Succession hits a new high as the Roys pick the next president and Kendall does some recruiting
"What It Takes" is a tornado of an hour full of the cruel, pathetic, melodramatic stuff that makes Succession great.
TV Reviews Succession
The Roys have always been easy to read. Like all people with power, money, access, and privilege, they want to hang onto that power, money, access, and privilege. Whether they have any guiding moral truisms, tenets, or beliefs past “maintain the status quo, and our role within it” is hard to say—and often irrelevant. The politics they push on Waystar Royco maintain their popularity and please their shareholders. The cynicism and nihilism with which they approach every situation maintains their aloofness and perceived superiority.
The only true believer in Republican ideology for what it actually stands for might be Connor, and note how his political aspirations are met with mocking and sarcasm by his siblings and even his father. Why would you want to be a politician, someone who works for people? The real move is to be the person pulling the politician’s strings, and that’s always who the Roys have been—made explicitly clear by “What It Takes,” the sixth episode of this third season of Succession and one of the series’ absolute best.
What an absolute tornado of an hour, full of the pointedly cruel, quiveringly pathetic, and amusingly melodramatic stuff that makes Succession great. For all the time we spend in Virginia at the secret weekend where powerful Republican influencers and donors get together to decide who they’re going to throw their weight behind in the next presidential race, what gives “What It Takes” its whiplash-inducing narrative speed is all the stuff that happens offscreen.
Kendall just fires Lisa after she rightfully calls him out for overplaying his hand to the government! Logan is definitely sleeping with Kerry, only weeks after having sworn to Marcia that he’d stop being so inattentive and indiscreet! (I know that Marcia secured her bag, and good for her, but why are you going to embarrass her like this again, Logan?!) Greg gets a new lawyer who is already advising him about suing Greenpeace! Shiv accepts that Tom is going to prison, and it has made her husband such a nonplayer in her mind that she doesn’t even seem to notice when he disappears to have a gigantic breakfast spread at a nearby diner with her backstabbing brother!
All of this is in line with who these people are—selfish, self-obsessed, self-absorbed. And what “What It Takes” does so well is remind us of how this ensconced toxicity spreads outward, how it enacts and enables, in all ways big and small. The greatest danger in Succession is to believe in anything; this show treats that extension of self as a kind of weakness. Kendall believes in his own martyrdom and trips over his own dick. Shiv believes in the American republic and gets laughed at. Connor believes in himself and gets shuffled offstage. The only truly powerful people right now are Logan and Roman, the latter reshaping himself fully in the former’s image, because they care about nothing past themselves.
“I always found it hard to care about politics,” Roman says, because his life is utterly unaffected by it; “I don’t care about the resume or ideological purity, as long as they get it and they pop,” Logan says. When you’re that rich, what does it matter who the president is? Remember “No amount of antibacterial gel is gonna be able to wipe the America off me”? This is all a game, and the only thing Roman, acting as Logan’s shadow, wants to do is win. And, frankly, he is. Roman is firmly now Daddy’s No. 1 Boy, giggling over memes with Logan and giggling in bathrooms with the most appalling Republican candidate, the one who spells his first name Jeryd because of course he does.
The only person who seems really even close to the Logan/Roman untouchability is Tom, and for an oppositional reason. They have everything to lose and he has nothing, and if we all remember our Fight Club training, “It’s only after we’ve lost everything that we’re free to do anything.” Tom truly believes he’s going to prison, and he truly believes that Shiv is preparing to leave him (because how dare she use birth control!), and he truly believes that Greg is on an upward swing that leaves his onetime mentee/abusee behind, and yet—and yet—he still doesn’t throw his lot in with Kendall. Matthew Macfadyen is a phenomenal actor who has consistently done amazing work on this series (just recently, with the pitch-perfect line delivery of “I’d castrate and marry you in a heartbeat”!), but his work against Jeremy Strong is next-level stuff.
Macfadyen is a deeply empathetic mix of resigned and curious, resentful and dismissive, polite and aggressive, and his conversation with Strong is like a tennis match, with Kendall trying to whip aces past Tom and Tom lobbing back every single one. Tom might often seem like a bumbling fly on the wall, all bluster and acquiescence, but I truly do not think he is an idiot. He understands power, and he understands that Kendall doesn’t have any. Macfadyen’s pitying tone when he tells Kendall, “Do you know what they’re doing up in his suite? They’re picking the next president,” is melancholy, morose, and exceptional. Maybe Tom abandons the family, but he’s not going to do it by joining Kendall. Kendall is a broken man, and Tom isn’t broken yet. He’s hopeless, but he’s not helpless.
“What It Takes” begins after the triumph of the Roys maintaining control of their company, coming to terms with Stewy, Sandy, and Sandi, and avoiding a vote at the recent shareholder meeting. Interestingly, although Gerri, Karl, and Frank were all pivotal at the shareholder meeting, none of them is in attendance in this episode, which begins with the Roy family en route to Virginia and the Future Freedom Summit. The reshuffled family dynamics remain here: Roman is closer to Logan, Shiv is on the outside, Logan is being kinder to Tom, and Connor is still low-key threatening everyone.
The Roys are waltzing into Virginia with the sense that they’re king breakers (President Raisin is definitively on the way out) and with the mission of being king makers. Alongside the White House’s Michelle Anne and Republican operative and donor Ron Pectis (the ever-delightful Stephen Root), the Roys arrive to figure out who ATN is going to support in the six months to the presidential election. (Interesting that this timeline situates us in May, because both Kerry and Shiv are dressing more like it’s autumn.) The Roys are still going after President Raisin so that he potentially eases up on the investigation into Waystar Royco, but, unsurprisingly, there’s infighting between the family about which Republican wannabe should get their shine.
The three frontrunners are the ineffectual (and boring) Vice President Dave Boyer (Reed Birney), policy-focused (and seemingly middle-of-the-road, and therefore hype-lacking) Senator Rick Salgado (Yul Vasquez), and Proud Boy-adjacent fringe asshole Jeryd Mencken (Justin Kirk), who whips the base into a frenzy with his endlessly aggressive, totally empty stances. Connor sees an opportunity to put himself forward, but let’s be real, that’s not going to happen. (“In a room full of Timothy McVeighs, does Connor suddenly look like a Roosevelt?” Unfortunately, no, and I guess this means Connor didn’t actually get that European job?)
Boyer, who licks his lips a little too often, is out as soon as Logan mocks him to assistant-turned-lover Kerry. Salgado tells Shiv that if she helps him become president, he’ll send Logan to jail so she can be in charge—and Shiv is down with it, but no one else is interested by Salgado as a candidate. Instead, it becomes clear that Mencken, with what Shiv calls his “It’s all red pill, baby” ideology, is going to be the guy. Was there really any other way this could go? There was not.
It doesn’t matter that Mencken mocks Logan and disrespects ATN; he certainly changes his tune once he realizes ATN is on the hunt for a candidate. What does matter is how quickly Mencken and Roman vibe, and I’ll be honest: It was too sexual! I was almost uncomfortable! Has Roman ever been as flirtatious, coy, and coquettish as when he was talking to Mencken? Kieran Culkin’s full-court-press charm offensive as Roman was less direct than he is with Gerri, but it was more alluring: all winks and puckered lips and genuine smirks. I truly thought that Roman and Jeryd were going to kiss, and I’m sure someone is already writing that fan fiction. They’re just “a couple of cool guys having some disgusting fun,” and it didn’t take long for Logan to be convinced, did it?
“Climate said I was going down. Climate said I should just step aside. I guess I’m a climate denier,” Logan says before going off to bed with Kerry, and the next morning, when Shiv claims she won’t be in the family picture with Mencken, he wears her down with just one line. “Are you part of this family or not?” he asks, and honestly, Shiv, what are you doing? You think standing three people away from Mencken is a victory? “You win, Pinky. You win,” Logan says, and that’s such a snapshot into how this father shares power with his children: barely.
That seems like a natural transition to discussing Kendall, doesn’t it? My man is losing it! He pisses off Lisa first by not taking their practice questioning seriously (“I approved the illegal payments because I love sexual assault and I love to cover it up. Is that bad? … I’m not saying that, I’m saying what you think I think, right?”) and insulting her, then gets offended by Lisa’s warning that the papers he’s provided “lack some of the explosiveness it was suggested they might have.” Does the fact that Mommy Caroline is getting married without telling him rattle Kendall enough (“Ken bores the shit out of Mom”) that he fails the sit-down with the U.S. government? Or did he blow it on purpose? I think there’s a little of both affecting Kendall’s actions, and when Lisa calls him out on acting “high-handed and defensive … wildly overfamiliar and glib,” he can’t handle it. Bye to Lisa, and hello, potentially, to Tom.
But Kendall, for all his attempts at being a righteous leader, is not a coalition builder. He basically offers Tom nothing in exchange for his cooperation, and while Kendall thinks he’s being a martyr, Tom actually is. He offered himself up to Logan. He agrees to take on some of Greg’s crimes: “Load me up, you piece of shit.” He is curious about how a toilet can be a bastard! (So am I!) And consider how Kendall and Tom both act during and after their sit-down: Kendall insults Tom and his marriage to Shiv, he calls him a “country mouse,” and then takes a picture of him as blackmail. Kendall’s desperation is getting real bad, and I’m going to go ahead and call Tom right-on with this analysis: “My hunch is that you are going to get fucked. Because I’ve seen you get fucked a lot. And I’ve never seen Logan get fucked once.”
Couple that line with what Shiv said earlier: “Nothing’s more dangerous than a second-rate individual who sees his chance.” The problem, of course, is that Shiv’s statement could apply to any of the kids. What will Kendall do? What will Roman do? What will Connor do? What will Shiv herself do? And what will Tom—always silently sitting, watching, and waiting—what will Tom do? Can’t let all that cake batter go to waste.
Stray observations
- A drinking game that would kill you: How often Shiv and Kendall say “Uh-huh” in an emulation of Daddy Logan.
- This season certainly has loved its guest stars, hasn’t it? We got Adrien Brody for an episode, Stephen Root and Yul Vasquez (hot with his all-white hair) for an episode, and Alexander Skarsgård for an episode next week. (I am assuming Justin Kirk sticks around for longer.) All these familiar faces are fun, but it would’ve been nice to have more of Hiam Abbass and Arian Moayed, who are no longer series regulars. And Sanaa Lathan is now just gone? Goddammit, Kendall!
- No pre-credits opening scene this episode, and that lack of interruption definitely added to the episode’s propulsive feel.
- “We’re allowing the tune to be played at my dad’s tempo, Lisa, and I’m not sure why!” Imagine Jeremy Strong in Whiplash. The anxiety is too much!
- Shiv’s recurring comeback to Roman is that he wants to have sex with either dad Logan or mom Caroline, and I am begging her to put together some new material. Shiv might be the most uncreative of the Roy children in the competitive-cruelty space.
- This episode wasn’t heavy on the Greg/Tom moments, but it’s difficult to decide which was more perfect: “I like Hamilton” and “Sure you do. We all do,” or “I saw you … flying on the wings of white power. Did it feel good as the fascists hoisted you aloft, like the Stanley Cup?” Both are excellent, per usual.
- Kerry giving Shiv the stink eye across the room while she was chatting with Salgado—the last thing Logan needs is another spy, but it surely seems like she is one. And once again, Shiv seems unable to understand what her father wants or needs: She whines to him about credit for the deal at the shareholder meeting, she tries to convince him to switch parties and support the Democrats, she’s convinced that the news of ex-wife Caroline’s upcoming wedding is going to bother him when it really just makes him laugh, and she disbelieves that he’s sleeping with Kerry until it’s right in front of her face. Shiv might have been Logan’s favorite child once, but their proximity to each other since season two has been nothing but detrimental. “My opinion counts for more”—nope.
- “Maybe I don’t want to donate my body to political science.” I get it, Willa.
- Roman’s ideas for ATN would probably be very popular, which is deeply depressing: “E-girls with fucking guns and Juul pods … Deep State conspiracy hour, but with like, a fucking wink, you know? Funny.”
- Next week: Kendall’s 40th birthday party, with a potential Weimar meets Carthage meets Dante meets AI theme! I don’t actually expect cameos from Zadie Smith and Chuck D, but the “Lukas Matsson” who Kendall hopes will attend is the name of Skarsgård’s character. Get ready!
207 Comments
Jimmy James shows up in yet another show, lol.
That scene of Tom walking down the hallway was peak soundtrack, not to mention the most emotionally resonant moment this season.
The soundtrack is so wonderful. It’s great to hear unabashed new classical music on a soundtrack again. In particular, the last couple of weeks I’ve been loving the way he’s bringing in more trumpets – there was a whole little brass section chorale last week! – to convey both the pomp/majesty and coldness/hollowness of their situation. Neobaroque! For some reason I’m particularly thinking Purcell…
It certainly heightens the Shakespearean atmosphere! They’re all doomed, and they just don’t know it. Or they do and that’s why everyone looks so hollow.
There was a specific piece the strings reminded me of and I can’t come up with the title, which is driving me nuts. I’m pretty sure I originally heard it as part of a pair skating routine in like the early to mid aughts, but that’s not really helping me identify it.
I agree in repeatedly feeling like I almost recognise it; but I think it’s just generic enough that it rings the ‘this is familiar’ bell without it necessarily being a direct lift of anything – string arpeggios are very popular! In general the way they’re done here reminds me of the Baroque – particularly Handel – but they’re also a trope of 20th century minimalism (Philip Glass etc). The only concrete thing I can offer is that the combination of the baroque touches with the modern lushness kind of reminds me of Karl Jenkins, and you’ve probably heard his ‘Palladio’ a bunch of times; it’s almost certainly been used in prominent skating routines!(more generally, the way he’s using this baroque string stuff reminds me of how some films use Handel: the various majestic pieces symbolism the pomp (but also hollowness) of royalty in The Madness of King George, and the beautiful but brittle use of the saraband in Barry Lyndon, which in a similar way depicts a character who is both striving for wealth and power – and – succeeding – and yet at the same time trapped in an increasingly prestigious cage)
Pretty sure I was thinking of Albinoni’s Adagio, actually. Which makes a lot of sense, because I kept thinking that it was a piece I got confused with another that included an organ.Spoiler: same piece, different arrangements. It’s also funny because I found the correct pairs figure skating video almost right away (2010 bronze medal) and didn’t watch it because I remembered the performers’ costumes as being maroon, not bright red.
It’s a beautiful piece – although I’ve always seen it as a relatively calm piece of music, and the Succession music as much more anxious!
It does, though, share a certain ‘Baroque methods for modern ears’ sensibility, because it’s not actually by Albinoni – it’s actually a 20th century piece by Remo Giazotto. He claimed that his piece was based on two ideas he found in a fragment by Albinoni, which is why it’s popularly known as ‘Albinoni’s Adagio’, but even that is highly suspect (nobody else has ever seen the alleged fragment).
[this may sound odd, but was kind of a thing in the early-to-mid 20th century. Culture at the time demanded either uncompromising modernist works, or at the very least some sort of lush neoromanticism; but at the time there was a big rediscovery of the baroque, and composers wanted to experiment with it, but didn’t dare do so under their own names. So they claimed to be adapting or orchestrating old baroque pieces, or even just claimed to have discovered them. The other famous example is Kreissler’s ‘Praeludium and Allegro’, which he initially claimed was a rediscovered piece by Pugnani (it’s now known as ‘in the style of’ Pugnani). This was all possible because a vast amount of baroque music WAS being discovered at this time – Pachelbel’s canon was first printed in 1919, and only popularised in the 70s, while virtually the whole of Vivaldi’s work was unknown until the 20th century (the Four Seasons weren’t played until after WWII).]
I was definitely aware of its status as a maybe-probably-hoax, although I probably couldn’t have told you about the details. It’s funny you describe the Succession composition as anxious, because while I would agree with that statement for most of its music, the main reason it reminded me of Adagio in G is because I associate both arrangements with a feeling of grief and defeat–which feels appropriate for the scene with Tom. Maybe there’s some dread in there, too…
The subtitles also confirmed that the ending song this week was the same piece used when Roman ripped up the $1mil Home Run check in the pilot episode, Roman’s first real display of tyranny in the show. It tied it nicely to him convincing Dad to run a Nazi for President this episode.
[NM, misread original comment]
Man, Shiv keeps taking L after L after L, huh? It’s kind of a nice twist to make the one who fashions herself as an icy girlboss to be as much of a failchild as her siblings, but at a certain point I wonder what the point of her character will be if she never manages to effect anything.As a matter of fact, while I’m obviously loving the show so far, I do hope that it doesn’t become too self-conscious about its nastiness in the way Veep did.
You would think that this would be the moment that she finally legit rebels against her father and goes her own way, but the prospect of her taking over even though Logan is clearly in Roman’s corner is too enticing for her. So for that reason, she’ll continue to let Logan neg her while being handcuffed in a failed marriage for tinniest hope that one day he finally puts her in the top position she thinks she deserves. That’s why she’ll stick around at this point.
She proved who she was during the photo op. As much as she says she has values, she will still cower to her father’s demands.
Yup. And she’ll continue to do so under the naive and pathetic hope that at least he’ll reward her with something, anything at the end.
My god, his “you win” at her made my stomach turn.
That would kind of be the cliched way of going about it, though, wouldn’t it? If Succession is to rise above the fray, I’d actually expect Shiv to double down on her loyalty to Dad rather than making the sudden hero flip.
Eh, it won’t necessary be a hero flip as I see the valid point Cosima is making though. Yeah, sure, Shiv will continue to allow herself to be whipped around by dad in order to win a piece of the pie someday, but that can’t be all and it forever with her. Otherwise, what is the point of the character?
There’s a small part of me that wonders if the Mencken stuff will be the beginning of a more gradual disillusionment and distancing on Shiv’s part—which might be more realistic if less dramatic. But, like Tom, I’m not holding out a lot of hope.
As I was saying to blppt, it would at least give her character a sense of purpose other than this current arc. Because as the op correctly pointed out, whats the point of her character then? It can’t be just ecking out a misreable existence for the most selfish reasons just so we can point and laugh at her?
To be fair, that seems to be the raison d’etre for pretty much all of the characters in Succession. I don’t remember the specifics, but I’m pretty sure some classical author described satire’s purpose as evoking pity and scorn. Most of Armstrong’s work has been described as satire, and that definition seems particularly appropriate for Succession. But it’s also interfering with my enjoyment of this season—even if detached judgment is supposed to be the appropriate mode for consuming this genre of television.
Sure, but again, it goes back to what the op correctly points out that the show is starting to get too self-conscious and repetitive about the satire and not in a good way.
I made a similar comment last week. As someone who has recommended Succession to a lot of people, I’ve been left fairly cold by the last couple of episodes. I am mildly/moderately interested to see where the show goes in terms of ATN’s relationship with Mencken and his ilk over the next few episodes, but it doesn’t feel all that promising in terms of the character dynamics, which have always the most interesting part of Succession to me…
You’re right. The setup as far as the first 1-3 episodes was great, but lately it seems to regressing to more of the same and being too self-concious and on the nose with the satire. Yes we get it that these people are so terrible that they’re running Nazis for President, suing Greenpeace, and insulting the federal government to their faces, but as we’re all saying here, where are the character arcs and development? After the amazing arc Kendall, Greg, and even Roman somewhat, had in season 2, this just feels like a rehash of season 1, and it’s disappointing. They made such a big deal about Stewy, Sandi, Josh, but it all amounted to nothing anyway. It seems like the show doesn’t want to take risks with anything they’ve built.
Last review someone cited a (much) earlier article from The Atlantic that talked about Succession as a sit com where nothing changes with the implication being that the characters’ obscene wealth protects them from any real consequences. (At least the Roys—Tom and Greg are still on the chopping block, as the series continues to make clear.)I read the article and didn’t think much of it at the time, but it’s felt increasingly prescient as this season has progressed.
It’s not even an implication any more, its actually happening between the investor revolt and fed investigation amounting to nothing, Kendall’s revolt fizzling out, or even Logan’s health issues or his divorce with Marcia not affecting him one bit. They seem to be saying: “these horrible people are so rich they can get away with anything” which is fair, but that’ll get old and tiresome to watch. It’ll be nice to see them squirm and struggle a bit.
I genuinely hope they had an ‘ending’ in mind for this show when they pitched it, and start building towards it soon. HBO has been decent at not letting shows live past their prime (GoT aside)—unlike Showtime, where every original show they create seems to last twice as long as it should.
I’m sure they do have an ending in mind, but the concern is how long and many seasons will it take for them to get there. Season 4 is already confirmed, but I think one more season should be enough.
Armstrong said it would be at most 5 seasons. 4 might be enough, but I guess we’ll see.
The problem with GoT was that the show had about 4 seasons worth of stories left to tell and they decided to tell them in 2 abridged final seasons, which were horribly affected by the lack of pacing and logic, and the show fell apart completely. If anything, that show would’ve done better with MORE episodes, if the creators had wanted to stay on and finish it properly. But, alas.
That’s essentially the situation. Any one of the Roys can pull the ripcord and bail and still live a life of luxury that anyone reading this thread can only dream of. Connor chose that route and has apparently dicked off for his entire life, and is only just now interested in making something of himself out of sheer boredom/mid-life crisis.
I wonder if the situation is a bit like what I thought happened with The Sopranos, where the producers wanted us to remember most of the characters are horrible and we shouldn’t expect them to ever change, unless it’s to get worse. (there are some characters like Tom where I’m not sure if they are becoming more sympathetic or if it’s just he is so down in the dumps now but any taste of power again and he will right back in human furniture mode)
I have a real feeling that everything is going to be alright with Tom and that once it does, he’ll go back to being human furniture, especially to Shiv, while continuing to punch down on Greg. We’re seeing it in this episode that despite the Roys essentially throwing him to the wolves, he’s still slavishly devoted to them for the reasons Shiv also stays. At least with The Sopranos, characters did change, get killed off, etc, as others here are pointing out, the screenwriters and HBO seem to be content with this being a Veep-esque sitcom where we spend every week laughing and pointing at their awfulness, but nothing more.
You’re probably right. A part of me thinks having them involved with an extremist Presidential candidate, even those like Shiv who convince themselves they are good people, is the show saying there is no going back and we aren’t going to have the “luxuriate in the awfulness until the downbeat final scene that makes you feel morally superior,” a la Veep. I guess we’ll see. I don’t want to defend the show a lot until the season is over because it’s mostly the cast that keep me involved right now, along with how well made the show is – the material for Kendall in particular this season just feels like it should have been much more compelling than it is.
The show is definitely taking a long, luxurious soak in Shiv’s unearned arrogance and easy corruptibility. Which I am OK with as it is quite enjoyable for me, but I agree if this is just all there is going to be to Shiv’s story, it would ultimately limit her relevance.However, it looks to me like the show is now gradually setting up Shiv realizing she is never actually going to get the handoff from Logan, such that she decides to attempt her own hostile takeover. I think her secretly maneuvering for her own specific board seat, and now her attempt to nominate a President who promised to clear out Logan to her benefit, are both indications of where she is heading. And I read a lot of her current scenes, including what she is actually thinking about when managing Tom, and right up through the photo “win,” as no longer being just about her ongoing moral corruption, but also about her trying to strategize around her upcoming move against Logan.As in, I thought her concern about the photo was not just moral, but also practical in the sense she is afraid of it hurting her own future interests. Which makes at least some sense of her “win” being not standing right next to a proto-Nazi, and not smiling happily, since she at least believes that will be easier for her to spin later.Of course in this show, all that could blow up on her before it really gets started. But I do at least feel like we are reaching the natural end of the “Shiv crosses every moral line to get Logan’s approval” story, and moving on to the “Shiv in her arrogance tries to get outside help to take down Logan” story.
Great point about the comparison to Veep. I too hope that the show doesn’t go in that direction.I suspect that Logan’s lingering, questioning look at Shiv as she walked away after the group photo was meant to mirror our own thoughts — has Logan finally pushed her too far? I certainly hope so.This question applies to Tom and Connor as well. I think the family underestimated just how much they pushed Connor in this episode — dangling the possibility of the family backing his campaign for POTUS, then mercilessly yanking it away from him because they were never serious about it in the first place. Connor is as awful as the rest of them, but that whole tease seemed needlessly cruel.
How far can Logan push those who are loyal to him before they ultimately break and turn against him?
The problems with Veep were that they lost confidence in the show’s initial premise and spent too much time doing ridiculous presidential election/succession arcs, and that they developed an absurdly large cast of characters and seemingly guaranteed each of them at least two improv scenes per show; the show became shapeless and tried to lean on easy insult lines for humor. I’m actually fairly confident Succession has an endpoint in mind, and while they have a lot of characters they’re happy to sit some on the bench for extended periods. I don’t see it falling into cheap nastiness, like Veep did.
I’m not gonna tell Veep to cut back on the insults—it would be like telling Babe Ruth to maybe ease up on the home runs a bit. The trouble is:A: Trying too hard to go Trump (everything Jonah did, Amy becoming Kellyanne for no reason)B: Thinking that the appeal of the show is “oh what ~horrible people~ they are!” and not the fact that they’re interesting characters who happen to be horrible people, so they therefore do whatever’s meanest and stupidest all the time.
I think the insult quality took a substantial dive after Iannucci left.
Shiv keeps trying to play things both ways. She wants to make her father proud and plays his games, but simultaneously plots against him and makes her own moves. She’ll trample Gerri if it means getting to deliver good news to dad, and at the same time conspire to send her father to prison. She chose the middle path and is getting middling results. Meanwhile Kendall is waging all out war and seems to be flailing at windmills. Roman is 100% committed to playing Logan’s game. That’s why he’s winning.
“In a room full of Timothy McVeighs, does Connor suddenly look like a Roosevelt?” – ah, we were all wondering, Shiv!
I loved the mini Con-head meet-up with “Panhandle Pete” and the little reveal that one of Pierce heirs to PGN is Connor’s advisor.
Perfect amount of Connor. Great scene, great episode.
Tom is breaking my heart.
I want to set him up with a friend of mine so he won’t feel so excluded…
Every. Single. Week.
Tom is a broken man. He was even going to take Greg’s sins with him to prison. That is quite a change in their relationship.
Greg is Tom’s one true love, not Shiv!
He’s always been pretty protective of Greg, though. During boar on the floor, he didn’t narc out Greg as the source of the leak (I know he ultimately wasn’t, but both he and Greg thought Greg was).
You mean Greg’s sin of listening to Tom when he was told to oversee the destruction of the papers and act as the patsy? Very noble of Tom.
Waiting for the episode where he dumps Shiv’s ass hard.
I’m wondering if that might be the cliff-hanger for this season. Tom decides he’d rather not go to prison and all hell breaks loose.
I am wondering why Tom and Greg are the ones being singled out for prison sentences. When you look at the totality of the crimes committed, their role was relatively minor—simply destruction of evidence. What about that guy Bill who worked for the company for years, and helped with the cover-up? There must be dozens of others who are more culpable.
Yeah great question–probably because he volunteered. I’m also assuming that the writers took your question into account with the “Christmas Tree” nickname, but as you say–surely there’s enough that he can’t be the only one going down. Though with the other plotline of the ‘papers not being as sensational as advertised’ maybe it will fizzle out?
It would seem like the ones who organized the pay-offs and the original cover-ups would be far more culpable. Tom and Greg are late-comers, and it seems like evidence tampering or some such thing would be what they’d be charged with?
I am wondering why Tom and Greg are the ones being singled out for prison sentences. When you look at the totality of the crimes committed, their role was relatively minor—simply destruction of evidence. What about that guy Bill who worked for the company for years, and helped with the cover-up? There must be dozens of others who are more culpable.
I think the problem with Tom is that Bill handed him that information and Tom chose to look at it, and then chose to get rid of it. If he had just been ignorant to it and chose NOT to look at it, he might have avoided being “infected by the virus,” as he put it back in Season 1. If Tom had just reported it right away, he wouldn’t have been held liable, but not only did he find out about the cruises, he then chose to actively cover it up.
That seems too similar to last season’s finale, but who knows?
I assumed that was coming, but now I’m not so sure. This episode he seemed to make his mind up, talking to Kendall – as he says, all that’s happened is that he’s fallen in love. He’s desperately frustrated with siobh’s inability to give him what he wants, but I think turning down Ken was his way of saying that he’s going to stick by his wife no matter what…[also yay, Siobh actually recognised the problems between them and tried to address them. She did so in a ham-handed and inadequate way, but it’s still progress!]
Yeah, it’s disappointing that he’s regressed a lot from his “I’m not sure if the sad I would feel without you is worse than the sad I feel with you” moment. The usual next step in that line of thought is “Wait, the fact I’m even asking that means you suck. Bye!”
I’m getting a weird feeling that he’s testing Shiv, using the threat of jail as a stress test on their marriage. I would not be surprised if he walks away from it this season.
He is such a great character. I can’t really think of another like him on TV. He’s been outside looking in since the beginning (almost like the family joke) that the only way he can find to ingratiate himself is to go to prison for the family’s sins. There are a lot of great performances on this show, but his is just masterful. I will be pissed if he hasn’t earned at the very least the Emmy nomination for this season.
He projects/exorcizes his feelings about being in the outside when he tortures Greg.
Matthew is such a great actor, Tom is so slimy at times yet I feel so much compassion and concern for him, I want him to jump ship, take these people down and go on to a happy life!
This is where the Trump half of the Roys as Trump/Murdoch hybrids works to the show’s detriment IMO, as it evokes the nonsense theory that Ivanka secretly cares even a little about the country.Yes, Shiv is self-serving as ever in supporting her guy, but her hostility towards the fascist feels genuine. Which works for the show but rubs me the wrong way unintentionally because of how much folks tried to paint Ivanka as the kind of person Shiv is (at least a LITTLE mindful of morality) and by all accounts she’s just monstrous.
Movies and tv do not have to match the moral high ground you believe to be on
It’s been interesting to see over the seasons how much negative, black and white judgement from viewers the characters have gotten. I would contend that if anyone grew up in those circumstances—great wealth, power, privilege, with that abusive father—they might not be the same person they are now. It’s easy to say that I, as a normal decent human being, wouldn’t change and would still act morally, but would I? That’s why the show retains empathy for these people.
i haven’t felt any empathy from the show for shiv all season tbh, shit, this week they made her look as dumb as they make connor.
Shiv can’t even remotely be this show’s version of Ivanka because Ivanka is a brainless idiot. She’s actually almost completely the opposite of Trump’s daughter..Plus, Ivanka is universally adored by Daddy, creepily so.
The point is that if Shiv isn’t actually willing to act on her objections, then they don’t matter at all. It’s entirely possible that Ivanka secretly thinks like Shiv does, she just hides it in public, in which case who cares?
I think even with Trump still clogging the drain, Ivanka herself has become irrelevant enough that most viewers are less likely to watch and compare Shiv to her.
I just don’t see any of the Trump comparison besides “daddy issues” and
“from New York”. The Roys are intelligent, cunning, and shape the world to their thoughts, the Trumps are the opposite of all that. Shiv of all people is no Ivanka and Logan is no Donald…
They are not the Trumps, the Murdochs are a better fit.
Kendall is in nearly every way Don Junior.
Kendall, especially from second season, is not really Don Jnr either because at least Kendall has some kind of conscious, spine, and moral ground.
Junior would never turn on his daddy
Trump hasn’t shaped the world to his “thoughts?”
He has but his own thoughts were shaped first. Trump doesn’t have an original thought in that tiny little mind of his. Trump, if anyone is a Roy child, shaped by daddy issues and insecurities. Logan is a force, all on his own. Trump is a POS, shaped by a fragile ego and whatever loudest voice tells him he’s the very best. Trump can be easily manipulated, Logan cannot.
We know Logan has daddy issues of his own. Likewise, the dude was manipulated by Rhea batting her eyelashes at him last season for the hell of it, and if you poke his ego a little bit he turns immediately into a volatile bullheaded jerkass. He’s definitely got a more deft hand than Trump, and a lot more self-awareness, but I don’t think he’s as far removed from similar ways of thinking as you’re making him out to be.
I don’t think his “thoughts” go very far beyond “what’s out there that I can use to my advantage,” but if cutting himself a nice, fat, consequence-free path for his billowy suit to move through unencumbered counts as “shaping the world” it’s pretty undeniable (also, the shape is round.)
Right, I think that’s kind of the magic here. It’s easy to look for/want to look for Trump parallels but certainly some dashes of Trump were anomalies, but what the Roys are doing isn’t Trumpian per se: it’s literally just everyday business as it’s been for a long, long time. We’ve had roomfuls of “important people” “picking” a president for a long, long, long time. Always, kinda.
This show is not about the Trumps. Let that faulty parallel go.
I think there’s no need to make that connection, though. I enjoy the show on its own merits and see no point in trying to map it onto real-world people or events. They are their own (fictional) people.
I’m with you–it never occurs to me to even try to map this family onto real life people. The obvious comparison to Fox is unavoidable, but beyond that these people portrayed on the show are all so competent I wouldn’t even know where to begin trying to find real-life counterparts.
Are they really all that competent, though? How many situations have we seen them win through sheer luck, or by the skin of their teeth, or because they happened to make the “right” call for stupid, petty reasons?I agree with you on the fact that mapping them onto real people is a futile endeavor. They’re more of a pastiche of power and wealth in the hands of a few as a general concept. But I think the Roys and those in their orbit are all far less competent than they pretend to be. They have the resources to make sure even their failures add up to continued success. Calling them competent is just buying into their own myth-making.
Fair point–perhaps they just seem more competent, and perhaps that’s only due to the power that comes from wealth….which, honestly, should make it a lot easier to map them to real life people.
Yeah, exactly! The “Logan is a chess-master” thing is baffling to me. He’s a bull in a china shop who usually “succeeds” because his goal is just to break stuff.
Right. They draw inspiration from the Murdochs and Trump as necessary, and it’s worked so far. It’s not a thinly-veiled documentary!
It may be more inspired by one of the Murdochs’ distaste for Fox News. I remember reading that one of his sons was rumoured to be “concerned” about its impact on society or something.
I have never seen any of the Roy family as having anything to due with the Trumps (or basically anything other than very, very thinly veiled Murdochs).
Gosh I wish Dasha would podcast about me
I really liked the direction and camera work here: more intimate close-ups, with scenes having a placid quality (belying the charged, brual content), the vibe of a European film.Surprising to see Justin Kirk in that role. Now a line from a great previous project of his, “Now the great work begins”, has a very sinister new context.I felt for Tom and I really felt for Shiv. Glad she has some principles. In the quick cauldron of Logan telling her to be in the photo, she caved, but I’m hoping his continuing abuse and now his support for this fascist will make her break with Daddy too.Tom never had diner food? Seemed like it. The dinner meat can be crap but everybody orders the all-day, much better breakfasts anyway.Picturing Conner as president. He wouldn’t be so bad? He’s kind of a nice guy (have we ever seen him mistreat regular people like we’ve seen Roman do?) and while some of his policies are wacky, he’s not crazy and not deeply wedded to a harmful ideology.
I think his girlfriend might have a thing or two to say about how he treats her. Hint: it aint great!
I was gonna say he’s being oblivious instead of terrible and abusive towards her, but then I remembered I watched Kevin Can Fuck Himself and maybe Connor’s narcissism is greater and more harmful than I thought. But it’s hard to get mad at the face of Alan Ruck, whom we all like.
She’s not his girlfriend she’s a hooker
The problem with Conner (and probably Shiv, definitely Roman) is that they’re all still puppets for Logan, so whatever they might appear to be inside is going to be eclipsed by whatever Logan wants (at least until he passes).
He went apeshit on the caterers because the table butter was too hard that time.
THE BUTTER’S ALL FUCKED
Well Conner wants to privatize water and abolish all income taxes, so he is wedded to some harmful ideologies. I don’t think this came up, but the most obvious potential problem with Conner running for president is that his partner’s a call girl.
Connor is essentially the GOP base come to life. I think he’d be a perfect candidate for the party, tool for the family, and a disastrous president. You know there’s no way in hell he got the COVID vaccine, right?
He is, but this episode made me think that he actually seemed old-fashioned GOP compared to the ascendant alt-right.Indeed I guarantee you he did his own research on the COVID vaccines
He seems to be in a middle spot between old guard GOP, who I guess is represented by VP Boyer, and the alt-right pseudo intellectual internet-troll-come-to-life Menken.
Yeah. Connor probably funded a few Tea Party rallies.
He wouldn’t be so bad? He’s kind of a nice guy (have we ever seen him mistreat regular people like we’ve seen Roman do?) and while some of his policies are wacky, he’s not crazy and not deeply wedded to a harmful ideology.
He tried to fire the catering staff at the charity event he was running in season one because the butter was too cold. Even a fraction of power and authority and he freaked the hell out.
I forgot this.
It’s a testament to the show & the actors that I can be so involved and care about their sleazy machinations that I almost forget how insane and detached from reality they are, until Tom thinks diner food is actual preparation for prison.
And that this is all fiction. I keep making excuses for imaginary people’s behavior.
Yah I think the pain we all feel for Shiv is the same pain we feel when you’re blood is literally boiling after arguing with a racist uncle but you’re still forced to take a photograph with them and the family. Except these family dynamics have much bigger consequences, and it’s bizarre that families like this are allowed to control so much of the country. Shiv is still out of touch with reality, and her principles are hypocritical in relation to her wealth hoarding, but in that moment she felt easy to connect with.
Stealing this from a Twitter thread:Tag yourself in this week’s Succession.I’m Tom’s cake batter thrown against a brick wall.
You know, Tom got a lot of sympathetic moments this episode, but that line almost ruined my sympathy for him. Nothing like telling your partner there’s no value to being intimate if it’s not going to result in a baby.
I totally get how insulting and demeaning that phrase would be in any other context, but in this context I think Tom is simply acknowledging a truth. Siobhan doesn’t really love him. She’s not committed to their marriage, as evidenced by her pushing him into an open relationship last season and then letting him go to prison without so much as a shrug.It’s awful that Tom wants to impregnate his wife so she has to stay with him, but now he knows she won’t do that, he may as well not pretend they have any kind of respect for one another.
Are there very real issues with the way Shiv treats Tom? Absolutely. Unquestionably.Is it still gross/revealing that his “solution” for this problem involves conceiving a child when she’s made it clear that’s not something she’s interested in at this time? Also yes.It’s an indicator that they’re both making mistakes and actively contributing to the toxic relationship dynamic. Tom has every reason to feel hurt and disrespected, but that doesn’t make his response OK.
Arguably one of the best things about Succession is that no character is steadfastly ‘good’ or ‘bad’, ‘sympathetic’ or ‘unsympathetic’
You wouldn’t know it to read the comments about Tom. I get it—he and Greg are the show’s version of Shiv’s comment about Connor looking like a Roosevelt in a room full of Timothy McVeighs.But I wish the love for Tom was a little more tempered, even though I recognize that the character’s very Midwestern shtick may resonate more given that the AV Club/Onion has Madison, WI roots. (I have lived there myself.)
In general I think the ‘I’m rooting for Tom’, ‘I’m rooting for Connor’, ‘I thought we were supposed to root for Shiv’ etc comments betray a radical misunderstanding of the show…one of the best things about it is how it shows how awful people address very human concerns, and sometimes actually acknowledging their flaws, but I don’t think we’re supposed to find anyone a protagonist per se.
This is, in my estimation, the absolute correct take. Within episodes and arcs I find myself pulling for a character here or there to resist their worst impulses. But overall? Nah. There’s no protagonist. Nobody here is a “good guy,” and that’s the point. The show does a good job of establishing momentary glimpses of humanity in the characters, but it does way, way more work to expose how flawed and morally bankrupt they all are. At this point, who are we supposed to root for? Nobody. We’re supposed to be appalled yet entertained by the moral rot that has flowed from Logan and infected all of them.
NM. Pumpkinhead said it better
I think it’s just one more way in which he’s reaching out to her for something, and not getting anything in return. This week she gave in for a moment and offered him pity sex, explicitly because she couldn’t think of anything to say in their conversation, and for him, however unreasonably, the fact that she is only willing to have sex with him when she knows there won’t be any consequences is just a continuation of her refusal to comit to him in any way – sexually, reproductively, politically, legally. They have a relationship in which he has commited everything – to the extent of accepting going to prison – and she insists on, if you’ll excuse the pretentious quote, ‘love on her own terms’, in which she commits nothing and is immune from any consequences whatsoever.
Mark-Linn Baker—it to0k me a couple of minutes to place the face. I love the different character actors inserted in this show, and how it takes a bit of time to recognize them. It was dizzying how much went on overtly and behind the scenes in this episode.
I love that he’s still there as Connor’s consultant. In the “Tern Haven” episode when we first met the Pierce family, they both hated each other until they got drunk together offscreen and Connor revealed he “offered him the State Department.”
So weird to see the alt-right demagogue played by the guy who played Prior Walter in Angels in America. Lent him a kind of perverse intensity tho.
This is probably the only episode where i did not find myself laughing out loud. (usually at Tom/Greg).
I dont know who Shiv pissed off in the wardrobe department, but she has had some terrible outfits lately. So it was nice to see this corrected in this episode. She looked great.The alchemy that happens when you get something like this, that is so perfectly cast, where you can not imagine another actor playing a part is such an amazing thing to witness. But, Matthew Macfayden might be the most tremendous choice by casting of the group. He is marvelous in this role and a terribly gifted actor.He is banging Kerry for sure, was there ever a doubt?You win Binky was my “holy shit, ouch” moment.
There are times when an episode of SUCCESSION really allows one of the supporting actors to shine. Mathew Macfadyen was absolutely terrific tonight. Scene after scene his malaise rippling across his face, his eyes watering almost as if to break in tears. Just remarkable delivery, the diner scene most especially.
I was thinking of this in the part of the recap about not much with Greg and Tom tonight. I thought their little scenes together were fascinating, in large part due to Matthew’s performance. Greg is using Tom, when Tom is in a very low moment, and you can’t really feel sorry for Tom, because Tom was abusive toward him and helped teach him to become the man he now is, yet Matthew’s face in that moment at the diner, where he knew Greg was using him and was so desperate for any comfort or kindness that he still went along, really got to me. And the later scenes where Greg was the belle of the hatemonger ball and so many emotions flashed across Tom’s face – jealousy of Greg for being where he was not, sorrow at the sight of his oh-so-moral cousin-in-law grinning at white supremacists, and flickers of the other complex feelings he has for Greg that I don’t think he wants to process too much. One of the reasons I wish they still made silent films is because they are an artform all their own, and there are some actors around today who would absolutely kill in them. Matthew is one of the top picks I’d have.
Have you seen him in Pride & Prejudice? I caught the scene in the rain the other night and he was just heart breaking. He has the goods. And in interviews he’s just delightful.
Came here to say just that. MVP of the episode for sure.
I thought the same thing – this episode showcased a major character turning point for Tom. He went from plainly obnoxious caricature to a compelling player. Loved this episode. – Though I have to admit I don’t quite understand why Tom has to go to prison, and why he volunteered to take the hit.
Because he was in charge of the part of the company that did cruises and directly involved in the cover up.
Yes, but why not deflect that blame – seemed weird that he embraced that responsibility kind of quickly. Is it a cry for love from Shiv? Is he testing her?
I desperately wish for Tom to switch teams, I only wish Kendall hadn’t fucked up so badly to make it a non-option. He did seem to become more aware of the farce taking place around him when he got back though.
He’s not a Roy, but I wouldn’t describe him as one of the “supporting actors”. Probably had as much screen time as any of them.
I’m glad the reviewer singled out that Tom/Ken dialogue, both actors were great but that should be Macfadyen’s Emmy reel.
The Tom/Ken scene was the highlight for me as well, and my favorite micro-moment is within the lines noted by Roxana. Tom is at his lowest point, but he’s only going to take so much of Ken’s shit. And when he snapped back with the “you know what I think … I think you’re going to get fucked because you always get fucked and I’ve never seen Logan get fucked,” it landed so perfectly. An absolute knife to Ken’s jugular. Macfadyen was awesome in that scene.
Kendall’s pathetic response of taking photos of Tom, as if Logan or Shiv would even care. Tom would tell them, “He wanted to meet, he offered me nothing and I told him he’s going to lose” and they’d have a laugh at dumb Ken.
I’ve watched that scene by itself like five times, it’s so brilliant. That line really felt like a moment of clarity for Tom. And he’s right!
yeah, even without shiv constantly serving him up pure evil for him to act against, guy is a force of nature in this season.
I think it was the first ep where I became conscious of Tom as a person who didn’t come from immense privilege. He’s not like these other people. In many ways, he’s almost like the ghost of Christmas future for Cousin Greg.
What does matter is how quickly Mencken and Roman vibeIn the last couple of episodes, Roman has gone from unlikable but genuinely somewhat sympathetic to really and truly gross. It’s a realistic transition in terms of how American millennials get drawn into fascist and fascist-adjacent ideology. It definitely fits with his characterization in the rest of the series—and of course the deeper he goes down this path, the more Logan is into it—but I’m having a hard time controlling my repulsion nonetheless.On a related note, people have been talking about finding a line that Shiv will not cross, and I was really hoping that the photo with Mencken was going to be her breaking point. Kendall’s wrong about a lot of things, and Tom was probably right to turn him down, but his pitch about Tom needing to stand up to the family in order to get Shiv to respect him was not wrong.
The scene last week where Roman watched his father humiliate Shiv and then run to his side to call her a bitch seemed to be a particularly revealing point in his character. Where in the past, Roman was always a fuckup who wasn’t taken seriously, we’re seeing now what it does to his personality when he’s able to get a toehold of respect from his father. Not good!
Roman is a coward and a lapdog. Shiv and Tom will eventually turn and side with Ken. And when that happens, I hope Roman rots with his delusional dad. Also, Logan is now banging that dumb broad PR rep? Oh, bother.
Shiv and Tom will eventually turn and side with KenThe promo for next episode includes Kendall in a room with huge fake front pages featuring headlines that are jabs at his siblings’ expense as part of his end of days party, so I don’t see that reconciliation happening any time soon/at all.
I don’t think Kerry is dumb, nor do I think she’s a PR rep – I think she’s his assistant. Karolina and Hugo are on the PR team.
That was the beginning of my personal disillusionment with Roman, too.
I don’t think anyone’s forgotten it in any way but in so many ways, Roman has always seemed most horrifying of all to me: the funtimes shitbag sweary guy who just grins and admits he’s soulless and as such, you feel slightly disarmed – so in that very first episode, audiences get a glimmer of “so maybe he’s the less awful one somehow, actually” right up until that ballgame. Up until this last episode I’d say that was the most horrifying moment of TV I’ve ever seen – I’ve never been affected so much by a show, let alone a pilot – until this episode, watching him just fucking cozy up to a nazi while he rubs some lotion on his hands and takes the world’s most pathetic stab at asking the nazi to be a little less evil before abandoning that effort because it’s far more fun to let a monster loose on the world to torment the (also shitty!) sister you like seeing in pain.
That really bothered me because Roman and Shiv seem to have the closest relationship of any two siblings (remember when he slapped her and then she beat him up in the hospital in season 1?), so him rushing to Daddy to throw her under the bus just showed what an asshole he is.
1000x this. There’s a weird, seemingly out-of-place scene during Shiv’s wedding where Roman chastises Shiv for being too PC, how we should be free to use any words we want. But now I see that as the germ of where Roman is now, very alt-right curious, and imagining that as a good foundation for the country. It’s pretty scary, really. I suspect in the next few episodes we’ll see Shiv trying to figure out what her line is. Hey Gil’s still running for president, right?
You’re the fascist in this story, pubehead.
I tend to think Roman is a true sociopath and lacking in any ideology — except wanting raw power like Logan. It just so happens that Roman’s nihilism/the power granted by the Roy’s obscene wealth make for wonderful, natural bed fellows with fascism.
It was an interesting to see Roman make a genuinely good pitch to Mencken, who of course would be intrigued by a cult-of personality worshiping state media apparatus.
Unlike other characters, I’ve never felt an ounce of empathy for Roman. I think Roman’s (even) darker turn is fitting, intriguing, and unfortunately far too timely.
I feel like the show was low-key suggesting that as terrible as Roman is on the surface, deep down he does truly have love in his heart — for his siblings, for his father, and ultimately that suggests that he has the capacity to be a good person (even if he appears to be the most acerbic member of his family, next to his father). But this episode, particularly the bathroom negotiation between him and Mencken (which I more than half expected to break into full on fucking) kind of removes all doubt — he really is as terrible as he appears. A desperate part of me was hoping Roman was leading Mencken on and then once they got in front Logan he would throw him under the bus, but no dice.
Roman seems to love/fear/admire Logan the most of the 4 siblings. In the hospital in Season 1, he was like a child, “He won’t die,” just pure denial that nothing bad can ever happen to his father. And I think he’s come to realize that being ruthless is the only way to Logan’s heart, hence the most brash, abrasive candidate being the one to take ATN into the future. It’s gross, but it’s true to his character. He’s the beaten dog of the 4 children, and he’ll do anything to please his master.
i think the first couple of episodes of this season really had people warm up to roman because he’s interacting with people he genuinely cares for, his family and gerri. but roman out of all the siblings has inherited logan’s viciousness and penchant for cruelty. he has no sense of empathy for anyone else outside his circle. how he treated that man with the tattoo just two episodes ago showed that. i appreciate the writers slowly showing some of his depths but ultimately not letting people forget that the roman we saw in that pilot ripping that million dollar check is still very much roman.i truly think had it been roman who was in that car with the waiter in season 1, i don’t think he would have even made the choice to dive in after them. that’s the difference between him and kendall.
Yeah, I lost all hope for Shiv when she sold her soul once and for all by getting in the picture. It looked for a minute like it was going to be a turning point for her, like she was finally going to stand up to the family for her convictions, but that went right down the drain. You’d think she could come up with a good response to Dad’s asking her if she’s part of the family, it’s a softball question at that point, she could have said, no, not if it means installing a Nazi sympathizer as President, I’m out; but she’s too weak even for that.
Mathew Macfadyen is so damn good. Tom and Greg moments are friggin’ magic. The quality of this show keeps going strong, I’m very impressed.
Goddamn…the score in the end of the episode was just brilliant.
next week’s promo looks like a horror movie which, honestly, is in line with how I’ve been watching succession for the last few weeks- peeking through my fingers, laughing uncomfortably
I. Can’t. Wait.
It’s like if his season 2 rap was an entire episode. Fuck me I’m not ready for it.
…but let’s be real, that’s not going to happen.Hm… this sounds strangely familiar in regards to another person running for President
“I truly thought that Roman and Jeryd were going to kiss”Yes! The sexual chemistry was a lot and I wasn’t sure if it was just me??? So thank you for validating my experience… I definitely thought something was going to happen.
Me too, especially after Shiv made all those comments about wanting to f* parents.
Their tension got turned up a shitton in the bathroom. Like yeah, they’re both absolutely horrendous people, but bloody hell I haven’t seen sexual chemistry like that in a while in a show. I wonder how all that will turn out and how Gerri will factor into this.
I thought so too. It nailed that weird homoeroticism that seems to be at the core of the alt right.
This episode felt chilling and prophetic. All the GOP needs to seal the deal on fascism in America is a smarter, cooler, more superficially “palatable” Trump. I’m waiting in terror for the real-life Jeryd Mencken.
Seriously. Trump with a modicum of self control and political savvy is a scary thought.
I think that was supposed to be Josh Hawley, who has all the charisma of a dead fish. It’s difficult to find a Justin Kirk in real life, so they will probably end up going with someone like DeSantis.
I love that Tom is practicing eating prison food. It seems like Tom sees going to prison, but knocking Shiv up first, as his way of washing his hands of her and the family while still holding onto some of that money and status he’s truly in love with via their kid. (And hilariously wanting to get the pregnancy out of the way during his 9-12 month sentence.)
Phew, this episode made me queasy.
It was legitimately terrifying.
Here’s hoping we all end up in a universe where Succession turns out to be horror-adjacent speculative fiction as opposed to actually predictive.
Logan seems a little too invincible right now. I think a Kendall-Shiv-Tom alliance is coming.
I fucking hope so. I’m sick of him making everyone do their little dances in front of him for his amusement.
Nah, the promo included images—in the high speed flashing part—of very mean spirited fake newspapers with headlines at Kendall’s siblings’ expense. Kendall doesn’t just burn bridges, he blows them up.
There’s no way anyone is stupid enough to side with Kendall. He has nothing left but his delusions and millions of dollars.
I know that all of these people are pathological in their need for power, but damn I just keep wondering why at least some of them don’t just take their money and fuck off. No amount of power and money is worth what Logan puts them through, and they’re all unimaginably rich already.
I think Shiv-Tom could do some damage, but I don’t think they’re going to align with Kendall, who seems genuinely out of options and running on empty right now. They’re more likely to go it alone, I think, than hook up with Kendall. Kendall throughout the first two and a half seasons has shown time and again that he is unable to rally people to his positions and maintain a coalition. He’s not a leader, and he definitely won’t be able to join in any kind of alliance with any of his siblings because he demands to be 100% in charge, as we saw with the siblings’ little bedroom summit earlier in the season.
I was DEFINITELY feeling like this when Roman and Mencken were vibing! (of course Mencken is revolting and Roman is torpedoing my previous enjoyment of him, but still…)
Was it me or did Shiv come across as having some scruples in this episode, given the look of horror on her face when she realized that the family was going to back the alt-right fascist guy? I suspect that Logan’s lingering, questioning look at her as she walked away after the group photo was meant to mirror our own thoughts — has Logan finally pushed her too far? I certainly hope so.This question applies to Tom and Connor as well. I think the family underestimated just how much they pushed Connor in this episode — dangling the possibility of the family backing his campaign for POTUS, then mercilessly yanking it away from him because they were never serious about it in the first place. Connor is as awful as the rest of them, but that whole tease seemed needlessly cruel. How far can Logan push those who are loyal to him (or loyal to the family) before they ultimately break and turn against him?
I gasped at the scene where Logan asks Roman and Shiv to weigh in on Connor’s candidacy. It’s such a typical Logan move: throw a grenade in between his children to keep them off balance and let them eat each other rather than unify against him. If Roman and Shiv take down Connor, Logan doesn’t have to, and it has the added bonus of driving a wedge between the siblings. Plus he gets to watch Roman and Shiv squirm. It’s so despicable all around, and Logan constantly uses his children to undermine each other like this. It’s diabolical.Like you, I’m wondering if he’s running out of chances to play that card. Shiv clearly had grave misgivings about Mencken, and Logan humiliated her after the shareholder meeting. I guess the question for me now is how Shiv breaks. Will she lash out and try to hurt Logan? Or will she be broken in a way that sees her simply go silent and hope he doesn’t lash out at her instead?
Damn, I have to give credit where it’s due. I DID NOT understand where you were getting the “Logan and Kerry are bangin” take last week. I was WRONG.
I got a STRONG gay vibe off Roman in the bathroom and I LOVED it. He was being actually sexy for once and it worked. LOVED IT.
I was wondering if I was misreading the scene, but it really did look like Roman was openly flirting with Jeryd (I think that’s his name) in a very sexual way. I’m glad others also picked up on it.I wonder if that’s how the scene was intentionally directed or did the actors simply choose to play it that way? I know that the cast are given a lot of room to improvise, so I suspect it was the actors who took the scene in that direction. Either way, it was a great call and it potentially raises some interesting questions.
My initial theory about Roman back in season 1 was that he was gay, but still very much in the closet — not surprising, given Logan’s views and his domineering parenting style. Roman often appears to be the one most traumatized by Logan’s abuse (though his siblings haven’t exactly come out of it unscathed either). My theory was that Logan always suspected that Roman might be gay, making him a particularly easy target for his father’s anger and abuse while growing up.Everyone told me I was reading too much into it and that Roman was more likely just asexual. But maybe there was something to my initial theory.Or maybe Roman is just incredibly good at reading people and playing to their tendencies. Kudos to Roman, if that’s the case.
Jeryd certainly seemed receptive to Roman’s flirtations. At the very least, he wasn’t put off by the vibe, despite his apparent far-right ideology. Which begs the question, is gay fascism a thing? Is it possible for someone to align themselves with far-right fascist ideology if he/she is LBGTQ, especially in the current political and social environment here in the U.S.? I don’t necessarily know the answer to that question, but I suppose anything’s possible. Look at the infamous Milo Yiannopoulos, for example. As an aside, I can’t imagine how difficult it would be to grow up as LBGTQ with a father like Logan. Sadly, it’s probably a more common scenario than one would think — we’ve come a long way with respect to tolerance, but there’s still a lot of close-minded bigotry out there.
I imagine there are *some* gay fascists out there, just like there are gay republicans (back when there was more of a distinction at least). They’re so blinded by their devotion to their (very specific interpretation of an) ideology they don’t see how others could use that ideology against them. I could see there being some who worship patriarchy and masculinity so much they cut women out of the picture entirely.
I mean, I’ve heard gay furry fascists are a thing, so presumably there’s an even larger non-furry contingent.
I suspect they gave Kirk a soupcon of Milo for flavor. But I disagree that Roman is written as gay or ace. He’s clearly a kinky submissive, into humiliation and degradation, and likely cuckolding.
I read his crush on Kirk’s fascist as that classic queer mix of idolatry and old-fashioned pants feelings. If you extrapolate this— Roman is sexually attracted to craven power, gender notwithstanding.
As for your “is gay fascism” a thing question— I think it stems from the classic far right “fuck you I got mine” ethos. When you’re rich enough, you don’t need civil rights. You don’t worry about getting fired or not being able to adopt or marry, because you’re fucking rich. If you’re white, you can just live on the DL and reap the benefits from a fascistic society, Ernst Röhm style.
Oh, Roman is at least bi-curious (or so I’ve always thought). Like you, I agree that he’s clearly the most damaged by this father’s abuse, hence the hangups and the impotence problem. I’ve always suspected that Logan’s targeting of Roman as a child was because he perceived his son as smaller, weaker, and possibly gay.
Richard Grenell. Trump appointed. Kicked out of Germany. Gay.
Not only was this a great episode, it also reminded me why I dislike every character. By the end I was left, once again, with no one to root for, but still wanting to know what happens next.
I have a minor question about the meeting between Kendall and Tom.As noted in the article, Kendall takes pictures of Tom on his phone, ostensibly to use as blackmail. How is a photo of Tom standing next to his car in a parking lot, actually incriminating in any way?
Because it’s coming from Kendall’s phone/# and Tom is looking right at him.
It’s not. And Tom’s reaction reinforces that. We’re meant, I think, to see just how little Kendall has at this point. He’s grasping at straws. It was clear in his talk with Tom that he’s got nothing to offer Tom. Why would he switch sides? Kendall can’t offer immunity or protection. Taking the picture was next step in Kendall’s fall from grace. Even a non-family member like Tom is mocking him and pointing out how impotent he is. I cannot wait for this shitshow of a birthday party next week.
Proof that Tom took the meeting.
I have a minor question about the meeting between Kendall and Tom.As noted in the article, Kendall takes pictures of Tom on his phone, ostensibly to use as blackmail. How is a photo of Tom standing next to his car in a parking lot, actually incriminating in any way?
That’s why Tom didn’t appear too worried about it. Kendall hates not having the last word — he just took a photo for lack of having anything better to say in response to Tom’s, “My hunch is that you’re going to get fucked” speech. It was a beautiful parting shot at Kendall and deep down, he knew that Tom was probably right.
I think he thought if he could say this photo was taken by me it shows we met at this time. Which so what? He could have recorded their conversation if that was his goal.
I told you all weeks ago, Kendall ain’t got shit on Logan and Waystar with his documents. Lisa all but said as much to him before she was fired, and further confirmed when Kendall went crawling to Tom.Omar Little will tell you, You Come At The King, You Best Not Miss. Well Kendall has come at Logan three times now, the vote of no confidence, the bear hug/proxy battle and the cruise scandal and he’s blown every time. Forget the ethics, from a tactical point of view Tom was absolutely right to fuck Kendall off. Kendall is a born loser who has been presented with three open goals and has failed to convert a single one.
I’m agreeing with some other commenters above in wondering if anything substantial will change at this point in the series. The set dressing changes, sure, but the conflicts and characters seem stuck. Which is maybe the point of the show, to say that wealth flash-freezes you, but at a certain point I can see this getting boring.
I do wonder if they’re going to play it a bit like Silicon Valley did – keep it in a holding pattern for a while (almost too long, you might say) but continuously blowing up the status quo as it barrels towards the end of the series. Brian Cox seems to think that there are only two more seasons, I think, after this one, so we know they aren’t spinning it out indefinitely, and hopefully we’ll get some proper forward momentum soon.
Logan has to die or be incapacitated by bad health at some point.. The show is about the “succession” which is obviously the end game here. If there are two more seasons he’ll probably be taken out at the end of the 4th and the 5th would be all-out war between the siblings.
When Logan does finally die, I predict is happens suddenly and has nothing to do with his health. Helicopter crash.
5 seasons max. Thank good this isnt a Showtime show. They’d give us 10 seasons Succession getting worse each year. The last few seasons would probably have an entirely different cast.
I’m trying to think of another drama that can pull in so many fun cameos like Brody, Root, Kirk, Skarsgård, etc. It’s become a show where interesting actors will show up in small roles (vs. some comedies where they just play a version of themselves—sometimes literally). Anyway, this aspect is a joy and I hope it keeps running for a while and they keep getting their pick.
One thing I love at the end is Shiv saying on Mencken: “My opinion counts for more! It does! It just fucking does!” Having to say you’re powerful is the first way to lose your power. Paraphrasing from some dead Roman emperor or something.
*Tywin Lannister
It was a nice mirror back to Episode 2 of this season where Kendall snapped at Shiv that her opinion only counts for more because of her “teats”
thank you for the review. i watch this show and keep thinking “this is the best show on TV? really?”.The praise for this show is disturbing.
I was 100% sure Roman and Jeryd were going to bang. Talk about a first date going VERY WELL. It had all the energy of two dudes snorting rails and getting high on their own terrible ideas. Roman’s boyishness makes it easy to underestimate him, particularly when he says everything with a smile — he might be giggling and his voice sounds like a 15 year old, but he’s definitely not kidding.Also took me a second to pick up on Jeryd dropping “H” and what that meant. Eeeek. In true 21st century politician form, he sees no difference between ideas cribbed from history (Franco, H) and pop culture (Travis Bickle). It’s all entertainment, baby! When Roman talked about Jeryd “popping” all I could think about was Sweet Dee on Always Sunny: “Groban likes his ladies to pop.”
What does matter is how quickly Mencken and Roman vibe, and I’ll be honest: It was too sexual! I was almost uncomfortable! YES! I also immediately wondered why they have not been cast as brothers yet. They’ve played similar characters, have similar mannerisms and vocal styles, and even look alike. Watching that scene was both “are they going to kiss” and “why hasn’t this pairing happened before?”
Sarah Snook if flippin’ HOT!
Sarah Snook if flippin’ HOT!