The Boys connects America’s racist history and present with “Nothing Like It In The World”
TV Reviews Recap
This post discusses major plot points of The Boys episode “Nothing Like It In the World.”
I will be honest and say to you: Where to even start with this episode?! We are now at the halfway point of this second season of The Boys, and “Nothing Like It In The World” takes a few big swings. One swing is cheesily satisfying: Hughie and Annie are cute, but tragic, together! Another swing feels sort of anticlimactic: After all this time searching for her, is Butcher really going to push Becca away like that? Also dialed up is the show’s messaging about the cyclical nature of violence, racism, and oppression. If you’re up on your white-power vernacular, you probably were giving Stormfront the side eye this whole time! And then there’s the whole thing with Homelander’s outsized narcissism going head to head with Doppelganger’s sexual risk taking, and I … I might have recreated that iconic Wee-Bey gif in real life once that oral sex attempt started! I was not ready for that!
So many stories get forward momentum this episode because “Nothing Like It In the World” is fairly compartmentalized in its storytelling, breaking up the Boys into three groups. After the whale blood-soaked travails of last week’s “Over The Hill With The Swords Of A Thousand Men,” the Boys are struggling to find their footing. Kimiko remains isolated in her grief, still maintaining her silence after seeing Stormfront kill her brother. No one else in the Boys knows about the newest member of the Seven’s outright racism and murder (at least, not yet).
The media is doing their part: News coverage calls Kenji “dead-eyed and unemotional,” blaming him entirely for the death toll of 59 people, while Stormfront is a new media darling. Frenchie, resorting to more drug use, wants to be there for Kimiko—but his attempted kiss is unwanted, and his one-again, off-again paramour Cherie (Jordana Lajoie) points out that his “sweaty despair” isn’t exactly the most appealing thing. And sure, Frenchie might be protecting Kimiko when he stops her from attacking Stormfront later in the episode. But that kind of anger doesn’t go away, and Kimiko is not the type to let grief stand alone. She’s going to do something, and does Frenchie really want to be in her way when that happens? (I do feel like Frenchie hasn’t had much yet to do this season, and I think pining after Kimiko is not the best use of the character’s talents? But I digress.)
Does Frenchie and Kimiko being off in their own narrative silo forgive Butcher for not saying goodbye to them before embarking on his quest to save and retrieve Becca from Vought? Maybe, but if it were up to Butcher, he probably wouldn’t say goodbye to anyone. Or hello, either! Butcher just rejects all pleasantries! His farewell to MM is somewhat anticlimactic, but so is his reunion with Becca. Something about their reconciliation felt off, like it wasn’t reaching the emotional heights I expected after, what, a decade apart? I couldn’t tell if the scene was muted because we as viewers have known that Becca is alive for some hours now, or because there’s a sort of predictability to Becca’s refusal to go with Butcher. She hates Homelander, clearly, but she loves her son.
I’m not sure I totally buy her swearing to Butcher that she’s “not raising [Ryan] like that,” because Vought and this mysterious Dr. Park are aware of Ryan’s superpowers. And just because Becca is raising him in privacy and seclusion doesn’t necessarily mean that Ryan’s powers won’t get the better of him, or that he won’t react in anger or frustration and accidentally use them, as we almost saw him do against Homelander. On the flip side of that, though, Butcher losing his temper and calling Ryan “a billion-dollar piece of Vought property” and a “fucking supe freak” probably wasn’t the way to endear himself to his estranged wife! Michael Saltzman’s writing of this subplot felt a little too pat, as if reconciling Butcher and Becca and then separating them again was just a checkbox on a to-do list for this season. But Ryan isn’t a character you can leave hanging out there, right? Now that we know the kid has laser eyes, I’m assuming they come into play again, Chekhov style.
While Butcher deals with that aspect of his past, we learn more about MM’s history during his chaperoning of that road trip to North Carolina with Hughie and Annie. (He might say he’s not their guardian, but come on. His whole vibe during this trip was very “I’m just a parent at the school dance, watching out for my kids!”) And I understand why: Hughie and Annie cannot get close again, no matter how many meet-cutes they have while singing along to Hughie’s beloved Billy Joel or while arguing about the merits of Almond Joys (I’m with Annie on this one). They sleep together during this trip, but Annie makes the right call when she breaks it off—the only reason Homelander let her go from that elevator is because she was telling the truth, at the time, that she is not with Hughie. Being with him puts her in unprecedented danger, especially now that the Compound V reveal already seems to have worked its way out of the news cycle. The issue clearly isn’t over, but an attack by a super terrorist, an attack that only Vought can allegedly defend people from, will change the conversation, won’t it?
During the North Carolina trip, we learn more about MM’s father, his own battle with Vought, and how that frustration and anger transferred down a generation; Annie very astutely picks up on MM’s OCD as a way to insert some control into a haphazardly paced life. But, uh, how do you really control your life when it’s in the crosshairs of monsters like Stormfront and Homelander? The trip to North Carolina clues MM, Annie, and Hughie into the fact that Stormfront is a rebrand, another iteration of the racist superhero Liberty, who murdered a young Black man nearly 50 years ago. (And who might have killed more, given the casualness with which she seemed to crush the man’s skull.) Vought paid off
the family with $2,000, the death was kept secret until since-murdered CIA deputy director Susan Raynor went sniffing around, and decades later Liberty re-emerged as Stormfront, with her endless cache of alt-right memes, her fascism masquerading as freedom, and her implied call to arms. What else could “Be your own hero?” mean?
I know I keep saying this, but: What is Stormfront’s purpose on the Seven? I know, I know: Vought is evil. I agree! Stormfront is evil, too. That syncs up! But Stormfront is, to put it in certain political terms, saying the quiet stuff out loud. And she’s doing so real loud! Her methodologies become clearest in that conversation with Homelander: They both agree about how dumb people are, and how exceptional superheroes are in comparison, and how much better America is than everywhere else. But note how Homelander’s big goal last season was getting the Seven to work with the U.S. military, and in contrast, how Stormfront is saying stuff like, “We demand our government do better.” Homelander thought power came from alignment with forces bigger than, but still buoyed by, the Seven. Stormfront seems like she wants something different—a different kind of power, one that doesn’t really come from collaboration. So again: What does Vought want, and how are they using Stormfront to get it?
And, if Vought is using Stormfront to get whatever they want, where does Homelander fit in? Does his certain brand of American patriotism not fit their M.O. anymore? I keep going back to Mr. Edgar telling Homelander that Vought is a pharmaceutical company, and what that could mean in relation to Homelander’s role on the Seven. (Recall what Stormfront says to him: “Change with the times.”) Is he no longer appropriate for this current moment—and if so, would that ever mean Homelander would turn against Vought? As he tells Doppelganger (who had worked for Madelyn in the first season, but now assumes her image while providing comfort to/doing sex stuff with Homelander) before killing him, “I don’t need everyone to love me. I don’t need anyone. I don’t need you.” But we also know Homelander to be the guy with the praise kink, who literally needs milk to be pacified, and who really could have been narcissistic enough to have sex with himself, if Stormfront’s criticism from earlier hadn’t still been rattling around in his brain. The bombastic, declarative way he says “I’m the face of the Seven!” reminded me of another man who thought quite highly of himself: Daniel Plainview’s “I am the Third Revelation!” in There Will Be Blood. “I am whom the Lord has chosen!” Plainview had yelled. Taking that comparison a step further: Does that make the Vought corporation, rather than Homelander, our new gods?
Stray observations
- I do not understand Maria Menounos’s career, having only seen her in One Tree Hill and in those annoying advertisements that played before the trailers in movie theaters in the Before Times, but I guess she is self-aware enough to appear here in a cameo mocking herself? Good for you, Maria! (Also, in a nod to real life, April Reign’s #OscarsSoWhite hashtag gets another spin here with #HeroesSoWhite.)
- Black Noir is on Butcher’s trail? That can’t be good!
- Okay, so the Church of the Collective is Scientology! Got it! It all clicked together as soon as that first interview started and it was revealed that those women were Church members vying to be the Deep’s wife—a la those decades-long rumors about Scientology leaders holding auditions for women to be Tom Cruise’s girlfriend.
- I know I talk about Antony Starr’s performance a lot, but seriously! How thoroughly he communicates Homelander’s disinterest in A-Train’s outrage about being kicked out of the Seven was great. I’m still laughing at the deadpan style of “This was nothing personal. It was really hard for me. We’ll always be friends, etc.” Contrast that with how furious he gets when he basically outs Maeve, snarling at her about she and Elena must be “scissoring each other raw.” I can understand that his increasingly unhinged characterization might seem too rapid, but Starr is so good at bouncing between these extremes that it works for me.
- I still don’t feel like we know Becca that well, but I appreciated her calling Butcher out on idolizing her for so long, and refusing to acknowledge that his anger and self-destruction might have had a little to do with Becca making her decision to go to Vought and raise Ryan alone.
- This week in product placement: So much! Almond Joy (THE BEST CANDY BAR, I WILL NOT INDULGE IN ARGUMENTS HERE), Charleston Chew, Bit-O-Honey (truly awful, Hughie was right), Arby’s, Dunkin’ Donuts, Baskin-Robbins, phew. It was a lot! Also yes, Jamoca Almond Fudge is delicious, but as a former Baskin-Robbins employee, I can tell you with authority that Baseball Nut (cashews and black raspberry in a vanilla base) is very underrated!
- Those (admittedly horrifying) memes that Stormfront uses must be very fun for the show’s writers to make, and my favorite so far is definitely the distracted boyfriend meme, with the American people paying more attention to Stormfront than to Homelander.
- I understand we have some Aya Cash stans in the comments, and let me speak to you directly when I say that Cash’s delivery of “You don’t need 50 million people to love you. You need 5 million people fucking pissed. … You have fans. I have soldiers” was very unsettling and good! I guess I should watch You’re the Worst, huh?
- Homelander sympathizing with Travis Bickle (“How much shit is he supposed to take?!”) while watching Taxi Driver makes so much sense, actually. Homelander! Watch all of Paul Schrader’s movies and report back!
- Did you see the limited-edition sneaker collection inspired by The Boys? The Butcher, Mother’s Milk, and Queen Maeve designs are my favorite, but the Black Noir and Terror designs best fit my lingering high-school-Goth aesthetic.
- Homelander with a Confederate flag cape, painted on the side of a barn, in North Carolina? Yeah, that tracks.
228 Comments
What’s the release schedule for this? I’m too lazy to check.
Fridays. One a week.
Bad.
I guess I should watch You’re the Worst, huh?Absolutely.
Firstly agreed about Maria Menounos who disappears and reappears every couple of years either presenting something or as a cameo. She has the strangest resume.I don’t know what else you expected from Butcher and Becca, Clearly the love is there but 8 years is 8 years, They are different people with different priorities on completely different spectrums. It was impossible for her to leave or for him to stay. Thought they dealt with it as well as they could. I actually thought they could have done more with the road trip scenes.What more can you say about Anthony Starr, if you haven’t seen Banshee yet than you need to start now. Gives an acting Masterclass on that show as well. Those Homelander scenes are getting creepier and creepier and he is getting more and more unhinged. The scene with Stormfront was unbelievable scary because among other things she is giving him ideas that will make him even more dangerous. As for her if she’s clever she could play Homelander like a fiddle like Stillwell did. There were moments in there scene where he was looking at her like a boy with his first crush. Even in the last episode when he saw the body and damage that Kimikos brother received he had a look of brief admiration and turn on but his ego took over.Frenchie’s friend needs more scenes. She’s just too cool every time she turns up.
Also , like Urban, turns out Starr is a Kiwi …I never would have guessed he was a New Zealander.
He rose to local fame in NZ playing identical twin brothers on the iconic Outrageous Fortune – one a smarmy lawyer and the other an incredibly dim junkie petty crim. He’s been pretty incredible from Day One, and it was Outrageous Fortune and Banshee that made him my #1 pick for the eventual Moon Knight series. But now he’s on The Boys so that won’t happen – ironically giving the exact performance that shows why he would have been perfect as MK.
my #1 pick for the eventual Moon Knight series. But now he’s on The Boys so that won’t happen – ironically giving the exact performance that shows why he would have been perfect as MK.I’ve only a minor and distant knowledge of Moon Knight. Is he often portrayed as an asshole?
Only when Jake is in charge. Not an asshole, but he has Dissociative Identity Disorder (or multiple personalities, as we used to say) so exactly what kind of “hero” you get depends largely on who’s driving st the time.
Moon Knight has MPD.
Yeah Moon Knight can be a total asshole. Part of his origin was unscrupulous mercenary. Though even as a crimefighter a lot of people hate him because he’s such a dick and his fighting style is also fit for a jerk. Dude cut a guy’s face off. So even though Moon Knight has done some incredibly heroic stuff, he’s kind of like if Batman was crazier and more of an asshole. I know I’m not giving any specifics but i don’t want to ruin the comics for you, to be fair to Moon Knight he has a very demanding boss.
Playing twins will come into play
I can’t stop picturing him as the MCU’s Adam Warlock.
Anthony Starr and Karl Urban share Xena Warrior Princess as one of the early roles as young actors in NZ. Urban played 3 roles including Cupid and Julius Caesar, Starr only appeared the once as giant killer David.
Toni Starr appeared in two episodes of Xena. I believe he played a Centaur is his first outing.
I think Xena (& maybe Hercules as well) is the Kiwi version of Law & Order. If you’re an actor in NZ, you probably had at least a bit part on it.
They had an inside joke in season 1 when Homelander met Billy in the flashback scene and said ‘love the accent’.
“What more can you say about Antony Starr, if you haven’t seen Banshee yet than you need to start now. Gives an acting Masterclass on that show as well.”I had no idea who he was before this show. His name, his face, everything was foreign to me, but right from the very first Homelander scene he had me riveted. I hope he goes on to make some really interesting choices and gains popularity because, damn, that man can act.
Honestly, I’d never noticed him before, and he struck me as what would happen if someone drew Chris Pine from memory, but he’s been fantastic here.
I really recommend Banshee.. Its comparable if not crazier than The Boys.
“Firstly agreed about Maria Menounos who disappears and reappears every couple of years either presenting something or as a cameo. She has the strangest resume.”Well, she did have to undergo treatment for a brain tumor when she was in her 30s, so it’s understandable there might be a few gaps in her filmography.
This isn’t directed at you, but Hadidi’s dig at her above seemed like a pretty cheap shot given what she’s had to deal with.
Wasn’t aware of her personal struggles. I was more so referring to how weird and wide ranging her tv honours are rather than their frequency or lack of. The reviewer has very little knowledge of her outside of one show and commercials so her lens is coming from that, It was so many years ago but i remember her character was incredibly annoying on One tree hill.
He’s terrific. He’s doing a fantastic job this season of being someone who is slowly realizing that he’s losing control over everything and he no longer in tune with the times
No question. Even in a great cast, Starr is the MVP.
I liked “Banshee” but Starr has sooooo much more to do in “The Boys” granted since he is the Homelander he doesn’t need to fight like he did, but between martial arts and sex that was like 90% of his character in “Banshee” and the dude is on a whole nother level in this show. Plus that guy was mostly cool and composed and Starr gets to be wild and unhinged in The Boys.
While I agree, Hood did excel in sex and violence there was alot of layers to his character. Its funny because I thought the violence sometimes told the story and revealed things about the character as much as any exposition could. Hood vs Proctor the first time for instance. The sex and violence on Banshee almost became a character onto itself.The PTSD from prison, his impulsive recklessness, the moments of honour/righteousness and the grief from 3×5 onwards, the s4 anguish I thought he had numerous impressive acting moments. Infact Similar to the boys Banshee was way over the top and unrealistic but I felt all the characters had substance which helped ground the kinetic energy of the show.
They definitely share a similar unrealism.But I think “Banshee’s” over-the-topness worked better than that of “The Boys,” mostly from “Banshee” not telling . . . let’s call it a topically political story, since “Banshee’s” plot certainly was driven by pulpy small town politics and, especially for Job in season four, the politics of revenge. And because “Banshee” was swimming in a more eccentric pool of characters.
On the other hand, “Banshee’s” fourth season could have done with a more “The Boys” style cohesiveness in how everything tied together. There were some absolutely standout scenes — again, mostly involving Job; “Have a nice short life, motherfucker,” anyone? — but the season as a whole was a narrative mess, which I’d put down to the front-half of baddies being faceless videogame-style mercs.Also, I’ve never read the comics, but I can’t be the only one who got the sense that the end of this episode was, at least in the way they shot it, a clever little reversal on the scene where Hood bites The Albino’s dick off?
Watching the after show and seeing Starr being himself was a real eyeopener for what he’s doing with Homelander. Most actors you see something of the “real” them someway in their portrayal, but I don’t even see any transference of mannerisms between the two.
Just really incredible.
Makes you wonder which is the real him..lol
Maria Menounos has also done “recon” on Bar Rescue several times! It’s always fun when she’s on the show
I had a weird little moment of my suspension of disbelief being broken during the We Didn’t Start the Fire singalong. Superheroes have been around since the ‘40s, and somehow that song is exactly the same?
Billy Joel was dropped by Vought Records, so he refused to mention their product in his songs.
Can Doppelganger imitate other supes’ powers when he takes their form? Because I kept waiting for the reveal that after the elevator scene, “Annie” was Doppelganger posing as Annie so he could spy for Homelander. If you pay close attention, Doppelganger is wearing the same copper/rose gold hoops in all of the scenes he appears in during this episode: it’s especially obvious at the end when he transforms into Homelander. Annie is wearing the same earrings during the travel and break-up scenes. It was back and forth the whole second two thirds of the episode: every time something about Annie felt “off”—the weird candy bar stuff, pushing Hughie to reveal just a few too many details about his plans, knowing the words to super old songs, sleeping in another room (because it “hurts” to hold the same shape too long), initiating sex—the show would backtrack to another scene that seemed to offer some sort of explanation for it all (like the backstory with her mom watching her food, turning off the lights with her power). However, something about her overall vocabulary/attitude just felt out of character from the park on.
Maybe in his version there were supes called Heavy Metal( who killed themselves) or Rockin Roller (who did ads for Pepsi and then got poached by Coke)
Maybe Billy Joel is a superhero and made all those things that he sings about happen?
I had the same problem with the Watchman movie. But I moreso just found that scene to be pointless and cheesy.
Good point! Didn’t catch this, but you’re absolutely right.
Anti-coconut chocolate almond sentiments really seem to be over-represented in writers rooms, judging by the amount of flak Almond Joys get in pop culture. Mounds too.
My theory is that all of Stormfront’s anti-Vought rhetoric is pure sleight of hand by Vought. Her fans love her and anything to do with her. Anything Vought does to “appease” her will be just smoke and mirrors. Performative changes to appear to be changing with the times while they continue to roll along making insane amounts of money and increasing profits.
It’s Trump, the RNC and ‘draining the swamp’
Rent free.
Capital subsumes it’s own critiques and all that stuff.
There’s a clear parallel between the whole Compound-V-You-Don’t-Fuck-With-The-Money debacle and the fact that Stormfront clearly isn’t getting in Vought’s way here.
My theory is that all of Stormfront’s anti-Vought rhetoric is pure sleight of hand by Vought.She better be, because narrative logic demands it! Consider: The Deep was thrown out of the Seven, not for a history of sexual assault, but for disrupting the marketing plan, etc etc, thus hammering home what various other incidents implied: Vought only cares if you mess with the business.Now in struts tiny sparky Stormfront, appointed to the Seven by Higher Powers, an anointed favourite by definition, despite nobody having ever heard of her… and she arrived with a pre-existing social media channel mocking Vought, which she almost immediately used as a platform to call for a protest against Vought, and encouraged people to congregate and form a mob at the base of Vought Tower, thus turning her employer’s plaza into yet another platform she used to mock and slander Vought solid for 90 seconds… …and then just to make sure she had literally all the media’s attention, she shot lighting from her hands, levitated with menacing grace, and then sonic-boomed out of sight……straight back to her Vought tower apartment., where we see her face no repercussions or indeed the inconvenience of interacting with any kind of handler or Ashley-grade rage-outlet etc. And this is all cool for me, because from her introduction in Ep1, I assumed she was part of at least a new Vought social media division, the “secret” is that her behaviour is not just tolerated but mandated by Vought. It has to be.Because when she “crashed” the supes in the military ad shoot, she arrived streaming, she needled Homelander while streaming, exposed the whole thing as a constructed fake base filled with actors, while streaming, and the only thing that Ashley the Vought Creature did was insist to Homelander that she didn’t know anything about this please don’t laser-face me honest etc…
So for me the “mystery” is exactly what is going on and how her racism fits into it and will her inability to not be racist mess up her mission (I’m guess yes) and will she actually turn out to be a tool Vought should never have unleashed etc…TL;DR: Captain America is racist and also a woman and also a Nazi and… worst of all… also a social media influencer.
This might be me babbling but it feels like the idea of some Captain America/Superman type superhero that represents the idealistic view of America seems kind of quaint and old fashioned these days. We’ll see what happens in November but it’s really hard to believe in any of that in light of the Trump presidency. Pushing Homelander, the Boys version of Captain America/Superman, aside to be replaced by a blatantly racist superhero backed by a fiercely passionate minority of supporters fueled by social media is more in keeping with the times. I don’t know if that’s what the show is going after with Stormfront but that’s how I’m seeing it.
I think in this instance Homelander is the Republican Party, and Stormfront is Trump – I think we’re going to see Stormfront go away eventually, but not before she turns Homelander into the sort of authoritarian Nazi figure that she is, essentially turning him from a bland All-American figure into… well, I think we know where it’s going.
Well said. I would add that Homelander is terrifying to everyone who truly knows him, including those who run Vought. Having Stormfront around to counter his raw power is an “enemy of my enemy is my friend” situation. A risky transaction but to keep their scam going, a necessary one.
Yeah her appearance is “shaking things up” with Homelander and inspiring some “real and genuine change” and Vought is using this as a distraction. Like whenever there is a sex scandal or gun violence and congress puts on a sham of policing their own to cause a distraction from their own ineptitude and ambivalence. The fact that Homelander is taking this so personally is something that Vought either hasn’t expected or is definitely counting on (using his petty jealousy to get rid of their nearly immortal elderly racist murderer image problem after her job is done).
Exactly this. In other words the typical functioning of capitalism/neoliberalism
You SHOULD watch You’re The Worst! I miss it so so so much. Aya Cash joining The Boys was the reason I started watching – thanks Aya! Love you forever!
I’ve never seen Aya Cash in anything before, but she’s amazing in this. I love her! #StormchasersFrenchie kissing K felt really wrong. Like he pulled a Marty McFly with his mom.
If you like her in this, definitely give You’re the Worst a try. Actually not that different of a performance, if you leave out the Nazi stuff and replace it with alcohol dependence!
Yeah, I love Aya Cash, but I feel like she’s one of those “actors” who really only has one character/persona.
I take it you’ve not watched Fosse/Verdon.
Wasn’t she also Nebula in “Guardians of the Galaxy”? I remember that cause I’ve seen her in the Marvel movies and “You’re the Worst” and noted some parallels like self-loathing, depression, loneliness, and envy.
Nebula is Karen Gillan
Yeah I got them confused. My bad.
Nah, that’s Karen Gillan, who is also a redhead, which could’ve been what caused your confusion.
Yeah she was in Doctor Who with the fez-doctor. I remember now, my bad. They do look similar, but that’s still no excuse.
Except that Karen Gillan is nine inches taller.
Aya Cash was better in You’re the Worst than this. By a lot. And that’s not in any way a criticism of her The Boys performance. She’s just that incredibly good in You’re the Worst.
For those who weren’t around or forgot, she won AV Club’s Best TV Performance of 2015, for Season 2 of that show. Entirely deserved.
https://tv.avclub.com/the-best-tv-performances-of-2015-1798287511
Her Gretchen was one the best performances I’ve seen on TV. Since You’re the Worst and the Leftovers were both airing around the same time, I always compared her to Carrie Coon- two actresses who appeared out of nowhere (they both mainly do theater) and just blew everything away. There’s little things Aya’s doing as Stormfront which is a bit like Gretchen but shows just how much fun she can be as an actress, like how she’ll flutter her eyes right before pulling a power move to show you that Stormfront has a lot of confidence and is also having a lot of fun.
Not buying at all that Butcher wouldn’t be all about the strategic value of Ryan. He’d definitely want to run away with Ryan, raise him in a cave somewhere until he could weaponize him against homelander directly in a few years.
Butcher has been vocally and stubbornly against getting any help from supes. The only good supe is a dead supe and all that. I’m more afraid Annie will end up killed by Butcher than by Homelander.
But Butcher just ‘unleashed’ Kenji against Homelander to save Hughie, and has (begrudgingly) been ok with Kimiko in their ranks. If there is a strategic gain to getting help from supes, he’ll take it.
He used Kenji as a weapon, and only because there was no other option left. He wouldn’t actively pursue such line of action if he could avoid it.As for Kimiko, he’s essentially ignoring her. He doesn’t argue with her presence to avoid conflict with Frenchie and the others, but he doesn’t even look at her, let alone interact with her. If he could have it his way, she would be dead, or at least out of there.If Butcher was even remotely interested in weaponizing supes, he would have encouraged Hughie to bring Annie to their side, instead of beating him because of it.
Him leaning on Kimiko and V to fight the Supes seems like a nod to the comics where they all take V to get on the level of garden variety supes and not be totally trounced by the Seven. No worries, that’s not really a comic spoiler, it is revealed in the second issue.
Not buying it. Butcher hates supes, for sure, but he also knows there is literally nothing at all that can stand against Homelander, so he’d be willing to make a compromise.
I don’t think Butcher thinks of Homelander as invincible. He believes that there’s always a way to kill a supe, he just needs to figure it out. (Doesn’t necessarily mean he’s right. We’ve seen no vulnerability in Homelander; he might not even be capable of killing himself.)
Sorry, but your supposition is based on no evidence.
Yes, that’s why I phrased it as “I think”. The only evidence we will have is how the show plays out from here.
This is slightly leaning on my knowledge of the comics, but I’m 100% with Becca here re: Butcher.
Ryan would have found himself in some kind of an unfortunate accident sooner rather than later.
You have to think about Butcher as a broke asshole Batman. He realizes that all supes are a threat because if they go bad they can do a shitload of damage before stopped. And the most powerful among them are scumbags controlled by Vought. Even if he wanted to train and weaponize his son… a flick of his sons wrist and hes dead.
Antony Starr is so, so good in this. Like, perfect for this role.I feel like Black Noir isn’t out to hunt Butcher to kill him but has something else more personal in mind, but he is such a cipher I have no clue what it could be.
Now that I’ve rewatched the episode, what stood out is Homelander’s joke about not knowing Black Noir’s identity. My guess is it’s going to be tied with that. Hopefully it’s not something silly like he/she is attracted to Butcher.
Homelander said Black Noir doesn’t identify with any race, not that he doesn’t know his identity.
I’m pretty sure that was the joke.
It might well have been a joke, an he might well not know, but it still doesn’t directly imply he doesn’t know.
Maria Menounos has a small but important scene in Tropic Thunder:
I love Stormfront! The character and her mannerisms minus all the clearly racist behavior coming our way. Like if she was a good superhero she would be my favorite.Also I love Black Noir.. at this point everytime he appears on screen the awkwardness kinda makes me chuckle. Not sure of his power, does he regenerate?
I love Stormfront WITH the racism. She’s a very entertaining obnoxious villain and I think she would have annoyed me as a good guy. But it’s also what bothers me a bit, in this day and age. The fact that she could be a charismatic role model for real life creeps.
You do have a point sometimes its just great to have a charismatic villain to entertain you until their defeat.
I think that’s what makes her so effective a a villain. She’s got the appeal and subtlety to bring over people who would turn away from the comic version of Stormfront, but underneath the surface it’s still the same race hate.(I haven’t read the comics, but I’ve read enough about them to find out that Stormfront was both a guy and an original-recipe Nazi, complete with German exclamations. Turning him in the too-cool-for-school memelord Alt-Right idol of the show was brilliant and perfect for today’s political atmosphere.)
You are right about comics Stormfront. Especially the part where he’s still a fire breathing Nazi they try to pass off as their version of Thor that destroyed the levees during Katrina in order to commit genocide against black people. So yeah, the Aya Cash version is much more toned down and more relevant and better acted.
Exactly, I agree. In the comics, as you mentioned, he was just some old guy nazi who went around being a very obvious stereotype. Like, he’d constantly talk about being an Ubermensch, mud people, so on. The Boys tv series was clever in showing that a pretty young woman with a huge social media following can 1) be just as racist 2) be twice as insidious because her racism is more subtle and woven into memes. I’m definitely a fan of their decision, especially how they handled comic book Strormfront’s longevity in the realm of the TV show and Vought rebranding.
Black Noir has a pretty clear Deathstroke/Deadpool aesthetic, so I’m guessing he has regen abilities along with enhanced strength/agility and combat skills.
Forget You’re the Worst (which, OK, was admittedly great), you should try to find Traffic Light to stream. In addition to Aya Cash, it has David Denman (Roy from The Office), Kris Marshall (Collin the British sex god from Love, Actually), Liza Lapira (Robin the ex-roommate from Don’t Trust the B—— in Apartment 23) and Kathryn Hahn (who needs no explanation). I loved this show but I may have been the only one.
That scene with MM and Annie bonding over their dads was really sweet, nice to see them finding some common ground despite their current situation.
They’re the two characters I care about the most (or I should say the only two I care about any amount). Nice and expected of MM to be able to immediately accept Annie, despite the fact that she’s technically one of their enemies (and a danger).
I was positive that in the car after the second scene where he talks about his dad MM would be like “Nah I made all that shit up” so nice to actually have some real insight into his past and why he helps that asshole butcher (atleast part of it is his duty tobutcher but also he needs to do the right thing)
I’m glad they had that scene too as I feel that both he and Frenchie were underused and underdeveloped in S1 so I’m glad they’re giving us more background into them. It was also a really well-done scene, very nicely written
Same, they need an episode where Frenchie gets the MM treatment and his development is furthered. Their rivalry in season one was ok but seemed made out of convenience for the writers so they could develop both of them at once by revealing one story (the reason why MM has a rift with the Frenchman). However, in S2 I feel like they should be fleshed out more and have more going on than just fallout over Mallory’s grandkids.
It’s interesting how thoroughly trapped all the women (besides Stormfront) have felt in Homelander’s orbit. He seems to love terrorizing and possessing them in this weird pathological way. One of the most creepy aspects of his character, he wants their approval so much, but loses it when they dare step outside the cage he built for them. The demonic “LOOK AT ME” he said to Ashley in the first episode is what I’m talking about in a nutshell.
Also, his father issues and need for approval are pretty solidly displayed in his interactions with Mr. Edgar. The show gender flipped a few people so Homelander’s creepy interactions with women are even more evident than in the comics, because he’s around more of them. Def agree about his stuff with Ashley, I really enjoyed the actor’s reaction to just how deathly afraid they were, and how whenever Homelander snaps his fingers in subsequent episodes they jump immediately. Sadly, the trauma seems so real even though I know they are just acting.
I wonder what the purpose is behind putting Stormfront on the team and letting her stir shit. Are they hoping for some sort of explosion?
Anybody thinking the CEO has mad superpowers and that’s why Homelander doesn’t fuck with him? Maybe he’s the original superhero or where V originally came from.
Nope. He’s the money man, and you don’t fuck with the money.
You didn’t watch and follow the first episode of the season where Edgar explains who invented Compound V and how and why he puts Homelander in his place?!?
With all the You’re the Worst posting, now I picture Edgar Quintero and not Stan Edgar when reading these posts!
Homelander for all his psychopathic bluster and the tension that he might kill anyone at any moment should they upset him, is offset by his obvious need to be loved and accepted. While he talks about being a god and possibly ruling as such, he very much needs people to rule and love him. He knows better than anyone that if he kills the wrong person, in the wrong place, he’ll lose most of what he wants. Also Edgar is a mystery to him and how much control, or lack there of, Vought might have over the heroes because they developed compound V is another uncertainty for Homelander I’m sure. This all dovetails nicely with Aya Cash’s Stormfront and her manipulation of Homelander. Edgar put her in the Seven for a reason and brining Homelander to heel is that reason. The great reveal that she’s Liberty and probably one of the first compound V heroes that Nazi scientists made, is incredibly effective into making her a despicable villain, on top of her actions last episode. How this plays out between her, Homelander, and Vought is one of more interesting threads of the season.
I agree with the part that her reveal as Liberty was good (though not great). What I really like about it was that it wasn’t dragged out. I can’t be the only one who thought “Oh, I bet that’s Stormfront” when Mallory was looking at the vintage Budweiser ad (which came from…somewhere…with the address of the sister of Liberty’s last victim). It didn’t take the whole season or even multiple episodes, it was introduced, it seemed obvious and then whoop there it is.What I really loved, which was essentially covered by the review, was the connection drawn between old-timey racism (like with the barn mural of Homelander with a Confederate flag cape) and modern racism (Stormfront talking about adapting to the social media era, using ‘clout’ to bring together a protest which no doubt included ‘normies’ that ended up cheering anti-immigrant rhetoric).I disagree that it made her a more effective villain. It’s pretty hard to top ‘murdering the shit out of a bunch of people because of their race’, and the reveal didn’t top it.
Oh I agree, it didn’t top it, it just added to it. She is a very bad, bad.
it all sounded just like Stormfront but maybe that’s because I’ve rewatched Aya Cash’s show You’re The Worst many a times.
They did an incredible job of adapting all those things from the comics and upgrading them for the show. While the Kimmiko/Frenchie angle is a little flat compared to the books, all of the Vought and Stormfront stuff surpasses them.
Anybody thinking the CEO has mad superpowersI saw an interview with Giancarlo Esposito where he said that exactly how he plays Edgar.Now, that may not be what the writers intended. But Esposito assumes that the CEO of a company that produces the superhero serum would have probably given himself a little dose or three.It would definitely explain why he’s not afraid of Homelander.
Yes, you should watch You’re the Worst. In my mind, the most underrated show of the last 10 years. Also, it seemed to me that the voice of Liberty in the flashback was Aya Cash–did I mishear that?
It makes sense that Aya Cash did the voice for Liberty, since at the end of that scene they find out that Liberty and Stormfront are the same person.Co-sign on the You’re The Worst rec, though. It stands right alongside Fleabag as one of the best deeply sad silly comedies ever made.
it seemed to me that the voice of Liberty in the flashback was Aya Cash—did I mishear that?The episode established Liberty and Stormfront are the same person, so why shouldn’t Liberty have the same voice?
I knew it was Stormfront the moment I heard Liberty say something- same voice as Stormfront
What did Becca hold up to the camera?
A cigarette.
Cigarettes. As an excuse for why she was leaving the house
Cigs and her lighter.
Homelander with a Confederate flag cape, painted on the side of a barn, in North Carolina? Yeah, that tracks.As a North Carolinian, I agree that totally tracks, but they specifically said they were going to Raleigh. I get frustrated when Hollywood depicts major cities as being farm country just because they are in the south. I mean, the biggest video game in the world is made in the Triangle.
I assume they’d have to drive by some barns in order to get to Raleigh from…New York? Where is this show supposed to be set again?
I’m really curious about the logistics of the place Becca lives. Her son has a math teacher, so I assume he has teachers for other subjects. Do they all live there full time or do they go home at night? Are there grocery stores? What are there entertainment options? She mentions they can’t get news, but do they have any TV? Netflix? Vought+? And garbage collection is every day? That seems excessive.
since Vought is hiding her I assume it is like one of those corporate campuses/retreats where all your needs are handled but also you can’t leave. Like in “The Circle” sort of only instead of getting passive aggressive they just bring in The Homelander.
Hey! Valerie ( the woman whose family was paid off) was played by Dawnn Lewis ..who was on futurama and is currently playing the captain in Star Trek Lower Decks!
Not to be pedantic, Roxana, but simply mentioning the name of a product or business isn’t the same as product placement.
Yeah, I’m not sure if those remarks are merely tongue-in-cheek. None of those were product placements, almost every film and show set in this century mentions some brand as a way to anchor the characters in reality, mill the audience’s own experience for comedy and identification, and so on.
Yea and I dont think talking about how no one except serial killers like almond joy is the type of advertisement they are looking for
Or that white supremacists pay their meme-monkeys with delicious piping-hot Arby’s.
Lol Arby’s was probably like *shrug* as long as someone likes our meats.
I just saw “Arby’s” and “delicious” in the same sentence without a qualifier like “not” and it there doesn’t seem to be irony either.2020 truly is a year like no other.
Okay we’re all fans here and not every scene has to be Arthur Miller, but who the fuck wrote that post-coital waste of three minutes with Butcher and Not Michelle Monaghan?I don’t even have to look up the transcript because he spoke exclusively in cliche:“I was supposed to look after you. But I wasn’t there for you. I can take care of you. Etc” Possibly in a slightly different order, but who cares.I spent the whole time nodding, because surely, surely Black Noir is about to rip the roof off or something? Homelander going to land and say oh isn’t this nice or something? Anything. Please God. They’re STILL talking? Oh and as for that bit about the garbage truck and Butcher does a sort of mental-double take and says: “It’s not a fucking compactor?”… ugh. I bet that Wired dialogue coach guy who rates actors doing accents would have something…. kindly and supporting to say about the “challenge” Karl Urban is facing with that script.
It’s funny you mention this, because all this time I’ve been trying to place where I’ve seen Becca before, and the dialogue here helped me out: I’ve seen her on CW! (I actually think she’s a lot better on this show, but still)
She also played Ryan Philippe’s wife in Shooter(TV ver).
That was a bad scene I agree
So it looks like they’re sticking to the comics version as far as Black Noir’s identity. This should be very interesting to see how Amazon pulls this off and watch.
So it looks like they’re sticking to the comics version as far as Black Noir’s identity.What makes you think so?
Same behavior. Especially seemingly more powerful than the other supers and the pilot skills. Keeping his background mysterious. Homelander mentioning he doesn’t know who he is and where he came from. When finding out that he wasn’t born with powers and instead was given powers by Vought using Compound V, Black Noir broke down in tears which is kind of the same tack as the comics.
Homelander mentioning he doesn’t know who he is and where he came from.If you refer to the Homelander/Maeve TV interview, he didn’t say that, he said he KNOWS Black Noir doesn’t identify with any race.Being mysterious and breaking down in tears because of the reveal could work with any version of the character they could come up with.And we didn’t see him much in action. He killed the terrorist, but was also easily stopped by Kimiko. As far as his identity being the same as the comics or a completely reworked one, I’d say it could still go either way.
1. He wasn’t easily stopped by Kimiko. It was actually the other way around. If it wasn’t for her regenerative abilities, she would’ve died. Add to that he was easily able to withstand Naqibs explosion while standing. He tore his head off with only his jaws. 2. Being mysterious and having the emotional/mental breakdown is what happened in the comics but the show is obviously depicting it in a different way. Again, the point is that they seem to be sticking to the comics version instead of making him have a very different personality like they are with the rest of The Seven.
I thought that line about Noir not identifying with any race was a joke about nobody ever having seen him out of his head-to-toe costume. The way Homelander hesitated before he said it…
Homelander clearly started to say “Black Noir is…” before realizing he had no idea what race he was and pivoting to what he said. Homelander realized in that moment that he’d never seen BN’s face. I had my suspicions that they’re following the comics based on several things already mentioned, but this moment sealed it for me.
Also that line in the first season where Homelander is tearing into the rest of the Seven for being distracted and lazy, then he gets to Noir and gives him a compliment and is all, “you’re doing great, man!” I saw that as a reference to Homelander not being able to insult a guy so… close to his own self.
Also:* BN has never spoken a word* Homelander realized right then that he’s never seen BN without his mask* BN is the only other one that Homelander likes (BIG FUCKING CLUE RIGHT THERE)
But Stormfront is, to put it in certain political terms, saying the quiet stuff out loud. And she’s doing so real loud!Vought wants happy little consumers reveling in their base instincts and they don’t care how ones gets to that point. When Homelander (50s Apple Pie conservatism) stopped doing the job they switched over to Stormfront (Modern era alt-right) just the same as unrestrained capitalism did in the real world.
They didn’t switch over. They need both brands because there are audiences for both, and neither one of them can win them all. Stormfront’s speech to Homelander was pretty clear about it. They’re not in competition, they speak to different people for the same goal of giving Vought more control over the public opinion.
It’s sort of the Trumpian idea that you don’t need to win over the majority of the public, you just need to rile up the base and win via electoral college and various shenanigans. You can also maybe look at it as a statement of the loss of a mono culture into more siloed cultures
I love how the series has gone to full on on the nose, mostly because viewers find it difficult in nowadays world full of noise to get things as, sorry for the dig, Church of the Collective being Scientology. The ambiguity is, actually, what the hell is anyone, heroes or anti heroes, to stop white supremacy (not much). Or Homelander actually killing himself because he does not turn himself on, he just hates himself. Or how A-Train as a black guy is only of interest to the system he is in if he is good at sports and discarded for anything else as soon as he is in a worse shape. Or almost.Frenchie, for God’s sake, that is the worst place to prepare a line, as if you didn’t have enough experience in the toilets. Though this scene follows the media tradition of lines being triple or quadruple the length of a real normal dose.Nice episode, nice power dynamics.
I liked that they used the Harry Met Sally (Jack Quaid’s mom) gimmick of the interviews interspersed through the action for the episode where Annie & Hughie hook up. Even though it turns out to be for Deep, I thought it worked well.
Overall it’s the relationship episode –
Hughie/Annie, Maeve/Elena, Frenchie/Kimiko, Deep/WeirdGirl coming together
Homelander/Madelyn, Bill/Becca coming apartWhich made me realise something bad had to happen to Doppelganger cos it was past 50 minutes of all feelings and no one had died…
Some lovely writing here
– Jordana Lajoie talking about Frenchie soaking her sheets with his sweaty despair
– Becca telling Butcher he was always one bad day away from going on a rampage.
Some guesses – there’s also realignment going on
– Homelander is setting Maeve “free” and Madelyn is truly dead now; probably puts him into the arms/thrall of Stormfront. Evil power couple.
– Black Noir is coming to help Butcher in some way. Count that as another breakup. Dude’s been lied to, so much it put him on the floor in tears. And he’s a ninja, so they’re not going to telegraph it more than that.
And my final take is that while I welcome the racial aspect – because you can’t discuss America without discussing race – everything is in the ha’penny place to Watchmen right now. No disrespect to anyone involved, but Watchmen is like Lorraine Hansberry or James Baldwin and this is closer to a very special Diff’rent Strokes. If the show was serious about this stuff, it would have highlighted it in S01. This is a small quibble, and a personal take. I hope they continue to make race a factor.
(apologies for the dupe post)
Lovely writing? The loveliest lines uttered this episode were A-Train’s “what the fuck is “Vought-for-Tots?” (fyi: apparently they are getting obese) followed by “Well SHIT, I fucking love fat kids. USE ME!”I was laughing so hard, Jessie (no not that) Usher killed the whole delivery.
It’s got something for everyone alright
Don’t mess with the money!
the only thing that irks me is why is Homelander’s costume so ill fitting? Everyone else’s fits amazingly, and his moves in weird places and is all odd in the crotch, like he’s wearing a costume of his costume.
I think it’s the padding. I noticed it with his tricep yesterday. The placement of it just looked wrong compared to where his body was.
When we see Antony Starr in Stillwell’s lingerie he’s clearly far less muscular than Homelander in his costume. Definitely the padding.
I’m not sure if that was his body. I know certain parts of the scene they had his head superimposed, and if he was playing both versions, I don’t know why’d they need to add his head onto his own body. I don’t know, though.
I also thought his head looked super CGI’d in the lingerie scene but wasn’t sure what the point of doing that was?
There’s a picture of him on Instagram wearing that lingerie so I would be surprised if he were superimposed.
Everytime they show him from behind and feature his big, almost too big cape, I always think about Edna Mole’s view on capes in the Incredibles
Can we all take a moment to imagine the high five that must have gone around the writer’s room when they realised they could KEEP the Nazism and lightning powers of Stormfront from the comic and replace the otherwise near blank page of the rest of his character……with a Captain America parallel who is amazingly completely unlike Watchmen’s The Comedian? Like that’s the real achievement here: deconstruct and reframe Captain America into something that doesn’t look like the Comedian.Also she was a secret racist as Liberty, then she went away for decades but now she’s back and with a new platform for her racism, and she’s super tiny but makes a lot of noise, and people are starting to get hurt, and are you getting it now? Pretty subtle stuff, yeah.It’s about how we’re a divided nation, maaaan, and that even if someone isn’t wearing a swastika, it doesn’t mean they’re not a Fascist, duuuude.
First time posting at A.V. after years of reading reviews….thank ya’ll I really enjoy the style and insight.Although I’m still struggling to be interested in what happens to most of “The Boys” themselves…I enjoy this series, though this episode only inches plot and motivation forward for me as opposed to feeling fully fleshed out.One thing that really took me out (and is a “me” problem for sure) is the depiction of Raleigh, NC. The reviewer notes that the confederate flag on Homelander painting on a barn tracks for North Carolina, and, yes it does for much of the state…but the part of NC they chose doesn’t really have the look or feel of what the episode portrayed. As a native of the state and someone who spent close to half my life in Raleigh as well, it took me out of that section…and kind of fits that “the South is all the same” narrative that shows do. It’s old hat at this point.Lastly, I was disturbed by Stormfront killing that guy in her role as “Liberty.” Mainly because his face looked like that of Emmett Till and whether or not that was intentional it was screwed up. I need more backstory regarding what happened that night…there seems to be something we’re missing Or need to know.
I agree as someone who is from and lives in NC. Like, I’m from Charlotte but I’ve driven all over the state and I agree that it felt “the south is all the same” even though I’ve seen some confederate flags in central/rural NC and in the mountains. To me a lot of times when shows want to show racism they feel they need to take a trip down south in order to do so, though that is a disease that infects every state, red or blue. Obviously they were going for a lynching metaphor, as well as probably an Emmett Till reference, and that did take place in the south, especially forty years ago, but Raleigh NC? That was an odd choice. Also, it was good of the Boys to at least acknowledge that white nationalism takes place in other parts of the US besides just the south by having Stormfront, in her new identity, be from the pacific northwest.
As someone who appreciates the work of Mr Billiam Joel this season’s been very good to me, but I couldn’t help but question whether a version of We Didn’t Start The Fire written in a universe where superheroes have existed since the forties would be exactly the same as the one we know?I mention this extremely pedantic point because for a brief, beautiful moment, I thought the show might be about to throwing around those Big Amazon Bucks by getting Billy Joel (or a suitable soundalike) to record a new version for the show, and it would be a big downer moment when the lyrics start mentioning supes.
“Homelander” (three syllables) is a great We Didn’t Start The Fire word
Well at least get Billy Joel to sing it the “right way”.
Poor Tom Hanks…
Fun fact, the album We Didn’t Start the Fire is on is Stormfront. That had to be an intentional selection given what happened on that trip.
Sorry to see Doppleganger go. I hope another one is introduced because that’s a key superpower. They got some great stuff out of him.. Honestly Doppleganger probably should have been in the Seven. I can’t overstate how useful shapeshifting could be for a shady company like Vought.
It’s a useful power to be sure but only in the hands of someone who is competent. Otherwise you’ve got Clayface in Harley Quinn
Yep. Plus it’s a much more useful power if you DON’T advertise it widely by putting him in the Seven.
Would be much harder to blackmail senators if they can just say that the shapeshifting guy in the Seven was behind it all.
In a world with no superpowered villains or at least giant robots, “superheroes” would not be seen so positively. They do not seem to be rescuing people from accidents and disasters much either.
This is the first episode of the series I really did not like at all. For the first time, it really seemed like they were straining to contort to what they wanted to do with the plot rather than it look organic.First, Stormfront having superpowers since what? The 1960’s? Does not really track with what this show said before. I watched season one right before the premiere and they heavily implied (in Homelander’s talk to the retired head scientist Vogelson) that homelander was the first super. And they never even hinted that he was somehow immortal or that happened a 100 years ago. So how long has compound V been around exactly? So Stormfront is not only immortal but does not age? I think they really, really wanted her to be around slaughtering african americans in the sixties and just threw out continuity. And what did the whole liberty reveal really give in return? Stormfront is racist? We already got that.And Billy’s wife basically blew up the whole arc of what we were shown before about Billy when she gave her reasons for not wanting to go. They have done TWO flashbacks with Billy’s character, and he in both looked very happy, did not hate superheroes and him and his wife had a great relationship. That was his entire arc’s point. Homelander raped and (what he believed) murdered his wife. Now all of a sudden he was some rage head that she was scared of? She voluntarily picked leaving him to have a rapists baby? Huh? And she did not tell him because she did not want him getting revenge? Well, that turned out great..lolI really thought she would nix the plan just because it was stupid. (jumping into a garbage truck seemed desperate and would not work) What is he really fighting for going forward in this unless they just kill him off? His wife picked having a rape baby over even telling him what happened to her.Finally, the whole Annie and Huey thing really was completely dependent on selling to us that Homelander somehow would be fooled that Starlight had no feelings for Huey. She stole compound V for him and obviously loves him..so how is having sex one more time or more times going to change that? So she did not have sex for him in a while and that equals she can fool homelander that he hates him? About the only good parts of this episode was the creepy dopplganger and learning more about MM. It was an F for me. Sorry.
She stole compound V also because it was the right thing to do and she does have feelings for him but was also very angry that their whole relationship is built on a lie. So her literal response to Homelander that He broke her heart and she wants to rip off his face isnt a lie. The frequent meet ups and the bonding to the trip could have caused her to forgive him and if they are together, if homeland asks her again then she would be lying.
We know that Compound V has been around since WWII, Edgar explained its origins. I don’t remember Homelander ever being implied to be the first Super, what was said exactly?
For your second paragraph: Compound V has been around since the early ‘40’s, developed by I-don’t-remember-his-name Vought using concentration camp victims as test subjects. Vought defected late in the war and the first publicly known Supes appeared around 1944. This was talked about when Homelander went to Mr. Edgar’s office and threatened to take his business elsewhere. And the reveal that Stormfront is Liberty doesn’t tell us that she’s racist, it tells us that she’s been around for a long time (which is probably going to come back to her relationship to Vought and other supers.)Becca Butcher lied to protect her husband. She knew that if she told him she was raped by Homelander he’d probably make a suicidal direct run at Homelander, or do what he did and take on a long-form crusade. So she went to Vought to deal with it. It didn’t go like she wanted it to, but given that she was raped by, and now essentially tangling with, a capricious god – she wasn’t going to be able to achieve an optimum outcome. She was alive, Billy was alive – that was as good as she was going to get. And she stayed with Ryan because despite the fact that he was the product of rape he was still her child. Vought was paying for her to stay with him and she got attached to the kid that she gave birth to. Which is why she stayed in the compound. It had been years since she was Billy’s wife, but she was Ryan’s mother a few minutes ago.Annie was able to fool Homelander by using a small truth – that he hurt her by using her – to sell the bigger lie. Tap into the truth, focus on the truth, ignore the false parts. But she couldn’t reignite a relationship with Hughie, because between her tracking chip and Homelander’s prying, the both of them (and by extension everyone around them) would be in danger if the two of them were to meet regularly in any way that wasn’t clandestine. But I do agree that learning about MM’s history/OCD was good. It ties into Hughie getting him hand sanitizer, although that was easy to ignore since anyone would want hand sanitizer if they were having to perform impromptu surgery on a regular basis as we see him doing in the premiere. And the callback of Doppelganger was good. It wouldn’t have even been amiss if we had spent more time with him, seeing Vought’s honeypot multitool dealing with trying to stay alive in the situation that he found himself in.
For your second paragraph: Compound V has been around since the early ‘40’s, developed by I-don’t-remember-his-name Vought using concentration camp victims as test subjects. Vought defected late in the war and the first publicly known Supes appeared around 1944. This was talked about when Homelander went to Mr. Edgar’s office and threatened to take his business elsewhere. And the reveal that Stormfront is Liberty doesn’t tell us that she’s racist, it tells us that she’s been around for a long time (which is probably going to come back to her relationship to Vought and other supers.)Becca Butcher lied to protect her husband. She knew that if she told him she was raped by Homelander he’d probably make a suicidal direct run at Homelander, or do what he did and take on a long-form crusade. So she went to Vought to deal with it. It didn’t go like she wanted it to, but given that she was raped by, and now essentially tangling with, a capricious god – she wasn’t going to be able to achieve an optimum outcome. She was alive, Billy was alive – that was as good as she was going to get. And she stayed with Ryan because despite the fact that he was the product of rape he was still her child. Vought was paying for her to stay with him and she got attached to the kid that she gave birth to. Which is why she stayed in the compound. It had been years since she was Billy’s wife, but she was Ryan’s mother a few minutes ago.Annie was able to fool Homelander by using a small truth – that he hurt her by using her – to sell the bigger lie. Tap into the truth, focus on the truth, ignore the false parts. But she couldn’t reignite a relationship with Hughie, because between her tracking chip and Homelander’s prying, the both of them (and by extension everyone around them) would be in danger if the two of them were to meet regularly in any way that wasn’t clandestine. But I do agree that learning about MM’s history/OCD was good. It ties into Hughie getting him hand sanitizer, although that was easy to ignore since anyone would want hand sanitizer if they were having to perform impromptu surgery on a regular basis as we see him doing in the premiere.
Annnnnd we have another contestant who wasn’t paying attention to the last couple of episodes.Re-watch the conversation between Edgar and Homelander first episode of the second season. Judging from that, Volgeson appears to have lied to Homelander, as he seriously didn’t know who invented Compound V, where it came from, and how long its been around, as Edgar explained to him, and the audience everything. Its also taking a cue from the orignal comic that Compound V majorly slows down aging, but it doesn’t make you immortal. Compound V is basically the super soldier serum that was given to Cap America, only that the Nazis invented it first in this universe. Also, according to the comic that seems to be a plot on the show too, Stormfront was created by the Nazis but was brought over here and rebranded by Vought into an American superhero, but Vought didn’t take the Nazi ideas out.And you also really need to rewatch last season. Becca wasn’t raped. She willingly had an affair with Homelander, got knocked up by him, and Vought covered it up from both Homelander and Butcher by putting her into hiding and forcing her to play along with the coverup, which she did in order to protect her baby.
Okay, so at first I wondered whether Becca was actually raped or not. It seemed inconclusive. Then we saw her literally say that the child was a product of rape. What are you using to base this unequivocal idea that it was a consensual affair?
Where are you getting the idea that Becca had an affair with Homelander from? Every thing they have shown us of Becca since she snuck out of that room at Vought tower seems very consistent with her being raped by Homelander. Also, her body language when she was in her living room alone with Homelander seemed consistent with that of a woman who believes she is at risk of bad things happening with the guy nearby.And didn’t she start a reply to Homelander with “After what you did to me” during his visit?
She literally says “I got raped” in this episode. And the CCTV (after she comes out of the room, and leans against the wall) was pretty clear as well.
What the heck? She absolutely was raped. There was no affair. The last season never made it clear whether or not she was raped (Homelander implied it was consensual last season but he’s HOMELANDER. Consider the sheer power differential there: there’s no person in the world who’d dare say no to Homelander just because they’d be terrified of having their eyes burned out, and unless they genuinely want to have sex with him, otherwise, it’ll still be rape. For that matter, Doppelganger was clearly raped by Homelander this episode too.), but this season makes it absolutely clear she was raped. Becca basically says as much to both Homelander and Butcher.
> And you also really need to rewatch last season. Becca wasn’t raped. She willingly had an affair with HomelanderDoesn’t track with her talking about “what you did to me” to Homelander.
Not that it matters but this was maybe my favorite episode in the run of the series so far so . . .
I just don’t understand why someone would not only raise their rapist’s child. Are the bonds of motherhood that strong? How do you know if you’re not raising a Brightburn or at least another sociopath?
From what I understood Becca was raising the kid in that hellhole as a deal she made with Vought and Homelander over not killing Butcher? Homelander wants a “normal family life” with his son and Becca doesn’t want him to kill Butcher. She said if Homelander killed Billy she’d commit suicide in front of Ryan and say it was Homelander’s fault, something he definitely doesn’t want to scar his kid with.
Well if she thinks Billy is such a hateful person, might as well let both die. A psycho and a potential psycho are removed. Win win. Even if the kid isn’t a psycho, this isn’t a good world to bring any child to
The deal with Vought part is correct but Becca’s deal with Homelander over Butcher’s safety started this season.
I totally agree and that’s why I find Butcher’s take on the situation to be perfectly reasonable. I’m amazed at how harsh commenters are being on him
I liked the episode, especially getting to know more about MM, but the characters sure make some odd choices. Homelander almost kills Annie due to her alleged relationship with Hughie and she then follows this up by… immediately meeting up with Hughie in public and going on a long road trip with him.Then again, last episode Hughie was leaving voicemail messages to Annie that spilled the beans on her actions against Vought, so maybe they’re perfect for one another.
I thought the episode was tense only because both Annie tagging along with Hughie and MM and Butcher going to visit his wife veered awfully close to being too stupid of a plot choice to work as both would seem to be incredibly dangerous. Like how much freedom does Annie have to just pick up and go to NC without anyone else from Vought or other members of the 7 not caring or watching her?
Didn’t Annie say she had a relative in NC and that was her excuse to Vought?
She did but she’s also one of the most famous people in the planet, an employee of an evil corporation and held in suspicion y her coworkers. It’s hard to believe the members of the 7 can just disappear like that for a day or two. Annie has that Clark Kent thing going on where I’d she wears glasses and a hoodie, nobody knows who she is
I agree, she’s so famous her song shows up on the radio on two different stations at the same time! Like they played that for laughs but it is an indication of how famous she is and how flimsy the “cousin in NC” excuse is. Like, she used the whole “best lies involve kernels of truth” thing with her real feelings about Hughie’s lying disguising her own lie, but I still think the only reason she isn’t dead now is that Black Noir is on Butcher, Maeve doesn’t care, A-Train and her have a sort of truce, Deep is busy in a cult, and Homelander is losing his damn mind and is/was distracted by Stormfront and Doppelganger.
I agree to an extent, and my wife had the same “wouldn’t someone instantly recognize her face” question, but I pointed out that in her public appearances with the Seven she’s got large amounts of makeup/hair/glam applied, and I do genuinely think that would make a big difference. We’re used to seeing Tom Cruise in full makeup/hair/big screen, etc., and if we saw some short guy walking along who kind of looked like Tom Cruise but was wearing regular schlubby clothes and had kind of messy hair and so forth, I think a large percentage of people wouldn’t think anything more than “oh, maybe that guy looks a little like Tom Cruise from a certain angle.”
Not particularly relevant to the episode in question but I had root canal surgery on Friday and as the local anaesthetic wore off around my mouth I couldn’t help but think this is what Anthony Starr must feel like.
Antony(Sexy) Underbite
It’s ‘Anthony’ when your mouth is all numb from anaesthesic
It’s a bit weird that every single superhero series lately seems committed to going back to 1960s, southern racism as a plot device.
This season lacks focus and an emotional core. Hughie barely feels like a supporting character, let alone the protagonist. There are too many characters and perspectives overall. The tone isn’t as precise. It feels a lot more like a soap opera, and a lot less biting and satirical.
I disagree and I’m really enjoying this season more than the first but whatever. I agree with you that Hughie is no longer the protagonist and I think it’s great. He’s a drip
If they change the protagonist who cares, but the show should have a protagonist. As it is its an incoherent mess of plot threads.
Yes, watch You’re the Worst. I’ve watched tons of shows, but nothing else comes close to the emotional catharsis that show provides.
Kind of unhealthy of Butcher to put all the weight on Becca in yet another bad boy “you saved me from myself” trope. Like, not only does she have to take care of herself in this world, post-rape, raise the child of her rapist in the most dangerous environment ever, but now she has to go back to making sure you don’t snap and murder people cause you can’t get your anger shit together Billy, really?
Frenchie is still my favorite but his relationship with The Female was so much more charming in the comics.
I like how they plucked Stormfront from the haven of white supremacy, the pacific northwest, but then showed she was from the other haven of white supremacy, the south. Surprised she wasn’t from somewhere deeper, I’m from NC and I know there are more racist places than Raleigh. Then again, this took place 40 years ago.
MM was definitely having more fun than he let on, but I’m glad he reminded the kids they weren’t on a field trip. Sometimes he’s the only one taking this seriously, so I’m glad he rubber off on Starlight and she shut down Hughie. Can’t keep up a relationship when she has to work in the same building as the Homelander, dude.
Interested to see what Stormfront has to stop Homelander if he really tries to laser eyes her.
Yeah I was wondering about that. She starts talking him down and seemed a little worried. I was wondering if he could laser her the way he does everyone else or if she had a way of stopping it
I loved watching Homelander angrily consume Stormfront memes.
nothing goes with superhero hijinks like a good, finger-wagging scolding. sweet.
I’m sure this has been pointed out, but everytime I see Homelander in my peripheral vision I’m convinced he’s being played by Wedding Crashers era Bradley Cooper.
I think Vought hired Stormfront because they’re tired of Homelander’s shit, and her taking over as the “face” of The Seven will make it easier for them to kick him off the team eventually.
Stromfront seems to be taking advantage of this to advance her agenda, but is smart enough to not be open about her racism…yet(which is why she abandoned the Liberty ID). As others has theorized, Vought has to be at least aware of her anti- Vought trolling, and are ok with it because it’s all part of her “Edgelord” image.
Stormfront is definitely a confirmed mole in the Seven working on behalf of Edgar/some shadowy corporate deep-state group at Vought to keep the Seven and Homelander under control. As Edgar so beautifully pointed out earlier in the season, the supes are not Vought’s primary product, they are just pretty floor models that showcase the core IP. However, because of their special powers and public personas they (and specifically Homelander) have the power to exert an outsize influence on public perception of Vought. Just think about the potential backlash if Homelander had actually gone through with his mass slaughter fantasy at that rally (more like when he goes through with it). And I know we all loved Edgar’s nerves of steel facedown of angry Homelander but that doesn’t change the essential fact that if Homelander snapped he could kill Edgar any time he wanted to (unless he’s got something up his sleeve like a super power reveal, but I think that would be cheap). Edgar is definitely not the type to take threats to either his life or Vought’s stability lightly and for sure has been working on a way to eliminate that vulnerability . Cue Stormfront: a supe just as powerful and just as crazy Homelander but wayyy smarter. She’s like the uber-Homelander – without the psychological hangups from toxic masculinity that have made him into an emotional cripple. She’s got the same sadistic “master race” view of regular people as Homelander, but she can talk to them for more than five minutes without it showing; the same psychotic penchant for violence but with enough self-control that she’s not in constant danger of blowing a gasket and massacring everyone in sight; the same desire to dominate and control but coupled with the emotional intelligence needed to be subtle and manipulative, instead of solely motivating people through fear. Vought doesn’t have a problem with Homelander because he is evil and does awful things, that’s pretty much their business model. No, they have a problem with Homelander because he is extremely unstable and the potential consequences of him losing control would be catastrophic. With Madelyn no longer there with her sex-mom-snake-charmer routine to calm him down he was going off the deep-end, but it looks like Stormfront has successfully maneuvered her way into that role and, because Homelander is so easy to manipulate, this makes her the de facto leader of the Seven. I just don’t see her rapid rise to the top plus the suppression of her past as Liberty as happening without approval from the very top of of the corporate hierarchy. She doesn’t seem like the type to be content with just being a corporate stooge so I’m sure she has her own agenda, but, for the moment at least, her own personal interests are closely aligned with those of Vought corporate leadership. Unlike Homelander, Stormfront is smart enough to understand that they NEED Vought, because it provides them with the cover they need to carry on indulging their homicidal fantasies unmolested. They get to kill with near impunity; people come in after to clean up their mess, disguise it as hero work, and protect them from scrutiny; and they live in luxury and are worshipped as heroes – really the perfect set-up if that’s the kind of thing you’re into. But to get the perks they have to be making Vought money and an out of control Homelander is bad for business, thus the need to keep him happy but on a very short leash. Both Stormfront and Homelander are such great characters. Such a knack for casual cruelty and the contrast between their public/private selves is so funny. Just great political satire, with the writers throwing a bit of shade on both ends of the political spectrum. Homelander’s cynical use of patriotism, xenophobia, appeals for a “return to Judeo-Christian values” and the many other catch-phrases of American conservatism to disguise his embrace of his own brand of hyper-masculine, ethnonationalist, God-king based Fascism is such an on-point slam of the modern Republican Party. And then Stormfront as the new woke supe brought in to appeal to liberals and the coveted 18-35 demographic is perfect. She’s got the intersectionality angle covered because she is a woman, has an undercut(aka a powerful statement of solidarity with the queer community), and she’s an outspoken supporter social justice and anti-establishment causes. She’s tech savvy and she has the kind of live-streamed “window into my life” video-based online presence that has been perfected by YouTube streamers that we are seeing co-opted by more and more influencers and brands for their social media marketing campaigns and I think the writers manage to capture the cheesy corporate whiff that this kind of “natural brand engagement” almost inevitably has. The cherry on top for me, though, is that she’s from Portland (loved the Seattle neg from Maeve lol) because the whole irony about her progressive persona is that it is cover for her deep-seated bigotry and violent racist history and that is SO Portland. Nowadays many people’s idea of Portland comes from Portlandia and they think of it as this Mecca for young silly hipsters and over-the-top coastal liberals. However, just like Stormfront, there are dark racial undercurrents in that Portland is still to this day a VERY White city in the middle of a VERY White state with a history as a hotbed for White Nationalist groups. We saw those tensions boil over there just last month in a very tragic way and, while the showrunners obviously didn’t know Portland would be in the news like this when they were writing, I do want to believe that there was more to picking Portland than its spot at the top of the list of easy liberal cities to make fun of. It just fits too nicely with my own personal narrative about the show’s sense of humor.
Anybody else think they are setting up Stormfront to be Homelander’s mother? Or am i forgetting something from Season 1?
Stormfront is something else. I love it