between the two of the them was just genuinely *nice* in a way I can’t remember this show ever being before. But I probably shouldn’t be watching with anything resembling hope.
I think he is. He’s super manipulative but he’s not totally corroded like the rest. I thought the way he asked Comfrey out was manipulative as fuck.
Greg, though he may like Tom have a smidge of a conscience, is a Machiavellian creep; when Kendall calls him out in this episode for being a parasite he’s 100% dead on. If you really think he isn’t malicious and wants whats best for people you’ve fallen for his schtick.
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Any time a major development that threatens the status quo rears its head…it is quickly squashed and washed away in a quick board room scene. Recent example: the entire federal investigation threat was instantly waved away by Jerri after a taking a quick phone call.
I disagree that the characters haven’t changed. They’re all fundamentally who they were at the beginning of the show, but they have been slowly revealed—their shortcomings, their motivations, their desires. Each character cycles, which can make it seem like they’re not making any progress, but I think I’ve seen incremental change as each character makes a move, loses, and tries to recover.I think the cycle is the point, although I can see how that might not be a completely satisfying structure for a lot of people. Here’s how I see it:The show is basically Waiting for Godot, but Godot is here and immovable (Logan) rather than unseen and perhaps unreal. Instead of spending each episode wondering if Godot will arrive, we instead spend it wondering if he will leave. The effect is a sort of suspended animation for the characters in his orbit. They are simultaneously bound by him and waiting for him. In the absence of direction from Logan, they try to maintain their orbit and jockey for position in any petty way they can. It leads to a lot of stasis and incremental change, and I think this is the point of things until the showrunners decide to take a decisive move like kill off or oust Logan. Then we’ll get to see some action as the knives come out. But until then, everyone sits as quietly as they can, waiting for Godot to come tell them what to do or who has won or what will make their lives meaningful.
I’d add to your comparison that Godot (the play) was a reaction to a sense of broad post-WWII anxiety, the fear that we’ve seen how fundamentally cruel people are, and the difficulty in believing in anything after that. So we pad out our days waiting fruitlessly for…something. I think Succession is similarly playing off of modern economic anxieties, the despair we feel that things are getting worse while the 1% are getting wealthier–every time we see a glimmer of something that might change that, we see how it’s folded back into this huge industrial engine. We hoped the FBI would TAKE LOGAN DOWN, but in the end, money wins–as happens in real life. This may be frustrating if you’re hoping for a superhero to change things, but Succession ain’t that.Also I think fundamentally the story is going to be less about how characters change, and more about how Weystar-Royco slips away from them since they’re unwilling/unable to.
* The implication seemed to be that Stewy was not actually at the party — Kendall just said he was there to make it look like he had at least one actual friend at the party. Unless I misread all of the body language? * Ep should have been called “I’m joking. Or am I?”This is Roman’s season. Last episode clarified how all of his centerlessness and prioritization of power over fixed principles represents the next evolution from Logan’s more traditional conservative mindset. First he gets empty hate vessel Jeryd a clear path to the presidency and then, in the very next episode, shows that — incessant joking and giggles aside — he means business. As Kendall says: “I’m joking. Or am I?”Roman is the ultimate illustration of the alt-right’s slipperiness and refusal to take actual stands that can be examined. Instead, Roman just grabs for the nearest weapon and plugs away, then pivots as needed to declare the whole thing a goof. Oh, yeah, and those jokes can absolutely lead to real-world acts of violence. Where have we seen that before? (Logan, though, will not like Roman cutting him out of the communication chain. The old guard might do some swatting.)* Loved Connor and Willa — they’ve found a way to make their marriage work. They’ve even begun to support one another, albeit in gross ways. Willa’s def giving me some Nancy Reagan vibes. * Nice hint at humanity, Comfry! Sorry about the lunch boxes. * Greg can be my wing man any day.
Yeah, I appreciated Willa evolving into just the right kind of awful for this world. She was too good for them before.
I was so worried that Greg would tell Kendall that he’s off the hook for jail time because it may inspire Kendall to get serious and go back to DOJ with some nastier details. I don’t recall for sure, but isn’t it the documents that Greg secreted away from the flames that Kendall is running with?Also, I think Tom and Greg shouldn’t celebrate at all until the deal with DOJ is done and signed.
Yes. I think removing the DOJ charges and threat of prison will do more harm than good to this show. Otherwise, it’d be episodes and episodes of “who’s the worst asshole?”
While there were plenty of laughs to be had throughout, the funniest thing I found about this episode was how shit the Stargo App was and how art was imitating life.
In Australia, if you want to stream Succession legally you have to subscribe to ‘Binge’ – which is owned and operated by Rupert Murdoch’s Foxtel and by all accounts is absolutely f***ing terrible* *I don’t have it personally but I do subscribe to its sister sports-streaming app Kayo and can confirm that it has the worst UI I have ever experienced despite it costing almost 2.5 x the likes of Disney+
It’s funny to me that one of the cruelest moments of the episode, to me, was how shitty Kendall was that Naomi’s gift wasn’t good enough when she was clearly self-conscious about it. Then I come here and the reviewer mentions three times how upset she is that NAOMI could be so thoughtless. It came up more times than any other shitty behavior in the episode! Different lenses, I guess.
Kinda shows us what kinda person Naomi really is? She does offer him a blowjob…
I thought the same thing — she looked mortified, repeatedly said she’s bad at giving gifts. I felt for her, but apparently Ken was right to be incredibly rude about an expensive gift someone picked out for him.
Different lenses, indeed. Fucking baffling. I’m pretty sure if we asked the writers what they hoped the audience would take away from the scene, it would NOT be “Naomi gives shitty gifts.”
I took that moment to be the last straw for kendall. After a night of being rejected by everyone he”loves”, the one person who he hasn’t pushed away gives him an impersonal gift, making him feel more alone. There have been weirdly a lot of watch-buying plotlines this season and about how easy expensive watches are to obtain, I think this plot point is meant to convey many things at once, including that Kendall is a spoiled brat.
I think there are a couple of different takeaways from that scene, all of which are, as you say, more complex than simply saying “Naomi gives bad gifts.”1. The episode revolves around a series of revelations for Kendall, in which the veil drops from his eyes and he finally starts to see his relationships for how they are, not how they seem through the fog of his mania. When it comes to his relationships, over the course of the party he comes to realize the ways that his relationships with his father, his siblings, his ex, and likely his kids are all irreparably broken. He comes to realize specifically how corrosive Roman is, as emphasized by the “You’re not a real person” comment. He realizes he has no real friends and has populated his party with underlings, yes men, and quasi-celebrities just there for the Instagram stories.2. Likewise, Kendall comes to see how pathetic and alone he is as a person. He can only recognize Roman’s brokenness because he’s finally seen his own. He knows he is an asshole at an asshole’s party that he threw for himself. In that moment in the gift room, he can’t find the thing that he knows should matter most to him, his kids’ gift, and he knows he’s alone. 3. Naomi’s role in this episode and this scene is really interesting, because you get the sense that she knows the party is ill-fated but she doesn’t intervene, even though she’s clearly concerned. She senses Kendall is spiraling well before the gift room meltdown, but she doesn’t really try to help him so much as she continually redirects him. Naomi as a character has vacillated between being seeming to be good for Kendall and seeming to enable some of his worst impulses. I get the sense that she cares for him in the ways that she can, but that she’s damaged in ways that prevent her from making those deeper connections. So when Naomi gives him the watch, I think it can be both unintentional on her part and also somewhat her fault. She doesn’t mean to give a bad gift, she’s just not capable of connecting with Kendall in a real way. I also remember that she’s a damaged black sheep from an uber-rich family, too. She’s as lost as he is, as inured from consequences, and when you don’t know who you are, it’s hard to know how to relate to others in the ways they need. Because of all this, I think it’s unlikely that any gift would have led to a different outcome. I think both characters realize in that moment how much they don’t work together. A totally over-the-top gift would have seemed empty and in line with the impersonal, over-the-top party full of people who didn’t care about him. I don’t think it’s possible to give Kendall a meaningful, heartfelt gift because neither character has the sense of self to discern what that might be (there’s a reason Kendall only seems to fixate on finding the gift from his kids—no amount of “stuff” is going to fill the void for him). And yet in the end, the leave the party together and end up sitting in silence on the couch because, as much as they know they don’t work, being together and dysfunctional is still better than being alone and grappling with what that means.
I fully agree, “What the fuck, Kendall?” was pretty much the unanimous reaction in my household at that scene, not “Awful gift Naomi, you idiot”. I did think it funny that it was a watch though, since we’ve already had an extended awkward scene with Kendall and a “gift” watch, and Naomi saw it play out, so maybe she was playing with fire there.Previously I hadn’t much liked Naomi, she was a bit like a female equivalent to the loathsome Nate, but she was not the bad guy here.
I think the key takeaway from the scene is when Kendall proclaims, “ I already have a watch.”In his mind, his only ally doesn’t even care—or hasn’t noticed—that he already has a watch. She would have been better off giving him nothing.
If ever we needed to see a car crash in slow motion…Naomi offering a blowjob says it all about her. I began to wonder if there was no gift from the kids. Goofy Greg scores, yeah! And… Kendall has no friends, poor dude. Truly a party for an asshole. Was hoping for celebrity cameos.
I think it’s fair to say Season 3 has been flawed so far. Still great dialogue and performances, and just an amazing control of tone where you’ll be howling with laughter one second and then devastated the next.But I also agree that this has felt like the characters have been spinning wheels, and I feel like the end of Season 2 promised a lot of interesting character directions that didn’t really pay off. Kendall became more and more of an asshole until he regressed into a depressive spiral again. Roman seemed to be becoming a smarter, more conscientious person (with Gerri at his side) but is now getting increasingly awful and cruel in a way he hasn’t been since Season 1. Shiv finally seems to be changing as it looks like she may be turning against her Dad, but it’s coming at the end of the season where she hasn’t done a huge amount. And Logan continues to be Logan to the point where he hasn’t seemed any different since the betrayal. Maybe slightly angrier. Only Tom has had a truly fresh character arc. And yet, I’m still really interested in seeing what happens, and I like that I really don’t know how this season will end. I can basically seeing anyone turning on anyone, or anyone doing some big drastic gesture to take down another.
One of the best episodes of the series. Dasha Nekrasova has been kind of one note but this episode I thought she did a great job of clearly being on drugs as the party progresses but never stating or showing it. When she’s interacting with Kendall I thought that was great. Ppl are hoping for a decline for this show and overanalyzing it like MCU dorks and a trailer. This is a great season so far. Be Mature.
The plotting this season has been inept and incoherent:The bear hug is coming and the company is in serious danger!: It’s fine, it was nothing.
The FBI is coming and the company is in serious danger!: It’s fine, it was nothing.
Ken’s party is going to be coke-fueled mayhem: It’s fine, it was nothing.
Logan is old, sick, and going crazy: He’s fine, it was nothing.
Marcia’s back and oh boy sh-: She’s fine, it was nothing.
This was somewhat true last season too: whatever happened to the book about Logan, Tom’s clash with the head of ATN, the fascist who works there, etc. But the random plot changes this season are much worse.
One minute Shiv and Tom are breaking up, then they’re back together, then they hate each other again. New characters are introduced, then immediately dropped. The characters change motivation for no reason, or stay the same (Shiv trusting her father) for no reason. There are no stakes to any plot developments, because we know they’re going to be anti-climactically swept under the rug the next episode. The whole thing is a contrived mess.Very sad, because the show had so much promise. But this season has been a disaster. But that’s just my opinion.
I sort of like this show, but I can’t help but feel like it is basically It’s Always Sunny except the real joke is on the common mass of humanity. Which is probably accurate regarding how rich people really are, but not entirely enjoyable. Especially over time.
The thing about Kendall is that, if he was the genius he thinks he is, he could take that $2 billion buy-out and turn into something special. But deep down, he knows he cannot.
So, foreshadowing with the “THE NOTORIOUS KEN: READY TO DIE,” signage? Maybe they’ll go for it as Kendall is pushed farther out and the series begins drawing to a close. It would be bold. Somebody’s gotta take over at the end of this thing. I’d have pulled for Greg running a game on all of them somehow (with his mother’s help) from his first episode appearance, but they never developed any angle on that which would could possibly make sense now.
Just realizing on rewatch that Tabitha has indeed been missing all season. I never got the impression that she and Roman had split up at the end of last season, and it does seem like, at the very least, people think they’re still a couple. It’s not above Succession to ghost somebody and only imply their fate–does Eva still work at ATN?–so it’s possible they’re finished. But I’d love to see how she would react to Roman’s arc over the last few episodes.
I’m late to this show, having binged the first two seasons in about two weeks (with some mental health breaks along the way – it got too heavy at times) and all I have to say is I love it because I dislike most of the characters, yet I can’t stop watching.Also, Cousin Greg can GET. IT. Tall, handsome, and awkward? My basement has flooded and I can only get so erect.
Anyone notice the reference to a Wedding Present song? Made me happy, at least.
Roman isn’t Shiv’s younger brother. She’s the youngest child.