Succession recap: Quite possibly the most brutal Roy family party yet
Kendall schemes, Roman flails, and Tom and Shiv finally "clear the air" in an ugly, intense episode of Succession
TV Reviews Willa
Who’s the bad guy here?
It’s a question that’s dogged Succession since its first few episodes, which took such seeming glee in holding up every single character in the show’s main cast and revealing them to be some flavor of ragingly toxic and deeply self-interested asshole. Whenever I bring this show up—as, you can imagine, I often, irritatingly, do—with my friends who don’t watch, it’s the obvious point of repulsion: Everybody sucks. Nobody is likable. It’s all scorpions here.
That’s the thread running through the pre-election party shenanigans of “Tailgate Party,” which fails to rank as the most disastrous Roy family gathering in recent memory only in so far as everyone in attendance literally survives the night. (Although, I won’t lie: For half a second, I thought Tom might send himself over a balcony railing by the end.) It’s present from the first, ominous moments, as we see our man Wambsgans already reverting back to the servile perfectionism that’s defined so much of his relationship with Shiv: the backwards delusion that if he pours enough fawning niceness on her, everything will be okay, regardless of the bitter grudges lurking right beneath the surface. Which become crystal clear right in that opening scene, when she opens his “joke” “gift” to her at breakfast (ahead of the regular Roy family pre-election party, which they’ll be hosting together that night), revealing a pretty profoundly passive-aggressive expression of his seething anger: a scorpion, in glass. (Or lucite, whatever. I don’t know from properly preserving scorpions.)
Because Succession is a good show, made for grown-ups, nobody bothers to call explicit attention to the “Frog And The Scorpion” allusions here. But it’ll become clear at the end of tonight’s episode—when a seething cauldron of tension in the shape of a cocktail party finally, finally explodes into that “full accounting of pain” Tom hinted at back in the season premiere—that both Tom and Shiv are operating on the incredibly blinkered belief that they’re the frog in this story, i.e., that a series of betrayals and heartbreaks and self-serving moves from their partner has given each of them a sort of invulnerable spot on the high ground from which they can righteously defend themselves. It’s an illusion, of course: They’re both scorpions, stabbing as needed when threatened, and desperately trying to use the other as a life raft while the waters rise.
But it’s a bad night for romantic—or formerly romantic—alliances all around, honestly, as the combined pressures of the GoJo deal and the election force everyone to make calls that put themselves, and only themselves, first. (You know you’re in a deplorable situation, love-wise, when Connor is your exemplar for something resembling respectful romantic behavior.) That includes a quick check-in with Kendall’s ex Rava ahead of the party (hey, Rava!) as she hammers home a rare reminder that the media empire he’s now literally the chief executive of, and which regularly spews racist hate for his own enrichment, has a massive negative impact on real people, including his own multi-racial daughter, Sophie. Later on, Kendall will try to leverage this “personal investment” as part of his life-long quest to present himself as the slightly less-shitty of two evils. But in the moment all he can do is fail to impress Rava the way he always does: by reminding her of all the big, important moves he’s doing instead of parenting his kids.
Roman, meanwhile, offers up a truly pathetic attempt to patch things up with Gerri, which amounts to little more than a reminder of how powerless he’s always been in this relationship—and even moreso now that the only person hypothetically capable of keeping Gerri Kellman cowed has been rotting in a funeral parlor for the last four days. (And consider that your regular reminder that Succession is continuing to stick to its “one day per episode” structure for season four, which only helps the impending horror of both the upcoming election, and Logan’s funeral, build throughout the night.) When he’s not being rightly excoriated by a former mentor/semi-consensual masturbation partner, Roman spends most of the rest of the evening playing middleman for right-wing presidential candidate Jeryd Mencken, who’s found himself in the frankly humiliating position of needing help, in a national presidential election, from Connor Fucking Roy.
Who is, frankly, a breath of welcome fresh air, arriving in the midst of one of the most aggressively oppressive episodes this show has ever levied. (Back in the season premiere, I referred to Shiv and Tom’s place as a “beige-brown hell”; filling its winding corridors with 200 extremely rich assholes and a bizarre collection of foosball and ping-pong tables doesn’t lessen that perception here.) It’s not just that Connor, as previously alluded, breaks with all Roy family precedent and actually listens to Willa when she suggests she might not want to live in any of the countries Mencken is offering him an ambassadorship to, in exchange for telling his Con-Heads to switch their votes. It’s also the glee Alan Ruck injects into Connor’s acceptance of the offer to horse-trade in the first place—including bringing in his old pal Maxim Pierce (a welcome return visit from Mark-Linn Baker) to evaluate Somalia or “The Slo’s” as potential landing spots. Sure, it’s transactional and mercenary. But part of what makes Connor so consistently affable—and his siblings so frequently miserable—is that years of Logan Exposure have left him as the only one of the bunch who’s truly internalized that the lives of the ultra-rich are, inherently, transactional and mercenary.
Which brings us, eventually to the incredibly complex set of pressures at the heart of both the tailgate party and “Tailgate Party” and which all center, in one way or another, on Siobhan Roy. No one’s helping, mind you: Not Roman nor Kendall, who push her to invite her old fling Nate to the party so they can try to talk him into regulating the GoJo deal out of existence. Not Tom, who—even before having to grapple with that little jab—is coming apart at the seams under the pressures of running a right-wing news network that might literally be destroying the country. And most especially not Lukas Matsson, who barges into the party during a moment of silence for Shiv’s dead father, equipped with a shit-eating grin, a dirtbag-chic jacket, and his own alternate universe version of Succession, complete with his own crew of vitriolic frenemies and a whole host of business fuck-ups trailing along in his wake.
Kudos to those of you in the comments who’ve been calling it for weeks: GoJo is, indeed, in trouble, with flaky subscription numbers that would only make sense if there were “two Indias” to support that many customers. That’s why Matsson has been so desperate for a fast Waystar deal he mostly despises, hoping to hide the fraudulent numbers in the mess of the acquisition. It’s head of comms/blood-brick recipient Ebba (Eili Harboe) who leaks the info to Kendall and Roman after yet another deeply unpleasant (and Greg-assisted) blow-up with her boss; the creeper vibes as the two brothers zero in on her, as she smokes alone on a balcony, are profound. But Ebba’s pissed enough to give them a weapon they might be able to use against Matsson anyway, one the boys are happy to casually share with Shiv, because neither of them seem to be giving her even the bare minimum of thought it would require to notice she’s blatantly betraying them at this point.
And that’s the headspace Shiv’s in—realizing that she’s hitched her star to one more bullshit artist while her brothers treat her as an afterthought—when Tom declares he’s too tired to party anymore. There’s other stuff that happens at the end of tonight’s episode—including a public pissing contest disguised as a bear hug between Kendall and Matsson, and the reveal that Kenny’s going to try to acquire GoJo all over again—but the balcony where Shiv and Tom retreat to talk things out is where the real action is happening. Matthew Macfadyen and Sarah Snook start it slow, as an entire night of dumping sand in the gears finally sends the delicate machinery of Shiv and Tom’s reconciliation careening wildly out of alignment. In the ensuing argument, nobody lies, except by omission—and oh, the blend of victory and hate in Shiv’s eyes when Tom tells her she’d be a terrible mother—and that’s what kills them. Because for all the talk of fine silk shirts and Bitey and dick-breaking sex, the truth is that this is a relationship between two people who have chosen, at almost every turn, to back themselves instead of each other. (There’s something deeply sad in the fact that Shiv doesn’t appear to have ever told Tom about “Just not Tom. Please. For me,” which may be the one moment of actual, loving sacrifice she’s ever performed for him.) The two of them say every truth, except the ones that might ease the pain, and the end result is another gorgeous, ugly performance from the toxic pair who’ve become this show’s unlikely heart. Call it a portrait of two scorpions drowning, together.
And that’s “Tailgate Party,” one of the darker installments of this show’s whole run, a claustrophobic gauntlet of planetary elites who treat national politics like a literal game, slowly working to grind each other down. The effect is unrelenting, a little disorienting, undeniably affecting. I’m aware I’ve ended practically every one of these last few reviews by asking “How dark is this going to get?” But that’s just because the dread is getting more palpable by the minute: democratic offices burning, Kendall gearing up for another big stupid betrayal, Greg being openly praised. It’s dark times in Succession Land.
And tomorrow? Tomorrow’s Election Day. No wonder Tom can’t sleep.
Stray observations
- If anyone says “I like it” to a gift in the tone with which Shiv accepts her shiny scorpion, feel free to pre-emptively delete them from your phone contacts.
- Jess Watch: There is no Jess in this episode. A pettier reviewer would deduct half a letter grade.
- “It’s all for them!” Kendall asserts to Rava about why he’s “breaking his back” on “six continents.” “To make the world safe!” There was a conversation in the comments last week about whether Kendall’s using again, but I think he’s genuinely just high on his own supply.
- Connor, on visiting their dad: “The weird thing is how much…he’s not there. I find that consoling.”
- The only thing less dignified than being mass-fired by Greg would be being mass-fired by Greg while he loses his place in his notes and “tu-du-du-du”’s at you.
- An early “Oh you assholes” moment: Seeing that the Roys are serving tiny, rich people versions of “regular people” foods like burgers and fries. Meanwhile, the wine from Shiv and Tom’s vineyard “smells like wet dog,” according to Frank.
- “And they want what? ATN to go full ‘We’re coming to give all your guns hormone therapy, all your guns are gonna be ladies?’”
- Connor shoots down Mogadishu: “Little bit car-bomb-y.”
- “Hey, I’m about to take a shit in your husband’s mouth, and I’m pretty sure he’s gonna tell me it tastes like coq au vin.”
- Alexander Skarsgård gets to have a ton of fun this episode, but maybe never more than when he dismisses Greg with a casual “Yeah, you too, Gary.”
- “Con, they’re not going to put you anywhere with nukes.”
- “I can’t wiggle my way in there. He’s just slobbering up Nate with Shiv.”
“They’re just talking, Greg.” Matthew Macfadyen makes that line sound so sad. - They really dial in on the Matsson/Elon Musk parallels tonight, with Ebba claiming he’s basically a figurehead for pre-assembled tech.
- Best facial acting of the night: Snook as Shiv works through pretending to be angry about Matsson’s bullshit numbers for her brothers while also genuinely being angry about Matsson’s bullshit numbers for herself.
- Greg on the Greg appeal: “HR says I’m the right guy for the job because it looks like I care…but I don’t.”
- “I could have got you there. But nope. Nope.” The little laugh J. Smith-Cameron tosses in there. So brutal, so good.
- Wait, no, the most fun Skarsgård has tonight is sarcastically pointing to himself in the background of the shot where Connor says “There’s one person here who doesn’t think I’m a joke.”
- “You don’t deserve me and you never did. And everything came out of that…” And then she takes a pause to hear herself, the raw honest brutality of it. “So fucking flat…” There are so many quotable cruelties in that last fight, but that one drilled me.
302 Comments
Go Gerri, that smackdown and ownage of Roman was beautiful.(of course he probably went off to wack it right after that, but still…)
I was waiting to see when the dick picks would come back to bite him… well in the dick. I’m surprise she didn’t use it as leverage last week but god damn was it beautiful to see it used tonight as a “f**k around and find out” moment! #sickpuppy
Geri being Geri, she didn’t use them until she’d retained outside counsel and PR. Smart lady.
Why does no one see that the dick pics hurt Gerri more than anyone. Gerri was CEO when Roman sent her the pics. Roman owns the largest media empire on earth. Here’s the play from Kendall “Gerri served my father loyally for 40 years of his career. As his health started to decline, Gerri took over the CEO role in a temporary capacity and within that role tried to create leverage over my brother Roman. She coerced him into a sexual relationship with the promise of promotion and once my father found out how she was manipulating his son he quickly made moves to remove her from the company. Now she is creating a fanciful story where as CEO collecting incriminating evidence that she is the victim. My brother Roman has stepped down as co-CEO to focus on himself and we have decided to enter into litigation with Gerri Kellerman to expose her as the sexual deviant she is.”
That’s why Geri emphasized that she had retained “image management”. Like, it was right there in the conversation. And Roman wants to be a CEO. He can’t portray himself as weak, deviant, or easily manipulated. Even if the law would technically be on his side, it would ruin him. And no, no one is going to believe that Roman was worried about getting a job in his dad’s company.
Retaining “Image Management” is only effective if what she has hurts them more than it hurts her. You realize that in her role as CEO she solicited photo’s that she’s now using to extort a nine-figure payout. The show is playing on the audiences perceived gender bias here but if you flip the genders on this it’s clear sexploitation regardless of what the subordinates last name is.
I’m amused that you think Roman has evidence that Geri “solicited” anything. Certainly not in the text we saw, where it was clearly sent to offend her. And bleating “if you flip the genders” just proves the whole point. This is an area where sexism solidly works in Geri’s favor. The PR writes itself. You’re naively appealing to legalities. PR only vaguely cares about the law. Geri wins the PR battle easily and Roman can’t afford a protracted legal battle. It would ruin any chance he has at CEO. Additionally, do you think Kendall wants an embarrassing sex-scandal right now?
I think the PR battle clearly writes itself in a case where one side isn’t the largest content producer on planet earth. To your question does Kendall want a sex scandal right now? 100% he does – he gets to shit can Gerri, make a show of clearing out his father’s dumb dumbs while standing up for his brother and kicking him out of the co-CEO role? That sounds like a major Kendall win to me.
Kendall is trying to cast WS as the powerful, sensible elder statesman company compared to the “run by a deviant sex-pest loony,” Gojo. If he did want a sex-scandal, he’d be better off siding with Geri than his brother
Yea I agree with you but he goes both ways of clearing out all of the sex pests. He wants Roman out but if can get rid of Gerri that benefits him as well
Does getting rid of Geri benefit him? She’s competent, reliable, and morally flexible. Basically the ideal general counsel for him. If he really wants to be Logan, but bigger, keeping Geri makes sense. Roman wanted to get rid of Geri for personal reasons and Kendall is letting him run amok, but if it’s just Kendall? Again, he’d be better off just kicking Roman out.
You’re viewing this a bit utopian as if Gerri doesn’t have agency and, like Tom, is there to serve. When a new person comes in and takes power, they eliminate all of the previous power’s underlings and replace them with their own trusted lieutenants. Kendall doesn’t really know where Gerri lies – Gerri’s never been there for Kendall – out of the olds only Frank was – so while competent she’s never really been team Kendall. She probably killed herself in Kendall’s eyes when he first tried to take over and she didn’t back Frank as she felt that the sands had shifted. Had she come to Kendall after Roman first fired her he probably would’ve taken her in but seeing as she’s out for herself she’s now completely expendable and Kendall has no loyalty to her and she’s only useful as a way to take out his brother as co-CEO and amass power for himself.
I think your view is utopian if you think Kendall has “loyalty” to anyone employed at WS. His loyalty is based on the degree of usefulness a person has to him.
I’ll give you this: you are so willing to die on your stupid argument hill! Go for it!
have to do something while sitting on litigation conference calls
ha! this made me laugh out loud (particularly because we are in the same profession). Carry on!
I find the show is pretty realistic with the details around transactions (hence how anyone involved in any form of finance knew GoJo was in real bad shape) so the idea that Gerri was harmed from sexual harassment is kind of laughable.
Nah, ain’t nobody gonna believe that. It’s the risk to his reputation, he’s not going to be CEO with dick pics that he sent to staff floating around (also she was interim, it’s not the same level of coercion when the son of your boss, who is one of the most powerful men in the country, is the culprit).
“Happy happy headbangersHere we are”- Roman Roy
Was that supposed to be a smackdown? Because it really felt like she was flailing. Which she has ever since Roman fired her on the boat. She’s supposed to be the one thats coolheaded and seeing the board, but Roman just shrugs her off, probably because, as Shiv noted last year, Roman was her junior at the company when those picks went out. She could embarrass Roman, if that is possible, but it would have expose their relationship which would destroy her. It feels like she’s out of cards to play and her last line, where she says she could have made something of him, felt more like regret on her part that she made the wrong play in how she dealt with Roman.
I will note that Roman for sure does not “shrug this off,” he immediately goes from Gerri dismissing him to trying to browbeat Connor into submission, talking shit about Willa and making a pretty huge public spectacle with his “I got this” when Kendall tries to de-escalate. He’s angry and spinning.
It’s 100% bad for Roman. Roman is spiralling way way way out of control.
I think you missed what I was saying, he shrugged off the dick pic and isn’t going to give in to her money demands. He was very upset that Gerri wouldn’t just be friends with him. He wanted to restore their freindship and his pissed because it ended up as a business negotiation he wants no part of.
If you thought that was Roman “shrugging” her off, you’re extremely bad at interpreting what you’re watching. They spoonfed you the next scene where Roman flips out at Connor in a forlorn and failed attempt to find someone he can browbeat.
I think you missed what I was saying, he shrugged off the dick pic and isn’t going to give in to her money demands. He was very upset that Gerri wouldn’t just be friends with him. He wanted to restore their freindship and he is pissed because it ended up as a business negotiation he wants no part of. What he wanted was a friend, and he failed to close that. But watch Geri storm off, she knows she didn’t make a dent in her business demands, that’s why she is lamenting that she didn’t stick closer to Roman.
That is a laughably ridiculous interpretation of that scene. Roman literally walks away from his failed attempt to reconcile with Geri to an equally failed attempt to browbeat his weakest brother. You didn’t catch that the Connor scene was Roman transparently searching for anyone who he could bully into obeying him?
That is exactly what I said. Roman loses, because he fails to reconcile the relationship, not because of the dick pics. Gerri also loses which is why she’s kind of just talking to herself at the end of the scene.
Gerri basically smashes Roman with the “eye watering amounts” dig and the threat of releasing his dick-pics, so yes, I see that as a fully calculated ‘smack down’.
Watch it again, For Roman the scene is about the “I’m sorry” and wanting to be friends. Gerri tries to make it about money and compromat but Roman does not care about that. That’s why both walk away angry. Gerri knows that her leverage and threats are worthless, which has been something that has come up every time she has talked with Roman, and Roman just wants to be reconnected with Gerri.She knows that she misplayed this, because if she didn’t make it personal, from the moment his father died, she would have had his ear through this whole thing. Gerri’s only power is that Roman cares for her, so yes, he gets smacked down, but only because Gerri cant get out of her own way.
Nah. If that were the case, they wouldn’t show Roman rushing off desperate to squeeze a win from Connor and failing to even do that. Roman is spinning out.
I’ve liked watching the evolution of Gerri. We saw her early on as not terribly assertive, likely because she’s preserved her spot just competently doing whatever Logan wanted her to do. We never saw the combat side of her, even though it was hinted at. Gradually the question of whether she had the firepower to be general counsel of a business like Waystar Royco has been put to rest.
If it isn’t Greg or Tom taking over the whole shebang at the end, I’d like it to be Gerri. Then she can send Roman and Kendall to a padded cell.
She’s the one who best knows how to keep the plates spinning. I don’t see her having any big ideas for the business itself.
We have all watched episode after episode of the Roy family take their turns at being monsters, but I can’t recall one where the big four (Kendall, Shiv, Roman and Tom) in equal measure displayed their toxic cores. It was like a collision of several court plays by Shakespeare (King Lear died with Logan) with unparalleled scheming and survival with blood left on the floor —the claustrophobia of the townhouse was very effective here.But the “One Head, One Crown” was stunning. It was breathtaking in its simplicity and it was Kendall Roy at his most malignant. Thrilling.
I have really enjoyed watching Kendall revert to type progressively over the last three episodes. The confrontation with Rava to me was just the culmination of everything he’s become: grandiose without much reason to be, full of empty bluster, perpetually incapable of focusing on the things that matter. He is much like Macbeth: Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
Yeah his self-aggrandizement while she rolled her eyes and walked away was hard to watch. Keep telling yourself that, Ken Doll.
The “everything I do is for my kids” line Kendall feeds Rava is cribbed straight from what Logan says during the family therapy session in Austerlitz. Kendall knew it was bullshit coming from his father, yet he still wants Rava to buy it coming from him.
Pretty sure Kendall was off doing meth with the white trash posse during that therapy session, but I still think you’re right: Logan probably said that line once a year to his kids and Ken was surely around for a few of them.
Yea but Logan’s said that in multiple episodes in front of Kendall – he said it at the dinner they had last year too
‘White trash posse’…LOL
Shiv’s mom the previous season telling her that Logan loves to kick things to see if they come back, and Shiv doing the same with Tom but this time he might not come back must be a big blow to her. At the same time, Tom is hardly innocent. There were some real truths from both of them, and Shiv being upset that Tom took those last few months from her and Logan was heart wrenching :(a lot of mind fucks with the deal that I don’t know which kid is aligning themselves correctly. Gerri is smart to get the fuck off this captainless ship.
Gerri is not good at her job.
By what measure is Gerri not good at her job? She is a bastion of competence in a sea of bullshit artists.
She’s dropped the ball multiple times. She’s a dinosaur
“and Shiv being upset that Tom took those last few months from her and Logan was heart wrenching”
Yeah, they sure would’ve been if they hadn’t been so full of shit.
She didn’t lose time with her father, lest we forget that she, along with her brothers, went into his villa at the end of last season to stop the Mattson deal. She would have been on the outs like Kendall was, so whether Tom alerted Logan or not, she was losing those six months anyway.
Tom was right though. Logan took those last few months from Shiv, not Tom.
Tom betrayed them, and took away the upper hand from the kids. He destroyed her last attempt to finally earn Logan’s respect. That’s what they want most of all(impossible goal). Not saying the kids are healthy in their quest for validation from Logan, but it’s still what they wanted.
As a parent, Tom’s actions would not take away my respect for my child. It’s only because Logan is a piece of shit that he does. So again it comes back to him.
Yep. This. Shiv and Logan were already on very bad terms anyway before Tom’s betrayal.
“There’s one person here who doesn’t think I’m a joke.”That was such a nice, heartfelt line that it would have been way too corny for Succession. Fortunately, the framing of Matsson (beautifully out of focus) was just perfect. Probably my biggest laugh of the season so far.
I, too, would have been unsurprised by a Tom balcony dive. I’m glad it didn’t happen but the show did not shy from that possibility.
nah, Tom is way too much of a striver to ever do a swan dive. if anyone’s gonna do it, it’s Roman.
You spelled Kendall wrong
if Kendall doesn’t die of a drug overdose before the end of the series, i will eat my hat.
“Is that Gerri waiting for the valet to bring her car around? Well, here goes…”(leap)
Me questioning what Tom would doing after the fight with Shiv on the balcony:
Having had similar fights with girlfriends the night before, like, the biggest day at work the next day, I can promise: Tom isn’t sleeping tonight either.
Last shot validates you but he never was gonnaThey’re sticking to the formula of “one day per episode” and the next one is Election Day
Yeah, I’m fully expecting to see a delirious Tom next episode. I hope they don’t throw away this plot.
I hope this episode wasn’t foreshadowing that something is going to happen to Tom tomorrow, like he collapses and dies while at ATN working on election coverage. It feels like something a lesser show would do to dial up the drama, so I don’t think it’s in the cards. But whenever I see a show return to a physical ailment so many times in one episode, it pricks my ears up.
I think the more likely outcome is that he’ll be comically delirious and make the election day broadcast a comical shit show. I wouldn’t be surprised if it costs him his job and somehow he’s replaced by Greg.
Yeah, I think that’s more likely, too (and I’m totally here for that). I remember that Jesse Armstrong or somebody said once that Succession is a show that tells you where it’s going. It’s not trying to pull a fast one or building a mystery box where viewers are asked to figure out what unexpected thing is going to happen next. The pleasure of Succession, to me, comes from watching these horrible people do exactly what you think they’re going to do, to their own detriment. With that in mind, if you follow the road map that this episode laid out, it’s setting the stage for a pretty epic Tom meltdown tomorrow at ATN. Bring it on. Shoot it directly into my veins.
The groundwork of quality to the writing has been masterful from the beginning. Logan is a control freak but his health scare puts the need for a time-certain succession plan in motion, and we quickly learn that the others within the company are yes-men, and his kids are in no way qualified to run a global media empire. Everything that’s happened since is born out of that set of circumstances. No real successor emerges, the kids play at dealmaking but have no real idea what they’re doing, and it’s every man for himself.
You reminded me of the big fight between Amy Schumer and Bill Hader’s characters in Trainwreck. I didn’t love the movie and honestly haven’t thought about it much since I saw it but there’s a great moment where they’re having a big fight the night before Hader’s character has to perform a major surgery and he’s like, “Okay, y’know what, I have a very important day at work tomorrow; can we please talk more about this tomorrow?” and she’s like “what are you talking about? We’re arguing; we can’t just stop now.”
“They’re not all cryptofascist right-wing nutjobs, we also have some venture-capital Dems and centrist ghouls.”Another example of why I feel like the political stuff is the weakest writing on the show. Actual scions of a powerful conservative media mogul would not talk like this. You know who would? Actors playing scions of a conservative media mogul, as written by a leftist British TV writer. Veep sort of had the same issue, in my opinion, although I guess it was never obvious which party she was supposed to belong to.
I don’t know, but they might talk like that if they’re not particularly ideological and only care about money. It’s plausible super rich people might accurately describe the fascist right wing and corporate Dems since it’s common knowledge for any one who follows the news that both exist. That they’re the sons of a conservative media icon wouldn’t necessarily make them conservatives; look some of the kids in the Trump and Murdoch families. They care about profit and transactions above all.
Any real version of these people, even if they felt that way, would have total contempt for self-styled progressives and the far left. But that does not seem to make it into these scripts.
This seems like such a silly thing to so confidently declare. These are people, not a breed of dogs. There is no one single thing people like this say or don’t say. Also, I’m not sure how that line isn’t plenty contemptuous of people who people like Ken would be contemptuous of?
lol. no. the only politics the rich and powerful care for is about preserving the status quo. the faux right/left stuff is the distraction they sell you to keep you from seeing the former.
Don’t wake the sheeple up too quickly, bro.
With all due respect, I don’t think the psychology of how the rich and powerful *really think* is going to be revealed on an AV Club message board.
The larger point is that everyone still governs the same way and the self-styled progressive movement has no ability to actually govern or understand how anything works. The people in power know the masses need distraction and when they get together it’s like “oh you got us that one but did you see us get you on this one.” The job is to maintain the status quo of power while progressing at a reasonable pace.
Uh, Logan, Roman, Connor, and Tom have openly expressed contempt for liberals many times throughout the series. The primary reason why Shiv wants to own and take over Pierce Media is to keep it liberal and protect it from her family.But as everyone else here has been saying, when it comes down to it, when it comes to the elite, money, power, and personality are more important than political ideologies. That’s why Murdoch, Trump, The Kochs, etc, have no problem partying and rubbing noses with the Obama’s, Clintons, Pelosi, and etc.
Worth noting that progressives never get in the room – no one even slightly left would ever be anywhere near that party. It doesn’t even occur to the Roys that the left point of view exists/matters – look at Roman’s absolute bafflement when he’s told that all the talent at his studio aren’t particularly psyched to work for a company that’s putting a fascist in the white house so that they can make more money.
The daughter worked for a Bernie Sanders-style politician.
As a way of needling her dad. She abandoned all pretense of having ‘values’ the minute he got sick and there was a chance to take over the family business.
Um, what show are you watching?
Succession. Other than that? I like Barry.
And remember, they want to be cool, particularly Kendall. He desperately wants to be cool, and knows he can’t be if truly conservative. He hasn’t embraced that yet
Or look at Hunter Biden. He doesn’t care what he has to do to get money….or drugs….or strippers. You get the point.
They talk like this because they are completely unaffected by political ideologies. Observation is easy since they truly are observing, political decisions have zero impact on their lives. Logan and Nan represent old American conservatism and liberalism, which is quite different than today. And the kids are just individualism to the extreme.A lot of the 1% are liberals which is deeply ironic.
the older generation wasn’t that different. it’s always been about money and class.
yeah, i think it was a pretty accurate depiction of how the wealthy elite operate; “right” vs. “left” performatively standing on opposite sides of some nebulous political spectrum, but in the end, everyone finds themselves in the same room, eating the same hors d’oeuvres, making contingencies for any possible outcome. in America there is no real “right” or “left” anymore – it’s just the people attending that party vs. everyone else.
And some of the richest people are politicians, which shouldn’t be possible….unless they are corrupt.
Definitely this. Their dad wouldn’t have said that because he actually IS staunchly conservative. The kids are just….. wealthy. They don’t care about the specifics as long as they can still use and manipulate. It’s interesting whenever they even vaguely reference their father’s conservatism or politics its usually in casual jokes about him being racist and misogynistic. They don’t see themselves as being as bigoted as him, but they are. They’re just apathetic because none of it really *matters* to them. Reminds me of that scene where Greg tells Tom he doesn’t want to work at ATN because he has principles and Tom is like “don’t be an asshole you don’t have principles.” and here we are 2 seasons later and Greg has indeed abandoned all those alleged principles lol.
A lot of the 1% are libertarians… FTFY
“People in satire don’t talk like people in life.”
Err, yeah.
The writer of this episode, Will Tracy, is American.
The showrunner who sets the tone of the series, Jessie Armstrong, is British.
This is Kendall making a joke, pretty much sounds like a joke a failson would make.
I kindly disagree. When you have a white-collar office job and are surrounded by intellectuals who each try to outdo one another on a daily basis, you’ll hear the most mundane thoughts turned into Einstein-style comments like ‘has the 16-oz restock been fulfilled?’ for missing coffee cups in the breakroom. Manly folks really want to sound smart in excess.
The REAL versions of these characters would be boring as hell. The Murdoch kids are snoozes. That’s why drama works so well to tell these stories. They can be punched up a bit to be compelling while still delivering the truth about wealth and corruption. That line was funny, even if it does sound a little like a “line.” But the delivery works so well for Roman.
Yeah, I know some of the Murdoch kids are more left leaning (which means nothing considering their father’s point of view) but they would probably just phase some of the hardcore right wing stuff out over time and slowly start enticing centrist leaning viewers and not because they actually care about people but because boomers are dying and millennials and gen-z are staying left as they age, it’s about realizing changing demographics and wanting to make money. Basically don’t make any obvious waves and make behind the scene shifts.
So that would be incredibly boring to watch.
Kendall said it.
They ALL sound like “lines,” that’s a calling card of the show’s writing.
Exactly, none of the billionaires I know and hang out with talk like that.
I know, right? Finally someone gets what I was saying.
Tucker Carlson’s texts JUST came out. We know this is how they talk. LOL
That’s a different animal. Carlson’s the person Logan would put in front of the camera to maximize profits, and is more than welcome to actually believe what he says on-air.
The thing is, it’s not *their* empire, and they hated their dad as children. They’re so wealthy and entitled, they think they can remain “liberal” and still have disdain for this fox News culture they’re creating/consuming /perpetuating (not to mention profiting off of) without paying actual consequences. There are plenty of precedents for famous progeny defying their parents’ neo-con ideology. Think: Claudia Conway… Ron Regan (“Jr”)…
Proud of myself for calling Mattson trying to use the deal to cover something up.Less proud of myself for my next prediction, which I am less confident about…Frank is Kendall’s real dad, isn’t he?Been getting this vibe all season, Frank does seem to have genuine affection for Ken, and honestly, he looks more like Jeremy Strong’s dad than Brian Cox does.It would be a heck of a last minute reveal to make Kendall not a Roy anymore.
That’s interesting. So how long has Frank been involved with Waystar? How well did he know Caroline? I would doubt that the situation permitted it, but I like your creative thinking.
Frank and Logan been BFF for way back, pre-Waystar. But if I recall, he joined the company a few years after the company formed.
Thank you for that response. The real issue here, though, is Caroline.
Thank you for that response. The real issue here, though, is Caroline.
Didn’t he actually call Kendall “son” in the episode where Logan died? I’m not positive on that, but I seem to remember some weird moment like that that I chalked up to grief.
he did – but he did in a way that old people talk to younger people. It would explain why Logan kept bringing Frank back.
I agree with aSenseOfReason in that calling someone son is more of an older person talking to the youngsters thing. Like how plenty of people call their parents’ friends aunts and uncles despite no familial relation. What I’m not entirely sure I understand is why Frank has chosen to hitch himself to Kendall instead of looking for retirement like everyone else.
Frank is his godfather, and given how Logan is, Frank has probably been a better father figure for Kendall his whole life. So I don’t think biology really matters in this case.
That would be quite the twist and I hope you’re right!I do see the resemblance between Kendall and Frank, and off the four kids, Kendall is definitely the one that looks the least like the litter.
WHAT ARE YOU, MAURY POVICH!!!!????
At the end of the ep, I was wondering if Mattson is playing a complicated long-con of trying to get WayStar to buy GoJo and just be rid of the company with the fake numbers. But… was that Logan’s original interest in GoJo, to buy it? I guess if that were Mattson’s goal he would’ve just sold it then. Can’t remember, and it seems way too complicated to get Ebba to “reluctantly” spill the beans about India, and get Shiv involved to play double agent, etc. Just using the deal to cover something else up seems more likely, but still… That would be a hell of a twist/reveal.
To me, Mattson wanted to get around the bullshit numbers in some way and talking to Logan about selling the company was the worst case scenario for him. Being able to buy Waystar satisfies that first goal and also lets him hold onto his company.
Always with the “twists” and “reveals.” Come on, guys. That’s not what this show is about and I’d hope after 4 seasons you’d have figured that out. None of these things will happen. What you see on the screen is what it is. The question isn’t “what’s the big twist?” the question is, as it’s always been: “how will the writers resolve what they’ve put before us?”
Generally agree, but wasn’t the end of S3 a pretty big twist? They literally set it up like Tom was going to do one thing, and bringing Greg along, then revealed he was siding with Logan against his own wife. Pretty big twist.
Yeah I guess that’s true. Tooshay!
It’s spelled “touche”, capeesh?
Yeah, but not a twist for twist’s sake. Like he said to Kendall, “I’ve see you get fucked a lot. I’ve never seen Logan get fucked.” (or something to that effect). It was a combination of self-preservation and grasping at the next rung.
that seems like a soap opera-esque twist and I don’t believe the show would do it. Frank is a better dad to Kendall than Logan ever was, *despite* the fact he’s not his biological father. Not because he is.
Frank is Kendall’s Godfather. Even if he is not his father by blood, he has been written to be someone who has been very close to him, thus a father figure. Possibly one who actually has tried to groom the man.
Eh, I think Frank just has some genuine affection for a neglected kid who he had a connection with. Like Paul McCartney with Julian Lennon.
Willa had some real bangers this episode. “Will we be able to live above ground?” The entire Connor sub-plot was hilarious starting with the opening offer being Ambassador to Somalia and ramping up from there. That Tom/Shiv fight was incredible though. An entire relationship built around being cruel to one another and then the gloves really come off. Brutal.
They’re both scorpions, and too attached each in their self-pitying state to self-perceiving as the frogs in the fable to see it
You gotta feel for Willa – she finally gets her glamerous NYC apartment with a Starbucks nearby, and her husband almost immediately decides to move them back to another desert. All because he was interested in politics from a very young age.
i mean, this is almost right, except that S4 Willa is a much smoother operator than S1 Willa, and this time she only needs a few minutes at the party to successfully convince Connor to stay in the race, “to see what happens.” my girl has been pickin’ up some skills hanging around this nightmare of a family. 🙂
S1 Willa was an escort who was happy with the money offered, and not a little weirded out at the idea of going full-time for Connor. That also means she knew how to take care of herself and manipulate others, and has gradually applied those skills in ever-escalating ways. She reminds me a bit of the girls in White Lotus season 2. She’ll extract whatever she can from Connor for as long as possible, then hit the exit.
her reading of, “at least i’m only getting fucked by ONE member of this family” in S1 was iconic. we have always been Willa stans in this house. (as someone in the same line of work, she’s a goddamn inspiration.) 🙂
At least it’s clear Connor knows where to put his love and energy. Willa might save him from himself by refusing to settle for scraps. Especially since she gets nothing out of his petty political ambitions that money doesn’t already provide.
By the end of the episode Connor decided not to take the ambassador role so he can see the election through. He does it in part because of Willa’s encouragement.
“Being able to run people over isn’t a selling point” was great, given that I feel every 10 year old boy hears about diplomatic plates and has a conversation with friends about how cool it would be to be able to drive on the sidewalk.Or maybe that was just around when that Lethal Weapon came out
It would be pretty fun if a country ever tried to enforce absolute diplomatic immunity, and suddenly found themselves cut off from the rest of the world.
If an American diplomat ran over an American tourist in that foreign country, diplomatic immunity would be worth nothing for that diplomat.
“will we be able to live above ground?” is a hilarious callback to S1 when Connor asks Willa to move to his ranch. (“how far is it to a Starbucks?”) Willa is the definitely the one character on this show who’s learned how to successfully wheel and deal better than any of them; first she got her money locked down via marriage, and tonight she calmly manipulates Connor into rejecting the ambassadorship in Oman to, “see how things play out” in the election. (whereas in S1 she was much more of a passive figure trying not to make any waves.) props to my girl.
I don’t read it as manipulating, just communicating her own wants with Connor actually listening, because she’s the best human on the show and Connor is the second best.
if you didn’t interpret what Willa said at the party as subtle, skillful manipulation, then congrats, it worked on you too.
If you view literally all human communication of our wants and needs as manipulation, then sure, I guess.
question: did Willa ever explicitly state her wants and needs? no. did she say, “I don’t want to live in Oman for x, y, z reason”? no. what she DID do was convince Connor to stay in the race, “just to see what happens” and suggested he could do all sorts of things like write a book about his time on the campaign trail, etc. all of these subtle maneuvers are examples of Willa MANIPULATING Connor into doing what SHE wants (which is to NOT go to Oman) by making Connor think it was in HIS best interest. that is a pretty textbook example of manipulation, and if you’re too naive to see that, then i feel like a lot of the central themes of this show probably go right over your head. (because in the Succession world, every interaction IS transactional. it’s literally the central thesis of the show.)
“Con, they’re not going to put you anywhere with nukes.”“I’m not sure I want to go anywhere that doesn’t have nukes.”
That line got the biggest chuckle from us last night.
Connor should have taken Slovenia. Yes, it’s tiny, but beautiful with both great Alpine and coastal locations, really close to Milan and it is on its way to surpass the UK in GDP per capita. Apparently they also like Napoleon over there.
“…and it is on its way to surpass the UK in GDP per capita.”To be fair, Somalia is on its way to surpass the UK in GDP per capita…
Love Slovenia. Also, Connor said he wanted to start in the Balkans, but then said no to Slovenia??
“That Tom/Shiv fight was incredible though. An entire relationship built around being cruel to one another” Since when was Tom cruel to Shiv? Because he hitched his wagon to Logan after putting up with years of emotional manipulation, betrayal and callous disregard from her when he actually obviously loves her?
I’ve never rooted so hard for Shiv and Tom to make it work. That was a brilliant argument, and, I think, kind of healthy for the both of them. They were honest about each other and the hurt they did to each other and the hurt they did to themselves. Shiv announcing right there and then that she was pregnant would have instantly ended the fight and made both happy, but she’s so insecure and damaged that she can’t tell Tom.
The great myth this masterpiece of a show perpetuates is that the super rich are miserable, broken, and dysfunctional. When in fact in the real world, they can be cheerful, happy monsters who aren’t broken and in broken families (except the Trumps).And Conn0r tonight was the best. I’d vote for Connor (not really). Fuck up Mencken in the election, Willa and Connor!
I mean, I root for them to stay together because they deserve nothing more than to make each other miserable forever, and that limits who else they can destroy.Do you actually like these people?
You don’t like to have ungodly amount of money and serfs to step on?
“Shiv announcing right there and then that she was pregnant would have instantly ended the fight and made both happy”
Tell me you don’t get Shiv at all without using those exact words.
Root for them to make it work?You have to either like them, and hope they get far away from each other and end their horrible relationship, or hate them, and hope they end up unhappily together.Don’t see the third option.
As someone who went to a school with several rich students. I can say that while rich people wouldn’t be fighting over drinking too much beer and how to spend money, they would be fighting over drinking too much wine and the secret second family one of them has on another continent.
The great myth this masterpiece of a show perpetuates is that the super rich are miserable, broken, and dysfunctional. When in fact in the real world, they can be cheerful, happy monsters who aren’t broken and in broken families.Genuinely curious, can you point to one?
I can’t really because I don’t follow the lives of the super wealthy. But just on probability alone…There’s not a direct causal link between wealth and unhappiness. We commoners like to think so to feel better about the lack of wealth we have, but money can make life better and easier, which can result in happiness. And relationships between people who have great money don’t have to break down. Why the Roys are unhappy is not because of money, but because their dad, in the pursuit of money, was an asshole. So the show is a great critique of what capitalism does to a person. I’ve maintained throughout the series’ run that the show’s villain is actually America’s capitalistic system, not the Roys, including Logan. They have had agency, but they’re all victims too.
I definitely think there are rich millionaire families, but by the time you get to the billions, they are built on the bones of human by psychopaths. There isn’t really a moral way to acquire billions.
No there isn’t, and the psychological gymnastics, justifications, rationalizations that type of person needs to feel like a good, healthy person can be great and actually screw up the person. I’m sure there are various ways the super rich handle it. And I would not doubt they live in great anxiety a large part of the time. But just like anything initially new, human beings have a way to acclimate themselves to it, and I think the .001 percent can be blithely happy with good relationships.
As far as billionaires go, Bill Gates has always seemed fairly cheery – he’s also noted for his philanthropy and as far as I’m aware, his career was never plagued by stories of workplace suicide amongst his staff, third world exploitation etc.
So the Trumps are the only broken political family? Perhaps you missed the current White House family.
A third-party candidate screwing over the Republican for once?! What a refreshing twist!
Ros Perot?
Thought about that one, yeah, and he definitely cost GW Bush. But that was basically the catalyst for the current GOP strategy of lining up behind whoever the nominee is, no matter who it is. Doesn’t seem realistic that a third party candidate will ever siphon meaningful amounts of votes for a Republican presidential nominee again.
I’m not sure how replying ‘I’m pregnant’ to ‘you are not a good person to have children’ would shore things up in the relationship.
Tom is hurt and pissed off. He also has some juicy dirt on Mattson, and control of a news network. And tomorrow in Succession-world is election day, when everyone is going to be watching the news.
Yes, I think the last shot of Tom in bed said a lot. He wasn’t desperately trying to sleep or in emotional agony. I think he’s plotting.
Since episode 6 this season I’ve had this feeling that conversation with Mattson on the mountain (scooby doos) that it may lead to romans downfall. Mattson kept saying do you hear what he’s saying (implying the SEC violation or something) to kendall, roman said no one is gonna believe you if you report me and when they were leaving the mountain by the tramway going down, roman said glad nobody heard that to ken.
This is all paraphrased but after seeing last ken scenetonight it seems like he may be playing roman.
Hopefully not but somebody gon get screwed however the deal ends up.
What doesn’t track for me is how devastated Tom is at the prospect of losing his job. He’s got to have millions in WayStar stock by now, not to mention a gigantic severance package waiting for him, regardless of who terminates him. If he’s a hick, tow it all back to the farm in Podunk and live happily ever after.
He isn’t motivated by money itself – none of them are or they could all retire and go lay on a beach somewhere. Winning, status, power is where their hearts are.
Nah, he says it’s the money he loves, but like all of them, what he really loves is the power that money creates. There is nowhere, outside of the Roy family, where Tom would ever be able to have a position of power, which is why he’s more upset about potentially losing his job than he is of losing Shiv.
Yeah. In Tom and Shiv’s dynamic Tom was always 2nd priority. So in the event that there was a choice to be made between Tom and Shiv the choice should always be Shiv. I think Tom was fine with that unspoken rule when he believed that Shiv would always protect him (business wise). Like, that was the only thing left, with all the infidelity and not returning his affection she would at least protect him. And when he realized that she wouldn’t, and that she was just as okay throwing him under the bus to help herself as the rest of her family, the facade of their relationship really started to fall apart. So I think the real betrayal for Shiv was Tom doing to her what she had done to him. He tried to get that power and secure a place for himself without her. And that wasn’t what their unspoken agreement was.
Losing Shiv would be a blessing in disguise for Tom. She is the absolute worst character on the show. She pretends to be nice but she is anything but that. Dropping the open marriage bombshell on Tom AFTER they got married? Always telling him she’s too good for him? Nope. Run Tom. Run!
Outside of Roman, which character doesn’t ‘pretend’ to be nice. Why is this ‘insult’ always thrown at Shiv? Kendall has spent two seasons now thinking he’s some sort of gift to the little people.
But the show has made it clear that he’s a hick and the ONLY reason he married Shiv is because he stumbled along at precisely the right time. He married way over his head and he clearly suffers from imposter syndrome. One would think he’d be happy to take his millions and retire to the semi-bubbly winery.
So hicks can’t enjoy and crave more power?
Because he gets to be in the same room and party with as he correctly put it “40 of the most important people in America” including the Roys and that’s what most important to him: power and influence.
“He’s got to have millions in WayStar stock by now”
You haven’t been paying a lot of attention to the last season or two, have you?
If Gerri, who is senior to Tom is any indication, he probably wouldn’t get enough to satisfy him.
he doesn’t have, like, a personality outside of work and wanting to work. he has no goals or thoughts. being the richest guy in a small town would be like hell to him.
My sense is Tom getting out of Shiv’s shadow and becoming part of Logan’s inner circle was a huge boost to his sense of self-worth, and now he is seeing it slip back away. Shiv of course is perfectly fine with Tom’s betrayal netting him nothing, and when Tom realizes that he becomes profoundly angry at her lack of support for New Tom.I think one of the things this show gets basically right is the diminishing marginal utility of money, and how once they already have way more money than they can spend on more material benefit, humans tend to revert to status competitions. And in that context money becomes a means to an end of acquiring more status. Connor is a cartoonish illustration of that, but fundamentally they are all doing some variation on that same theme.So that is where Tom is–trying to compete for higher status. And Shiv wants him to lose that competition. And that makes them bitter enemies in their world.
Another “diminishing marginal utility” in this episode was Kendall’s pitiful defense of NYC to Mattson. Sent a “too real” shudder down my spine vis-a-vis America’s standing in the world.
This makes sense, except for the fact that Capitatlism has driven a massive bell curve of people insane and no one ever wants to do this. Even if they were staying IN town.
He wants to be relevant, too. Money gives you relevance, but so too does a big network job and association with a famous family. Without 2 of the 3, he won’t be happy.
Those are some interesting assumptions you’re making. Why would we necessarily think he has millions in vested Waystar stock that can cushion any blow from losing his job? Why would we think he has a gigantic severance package waiting for him? And how many millions do you think he has….enough that he never has to worry about work again? I don’t necessarily get that impression…
Sure, for your or me or 99% of most people, the amount of wealth Tom has or will have even if he’s fired would last multiple lifetimes. But once you’re in that tier, with even more within reach, anything short of that next rung up is devastating. Enough is never enough, really, for anyone.Also, no one wants to be fired.
full circle for Tom this episode doing the cry baby miming when Greg was firing 100 peeps.
Another stray observation: The look on Shiv’s face after she’d been angling for a VP role at the new WayStar/GoJo and Mattson calls her “girl”.
Isn’t she has been a VP since forever? Started off on s01 when Logan first threw her a bone to chew on. She essentially de facto holder of that position on and off for years. Even if her current title is just simply “outside adviser”.Being shafted by men of power (even her own father), surely is a bitch.
VP is a great title because most big companies have hundreds (and in the case of banks, thousands) of them, and despite the sound of it there is no authority to the role whatsoever.
I guess he figured“It’s the last season”
This take is about as reasonable as you would expect from someone with a Love Quinn avatar
I completely disagree. Shiv is far worse than Tom. I mean, what a bastard, asking her to marry him because he loves her. Wanting to have a family. And calling her out for not only dmeanding an open marriage AFTER they were married but then cheating on him. Oh and she constantly tells Tom she’s too good for him. Yep, blame the guy.
Nah, Tom proposed to her and wanted to impregnate her to make himself less expendable. Tom may have a soft touch, but he is ruthless. I never saw him the same way after his talk with Kendall, where he gently explains that he thinks Kendall is going to get fucked, and he’s never once seen Logan get fucked. He wants to stay amongst the swells and he will do whatever it takes.
rich people mini-versions of “American classic food”
I don’t think every episode is one day, especially considering the Living+ episode took place in two days: the daywhere Kendall proposed a new set be built in less than 24 hours and the day of the presentation.
“the daywhere Kendall proposed a new set be built in less than 24 hours and the day of the presentation.”
That all happened within 24 hours, or as it is commonly known, one day.
That was probably 24 hours, though.
“If anyone says “I like it” to a gift in the tone with which Shiv accepts her shiny scorpion, feel free to pre-emptively delete them from your phone contacts.”Advice Swizz Beats wishes he had before he went into the Maybach dealership.
‘you were never worthy of me, and it all stems from that’ – Shiv’s true skill is in apt summary, whatever the gravity. But she only has the courage to employ it on people she considers inconsequentual.
I will take the victory lap on Gojo being fucked but how it came out was super weird. Why constantly bring Ebba around – why not just work that problem to a resolution? If it’s just to show that Matsson is an asshole and just as dumb as the kids than that plays but it just seems like an incredibly dumb way to ruin Matsson.I’ve been saying from the beginning I’m not sure why anyone thinks Shiv is competent at all. She has not made one good move… ever. People like to say “Shiv… she’s good at this!” and when you look at what she does all of her ideas/actions are quite bad. Her dad offers her CEO and she accepts and then he reasonably asks that she take a few years to know the company and she’s like no dad I should be taking over now. She never secures herself a position at her family’s company to betray them – she’s just a needy person who needs attention and bend over to anyone who gives it to them. She might be the most incompetent Roy.I think Gerri has massively overplayed her hand here. The firm is always more powerful than she is. The only leverage she truly has is to go whistleblower which blows everything up. She acts like the dick pics are some actual leverage… she was General Council, there’s virtually no power imbalance there. Actually at the time of the affair she was CEO… like in what world does she think this is super embarrassing
As much as Roman is fucking up recently, he at minimum seems to have a gut instinct for things, he correctly sussed out Mattson on the mountain.Shiv doesn’t even have that.
Roman has the gut, Ken has the magnetism and Shiv has the perception/interpersonal skills. They all have effective qualities, but are unwilling to trust others or each other to check their blind spots (due to their own hubris, but also due to trust issues from an abusive father).
Wow. I do not find Ken magnetic at all. He’s actually repellent.He is deeply insecure and every time he performs ”bravado alpha male” it is such an obvious cosplay that it only makes him seem more pathetic. Then, he’s got those narrow, sloping shoulders and hang dog eyes that make him look sad and weak.What are examples of Ken’s magnetism?Lukas Mattsson. That’s a magnetic guy. And it’s not just a coincidence that he is written and cast as the physical and emotional polar opposite of Ken.
To us the audience he is pathetic, but when he’s in a mania, there is definitely something captivating about him. In the world he exists in, the public only catches glimpses of him at public events or on stage, he very much represents the deeply insecure men in the media we see now who have swarms of defenders.
Roman is too cynical to work with people, but sometimes you need to be cynical. Shiv is too much of a woman to be entrusted by anyone with power and she’s gotten embittered by how true this is to the point that she can’t really connect with anyone even though she’s actually the smartest one in the room. Kendall has the right level of ambition to believe you can be CEO, but he’s also incompetent and self-destructive when left to his own devices.They only work as a trio. Shiv and Roman saved Kendall from self-destructing and Kendall got all the credit. Now Kendall thinks he’s the reason he was successful and he’s about to burn it all down.
The pics provide her tons of leverage on more than one level (for one, she knows perfectly well Roman is so screwed up in his head about sex that threatening to expose his dick to the world is a huge mindfuck to him), but as to power imbalance, it absolutely swung against her there despite her title at the time. Logan was still alive, everyone knew he was the one actually still in charge (and still owned the company at which she was employed), still controlled the Board, and his then-favored son was constantly sending her dick pics. Especially with Logan dead and unable to claim otherwise, she can easily support the contention that she felt threatened and unable to speak out to stop it. Hell, knowing that was but one of the reasons Logan got so mad at Roman in the first place when he mistyped.
The problem is that she was an active participant for a while. Due to the fact she was, on paper and legally, the CEO of the company it’s a really hard argument to make that there was a power imbalance and if anything she was having an affair with a subordinate. No one can make the argument that he coerced her into a relationship. You could make the argument he went on too far but given the nature of the relationship you can just as easily argue that she’s extorting him for money. If instead of Roman, Shiv entered into a D/s relationship with a competent company CEO serving in her dad’s stead there is 0% anyone would think that she coerced him into it.
The Roy’s would never let this go to a formal hearing or tribunal, or even allow Gerri to make a legal claim. This would all be settled with Gerri getting what she asked because the reputation to the Roy’s legacy is worth a lot more than a boat load of money. Their name is the company. Extortion or not, it would never make it to that stage of consideration because they would not want this to become public knowledge.
Ebba is brought around a lot in the same way as Karolina is. She’s the comms and PR director and was invited by Shiv as they are sort of there on official business.And how it is a dumb way to ruin Matteson when we’ve been seeing this play out in real life as far as young, tech hot shots turning out to be total frauds like Elizabeth Holmes, Charlie Javice, etc? And between this post, and others you’ve made, you seem to be under the false impression that willingly sending pics of your genitals to your co-workers through text messages is acceptable under any context. Roman is the loser here by violating firm policy on a basic and simple level. If Roman were one of us normal people, he would be fired on the spot regardless of the explanation.
I’m not under the impression it’s okay to do that – I’m under the impression that in this highly specific example she invited it and benefited from it while always being in a position of power. She was the first one to call him a slime puppy on the phone during management training, he jerked off in her bathroom at Tern Haven – as General Counsel she should know these aren’t things you should be doing with a board member/COO – she’s not some doe eyed innocent victim here.
There is no hard evidence of all of the things you are saying Geri did, but there is hard evidence of Roman sending pictures of his genitals to her when did she not directly ask or solicit for it. If you’re saying and agree that it’s not okay to do that and that he took things too far, then what exactly are you arguing? Roman is the one who committed that auto-fireable/resignation offense that the company and the public will find repulsive and will effectively destroy his reputation. That’s how and why Gerri has the leverage here.
Oh for sure Shiv is completely incompetent. When she was pitching herself to Matson saying she knew the company inside and out I was like HOW! She only worked at the company for like 5 minutes and during that whole time people just tolerated her because she’s the boss’ daughter even though she obviously had no idea what was going on or what she was doing. Every time she was in the room while the people who actually worked there were making decisions it was abundantly clear that she doesn’t know nearly as much as she thinks she does and she’s nowhere near ready to lead that company. Her and Kendall are tied for Every Single Idea Was Bad. Both of their records are 0 wins. Roman could be competent if he grew up.
Compare her to her brothers this season….look how easily she sees through them every time they try to go behind their back and bullshit her, and look how they hold her in such low regard that they don’t even realize how close she’s getting to Matsson. In terms of thoughtfulness and forward-thinking, she laps both of them over and over. Is she anywhere near as smart as she thinks she is? No, and this episode shows it again (here she is being played by Matsson the same way she got played by Logan, except this time she doesn’t have daddy-blinders as an excuse), but she seems pretty clearly better than they are at a lot of this.The dick pics are unsolicited. There is still certainly a power imbalance there, although in this case it’s subtler than it usually is, but power imbalance or no it is still harassment and an obvious scandal to repeatedly send unsolicited dick pics to a coworker.
The Ebba thing makes such little sense that I’ve wondered whether Mattson is playing some long con here to tank the deal himself and make Waystar buy him out of GoJo. He keeps dropping these damning details about himself, as does Ebba… it’s just too much.
Asked this above thread but I’m probably in the greys – did you catch Matsson touching Ebba in the background during Roman & Connor’s confrontation?
I did not. That’s certainly interesting, though I wonder if it was just an ad lib to further show what a creep Matsson is…
That was my thought.
Matsson wants to ride off into the sunset with his billions of dollars and his Twitter account, and doesn’t like dealing with the minutiae of running a huge, international business (which Waystar-Gojo would be, to a larger extent than either of them are at the moment). So, he sandbags the value of GoJo, convinces the brothers to complete the deal, but with Waystar buying Gojo, instead of the other way around, and then he lets them deal with the bullshit in India and the other problems that will inevitably arise.
Did anyone catch Matsson holding Ebba’s shoulder & touching her neck while he sat on the windowsill in the background of Roman & Connor’s confrontation?
I did – I think everything is a weird little game that they play with each other. Just a game to make the sex good – an inverse Tom and Shiv
I think Gerri has massively overplayed her hand here. The firm is always more powerful than she is. The only leverage she truly has is to go whistleblower which blows everything up. She acts like the dick pics are some actual leverage… she was General Council, there’s virtually no power imbalance there. Actually at the time of the affair she was CEO… like in what world does she think this is super embarrassingLogan was still chairman of the board, presumably the largest individual shareholder, and his son was sending the newly-minted (and thus only female CEO) pictures of his dick.
There’s a huge power imbalance there that you seem to be ignoring because of a mere job title. CEOs get pushed out all the time, but it’s much, much harder to push out the family that owns the company, even if the son is a lecherous little dipshit.
Not sure if you’re trolling or not. CEO of a company that’s represented to be the size of Disney is not a “mere title”. Logan may have been the largest shareholder but he wasn’t that large – that would be the Roy Family Trust where his four kids didn’t agree with him.
Disney’s most recent CEO before Bob Iger returned got bounced out less than a year from when he started. Simply being CEO of a major company doesn’t come with the power you think it does, especially for a company that, unlike Disney, family shareholders play a major role in not just ownership, but also the day-to-day running of the business. So again, you’re mistaken if you think that the interim CEO, a woman, receiving dick picks from the son of the founder/chairman of the company (and a son who also works at the company and is a board member), is somehow no big deal. CEOs with significant tenure at the helm have been bounced for much, much less (such as Jeff Zucker).
Not only that, but the shareholders knew that Gerri was a figurehead. Gerri herself knew that she was a figurehead. The thing about figureheads is that they don’t have the actual power, irrespective of what their title might lead you to believe.
Also, the kids don’t have control over the trust. They can’t unilaterally sell their shares unless there’s a takeover offer (such as the GoJo deal), or if Logan offers to buy them (which is what he offered Kendall in Season 3). Further, the backhand deal that Logan made with Caroline in the last episode of Season 3 restricts the kids even further, in that Logan no longer needed a supermajority to go along with the GoJo deal.
Gerri doesn’t have leverage over Roman from a sexual harassment perspective, but can paint him as an unhinged perv who has no business as co-CEO of a publicly-traded company that’s in the middle of a potential sale. That’s the type of thing that could force a board of directors vote to remove him from the position and torpedo his career.
That balcony fight was legitimately hard to watch. It felt so much like a real fight, with two people shouting past each other in their desperation to validate their own pain.
If you like “so real it hurts” marital fights, may I recommend Before Sunrise. Every bit as tactically precise as last night, but it last for 29 minutes. It’s brutal.
You mean Before Midnight? Before Sunrise has a VERY different tone.
Yes! Midnight. Thank you for the correction. I love the whole trilogy (and all of Linklater’s work) and am embarrassed to have goofed that.
Oh man…I saw that one in theaters and wanted to shout out and beg them to stop before it became irreversible. Talk about walking it right up to the point of no return.
Watch Scenes from a Marriage. Brutal doesn’t even cover it.
Then watch Scenes From An Idiot’s Marriage…
“Like” might not be the word I’d choose.
The writing in this show (and this episode in particular) is fantastic. Whether or not you think people actually talk that way, it makes for engrossing theater, much like the soliloquies of “West Wing” or the crisp walk-and-talks of the original “Law and Order” . (SVU always looked like bad high school theater to me …)
The standout lines that the author highlighted in their postscript from just this episode, are better than three seasons worth of attempts from “Mrs. Maisel.” Some writers have it and some don’t. “Succession” writers have it in spades.And man-oh-man, the direction, cinematography and editing to pull of this haphazard documentary-feel, while actually crafting beautiful, subtly framed and moving shots throughout nearly any scene. It’s just brilliant TV, which gets lost on some people because nearly every character in the show is an asshole. Some fans want to have a fantasy relationship with a favorite character or the show can’t work for them. You see that misplaced passion whenever you criticize something, and I mean constructive criticism like a critic does – not ranting insults, and the fanboys lose their shit in the comments because you aren’t fawning over their favorite at all times. (See anything “Star Wars” related).
There’s never been two consecutive hours of TV better than “Succession” followed by “Barry”. Gonna miss them when they’re done.
Agreed. I was initially resistant to Succession because I misapprehended that it was just wealth porn for finance bros but I finally gave it a shot and it’s incredible. I’ve always loved Bill Hader so Barry was an easy sell. What a wildly creative show, and man, it is simultaneously the darkest and funniest show on TV.
I’ve said it before, the show’s great original idea was have none of the people involved, family or senior execs, be actually capable of succeeding a barbarian like Logan.
That balcony scene was incredible. Both the writing and acting were top-notch
“Hey, I’m about to take a shit in your husband’s mouth, and I’m pretty sure he’s gonna tell me it tastes like coq au vin.”This was a great line and botched by the person writing subtitles…”tastes like coconut”
We get it, 99.999% of “journalists” are Liberals. But three separate pathetic jabs at the Right are a bit much. Stick to recapping the show and leave your obvious political leanings out of it please.
Like, regardless of my politics, Succession in an aggressively leftist show that is in part about politics. Most of the Roys actively mock their own anchors, viewers, and specifically Mencken as Nazis. I’m just reporting on the text of the show.
The Roys mock their viewers the same way the Murdochs mock theirs. I’d say the show has a bias toward reality.
Your fragility is showing
I love how these guys always pop in to tell us how their little fee fees are hurt, but don’t stick around long enough for the response because they’re too fragile to handle being called out.
Have you ever watched this show?
LOL. Don’t worry all us “libruls” mock you GOP cultists relentlessly all the time. Just let the fact that you and you entire crusade of fuckbois are nothing but a cruel “patiot culture” joke to the rest of us, marinate in that thick head of yours for the rest of your life. We ARE laughing at you, in public and in private all the time. 24 fucking 7.
Won’t somebody please think of the Nazis??
I bet you got mad at Rage Against the Machine for saying they hated Trump.
I’ll start this by saying I’m more conservative than most of the commenters around here, and my take on AIN is that Logan has knowingly built an empire that staffs caricatures of conservative pundits and backs the candidates that best align with what his most ardent viewers want to see. He may have started with some degree of political sincerity but clearly figured out where the money is. The man was nothing if not practical. AIN is a profit-maximizing product and nothing more.
The existential sorrow I feel, knowing that if Trump gave someone a brick of his frozen blood, his followers would justify and eventually trumpet it. It’s too much for a Monday morning.
Or if Elon Musk did the same thing…
Familiar with Bill Clinton?
Or if Joe Biden secretly met with foreign nationals in the White House while VP to get kickbacks on his son’s illegal dealings…………….
Sure thing. I hear he was riding a hacked Dominion voting booth like Slim Pickens when this happened. Cool fanfic.
That makes no sense. When a president or vice-president leaves office, they can legally make tons of easy money (speeches, being on corporate boards, etc). There would be no need to take short money and risk being caught.
“Although, I won’t lie: For half a second, I thought Tom might send himself over a balcony railing by the end.”
Same. I didn’t think it was likely, but it sure seemed possible.
When Tom yelled, “I asked you to marry me because I LOVED you!” I finally understood the full extent of the damage Shiv’s parents caused. She can’t comprehend that anyone would genuinely love her.
HBO subtitles translated “tastes like coq au vin” to “tastes like coconut”. 😉
In an earlier episode, didn’t Tom basically suggest to Shiv they toss it all and just go off to an island together? I always got the impression Tom was more about Shiv, and the power-money thing was (initially) more to impress her / equalize their relationship until that went sour.
By the end of the episode, I started thinking that the GoJo issues were too easy for the Roys. I think Matson is purposefully seeding false information to them to get them to over extend and then wipe them out. It’s the constant problem with the Roy kids (and I think why their father said they weren’t serious people), they play checkers while everyone they’re up against is playing chess. They can’t think past the next move they want to make. If Shiv abandons Matson, I’m guessing Greg will end up CEO.
“Matson is purposefully seeding false information”When it comes to a business sale and information pertaining to financials, you know that’s illegal right? It’s securities and financial fraud. How is that outsmarting the Roys?
The show hasn’t historically gone in for that kind of twisty intrigue – in fact what’s fun is the slow-motion train wreck of a lot of the plotlines, with logical conclusions to stupid behavior and decisions. I feel there’s a bunch of “well what the hell did you think would happen??” in this show, which is frankly refreshing. I think it’s entirely possible that Matson’s air of cool genius is more put-on than we were led to believe in the early going, and he’s as prone to exaggeration to hype his business as many other so-called tech masterminds.
Okay, I’ve got a prediction: someone was recording Greg talking about his indifference in firing people, and it’s going to get leaked.Greg’s only two traits on display this season are that he’s a Disgusting Brother (TM) and that he leaks stuff, and the latter is so widely known that Kendall knowingly used Greg as a leak earlier this season.I’ve thought that this season ends with none of the kids having a viable path to the top, and they all get ousted. This is how Greg and Tom ultimately get kicked.
Disgusting Brothers for the WIN!!!!!
Connor’s upcoming album cover
“…is coming apart at the seams under the pressures of running a right-wing news network that might literally be destroying the country”That seemed to me to be the least of what was making him so sleepy and out of it— I read it more as the combination of the effects of a Man-Of-A-Certain-Age having a lot of sex and the stress of his marriage and the stress of trying to hold on to power; ATN and what it’s doing to The Republic were the least of his worries.
This is fair! Tom’s getting pushed from a couple of different angles and all the ones you listed are almost certainly more pressing for him. Seeing Shiv and her new “boyfriend” joke about destroying Tom’s life, with her old boyfriend, was the lethal blow.
Agree – he was legitimately wiped and being made to feel yet again like the butt of the joke. Bedtime.
neither of them seem to be giving her even the bare minimum of thought it would require to notice she’s blatantly betraying them at this point.Ken and Roman are briefing Shiv on all their important conversations, so I don’t know what you mean. Yes, they are each going around making individual moves, but for the big picture stuff, they’re keeping her involved as an important voice, just like they agreed. Also, maybe I’m missing something, but Shiv’s fling Nate being someone this important all of a sudden, threw me a little.
It’s cute, because you seem to have the same myopic “bare minimum of thought” about Shiv that Ken and Rome give towards their sister – that she should be okay with simply continued involvement in THEIR schemes as an important voice, and that her potential “individual moves” could not possibly include seeking higher position / rewards from the handsome swiss psychopath through strategic sharing of information, which they could easily head off at the pass by offering her ACTUAL equality, in the form of rewards equal to the titles they themselves have claimed. Lastly, yeah… insisting upon inviting the man your sister cheated on your brother in law with to a party at their house is beyond a reasonable calculated risk, it’s showing through your actions that none of her messy business matters to you IN HER OWN HOME in the face of some vague political gain that you think you may be able to realize by inviting him.
Sorry, but do Kendall and Roman know that Shiv cheated with Nate? I wouldn’t put it past them being awful enough that it wouldn’t make a difference, but for some reason I thought they just knew of him as an old boyfriend.
Kendall and Roman updated her on about half of what they covered. Then they immediately walked away and started scheming again without telling her the scheme while they were in full view of her.They’re keeping her outside the circle and they’re not good at it. Roman is also getting kind of suspicious with his “Happy, Happy Headbangers” line knowing that they’re all lying and maneuvering behind his back.
Nate is chief of staff or deputy Chief of staff to the Democratic Party’s candidate (or VP – im not sure is Gil the candidate? or VP candidate) having previously been his chief political advisor
I would’ve taken a full letter grade off the episode score because none of the characters fell out of a window like Kristen Johnston in Sex and the City.
We were absolutely meant to have the “is Tom going to jump?” thought — the lingering camera was perfectly engineered to create that tension. Mad Men did similar teases with Don Draper. The Mattson-Kendall showdown was fantastic. Kendall kept his cool and actually ribbed Mattson on his real weakness, leaving Mattson to go all-in on a childish gay “joke.” It was the first time his veneer failed. He came off silly and embarrassing for the first time.Also, it was great to learn Mattson cannot code, despite that, earlier in the episode he tells Shiv that he identifies as a “dirtbag coder.” Mattson’s toxic kids table was very fun to watch.
I’m a little surprised how blithely the boys are taking Shiv into their confidence – even being blinkered nepo baby idiots, there has to be some lizard-brain self preservation there after essentially cutting Shiv out from the top spot. If nothing else, R&S know betrayal, selfishness, back-biting and so forth.
Because I think the deal is that they kill the GoJo deal, buy out Pierce then Shiv runs Pierce.
I genuinely think everyone is completely overlooking Ebba’s potential brilliance as a PR director, and her possible role in shaping a narrative that actually favors her boss, potentially up to and including this crazy shit about blood and hair – if she is not good at parties, then perhaps her skill lies in using false information strategically leaked. What is the upside for Maddson if the India thing is 100% manufactured and the numbers are in fact fine?
I’m not sure there’s any upside to that. Everyone already thinks he’s a brilliant, money-printer. So creating a narrative where he isn’t, but actually he IS wouldn’t gain him much. Unless it’s a misdirect from some other bad thing going on at his company?
Yeah, agree… can’t see any upside.
Upon reflection, since Ebba’s brilliance at PR created his money-printing image, so her leaking the India dirt is her taking revenge.
Not that I support the idea that it’s a ploy but he says he hates shorts. So weak numbers could be leaked to encourage people to short heavily only for it be proven that the numbers were correct and the shorts to lose their shirts.
Why does everyone assume Ebba is telling the truth about GoJo’s numbers? And why did everyone assume Lukas was truthful about sending Ebba his blood? Why would Lukas tell someone that and why would he keep Ebba around when he knows she’s a potential liability? I’m still convinced they’re bullshitting as part of their plan.
I bet Greg will end up being the one to fire Tom if Mattson ends up acquiring Waystar lol.
I think the last shot of the show will be Greg without a job, wandering out of the AIN building on to a NYC street and looking around with a confused “well what now?” look on his face (which we’ve all seen from him before). This whole thing has been like some sort of fever dream for that guy given where he started.
Mattson’s grinning bearded sycophant has been great. I was glad he got to come to New York. He brings a very sinister, slimy, Swedish vibe to every scene he’s in.
GoJo is, indeed, in trouble, with flaky subscription numbers that would only make sense if there were “two Indias” to support that many customers. I don’t understand how this is a secret. Like I assume it’s a problem because they publicly released these false numbers. So how did nobody outside GoJo think “wait, there aren’t that many people in India?”
It’s not the number of people in India, it’s the number of people who would actually be inclined to subscribe.
Oh. Then why not just say that everyone in India would have had to subscribe. Doesn’t seem like you need two Indias, just an unrealistically high adoption rate.
Because that’s how humans talk? In this case, they are expressing the gravity/scale of the problem by expressing it in terms of needing a whole other India.
Fair enough, I guess I took them too litterally.
William thanks again for another excellent review. Really great work
Am I the only one who has noticed Roman’s fashy haircut? Surely this can’t be an accident.
Roman has pretty much always looked like a Proud Boy.
I love how Succession has used its settings this season. Logan’s house for the wake, Shiv and Tom’s house for this episode. It’s amazing watching so much happen so quickly packed into (relatively) small spaces. It feels like you’re in a pressure cooker. It makes the quick dialogue more real.
“Oman: a poor man’s Saudi Arabia. Or, a rich man’s Yemen.” Perfection.
That whole running sideline discussion was gold.
Don’t know if anyone has mentioned this, but wasn’t it Trump Hotel and Tower that Roman was entering at the beginning of the episode where the four siblings met for lunch?
My OCD will not allow me to leave this show unwatched, since I binged through the first three. Cox was a one-note villain, but you could blame it on age, cantankerousness, and all that. The show lost the wind in its sails when Logan kicked the can. Now I just hate-watch to finish it off.No character is likeable, except for maybe the kid who did not hit the homerun in season one. That’s a long time to watch deplorable people who never change. Kendall has moments where the show wants him to change, but he course corrects soon after. Shiv and Roman have been the same since the first episode. I’ll be glad to leave Shiv’s surprised looks to the side behind (always accompanied by a sigh), as well as Roman’s half sentences and stupid dialogue. Poor Greg—in no world would he ever have left the theme parks. He’s such an idiot I think the fact—even in obvious satire—that he is anywhere close to employed anywhere is a huge fault of the show.Guess which Logan kid this gem could come from:“Yeah, I… uh, sure, yeah. Umm, yeah, it’s, uh, yeah. Mmm hmm.”Literally any of them. This show took no chances, except killing off Logan. And somehow it suffered because of it.If this show ends in any way other than the entire family blowing up in the family jet, I will be highly disappointed.
Connor, on visiting their dad: “The weird thing is how much…he’s not there. I find that consoling.” You probably understand this to be a jab at the horrible character Logan has been, and given that most people in showbiz are nihilist atheists you’re likely right, but as someone whose much loved father died recently, I had the exact same sincere experience: seeing his body laid out, it was obvious that his soul wasn’t there anymore, and that *was* very consoling.