Succession’s third season premieres with a smidge too much self-awareness
Don’t worry, the season-three premiere, “Secession,” still sees astonishingly awful people being astonishingly awful to each other.
TV Reviews Succession
It has been 735 days since we first watched Kendall Roy (Jeremy Strong) deliver the “But” meant to dethrone daddy Logan (Brian Cox) in Succession season two finale “This Is Not For Tears,” and a lot has happened since October 13, 2019. But who cares about the past two years in the real world? It was awful! Instead, let’s soothe ourselves by diving into the glorious acidity, curdling toxicity, and subversive flirtation of a Jesse Armstrong script, all qualities of which remain in “Secession,” this third season premiere that picks up a few hours after “This Is Not For Tears” ended. All of that is well and good, especially now that we have a definitive “Gerri (J. Smith-Cameron) is Roman’s (Kieran Culkin) boss” dynamic. Slash fic writers, start your engines.
What is a bit concerning, though: Does “Secession” seem a little too self-aware of the champing-at-the-bit hype in which this series is now ensconced? Judging by my highly biased Twitter account, it felt like everyone jumped on the Succession train in the past two years. During this episode, it also feels like Armstrong knows that, and is leaning (slightly extraneously) into it.
Everything seems amped up in a slightly performative way. Kendall and Logan trading barbs pulled from fairy tales through Kendall’s assistant Jess (Juliana Canfield, who also plays Beth on the hopefully-not-forever canceled Y: The Last Man). Greg’s (Nicholas Braun) pandering obeisance and stammering ignorance as he dealt with social media and his mom’s credit card. “Full beast” acting as a remix of “boar on the floor.” Shiv (Sarah Snook) and Tom’s (Matthew Macfadyen) gender-swapped recreation of Han Solo and Leia’s “I love you”/“I know” exchange.
All of these moments deliver the visceral discomfort and aghast enjoyment we’ve come to expect from this series. But they also seem less like original-flavor Succession and more like a tongue-in-cheek satire of Succession.
Still, “Secession” is a solid introduction into the next chapter of Roy family backstabbing, and I mean “Roy family” in particular. Succession briefly incorporated “regular” people at the end of season two as all the cruises allegations blew up. But “Secession” is all the Roys, and only the Roys and their various hangers-on. “No real person involved” was an immoral classification that Waystar Royco employees used casually and often, and “Secession” crawls inside the insularity that leads to that kind of nonchalance.
These are all astonishingly awful people being astonishingly awful to each other, and I appreciate how there is very little here with which to sympathize. If you fist-pumped at Kendall taking on Logan at the end of last season, “Secession” is a reminder that he is just as narcissistic, self-obsessed, self-pitying, and delusional as the rest of the Roys. Strong’s big ol’ smile when Kendall joked to Greg, “Who said I never killed anyone?” Horrifying!
The Roys are always telling on themselves (Roman calling himself a fuckup, Shiv and her threesome suggestions), and Kendall isn’t automatically a good person just because he’s challenging Logan. But is he a better person than Roman or Shiv or Gerri or Connor (Alan Ruck) or Karl (David Rasche) or Karolina (Dagmara Dominczyk), or any of the people who stand by Logan, who is very much—as Kendall said during that press conference—“a malignant presence, a bully, and a liar”?
Ethical questions are mostly ancillary to Succession. Succession is about power and access and how access to power corrupts and complicates, and Logan and Kendall have always been at the center of that in all their love, hate, jealousy, and resentment. Recurring Succession director Mark Mylod, who also helmed “This Is Not For Tears,” thrusts us right next to father, son, and their respective “action stations” (lol) as “Secession” begins, and the episode’s familiar visual style (quick cuts, rapid zooms) works to keep things steadily disconcerting.
The fallout from Kendall’s statement is immediate, but my man clearly didn’t think this through. Did he really think he could go back to his office in Waystar Royco and everything would be fine? Does he truly believe what he says to Karolina about “acting in the best interest of the company”? I suppose he has to, because Kendall wants to be a hero. This is Kendall wanting to depose Logan because Logan is wrong and bad and abusive, not just because Kendall wants to take over because he thinks Logan’s health is failing, or because he thinks he’s owed it.
He’s been motivated before by those reasons and they didn’t pay off, but now he has rightness and “the soul of the company” on his side! Strong is excellent at careening between emotional extremes, and he gets a lot of opportunity this episode as Kendall looks to everyone for affirmation of his choices: at Greg, at reporters, at strangers at Twitter, at Karolina (who doesn’t pass the test, and gets kicked out of the SUV), at Rava (Natalie Gold), at Naomi Pierce (Annabelle Dexter-Jones), who Kendall now says he loves, and finally, at newcomer Lisa Arthur (Sanaa Lathan).
Attorney Lisa is a big damn deal, and she—like Holly Hunter’s Rhea Jarrell—is another woman who the Roys think they can convince to abandon their ideals for the right price. But unlike Rhea, Lisa doesn’t fall for what Logan, or (former) friend Shiv, are offering. She sticks by Kendall, and she’ll help him take on Daddy. This woman defended trafficked sex workers before and Logan thought she would defend him? And Shiv, high on being able to intimidate that whistleblower Kira (Sally Murphy), thinks she can waltz into Lisa’s office and do the same thing? You sweet summer child. The lack of self-awareness, I love it.
But Logan’s side is spiraling, so I understand the desperation. When “Secession” begins, while Kendall is making moves from inside that SUV alongside Greg and Karolina, Logan is with everyone else, trying to put together a list of extradition-less places around the world to which they can decamp. Can they leverage their relationship with the President? Gerri tries, but bumps up against the Department of Justice. What should they do about Kendall? Roman suggests the “mentally ill… He’s insane” attack (which raises the question of whether Logan would ever leak what really happened the night of Shiv’s wedding).
While Roman is fine throwing Kendall under the bus, though, he doesn’t really have what it takes to be CEO quite yet; his insistence that he could do it felt half-hearted compared with his sponsorship of Gerri. And Shiv for some reason continues to have a scrap of faith that Logan will hand the company over to her; it’s never going to happen, Shiv! So instead, Gerri is named interim CEO, with Logan breathing down her neck and looking over her shoulder (and wandering the streets of Sarajevo, potentially?). Is anyone paying enough attention to see whatever is going on between Roman and Gerri? And, more importantly: Would anyone really care that Roman is ready for “Crone-y Time”?
I suppose there are larger issues at play than their thirsty flirtations. Oh, just the future of Waystar Royco, and Kendall’s place in the Roy family, and whether Frank flips sides to join his one-time mentee, and whether Shiv ever realizes that Logan is endlessly stringing her along, and whether that disastrous rocket launch for which Roman was responsible gets him in trouble. And yeah, the blood on Kendall’s hands, and on Logan’s and Marcia’s (Hiam Abbass), too (because she was involved in that coverup and brought in her son Amir, played by Darius Homayoun, right?). “This rabbit hole of bitterness” is how Gerri described Kendall’s grudge against his father, and this seems like a season-long journey to me. Let’s fall down it together.
Stray observations
- If Roman and Gerri don’t actually hook up this season, what are we even doing?
- However: “I’d lay you badly, but I’d lay you gladly” is the kind of line that online-dating nightmares are made of.
- Shiv’s high-waisted pants: still there, still spectacular.
- In the season-two finale, Kendall said during the press conference that he had copies of Waystar Royco documents bearing Logan’s signature and proving his involvement in various coverups, which I took to mean that they were copies provided by Greg. But Greg tells Karolina, “I had no prior warning … But now I am obviously concerned and interested to hear more,” which of course is crap, right? (Karolina seems to assume that, given her disbelieving “OK” and accompanying smirk.)
- Is Connor still running for president? While he’s holding down the Balkans?
- No comment on whether Greg could have broken down that hotel door.
- Where is Stewy?!
- Rava has the patience of a saint when dealing with all of Kendall’s shenanigans, but that whole wine-bottle subplot was a weird, muddled way to cheaply position Rava and Naomi against each other.
- Best line of the episode: Tie between “I got fired, he got fired, she got promoted, I got rehired, she got demoted, right?” and “We can find them. They’re… on Twitter.”
- Best back and forth: You would think it’s Logan’s “You want to suck my dick?” and Roman’s “…Is what he said to his son as the sexual assault allegations poured in.” But actually, it’s Roman and Shiv’s discussion about what they’re actually thinking about whether Logan is “toast.” All of Snook’s and Culkin’s intonations and inflections in that scene were a master class in fractional degrees of nuance.
- Karl “really feels he needs a sandwich,” and that is why I love him.
- Of course Kendall is a fan of BoJack Horseman. Nothing has made more sense.
- Actually, I take that back: Kendall saying “I’m your puppet” is what makes the most sense.
254 Comments
L to the OG.Let’s make a Tomlette
I hear that requires breaking a few Gregs
You once sent him the same email 67 times in one evening.
Best phone call ever:Kendall: “Shiiiivvvv…Shivvy Shivvy Shiv…..”LMAO
I think you mean “Siiiiobbbb… Siobby Siobby Siobbb”
No, he means “Shiiiivvvv…Shivvy Shivvy Shiv…..” That’s the official shorthand for her name!
This is a weird hill to die on. People named John who go by Jack must drive you crazy.
John is a name. Jack is also a name. Shiv is not.And I’m not really dying on a hill. It’s fine. I’m being a very deliberate and largely benign troll. No hard feelings.
HBO has used the shortened “Shiv” in their official press releases and branding for the show, so methinks you should prob find another pedantic hill to die on.
Yes please!
It’s like you didn’t even read.
My, goodness…!You’ve been answered properly in recent times.Please consider genuinely retracting your culture-supremacy you’ve laced around all this commenting-board/-forum.
1) Kinja doesn’t work that way.2) Even if it did, fuck you no. I guess you’re like all those respondents who didn’t read. I acknowledged the pedantry in the original post. I wasn’t “answered properly”, I was ignored. Fair enough, it’s a minor pedantic quibble. You thinking I got dunked on? Nah. Shit on that. Go screw, numbnuts.
1) I already understand that. Consider Twitter® for instance, I’ve a self-imposed artificial timeframe to delete my tweet[s] and pay a revised-draft in stead under it. But even though Kinja® does have an “edit” button and my self-imposed timeframe for the former and YouTube® is considerably shorter( 20% of the time-limit permitted in Kinja®), so what’s the bottom-line™? Well.. When I asked you to humbly retract, I didn’t mean “wipe off your prior posts off the face of this one-&-only Planet!”, I simply thought you were “commonsensible” enough to add an _addendum_ to wherever you were harping about the pet-name you believe is a literal-contraction of “Siobhan”. And That’s The Bottom Line™…!2) Yikes! Well.. I won’t add anything to your potty-mouthed frustration except that I was simply referring to my own reply, irrespective of whether your belief that I read the replies of fellow commenters to you being rooted in ground-realities — or not. The comment you replied it is meant to be focused specifically on your “…Shiv is not” part. To hold your fingers and spell-out what I previously delivered, in spite of your abrasiveness: ‘Shiv’ is both a legitimate first-/given-name for cismen. As well as a legitimate contraction of names for ciswomen. Now, if you were to start harping about myth dubbed “Judeo-Christian because white” somesuch, then I can’t( read won’t) help you in that “department”.
Just finished the episode, and it was the best hour of television I’ve watched in a while.I’m normally hesitant to get into any of the premium channels shows because I think they are overhyped, but Succession is worth my HBO sub.
LOL. You have more money than me, this is why I resisted White Lotus and didn’t reinstate until today.
All I could think about with Karl was “YOU CAN’T SKIP LUNCH!” and how in the next scene he’d be eating a hot dog from his sleeve.
Is Connor still running for president? While he’s holding down the Balkans?no, he quit the race after accepting Logan’s $100m cash offer. they made a deal on the boat in the S2 finale.
also, Roman and Gerri will never “hook up” (at least not in the traditional sense) because their sexual relationship is entirely predicated on non-consummation; it’s a pretty classic dynamic. soooo, maybe don’t hold your breath for that one. 😆
Also I think predicated on Gerri being the dominant, which she’d give up if she actually slept with him. (I think she’s aware of this dynamic but Roman isn’t)
i literally just said that my dude. (…and for the record, if you think Roman isn’t in on it too, you don’t understand how that dynamic works. he knew she’d never take him up on his offer; he gets off on the rejection.)
PS: it’s unrelated to this discussion of a fictional TV relationship, but you can absolutely be a dominant and have sex with submissives without “giving anything up.” it happens every day. that’s just… not what’s happening here, exactly.
Roman doesn’t want to be dominated, per se – he wants to be loathed. But also, he really, really wants to not win. His entire life, people have been giving him things too easily, which he feels he doesn’t deserve, and which makes him feel contemptuous of the people who roll over to give him everything just because of his surname. I think he’s the embodiment of Groucho’s “I’d never want to join any club willing to accept me as a member” line: so long as women reject him and stand up to him, he can admire and desire them, but once they give in (making him feel they’re whores who want his money/power/fame) or, worse, once they actively want him (making him feel they must have terrible, terrible judgment), then they’re no longer worth wanting. So I don’t think he’s really into Gerri controlling him, per se, so much as into him not being able to influence Gerri. I think that if Gerri shows she does want him, in however controlling or humiliating a fashino, Roman’s going to lose interest.But I’m not sure how consciously aware Roman is of all this…
What if she pretends she’s a dead body?
I don’t think it was quite that clear. Logan offered him the financial help if he would give us up his campaign. Connor did not explicitly agree and openly balked at the request in the moment. I expect him to cave, of course, but I think he’s going to have a hell of a resentment about it (perhaps one big enough to get him eventually to Team Kendall).
A lot of stage-setting in this episode— but it was so great to watch the Roys scheme and plot again. Really looking forward to my Sunday evenings now.
Yeah, Roman totally made that call to push Gerri and sabotaged himself on purpose.He only pushes for the job so he isn’t judged for not wanting it.I’m curious about the opening credits, do they change by the episode and I haven’t noticed?Because Marcia’s absence from the was noticeable, especially considering all the people who are in there now, like Karl, Karolina and Hugo.
The credits don’t change per episode, they do change per season though. They added J Smith-Cameron last season, and they added the Willa and Karolina actors this year, so they’ve gotten a little longer, and changed up some of the imagery.
The main cast for a show can usually be shuffled between seasons, or when there’s a break in the middle of a season, or when a major character is written off the show (like Andrew Lincoln’s Rick in The Walking Dead). Being part of the main cast, listed during the title sequence, or getting a “starring” mention in the rest of the opening credits is what offers an actor the most benefits, as they usually get paid even if their character doesn’t appear in an episode. It also implies that the cast member can’t do anything else during that time without the producers’ authorization. Then, you have recurring, which usually means that the actor has a deal to make a certain number of appearances in a season or be on set during so many days or weeks, when a character has a definite arc or is just a secondary character. There’s less long term security, but the actor can work on another show or a film, provided there’s no scheduling conflict.And finally, you have guest star. The actor being involved with the show is signed on an episode per episode base. This hierarchy doesn’t necessarily translate into fees. If you’ve got a name actor as a guest star, you may pay them more handsomely than other actors that are recurring or part of the main credits.For Succession, here are the cast changes between seasons:Nataly Gold (Rava, Kendall’s ex-wife) was in the main credits during season 1, then written off season 2, but made at least a guest appearance during the S3 premiere.Dagmara Domińczyk (Karolina, the head of PR at Waystar) and J. Smith Cameron (Gerri) were recurring in S1, then promoted to main cast in S2.Arian Moayed (Stewy) was recurring in S1, promoted to main cast in S2, and is back to recurring for S3.Rob Yang (the head of the Vaulter website) was in the main credits during all of S1 and 2, despite making a single appearance during S2 (IMDb claims he was in two episodes, but I don’t remember him in “Argestes”). Basically, he was originally supposed to be a major character for the show when they developed the pilot and mapped out the first season, but his story line didn’t materialize.Hiam Abbass (Marcia), main cast (S1-2), recurring (S3)Justine Lupe (Willa), David Rasche (Sledge Hammer Carl) and Fisher Stevens (Hugo), promoted to main cast in S3 after previously recurring
I have to admit I’m a bit upset at Stewy being reduced to recurring.
Well..They clearly said he was recurring in the freshman-season, so…..Who knows, it could also be a sign — of sorts?In any case, I was more disheartened by a consistent Regular cast-member being demoted to “recurring” merely based on disappearances in the previous 2 episode( 2-part season 2 finale).
Natalie Gold* (Karl)* There! FTFY 😊BTW..You sound just like myself here. Thanks for the expansion. Although, I would’ve extended it a bit more by clarifying about facets unique to “[premium ]cable”, though.
He will always be Sledge to me.
The Sledgehammer reference gets my star…
Yeah, I was pleasantly surprised at the supporting players getting main opening credits. They’re all wonderful.
Way to go Fisher Stevens!
I hope he sabotaged himself on purpose, because otherwise, what the hell, Roman? Logan seems to actually be hoping Roman can step up.
Honestly, this was a smart play for Roman, even if I’m not sure it was intentional. He stays out of the top position during this shitstorm, but gets Gerri into the top spot, and while I’d assumed she was playing him at first, it actually looks like she has his back and will keep him solidly in the loop on the decision-making. And if Gerri has to step down for whatever reason, he’s perfectly positioned to fill in.
“He only pushes for the job so he isn’t judged for not wanting it.” That seems like complete misreading of the Roman we’ve seen in the first 2 seasons to me? And unless I missed something in the show, Roman fucking himself over during that phone call wasn’t some grand plan to get Gerri to be CEO. It was just Roman fucking himself over because that’s what the Roy kids do when they think their father’s acceptance and approval is within their grasp!
I think Roman thought he wasn’t getting it anyway, so he may as well swing it to Gerri. Plus, his argument was right: he could do with more experience under Gerri’s leadership, AND, as Siobh knows but refuses to accept, being CEO right now is a poisoned chalice anyway. Promoting Gerri is actually the best choice for Roman.[plus, he’s in love with her, so…]
Marcia was noted as being one of Kendall’s allies by Jess.
I don’t think that Roman is self-aware enough to know that he sabotaged himself, but I think he does know he was unlikely to get the position, and decided to make a case for “the rock star and mole woman” dynamic while he had a chance. Mainly, I think he just did want Shiv to get the position.
I love seeing Kendall happy. There is such joy in Jeremy Strong’s performance. When Ken told Rava about Naomi, she seemed okay, but I sensed a change in Rava’s demeanor once she saw Naomi. Makes me wonder if she knew her or knows she’s had drug problems in the past And Lisa! I love that we didn’t know who Lisa was, but we knew she was a big deal and Ken snagged her! I’m so excited for this season!
But it’s only there to show: he’s in way over his head, and he’s an idiot who only gets half the point.
He’s too invested in the trends associated with the media industry as a whole and willfully misunderstands his company’s branding it’s too bound up in his father’s personality.I want to say that’s different than being an “idiot who misses half the point,” but that could be the slowly dying journalism major optimist in me.
I think it’s also there to show… well, I don’t want to be crude and say it shows he’s a drug addict, but I think it’s there to show that Kendall has problems controlling his moods and impulses, and that as a result he has a habit of recklessly chasing after whatever appears to offer happiness in the moment. He’s absolutely terrified and horrified – hence his panic/paralysis in the bathroom – and to stave that off he’s leaping into the mania of what he’s doing with both feet, because if he lets himself slow down, or calm down, he’ll be right back there again. He’s happy, but it’s a desparate happiness. I think in many ways this manic “righteous vehicle” and everything he imagines he could do, or be (the best person in the world! the Pope’s twitter friend!) as a result of it, is serving the same purpose for him that drugs have served in the past…
Yeah, all his overexcitement – the drama! the women! – shows he’s not a real player. So far his strategizing has amounted to… get a lawyer, have someone see what people are saying online and… order in?
I don’t think Rava was ever OK with anything – she’s essentially in a hostage situation at this point. She just tries to look like she’s OK when Kendall is looking at her (because “be happy… or else” is basically how Roy relationships work…)
“be happy and proud for me like you love me” too – so abusive…
I think Rava’s genuinely happy Kendall finally stood up to his abusive dad and she is willing to accept some level of annoyance over that, but she has her limits and Kendall is approaching them fast.
Happy? The man is desperately trying to act out the self-aggrandizing movie in his head and seems manically headed towards a relapse.
i read it as much more manic than happy.
I love how, after the back-on-his-heels Kendall of season two, we’re reminded of how self-destructive and into his own hype the Kendall of season one was.
I love seeing Kendall happy. There is such joy in Jeremy Strong’s performance. hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha, oh boy. whew. lot to unpack here.sweetheart, this is called a manic episode fueled by cocaine and hubris. that boy has not been happy for a single day in his whole miserable life.
Agreed, and Strong is doing an amazing job. Seeing him convince himself that he’s “doing the right thing” and standing up to his evil father was really something. In his mind he’s somehow turned “not wanting to be the fall guy and possibly go to jail” into “I might be the best person there is.” His willingness to believe that the pope followed him on Twitter was great.
There really is nothing more degrading than having someone call you sweetheart. Not that I disagree with your comment, but geez…
I think Rava’s reaction to Naomi may have had less to do with Naomi (at least, before the wine faux pas) and more to do with Kendall’s interrogation about the male razor in her bathroom. She probably would have been able to deal with meeting her ex-husband’s new girlfriend fairly well normally, but Kendall bringing up his own insecurities with HER dating life, entirely unprovoked, put Rava in a defensive posture.
Felt like her change happened when she saw how pretty and blonde Naomi is, and that she was nothing like herself. Rava seems like the type who would have enjoyed seeing her ex with a woman who looked just like her, as it would confirm her belief that he “lost the best thing to happen to him” kind of stuff.
We’ve all known people like that.
https://www.fiverr.com/web_ashiq2019/design-wordpress-website-with-divi-avada-child-or-any-theme
I’ve been rewatching the first 2 seasons over the last week to get reacquainted with all the intricacies. My prediction for the Roman x Gerri situation (and I loved their huddle on the plane, and bedroom scene tonight) is that she will finally give into him late in the season, and that’s when they’ll get found out. Which could result in her getting let go, losing her position, or Logan mentally destroying Roman with some mixture of that and other events. Seeing as how last season was Roman building up his skills and experience, he’s due for a “fall” just like we’ve seen Ken and Shiv incur. I love the Roman and Gerri dynamic, so I hate to see it, but I forsee rough waters ahead.
Interesting theory.Would certainly look very cruel given how tightly “walking-talking lawsuit” Roman slapped his fans/stans by swiftly getting back to simping his “King Jong Pop” Logan, but indisputably not without witnessed precedence re Kendall.However, can’t deny it would be poetic-justice for a hormonally-stunted creature who’s more of a liability in a wannabe-asset.
There is no way this ends well for Kendall. He’s transitioned from dead-eyed puppet to dead-eyed maniac. Everything about him this episode — the way he talks, laughs, pleads with everyone—is completely unhinged. Also, this show really does love putting him next to reflective surfaces. Kind of like a constant reminder of the person he could have been without, you know, his family. On a side note, the pacing felt weird, not the show’s usual slow burn. I don’t know if it can pull off nine episodes of excruciating tension, but I’m hopeful!
Yeah, the explanation of the loop-de-loop logic he’s gonna have to pull to take out Logan while keeping *himself and the company* clean felt pretty bleak. It’s doable, especially if he underscores his multiple coup attempts, but I have doubts.
So ‘murder is worse than genocide’ is a.. well.. in your words, a “loop-de-loop” logic for you?
No, I was talking about how Kendall can claim to have known enough about the malfeasance to drop that bombshell at the press conference but not enough to have taken action on said information. Ken wants to burn Logan but not himself or the company. That feels really unlikely.
Well..So you’re a pessimist, then!Nice to meet you.Join the club.
He’s an addict and this is getting him high.
‘Business is my fucking’
Honestly, if “yesterday’s episode Kendall” was the guy leading the charge, asking me to risk my entire career to take down the head of the company, I’d laugh in his face. That was my one problem with the premiere—-nobody in their right mind would hitch their wagon to the guy who appears to be completely nuts and manic the entire time.Even Greg, easily swayed lapdog, was seriously considering jumping out of the SUV at the beginning.
idk…I’d rather to associated with the manic guy than the NRPI crew
Even Greg, easily swayed lapdog, was seriously considering jumping out of the SUV at the beginning. No, no he was not. Greg is a key player in this whole thing.
Mind-reading?
If Shiv is jumping onto Kendall’s ship then there’s some hope. But yes, this is all so rooted in him still trying to get his fathers respect that it won’t end well for Kendall, but it could end well for Shiv.
Ahh..You’re one of those “smartest of all” fans/stans types, eh? 😏🤭🤭🤣🤣🤣
no are you?
Well..I can’t be a fan/stan of anybody or anything: So who on Earth is “smartest of all” Siobhan Roy?It’s amusing that you only hate that “label”, though.
Well..Could be.(Given their atrocious casting and hiring decisions this season.)Or..Couldn’t be: Maybe, it won’t be “old wine, new bottle” of season 1 this time?
Mostly a table-setting up but it’s Succession and it’s perfect. I love watching a show where you can tell the people working behind the scenes just feel absolutely confident in what they’re putting out there and fully understand the tone they’re going for and the world they’re depicting. And Succession feels like that.Also Kendall in this episode alone. Hoo boy, we are in a ride for him this season. He is heading for a really bad fall isn’t he? I’m sure Strong will kill it. Excited for where Shiv and Roman’s characters are headed this season as well. Also, shout-out to Frank and Karl who brought me so much joy in this episode alone. I’ve grown to love those two I’m not gonna lie.
Carl and Frank going back and forth on each other in the season two finale on why the other should be the one to get fired is so great. I just love how when Frank is suggested he starts with “thank you”And I’ve loved Carl since the panic attack scene in the season 2 premiereLogan: no offence, CarlCarl: none takenLogan: well, some offence, Carl because a better CFO might have seen this fucking disaster comingCarl: ok, no, got it. Offence now takenI love the scenes between him and Logan.
I’m hoping Carl didn’t actually need a sandwich, and that he used that time as an excuse to make some calls…
Karl* There! FTFY 😊
When things start going well for Kendall, he gets way overconfident in his own abilities and destroys himself. It happened right away in the very first episode, which began with him tremendously confident he was buying Vaulter, and saw him utterly humiliated at every turn. It happened when he first tried to take Logan down (remember that one of the things that led to that failure was him confidently making a call to a sick board member to make sure she wouldn’t be able to dial in to the no confidence meeting, which she saw through, which necessitated him flying out to talk to her at the last minute, which meant he wasn’t able to get back in time). It happened when he tried to make that investment in that art startup, when he was sure he was so fucking charming with his “admission” about his dumb sneakers. It happened in England. And, you are right, it is absolutely going to happen here, and the fall is going to be unbelievable.
Well..Weren’t the likes of you saying similar stuff during the events leading upto the part 2 of 2nd season finale( _i.e._ the preceding episode)?But who knows..The project has made some tragic decisions in casting and hiring this season, so therefore: I have grown more critical-eyed than ever.I’m not in this show for a merely-repackaged “family drama”, let alone “sitcom” — I’m spoilt for choices when it comes to either of those genres. So I don’t care about that “debate”, either. And therefore, I have set a deadline that if it would rehash season 1 — I’m gonna bail-out pretty timely, but fairly.
Careful!There’s not a broad daylight between “absolutely confident” and “overconfident”, fellow viewer.
I was just so goddamn glad this show is back I did not hit “skip” on the intro and instead let that glorious theme wash over me.I loved every barb, stammer, eye roll, backstab, dismissal and most especially every explosion by Brian Cox. None if it felt like fan service, it was 100% SUCCESSION and it’s why we’re all back.
Not enough praise goes to the wonderful work by Nicholas Britell as composer. The show massively, massively lucked out in getting him.
Eeeeiiikkk!Your invocation of “lucked out” sounds quite ironical, for some reason.
Yeah, I made the conscious decision to let it ride, knowing there was no informational payoff à la GoT.We’re back, baby!!
To your last paragraph, I would’ve strongly protested about Roman’s graphically-described solution against Kendall but then.. The “walking-talking lawsuit” character is a sheer “knuckle” of a would-be “knucklehead” — so.. Maybe you’re right?
Greg having no clue how to do media analysis was hilarious. “The Pope liked/followed you. Oh, wait. That’s a Pope, not THE Pope.” (This would be me if I suddenly got this job.) Same with Kendall not knowing how to do publicity and talking over the pros. I love this show when these all too fallible, and yes, sympathetic people have their humanity corrupted because they’re in this vulture capitalism world and they have to play by its severe, morally terrible rules. The moments where they show their humanity or feel it in reactions become all the more resonant and impactful. This is basically Succession’s operating system and why it’s so good and popular. Look at Logan’s pained face and outburst over Kendall. Liked both Kendall and Roman calling their sister to banter and make fun.I saw Lisa Edmond’s name in the guest star credits. Since I didn’t see her in the ep, I assume she was the woman at Justice Dept on the phone. If she’s in this season—great!
I agree completely. I’m not ordinarily a fan of horrible protagonists but when done right and with a healthy dose of humanity… I think the show does a great job of balancing the clueless awfulness of the wealthy and the kind of psychological trauma that wealth both generates through privilege and necessitates. It’s much more nuanced than just “Let’s watch bad people do bad shit and get their comeuppance.” (Although there IS an element of that, for sure.)
If Kendall knew how to talk with coherent sentences to Greg, he probably would know what to specifically look for. I’ll be honest, it takes me a moment to get the gist of everything Kendall is communicating. Then poor Greg tries to mirror the strange Roy pidgin back and utterly fails, as usual.
Yes, Kendall speaks in bumper stickers, ‘trending’ topics, catchphrases and business jargon. I’m not sure he understands half of what he should to be in the position he’s in/trying to be in.
The latter sentence is referring to Gregory, right?
No, I’m referring to Kendall. I know he’s been around the company longer than any of his siblings, but I’m not convinced he’s GOOD at the job or really knows what he’s doing.
It’s clear Greg is over his head in EVERY situation, business or otherwise. HAHA!
Well: To each their own, then.Since this is nothing but pure fiction, I also factor in the existence/presence of moral-compass — to consider ‘competence’.Otherwise..Anybody level-headed amongst us can realise that nobody except for, as his fans/stans keep pointing-out, “Logan fucking Roy” is *that* competent. And yes, that certainly does include Siobhan “Shiv” Roy — allegedly “the smartest of all” siblings, as stated by Logan himself, the master-manipulator who, at least it’s clear enough, is partial to her than all other siblings( so far, all of whom are sons) — can’t even come close to holding a candle to him.His biz-strategy is being “class-A hooker”, as stated by Kendall, and he manages to manipulate not just POTUSes but even successfully applies that methodology of his trade to his own family by schmoozing each one of them( unless we start considering Marcia “Marcy” Roy as part of his inner-circle, given whatever she has done hitherto) in corners *without* going out-of-character himself, even. Has Shiv come even remotely-close to mastering the same? Thus far, it appears that the only “political aide”-experienced she has already started faltering in the manipulation department — the one-&-only [evidentiary ]USP of her we’ve got to witness in the series, as yet.
It’s not clear to me; whom has the moral compass, Kendall or Greg? My guess is you’re saying Greg since he’s not complicit in an accidental death.
Ahh..So here it comes!Circling back( nothing to do with incumbent RL junior of the lady on the phone in this episode, yeugh!) to that wildly-misinferred sequence, with the misinference asserted with greater-force by those than the rest who purport to be watching the show devoutly. Whether they label themselves as trite “fan[atic]s”/“st[alking f]an[atic]s” or whatchamacallit.(In an exhibition of unself-awareness, quite ‘a few’ of them also reveal that they “binge[-watch]” bank-of-episodes.)I mean: No offense genuinely intended but I can certainly explain that whole sequence since I got “enough of mind and time” to have processed that[ what-I-call as] ‘reverse _deus ex machina_’ and the one-&-only “complicity” on the RL English law side-of-things based on my educated inference is: Certainly not what you sound to think; nor what this predictably-diluted, formerly-refreshing( read ‘-unstereotypical’) “critic” in G/O® Media’s newcomer in Ms Hadīdī alluded to Logan and Marcy, and her son[ who’s by presumption, also his step-son] Āmir( even if the crystal-clear _malafide_ intent is only on part of would-be “L to the OG”, the latter 2 are also implicated by their fully-wilful, _quid pro quo_ participation in the what-they-intended-as-“coverup”) as “blood” of Andrew “Doddy” Dodds[ who was as publicly as unsurprisingly humiliated by Logan mere hours before his untimely-demise] on their collective “hands.”Hopefully, your response, if any, won’t be on the shortlist of tropes/templates. Including but not limited to, _Continuum_ fallacy.
What the literal fuck are you trying to say and why are all of your comments like this dude??
Ouch!Why so potty-mouthed?You trying to be Logan’s id or somesuch, yet-to-be-approved commenter in Ms “Lily Rutledge”? Also.. Any better sobriquet than “doooood”?
Ignore, he’s clearly unhinged.
““The Pope liked/followed you. Oh, wait. That’s a Pope, not THE Pope.””It was probably this guy/obscure NYC reference
Two questions: is Kendal Wim Hoff breathing to calm himself down? Can anyone identify the street/intersection where Rava’s place is supposed to be? The address says 227-229 Broadway but Broadway doesn’t parallel Central Park like that and 227 Broadway doesn’t exist. I think they modified the sign. The question is, post divorce did Rava stay on the UES or move to the UWS or somewhere like Chelsea?
More location information: Rava’s apt location is the same street as is used for the opening ride of Ken, Karolina and Gregg, flocked with reporters. In the scene where they are going to Rava’s apt, there’s no traffic. Also the wallpaper on Rava’s hallway/entryway is Farrow and Ball’s “Lotus” a cool $350 per roll.
I did really like that wallpaper.
That was the Woolworth Building, which is at 225 Broadway. That wasn’t Central Park across the street; it was City Hall Park.
I think she’s in Tribeca, over by City Hall hence the park.This looks like the actual apartment:https://www.mansionglobal.com/articles/a-29th-floor-condo-with-a-duplex-terrace-in-manhattan-s-iconic-woolworth-building-139551
I was able to easily Google Maps the location. Its the Woolworth Building on Broadway, downtown across from City Hall park. It just recently got converted into a residential condo, so its not surprising that she lives in there.
looked like a version of Wim Hof, a lot of people in my cocaine recovery groups do it, but usually while sober unlike Kendall who is already high lol.
There’s a big chance he wasn’t high but in a manic state. They look very similar and wouldn’t doubt if Kendall has bipolar disorder. The lows are usually longer lasting but the manic episodes are there.
Kendall* There! FTFY 😊
I’m just glad it’s back.
Last post: anyone catch Kendall pointing to a framed picture of (one of his kids?) on the entryway table? That was a nice touch by Jeremy Strong.
You think it wasn’t in the script, you meant?
If Sarah Snook doesn’t win an Emmy for her scene tonight with Sanaa Lathan, it’ll only because she has a better scene in an upcoming episode.
Meh.
You meant Siobhan’s unbridled-racism?
Wow you guys are on a real mission to shit all over things people have been avidly looking forward to, aren’t you? First it was Midnight Mass. Then it was The Many Saints of Newark. And now Succession.
I thought Midnight Mass was overhyped. It was *fine*. Ultimately mostly another in a long line of King-alikes. Well made and solidly written but pretty derivative. Didn’t see Many Saints but the AV Club review didn’t read unfair. And this review is mostly positive! Just maybe a note of something not quite as great as it could’ve been. If that’s “shit all over”, I really hate to see what you think of the average Armond White review.
I mean, to be fair Midnight Mass was probably the most solid of the three prestige-adjacent horror shows that landed on the same exact Jerusalem’s Lot inspiration. In terms of the timing of the seasons, I imagine it might have resonated more for folks not watching AHS and Chapelwaite as well.
I know it’s been a couple of years but Salems Lot was also a big part of the Hulu show.
I was so mesmerized by Lizzy Caplan’s performance as young Annie I think I forgot literally everything else about that season Castle Rock. First one made more of an impression.
I quite liked it, but I feel like Flanagan’s style of empathy horror is just going to be divisive.
Part of it was my own expectations. I thought it was going to go demon or cult or similar. I do really like the mistake by way of senile priest, it’s pretty clever, but I’m kinda meh on vampires.
My only complaint is some of the speechifying skirted maudlin territory. But there was a nice payoff and the last ep delivers a nice, depressing wallop.
It’s funny you mention that. I’m teaching a screenwriting class and this week we’re covering dialogue. We were talking about heightened vs realistic dialogue today, the pros and cons of both. A student brought up Midnight Mass and we chatted about the speechifying.
Not for nothing, but I have two (very much unpublished) novels and naturalistic dialogue is a major focus for me. As in, I’ll read back the line to make sure this is something a human would say.For all intents, Flanagan is quite good at this, even when his characters are monologuing/speechifying. I watched the new Halloween this weekend, and there’s some truly wretched, ham-fisted dialogue peppered throughout. You can learn lessons from bad as well as good when it comes to this stuff 🙂
Danny McBride is not a very good screenwriter.
I mean, I’ve been insanely excited for a long time, and this felt like a fair grade to me. It would be hard for the Succession season premiere to live up to the hype of the last finale and the general lack of critical competition in the wake of COVID-19; too say nothing of the fact this show has always been a grower, not a shower (as most good prestige shows are).
It was a fair grade for an episode of Succession, but there’s kind of a curve. A “B” for an episode of Succession is like an A-/B+ for any other show.
It didn’t help that large portions of scenes were released as “trailers.” I regretted watching those when I was finally watching the episode.Luckily it seems almost all of them were from that first episode (minus a few quick cuts and one-liners).
In fairness Many Saints of Newark was really, really bad
It still upsets me how bad MSON was. It’s like when a kid just does a bad job at their chores just to be spiteful. Just don’t do it if your going to half ass it so much!
It did feel like a desparate attempt to find reasons to hate it. I don’t care about the letter grades, but trying to frame the show as a ‘satire of itself’ was… desparate.Yes, all shows have a distinct style of their own, and this Succession episode was similar to other Succession episodes. That doesn’t make it a parody. Except that, yes, it IS a tongue-in-cheek satire, because it’s a satirical sitcom and always has been.
I think the two questions to ask about things like that Tom/Siobh conversation are: would that scene have been out of keeping in previous seasons?; and does it reflect the characters? And the answers are ‘no’, and ‘yes’. No, there’s nothing about that writing that is somehow out of keeping – more extreme, more parodic, more caricatured – than many other dialogues in earlier episodes. And yes, it naturally arises from the characters and where they are right now: Siobh loves Tom, and wants to prove that to herself and to him, and in particular loves him as a safety blanket, so it makes sense that she would go from a stressful situation (that makes her feel unsafe and bad about herself) to professing love for her husband; but Tom really isn’t sure how he feels about Siobh right now, and he’s really angry both at her and at he family and his situation (eating Logan’s chicken…), and even if he DOES love Siobh he still doesn’t want her to think that their serious argument is over. He’s basically shouting, “I know we can’t keep arguing right now because of what’s happening, but no, we are not suddenly OK now!” – the scene makes perfect sense for both characters and is beautifully written and acted.
She’s “Shiv.” It’s on the HBO site.
uhh…’looking forward to something’ isn’t a sign of quality or a rebuttal to whether or not that thing lives up to expectation. what a weird point.
It felt like the reviewer was criticizing the show for their own personal anticipation of this premiere. This felt like any season premiere after a shake-up season finale: all the characters reacting to the new status quo and establishing the conflicts that’ll seed the season. It wasn’t an “A” episode; honestly B or B+ seems reasonable, but I don’t get how the show doing what it does, with enthusiasm, is a problem.
So a little gentle criticism (and a B grade) is “hate” now?
i don’t even understand the overall point. ‘they gave a few random things that people were looking forward to lower reviews that i would, this must go all the way to the top!’ isn’t even fun paranoia it’s just lame.
It’s the internet jake, everythings binary. Amazing or terrible.
nothing pisses A.V. Club readers off more than when a review of a tv show isn’t breathlessly sucking off the entire episode from start to finish and calling the fans clever and beautiful for liking it
Wow you are on a real mission to get oversensitive about any degree of criticism to anything you happen to be a fan of
Many Saints was a huge disappointment, though not really a surprising one.
It’s a B. Calm down, man.
“I’m mad because this critic didn’t love what I think I’ll love when I eventually watch it.”
Well..I would’ve lo-lo-loved to concur with you…..But given the shitty casting and hiring decisions they made for ‘Succession®’ this season, I’ve grown more critical-eyed. Partly Thanks to a consistently-critical “Socialist” paid for by still-in-power Murdochs( excludes 2 of the high-profile ones: “Liz” Murdoch and RL Kendall, Mr James Murdoch) who’s been consistently critical towards “the hubris” of this show.
President was a bridge too far, but that hair could probably get Connor elected Governor of Texas.
Is that a snark?
Gang, I know it’s awkward but can we not shorten “Siobhan” to “Shiv”? Even if that’s how it’s pronounced? It takes just as many letters to write Siob. Or if that seems odd because the “bh” is what makes the “v” sound, write Siobh.Or ignore me cuz I’m a pedantic jag.
This is the kind of hill I too would be willing to die on, but to be fair, HBO themselves have formalised the wrong spelling, so from a style guide persepective, “Shiv” is correct (plus it provides us with that pun, etc): https://www.hbo.com/succession/cast-and-crew/shiv-roy
It’s how it’s officially shortened by the show.
Maybe it helps to think of it as “Shiv” is a badass DIY murder weapon and “Siobh” is too close to “Slob”?
I’m going to go on a limb and say Logan and or Siobh made the deliberate choice to choose a spelling that evokes a murder weapon instead of one that requires her to explain the pronunciation to every single American she meets.
That’s how the character/writer spells it, though, and it’s a deliberate play on words with her being sharp & brutal.
You’re gonna have to call the writers of the show for anything to happen on that front, bud.
that’s how the official hbo subtitles and episode summaries spell it, so fuck off
The show’s own subtitles use Shiv.
The show’s website is a better argument against me. But only because I know people who do subtitle work (have done some myself between jobs) and accuracy isn’t always 100%.Either way, I don’t *really* care. Enough to complain, not enough to argue.
Fun fact: The homage of Siobhan’s pet-name is actually to a particular, genderbent deity IRL — you could find which one is it by looking for it on Kendall’s tee in S1E08 titled “Prague” in the sex-club.Hmmm..Your revelation is actually as self-bearing to me as it’s disheartening.I understand that you wanted to sound simple, but rest assured — you can be soundly technical with me: And since “subtitle work” is not exactly a job-descriptor.What “work” in “subtitles” did you exactly do?
I worked for a company that outsources transcription work, including closed captioning for TV show DVDs. Which was a pain because they only provide the audio and they don’t tell you anything else (not sure why, maybe they’re sketchy) so you end up doing some guess work. For instance, I did captioning for that motorcycle travel chat show hosted by Norman Reedus. I only figured that out halfway through so I went back and replaced his name where it was relevant. (And I guessed from context and some Google searching that his guest was Milo Ventimiglia)FWIW, I prefer that deity’s Venture Bros adaptation.
Ahh..So you essentially worked for a small-enterprise ‘subtitling company’ and in essence: Were a ‘subtitle creator/producer’, eh?(And nothing to do with the ‘localisation’ bit?)And when you said “closed-captioning”, did you literally meant ‘closed-captioning’ as in optional-subtitles[ almost always with descriptive subtitles] or the ‘open-captioning’( in the words of the filmmakers behind ‘Sound of Metal®’ indie) aka ‘SDH’, to be precise? For the time-being, I assume it’s the former since you said you were producing subtitles for home-media only — and nothing to do with over-the-air transmission, right?Thanks for elaborating on your single experience to help us better understand, BTW. I’m genuinely very frustrated at garbled-up subtitles( mostly it’s the pacing which causes random lines per display of teletext to not display synchronised with the speech and quickly shifting to the next either before or after the relevant speech has been delivered, and at times it’s the altogether delayed speed of subtitling for an episode or at least parts of it in whole — as if the subs are genuinely relaying speeches from a LIVE broadcast) than incorrect subtitles which occurs so infrequently in my viewing-experience, that I’ve gave up trying to get them corrected by those “Premium” entertainment services.( Well, until the very recent: When the degree of subtitling-inaccuracies in an [amc]® original, for amazon® prime video in my territory-of-residence are so-so-do dead way off at times that I genuinely think that the subtitling-producer[s] tasked for the price clearly had immense difficulties parsing the accents of speakers. ‘Course the “NETFLIX®-competing” amazon® wouldn’t care even if they added a contact-form for contacting in matters specifically relevant to the subtitling-issues, unlike pure streaming-play businesses like NETFLIX®( not implying that I like them) or even Japan( in name only) & Stateside only hulu®, for that matter). Given my far-too-miserable experience with any ‘Big Corporate’ when it comes to after-sales/customer-support, I understand that my complaint to them is predicated to fall on deaf-ears. Leaving their “amazon® forum” as the one-&-only recourse, and given the grievances of entitled folks( I watch a movie in cinemas with subtitles for “foreign language” but not English, why’s that not the case here with prime video as well? It’s too annoying to have to turn on captions for “foreign language” scenes as they keep going on and going only to turn them off when English resumes! Hey, I even got multiple refunds based on that incompetence!) to even legitimate grievances( all captions are missing except for Russian speech in the latest episode of ‘The Americans®’, I watch everything with captions so why that’s the case?) have been unresolved by their customer-service department, I can only imagine how well “my” case would go.)
And hey.. Very Careful! You may think mocking a popular deity revered by the members of marginal-minority in the Murica but in fact one of world-religions is so “witty” but.. Even if you excuse it as a laughing-matter in spite of getting to learn that in the mid-90s, members of that community in West Coast of the U S of A found a large rock in the middle of a road[ which was determined to have appeared “mysteriously” by the zeitgeist] and concluded it as a manifestation of Him and cordoned off the area around to turn the site into a shrine, or a temple( if you will). Regular services were performed there. And soon enough, it was laced with traditional-artefacts bearing out that like any other Supreme Being to ever exist, those folks started treating the rock as their one-stop-shop wishmaster, or say.. Aladdīn’s enslaved genie( than the actual demanding figure in Islāmic theology, where the roles are sorta reversed), you know — than say.. A/The monument to regularly express gratitude. The point-being: Given so much of _spiritual_ incentives involved, I wouldn’t be needlessly take a trouble of mockery willy-nilly ‘cus of my feelings, lest you miss the warning.. You appear to be treating “…The Destroyer” as some […] of a joke.(This! If you can’t parse this 2nd-hint, then I dunno what you possibly can.)
Cocaine is a hell of a drug.
Not as much as ethanol, no.Now, now..Anything of substance you gotta add, are you still not inspired?
I see many people didn’t follow the “ignore me” advice.But fair enough.
Only Siobhan I knew went by “Shiv” too (and yeah that’s how she wrote it).Could be an English thing sneaking in through Jesse Armstrong
I watch everything with captions, including this show, and HBO spells it “Shiv.”
Logan forgetting Connor exists until Willa reminds him? Exquisit!
That was amazing. So was Connor pushing the idea of a hate-watch campaign for Willa’s play, and the fact that Willa seemed interested.
To me, Willa seemed… humiliated. Yes, sure, when your dreams crash and burn and your billionaire boyfriend, who has backed you and is losing a lot of money due to your failure, suggests that you could at least make back some of the money by actively encouraging people to hate and mock you, you’re not going to say ‘no’ to his face right away. Not only do you owe him, but also: your dreams just crashed and burned, so why not make the best of it? But you’re not exactly going to be happy about it – it’s heaping humiliation onto despair. [and further demonstrating that Connor can only see her success or failure in financial terms]
I don’t know. I maintain that she seemed curious at the possibility. She’s already humiliated.
Nah, she was dying. It’s not like it’s a healthy relationship and she can say no, right?
and the fact that Willa seemed interested. She was def not interested, but she faked it well…..she is an escort after all (expert faker).
No comment no comment.
Quite passive.
So was Kendall coked up or just happy for the first time since Shiv’s wedding? It seems like he has not thought this through. Although setting Logan back on his heels all the way to Sarajevo is impressive. My favorite part might have been the preview after the end of the show. Sarah Snook in that stunning blue dress is a huge part of why I’m here. Come for the killer performances from Strong and Cox, stay for the kitchen/fashion porn. I also believe we got a glimpse of gangsta rapper Kendall and I CANNOT WAIT.
He’s in the manic stage of manic-depressive.
And Jeremy Strong is playing that state so fucking well.
Your credentials?List them exhaustively.
Was he really ever like that, for that length of time, sober? Difficult to imagine he’d be sober right now during all of this.
He clearly was, for ¾th of the freshman season — at the very least.
‘If Roman and Gerri don’t actually hook up this season, what are we even doing?’OK, so a lot of this review is a somewhat overwrought argument that this episode of Succession is a bit too self-aware, but *this* fan-shipping is what the critic wants to see indulged? Pick a lane.FWIW Geri being not moved at all by Roman’s straight-up advances seems worthy of note.
it’s that the reviewer does not understand the relationship dynamic in play between Gerri and Roman. her weird insistence that they should definitely “hook up” this season completely misses the entire point. Roman has (among other things) a serious humiliation kink and simply cannot participate in “traditional” sexual relationships. this was evidenced by his relationship with his “girlfriend” last season who repeatedly said “we never fuck” and the one time they DID try, he asked her to pretend she was a corpse. (plus, the only reason he even started dating her in the first place was because she’d already snowballed Tom at his bachelor party and he knew that her presence in the group would make him feel like the cuck loser he thinks he is.)
It’s called: Pandering in the “new Journalism” age of making ad-supported bread-&-butter.
“FWIW Geri being not moved at all by Roman’s straight-up advances seems worthy of note.”I read that entirely differently—-she looked like she was really close to giving in before they were interrupted.
Agreed. I’m reading a fair bit of “but his kink!” feedback but I don’t see why that has to preclude actual fucking. Like yeah, *maybe* he needs hands off. But we have no proof either way. Humiliation can still happen with consummation. I dunno, it feels like some people are being weird gatekeepers of a character they have no hand in writing.
all this comment demonstrates to me is that you don’t understand kink or the definition of the word gatekeeping. /shrug
Hey Pam? Go get in a drift race with some Yakuza or something.
it’s exhausting, isn’t it?
Watch how Gerri handles literally every dumb idea people throw at her over the course of the series. She treats Roman exactly the same way. No suggestion at all that she was going for it.
lol I remember the original review of Succession on avclub didn’t understand the show had any self awareness at all.
Hey remember when AV Club didn’t review the first season of Succession at all?
I re-watched the series last month and it reminded me how alienating the first episode actually was. It doesn’t feel like it was written to sell you on the show, like most pilots are. I understand why the AV Club and a lot of other reviewers slept on it because you kinda have to get through half the season before the greatness of Succession really hits you.
Granted, but I don’t think AV Club ever bailed on an HBO prestige series like that before, while at the time they were covering things like Duck Tales.
it was a weird thing to sleep on though, especially because the acting and humour were top notch from the get go. it was just kind of a pile on that it was wealth porn when it was the very opposite.
Oh… I dunno… Like plenty of others, I rewatched in anticipation and it still took half of the first season for me to be okay. It takes a while to not hate every single one of those characters. The wealth porn is very front-loaded.(Also I forgot how much I fucking hate Greg. I still find him the hardest to get past. He’s such a phony fumbling stumblebum dipshit. If he wasn’t mostly funny I would skip his scenes entirely.)
(Also I forgot how much I fucking hate Greg. I still find him the hardest to get past. He’s such a phony fumbling stumblebum dipshit. If he wasn’t mostly funny I would skip his scenes entirely.) How dare you. Greg is “us”. He is also a treasure.
No he isn’t. He’s a slacker wannabe-1%er who has managed to get by on a combo of luck and instinct. He *can* be smart, sometimes. He *can* have a conscience, sometimes.I think Greg was set up initially as an audience surrogate but it became apparent very quickly that he shares a lot of the worst traits with the family. And the first shitty trait from the very first episode is naked nepotism. Gross, Greg. Gross.
Even when they did start reviewing it, there were (what felt to me like) endless Trump comparisons. The Trumps aren’t anywhere near this level of wealth, but I don’t know, maybe the fact that he was president and people thought there was a connection had something to do with AV’s decision.
I think it was anger at the privilege more than the wealth itself. Inhumane abuse of power. Abuse of news media as propaganda. The Murdoch family and Disney are better parallels but Trump sucked up a lot of oxygen.
Disney® is *not* a family-owned company.Hasn’t been for long enough.So why bring them up? Hope you aren’t as mediocre as others to harp on the “uNiQuElY eViL TWDC®” trope — especially given one of iconic characters of now indisputably-monopolist Empire( also named after a family but ain’t owned by one) as your avatar, a multinational mega-Empire which is also the owner of this show[, oh-so-surprisingly].
“better parallel” doesn’t mean 1:1 ratio. My point was that Trump as a brand is not and has never been a media conglomerate. Disney IS and Disney owns parks and cruises. The Murdochs are a better parallel than Disney for the news obsession but they don’t do parks and cruises.This is easy stuff. Not sure how it confused you.
Well..‘Case one has to fixate predominantly over the fictional “BrightStar®” end of the business for whatsoever factors, then..: It makes some sense, I guess.And Murdochs “don’t do parks” applies in the same sense that a-gain, the other non-family owned mega-conglomerate( the one which owns this show) doesn’t “do parks” but licenses its IP prolifically to Jew-Ish family-owned COMCAST® for the same and as if that’s not enough — even has the whole amusement-park and now an adjacent under-construction hotel named after itself in the country referenced only by its demonym in the line “All use this firm.” by Kendall in this episode — Murdochs( 21st Century Fox®) got into the same licensing business, but alas.. Too late.#TheMoreYouKnow™
Indeed.Mr Colburn, right?Well..The very same reasoning which applied as the answer of somebody pondering the author’s simultaneous issues with “self-awareness” while getting on the deffo-not-hormonal “shipping” business re Roman and Gerri provided by myself, applies here.
i’m so glad other people felt this way, and what makes the show brilliant is that it – like the roy’s – dares you to hate what a piece of shit it is, only to realize its calculated moves are exactly the plan. love this shit
I slept on it until a few weeks into season two because I got it confused with Billions and that show seems like a waste of time.
I’ve never watched this show, but when I came across the season premiere last night I was immediately taken in by the sheer poetry of the lines. Virtually every sentence uttered meant something else.Tickled when I figured out that Siobhan’s nickname is the British slang term for a makeshift knife.
A little touch I loved: characters saying “I love you” and not getting an “I love you” back
Well..That’s not a proper ceremonial-exchange, anyways.But if you’re making a general-observation about pop-culture writ large and not specifically this show, then […] yeah: I couldn’t concur more. The “I Love You”–”I Love You Too” routine is quite bo-o-ring to me, seconded only by the “I am sorry” by a character to every stranger about the loss of a person they’re just getting to know — which is insufferable.
Kendall has never seen Bojack — no way. He just knows the show has “heat” on Twitter (big ups to Twitter for being considered so damn relevant on this show!). Kendall doesn’t care about things, he cares about the status things confer.
Not sure about that. Kendall is a coke head with no real friends. He might be up late watching TV a lot.
“no real friends” is a sign of failure because..?Wanna launch into your dissertation?A tip, start off with defining “real friends” exhaustively.
a little concerned that this whole season is gonna be people in private rooms yelling at each other on phones because of covid filming, but i guess that wouldn’t exactly be a radical departure for the show pre-covid anyway.
I’m actually hoping S4 actually has covid happen. Quarantines and zoom calls and so on would add deliciously to everybody’s impotence and the general chaos.
it’s not going to happen, pretty sure i read in an interview with various members of the writing staff/cast that there wouldn’t be any need to depict COVID stuff because these characters are so rich and insulated that the pandemic barely even registers on their radar. (which is… depressingly accurate.)
Yeugh!
The wine bottle bit came off to me as illuminating Kendall’s coked up narcissism and selfishness in Rava’s eyes, rather than building some rift with Naomi.I enjoyed the episode – it really got cooking in the second half hour. One question: When Logan says to Tom, “Are you playing the reverse banjo, son?” What on earth does that even mean???
Re: reverse banjo — I think that Tom’s play for Shiv was to push everyone BUT Shiv so it’s not obvious that the person he wants to push is Shiv (Tom being Tom, he completely fucked that up). I think that’s what Logan’s line is acknowledging.
Did he, though?That might have been Logan’s read of the situation but I honestly think Tom is still hurt and pushing against Siobh was a deliberate move to fuck her over. I could be wrong but the show is toying with their relationship.
I don’t think it’s a deliberate move against her, because if it were he wouldn’t even have given her the heads-up. And I don’t think Tom would so easily admit to himself that he’s acting against his own wife out of spite. But I could buy that he may be subconsciously sabotaging his own attempt to support her, so that he can have it both ways (feel good about himself for supporting her, but also feel good about her losing).[if Siobh did the same thing, it would be deliberate. But I guess I don’t read Tom as being as deliberate a character in general…]
No real offense intended, but you have really odd takes on this series, episodes, scenes, and motivation of the characters.Maybe you’re right, probably not, but maybe?Idk, just not at all what I have been interpreting.
I’m not offended, though I don’t know why you would classify them as odd takes. I’m extrapolating from what the show is giving us. Tom and Shiv (happy, complainers?) have significant marital tension, which is going to result in *some* kind of consequences. It doesn’t seem crazy to me that Tom would tell Shiv about the CEO discussion just so he could screw her out of it due to hurt. She has cheated on him AND thrown him under the bus multiple times. I might be wrong, and fair enough if so. But odd takes? Nah. Reasonable takes if you understand narrative.
I think he’s asking whether Tom is trying to do reverse psychology on him?
In Logan speak he means reverse psychology, so Tom saying he likes Roman immediately made Logan realise he was of course going to be pushing Shiv while pretending to consider someone else.
He’s saying, “Tom, are you attempting to use Reverse Psychology on me?” basically. Tom is going out of his way to NOT mention Shiv as a candidate, and by doing so, he’s trying to make Logan think of Shiv on his own. Logan, of course, sees right through the charade.
Seeing Tom stumble and bumble while wearing pastels and yellows makes my day. A real butt-kissing rat.
I thought the wine bottle bit was intended to show us how much Naomi enjoys stirring up shit. She definitely knew what the dust on the bottle indicated, and purposely chose the most expensive wine in Rava’s house to drink with Kendall (she also only brought in two glasses).
yah I think the wine bottle was just to illuminate that Naomi is not good for Kendall, despite him insisting she is. They both are too similarly fucked up.
Ironically, Rava was probably very good for Kendall but he messed that up.
Well..That would be a trite trope of “look at the Sorry™ state-of-affairs of _otherwise_ independent™, self-sufficient™ and can-do-it-all-alone™ womyn” but who knows..The show has already jumped the shark in casting and hiring, maybe they did for writing — as well?
“Everything seems amped up in a slightly performative way.”It’s a big reach, I think, to imply that Armstrong’s script was influenced by the attention the show has gotten over the last couple years. It’s perfectly reasonable for the vibe to be elevated here on a storytelling level. I mean, Kendall just blew up the company’s reputation—apparently with little-to-no pre-planning—and Logan is disturbed enough to decamp in Sarajevo to avoid extradition. The CEO slot is suddenly open and it’s getting decided RIGHT NOW. I could spend all day watching a borderline-manic Kendall wing it in real time while he wrestles with his ego, his fragility, and even his ex-wife, to try and make shit happen. It’s a rollercoaster ride entirely in keeping with what just went down at that press conference. And that’s what I think you’re not adequately taking into account. This was written to immediately follow that season-ending bombshell. Forget about the two-year wait. If this episode had immediately followed the second season finale, I feel like you’d have given it an “A” (or at least a “B+”). But you (quite reasonably) are impacted by the last couple years in the real world, and might be grafting assumptions onto this show that, frankly, aren’t really there.
How’s that any different than fans/stans( read not genuine-viewers) projecting their own wishes onto the show as facts of the plot?
“Was Succession’s season premiere a little too…Succession-y?”….No, we good
Points I’m going to make because I haven’t seen anyone else make them:1) It was weird that they pretended Jess was in the car with Greg and Kendall and Karolina, when it was obviously just a stand in. Chalking that up to COVID protocols.2) Jess tells that Kendall that they “have” (presumably on their side in a shareholder vote): Uncle Ewan, Kendall’s mom, Greg’s mom, Josh Arenson (Skaarsgard?), Laird (still pissed about having that foreign deal fall through) and MARCIA (!!!!!).3) Rava’s reaction to Ken’s press conference felt very real. She’s been with him through an addiction, and lots of bad (related) decisions. She can clearly see he’s going to crash and burn and couldn’t even bear to watch the press conference. (I also hope those razors in her bathroom are for Stewy.)
4) Connor getting sidelined by his dad and everyone else all through the episode was sad, but I was more concerned that he did not seem hurt about it. Accepting that your loved one(s) don’t value you is usually the final step before cutting the cord, and if Connor stops cow-towing to Logan, he could be dangerous to the entire family.
5) Speaking of which, I hope to God that Willa is writing down everything! The entire family acts as if she presents no danger to them and never asks her to leave the room during sensitive conversations. . I think they are making a huge mistake and she her next script might be a real banger.
6) Ken tells Naomi he loves her. She responds “yeah” and he doesn’t even notice. That even hurt me.
7) What’s Naomi’s deal anyway? She seemed delighted to stir the pot in this episode. I think she may just be fucking with Ken and his family to amuse herself and, perhaps, take some revenge against the Roys. 8) When Shiv finds out Gerri got the job, she redirects her car (to a destination unknown) . . . I’m guessing she en route to Ken, and she’s already called or texted him (hence his knowledge of Logan’s whereabouts in the next scene).
8) Finally, there is no way in hell that Gerri and Roman ever “do it”. He’s not into to her as much as he is into being abused, and finds her formidable enough to play the role. She just plays along, like she plays along with Kendall and Shiv at times in their schemes to enhance her position. At times it may even been flattering to her (like when he proposed), but I don’t think she finds it arousing in the slightest. Just my take.
I would also like to talk about Naomi’s little stunt with the wine! That was a power move or something. She grabs the dustiest oldest wine bottle at her new boyfriend’s ex-wife’s house and gives it to the doofus cousin to open, so he’d get the yelling and she could smirk and drink the sentimental wine. She’s just as selfish and shitty as the rest of them and I really doubt she’s going to be all that “good” for Kendall.
1) Possibly not COVID related but Roman’s ‘Is what he said to his son as the sexual assault allegations poured in’ line was almost certainly ADR. Might be interesting squinting for these things throughout the season.2) I took that to mean ‘on the line to talk’ rather than actual votes lined up, but I’m not sure5) it is really strange how quickly they brought Willa into the family, she does know a lot of sensitive stuff and she’s not family. Maybe they think they can make her sign a non-disclosure at some point7) I figured that would be an end-of-episode cliffhanger, but yeah she’s probably looking for Ken. Roman’s call to her possibly let her know about the CEO decision before Logan wanted her to know…8) 100% absolutely no doubt. The Gerri/Roman shipping is getting annoying, and I imagine it’s driven by people who only recently binged-watched the show. Excellent point that Gerri humors Roman exactly as she humors absolutely everybody else she comes in contact with.
Perhaps Shiv is going to assist Uncle Ewan upseting both dad and bro?
That seems a bit too bank-shot. Have Shiv and Ewan ever had dialogue together? We’ve also seen that when Logan’s up against it Ewan will side with him (Ewan hates himself but he does enjoy Logan’s largesse), so he’s not reliable.I don’t get the impression this will become a thing, but the ace in Shiv’s sleeve could be Nan Pierce…
On (2) – I think you are right. It makes much more sense that Jess set up calls with them than that she already got them to agree to vote against Logan in the shareholder meeting.
1) So you posit it’s essentially similar to one of the techniques that Home Box Office® has been deploying for its “top secret” long-long-long before the onset of ongoing global-healthcare tragedy, after all.
4. Connor needs the $$$$….he has an escort GF who gets an allowance. Plus he has sunk many a dime into her shitty play. He is going nowhere.
You sounded like a jumping cartoon-character…..But then you jumped yourself into the shark and became a perfect-comedian by point 3.Rāvā the clairvoyant? What’s this? “Psychic Girls United”? I keep witnessing that just like others, folks like you project your own wishes into the show and frame it as storyboarding of the plot.Which is, your concluding point( ‘8’) which I find appealing, is: Only the start of path to redemption, and not ‘almost-redemption’ itself.
Connor agreed to stop his campaign so that Logan would give him more money.
Stray Observation: Kendall and Naomi are going to get so fucked up at some point during Season 3.
Rava tolerance of Kendall’s mania was fascinating.She can clearly see that he’s throwing himself of a cliff but wants to help him… up to the point where he is becoming too destructive of her home.I imagine she’ll be throwing him out or inviting the press in to throw him out soon enough.In the end this is all Kendall playing this through to see how far he can push Logan without Logan truly revealing what happened in Scotland. None of it makes sense as a plan, it’s all panic and emotion.
I’m just a very straightforward person, Shiv.
I just want to say how impressed I am with the portrayal of Kendall being turned in by Depeche Mode’s singer. Amazing career pivot.
The way Dave Gahan has de-aged himself 20 years is truly spectacular. And his American accent is spot-on!
Speaking of accents, it always amazes me to watch a scene between Shiv and Tom – and Aussie and a Brit.
A who?And how’s that related to the show?Is that your wish-expression for the show to imitate ‘Billions®’( Metallica) but you won’t spell-it-out like others, because.. Reasons?
Are you off your meds? WTF does this word salad mean?
My sympathies that you don’t understand anything beyond a single variant of English, leading you to go off on a crazy-shaming tangent.
I like how Americans hate rich people but will watch them in TV shows religiously.
Errrmmm..Hiya…?No wonder the abysmally-low reception to your comment.As a fellow non-Murican( in the most-stereotypical sense), I am inclined to concur. And very strongly at that.But before that, may I know which part of the globe you regularly inhabit?(No pressure.)
Hey.. So Ms Hadīdī is now here reviewing ‘Succession®’, after Pajiba®?!! I wonder where she went as she was posting there until early September, then I found out days ago that she got laid-off and is here now. Unfortunately, while I enjoyed her analysis there — particularly because of mostly level-headed, if randomly-cocksure toxic community — I think by this analysis alone, she has diluted herself.Few such examples:Kendall was referring to having killed Logan, and not whatever you predictably believe “happened at Shiv’s wedding”. That’s why the immediate “juice is loose..” remark, which you conveniently glossed-over while mentioning his smile — like every other “critic” of “new” media.Gerri didn’t “describe” Kendall’s “grudge”. She was spinning Kendall’s actions to the White House communications liaison, being a prolific spin-doctor that she is. To spell-it-out: Yes, she was trying hard enough to manipulate Michelle-Anne( voiced by Ms Linda Emond), her desperation after failing to get “the man himself” on the line was palpable throughout that phone-call. In fact, the latest-iteration of the official-podcast on the show had its first-ever episode mainly dedicated on that one continuous scene. Should I feign surprise that this wasn’t even referenced here?And on a side-note: I find it absurd that those who attack Kendall as synonymous to “nothing but a substantial junkie” find Mr Will Arnett’s “performance” in that vulgar-cartoon for NETFLIX® as synonymous to: “Such a hoot!”I don’t care about Stuart “Stewy” Hosseini, but I do care about Marcia “Marcy” Roy — though. That said, it’s as mediocre as insidious of the author to put Rāvā up the pedestal of sainthood when she hasn’t even “tolerated” something from her one-&-only alimony-benefactor even for a mere quarter of 24 hours.