TNT refused to air the already-finished final season of Snowpiercer
The sci-fi show's fourth season has been kicked off the Warner Bros. Discovery-owned network, and is being shopped around to other outlets
Aux News Snowpiercer
Well, this is just getting goddamn ridiculous at this point: Deadline reports that yet another network has decided to shitcan one of its shows, after already filming an entire season of it, with news breaking today that the fourth season of Snowpiercer won’t be airing on TNT. (Which, shock of shocks, is owned by Warner Bros. Discovery, bold pioneers in the “paying creative people to make something and then not bothering to air it” sciences.)
To be (an extremely tiny amount of) fair, Snowpiercer had become something of an outlier on TNT at this point, being the network’s last remaining original scripted series floating amidst a sea of reruns. Also, a spokesperson for TNT claimed that it had been working with the show’s producers, Tomorrow Studios, to help shop the show around. But even so: It’s a damn lousy way to treat a bunch of people who went out and did all the hard work of filming a TV show for you, and another data point in the increasingly worrying trend of treating that kind of output as totally disposable, even by the already loose standards of TV. (See also AMC’s recent decision to dump the completed second season of Courtney B. Vance’s 61st Street.)
It’s especially notable to do this to a show that’s been around for as long as Snowpiercer has; the series, which stars Daveed Diggs and Jennifer Connelly, isn’t a ratings juggernaut or anything, but it’s got enough fans that you’d think it would be worth it to give them an actual fourth season and a finale—especially if it already, y’know, exists, and is just sitting on a hard drive somewhere.
Deadline notes that the Snowpiercer dumping was apparently tied to all the efforts WBD made last year to turn TV shows into tax cuts, a practice the entertainment giant has said it’s now done with. (Mostly, apparently.) We did get one small note of optimism regarding this practice earlier this week, at least: Starz made headlines by picking up the already-completed second season of Minx, after HBO tax cut it into the trash.
87 Comments
Jesus. What the hell. They just put absolutely zero value on viewer loyalty. Why did I watch three seasons of this if the network will literally fund and produce a full conclusion to the story and then not even bother to show it to me? They just keep screwing the viewers in these egregious ways and expect that we’ll never stop coming back for more. They are wrong.
Old saying:“The institution does not love you back.”
I mean, that part has always been clear. As have the realities of the entertainment business, but this isn’t a matter of having made something that is just so awful that the studio doesn’t want to release it for fear of embarrassment or cancelling the production of a project that is doomed to fail before the cameras even start rolling. This whole ‘fully-complete-a-production-and-then-disappear-it-before-release-for-the-sole-purpose-of-achieving-tax-write-offs-for-the-parent-company’ thing is a new tactic. Or, if not, then at least nobody has ever wanted to face the backlash and humiliation of actually implementing it before. It punishes and devalues only their own creators and audience for corporate gain with a strategy that unavoidably feels exploitive and gross in a pretty nakedly indefensible way. This isn’t like not making a third Hellboy movie because it’s just too niche for the box office. This is like making the third Hellboy movie and then burning the negatives for warmth because it’s a touch chilly in the office that day. It flat out declares to the customer and the artists that their efforts, money, and/or attention were never valued in the first place. It’s a new level of creative corporate low and I find it personally repulsive.
I suppose it fits with WB’s failures over the last decade, though. Properties under them have been falling on their faces left and right. I give you The Hobbit and Justice League as just a couple of examples.
Can you explain how this is a tax write-off?
In my life, institutions still have treated me better than people, including family. At least institutions don’t judge, belittle my decisions or criticize every single thing about me, from hair to turns of phrase. 🙁
This is one of the absolute dumbest and most bizarre comments I have ever seen here.
Small world for you, eh?
That’s only because Berkshire Hathaway have yet to notice your cornrows.
They are also putting zero value into their relationship with the people who make the shows. If they want to keep attracting talent, it helps to not dick over the talent that you have.
They aren’t interested in keeping that talent. They are only interested in keeping talent that can make huge blockbusters or low-cost reality garbage. Everything else to them is without value.
True, but the problem is that talent that’s mid-level today could easily be the one making huge blockbusters tomorrow, and refusing to work with TNT or WBD or whoever because of how they were fucked over previously.
Dicking over the talent would entail clawing back what you paid them. The dark back closet of history is filled with completed and then “shelved” projects that will never see the light of day – people in the industry accept that as a possibility.
But they don’t like it. They really, really don’t like it. It’s not just about getting paid, especially for a project you believe in. It’s about getting that project out and using it to build to the next thing. A studio that is constantly shelving projects, especially when that shelving has little to do with quality, will have trouble convincing talent that it’s worthwhile to work with them.
It’s almost to the point where I don’t start a show until I know it will actually have a proper ending.
The fourth season is being shopped around. There’s a chance it will still be seen.
What an age to be alive.
I really like Snowpiercer. I thought the movie wasn’t very good, but as in the case of some other films to TV series (I’m thinking Stargate), those involved managed to turn a mediocre movie into an excellent TV show, expanding the universe in thoughtful ways, adding interesting characters, and writing stories with depth and creativity. I was very much looking forward to its fourth season, especially knowing it would be the series’ last. And NOW, I (and its other fans) might never see it?! Screw WB/D! I’m seriously going to be on the lookout for *anything* with their brand — and avoid it!P.S. Given this crap, I extremely doubt Doom Patrol or Titans will be renewed. And I also strongly suspect J. Michael Straczynski’s plans to redo Babylon 5 (owned by WB) are dead in space.*
Maybe Netflix’ll pick it up, since they already advertise it as a “Netflix original” in the UK.
Same goes for Latinamerica
I still have season 3 sitting on my DVR. Guess I won’t bother with it now.
Has there been any *good* news as a result of this merger?
I’ll play the devil’s advocate.Most of the situation we’re seeing here comes from the terrible corporate management by ATT during something like three or four years. ATT made a lot of questionable decisions, including betting it all on HBO Max, without considering profitability. Most of the strategy consisted of establishing HBO Max as the leading streaming service, bigger than Netflix, and to succeed in this they needed a lot of original programming, among others. Profitabiliy wasn’t an immediate concern, as HBO Max was supposed to bring tons of cash in a longterm scenario.At some point, ATT lost interest or realized that it wouldn’t work as projected, and got rid of the whole division, with a debt that reaches $50B for the eventual buyer.That’s why I feel it’s a little simplistic to blame it all on the current management, supposedly ruthless. Consider instead that Warner Bros. has more or less gone bankrupt, without anybody really noticing before it was too late, and that the current guys are simply trying to save a few key assets from the wreckage.
“Consider instead that Warner Bros. has more or less gone bankrupt, without anybody really noticing before it was too late, and that the current guys are simply trying to save a few key assets from the wreckage.”I mean, that would be a better situation for viewers.A much better situation.So considering that doesn’t improve the view. If it had completely collapsed, instead of looking for tax-write-offs, whoever got hold of it would be looking to sell stuff. The shows would strewn to the four winds, but that’s hugely better than them being locked in the vault, potentially forever, certainly for years.
Well, thanks for dumbsplaining the overall situation here. Pretty sure everyone gets this.This article was on a particular decision that takes an enormous shit on people who did good faith work on the company’s behalf and on customers who have shown loyalty, for what doesn’t appear on any level to present a financial benefit to the company commensurate with that fuck you.This particular comment was asking whether, of the billion changes that have resulted from this merger, anything is positive to people who don’t own stock.The answer is no.
Jesus, why are you attacking them for their answer? You didn’t ask the original question yet seem to think you did. Chill the fuck out.
Lol
I didn’t ask any question. But I never understand commenters who spend a few hundred words restating the premise.
The funny thing is that WB Discovery’s stock price has dropped almost 50% since it spun off from AT&T so these decisions haven’t benefited the shareholders either.And I suspect that in the long run, things are probably get worse for the shareholders. So many of these decisions are shortsighted. They’re saving some money now but they’re doing damage to the brand and screwing over their customers. Things might look better on the books for the next year or two due to cost cutting but they’re probably going to lose a lot of revenue in the long run unless they decide to start selling off their properties. And even then, they’ve done damage to the brand so they probably won’t be able to sell them for as much as they want.
Well, thanks for dumbsplaining the overall situation here. Pretty sure everyone gets this.I wouldn’t be so sure.
Sorry. Anyone who gives one fuck about this situation already understands the basics of the situation.No one else gives a fuck.
Stop making sense and just grab a pitchfork.
When it’s Mr. Zsasz Zaslav? Grabbing a pitchfork and storming his office before he sells everything not a trash reality show (the only thing he understands because he’s a trash human being!) off to the lowest bidder? Actually does make sense….
Lol these are the worst kinds of comments
Sweetie, the Devil doesn’t need you to speak for him.
“I’ll play the devil’s advocate”No that’s ok you don’t have to
Wasn’t the acquisition heavily leveraged as well? I thought some of that post merger debt is a result of the acquisition itself. Which would implicate the current management as well.
So the reason why Batgirl can’t be shown is because it was written off as a loss and chucked in the bin since they’re not allowed to make any money off of it. If this is part of that same scheme, how are they allowed to shop it around? I thought this might be just sloppy AVClub reporting, but Deadline says virtually the same thing. Is there some sort of total/partial loss distinction here? And if that’s the case why did the Scoob! sequel get caught in the same net as Batgirl? Surely that would have been worth more to license out than to just bury it. It’s not like they have to worry about the terrible ripple effects of one bad Scooby Doo movie on their reputation.
It’s almost like all their various excuses about why they are doing this are complete bullshit.
Obviously there’s valid reason to be angry about this stuff, but it’s hardly bullshit. There are a lot of nuances, legally and from a financial perspective here. The biggest being WB is happy to auction off these shows if they hit some sort of financial standard they’ve decided on internally – likely not as big as the tax breaks they could receive, but in the general ballpark, while allowing the shows out and keeping relationships with the talent involved relatively harmonious.Batgirl, unfortunately, is a different issue because under no circumstances is the studio interested in auctioning off a DC property permanently, even if it’s one they don’t like at all. And clearly that production is something they don’t want involved in their DC brand whatsoever.
I’ve noticed people online really love complaining about WB. And that’s great! Plenty of reason to, especially over the last couple of years. But talent in this town is much more forgiving and receptive to regime changes. At the end of the day, WB has a much longer history of being a talent friendly legacy studio and the hope is that it returns to that. The De Luca/Abdy hire is clearly expressly aimed in that direction. Will it work? No idea. But I wouldn’t be shocked if they turn things around eventually.
It’s not the same thing. Like Minx, it will find a new place. Some of it may be licensing fees and/or other costs being saved.
My question is what makes it different. The way I understood it is that WB is not allowed to make any money off of Batgirl or Scoob! because they were written off for tax purposes. If this show is also being written off, as seems to be implied, why can they license it out or otherwise make money off of it?
I do not believe it is being written off for tax purposes.
I don’t think this is part of the same tax writeoff loophole. As I recall the reporting at the time, that was a time limited thing after the completion of the merger, and the cancellation of Batgirl and the Scooby-Doo movie was supposedly done near the deadline for WB/Discovery to exploit that loophole.The reason they’re trying to sell these series off now is because even with those tax writeoffs they’re still heavily in debt (they borrowed to buy WB, and WB wasn’t in great health to begin with) and cash-starved. If they can get anyone to give them money for the last season of Snowpiercer, that’s money they can apply to their interest payments. They’re holding a yard sale of WB assets in the hopes of raising enough money to keep from defaulting on the mortgage.
The answer is buried in your questions: the “license out” part. WB/Discovery is now the exclusive rights holder to DC-related media and WB animation. Even if they wanted to shop Batgirl or Scoob around, the licensing would be a nightmare for any potential buyer, especially because one of the co-licensors would be WB/Discovery itself. So the only outlet that could feasibly want to have those products is WB/Discovery, and they don’t.
Snowpiercer, on the other hand, though based on a book, can be far more easily sold as a self-contained “original” product, because it isn’t associated with any particular brand beyond itself.
I’m only interested in watching the original pilot written by Josh Friedman and directed by Scott Derrickson.
As a film worker I can tell you that many of us technicians would happily work forever on stuff that doesn’t make it to air. Hell, that’s par for the course at Pilot Season. Just feeding the kids.
I wish I could say I was surprised but at this point I’d be more shocked if WBD let a show finish on its original network and/or Max. If that Flash movie ever comes out, I’m practically positive Zaslav’s gonna put it on Disney+ after a week.
disney only plays their own stuff and marvel.
I dunno if you’re up-to-date, but certainly outside the US, they play almost everything that’s on Hulu, and a bunch of other stuff besides, on Disney+. My impression was the US version was also heading that way.
That is the joke, yes.
Dont quote me on this, but I think maybe jokes are supposed to be funny.
It’s not out of the question entirely. The longest of long shots, sure. But they did just buy the rights to air upcoming seasons of Dr. Who.
We entered the age of “content”, and they don’t care about anything besides you paying for and consuming the “content”.That’s all you have to think about when trying to put yourself in their mindset.
this is ridiculous, what do they have to lose by airing something thats already done?
They probably have to pay out quite a bit to the actors and producers when the show airs or goes up on streaming. Not saying they did the right thing but it’s not cost-free to air the show just because it’s completed.
Wut? You are trying to blame the actors? Did you just see that photo of Mr. Diggs and decide he’s the problem?
The story said it’s been filmed. No word if it’s been through the post production process (which costs money). If it airs they would have to pay additional residuals for the creatives (which costs money). And WBD would have to give up the tax write-off (which saves money)
The real question is “What do they gain by airing it?” On TNT, it might have a slight effect on viewership levels, with maybe a some small future net gain of advertising dollars or basic cable fees. By not airing it, they can sell it off, giving them cash money right now they can use to keep from defaulting on their debt.
and noones gonna do anything about it, but axing something for the tax write off feels like fraud, to me. Its like the landlords who have space and purposely keep it empty for taxes.
At the very least it feels like something that needs to be brought up at various Actor/Director/Writer etc Union meetings. Trying to implement penalties for films and programmes that are completed and then dumped for tax reasons, something along those lines.
I’m not sure but I think the next window for something like this would be the WGA’s contract expiring in… 2027?
The current WGA contract expires on May 1st, 2023.
Hm, that’s quite soon isn’t it?
Not fraud, quite legal and tied to the merger. Basically a tax write off for the reasons of “this doesn’t fit the new direction of the company.”
I never got the impression Snowpiercer had great ratings or even a big following. That it was funded for 4 seasons…it must have been making them some money. Loved the film; only liked the first season of the series. From there it dropped off sharply for me. But to continue to trash *completed projects* is just fucking crazy. WBD truly does not care.
I understand that they are doing this to cut costs but it really seems like they are going to end up pissing off tons of production companies who will be unlikely to want to work with them in the future. I there will always be someone who will be willing to cash their check but this seems to be the kind of short sighted thinking that ruins a company.
So clearly this is just the trend this year, with everyone getting on that Don’t Show the Thing You Spent Money For train, but why?
So…season 1 was okay, season 2 was rather good (more the first half), and I hadn’t got to Season 3 yet…just like I hadn’t quite got through the last season of Westworld…if these shows don’t get to air their endings there’s no chance I will watch any part of them, but if they finish it up there’s a chance I will…and they are all still better than many a show…they are basically dooming the early seasons of these shows to complete worthlessness even moreso than if their ending had just well sucked like LOST’s.
Season 3 of “Snowpiercer” kind of goes off the rails a bit but it’s better than the last season of “Westworld” (which I liked much better than the previous one but that’s not saying a lot)
Good to hear about Minx – it’s fabulous. As for Snowpiercer – eh and bleh. I really struggled to give a shit about any of it but I had already invested time and if I fast forwarded through some of the crap, I figured I could finish it, knowing it was the last season, I’d stick it out for the ending. I guess if it ends up on a streaming service I already have, I’d watch the end there but no way I’d pay for it.
It’s on Netflix in Canada, weekly episodes too. You’d think they’d pick it up internationally
oh no what will all three snowpiercer fans do now
Right now there must be a bunch of entertainment lawyers inserting “scrapping” penalties into their clients’ contracts to avoid these situations in the future or at least ensure there is some sort of financial benefit for creators/actors when they commit months/years to something that is never seen. (Yes, while creators and actors get baseline pay either way, they lose high profile exposure from the airing of finished work, which is crucial for securing future deals.)
So why would any creator put any effort whatsoever into making content for WB from here on out? Just slap something together and milk as many paychecks for the crew as you can. Chances are, nobody will see it anyway. Right?
Alternate headline: TNT Puts Snowpiercer on Ice
Hi Everyone, I am just as annoyed as I’m sure a lot of you are by the news that season 4 will not be aired, I have no idea if it will make a difference but i have made a petition to get it aired, have no idea if it will even reach TNT, but we have to try. We have to know what happens, and it would be such a shame for the cast’s hard work to go to waste. (https://chng.it/MCBTKvs7hy)
I only ever watched the movie. Is the punchline still “babies taste best”?
I will not show up and not appear in something that isn’t going to air for scale. I am offer only.
Where I live, we usually don’t do that with our national/local TV shows. Sure, some shows are cancelled after one season sometimes, but other shows are either prolonged until their natural end, or are at least renewed for one last season. I discovered the weird behaviours of American’s TV networks when I started following American original broadcasts of TV shows like Blindspot and Limitless. It seems like U.S.A. forgot the meaning of “Art” and “Culture”; everything has to be an “Industry” and a “business”.
Snowpiercer’s a really cool show, but did you notice they never get anywhere? They just keep snow-piercing.
I really hope it doesn’t wind up on Starz or another streaming service unless it’s one of the main ones (Netflix, Hulu, Amazon Prime). Not interested in subscribing to another service just for a single show I want to watch and then canceling after it’s over (looking at you Peacock & Paramount+)
Other media companies will almost certainly pick up most of these shows that TWD is tossing in the trash. Netflix would happily take on some of these shows and brand them as “Originals,” especially when they didn’t have to invest anything into actually making them.
This is good. the people who make TV shows deserve to be punished. next we move on to the people who watch them
They’re probably burning the furniture at WB hq to heat the offices instead of paying their utility bill.
I’m just really interested in what their vision for HBO Max (or whatever the hell they choose to call it) is, exactly who they think is up for it and what that market looks like. They’ve killed a very substantial part of the reasons why I even watch the channel, and have left it so it will be far more financially wise for me to subscribe for maybe one to two months a year, binge what I want and then get the hell out of dodge. The days where each change of seasons bring along/back something I believe to be worth waiting for are over. And yes, I’m still wicked pissed about Westworld.