Batwoman has had one of the stronger first seasons to come out of the Arrowverse shows. Kate Kane has had to deal with a psychotic sister back from the dead, on top of becoming Gotham’s newest vigilante. But after the solid midseason finale and that massive crossover, “How Queer Everything Is Today!” is a little underwhelming. Still, the episode does offer a few pleasant surprises, along with Kate still struggling with the whole hero thing, and a guarantee this season is about to get even more complicated.
Back at the beginning of the season, when Kate first donned the cowl and cape, she struggled with having to hide her identity, given that her whole existence up until that point was about being out and proud. But Kate’s secrecy about her double life as Batwoman was intended to protect her family from the fallout of her nocturnal, crime-fighting activities. Now, there’s an issue of Batwoman’s queerness—or lack thereof.
Batwoman wasn’t meant to be a device that shoved Kate back in the closet, if she ever was in one, but it now feels like that to her. She’s very, very gay, as she points out in this episode, so her frustration at the erasure of her sapphic preferences is understandable, and exacerbated by the fact that Gotham is ’shipping her and one of the boys in blue. It seems a little silly at first, but when looking back on who she is and her new title as a Paragon of Courage, Kate’s decision to let more more of Batwoman’s true self (and, by extension, her own) shine through clicks into place, aided by Parker’s storyline.
At first, Parker’s devious cyber-hacking to get attention from her parents for being outed as gay is a little extreme, just as Kate’s desire to establish Batwoman’s sexuality started as a bit corny. But when those two are combined, it is relatable to a certain extent to real-life situations of hiding who you authentically are. Sure, gay teens aren’t hacking their mayor’s credit card info (that we know of), but it’s a superhero-sized equivalence to what gay teens do to cope with lack of acceptance. Queerness is hard to come to terms with, even with a sound support system. Luke makes a good point about not giving Batwoman so many of Kate’s characteristics, but in the end, her coming out saved even more of Gotham than she already does with a Batarang.
Batwoman also shows a newer side to Mouse and Alice’s relationship. Up until this point, Mouse has been a doting yet aggressive partner to Alice; a true, idolizing brother-figure. While Mouse has had his moments of doubt with Alice, he’s been very much on her side of things. But now that their Mad Tea Party went off without a hitch, Alice is angry Kate doesn’t see it as the blessing she intended—and Mouse is not having it. It’s fascinating to see him share such sane realizations with her when he and Alice are usually very much the opposite. He most likely is making so much sense and being rational—duh, killing Mary’s mom and imprisoning their father isn’t going to make Kate jump for joy—because he wants all of Alice’s attention on him. Alice, of course, is not going to accept the fact that Kate is turning on her.
Speaking of which, Kate is truly, finally, over Alice. It took Catherine’s death and the framing of Jacob to make her see Alice’s true self, but Kate is done trying to bring Beth back. The end of “Mad Tea Party” really showed her anger towards the situation and the second metaphorical death of her sister. This time around, Kate is just determined. She’s ready to grovel to Mary and make up for everything. She’s also decided to shut Alice down—not in hopes of revitalizing her sister, but to end her.
And poor Mary. Our favorite character is grieving and juggling so much to stay away from facing it all. Unfortunately, everyone is just telling her to “see someone” or talk to someone, instead of talking through things with her themselves. Even though Kate will forever be making up for her role in Catherine’s death, and she knows it, she doesn’t do enough at first. After dodging that girl all season when Mary just wanted a sister, Kate has so to make up for.
The last reveal is nothing short of genius. Not only does Beth’s return allow for some juicy and emotional hangups with Alice in the future, but it also shows that the series will have significant fallout from Crisis On Infinite Earths. It’s also a way to keep Rachel Skarsten tied to the show, and keep other characters around longer and in different ways, if that’s what they decide to do. Kate is going to have to pick up the pieces, with Jacob still in prison and Catherine’s death so fresh. Throw in new-Beth, and it’s getting really complicated. Alice is in custody, too, but heaven knows she won’t be for long.
Stray observations:
- Having Kara Danvers as the reporter to break Batwoman’s story is not only friendship goals, but also just a perfect way to tie in the fact that they share the same Earth now, and also a great way to tell the world she’s a lesbian. Kara Ace Reporter strikes again!
- It was such a sweet moment to hear Jacob Kane tell Mary how he was never going to lose her as a daughter. Finally, Mary gets some much-needed (and deserved) emotional validation!
- It’s awesome that Batwoman is showing the fallout from Crisis On Infinite Earths. It seemed like maybe this show wouldn’t be as affected by the universes consolidating into Earth Prime, but that’s obviously not the case. It might cause headaches moving forward, though. Are there multiple Kates too? Multiple Batwomen or Bruce Waynes running around?
- Hopefully, Kate getting Beth back doesn’t change her desire to show Mary how much she cares for her as a sister, not just a step-sibling. Mary really needs Kate’s emotional support and has always craved that connection. To lose it now would destroy her further. Unfortunately, we’ve seen what happens with Kate is sidetracked by Beth before. Let’s see if she can have less tunnel vision when it comes to her siblings.
160 Comments
– That cop guy (Slam something) showing up all the time can’t just be coincidence.
– When even Mouse thinks you’re crazy.
– If J’onn restored all of these other people’s memories, why didn’t he do Luke’s?
– That doctor again. Hmmmmmm…
– Wow. “Batwoman” just calling out other shows like that.
– “Can we keep politics out of our superheroes?” Is Vesper a member of the Million Moms?
– Well, that was out of left field. I have no idea where we go from there.
– If J’onn restored all of these other people’s memories, why didn’t he do Luke’s? Well according to tonight’s Supergirl, he could risk (literally) blowing their minds. Plus, there’s no real need to give the full mind-whammy to Luke, since it’s not like his status quo was drastically changed. Wayne Enterprises isn’t a LuthorCorp subsidiary now or anything. I guess maybe they could show him that world where he lives with old Bruce and takes casual Friday a little too casual, but what’s the point?
That cop guy (Slam something) showing up all the time can’t just be coincidence.I thought the twist was going to be that he was engineering disasters to make himself look like a hero.
That’s what I thought, too.
The politics line was a joke because the actress is Rachel Maddow a political reporter
No, it’s a joke because heterosexual relationships aren’t seen as political, but homosexual ones are. You see it all the time with, “Why are they shoving the gay agenda down my throat?”
Kara writing that article was such a nice and subtle reveal. And Mary seeing Beth at Gotham U was a real clever way to introduce her since I know I thought it was Mouse creating a diversion.
I thought that too. I was waiting on them to come back to it and then BOOM. Alt-Earth Beth.
I kept waiting for the reveal that Beth, and the professor before her, were both Mouse deliberately messing with her to further cement the plot against Jacob.
Where did Beth go though? Someone was in her dorm room so she left, but where did she hang out the rest of the episode?And how old is Beth supposed to be if she thinks she has a dorm room at Gotham University?
Presumably Beth is a grad student?
Grad students don’t typically live in dorm rooms though. But I guess it’s possible.
I don’t see why a billionaire would have a dorm in the same city where she lives with her family. So I am thinking that may be she was just visiting someone.
Beth specifically complains to Kate late in the episode that her apartment had somehow been transformed into dorm rooms, which she thought was some kind of remodel but more likely was due to Crisis earth-changing shenanigans
Oh, I did not catch that. Thank you!
I wonder if her bank account transferred with her…LOL…But seriously I remember a panel where Helena Wayne (Earth 2 Huntress) went ‘home’ to a merged Earth only to realize her keys didn’t work and it was no longer her apartment. Maybe will get a similar scenario when Beth explains herself?
-Awww, assholes are harassing Mary online.-Poor Luke, Kate is an IT nightmare.-We really shouldn’t be surprised the Crows torture prisoners, should we?-Kate, it is a really bad idea to use Batwoman to play your ex’s confidant here. Speaking of Sophie, can she maybe go talk to Kelly Olsen now that they’re on the same Earth?-LOL at Luke’s reaction to Crisis. Seriously glad she told Luke all about that adventure.-Noo Mary’s giving up on her clinic?-Catco? KARA WROTE BATWOMAN’S COMING OUT ARTICLE?-Kate+Mary hug! Not only does Beth’s return allow for some juicy and emotional hangups with Alice in the future, but it also shows that the series will have significant fallout from Crisis On Infinite Earths. It’s also a way to keep Rachel Skarsten tied to the show, and keep other characters around longer and in different ways, if that’s what they decide to do.Teaser for the next ep looks fun/crazy.
Wow, I somehow missed that Catco wrote the article. I love it so much! You just know Kara had to be involved somehow.
I am super hyped for whatever mini-crossover we’re getting later this season.
*Raises hand* Same! While I enjoyed the Barry / Oliver crossovers they were never appointment viewing for me. Kate and Kara being fabulous and generally showing how to be good at this hero gig (seriously, the boys kinda sucked at that bit…) all while flirting / being embarrassed respectively? That’s full on booking the day off work territory.
Kara wrote the article:
Wow, I really wasn’t paying attention. That’s so perfect it fills me with glee.
I didn’t notice during the episode, but someone posted this picture on Twitter and that’s when I saw it.
“What’s next for Lena? Lena Luthor spotted in Gotham”Hells yes, this is the kind of post-Crisis shenanigans I am here for!
-Poor Luke, Kate is an IT nightmare.Ain’t that the truth! Has she learned nothing from Q’s stupidity in Skyfall?
I didn’t watch the Batwoman Crisis episode (or any other Crisis episode). Is there anything I might’ve missed that I need to know before resuming the series?
Conroy Bruce showed up. But he’s the dark bitter version that kills.He even uses the BVS line “The world only makes sense if you force it too.”
That’s a line from Frank Miller’s TDKR, not BvS.
Yeah, they set it up so you think he’s playing the “Kingdom Come” Batman (the one who did have a robot-exo-skeleton) but then, PSYCHE! He’s a more vicious version of the DKR Batman, because he managed to kill his world’s Superman, and all his villains. Even keeping their weapons and stuff (like Clark’s glasses) as trophies.
Nope
Based off the end of this episode, there’s gonna be at least a few tie ins to Crisis. If you don’t watch any of the other Arrowverse shows you’re probably gonna also be confused when those characters start showing up; Supergirl was already name dropped.
Luke is jacked. Hopefully it comes up again.
They should give my boy some slimmer clothes!!
A bunch of alternate universes got merged so it’s a good bet the Beth we see at the end is from one of those other ones.
The CW shows are now on the same Earth, which means we can expect Batwoman to have the occasional crossover with Supergirl. Which is great because Kate and Kara had some fantastic chemistry during Crisis.*edit* For example, Kate at the end was reading Catco magazine, and Batwoman’s interview about being a lesbian was written by Kara.
The biggest takeaway is that the worlds of Supergirl, Flash/Arrow/Batwoman/Legends, and Black Lightning have all been merged into one Earth. As revealed at the end of tonight’s episode, that results in multiple versions of the same person running around on the same Earth. There might be some other fallout from Crisis, but that will likely mostly affect Flash and Supergirl since they usually deal with that kind of stuff.
An odd curiosity question if I’m allowed. So relatively early to this show I just accepted it wasn’t for me, with especially Rose’s performance kind of killing any interest I might have had, and decided to just follow it intermittantly while keeping up with the reviews here. As the reviews here have at least felt really positive and putting over Rose, I was under impression that I was in the clear minority which is completely fine as these things are as subjective as it gets.However, recently I, by accident, ran in to claims that the show’s general response has actually been much more mixed with especially criticism towards Rose. And a brief glance at Metacritic and such seems to support that. So I was interested if there were people here who felt more capable than me in explaining what the overall reception to the show has been?
This isn’t to prove myself more right or argue the reviews here have been too positive. It’s rather an attempt to recalibrate my assumptions on the shows success as up until that point I had thought, based on the coverage here and the mentions in a few other places, that the show had been a pretty big success story when it comes to critical response.
Rose has really settled in to the role, in my opinion. And the series itself has been consistently good – easily the best of this Arrowverse season so far.
I think Rose is the weakest part of the show, but she’s acceptable. The plot on the other hand has been weak as hell. What should have been a four episode arc at most has only now been kind of tied up 10 episodes in (well, 9 to be fair, taking out the crossover ep). The whole “Alice is evil, but she’s also my sister, so I’m gonna let her walk away one more time…” thing has been just awful. And it looks like things might be getting interesting with new-Beth, thank God, but Alice should have been done with a long time ago. Hopefully we can do something new now….Although, I’ve been watching the Arrowverse shows from the start so I know that won’t happen. There’s a formula: They have one villain per season and every episode until the finale is either filler or the hero failing to catch the villain. Well, that is, unless the one villain gets caught by the good guy and then reveals that there is in fact a larger villain that they’re just a pawn of. But since Alice wasn’t caught at the midseason finale, well then, she’s the arc villain, so she will be out again.tl;dr: Rose is weak but acceptable and hopefully will get better with time. The plot/writing of the show itself is the weakest part, it desperately needs to improve, especially if they’re gonna try and do this for more seasons.
The whole “Alice is evil, but she’s also my sister, so I’m gonna let her walk away one more time…” thing has been just awful. And it looks like things might be getting interesting with new-Beth, thank God, but Alice should have been done with a long time ago. Hopefully we can do something new now.Oh my god, so much this! Like this episode, she’s killed your step mom and imprisoned your father, and you’re SAYING that you’re done with her. But you’re still just going to just STAND there and DO NOTHING when you’re literally inches away from her.
I feel like it’s hard to say, to be honest. From what I can tell, io9 and IGN have both generally been positive. Rottentomatoes has it at a decent (if not spectacular) score. Personally, I tend to trust Metacritic’s metrics less when it comes to tv (I think they’re better at gauging video games).To be honest, I do think the show has some disadvantages. To be clear, I’m not talking about professional critics here. But I remember the sheer amount of scorn and disdain it got well before it had even debuted – largely aimed at Ruby Rose. I felt like people were looking for reasons to hate it without even watching the pilot. Also, I’ve glanced at imdb scores when looking up cast members and they’re abysmal. But iirc, imdb user scores have been proven to largely be voted on by young white males. And this show, with a gay woman as its lead, only a couple male cast members, and a split ratio on white characters/people of color characters, is just about the most uninterested live-action property there is in courting the straight, young, white male audience.My personal feeling is that it’s had just about the strongest run of debut episodes of any Arrowverse show. I enjoy the whole cast, they have a great central conflict in Kate and Beth/Alice, it knows how to bring the funny, the history of the Kanes (even with the superhero trappings) is grounded, poignant, and heartbreaking. And Rose has settled comfortably in the role. Imo, it’s already a pretty great show.(And if you want a good taste of what this show is up against, just scan through the comments section of any IGN review. It is a toxic cesspool.)
Yeah, the reception for this show is seemingly much more divided that I personally had assumed. Hence the reason for my question on the general critical reception, especially since I really don’t trust IMDB with these scores. Metacritic and RT are really challenging for me when it comes to shows as I never know if the scores are for the pilots, average of the episode scores so far or first half reviews. It is actually a pretty big problem for TV show aggregate scores in general.However, on the latter part of the comment, I’d argue that issue cuts a little bit both ways. Not the toxicity part, that is such a huge problem in these communities at the moment, but rather that while that representation is held against it in some parts, I also feel that the representation at times causes people to overlook other flaws in the show. While trying to look through different reviews, I realized that sites that have been more vocal about the queer representation also seem to be more positive on this show.Having written that, I don’t think that means those positive opinins are somehow less valid as metareasons will always affect how one views a TV show.
I’m a bit more lukewarm on the show, myself; I’ve never had a problem with Ruby Rose in the central role (she comes off a little detached, withholding. and isolated from people, but for me that feels right for the character) but other than Mary and occasionally Luke, the rest of the cast has been stiff and unconvincing. I don’t believe Dougray Scott as Kate’s father, Elizabeth Anweis as her stepmother (R.I.P.), or especially Meagan Tandy as her lost love — the lack of chemistry between them comes into sharp relief every time the show thrusts them together and asks us to get invested in their star-crossed will-they-or-won’t-they.Lastly, and most importantly for this first half-season, I did not (and still don’t) like Beth/Alice as a villain at all because I don’t find her interesting or intimidating; she’s basically a homicidal theater kid begging for an audience, and her grievance is entirely personal, which has never been my favorite flavor of villainy. Her besotted co-conspirator Mouse calling her out as too crazy-pants even for him was among my favorite moments for either character so far this season — but the introduction of a new Beth who isn’t constantly overacting is certainly a welcome shake-up of the status quo, and I’m interested to see where that goes.All that having been said, the action has been well-done as always, Gotham feels like Gotham, and the representation piece of the puzzle is clearly deeply felt, and usually comes out in ways that feel natural and character-driven rather than loaded on top of unrelated stories to “check boxes.” I’d say the show started as a C-minus and has been working its way toward C-plus territory. Absent something truly horrendous, I plan to keep watching.
Beth/Alice…is basically a homicidal theater kid begging for an audienceUpvoted for that – perfect summation of her personality!
The pure toxicity of insecure little white boys is getting in the way of fair criticism that this show is poorly written, the acting is cringeworthy and that Ruby Rose is off-putting as hell.
You mean like you, Slegewell?Good-Bye.
So I was interested if there were people here who felt more capable than me in explaining what the overall reception to the show has been?Ruby Rose was…rough…at first. She was very stilted and wooden which, for the Batwoman part of the show, made sense. For the Kate Kane parts of it, however, it just came off as she was trying too hard to be emotional when needed. Ruby has gotten better as the season goes on though. Her parts in Crisis and even tonights episode show a vast improvement over the first half of the season
You would swear that the sole purpose of this show is to make this man have a stroke. Like the show or hate it, watching his reviews is hilarious!
Okay, when I first saw the start of your comment, I was so confused as I thought you were referring to me and thus I was trying to figure out have I really been that negative on it. Especially since after my initial criticism on Rose’s casting, which I still stand by, I didn’t think I had been that vocal on any discussions here.So I was relieved to see the link in the full comment, even though I do hope I had checked it out before going through all the previous review sections to confirm was I really remembering my participation that wrong.
Yeah, sorry about that. I really could have worded that better. My apologies for any aspersions cast upon you. Or, as the kids (used to) say, My bad.
Absolutely no need for apologies, for some reason Kinja was just freaking out and not allowing me to link to the comment and thus I only saw the text part. It is legitimately funny now as for a moment I was doubting myself and wondering if I hadn’t realized how overwhelmingly negative I had been on the show.
Rose has been… fine. She’s no Benoist or Amell, but could be far worse. Though she IS still the least expressive of the main cast.IMO, the biggest weakness of the show is that it is so hyper-focused on Kate and Beth/Alice that it completely derails any attempt to establish Batwoman as a superhero in her own right. Over a year has passed in-universe since Episode 1, but we’ve only had one episode not dealing with Alice, and she still got herself involved.
MeagBlastoise, Stephen Amell was pretty wooden himself in the early going — his main advantages were that he came alive in the action scenes, and was doing so many of his own stunts that it was breathtaking. One of the resasons Emily Bett Rickards’s Felicity Smoak got pushed forward so fast was because she was the first woman Amell’s Oliver/GA had any chemistry with (the attempts in the early seasons to push him and Katie Cassidy as a One True Pairing was — just no, don’t bother), and her character hit the ground running as a Cute Jewish Girl Nerd.
Ruby Rose is still really bad, IMO. My wife, who has only seen very small bits and pieces of the show so far, watched with me tonight and couldn’t stop doing a (quite good) impression of how Rose never opens her mouth all the way when she talks. It makes her dialogue sound really flat. Rachel Skarsten, however, is a revelation, and Alice is the most entertaining part of the show. She acts circles around everyone she’s in a scene with, and for the first time in a while I don’t want a main villain to go away on one of these shows. The dialogue for everyone is overwritten and obvious, but since Alice is a madwoman putting on a show at all times, this works for her while sounding unnatural for everyone else. Even Mary, whom I otherwise like, was really off-putting tonight since her dialogue was so poor.
“The Mad Tea Party” was the best episode of the season, but this episode shows that the show still has a lot of work to do. The ending is super intriguing, but it has me wishing more than ever that Rachel Skarsten were playing both main roles—for one thing, she and Rose don’t even look related, let alone like twins.
I’m not a Ruby Rose fan. She was terrible in Orange is The New Black. It does seem like she took a couple of acting classes along the way, but still has a long way to go.I’m watching to see if she improves and will probably continue to watch for the possible crossovers. I wasn’t a Flash fan at first, but still watched for the Arrow crossovers and ended up loving the show as time went by.
The Critical Drinker does a fantastic job of describing this God awful show.
It’s… fine. I watched Supergirl for 2 seasons before finally pulling the ripcord on that show, so I think I can at least give this one a full season before passing judgement. So far, it’s not making a great case to keep my eyeballs for the second season. But then, I think Legends is the only show to successfully make that argument. I’ve kept watching Flash only because I’m an unabashed fan of the character.
I haven’t seen many people who love it. It’s mostly been “It’s pretty strong but it has its flaws”I think Rose is pretty tough. She’s gotten better but she really needs to get to the part that every Arrowverse show gets to and give her a team because she really needs people to play off.I’ve seen a lot of praise for Alice but I think the show needs to shift focus away from her. This back and forth of “I want to save her so I’ll let her go” and “She’s too far gone, I need to stop her” isn’t interesting and it just makes it hard to have the hero of the show responsible for all the deaths that she could have stopped.I expect Alice to eventually become the Token Evil Teammate which I’m really not excited to see since it makes it hard to view some villains are irredeemable monsters when you have a character you’re supposed to root for and care about who has done just as much, if not worse.
I think Mary is easily the best character on the show and I really just want her to discover who Kate is and join Team Batwoman.
I’m not sure what the overall response has been, but I would recommend that you don’t worry about it. Personally, I consider Batwoman the best-written Arrowverse show, and it’s only my second-favorite, rather than top pick, because I prefer the lighter tone of the Flash to the Grimdark of the Batverse. Characters are flawed, of course, but still smart enough to be human (no dragging out a revelation over five episodes that the audience gets in one, for instance). Occasionally they do silly, cliched things like “swap who’s in the costume to trick people into not learning my identity” — it is, after all, still a comic show — but overall the character dynamics are wonderful. We get empathetic, if totally twisted and psychopathic, motivations for the villains (and damn, Skarsten plays crazy SO WELL). Etc. etc.But now we arrive at my point: *I* personally love the show, but that doesn’t mean you have to or that you will. Same goes for any review or any aggregate reception. Everyone is different; my advice is always to ignore what “everyone” thinks about how good or bad a piece of fiction is and just form your opinions after watching it yourself.
I don’t understandthe hype on here with any of the CW superhero shows. They all come across like unwatchable B movies. I’ve tried watching all of them at one point or another and I just can’t get past the bad.. well, everything.
Just skimming reviews on both RT and IMDB, seems like everyone hates it.
She has admirable swagger and some chemistry w/ her co-stars, but not much expressive range, and kind of only one or two modes of line delivery, so they have to lean into using Mary and Alice for a lot of the emotional heavy lifting. Overall though, I think it works.
tbh Im still sort of disappointed we didn’t get gratuitous, all-the-women-in-endgame-style LGBT pandering Charlies Angels style posed shot of Kate, Alex and Sara during Crisis.
A bit heavy handed but the message is quite true. I liked the kid too and would have been fine with her sticking around as part of the group.
I still have big problems with how the midseason finale ended, namely the lack establishment in regards to the Kane-Hamiliton family members relationships to each other. Jacob and Mary talking to each other about their relationship does mean much whenever they’ve never really interacted with each other before. They need to work on that.
That’s a fair criticism. I do agree it would’ve served both Jacob and Mary better if they’d interacted enough before to get a sense of their relationship.Still, it says a lot that, even while in prison for not-murdering his wife, he’s still worried about her mental state.
I bet/hope the kid comes back once in a while. Kate did offer to be there to talk.
I have a feeling that’s not the last we’ll see of the kid. She may become Luke’s backup. Unless Kate gives her a scholarship to an out of state college, which I thought was what would be in that packet she handed her. That was the motive, to get enough money to get away.
A tiny voice in my head shouted Oracle when they first tracked her down, especially if Luke decides he needs to get out into the field down the line.
Same here. I thought Kate was going to let her know that there’s a job waiting for her down the line.
-Hee hee, Luke signs all his texts with bat emojis.
-I like the idea of the conflict here for Parker needing validation, but that scene with her and Kate in the bathroom was just a little too on the nose.
-I thought it was a little strange Alice didn’t think to check what message Parker sent out.
-Pairing Sophie with Mary is just about the best use of her character. I love the idea of them being friends. (I’ll just ignore the eyeroll-inducing scene between her and Batwoman.)Yeah, it was a bit more corny than usual, but I still enjoyed it anyway.
I think Alice and Kate did both look at their phones, and I assumed in advance that she sent one message to the two of them (or only Alice) and the other to everybody else. But since they didn’t address it, maybe not?
It showed that Alice got a “Batwoman is Kate Kane” message while everyone else got a “Alice has a bomb at the school” text.
I liked Sophie better this episode and now I realize I missed the one scene she had with Batwoman. Probably not a coincidence. She and Mary make good confidants and they both seem closer to Jacob than Kate is. Just wish they’d show Sophie in something besides her work clothes. It’s like she only owns two outfits.
Parker is a super-hacker, and could make it appear that she sent one message while actually sending another.
Alice’s phone showed “Batwoman revealed as billionaire Kate Kane.” Kate’s and everyone else’s said Alice was there with a bomb.
If Sophie is now Mary’s BFF and confidante and protector, I take back everything I have said and thought about her being useless & I hope she stays on the show, since Mary being happy is mostly what I want for the show ( that is basically what the show is about right?)
By the eyeroll-inducing scene, you mean the bit where the woman who claims to be bisexual is told she’s just lying to herself, and she admits that that might be true but she’s too scared to admit she’s really gay?Yeah, that’s a good look for a supposedly progressive show. Really, the whole Sophie storyline feels like it’s written by someone who teleported here from, say, the 1980s.It would also have helped if the main lecture plot had leant more on the “inspiring others through visibility” angle, and less on the “but I mustn’t hide my identity! Despite literally hiding my identity!” angle, which seems to rely too much on the old “this person is gay, therefore their Gay Identity is the most important thing in their lives” trope which, again, I’d have hoped a show as overtly progressive as this one would have evolved beyond.
[come to think of it, it’s disappointing how little the CW shows as a whole have been willing to engage with the mask-as-roleplay angle of the genre. In many stories, there’s an exploration of how the masks allow vigilantes to explore other (often more dangerous and unpleasant) sides of themselves, taking on roles and behaviours they’re not comfortable with in their ‘real’ lives; there’s none of that here. In the CW shows, the mask is always just costuming and a “will people find out? should I tell them?” melodrama pump, not seriously affecting the characters at all (except maybe Arrow S1). It would have been interesting to see, for example, a Batwoman in which Kate Kane was (apparently) straight, but Batwoman was (apparently) gay. Although of course I can see why there’s a virtue in having a show in which the protagonist’s homosexuality is not the source of drama or deceit.]
Y’know, while I’m normally a fan of subtle messaging I’ve actually warmed to this sort of slightly heavy handed approach over the years. If you’re in a particular situation deep enough there’s times when a message spelled out in eighty foot high neon letters can work far better than a gentle word of encouragement.
Asking your friend to help you by writing an article was one of thiose little things I’m hoping to happen more on these shows. Those little connections. I really hope Black Lightning does the same – they had a whole plot about getting information out and there is just so many journalists among those heroes and their SO.
Kate is now friends with a shapeshifter, you think that might come in handy proving reasonable doubt in her father’s murder trial where their contention is somebody faked his identity,
She also has two twins evil and non-evil one. And then there is the tech aliens use to look human. Basing guilt on a person looking like someone should not be admissible in court on that planet.
There’s an issue of Astro City that’s this point, in great detail. In a world where doubles exists, and mind control exists, defense lawyers have a pile of new kinds of reasonable doubt to bring in.
Yeah, merging with Supergirl’s earth brings in a ton of alien races that may be capable of shape shifting, plus a wide array of image inducers. Now we’re truly in the realm of comics, where certain characters in other cities/comics/shows could solve others’ problems easily, but they don’t unless they’re explicitly in a team-up.
At this point, the Belantiverse is all but done for me. While before I could avoid some shows because certain elements didn’t fly it’s just one chaotic dumpster fire now.They’ll have to spend half their time explaining why none of the overpowered “super”characters just do everything while the rest takes a vacation.
My hope exactly! Especially since their bond as friends was so good in the ‘Crisis’ episodes!
The comics version of Slam Bradley has been around longer than Superman. He’s usually portrayed as private eye. In the past few decades he’s been involved in Batman and Catwoman stories.
That was super cool to have him pop up, now lets get some of Gotham Central’s finest in here too.
In the modern era he’s also usually portrayed as a gruff man in his 50s, so of course the CW had to make him look like Chris Evans, and then say that in the text a million times.
Could be Slam Bradley, Jr., following his old man’s example into a career in law enforcement.
I, for one, have gotten extremely tired of the endless repetitions of the Alice/Kate scene (“You’re my sister/You’re not my sister”) with no variation. I can only hope the writers start giving us some kind of variation, because having that scene every week is really tiresome. (I also hope Rose’s “American” accent gets better and that the showrunners realize Rachel Maddow can’t act, but that’s too much to expect.)
Is Mary living in her clinic now? Doesn’t she have an apartment?
I suppose it’s been seized by the cops, paid for by ill gotten gains from Catherine’s company or something like that.
It may simply be the place she’s most comfortable being in at the moment. Her entire world has been shattered. Hanging out in the place that she was always her true self and where she did good work could be keeping her sane (no matter what all those quack doctors say).
The heavy-handedness of the story surprisingly didn’t bother me. But Batwoman does keep up the CW DC tradition of having a character who annoys me enough that I can’t wait till they get rid of him/her. In this case, I just can’t stand Mouse.
I not only can’t wait for Mouse to be done away with, I need for Alice to be the one to do it, as payback for helping keep her imprisoned all those years
Well that was an unexpected twist! :O Props to the writers for taking advantage of Crisis fallout, especially on their freshman season. Between this and Supergirl, looks like the merging of the Earths wasn’t perfect and there’s more to explore next week. When I saw Catco and Kara did the article was really hoping we’d get an insert of Kara at her desk or something, but even just seeing the new connections now is pretty cool. Didn’t mind the heavy-handedness of the message this week, ended up landing in the heartwarming category when the girl saw the article so I’m giving it a pass. Was that really supposed to be this iteration of Slam Bradley? If so I assume he’s recurring from this point.
So does the multiverse exist or not? The end of the crossover seemed to indicate that it does. It’s just different then what it was before. Tonight’s episodes of Supergirl and Batwoman say the exact opposite. In this ep Luke says that the multiverse collapsed into a single continuum and on Supergirl they explicitly say there is no more multiverse.So which is it…
I think the characters don’t yet realize that the old multiverse merged, but there is now a new one that Oliver & the paragons createdI have to hand it to Kate that she isn’t just casually mentioning to everyone that she is a paragon & a member of the justice league and best friends with Supergirl now
I have the same doubt. My understanding is now that the characters are not aware of the existence of other universes, they believe all them merged in one.
Oh, WE THE AUDIENCE know there’s a new multiverse out there (where TITANS, DOOM PATROL, SWAMP THING, and STARGIRL are separate shows, the GREEN LANTERN CORPS have a world to themselves*, and presumably the DCEU still exists), but the characters on Earth-Prime don’t know. Yet.*EDIT: So does this mean no Green Lanterns on Earth Prime?
Was it a little heavy handed, sure, but I think that was honestly intentional. Sometimes the push back against intolerance does need to be a shove.Loved Kara writing the article and can’t wait to see what the Crisis shenanigans will bring forward.
The first line of the episode (when the commuter train sped up and missed its stop) is a civilian shouting, “Hey Keanu! Some of us got tickets to Jagged Little Pill!”
Good lord.
Since Earths 1, 38 and 73 (Black Lightning Earth) have merged together following Crisis, it makes sense that the new Beth is either the 38 or 73 version, although she won’t remember being anything other than the Earth-P (Prime) version. Since half of 38’s population died, she’s more likely to be the 73 version, but there could still be a third version of Beth on this new Earth. I hope so, anyway. It’s far more satisfying than the idea that all the duplicates merged into one, thus robbing them of the lives and identities they had before.I’m not sure whether 38 Batman was active, but he definitely existed as Kara knew his identity through Clark. I wonder if there are now two or three Bruces and Kates on Earth-P as well.
It is too bad that Kevin Conroy is too old to eventually play the Earth-Prime Bruce in this timeline (I think?)
Nobody really died though (except Ollie). When the universes got wiped out Ollie and the Paragons when back to the beginning of time and re-made the Multiverse. The 3 billion or so people Supergirl saved now no longer got saved since they weren’t on a separate Earth to begin with. In this new Multiverse. Earth P is a conglomerate of, at least, Earth 1, 38,73 with various people being more like their counter parts from those various Earths. The point is there are no Earth 1, 38 and 73 counter parts as we knew them since the Multiverse was rebuilt from scratch. At least not on a large scale. We do appear to have isolated cases like the doppelganger bar on Supergirl and new Beth.
I would argue (and I think the people on the other earths would also) that in fact trillions of people have died. A perhaps infinite number. Every single person not on Prime Earth is gone, vanished. Basically every single character that wasn’t the paragons are dead. Oliver created a new universe from scratch. Yes it is populated by people who look and are like the people from the past, but they are new people, new creations.I know that this being CW, that’s a little too heavy to go into in any of the shows. But it is what happened.
I think in the previews for next week there’s something along the line of Kate saying “I got my wish.” Which suggests that New-Beth was created out of Kate’s desire for a Beth who didn’t go crazy during the whole “reboot the universe” thing.
But, still, I wouldn’t rule out Mouse* in a “Beth” mask, or Alice in disguise as her “good” self while Mouse-disguised-as-Alice in the Crow holding cell. He’s good at that.*Keeping with the Wonderland theme for the gang, was there a “Mouse” in any of those books?
Since Earths 1, 38 and 73 (Black Lightning Earth) have merged together following Crisis, it makes sense that the new Beth is either the 38 or 73 version, although she won’t remember being anything other than the Earth-P (Prime) version. Since half of 38’s population died, she’s more likely to be the 73 version, but there could still be a third version of Beth on this new Earth. I hope so, anyway. It’s far more satisfying than the idea that all the duplicates merged into one, thus robbing them of the lives and identities they had before.
I hope we see more of Parker. I’m glad that Kate didn’t just shrug off what she did, and actually served up a real punishment for her. I still hope to see her in future episodes. This feels like the start of Kate being a mentor to someone, but not the same way Bruce would mentor young men. He always came from a negative place of pain. Whereas Kate is trying to bring positivity from pain, and I feel Parker is another good way to show that.That scene near the end when Kate and Mary hug? Instant waterworks.I’m not ready to attribute the reemergence of “Beth” to fallout from Crisis. I feel occums razor here says this is another one of Alice’s plans to screw with Kate’s head.
Second the punishment bit. It’s so frustrating how heroes always seem to think there’s a strict dichotomy between “kill” (and/or “imprison in solitary confinement for life” depending on the hero) and “allow to go free and possibly become best friends with”, with absolutely no option in between…
I’m 15 minutes into the new Supergirl and I take back what I said at the end of my previous comment. NOW I’m willing to believe the new Beth is a result of Crisis.
We almost needed the Supergirl episode first to clarify that Universe Remnants is a thing.
Good to know — I normally only watch Legends and Batwoman, but looks like I should check out Supergirl too (if I want to be less confused…..)
One of the real joys of the shared CWVerse is the little meta moments. Case in point Kara’s new boss tells her she needs to do ‘lowbrow’ to stretch herself. Kara’s response: a celebrity coming out article… which just so happens to be with the new leading light of Gotham and (one suspects) leans quite heavily on the positive social aspects of the story. Suspect the cheery smugness on submission might have been on par with informing idiot man in black he was off to Antarctica during Invasion. For that matter I really, REALLY want to see that ‘interview’… what are we thinking, about equal thirds actual interview, brainstorming how to keep some separation between Kate and Batwoman and shameless flirting?Very glad we’re getting a series two of Batwoman, it’s certainly proving itself to be its own entity in the CW canon and the main cast is clicking nicely. One small detail that, IMO, doesn’t get enough praise is Ruby’s acting in the suit. She’s really bringing the Bat side to life in a way that very few have done once they’re stuck under the cowl. (I’m also deliberately not mentioning the Catco cover of Batwoman’s coming out *also* featuring “Lena Luthor spotted in Gotham”. Nope, definitely not pointing that one out. Ahem).
I have never seen this show but the terrible wig in the picture accompanying this story drew me in. Party City-level. That is all.
– How exactly did Batwoman’s bike not bump up and down constantly on the train tracks? – Didn’t even think of this before, but are the Batmobile and Batwing still around?- Somebody give Mary a hug. – “For a man to resemble another man? It’s science-fiction, Mary.” Yea, just like two super ultra strong aliens, a shape-shifting Martian, and a guy who can move faster than the speed of sound.- I was actually decently enjoying the episode until Alice got involved. I said this before, but I seriously need a break from Alice. – I’m…sorry. Did Barry help out? How the hell did Kate get over to the school and save Slam in the .05 seconds between the button being hit and the bomb going off? – I’m a little surprised they made Parker so young. That means she can’t be a love interest for Kate like every other woman on this show. – I get the whole “Whatever happened to politics staying out of our superheroes?” line, but with the merged Earths, I would assume that previous seasons of Supergirl still happened, which likely means Marsden was still an alien who became President, somebody like Trump had influence in the government, and the whole Agent Liberty business still happened. Kinda long since missed the boat there.- Speaking of which, are there any aliens living in Gotham? I can’t understand why they WOULD, but just curious.
– How exactly did Batwoman’s bike not bump up and down constantly on the train tracks? Don’t you think Lucius would know how to design super shock absorbers?
They literally live in a country in which a quango dedicated to saving the world from alien invasions is so famous that it runs TV ads (complete with two billionaires and a levitating superhero from another planet). “It sounds like science fiction!” is not something anyone in this world should be saying.Really suggests they shouldn’t have merged the worlds. It’s nice having the characters be able to see each other more easily, but the two worlds are/were just SO different…
In fairness, the prior CW worlds often didn’t make much sense if you stopped and thought about all the implications, so in some ways this doesn’t change anything!
Sadly, that’s true. In particular, it’s always been weird that every metahuman in the world gravitates to Central City, and hardly ever thinks to move to Star City (also, they’re all evil, and none of them are celebrities).
But I think it’s way more extreme when you add in that this world has been attacked by an alien spacefleet, that the president was an alien, and so forth.
“I’m a little surprised they made Parker so young. That means she can’t be a love interest for Kate like every other woman on this show.”Mary and Beth/Alice are love interests for Kate?
Kara Ace Reporter strikes again!
Again? This is like the first time in a season and a half we’ve seen actual physical output from CatCo. That said I’m glad that Kate was smart enough to take the story to Kara. I’m sure that’s why she was lounging around in the Superflat so soon after the Crisis. Ahem.
I freeze framed the CatCo magazine cover and want to read ‘what now for Lena Luthor’ 😀How far is Gotham from a National City? Are there no Gotham magazines?Presumably the Crisis reset that saw Alice now Beth, will put Kate’s Batwoman identity secret again?Love Mary!
I think CatCo is a nation-wide, if not world-wide, media conglomerate. Like TIME or The Economist magazines in our world.
CatCo Worldwide is a national, if not global magazine. For reference, National City is in California and Gotham is in New Jersey.
It’s fascinating the shows (maybe the others?) are using dopplegangers, as it shows (at least for now) that the Crisis really has messed with things. If Not Dead Beth is here, does this mean the Jacob in prison remembers her as alive, maybe that Alice is a separate person with a striking resemblance to his Not Dead Beth? Oooooo juicy stuff!Speaking of Alice, she is so much fun. Her theatricality is always on-point, but I especially admire how this veneer can randomly crack to show the desperate, bitter version of Beth underneath.
I just thought of something…what if new Beth was Mouse (with a new face) or Clayface sent to mess with Kate after Alice was captured.
That is what I believe, that the CW is messing with us and our post crisis expectations.
Yeah this is exactly the kind of chaos you get if you unleash shapeshifters into a TV show. They’ll probably take up your idea if the run out of ideas (again).
That was the first thing Kate thought of. That’s why she grabbed at New Beth’s face and pulled her skin. If it had been Mouse that skin would have ripped right off.
How could something called “Bat[person]” ever not be corny?
I have a theory that Mouse is the Alice in jail and the real Alice is the one pretending to be Beth.
Wow. How shocking. They cast Ruby Rose to play a character who turns out to be – *gasp* – GAY?!HOW EDGY.I TOTALLY did not see that coming.
Didn’t watch the last episode or the crossover episodes, but does Jacob know Kate’s Batwoman by now? Will he have a clue when Batwoman outs herself as vegan next week? Or talk about how her red wig is scratchy and uncomfortable as she’s used to having short hair usually?
So conflicting for the comic nerd in me. Happy to see an out and proud LGBT hero, but also loved Fox’s point that disinformation is their friend. I just know there will be the usual CW story where Kate has to hurt a friend by lying to them about her identity… but then I’ll think back to that time she really compromised her secret identity by coming out and risking this friends life in the process.
Dat ending twist, doe. I definitely didn’t see it coming. Also, on first watch I missed the line about “First they turn my apartment into a boys’ dorm…” — that’s actually an exceptionally important line when establishing how Beth fits into Earth Prime…
Post-Crisis saga begins!
They made Marvel references lol.
Cisco has made quite a few Marvel references on The Flash.
Parker’s choices worked for me because she was exactly as dramatic and OTT as many of the actual queer youth Ive worked with, while also being situated in a storyline that augmented that w/ some camp absurdity. I kind of loved it. What bothered me though was the potential implication that she is latinx (her racial identity was ambiguous so I am making this potentially incorrect assumption based upon her last name plus the reference to catholicism). The fact that we now have multiple conservative LGBT-hating black and brown families on this show w/o that narrative being unpacked or examined in any way (Supergirl did a slightttttttly better job w/ it in their Maggie storyline, tho the execution was still sort of cringey and white liberal) is concerning to me.
Ok, can someone explain to me why Mary’s eye witness testimony regarding her mother’s death is so easily dismissed?
She’s the (step)daughter of the defendant. Testimony by family members of the accused is always suspect.“Do you love the accused?”
“Yes!”
“Enough to lie for them under oath?”
“Yes! I mean no!”
Bit the accused ostensibly killed her lifelong mother. I would think that would cancel out that assumption.
He has been her father since … did they get married a year (?) after Beth was kidnapped? It’s not like he just became her step-father less than a year ago. Yes her bond with her real mother is stronger, but he’s been her step-father longer than her birth-father. As far as she’s concerned, he’s her father, especially since we’ve never heard her mention her birth-father before.Do we know if her birth-father died or if her parents divorced? When she’s talking to him on the prison-phone and she says “You were going to divorce her.” you’d think she add “That’s 2 fathers that have divorced my mom” or something like that if her real parents had divorced, so I’m assuming her real father died.
Still she was an eye-witness to the murder. It’s not like she is providing an alibi for his whereabouts. She can testify she survived because of the antidote given to her even though she drank the same champagne. The fact that it’s never mentioned or discussed is odd.
The prosecution can also call everyone in that audience as witnesses who saw the mother tell everyone that she and her husband were committing crimes by putting all of Gotham in danger. Plenty of motive for him to kill her to shut her up.In the end any prosecutor would be able to paint Mary as someone who had just lost her mother and was desperately trying to save the only parent she has left, even concocting an unbelievable story of a face-swapping duplicate. Mary has no proof except her own eyes.
The idea that there would be no trace of any drugs in his system or that there was any tampering with the display also seems highly suspect.The accused is not poor and should have access to a quality lawyer. Absent corruption there is no way he would be in jail pending trial at this point.
In the real world there are drugs that leave no trace in the body. And why would the police test him for drugs? He wasn’t unconscious when they found him.Mere minutes before she was killed she admitted that her and her husband were defrauding the city and committing (white collar) crimes. Her husband is the logical suspect, and he is a definite flight risk, being the head of an elite security force.
You don’t believe they would investigate that as suspicious? It is all way too pat.
You have a husband and wife where the husband has filed for divorce. Then you have the wife admit in front of an audience that the both of them have been ripping off Gotham and been committing (white collar) crimes. It practically screams that he killed her.And the only one with any eyewitness testimony says there is face-swapping involved, which (from what we’ve been told) is unbelievable. And it’s the suspect’s step-daughter. Eyewitness testimony defending the defendant is always suspect, especially when it’s a family member.
Ultimately, it all seems very pat for a suspect who isn’t a poor minority kid.
The majority of the time, when a wife is killed, the husband is the first suspect. And in this instance she had just admitted that the two of them had committed crimes and ripped off the city. In what world is he *not* the prime suspect?
Suspect, sure.
Yes, suspect. As in “the husband was divorcing the wife, she just admitted to an audience that the both of them were ripping Gotham off”. In what world is he not the number one suspect?
I agreed that he would be a suspect. I don’t believe he would be in custody and awaiting trial at this point in the series.
Remember that he has been deliberately framed by Alice, who has manufactured and left behind enough evidence to not only make him a “likely suspect” but a suspect with a bunch of proof that he did it.And again, he is the head of a private security force and very wealthy. He is the definition of a flight risk – no way a judge lets him out on bail.
Nice to have an episode showing the importance of a gay hero, even if a little heavy-handed. But I really wish they would focus on Batwoman’s Jewish-ness, too, as that’s a demographic even less represented on television.
Batwoman: “Oi, vey!”
Count this one under “Stray Observations”: Slam Bradley! He’s a DC Deep Cut, a cop/private eye who’s been in the comics in various forms before Superman. And now he’s in the GCPD. So far, he seems like a well-meaning goofball, but there’s more room for him later on.
The title of this episode is clever as fuck.