Succession returns to form as the Roy kids backstab like Daddy Logan taught them
If Succession’s third season premiere felt slightly overwritten, “Mass In Time Of War” is firing on all cylinders.
TV Reviews Succession
Whatever dust Succession needed to shake off in premiere episode “Secession,” consider it shooketh. If “Secession” felt slightly overwritten and slightly overly deliberate, “Mass In Time Of War” is firing on all cylinders. Everyone is pissed off at everyone else, everyone is hiding knives up their sleeves, everyone is plotting. Somehow a box of doughnuts creates a major narrative shift? Somehow Connor Roy is briefly a schemer? Somehow Greg the Egg might end up with a leftist lawyer to defend him against potentially both the FBI and Waystar Royco? “Mass In Time Of War” makes clear how desperate the Roys are acting and how little they really know what they’re doing, and it’s highly entertaining to watch.
Marcia’s (Hiam Abbass) face when she tells Hugo (Fisher Stevens) exactly what she needs financially and nepotistically to stand by Logan’s side again? Exquisite! Stewy’s (Arian Moayed) bemused expression—his raised eyebrows essentially saying, “This crap, one more time?”—when Kendall swears that he can deliver Logan’s head on a platter? A delight! What a joy to have both of them back, and James Cromwell too, and Character Actor Peter Riegert of Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt, One Tree Hill, Damages, and The Sopranos. A bounty of riches, truly.
Let me put all my “Jeez, this ensemble” geekery aside, because I need to save some energy for the upcoming arrival of Alexander Skarsgård. Switching gears, kudos to Jesse Armstrong for using “Mass In Time Of War” to make Kendall’s self-celebration—and martyr complex, and immature nastiness—unbelievably clear. Kendall thinks Logan is bad, and he is good, and therefore if you are not with him, you’re bad too. All the way bad! 100% bad! I think there is a valid argument to be made here that he’s somewhat right.
How could Roman and Shiv have grown up in that family and not known what kind of people were running cruises? Or not known why they called Lester “Mo”? Or not known what kind of person their father was? Remember when Shiv was working for U.S. Senator Gil Eavis (Eric Bogosian), this show’s Bernie Sanders analog, and she said she agreed with his mission and was passionate about changing the Waystar Royco culture? What happened to that person? To quote Kendall:
“I get it, sis. You’re angry with yourself. You know I did the right thing. You’re angry with yourself for never doing it. … I saved the family. … You tell yourself you’re a good person. But you’re not a good person. Right now, I’m the real you.”
Boom! Kendall is coming at this from a place of unbelievable haughtiness (and hypocrisy), but there’s a kernel of truth to this. Shiv is just as mercurial and power-hungry as her siblings, and she was the one who talked that whistleblower out of coming forward. Perhaps that was pragmatic, but it still served Logan’s agenda. But on the flip side, I can also acknowledge that Roman and Shiv are so wrapped in privilege and protection that they might not have explicitly known the same stuff that, say, Kendall did, since he’s older than them and has been in the business longer. So really, all the Roy children are wrong, to varying degrees. And Kendall’s demand for loyalty at all costs isn’t very different from Logan’s; Shiv has it right with her scoffing “Are we excluded from the Kingdom of Heaven unless we accept the one true truth?”
It’s not like the four Roy children haven’t all been in the same place at the same time before: Shiv’s wedding, Logan’s celebratory event in Dundee, the family yacht. This time around, though, they’re digging into each other with particular verve and with an instinctual sense of what makes each other tick, and I can’t quite remember a scene with this much rawness before. Kendall’s read of Shiv as insincere was correct; Shiv’s read of Roman as unable to commit was correct; her “Unsubscribe!” to Kendall’s self-important rant was gleefully mean.
And yet the alliances were unexpected, too. Roman and Shiv make sense since they both stayed at Logan’s side after the Kendall bomb, I think he trusts them the most, they’re not morons running for president, and they share legitimate-seeming concern for what Kendall’s coup will do to their old man’s health. Connor and Kendall, though, was jarring at first—but if we step back, the pettiness jumps out, no?
Connor is still pissed that Daddy wouldn’t give him that small personal loan of $100 million. Kendall is of course still pissed that Logan would sacrifice him for his own sins. And while Kendall has convinced himself that this is about saving the company, about saving its soul, and about addressing its “foundational sickness,” it’s not like Kendall is going to hand over power, right? He thinks he should be the guy to take over. Not Shiv, not Roman, not Connor. Kendall wants to get rid of one “great white” and become King Potato, and he has the gall to wonder whether his siblings won’t join him because of “cowardice or avarice,” as if Kendall wouldn’t be CEO, remain unfathomably wealthy, and accumulate more power.
Kendall would change Waystar Royco into what, CNN? Facebook? What he’s describing as this merger of news and technology isn’t exactly a groundbreaking idea, and it’s not like it would be automatically great for society, either. All businesses have an agenda, and news businesses count among those. Kendall was right in season two episode “DC” when he told Sen. Eavis that, and this slide backward in pragmatism might seem noble—but it’s self-serving, too. And so every sibling hears his offer, calls their loved ones for advice (Roman to Gerri; Shiv to Tom, whom she also persuades to offer her a half-hearted declaration of love), and backs out as soon as that box of doughnuts appears at Rava’s apartment. Who leaked where everyone was to Logan, I wonder?
What we’re talking around here is that Kendall certainly has skeletons in his closet, and the question really is whether Logan will use them. Think of what Marcia (bless you, Marcia!) asks Logan: Would he ever consider blackmailing Kendall, or any of “those fucking kids of yours”? This is the most rattled Logan has ever seemed, so much so that he reaches out to Marcia and agrees to do whatever she wants, aside from apologize about that dalliance with Holly Hunter’s Rhea Jarrell (get that bag, Marcia!). And where we end this episode for Logan is an answer to the broadcast-news query “Where is media mogul Logan Roy?” He’s back in New York, and he’s no longer hiding, and he’s going on the offensive.
This is where I think Gerri was right when she advised new apprentice Roman to back out of the Logan children’s alliance: Unless all the children are fully on board, Logan will do whatever to weasel his way between them, and even if they were to win, Stewy and Sandy Furness’s daughter Sandi (Hope Davis) are waiting in the wings. Continued Roy family control of Waystar Royco is not guaranteed, even with Logan instilling Shiv as a way to keep tabs on Gerri. A Roman/Shiv feud is brewing, and Roman better make some time in between threat-induced jacking off to strategize with his new mommy mentor.
And finally, let’s talk about Greg and all of his “necessarily”s. Yes, he gave Kendall the papers, and yes, he’s freaking out. Kendall is offering a lawyer, Gerri is forcing a lawyer, but I think Greg is making a smart move by getting his own representation. Does Uncle Ewan now become another master for Greg, though, by paying for Roger Pugh (Riegert)? And when the pair blandly, baldly says that they plan to use Greg to “expose the structural contradictions of capitalism as reified in the architecture of corporate America,” and that he’s going to be a “little wedge,” what exactly does that mean? Does Ewan want to make a play for bringing down the company and Logan, too? He didn’t like “self-regarding popinjay” Kendall’s methods (“histrionic and meretricious”), but maybe that’s because he has his own sly plan in mind. Kendall’s “Do you think human beings matter?” sounds like something Ewan would say, and maybe they have more in common than we might think.
Stray observations
- My apologies for using the term “slash fic” last week when referring to Gerri and Roman. I thought the term implied all sexual character pairings, not just queer ones, and I’m sorry for my misunderstanding of that. Thanks to those who reached out to correct me.
- Logan being programmed in Shiv’s phone as Saddam Hussein makes a lot of sense.
- Also: Logan needs to come up with a new praiseful descriptor past “No. 1 Boy.” First it was Kendall, then it was Connor. Roman won’t eventually fall for this, will he?
- Related to Roman: I know the show wants us to be upset at Logan and Roman pantomiming Logan hitting Roman on that tarmac, like Logan’s previous (recurring?) physical abuse is a joke that they both choose to laugh at, and congratulations, Succession, you did make me upset!
- “She’s a whore, and it’s not my problem if she wouldn’t finish him.” Where is Hiam Abbass’s Emmy already?
- I said this on Twitter and I will say it again here: Marcia’s little caress of Logan’s suit lapel was the hottest moment I’ve seen on TV in a while; yes, I am counting all of Scenes From A Marriage.
- Of all the familial relationships, I find Kendall/Roman most fascinating: Kendall jumped to Roman’s defense when Logan backhanded him some episodes ago, but Roman is the one urging Logan to go after Kendall and smear his personal life, but Roman is also the guy bringing Kendall a thoughtful gift from the Roy family’s globe hopping after Kendall’s press conference. There is so much awfulness and affection tied up in the three of them.
- Kendall’s dig to Shiv about her being seen as a “token woman wonk woke snowflake” was simultaneously hilarious and hurtful, but if Shiv really thinks Logan will let her be anything but a “mascot,” well … (Although, I never need to hear Kendall say the word “teats” again.)
- I saw this question come up after the premiere, and I think this second episode makes it worth asking again: Where are Kendall’s children? Clearly them not being around is a purposeful choice, as was Kendall struggling to remember Sophie’s name but then being overly protective of her stuff. But I can’t figure out how Kendall’s children not being around, and Rava having those men’s razors in her apartment, might be connected. A guy Rava is seeing who would be trusted enough to have the kids sleep over doesn’t quite track.
- Would I watch a spin-off show with Gerri’s and Marcia’s daughters? Yes, I would.
- “Information is going to be more precious than water”? Has my man Kendall read or watched Dune?
- Look, I know Connor was ragging on non-private-jet travel with “They had movies and a selection of heavily refrigerated cheeses, so you know, it was really nice,” but that truly sounds like a delightful time!
- I enjoyed both of Kieran Culkin’s Roy sibling impressions, but I think his fast-talking Kendall was a little more on-the-nose than his version of Shiv’s “fucky eyes.”
- The Trojan horse Stewy delivers to Rava’s apartment: chef’s kiss.
224 Comments
I get the feeling that Kendall is not going to make it to the end of the series.
I do too. I get the feeling that last season’s car accident was just a prelude.
They’re gonna kill someone at some point before the end. It’s between Logan and Kendall for me, and I think whoever it is will bite it well before the finale. And probably for some random reason.
I’ll say now: I don’t think Siobh is going to die (unless the actor wants out). And I’m… reeeelatively confident on Roman? Literally any of the other characters, however, feels like fair game at some point.Oh, not Greg. They won’t kill Greg. Ewan, definately. Logan, Tom, Kendall, maybe Connor, definitely Willa, Gerri, Frank, Carl, Katerina, Jess, Rava…
this doesn’t feel like the kind of show where a character is killed off to raise stakes. ewan might die because he’s an old man and that’ll change family dynamics; logan might die because he’s also an old man and it’d be a fitting end to the series. everyone else….kendall, sure, also could die at the end of the series, but why would they kill off characters like connor or tom or willa? how would that serve the story?
I totally Greg’s story ending with something terrible happening to him or him actively doing something terrible and going full dark side. He’s in that innocent but not kinda position where it feels like he’ll be collateral to something or we’ll see him fully break bad
I think they’re setting Kendall up as the more tragic figure, so his death makes more sense to me. He’s as horrible a person as the rest of them, but his tragedy is that he actually tries to do the right thing on some occasions (albeit for questionable reasons), only to be constantly thwarted by his own bad impulses. He knows on some level that he’s not cut out for this (his heartbreaking, “It’s not gonna be me” in season 2 was one of Strong’s best moments), but he cannot stop himself or break free of his family. He doesn’t know what he should want to be, other than successful, and at this point he has no idea what success (or succession) would look like. But he keeps trying, like Charlie Brown while Lucy holds the football. Although it would be interesting to see the machinations that happen as people scramble to fill the power vacuum left by Logan’s death.
the writers better do SOMETHING besides this “Who Is Logan Going to Pick” scenario. I’m tired of it.
I think the writers will. At this point, it is increasingly uncertain whether the Roys can keep the company at all. They are all marching around trying to figure out the heir apparent, all the while not realizing that their grip on the company is tenuous at best. I thought that particular plot line was weak in season 2, but if it can be sharpened up for season 3, I can see it being compelling. I would love to see them all scheme against each other so much that they get the rug pulled out from under them with a takeover.
I don’t buy that they’re going to kill anyone, at least not in an unnatural death. There wouldn’t really be a reason to kill anyone off aside from the generic “in real life, death can come unexpectedly”.
I think prison might be more likely for Kendall. I see the kids surviving but who knows. Logan will in all likelihood die or be made so unfit he may as well be gone (I mean, the show is named after the event his death will trigger) but I don’t think it’s a given any of the kids will.
I think so too. Logan is going to bury Ken with the vehicular manslaughter incident. Marcia: You do have things you could say to stop him.Logan: You drop some bombs, you get burnt too, you know?This is Logan saying that the reason he’s wary of using it as a weapon is because he helped cover it up. But if Logan’s goose is cooked anyway, I think he just takes down Kendall with him.
Staging the kid’s hashing out the plan in a child’s room was brilliant.
Armstrong worked on In The Loop, which did the same thing, no?
Yep. It was more subtle here.
My main reaction after watching this outstanding episode: Man, these poor, all too human, bastards—trapped in this terrible world. I feel for all of them, including Logan. What Armstrong and his writers do so masterfully is make people who do awful things feel so empathetic; make a family living in a very unconventional way feel like a family. I think Karl Marx would have loved this show. So would have Groucho. The comedy and tragedy are written and performed so well. I hope most people watching do feel the humanity and tragedy of these people.I thought Kendall here was sincere in his own mind about being a good person and wanting to change the company for the better. Even it’s tied in with his own psychological and emotional self and trauma and addictions. Jeremy Strong, a marvelous actor, has an excellent face for innocence and vulnerability which the show has utilized for great effect.Surprisingly, since I don’t often think about him, I was with Connor’s behavior tonight. He hugged his black balled brother, was honest about his family’s transgressions, acted the most mature as befitting the eldest sibling. Except he then caved like all the rest but his stated reason wasn’t fear like theirs was, but that it might kill their dad, which it could have (or maybe Roman said that). I hope Conner this season becomes more multidimensional rather than the comic relief Roy he’s previously been in his story.I also think Shiv was telling the truth when she said she didn’t know about the crimes. As she said, she was 15, and it’s very easy, and very human, to go along in your protected bubble world especially if you were raised in it and it was one of massive wealth. Again, the show is excellent in finding the human in these supposed villains and dramatizing it for max emotional impact.Greg’s complete and utter confusion about what to do was very relatable. We’d all be acting like him in his terryfing situation.
They may be human, and I do have sympathy for the abuse that Logan has no doubt put his children through over the years, but they are all terrible, rotten people. Even Ewan has an agenda.Kendall is a spoiled jerk who likes to spout off all this corporate gobbledygook nonsense. He ostensibly wants to “detoxify” Waystar Royco, but is really only concerned with being in power, and reveals his true nature as soon as his siblings back out (his diss of Shiv was particularly nasty and misogynistic, which is ironic given his “desire” to do right by the cruise line dancers).Connor may be the least ruthless of the siblings, but is still a git. The way he ragged on having to fly “scheduled” (nevertheless, still in first class), made me want to reach through the screen, grab him by the collar, and heave him onto the next Greyhound bus. He is absolutely insufferable at times.Greg is also kind of a moron, imho. Had he stayed away from Waystar Royco, he wouldn’t be in such hot water, and he’d still be in his grandfather’s ($250 million) will, but he is also greedy and power-hungry in his own way. However, he’s also absolutely hysterical – I love how he kept saying he wasn’t “necessarily” involved in the leak when he was talking to Tom. Some TV journalist described Tom and Greg as the Rosenkranz and Guildenstern of “Succession”, which I think is an extremely apt comparison.Finally, I think you are probably correct about Shiv, but let’s not forget that she persuaded a whistleblower to keep quiet last season. She’s certainly no saint.In short, none of these people is redeemable, imho.
I read that they grew up in this unforgiving cauldron of wealth and vulture capitalism so their humanity was warped from the beginning. Logan himself gre up poor, wanted to succeed like everybody else is told to, and became the tyrant he is because of his environment too. I’m not completely dismissing their moral agency but saying the world they live in is the true villain here.I don’t read Kendall as harshly as you do. He doesn’t want power but a purpose to his lost, sad life. His “corporate speak” is both ridiculous and sad, as he doesn’t know how else to really communicate so he tries what he thinks a successful businessman would say. Again, this harsh world of capitalism has warped his humanity. Kendall blew up at his siblimgs not because that is his nature but because he was genuunely hurt and rejected as a person and brother. In this world, it would be impossible to keep the cutthroat business gameplay and the familial relationships and love separate without destroying one or the other or both. But that’s what the Roys are forced to do, and, like anybody else, they’re terrible at it.
Kendall blew up at his siblimgs not because that is his nature but because he was genuunely hurt and rejected as a person and brother.Those aren’t mutually exclusive. He could have accepted that they’re their own people and that their interests aren’t completely aligned with his; instead he lashed out in the most personal/juvenile way possible.
People say things when they’re angry that they don’t mean. He also shouted at Jess. Which he probably didn’t mean to do either.
I think sometimes that the flip side of the American Dream – that Americans are all just ‘temporarily embarrassed millionaires’, that they can all rise to the top one day – is a sort of calvinistic need to condemn those who are actually at the top: Americans reassure themselves that if they were in that position, they’d be different. That rich people act badly because they just happen to be arseholes, not because of… well, because of the structural contradictions of capitalism as reified in the corporate structure of America. I think over here there’s maybe more sympathy for structural critiques (and less need for clarity on who’s “a bad guy” or “a good guy”), and hence for shows like ‘The Wire’ and ‘Succession’…
Good point. Their religuous faith combined with a long history and culture of individualism that makes many of them think they could resist the immorality brought on by mass wealth and systemic cutthroat capitalism. (I should say I’m not American but have lived in the US most of my life.)
Good points: also, I think that viewers delude themselves into thinking they’d be more like Connor or Ewan, content to live off a fraction of the funds from the Roy empire, and not even bother with any of this jockeying for power and control. However I think the show makes it very clear that for nearly all characters, in their various Logan Roy orbits, the allure of power mixed with fatherly approval become the all-consuming motivations, with comfort and outrageous wealth taken as mere givens.
Sure, their upbringing had a hand in warping their humanity. They are still terrible people (exhibit A: the scene very early in the series where Roman dangles a million bucks in front of a working-class kid if he can hit a home-run). And it’s not like other folks who have had traumatic childhoods haven’t gone on to become decent grownups.
his diss of Shiv was particularly nasty and misogynistic, which is ironic given his “desire” to do right by the cruise line dancers). The dancers didn’t insult him or pose a threat. That was just sibling warfare, all bets are off. And what about what she said to Roman? I have no idea why Shiv wants anything to do with this mess. She had a position with a powerful US Senator and she gave it up to be batted around and toyed with like she’s a mouse to Logan’s cat.
Shiv ultimately wants her father’s stamp of approval. She tried the whole rebellious route of being super-liberal and even working for the Senator who wants to bring him down, and she couldn’t stick with it because he promised her the top job, and she immediately jumped for it. Why? Because she thinks she’s better than everyone, and because it proves to her that her FATHER thinks she is indeed, the best of the Roy children. The only times she gets to show anything close to emotion is when she’s alone with her father, because he’s the only thing she cares about other than herself.
This is the fundamental question/problem that I have with Shiv so far. The show has given us a good understanding of how and why Kendall and Roman act like they do. Their characters seem fully formed, so that their decisions seem grounded in that sense of self. Shiv, on the other hand, is more of a cipher. Or she’s more inconsistent. Basically, I think her character development has been the shakiest. In some ways that makes her really intriguing, because we don’t have a good sense of why she acts like she does, but it also makes her character frustrating because it feels like there is a fundamental emptiness to Shiv as a character. I feel like Snook’s brilliant acting often covers for a lack of substance with the writing of that character.
They are all terrible. And in the way of siblings, they all know how to cut to the bone and hit where it hurts. I still think Kendall’s statement is also misogynistic and revealing.As to Shiv, because she, too, is power hungry and desperate for Logan’s approval/anointing her as his real heir. Although I am with you – I wouldn’t want to touch that mess with a ten-foot pole
And that’s okay if they aren’t redeemable. Still the best show on TV and like Mad Men it’s nice to have a show full of people with huge grey areas.
Sure. The show is superb, and also like watching a train wreck in slow motion. You can’t look away. Although I enjoy watching for sure, on a certain level I also find the behavior of all of these people morally repugnant to one degree or another.
you’re right, they’re all terrible. Did you laugh like me when Greg hopped out of the Uber, saying, “Five stars!”
Poor, poor Greg the Egg, he doesn’t know it but he’s going from a possible civlilan causality to a targeted adversary
He could drop out and start the band Rotten Cabal with Roman, though.
It really is a good band name
Fun fact: the C.A.B.A.L., who popularised the word and gave it its current meaning, were real people – Clifford, Arlington, Buckingham, Ashley and Lauderdale – who ruled England under Charles II. It didn’t end well.That’s surely an unintentional reference, but Logan’s twice now made an intentional reference to the same period, in calling Roman “Tumbledown”. Richard Cromwell was the heir of Oliver Cromwell as Lord Protector (i.e. king), but lacked his father’s willpower and intellect, and presided over the rapid collapse of the protectorate within months – hence being known to the public as ‘Tumbledown Dick’. Wikipedia quotes a French prince comparing the two in a way that seems apposite for Logan and Roman:“Well, that Oliver, tho’ he was a traitor and a villain, was a brave man,
had great parts, great courage, and was worthy to command; but that
Richard, that coxcomb and poltroon, was surely the basest fellow alive; what is become of that fool?”
I too have issues focusing with donuts around, insidious or otherwise.
Connor: Ooooh, donuts.Shiv: Those donuts mean Dad knows we are all here.Connor: Ooh, that’s bad.Roman: They probably aren’t poisoned.Connor: That’s good.Kendall: Your irrelevant.Connor: ….Kendall: That’s bad.Connor: Can I go now?
I personally think those are Chekhov’s Donuts; that Logan didn’t send them and played along when asked, and that they’ll somehow play a role later in the season.That’s my story, and I’m sticking with it.
I don’t know if they’re important, but I agree that Logan didn’t send them. I’m assuming Tom, but there’s a range of possible suspects.
Tom wouldn’t be that clever. Also I don’t think the show does misdirections like that–I don’t see any reason to think that they’re not from Logan, his way of telling them he’s found them.
From their point of view it makes sense. But we see Logan when the kids are missing, and he’s fretting and wondering where they are – he doesn’t seem in control enough (either of the situation or of his emotions) to be sending them coy little symbolic barbs. And we see Logan when Siobh mentions the doughnuts and Logan seems neither ashamed nor triumphant, but frankly seems like he doesn’t know what she’s talking about but doesn’t want to let on.
I think it’s a hermeneutic error to try to read much into Logan’s reaction to anything–a lot of people saw Logan’s half-smile at the end of the season 2 finale as absolute proof that he and Logan were actually in cahoots.But more fundamentally Succession (at least so far, I guess this could change at some point) doesn’t do swerves like that. If they wanted us to doubt who sent the donuts they would have given us a cue to do so.
This is the correct interpretation, I believe. And ultimately, it’s not that important WHO sent them, but if the intended goal was to sow dissention among the ranks of the Roy children, and send them scattering in the wind, then mission accomplished.
he’s not clever, but that doesn’t preclude him from doing things. i could see him having some half-baked germ of an idea that he can manipulate himself into a stronger position with logan by leveraging the bad communication in the family, and he’s clearly still stewing over his marriage right now. i don’t think it’s implausible that he would send the donuts as the only way he can influence events and fuck with shiv’s head just to feel less impotent.
In the post-episode “Behind the Scenes” vignette, Cox even joked that Logan probably didn’t even know about the donuts. I’m sure the show will just move past it, but Armstrong seemed to indicate it was a symbolic thing, like God seeing into the Garden of Eden and “I know you’re in there being terrible” type of thing. Which I think is great. Just shows the impact that one single gesture has in throwing off the whole family dynamic.
Chekhov’s Donuts I love this.
I think the most interesting choice would be…Gerri? In the most fun twist, Gerri has always been disgusted by the Roy family but focused on doing her job. She backed Roman as a way of getting the most direct possible access to company control (or as a countermeasure when Kendall seemed like the heir apparent), but now that power has fallen into her hands, she’s playing for keeps.
It was weird the way Connor seemed mesmerized by the donuts. By the donuts themselves, or by Logan’s intention of sending them? Or what?
What was with all the pastries? When did Roman have a chance to buy cinnamon buns at the airport? He wouldn’t have gone thru the terminal if he flew private. Donuts are pretty middle class for a guy like Logan. Considering his oldest son thought flying first class, probably on Dubai Air or Virgin Atlantic, etc wasn’t good enough for him. I will say, once you fly first class (I was upgraded for free once on a flight that was practically empty) flying back in that cattle car in the sky section is not remotely appealing.
Logan strikes me as someone who wants to be seen as still working class (despite being a billionaire). Cf. his reflections in Dundee. He’d probably say he’s so up himself that he can’t enjoy some good fucking doughnuts, no matter what Nan Fucking Pierce might think about it…
Until about ten years ago, I was a dedicated cheapest seat air traveler. My dad, as a Christmas gift, bought me first class tickets to go so my brother in Seattle. Since, I have saved and scrimped and done without so that any lengthy flight I take is first class.It’s not about occasionally getting your microwaved rubber airline food on restaurant china. It’s about getting there _relaxed_. More space in the seats, less moving about in the cabin, on and off faster.It’s ridiculously expensive- or it was when last I flew, which was two years ago- but getting somewhere after six hours in the air and not feeling like the very next thing to do involves firebombing or machine gunning was worth it. The thing to do now is somehow make that the experience for all travelers.
Stop cramming people in, provide food better than something you get at a hospital when you’re on a bland diet, and make it something travelers can enjoy instead of dread. Of course all this would mean raising prices, but considering air travel has turned into something akin to a Greyhound Bus, maybe that’s not all bad.
I recall seeing something about how an airline was considering double-deck seating, to really sardine people in. When you start considering that- why not just tranquilize people and load them onto flat boards? Probably get 9 or 12 passengers in the space of three or four now. They would cause no problems on the flight, need very little attention. Hand out diapers and drugs and nighty night. I look at images from the Pan Am Clippers and I think… how _human_ that looks. People with space to relax and fly.But- with fuel costs as they are, airline profit margins are so thin, this is inevitable. Air travel for the masses is going to get worse, while the wealthy long ago switched to charter flights and jet-shares.
I’m sure RyanAir proposed making journey’s seatless, or at least basically just having all travellers squat in a tiny row in order to pack more passengers on.
I was on an airplane once- a small carrier affiliated with a major carrier- where they had people _standing_. This in addition to the seats.
Assume he had one of his sub-lackeys fetch them for him
I’m convinced that danish cinnamon pastries are a nod to Jeremy Strong living in Copenhagen, where “kanelsnurrer” (cinnamon knots) are extremely hyped.
i honestly started prowling the house for pastries after the episode because it made me crave donuts
James Cromwell’s “that’ll do” allusion to Babe was great, if it was intended.
I wonder if he threw it in and they kept it. The actors have said they’re allowed a take where they just wing it a little if they feel like it.
Where are Kendall’s children?
As far away from Kendall as Rava can get them.
And from a practical standpoint, those child actors are basically 4 years older than they were when season 1 filmed in the fall of 2017. In the timeline of the show, only a few months have passed. It’s hard to have the kids be a presence in the show when a few months ago in “show time” they looked like this:And now they look like this:
They could just be recast though, it’s not really a huge deal.
I thought it was a great episode and really liked the semi bottle episode nature of the siblings in Rava’s apartment. The entire episode was well written (no surprise), but the scenes with the kids were really the highlight for me. All four of them really sold the sibling nature of it all, with the standout for me being Shiv’s comment about Roman’s sex stuff (issues?) and his reaction, which she immediately calls an overreaction in an attempt to defend herself. Something about that whole interaction felt so intense and real and reminded me of interactions I’d seen play out in my own family. Also the fact that they were all varying degrees of worried and startled by a box of donuts was hilarious. Loved Roman’s “I’m 98% sure they’re safe to eat”. I feel like the show’s focus in the premiere was having fun with all the energy from Kendall’s manic state, which made him kind of obnoxious but not really a bad guy, while this episode got away it clear that Kendall is still mostly a bad guy. He’s probably right in everything he said about his dad, and that the siblings all definitely knew, or ought to have know, about the shit that went on, but every part of how he dismissed his siblings when they started to waffle reeked of Logan’s ‘if you can’t do it, fuck off!’ attitude. Loved Marcia’s return, everything about Abbass’ performance and delivery is great, but is her not being there at the end meant to signify that terms couldn’t be reached and she won’t be supporting Logan after all? Also, is Shiv the youngest? I don’t remember it ever being confirmed but for some reason I always thought she was the middle and Roman was the youngest, but I guess this episode implies that she is since her reason for not knowing about the stuff that went on to the same degree as her siblings was that she was younger. And the thought of Shiv at 15 being around her dad’s old fucking creepy friends… ugh
Culkin is 39(!) and Snook is 33.
I mean on the one hand, damn good for Culkin because he looks really good; but, on the other, that doesn’t really answer how old the characters are supposed to be.
I’m pretty sure Marcia is still there. Probably just went home in a separate car. The scene where she got up and left the negotiating table showed that she was confident she would get what she wanted, and indeed that seemed to be the case as she was standing with Logan while her lawyer negotiated with Logan’s underling. The implication was that he would give her whatever she wanted short of apologizing for the Rhea situation. And I agree, Marcia is a compelling character and Abbass does a brilliant job portraying her.And yep, Kendall is still a terrible person. Also, Shiv is the youngest of the siblings. I think it just throws people off because Culkin looks like he’s the youngest of the lot.As to the donuts, it’s amazing how something so seemingly innocuous can convey a wealth of information – i.e., how much control Logan has over his children and how terrified they are of him. They were all considering jumping ship and joining Kendall, and all it took was a box of donuts to scare them back into line.
I thought that line was more about the way gender shaped Shiv’s experiences than birth order. Like the awkwardness she felt as a teenaged girl wearing a swimsuit around her fathers’ cronies in general superseded any sense that one employee in particular was especially predatory.And for what it’s worth, Wikipedia confirms that Roman is the youngest, which was my impression, too.
Per the show’s intro, Roman is the youngest, or rather the youngest of the Roy kids is a boy and leaves it up to you to do the math (this may have also been explicitly stated at some point re: Roman being the “baby”, and his behavior/attitude being the most immature). Interesting that as Jonathan Michaels pointed out IRL Culkin is 39 and Snook is 33. Culkin could easily pass for early 30s and Snook could pass for late 30s or even early 40s depending on what she’s wearing.
No it doesn’t, it says he is the youngest son and Shiv is the youngest child.The Succesion wiki also lists Shiv as Roman’s younger sister.Also the HBO website says Shiv is the youngest.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Succession_(TV_series)https://succession.fandom.com/wiki/Succession_Wikihttps://www.hbo.com/succession/cast-and-crew/shiv-roy
gud reeding skillz gold star 4 u
My favourite sibling element: the way that Siobh repeatedly giggled off-camera at Roman’s jokes. That felt very true – and quite revealing of Roman’s character. He’s not just the self-loathing guy who makes jokes to amuse himself – he’s the class clown who found a place in the family by making his older sister laugh. I think he’s one of those guys where his often inappropriate jokes actually make more sense if you consider that he’s making jokes in part for an audience (his sister) who just isn’t there to hear them.[I empathise on this, I guess, because I know that my sister and I make each other laugh more than we make anyone else laugh. I’ve certainly had that “blank stare of person thinking you’re insane” reaction that Roman sometimes gets…]
Oh yeah the way they giggled and made little comments like Shiv’s “unsubscribe” was all part of the very good way the writers captured a true sibling dynamic. Also, Shiv’s completely insincere “sorry” when Roman came back stood out to me because I have also made the same kind of apology, usually because one of my parents told me to but I guess Connor telling her she was too harsh kinda counts as the same thing.
she’s the youngest, and female, which made her uniquely vulnerable to Logan’s abuse in ways not necessarily worse, but different from the boys.
I’m getting increasingly convinced that this show will end with Roystar being absorbed either by Sandy’s company or by some tech giant (maybe the one owned by Alexander Sarsgard’s character).
love seeing all the siblings in one room. everyone was so good but strong and snook in particular are so. good.every time we see them all interact in one room so much is said regarding their dynamics, how they grew up, etc. with the show never needing to have like flashbacks etc. the writing and the acting fills in all those blank spaces where you can just kind of imagine what it was like with them as siblings growing up under logan and how deep deep down there is some love there but it’s mired by a whole bunch of other complicated fucked up stuff. god, i love this show.i do want/need one of the siblings at some point to jump ship to Team Kendall (until it eventually crashes and burns like we prob know it will since Kendall is definitely in for a bad fall ) at some point. i’m rooting for it to be roman since that dynamic is so fascinating to me and the last 2 seasons have given them at least one or two really genuinely sweet moments and i’m going to be sad if we’re deprived of it completely.
Sorry but you think you can just “apologize” for accidentally using “slash fic” to refer to a non-queer character pairing? As if that’s going to undo all the horrific harm you’ve caused with this unbelievably callous, thoughtless act of violence?
After watching this (superb) episode, I realized that every single person on this show is rotten to the core – even Ewan, who seems willing to throw his own grandkid to the wolves to fulfill his agenda of taking his brother down and exposing capitalism. It is all extremely distasteful, but it’s so good that I can’t look away.
So much talk about how unstable Kendall is and yet so little about what a fucking trainwreck Roman is at this point.I’d trust CONNER to run things over either of them at this point.
Roman talking himself out of the big job on the phone with his dad was utterly painful to watch. Just a brilliant performance.
Interesting. I interpreted that differently. I think Roman was using a little reverse psychology to get what he wanted, which was exactly what has transpired: Gerri running things with him “under her”. I think if you offered him a scenario where he could run things long term as part of a power-couple with her, with him eventually taking over at some far future point, he’d sign immediately. I think his challenges now will be 1) does the reality of sharing power with Gerri play out how he imagined in his head? Does she really want to share power with him? 2) how does he translate this into a long term scenario? Because the farce is already almost over — did you see how Logan brushes right past Gerri on the tarmac? I did appreciate that Gerri is clearly smart enough to know what’s up and described herself as an “asterisk” pope.
I think he really wanted the job, called his dad to plead his case, and chickened out halfway though.What’s more, I think he was the top candidate at the time, and seeing his dad get more and more disappointed in his weakness was as human as we’ve seen Logan in a while.
This is probably a really cheesy point, but I think Roman’s desire to be head of the company is a lot like his sexuality. He talks a big game, but folds when the opportunity presents itself. I think he has the killer instinct, and its shown when he gives Logan advice, but he lacks the confidence to rely on his own intuition.I think the power sharing dynamic with Gerri on top is exactly what he wants. And the call he made to her asking whether he should side with Kendall is indicative of that. He’s uncertain of what to do on his own and needs Gerri.
Best show on TV. There’s not an ounce of fat to these episodes.
It’s really reminding me of the final season of The Thick of It – although ironically that’s apparently the only season of it that he wasn’t a writer on…
Best show since The Leftovers.
James Cromwell said “That’ll do.” HOW IS THAT NOT THE BIGGEST TAKEAWAY????!!!!That’ll do, Greg the Egg, that’ll do.
It’s an Easter Gregg.I missed that line–even with closed captions on–but that’s fantastic.
I laughed out loud, and my wife looked at me like I was crazy until I explained it to her.
And truly, what is Cousin Greg if not the Babe the Pig of Succession?
He’s Claudius. At least, we’re meant to think he’s Claudius. My money’s actually on Amir.
yes; the role of The Fool in so many Shakespearean plays.
No way…Greg is clearly the duck.
That was a beautiful moment. I snorted and everyone looked at me like I was nuts and I was like, “BABE?! Really? …Nobody?! That’ll do, pig? NOBODY?!”
I’m quite well-versed in such trivias and references, but even I had to think for a minute to get that since I’m not familiar with the source even though I know the line. I imagine for many it wouldn’t even register.
Babe is excellent.
Right now, I’m the real you.I said “What?” out loud half a second before Shiv did and cackled when she had the same response. Kendall struggling to remember Sophie’s nameI don’t think we’re meant to understand Roman’s quip as a statement of fact. It lands because it gets at a deeper truth: Kendall sees his family, including his ex-wife and children, as little more than props in a story where he’s the hero. (This is also the problem when it comes to his vision of Waystar Royco and his attempts to relate to his siblings.) The fact he uses going to hug his kids as a cover story when trying to shore up his position with Stewy seals the deal.But the pause is about the fact there are 12+ people in the apartment. Keeping the groups in different rooms allows Kendall to convince himself that it’s possible to compartmentalize all of these competing conversations/interests even as the close quarters hammer home the truth that they’re all related and will all converge at some point.
I didn’t take that as struggling to remember her name, but just “what room can we go into where we can talk privately”. My father used to call me by my sister and my mother’s name before he’d get to mine and vice versa. He wasn’t senile, people do that in families. My grandmother was the same.
I considered myself lucky not to be called by the dog’s name…But yes, I thought it was clear that Kendall was thinking about empty rooms, and Roman just pounced on the subtext, as Roman does…
Roman and Shiv really do seem to resent Kendall way more than he resents them. I think he feels compassion for them at times, being the oldest, while they just can not stop sticking the knife in his back.
We know Roman in particular has a lot of Issues with Kendall because of Kendall’s behaviour during their childhood (whether real or imagined). Given that Roman and Siobh seem closest, I suspect Siobh shares some of those issues.
I get the sense that it went:
– Connor stars out as Logan’s Number One Boy. But he’s pampered and apathetical, and lacks killer instinct, so once Kendall comes along, Logan decides that Kendall is the man (probably helps that Kendall’s mother would have been looking out for him, while Connor’s wasn’t around (do we know what happened to her?)). Connor fights for a bit, then gives up, and has spent the rest of his life pretending not to care.
– Kendall starts out competing with Connor for Logan’s affection. But when he wins, he doesn’t stop fighting. He’s Logan’s mini-me, and anything about himself that doesn’t fit this idolisation is shoved deep inside and not allowed to show (until it comes out in his breakdown/drug addiction, then is repressed for another few years until the events of the show).
– Siobhan is a girl, and Logan adores her (in his way). Kendall is spurred to compete even harder. Siobh is shunted on a slightly different track, kept a little more insulated (she probably really doesn’t learn about the bad stuff), which both protects her (leaving her less messed-up than her brothers) but also makes her jealous. She develops a sense of herself as an outsider, sardonically watching and criticising the boys while secretly wishing she was included more. She takes Logan’s affection for granted – she isn’t spurred to directly compete for it (she’s the only one who feels comfortable finding a career outside the family firm), but she does get jealous when she thinks it’s in danger (she’s the one with the most hostility to Marcia, who she probably sees as a feminine threat to her place in Logan’s affections).
– Romulus arrives last (or is ‘Roman’ his real name? I always assumed it was Romulus, but apparently there’s disagreement among fans; in any case, not how more grandiloquent, and less Celtic, the name is – by this time Logan is securely placed at the top of the world). Logan overlooks him and thinks he’s weak and superfluous. Kendall bullies him mercilessly, both imitating Logan and attempting to impress him. Roman finds security by making people laugh; Siobh, who doesn’t have a stake in the boy’s game, is the only one who really connects to him non-strategically. Later, Roman is sent away; Siobh feels bad about this, but Kendall convinces himself that everything is fine. Ironically, because Roman has had to struggle through more adversity, Logan actually probably respects him the most (though he despairs at his complete lack of common sense).
When I was a teenager, on more than one occasion, my mom started to scold and yell at me, but called me the cat’s name instead. Short circuits the whole argument. It’s hard to dress someone down with a straight face when you’ve just called them Brownie.
Heck of a job, Brownie! (the cat)
I routinely combine my 2 kids name into one name. It is a whole “thing” now in our fam. Wife did last night by accident and we all chuckled.Hell even one of my sons friends did it a few weeks ago, purely by accident.In summary, it happens!
“meretricious”
I am so using that in a sentence today, like, “Hey, I don’t know what “meretricious” means.”
In the manner of a meretrix, or prostitute. More specifically, it usually means seducing a target with the display of sincerity and attractive qualities (in this case pretended moral virtue, other times love or arousal or a common interest, etc), while concealing an inner venal motivation. Ewan’s saying that Kendall is dressed up like a saint, or an avenging reformer, to get the public and share-buyers and the FBI to jump into bed with him, when really he just wants their money (and/or power to kill his father).At school, I had an English teacher who confused ‘meretricious’ with ‘meritorious’, which was a constant source of amusement…
Shiv is getting knocked around like a piñata. First, Logan tricks her into dumping Gil by promising her top spot. Then she compromises that by blurting it out in front of the fucking enemy.Then she gets absolutely played by Rhea into touting herself for a job she has no chance of getting, just to weaken her position with her father.Then she gets passed over for Geri (why would she even want the job right now?) and completely blows it with her lawyer friend, leading her to Kendall.Then Kendall gets in some absolute body-blows that Shiv and a big chunk of the audience absolutely needed to hear (it all falls apart for Kendall this episode and rightly so, but he wasn’t wrong) which sends her back to daddy with her tail between her legs, but she still has that smug smile like she’s played everyone.Her biggest success so far is leaning on a witness in order to protect her Dad and his company from the massive amount of charges that should be coming his way, which….yay Shiv. Also makes her “I didn’t know” a little hollow, even if it was true prior to the news story breaking, when she’s been so complicit in covering it up.
On the other hand, Connor had a good episode by displaying some basic human decency. He was the only one to hug Kendall, he defended Roman from Shiv’s nastier barbs and, for what it’s worth, he was the only one to admit he knew about some of the cruises stuff (no doubt still slightly shook from having to deliver Mo Lester’s Eulogy).The last few episodes (across the two seasons) have hit the “Connor is basically irrelevant” thing pretty hard, often to his face. “First Pancake”, “Operation Thumb-Twiddle”, Kendall telling him he’s not needed and Logan bribing him to quit his bid for the Presidency – I do wonder if it’s building up to Connor doing something actually significant.
Connor had a good streak of intelligence and empathy, right up to the donuts, in this episode. Also I love that these children ran home to daddy right after they concluded he probably wouldnt poison the grandkids.Donuts aside I wonder if Connors irrelevance havent taught him a couple of things, that the other Roy kids dont know
I’ve always thought Connor was the most level-headed and aware… when it comes to his family. His problem is that he’s been so completely secluded from wider society that his views on it are hopelessly simplistic, which is why people assume he’s an idiot. But I think he’s consistently the one who has the best understanding of Logan, and of his siblings. And he’s also probably genuinely the nicest of them, when he can see beyond his colossal narcissism. He’s also the only one of the four who really knows what he wants from life, mostly – sure, there’s the President thing, and he’s like responsibilities from dad, but fundamentally he’d be relatively happy on his ranch, with his wine, with Willa, in a way that’s not true of the others.
I think one of the geat things about the show is that all the main characters are right – or at least, they all have real virtues. But they also have flaws, or areas of ignorance. Connor has the most wisdom, but doesn’t understand the world, and isn’t the quickest. Roman is brilliant at reading people and situations tactically, but again, he underestimates everyone outside his circle and overestimate what their family can do; he also lacks impulse control, which leads him to sometimes miss the wood for the trees. Kendall’s the most practical of the four, the most complete, but he has crippling mental health problems (at the very least addiction and an obsessive need to impress his father) and a colossal ego. Siobh has the best killer instincts, but lacks empathy, and is the most afraid of opening herself up to anybody. Logan, of course, is more sincere than any of them, and often seems the most genuinely in touch with the world and other human beings (he created the bubble rather than being born into it), but his life has been dominated by insecurity and this obsessive determination that, as he puts it this week, he “can’t eat shit”.
I loved that Logan’s “I can’t eat shit” to Marcia was him basically saying, “Everything you said was true, and I’m sorry that it hurt you, but I can’t actually say any of that out loud because that’s just who I am,” and she actually accepted that. I really love their relationship and their dynamic, and I hope she stays in the fold moving forward.
I loved Marcia calling Rhea a whore… and then having her agent make precise financial demands in return for not divorcing (and presumably having sex with) Logan.
Variations on that scene have probably played out COUNTLESS times in real life with who knows how many philandering wealthy husbands desperate to keep their marriage (and public image) intact.
Agree on your interpretation of Connor: his character reminds me of Little Carmine: always assumed to be an idiot, but smart enough to stay away from the dangers of going for the “big seat” to enjoy his life away from “the life.”
Connor knows that the Roy family is on the precipice of an enormous crossroads
good analysis!
When Connor shows some of his true colors, like when he sniped back at Logan in Season 1, “Can I wait while you finish a few calls? Yeah, Pa. I’ve had a bit of practice. Quite a bit, actually,” you can tell he’s been through some shit as the eldest son of Logan. He always tries to play peacemaker and seems to genuinely care about his siblings. He knew that Roman really liked the Dog Cage/dog food game, but he also saw that Kendall really enjoyed how it humiliated Roman, too. And being the eldest, he likely knew the most about how horrible his father and his father’s friends were, which he and Kendall both alluded to last night about them laughing in the study.
It was pretty hilarious though re: Connor’s reasoning for not joining the alliance to take down Logan was because “I am a public figure” and it wouldn’t look good. Because no one cares.
Also possibly a signal that he’s not done applying for the job of President of the United States?
I don’t know what it says that the idea of Connor running for – and winning- elected office no longer seems that far fetched to me. Nothing good, I presume.
Connor has absolutely zero understanding of the world outside the family. He’s not so much a narcissist as just someone who genuinely hasn’t learnt that nobody cares about him (because nobody tells him, other than his family (which he dismisses as jokes and/or bitterness), and he lives on a ranch in the middle of nowhere drinking wine…)
Remember, though, he’s also trying to privatise drinking water, which will kill thousands of Americans in the long run. He’s the devil too, just a bit sweeter.
Oh absolutely, I don’t mean to imply that Connor is in any way a good guy, I just mean that he was the only one capable of not acting like a complete prick in the moment, and showed some actual warmth and compassion to his blood relatives.
Shiv is Cersei Lannister, not as smart as she thinks she is. Shiv is just as coddled, damaged, entitled, reckless, volatile, and grasping as anyone else on the show. She is not a good person, as Kendall told her, she just thinks she is.
I love the moments where Shiv has to face what a horrible person she is–her talk with Tom on the beach last season. She tries to brush it off but can’t (and kudos to Sarah Snook, who nails this). Deep down I think Kendall and Roman acknowledge that they’re horrible people but Shiv won’t.
Roman’s call to Logan in Episode 1 of this season was him instantly recognizing that he is not fit for the top job yet. He said it, and as soon as he said he wanted it, he regretted it and started to talk himself out of the position. Shiv would never. Shiv is so much more full of herself and self-assured, even without any experience, she still feels she’s the logical and best choice to run the company, which speaks to her lack of self-awareness and her inflated ego. Kendall knows he’s awful and knows he has caused the death of another person (even though he’s on a manic high that has enabled him to laugh it off for the time being) and Roman very much seems to hate himself and think he’s worthless, so I think you’re right, she still clings to the belief that Shiv is a good person.
I think the boys have had Logan implicitly (or explicitly) telling them they are and should be bad people their whole lives, whereas Siobh has had him telling her that she’s wonderful…
Tom really threw her for a loop with the “thank you”. Oh, so now Sad Sack Tom isn’t looking so bad is he Shivvy?
Kendall is a delusional egomaniac, but he was pretty much dead-on when he said “I’m the real you.” He is now acting in the manner that Shiv always saw herself as — idealistic, with integrity — even though he’s doing it for his own self-serving ego-driven purposes. And she knew he was right and it stung deep. Great scene for Strong and Snook.
The smug smile does display itself on Shiv’s face often, but I had to replay ending several times to catch some missed dialogue between her and Pops in the limo. Multiple sad facial micro expressions played across Shiv’s face; she knows she’s the one being played.
Shiv didn’t drive Lisa to Kendall, Kendall had gotten to her first. Notice how Lisa started saying straight away that Shiv can’t talk to her about legal stuff and can’t represent her? That was to prevent Shiv from compromising her so she couldn’t represent an opposing client -ie Kendall. Logan mentioned earlier in the episode that they should try to conflict out anyone who would represent them. That was what Shiv was trying yo do, but Lisa was already expecting it (because she already had a meeting with Kendall lined up) and shut that shit down.
Following on from my question last week about how much evidence Greg managed to save from Tom, Kendall’s evasiveness to Shiv makes me believe that it is *much* less substantial than his press conference led us to believe. He also seemed spooked when his lawyer said it would be great for them if Logan were to fight it.I rewatched the episode where Greg grabs up some papers and I had remembered it slightly wrong – he didn’t pull them from the fire, but from the not-burning pile when Tom went inside to get some lighter fluid. That said, he still only grabbed up about two pages. I think Kendall has only a handful of dates and names and is bluffing huge.
I think it makes sense that Kendall certainly has less ammunition than he claims, but I also think that the absolute first thing Lisa did when Kendall retained her services was to take a look at the documents to see what she has to work with. If it’s not going to cut it, I imagine we’ll find out pretty damn quickly.
I agree that Roman and Kendall are the most fascinating pairing. Rewatching Season 1, I was struck by the moment at Tom’s bachelor party when Kendall shoves Roman after remembering his Dad sending Roman away because he was seen as the weakest. I think the two have some shared trauma that has created their bond, but I also think they’ve probably spent their entire life in competition and could never have a functional relationship.I’m really liking how the writers keep it right down the middle on Kendall making his case. On the one hand. you can see how he and his siblings teaming up against Logan could be the only way to take him down and let them take over, but you can also see how someone who launched a failed coup, gave up on his forced takeover for “unknown reasons”, and spent much of Season 2 acting as his Dad’s mercenary would be completely untrustworthy.
I’m fascinated by all the sibling dynamics and the show is so good at establishing the different dynamics of each sibling pairing but I really do have such a soft spot for Roman/Kendall. I think out of all the siblings, Kendall and Roman, have had moments in each season where you can tell there’s genuine concern and love there. Roman picking Kendall up during Argestes in Season 1, Kendall coming out of his season long stupor once Logan hit Roman in Season 2, Roman being the only one who was genuinely concerned about Kendall in the S2 finale when they found out he was going to be the sacrifice and them sharing that brief look at the table. Obviously part of the joy of this show is that all these people are terrible who always get in their own way and also can’t really escape the cycle of abuse they’ve grown up in but sometimes when we see genuine human moments between the siblings you see a glimpse of might could have been and I won’t lie, it genuinely makes me sad.
“Character Actor Peter Riegert of Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt, One Tree Hill, Damages, and The Sopranos”He may have an impressive resume over the past 20 years, but I immediately see him only as Boone from Animal House.
That’s always my first thought of him.
Yea this was a pretty funny recap of his career. “Jaleel White of CSI: Crime Scene Investigation, DuckTales, and Teen Titans”“Mark Linn-Baker of the Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt, The Leftovers, and Succession”“Jerry Seinfeld of Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee, Benson, and Bee Movie Game”etc
“Teats” may be my least favorite word in the English language, and I don’t buy hearing it from someone of Kendall’s age. Saying she’s only getting considered for the job because of her tits would have sounded even more biting, and more in character.
Lol, so you like “tits” but not “teats.” Men hate being reminded that breasts serve an actual function besides their own sexual gratification.
No, ‘teats’ is funnier and more in character, because Kendall is funny
Agreed. Kendall’s dialogue is always designed to sound slightly off.
A N he playin’
T to the E A T, all that matters is Shiv’s TEATS
And particularly this season, Kendall has been noticeably dropping SAT words into his speech (“cowardice or avarice”), as if trying to project his heroic vision of himself on an intellectual level. Using “teats” in an insult is what a snobby teenager does when they’re trying to land a vulgar jab but still sound smart.
I thought he was imitating his father when he said that.
I’d suggest Kendall a) didn’t want to sexualize his sister and b) being a 2020s corporate guy he is hyperaware that merely saying “tits” out loud could ruin him if the wrong person heard. He reached for the most intelligent-sounding replacement word he could come up with and of course it’s both awkward and hilarious.Overthinking? Maybe, but every line in this show is deliberate so I’m sure there’s some reasoning along these lines going on.
I think it was just another allusion to Babe the pig, to top off Cromwell’s “That’ll do.”
nah the teats was so much more cruel and memorable.
“My apologies for using the term “slash fic” last week when referring to Gerri and Roman. I thought the term implied all sexual character pairings, not just queer ones”…..doesn’t it? I’ve heard it used to refer to all sexual character pairings for over a decade. This is the first I’ve ever heard about it being queer-only.
I wonder if ‘shipping’ has replaced it as a term for het pairings…but yeah I remember people writing Mulder/Scully slash fiction online in the 90s
I’ve seen het parings written as man/woman many times but in my fandom years I’ve always heard the term slash used specifically to refer to same-sex pairings (often m/m specifically with femslash being f/f). Had no idea people used it about het pairings.
I believe it started in the queer community and a lot of it is same sex, but there is a lot of straight slash fiction.
I always thought it started with str8 women who wrote about fantasy gay pairings of fictional str8 Characters… exp. Spock and Kirk.
The pairings were gay, so I assumed they were created by LGBT people. Further, I have been told that slash fiction is queer as well. I just see a fair amount of str8 slash fiction, so I assume it evolved.
This is exactly where it started; there are many academic studies. Slash = same sex. Spock and Kirk were the first, and from there it spread via fanzines in particular communities, long before the internet.
I’ve heard it used for all gender pairings for over twenty years. It doesn’t surprise me that people complained – some gay people on the internet (understandably) get very riled at the perception that “their” things are being co-opted by straight people, and of course possessive gatekeeping is popular with all demographics – but it’s certainly not historically a queer-only thing (after all, specifically gay slash is yaoi). Maybe it’s become that? I don’t know.
I like how the show’s making it steadily clear that Ewan is also kind of a hypocrite, too.
It’s been very subtle about this, but absolutely. Ewan loves the lifestyle his brother’s wealth affords him. He may hate himself for it because it violates some personal principles, and yet he’ll still show up at every Roy gala…
Ewan has a plan, and while the attorney was talking I’m thinking he’s going to throw Greg under the bus in the effort to take down Waystar/Royco.
That lawyer who showed up at Greg’s door was a bit of a douchebag. “Keep up Greg”. Fuck you. And Gerri sending him over to trick Greg into spilling beans on Kendall.
Was that guy even a lawyer? Was he even sent by Gerri?Meanwhile, pet theory: Tom sent the doughnuts, not Logan.
Good point! It did seem a little odd. And that horse Stewie sent Kendall. JFC is this all these people have to do? Mind games? The donuts seemed a little weird too. How does the Logan faction & the siblings know where Kendall is? Did he tell Shiv to come to Rava’s apartment?
He may have done – he was actively courting Siobh, whereas the others turning up was an unexpected bonus. But also, they could probably work it out. They know he’s not at his house, or at the office; he wouldn’t trust being in a hotel, I don’t think (too visible), and he wouldn’t dare go to Stewy or the like (shows his hand/allegiance). And it’s not like he has any real friends. So if you’re looking for him, Rava’s place has got to be high on the list…
I’m trying to unpack the reason for sending a trojan horse–just a reminder that Stewy and Sandi are already inside the company? Or a warning that someone else has been smuggled in?
Stewy was probably bored and on coke and thought it was a funny way to fuck with Kendall and say hello. The fact that Shiv arrived right after it was SYMBOLISM
Agree re the symbolism
Well Stewy also said he really wanted to send a horse head, but the paperwork….
Didn’t Roman say something like “thanks for the donuts” when they met with Logan at the end? I was expecting a twist and for Logan to say ‘what donuts, I dont know what you are talking about’
I can’t imagine Logan ever admitting that he doesn’t know what someone’s talking about.
logan did not send those donuts. shiv said “thanks for the donuts” at the end, and he gave a brief “huh?” before she changed the subject. he doesn’t know about them, and you’re probably right that tom sent them. why he would do that, i bet not even he knows — just some sort of half-thought-out power play to try to manipulate them
I agree, that fucking lawyer acted like there was a memo to treat Greg like shit from the get-go. I’m glad he bagged him…although I think the lawyer his grandfather is paying for will be going on about a bigger agenda than Greg’s welfare.
Agree. They’re using Greg. How can someone who is so aware of what’s going on that he kept copies of those docs to protect himself, be so utterly clueless.He should have stuck with Kendall, at least for now. Having Lisa be your attorney is better than the old hippie Ewan hired. Why would you want an estate planning attorney to defend you in a federal investigation involving corporate cover up of rape and murder?
I think that Greg at some level inherently trusts his grandfather more than the other Roys, at least at this point, so he’s willing to go with Ewan’s plan, for now.
I think Greg has now realised that Pugh is a bad bet and that they’re using him – his expression in that conversation very much read like “oh fuck, this isn’t good, but how can I get out of this without alienating my grandfather?”Greg’s modus operandi is to stay on everyone’s good side (or at least, not their bad side), and particularly if the main family is going to war he doesn’t want to piss Ewan off too much. But I do think we’ll see him trying to worm his way out of this new arrangment pretty quickly.And at this point it’s not even about getting a good lawyer. It’s about a) getting a lawyer he can trust not to be feeding him a line from whichever side of the Roy war, and b) Greg has probably realised that accepting a lawyer from either side of the war will be seen – by the family, and possibly by the legal authorities – as him picking a side. He doesn’t want to pick Kendall’s side because he’s not sure he’ll win – or at least not in a way that leave Kendall and Greg standing. But he also doesn’t want to pick Logan’s side because Logan’s staring down an FBI investigation, and lying to the FBI is a crime. So he’s buggered either way. But if he can tell both sides “my grandfather has insisted on hiring a lawyer for me”, he may be able to escape. In that context, the fact that it’s not a high-flying intimidating big law lawyer is a bonus – it looks less like “I’m lawyering up to betray both sides” and more like “yeah, my grandfather insisted I bring the old family lawyer on board, just to make sure everything’s legit, I don’t really understand this stuff, nothing to see here”. So Greg’s instincts were good!Unfortunately, he underestimated Ewan’s willingness to use Greg as a pawn, so now he has three sides of a war to worry about, not just two…
As far as Kendall knows, Greg is still with him. Greg is just exploring his options. I think he’s already starting to realize his Grandpa’s lawyer is a quack and their ultimate goal is just destroying Waystar their own way, and that doesn’t necessarily benefit Greg.
The words he used to describe Kendall could easily be turned back on himself. I wonder if the writers were deliberately inviting that reading.
I think it’s been abundantly clear since Ewan first came around in season 1 that he is a massive hypocrite. He thinks ATN is evil, yet he has a seat on the board of its parent company and lives on the spoils of it. He lies to himself that he is better than Logan and the rest of the family but he is compromised like the rest of them.
As intense and claustrophobic as this episode got, discussing a corporate overthrow involving so much wealth and manipulation set in the daughter’s room with LED lights strung for decoration and young girl aesthetics everywhere was such an inspired set choice—most especially highlighting Shiv’s lack of experience and sense of entitlement so oversized laying in a full size bedAfter seeing these characters always surrounded by gleaming boardrooms, exquisite interiors, luxury transportation to see them all in a kid’s room, no differently when they were young kids, now trying to play grown up but in the end, still afraid of Daddy.That was just all kinds of perfect
The set designers on this show are brilliant. I was talking about Rava’s apartment with my sister. Come for the fucked up family, stay for the interior decorating porn. The details in the daughter’s room, my God, stuff that probably wouldn’t even end up on camera.
The image of Kendall sitting ramrod straight on his daughter’s poofy, upholstered stool was perfect. He looked so horribly out of context, like he was trying to pitch in a boardroom.
But this did cuase me to wonder where are the kids? Kendall lies to his siblings that he’s going to kiss the kids goodnight, and not one points out that they are literally in one’s bedroom? I suppose they simply knew he was lying but it made me more curious as to where the hell they were.
Someone on a podcast said we probably won’t see the kids this season at all, they wouldn’t have risked their health during Covid. I imagine they’re (Sophia & Iverson) upstairs with Rava.
they’re also probably three-ish years older than they should be at this point. probably won’t be seeing them again, not that kendall will miss them
Would absolutely make a lot of sense if it were just a logistics thing. Child actors add a lot of complications to a production even when there’s not a pandemic going on.
And Roman touching all of Sophie’s things on top of the dresser after Kendall said, “Don’t touch anything.” So childish, so perfect
Aren’t Kendall’s kids a no-show because of the productions COVID-19 restrictions? last two eps have been set indoors for the majority, so i assume the production are just trying to keep the cast down to essentials. plus, who gives a shit about the kids, anyway? lol.
I’m sure that’s the practical reason, but I can also easily believe that Rava has the personal means to be able to stay somewhere else while Kendall commandeers her primary home.
Also, it was a long time between seasons 2 and 3 yet in the show’s chronology it’s only a couple of months since Season 1, so I bet it would be jarring seeing Sophie and Iverson Roy now looking much older.
Side note unrelated to this show specifically: as someone who works in production, people waaaaaay overstate what COVID restrictions actually do prohibit. With a shitton of masks, testing, and health & safety monitors, you can still do most things you could do before (with the exception of scenes with massive amounts of background numbering in the multi-100’s, that’s probably the one thing you can’t do anymore)
I know I’m in the minority (and the grays) here, but the show is starting to feel like a prestige version of the Charlie Brown trying to kick the football meme. Someone needs to do a supercut of all the calls Logan makes where he tells one of the kids they’re next. It’d be longer than Dune.
Would you settle for ‘these are MY M&Ms’
I mean, before “Charlie Brown trying to kick the football” was a meme, it was, you know, a cartoon. A cartoon which eventually got adapted into multiple TV specials. It’s a story device that can work, the issue is that it’s supposed to be the characters who keep falling for the trick, not the audience. I think the show has made it perfectly clear to the audience that they shouldn’t expect Logan to ever pull through on one of these promises.
“King Potato” is gender biased. You may be “Sovereign Potato” or “Regnal Potato” or you’ll be cancelled.
What really struck me about this ep is that no one picked up on the fact that Greg’s Grampa Ewan is “putting his affairs in order” and “ Getting his estate settled”— those are the words of a dying man—- with potential for gain by some deft suck-up. Does any actor on Earth do befuddled better than Nicholas Braun? I remember him the first time on Law and Order…..fukn brilliant. Necessarily!!
You should have seen him on SNL when Keenan kept calling him Lindsay Buckingham….
I think that was a fake out, designed to pull Greg closer to him. Ewan made threats in the past about cutting Greg out, and so the relationship seems very conditional to me. Ewan has to periodically remind Greg that he can withdraw his support and cut him out of the will at any moment in order to maintain control over him.
Ewan seems like the kind of old man who’s in the process of dying for 30 years. You could be right but changing his will is the way he exerts control over his part of the family and he may be “putting his affairs in order” every time he wants attention.
Next week-he meets with Greg, and as soon as he’s out of sight the cane is gone and he drops 10 years.
Part of this “putting his affairs in order” is clearly to make a last attempt to sabotage his brother’s empire: and he sees Greg as the potential mole that he can use to get in and take it down with help from his revolutionary lawyer. It surprises me that Ewan hasn’t reached out to Kendall after his public admonishing of Logan, but perhaps he already knows that Kendall did that as a maneuver to take over, whereas Ewan wants to take it all down.
Well yes – Ewan thinks Kendall is a meretricious popinjay, and hysterical to boot.
Yes, like the ol’ Hyman Roth from Godfather Part II. “He’s been dying of the same heart attack for 30 years, but he thinks he’s gonna live forever.”
Not sure how old Ewan is supposed to be (I know James Cromwell just hit 80) but he’s definitely old enough to be the type of person who has been in the process of “putting his affairs in order” for at least a decade.
Greg is going to be in control, by the time this ends. The players all underestimate him as this comparative bumpkin, but think about how he first got onto the board. He’s not educated to their ways, but he is no naïf, and he learns very, very quickly. He tried attaching himself to Tom. Why? So he could be close to the inner circle but not at all a concern. As soon as Tom turned out to be a deader end than anticipated, he started distancing himself. First season Greg would probably have accepted the company lawyer. Second season Greg would have accepted Kendall’s. Third season Greg knows to get his own. He’s learned, and quickly. More, in none of this has there _ever_ been a moment where he showed the slightest trust for Logan or his children. They trust him, and he is going to take them down.
If it is to be said, so it be, so it is. This is the Gospel of Greg.
I think Greg has learned a little bit as the series has gone on, but I don’t necessarily think he’s learned terribly quickly, nor do I think he has anywhere near the level of savvy to function on his own. I mean, we spent a whole scene with him this episode where he was quizzing a first-year law student for advice on what to do.He’s got just enough knowledge to know his way around, but he really doesn’t have any idea what to do once he get’s there. Hence, why he keeps latching on to people from Tom to Kendall to Ewan.
A first-*semester* law student!
So, when making the AD/Succesion comparisons, Shiv-Lindsey is pretty clear, but the three brothers, I’m still not sure which one is Michael, which one is GOB and which one is Buster.More specifically, they seem to be changing from season to season.Kendall went from Michael to Buster to a GOB who thinks he’s a MichaelConnor went from Buster to MichaelRoman was GOB but now he’s turning into the Buster.
Kendall is definitely Michael – “the one son who has no choice but to keep them all together” – at least in his eyesConnor is definitely Buster despite the age – basically someone who could just be napping in the room while talks are happening and you wouldn’t noticeRoman as GOB makes sense as the wiseguy cracking jokes all the time and trying his hand at the tiller from time to timeShiv as Lindsay as you say. Tom therefore as Tobias!Logan as George SnrMarcia as Lucille – the real power behind the throneGerri as Barry ZuckerkornGregg the egg as erm.. Steve Holt!?
Shiv is to Logan what Lindsey was to Lucille. Always wanting their approval, always trying to rebel but ultimately wanting to run things and think they’re smarter than everyone else, and ultimately not getting any respect.
Was it ever mentioned before that Gerri has a family? Is she even married? You’d think with all the time she spends with the Roys, she wouldn’t have time for anything else. Some great Marcia moments but it’s still a reminder how woefully underused Hiam Abbass is. There’s so much mystery around Marcia’s character that I feel like the show focused on briefly in season 1 and then put her on the sidelines.
Shiv isn’t that much different from Kendall in the way she just keeps crawling back to Logan no matter how many times he fucks with her. At least Kendall had the balls to actually try and do something.
Gerri’s mentions in episode 2 that her husband, Shiv’s godfather, passed away and she also mentions it again to Shiv when talking about marriage. I feel like there also might have been a mention by her about some older children in the Thanksgiving episode; and Carl also alludes to it when he says Gerri should be the one to be fired because she used company funds to pay for her daughter’s education or something like that.
In the pilot or in 2nd episode, forgot which, it’s mentioned she’s a widow.
It’s been mentioned a few times. In Season 1, episode 2, her first episode, she told Roman that they were in the same hospital where they brought her husband. Roman then asked, “Oh yeah, how is he?” and she said, “Well, he’s dead, Roman.” “Yeah, no, I know. I remember.” Her dead husband was Shiv’s godfather. She has at least 2 daughters, but it’s been implied that she has had even less of a life outside of work since the passing of her husband.
“Information is going to be more precious than water’? Has my man Kendall read or watched Dune?”
There’s no way Kendall reads fiction.
He watches Bojack
Yeah, I know it is a far reach, but I giggled when Grandpa stopped Greg from continuing the conversation with, “That’ll do.”
I get how some people say this is the most cerebral show on TV, but I actually think the writing and the characters are not as deep as we want them to be. There’s not a whole lot of subtlety or nuance for these characters or their lines; they’re all shit people, and they all want the most power, and they’re all surprised when their fellow shit people around them want to share power. Obviously Kendall wants to take down Logan only to become him. Obviously Shiv and Roman are too afraid of their father (still) to be anything but power-hungry grubby little shits. Obviously Connor’s an idiot. Everyone’s just saying anything they can to promote their own self interest, and it baffles me the amount of characters that can’t see this. At some point, this show is less “brilliantly written complex characters navigate power struggles” and more “rich people being mean and owning nice apartments/clothes-porn”
I’ve got to say, I think this episode felt like more of the same from last week. Too much back and forth machinations and plotting, side-stepping and scheming and not enough plot development. I’m sure later episodes will get further into the meat of the story, but this one felt like more wheel-spinning to me.The thing that made the earlier seasons compelling is that all of the above-referenced scheming between the characters was happening whilst in the midst of some ridiculous setting, or there was a high-stakes meeting or showdown that capped off the episode. Still, watching a stalled-out episode of Succession is still so highly entertaining, it’s all good! Just want the best FROM the best.
I think that Gerri is right that the path Kendall is going down will end with none of the children heading the company. This show reminds me a lot of the Borgias in that respect. Cesare Borgia, Pope Alexander’s son, was a tactical genius and natural leader. Machiavelli described him as an ideal ruler, and he was one of the inspirations for The Prince. He was overthrown and killed 4 years after Pope Alexander died. The Roy children will suffer the same fate without Logan. Regardless of personal merit, power acquired through nepotism is fleeting.
I always took great umbrage at seeing Hiam Abbass’ name come first in the (alphabetically listed) credits. They’ve remedied that this season and – BOOM – here she is, angling for her own Emmy.
.
I would have thought it would be impossible to list Peter Riegert’s accomplishments without mentioning the one thing he was in that really mattered, but here we are…
Connor bitching about having to fly commercial is probably my favorite moment of the episode. Even first class (I presume he flew first class) and even with (presumably) the services of a private airport terminal, taking a “scheduled flight” is too pedestrian for His Highness. It conveys just how disconnected people like the Roys are from humanity, from people who aren’t billionaires, which is almost everyone — not just emotionally and socially, but physically disconnected, walled off. They hop from one bubble into another — limousines, private jets, yachts, secluded villas, mansions, cavernous hotel and office suites buffered by stables of officious secretaries and security personnel— and to the extent they ever have meaningful two-way interactions, it’s only with each other and other similarly wealthy and out-of-touch people. They exist in their own insular world, so much so that being irritated at having to take a commercial flight is just normal behavior. And Connor is convinced he’s the right guy to be President of the hoi-polloi. A populist one, mind you.
Jess cracked me up this episode. Her “surprise!” smile when Kendall told Shiv that Roman was downstairs. Her deadpan “Should I open it” on the Trojan Horse