This post discusses major plot points of The Boys episode “Butcher, Baker, Candlestick Maker.”
Okay, seriously. WHO IS EXPLODING THE HEADS? We are very nearly at the end of this second season of The Boys. There are major shifts happening involving the makeup of the Seven, the “first natural-born superhero Ryan,” and the Boys’ ongoing quest for revenge against Homelander. But I must admit that all of these other subplots pale in comparison with the televised bloodbath of a Congressional hearing that concludes “Butcher, Baker, Candlestick Maker!” It was a very effective cliffhanger, and I’m still pretty grossed out about it.
This episode was riddled throughout, actually, with staggeringly good, deeply upsetting scenes that show us how high the stakes now are. The cold open might be the most disturbing thing I’ve ever watched on TV, as we saw Neil from Community become radicalized by Stormfront’s ceaseless fearmongering, white-supremacist language, and supe-terrorist conspiracy theories. These few minutes were really effective in how they captured that fan-to-follower transformation that Stormfront had mentioned to Homelander, and in methodically laying out the indoctrination that Stormfront is hoping to spread. Tommy Peterson (Charley Koontz) has a Stormfront Funko Pop figure, he spends all day watching her news appearances, he listens to her push back against the Congressional hearings led by Congresswoman Victoria Neuman, and he actually seems to believe that store clerk Kuldeep Singh (Kris Siddiqi), a man he has seen every day for who knows how long, could secretly be a bad guy. His skin is a different color. He has an accent. Maybe Tommy saw a glimmer in his eyes, the sign of a supe-terrorist waiting to attack. And if Tommy doesn’t bring down the bad guy, he’s hurting Stormfront: “I am counting on you. Don’t let me down,” she says, and sure, she wasn’t speaking directly to Tommy, but yes, she was speaking to countless people just like Tommy who are looking for some direction and some purpose, and are willing to kill to please a person on whom they have projected their own desires. The use of “What a Wonderful World” was inspired, and by that I mean, I am not going to be able to listen to that song again for a long time!
The murder of innocent people like Kuldeep Singh is exactly what Stormfront wants, so of course when she and Homelander offer “thoughts and prayers” to his family, it’s all a bunch of crap. At the rally where the pair of them whip up the crowd, we see the effects of Stormfront’s ideology captured in attendee signs (against SJWs, and encouraging “the new War on Terror”), but Stormfront almost seems … bored by her success. The episode then pivots Stormfront into Mom mode by having her coo over a baby that reminds her of her daughter’s infancy, and seeing a way to please his new girlfriend, Homelander decides to introduce his son Ryan to Stormfront. I felt for Becca during this entire ordeal as Stormfront acted like the worst new girlfriend of all time, but I must also admit that I was surprised by how quickly Ryan turned against his mother. I thought Ryan’s behavior up until this point had been skeptical of Homelander and defensive of Becca, but man, did he jump quick into hating her and calling her a liar! And again: Isn’t Becca’s house under surveillance at all times by Vought? Wouldn’t Vought be upset about Homelander and Stormfront essentially kidnapping Ryan? I don’t know! Seems weird!
But I suppose Vought has bigger problems on their hands, between Annie’s breakout of Vought Tower, assisted by Hughie, Lamplighter (and his hand), and Maeve, and former CSO Jonah Vogelbaum’s decision to appear before Congress at the Compound-V hearings as a witness. Let’s discuss Annie’s escape first. After her clueless but well-meaning mother asks Vought if they can go on vacation, Vought acts on the knowledge—which I guess they’ve had all along?—that Annie leaked the Compound-V reveal to the press. They take her and her mother into custody at Vought Tower, sealing Annie in a superpower-diffusing cell reminiscent of the plastic one Magneto was in during X2, and claim that Annie is a traitor responsible for Translucent’s death. Homelander wants to kill her, but then goes off to introduce Stormfront to Ryan instead—opening the door for Hughie and Lamplighter to sneak into Vought Tower.
Shawn Ashmore’s time as Lamplighter was brief, but I enjoyed his fatalist humor this episode, from his “Boom, bitches!” when his hand scan works to his despondent “They moved my statue?” before setting himself alight in a moment reminiscent of Thích Quảng Đức’s famous death. The fire forces an evacuation of the building and sets in motion Annie’s escape, Black Noir’s near murder of her, and Maeve’s rescue of Annie by activating Black Noir’s tree-nut allergy—showing us that the queen, despite the breakup with Elena, still has some sense of heroism left. And while that’s going on, Hughie takes Lamplighter’s separated hand (please, I do not want to remember how gross that scene was, do not make me) and frees Annie’s mom. Previously in the episode, during their interrupted coffee date, Annie had told her mother, “I gave my whole life to nothing. What we do means nothing.” But that’s not necessarily true, is it? Yes, the Seven are hopelessly controlled by Vought. Individual moments of sacrifice still matter, though—I’m not saying that Lamplighter is a hero, because he’s still an asshole. But his death helped save other people’s lives. Could that help shift Annie’s perspective?
The problem with Lamplighter’s death, though, is that he was going to appear at Congresswoman Neuman’s hearings as a witness to what Vought and Stormfront were doing at Sage Grove. In his death, then, the only option the Boys have is to recruit another former Vought member with knowledge of Compound-V: Vogelbaum, who was responsible for the creation of Homelander. Vogelbaum feels some regret for this, I think—there is almost affection in his voice when he says that as a boy, Homelander loved the woods, Teddy Roosevelt, and manifest destiny, which, you know, OF COURSE HE DID—but when Mallory first asks for his help, he rejects her and MM. “Moral compromise does have its privileges,” and that means that Vogelbaum doesn’t have to do anything he doesn’t want to do. He can stay in his palace and in his retirement and in his complicity, and that’s that.
But that whole “moral compromise” thing doesn’t apply to just Vogelbaum. Butcher is an ace at messy morality, and he won’t take no for an answer. He arrives unexpectedly at Vogelbaum’s place. He drives across his yard. He threatens his “whole fucking family” to get what he wants. And when Vogelbaum agrees, Butcher is triumphant. Look at the gusto with which he sits down alongside the rest of the Boys, plus Annie and Annie’s mom, to watch the Congressional hearings! Butcher put on his best black turtleneck sweater for this, and he lets that “Gotcha, cunt!” roll off his tongue! They even made popcorn! And then the heads start exploding, and the blood starts spraying, and everything the Boys have worked so hard for goes to shit. Again. How many times can they keep doing this? How long until anything they do actually seems to matter? I guess we’ll find out next week, with the season finale “What I Know.”
Stray observations
- “You die twice, once when you stop breathing and the other when someone says your name for the last time” was actually a lovely line that almost made me tear up! What the hell, The Boys!
- Kimiko starts teaching Frenchie her sign language. The first word she teaches him is “gun.” It is very on-brand and somewhat adorable.
- Quoting Butcher’s analysis of Congress here for, uh, no reason at all: “Congress. Please. What a corrupt bunch of fucking cunts they are. … What the fuck are you good for? A sharply worded tweet.”
- I must admit that I’m bummed the Black Noir of the show does not seem to match the Black Noir of Garth Ennis’ original comic books. That would have been such a good reveal!
- I want to know more of Becca’s favorite movies. The Blind Side and Dances with Wolves? Is Becca just really into Academy Award winners? Or are these some of her favorites because they are always on TV, and Becca can never leave the house? If so, please let Gladiator be in the mix, so we can get a LEGO adaptation of the “My name is Maximus Decimus Meridius” speech.
- Much respect to Annie for rejecting a unicorn frappe. The Lisa Frank treatment of coffee … we do not need it!
- Someone in the comments had mentioned a few weeks ago that not every depiction of a product is, as I had been labeling them, product placement, and because I personally, cynically believe that all press is good press, I didn’t necessarily agree. But Almond Joy is the candy that puts Black Noir in a vegetative state? Now I’m conflicted! Is that product placement? Do the writers of this show just hate the best candy bar on the planet? How to feel!
- I have so many questions about how Lamplighter had all the Seven-inspired porn at Grace Mallory’s house. Did he ask the Boys to stop by his place to pick up the DVDs after the destruction of Sage Grove? Did he buy them on the way to Grace Mallory’s house? Was this a same-day Amazon-delivery situation? How are these Lamplighter’s most-prized possessions?! (Best lines of the episode go to Jack Quaid’s delivery of “This isn’t healthy. You can’t watch porn while the sun’s out!” and “Let’s go fuck the wife … consensually!”)
- Butcher’s parents’ storyline felt tacked-on to this episode, no? Butcher’s friction with his father has a bit more weight in the comics, but it felt rushed here, like the only purpose was to share with us how Lenny died. At least we got a Lord Of The Rings reunion with Karl Urban and John Noble out of it.
- In another “Yes, obviously this is Scientology” moment, we learn that the Church of the Collective has banned Eagle the Archer for being a “toxic” personality. Alright! Whatever!
- Ashley’s put-upon moment of the episode: Her shrieked “This is not lesbian!” upon finding a despondent, dumped Maeve in bed with two guys. And vaping, no less.
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The opening was chilling. You know where it’s going, but the pure mundanity of the execution (both of the sequence and the literal murder) was scary shit.I love seeing Annie and Hughie smiling and each other. And also Frenchie and Kimiko smiling at each other. Lots of good smiles in this show.The ending = a holy shit moment in an episode full of them. Can’t believe we only have one more episode to go. Feels like we only just got started.
That Annie Hughie smile at the end was soooo cheesy but undeniably sweet
Nah, it’s creepy when Jack Quaid smiles because then he goes full Odo and morphs into his dad.
If you look up “shit eating grin” in the dictionary you may see a picture of Dennis Quaid.
And if you check the thesaurus, you’ll see Jack!
There’s something about an under-the-eye headshot that seems incredibly visceral. We’re so accustomed to the John Wick between-the-eyes style that the clerk’s death feels realistic in a way so many cinematic deaths just don’t.
Reminiscent of Vito Corleone’s under-the-eye headshot on Don Fanucci.
This could only happen because Netflix removed the D&D episode that stopped Neil falling down the dark path.
XD
I literally spend the $10 to buy the entire season 2 of community on amazon. Noone takes away the origin of Fat Neil from me. No one!
Unless I’m mistaken, the episodes removed from Community and 30 Rock includes Amazon and Apple streaming service “purchases”.
You are indeed mistaken in this instance. I am happy to report I watched the first Community Dnd episode within seconds of buying the season.
I’ve put off watching Community with my partner because it honestly felt kind of pointless without the episode. I think I’ll go this route too.
There were two things what could stop Neil from killing himself: Dungeons and Dragons, and ideological extremism!
Wait, WHAT??? Netflix removed ‘AD&D’? One of the finest half-hours of TV comedy EVER MADE??? WHY? Was it Chang’s blackface?? (He was a Drow, ffs!!)
It was exactly why you suspect
That is… how do I say it? Dumb. That’s like pushing back the Philip Guston retrospective because of the Klan imagery. Guston was a lifelong anti-racist who loathed the Klan and everything they stood for. Particularly as a jew who came up during the 40’s, he was constantly holding a mirror to the USA and demanding it confront the bigotry baked into its culture. But because there are hooded figures in his pieces, museum directors don’t want to show the work. They are masterpieces, very likely the greatest paintings ever produced by a U.S. citizen. But people can’t have a conversation or learn context anymore, so they’re radioactive. Which only gives comfort to the demented perception of victimhood indulged by the same racists and dumbfucks who were Guston’s real targets.So fucking dumb.
Oh, my guess is this is Compound V (though Cindy will be blamed) and part of a conspiracy between Vought, the Church and our fascist duo.
The opening was great the ending was great, the show is really hitting its stride. The Butcher-family shit was shoehorned in to get him to compare Vogelbaum “toughening up” Homelander with his own dad…perhaps we are not so different, you and I! As far as head exploder, I am going to make a wild guess that Edgar is a super because Giancarlo Esposito is a supervillain in Mandalorian and Breaking Bad, why not here too? A few intimidating sneers are not enough for this man.I am hoping we get a Frenchie-like flashback for Black Noir, guy deserves more of a character. All superhero movies have the people’s powers vary depending on what they are needed for…this time I felt like Starlight should have had more of a shot against Black Noir. I wouldn’t be surprised if he doesn’t have eyes, though.I do appreciate when a big show like this takes on Scientology even if they are hitting all the points we know. I remember hearing stories about people that went to some thing thinking it was just like Jenna Elfman or Erika Christensen speaking or something and then weren’t allowed to leave until they signed up for things. Which is a crime.
I felt like Starlight should have had more of a shot against Black Noir.I wrote last week how Starlight keeps oscillating between Captain Marvel and Dazzler. She just had a Captain Marvel moment when she blew up the cell, then she meets Black Noir, and ouch, back to Dazzler we go. Except another thing they do (that most shows involving characters with supernatural powers do) is having any supe being able to withstand any other supe’s attacks. Black Noir threw her around the room like a puppet, but then when she was back in Boys HQ, she didn’t even have a scratch. See also Kimiko having her head smashed against concrete one hundred times at supersonic speed by A-Train, and being just mildly stunned.Turns out Lamplighter was not resistant to his own fire, instead, just like Acid Vomit Guy to his own acid. Guess a supe’s resilience is directly linked to their billing in the credits. 🙂
The power scaling on this show is inconsistent to an extent but in my opinion Starlight has never been that strong where I thought she could take anyone else in the seven apart from the Deep. I thought she would do better since this isn’t comics Noir but he beat her pretty easily. My attempts are in seeing their resistance to Bullets. When Kimiko was being shot the bullets were hitting her and we saw Starlight get slowed down by Butcher but without damage. Whereas Homelander and Maeve literally have bullets bounce off them. Even Cindy last week was hit with bullets, they didn’t bounce off but left her largely undamaged like the formers. Than again Noir can be shot also but the explosion he survived and this is just a guess but I think it would have done more damage to or even kill Starlight and Kimiko. So far Homelander and Stormfront seem to be way above everyone else with Maeve slightly behind
I think she’s just untrained. Have we seen her do any legit fighting?
She’s had training but not Vought level lab raised training,
Eh I kinda consider that basic hero shit. Like, Popclaw could do that.
She beat up the date rapists in season 1.
There definitely seems to be a whole spectrum of resistance to powers in general/other supes’ powers, as (possibly) demonstrated by the head popping at the end–although that seemed targeted enough that it could be Vought-organized as opposed to Cindy taking her revenge. (I’m still torn at this point.)
I’m still a little hazy on how Starlight’s powers are defined (can she feed off Stormfront’s electricity, for example?), but I definitely want to see her kicking ass without restraint.
But Starlight can shrug off bullets so why would she have scratches?Also, Dazzler would have fucked Noir up
Starlight can shrug off bullets so why would she have scratches?Because Black Noir is not a bullet. Or you can rephrase your question by asking why Black Noir was fighting her if he can’t harm her.
I was more saying she wouldn’t necessarily have obvious marks based on her previously shown resistance to injury. Like she was obviously being hurt, just like the bullet hurt her, but not as much as the force of the blows would have otherwise implied.
Or in Acid Vomit Guy’s case, linked to their biling (I’ll see myself out).
Edgar isn’t a super powered being as it would undercut his entire purpose, which is to serve the role that the writers 100% fucked up with Elizabeth Shue’s gender bent version of the Stillwell character. In the comics, Stillwell was a cold, cruel, and dispassionate corporate stooge who’s entire life was dedicated to being the chief cat herder for Vought’s super-hero division. He was 100% about keeping the heroes in line and basically stopping the Boys/protect the company, but did so in a manner that was so cold and emotionless that it made him comic Butcher’s foil. His defining moment was when he basically dared Homelander to kill him in the comic, when Homelander was on one of his earlier “I can do anything and no one can stop me!” kicks and came by to let Stillwell know he wasn’t going to stop the next time Stillwell ordered him to stop doing something. Stillwell basically told Homelander to go ahead in the most apathetic way possibly, showing zero fear as Homelander (at his most scariest) threatened to go on a Kid Miracleman type murder spree as he accused Homelander of being a talentless thug who only knew violence and that him breaking bad wouldn’t cure him of his lack of talent or ambitions beyond only wanting what he wanted at that moment in time and how he would be glad to be one of the first victims of this spree so he wouldn’t have to see how boring Homelander being a murderous villain would be. A move that deesclated Homelander’s foul mood when he realized that Stillwell wasn’t afraid of him in the slightest and saw him as a coward by calling his bluff like he did. The hiring of Esposito was a mid-season one audible because they realized they fucked up making Stillwell a generic female executive who’s entire character was devoted to being a surrogate mommy for Homelander to fixate on. The confrontation we got early in season two, where Edgar shuts down Homelander when Stormfront first joined is the point of the character: the cold, crooked, dispassionate corporate executive cat herder who can make even Homelander quake in submissive fear.
interesting download, but the writers have been clear that they are willing to take any liberties they wish, applying Ebert’s law of conservation of characters, it would most likely be Goran Visjnic blowing up heads as his part of the deal to get A-Train and The Deep back in the Seven. Don’t confirm for me whether that is true in the comics, I don’t want to know.
They’re so radically different in the comics. None of this even remotely happens, also in the comics, A-Train is white and The Deep is black (and can fly!).
I am going to be really annoyed if they kill off The Deep before we get at least one scene of him hanging out underwater talking to fish. I know it will be expensive but for fuck’s sake figure it out.
Eagle the Archer is going to kill the Deep for betraying him.
If you know that for certain then you’re a fucking POS for just spouting it.
Just a shot in the dark, relax.
then sorry, I think it’s more likely Deep has to go kill Eagle the Archer
Just relax. The scientologists aren’t even the comic and eagle is only mentioned in passing by name once. Also the deep barely matters in the comics and A-train has zero likeability. As this show goes on they’re getting farther and farther from the source but it’s still really good
The series now has only the slightest connection to the comics. No comics people are going to spoil you.
While the comics are indeed far different than the show, the racial makeup of the characters is not remotely a significant difference.
You don’t think it would have been different if the show had The Deep as a black man sexually assaulting little white Starlight?
I’m saying that mixing up the races of tertiary characters is not remotely a significant change from the comic. And in the comic, it wasn’t the Deep assaulting starlight, anyway, it was Homelander and most of the men of the 7.
That’s not true. In the comics, the black Deep is the focus and target of everyones racism. Especially Homelander’s who straight up called him the N-word. That’s one thing the show is sadly missing that was a plus of the comic: the casual racism by The Seven/Vought towards The Deep.
The storylines of the comic and TV series are nothing alike at this point and never really were beyond the broadest of strokes and a few elements of the set-up.
Hiring Esposito was a popular audio-book company? That and the more traditional “you can hear it” are the only definitions I know for “audible.”
Audible. American Football. A change of playing tactics called by the quarterback at the line of scrimmage.
Blecch.
Ask stupid questions…
LOL. You acted like such a tool and when your card got pulled, could only vomit from internet embarrassment! LMAO 🤣🤣.
Dissmissed grey: more because football sucks dogshit.
American football term
This. The moment I saw Esposito brought onboard the cast, I knew that was what it was for. The only person that would play comics Stillwell well is Gus Fring. Similar personalities. And while I do agree with you to an extent, I did like the mommy complex they added to it. I just don’t understand why they just didn’t create a whole new character for it instead of using Stillwell only to backtrack out of it.
Literally nothing in the comic is better than the series. I read a lot of the comic and it’s trash.TV stillwell is FAR more interesting than book Stillwell or Gus Fring 2.0.Oedipal emotional manipulation of Homelander as Shue did in season 1 is a far creepier, far more intense and interesting relationship than the straightforward “you don’t scare me” suit type. We’ve seen the “cold, fearless executive” type a million times and, hell, Esposito played virtually the same character on a far better series.Casting him was easy shorthand for the audience, and Giancarlo can play that role in his sleep. But it also invites unflattering comparisons. Not that “The Boys” is bad, but it’s like hiring Ted Danson to play another sitcom bartender in 1995. Why open yourself up to that?
Cindy is the head exploder.
Could be, although I did not see him in attendence. I don’t know if he himself has the power, but the way he was cool as fuck when Homelander came into his office looking to tear him a new one, made me think he has some kind of protection.
It’s spinning its wheels. The boys no longer have clear motivation. Nothing has really happened this season to change things up. Homelander’s son rapidly turning on his mom was a stretch. The Scientology plot is going nowhere.I really haven’t liked this show this season.
We’re getting deeper into the mythos. It’s possible they weren’t thinking this show would be quite so successful so they had a 2 year plan instead of a 5 year plan, now they have set up both Sage Grove and the Scientologists to feed us multiple villains and possible multi-season storylines…or they could be like The Expanse, god bless it, and wrap up two books worth of shit in half an episode.
I thought this was better than season one but to each his own
I have a theory that the head exploder is none other than the head of Vought, Stan Edgar. That would help explain why he calmly told Homelander to f*ck off, knowing full well that a racist Homelander could laser him in half. He might have some level of mind control powers like The Mule from Asimov’s Foundation series and can influence emotions as well. He could kill The Boys at any time, but for now they are proving to be useful idiots.
Ryans turn was fast as fuck then I thought he’s not just a kid but a closeted one with superpowers. I actually thought Becca got through to Homelander in that pretty great genuine scene they had. But I guess not.It’s a stretch but I could see it especially being alone with Stormlander (who make a great team) all day. Imagine going from Dancing with Wolves to watching Avengers that has your actual dad in the lead role and you have powers also.Noir was the Mvp of this episode until he got his ass whupped by an almond joy. The first attack on Starlight was so brutal and quick.. The second after she escaped was even worse and he was laying waste to her and the conference room before MAEVE, did something, repeat, Maeve did something. Using her powers no less. She even threw a table in anger. I couldn’t believe it, she was using her powers. Which haven’t been seen since episode 1 of the first season IIRC.So far she has had the least to work with both in character and plot, like less than the Deep and A train but I still liked the character. Finally have her do something pivotal. But is Noir dead, first I thought no way but then this could be their opportune way of creating a new Noir. At this point in time Vought have Noir and Lamplighters bodies, and the pick of Homelander, Stormfront or even Ryans DNA and plenty of compound V.. Something is getting created.Even though it didn’t last I liked the Boys team up with the congresswoman who finally got some other lines and more Mallory is always welcome. Its easy to speculate the exploding heads culprit as Cindy but I wouldn’t be surprised by another cause. The church had a meeting coming up with Edgar, this could have been their way to clean up some of the messes in an act to gain Edgars allegiance.
Annie’s reaction about being lied to her whole life wasn’t that much different. And she’s was an adult woman. Ryan is just a child. I think it made sense he would be overemotional about it. I mean think how often kids say they hate their parents for much smaller things. If Ryan had time to cool down it’d be fine but there was his dad who used this to show himself as the cool one and take him away to internet and video games. Less violent than what Vogelbaum did to him but a brainwashing nevertheless..
Ryan’s priorities currently are as follows:1. Visit Vought Land (which, lol, imagine a theme park with the name of a pharmaceutical company)2. Ride on roller coaster3. Watch non-sappy movies4. Make stop motion reenactments of non-sappy movies5. Be free to use powers100. Be a respectful kid who always obeys mom
Also Ryan doesnt know why she lied.. and the truth is so fucked up I doubt she would tell him anyways.. so its gonna be much harder for them to reconcile.
I think it also made sense in that as Becca tried to paper over her desperation to keep Ryan this season, try as she might, the kid would pick up on it. “Mom’s getting more and more stressed out. Why is that?” … “Oh, I see why. Our lives are a lie and we live in a prison.” … “and Mom knew. Mom knew I had a super-dad, and Mom knew about this prison.”The kid’s logic checks out. The abruptness comes from his realization happening off screen. But the show’s pov is with Becca at this point – in these “home” sequences – more than Ryan, so I was good with it.
SPOILER:
if Noir isn’t Homelanders clone, that sucksit was an important twist in the comic that i did not see coming at the time
Re:Ryan. He is raised a very specific way from his mom and sorta closed off fro the world. He doesnt know why at all. His whole issue with homelander was basically built off his moms vibes (and him pushing him off the roof). You also have to realize he has no knowledge that Homelander raped his mom and then she was kidnapped. So at that point it makes sense that once he finds out that his mom is lying to him and his whole life is fake he would flip out at her and turn to the guy who has been visiting him and told him the truth.
Ryan’s turn was too sudden. Vogelbaum said that when Homelander was five or six he was still very sweet. Has there been any suggestion that exposure to Compound V contributes to psychopathy? Annie is compassionate but the rest of them are off the rails psychologically.
Maeve did something! lol. Yea, it’s a bit ironic the show is trying to make a commentary that she’s taking issue of being defined by her sexual orientation, when as of now, that’s exactly what the show itself has done. (We literally know nothing else about her!) But I’m still a fan, too. She’s the member of the Seven that is so apathetic she doesn’t care about anything, and it weirdly gives her an aura of swagger.
You make a good point. I think her apathetic character is why she is underused. She just does not elicit interesting responses to situations. Even the scene where she basically killed Noir and rescued the traitor Starlight, we are expecting a big moment of momentum for her character but when Starlight asks her too come with her Maeve is just like Meh, whateves and peaces out. I personally find that funny but within this show of extreme personalities it could come across as bland or boring to other viewers. Infact her apathy is her main character trait and extends to her refusal to use her powers. The actress makes it all work.
I hope Annie gets to finally kick some ass, I feel her fight at the end of last season was weak, and she keeps getting kicked around easy. I hope she takes down Stormfront with her ability to absorb electricity, although I’ll miss how truly terrifying Aya Cash is.That would be my only complaint, is not seeing the supes do enough supe things as last season. Otherwise been thoroughly enjoying!
Annies powers aren’t that great in comparison to the other heavy hitters and she still holds her own. Maeve is still an unknown entity this far into the series. This episode was the first time she used her powers since the premiere last season.
The show brings up Starlight’s ‘limitation’ too much for it to be anything but foreshadowing. It’s like a puzzle – on the one hand you have the TWO most powerful super-people in the world who have no clear weaknesses, plus a super-kid who might be a heavy hitter himself. In the other corner you have a mid-tier super with asterisks (she needs an electricity source!), a D-grade semi-super and some clever people with no powers themselves. The Boys’ connection with the super-kid is fraught because the leader has two redundant reasons to reject him (product of wife’s rape and he hates supes).
The above suggests an annoyingly convenient resolution where the pieces all fit together. Butcher gets over his hang-ups and convinces his step-kid to rally for the good guys, Starlight drains all the juice from Stormfront until Kimiko can punch her face through the back of her head, and then Starlight uses all that power to beat Homelander into a coma.
The loose ends that don’t fit there mostly have to do with the Scientology church. The nature of their threat isn’t clear yet, which suggests that they’ll step as the biggest ongoing problem once Stormfront is off the board.
Grading myself here: Butcher gets over his supes issues and brings the kid back over to the good team in a clutch play: check and check. Kiddo’s Butcher-powered rebound ended up being even more decisive than I expected. Starlight powers up from Stormfront: not clear. How did Starlight get powered up? She got hit with force lightning a couple times, so it must have been that. She clearly didn’t drain anything from Stormfront though. Kimiko punches Stormfront’s face in: check, although it’s mostly a catharsis for Kimiko since it largely just annoys Stormfront. Homelander gets beat into a coma: bzzzt! He’s still (apparently) an indestructible force with no (physical) weaknesses. Maeve manipulates his ego and his desperate need for affection to get him back under control. Ten points from Gryffindor for missing that heavily foreshadowed plot thread. Grade: B- or C+. I passed!
Becca was totally backed into a corner in that situation, she could see it all slipping away but couldn’t play the only card she had. Because not only would it traumatize Ryan to be told the circumstances of his conception, he almost certainly would refuse to believe it right away.
I legit whispered “what a nightmare” as Stormfront got more and more passive aggressive
I almost teared up when Kimiko started teaching Serge her sign language. I am Friendshipping them so hard.
Yeah, the bait and switch from Frenchie thinking she meant “keep your mind on the job” to realising she was actually letting him further into her world was well done.
Also I think that Annie is going to murk Stormfront when SF tries to zap her. Supe who gets power from electricity gets hit by lighting bolts? I don’t think that will go well for Lady Palpatine.
Well, the kid did find out he was living in a compound, with everything in his neighborhood being fake and his mom has been lying to him.
Not sure how he had never realized that from ground level, though. 🙂
It’s not like the kid ever seemed to go anywhere or interact with anyone at all, so yeah.
He’s only ever known the fake neighborhood. He hasn’t really been able to compare it to anything else.
Yeah, Homelander kind of had a point there. I mean, being raised as he was is bad, but keeping a kid completely isolated from the world with only his mother as a companion is not the best recipe for a childhood either.
It seems that the leader of the Church has the power to pop heads. He didn’t care about the Stormfront/Liberty thing, but the power struggle at Vaught…. Notice the only super at the hearing that had his head popped was the speedster replacing A-Train. Thus, opening up the spot on the 7 to fulfill his promise. Also, the head popping stopped after the TV feed was cut… Not sure what is going on, but there is something going on between Edgar and the leader. Maybe the cola wars have gotten ironically darker as the subjects, Fresca and Le Croix have gotten lighter.
“before setting himself alight in a moment reminiscent of Thích Quảng Đức’s famous death”That’s a bit of a reach. He self immolated, not for any cause other than his own melodrama. Still, really good episode overall. Butcher’s parents were really tacked on and John Noble was wasted, which is a crime I guess. Even his accent was kinda crap. Id have thought he wandered into the set one afternoon if it wasn’t for that glorious dye job.
He self immolated, not for any cause other than his own melodrama.I had the same impression in the moment, but now I wonder if he knew that the fire would set Annie free. That in fact it was the only way to set Annie free, since maybe he knew they couldn’t open the super-cell from the outside. His last chance to be a hero. “I just wanted to make my dad proud” are his last words.
Hughie lets Starlight’s mother out from her cell with Lamplighter’s hand later.
But that was just a locked room for a civilian prisoner, not the super high-tech anti-supe holding cube. It stands to reason they don’t share the same level of security.
Perhaps the cells for humans and the one for Supes have different security protocols?
Yeah, Annie’s mom was held behind a simple door. It could have been just a repurposed store room for all we know (the facility is not meant to hold humans, after all). That door looked like it could have been easily broken through by Butcher or MM. Annie’s detention cube, not so much.
My impression of that act was mixed, too. Some of the facial expressions suggested he knew that he was going to help the other characters, but then again all of his characterization up to that point in the episode (though not in the previous one) made him seem completely self-involved.I kind of wish they’d used that character the way the comics did; in a show intentionally full of horrible things, I think they left out of the most horrible aspect of the comics in Lamplighter’s arc (such as it is).Plus seeing a TV version of Herogasm would’ve been something to behold.
But Hughie opened Annie’s mom’s cell from the outside?
But Annie’s mom’s cell wasn’t designed to contain a supe.
I had the same impression in the moment, but now I wonder if he knew that the fire would set Annie free. That in fact it was the only way to set Annie free, since maybe he knew they couldn’t open the super-cell from the outside.
It doesn’t follow that there would be a smoke detector calibrated to self-immolation only, or that there would be literally nothing else Lamplighter could burn other than his entire self.
But as someone else pointed out, he knew he was already a dead man walking by then. He said as much a couple scenes earlier.
That doesn’t make his suicide strategically necessary, just convenient. The heroic act was getting Hughie into Vought Tower in the first place.
So, he had to set something in there on fire, but it didn’t have to be himself so he could still testify at the hearing before Congress.
He explicitly said they wouldn’t let him get to the hearing alive. At least that’s what he believed. He planned to watch porn until Black Noir or someone else found him and tortured him to death, but then Hughie managed to reignite something in him (pun not intended),and he decided to go out in a literal blaze of glory, thus solving Hughie’s problem (save Annie) and his own problem (avoid capture by Vought) in one fiery swoop, while also pissing Vought off as a bonus.
This was my take as well. Setting off the fire alarm got the guards to vacate their posts, the light gave Annie a source of power. Even Hughie seemed to have a slight tell in his expression, but I may be reading too much into that.Lamplighter knew he wouldn’t live long enough to testify. Hughie gave him an out. Plus he had executed so many people by the very power he had once thought would make him a hero. Executing himself in the same manner seems fitting.
That’s a good point.
Not much of a reach. It was a protest against the corrupt and evil Vought regime just as in the earlier instance it was a protest against the corrupt and evil South Viet Namese regime
Lots of good drama through the episode, a great Starlight-gets-her-badass-on cell escape, an utterly adorable Hughie/Annie reunion, the beginning of the Frenchie/Kumiko reconciliation that my heart needs, and a truly WTF!? ending make this a strong contender for series-best episode. The show is deviating from the comic in all the right ways.
I’m happy Annie is now officially done with the Seven, so she can interact with other characters without her scenes feeling like a depressing pile of misery. Even her exchanges with Butcher have been more fun than with any of the Seven, where she’s either bullied or confronted with the prospect of irrelevance at best, inescapable doom at worst.
I was very worried Ashley’s head was going to explode. She’s been great. Tiny moment when she bursts in on Maeve, and she does so much with so little. I actually loved this episode (yay!) The beginning gave me chills. And the parallels bewteen Butcher and Homelander continue, as we learned being soft was something neither of their father figures wanted from them. I think Lamplighter should have gone looking for his damn statue, if it would mean keeping him around a little longer! And I love that Homelander made a bunch of movies that are basically Green Lantern quotes.
Ashley has been underated since last since, her unlikableness was hiding her brilliance lol.
She’s a really great actress. Glad she gets to keep playing the role!
Kang despised her SO MUCH on ‘Daredevil’, but in hindsight it was a tough part… she was written to be annoyingly terrible and was also… terribly written! But Kang is warming to her as Ashley.
Is Kang sure Kang doesn’t mean Jessica Jones, not Daredevil? Because that’s the show Colby Minifie was on previously.I hated Robyn but love seeing Ashley squirm.
Wasn’t it Jessica Jones she was on?
Whoops! Kang is corrected. It was JJ.
Why would anyone care about a Superman-like hero movie where the bad guys are just normal, non-superpowered criminals?
Doesn’t Superman fight Lex Luthor a lot? He has no powers. The Boys is similar because it showcases human ingenuity against an implacable foe. Apologies if I’m missing something.
The cold open was chilling. The way they build up to the shooting was perfect. The whole thing with he was quiet and kind to his mother. The same mother who watched the same skewed media he did. The idolisation of Stormfront leading him exactly where she wanted him to be. And then denouncing his act while seamlessly repeating the same message that radicalised him in the same breathe. The thoughts and prayers.
I liked how the episode showed the family impacts on who all these people are. From how both Butcher and Homelander where shaped by their father’s needing to make a strong one and doing it through abuse. How Homelander used this to turn Ryan against Becca. At the same time as Annie forgives her mom for her lies.
We can assume Ryan would forgive his mother too if he had time to cool down but Homelander swoops in to take him for himself. Now he can give Stormfron her perfect superhuman family. It’s all she dreamed of – you can see the hunger in her eyes at the thought of the first natural-born sup. I wonder if she’ll try to take Ryan for her experiments to figure out how to make more and that’s what puts a wedge between her and Homelander.I never though Cindy was behind exploding heads – she was too unstable and her power doesn’t seem to be good at doing heads only. But it’s clear it’s someone working for Vought since they are cleaning up people who are inconvenient to the company. I think the hearing massacre was so big to work as a further argument into why they need sup protection. I bet they are going to call this super-terrorist attack and use it to turn public against the hearings. “They want to leave us unprotected. Vought and it’s superheroes are the only thing that can save us now.”
Now we know for sure Black Noir origins on the show are different than in the comic. I think it’s OK since the whole Becca and Ryan thing is different too.
Lamplighter affirmed my deeply held belief that anyone who uses word “cuck” is waste of time. Testifying for Congress would’ve been a better use of his suicide than burning himself.
The fact that he died in his own fire while Annie was fine even after Black Noir destroyed the room with her shows she was an upgrade for The Seven.I liked that Annie was saved by herself and Maeve not Hughie. I also liked that Hughie saved her mom. And the moment Annnie realised he came to save her. She though it was cute too.Maeve was so heartbroken by Elena leaving her it brought human out of Ashley. I didn’t think that was possible.
She also tries to be more of who Elena would like her to be. From fucking with Vought PR storyline (their new “lesbian” in threesome with two guys) to saving Annie from Black Noir.It sad how hard even the superheroes believe in superhero myth. It’s all about good guys saving the day at first and making parents proud. It ends with doing anything to keep the money, fame and the unlimited groupies. From selling yourself to a cult to murdering strangers.
Out there Homelander is just saying “I told you so” to Stormfront. He knew Starlight would escape. I wonder if Stormfront is going to try to pin the massacre on Starlight.Vought’s scientists working on supes all have very German names (Vogelbaum, Sonnenshine). They are too young to have come with Vought from Third Reich but I suppose he had his preferences.
John Noble cameo with a LotR reference was awesome. Not as awesome as on Legends of Tomorrow but then nothing is. But it was close.
Kimiko teaching Frenchie word for “gun” first was so pure.
You do realize the only reason Annie got out of the room is because Lamplighters fire activated the emergency light and let her charge her powers.
Interestingly, “Vogelbaum” and “Sonnenschein” are typically German Jewish surnames.
I considered both them being Jewish and correcting Sonnenschein’s name spelling from the subtitles. It’s sometimes hard to tell how much of that is intentional but a lot of time was pent on wondering why a black man is working with Stormfront so this choice is suspect too. Are they all really continuing Frederick Vought’s ideas? The same ones Stormfront believes in?
Vought’s scientists working on supes all have very German names (Vogelbaum, Sonnenshine). They are too young to have come with Vought from Third Reich but I suppose he had his preferences.To me, Vogelbaum reads as very Jewish, especially combined with the first name Jonah. Because lots of Central European Jews were basically told out of the blue that they had to have a fixed family name instead of using patronymics (X ben/bat Y), lots of those families drew from nature to make up names. That’s how we end up with lots of names like Goldstein (“gold stone”), Silber (“silver”), etc.. I can’t remember who “Sonnenshine” was in the show, but that assumption would also extend to them.
I loved that they changed his origins, it felt so awkward in the comic, even a Deus Ex machina has the comfort of kindergarten level problem solving. All that did was just make larger plot holes (You weren’t activated to kill homelander even as he explained his entire plan of mass murder to all the supes?).
Plus, the tension of the series comes from The Boyz being vulnerable at any given moment, it makes even the simplest of episodes feel as if danger is around every corner.
I like the power imbalance because it forces the Boys to be clever where Seven relay on pure force. This makes the supes complacent – they can brute force almost anything and the rest Vought will clean up. They have all the money and power in the world. The Boys only have conviction and smarts and they have to find clever ways around both immovable objects (like whales) and unstoppable force (like Black Noir). With just occasional help of some powers.
Vehemently agree, in fact, when i read the whole series a few months ago (since I knew of the books but couldn’t get ahold of the whole series) and saw them shooting up, I was like: “Um….doesn’t this kill the whole tension of the series? So it’s just a shlock revenge story instead of a well thought out and high paced action thriller?”
Show over comics, any day of the week.
Well, they change what Compound V does in the comics – it basically gives them all Captain America level strength/speed/durability, so they’re still firmly outclassed by the heavy hitting supes….but yeah, it’s a love story/scathing indictment of the military-industrial complex, CIA, and how the abyss gazes also wrapped up in a schlocky revenge thriller, rather than the same thing wrapped in a tense spy show.
That’s what made me lose less interest in the comics, i still read it all, but now Hugie is stronger than most supes?
And the women are written horribly in the comics, more attention was put in demeaning Anni than actually giving her a spine (one of the newest and strongest supes around but can’t defend herself or step up for herself…ok)
One thing both the show does really well is argue that just getting superpowers makes you more unpredictably dangerous and less an evil mastermind. You’re not granted intelligence or a sudden grasp of physics and psychology. A Green Beret and a baby are both dangerous with a gun, but not really for the same reason. The Boys biggest edge over the Seven is basic competence.
Yeah that’s one of the main things I like about the show is that the Boys are so wildly overmatched and the villains are all so powerful and scary. It’s one of the best explorations I’ve seen of how truly frightening and dangerous it would be to live in a world with supes
“You weren’t activated to kill homelander even as he explained his entire plan of mass murder to all the supes?”Black Noir’s already gone fully insane by this point, so good luck trying to pin down his motivations and his methods.
But he was always fully insane, that mass murder that Butcher had pictures about? That was even before the series started.
But my biggest gripe is that the writing was so pretentious that it basically solved it’s own problems: if the Boys had never been involved in any capacity, everything would still turn out the same because it was ultimately Vought themselves who had to put an end to the uprising.
“my biggest gripe is that the writing was so pretentious that it basically solved it’s own problems”Sure, but the book really wasn’t about that, was it? They still had the Big Bad to defeat after that.
It wasn’t about a lot of things with pages of monologue that lead to nothing.
Some of those pages had more lines than Anni had during the whole book.
When Stormfront is talking to the director on the show about his outdated ways of writing about women, you do know she was talking about the comic book, right?
What a wonderful non-sequitur.
Exactly.A bunch of unaccountable, super-powered spies are never going to be the GOOD GUYS, in a Garth Ennis book.Love is the only good guy, generally.
Vought didn’t defeat the uprising. Butcher did by giving the military the special supe killing weapons he and Volgelbaum invented. Vought didn’t do a damn thing other than scapegoat their own employee and claim plausible deniability.
Who activated Black Noir? That wasn’t butcher, that wasn’t Homelander. Vought clearly caused all the misery, and it still continued after the death of Butcher.
Again, an ending that never ended anything.
Black Noir only killed Homelander. Not the other supers who rebelled with him. It was Butcher telling Rayner and the US Military about his supe killing explosives which they used to kill the rest of them that did it.And what do you mean misery continuned after the death of Butcher? Not else happened after he died other than Hughie and Starlight lived happily ever after.
Yup – maybe people are too identified with their expectations from the show to realize that Butcher is, by the end of the comics, SPOILERSan insane, murderous thug?
Wait… Butcher dies? Where was that episode??!
In the comic, last arc. It gets a little rough getting there though.
I think it’s interesting that Homelander and Stormfront seemed to genuinely not know what was going on with the exploding heads. So the massacre plan came from above them, or from someone else’s personal initiative.
Yes, they were both WTF? I still think it’s part of Edgar clean-up plan since whoever this is got rid of Raynor.
Edgar seems the obvious culprit, so maybe it won’t be? Plus, isn’t Edgar the one who reins the supes in to avoid this kind of mess? Then again, this might just align with the idea that the super-terrorists are getting out of control, but it’s kind of suspicious for super-terrorists to strike at the hearing against Vought rather than, say, a mall.
So Edgar said he is cleaning up the mess Homelander made with superterrorists. He also has the reveal of Compound V on his hand. For now they deferring the blowback by diverting public opinion to fear the terrorist more than be angry for the overreaches. But I’m sure The Boys aren’t the only ones who made connection that means Vought is responsible for supperterrorist too and it eventually is going to hit too. He decided to go with the risky – this was a rogue group in the company. He put blame on the dead scapegoat but Stillwell wasn’t old enough to really blame for all of it. I think the ultimate goal is to put the blame Stormfront.She’s perfect for this because of her age, her beliefs and because she’s already been supervising experiments on humans. Selling it to the public would be easy.
This would also explain why let The Boys, Mallory and Neuman survive. He needs someone from outside the company to help sell this.This is just my guesswork. I don’t know any spoilers.
Using Stormfront as a scapegoat involves revealing she was Liberty, though, and a century-old former Nazi, which doesn’t bode too well for Vought. At the very least for Vought’s ability to vet their people.
“She fooled you – the public -and she fooled us too. “
“She was her before current board. We are cleaning up the house.”Etc. etc.
Homelander and Stormfront’s physical responses to the heads exploding was maybe my favorite part of the scene. Their expressions of almost amused confusion was priceless.
They were like, “Wait, is this a good thing or a bad thing that is happening? Looks great to me, but maybe not?”
I still think the reveal might work, just a little different.I feel meave is really going to have a headache figuring this all out
I see what you did there…
I’m not as smart as I think
UNLESS they added that weird weakness to be able to bring him down if needed. He might not even know he had it. It might be that everybody else knows but him. I bet Homelander has a different one.
I think Ryan maybe replacement there. Not now but in like season 5 or 7 when he’s older.
For Black Noir I know a lot of people love the character origin in the comics, but honestly it just breaks suspension of disbelief for me. You make a weapon that you are afraid you might lose control of, so you make a stronger weapon as a back up plan? A stronger weapon who your traditional military can fight effectively? I mean its a cool reveal and stuff its just when I turned my brain back on and actually thought about it that twist made no sense to me.In this case, change is good and has more story telling options.
It actually does make sense. Especially since it was how he actually died. Think about it: how else do you kill Homelander other than nukes, which btw, they thought of that when they attached a nuke to him for most of his life but stopped that when they realized that wouldn’t be practical?
Sir, we have a Supe we are worried is SO powerful we cannot control it. What could we possibly do?
Make a stronger Supe to take him out if he ever gets out of control!Uh…sir, what happens if the new even stronger Supe gets out of control? Like if we drive him insane by making his whole life about taking out the other Supe?We can use the military to take him out!But sir, if the military can take out the stronger Supe, why wouldn’t they be effective on taking out the first one? And if the military is not powerful enough, doesn’t have an even stronger Supe make the situation even harder to control?
So what do we got? Nukes? Already tried that remember? What if he happens to be in Vought Tower or Downtown Honolulu when we have to detonate it to take him out?Yeah, you’re right. Scratch that.You know, Dr Vogelbaum before he disappeared was working on a special weapon that homes in on the Compound V in supes……Eh, lets just stick to cloning him with a stronger one. That way the stronger clone will take the place of the dead supe and we won’t lose any revenue and have to explain to the rubes and investors/shareholders what happened. We can even market the clone as a whole new character, add him to The Seven, and keep him dark and mysterious which will add to his appeal to the crucial teenage boy demo. A new character will definately drive up our share price and make our Q4 push into China more lucrative. And if this clone works out, we can clone even more of him to use for our push into super soldiers to the military or enforcer for foreign strongmen. The revenue generating opportunities are endless!But what about the issues about controling him?Eh, let the psychs deal with it. We don’t pay em for nothing. I’m really jazzed over a new character for the seven we can make money off of, Great! Let’s do it!
If the purpose of cloning was all the things you said, sure. If the purpose was: we need a failsafe to deal with an unstoppable supe, then it makes no sense.
Is it really that hard for you to get that the greedy, corrupt, evil, incompetent corporation cloned a copy of their most powerful hero as a failsafe to stop Homelander because its easier, more profitable/marketable for them, and because they didn’t want to get the military involved, especially since they plan on selling these same supes to them? And because they’re a greedy, corrupt, evil, incompetent corporation they didn’t plan on or care if he went insane or not as long as he served his purpose: stop Homelander when he needed to and to make lots of money for the corp?
Yes, the whole point of my post is how it violated my suspension of disbelief.If I am afraid of something that is around, getting a stronger version of the thing I am afraid of around is just something that does not jive with me. If it jives with you, that is cool, but it does not and will not for me.To clarify: the expressly stated purpose for the clone in the comics is what I have a problem with.
You’re complaining about suspension of belief on a fictional TV show based off of a comic book where superheroes are created in a lab by a shady corporation? Are you serious?If it jives with you, that is cool, but it does not and will not for me.I’m not sure what the hell this means but if this show bothers you, you’re welcome to stop watching it and spare us. Its really that simple. As simple as the simple explanation that I gave you.
I never expressed any issue with the show, at all. I was happy with the change to the character, and specifically praised the decision to change from the comic book origin of the character.I mean, more spoilers for the comic for those reading this thread.
Suspension of disbelief is a personal thing that pops for people when it pops. Generally internal consistency in a fictional world is important for such a thing, and when something pops it, it just pops it.In the comic, not the show, Black Noir is strong enough to and does kill Homelander, and legit has holes shot through his body with military hardware leading to his death.
This means: A) Homelander could be taken down more conventionally. B) Let’s say that was not the case, and Homelander was killed by Noir. Then you have the problem you originally created Black Noir to deal with, an unstoppable superhero with no counter, except he is stronger than before.If that is the sole reason he was created, and that is how it is presented in the comic, and it makes no sense to me.The show, wisely, did not keep that element. The show makes a lot of changes I like, such as having the boys be normal humans, and having Stormfront be a female; it leaves a lot of space for unpredictablity about where the story is going.
This means: A) Homelander could be taken down more conventionally. B) Let’s say that was not the case, and Homelander was killed by Noir. Then you have the problem you originally created Black Noir to deal with, an unstoppable superhero with no counter, except he is stronger than before.I literally explained this to you in your lame analogy to you used the reasoning Ennis uses behind this. You just chose not to agree because you don’t want to because you’re just some disagreeable weirdo that doesn’t “jive” or whatever, that I should really stop talking to about this. Starting now.
If that was the reasoning used in the comics, then sure. Ennis never said that. I said your reasoning was fine, but that was not the reasoning presented in the comics, at all.In the comics it was “he is a failsafe to stop Homelander if he goes nuts”. That is the entire reasoning.
The reasoning was made pretty dang clear in the comics when Stillwell literally explained it to the reader. Jeez dude.
Fair enough, if that reasoning is in the comic itself just point me to the issue it appears in. I do not recall such a thing. I only remember the whole exchange between MM and Hughie where MM is explaining that Noir was created as a “way to put Homelander down if it ever comes to that, not a bomb, shit like that ain’t practical, Somethin’ they can use on him no matter where he is, somethin’ they can send—-” from #65.
Jesus Christ dude there is no thread where you don’t enter crushing the mood and insulting randomly. Chill, please. I considered this comment section a safer space.
Where was that in the show? Strapping nukes on Homelander?
Can’t be Cindy. The first exploding head was Susan Raynor (Jennifer Espisito) back in episode 1. Cindy would most likely been. locked up in Sage Grove. My guess its probably going to a big reveal of someone we have seen but didn’t know had powers.
I think the idea was that Stormfront took Cindy to the field to act as her soldier but why send her if she could’ve killed Raynor herself. Or why not kill The Boys too? I still think it’s all Edgar’s plan of cleaning up the shop. He lets The Boys and senator Neumann live because he needs someone outside Vought to implicate Stormfront for all this.
i don’t know anything about the original story, but my guess is Edgar (Giancarlo Esposito) has supe power too. Why wouldn’t the guy in charge be able to protect himself? He’s got such a coolness when dealing w/ Homelander, etc., that doesn’t seem sensible when you consider power imbalances…so yeah, thats my thought.
But why would a super terrorist want to encourage more super heroes? Usually you want less people that can stop you.
So the Church of the Collective has Cindy, right?
I hate to go all both-siderism here but it turns out both Annie’s & Hughie’s radically different opinions of Almond Joys were valid.
Annie must feel so vindicated, being saved by an Almond Joy. The Almond Joys are clearly siding with the good guys here.
A bar loved by murders, saves her from being murdered by nearly murdering someone. Alot to take in
But how do they feel about Mounds? Almond Joy’s got nut, Mounds don’t!
That makes mounds useless for defeating rampaging supes.
But useful for satisfying your chocolate and coconut cravings.
Unless they have a coconut allergy!
Unless they have a coconut allergy.
It’s fine either way.Sometimes you feel like a nut. Sometimes you don’t.
I prefer Mounds. It has dark chocolate.
There’s no way that the Church of the Collective isn’t behind the head-exploding at the hearing, right (I’m assuming Alistair is a Supe)? I’m guessing that Stan Edgar’s meeting with them already happened and that he would give them 2 spots in the 7 in exchange for cleaning up Vought’s mess hence the reason why Shockwave got killed but Stormfront and Homelander were never targeted. I know Edgar is a popular choice for that too, but I don’t know why he’d kill Shockwave unless the Church of the Collective is involved.Also, I find it hilarious that Amazon shot porn parody clips to use for this episode. The moment where the deep immediately disavows Eagle the Archer after being told he’s a toxic personality despite being friendly before was funny too.
A+
I’m leaning towards Edgar and The Church working together as well. I also think they are going to use Cindy (the woman with similar powers that was locked up by Vought) as a scapegoat. They have security video of her using a similar looking power and she’s on the run now.
The ‘previously on…’ clips before the episode showed Cindy, but she never appeared in the episode. I immediately thought it was her when the first head popped, but this would make sense too – scapegoating her.
Black Noir probably isn’t going to be that guy from the comics but the door isn’t completely closed on that yet. After all, what we did see of his face looked horribly burned, not unlike someone who gets blown up a lot and could still be in theory be healing from that as that’s the last thing to fully fix itself.
Or he could be a flawed, disfigured version of what he was in the comics. After all, he doesn’t need to have the same look because he doesn’t need to have done all the things he did in the comics, due to the different backgrounds/fates/whatever of several other characters. Of course, for the same reasons, it doesn’t much matter one way or another. That is, the reveal in the comics is only meaningful if he did things another character was thought to have done, and those things didn’t happen in the show.
Well, we got a deformed mouh in the same episode in which we heard about Butcher’s brother having died from a shot in the mouth, so that’s my guess.
I thought Cindy was implied to be the head popper, but it wouldn’t make sense now that she is out of corporate control. Maybe they have a backup Cindy.
Gotta be Cindy; she somehow got wind of the hearings, or otherwise tracked Vogelbaum
And she’s doing it from outside – Congressional hearings don’t usually have windows
Doesn’t Cindy implode things? The head popping seems to be something else. I also got the impression everyone at the hospital were basically uncontrollable rejects.
Yeah but Cindy hates Stormfront, doesn’t she? Maybe I misunderstood all the inmates’ feelings towards Stormfront/Vought. Granted, she may not be able to pop Stormfront’s head because she’s super-tough I guess, but it seems like she should’ve at least gotten a headache. The head-popper has to be working for Vought.
yah I don’t think it’s cindy, gotta be a twist next week. maybe the church.
The fact that Shockwave’s head was popped – thus opening the door for A-Train back into the 7 – also makes me think the Church was behind the head-popping. Otherwise why kill him, and more importantly, why show us?
yes, maybe the church will be the resistance to Homelander, even if they have their own terrible agenda.
We did see A-Train’s replacement get popped…
If I were to guess, I’d say Stan Edger is a secret supe.Edit: Although that wouldn’t make sense for him to kill Shockwave…
My thought is that Cindy is a genetic relative of the head popper. If the head popper was a compound V baby, it would make sense to try and inject somebody with a similar genetic makeup as an adult to try and replicate the powers, just like Ryan shows some of Homelanders powers. Besides Cindy was still locked up when whats her face had her head popped in the parking garage.
The moment Shockwave’s head went everywhere: it’s the church!
Why else would they single out the one superhero speedster that was getting in the way of the church but not Vought’s?
And I’m surprised at what they did with Black Noir and happy they decided to do so. One of the faults of the comic is that it gave way too much, all at once, and with almost no emotional attachment to the fans.
Black Noir turning out to be *spoiler* would have felt like if Cap had lifted thor’s hammer in the first Avengers.
a superpower-diffusing cell reminiscent of the plastic one Magneto was in during X2I think this was more strongly reminiscent of the cell Vanya is kept in at the Hargreeves mansion in S1 of The Umbrella Academy. Both Starlight and Vanya’s eyes even glow.Also, the whole time Frenchie and Kimiko were having a beautiful moment I couldn’t enjoy it because I was so anxious that the congresswoman was going to get killed.
Lmao I was thinking the same. And when Annie and Hughey were smiling warmly at each other in the hallway for what felt like a full minute I kept thinking one of them was about to get skewered
Exactly! I was yelling at them “come on guys get a move on no time for this!!!”
– I believe part of Ryan’s reaction is that when he was showed his fake neighborhood from the sky, Homelander and Stormfront were really laying it thick with how he’d been lied to.And he’s also just a kid. Just as quickly he can yell he hates his mom, in a day, he can want her back.- Most commentators will recognize John Noble, but Butcher’s mom was played by Lesley Nicol, Mrs Patmore on Downton Abbey.
That line about dying twice is a different version of something else. I believe I saw it first in a Clive Barker book but I don’t think it was his.
In the Amazon “Scene X-ray”, they attribute the quote to a Stanford psychologist named Irvin D. Yalom. I think (not sure) the true originator of the quote was Jean-Paul Sartre. I think it’s a line from “No Exit”.
Same with the line about “take a shot at the king and you best not miss” – that’s a slightly altered line right from The Wire.
Yes, and, it’s also a paraphrase of the original quote by Ralph Waldo Emerson, responding to Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr.’s criticism of Plato: “When you strike at a king, you must kill him.”
First off, that first quarter of the episode was way too real. A horror movie, almost. Made me feel uncomfortable given the state of the world.I dont see how Maeve can possibly survive her helping Annie with Black Noir (who I doubt is dead) without joining The Boys, especially with Homelander already having homicidal feelings towards her. Once she refused Annie’s hand, though, that felt like her defining moment – she seems to have a bit of a death wish now, anyways, since her partner left her.It’s pretty obvious that Cindy is being set up as the next ‘supervillain’ to legitimize the 7 given her powers – but it most definitely wasn’t her doing the courtroom stuff. Wouldn’t make sense. They clearly showed that other speedsters head being blown up, which makes me think the head guy of the Collective made a deal with Edgar, which is how he was so sure he could get both A-Train and The Deep back in. Although, who actually has the power to do that is scary to think about, and if it’s (Goran V. – can’t think of his show name) then he’s going to be one scary MF moving forward. Let’s also not forget that Stormfront said she used to be a member – and I don’t remember her exact words – but something about a falling out? I also hope the arrow guy sticks around. I liked his character, especially now that he’s free of the Collective.That said, something still doesn’t sit right with me about the head explosions, because if it is someone with a power why were the boys spared when meeting with the FBI lady earlier this season? Seems prudent to get rid of them too. Must it be something that is pre-planted?
Ryan saw his whole life was fake and a lie. Why wouldn’t h get ma that quick?
First off, that first quarter of the episode was way too real. A horror movie, almost. Made me feel uncomfortable given the state of the world.I dont see how Maeve can possibly survive her helping Annie with Black Noir (who I doubt is dead) without joining The Boys, especially with Homelander already having homicidal feelings towards her. Once she refused Annie’s hand, though, that felt like her defining moment – she seems to have a bit of a death wish now, anyways, since her partner left her.It’s pretty obvious that Cindy is being set up as the next ‘supervillain’ to legitimize the 7 given her powers – but it most definitely wasn’t her doing the courtroom stuff. Wouldn’t make sense. They clearly showed that other speedsters head being blown up, which makes me think the head guy of the Collective made a deal with Edgar, which is how he was so sure he could get both A-Train and The Deep back in. Although, who actually has the power to do that is scary to think about, and if it’s (Goran V. – can’t think of his show name) then he’s going to be one scary MF moving forward. Let’s also not forget that Stormfront said she used to be a member – and I don’t remember her exact words – but something about a falling out? I also hope the arrow guy sticks around. I liked his character, especially now that he’s free of the Collective.That said, something still doesn’t sit right with me about the head explosions, because if it is someone with a power why were the boys spared when meeting with the FBI lady earlier this season? Seems prudent to get rid of them too. Must it be something that is pre-planted?
Personally I think the head-popper has to be Stormfront herself. I mean, we’ve already seen that she’s wildly powerful between her flight, electricity, strength and immortality, what’s one more power? I mean, psychic power strong enough to pop heads like grapes seems like something you’d keep under wraps anyway.
She seemed genuinely surprised by the head popping.
I’m a little confused about Becca and Ryan’s home setup. Clearly they’re isolated, but Ryan seems to be amazed just by seeing houses around when Homelander and Stormfront take him? and see that as Becca’s lie? Did he think that he was living in some post-apocalypse and their little simulated mini-neighborhood was all that was left of humanity? Some sort of bizarre flat earth-esque scenario where there was no world beyond his neighborhood?Also I don’t get why Becca hasn’t/hadn’t come clean with Ryan by this point. Seems like it’d be very easy to explain how they’re safe as long as they’re there, and that his dad is a psychopath who should never be trusted. I mean, don’t tell him he’s the product of rape or anything, that’s a little too heavy for his age (or hell, probably any age) but still, make sure he isn’t so easily manipulated by Homelander.Also also, I don’t know why Butcher hasn’t gone back for Becca by this point now that he seems to have overcome his “only good supe is a dead supe” mentality with Starlight. He can tell Becca that he won’t just try to leave Ryan behind and mean it!
It is really critical with this show to not pick at threads. It is just not that intricately plotted out.
I didn’t think he was amazed at seeing houses, I got the impression that he was upset that the houses were empty. He’s homeschooled so that takes care of the need to go to school, and maybe they told him there’s no other kids in the neighborhood or something. Also maybe Vought told Becca not to tell him anything about Homelander? There’s cameras everywhere so she’s probably limited in what she can tell him.
Oh I’m sure she was told not to talk about Homelander before he popped up but after he himself let that cat out of the bag I feel like she should’ve been able to tell him all about the real Homelander.
“Ryan seems to be amazed just by seeing houses around when Homelander and Stormfront take him”I thought he was shocked because there were no houses around, just a security compound or something.
Well there’s at least a few around in their little fake neighborhood for when Ryan goes to… lessons (I can’t remember what for in particular) with that old lady in the episode where Becca goes to the edge of the compound to try and get Vought to do something about Homelander.
That’s true, I forgot about that
This, he saw that he lives in a fake neighbourhood made to trick him into believing he lived in a real neighbourhood. Not that other houses exist beyond his own.
My take was once he got high enough he could see that it wasn’t a normal town or suburb but just some little neighborhood where he lived surrounded by an army base or something similar
Yeah, on rewatch (or at least watching the “previously on…” segment of the final episode) he says “this whole neighborhood is fake!” So presumably Homelander took him around to maybe some empty houses around or something to that extent or showed him the neighborhood is walled in or something. Whatever the case, you’re dead on.
I’m a little confused about Becca and Ryan’s home setup. Clearly they’re isolated, but Ryan seems to be amazed just by seeing houses around when Homelander and Stormfront take him? and see that as Becca’s lie? Did he think that he was living in some post-apocalypse and their little simulated mini-neighborhood was all that was left of humanity? Some sort of bizarre flat earth-esque scenario where there was no world beyond his neighborhood?Also I don’t get why Becca hasn’t/hadn’t come clean with Ryan by this point. Seems like it’d be very easy to explain how they’re safe as long as they’re there, and that his dad is a psychopath who should never be trusted. I mean, don’t tell him he’s the product of rape or anything, that’s a little too heavy for his age (or hell, probably any age) but still, make sure he isn’t so easily manipulated by Homelander.Also also, I don’t know why Butcher hasn’t gone back for Becca by this point now that he seems to have overcome his “only good supe is a dead supe” mentality with Starlight. He can tell Becca that he won’t just try to leave Ryan behind and mean it!
Disclaimer that I know nothing of the comic series and don’t want to.
My crazy theory is that the head popping has something to do with the weirdly prominent buzzing fly that’s been in several episodes at random times. Some sort of Ant-Man like spy that flies into people’s heads and blows them up. Why? What’s the significance? I DON’T KNOW!
Don’t worry, it’s radically deviated from the comics so much that they’re each very much their own thing by now.
I feel very stupid now, because… what buzzing fly? I think I’ve managed to entirely miss this!
Didn’t notice that, but I like it.
In terms of violence, I don’t think anything in the history of this show can compare to its first minutes – when Hughie’s girlfriend was demolished by A-Train. I have never seen anything like that on a screen. It certainly set the tone And the theme: unchecked power out of control, hurtling both away and toward its destruction. That very last shot of Butcher was perfect.
Man, they really did a number on Butcher this season. He went from being such a charming asshole who I was rooting for last season to completely insufferable this whole season. I’d rather spend time with any of the other Boys and most of the villains (even the Deep!)
Hope they let the character be more fun next season as those scenes with his dad (and most others this season) were such a slog.
Counterpoint: He was an insufferable asshole last season too (after the first few eps). I feel like he hasn’t changed much tbh
Is it just me, or was that a very brief Jack From Jupiter appearance in the porno movies? (The guy with the red cape in the ring of other dudes.)
I wonder if that’s a subtle hint as to who’s doing the head-sploding?
My guess is whoever is exploding the heads is connected to the Not-Scientology church The Deep is currently in because theyve gone through this entire season running parallel to the main storyline but never being fully integrated in it.
Also, A-Train’s would-be replacement got conveniently squished, the only Super to die in that bloodbath.
With dances with wolves, blind side, I was wondering if they were teasing something about a love of that white saviour narrative thing.
This is hands down the best episode of the season. Not just because of the intro and visuals of heads exploding, but just because finally there is some forward mpovement in the plot. I said it the last couple of weeks, but the show’s gross out “love scenes” and over the top visuals was to me kind of covering up that the Boys part of the plot was really spinning its wheels and they really had no plan. They were basically just investigating some parts of Vaught and fleshing out their characters.Even in this episode, the weakest part of it was Butcher meeting his parents. I never like character beats that mainly tell us something we could probably surmise or already know. Yeah, Butcher is a mean guy, and it stands to reason his father was also a jerk to him. But season one established he was a pretty well adjusted guy before his wife disappeared. (same reason I did not like Becca ret-conning out of nowhere he was angry before she left since the season one flashbacks did not imply that at all.)So that church is controlling the head exploding girl from last episode, right? That is the only explanation that makes sense is she is a church member. The new speedster dying was a big clue that the church was behind it. As someone said below, the Ebert rule of conservation of characters means that there isn’t someone else with the same power. Now they have to take A-Train and Deep back since now they are down two.Did Black Noir die or was just incapacitated..it was not clear.
The season 1 flashbacks were Butcher’s; of course they’re only pleasant memories. He didn’t perceive himself as being angry all the time so his memories reflect that.
Meh, they never have implied that the character flashbacks were a unreliable narrator. I think it is probably just sloppy and reconning
Incapacitated. In this show, when someone dies they let you know very unambiguously.
I doubt it’s Cindy. She was locked up for the earlier head exploding in the series and she seems to implode people rather than explode heads. She was also on the run last time we saw her. In fact I think she might be used as a scapegoat. I think it’s either Edgar himself or someone from the Church. Edgar obviously has the motivation to stop Vought’s early exploits from reaching the light of day. I’m assuming he’d try to chalk the attack up to a supe terrorist, though that’s awful convenient for Vought. Then you have A-Train and The Deep being spared while A-Train’s replacement was killed, which points to the Church. I guess they would be motivated to protect Vought seeing as the promise of getting people onto the Seven is their bread and butter. If that’s the case though, they’ve left Vought with a lot of explaining to do. Theoretically they could be working together as well: in return for Edgar getting AT and Deep back on the Seven some Church supe takes care of anyone giving testimony.
You make a good argument, and I guess we will see. But as I said, Ebert’s rule is it is probably cindy. Introducing a new character in the last episode is pretty anti-climatic. And the church said they had to finish working out a deal with Vaught to get Deep and A-train back. This would imply the deal was done and the church (who no one would expect) did it, because as you said, the timing of it is so convenient for Vaught they would be the prime suspects so they needed someone to do it with no visible ties to them. The church kills enemies of Vaught when i is badly needed in exchange for Vaught allowing the church greater access.
She implode’s people? She popped heads at Sage Grove. She also pulled doors off their hinges without touching them, which I thought implied she has the force-like powers like Kimiko’s bro did. Cindy appeared in the ‘previously on…’ segment that prefixed the episode, but she didn’t appear at all. That heavily implies that she was behind the head popping, but I agree that it seems that the Church has something to do with it. Maybe she’s working for/with them now.
Did Black Noir just…die?
Rule #1 of comic book shows/movies: If it’s not clear, (s)he’s not dead.Rule #2: sometimes when it is clear, (s)he’s not dead.
My problem with the cold open was when we get to that moment of the shooting in the convenient store, Tommy wasn’t even sure that shooting the clerk would work, saying something to the effect that “If you’re a supe, you’re bulletproof, right?”So what was his logic? If he questioned whether bullets would work on a super and if he was right, then what did he hope to accomplish? Since he was wrong, he just killed an innocent man.It’s a nitpick but I find that line confusing and unnecessary. We got enough information prior for his motivation to shoot the guy.
It’s witch test logic: try to drown a woman, if she drowns she wasn’t a witch. Some people really are that stupid.
Yea he was basically trying to “out” the guy. He had no plan for what he would do if he really was a supe
To be fair the Spanish Inquisition operated under this same logic when dealing with suspected witches and demons for roughly 300 years.
I have to say, after reading reviews for 2 seasons I’m super proud of everyone in the comments keeping that Black Noir Twist to themselves. I’ve read the comics and am very curious how this is gonna go…..Black Noir=Edgar???? Seriously though, At this point, who knows!
I thought the movies picked were designed to disgust white supremacist Stormfront. A movie about how shitty white folks treated Native Americans and a movie about a white woman helping a homeless black guy are sure to annoy the hell out of her as some sort of “SJW bullshit” she sees as weakening “the culture”
Despite the vagueness of this review title, it nevertheless spoiled me on the outcome.“oh, something ‘disturbing’ is coming. Okay, okay. Nothing disturbing yet. Okay, okay. OH! It’ll be in the last five minutes. OH that means it’ll involve the hearing. OH I bet lots of people die there.”Yup. Not blaming the article’s existence, but there’s only so many ways this show does “disturbing” and excessive violence seems like it’s their go-to.
For me, the disturbing part was the intro. Disturbingly close to reality (I guess tv/movie adaptations are mostly about using an original work’s lego pieces to build a representation of current issues and concerns). So the question was quick over.I don’t find head popping disturbing enough. It amuses me. It’s looks refreshingly cartoonish, and also I’ve been desensitized by years of videogames (specifically: Lemmings).
The opening sequence was quite the dark coda to the Advanced Dungeons and Dragons episode of Community. How long until someone on the internet recuts it with Fat Neil and the soothing sounds of Daybreak?
Underrated scene of the week…MM to Hughie ‘’all you had to do was watch porn’’ Followed by Becca and Homelanders scene. The scene was so well done I actually believed she was getting through to him.
I love Karl Urban. I love John Noble. But their ‘English’ accents are fucking awful! Mrs Patmore should have put the two antipodean actors right. Anyone else finding Hughie completely pointless?
Well they’ve been rather non-subtle with how weak he is recently, which makes me think they’re ramping up to him getting powers. Or maybe he will continue to mostly be Butcher’s “canary in the coal mine”, there to keep Butcher, well, not honest, but at least from going off the deep end. That being said, his actions in this episode did result in saving Annie and her mother (they didn’t have a way out otherwise), and while the group was angry with Hughie for the rescue as it resulted in Lamplighter dying before he could testify, that clearly wouldn’t have mattered, seeing as Butcher was able to get a better replacement, and whoever would have testified would have been killed anyway.
I’m glad you’ve raised this! I don’t want to be one of those ‘my accent isn’t done right on TV’ people but I genuinely couldn’t tell if the entire Butcher family were Brits or not because all I can hear is Kiwi from Karl Urban. I’m a big fan of his in this role and elsewhere, but both him and John Noble were coming across as incredibly half-arsed in their accents, even in Lord of the Rings which was a mess as far as accents went (I still can’t tell what Viggo Mortensen is trying to do there) the two of them seem to give it a fair crack as Eomer and Denethor respectively. Then again, Lesley Nicol seemed to bring her accent into consistency with the two of them, and you could potentially argue they were doing that generic Londonish accent that Americans love on TV that can sound fake even coming from actual Brits!
In the book of bad accents though, I don’t feel they surpass Charlie Hunnam in Green Street as downright awful.
But Charlie Hunnam is English.
Yeah as an American what Karl Urban is doing seems in line with the typical type of English accent that is done on American TV but even I felt like I was detecting a hint of New Zealand or Australia in there. As for John Noble wow! First of all I feel so stupid in that I never realized he was Australian but I had no idea what he was going for in that scene. I think maybe he was just trying to match whatever Urban was doing so they could plausibly be father and son?
I don’t understand why they didn’t just make Billy ex-SOC so he wouldn’t even have to mess with an accent. It’s not like that particular aspect of his background makes any huge difference.
Why does the multicultural, multiracial, wannabe woke company want to usher in a Nazi Superhero regime?
Best episode ending ever.
I reckon I’m echoing things already said but I’m too drunk and lazy to read through all the comments to find out, so: 1) 8-year olds are fickle beasts; doesn’t take much for them to turn on the person who raised them, but then forget why they were mad the next morning;2) Becca’s choices in film clearly lean towards the ‘white saviour’ narrative; 3) Do all British men look exactly the same when they hit a certain age? When John Noble popped up my immediate thought was “hey, it’s Bill Nighy!” only to realize it was actually Walter Bishop. I love John Noble, and am ashamed at myself for not recognizing him right away, but I think I have a point here…the hair dye job didn’t help…
One thing I’m sure of is that Cindy isn’t the head exploder. She clearly does not like Stormfront and would have tried to explode her head. It’s either the church or Egdar
I know it’s a dick move to point out but Karl Urban, and John Noble weren’t actually in any scenes together in the Lord of the Rings
This the first week this season hasn’t a Hughie adjacent Billy Joel reference or did I just miss it?
I feel like they missed an opportunity to give us porn parody names for The Seven because unless Vought is producing the porn themselves (which they might be) I would assume they own the copyright to those names.
Titles containing supes like:
Bonelander
Queef Maeve
The Deeper
Black Nards
Run A Train
Damp Like Her
Trans Pubes Scentsurely would bring fewer lawsuits.
“Wouldn’t Vought be upset about Homelander and Stormfront essentially kidnapping Ryan?”Well they already basically said they will let Homelander do whatever he wants with Ryan so…
The inclusion of Billy’s upbringing just drove home how terribly similar he and Homelander really are; Vogelbaum pretty much parroted exactly what Butcher the elder laid out as his rationale for treating Billy and his brother so terribly. They both intentionally turned good kids into monsters for their own ego.
“I must admit that I’m bummed the Black Noir of the show does not seem to match the Black Noir of Garth Ennis’ original comic books.”No surprise at all as Nathan Mitchell is cast as Black Noir since the show started.
That opening was chilling. What a season