The banter of this episode! The banter. I was furiously writing down jokes before I realized that this was just going to be one of the most elemental parts of this show, the chocolate in the chocolate chip cookie. The show is really funny, and it shows promise in being hilarious every week. I mentioned this in my last recap, but Bucky and Sam have one of the most organic dynamics in the MCU. It helps that the actors have a strong connection, both with each other and with the original Cap, Chris Evans, but their camaraderie is relatable to one of the oldest tropes of male friendship: they’re both soldiers. Or veterans, though I’m not sure if they’d describe themselves that way now. Between Sam’s government contracts and Bucky’s urge to make amends, it’s clear that they’re disinterested in letting their fighting days stay in the past.
That kind of funny, familiar, respectful but childish bickering among soldiers is rare in the movies but wonderfully expanded in TV shows. The Korean War-set M*A*S*H picked up on that funny brotherly spitefulness, Band Of Brothers has a wide array of these surreal bonding moments, and the one-season-wonder sitcom Enlisted actually made the main soldier characters brothers. Despite their churlishness and frustration, Sam and Bucky clearly care about one another and hold each other in high respect. In fact, Bucky’s main frustration, as it comes out in their soul-gazing (!) therapy session (!!), is that Sam giving up the shield says something about Cap being wrong about Sam, and maybe Cap being wrong about him.
Sam responds the same way every friend that’s tired of having the same fight seven times in one week: Did Bucky ever think he was doing what he thought was right?
Can I say what a relief it is to have such an emotionally intelligent main character in this show? Sam is wary of the new Captain America, wary of Bucky’s simplification of Cap’s legacy, and wary of seeing the Flag-Smashers reduced to a terrorist organization. I mean, I guess if you’re comparing him to someone like the rich, sheltered, and arrogant Tony Stark, or even the man lost in time, Steve Rogers, anyone would come across as more aware of the world and himself. But as the police cars that surround Sam and Bucky when they’re simply bickering in the street emphasize, Sam simply cannot move through the world the way Cap (or even Bucky) did. He is constantly aware of himself and how the world reacts to him.
It’s almost maddening that Bucky doesn’t seem to understand Sam’s viewpoint, especially after Isaiah Bradley (Carl Lumbly) is introduced. Bucky met Isaiah in 1951, during the Korean War, when Isaiah was sent to find him on the peninsula after so many others had died trying. Apparently he ripped part of Bucky’s arm off, which, even for a secret super soldier seems like an amazing feat. Bucky takes Sam to him after they realize the Flag-Smashers are all supersoldiers.
And then Isaiah goes deeper into his story: for his success, they jailed him for 30 years, and ran experiments him on a regular basis. It’s sickeningly familiar to not just the Tuskegee experiments, but the myriad ways that Black people in the United States have been experimented on and targeted by the criminal justice system, while given little to no recourse. I would link to some of those stories, but you can do the research yourself when you have the stomach for it.
As it was, I was tearing up just listening to Isaiah talk, as Lumbly does so much with such a short scene. It’s clear that Sam is just as rattled. Bucky tells him that Cap didn’t know about Isaiah, but he also didn’t want to expose Isaiah to any more unwanted attention. But this is exactly what Sam has been trying to emphasize to Bucky. If he had taken the shield and done what he’d wanted, he would not be treated with grace or kindness, not by the U.S. government and perhaps not even the American people. He would not be welcomed as a hero because he’s barely treated with any respect as it is.
There’s something really amazing about how this series is slowly leading us to how Sam can become Captain America. It’s clear that it’s not a problem of nerve or intelligence or compassion. It’s that Sam feels there is no easy way to go into the role without feeling like an imposter – or even worse, being treated as one. While Bucky is frustrated with Sam “giving away” the shield, it’s because he sees Sam’s goodness as incredibly obvious. Of course Sam should be the Captain America in Bucky’s eyes – not just because Cap trusted him, but because Sam helped find and protect Bucky with just as much emphasis as Cap did. For Bucky, if that act wasn’t good and kind and compassionate enough for Sam to naturally walk into the role of Captain America, maybe Bucky isn’t good enough to be worth those risks. And if Bucky can’t turn to Cap to legitimize his worth, Bucky longs for Sam to lead him instead.
It helps that they are also united in their intense dislike and distrust of the new Captain America, John Walker. Played by Lodge 49’s Wyatt Russell
with an incredible balance of friendliness and a more sinister edge, John steps into the role of Captain America with all the comfort and righteousness of someone who feels assured of his owning it. Even while we see him in a vulnerable moment, he’s in his high school locker room, reminiscing about the good old days before his girlfriend and best friend come and pump him up. Apparently he’s there to give an interview at his old high school! That’s definitely a sign of someone who’s experienced strife in his life, and learned from it, and doesn’t take his successes and job for granted, right? On a totally unrelated note, so funny how the new Cap turned out to be a white guy—so lucky how that just worked out!
Despite his fears, John reads as both humble and relatable on camera, even as the interviewer points out his many accomplishments. Not only was he a celebrated special ops soldier with three Medals of Honor, he scored really high in strength and “intelligence,” which I’d really want to know more about. He emphasizes that he’s not Tony Stark or Bruce Banner, but what kind of intelligence does he have exactly? Even saying what his college major was would mean something. And yes, I checked, they do have majors at West Point.
He jumps into the role not just at his old high school, but when he suddenly appears on the scene as Sam and Bucky follow the trail of the Flag-Smashers. He appears on the scene at the last minute… even though he later reveals he was following the whole thing through Sam’s Redwing tech. Bucky and Sam can barely stand him, and while Sam tries to give him more of a chance, he gives up when John essentially says that having Cap’s sidekicks (sorry, “wingmen”) would help legitimize him as Cap. “It’s always that last line,” he says, as he follows Bucky off the truck. While John is unrelenting in wanted to hunt down the Flag-Smashers, Sam is not as gung-ho. As he says, John’s dismissal of the Flag-Smashers’ needs for resources is something only someone with resources would say.
The Flag-Smashers are given a lot more sympathy in this episode. Led by Karli Morganthau (Erin Kellyman, a woman with the most enviable freckles I’ve ever seen), their slogan is “One People, One World,” a much more idealistic philosophy than they’ve previously been painted. Their current host and sympathizer even refers to them as “Robin Hood.” But they’re on the run not just from the government, but from someone they call “The Power Broker,” who may also be the person texting Karli death threats.
Stray observations
- What was the funniest moment for you? When Bucky fell through the trees? When they had to get real close for a therapy session? When Bucky celebrated the death of Falcon’s Redwing drone? No wrong answers here.
- Apparently there is the Global Repatriation Council to help people after the Blip.
- Bucky read The Hobbit in 1937? What a nerd. What else do you think he read? The Great Gatsby? The Jungle by Upton Sinclair? A Tree Grows in Brooklyn by Betty Smith? The answer to that last one might surprise you.
- I like how the subtitles call Sam “Falcon” and John “John.” We know whose side these captions are on!
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It’s worth mentioning that, in the comics, Isaiah Bradley was the first black Captain America. Basically, after Erskine died, Project Rebirth worked on recreating the super soldier serum by taking 300 black soldiers and performing illegal and unethical experiments on them. Of the 300, on Isaiah and four others survived long enough to see actual combat, of which Isaiah was the only survivor. He went AWOL on a mission to liberate a death camp and stole a spare Captain America uniform. He ended up being captured by the Nazis but was rescued by Resistance forces and smuggled back into Allied territory. Upon his return, he was thrown in prison for decades for stealing the uniform until he was pardoned in the 60’s. As a side effect of the serum, he suffered mental degradation.Though, in the comics, Steve and Isaiah did meet. He had two
I just read this about two months or so ago. I was SMILING ear to ear when they introduced Isaiah and I’m so hopeful they use him in this story. It’s weird how I feel like MCU fans NEED to know this character as though he was a real person.
A funny thing about Lamar is that, before he went by Battlestar in the comics, he went under the alias of…”Bucky”.See before the Winter Soldier was introduced, Bucky was used as a codename for Cap’s sidekicks after Bucky Barnes was presumed dead.This includes Jack Monroe. He was Bucky under William Burnside, the “Commie Smasher Captain America”. He later went under the alias of Nomad after Steve went back to being Captain America during the first time he quit.And Professional Sidekick Rick Jones, who became Bucky for a time.
Then Dwayne McDuffie was like “uh hey maybe let’s not call a Black dude Bucky” and Battlestar was born!
Thank God for Dwayne McDuffie, truly one of the best. I wish he was around to give his commentary on the MCU….
Or if he was in charge of the DCEU instead of the hack.
Or steer the DCEU in the right direction
The official reason Marvel gave was that several Black readers wrote Mark Gruenwald to explain ‘Bucky’ was a racist term in several areas of the South. Not saying the great Dwayne wasn’t one of them but I thought this name change predated his career in comics.
Source? Because mine says the opposite:https://www.cbr.com/captain-america-dwayne-mcduffie-racism/(Would hyperlink but Kinja’s being screwy with it.)
Apparently that was going around for a bit, but then someone else said, “No, it was McDuffie” and that Gruenwald was horrified when he was told what it could mean.
I vaguely remember Ronald Reagan foghorn whistling about “young bucks driving Cadillacs” while bitching about welfare.
Yeah, the writer even acknowledged his mistake in the comic.
It’s a great example of how this should work. Dude makes a mistake based not out of malice but a knowledge gap, when people inform him he doesn’t get defensive and instead immediately works to change it, and rather than just slipping that change by he uses the mistake to explain to others what he didn’t know to prevent such an error from occurring in the future.
As Alan Sepinwall pointed out in his review, Battlestar stopped using the codename “Bucky” after Dwayne McDuffie pointed out to Mark Gruenwald that “buck” was a racial slur, which was then written into the comic:
https://www.rollingstone.com/tv/tv-recaps/falcon-winter-soldier-recap-episode-2-star-spangled-man-1147434/
Nobody would guess the secret identity of that baby.
But then you guessed it, Frank Stallone.I hope Jack Flag and Free Spirit appear on this show next.
Casting Carl Lumbly as Isaiah Bradley was inspired. I’m so glad they brought this character into the MCU. He deserves to be given the spotlight. Much like Josiah X and Eli Bradley do, too. (I do wish we’d seen that fight between Isaiah and Bucky, though.)
I was shocked by how old he looks. Obviously enhanced for the show but I just figured the dude was ageless.
He’s 69, which was quite a shock to discover after knowing him so well from Alias.
Dixon!
Still pretty spry for a guy in his nineties. And he’s never been on ice like Cap or Bucky.
I agree, but I’m also kinda in awe of my own Grandpa. He graduated high school in 1950, he’s 89 now, and will turn 90 on Christmas Day 2021. And he looks fucking amazing (he was in the Plumbers and Pipe-Fitters Union for 57 years and still looks like a 1950’s wrestler, like he could throw a motorcycle over his head.)
I legit didn’t realize it was him for a few moments. I remembered reading he was in this, but damn.
I didn’t realize that was him until reading this review. Explains why it was such a good performance!
I was wondering why he looked so old. Shouldn’t the serum have prevented a lot of that? Maybe I’m just fuzzy on my movie plots.
Cap looks old as hell when he ages in real time for Endgame, it makes sense that another non-frozen supersoldier (especially one with an inferior serum and who had a far more traumatic life) would look his age.
I guess I was wondering more in comparison to Bucky. I didn’t think Bucky had been frozen, but he doesn’t look old. It’s been a while since I watched Winter Soldier, though so maybe I’m just remembering wrong.
The Winter Soldier is called that because he’s kept frozen and thawed out temporarily for missions, explaining his own youth.
Oh, wow. I feel very foolish. I completely forgot that. Thanks for the refresher.
Nothing foolish about not remembering a barely-mentioned plot detail from a seven-year-old movie.
Oh they’re definitely setting up Young Avengers for a future Phase.
I’m rather cool on the rest of the show, but Carl Lumbly as Isaiah Bradley is absolutely going to keep me watching. Just the right actor for that role, and I hope they get it right.
De-age Carl Lumbly and Lawrence Fishburne and let’s get a team-up mini-series going!
Casting Carl Lumbly as Isaiah Bradley was inspired. Yes, and he does have some experience being a superhero as well!
He was also Martian Manhunter in the Justice League cartoons in the 2000s, and played Martian Manhunter’s dad in the CW Supergirl series.
Yup I remembered that just after I made the post, but if I’m not mistaken I think Carl made history by being the first black lead on a superhero tv series. FYI, I think Robert Townsend was the first black lead in a superhero movie in his self-directed Meteor Man, then Shaq a few year later in Steel.
Not to mention that he was J’onn J’onzz, the Martian Manhunter, in the Justice League animated series. And has played J’onn’s father in Supergirl for several years now.
You guys know Sebastian Stan is uncut, right?
mohammad malekpournice post <3
محمد ملک پور
John Big Soldier. John Big War Man. John Must Be Stupid. Har. Har.
For fuck’s sake.
He’s not stupid, though. He’s shown as being very good with the shield. Likely a heroic and worthy soldier in most respects. But is that enough to carry on Cap’s legacy, especially in the 21st century? That’s the question the show’s asking, it seems, and it’s a good one.
No, he’s not stupid and you don’t get into or out of West Point by being stupid. And three CMHs basically makes him the closest thing to a Super Soldier ever produced without serum. But apparently, that’s not enough for the reviewer, who uses “intelligence” in quotes and had to look up West Point.
It’s fucking insulting.
I mean, I would say that’s as much, if not more, of an indictment of the government then of the soldier. Cap’s entire arc was about how he went from a soldier in the US army to a man of conscience, which put him in direct conflict with those power structures. It stands to reason that the government would choose someone much more like the asshole who Tommy Lee Jones wanted to give the super soldier serum to then Erskine’s choice of mettle and fundamental kindness and decency.
This is all fair. John Walker clearly doesn’t have the life experiences of Steve Rogers – orphaned young, sickly, looked down on – much less Sam or Isaiah.
And my guess is this will end up with Walker getting the Super Soldier serum and going off the deep end. My beef remains with the idea that a decorated soldier is a moron.
That would seem like a cop-out and imitating The Boys instead of how U.S Agent was portrayed in the comics.
kill yourself
Without getting too spoiler-y, John Walker’s identity being public in the comics led to some pretty tragic consequences. Will be interesting to see if FATWS goes in that direction…
i mean, he joined the military, kinda says it all, right?
It’s always that last line…
Rogers, Bucky, Rhodey and Sam all did too, you know.
I think a lot of the stigma comes from the fact the MCU has more or less dumbed down the military/government in most projects so far to make the heroes shine or to keep the plot from falling apart.It has kinda gotten to the point in the MCU where soldiers are just cannon fodder no more skilled than the average person off the street; where it used to be that taking out a few military guys was a sign the hero was super special, not it is just par for the course. Plus, the MCU often has to ignore things like snipers or tactics to give the heroes a fighting chance.
Wait, this is a really good point and I’d love to hear you expand on it.
This is the thing about articles like the occasional Cracked “8 Movie Tropes That Science Says Are Wrong” or whatever. Nitpicky experts in any particular discipline can bitch and moan about how fiction misrepresents their discipline but they aren’t the ones trying to write an engaging narrative. That theoretically appeals to a fairly broad audience. Does the story really *need* to spend 10-15 minutes or more explaining every nuanced bit of minutiae about every element on screen? No. Some shit gets the shorthand and nitpickers need to move on.
Excellent point. The military has become the “average cop” of an 80’s action movie — narrow minded, by-the-book, not that smart, oblivious to most everything.Watching I wondered why the super-soldiers just didn’t carry guns, since it appears bullets take even the super-soldiers down quickly. “Plot necessity” appears why, so not many snipers allowed, and every bad guy seems to prefer hand to hand combat.Overall, I can suspend disbelief, more than the Star Wars Universe, which depends on every bad guy having extremely bad aim, even down to the droid level.I like Walker so far, because I can’t figure what his nature ultimately is, and Marvel does not often pull a “Scooby Doo” ending with complexly written characters.
How’s that boot taste my man?
Oh man, I was definitely not implying that he was stupid! It’s more that “scoring high in intelligence” is a strangely ephemeral remark. Like, is it just that he had a high IQ (which has some icky racist implications)? Or maybe he studied political science? Or something related to medicine? Of all the things I implied about him, I don’t think stupid was one of them. Also, I didn’t dismiss the Medals of Honor or West Point. I’m sorry if that’s how you felt, but I really didn’t think that’s what was coming across in my language. I think that’s a bit of an unfair critique. However, I’ll try to be more careful with my wording in the future.
Not only was he a celebrated special ops soldier with three Medals of Honor, he scored really high in strength and “intelligence,” which I’d really want to know more about. He emphasizes that he’s not Tony Stark or Bruce Banner, but what kind of intelligence does he have exactly? Even saying what his college major was would mean something. And yes, I checked, they do have majors at West Point.
First, thank you for responding. I do appreciate it.
Second, I take major issue with “intelligence” in quotes like that, especially compared to strength, which isn’t. It implies brawn over brains and that he doesn’t have the same critical-thinking skills that a tactician and special ops soldier would have to have. I take strong exception, as the son of an Air Force man, at the har har behind “Yes, they do have majors at West Point” (especially since you could have reported your findings that, among others, nuclear engineering, kinesiology and environmental science are majors)
Lastly, it is indisputable that his white skin gave him advantages that Sam didn’t have – or at least, had to work harder to earn. It is further indisputable that his natural strength and non-Depression nutrition gave him advantages Steve Rogers didn’t have pre-serum. All givens and the show appears to be exploring that. None of that means his intelligence is in question.
Ah, okay. So I was mainly aiming at the show’s writing there. I think saying someone went to West Point is just like saying they went to Yale — it’s a quick note to emphasize that they’re smart and accomplished without saying much more. But when a lawyer or a doctor says they go to Yale, you know what they probably studied. And a military person saying they went to West Point also highlights them as being especially accomplished, but it’s also pretty obvious what they studied based on their role in the military — or it’s simply not as relevant.But what does a Captain America study? I would’ve liked more details on that! What are his exact qualifications for the job? Him studying international relations rather than medicine or even compared to philosophy or English would make a difference. That could be me being a nitpicky nerd and expecting a really high level of detail from the show.Finally, just want to reiterate that I do feel really bad that that’s how my comment made you feel. I also have friends in the Air Force and mentors who taught at West Point! I hope you can understand that it was wording that was wrong, but not my intent.
Ma’am, thank you for responding not just once, but twice. I do appreciate you taking the time.I see your point about what he studied. Most likely, given his career path as, it wasn’t engineering or the hard sciences, but more likely a tactical path of some kind.
And the writing was likely trying to shoehorn in a whole bunch of exposition into a very short space, so it shorthanded “tested high in strength and intelligence.”
So, thank you and I do understand your intent and get that you weren’t meaning offense.
you guys are doing the internet wrong. you’re supposed to be cussing at each other. or kissing. one or the other!—-also, can i just say how AWESOME it is to have the TRUTH mini-series that introduced Isaiah Bradley brought into the canon of the MCU? that series is probably one of my faves from the last deca… wait, 2003? shit, i’m old.
I was explaining the TRUTH storyarc to someone earlier and I started with “well it was this story from a little while ago” then pulled up a wiki to show some images and saw the date. God damn it…
I have been trying to get my trade paperback book club to read this for a while. Dug it out of storage a couple weeks ago. Great book (even if i am not a huge fan of the art).
AMEN. I was honestly kinda not feeling the entire series but when the camera panned across Baltimore I realized where they had to be going and went from zero to stoked in about ten seconds. And Carl Lumbly absolutely brought it.
‘And the writing was likely trying to shoehorn in a whole bunch of exposition into a very short space, so it shorthanded “tested high in strength and intelligence.”’Would you be explaining how TV writing works to a white male TV reviewer?Your entire comment thread here is pretty off-base. The review didn’t say anything negative about the military or West Point.
No, I was agreeing with her in that the writing could have been better, but I posited it was trying to cram too much in.
So I guess I was manpositing.
Don’t feel bad for his weird reading comprehension skills or lack there of.
You’re way too nice Sulgana. I know American culture says we have to worship the military but you can push back a little bit. Nothing you said was wrong or offensive. You shouldn’t feel that you have to apologize to aggressive misreadings of what you said like this
You’re just crying over nothing. Probably some jingoist.
No, I don’t think I am.
Quotation marks can be used to highlight a word, which the author did, and them implied that the description of just “intelligence” was vague or insufficient. Steve Rodgers was usually described as a “tactical genius,” a very specific and skillset-revealing phrase. For someone like Walker with no serum, knowing what sets him apart from other candidates would have been very useful.
I don’t understand your defensiveness over Walker. Brock Rumlow had similar badass credentials, but that didn’t keep him from turning out to be asshole. Walker puts out goofy vibes and the reviewer is having fun with it, yeesh.
Yeah, it didn’t. I have no idea what this clown is on about. I think it’s what the guy below me said. He’s just looking for something to be angry about.
I assumed they meant a test administered by the army, like the Armed Services Vocational Aptitude Battery (ASVAB). It’s basically an IQ test and I assume comes with at least some of the bias and baggage that regular IQ tests have.
I don’t think the reviewer was trying to insult his intelligence, just that the writing is awkward? “Scoring high in intelligence” is a line better describing an RPG character, not a human being. Like, better to just say he’s “educated” or “graduated from X” to emphasize his smarts.
I will agree that “scored high in intelligence” can mean a lot. IQ? – I do agree with Ms. Misra that such a measure can be problematic.
ACT/SAT? Good grades? My guess on what it really is? Performance reviews from the military, which are likely to measure problem-solving skills and critical thinking more than “book knowledge” skills.
And I think that’s genuinely why intelligence is in quotes and all the reviewer was asking here. Like, what exactly does “intelligence” mean?
I interpreted the “intelligence” as potentially signaling spycraft instead of, or in addition to, smarts.And the reviewer was uncertain about whether West Point cadets had majors, remedied that uncertainty through additional independent research, admitted the uncertainty to the public via this review, and provided a link to help others see for themselves. I see nothing wrong with any of that.
Agreed. That could have referred to his being a tactical genius, not necessarily all-around smart. I’d think that one could excel at West Point by showing exceptional ability at those skills highly values by the military. No matter how “intelligent” is, they can always have blind spots, big and small.
Well, except there’s a reading of it that implies the reviewer expected soldiers/officers to be dumb. Not knowing West Point is a fairly rigorous academic institution, having that confirmed, and just dropping that in instead of using the knowledge to change the tenor of the review would probably offend me if, say, I went to a service academy. (I didn’t, to be clear.)
And three CMHs basically makes him
goofily tryhard. Do you think anybody else in the MCU timeline was ever awarded 3 CMHs, or is this really just meant to say he’s better than every other great soldier in American history?
I mean, it’s the same thing as Bucky having read the Hobbit in 37—it was published in September 37, but in the UK and in a limited run. It didn’t make it to the US until 38. Technically possible? Sure. Remotely plausible? Not a little.But good on you missing the pandering to take umbrage about something else.
I am going to do whatever I can to make sure Hobbit 37 does not turn into the Han Shot First of the 2020s.
Here’s the deal. He is 106 years old. He read the book when he was 20. His brain has literally been pulled apart, put in a blender and put back together dozens, if not hundreds of times.
He got the fucking year wrong. Period, end of story. Shit like this is why they picked on us in high school.Well, they say explicitly that Walker is the only one who ever got three CMHs, so no one else did in the MCU timeline.I did a dive on multiple winners. 19 people have won two CMHs and five of those got two for the same deed. (The Navy and the Army can each issue them)
For a while, the military passed a rule against multiples, but in 2014, Congress ruled you can get more than one, but no longer multiple for the same deed.
So, Walker would need to have had three different engagements worthy of winning it.
If that’s the cause you want to serve, by all means. But what I’m saying is those two details aren’t bad because they’re wrong—they’re bad because they’re overspecific, but in really generic ways.The well, ACTUALLY about Bucky is simply that memories don’t work that way! Let’s assume that Bucky’s a teen when he reads the Hobbit. How many books did you read when you were a teen, where you can both remember the calendar year you read it and that’s the first thing you’d say about it?And it’s the same thing with Walker. The locker room scene’s not played like he was the waterboy and there’s no indication that he got the supersoldier serum. I don’t think it’s actually said that he went to college, West Point or otherwise, so maybe his intelligence is notable because he’s locked out of programs without a degree, and if it turns out later that he’s been enhanced, that could make more sense in terms of MIT testing his body.
But the military already tests its soldiers and it loves using them as PR, it’s just usually psychotic. Remember Stanley McChrystal? That guy had “off the charts endurance”, but nobody bothered testing it, it was just 5+ years of fawning profiles about how he slept 3 hours a night, worked out every morning and only ate dinner. That’s insane! But it’s relatable because it’s in terms of things that everybody does. It’s not wrong or untrue to character, it’s just bad writing in terms of what it’s trying to communicate.
He got the year wrong because whichever research assistant they assigned to get the year grabbed the wrong date.But if you need a real reason, his father did work in England and brought it back. Happy?
Are you seriously going to die on that hill? Sam had just asked Bucky how he knew about the Hobbit. Bucky was clearly flexing about the fact that he knew what year the Hobbit was published, he had read the Hobbit before Sam was even born, and that in fact he was alive when the Hobbit was first published. That is why he claimed that he read it in 1937. He was making a point. Alternately, he could have forgotten that he read it in 1938. As has been demonstrated many times, human memory is imperfect.
I mean he was at war so it’s possible he picked up a copy somewhere.
I blame the “1937” on the writers googling “What year was The Hobbit published?” and deciding to hit it too on-the-nose. But it’s totally plausible that Bucky remembered the publication date as 1937 and knew he read it when it first came out, so assumed it was 1937 even though it was actually 1938.
Maybe you don’t get into West Point by being stupid, but if the last few years have said anything, they definitely don’t mind if you’re both intelligent and a sexual harasser.
Thank you for your service sir!
I haven’t watched the episode yet, but even in the comics, even while being a Colossal asshole, John Walker is at his core a decent person
There’s a Spider-Man issue where Tarantula and Walker as Cap get sent to deal with undocumented citizens. Tarantula is working with drug lords who have their own agenda and a U.S. handler named “Gulliver South” – never subtle, those 1980s Marvel writers – orders Walker/Cap in there.
Walker sees the immigrants cowering before the symbols on his uniform and watches Tarantula’s methods and ends up making his own choices. He abandons the mission, lets Spidey capture Tarantula and beats the holy shit out of Gulliver South.
I don’t know they have in mind for John Walker here, but I hope there are moments like that before he goes full-on asshole.
But rest assured, it won’t be because he took underwater basketweaving and Theory of Dodgeball at West Point.
That’s pretty much exactly how he was played here.
You’re just looking for something to be offended by. I was in the military and nothing about this was offensive so sit down.
No, I don’t think I will.
John Walker as an insufferable jackass who keeps popping up to annoy Sam and Bucky has been amazing.
I didn’t get that interpretation of him at all.
you’re one of those “support our troops. they are fighting for our freedom” kind of dude, aren’t you?
Yup.
First part yes. Second part no.
There certainly seems like a lot will have to be covered for this story to “end” in four more episodes. And Sam still hasn’t told Bucky exactly why he gave the shield up in the first place. It’s possible that there’s another reveal coming on that front. But if this season ends and John Walker is still in the Cap mantle, I’m not sure that’s going to go over well.
Not to be spoilery since this isn’t anything that isn’t in the trailer, but I have a feeling the “flag smasher” stuff is going to get resolved fairly succinctly in so much as we pretty much know who’s behind it and I don’t think that confrontation will ultimately be that intricate. Feige has alluded that he can’t comment on season 2 because of where the show goes and how it relates to the movies so I suspect we will have unresolved threads, but I’ll be surprised if Sam isn’t Cap by the end.
I could see the season ending with two Caps, Sam and Walker. I’m hoping that Walker survives the season, mostly because I think Wyatt Russell deserves the attention after Lodge 49 was cancelled.
I already like his portrayal. He seems competent. He’s not a jerk. Some charisma. He’s trying to be a leader, but isn’t inspiring. A poor man’s Steve Rogers who doesn’t have the “benefit” of growing up 4F.
That is very true and it hadn’t occurred to me until you said it now. Despite enjoying this episode, the “4 more episodes” thing does worry me.
I was not expecting them to bring Isaiah Bradley into the mix, though it makes sense in hindsight. Carl Lumbly brought a tear to my eye with his performance.
I was hoping they’d mention the ‘50s Cap and I’m so happy they used Isaiah Bradley instead of the other two white guys.
My favorite thing from this great episode is the fantastic marching band rendition of the Star Spangled Man With A Plan theme. So good!
I was distracted by how good the music was. And I’m not at all sure who all was representing at the rally. It was at Walker’s old high school but that was no high school marching band. If that’s an existing military band I want to know more.
Yes, I demand to see the full recordings of all the stuff this military band has done! An album even!
You obviously haven’t seen the better HS Marching Bands in this country.
These guys for example.
That was a New Orleans marching band, or somewhere from one of the surrounding states. The funk is real with those folks, they are basically the farm leagues for so many professional musicians and dancers. It was awesome.
I figured it was an HBCU band, definitely above high school level
Thank you very much for this! They’re getting very good with these logo songs
Listen…I went to an HBCU. I am a fan of HBCU bands of all stripes.THAT sounded like an HBCU band.
That is definitely an HBCU band, & definitely not the band of Walker’s old high school where the event is taking place.
…it made me want to watch an episode of Treme, haha.
This rivalry/don’t like each other thing has gotten old fast. I really don’t understand why they have such problems with each other. The two have fought side by side. Time to shut the fuck up & move on from whatever.
I dunno, seems pretty natural there’d be some (mostly low-key) rivalry between Cap’s old best friend/sidekick and new best friend/sidekick. And there’s no particular reason they would be friends – after all, how much time have they actually spent getting to know each other? They were probably together a few weeks/months when Bucky was first freed from Hydra, but he wasn’t really himself and was probably a traumatized asshole. Then Bucky left to go be morose by himself, then Civil War stuff, then Bucky was in Wakanda, then a big battle, then the snap, then after the unsnap Bucky wasn’t returning Sam’s calls. At this point, fighting side by side is pretty much all they’ve done together.
I dunno, seems pretty natural there’d be some (mostly low-key) rivalry
between Cap’s old best friend/sidekick and new best friend/sidekick.
Why?
And there’s no particular reason they would be friends
There’s no particular reason they wouldn’t be friends, either. They’ve shared battles & grief.
after all, how much time have they actually spent getting to know each other?
…
At this point, fighting side by side is pretty much all they’ve done together.
Fighting side by side usually brings people together. Knowing someone’s got your back while others are trying to kill you goes a long way.
(1) Have you never felt the least bit jealous when your best friend finds a new best friend? (2) Are you actively friends with everyone you trust? Just because someone has your back doesn’t inherently mean you’d enjoy going to a football game together. It’s not like they hate each other’s guts, they just get on each other’s nerves.
(1) Have you never felt the least bit jealous when your best friend finds a new best friend? No. People change, relationships evolve, people move on. Are you actively friends with everyone you trust? Yes. If I can’t trust you, then you can’t be a friend. It’s not like they hate each other’s guts, they just get on each other’s nerves. There’s
nothing saying they have to work together. If they don’t like each
other, there’s literally no reason for them to be together.
Sam become Steve’s partner is more than “people changing and relationships evolving” for Bucky, I would guess. Bucky got kidnapped and brainwashed, and lost out on years of friendship and partnership with Steve, which he instead had with Sam. Even after Bucky got better, he hardly got any time to be able to be friends with Steve, getting put on ice and then briefly fighting in Wakanda before getting snapped until the Endgame battle. Then Steve chose to go off and when he came back, he entrusted his entire identity to Sam. I think it makes complete sense that Bucky would feel a bit resentful toward Sam, and that resentment is even explained further this episode.As for why Sam is a jerk to Bucky, a lot of it is probably due to the fact that he tried to murder Sam while he was brainwashed.This is also all stuff that could get explored further in this show that’s literally about their relationship.
Oh wow, we, the readers, didn’t realize you’re so mature. But yes, now that you’ve posted saying that you are an emotionally mature person everyone else reading this believes you and doesn’t think you’re a tool.
I’m glad everyone on the internet who reads AV Club stuff now knows that you are an emotionally superior person with zero fallacies. Congratulations actually.
(1) Have you never felt the least bit jealous when your best friend finds a new best friend? (2) Are you actively friends with everyone you trust? Just because someone has your back doesn’t inherently mean you’d enjoy going to a football game together. It’s not like they hate each other’s guts, they just get on each other’s nerves.
(1) Have you never felt the least bit jealous when your best friend finds a new best friend?
No. People change, relationships evolve, people move on.
Are you actively friends with everyone you trust?
Yes. If I can’t trust you, then you can’t be a friend.
It’s not like they hate each other’s guts, they just get on each other’s nerves.
There’s nothing saying they have to work together. If they don’t like each other, there’s literally no reason for them to be together.
friends bickering is an old comedy trope. Without that, the show wouldn’t be funny. Can you really see them just getting along?
friends bickering is an old comedy trope. Without that, the show wouldn’t be funny.
Except it’s not funny, at least not how they’re doing it here. I kept expecting that doctor to just smash their heads together & say “Either shut the fuck up & work together or shut the fuck up & go your separate ways.”
That basically happened this episode
Maybe Bucky, being from the 1930s and all, is just “set in his ways.”
There’s definitely some macho envy going on between who had the better relationship with Steve. Bucky and Sam are basically the ex’s forced to get along. At least for me, the rivalry is unique enough that I can’t think of many buddy shows that quite had this specific a dynamic.
Bucky was an evil Hydra assassin for like decades I think? it would be unrealistic if he became fast friends with anyone
I do hope they show the parallels btwn Isiah’s cap and Wyatt’s cap.
I loved everything about this episode except the opening scene. The decision to flank John Walker with a black partner and a black best friend in order to give him a pep talk was deeply weird to me, especially given the themes of this show. If they’re going to commit to examining the institutional racism of the US government and the crimes it committed against Isaiah Bradley, they need to actually commit to it. Don’t make Walker a nice guy with black friends just trying to do his job. Make him a white supremacist All Lives Matter 2A loving asshole.
Legit not sure if you are serious or satirizing right now. I request elaboration.
I’m 100% serious. It feels like Marvel is trying to have their cake and eat it too. I’m really hoping we get more from Olivia and Hoskins and their relationship with Walker. Is he really worthy of the mantle of Cap? Do they know Steve entrusted the shield to Sam? Do they know Sam donated the shield to the Smithsonian under the impression that the mantle would be retired? Do they have any opinion of the government ignoring both Steve and Sam’s wishes and turning their friend/partner into walking talking military propaganda?
OK, it would be stupid narratively to make Walker a racist idiot. That would be making a straw man with a shield and he would be boring after two episodes.
Making him somewhere between “Who does this guy think he is?” to “He’s FINE! I suppose” and “OK, maybe he isn’t too bad” makes more sense because it forces Sam, Bucky, Sharon and others to really work to articulate why this isn’t the right choice.And why again are Steve Rogers wishes supposed to be recognized at all, let alone followed, by the government? Officially, he was still an outlaw, not only with no government support but with active government opposition.Plus, how do you think the government feels about Cap right now, since we know the entire story of the Snap is known, if not by the general public, then at least by people in the know. I guarantee a good chunk of people would be like, “Um, why aren’t we trading Vision’s life again?”
The other problem with making Walker a racist idiot is that a whole ton of people would have been involved in choosing the next Cap. I find it hard to imagine that at least one of them wouldn’t have gone ‘you know, maybe we shouldn’t choose someone hateful to be the next Captain America.’ The Cap movies have always skirted uncomfortably close to suggesting that the government can’t be trusted,* but they’ve also made a point of noting that the government is not a monolith – there are good people to be found in the bureaucracy. The idea that a commission specifically organized to pick the best of us would intentionally choose a blatant racist seems overly pessimistic, even for a show about institutional racism. Now, if Walker turns out to be a secret asshole/racist and they just didn’t think to check or missed the signs, that’s a different thing. *There’s a big difference between ‘don’t inherently trust those in power’ and ‘the guvmint is out to get me,’ and I think the Cap movies generally fell on the reasonable side of that – but the type of people who believe the latter are not generally the type to catch subtle distinctions…
Even before someone thought to make him Captain America, this guy won three CMHs. He’s already well-known and I guarantee someone vetted him for that kind of stuff before they threw medals around his neck like that.Also, Lemar Hoskins seems to be a real friend/comrade and not just some person of color they threw at him to be his “vice Captain America” for political purposes.I am far more interested in one of the following ideas:
1) John Walker is a relatively decent man destroyed by the expectations of the role, his own flaws, and whatever the serum does to him2) No one really can be Captain America because Steve Rogers was an absolute one in a billion shot, to the point where he was basically a Mary Sue for non-toxic masculinity.
Seriously, a guy is raised in the 20s and 30s, ignored by women, surrounded almost in entirely male environments (and the women in his life are chorus girls, fawning fangirls like Private Maergery Tyrell and Peggy) and then he sleeps through Civil Rights, Roe V. Wade, the ERA, the AIDS crisis and Anita Hill and still wakes up woke?
And I mean woke in the most positive sense you can give it.
OK, rant over
3) Captain America simply can’t be a government entity because government agendas change too much. Which is kind of how the Cap/Us Agent thing works out in the comics. Walker will be the official guy while Sam as Cap and his partner White Wolf will be the freelancers.
I’d also be fine with any of those three approaches, and I agree they’d be more interesting than “he was secretly a villain the whole time.” I’d want them to be careful with the messaging in (3), but so far at least, I trust them to be. (1) and (2) seem very integrated to me: Steve was unique because he started out one of the very weakest before becoming one of the very strongest, whereas Walker (as a metaphor for white/male privilege?) presumably never experienced true powerlessness or had to face his own shortcomings. It’s easy to be decent when it doesn’t cost you anything.
Also, Lemar Hoskins seems to be a real friend/comrade and not just some person of color they threw at him to be his “vice Captain America” for political purposes.I think the point is that was part of the vetting, an “Oh good, Walker already has a black best friend just like Rogers did,” not a “we need to get him a black best friend.”
Agree with everything except the “still an outlaw” part, with the surviving Avengers he was a part of allowed to operate five years after the snap. They do kind of gloss over Steve’s wanted status, but I think they expected us to connect those dots on our own and assume the government had bigger priorities and not enough resources to deal with a fairly unstoppable super soldier with deep connections.
I think you’re right, but since WandaVision tells us that a lot of people know exactly what happened, I think we can assume Cap, Tony, Nat and the rest of the survivors were debriefed, maybe even in public hearings.
Which leads me to this image of John Oliver.
Cap: “We don’t trade lives”
John: “Well, you kinda fucking did!”Also in the real world, whichever Sorcerers were left would be asked, “Wait, why didn’t we stick the Time Stone down a garbage disposal again?”
My point is that I really don’t know how Cap and the others are not considered pariahs, let alone loved.
I think it follows on the theme that the Govt would think to be sure he has a black ‘wingman’ just like Cap did, instead of having a black Cap!
Don’t make Walker a nice guy with black friends just trying to do his job. Make him a white supremacist All Lives Matter 2A loving asshole.Ok, but isn’t that one of the most insidious aspects of institutional racism? That it isn’t just brazen and barefaced?Isn’t “but, I have black friends” one of the lamest excuses that some racists use to try to prove they’re not racists? The lack of self-awareness, or worse the unwillingness for self-reflection, helps enable institutional racism.They’re only two episodes in, so maybe it isn’t all that deep, but doesn’t it seem like there’s something “off” about John Walker?
Isn’t “but, I have black friends” one of the lamest excuses that some racists use to try to prove they’re not racists? The lack of self-awareness, or worse the unwillingness for self-reflection, helps enable institutional racism.
100% this is what I hope we’re going to get. But it’s exactly why the first scene rubbed me the wrong way. These type of people are not humble. They’re confident about how wrong they are because they think they’re right. So why did the scene need two black folk to come in one after another to give him a pep talk?
They’re trying too hard to make him Steve Rogers-lite. I just think thematically the show would work better if he was characterized in a more contrasting fashion. I was being a bit hyperbolic by suggesting he be a white supremacist All Lives Matter 2A loving asshole; he doesn’t need to be that big of a caricature. But people like that do exist, and a lot of them are in the military. A few of them got arrested on Jan. 6.
That’s fair, but they were clearly positioned as his supportive friend and girlfriend. And, Lemar is clearly his sidekick. He’s fine when things are going his way, and they’re there to support him, but I’m curious what happens when he runs into deeper adversity. Maybe it’s just a cop out for John Walker not to be really a bad guy, but he was pretty dismissive of Sam (and Bucky) as just Steve’s sidekicks (or “wingmen”), and he snapped at them near the end when they rebuffed his overtures to work with him (or, for him). I’m hoping Disney has the guts to really let the mask slip if/when Sam takes up Cap’s mantle and Walker has to deal with the fact that he’s just a pretender.
I don’t really see why Walker’s personal qualities would really inform an exploration of institutional racism. It wasn’t Walker’s decision that he should become Captain America, he’s doing what he was invited/ordered to do by the government. If the government is uncomfortable or unwilling to imagine a black Captain America, that’s on them, not him.The issue regarding Steve’s wishes is something the series has rather muddled by having Sam actively, repeatedly decline the mantle. If he doesn’t want to be Captain America, then what’s the government supposed to do?
I had no idea Clé Bennett was going to be in this. He was great in Man in the High Castle, glad he’s getting some more work. The fact that I hadn’t heard about his casting/character makes me concerned that something bad might happen to him though.Also, it seems like most of the scenes from the trailers were from the first two episodes, which makes me excited for where this is going to go next.
Okay so Captain Pug is really starting to piss me off. I’m hoping for a horrific and slow death. As for Battlestar…nope. Both of them rub me up the wrong way (and not in a “ooh fun sexy times!” sort of failed-sexy-time sort of way either)The forced therapy session was hilarious, especially watching them get uncomfortably close to each other, but we got a peak into Bucky’s psyche with what he said to Sam. If Sam doesn’t realise or recognise that, to Bucky, his giving up the shield makes Bucky feel that he’s a fraud (after all, Steve risked everything for him) then Sam’s a fucking numpty.Loved the idea of other supersoldiers being created after the Second World War and particularly liked the double-punch of Isiah’s treatment and yet-another “oh my god, like, you’re The Falcon!” reaction from people in authority. I’m hoping the show continues to play on this theme, that PoC have been and continued to be shat upon from a great height by the country they served. Now, when are we getting to see our woman Sharon?!
I did enjoy the updated version of “Star-Spangled Man”. I wonder if they were pros, or an actual HBCU band.
Sure sounded like it, didn’t it?
Am I the only one thrilled to see that Bucky’s therapist was also Felicity’s therapist? Talk about people with issues…
Both Felicity and Bucky cut their hair too. She’s a bad influence!
You know, I was going to mention the hair cuts, but a) I wasn’t sure on the Felicity timeline, and b) revealing my knowledge of obscure Felicity characters seemed embarrassing enough.
Oh is that why Bucky isn’t as good at fighting anymore?
Not to mention she’s Hieronymus Bosch’s LT. She really gets around.
The Power Broker(s) being mentioned is a v-e-r-r-r-y interesting detail. I knew we were getting a take on Flag Smasher and Zemo, but this new secret party added to the mix has me pretty intrigued. It bears mentioning that John Walker was indeed a client of Power Broker Inc in the comics.
While the MCU is quite obviously seeding a Young Avengers with the debut of Elijah Bradley here, I think something to look out for is a low key formation of the Thunderbolts. Really depends what happens to Zemo in this series but if the rumours of a very coincidentally named “Thunderbolt” Ross appearing is true, he might build his own messed up Avengers when all is said and done.
Thunderbolts and Young Avengers seem to be the 2 big projects that continue to be unannounced but clearly are in the works for the past couple years, and they only get more obvious as more movies and shows come out. I mean, with Hawkeye and Ant-Man 3 castings, we are literally just Hulkling away from the original Young Avengers lineup (depending on what they want to do about Vision and Iron Lad) now.
Yeah, with Kang the Conqueror cast in Quantumania, that easily leaves the door open for Iron Lad (Cassie could be a bit of connective tissue to bring him into the fold when it happens); while the Nick Fury & Talos lead Secret Invasion series is apparently focused on the Skrulls, which might be an opportunity for Hulkling to appear – that or Captain Marvel 2 I guess.
(depending on what they want to do about Vision and Iron Lad)Ironheart for the latter; she’s already got a show coming. Maybe White Vision for the former, or maybe Kamala takes his spot on the team.
I’ve been wondering if they might combine Young Avengers and Champions a bit for the MCU. It’d mean Kamala and Ironheart are natural fits. Miles Morales is subtly established to exist in-setting, so it’d be a spot for him as well.
If I recall correctly, the creation of the Hulk (and all his rage… erm… “issues”) was a direct result of trying to recreate Erskine’s experiment.So take that, add in Isaiah’s obvious mental instability due to what was done to him, couple it with Bucky commenting that Walker seemed to be unusually volatile, along with a dash of suspicion about Walker’s vaunted “natural” abilities, and THEN add a dash of Powerbroker and… I think you see where I’m going.
I don’t think Walker is strong enough yet. I bet he taps out at Hawkeye or Black Widow level abilities. During that fight he didn’t do anything fantastical. He very slowly pulled himself up. And some point will attempt to get stronger either with Power broker or super soldier serum, goes crazy.
This is what I think we’ll happen too. I wonder if Walker will be more and more tempted to take the super serum because he’s struggling to match up to Cap’s legacy and it goes haywire.
It’d be a little lame for it to go haywire when we’ve already got multiple examples of fairly stable supersoldiers running around.It’d be much cooler for it to go perfectly fine. I think there’s a story to be told in the MCU about a low-powered version of Homelander. The stakes don’t have to be global, necessarily. “How do we even kill him?” doesn’t have to be the central question. It can be much more about the alignment of powers and perspectives on Earth, and how, unfortunately, there’s a place for an all-American white boy to smile and wave and reassure all the world’s white milquetoast conservatives that they’re all just great, and all these troublemakers are just the perennial leftist agitators.It’ll be Reagan 2.0, only this time he’ll be an American “hero” while he’s still young and hot! That’s so much better!
One of the keys for John Walker is that he’s not a Homelander type – he’s overly credulous and a bit of a jingoistic/reactionary dick…but he’s a good man.
He’s also, if I remember right, actually sort of an “improvement” on Rogers, in that he’s actually stronger and more powerful, he’s just not as good a person, or as capable a fighter. He’s far more of a cynic, and a more “modern” soldier.
Yep – he can punch harder than Steve, and take more punishment, but Steve will usually win an actual fight.And yeah, I’d say Walker’s defining characteristic is that he’s not a *bad* person, but he’s the *wrong* person to be Cap.
That might be true in the comics. But from what we’ve seen so far he definitely seems like basically a toned down version of Homelander, obviously in terms of not having super powers, but his personality seems like a santized, MCU-version of Homelander, bearing in mind that in the MCU no one is as psychotic and evil as even the good guys in The Boys
I…really disagree.This might come from having read both sets of comics, but Walker’s fatal flaw is that he’s very much a “Good Soldier,” when a good Cap can only be loyal to The Dream.I’d say Walker’s the guy Homelander plays on TV.
Another way to phrase it is that Walker’s a Boromir figure.
we’ve already got multiple examples of fairly stable supersoldiers running around.
For now.
Why do you insist on adding to my nightmares, friend?
He’s too nice, so far, compared to the comic-that guy was an asshole. I think he was an older guy, too. (Older than tv John Walker) . (Unless its all totally calculated.)
You might be right. I thought how they noted John’s conditioning was a bit strange, and he seemed to take a punch well and be unnaturally handy with the shield while going toe-to-toe with the rent-a-super-soldiers, but trailers have shown Falcon slinging the shield pretty well also, so it’s hard to say.
Something I remembered also is that a side effect of the Super Soldier serum (and all offshoots) was that it magnified the recipients personality traits – positive and negative. If Walker is naturally a bit brash or irritable now, that hot-headedness could become magnified moreso.
It could just be along the lines of what we got in the comics with different strains of the serum. No one was ever able to 100% recreate what Cap got, so people like Widow and Fury got (via retcons) versions that enhanced their natural physical abilities to a peak level and slowed their aging, but didn’t put them at real super human levels. Others got versions that put them up there with Cap but with terrible side effects. Others got Cap level powers, but they were not permanent.
They’ve never said so – maybe they will in her movie – but MCU Black Widow clearly has enhanced strength & durability, maybe speed too. Not Cap level, but more than (say) Gina Carano levels.
Not only Hulk but also Emil Blonsky/Abomination; but yeah, 100% on the money. It seems that this/these Power Broker(s) may be able to taketh away – that or the power boosts aren’t permanent and require re-ups – so John-boy’s irritability may be him being against the clock to get some results for his pusher.
Yeah I would be very surprised if we end up with Walker not having been juiced with some version of the serum, either from the Broker or just from the US government who got desperate after the Snap. Either way I’m willing to bet he probably doesn’t know he was.
I’m really glad we’re getting this, because it was absolutely a recurring theme in Phase 1 that there were a lot of people trying crazy things to get their own recreation of the Erskine formula and that’s definitely the sort of thing people would be willing to try again post Snap.
… and I thought I knew enough about Marvel. There’s an actual established character named Power Broker. huh. Kind of assumed it was a code word for a Loki appearance, even kinda hoping it would be Doom. But… (looks online) my word, it’s an actual character. Who knew?
Give me my Squirrel Girl!
Man I’m bummed that New Warriors never saw the light of day because Milana Vayntrub would have been a great Squirrel Girl (and Keith David as MODOK!)
Something I hadn’t appreciated as much about the MCU until that mention of the Power Broker is how establishing an actual continuity changes how you tell your story. In comics, storylines can stack on top of each other without much regard for what happened when — multiple would-be extinction-level threats just rise and are defeated in whatever sequence and most of them leave no lasting effects. But here we have the Flag-Smasher and the Power Broker rising because of the Blip, rather than as generic commentary on issues like anti-government dissent and wellness fads, which changes their character and motivation profoundly.
Of course they are seeding The Young Avengers, aside of Elijah Bradley here. The existence of Maximoff twins, Kate Bishop’s appearance is just around the corner (any months now), and Cassie Lang. It’s not a matter of IF, but WHEN.
Yup yup, preaching to the choir. Miss America Chavez is turning up in Doctor Strange: Multiverse of Madness also, which checks out with her origin if they happen to find themselves in a certain utopian reality – that or they just meet her during her dimension hopping escapades.
Glad you enjoyed the banter. It stopped working for me after a short while. It felt forced. The best parts of this episode were definitely not the ones where Bucky and Sam go back and forth.
I’m with you. It kind of feels they should build to that kind of relationship a bit more? The bit about the three types of threats felt like it came out of nowhere and reminded me of that bad Tarantino dialogue from “Crimson Tide” about the Silver Surfer. Just forced.
And the therapy session where Bucky pretty quickly says that if Steve was wrong about Sam than he was wrong about him… that came so fast. I guess they only have six episodes but they could’ve built to that as it’s a really personal insecurity to share. Especially from a guy who is not at all comfortable expressing his emotions verbally.That said, the introduction of Isiah Bradley and the scene right after with the prejudiced cops were well done, so the show’s a mixed bag for me so far.
I don’t know, Bucky’s been in therapy for a decent amount of time, and while he’s a very private person, he’s also fairly practical, so I kind of bought that he would be willing to go ahead and share that detail if he felt like it was necessary.It’s also interesting that there have basically been two versions of Bucky; TFA-era Bucky was a fairly cheery, confident, emotionally intelligent dude, while post TWS he’s been closed off and basically a cipher. Maybe old-Bucky is starting to creep back in.Agreed that some of the dialogue seemed a bit forced. The Big Three thing was funny, but it seemed like it came out of nowhere.
And the therapy session where Bucky pretty quickly says that if Steve was wrong about Sam than he was wrong about him… that came so fast. You ever have something that’s been weighing on your mind for days on end to the point it’s pretty much all you think about, but you bottle it up because you either have no outlet or feel it’s something best to try and squash (to no success)? And how because it’s churning around 24/7, all it takes is one little for all of that emotion to just burst out? That.
I guess they only have six episodes I also feel it’s pretty rushed. The therapist put Sam and Bucky in a session out of nowhere five minutes after meeting Sam for the first time? What would that even accomplish? Walker engineers the release of Bucky into his care as a new member of his team, but then Bucky and Sam immediately tells him “No thanks”, so that’s just it?Also, Bucky just walks into a USAF mission where Sam is just a contractor, nobody has anything to object? The former assassin guy who’s essentially on parole randomly gets on their plane, that’s swell, welcome aboard?
One thing that felt off in this episode is that when you think about it, Sam and Bucky really don’t know each other that well. They have minimal interaction during the events of Civil War, which takes place over a few days. At the end of that movie, Bucky is frozen in Wakanda and Sam becomes a fugitive with Cap. Sam and Bucky aren’t even in the same place again until ten minutes before the big battle in Wakanda at the end of Infinity War, which results in both of them being snapped. So Tony Stark’s funeral is the first time they’re ever hanging out together without some big CGI battle going on. Whatever relationship they have now was developed offscreen after Endgame.I think that’s why the Gandalf banter didn’t feel earned. They should have leaned more into the idea that these guys barely know each other despite both having a long history with Cap. Instead this episode treats them as longstanding frenemies, even though this is the first significant screentime they’ve ever shared.
In fairness, they do quickly build a ‘frenemy’ relationship in Civil War, it’s possible they interacted offscreen in Wakanda, and potentially that Steve & co would occasionally visit Wakanda between Civil War and Infinity War. Sam is unsure about flying through Wakanda’s hologram, but it’s possible they would enter through another means, I’m sure they needed to refuel their quinjet and restock at points in the two years they’re fugitives.
Just because we didn’t see it happen doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. I’m pretty sure they infer plenty they have been hanging out doing something during times we haven’t seen them.
My point is more that the plot details of the MCU effectively make it impossible that they spent any time together prior to Tony Stark’s funeral. Lots of other character pairings make room for offscreen adventures (for example, Sam and Wanda spent years together on the active Avengers roster between movies, even though we don’t see them talk much), but this particular pairing can only be a few months old because they were brainwashed/frozen/in different countries/turned to dust between films.
Sam was on the run with Cap for years. Wakanda couldn’t have been one of the places they went during that time?
Yeah, also, the first episode kind of introduces the idea that Sam is trying to reach out to Bucky, but gets rebutted. But then in this episode Bucky decides to find Sam and shows up out of nowhere, and is treated like it’s something he always does and Sam is annoyed by.
Yeah, this is the part of the thread I was looking for. I’d flip the grades of eps 1 & 2. Same director I guess, but it didn’t seem like it. Something was off in the show’s timing. Bucky following Sam nonchalantly into the plane and on his mission felt a little too loose for a “special op” or whatever Sam is tasked with. There could be some good comedy there with other side-specialists and fellow Mission: Impossible guys all like: “Who’s this guy tagging along with Sam?” with a response of: “Dude don’t ask about that guy. Don’t even make eye contact with that guy. If he wants a seat on the plane. Give him a seat on the plane. If he wants peanuts and a Sprite, get him peanuts and a Sprite. Land the plane if you have to – to get him peanuts and a Sprite.”This ep got off to an okay start with the John Walker intro. But then it felt rushed. The Truck action scene seemed perfunctory. Of course, let’s all climb on top of the trucks – that’s what the canon of action movies expect us to do. The ep seemed suddenly floundering – searching for a way to go. Sam’s pissed about his finances. Bucky’s pissed at Sam, himself, and the world. And neither guy seems all that into solving the mystery of The Flag Smashers. The cop scene worked. The scene with Carl Lumbly worked. Then they both shrug – let’s go talk to Zemo. Why talk to Zemo? Idk, he knows Hydra stuff. Maybe he knows some stuff about this other stuff. I’ll do a re-watch, but for me:Episode 1 was an AEpisode 2 was a B-
As for what is funny, the champion remains from the funniest moment of the trailers.
“That little girl kicked your ass!”
Nothing beats “A sorcerer is just a wizard without a hat.”
From the same scene, Bucky having read the Hobbit when it came out is a hilarious sort-of callback to Steve getting Nick Fury’s Wizard of Oz reference in Avengers.
I love how that line is meaningless and yet makes perfect sense at the same time.
It’s even funnier because now we know she kicked Sam’s ass too.
I was SO please they brought in Isaiah. They went in exactly the direction I had hoped!
The banter is great, I think the exploration of the sociological ramifications of the blip is actually far more interesting. You have five years where existing in-group and out-group social dynamics were deeply disrupted and likely radically changed, both on a geopolitical nation state level, but also in a more localized fashion everywhere. Then everyone else comes back and has no sense of this change in dynamics (much less the time that passed) and probably expects everything to go back to the way it was. Inevitably, you will have large swathes of people that have trouble adjusting to that on various levels, whether they’re opposed to returning to the way it was or opposed to the way it is, the conflict is there waiting to be explored. They’ve just touched on the idea of the Flag Smashers being one of the groups that doesn’t want to return the way it was, I hope they dig deeper on some of these ideas.
I’d go even further and say the banter only works as well as it does because the show is actually tackling some pretty serious issues (I’m sure I’ll get flamed for saying that though).Too much “banter” for its own sake comes off as forced. But when it exists to balance out or as a counterpoint to the darker under/over-tones of the series, it reads as much more natural.
I think I said this on the last review, but I can’t help but notice a (likely unintentional) parallel between the reactions to the Blip and the reactions to the pandemic. We’ve all been through this global, traumatic event that’s necessitated big changes in the way we do things, and it’s caused a lot of people to ask, “Should we go back to how things were? Were they so great? Maybe I like working from home and maybe we should wear masks in public, especially during cold and flu season.” Obviously the Flag Smashers are set up as the antagonists here, but I think the show is doing an alright job at saying their concerns have some validity.
Yeah. I pretty much told my wife that we were the bad guys in this show, and I really, really hope the writing serves that. Like I want to see Sam and Bucky agree with them and agree to help them, and for that to be the conflict between them and ersatz captain america. I also want to see Bucky learn that he’s just been conflating his friend’s son with some rando he shot. The rub is that he’s not sure, and the guilt of that is what’s eating at him.
The Bucky thing isn’t gonna work out for you; he saw a photo of the son after having his nightmare, & they match.
For some folks, “the way things were” is just stuff like being able to hug your mother again without worrying that you’ll pass along a deadly infection to her, & I feel like a lot of the folks saying things like “we should never go back to normal” are not realizing that (or worse, ignoring it).
I get it but I don’t want the “Never normal again” people to stop saying it. Because momentum is just too easy to stop. If you’re a “hug my mom” person and you’re upset that there are rabble rousers calling to upend normal, realize that they aren’t talking about you and let them keep rabble rousing.
If they weren’t saying it in direct replies to the “hug my mom” people, you’d be right.
That seems extremely specific and not remotely like “a lot of folks”.
A lot of the folks saying “never go back to normal.” It’s a large percentage of a subset, but not a large percentage of the entire population, because the subset isn’t that big to begin with.
I don’t see either as true. Though the internet can skew perception so maybe there are fewer people saying this than I think. But the overwhelming majority are talking about social justice causes. Not letting progress spurred on by the pandemic to backslide into complacent status quo. Nowhere am I seeing, “Screw your emotional need to connect with family, loser!” or whatever weird antagonism you’ve projected onto that group of people.
Oh, all of them are talking about social justice causes; that’s not the problem. My point is that they’re redirecting other conversations.
That makes more sense. But I remain unmoved on the necessity for this to continue. And that you shouldn’t take it personally. I’m sorry but progress is more important than congratulating you on reconnecting with loved ones. Is it not enough that the reconnection is now more feasible? Why do you care that it isn’t being celebrated? What’s the issue?
It hasn’t been me, & it hasn’t been just recent “celebratory” posts either. Over the whole past year, I’ve been seeing people reach out with posts about their fraying mental health as the pandemic has dragged on, & as the former Commander-in-Cheeto kept encouraging people to be stupid & drag it out further—people who support social justice causes adamantly & just needed a moment to express their concerns about something else as well—only to have folks who don’t know how to read the dang room stomp all over it.Like, I may not be a trained therapist, but I’m pretty sure the correct response to “Guys, I’m feeling really hopeless & trapped right now, & I just hope social interactions can go back to normal so I won’t be so alone anymore, ‘cause right now I almost want to die” is not “nothing should ever go back to normal!”
Obviously the Flag Smashers are set up as the antagonists here, but I think the show is doing an alright job at saying their concerns have some validity.I would bet folding money that by the end of the series the Flag Smashers aren’t going to turn out to be villainous.
The Flag Smashers thing is all very confused ideologically. In the first episodes they were described as a group who wanted “open borders and global unity” and I was like “hell yeah sign me up!” as a leftist/socialist who wants those things. But in this episode they seemed to be saying they simply wanted things to go back to how they were when half of humanity instantly disappeared (I refuse to call this “the Blip” they need to find a better term) and to view those who returned the way that nativists and xenophobes view immigrants. If this is the case in my opinion this group is basically entirely evil and not to be admired in any way.
I suppose yes there’s something to the idea that those who didn’t go away would include poor people who perhaps would be happy to have access to more resources and potentially power with less competition (however my guess is they still wouldn’t enjoy having half of their family members disappear) but saying essentially “I got mine jack” and trying to exclude people who were gone for five years (the majority of who are probably poor) for no fault of their own is abhorrentSo no I don’t think the Flag Smashers are admirable in any way or a meaningful commentary on the pandemic
I feel like if they follow the blip too closely it becomes a weird dystopian Leftovers/Lost-type show. I don’t think that’s bad, but I get the sense the MCU overall just…doesn’t want to do that. It’s too bad but at the same time the idea of the Blip and people coming back sounds like an awful bureaucratic nightmare. The paperwork alone!!!
That’s exactly what I want! I’m a diehard Leftovers fan, and every time they brush up against the topic, I get distracted and think about how much I want the MCU to dive headfirst into that story. I really appreciate that the story just went with “3.5 billion people were just GONE for half a decade, and now they’re back” but they’re dodging the nitpicky aspects of that story choice. What was life like in the immediate aftermath? How did the world adjust in the five years beyond what we see on screen? The stuff about dissatisfaction with political leaders picking up exactly where they’d left off and displaced persons camps just raise further questions about how the world is adjusting that I really, really want to see addressed in the near future*.Here’s the really big question I have right now: What does the world, at large, know about the resolution to The Blip? I get the sense that people know that something happened and Tony Stark, Captain America and Natasha Romanova died in the process of bringing people back – but I’m guessing that the details of how that happened have been conveniently omitted. Pay no attention to the 10-mile-wide smoking crater in upstate New York where the Avengers facility once was.(*At the very least, I would settle for a scene where the two titular characters comiserate not about being jilted by Steve – for once – but about how they both didn’t exist for a few years.)
What does the world, at large, know about the resolution to The Blip?Well Darcy, Agent Woo and Monica seemed to have a lot of information about the final battle (specifically that Wanda and Carol both knocked Thanos back on his heels), but they all have some level of government clearance.
Ooh, a commiseration scene would be amazing.
I’m a diehard Leftovers fan, and every time they brush up against the topic, I get distracted and think about how much I want the MCU to dive headfirst into that story. Same here. But I give up immediately, because such a story is just too big for its own good, it’s larger than what their entire fictional universe could ever accommodate. Think about it, The Leftovers was about the disappearance of a mere 2% of the world population, and it depicted an almost unrecognizable world. With 50% gone and back, Earth might well look like an alien planet now. Especially if we also factor in the fact that now the average person knows aliens exist, magic exists, for all intents and purposes gods exist (and they don’t look like any of the Earth’s gods), and half of the population has come back from the dead. The religious implications alone would make those from The Leftovers pale in comparison. There should be armed cult wars by now. The MCU is written locally in a segmented way by a plethora of different hands with only a generic oversight from above. They’re not equipped to properly tackle such a massive concept, which would be worth of a long sci-fi literary saga. And certainly not while they have other stories and purposes and styles to serve first, being a superhero universe with many, many other topics on its mind.
I would say do a spinoff comic from the MCU, but it just seems too crazy.Maybe call it “5 Years” or something.You could probably sideload the X-Men in it, let the comics do some heavy lifting.But again, crazy.
I agree. I don’t want the to tackle it. They simply couldn’t do it justice
Which begs the question of why they decided to do it in the first place. The entire thing was conjured during Endgame, it wasn’t previously set up. They could have easily arranged a different final scenario. So far, in all the follow-ups, the writers seem to treat it like something they’re forced to deal with rather than something they’re happy to mine for creative purposes.
Yeah, I’ve always assumed they were pretty up front about the first snap, less so about the second. They probably agreed to keep the time travel stuff to themselves.
I like the banter, but I have to say that Sam’s constant needling of Bucky is getting tiresome and needs to be dialed back a bit. I know it’s supposed to be funny, but it’s kind of like when they added Dr. Pulaski to ST:TNG to serve as a kind of Dr. McCoy-type thorn in Data’s side, but she just came off as mean. Yeah, you lost your best friend, Sam, but so did Bucky, and besides that he’s really working through some shit, so for the love of Mike can you just back the fuck off of him, just a bit?
See I basically don’t like Bucky and don’t really fully buy his rehabilitation from being the Winter Soldier and killing tons of people. That’s the main problem I have with this series. Yes I know the answer is supposed to be he did what he did because of brainwashing by Hydra that he’s been magically cured of through Wakandan techology or magic but I think it’s still unrealistic that he’d be given the of deal he was given, where he was able to avoid any jail time and just check in with a therapist once a week, no matter what kind of heroics he pulled off since then. I’m not pro mass incarceration but it seems to be he’s basically a mass murderer who’s brain has been scrambled countless time and I’m not sure I could ever trust that his brainwashing and hydra training was completely undone.
I know the series makes an effort to deal with this and shows that he’s truly haunted by the terrible things he’s done/been made to do but I think asking the viewer to see him as this relatively cuddly guy having banter with Sam is a bridge too far
It’s interesting on the AVClub to see every Marvel or Star Wars product painted through the lens of heartbreaking Twitter social activism.
Somebody needs to bring up the fact that Battlestar does not have his own shield. And my theory is that was Isiah Bradley’s code name during the Korean War. After all, all of the racists in the federal government would not allow a black man to publicly be “captain america”.
This was one of Dwayne McDuffie’s points of contention when he had a conversation with Mark Gruenwald about Hoskins (and the choice at the time to make him, ahem, “Bucky”).
Comic Legends: How Dwayne McDuffie Saved Captain America From Racism
I’m hoping that Sam brings it up, or somebody. Lemar is going to be shot at plenty, maybe even more than Walker, depending on who’s doing the shooting. (I would just die if some version of that line were actually used in the story)
With Power Broker involved, hmm.. I wonder if Walker and Hoskins are going to get shot up with the serum. Maybe they finally intercept a shipment of those meds that the Flag Smasher were stealing. Uh oh. Side effects…?
More needed from Mr. Bradley. And I presume that the young man at the door is the future “Patriot” (Young Avengers version). I’m just disappointed that Josiah (“Justice”) is not seen. Maybe he’s still alive. Also, Bradley’s wife, who became Muslim.
Maaaan, this is turning into the biggest: “Will they/won’t they” since Cheers.I just want to be the first to suggest the couple’s portmanteau…Fucky.
Sucky isn’t bad either…
Just call them Striking Vipers.
Bucky reading The Hobbit in 1937 is really impressive since it wasn’t published in the States until the following year.
When I watched the episode, John Walker was called “Captain America.”
I’m mixed here. I love Sam wanting to be the Falcon and not being guilty into being Cap. And I think Bucky becoming Cap would be far, far better for Bucky than for Sam. But I also see the problem with a string of white guys filling the shoes.But, man. I think Bucky could use it and I think Sam just wants the freedom to do what he wants.
Nice touch with Buck reminding Sam that he read The Hobbit when it first came out in 1932.
Actually, Bucky says, “I read “The Hobbit” in 1937 — when it first came out.”
(And it was first published in 1937, on September 21st.)
The Hobbit wasn’t printed in the US, however, until 1938. It’s not important, it’s just a weird bit of teen writing like Walker’s stats and record.
(Warning: extremely minor and insignificant pedantry ahead)
It’s entirely possible Bucky misremembered what year he read it in. Even from his own perspective, it would have been… let’s see, he fell into the river in 1945, and we can consider him brainwashed/not-actually-Bucky until he starts to remember who he is in 2014. Then in 2018 he snaps out of existence, and it’s been a few months since the Unsnap. So from his personal perspective, it’s been around 11 years since he read The Hobbit (assuming it was in 1938). It’s not at all surprising that someone might forget exactly which year they read a specific book in when it was 10-12 years ago, and given that that his brain being all scrambled for 70 years could cause memory issues, him misstating the date is entirely plausible.However from a narrative standpoint, since they’re not going to do into that level of detail, it would be better to have the year be accurate so that nerds like us don’t get up in arms about it. It’s pretty obvious that the writer Googled “Hobbit release date,” got 1937, and didn’t realize the differential publishing dates by country. (Of course, it’s also possible Bucky was living in the UK in 1937, though it seems unlikely.) They also could have picked a later year, like 1939 or 1940. Bucky didn’t have to read the book the year it came out.
It’s pretty obvious that the writer Googled “Hobbit release date,” got
1937, and didn’t realize the differential publishing dates by country.
Granted. TBH, my main reaction when I heard it was about tone. I didn’t recognize that it was probably the wrong year when I heard it, but the whole first UK/first US/second UK printing is a little known so when I saw the date it clicked.I don’t think the line would’ve been better with a different year—it’s still the classic hipster flex and it makes Bucky look like a dick in a way that most of their banter doesn’t.Bucky had at least a couple of years before WWII when he could’ve read the Hobbit, and 6 months since Endgame with a lot of free time, so he could’ve gotten a TV. I mostly just think it could’ve been mentioned in a way that either told us something about pre-war Bucky, or better jokes to be made about Sam’s assumptions. Unless it was a shoutout to AVClub First!ers of yore, it’s lazy writing.
Steve and Bucky are from one of the biggest cities in the “New World.” Maybe Bucky borrowed (was forced by Steve to read) a copy owned by a recently immigrated kid in school.
Very good review! Karli Morganthau was a pretty good twist… wasn’t expecting that and definitely curious to see where they go with it.
He also plays a military officer with complicated morals in The Good Lord Bird!
And he was a military officer in Overlord.
Against all odds I actually like John Walker. I appreciated that they didn’t try super hard to make him either very good or very bad hes just a guy with his own strengths and weaknesses for now at least. The scenes with him, Hoskins Bucky and Sam were brilliant.I loved the moment when Bucky instinctively caught the shield like he was teaming up with Cap again and the instant look of disgust and sadness when he realised it wasn’t.Only thing that annoyed me a little was I did think Buckys arm should have given him the edge in the fight with the other super soldiers.
I don’t know, even if the Wakandan arm is stronger than the Hydra one, Steve and Peter Parker could both handle themselves. Maybe if he caught them off guard while driving down a dark road.
Bucky is within a hair of matching Cap from what we saw in Winter Soldier and Civil War. Saying that, its a different Bucky in no kill mode. The scene was good just think they could have done a better job showcasing Bucky even if they had to take the L here.
Yeah whether its a conscious decision on the part of the director and choreographer or just us reading in to it, he does not seem to be fighting with the level of viciousness the Winter Soldier did. Even in life threatening situations he doesn’t seem willing to cut loose.
I know, remember when Cap and others are first fighting him in the Winter Soldier? He’s a fucking amazing fighter, able to give the original Captain America a run for his money. That’s now how he’s presented here. I thought that action scene was awesome, but I want a little more than fast running from our man here.
Exactly. But to be honest they underpowered and underused him since Civil war in the movies.In this, Maybe he was holding back because of his new no kill policy and I suppose there were 3 or 4. I think it was just the choreography of the scene. Which I liked overall but it could have showcased Bucky better and still have them take the L.
I don’t quite get how the non super powered Walker is apparently a better fighter than Bucky in this. Walker has a fancy shield, meanwhile Bucky has a technologically advanced fancy robot arm and is also a superpowered. But Bucky was apparently not so effective. Those people were trying to kill him and Sam.
Bucky was following Rule 2. I am pretty certain Walker doesn’t have a Rule 2.
They were trying to kill him and Sam and he couldn’t even break free from the restraint and pretty much didn’t fight back. Just kept taking blows and being tossed around. Then he couldn’t pull himself up from the bottom of a truck.
We haven’t seen Bucky use the Wakandan arm yet. My guess: it’s a freemium alloy.
I think my favorite thing about Sam and Bucky is that Sam represents being a modern-day vet and Bucky the old WWII vet. Steve couldn’t have been more fortunate to have them both around to help keep him balanced. Emotionally, anyway.
Did Disney buy AV Club or something? What is happening?
Sam’s fuckin with Bucky about wizards, he’s fuckin with him on recon, hell he fucked with a little boy about the use of “Black” in his name. Anthony Mackie really brought it with the banter, and I quite like how easily it elevates any and all scenes (Oh, how broody this show would be without all this). But my funniest moment was in the truck-Bucky: “Who are you?”Hoskins: I’m Battlestar.Bucky: “Battlestar?” (immediately had enough) “Stop the car!”He reacted as I would to these noobs, lol. John Walker’s Cap will take some getting used to, but it was such a smart choice to give him that humanity right at the beginning. It really colors the way I look at all his behavior. He seems like he genuinely wants to do good, but then there are these flashes of arrogance… almost performative? As if he’s overcompensating for the Captain America mantle.
“You know I got that all on video, right?”
Mackie carries the banter but Stan’s line readings made me laugh the most. “I’ve always wanted to do that.” “He’s a sorcerer.” He’s just so AFFRONTED.
I don’t know. That was a very haughty reaction from Bucky, seeing as he was sure to correct Sam that he was the “White Wolf” just 5 minutes earlier.
Yeah but didn’t Shuri give him that name instead? Battlestar is…(shudders) branding.
Yes I think it’ll be more interesting if Walker doesn’t take a heel turn, if he’s just the slightly assholish milquetoast government-approved Captain America (TM.) Now obviously the commercials say Sam gets the shield back—which BTW I don’t know how Sam or Walker could possibly usefully toss around as a weapon!—and there are only 2 ways that’s going to happen, it’ll be given to him or he’ll take it off of Walker. Or it’ll be brought from an alternate reality. Or Shuri will make him his own. Or Sam knew what would happen if he did give up the shield and will pull out the “real” shield for the climax. Or it’s a flash…back? Or Stark actually did make a bunch of them and Pepper finds them cleaning out the garage.
Could go either way, but my read is that he knows on some level that these two people can either legitimate him as the next Steve Rogers, or be a constant reminder that he’s not. He has something to prove, but on top of that, he’s been told for his entire life that he’s better than everyone else. He thinks he deserves to be Captain America and he is not going to be very patient with Sam threatening that by, you know, being Steve’s choice and existing and disapproving.And they made a great choice in giving him a Black girlfriend and a Black buddy. He’s the sort of man who will insist he doesn’t have a racist bone in his body, but the two Black people in his life are both supporters, sidekicks, and we haven’t seen any evidence thus far that he ever treats them as the heroes of their own stories instead of the supporting cast for his own. If he’s put in a position where he has to be the supporting character for Sam’s hero journey, I really don’t know what he’ll do, but the signs aren’t good so far.
He has something to prove, but on top of that, he’s been told for his entire life that he’s better than everyone else. He thinks he deserves to be Captain America and he is not going to be very patient with Sam threatening that by, you know, being Steve’s choice and existing and disapproving.He’s the HS Football star, a life of privilege, doing a massive press event at his alma mater….Everything about his life screams privilege as we cut back to the wetlands of LA and Wilson escaping poverty by joining the service. And they made a great choice in giving him a Black girlfriend and a Black buddy. He’s the sort of man who will insist he doesn’t have a racist bone in his body, but the two Black people in his life are both supporters, sidekicks, and we haven’t seen any evidence thus far that he ever treats them as the heroes of their own stories instead of the supporting cast for his own. I think this is unintentional as his character but intentional from the writing and signaling from the government. They paired him up with his HS buddy who’s black but gave him a black GF to help support the idea he’s a privileged asshole but not actually racist, maybe not anti-racist, but atleast not racist. He seems to be setting up a blinded by white privilege more than anything else.
I thought immediately ‘oh he’s a hydra agent’ then I realized that the whole going back to his HS for an interview and his overly decorated career (3 MoH…which hasn’t happened ever and historically even getting 2 has been mostly in times of war) was to set him up as ‘what if Captain America was from white middle America?’ He’s not a bad person on a fundamental level but he’s flawed in the way that privilege and power his entire life has left him apt to see himself as a ruler.There are some stills from production showing him injured, so I doubt Falcon will beat him into submission so much as he’ll get his ass handed to him and Falcon will take over, as he always should have.
I was wondering how other people are reacting to John Walker, because I have so much affection for the actor from when he played Dud on Lodge 49 (RIP) that I can’t tell if he is actually charming and likable as John or if its just my love of Dud carrying over.
I was wondering how other people are reacting to John Walker, because I have so much affection for the actor from when he played Dud on Lodge 49 (RIP) that I can’t tell if he is actually charming and likable as John or if its just my love of Dud carrying over.I first encountered him in Overlord, and it’s shocking how much he squints like his dad. If he ever says to Battlestar, “Like I always say it’s all in the reflexes” I might pass out.
I love Wyatt Russell and I’m not liking him in this role at all. I think it’s bad casting. I’m just not feeling his usual soulfulness
Personally, I feel like if someone had been recognized with three Medal of Honors, graduated West Point with honors, studied at MIT, etc. …. they would understandably be a little arrogant? How would it not all go to your head? That is what made Steve Rogers so special- he was a living superman, but he never lost his humility or his moral center. I’m not sure “not as good a person as Steve Rogers” = bad guy. (My husband and I were both like “Three Medals of Honors and living?!?! Yeah, he would be appointed as the the new Captain America.”)As the audience, we know that Sam should be Captain America. But Fake Cap just knows that Sam turned over possession of the shield, and the military chose him. I’m not even sure yet if it was a choice on Fake Captain’s part to be Fake Cap, or his orders. I’m just saying, I don’t see a bad guy yet, but a person with many serious accomplishments and a flaw. I don’t care if they turn him heel, but it would be more interesting to see him humbled that others know more about what it takes to be Captain America than he does. That Steve’s humility and moral center was as important, or possibly more important, than his muscle and brains.
The fact that New Cap checks all the boxes and is so well qualified signals to me that, to the government’s credit, they also want to do good, and get it right. (I know how naive that sounds, since we’re only 2 eps in, and it could all be a ruse, but) at least for now, it’s a refreshingly un-cynical take on the military to see that they couldn’t have picked a better guy.
So I’m thinking about when he sprung Bucky from arrest, and when asked, he basically gave a “who’s got two-thumbs and all the power? This-guy!” response. Heh.
The level of authority Walker has now has got to be a little intoxicating
(especially considering the status of Avengers in this universe). His
“Don’t get in my way” at the end was pretty ominous, but I’m
hoping it’s more about his human character flaws than any sort of heel turn
the story may have planned.
Yes, I re-watched the episode today, and very much think there was an intentional transition from the pep rally (clear imposter syndrome) to becoming seduced by the power and authority he now has. I’m still hoping it’s a flaw that is explored, and not his entire arc. I would also be sad if his credentials weren’t earned- you can’t throw out things like “three medals of honor” and then just make him evil. I can get behind him being cocky and egotistical, but not evil.
I’m starting to wonder about the Medals of Honor, though. I’m thinking of how Walker qualified his “jumping on top of grenades” reply with “Yeah. Four times. It’s a thing I do with my helmet — it’s a reinforced helmet. Long story.”
The grenade cover wasn’t at all the moment of selflessness that Bucky was remembering; it was stagecraft, like Steve Rogers punching ‘Hitler’ at every show. Both jumping on grenades, and Medals of Honor, come at great risk and are not likely to be repeated. That makes the Medals of Honor part of a pattern.
(oops-duplicate)
I definitely see this with Walker, and I’m hoping they don’t make him the corrupted villain after taking some drug, they’ve done that already with a few Marvel works. And I love how Sam finally gets some characterization. For the longest time he’s been stuck in sidekick mode
Glad they treated Walker right – giving him full character status and showing us the layers of his life. It would be easy to make him just an asshole, or incompetent, to make him easy to root against but they went out of their way to avoid that. It’s clear by the end that he’ll end up antagonist to our heroes for at least part of the season but he at least tried to do right by them to start.
I got an Enlisted notification for this?
John doesn’t seem like a bad guy right now, but I can see a sinister potentiality lurking under the surface. Kate Hudson’s half-brother can act pretty well.
What was the funniest moment for you?
“Do they call you ‘Black kid’?”I haven’t checked IMDB yet, but I’m curious how that role was listed.John steps into the role of Captain America with all the comfort and righteousness of someone who feels assured of his owning it.
I thought the episode did a brilliant job subtly suggesting his sense of entitlement and the potential for going off the rails when he doesn’t get his way. It starts when he peels off the name of a current high school athlete to see his own, with the clear indication that poor athlete’s label ends up in the trash can. And kudos to Cle Bennet for owning Battlestar’s sidekick corniness with such aplomb. Lamar has devoted his life to being John’s wingman — he’s been giving him the same thumb’s up and smile since high school. It’s weird when one thinks about it, but Bennet approaches the role so sincerely that the audience is lulled into accepting surface appearances.
It says ‘Neighborhood Kid’ in the credits. I imagine it would be weird if they were saying one thing in the script but they called the character ‘Black Kid’ instead.
Yes, it would be weird if they listed the role as “Black Kid”, but its clever that they can use their credits as meta commentary on the theme of the episode.
Heh, he’s totally going to grow up & become a superhero named Black Kid and join the Avengers in 15 years.
As long as it’s not Black Kid Rock.
If they went that route, we’d probably find out that the kid’s name is Elvin Holiday or something
And kudos to Cle Bennet for owning Battlestar’s sidekick corniness with such aplomb. Lamar has devoted his life to being John’s wingman — he’s been giving him the same thumb’s up and smile since high school.Ooh, I didn’t think about their relationship as much and I feel like this is spot on. Chilling.
Walker needs affirmation and adoration constantly. On a rewatch its obvious but initially one is sucked into the idea that he is this all-American ideal. But the details are telling a different story. Instead of thinking about the tremendous weight of the responsibility he is taking on, Walker is daydreaming about the glory of his high school football days and the approval of the crowd. He discards the name of the athlete who took his place and strokes his own name with affection.His girlfriend snuck into the locker room to see him, his best buddy followed him into the service — the subtext is that boundaries are not important, unconditional support is. And every time Walker expresses uncertainty or humility, it is immediately brushed aside and he is showered with compliments. That happens three times — with his girlfriend, buddy, and the GMA reporter. I came to believe that Walker was actually eliciting that praise with his humble stance. The only time it didn’t work was with Sam and Bucky, and we see the response that gets from Walker.
The responses he get are so adoring it’s almost depressing. I’m not sure if I agree with you that he was being humble to receive compliments — he doesn’t seem like an actual narcissist. But I feel like he’s surrounded by yes people just because of his enormous privilege (even as a high schooler) and now, star power. I don’t know if this will be part of it, but the fact that his girlfriend and best friend are both Black is…I don’t know. There are power dynamics in those relationships too, you know? But that might too nuanced and dark for this show. I also wondered if that was a way to showcase that he’s white but he’s not racist. As if people of color are excellent at choosing white friends…if the Trump admin taught me anything, it was to have higher standards for friends overall :(It’s also a bit depressing when you compare it to Steve’s reception after becoming Captain America in TFA. That’s clearly what it’s meant to evoke, but Peggy and Tommy Lee Jones’ character were never coddling or complimentary or reassuring. Even Bucky seemed to love him with more…honesty than Walker seems to get from his best friend and girlfriend. Steve’s best friends were not reassuring people who soothed his insecurities; they were part of the reason he succeeded. He was much more about teamwork than this guy.
You are probably right that Walker’s self effacement is neither calculating nor narcissistic. Success is hugely important to him so the fear of not living up to expectations is genuine. And Walker, whatever his flaws may be, doesn’t seem outwardly cruel or demeaning.the fact that his girlfriend and best friend are both Black is…I don’t know. There are power dynamics in those relationships too…I also wondered if that was a way to showcase that he’s white but he’s not racist.
I’d be fascinated to learn what the show runners were thinking. I believe they fully understand that there is much more to not being racist than having black friends. So I would suggest that giving Walker a black buddy and girlfriend is a meta commentary on way America — specifically through its entertainment — tries to paper over its institutionalized racism and centering of white males by surrounding them with POC and marginalized groups. The black best friend, the black father figure/authority figure and — most recently— the black girlfriend or spouse that support a white (usually) male lead has been a staple in movies and tv for decades, and is still the norm. Even the song that Walker runs out to — the militaristic anthem “Star Spangled Man” — has incorporated jazz rhythms and black dance moves, but its still all in service of elevating a white hero. The song is especially disturbing in light of the fact we know the original subject of that anthem wanted the Captain America mantle to go to Sam. I think the show is telling us John is what America wants to believe about itself — that its not racist, that the people are in their positions because they deserve to be. People like Sam and Isaiah, however, are seeing a starkly different country.
Also in terms of the in-show decision making, the government picked a new Cap that is white, but gave him a Black sidekick. “Well obviously we aren’t going to make a Black man Captain America, he has to be someone the whole nation can look up and aspire to! But we’re definitely not racist, so we gave him a Black sidekick to show that Black people can make a difference too! (as long as they don’t aspire to the highest positions and remain subordinate to powerful white men)“
Yes, that is exactly what the government was thinking. The marketing department must have loved the fact that Walker’s oldest friend and literal brother in arms just happened to be black. Can’t get a much better endorsement of being non racist than that.
This is a good point, and a great comment.
They never explicitly establish where Walker is from (in the books it’s the south) but the fact that they have what is clearly a black marching band at his Alma Mater says he’s likely in a semi-black belt community or an urban center in the south. He’s only in his 30s (Wyatt Russell is 34) so to be roughly 16 years out of HS and the whole marching band is black says something about him being the white star QB in a school that likely was significantly black, easily 30-50% if the marching band is in that style. They’re making some intentional choices but Walker is oblivious, walking white privilege on display.
Yeah I think the show is definitely making a point about Walker’s “blind spots” when it comes to his sense of entitlement and privilege compared to Sam and Isaiah. I was legitimately floored when they went there in showing there was a Black Cap, and Bucky knew about it. I honestly think it would’ve been better if Steve knew too, as good as he is he’s still human and Marvel never really explores the “man out of time” aspects of Steve or Bucky, there’s got to be SOME outdated things about their characters beyond Steve’s disbelief in gods and swearing
I agree that we can take for granted that, in general, the culture was more prejudiced in the past. I don’t think its a given that 2 young men growing up in ‘30s and ‘40s New York — a very crowded, diverse place— would be bigoted by modern standards, or that unconscious acceptance of institutionalized racism and white supremacy is an outdated phenomenon. One thing I appreciate is that the series is acknowledging the continuous undercurrent of racism in this society.I don’t know if we’ll see Chris Evans in the series, but I feel like Sam and Bucky have to tell Steve, right? And I think, wherever Steve has gone, he’d want to meet Isaiah, shake his hand and apologize on the behalf of the country. But that seems like such an obvious path for the story to take that the writers might avoid it.
“undercurrent” yeah.
They seem so desperate to walk the line with the Walker comic book character being a fascist and an ally often at the same time. He’s more white privilege unexamined than evil. It’s hard to read too far into his characterization at this point but I’m sure we’re going to get the ‘Walker snaps’ somewhere in episode 3 or 4 but I don’t think he’s such as straight forward heel as some people are reading into him.
100% agree. We are definitely getting a Walker snap — beyond what he does in the comics the show is setting him up for it. But there’s a lot of gray in the character and wouldn’t be surprised to see a Walker redemption arc, although maybe not in this particular story.
kudos to Cle BennetAh, I was sure to recognize him from somewhere, and now that I read the name, I remember he’s a Lost Girl and Flashpoint alum. Solid Canadian journeyman actor.
I remember he’s a Lost Girl and Flashpoint……and Heroes Reborn alum.IF I have to remember that that existed THEN SO DO YOU.
I think Walker’s sense of entitlement is shown brilliantly in his very first line when he meets Sam and Bucky IN THE MIDDLE OF A SUPERHUMAN FIREFIGHT ON A SPEEDING SEMI: “I’m John Walker. Captain America.” He’s already calling himself Cap without having proven a thing since taking up the mantle. Steve would never have introduced himself like that, he probably wouldn’t have said anything until the job was done, and then would’ve just said, “Hi. I’m Steve.”
Accurate. I did notice John and Lamar are both smiling at the beginning of the fight, like they are on a joy ride, getting off on the idea of being heroes. The one time I remember Steve being cocky in a fight was when he beat Spider-Man, and even then he gave Brooklyn the credit for the win.
I still don’t get who Sam is working for. He’s clearly got access to military equipment, personnel, and intelligence, and apparently gets assignments from someone, but he’s a free agent? Did I miss this in Episode 1?
Sam’s wings came from his time in USAF. Sam’s liaison, I guess you can call him, is 1st Lt. Joaquín Torres of the US Air Force. In the main comics continuity, he gets turned into a human bird hybrid and becomes the new Falcon after Sam becomes Captain America.
“In the main comics continuity, he gets turned into a human bird hybrid and becomes the new Falcon after Sam becomes Captain America.”Comics.
I had similar questions. To be fair, he was basically Captain America’s private detective between winter soldier and civil war. Maybe he functions similarly for War Machine or the Avengers.
He’s doing contract work for the Air Force, but isn’t fully re-enlisted.
Okay, he’s a military contractor, but for what company? He can’t have his own private military contracting company, with access to military resources and paid staff, if he can’t get a business loan for a shrimp boat!I know this isn’t the biggest deal, and of course superheroes usually exist a weird economic and political grey area (when there isn’t some satire involved like The Boys, The Tick, or The Incredibles) but given they are making a big deal about both his economic situation and his relationship to the government, it would be nice if someone spelled out what is actually going on.
I don’t think he has to be part of a contractor company. He can just be an individual private contractor, with the obvious special-case that he’s a former Avenger.
I guess the government is keen on tracking the Flag Smashers and maybe Torres and Sam are…on the case? Kind of hilarious that Bucky just decided to come along.
He’s both.
He’s a Private Military Contractor! The first one in fiction to actually be a good guy.
He’s a freelance agent employed by USAF for special missions.I watched episode 1 late in the week, and something comments got wrong last week is Sam’s alleged financial distress. He wasn’t asking a loan for himself. He said plainly he has government contracts that pay well. But his sister wants to take care of herself, Sam just convinced her to try and ask for a loan, hoping to offer his status as cosigner. Bank guy didn’t accept the deal because Sam’s contracts are relatively new, and a cosigner must provide better guarantee of steady income. He wasn’t being evil, he just stuck with the rules. And Sam isn’t broke. Neither is his sister, she just doesn’t want to keep the family business going when it’s losing money.
I get your argument but if Sam was outright in a good position financially as he would have been working for Shield for a decade and some back pay for saving the world, I just don’t get the ‘too proud’ argument making sense. I feel like this was inserted just as juxtaposition of Walker’s story but telling it in Ep1 vs Walker’s in Ep2 pushes them too far apart to get what they were going for. It’s clear this is a story about haves and have nots, white privilege and racism, but the bank loan story doesn’t really work unless you’re binge watching it but I assume about half of the viewers in 2021/22 will do that, it’s 6 episodes long. It will work better as a binge show, too, I suspect.
It’s clear this is a story about haves and have nots, white privilege and racismIs it, though? Or do we just want it to be, when it’s actually mostly an action romp with two likeable leads?The racism angle feels weak. As I noted, there was no inherent racism in the bank teller’s actions, we just got Sam’s sister throwaway comment, which Sam himself rejected. Sam is clearly well-aware of race, but the incident with the cop had no consequences or stakes whatsoever, it might just be virtue signaling on the part of the writers. Nowhere else his ethnicity is made significant. For instance, we didn’t get a government player explicitly saying they wanted a white Cap and could never accept a Black one – which, by the way, we all know is where this whole story is going, but so far it refused to acknowledge race as an obstacle for Sam, instead making the fact that he’s not the new Cap yet entirely his fault; and out of loyalty to a white guy, no less, which makes it pretty weird if the goal is to tackle race and privilege’s influence in the shaping of national symbols. (Sam and Rhodey idolizing a white savior is also problematic. That scene at the museum would feel super-weird if we didn’t know the characters already).And the politics of the Flag-Smashers are murky so far. We know they want a united world. That’s great, but you can go a lot of different ways about it, including some right-wing dystopian corporate planetary control. Nothing about “one world, one people” tells us exactly what they believe in where class and wealth are concerned (I guess “one people” could be taken as the eradication of racial divisions, but it could also just speak about nationalities). The Robin Hood comment is so far unsubstantiated. Do they steal medicines to give them to those who can’t afford them? If so, what does this have to do with the abolition of borders? In which way, according to their belief, a central planetary government guarantees less inequality? (And was there anything like that during the Blip? If there was, it’s new information for all of us, and the way such a system could be suddenly reverted in a matter of months is also mysterious.) If the show was serious-minded about all of this, it would have switched one of the light banter scenes with a scene showing us the Flag-Smashers doing something that would concretely define their ideals. I imagine they still want us to second-guess the heroes’ decisions at this stage, but the result is that, one third of the way in, we can’t be sure whether there will actually be a meaningful political theme in the show or not. And the more they wait, the less room they’ll have to expand on that.
Oh no, it’s totally about that but if you live an ephemeral existence where marvel movies aren’t meant to be examined you can totally read it as a fun buddy cop show. It’s both, you just don’t have to care about the second layer if you’re in a position to not have to.It’s like watching Wandavision and taking away how much fun Kathryn Hahn is while ignoring the complex issues surrounding grief that caused her to create this world. I wholly agree the flag smashers are just in such a bad position because if you’re going to argue about haves and have nots, the flag smashers are problematic because they come across as either utopianists or anarchists. The fact that the refugee program setup by the world’s governments seems to be a genuine relief agency isn’t really helping them tell the story. If we suddenly get a change up in Ep.4 or 5, showing that the world’s corporations are driving this and it’s about the return to the way it was with capitalism, then we’ll get a clearer picture. Right now, I suspect we’ll get a clearer sympathetic view from them with all of them dying or going into hiding with the aid of Falcon.PS: The government picked Walker explicitly due to his race and history, Wilson knew he could have taken the shield and insisted but he would have been on a tight leash, a single screw up and they would have retired him.
This was excellent. I like that they aren’t making new Cap an outright “bad” guy–I kind of like him, even though he has obvious flaws and isn’t Steve or Sam or Bucky. It’s a good choice not to make him a racist or bad in any particular way.
John Walker is earnest, he believes he’s qualified, he’s trying to do his best.
But we’ve already seen him making uncomfortable presumptions about what he should be entitled to, and it wasn’t just the shield, the name, or the suit. (As another poster pointed out, that locker belongs to some other athlete now but he didn’t respect that.) He thinks he is also entitled to the support of the people who stood by Steve Rogers, despite having no relationship with them.
Sam walks away after saying, “It’s always that last line” but I heard it as Maya Angelou’s “When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.”
He’s an athlete visiting his old school–why wouldn’t he go to his old locker? I didn’t read it as him believing he’s “entitled” to Cap’s friends’ support; rather, he was hoping for it and didn’t phrase his hope in the most tactful way. I’d say pulling that Angelou line is a stretch, because “who [he is]” could easily be “someone trying to do good but not being tactful”, rather than anything more negative as you’re interpreting it.
He pulled the label off. Where do you think that label ended up?
I feel like you’re stretching when you’re saying he’s just not tactful. I feel like he has no people skills, somehow. The fact that he only found Sam and Bucky from tracking their tech is…not a way to get people to like you. Why would he think they would be totally comfortable with him after all that? I think he expects a level of trust that is…ridiculous.I was really shocked he didn’t even buy them a beer and, you know, ask about them? I mean, I know he got Bucky out of jail, but seriously…all he had to do was take off his damn mask and meet them as a fellow human.
I think what we’re going to learn about this guy is not only does he have no life he can relate to outside of being a soldier, he has no life outside of being a special class of soldier. He went to West Point, he’s been a golden boy his whole career, he meets with Senators and Generals even before he was given (and I think its an important distinction that he was given) shield and mantle. He probably doesn’t seem to know how to relate to people outside of “you’re part of my mission team now because the powers on high said so” and he really can’t figure out why it isn’t working on two people he just perceives as fellow soldiers.
Going back to the first Captain America movie, Captain America John Walker is exactly who we would have gotten, if Col. Phillips had chosen Hodges for the program instead of Erskine choosing Rogers.He’s fast, he’s strong, but in his heart, he doesn’t have respect for his power or compassion. Depending on how his character development swings, we might even see Captain America the bully.From a thematic standpoint in the show, John Walker represents the White America that believes itself to be colorblind; “I don’t see color.” John Walker has a black best friend and a black girlfriend. John Walker is the man that will say that racism is wrong but disapprove of affirmative action. And this willful ignorance, that isn’t exactly malicious, but still is counterproductive – it informs his perspectives on everything else, including his approach to Sam.
It’s interesting that Steve Rogers was chosen because they needed to find someone who was pure and good and humble enough that he could handle being given the super soldier serum and not turn into Homelander essentially. John Walker wasn’t given the super soldier serum and afaik there’s no plan to give it to him. So basically all he’s being given are the name, the backing of the US government and the vibranium shield. And people are questioning whether his character is good enough to handle that without going bad. Sounds like if the serum enters the picture for him things could get really bad
Well it’s hard not to agree with a Maya Angelou quote.
It seems (to me, at least) that the show is trying to say not that John is unworthy of being Captain America, but that Sam is the person most worthy to succeed Steve.
Casting Wyatt Russell is really paying dividends from the start. He’s skilled enough to draw out the flaws and shortcomings of Walker’s thought process while still clearly relaying the character’s good intentions.
I like the action scenes well enough, but the best parts of the show for me are definitely just the bits where Sam and Bucky are talking, whether it’s Sam busting Bucky’s chops, or the more serious scenes between the two.That said, give me Zemo! All we got was a little shot of him at the end. I want more!
I got a simple kick seeing Sam and Bucky hoofing it down the road together after the fight.
So how’s his sister and all the financial issues going? Is the boat ok? Do we not care this week?
The part where he has the exchange with the kid about “Black Falcon” was the funniest part to me, as well as the perfect juxtaposition between Sam and John.
Everybody knows Sam (even racist cops), and because of that they can approach him and interact with him like anyone from the block.
Meanwhile, America is being told to accept John with a huge lavish ceremony, TV interviews, and a marching band. They have to make a big commotion out of him because as much of a nice guy that he may be, nobody knows him and he’s not an Avenger. He has to practice talking to people.
Sam doesn’t, and having fun with the kid is the real sign of who needs to wear the shield.
I just finished season one of “The Boys”, and going from Homelander to this new Cap, there’s a cringe factor to get past.
It’s amazing how ridiculous he looks in that helmet!
It’s definitely an intentional costuming choice, too.I love it.
When we first saw him I thought he was that guy that usually plays Russian or EasternEuropean in things. He was in Dollhouse and Community and a bunch of other shows.
That’s Kurt Russell and Goldie Hawn’s kid!
I am not referring to Wyatt Russell, I’ve seen all of Lodge 49 and Overlord I’m aware of him and his parents, even listened to an interview with him. Who this actually is.I am referring to a different actor, who I thought it might be.
I honestly feel a little bad for him, without the helmet he’s a handsome man and I know that the suit was designed around a Evans’ face but…oof. I imagine him signing the contracts, knowing he’s getting a ton of speaking parts in a huge marvel series, and then them showing the costume and him just having to eat it because he knows this is what they want.
I like that they’re not making Walker out as a bad guy. Comic Walker is an asshole but he’s not a bad guy, his heart’s in the right place, and at the end of the day he’s a hero. I hope that they don’t have MCU Walker do a heel turn into some sort of secret villain.
So something happened in this episode that I’ve always wondered about in comics.That Flag Smasher that sacrificed himself was a super shoulder that was gunned down. So…why aren’t more “super” people killed with guns? You constantly see the military, police, whoever as being zero threat to anyone that has superpowers when really, a bullet should still take out like almost all of them. I’ve always chalked it up to “don’t think about it too hard. enjoy it” but is there an actual comic canon rationalization?
I think what it is is that they just…move out of the way (dat agility). Or block it with something (shields, body armor, et cet).I mean, Steve got shot dead in the comics at one point; it’s not unprecedented.
Look dude, just because Good Morning America (possibly suggested by the military’s PR department) wanted to do an interview at the guy’s high school doesn’t mean he’s some peaked-in-high-school jock. I don’t want to say you’re projecting but well…
(also regarding his major, it must be something with math seeing how he’s able to figure out the geometry on all those shield throws)
Who said I said he peaked in high school? Looks like he’s still peaking! It’s up and up for this guy!
Really appreciating that both episodes so far have delivered not just good Falcon-based action scenes, but different ones; they weren’t both aerial fights.Quick aside to Sam, though: Never say “never”; empathy & sympathy are real things that exist, & Bucky has them….though I’m pretty sure Walker doesn’t have them after that gag he pulled with the police siren.
I appreciate the show trying to tackle social issues, which is definitely in line with the Marvel brand, but using Sam as its tool to do that is a little silly. The dude very publicly helped save all of reality, literally, from Thanos and he gets denied a small business loan? He gets hassled by cops? They want to explore the post-blip world, but a person who helped stop Thanos and bring back all the people who disappeared would be one of the most famous and beloved people of all time with no comparable analogue in the real world. The closest would be Jordan in the first Bulls threepeat in terms of universal love and recognition and even that wouldn’t come close. I like the show, and those scenes work well within the show, but placed in the context of the larger MCU it just seems kind of silly. We can’t give my man a generous pension for saving reality?
Bring it back? When did this type of humor leave the MCU?
When he interacts with Sam and Bucky, I’m getting a vibe from John Walker that I’d describe as “stepdad trying way too hard to be friends to the kids not because he likes them, but for mom’s sake.” Especially in the police station.
Cap was a bit of a father figure to them both, you know?
That is an extremely good point. Not gonna complain if my metaphor was more on-the-nose than I’d intended.
Not to Sam, he wasn’t. If anything, Sam initially reached out to Steve in his role as a counselor for vets trying to adjust to civilian life. Then he got back into it when Cap & Black Widow needed help with a true threat.
Also, the “stay out of my way” line was very “Stepdad trying to be the cool who also has a really short fuse, especially when he drinks.”
Absolutely. I wasn’t sure how to articulate that vibe, but that’s kind of where I was going with the ‘not because he likes them but for mom’s sake’ bit in my version of the metaphor. But your phrasing nails it much better.
He’s walking a line, but there’s definitely a vibe of “I’m Cap, so I’m entitled to his friends!” that wouldn’t make me inclined to hang out with him either.
I’m hoping they keep Walker in that role and not make him a flat-out villain. Like, just make him an insecure try-hard who rubs everyone the wrong way and does everything with an ignorant confidence, but means well. Just like America!
I suspect/hope he’s gonna straddle that hero/villain line, especially since with the arrival of the Disney+ shows that should have enough narrative space to add nuance to an anti-hero sort of character.
I like that they didn’t make Walker straight up villainous, just someone who had a misunderstanding of what Steve stood for. (Someone who had a lot of “Guts”)I’m sure that like in the comics he (and “Battlestar”) will also eventually get super soldier powers from the Power Broker organization. (And that’s when things will REALLY start to go wrong)
While maybe unnecessary and perhaps a little redundant, you gotta admit, ‘Black Falcon’ sounds way cooler than just ‘Falcon’. Either way, that was a cute scene.The soulgazing scene definitely the funniest, imo.It’s interesting to see that during the Flagsmasher chase action sequence, Bucky definitely seemed, for lack of a better word, ‘less’ intimidating and effective in their resolve to stop them compared to when he was the Winter Soldier but I get it. James is emotionally conflicted and weighed down by a sense of a lack of purpose or place in the world when measured next to the single-minded, relentless killing machine while under Hydra’s control.It’s a nice detail that also serves to balances his skills with Sam and one of the reasons why they work so well together and need each other.
“On a totally unrelated note, so funny how the new Cap turned out to be a white guy—so lucky how that just worked out!”Isn’t this the entire point we’re SUPPOSED to notice?
I’m not sure if anyone else mentioned this, but I think it’s interesting that after Bucky gets arrested for missing his therapy date, Sam doesn’t just go off on his own business; he follows Bucky to whatever facility he’s been taken to and waits for him to get released. Even though they irritate each other, Sam still wants to make sure Bucky’s okay.
When you weigh in the psychological ramifications of the blip and the time passed between them, I have to wonder if people serving a prison sentence, except for maybe lifers without parole, who had disappeared, were released or had 5 years taken off their sentence when they came back.Or people who were on death row, were they pardoned since they were technically dead?
Honestly…before the pandemic I would’ve been hopeful that what you said came true. Now I feel too cynical.
Thinking about the Blip too hard really makes the whole thing unravel. What we’ve seen on screen dwells on the half of humanity that was uncreated and then recreated (because that’s where the drama is), but Thanos didn’t just wipe out half of all humanity, he wiped out half of all life in the universe. That means half the dogs and cats and duck-billed platypuses, yes, but also half the grass and trees and bacteria. Selected at random! Life on this planet would be profoundly different in ways that make global climate change look like a rounding error. There is no way we would have been able to keep an industrialized infrastructure going under those conditions, even with Stark and Wakandan and SHIELD tech trying to fill the gap. Once I’ve had to swallow all that, it’s honestly hard to have much fan-logic left to puzzle out ninth-order effects like parole hearings.The show seems to be asking us to consider the Blipped people like immigrants or refugees, and in this episode you hear the same kinds of complaints from the Flag-Smashers that you hear about those groups: the government is helping them instead of us, and it needs to be stopped. As awful as the Blip was, it made some people feel like winners, maybe for the first time — and that is a feeling they are willing to do terrible deeds to hold onto.
Since the powerstones are essentially McGuffins that grant wishes, I just assumed Thanos wished away half of all ‘intelligent’ life in the universe as his whole point was to eliminate overpopulation, pollution and dwindling resources so that the planets’ ecosystems could recover and thrive.
That makes even less sense though. (Though I don’t expect a loony asshole like Thanos to analyze his goal.)
Intelligence isn’t an absolute. There are different levels, and different kinds.
I’m pretty sure half the birds and insects were gone as well. After the un-snap, Scott Lang is drawn to the patio area and seems to be noting the increase in activity. We see and hear that even before Clint Barton gets the phone call.
You’d think, but 1) the people who made the movie confirmed it was half of all life including animals and such, and 2) Thanos’ nickname (in the comics at least) isn’t ‘The Reasonable Titan.’
That is the 2 things that suck about Marvel. Magic and the fact no one stays dead. Why didn’t Thanos just double the size and renewal resources of the universe, instead of halfing all living things. It makes zero sense.
I thought about that for a sec but then realized there are all kinds of catastrophic implications by simply doubling everything that throws the physics of the universe for a deep curve when you consider the balance of gravitational forces, black holes and all the rogues asteroids and planets drifting through the cosmos.On a more local scale, simply adding more resources won’t solve the problem of overpopulation, hunger, pollution and spent resources. While it may delay the inevitable in the short term, it would also accelerate it since there would be no lesson to be learned, thus no motivation to adapt and adopt new ways of existence.
It is the same thing. If you halve every living thing, the people and animals left are still burning through the same finite resources, it will just take them roughly double the time to do. Same as if you double the size and resource of the current universe and kept the number of living things the same.
I’m with you – in one of his speeches he specifically mentioned resources running out, meaning he’s cognizant of the need for food. I don’t think half of cows and wheat disappeared in the blip.
is it ALL life that was supposed to be blipped? My understanding was it was all sentient life. I know seeing the birds flying around after Hulk’s snap sort of implies different…but like you’ve said, it makes zero sense if it was ALL life.
This is a side topic, but I keep thinking about entire galaxies where half of all life disappeared and then came back later, where no one has the faintest idea what a Thanos is or what the hell happened.
Well said
Clearly he didn’t wipe out half of all life including plants because the plants in the background of the scenes that had them with the snap taking place were completely unaffected. He might have wanted to wipe out half of all intelligent life, or dominant species, or any other number of clauses since we don’t actually get to hear what his wish was.
There are so many crazy implications to the blip that you can really mess with your own mind–as Ajax says, it’s just TOO much to consider all of the issues, starting with the world’s population suddenly doubling just as the world had figured out how to move on with 1/2 the people….
Son, escaping from a prison while serving a felony sentence is a federal o-ffense carrying up to an additional five years. I don’t care that you said you didn’t do it, everyone in here says they didn’t do it and we have the records that you did not answer to roll call for five years. You are going to max-ee-mum security and we are gonna put you in The Box until you tell us how you es-caped.
Philosophically, I think there’s a basis to argue that being Blipped is not the same as being dead. Death suggests that one’s body no longer functions in some critical way; if you just suddenly wink out of existence, without any obvious cause (99% of Earth and 100% of some other intelligent planets wouldn’t know what a Thanos is or why any of this is going on), that’s not exactly the same.But, I thought at some point the US Government declared them all legally dead. That seems like something it can’t suddenly call take-backsies on. Which might mean that EVERY criminal that came back is now free, death row or not. If someone dies 8 years into a 10-year sentence, pretty sure they don’t just hold the body for 2 years or make a next-of-kin serve the rest of the time, it’s just written off.
So what do we figure the odds are that John eventually cracks under the pressure of being Captain America and getting his ass kicked one too many times by the Flag Smashers and takes whatever made the FS super soldiers? Sam and Bucky work together to stop him, Sam takes the shield from him and says something about him not deserving it, before deciding that he needs to be Captain America to show the world that a black man has just as much as right to wear the flag and be that symbol.For the record, not criticizing, just making a prediction. I’m enjoying the show and looking forward to seeing where it goes.
“Black Falcon”… was that a “Key & Peele” reference??
Birdman forever denied us the further adventures of Super Volt and White Fish.
Walker cheekily getting Sam and Bucky’s attention with a police siren, completely oblivious to how triggering that sound might be for them, was a perfect encapsulation of his painfully oblivious worldview. I suppose he could have known exactly how triggering it would be and did it on purpose, but, as the review notes, the writers did a really admirable job of making Walker seem like an well-intended asshole rather than an out-and-out villain. Anyhow, it was a great “small” moment from a show that, so far, has a lot more subtlety and nuance than I expected from the promotional campaign.
so funny how the new Cap turned out to be a white guyBut hey, he has a Black girlfriend and a Black best friend/sidekick! (Black help? I’m sure John would have voted for Obama a third time if he could).
Both of whom we were introduced to in quick order. I’m wondering if that’s supposed to be a commentary in-universe, or if it’s a laughable attempt at mitigating the Aryan brotherhood feel of his persona, which kind of reminds us that it’s basically the same feel Steve Rogers could also project (seeing Sam so taken with this white savior figure is kind of upsetting at times).
John Walker already has a black male sidekick, but he wants another one!? What an entitled prick!!!!
I love it when characters in something I read or watch are as geeky as their audience. I think Sam watched the Lord of the Rings AND The Hobbit, Bucky READ The Hobbit back in ‘37, and Walker and Hoskins are geeks for Rogers and Wilson. Too their credit, they WANT to mend fences and reach out to Sam and Bucky for the common goal of stopping the strangely super-soldiery Flag Smashers. But they’re not the first in-universe geeks for an established hero; that kid in the Iron Man mask at the Stark Expo, who stood up to a renegade Hammer drone until Tony blew it up? That’s Peter Parker. And of course, Phil Coulson’s another Cap fanboy.I’d have been disappointed of Lemar Hoskins and Power Broker were not included if John Walker got into the MCU, but maybe that’s just because I know more about less famous comic book minutiae than normal people, or “the uninitiated” as I sometime call them.
I have a few issues but I still love the show. The first is that, if you take half the world’s population, assuming that geopolitical lines are ignored, you’re still statistically going to end up with roughly half of the population in larger countries (over-100M). So, while the US may have dropped below 150-170M it’s statistically going to be closer to a median of that than not. China and India are both going to have around 500-600M people each. It wasn’t like they weren’t able to go about functioning or that some ‘unified government’ would realistically emerge unless it’s purely Watchmen reasoning of a greater threat, in which case returning those people wouldn’t necessarily upend that. It seems to be dipping it’s toes into Malthusian arguments about how without half the world’s population things were better because there was just less competition and therefore better cohesion, less resource fights because for 5 years people didn’t have to scramble as hard. But again, that’s not realistic to how a society would remain. But this episode was first so clearly setting up Walker as a secret Hydra/Zemo agent, then it made great efforts to setup Walker as just a kind of honest meritocracy asshole? Sam Wilson doesn’t really *deserve* to be Captain America over Walker on paper, we’ve seen his relationship, we like him more as a person, but if you were a set of bureaucrats and had to compare Wilson v. Walker, Walker is a perfectly acceptable choice and one that makes a Trump-adjacent world easier to navigate. I’m going over-under that Wilson becomes Cap (as is so clearly going to happen from the toy line stuff) by episode 5, giving him just enough time to run it through for episode 6 and setup the future with Falcon as Captain America. I’m guessing Walker lives though and Wilson is forced into a super serum situation because that seems to be where this is all going.
Hopefully they don’t turn Wyatt Russell heel, they already turned his dad Heel plus Wyatt’s such a likeable fella.
I will hold my hands up here – when that police car scene happened, I really didn’t get it at first. It seemed to unfold with the white guy talking the police out of arresting the black guy, and then the police being these suddenly reasonable people. A sort of white saviour scenario.
Then my mate slowly explained… you know, very slowly, so I finally understood… The cops were ready to come down hard on Sam until they realised he was a celebrity/a high value individual. They were totally ready to arrest him before they realised the shit they might get into for doing so. With that bit of reframing, they didn’t seem so reasonable.
Hi guys. Its me, Andrew Richardson from Facebook. AKA the worst person. So, this is the latest individualistic schlock you are pushing like Vince McMahon with an ethnic muscle head? Do you think AOC and Kate Bush think Marvel shlock has value? Is individualism just the way we have to live?
I like how WandaVision and Falcon and WS are not glossing over with the aftermath of the Blip. It would be frustrating as a viewer that they wouldn’t acknowledge that in the two shows. I do love the banter between Sam and Buck. Buck has that drab, dry sense of humor which seems to be very cynical to me. While Sam has a more cocky, smart-alecky to his jokes. These two have great chemistry together and I’m glad this show exists because of it.One thing I have noticed from the trailers is that Sam is seen using the shield and tossing it around. I thought that scene would be in the beginning of the series…just him testing how to use it. So from that trailer, it looks like Sam gets the shield back. Spoiler!!
God, I hate the term “The Blip” so fucking much. Whoever it was at Marvel or Disney that decided to make that the official term should be publicly flogged. Especially since fans had already been using “The Snap” during the year between Infinity War and Endgame, and that’s a much better term.
I agree completely
was that old Cap handing that medal of honor to john walker in the brief clip?
What was the funniest moment for you?When that new Cap’s “sidekick” called himself Battlestar, Bucky just NOPED his way off the Jeep and walked away, wanting nothing to do with wannabe superheroes.I couldn’t stop laughing for a good long minute, such incredible writings and actings.
“If he had taken the shield and done what he’d wanted, he would not be
treated with grace or kindness, not by the U.S. government and perhaps
not even the American people.”I disagree with this a bit. His status as an Avenger does afford him better treatment. It’s plainly evident when the cop realizes who Sam is. It didn’t help him last week with the bank, but I imagine that if he was currently Captain America that might have gone differently. It’s still sobering to see that he needs that status as a superhero to get that grace and kindness, though.
Loved this episode. Your reminder that Steve Rogers was, canonically speaking, the Pat Boone of the 616. 😀
so who are the governor and senators from Georgia in the 2023 MCU? I suspect they are trying to spin Walker’s ‘Georgia grown’ bonafides into something lucrative. Watch out for secret Hydra spies bearing gifts. And they better not have passed that same voting suppression law there. (“If you were blipped in the past 5 years, you cannot vote!”)
I found the fetishization of the “legacy” of the shield, in the John Walker intro, to be creepy and weird. They do it in the comics too, and that’s clearly where they’re bringing some of this material from. But in the comics they’ve got 50+ years of storytelling since Cap’s return in Avengers #4 (1963), on top of some years of publishing the character during WW2 and I think during the 50s (although retconned to be a different guy). It makes some sense in the comics for there to be some “legacy” to the shield. But in the MCU, the shield was absent, along with its wielder, for the ~75 years after the greatest generation’s big war. There’s no way it carries the same weight of symbology & history, as it does in the comics. It seems weird to present it that way.Something else that strikes me as weird – picking up on something @Tulipd277 pointed out in a comment:(My husband and I were both like “Three Medals of Honors and living?!?! Yeah, he would be appointed as the the new Captain America.”)I’m gonna have a skepticism issue if the John Walker character is presented as TOO jingoist / gung-ho / unreflective / crazy. As presented, this guy is a professional soldier in the US army. The professional part of that means something. Most of us aren’t soldiers: but think for example of GI Jane. In that movie, all the candidates for the training program were experienced officers who earned a spot. Demi was an analyst, I think; her boyfriend did staff work. Walker has earned promotions. As an officer in the modern army, he would have had to take classes in leadership and in psychology; if he went to West Point, he would have had to write history papers. Given all the medals & commendations, this is a guy who has been in serious situations and not lost his head.I also think, some of the conversation in these comments about his “privileged” background, and how he doesn’t see other people as being the lead author of their own stories – I’m not sure that flies. This character would have had a ton of training in team-building and leadership and all that stuff. He would have had peers in his squads etc. He would have been subjected to the great leveling effect of being in a platoon, not to mention being on a football team.I dunno. I feel like there’s a hard limit to how crazy this guy can be. There’s going to need to be a lot of groundwork laid, to accept a circumstance where he’s “the problem”. He’s basically Audie Murphy.
I guess it’s not surprising that there’d be so many US military cultists in the comments to a Captain America TV show
?
How’s that boot taste?
I don’t plan on getting Disney+ but man I hope they do fully show what happens to the people who lived those awful 5 years and went to jail or tried to kill themselves or lost someone who did die in those 5 years or was hurt bad in those 5 years who could have been “saved” of if the heroes didn’t selfishly not go back 5 years but wanted the past 5 years to happen for one little girl.Iron man doing this should be a story for everyone the next 10 years and hopefully some of the major villians come out of this and hopefully kill some heroes so that act of being a hero by Iron man makes his the dick villian he is.Also maybe show how the wait of all this turns his daugther into a super villain, it will be messed up but man would it make sense.
Well, yeah, they are going to mine this until we’re totally sick of it, but I’m not sure what else Tony was practically supposed to do. What, hit the Reset button like an episode of Voyager? No…everyone would hate that. Messing with time is also really dangerous, rewinding to before the Snap would practically accomplish what beyond a very good chance of it happening again?
What else do you think he read? The Great Gatsby? Probably!https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/62358/how-wwii-saved-great-gatsby-obscurity
YES I love history links!!! Thank you for this
Never mind the trauma of the Blip of everyone being gone and back, I’d like to see more about people dealing with the existential horror of realizing all that happened because a dude collected some rocks. How many other magic rocks are out there waiting to end the world? How much of everything we were taught about how the world works isn’t simply wrong but a lie?