The Weeknd and his crew say this The Idol stuff is all a big misunderstanding
The Weeknd has deemed Rolling Stone "irrelevant" following its report on the show's working conditions
Aux News The Idol
Following the incendiary report published by Rolling Stone about the behind-the-scenes of HBO’s The Idol, the show’s lead and co-creator, Abel Tesfaye a.k.a. The Weeknd has shared a snippet from the forthcoming series in which his cult-leader character calls the publication “irrelevant.”
The short scene from The Idol features the singer, in which Tesfaye’s Tedros grimaces at the idea of a Rolling Stone cover shoot, with the caption, “Did we upset you?”
“Rolling Stone? Aren’t they a little irrelevant?” Tedros says in the clip. “Rolling Stone has 6 million followers on Instagram, half of them probably bots. And Jocelyn has 78 million followers, all real I’d assume. So she does a photo shoot, she tags them, they get her followers. More money for Rolling Stone, nothing for Jocelyn.”
It’s little lame to imply that a legacy publication sought out 13 sources from the cast and crew to share their stories of the toxic workplace as a vendetta against an unseen clip from a Sam Levinson show. It’s also a bit bold to belittle a publication that’s put you on the cover three times, but you do you, we guess.
The response does little to shed light on the allegations concerning The Idol’s set and creative direction, which has been described as “gone wildly, disgustingly off the rails.” In the expose from Rolling Stone, sources from production claim that Tesfaye disagreed with The Idol’s original director, Amy Seimetz, and argued the show focused too much on Depp’s character and the “female perspective.” The piece also says the show’s premise has devolved into a “rape fantasy” fit with “torture porn.”
The clip does however show a lot about the quality of acting, dialogue, and directing that all the firing, check cashing, and rewrites have resulted in. The clip ultimately poses the question, are we supposed to be aligning our view with the “modern day cult-leader” who exploits and abuses young women, or are we supposed to see him as a clown with no expertise on media relations? Either way, neither connotation works in Tesfaye’s favor.
Members of The Weeknd’s camp claim that the allegations made in the article concerning Seimetz departure are “simply not true,” and the director left the series for undisclosed reasons. In an email to The A.V. Club, a source claimed that “When you see the show you will understand these rumors are false.” Other sources have told Variety that the “female perspective” is still very much written into the fabric of the show. This is unfortunately something we will not know for sure until the show premieres, but there still is no set release day for the 6-episode season.
131 Comments
That scene he showed on his IG was trash, this is going to be a terrible show
Yeah, come on guys, it didn’t turn into a rape fantasy. It was *ALWAYS* a rape fantasy!
did he think that was some kind of clever response? because all he showed us was shitty acting.
Of course this shit was written by a woman and it’s a about/against a guy. avclub is trash.
I don’t know the dude’s music. I’ve only ever seen him in interviews, and in Uncut Gems. I have absolutely no basis for the following opinion: dude always struck me as a dirtbag.Could be wrong!
Heed the wisdom of Howie Bling: “He looks stupid.”
These revelations won’t be a surprise to anyone who ever listens to his lyrics.
“Rolling Stone has 6 million followers on Instagram, half of them probably bots. And Jocelyn has 78 million followers, all real I’d assume.”This doesn’t make a lot of sense. Why would you assume that all of this Jocelyn person’s followers are real? I only have 158 followers and I’m not even sure they’re all real. That’s all I have to say about any of this.
hahahaha bang on
Even if they’re all real, once you’re at 78 million followers, how many of those are actually regularly engaging? A bunch of those would be industry people who follow out of obligations, a chunk of them might have followed on a whim but never check in, plenty would be doing it in the hope of reciprocity. It’s an impressive number but there’s no reason to assume it’s more than that.
When Amy Seimetz left, so did any interest i had in checking this out. The atrocious acting in the clip he shared cemented that.
The AV Club: “Cancel Culture doesn’t exist.” Also The AV Club: yesterday publicly hoped this show will never be released, due to disputed anonymous production staff feedback.
So what you’re saying is that Cancel Culture doesn’t really exist as an actual force that can change things but is really just the hopes and dreams of a few people that ultimately come to nothing?
So, Cancel Culture was the friends we made along the way?
ACTUAL ANSWER: “Cancel culture” is just the latest name for social mores being enforced by society at large, which is something that has legitimately always happened, starting from the days/nights in which two or more cavemen huddled around a campfire.
Of course you would think that.Are you familiar with what happened to Drew Brees when he explained he wouldn’t take a knee for the anthem because both of his grandfathers fought in WWII? He was betrayed by his own teammates and called a racist. Is that “social mores being enforced by society at large”? Or is that a hysterical witch hunt due to not going along with performative activism?Tell me, what happens when people say “all lives matter”? https://www.kansascity.com/news/nation-world/national/article256384042.htmlTell me, what happened when people refused/forgot to post black squares on Instagram for BLM? Ask Emma Watson. Here’s something for you to chew on: https://www.newsweek.com/professor-suspended-not-giving-black-students-easier-final-exam-sues-ucla-1634873How many examples of this Maoist shit would you like?Social Justice is a fucking cult.
so it does exist then
My explanation of an extant concept indicates the existence of that concept, yes.
“Thog just saying Grogar should stop using that name for Cro-Magnon. It not Grogar’s word.”
The whole cave loves Flint Neanderthal, a lovely neanderthal that fashions tools from flint!
Also The AV Club: yesterday publicly hoped this show will never be released, due to disputed anonymous production staff feedback.I like how reactionary anti-media types love to qualify sources as “anonymous” as if Rolling Stone published their claims without vetting their identities first. As if you would believe whatever it is they said if you knew “Mark Smith, a grip” is the one who said it. Hell, they’d probably be accused of “just looking for attention.”You can’t win with some people (the A.V. Club included tbf).
I hope you understand (i) the “vetting” that may go on is often not particularly involved, and (ii) that the point is that relying solely on anonymous sources means no one else can vet the identities or motivations of the people involved. You’re right, it probably wouldn’t move the needle if it were a random “Mark Smith, a grip”; but it should would be helpful to know if it were “Mark Smith, a former grip who was fired two months ago for drinking while at work.”
I hope you understand that 1) many sources only come forward under the condition of anonymity because they fear retribution. If they can’t stay anonymous, there’s no story at all. 2) If a publication discovered that a source had a grievance, they probably would not use them as a source without some other evidence.
Didn’t Rolling Stone change ownership after they got sued for their “A Rape on Campus” story based on an anonymous source? This is 13 sources, which is a lot more, but RS is not the magazine with reliability in that respect.
Counterpoint: the most careful, vetted, reliable period for any publication is the long one *after* they have an embarrassing public black eye like that.
Mark Smith would make a terrible grip
“Cancel culture” is just what terrible fucking people who didn’t go to college call judgment, discernment, and the invisible hand of the marketplace. Pretending it is anything other than that or pretending that it is nefarious when done by other people but justified (or not even a thing) when their team does (this thing that every fucking person who ever lived does all the fucking time) is pathetic. Anyone who talks about cancel culture is either a disingenuous asshole trying to con stupid people or one of those stupid people themselves. Or, more commonly and what appears to be true in this case, a bit of both.
can i be upset that Janet Jackson’s career was ruined by an exposed nipple or does that make me a terrible fucking person who didn’t go to college?
Well, your poor reading comprehension might suggest that you are that, but a more reasoned reading of my statement would reveal that, just as people are allowed to make judgments, other people are allowed to have opinions on those judgments. The terrible fucking person who didn’t go to college part was pretending that this basic aspect of human civilization is new, partisan, and terrifying.Read, think, then snark next time.
Tell me, is this the invisible hand of the marketplace?https://www.newsweek.com/professor-suspended-not-giving-black-students-easier-final-exam-sues-ucla-1634873Is this professor a “disingenuous asshole trying to con stupid people?”Was this man not truly, genuinely cancelled? For refusing to break the law?I got examples for days. Face it, we’re in a cultural revolution. And you’re a cog in it.
If that was a good example, someone would have actually been cancelled, kiddo. Suspended pending an investigation and then reinstated. And this was the one example you came up with.You have “examples for days” of actions having consequences. Those examples will go back to the beginning of time, because, you know, this is how civilization works.
This man had to see a fucking psychiatrist and will forever be branded a racist. You’re a cult member.
“You have “examples for days” of actions having consequences. Those examples will go back to the beginning of time, because, you know, this is how civilization works.”Concentrate: That professor couldn’t grade people differently based on race because it is ILLEGAL. So by your logic, by not breaking the law, he’s just facing the consequences of NOT BREAKING THE FUCKING LAW AND BEING RACIST. Silly.
People who go to college know that anecdotes are not trends.You just have zero fucking idea what the point was, huh?
You didn’t address my points. And social justice activists treat anecdotes as “lived experience” that literally prove discrimination. Tell me, are they wrong in doing so?Wanna hear a guy worried about trends, son?https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/09/academics-are-really-really-worried-about-their-freedom/615724/ This year, the Heterodox Academy conducted an internal member survey of 445 academics. “Imagine expressing your views about a controversial issue while at work, at a time when faculty, staff, and/or other colleagues were present. To what extent would you worry about the following consequences?” To the hypothetical “My reputation would be tarnished,” 32.68 percent answered “very concerned” and 27.27 percent answered “extremely concerned.” To the hypothetical “My career would be hurt,” 24.75 percent answered “very concerned” and 28.68 percent answered “extremely concerned.” In other words, more than half the respondents consider expressing views beyond a certain consensus in an academic setting quite dangerous to their career trajectory.
Yeah, again, you have one actual troll sounding nonsensical alarms. The fact that you think John fucking McWhorter represents anything other than a cynical attempt to make money for John McWhorter by being the black guy who will happily validate white supremacists for money and attention makes me question whether you completed high school.I didn’t address your points, because they have fuckall to do with the thing you think you’re refuting. There aren’t enough hours in the day to waste arguing with unschooled morons.But, stupid: you think it would be hard to come up with other examples of people facing consequences, in many cases for things you disagree with, that go back to the fucking beginning of time? The thing you think is a new thing created by the left is LITERALLY THE BASIS OF HUMAN INTERACTIONS, IN EVERY DIRECTION AND POLITICAL IDEOLOGY, SINCE THE BEGINNING OF TIME. Beyond just seeming like a dude who has never gone to school or kissed a girl, you sound like a fucking alien getting outraged because he does not understand the fucking rudiments of human behavior and interaction. You ever hear about this man named Jesus? Cancelled by religious types who didn’t like his social justice message. And your mom was a terrible fucking homeschool teacher.
First of all, calm your tits. I care very little about your ad homs.“John fucking McWhorter represents anything other than a cynical attempt to make money for John McWhorter by being the black guy who will happily validate white supremacists for money”
And here comes the actual racism. You haven’t addressed any of his points. He’s a—lol!—black white supremacist! Wait, you think you’re actually morally superior to McWhorter? Holy fucking shit dude.And I frankly don’t believe you read the article.Academic freedom is in jeopardy and you don’t care, why, exactly? Professors self-censoring and being afraid to speak? Professors being fired, suspended, censored? I thought you were obsessed with college, bro.As for trends, enjoy: https://stephenporter.org/campus-cancel-culture-database-shows-over-300-professors-targeted-in-the-past-decade/Keep Jesus name out of your drooling mouth, son.
Peak Dunning-Kruger is wild.
Dude, you just said some racist and wildly emotional shit when presented with undeniable proof that professors self-censor and are being fired. Why don’t you care? Again, you’re a college guy, right?
During a time when governors are straight up banning books and the teaching of subjects and stifling free speech at schools and private businesses — and trying to do away with tenure and having university hiring and structural decisions be made by random ultraconservative goons — I have a hard time getting super upset at the idea that college professors sometimes get in trouble for saying terrible things to their students.Your people just “cancelled” reproductive rights and are actively trying to get rid of gay and trans people. And you’re fucking apoplectic that college professors are accountable to students?
My “people”? You don’t know me, son. I’m pro-life, dipshit, and I’ve worked with people from all walks of life, including trans people. oops.I do care that about everything you mentioned. Now, why don’t you care about the death of academic freedom? It’s not an either/or proposition. C’mon. Professors fired? Self-censoring? College man?
People who spend time in academia aren’t super concerned about the half dozen incidents that people who don’t but spend a lot of time on Facebook collect.Academic freedom is just fucking fine, outside of Florida.Every once in a while, there is a dispute. Sometimes it’s resolved one way; sometimes another. This is a thing that has been going on SINCE THE BEGINNING OF FUCKING TIME. The idea that sometimes a professor can do wrong is not that shocking to human beings who exist in the real world and not a 4chan echo chamber.Only fringe fucking psychos who have decided to devote themselves to outrage about nonexistent things are freaking the fuck out over nothing.
“People who spend time in academia aren’t super concerned about the half dozen incidents that people who don’t but spend a lot of time on Facebook collect.”I sent you a database of over a thousand incidents, asshat. You just don’t care about academic freedom. And you’re a racist. It’s a bummer.
Unless one has already wound themselves up and made this manufactured issue the totality of their identity, son, someone documenting a thousand times that students objected to their professors (in one of like 100 possible ways here, which range from the silly to the 100% legitimate) is not the smoking gun you think it is. All this shows is that students are empowered and standing up for themselves. Really kind of runs counter to that “leftist indoctrination” thing you guys also imagine happens at the campuses that you never visit. In a world in which Republicans have made it illegal for gay teachers to mention their spouses, the fact that sometimes, but usually not, professors face some kind of consequences for saying and doing terrible shit does not upset me. It’s not students, or the left, or “cancel culture” that is trying to do away with tenure or legislating what subjects can and can’t be taught in universities.How many decades are you people going to try that “reverse racism” thing before you realize that it never, ever, ever fucking works? Who was I being racist toward? It’s objectively true that McWhorter went from being an unknown linguist to a right wing celebrity once he realized that there was a huge demand for black people who preach anti-blackness. He’s not the only example; it’s a great lane for the useless and unpleasant (Candace Owen), terrible fucking rappers, influencers, etc. There has always been a market for this kind of behavior, and it isn’t remotely novel to the black community. You might also notice that McWhorter still has his fucking job.
Sigh. You haven’t even looked at the database. It is ALL leftists shutting down speakers, classes, professors, events, demanding texts be censored, asking for fellow students to be censored, demanding buildings be renamed (cough cough Orwell), demanding statues come down, calling for COMEDIANS to be banned, burning shit down, demanding SEGRAGATED HOUSING, CLASSES, AND GRADUATIONS…sounds like it’s right up your alley, actually. And they ARE asking for tenure to be destroyed for their enemies. Again, why don’t you care? Can you fucking concentrate and stop whatabouting about fucking Republicans? I’m not a republican, you sponge.Your were racist toward McWhorter, and now you’re being racist to Owens (jesus you made me defend her). You are calling them Uncle Toms, you fucking imbecile. Explain to me how that is not racist. You think the blacks are owned by Democrats, you spoon. And it’s not reverse racism. It’s just racism. Do I need to read from the dictionary? And you can be racist to anyone. No matter how many decades “you people” try to redefine racism to be privilege plus prejudice, 99% of humans disagree with you, and it’s damaged the left in ways you will never admit. Own it.Try to focus on one thing: Do you think segregated housing for students is racist? I think your answer would address ALL your bullshit. Just a yes or no will do.Can you do that? Catnip?
Who was I racist against, son? In what way? All I did was denounce the content of his motherfucking character. I didn’t call anyone an Uncle Tom. That was you. I didn’t say a fucking thing about blacks being owned by anyone, and I didn’t mention Democrats at all.For someone pretending to object to censorship etc., Jesus do you hate the fact that students have freedom of speech. Literally all of your complaints are people (with no particular power) DEMANDING things. How exactly are students complaining about bad professors, memorialized slaveowners, etc., categorically different from your massive complaint campaign?Which brings us back to our original point. You are pretending that PERFECTLY FUCKING NORMAL HUMAN BEHAVIOR, which has existed forever, which everyone does, which you are doing RIGHT FUCKING NOW, is some kind of terrifying, nefarious, and new conspiracy.You’re literally upset that people you don’t like with have free speech, and you’re framing them using their free speech as some kind of a threat to free speech. That’s what “cancel culture” is, as I said in the beginning: completely fucking nonsensical propagandist sleight of hand that is able to elicit uncontrollable outrage among STUPID AND UNEDUCATED ASSHOLES.
I’ve already answered this, oh one of zero attention: McWhorter and Owens. You called them Uncle Toms. Racist. And you think any black person who doesn’t toe the party line is selling “anti-blackness”, meaning you fundamentally think all blacks must think alike. Sponge.
I literally described what their jobs are. There’s an enormous diversity of views within the black community. Then you have people who literally define themselves as opposition. We don’t care for those people, but boy do you guys love them, so that’s cool.I don’t know who told you guys that your provocateurs are indemnified against criticism because of their skin color; probably the same person who told you that they had anything of value to say. But if you’re getting your information exclusively from trolls, accept that your information is fucking terrible.
“Then you have people who literally define themselves as opposition.”McWhorter and Owens literally define themselves as opposition? To what, black people? They LITERALLY define themselves? Why, because they say things you disagree with?
Um. Saying that they peddle anti-blackness is the equivalent of calling them uncle toms. you don’t think they can think for themselves, you fucking yogurt.Dude, they aren’t just demanding things, they are burning things down, censoring books, censoring professors, and segregating themselves. Perfectly normal behavior, right? Censoring fucking Darwin is free speech? Firing teachers is free speech? Arson? Segregated classes is free speech? Going after tenure is free speech? Is slander free speech, you fucking fork?Answer the fucking question: Is segregated student housing racist? Try.
Let me know when you guys decide if you want ideological diversity or to keep students from having opinions you don’t like, if you dislike racism when it affects people of color, if you want professors to have job security or not, if you think administrations should make curriculum decisions or not, etc. Sure as fuck seems like all of you jump from one side or another depending on whether you agree or disagree and then pretend they are inviolate principles. And I get why; this is convincing to white people who didn’t go to college, the only people you were pitching to anyway.The outlier examples of bad behavior from individuals on the left is still nowhere near the censorship and cancelling found in major bills being passed by Republican statehouses across the country right now. Isolated examples of courses being changed because of student objections are not scarier than a governor outlawing entire subjects of study or prohibiting the accurate teaching of American history. Florida Republican morons are trying to outlaw the entire fucking opposition party. While saying that cancel culture is a menace.You’re an absolute fucking clown. Enjoy your terrible life.
Holy Sheet. You cannot do it. You cannot condemn segregated fucking student housing.You are Scott Adams.I’m not a republican. lol. jesus christ. “keeping students from having opinions you don’t like”Again, like censorship, arson, segregation, and slander?You are a racist, partisan, braindead, racist (did I say that already) robot who supports censoring Darwin.gotta feel shitty.
Or, I’m not letting you bait me into changing the subject, again, after wasting too much time knocking down all your other false fucking premises.Go fuck yourself, Nazi Helen Lovejoy.
You knocked down shit. You refuse to condemn arson, censorship, slander, and racial segregation.
Oh noes students and universities I never have and never will attend are empowered!Oh noes sometimes people get in trouble for doing things.This has never happened before!Will someone please think of the whatever!
Yeah, I went to school 20 years ago, and students weren’t deplatforming speakers, censoring Darwin, burning down campus, and demanding segregated classes. Much empowerment, big improvement.
Seems legit.Everyone actually in school at the time is laughing at you.
Yeah, imagine a time without microaggressions, deplatforming, arson, safe spaces…we got fucked up, dude bro.
Are youuuuuu Canadian?
We don’t know you, but the fact that you identify simple toleration (“I’ve worked with people from all walks of life”) as a marker for political allegiance to the left, or at least enough to trollishly think that merely being tolerant means you should be tolerable yourself to people you think are rabidly leftist for thinking people acting like dipshits at work should be fired? It at least indicates that you accept right-leaning false premises as granted without much consideration as to how it makes you look. I mean, you’re literally “I have a trans friend”-ing not with an individual, but with trans people in general, and not even saying friend, but just “ people I’ve worked with”. Doing your job without going around punching members of various protected classes in the face isn’t the goddamned backpat you think it is, and acting like it is makes you look like a fool.
You’re also whatabouting a story of abuse on a film set (one you’d think you’d hop on as proof of the very leftist hypocrisy you’re presuming to expose instead of someone to defend) with an unrelated story of a guy who had an at-best extremely inconsiderate and contemptuous response to students asking for something. If “sorry, no” could have sufficed where smugly telling actual children off was proffered, yeah, he deserved to be fired. If anything, that he was reinstated is proof that tenure at government-run institutions protects assholes, not that the system somehow barely worked to protect some sort of First Amendment hero. As well, your double standards on the matter are clear: you retreat to the idea that the man who was put on 2 months leave over the summer needed psychological care because of how abusive his students were… while condemning their own request that this professor respect their psychological needs. It seems that who the snowflake is at any moment in time has less to do with any standard you’re applying, and simply whether you’ve decided to not like a particular person or not.
Assholes are not “legends”, and white people who retreat to misquoting MLK to shit on black people asking for things are almost always assholes. If this is news to you, well, that’s how it is. Do not look up to this man.
yeah, I’m fine with trans people.Not whatabouting anything. I literally brought up cases of cancel culture to commentors who were denying cancel culture exists. Had nothing to do with article. Thanks for playing.No, he was definitely protected by the First Amendment. The university was NOT on his side, sunshine. They would have canned his ass in a heartbeat if they could. Do you doubt it? They demanded he apologize and grovel. But I guess they were secretly assholes and on his side.And it was a perfect teachable moment. Unless you think we should judge students/people by race. He saw a shrink because a 20,000 strong mob of people threated to kill him. What a hypocritical snowflake, indeed. This man is your moral superior in every old fucking possible way.
“smugly telling actual children”why do you people insist that college students are children? it’s either a sop to get people to think of this *anti-racist* teacher as a big meanie, or infantilization. no wonder we’re fucked. he treated this student as an adult. tough shit.
Have you met 18 year olds? Like, actually talked to them and have to be around them? Sure, they’re far more interesting to talk to than, say, a 6-year-old nephew, and will certainly go on and on far less about Pokemon than that little kid. And yes, in the eyes of the law they are “adults”… well, except when it comes to buying alcohol (and tobacco in some states), or renting a car, or getting off their parents insurance. And, in fact, can be claimed as dependents by their parents after the age of 18 as well. And… actually, that does sound less and less like they’re truly adults in every sense of the word.
18 year olds (and 19, and 20…) are more mature than they were at 6, or 12, or maybe even 16, but there’s a word of difference, generally, between them and someone at 30 (like, say, a college professor). The decisions they make, and how they are judged, should be different from someone with another decade (or two, or three) on them.
With that said, you’re arguing first amendment rights and racism. The arguments above (which generally don’t agree with the students on all points) do note that the professor, as an acting member of the faculty staff, is expected to treat the customers — those students — with due respect. His email was way over that line. If you wrote something like that to a client in any other customer service setting, you would be fired. He was told to apologize. That hardly seems unjust.
The students, meanwhile, are students. They’re there because they’re still in their “learning phase” and have to figure things out before they’re fully adult in all aspects of the term. Just because they’re 18 doesn’t meant they know everything they should (clearly, since they’re still in school). They asked for something, they didn’t get it. The complaint was about how they were told no not that they were told no.
And, unrelated, all your protestations about how you’re a liberal and so forth stand contrary to everything in this thread you’re saying. Maybe take a step back, read it all over with a calm and collected mind, and try again.
18 year olds are adults. I had a fucking house when I was 20. You’re a teacher? You treat adults as children? No wonder we’re fucked. Never said I was on the left, bud. I used to be, until you people lost your fucking minds. Now I’m politically homeless. Or more accurately, I haven’t changed much. You lunatics have. Look, we disagree, okay? You think colleges should coddle students and ascribe to the “professor-as-daycare-attendant-ass-wiper” philosophy. I highly recommend this book. For Christ’s sake: https://www.thecoddling.com/You and the students are actually perpetuating the bad ideas they examine: “What doesn’t kill you makes you weaker; always trust your feelings; and life is a battle between good people and evil people.”just have a super day.
18
year olds are adults. I had a fucking house when I was 20. You’re a
teacher? You treat adults as children? No wonder we’re fucked.
Good for you? Sorry you had to be forced to grow up so fast. Sounds like that sucked.
Never
said I was on the left, bud. I used to be, until you people lost your
fucking minds. Now I’m politically homeless. Or more accurately, I
haven’t changed much. You lunatics have.
You actually did though. You said it above, yelling at others because they said you were Republican and Conservative and you vehemently yelled that you weren’t. We’re just going off what you said, “bud”.
Look, we disagree, okay? You think colleges should coddle students and ascribe to the “professor-as-daycare-attendant-ass-wiper” philosophy. I highly recommend this book. For Christ’s sake: https://www.thecoddling.com/
I actually don’t think anyone said that. We said that professors work for a business, the business expects them to deliver good customer service, and apparently that offends you. As does the notion that teenagers, as the customers, can ask for something in a class. I’m not sure you actually understand how capitalism works if this somehow angers you.
You and the students are actually perpetuating the bad ideas they examine: “What doesn’t kill you makes you weaker; always trust your feelings; and life is a battle between good people and evil people.”I mean… okay? This just came out of left field and it sounds like you’re just venting now. But hey, good for you. Let it out, “bud”.
just have a super day.Hopefully you do as well now that you got that off your chest. But just, as a suggestion: maybe go somewhere else to vent next time. You’re screaming into the void if you come here because, clearly, we don’t agree with you and we never will.
No, it was great. Adulthood is great. Apparently you think adolescence lasts until you’re 30? Sounds kind of pathetic. Let’s ignore the chaff: Your vision of college is chilling and precisely why I recommended a book on why colleges are failing students. Education shouldn’t be like fucking McDonald’s. Educators are (or at least should be) in charge. It’s not the educator’s job to make the student feel like it’s their home and they are their babysitters. Again, no wonder shit like this happens over Halloween costumes: Can you hear how the student *at YALE* screams about how the college should be a home? This mentality is poison. This is your mentality. Again, this was over HALLOWEEN COSTUMES. Listen to what she says: “It is not about creating an intellectual space.”The professor had to eventually resign.But sure, your model of academia is really serving the students well.
I’m never said any of the words you put into my mouth. This is, again, you screaming into the void without actually *reading* what the people around you are saying. You came here with an *agenda* and then get angry when the people around you, who clearly aren’t going to agree with you and make no bones about it, *for some reason don’t agree with you*. Again, the problem isn’t the people around you; the problem is you’re on the wrong site. Go somewhere else if you want to share these opinions and have people just blindly agree with what you’re saying.
To say my points again so maybe, this time, you actually read:
Colleges are *for profit institutions*. That’s what we, in layman terms, call a “business”. A business is in the habit of taking money from its customers (i.e., the students and/or their parents that are paying for it) for goods and services (i.e., classes and a degree). If the customers are unhappy, a business has to determine whether the customers are unhappy for cause and, if so, what can be done to solve the problem.
In this case, the students asked for something. *I have never said whether it was reasonable to ask for it or not*, and that’s the judgment of the teacher and the college leadership, should it rise to that level. The teacher *could have said* “no, I don’t feel that’s appropriate” and left it at that. From a customer service perspective that’s acceptable and it doesn’t, as you put it, “coddle” the students. “No, now let’s move on.”
That is *not* what the teacher did. The reason they were reprimanded and made to apologize is, in large part, because of the *way* they handled it. They sent a scathing, and very rude, reply to the request. You apparently think this kind of reply is acceptable, so here, let’s have an example. The next time you have a client ask for something, send them a response just as scathing and rudely worded as this professor’s reply, and make sure to cc your boss on it. Let’s see if you’re able to just skate by or if suddenly you’re told to apologize (or worse). We’ll see how that goes for you.That’s the argument I’m making, and that many others in this thread have made. But, again, you have some other agenda that you want to argue about.As for when I thin people “grow up”, you again put words in my mouth. I said that they aren’t the same at 18, or 19, or 20 as they will be at 30. They’re still finding themselves. They aren’t entirely children anymore, but as far as biology, as well as the eyes of the law itself, they aren’t entirely adults either. I’m sorry actual scientific and legal facts bother you.And good for you that you were able to move out on your own and buy a house at 20. How long ago was that?
You want to go easy on these illiberal students, and justify it by saying that colleges are businesses, no? “a business has to determine whether the customers are unhappy for cause and, if so, what can be done to solve the problem.”Again, you are treating education like McDonald’s. You are part of the problem.
https://nypost.com/2022/10/20/nyu-professor-fired-for-being-too-hard-said-colleges-coddle-students-for-tuition-money/Would you agree with the students in this case? “Students need to develop the ability to take responsibility for failure,” he wrote. “If they continue to deflect blame, they will never grow… Failure should become a classic ‘teachable moment.’” “Deans must learn to not coddle students for the sake of tuition and apply a little tough love,” Jones wrote. “They must join the community in times of conflict to generate those teachable moments.”
So your example to prove your case is an article that only gets the professor’s perspective, and no one else’s, only uses him as a source, and comes from a known conservative newspaper?
Yeah, that’s not a credible source.
And colleges are a business. If your argument is that colleges shouldn’t be a business, I’m on board with that thought, but something tells me it’s for the opposite reason you have.
Sigh. Attacking source logical fallacy. How are the facts in dispute? Was or wasn’t a petition to have him fired for being too difficult circulated?
Here’s NBC:https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/nyu-professor-fired-students-complained-grades-bad-sounds-rcna51126Happy?“… had been dismissed from his position after 82 of his 350 students signed a petition complaining about his class”
That’s not a source. That’s an opinion piece. You want me to take your argument seriously, yes? So far, to back that up, you’ve provided a rant from the professor, yelling at the kids that fired him, and then a rant from another person yelling about the firing. Opinions and editorials aren’t allowed in debate any more than disproven sources. If you want people to care about your argument you actually have to back it up with facts, not feelings.When I mention things to you I back it up with facts. So far, all you’ve done is yell, go off your gut, share opinion pieces, and ignore anything people raise that you don’t agree with. That’s not a debate, that’s an old man yelling at kids to get off his lawn.This isn’t your lawn.
Fyi, I have looked at the books and articles you mentioned. The Coddling is from a former ACLU writer whose other credits include working on a comedy special about how comedians are being “cancelled” (which, no) and writing for a paper so small that it doesn’t even show up on anthe AllSides media bias listing.
The College Fix is a far right media group, and the article you linked to referencing it was an opinion piece.
FIRE is deeply associated with right wing think tanks, and is considered a puppet of them as well.
The Atlantic is a left-of-center media group, so good on ya there, but you linked again to an editorial, so that’s not a proper source either.
Seriously, I could go on. It took me five minutes to research all of this. How long did you spend looking up your sources?
Maitland Jones Jr., 84, was fired from New York University in August after 82 of his 350 students signed a petition against himTwo months ago in August, former organic chemistry professor Maitland Jones Jr, 84, was fired by the university after a petition signed by 82 of his 350 students cited his teaching methods and course outline as reasons for their poor grades.‘We are very concerned about our scores, and find that they are not an accurate reflection of the time and effort put into this class,’ the petition said, according to a New York Times report.https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11345697/NYU-professor-fired-students-said-class-hard-urges-tough-love-college.html The firing of a New York University (NYU) professor who was the subject of a petition from students who said his class was too hard continues to stoke controversy, as some parents and teachers say the incident points to a lowering of academic standards Jones, 84, received a message from the dean of science in August terminating his contract, the New York Times reported. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/oct/06/nyu-professor-fired-maitland-jones-jr-student-petition Did. This. Happen?
New York Times:https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/03/us/nyu-organic-chemistry-petition.html?searchResultPosition=5 “I think this petition was written more out of unhappiness with exam scores than an actual feeling of being treated unfairly,” wrote Mr. Benslimane, now a Ph.D. student at Harvard. “I have noticed that many of the students who consistently complained about the class did not use the resources we afforded to them.” In the field of organic chemistry, Maitland Jones Jr. has a storied reputation. He taught the subject for decades, first at Princeton and then at New York University, and wrote an influential textbook. He received awards for his teaching, as well as recognition as one of N.Y.U.’s coolest professors.But last spring, as the campus emerged from pandemic restrictions, 82 of his 350 students signed a petition against him.Students said the high-stakes course — notorious for ending many a dream of medical school — was too hard, blaming Dr. Jones for their poor test scores.The professor defended his standards. But just before the start of the fall semester, university deans terminated Dr. Jones’s contract.
“The Coddling is from a former ACLU writer whose other credits include working on a comedy special about how comedians are being “cancelled” (which, no) and writing for a paper so small that it doesn’t even show up on anthe AllSides media bias listing.”Irrelevant. How are the concepts presented wrong.“The College Fix is a far right media group, and the article you linked to referencing it was an opinion piece.”Irrelevant. Again, you are attacking the source, not the concepts. How are the concepts wrong?“FIRE is deeply associated with right wing think tanks, and is considered a puppet of them as well.”Irrelevant.I could do the same against every liberal source presented to me, but I don’t. I actually consider the IDEAS, because to dismiss the ideas based on the source is a fucking logical fallacy.Again, you’re a teacher?
Media bias does matter because it calls into question the credibility of the source. What is the intent behind the article or book they’re writing? Is there an intent? What are they trying to prove. A book like “The Coddling” is, specifically, an argument made, and when the sources come from one side or the other, the intent has to be called into question. I would do the same with a liberal writer making the same argument. I tend to gravitate towards neutral sources for my actual news because I want the unvarnished truth so I can make up my own mind on matters; if I can’t trust the source, I can’t trust the “news” they perpetuate.
The Daily Mail article you posted is questionable at best. It comes from a hard right source and devotes 90% of its column width to the professor’s option, only nodding towards NYU’s statement at the end. NYU’s statement sounds pretty standard: “we found that, as a teacher, he wasn’t teaching.” That sounds like an issue with the professor, from their perspective.
The Guardian article is better, both because it’s at least a source from the other side (left-of-center) and because they have interviews from more than just the professor. With that said, they don’t get more out of the university than the other statement, nor do they have actual interviews with anyone else on the faculty privy to the situation, and all they have “from the students” is their petition. While it has information it fails to meet the criteria for a “well researched source”.
The same can, mostly, be said for the NYT article you shared. The professor is noted, as are his opinions, the NYU statement is used, and there are parent and teacher groups quoted but, notably, those are also opinions. “We worry about what this spells for our children.”
Sure, okay. I get their perspective. And as a teacher, would I be worried if my students felt I was a terrible teacher? Yeah.
Here’s the thing, though. In every class I took in my college career I had a chance to voice my opinion. Teacher reviews were part of the process, and they happened at the end of every semester, like clockwork. Had been for years before I got there (two decades ago) and have been ever since. If you’re worried that “students can complain about their teachers unfairly”, sorry to tell you that’s always been the case.
The thing these articles don’t point out, largely because NYU isn’t detailing it, is how many other complaints were there about the professor? Was there a history of this before COVID (when, clearly, it came to a head)? Did the university look into the matter further? Was the petition the only source they used to fire him? I can’t say either way because the articles don’t tell us, but that’s a lot of information not on the table we could actually use to evaluate this clearly and properly. I’m not willing to judge, either way, on the matter until I have all the information. You clearly are, and that’s a key difference right there.
Was the professor fired because (a) his students complained and (b) NYU listened? Yes. I will agree that happened.
Is that the whole story? Not even close.
ADDENDUM: After posting I found this opinion piece which, yes, is opinion. It also goes through all the arguments for and against all perspectives here and I found it to be a much more thought provoking and detailed analysis of what you’re, I think, trying to say without so much screaming about how “Zoomers today are entitled.” It’s worth reading.
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2022/10/nyu-professor-fired-cancel-culture-doctor-shortage.html
Holy Sheet, thanks for the article, but the title and tone are waaaaaaaay more biased than anything I sent. Jesus. But I read it. I fundamentally disagree. I want my doctor to have been through hell before getting to me with a scalpel, and the idea of lowering standards in response is fucking nuts. “It’s not exactly hard to believe that an 84-year-old might not be the most engaging and accessible instructor for students who were born in 2004.”Total bullshit. He was “one of the coolest” professors and had a long and storied career according to the Times. “In an email to Jones explaining why the university decided to let students retroactively withdraw from the class that they had failed (!), the NYU chemistry department’s director of undergraduate studies wrote that the plan would “extend a gentle but firm hand to the students and those who pay the tuition bills.” I didn’t know this. They were allowed to retroactively withdraw!? That’s the most coddlingest thing that has ever coddled. Unthinkable when I was in school. Look, I highly recommend The Coddling of the American Mind. I know you think its authors are borderline jokes, but just check this out:
So you missed the point where I acknowledged it was an opinion piece and that it didn’t clearly align with you. I simply threw you a bone. But hey, you don’t like it, that’s fine.
The simple fact is that what you’re arguing is pure opinion. You don’t like what went on. Sure, okay. You think the next generation is, as you put it, “coddled”. Okay, sure, you think that. You want people here to acknowledge your opinion on the matter. Okay, you’re acknowledged. I’ve read everything you posted, I see what you’re saying. I understand the point you’re trying to make.
But, you then want people here to agree with you, and that’s where your whole discourse falls down.This is why I talked to you about sources and told you that you need to back up your opinions with facts. In a debate, if you want to prove a point, you have to have facts, not feelings. You’ve got feelings in spades, but you don’t have the facts to back up anything, not to the point where you could make a case to the opposing side. Nothing you’ve said, this whole time, has convinced anyone here, so shouting it over and over again isn’t going to change that at all.You came here with an agenda. Clearly. You saw an article on the AV Club you didn’t agree with and you felt now was the time to drop your entire political agenda on everyone here. The part you clearly didn’t catch, though, was this is The AV Club. As I’ve noted in another comment section here on this site, this is a blog dedicated, in large part, to celebrity gossip. This is not a proper political forum. Is that partially the fault of the AV Club? Sure. They raised the topic, but no one should expect them to be able to handle politics with grace and nuance. My apologies to the editors here, but no one expects them to be Pulitzer Prize willing journalists. They cover Jackass and The Bachelor, not CSPAN.If you goal was to make your point, you made it. If you wanted to convert people, you failed. If you want people to agree with you, go somewhere else, probably some Alt-Right channel alreaady primed to agree with everything you said.You strike me as either (a) a very old and very angry Boomer, (b) an MRA douchebag, or (c) a Russian troll, but whatever you are this isn’t the right forum for you. Find someplace else if you have an agenda to make.
Jesus Christ, I specifically thanked you for the article and acknowledged it was an opinion peace. I was being polite. Frankly: Fuck you. Why this triggered you so hard is something you’ll have to deal with in therapy. Now I really feel sorry for your fucking students, you passive aggressive cunt. Actually, you’re not passive, you’re an aggressive cunt. You’re obviously failing them if you treat them as customers, as I gently attested to by sharing a very staid video outlining why your philosophy is making students weak. Go Fuck Your Father, You Fucking Failure. You are part of the problem.I’m 43, you cunt. Which means we were probably in school at the same time. When I was studying statistics, I had to work two jobs and deal with dying parents, and my professors did. Not. Give. A. Fuck. And I’m glad they didn’t, because I’m apparently more concerned with the state of academia than you. If you want to ignore a massive crisis that the ENTIRE FUCKING NATION NOTICES, that’s on you, you smegma.To quote Bukowski, drink piss for eternity.
Considering the language you’re using, I think there is one of us triggered, but it’s clearly not me. So you had it bad. That sucks for you. Except, did you? Because you also said it was the best time of your life, that you bought a house when you were twenty, and so many other contradictory facts that your whole back story sounds made up. Perhaps everything you said was true, but that’s the thing about the internet: how do you prove any of it? You’re one person, not the whole of your generation. And, clearly, you don’t speak for your generation as we come from the same age group and I disagree with everything you say.I do it in a clam and collected manner, though, so… there’s that.
You accused me of being a Russian troll, you lunatic. A very calm and collected person indeed.
“So you had it bad.”Have I complained? I said am GRATEFUL my professors held me to account.“Except, did you? Because you also said it was the best time of your life, that you bought a house when you were twenty, and so many other contradictory facts that your whole back story sounds made up.”Yes, in my twenties I lost my parents, fell in love and bought a house, and went to college. Science fiction, right? You just can’t fathom it because you think adolescence lasts until you’re 30.Face it, the entire goddamn country thinks something has gone haywire on campus and that students are weak. You think that’s fine. I don’t.The end.
This is your argument. You’ve said it repeatedly. Do you have anything new to add to this dialogue?
Just that’s it’s not nice this time of year in Moscow, and you infantilize your students.Oh, and I like how you think it is “alt right” to notice these trends. Again, you are a steady hand.
Cool. Enjoy your opinions.
Sweet. Enjoy failing the next generation, professor.
Yeah, I see no problems here, professor:“I went to college to learn from my professors and peers. I welcomed an environment that champions intellectual diversity and rigorous disagreement. Instead, my college experience has been defined by strict ideological conformity. Students of all political persuasions hold back — in class discussions, in friendly conversations, on social media — from saying what we really think. Even as a liberal who has attended abortion rights demonstrations and writing about racism, I sometimes feel afraid to fully speak my mind.In the classroom, backlash for unpopular opinions is so commonplace that many students have stopped voicing them, sometimes if they don’t censor themselves. According to a 2021 administered by College Pulse of over 37,000 students at 159 colleges, 80 percent of students self-censor at least some of the time. Forty-eight percent of undergraduate students described themselves as “somewhat uncomfortable” or “very uncomfortable” with expressing their views on a controversial topic in the classroom. At U.Va., 57 percent of those surveyed feel that way.”https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/07/opinion/campus-speech-cancel-culture.html“The research also finds that faculty members are self-censoring at higher rates. In 1955, at the end of the second Red Scare after World War II during the age of McCarthy and deep anti-communist fear, 9 percent of social scientists said they toned down their writing for fear of causing controversy. Today, 25 percent say they’re very or extremely likely to self-censor their writing in academic publications.More than half of faculty—52 percent—say they’re afraid they’ll lose their job or reputation over a misunderstanding of something they said or did, or because someone posted something from their past online. While almost three-quarters of conservative faculty expressed this year, 40 percent of even liberal faculty agree. That’s staggering: two in five professors who are a part of the prevailing orthodoxy on campus are fearful of losing their jobs over a misunderstanding.”
Jesus, are you still here? That was a week ago man. Move the fuck on.
Don’t forget removing slavery from history books. They’re fucking gonna teach like Pocahontas. The cartoon. No he didn’t rape and pillage her village, they fell in LOVEEE singing is proof of that!
As an actual adjunct professor at an actual college that actually has had to deal with some fantastic race-baiting dipshittery in his colleagues, let me please invite you to shut the fuck up.A suggestion from a student to be considerate of their fellow students’ potential anxiety at a time of high identity anxiety accompanied by race-based violence triggers was met with some real passive-aggressive dismissal. That is not a good faith response to a student. None of what that guy self-reportedly said to his student was okay. It was SOP for a pretentious asshat and the worst kind of grandstanding by an academic. Those are the colleagues I actively dislike. They make the rest of us look bad.(Which is not to say that I’m a perfect communicator with my students. And I HAVE had concerns of my own about how my imperfect communication might be used against me. But that’s the risk anyone takes as a professional communicator.)(Also, I hate to break it to you but higher education, even at state schools, IS a marketplace. Those students are paying clients. You do actually owe them a measure of consideration as a service provider.)
“A suggestion from a student to be considerate of their fellow students’ potential anxiety at a time of high identity anxiety accompanied by race-based violence triggers was met with some real passive-aggressive dismissal”A suggestion for ILLEGAL DISCRIMINATION BASED ON RACE was met with considered teachable moment. I weep for your students.
You can CapsLock those words all you want, it doesn’t make them any more convincing. The student requested a “No Harm” exam *for the entire class*, which is a reasonable middle ground between no consideration at all for a potentially turbulent situation and asking for individual grade adjustments based on discriminatory criteria. And the professor’s response was not to point that student to discrimination law or suggest that they contact someone in admin about Title VI rights or anything substantively helpful. Instead, he wrote “Are there any students that may be of mixed parentage, such as half black half-Asian? What do you suggest I do with respect to them? A full concession or just half? Also, do you have any idea if any students are from Minneapolis? I assume that they are probably especially devastated as well. I am thinking that a white student from there might possibly be even more devastated by this, especially because some might think that they’re racist even if they are not.”What is the teachable moment in that email? What part of that isn’t a fun coded “Fuck off” to that student? And hoo boy, what a look it is to suggest that a white citizen of Minneapolis might be “more devastated” by the aftermath of the George Floyd murder than a black student. This prof can get fucked.Weep for my students until your ducts run dry, chucklehead. I’ll have their back over some ivory tower shitheel who cares more about the letter of the law than the spirit.
‘“The incident began last year when a non-Black student wrote an email to Klein, asking him to grade Black students with greater “leniency” because they are coping with the death of George Floyd and civil unrest.”’The student DID NOT (oops, didn’t mean to trigger with the caps lock) ask for a no harm exam for the entire class. He asked for leniency for black students. Hence, the professor’s response.And that’s the teachable moment: Do not treat students differently based on race. Duh. Again: that’s illegal, professor. You care more about racially discriminating against students than the letter of the law? You got their back by treating them like children? Allow me to buy you a shiny apple.
Yeah, I tend to treat children like children. Or were you under the impression that college students are worldly thirtysomethings?Non-traditional students aside, of course.You know what else is a teachable moment? Fuck around and find out, to quote the Bard. This professor wrote a paragraph of the most duck-fucking passive-aggressive twaddle and he rightly got suspended for being an asshole.But whatever. This is some classic white aggrievement horseshit that doesn’t really merit the time or attention I’ve given to it. More the fool me, eh?Stick your apple up your ass and call it macaroni.
Holy fuck. They are adults. You’re a teacher? College students are *adults*, FFS. I was an adult at 18. No wonder academia is fucked. You think of them as children?You mean the passive aggressive letter in which he absolutely obliterated racism and quoted MLK? That letter? And he wasn’t suspended because of the letter, he was suspended because the little bitch of student went after him with a mob. Where do you teach? For the safety of your students, I demand to know.
I’m just going to post this absolute legend’s response to being asked to give black students special treatment. which again, he couldn’t do. because it’s illegal:“Thanks for your suggestion in your email below that I give black students special treatment, given the tragedy in Minnesota. Do you know the names of the classmates that are black? How can I identify them since we’ve been having online classes only? Are there any students that may be of mixed parentage, such as half black-half Asian? What do you suggest I do with respect to them? A full concession or just half? Also, do you have any idea if any students are from Minneapolis? I assume that they probably are especially devastated as well. I am thinking that a white student from there might be possibly even more devastated by this, especially because some might think that they’re racist even if they are not. My TA is from Minneapolis, so if you don’t know, I can probably ask her. Can you guide me on how you think I should achieve a “no-harm” outcome since our sole course grade is from a final exam only? One last thing strikes me: Remember that MLK famously said that people should not be evaluated based on the “color of their skin.” Do you think that your request would run afoul of MLK’s admonition? Thanks, G. Klein”Absolutely savage takedown of identity politics. An absolute legend.
So then postpone the final for everyone? Problem. solved.
Why? Why postpone it? Because of their fucking feelings? Doe your boss allow you to postpone work over your fucking feelings?
Yes, people take mental health days all the goddamn time. My work actively promotes it because they are not dickbags. And why not let the students explain why his email was so wrong“Given his background in ethics and liability, one would expect Professor Klein to hold himself to a higher social standard, especially given his position as a steward within higher education. However, his response to students was inappropriate, tone-deaf, and highly insensitive. The killing of George Floyd displayed a brutality that was so casual and so cruel, it reflected an utter dehumanization of Black life. It is understandable, then, that students nationwide – especially Black students – are struggling to focus on their educations when there is massive sociopolitical unrest that concerns both them and the future of their plight in this country.Professor Klein’s blatant lack of empathy and unwillingness to accommodate his students during a time of protests speaks to his apathetic stance on the matter. His suggestion that a student with one black and one asian parent should only be accommodated half as much as a black student is a preposterously racist notion. Furthermore, his claim that a white student from Minneapolis “might possibly be even more devastated […] because some might think that they’re racist” puts into perspective his ignorance, his bias, and his gross inability to comprehend the gravity of the systematic violence, discrimination, and fear experienced by Black people in this country.”
Well, lucky you.The students feeeeelings are irrelevant. The professor cannot legally discriminate by race. Do you understand? It’s an impossible demand. And a racist one, too.And again, all the professor did was gloriously point out that the student is judging people by race. This student’s…drivel entirely missed the point, and he unleased a 20,000 strong online mob against the professor for NOT discriminating. Illegally. For not violating MLK’s vision, which the professor, again, absolutely crushed in explaining. “His suggestion that a student with one black and one asian parent should only be accommodated half as much as a black student is a preposterously racist notion.”See, this student failed reading comprehension and the point. He DEFINITELY should stay in class. The professor was pointing out the absurdity of judging students by race to determine who would have to finish the class. Would half-blacks count? Half-Asians? Do you see the problem in judging people this way?Absolute legend.
The issue is not that he refused to discriminate by race. The issue is that he sent a legendarily shitty and racist email in response to their request. I taught college for over 20 years and got all kinds of requests from students from reasonable to completely, wildly, unreasonable. And every single time, I answered in a calm, professional manner because that the fucking job. He was responding to students who, while making a request that I may not have been able to comply with, I would at least be able to empathize and discuss the situation with. Student feelings are very important, which is made very clear to instructors. We have training on dealing with student trauma and getting to them to counseling when needed. This does not mean granting their every request. It means dealing with them calmly and professionally. His email was completely off the charts unprofessional. That why he was put on leave for … two months over the summer break when he wouldn’t have been under his teaching contract anyway.
How, precisely, was his email racist? Go ahead, enlighten me. The entire point was NOT to judge people based on race, no?
The students explained it quite handily in the petition. And again, it’s not about him refusing to judge people based on race. It’s about his awful unprofessional email in reponse to student request. As an instructor, it’s up to you to be calm, professional, and respectful. There are about 100 better ways to handle students requests, both reasonable and unreasonable. As I said, I repsonded to unreasonable student requests all the time in a calm, respectful, non-mocking manner. Literally thousands of instructors do it every single goddamn day. Even without the horrific murder of George Floyd coming into it, this guy is just straight up bad at his job.
the students completely missed the fucking point. when the professor asked how, say, a half-black student should be treated, he was (again) illustrating that it is immoral to judge people this way. the students took him LITERALLY, because they are emotion-driven morons, whom you yourself view as children.and fuck the riots. the kids take the exam, period, is a perfectly professional way to teach the class.how would you answer his questions, huh? what would the professor do for white students? half-whites? half-black? asians? what would you do? you wouldn’t teach anit-racism?
I would have responded professionally, calmly, empathetically and without belittling their valid emotional respose that takes place in to context of their life time in a racist society. Which, I might add, was taking place in the middle of a pandemic. As the students themselves have said in interviews, if he had simply and politely said no, there would be no issue whatsoever. It was his belittling, insensitive, and tone deaf remarks that got him a whopping two months off from work that he would have had off anyway as a lecturer. The fact that you choose this unprofessional asswipe as a cause celebre show how transparently hollow the entire clown show of cancel culture boogeymen is.
Gee, you’re really concerned about academic freedom, huh? You must be really worried about this:https://www.theguardian.com/books/2023/feb/09/ron-desantis-florida-education-censorship
He wasn’t put on leave cause he broke the law. He was put on leave cause he wrote a wildly disrespectful email in response to the request to postpone the final exam (which was worth 100% of the class mark – terrible, terrible pedagogy). Please stop stirring up shit. https://www.cbsnews.com/losangeles/news/ucla-professor-on-leave-gordon-klein/
It wasn’t a “wildly disrepectful email.” it was a lesson in not defining people by race, which he couldn’t even legally do. So in response to a racist, illegal request, he educated the shit out of that brat. Please stop spreading racism.
That’s interesting. I mean he technically didn’t do the job he was supposed to. It’s kinda like reparations. But nothing happened to the kids or in the school. He shouldn’t have been punished for sure.
There are too many people who think that “cancel culture” only is something that happens to famous people, and not something that can also easily happen to average folks. Whenever you see someone say “it’s not real, look Louis CK still sells stadiums!” it makes me think that they don’t care about average people at all, because yes while Louis CK can still do his job, that truck driver who was mistakenly “cancelled” for giving the “OK” sign and called a racist now can’t get hired anymore.
I’m most concerned with cancel culture on campus, which of course these people say a) isn’t happening and/or b) if it is happening, it’s a good thing.
Yep. Fucking whiners who are mad that they can’t be utter shitheads *AND* drink deeply from the well of positive online validation.These folks would’ve hated what happened to people who insulted the king or practiced a banned religion in years past.
Hey, I’m a terrible person who DID go to college! There are lots of terrible people who went to college!
Agreed.
Well I just say it cause more people will know wtf im talking about
Yo, you still think this is empowerment and justified?“I went to college to learn from my professors and peers. I welcomed an environment that champions intellectual diversity and rigorous disagreement. Instead, my college experience has been defined by strict ideological conformity. Students of all political persuasions hold back — in class discussions, in friendly conversations, on social media — from saying what we really think. Even as a liberal who has attended abortion rights demonstrations and written about racism, I sometimes feel afraid to fully speak my mind.In the classroom, backlash for unpopular opinions is so commonplace that many students have stopped voicing them, sometimes if they don’t censor themselves. According to a 2021 administered by College Pulse of over 37,000 students at 159 colleges, 80 percent of students self-censor at least some of the time. Forty-eight percent of undergraduate students described themselves as “somewhat uncomfortable” or “very uncomfortable” with expressing their views on a controversial topic in the classroom. At U.Va., 57 percent of those surveyed feel that way.”https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/07/opinion/campus-speech-cancel-culture.html“The research also finds that faculty members are self-censoring at higher rates. In 1955, at the end of the second Red Scare after World War II during the age of McCarthy and deep anti-communist fear, 9 percent of social scientists said they toned down their writing for fear of causing controversy. Today, 25 percent say they’re very or extremely likely to self-censor their writing in academic publications.More than half of faculty—52 percent—say they’re afraid they’ll lose their job or reputation over a misunderstanding of something they said or did, or because someone posted something from their past online. While almost three-quarters of conservative faculty expressed this year, 40 percent of even liberal faculty agree. That’s staggering: two in five professors who are a part of the prevailing orthodoxy on campus are fearful of losing their jobs over a misunderstanding.”https://reason.com/2023/02/28/40-percent-of-liberal-professors-are-afraid-theyll-lose-their-jobs-over-a-misunderstanding/Everything’s good, right? No cancelling, kid?
This moronic take again…
So, somebody does some truly reproachable and wrong thing, suffer the consequences for it – which frequently isn’t even the case, since these fuckers keep getting huge public platforms and millions of dollars! – and that’s somehow “cancel culture”? Good to know. Let’s inform every convicted person that they have been victims of “cancel culture”…
Everybody working for The Weekend, huh.
You want a piece a’ my HAAAAAAAHT?
I mean, it’s The freakin’ Weekend
You guys are all spelling it wrong
I mean, everyone’s watching, to see what he will do. And everyone is definitely looking at him.
After this show drops, everyone will be working EXCEPT The Weeknd.
None of those anonymous sources from the show described or laid out their stories as a description of a “toxic workplace” which wasn’t the point of them speaking out. Those sources have taken issue with the narrative sexploitation that Sam Levinson added to the show, calling it a “rape fantasy” which could easily be a hypocritical interpretation of the subject matter. I wouldn’t even call the article “incendiary” because nothing described comes anywhere close to pushing the envelope in the realms of sexual violence in Hollywood film. Hell, 50 Shades of Gray could be described as “torture porn” to quite a number of people, even though the movies are far less raunchy than the books.IMO, the claims are seemingly over-sensationalized and somewhat prudish. And y’all gotta stop calling this story a “bombshell” or “incendiary” report, because all that’s doing is feeding into the overly dramatic sensationalism of something that will probably be more tame than American Psycho (1999). That will likely just lead to more intrigue and interest, especially in an age when violent choking pornography and incest step-fantasy porn are more popular than ever—even with the ladies.So basically… *yawn*
Nah Sam Levinson is a creep
I agree with you on a lot of this and can use Euphoria as an example. The amount of crazy sex and drug use on that show is mind blowing. However, it also boasts some really great writing and acting. I think the biggest difference is that the actors from Euphoria have said they are treated really well on set and they never feel exploited. HBO somewhat owned up to some of the allegations about The Idol, but really, who knows? As for The Weeknd, I think he’s a tool. Ever since he cried about not being nominated for The Grammy’s I lost all respect for him. I loathe artists crying about not getting awards. His reward is in his bank account so cry to someone else. I thought his response to this was flippant and disregarded the fact that maybe some women on the show did feel exploited. Ultimate, this will most likely be tamer than Euphoria and American Psycho, but his response makes me like him even less.
The Weeknd has deemed Rolling Stone “irrelevant”How observnt of him.
That clip…woof. What’s worse, the shitty hair or the shitty line reading?
the only correct response is to repost Rich’s iconic takedown of The Weeknd via his own lyrics
https://defamer.gawker.com/do-not-fuck-the-weeknd-1728337823
Cancel culture is a far right concept. No woman, you can’t control your body, no schools you can’t learn about how we killed the American Indians stole their land and used slaves to build railroads. Sorry your African American or a woman so your ability to vote is cancelled, sorry Floridians you voted that Felons can vote but we cancelled that too. Oh and don’t get me started on them being pedos and snowflakes.