The Flash and Elemental are both having crappy opening weekends
Elemental is set to be the worst Pixar opening in the studio's entire history
Aux News toy story
There’s a lot riding on the box office this holiday weekend: Warner Bros. has invested huge amounts of capital—both the real kind with dollar signs, and the reputational stuff—on Andy Muschietti and Ezra Miller’s The Flash, in the hopes that the superhero film will ultimately have been worth all the headaches and cash it’s cost. Meanwhile, Pixar has basically been praying that its latest, Elemental, will break the studio’s current slump, which kicked off in earnest when bosses at Disney started shoveling the company’s movies on to streaming services as blatant Disney+ bait during the pandemic lockdowns, and continued through last year’s Lightyear.
Neither of these hopes are really panning out.
Let’s take Pixar first, since it’s far more dire: The studio is now on track to have the worst opening weekend of its entire multi-decade run of films, as Variety reports that the animation giant’s latest offering is set to post numbers that we can only describe as “sub-Good-Dinosaur.” After getting mixed reviews out of Cannes, Elemental is projected to make less than $30 million this weekend, coming in at the very bottom of the company’s openings. In fact, it’s an open question whether the brand new film will even be able to open above Across The Spider-Verse, which is on its third week in theaters. Given that Pixar just went through a hefty round of layoffs, it’s looking to be grim times at the Toy Story studio.
Flash, by comparison, is doing merely kinda crappy, instead of outright disastrous: The film is currently being projected to bring in about $60 million this weekend, falling short of the studio’s hopes of a $70-$75 million opening. (There’s some hope that the Juneteenth holiday on Monday will goose those numbers a bit, but the recently instated federal holiday has yet to prove itself as a box office driver.) Those numbers are actually pretty standard for a DC film opening, in line with (if slightly lower than) what Aquaman did back in 2018, and Black Adam did last year. Of course, those films had drastically different final performances: Aquaman rode the holiday season to become the DCEU’s first billion-dollar movie, while Black Adam, uh, didn’t. (Flash’s low-for-superheroes “B” from CinemaScore suggests it’s more likely to follow the latter path than the former.)
The only real silver lining for DC Films heads James Gunn and Peter Safran is that they probably won’t be too badly blamed if Flash goes kablooey; the film’s been in development for nine years at this point, since way before they took over the studio last year, and they’ve basically been ushering it (and the last of the Snyderverse) out the door while forming their own plans for the studio.
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I went to the Flash on Thursday night, got there early, thinking there’d be a bit of a line on opening night, at least for concessions. neeeope. Theater almost empty when I sat down 20 minutes before, and barely got to half full. I think it’s actually a pretty good movie, surprisingly funny, solid action, does a fairly good job of explaining the time travel stuff. Solid B/B-, but I just don’t know who its for. It’s like it’s built for several different niche audiences. Keaton batman fans, DC comics fans, Ezra Miller apologists. I will say that the half-filled theater WAS almost entirely extremely enthusiastic and seemed to love it, laughing at actual funny parts and gasping at easter egg cameos.
Basically, for those who do see it, I can’t imagine them hating it.
All the controversies aside the trailers make it look like one of those super hero movies where you need to have seen a dozen movies before hand to understand what is going on and no one wants to do homework to see a movie. I’m sure like you said they explain everything well enough that a guy like me who never saw Batman V Superman and Justice League will get the gist of what’s going on without having to see those movies.Just so you don’t think I’m an MCU fanboy I think they are in trouble too because they are doing a piss poor job building to the next Avengers movie and the quality, especially the SFX, has dropped significantly post Endgame.
The movie’s a solid C. No better, no worse. It’s 20% an emotionally resonant, wonderfully acted solo Flash movie with wildly inventive ideas and great visualizations and uses of his powers — and 80% Last Action Hero.It’s also clearly a Frankenstein corporate product with bits and pieces of Warner Bros. IP shoved into the nooks and crannies until they literally overflow in the climax in some of the most ghoulish (but ironically crowd-pleasing) ways possible.It’s hard for me to say a movie with this much talent on display is bad, but that talent is mostly shoved into the first twenty minutes. After that, the whole thing just goes on autopilot unless it’s two characters standing in a room talking about how it sucks for your parents to die.
Having read all the spoilers, It sounds far more like a “spot the reference” type of film, shoving in as much stuff to make the audience go “I recognize that!”
And having just seen Spiderverse last night, seeing a movie that does indeed reference stuff from other iterations of the franchise… but only to *serve* the story that is actively being told. I wish I could explain it better. But Spideverse never felt like pandering. It all supported the story being told, rather than the entire point BEING a “reference.”
This should’ve/could’ve been the culmination of a decade of DCU movies like Endgame was, and like that movie, you really did need to see a bunch of other movies to realyl get it. I think both Marvel and DC sort of took it for granted that people had seen all the requisite movies, but they certainly can’t do that going forward.
I will say that with the Flash movie, you don’t NEED to have seen any of the other movies, really, just a basic understanding of who Batman and the Flash and maybe the Justice League are. What’s funny is that knowing the plots of other movies doesn’t help you appreciate this movie as much as knowing the history of the other movies (going back 5o years).
lol go home Snyderhead you just wanted to use this as an opportunity to take a dig at the MCU. Which I find extremely fashionable of incels.
Honestly as an older comic book fan who was in his early 20’s when Keaton’s Batman hit theaters it felt pretty squarely aimed at me. I know Gunn is a bit younger than I am, but I feel sure he liked a lot of it for the same reasons I did—the nostalgia bait in some of the movies easter eggy moments I absolutely loved, and my teenage son didn’t really understand (a lot of the ending I had to explain to him after the movie). Old nerds like me are probably a pretty small target audience unfortunately–and a lot of my friends like being able to pause movies on the huge TV’s we can actually afford now…
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and a lot of my friends like being able to pause movies on the huge TV’s we can actually afford now…”It’s funny how often, while sitting in the theater, I made a move for the phantom remote to pause and rewind the movie.
I was barely 8 when Burton’s Batman came out and I loved it more than anything. Some of the beats were obviously obnoxious, but overall these parts of the film resonated with me more than I expected.
(millenial) I was with you until the last line you home-owning jackass.
I loved it. The cgi for the cameos was wierd. I dont think it was just shitty CGI quality because they had hella time to work on it and spent so much money. The director said they did it on purpose to show the flashes pov in the timeforce, and I’ll choose to believe him but it was a wierd and bad choice.
The Snyderverse is dead, so The Flash is kind of a “why bother” event (and the film is a turnoff for anyone who know’s about Miller’s shenanigans). MCU has beat the multiverse stuff into the ground, so that appears tired too. And while Gen Xers like mysef may be interested in seeing Keaton behind the cowl again, it’s not enough to get most of us into the theater on opening weekend (I saw Top Gun: Maverick 3 months after it came out in the theater… but this film won’t have those legs, so it’s a streamer for me).Also, “…There’s some hope that the Juneteenth holiday on Monday will goose those numbers a bit…” I don’t know that that many people actually get Juneteenth off, and the older black audience will probably go for The Blackening, which takes place on Juneteenth too, or finally takes the kiddos to Spider-Verse.
SPOILERSIt’s also not aimed at, well, fans of the Flash as a character, since the Flash and Iris West are the only characters from his own stories who are in it. Indeed, they even wrote out the Flash villain who was involved in the comics story the movie’s plot is (loosely) based on.SPOILERS
Yeah, that’s something that got me too – it’s not a Flash movie. It’s a DC event movie. A bit like Captain America Civil War wasn’t really a Cap movie. But at least in that case, you had two full movie of Captain America beforehand, and he appeared in two group features. We’ve seen Flash only in one group feature. (Kind of two if you’ve seen the Snyder Cut, but I have not). Making Flashpoint as your first solo Flash movie was always a dumb move.
I’m not sure where the “MCU has beat the multiverse stuff into the ground” attitude has come from (and to be sure it isn’t just you). They’ve only had two movies and one show where it has factored heavily. It might feel more beat into the ground than it is due to the Arrowverse playing around with it for close to a decade.
As far as I can tell, Junteenth is only really a day off for government employees and people who work at banks. That’s not a small number of people but it’s certainly not enough to really make this a “holiday weekend” in any practical sense.
I loved Soul and Turning Red, and thought it was a minor disgrace they were “relegated” to streaming. I do increasingly think Pixar is dying, but just doesn’t know it yet. The lightning left the bottle years ago and Disney can’t leave them be.
I don’t know that it’s dying in so much as the same has been said of Disney over and over again, but ultimately they go through ebbs and flows of success. Realistically, studios need to be looking at how families are consuming media. It’s easy to say they were “relegated” to streaming, but arguably, that’s where kids and parents are watching movies.
The fact that Pixar straight up copied the concept and idea from Zootopia but just changed it from animals to elements is a sign that the well is running dry over there at Pixar. That’s why this movie is bombing at the box office. We’ve seen this before in Zootopia.
Between that and all of these pointless sequels and spinoffs from their past hits is the fatigue setting in. If they continue down this path for their next few films and one can say they’re done.
I’m not saying this was a good Pixar movie – as I said, I think it’s a given that all studios ebb and flow and expecting Pixar to forever be the BEST is silly at best. People said Disney was done in the 70s and here we are so I think that’s an extreme position.Pixar is also coming off Luca, Soul and Turning Red that were all fairly well-received with Soul in particular cleaning up on awards.But there is also data showing that families aren’t returning to theaters all that quickly, and the direct to streaming Pixar movies performed very well. Family-focused animation may need a more multi-pronged delivery.
Your last paragraph conflicts with your second and is generally not the case. Luca, Soul and Turning Red, on top of Mario Bros, and Spiderverse show that if the movie is good and critics like it, then families will come, which is the same as it ever was. It’s just that the stakes are a lot higher this time since movie production and marketing is more expensive now and has to compete with streaming, so it has to break even more than before.
The problem with Pixar is that as a subsidiary, Disney will not keep tolerating constant flops like this and will start forcing their hand and being more controlling and the Pixar as we know it will be gone. We’re already seeing it as far as Gayln Sussman and others getting fired for the Lightyear flop, and more Toy Story sequels and sequels to past movies like Inside Out (there is even sort of a sequel for Up in Elemental) instead of new and original content.
Except they don’t if you read what I wrote – Mario Bros and Spiderverse both skewed adult. 60% of the Mario Bros opening weekend attendees were adults ages 18 – 34, for Spiderverse that number went up to 67%. Even Minions: Rise of Gru saw children under 10 accounting for only 12% of attendees.Early reporting on Elemental – which is understandably incomplete – is that it is not on the radar of similarly adult audiences.So again, the takeaway is that *families* are not returning to the box office. Animation that is targeted to 18 – 34 year olds on the other hand is performing well.Again, if you focus on Lightyear and Elemental, they are box office disappointments. If you look at the non-theatrical releases – Luca, Soul, and Turning Red – they did gangbusters on Streaming and also all did decent critical numbers with some Oscars among them. So to my original point – Families not returning to the Box Office is a factor.
If you actually saw Mario Bros and Spiderverse, which are both rated PG, they absolutely don’t skew adult. They’re kids/teen movies that adults watch, QED: family movies. If they were geared toward towards teens and adults, then they’d be rated PG-13. That 60-67% you mention are not adults seeing it alone. They’re with their children as you conveniently left out the remaining 40% are kids. Your argument would be better and legit if it were 70-80% adults alone watching these movies Sources on that: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/09/business/media/super-mario-bros-movie-theaters-kids.htmlLightyear flopping had nothing to do with what you’re arguing either and more to do with it being a critical flop, which turned away a lot of people, and Asian, Mid-East, Eastern European countries banning it, and christian groups boycotting it here because of the gay characters. You’re also forgetting that Onward didn’t do well either on streaming because the critics didn’t like it either.
And then you have these stats that film attendance by adults alone, especially older skewing adults do not go to the movies as much as they used to: https://pro.morningconsult.com/analysis/older-moviegoers-reluctant-to-return-to-theaters. So if you say families going to films are in decline, let’s see some reputable stats to back that up.
Except I actually do have the stats to back that up: Only 16% of the audience opening weekend was under 12. The 60% of adults excludes parents accompanying children. The largest demographic for Super Mario was adult men. It was nostalgia-filled. The 67% for Spiderverse is also only adults not accompanying children (which are tracked separately. 40% of the Spiderverse audience were adults ages 18 – 23, comprising the biggest group. 25 – 34 year olds accounted for 37%. The remaining 33% of the audience was children and adults accompanying children, which shockingly studios track separately.I agree Lightyear was awful, but again for more examples of the Family Box Office dying:*Mario – 60% of ticket buyers were 18 – 34 without a child
* Spiderverse: 67% of tickets buyers 18 – 34 without a child
*Minions: Rise of Gru: Only 10% of tickets were sold to children under 10 and 23% to parents accompanying a child suggesting the other 67% were adults without children.
*Puss in Boots: Majority ticket buyers reported to be between 18 – 23 (plus opening was $12 million in the US)
*Sonic: Opening box office was 31% children. 42% adults without a child (27% were accompanying adult)Also to be clear – I’m talking about ticket-buyers, not studio intentions. Anything can be rated PG and marketed to kids, but the reality is the ticket buyers aren’t children. Spiderverse is very popular with young adults. Which is great! But no matter what movie you think you’re making who actually shows up matters.
“Reputable stats” from where? Where are you sources? This whole “Mario – 60% of ticket buyers were 18 – 34 without a child” you keep saying there is nowhere I could find that could confirm and exactly says that. Anywhere that cites that does not say without children. Cite a legit source that straight up says “without children.”“Puss in Boots: Majority ticket buyers reported to be between 18 – 23″ what does “majority” mean? And none of your numbers do not say “families do not go to movies anymore.” Especially for Sonic. Based on your numbers, 58% were adults with children which outnumbers adults alone. So how is that families no longer going to see movies when more than half went to go see Sonic?
I posted them above – Variety, Deadline, LA Times, and THR. They all post numbers weekly. StatSocial also aggregates information, but does not count ticket buyers under 18 so less relevant to this conversation. Most get there data from PostTrak. And no, they don’t say “without a child.” Instead they pull out “adults accompanying children” from the number. Basic subtraction does the rest. Based on your numbers, 58% were adults with children which outnumbers adults alone.With a kids movie, you usually expect your kids to be more than 31% of the number and your adults accompanying kids to be a smaller percentage since kids don’t usually attend movies individually with an individual adult so your kid percentage should be substantially higher than kids accompanying adults.Again, I also didn’t say that no families are going to the movies, but they are not returning to theaters in pre-pandemic numbers.
Me and another commenter have been saying that there is nowhere on the web that says and claims what you’re saying. I shared links to my sources. How come you can’t simply put the link to where you say you saw that?“since kids don’t usually attend movies individually with an individual adult so your kid percentage should be substantially higher than kids accompanying adults.”I highly doubt that 2-8 year olds are seeing movies individually. They’re with adults. Again, I also didn’t say that no families are going to the movies, but they are not returning to theaters in pre-pandemic numbers. I never said that either. I’ve been asking you to provide clear, direct, stats and numbers to back that up. I shared a NY Times article that says otherwise. You have yet to share anything to say otherwise other than saying that more adults are showing up at kids movies, but that doesn’t mean that families are not returning to them either.
I highly doubt that 2-8 year olds are seeing movies individually. They’re with adults.Yeah, and that’s not what I said – Kids typically are taken to a movie in groups (i.e. you and your cousins, you and your friends, you and your siblings) and each child isn’t individually accompanied by an adult (i.e. 5 kids aren’t accompanied by 5 adults). So when those ratios are that close, it’s not a good sign of groups of kids with chaperones going to the movies. Mom and her bestie aren’t making plans to take the kids to the movies.
I provided clear direct stats. I provided you the list of sources. I even provided you their sources. Some of it, like the LATimes, is behind a paywall.You don’t have to believe me. You can keep living your life as is. That doesn’t change that theater owners are complaining about families not returning to theaters and content appealing to older audiences and not small children.
Mario, Sonic, Minions, and even Puss In Boots say otherwise. Yes, streaming is appealing to families. But other studios are putting out big family hits in theaters at the same time that Disney is flailing.
But the one thing all those movies have in common is that they’re based on previous IP or part of a franchise. I don’t think there’s been a single original animated film that’s done well at the box office in the past few years.
And all earned their money on childless adults, not the under 10 set.
Good point. The Bad Guys did well, but that’s based on books I think. How many original non-animated film have done well at the box office in the past few years? It doesn’t seem like there have been many of those either. Honestly, it seems like animated movies from Disney are some of the only ones still trying to be somewhat original. Oh, and horror. There are plenty of original horror movies every year.
But families are not actually going to see those movies:*Mario – 60% of ticket buyers were 18 – 34 without a child
* Spiderverse: 67% of tickets buyers 18 – 34 without a child
*Minions: Rise of Gru: Only 10% of tickets were sold to children under 10 and 23% to parents accompanying a child suggesting the other 67% were adults without children.
*Puss in Boots: Box office was driven by older Gen Z nostalgia with most ticket buyers between 18 – 23 (plus opening was $12 million in the US)
*Sonic: Opening box office was 31% children. 42% adults without a child (27% were accompanying adult)So again to my point – animated and family fare that is performing at the box office with ADULTS is doing well. Family fare only targeted at children with no nostalgia, not so much.
Interesting info. I’m not sure of your sources, but when I google some of it I get different results. Regardless, I can certainly see the movies I listed – Mario and Sonic in particular – getting a lot of adults so your point is well taken. (I didn’t include Spiderverse in my original reply, as it didn’t seem to be a kids/family movie in same vein as the others.)
I wondered how those breakdowns compared to recent Disney movies. Little Mermaid seems to show similar #s – 61% were 18-34 (not sure if with or without kids) and 22% of tickets were kids. Lightyear – 48% general, 25% parents, 22% kids. Mermaid has done okay, but not spectacular and obviously Lightyear was not a success for Disney. Both are also based on existing properties so they have some of the similar elements to the successful non-Disney movies.If the demo breakdown is similar across all these movies and some are making a lot more money than others, then I don’t think we can say it’s just about family viewing habits.
Variety and other sources will always report “adults accompanying children” outside of the 18 – 34 demo. All my data came from trade papers – Variety, Deadline, LA Times, and THR. I used adjusted data released 2 – 3 weeks after initial release (i.e. once Sunday is fully counted for opening weekend, not when it was reported on estimates).I’m not saying it’s “just” about family viewing habits. I’m saying family viewing habits is probably a consideration studios need to look hard at when they’re looking at box office trends. That doesn’t even necessarily mean they make different films, but they need to look at how they are courting adult audiences because they need those numbers.Anecdotally, Spiderverse and Mario, in particular, did heavy marketing towards adults (from channels they put ads on, movies they ran trailers ahead of, to marketing tie ins). Elemental seemed to do very little – It was reported that the Cannes premiere was supposed to appeal to adults, but then the response was tepid. I’m not defending Elemental as a good movie. It seems middling. But when we’re looking at box office numbers there is more going on that studios could deal with. Luca, Soul and Turning Red all did high streaming numbers. I’m sure someone at Disney is reviewing those numbers as well.
families being the largest target (due to ticket quantity) was such a sour spot during all that homophobia surrounding the release of Lightyear. It’s also why it’s a fool’s dream that we’ll ever get a bold MCU entry – parents are the bottom line.
Three families walked out of my showing of Multiverse of Madness when Wanda murdered the Illuminati and had blood on her face.
side note: although I loved Volume 3, my theatre sorta skipped a beat in terms of reaction when Star-Lord said “close the fucking door”.
My problem is that Elemental’s conceit, despite the opportunities for cool visuals, doesn’t really actually do anything for me. Feels very random, in the “we thought this up while stoned” way.
The character designs are pretty ugly and uninspired. Nothing about those images make me want to see it
Yeah, another who has taken highschool chemistry probably finds the interpretation of elements here to mean “earth wind fire water” pretty silly. Or at least that was my take.
Elements in the layman’s sense is somehow less vague than personifying emotions in Inside Out (I still don’t get the love for that film).
It just feels like a lazy version of Inside Out.
just like idk how many fire and water puns can this movie make…?
From where I sit, Pixar has the same problem as most popular films, TV and books written in the last 5-7 years.The scripts are just getting worse and worse. There are some exceptions, but screenplays are just getting more simplistic and more same-y across the board, for kids and adults alike.Normally I’d say that a run of big critical and commercial failures could right the ship, but when most media is produced by streaming services, they can hide commercial failures on their books way more easily if they avoid a theatrical release.When people saying streaming is killing cinema, I’m pretty sure this is what they mean.
Turning Red would like to have a word with you. I don’t think it’s scripts getting worse I think audiences are getting dumber/developing simpler tastes quite frankly. Culturally within my lifetime we seem to have switched from watching a film actively to watching films passively half asleep. It’s more to keep us docile than it is to stimulate us this days.
Case in point: Spider-Verse is a stimulating film and that’s why people on my instagram feed have been losing their minds over it for weeks.
“Is Pixar Dead?” is an article I expect to see several times over the next few weeks here and elsewhere, and I’m sort of surprised it hasn’t happened already. Usually a studio only needs one underperforming movie before people begin declaring them dead and buried, and Pixar has had two since Toy Story 4 made $1b+ in 2019. Of course, Onward opened against the nobody saw it coming surprise spring hit Covid 19, and nobody ever seemed to know why Lightyear was made to begin with.Realistically, I think Pixar just reinvigorated the animation market when they first appeared, and it’s no surprise that they spawned the very competition that would eventually end up dominating them years later. I don’t think anyone would generally argue that Illumination makes better movies than Pixar does, even now, but they are much more profitable with a whole lot less effort involved. Most families don’t seem to be interested in the For Kids But Also Kinda For Adults style anymore, at least not at $80+ for only two hours.
It has been written.
Yeah…. I’m honestly finished with “for kids but also kinda for adults” animation dominating the mainstream. Honestly….. sign me up for more Spider-Verse or to go a step further, Invincible starring Steven Yuen.
Kids had their time can I, an adult person, have animation back please?
My Dad wont drive me out of town to see Spider-Verse because “animated movies are for children” so I actually have to wait for home release. His poor uninitiated mind.
“$80+ for only two hours.” I usually pay twice that for half that…/fartnoiseYou’re welcome.
I too am still mad about those two films going to streaming, your not alone. Turning Red was one of my favourites of last year.
The Flash isn’t bad, but it’s also really all over the place. It starts really badly, with a whiny main character and mean-spirited jokes, gets better, and then gets weird at the end. It became very clear to me early on that some bits of the movie were written very far apart in time from others. Also, the best Easter egg of the movie is going to be completly opaque to anyone not versed in the history of unmade DC films. I already know I’ll have to explain to my mom why there is a scene of *** playing *** and fighting ***.
I know about that story, and I still think it’s an awful addition to the movie. I never watched Space Jam 2, but a lot of the cameos and easter eggs in this felt like the reviews said that movie did wrong. Or on their rival’s side, the way Free Guy had a bunch of Disney shit tacked on at the end because those IPs were suddenly available to exploit. The cameos in the Arrowverse’s Crisis event seemed a lot more earned and far less gimmicky.
Eh, it didn’t bother me too much. The whole structure of the ending is bizarre and comes out of nowhere, but if you’re going to throw cameos around, at least give me something I’ve never actually seen, like that story brought to life. If you’re going for member berries, I prefer something obscure and a bit creative, rather than having Michael Keaton say “let’s get nuts”, or raising the dead. (It’s the same reason I like the inclusion of Ugly *** in the Chip and Dale movie) I never saw Space Jam 2 – I’m a masochist, but not to that level. Free Guy’s Disney references, I’ll admit it, got me like a sucker. When he deploys Cap shield and the Avengers fanfare rise up? Yeah, that absolutely got my lizards brain in a frenzy. But I get why it got onto some people’s nerves. Interestingly, my brother disliked the movie because he felt that the high number of gamer cameos veered into pandering. Not being into the gamer scene that much, those went over my head.
I’m not sure why you feel the need to * out the name of a character in the Chip ‘n Dale movie which has been out for over a year but you do you.
I know you were being vague and non-spoilery but I know enough for me to realize who it is
I’m sorry. I tried my best, but maybe I should have just gone with a spoiler warning up top. My bad.
No worries. Not the end of the world. If I really wanted to go hardcore “no spoilers” for this movie I’d probably not have read any comments here.
I have no shame admiting I caught Flash on a pirate site. No way was I going to buy a theater ticket unless it was a home run flash point rather than a black adam. There is about twenty minutes of self induldgent Ezra Miller nonsense in there that really wasn’t needed. It wasn’t even the terrible acting really because Ezra miller was made to play a moron, it just wasn’t needed. They could have easily edited it out in two sentences and done something more interesting fleshing out the third act better.Maybe ot was a fitting sendoff to the snyderverse, maybe it wasn’t but even black adam with it’s absurd western gun fight scene was less embarassing to watch in it’s worst parts.
This is stupid. Pay for your movies like a grown-up.
Counter point, fuck those leeches who enable a serial abusers and steal that shit.
You do you, man. I enjoy movies, TV, and video games, and I think it’s fair for some cash it make its way from my wallet to the people who made it, that’s all.
Better idea: tell the supposed grown-ups in Hollywood to make movies worth paying for.
Yuck, why bother to watch a shitty cam bootleg when you can just wait two months and see it in 4k. The bad audio, sounds of people shuffling around, watermarks for crappy gambling sites… blegh
Wit the way it’s performing, probably closer to a month. But if you search the torrents you find some good quality stuff. For example we had plans to take the kids to see Spider-verse this weekend up until the point where we all got Covid. But in order to cheer my kids up to the fact we are stuck inside for a week or so, I went and found a copy online. It was a telesync so the sound was clear and no crowd sounds. Cam was clear, in focus and not cropped. Looked good enough to play on my 120” screen. But I did have to grab a few copies to find a good one that wasn’t full of betting site ads. Note for the narcs. I already preordered the 4k Blu-ray of the movie so Sony is getting my money eventually
Elemental looks like a parody of a Pixar movie. What’s next for Pixar, Toy Story 5? I’m sure that will do good for them but it feels so creatively bankrupt. It’s a shame because I really enjoyed Luca and Turning Red. I also didn’t think Lightyear was terrible.
That and the Kraken thing whose trailer I’ve seen a couple of times definitely look like “ChapGPT, summarize a Pixar/generic kids’ animated movie”
uggggggh i saw that trailer before spiderverse. Even giving it the benefit of the doubt, the character and art looks so terribly bland and indistinct, beyond the cringeworthy obviousness of every line.
Their next movie is called Elio, which from the trailer looks like it has potential, at least. After that, looks like Pixar is going to be pumping out sequel after sequel for a while.
The issue with Lightyear is literally just tell your mind that it isn’t an existing IP and suddenly it becomes watchable. For a child, rather, I tried to sit down to watch it (I’m an adult) and the language used in some of the opening dialogue was so clearly intended for a children audience I ended up shutting it off.
Come to think of it I actually don’t know if I’m talking about Strange New World or Lightyear…. tbh I guess that disproves my point because Strange New World was basically Lightyear without the IP branding and that film flopped too so what do I know. Kids don’t like space stuff anymore?
Strange World isn’t a space movie. The characters travel to an uncharted part of the planet, which turns out to be, well, strange. It doesn’t have much in common with Lightyear except that both of them lost tons of money.
Gonna be a LONG cold winter for woke entertainment companies.
I say thee, “Derp”.
Not sure what your twisted hateful brain considers woke but there is a Spider-man movie out there right now making tons of money which features a bunch of Spider-people and literally only one with a speaking part is a cis-white male Peter Parker and he is basically a cameo. Seems woke to me but definitely not broke
Uh… what? Peter B Parker is a significant part of the movie.
I disagree. He shows up and hour and a half in and is just one voice in the big chase at the end. I’m sure he will do more in the next movie but he was not in much of this one.
It amazes me that people don’t realize that woke refers to being “awoken to social issues” I asked someone who cited “the woke mob” yesterday and they couldn’t tell me what woke even means lol.
While I’m with you philosophically, understand that Spider-Verse (and Little Mermaid, for that matter) have basically tanked in the global box office — most of their money is made domestically. Spider-Verse was recently banned in a number of Middle Eastern countries over the existence of pro LGBTQ+ messaging. Meanwhile, the only hope of Fast X breaking even is international markets. Interesting that it features a cast of largely non-White folks…(not making a point with that statement, it’s just facts, and worth discussing — I don’t have an answer and am curious as to why the reality is what it is). My first instinct is that Spider-Man and Ariel are characters that have existed as White for decades while the Fast crew have always been more diverse, so there’s less of a ‘learning curve’ (for lack of a better term) for audiences that tend to be more racially homogenous.I’m sure someone will find something offensive about that, so before you come at me, how about trying a jigsaw puzzle or a crossword?
Spider-verse is doing fine internationally https://collider.com/spider-man-across-the-spider-verse-global-box-office-489-million/
Wanna hear a joke?Guy walks into a bar. Bartender says, “A superhero movie starring a black kid with a mostly black cast breaks box office records; it’s only challenged in its second week by a Transformers movie with a mostly black and Latino cast led by a Latino guy; a Pixar movie where all of the minorities are just cartoon allegories of dirt and water and an almost all-white Flash movie revolving around a fridged Latina with only one black character both tank immediately out of the gate.”Guy says, “Guess it’s a bad time to go woke.”That guy. He’s the joke.
lol well said
You’re a fucking dunce. You don’t even deserve a polite reply. Sorry the world is passing you by. Maybe it’s time for you to get in the forever box now
It’s not November yet, Samhain. Go back in your box.
It’s a amazing how some people consider “it’s okay to date outside your ethnic group” a “woke” plotline. I guess somebody missed “Guess Who’s Coming To Dinner.” Did I just wake up in Mississippi in 1959, or something? The plot’s hackneyed, sure, but woke? Really?
What’s also amazing is a tonne of parents in the US think a guy kissing another man is more explicit than a man kissing a woman.
I was using Bumble this morning and I threw on Travel Mode to the Philippines and a female coworker was like “be careful with who you match with you might be in for a surprise!” and I was like “I’m not homophobic I support the transgender community. And then she unmatched me so…. People are backward.
Honestly, I’m all for careful labelling. If you present as male but don’t have male parts, or present as female but don’t have female parts, that should either go in your personal ad or be mentioned before the date’s made. People are gonna have certain expectations, and those need to be addressed. I’m not giving out any free passes for gay panic or trans panic defenses, but still. If you’re positive for herpes or HIV, it’s the same deal. I’ve got an anxiety condition that I mention to most of my potential partners just so that they’ll know what’s up if something goes south. I think it’s good practice for everyone. Your co-worker’s joke is still tasteless and unfunny, but that’s sort of a separate issue.
I still remember two months ago when right wing media was furious because Across the Spider-Verse featured a trans flag in one scene, and the main character proudly sports a Black Lives Matter pin in another scene.
And now that movie’s made half a billion dollars and is on track to beat every live action superhero movie this year.
I loved Spiderverse and I think the “woke” complaints are stupid, but Spiderverse is definitely not beating every live action superhero movie of 2023. It’s “only” made 425 million and is on track to make around 650 million (maybe more now that Flash is failing). Guardians 3 has made more than 800 million. Not to mention that The Marvels and Aquaman and the Lost Kingdom (which are both sort of wildcards) are still coming (Blue Beetle is too, but I’m going to go out on a limb and say it’s not going to be a contender for biggest anything).
We’re not even in Summer yet?
Whatever, moron. The leadership of most companies is far right be definition. Some of the “woke” companies’ owners and leadership probably clandestinely support the Proud Boys and other loser Nazis.
Fascist rich people love dumbshit racist poors throwing themselves at progress and change. You people are always so happy to comply, like obedient dogs.
Follow your leader, Nazi.
We can argue superhero fatigue and Pixar fatigue and everything else, but realistically, studios also need to be looking hard at the box office and the theatrical experience. Across the Spiderverse was very successful as animation and a superhero movie, but much was written of the age of the audience skewing a lot higher than Elemental. People are not seeing theatrical films the same way they were prior to Covid-19. We see it in the box office every single weekend.
Every time a bad or meh superhero movie comes out someone yells “Superhero fatigue” and just forget that the good or at least watchable ones still make bank. GOTG 3 and Spider-verse both did great. But they were also good.
It’s kind of weird that Paramount isn’t in this discussion, since Transformers is basically falling off the map after one week. And honestly Mission Impossible is losing theaters a week or two after it opens to Oppenheimer which can’t help it any. They seem to be victims of their own scheduling ineptitude more than anything.
Oppenheimer and Barbie. While I don’t see the appeal of the latter, if the AVClub commenters reflect the viewing audience, it’s gonna at least have a big opening weekend.
I can see Barbie doing modestly well because of all of the boomers through late millennials who played with Barbies going to see it but not Oppenheimer. Your average American/Tik Tok generation does not know or care who Robert Oppenheimer was, and insult to injury, it’s coming out the week before as MI Dead Reckoning. Barbie and Mission Impossible will steal a lot of Oppenheimer’s thunder.
Yeah, I’ve encountered wayyy more people (millennials) in real life saying that they are excited to see the Barbie movie. The only people I’ve encountered talking about Oppenheimer are AVC commenters.
My teenage sons think Barbie looks brilliant. My 16-year-old and his friends are planning an honest-to-God double-feature day with Barbie and Oppenheimer (which I would have to be SO stoned for….but now that I think about it like that…). I think I’m becoming ‘grizzled’, as I’m damn well over the ‘meta’ phase everything seems to be in right now. I won’t begrudge taking them, probably, since it does appear at least a bit subversive in a way that appeals to me…but man that trailer is a LOT.
I only mentioned Oppenheimer because of Nolan’s ‘prestige cinema’ contract. Theaters have to pull MI out of IMAX and Dolby and whatever other ‘huge screen experience’ theaters out there when Oppenheimer opens. I’d heard very recently on a movie news podcast that Cruise was pissed about it –which I swear is the only reason I’m so up on my “Christopher Nolan’s contracts”. I mean, I’m a fan, but that’s stalker-ish level.
Transformers had an uphill battle, did solid for opening weekend. I know it was long delayed but it feels like Paramount should have delayed it for later in the summer. Sandwiched between Spiderverse and Flash, with Indiana Jones coming right after that, seems like a poor bet to make.
I don’t think you’ll catch much steam with Transformers-fatigue
Eh, it was more of a ‘cinema is dying’ argument than any certain ‘fatigue’ of a series factor—I think with Transformers at this point it’s more a ‘meh’ factor in all honesty. It opened to basically the same numbers as Flash is trending. Though I really do think Paramount is shit for scheduling their films. From everything I’ve heard this latest Transformers is really good, but it was out of the format I’d really want to see it in (IMAX or Dolby) in a week….so now I’ll just wait two months and watch it at home.
I grew up on Beast Wars, watch your tongue when you fantacize about a film catered to my nostalgia failing (for no reason that truly matters to you).
Spider-verse is also being used as “proof” of a robust animation box office, and while it may prove space for adult-skewing animated features, the family box office is a legit concern when we look at both Marvel and Pixar. While I don’t love the idea that all Pixar movies would be direct to streaming, Premium Video on Demand is very popular with that demo. I’m literally babysitting tonight and if I could have plunked on a brand new movie, my life would have been easier.
The people who spout “superhero fatigue” all the time are the same people who used to love sharing gossip at parties in highschool. My point is they don’t have anything else to interesting to say and want to be the first person to notice something popular failing.
The box office is pretty robust right now actually. With what’s still to come out this year it should match or break pre-covid 2019 domestically. There’s an impression that things are worse than they are because some studios like Pixar and WBD are underperforming, WBD in particular.
The first quarter of 2023 was still 25% behind the 2019 box office even with a substantially higher ticket, but I’m not just talking about box office numbers. I’m talking about audience demographics. Movie goers over 40 are continuing to lag. The family box office also continues to struggle. The most successful movies have been geared towards 18 – 34 year olds. ATVS, for example, performed great but skewed older than family audiences. Given the percentage of movie goers pre-pandemic that were female-skewing family goers that should be a concern for studios, which leads credence to Disney and Pixar, in particular, needing to assess their release and marketing strategies.
Even if you remove Endgame from 2019, 2023 is not even at half of what 2019 did, and nothing yet to come out this year is going to break $400m domestic. The only movies that might even hit $300m are Indiana Jones, Mission Impossible, and The Marvels, and I’d bet no more than one of them actually does. Hardly anything else even rates. 2023 will be extremely lucky to break 80% of pre-pandemic box office.
I’m still firmly in “probably not going to a theater ever again” territory… but I would happily buy (not rent, buy) both of these movies if they were available via VOD. I wonder if the “COVID is over” honeymoon for theaters has finally ended and we’re starting to see the long-term “my content my way” market forces taking over…?
Theaters will soon go the way of drive-ins and rotary phone.
They really should have released turning red and Luca in theaters.
Turning Red maybe. Luca was still during the height of covid.
Right but a delay would have been worth it.
I think it’s pretty clear that PIXAR has lost its mojo- no surprise here. It feels like, with few exceptions, that nearly everything Disney buys and twiddles its fingers in gets sent down sub-par lane. Hell…they’re even putting out sub-par live action movies that are based on their own stuff…hoping for success because of either nostalgia, unapologetic pandering, or a combination of both.
I saw it coming when Disney bought PIXAR…it was just a matter of time.
That’s how it works yeah. Big company buys successful little guy, finds a way to mass produce product cheaper. Cheaper product means more money for big company so they gonna keep doing that.
“the studio’s current slump, which kicked off in earnest when bosses at Disney started shoveling the company’s movies on to streaming services as blatant Disney+ bait during the pandemic lockdowns”Jesus. Their choices were 1) open the movies in theaters while everyone was locked down, 2) delay their entire pipeline by a year, or 3) cancel them altogether. STOP GIVING US STUFF FOR CLOSE TO FREE YOU FUCKING CAPITALIST BASTARDS!
Is Juneteenth really a new holiday for many people? I know it’s a federal holiday but there are lot of federal holidays that we office cogs don’t get off for by our corporate overlords. Not enough to effect any box offices I assume. This isn’t a comment on why we have the holiday or why it’s important. Just that I’m not sure many get off for it
It really depends upon how many state governments adopt is as I believe that would translate into public school students having it off.
That would make sense except most kids are off anyways since it’s the summer
Well go and be logical.
I have it off this year, and I don’t even live in Texas!
It’s a new holiday for quite a few people, although members of the Black diaspora have been celebrating it in one form or another for decades. There does need to be a more widespread adoption of it so it would actually gain some traction, but these things take time. For example, I don’t have it off, and I work for an institution that’s pretty closely tied to banks. I also don’t have Veteran’s Day off, but that’s more because of an unfortunate blind spot in the company’s ideology.
Depends on your locale. I lived in Galveston for awhile and it is certainly a thing there.
Zootopia had cute bunnies to cover up the fact that it had no idea how racism worked while the Flash is half of a fantastic movie spackled over with parts of ten other scripts that don’t hold together to make another, longer movie.
Elemental is honestly the first time I’ve seen trailers for a Pixar flick and just been like “… eh.” as opposed to at minimum “It’s Pixar so I’m going to at least give it a shot”.
My first response was, “Oh, Disney gets to show me they have no idea how racism works again.” Turns out I might have been wrong — it was just a bad movie.
The designs are just so off-putting and the entire setting seems to have been contrived just so they could have the central joke of “ha ha woman fire, man water! Gender funny!”
At first I was ok with the designs but the more I saw of it, especially the fire girl, the more it felt like… not sure what the term for it is, but you know how a lot of modern animation, when a character is wearing a checkerboard or some other complicated pattern, rather than it being a static image that moves and adjusts with the character, it’s more like a background plate that the animation frames are being moved over? That’s what this felt like.
I’m just staying out of Elemental because Pixar movies used to always have something special to twist them in a fun way. But this one looks like such a basic ass romantic comedy. Like it’s just “Somewhat goofy dude meets slightly hotheaded woman, they fall in love despite being from different traditional backgrounds, also she has a scary foreign dad that thinks no one will ever be good enough for his little girl. Can they find love? (Producer’s Note: Yes.)“ The aspect of them being elementals is just not a big enough twist for me to give a shit. It’d be fine if it was a short, I guess.For me the fall really started with Incredibles 2, which has like two good action setpieces in it, sure, but otherwise is basically “What if Incredibles again but this time the leads sound painfully elderly?” Like they still sidelined the kids, they didn’t move the Jack-Jack stuff forward, nothing. Just another Randian-esue “super people should get super privileges even if one meanie hates it” story. And they had TWENTY years to think about it!
I won’t say the incredibles 2 was a bad movie, but it sure as hell was completely unecessary and pointless.
I’ve basically seen nothing in promotion for Elemental, so that might be a cause.
It seems like original animated movies might no longer be viable at the box office, which would be very sad (especially since I thought Elemental was very good). Recent stuff like Mario, Spiderverse, Puss in Boots, etc are all sequels or based on existing IP. It seems like audiences aren’t too keen on watching original stuff in theaters anymore.As for The Flash…yikes. It’s getting worse reception than stuff like Quantumania and Black Adam. On top of that, it’s on track to not only make less than Black Adam, but even less than 300 million dollars worldwide, which would be disastrous based on how confident they were in the film and how much they pushed it. I can’t imagine how Blue Beetle and Aquaman 2 will do.
I can’t help but think that Across the Spider-Verse kneecapped both these movies. The amazing stylistic flourishes of the Spider-Verse movies really make Pixar’s house style feel a bit too bland and safe; it seems like every other studio is branching out with different styles (look at the painted style of the upcoming Ninja Turtles film, or the different aesthetic choices of Puss in Boots 2) while Pixar stays with the same look its had since 1995 (with Turning Red being the only one that’s even mildly deviated from that style.)Don’t get me wrong, Pixar’s stuff always looks good, but it also has started to all look the same. They need to start being a bit less insular and take inspiration from something other than themselves.Elemental looks pretty and all, but Spider-Verse makes it look like it’s a decade behind the curve. And then there’s The Flash, which is a superhero movie about the multiverse, that looks nowhere near as cool and interesting as that other superhero movie about the multiverse starring Spider-Man. Especially when DC’s own top brass have already announced their intent to reboot this whole universe, making Flash feel unnecessary.
Saw the TMNT trailer last night, it looks RAD.
Luca is really pretty and doesn’t look like “typical Pixar.” I really enjoyed it, and my kids loved it.
People are so enamored with this new style it’s ridiculous. I’m already over it.
…or that other superhero movie about the multiverse starring Spider-Man, or that superhero movie about the multiverse starring Doctor Strange, or that non-superhero movie about the multiverse that won all those Oscars…
What’s kind of funny to me is that if you think back a few years, the first Spider-Verse film STARTED the multiverse craze. No Way Home went into development swiftly afterward in a timeframe that left me scratching my head “did they just steal this idea from Spider-Verse”.
So now rightly after a slew of crappy multiverse superhero films Spider-Verse 2 slams down the gauntlet to show everyone how it’s done. As if to say “stop riding my coat tail live action superhero films!”
They really shit the bed by choosing Lightyear for theatres and Turning Red for streaming last year. Now it looks like they have two flops in a row. Yikes.
First it was They’re toys, but they’re people, and that was cool. Then they’re emotions but they’re people! and now They’re classical elements but they’re people! What’s next for Pixar? How conceptual can they get? I’m envisioning a superhero teamup movie—General Relativity, Schroginger’s Cat, and The Invisible Hand are three crusty old heroes who have band together to save their home, The Academy, from a dangerous new foe, The Truther.
Who has seen Flashpoint? I haven’t seen The Flash yet but am I correct in assuming that Supergirl plays Cyborg’s “last hero alive” role and Keaton’s Batman is a stand-in for Thomas Wayne Batman?
I’m fine with those tweaks but, my favourite part of the thing is the very end when The Flash meets with Batman and hands him a letter that Thomas Wayne wrote in the other timeline. Batman sheds a single tear and thanks the Flash – that was a badass moment and I’ve been hoping that some kind of version of it happens in this film but given that its Keaton and not Thomas Wayne idk how they’d do that.
It would just be dope for Affleck to get a moment like that in his final outing.