Thor: Love And Thunder trades on Chris Hemsworth’s charm, and tests Taika Waititi’s
Even with Natalie Portman's biceps and the best villain since Killmonger, the hero's latest adventure takes a while to get going
Film Reviews Thor
If Taika Waititi is in imminent danger of overexposure, he’s mitigated the coming backlash (thus far, anyway) by delivering one project after another that lives up to, or exceeds, the expectations of its intended audience. Thor: Love And Thunder revisits the cheeky, sentimental tone of the nearly universally beloved Thor: Ragnarok, and propels its eponymous hero into new adventures that bring full circle a journey that started with the very first, much-less-beloved Thor back in 2011.
Natalie Portman and (especially) Christian Bale contribute more than enough capital-A acting bona fides to lend deeper emotional dimensions to Waititi’s loose, occasionally too-cheerful but always visually adventuresome adaptation of Jason Aaron’s stint on the Mighty Thor comic, in which (among other things) Portman’s Jane Foster gains the hero’s powers. Meanwhile, Chris Hemsworth continues to refine his portrayal of the indefatigably confident, well-meaning himbo as he faces a post-Avengers: Endgame identity crisis and works through the residue of a number of past relationships.
Narrated like an irreverent epic poem by his dim-witted gladiator pal Korg (Waititi), Thor remains depressed after the events of the last Avengers, shedding his mead-filled belly to join the Guardians of the Galaxy on intergalactic distress calls, but largely going through the motions of playing a hero. When Star-Lord (Chris Pratt) encourages him to visit his few remaining loved ones in order to center himself, Thor and Korg travel to New Asgard, where Valkyrie (Tessa Thompson) is fighting these days mostly against small-government bureaucracy—at least until Gorr the God Butcher (Bale), a grieving father turned would-be executioner of the multiverse’s deities, arrives to kidnap the town’s children.
The two of them race to stop Gorr, and in the heat of battle receive unexpected assistance from Jane, who harnessed the broken pieces of Thor’s hammer, Mjolnir, in order to become a superhero in her own right. But with New Asgard’s children in peril, Thor and his team decide to make an appeal for help to Zeus (Russell Crowe) and his callous, all-powerful counterparts. In the process, they discover a much bigger threat looming against the gods of all the known worlds, when they realize that Gorr seeks control of Thor’s rainbow bridge in order to connect with an even more powerful being that potentially holds the ability to grant his murderous wish.
While it’s a net positive that Marvel has loosened its stranglehold on the formulas and necessary components of its films, allowing for exactly the kinds of idiosyncrasies that resonate most strongly with audiences, Waititi working without limitations does not serve the film unambiguously well. In particular, the first hour or so—the plot grinding into motion—feels like a bit of a slog, precisely because the filmmaker’s cutesy, irreverent wit feels so labored while cushioning its necessary machinery. There’s a painful absence of “showing, not telling” throughout the whole movie, but maneuvering the characters into place while trying to be “fun” is a challenge that Waititi doesn’t quite surmount. (To wit, for a premiere-night audience seemingly primed to lap up everything Marvel served them, there was a conspicuous lack of enthusiasm during these set-up sequences in the screening that I attended.) The fact that during this time, Waititi plays “Welcome To The Jungle,” one of the most over-used musical cues in modern movie history, exemplifies its comparatively flaccid energy.
And yet, once Crowe shows up in “Omnipotent City” as Zeus—the god of gods—in a gilded palace occupied by deities for every conceivable species, culture, and cause (including, hilariously, bao buns), Love And Thunder finds its footing, and then some. Festooned in a comically oversized Greek accent and golden breastplate, and surrounded by comely “Zeusettes,” as they’re listed in the end credits, Crowe gives the role exactly as much buffoonish authority as it, and the film, needs. By contrast, Gorr becomes increasingly terrifying as the powers of his vengeance-fueled sword continue to poison his anguished soul. It’s that juxtaposition that rights the film’s balance of humor and drama swirling around Thor and Jane as they reconcile their past, explore their divergent presents, and decide if they can build a future together.
Bale is a harrowing, intensely rooted opposite to Crowe in terms of his performance, and he elevates and legitimizes what has become an understandable but tiresome impulse to make villains as sympathetic as their heroic counterparts. In fact, Gorr is easily the most interesting and sympathetic Marvel adversary since Michael B. Jordan’s Killmonger in Black Panther. That Bale seems to relish the opportunity to absolutely terrify his child captives in the role only makes Gorr more entertaining to watch and invest in.
Despite Sam Raimi’s many accomplishments with Doctor Strange And The Multiverse Of Madness—up to and including having Strange fight the film’s final battle using his decomposing corpse, draped in a cloak of shrieking souls—Waititi manages to outpace him with distinctive imagery that may disturb and upset some viewers expecting only Thor’s effervescent brawn. Notwithstanding the serpents and spider-like monsters that climb out of the shadows to do Gorr’s bidding, a pivotal fight takes place on a dusty, color-drained orb rendering everything black and white, and the villain’s repeated emergence and recession into darkness feels unsettling every time, especially with Bale’s eyes glowing a hollow, ominous amber.
Portman delivers the goods as “The Mighty Thor,” kicking ass alongside Hemsworth even if her inaptitude for catchphrases offers a solid running joke as she develops her heroic bona fides. Even back in 2011, the actress outclassed the role that she was given, but Waititi finally gives the character enough complexity to make Thor worthy of her, and uses the backbone of Aaron’s source material to juxtapose crowd-pleasing acts of toughness with the mortal’s irresistible humanity. Sadly, and perhaps as a necessary consequence of Jane’s return, Thompson’s previously mesmerizing Valkyrie gets shifted to an elevated sidekick role, so audiences may be left wanting her to participate more actively than she’s allowed—a problem highlighted by the script’s choice for that to be the character’s unfulfilled desire going into the movie (and only slightly resolved by the end).
Thankfully, Waititi stitches that use of “Welcome To The Jungle” into a larger musical theme involving Guns N’ Roses, as well as about the heroes in whose name many of us try to accomplish good things. But he and Hemsworth are so locked-in creatively—and by now the actor wields the character’s charm as effortlessly as his tree-trunk biceps—that they make just about every comic gamble pay off, down to a hilarious and yet surprisingly affecting bit about the “love triangle” that develops between him, his current weapon Stormbreaker, and Mjolnir after Jane reassembles its pieces for her own purposes.
After four installments, Thor franchise only continues to build interest from audiences when the studio inevitably makes more of these films, especially as—and directly because—Waititi takes advantage of the studio’s more recent laissez faire attitude towards its directors. But by the end, he vividly reminds audiences that his talent as a visualist and storyteller helped earn him and others that freedom. Even with Ragnarok looming large in this film’s rearview mirror, Waititi’s work here marks an important and exciting untethering of MCU films from their obligations to a larger mythology—even if this one almost certainly carries much significance for the future.
As a god and not a man in a suit or a science experiment gone wrong, Thor was the lynchpin testing whether audiences would accept Marvel’s ever-evolving internal “realities.” With the arrival of Love And Thunder, it seems fitting for him to be the one shepherding them into new cinematic realms as well.
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So… C- at best if you like Taika’s questionable sense of “humor”. Solid D for everyone else?Cheers
Since the first trailer, I’ve had fears that Love and Thunder would suffer from Guardians 2’s similar over-reliance on jokes, only some of them actually funny. Too much Waititi being Waititi can be a bad thing (and you saw glimpses of it in Ragnarok, but it was far outstripped by how solid the entire film was).Still excited to see it, but like a lot of Phase 4, this doesn’t feel as essential – although apparently the mid- and post-credit scenes are great.
I’m genuinely surprised Waititi’s schtick hasn’t worn out its welcome yet.
Like the article said, he has the ability to still consistently deliver good stuff. I think the other bit of magic is that he does fail sometimes and the press covers that well so he isn’t some comedy darling that we are being told is perfect all the time. Plus aren’t you Australian? Aren’t you legally required to dislike him since he’s a Kiwi? 🙂
He fails just as often as he succeeds I think. I’m not a fan of the new pirate show but I guess it’s doing well.
That show basically sucked until Waititi showed up, and even then, the amount of genuine chuckles it produced is pretty low. It’s an odd little show and I don’t really understand what it’s trying to be, but enough people liked it that it got a second season.
What We Do in the Shadows is brilliant, but I stopped watching the pirate show after two episodes. The verdict is out on that show about Native American teens, not must-see imho. Stayed away from that Hitler movie, and Ragnarok’s humor was off-putting to me.
Loved Ragnarok, found JoJo bold and very emotional at times, impressed by his choice of material and presentation. I agree about OFMD, though friends have said it does pick up some steam after the first few episodes—I made it to #3, may try again now that it has been picked up. WWDINS is always clever, fun to watch and I always look forward to every episode. Hardly a case of “The Verdict is out…” Reservation Dogs with a 98% approval rating on Rotten Tomatoes is unique, interesting, smart, and has some genuinely funny moments—Zahn McClarnon is worth the watch alone but all the young leads are bright and well cast, and cameos like Bill Burr are jewels in the crown.
Native American Teens was great. Blast of fresh air. But I guess fairly niche, as, once again, very little actually happened. The characters really carry that series, but they do it beautifully.
“I’m genuinely surprised Waititi’s schtick hasn’t worn out its welcome yet.”Honestly I have loved everything he has ben involved with. I mean who else could do a WW2 movie, a comedy at that, starring fucking HITLER and have it be sucessful.
they’ve been making ww2 comedies with hitler since ww2 itself.
Ach, Du Lieber!
Jerry Lewis. Ha.
he’s got great hair. and he’s very handsome. that’s my explanation, because you aren’t wrong.
because nothing better has come alongI’d rather endure Waititi’s worst tendencies over just throwing any and all kinds of shit at the wall and seeing what sticks because he still makes solid, enjoyable films, even if there’s isn’t much in terms of depth.
yeah, ragnarok was also breathing life into a franchise that hadn’t really found it’s footing. now this IS its footing, so it remains to be seen how much more of the same vibe i actually like, vs how much i enjoyed the change of pace in and of itself with ragnarok. sometimes making an alternative a default removes the magic.i’m going in with open arms and mind as much as i can, but i also hate guardians 2 so we’ll see.
Saying that the MCU hadn’t found its footing by 2017 is pretty far off. It had been through two Phases and produced several of its ultimate Top 7 movies already.
They’re talking about Thor as a franchise, not the MCU in general.
He was talking about Thor, not the MCU.
specifically meant the thor franchise, not the larger mcu. people hated the dark world.
Ok yeah I got you now
I’m the only person in the world who liked The Dark World.
The MCU had, but Thor as its own franchise had not. The Dark World isn’t exactly remembered super fondly and even those who liked the first Thor saw it as a bit dry and tablesetting relative to other parts of the MCU.
I believe he was referring to the Thor movies specifically.
I think that was in reference to the Thor movies specifically, not the MCU as a whole. Saying that the Thor movies didn’t find their footing until the third one is fair.
Calm down, they’re saying the Thor franchise specifically hadn’t found it’s footing. Which is true.
Well said
I like what Watitit’s done, definitely, and the first two Thor movies were pretty blah, but I think i’d be rather interesting to bring Kenneth Branagh back to direct a fifth and last Thor movie, after all the changes the character has gone through. Just wrap up the franchise in a differently weird way.
i agree! would be a nice full circle moment for everyone. would love to see him act in it as well.
He’s already a canonical Asgardian thanks to his voice cameo in Infinity War.
After Multiverse of Madness, the MCU is in desperate, dire need of a tonal course-correction. So unless this flick goes full Batman and Robin, I’m going to enjoy it.
By “full Batman and Robin” does that include the prominent nip suits?
I mean, I was thinking more along the lines of the hard plastic butt crack but yeah, sure.
They did, kind of, put nipples on the Thor suit.
I fucking loved Madness. It was insane.
How is it in need of a tonal course correction based on one film?
After Multiverse of Madness they should be scrambling to get writers more competent at writing Wanda to helm a Wanda movie.There’s a lot of damage that needs to be undone here, jesus that movie was such a trashfire.
Phase 4 so far kinda sucks, in that it feels like some movies are part of an actual MCU(spider man and strange spring to mind, with other marvel heroes joining into the plot), while a lot of other movies and series feel like seperate things.I feel like with phase 1-3 it was very easy to understand what was going on. From the forming of the avengers, to the looming Thanos threat to finally the big endgame battle. But here i don’t even know if everything is part of a phase 4 or not.
Too much Waititi being Waititi can be a bad thing (and you saw glimpses of it in Ragnarok, but it was far outstripped by how solid the entire film was).This’ll probably be an unpopular opinion, but I think Ragnarok is actually pretty overrated. I think it gets overpraised by dint of being different from, and way better than, The Dark World, but in its own right it’s just… okay.
I did enjoy it while I was watching it, to an extent, but it’s also totally weightless. Even by Marvel standards, it’s empty calories. It’s one thing to highlight the natural absurdity of Thor’s character/world/personality and play it for laughs, and there are moments where that works well, but they take it so far that there’s basically zero suspense or sense of stakes to the movie. If there were one moment where it would’ve be OK to give Thor a serious character beat, it would be the destruction of Asgard, but even that gets played for laughs.
People have talked before about Marvel movies’ tendency to undercut any moment of sincerity with humor, and I think Ragnarok is probably the best example of that. Thor’s entire premise and mythology is inherently ridiculous, but it feels like Waititi/the writers aren’t invested in the story they’re telling, and they’re whispering to the audience: ‘We know, it’s ridiculous, so let’s just have some fun while we’re all here.’ Which is fine, except… we don’t need to be here for this. Marvel needs another Thor film to bridge Ultron and Infinity War, and to make more money, and they know people will see it regardless. It’s the kind of humor that’s only doable when you know your brand recognition will override everything else, and I think there’s kind of an arrogance in that. But maybe I’m being too cynical, IDK.
I agree with you completely. I don’t think Ragnarok was the high bar for the MCU. Of “goofier” films, I like the first Guardians and both Ant-man movies more. But it was still a breath of fresh air into the MCU’s weakest franchise, plus it set up what turned out to be a great arc for Thor from that to Infinity War to Endgame.
There were plenty of times in Ragnarok that I rolled my eyes at some of the attempts at humor. While I think most of them worked, others, like even bothering with “the devil’s anus” as some sort of joke, were just dumb.But huge points to the post-credit scene with Goldblum thanking everyone for the revolution and proclaiming it a tie. For me, that was up there with the Jackson Pollack line in Guardians.
You’re absolutely right. Just because the source material is comic books doesn’t mean humor is needed.
Nah, as someone not interested in Marvel stuff, who simply skips the boring- looking stuff, Ragnarok was great. Caught in on airplane, and it was hilarious and fun.I think a ton of people approach it the same way I do. We’re not grading on some curve because the other Thors sucked, we’re just looking at whether we enjoy this one. FWIW, the Marvel movies I’ve enjoyed were Iron Man 1, Avengers 1, Guardians 1 and Ragnarok. Father down us Black Panther. Way down the list but still on the “enjoyed it” side of the ledger is Winter Soldier. I think that’s it for ones I have positive feelings about, but I could be forgetting something.
Did you see Spider-Man Homecoming? I ask because that’s the one besides Ragnarok that I’ve enjoyed in the last ten years or so.
See, I though GotG2 did not “over-rely” on jokes in the slightest. They almost always fed into the larger emotional points being made. On the other hand, Thor Ragnarok never missed an opportunity to undercut an emotional scene with a joke that let all the air out.
What felt off to me about GotG2 is that they lost some character consistency while also going to the same rhetorical wells a few times too often. Like, Quill doesn’t trust Ego until he does, Gamora DOES trust Ego for no particular reason and then they trade opinions without a lot of purpose aside from giving them something to argue about (since Gamora and Drax are mostly just around with nothing to do until the big finale). They also did the “I’m giving an emotional speech about one thing when I’m REALLY talking about a different thing that reveals my hidden emotional state,” like, three or four separate times. It’s still a good movie that’s a lot of fun, it just doesn’t quite hit as effectively as the first time around, which was borderline perfect.
I mean, that’s how character works? Quill is suspicious of Ego, consistent with him being suspicious of affection in general, and trusts him when Ego tells him all the things he wants to hear. Gamora encouraged Quill to be more open because she saw that Ego was offering a connection Quill yearned for, only to stop trusting him the more she knew about him.
Well, that’s the issue, though. Prior to this, Quill wasn’t “suspicious of affection in general”. That’s not the Quill from the first movie, if anything he was the peacemaker willing to go out on a limb and connect with all of these weirdos ready to kill each other. Likewise, Gamora wasn’t exactly a beacon of emotional support. It’s possible to think your way around it and it doesn’t wreck the movie, or anything, the perspectives and attitudes just don’t flow as naturally from the characters, so feel a little more artificial and “they have these opinions because we need them to argue” instead of “this is what the character would naturally think based on what we know of them.”
I bawled my eyes out with GOTG2 so it’s all right in my book.
Just saw it (no spoilers), the theatre wasn’t packed, but there were enough that you could gauge the reception of the humour, and honestly there weren’t a lot of laughs (myself included).That being said, there were still a fair few funny moments and, thankfully, it’s not a joke-every-second kind of movie like Guardians 2 was.
Maybe you’ve seen the movie by now I don’t know, but I saw it on premiere day, and bloody hell it’s a fucking awesome summer blockbuster popcorn action movie. Formulaic? Yeah, sure. Safe? Mm, undoubtedly. Well-polished? Fucking mirror shine. This movie’s like a Swiss watch of watches, you might say. It doesn’t get any more slick and well-crafted than this.Is “Love and Thunder” exactly as good and fresh as “Ragnarök” was? Hard to say, maybe not quite, now that the surprise of Waititi’s odd take on a superhero movie has worn off. But it’s really really good, and the humor is good, and this movie is also eminently well-suited to being seen in a cinema.I saw it with an absolutely amazing crowd, there was a bunch of people behind me who sang along with G&R’s “Sweet Child of Mine” during the end credits and everything. The two kids I dreaded sitting next to turned out to be great, they were both incredibly vested in the movie and the Marvel Cinematic Universe in general, discussing all the big story beats in (politely quiet) whispers, and so on.Just an amazing movie experience on the whole. I really rather liked it. Easy 8 1/2 out of 10.
With regards to how ‘essential’ things are, I tend to look at Phase 4 the way we look at Phase 1: beginning a larger arc and setting up a status quo. I think for now they’re playing it fast and loose and we’ll start seeing things snap into place once we have some big tentpole crossover and things move into Phase 5.
Nah the movie was great.
Thor: Love And Thunder revisits the cheeky. . .
Ha, I see what you did there!
Great review.
If Killmonger is your benchmark for a villian, I fear we may be using different measurement systems. Killmonger was flat, forgettable, and not particularly threatening. His motivations were believable, but everything else was kind of “meh.”
an important and exciting untethering of MCU films from their
obligations to a larger mythology—even if this one almost certainly
carries much significance for the future.
This is the dirty magic trick of the MCU. Every of of their projects is exactly this: way more loosy-goosey with continuity than we’d expect from such an interconnected franchise, but with some pointed moments and teases that reminds us that yes, it’s still “all connected.”
For some reason we find that “fresh,” and then we manage to forget all about it until the next one comes along and does the exact same thing.
Even with Natalie Portman’s biceps . . . well, let’s face it: you could pick your teeth with Natalie Portman’s biceps
(To wit, for a premiere-night audience seemingly primed to lap up everything Marvel served them, there was a conspicuous lack of enthusiasm during these set-up sequences in the screening that I attended.) The fact that during this time, Waititi plays “Welcome To The Jungle,” one of the most over-used musical cues in modern movie history, exemplifies its comparatively flaccid energy.God, I’ve never read anything so pedantic, and with so much lack o self awareness, it’s trying to convey a criticism by turning this itself into self-parody, proclaiming waititi fails to deliver while simultaneously writing a paragraph like that is not unintentionally hilarious, but it also made my eyeballs roll out of my skull goes to show how some critics try too hard to prove a point and not really review movies
Since a movie review is an essay, and essays have points, proving a point is the goal of reviewing a movie.
i don’t even understand what the problem he’s having is. the reviewer basically says ‘the preview audiences are usually really enthusiastic for these, this audience wasn’t, and adding to that lack of enthusiasm was the re-use of a tired song we’ve heard a lot in movies’. what’s pedantic or lacking in self awareness?
My first thought was that he has a chip on his shoulder about the reviewer casually mentioning that he was part of a “premiere-night audience,” or he doesn’t like the implication that an audience’s response is a good measure of a movie. (Obviously, the audience reaction is a bit of a tangent, which is why it’s in parentheses.)
Jesus. Marvel fan bois are the biggest fucking babies.
I like GnR and I really like the Thor character/movies but WTTJ seems like a terrible song to use in the movie. Guh, so dull. I’d rather hear The Immigrant Song for the (well deserved) millionth time.
I’m mostly excited to see Portman flex not just her biceps, but her comedic skills (I always think she was one of SNL’s more memorable guests despite not taking many comedic roles in her career).Waititi I think shines better with his whimsy visually, so even if the schtick feels old in the dialogue, I’m happy he still delivers a flair elsewhere.
Agreed on Portman and SNL. If you squint, ‘Black Swan’ can come across as a comedy, too.
I laughed a few times
it should have been played that way. darren arronofosky does not have a sense of humor. even tho, i think he does because he’s good on the parts unknown in madagascar but cineamatically he can’t be funny. black swam is very campy.
I think Christian Bale is who I am legitimately most excited to see in this movie.Having written that, I am genuinely surprised over the mixed reception the film has gotten so far. Not because I was somehow personally expecting it to be a masterpiece, I had plenty of issues already with Ragnarok, but because I do think there has been a tendency to be a bit softer in reviews over MCU and Waititi films, with this hitting that sense of nostalgic ease that usually seems well expected. None of this is even a bad thing, there are a lot of aspects that determine the enjoyment of a film, just didn’t see this one coming.
even the really positive reviews are like ‘doesn’t really live up to ragnarok, has tone and pacing whiplash, there are some really baffling decisions, the mcu might be running out of steam, 8/10′
Okay, if someone honestly wrote ‘Doesn’t live up to Ragnarok, has tonal whiplash’, I would be genuinely curious did that person see Ragnarok considering that movie couldn’t help ruining every dramatic scene with an instant joke.
i was a paraphrasing, but here are two faves so far, keep in mind the scores!
These scores don’t seem to match those excerpts.
I think Christian Bale is who I am legitimately most excited to see in this movie.Hoo boy
It’s worth point out that Ragnarok’s ensemble had Waititi, Mark Ruffalo, Jeff Goldblum, and Tim Hiddleston – for as famous as they are, all four of them have that character-actor energy that really energizes tiny bits of dialog and reaction shots. Natalie Portman has totally different screen presence. Also, Waititi seems like one of those comedy writer/directors who struggles with female characters – Tessa Thompson and Cate Blanchett were both strikingly filmed but didn’t have nearly as much to do as the male characters or the giant CGI dog.
I’m sure I’ll enjoy it since its in the same style of Ragnarok and the Guardians movies, which is how I like my MCU movies, but I’m a little worried the trailers have already shown us so much. There’s like 4 or 5 trailers plastered all over TV and the internet so its kinda hard to avoid them and its giving me the feeling that some of the good stuff has been given away.
No, there’s plenty more good stuff.
Good to know. Thanks!
It will take some self-discipline, but I’ll probably wait for streaming on this one. I’m at a point where I’m only catching these in cinemas to get ahead of the spoilers, and I’m realizing not a lot of Phase 4 has been spoil-worthy anyway. Sooner or later I’ve got to stop flocking to everything Marvel puts out. Of all the Avengers, a 4th Thor (!) feels the most like another movie for the sake of having another movie.
buddy i’m right there with you. i’ll maybe use points to see it for free or something, but the urgency and excitement i used to feel for these things is all but gone.
That was the way I felt going into Ragnarok, particularly since Marvel had insisted on stopping Age of Ultron cold for, essentially, a very uncompelling Thor 3 teaser. That said, Ragnarok was rather delightful and different, and the Mighty Thor arc that they’re doing in this movie is something I enjoyed in the comics. So maybe the the Thor movies we didn’t need are Thors 1 and 2, not Thors 3 and 4?The MCU movies I’m having a hard time looking forward to are the next two after this one, starring probably the MCU’s most prominent anti-vaxxers, Laetitia Wright and Evangeline Lilly. Loved Black Panther and found the Ant-Man movies fun enough, but I don’t know if there’s a compelling reason for another Ant-Man movie or a Black Panther movie without Chadwick Boseman. I might be more interested in those films if there was a larger MCU narrative they’re moving forward, but so far it doesn’t seem like we have one of those—just more moves to expand a universe that’s already plenty large and unwieldy.
Well Namor is possibly showing up in the new Black Panther and some of the rumors point to Laetitia Wright not actually becoming the new Black Panther, but since we’ve seen nothing about it yet, it could go either way.The next Ant-Man and The Wasp has Kang and it seems likely that he’s going to be one of, if not THE, big bad for the next few years at a minimum.
The problem with both of those things is that they’re based more on stuff that we’ve been told in the press than things we’ve seen to get excited by in any of the movies. Even though Kang’s a long-established Avengers villain (and made an appearance on Loki’s D+ show) he doesn’t have a particularly strong connection to either Ant-Man in the comics. Wakanda and Atlantis are definitely a thing in the comics, but a lot of the pleasure of that comes from the contrast of personalities and competencies between T’Challa and Namor as superpowered heads of state. Not as appealing if Wakanda Forever has to introduce a new Panther along with Namor.
I wasn;t particularly excited for Black Panther 2 without Boseman, but rumors point to the excellent Winston Duke as having a more prominent role in this one, which is exciting.
Also, the design for Namor is outstanding and brings a spin on the character that I had never thought of before: Atlantis as a sort of Latino Wakanda. An indigenous Mayan-like civilization that was never conquered.
Oof, I somehow missed that Evangeline Lilly is an anti-vaxxer too.
Weirdly, Lilly’s anti-vaxx position has only been mentioned once here, back in March 2020, while AV Club has dinged Wright for similar (actually, in some ways milder) stuff repeatedly. Part of that is because there was speculation Wright’s vaccination status impacted the production of Wakanda Forever, but it was weird to see Lilly being at the RFK Jr. rally where he compared vaccination mandates to the Holocaust, and that just seems to have slipped past Barsanti, Hughes, and Co. back in January.
Imagine still thinking “anti-vaxxer” is a diss in July 2022 after they’ve been fully vindicated LOL.
This was how I felt going into Strange 2, as phase 4 is going full multiverse, and surely something huge was gonna happen in a movie with “Multiverse” in its title with implications for future installments. Yet other than one character’s fate, Strange 2 was surprisingly inconsequential to the big picture, and makes me pretty comfortable taking my time seeing Thor here without having to walk through a minefield on social media.That’s not inherently a bad thing either. Perhaps the most common criticism I see of the MCU is that you have to see all of them to understand anything now. A breezy, inconsequential installment is a great way to win over people who maybe fell out of the loop along the way, or just joined too late and are intimidated by the amount of viewing homework.
I stopped seeing these things in theaters right before Endgame and it was a great decision. Save your time for movies with more meat on them.
The fact that people have devised logistics around how/when they will see this film will never be something I will understand. It’s just another dumb movie that is being helmed by someone you just know puts a lot of effort into being seen as ahead of everyone else but which feels leaded and requires accepting of an alternate reality to have even a hint of real comedy.
Pretty much the only reason I saw No Way Home and Dr. Strange in theaters. Just to avoid spoilers. The only movies I’d been to in over two years. I did find myself wondering if the same urge would take over for this movie, but I do think I can wait the 45 days for streaming on this, though I do really wanna see it.
I think Eternals fatigued me, then Strange 2 killed any enthusiasm I had left.After Infinity War/Endgame killed Gamora and Widow, the MCU was in need of some strong female lead presence again and then Strange 2 showed that those that are left can just be tossed out on a dime, spun into a 1 dimensional killing machine villain with nary so much as an explanation beyond the occasional line of dialogue “cuz book”.So if Phase 4 and beyond is gonna be a boring mess (Eternals) combined with them having no clue what to do with their characters (Strange 2), then yeah I’m not feeling particularly keen on going to every Marvel movie these days.That being said, just got back from this one because I was in town on business and Waititi’s usually pretty fun, and it was definitely the best of the lot to come out so far.
And “wait for streaming” is 6 weeks nowadays, based on DS2.
Phase 4 has been about 2 things, mostly. Setting up the multiverse is the showy thing, but it’s also been about dealing with the psychological trauma and fallout inflicted on the avengers during phase 3/Infinity Wars, and Thor was arguably hit the hardest. You can make a case for Wanda and I won’t fault or argue with it. But the last time we see Thor, he has trauma bonded with Rocket and so leaves with GOG because he feels like he doesn’t have anywhere else to go. Thor has a lot of shit to work through, and this movie does a nice job of letting him process his actual feelings vs what he thinks he’s supposed to feel. It’s very interesting that Taika has Quill, who is in equal measure the most emotionally stunted avenger, but one of the most emotionally honest give Thor some advice that leads him to make better choices in this adventure. The story leaves him in a nice place, though getting there sucked for him. This is as close to a happy ending as Thor is going to get, and it was indeed necessary for anyone interested in closure for Thor.
When Star-Lord (Chris Pratt) encourages him to visit his few remaining loved ones in order to center himself
I like that this advice is coming from a character who refuses to go tell his grandpa he’s not dead.
More like a character hoping to get Thor out of his hair for a while.
Peter is like 40. Is his grandpa alive??
It’s easy to miss, but his grandpa was at least alive during the events of Guardians 2. He’s in a car as I recall being effected by the Ego-seed thing on earth.
This is correct, but does he know if or is his grandfather is still alive? It seems like the first time he’s been back to earth was in Endgame which is set in 2023 and Vol 2 is set in 2014. There’s a good chance he stopped to say “hi” before they took off to space again.
I think I was one of the few people who felt very “blah” about Thor Ragnarok, so this mixed review doesn’t exactly surprise me. I’m excited for a cool villain though!
Thankfully, Waititi stitches that use of “Welcome To The Jungle” into a larger musical theme involving Guns N’ RosesWell now my interest in seeing this has plummeted.
It’s gonna bring you DOWN!Huh!
Honestly, there’s only one piece of pop culture that did that song any justice. Shoulda retired it after that.
Um you mean
I beg pardon; two pieces of pop culture that did that song any justice.
Please:https://youtu.be/1KuK6-rv56U
Sorry, this thread isn’t about “best use of ghost cars”.
I submit this as the one other time hearing this song didn’t make me want to ram shish kebab skewers in my ears:
Please:
Still mad they didn’t call it THOR 4: Thor Some More
Thor 5: All Thored out.
All Thor’d up again.
Why not, Thor 4: All Thor’d up?
Thor 4: More Thor
We are one film away from a massive Hulk fart-joke. One film away.
Oh so funny!
Humor and drama? I expected humor and impending doom and horror. Well, we’ll see soon enough. Not a fan of the humor in Ragnarok, and not a fan of Guns N Roses.
What kind of weirdo doesn’t like Appetite-era GNR?
Last time I checked people were allowed to like some songs and dislike others. Plus, same goes for Beastie Boys, whose songs ruined the newer Star Trek movies for me with their ridiculous abilities.
Killmonger was an awfully written cartoonish villain except for his last scene, so I wouldn’t have used him for comparison… Wenwu was just last year.
Shhhhhh we’re supposed to think Black Panther was the pinnacle of the MCU. It was nominated for Best Picture, for chrissakes!
After having just seen it, it is definitely inferior than Thor 3.Positives: The main three are all strong here, and Portman makes an excellent Mighty Thor. The cosmos scenes are all good. And, it has some moment that are pretty hilarious. The climax is cool, but not as good as Thor 3.Negatives: What the hell are GotG and Korg doing in this? They add nothing (and Korg actually makes the movie worse this time around, somehow). Instead, that time could’ve been used for something else much more important, which is the second, biggest negative: Gorr is completely, utterly undeserved. He gets almost no development, his origin doesn’t make sense (and there was a much better, easier way to establish his origin within the movie which I’m a bit confused as to why it wasn’t used since it’s set up), and, worst of all, you don’t see him kill a single freakin’ god outside the very first one (which was a part of the aforementioned poorly executed origin). What the hell?After Thor 3 I felt energised. After this one I felt a little empty. Still better than Strange 2.
Is there at least ~mention~ of All-Black The Necrosword?
Yes. All-Black gets named a lot.Also, I disagree with OP about Gorr. And not just because Bale is fantastic.
Is there at least ~mention~ of All-Black The Necrosword?Yes….in that Gorr gets the sword, and it calls to him with the film’s plot.Mjolnir calls to Jane, meanwhile Thor apologizes to Stormbreaker for talking about Mjolnir like it was his ex-girlfriend.Sadly not joking about any of this…easily the most profoundly disappointing film I’ve seen in years.
There are other examples in the MCU of magical weapons being a character unto themselves, like Cape/Cloak. All-Black is kind of like the One Ring. MCU Thor has always had a “special” relationship with Mjolnir. The best scene in Ultron was Thor being concerned/jealous that Cap got Mjolnir to move. Stormbreaker’s handle is Groots arm. I wonder if Thor plants it again and it continued to grow if it would become fully sentient.
I’m looking forward to this movie but seeing the 71% on RT was kind of a shock because I thought it would get the same reviews as the last one (which was awesome). Still have my ticket for 10:30PM Eastern tomorrow and can’t wait.
>Gorr seeks control of Thor’s rainbow bridge in order to connect with an even more powerful being that potentially holds the ability to grant his murderous wish So it’s looking more and more like Kang will be the next Thanos. Which is…fine I guess. My heart is still holding out for a proper Galactus.
Just saw the movie and I have a feeling that Disney is making marvel veer towards kids than young adults, leaving adult fans in dust.
Multiverse of Madness had Captain Picard’s neck being snapped, so maybe it’s just this?
Oh wow. I haven’t seen multiverse yet. I’ll check that out.
And Strange’s reanimated zombie corpse wearing a cape made of the souls of the damned. You know, typical kid-oriented stuff.
There’s enough dark stuff in MoM that I doubt this, but maybe Waititi’s lighter touch – and some of the D+ series – makes it feel that way?
Curious to see if the new film is as uneven as I’m reading…and that Bale is the best part of it by a long shot.
Like being in love with someone with a terminal cancer diagnosis?
I agree, kids famously love movies where a small child dies from exposure and an adult has stage 4 cancer.
Never forget MCU fannies – nothing lasts forever. I’m sure this film will make tons of $$ but you can feel it: the long slow decline of the MCU. Nothing can lasts forever – especially so huge as the MCUniverse.
Much like you, Todd, I found the first half of the movie weirdly undercooked, as if Waititi and Jennifer Kaytin Robinson were consciously feeding into the expectations of A Taika Waititi Joint rather than letting the story flow more. The second half, however, was one of the tightest outside of the Infinity War/Endgame two-parter.
This movie is definitely lighter in tone to Ragnarok. But it’s a fun stand alone movie. Nothing here to be worried about spoilers with. Christian Bale is a classy classy actor. It was a joy to watch him in all of his scenes. Just superb. And finally a villain with a fully realised arc you can understand and get behind. As a New Zealander I sometimes feel it’s the law to like everything Taika does but personally I’d prefer he not be in any of his films. I couldn’t stand him in JoJo Rabbit and he’s just as annoying here. Maybe I’m so used to the accent I find it jarring to hear it amongst the American ones ? Still, kudos to the actual movie, was tonnes of fun and some surprise cameos that got a lot of laughs in the local theatre I watched it in.
“would-be executioner of the multiverse’s deities”Nope. 100% just dealing with the 616 universe’s gods. Zero alternate reality shit going on here.
Holy shit this movie was fucking awful. I loved Ragnarok was top 3 marvel movie. This was a bottom 5 marvel movie. Holy shit, joke joke joke joke joke! Bad acting by Portmam again! Tessa was shit and Chris was back to meh. Wow, even my friend who loves everything said this was like a bad sunday night TV movie back in the day.
irrelevant comment:linchpin, not lynchpin
I didn’t think it was awful. It was good fun with my 16 year old twin boys. And we laughed at that stupid running gag every damn time. I would have loved to see more of Jane/Val, but that would have been a longer/different movie. Between this and Our Flag Means Death, I wonder if Taika is having a bit of a midlife crisis. He seems very preoccupied with self actualization stories at the moment.
Seems there is a 6 month backstory with Val and Jane we were not privy to…
Those goats were a nightmare. Once was amusing. But their incessant bleating throughout the movie was insufferable
I went in to Multiverse of Madness expecting to love it and I hated it. Thor Love and Thunder I expected to hate, based on headlines I’m seeing and I loved it. Top 5 MCU films for me. I loved the tone, the scope, the stakes, everything. At times it reminded me of a Cameron Crowe movie like “Singles” — which is about the last thing I expected from this.
This was the least enjoyable MCU movie I’ve seen (obviously I didn’t see Eternals or Shang Chi, I mean the real ones). I loved Ragnarok and it may have been the movie that got me to dive into the MCU.I actually thought about walking out a couple times which I’ve only ever done for one other movie. It’s just under 2 hours but felt much longer.I cant say exactly what the problem was as the performances were pretty good. I don’t know if it was the editing or the writing but it just did not seem cohesive at all and none of the things that happened made sense. It’s like they just forgot to make it good.
https://mattthecatania.wordpress.com/2022/07/09/will-you-love-thunder-thor-4/
I liked Thor: Love & Thunder but unfortunately I didn’t love it. I was expecting to finally see some quality romance. The pacing is deflated with Korg narrated flashbacks. Gorr & Foster
are empowered quickly but could’ve used more characterization. The
mid-tier jokes of the loose plot distract from their pathos. This movie surprisingly clocks in at under two hours. Being longer
would’ve been worthwhile if it became less perfunctory as a result. I’d be interested in seeing how crazy the four hour cut of Thor Forever was.
Having seen it now, I’d say the grade is fair (a solid B). Elsewhere I’ve seen more negative reviews, pulling down the overall critics score, but they’re a bit harsh. This isn’t as good as Ragnarok, and there’s a couple of flaws* here or there, but overall it is most certainly an enjoyable Marvel movie. There’s a building wave of opinion, some of it earned and some of it unearned from people just rooting for it to happen, of MCU losing its luster. This isn’t one of those times. They still got their fastball with going with Love and Thunder.*Speaking of flaws, I’d say the biggest one imo is the tone feels a little odd at times. There’s a couple of clunky shifts where we go from emotional moments to typical Waititi style comedy. I also think they movie could have been a tad bit longer. Would have liked to seen a bit more out of Valkyrie and some more out of Gorr. Gorr was pretty darn terrifying in a few scenes and Bale was excellent, but he’s not used nearly as much as you would think. And a very minor quibble, its kinda messed up how little the Guardians are in this film despite all the promotion and build up making it seem like they’d play a significant role. You literally see all their parts in the trailers.
I 100% agree that this film takes some time to get going. It does often feel too comedic for its own good. The jokes are funny, but sometimes seem out of place with the tone of previous scenes. In the end it makes good. One of the things I found myself struck with was that I continued to think about the film after I left the theatre. Usually with these Marvel films, I see them once and never give them a second thought. This one kept coming back to me as I remembered small bits. Christian Bale is also not wasted, which is more than you can say for Christopher Eccleston in Dark World.
I fucking loved the movie. But I also liked Eternals. I guess my bar is a bit different than a lot of other people.I thought Bale and Crowe were perfectly cast – especially Bale. You need your villain to BRING IT and he always does.
I saw this a couple days ago. I’m biased cuz I’ve read Jason Aaron’s run on Mighty Thor, but this is my new favourite MCU film. I loved it.
C-. The constant whiplash between serious emotions and Taika foolishness is unsettling. Thor is both an idiot and a role model, a vain narcissist blind to his incompetence and a noble hero suffering from a wounded heart. And worst of all, most of the jokes are LAME (not all, but a depressingly high percentage). Christian Bale does his usual best to bring gravitas to his role, but the surrounding spectacle is so cartoonish that the movie doesn’t gell as a whole. If this movie had been Serious With A Few Jokey Moments, it would have been SO much better. Oh, and the Guardians might as well not have been in it. Why send Thor off with this bunch in Endgame when you have absolutely no idea what to do with the team-up and you hand it to a writer/director who wants nothing to do with it?