Year-end roundtable: How do we feel about Will Smith now?
Almost a year after Will Smith slapped Chris Rock onstage at the 2022 Academy Awards, the moment, and the Academy's response, remains polarizing
Aux News Will Smith
In a series of special year-end roundtable discussions, The A.V. Club looks back at the stories that made the biggest impact on pop culture in 2022.
In March 2022, on stage at the Academy Awards, Chris Rock made a joke about Jada Pinkett-Smith’s shaved head. And then Will Smith slapped him. In terms of facts about what happened, that’s really all there is. But the resulting discourse has occupied the better part of this year, and figures to spill into 2023 as the next Oscar season ramps up. How we feel about the moment, and whether or not we think Smith’s actions were justified, are just some of the elements that keep this conversation alive. Here, A.V. Club staffers talk about the infamous slap and the public’s response.
Mary Kate Carr: Like any pop culture nerd I love when the Oscars can produce an enduring, memorable moment, but this one turned out like a monkey’s paw wish. I’m a Will Smith fan, so I hate that it came at the expense of overshadowing not just the work that he did last year but the work he put out this year as well.
Jack Smart: What I’ve fixated on since March 27, 2022—and I know I’m not the only one—is the dramatic irony of it all. Here’s a guy who works for decades building up a reputation, a brand, truly a legacy as one of Hollywood’s brightest stars and most accomplished Black trailblazers, only to see it all come crashing down with one unthinking impulse. And for that to happen moments, mere minutes before his hard-won apex of that long career, winning the best actor Oscar? Ibsen himself could never have scripted such a tragedy.
Matt Schimkowitz: In the moment, I thought it was a bit. My brain could not process Will Smith, the ultimate Hollywood nice guy, attacking Chris Rock on stage over such hack material. This has to be the most anyone has thought about G.I. Jane since, what, 1998? But the slap has to be the most surreal thing to happen at the Oscars at least since the Moonlight fiasco—though I think the most famous man in the room slapping the second most famous man in the room and then winning an Oscar 10 minutes later is something so truly outside the scope of what anyone thought could happen.
MKC: Moreso than the slap itself, the reaction to it has been fascinating to see unfold over the year. Anecdotally, we’ve talked in the office about how there appears to be a generational divide in the reaction—older viewers seem more scandalized and anti-Smith, while younger viewers seem quicker to forgive and more on his side. I definitely fall in the latter category, and I’m surprised when I read things like THR’s roundup of Oscar voters, how many people feel he still needs to be punished even now when, like you said, we’re almost a year out from the actual event.
Cindy White: Speaking as an older viewer (who doesn’t necessarily share that common opinion) I know what you mean. I definitely saw more younger people defending him afterwards. I’m not anti-Smith, but the word I’d use is disappointed. What a shame to compromise what would have been an otherwise triumphant moment when he won the Oscar later in the broadcast. The person I really felt bad for was Questlove, who also had a big win right after it happened, but who’s going to remember that now?
Drew Gillis: I was genuinely surprised to see the reaction when I tuned out of the ceremony and onto Twitter. At my Oscar party, we definitely had the initial reaction of “Was that scripted? What did I just watch?” and when Smith gave his speech, beginning with “Richard Williams was a fierce protector of his family,” the entire room cheered. Going online and seeing Judd Apatow being horrified because Smith could have killed Rock was so out of touch with the group of people I was with when it happened. Not to be especially crass, but I believe there’s truth to the expression “talk shit, get hit”—Chris Rock had been taking cheap shots at Jada for a while, and while it’s his job as a comedian to take shots, I don’t think comedians are above reproach. Of course, it was incredibly humiliating for both men, and you can argue that Smith’s punishment didn’t fit Rock’s crime, but I have to push back against the idea that comedians are beyond reproach.
JS: I’m also more fascinated by the response to the slap than the specifics of the incident itself. Maybe big, public cultural moments like this are Rorschach tests: Do you object to the negative consequences Will faced because it smacks of racial inequality? Do you have a no-tolerance policy about physical violence, as opposed to other forms of violence? Do you find it refreshing to see the polite veneer of public figures fall away to reveal real, human relatability—or put another way, do you just like drama?
MS: From my perspective, as a humble enjoyer of both of their work, the whole thing depressed me. Rock and Smith appeared so humiliated by the incident. Smith had this profound sense of “what the hell did I just do” and Rock a “what the hell happened.” There were some pictures of Rock at the after-party, and I just kept thinking about how embarrassed he must feel, having to relive the moment over and over, to know that everyone is thinking about it, and that everyone has an opinion about it. Despite them being two of these larger-than-life figures, it felt really humanizing to me. These are two people, one who was hurt by another’s actions and another who was hurt by their own actions. Everyone knows how that feels. When was the last time any celebrity did anything so relatable?
DG: He worked for decades specifically to brand himself as a Hollywood good guy and in one moment—one where I believe he was doing something resembling the right thing in defending his family—it all slipped away.
CW: Do you feel like the 10-year ban on Will Smith attending the Oscars was an appropriate response by the Academy, or extreme considering they haven’t punished others who have done far worse (though not during the ceremony)?
DG: One element that I think has been kind of left out of this conversation is that it literally was both men’s workplace. At least for me, I watch an award show and think of it as a bunch of famous friends hanging out, but as an actor, the Oscars are a work event. Morals, politics, everything else aside, if you were to slap your coworkers, there are repercussions. That’s the only lens through which I can really see the punishment that Smith received as appropriate.
MS: Eh. Smith gets a 10-year ban, but his Oscar will forever have an asterisk. I’m not going to pretend I know much about Smith, but to my mind, he’s a Tom Cruise: A guy that is so laser-focused on their goals that any hiccup can be catastrophic. He spoiled the moment he coveted for a very long time—at least two decades. That must really hurt.
JS: I get that the Academy felt they had to assertively do something in response to this news cycle-dominating thing. But to me it feels like it backfired. By implementing a ban of this extreme length (with our collective shrinking attention spans, a decade is a lifetime), they unwittingly laid bare their difference responses or lack thereof for others, as you’re getting at, Cindy.
Sacheen Littlefeather, who took the stage to decline Marlon Brando’s 1973 Oscar in an effort to bring attention to the industry’s unfair treatment of Native Americans, said the only reason John Wayne failed to physically attack her is because a whopping six men were restraining him. Where was his ban, Academy? Roman Polanski, who’d pleaded guilty to raping a minor in 1978, was expelled from Academy membership—but not until 2018, and in between, he won an Oscar. Or a more facetious example: how did Rob Lowe continue to have a career after the 1989 ceremony’s Disney-fied version of “Proud Mary” that was not only embarrassingly degrading, but even illegal? (Look it up, sheeple!)
CW: I love that you brought up the Rob Lowe debacle. What a low point for the broadcast. It’s also a good reminder that historically past Oscar ceremonies have hardly been epitomes of decorum, as the Academy would prefer us to believe. A streaker once ran across the stage on national television (his story and what happened to him after is another fascinating rabbit hole to dive down into)! The point is, when faced with a choice to take a drastic or a measured step against Will Smith, they opted for the drastic one. Read into that what you will.
JS: It bums me out that this incident will go down in history as the 2022 Oscar ceremony’s big headline, the forever highlight, and I remember how wild it was wrapping my head around that fact as I frantically tweeted from The A.V. Club’s Twitter account. I wish Chris Rock hadn’t told that (extremely dumb) joke, and that Will hadn’t crafted such a tragic irony for himself. The fact that I’m referring to him as Will, and not as I’m maybe supposed to in this official article as Smith, is a testament to how central a figure he is in the collective consciousness. He’s like an uncle, a familiar figure you love to see or check in on. If the question is do I feel bad for the guy, yes, I do.
[This conversation has been edited and condensed for clarity.]
189 Comments
I don’t feel about Will Smith. I feel that performers should not be assaulted on stage.Dude decked a guy over a lame joke, and one his industry’s most prestigious award by evening’s end, while avoiding charges or a lawsuit (to my knowledge). I’d say Will Smith had a net win that night.
Ugh…*won
To be pedantic, nobody got decked because nobody was knocked to the floor. Rock got slapped.
Definitely feel the reactions tracked pretty closely to whether you’ve been in a physical altercation since middle school, haha.
True. That was very pedantic.
I’m disappointed that he’s been banned for a decade. Imagine the tension at the next ceremony whenever the camera would have cut to or panned over to him. That would’ve been good TV.
Especially if he slapped somebody.
Will Smith hitting someone again this year is probably the only thing that would get me to start regularly watching the Oscars.
Me too. When I was younger, I used to watch them like they were the Super Bowl. I eventually entered the realm of “Who gives a shit?”
He should have the green light to slap one person at each year’s show. Imagine the anticipation (and wagering).
That would be great fun at first and then quickly turn into a promotional tool with him slapping co stars of his upcoming movies.
Smith should be banned for life and not eligible to ever be nominated.
Why?
What do you mean, why? Because he attacked somebody over a joke. This really isn’t complicated.
I mean why for life as opposed to the ten years he got. Why isn’t ten years enough? It’s really not that complicated a question.
I mean why for life as opposed to the ten years he got. Why isn’t ten years enough? It’s really not that complicated a question.
Because 10 years isn’t enough. He attacked someone over a throwaway joke. Hosts have made jokes at attendees’ expense for decades. I’m sure not all of them were comfortable with all the jokes, yet they all found it within themselves not to attack the host, except for Smith. Why should he be allowed back?
Like I said, because it would be good TV. In all seriousness, I think he has to atone and show contrition to Chris Rock before the Academy even considers allowing him back. But I don’t see how not just banning him for life but also permanently revoking his eligibility to be nominated helps anyone unless you’re really afraid he’s going to slap someone else again (and to be fair, I’m making light of the idea; I’ll own up to that). It also (to me) doesn’t seem commensurate with the harm Will Smith inflicted on Chris Rock – although I would ultimately defer to whatever Chris Rock felt was appropriate. He’s the victim.
Like I said, because it would be good TV.
That’s never a good reason for anything.
But I don’t see how not just banning him for life but also permanently revoking his eligibility to be nominated helps anyone It’s not about helping anyone. It’s about punishing Smith for his actions, which were inexcusable.
It also (to me) doesn’t seem commensurate with the harm Will Smith inflicted on Chris Rock It shouldn’t have anything to do with the harm inflicted on Chris Rock. It should have everything to do with the Academy’s image. Smith attacked someone for telling a joke, on national tv, during an event the Academy invited Smith to attend, and then the Academy invited him up onstage to receive one of the biggest awards in acting. The Academy essentially said that attacking someone over a joke is not only ok, but worthy of reward.
although I would ultimately defer to whatever Chris Rock felt was appropriate. He’s the victim. And Rock chose not to press charges. That’s fine. I’m not saying Smith should be arrested. But the Academy should kick Smith out & ban him from eligibility. They won’t, which is why I’ve lost what little respect I still had for the Academy. But they should.
That’s never a good reason for anything. No, but my only stake in the whole thing is that I happened to see the Slap live, and let me tell you, it was very good TV. For society’s sake, I hope that the Academy’s actions and decisions are not driven by what’s “good TV.” It’s not about helping anyone. It’s about punishing Smith for his actions, which were inexcusable.And there it is: the classic American tradition of punishment. Just to be clear, no, slapping Rock was not excusable. FWIW (I imagine not much) I think what should matter is atonement and reconciliation between Smith and Rock, and Smith and the Academy. But that’s just me. The Academy essentially said that attacking someone over a joke is not only ok, but worthy of reward.That’s not how I saw it. Everything happened quickly and seemed to genuinely shock the people working behind the scenes, not that long before Best Actor was announced. I’m not surprised that they didn’t have a contingency for one of the most famous nominees in the room getting up and slapping a comedian. On top of that, the votes are supposedly counted by an accounting firm before the ceremony and kept secret, even from the producers. I don’t think they knew what to do if the presenters announced his name after they’d kicked him out. I’m sure they were hoping Smith would use his win to address the Slap and apologize to Rock. Smith slapping Rock was inexcusable, but I kind of understand the Academy not know what the fuck to do in the moment. the Academy should kick Smith out & ban him from eligibility. They won’t, which is why I’ve lost what little respect I still had for the Academy. But they should. And I still don’t understand why you feel that slapping Rock was so offensive that there is no amount of contrition or amends that Smith could make in his lifetime to earn the Academy’s forgiveness, but on the other hand, Will Smith is so rich that never being nominated for or invited to the Oscars again isn’t going to destroy his livelihood. If you’re saying that’s the only way to punish someone of his means, then I guess I understand your stance a little bit better.
And there it is: the classic American tradition of punishment.
Actions have consequences. Smith is a grown man. Part of adulthood is understanding & accepting the consequences of your actions.
That’s not how I saw it.
And yet that’s the message conveyed by the Academy: What Smith did is perfectly acceptable. Why is that the message? He wasn’t removed from the event after attacking the host. He was awarded his Oscar and invited onstage to make a speech like nothing had happened.
I’m not surprised that they didn’t have a contingency for one of the
most famous nominees in the room getting up and slapping a comedian. On
top of that, the votes are supposedly counted by an accounting firm
before the ceremony and kept secret, even from the producers.
“And the winner is… Will Smith. Unfortunately, due to his actions earlier this evening, we will not be presenting this award to Mr. Smith. After the votes are recounted, the Oscar will be awarded to the actor who received the second-highest vote count.”
I came up with that statement in less than 30 seconds. It’s really not hard. If producers can’t think on the fly when something unexpected happens, then they shouldn’t be working in live tv.
And I still don’t understand why you feel that slapping Rock
was so offensive that there is no amount of contrition or amends that
Smith could make in his lifetime to earn the Academy’s forgiveness
If I’m hosting a corporate event and one of the invitees attacks someone, it’s not extreme to kick them out & never invite them back. Actions have consequences, and Smith has faced none.
Will Smith is so rich that never being nominated for or invited to the Oscars again isn’t going to destroy his livelihood.
So why are you acting like kicking him out & banning him for life is such an overreach?
Part of adulthood is understanding & accepting the consequences of your actions. Will Smith has said he accepts the Academy’s 10-year ban. I came up with that statement in less than 30 seconds.With the benefit of hindsight, and multiple accounts from multiple people about what happened, but okay. Actions have consequences, and Smith has faced none.That’s objectively not true. He just hasn’t faced enough consequences to your liking. So why are you acting like kicking him out & banning him for life is such an overreach? I guess because first, I don’t feel as strongly as you do about Will Smith slapping Chris Rock. But if you feel the way you do, that’s fine, I can’t change your mind. Second, your punishment is hypothetical. We don’t live in the universe where they banned him for life and stripped him of award eligibility. The Academy presumably came together and decided what was appropriate for Will Smith’s action was a ten-year ban. I’m fine with their decision the same way I’m fine with Chris Rock’s decision not to press charges.
Hot take: while it was rude, inappropriate and unprofessional of him, and I understand a temporary ban, it was still not even fucking close to as big of a deal as people made about it. The hyperbole is insane – everyone was acting like Smith beat Rock to a pulp. Half the people in the room that night gave a standing ovation to literal child rapist Roman Polanski not all that long ago, but god forbid the black guy have a dumb drunken lapse of judgement. At least Will Smith seems embarrassed by his behavior and has apologized.
Drunken? I have zero idea if Will Smith was drinking that night, and I can’t recall anyone in the many articles about the incident claiming that he was drunk.
I think it’s a fairly safe assumption that most people in the room that night were drinking – it’s a fancy gala. Those go hand-in-hand with open bars. His eyes and body language while yelling afterwards were a dead giveaway as well.
“it’s a fancy gala. Those go hand-in-hand with open bars.”
Yeah, that’s why Will Smith had a drink in his hand, and so did everyone else who presented an award or accepted one.
Oh, they didn’t? Well, if that’s the case then maybe you should shut up with the ignorant horseshit?
Who said he was drunk? Is that an excuse? You don’t put your hands on people. It’s that simple. It’s also against the law.
I’m not defending it at all, I already made that pretty clear. But I also think it’s a mistake to pretend that a single open handed slap is equivalent to something like a punch. One is meant to demean and embarrass, and the other is meant to cause actual damage. Yes, a slap is technically assault, but the use age of that word is pretty loaded. It’s not like Chris Rock required medical attention afterwards. Bringing “the law” into it would also be ridiculous – an arrest for assault would be infinitely more damaging to a person than a single slap; it wouldn’t even be slightly proportionate. That’s without even getting into the idea of how much more dangerous it is to call the police on a black man and claim that he attacked somebody.
So if I walk up and slap you across the face you’d be okay with it? Since it’s no big deal, right? Fucking clown.
Yeah I might even moan after
Like in porn?
… at least that’s what I’ve heard happens
Awards-Show-Assault-Porn is a very niche genre, but when it’s done right *chef’s kiss*
In the fall, I ran into a guy who had slapped me in the face at a bar a couple years before.We laughed about it and had a couple pints.If he’d punched me, it would have been a much different interaction.
Weird that you’re okay with someone assaulting you.
I had been talking a lot of shit, haha!It was a slap, not a punch, and I’m a grown man.
.
To be fair, after WillSlap anyone who’s slapped anyone is now forever called Will Smith and it’s something to laugh about.
Do you know how easy it is to not get slapped?
Depends. Did I just insult your wife in a very public setting? Do you have small hands?
Details matter.
pffft. as if the police are going to murder Will Smith surrounded by the Hollywood elite
“But I also think it’s a mistake to pretend…” I see this little bit of gaslighting more and more often. Pretend. Sure, people are pretending.To you the assault deserves a distinction, but there is none and a judge in a court of law isn’t likely to see it either. Touch the wrong person and you could lose everything. That’s the reality. First it’s an open- handed slap, next it’s a broken order of protection and a possible homicide.
Did you just slippery-slope-fallacy Will Smith into murdering Chris Rock? For real?
Courts of law, famously, are always right
This…really isn’t true? At all? Intent to cause harm plays a huge role in both the decision on whether to prosecute and the sentencing, haha!
There goes the word “gaslighting,” which used to carry some meaning.
It wouldn’t be “claiming” he attacked somebody. He did attack somebody in front of millions of witnesses. He should have been thrown out and it was a travesty he was allowed to go back on stage and accept his award.
It doesn’t have to be equivalent to a punch in order to be a bafflingly disproportionate reaction.
Yeah, it’s MORE embarrassing than sucker-punching someone. A slap? Over a bad joke? Guy’s an embarrassment.
The most dangerous thing would be to not have public consequences for public violence. That’s what laws are for.
But I also think it’s a mistake to pretend that a single open handed slap is equivalent to something like a punch.Assault is assault.
It’s not like Chris Rock required medical attention afterwards.
Irrelevant.
Bringing “the law” into it would also be ridiculous
If Rock had been performing at a comedy club and someone climbed on stage and assaulted him, yes, “the law” would be involved. Their involvement wouldn’t even be questioned.
That’s without even getting into the idea of how much more dangerous it
is to call the police on a black man and claim that he attacked
somebody.
It’s not a “claim” that Smith attacked Rock. We all saw it. It’s on video, for fuck’s sake.
The unspoken law is that if you talk shit about family you going to get slapped.
He looked completely drugged out to me.
The Pianist came out in 2002, so the standing ovation was about 20 years ago.
Yes, but that was still decades after he was very publicly convicted of the rape of a 13 year old girl and fled the country to evade justice. Everybody in the room that night was very familiar with the story, and the vast majority of the people that were clapping for him are still very active in the industry today. They don’t actually care that Smith hit Rock – they just don’t like that he did it while the cameras were rolling.
It’s hard to read a lot of these comments mischaracterizing the Slap as “assault” or “decking,” insisting that it’s “against the law,” and not conclude that people just really wanted to see a black man get arrested.
Counterpoint – perhaps the only reason he wasn’t arrested is because he hit another black man? That’s a very insidious form of racism in and of itself. Many people defending Will tried to say it was a “cultural thing,” and you can imagine how the FOX News crowd ran with that dog whistle.
I guess you can’t rule that out as a possibility. Slapping someone else is wrong, but it’s very hard for me to imagine a situation where arresting someone because they slapped someone else, regardless of either of their race, is justified. But I can’t deny that if Rock had been white, yeah, maybe things would have played out a lot differently.
Mischaracterized? It was assault.
Right? Some of the fury about it is just full on unhinged. You’d think Smith hit him with a brick based on these reactions
“You’d think Smith hit him with a brick based on these reactions”
No, you’d think it was two children on a playground by the way you dumbshits are reacting.
I wouldn’t want to see Will Smith get arrested, but I’d leave it up to the black man who was hit to decide if he wanted to press charges or not. Saying it’s “just a slap” strikes me as minimizing what occurred. If it was a woman making the jokes and Smith went up and slapped her, would you shrug it off? If your grandparents said a tasteless joke, and someone walked up and slapped them, would that be alright?Believe it or not I sincerely would feel the same if it was two white men in this situation.
So you’re asking whether a man slapping another man is equivalent to a man slapping a woman or an elderly person? Because I would say that no, no it isn’t.
So you’re asking whether a man slapping another man is equivalent to a man slapping a woman or an elderly person?Maybe try looking at it like whether a [person] slapping another [person] is equivalent to a [person] slapping a [person] or [another person]?and extend to the bedick’d folk the same respect for bodily autonomy you’d give to women or people past a certain age threshold.I ain’t trying to be overly disagreeable, I don’t think where you’re coming from is a fundamentally ill-intentioned or intrinsically incomprehensible place.
You already said you don’t think Smith should have been jailed either, so I’m not interested in getting too into the weeds on this, but my position is that I would feel a lot more negatively toward Will Smith if he had slapped a woman, an elderly person, or a child. But that doesn’t mean I think there was nothing wrong with Smith slapping Rock, or that I’m shrugging it off. There’s just a subtext to some of the comments about the Slap since it happened that feel a lot like they just wanted to see a black man jailed (something I think was unnecessary).
“Because I would say that no, no it isn’t.”
That’s weird, because it is EXACTLY the same thing.
I mean…dude hit another (black, should it matter) performer in the face, which is generally…not cool?I’m not calling for the guy to be jailed, but FFS, can we at least agree on that much?
It was not cool. Not cool at all.
He looked high as hell, glassy as fuck. A potent cocktail of booze, drugs, and narcissism.
“He looked high as hell, glassy as fuck.”
He absolutely did not.
Would you still be saying it if it had been a woman he’d attacked?#doublestandards
Whattaboutism like this misses the point. It is messed up that anyone would defend Smith at all. Using violence on tv to respond to a mild annoyance is an indication to me that Will Smith is a violent person who has done a good job lying about it for years, like a lot of violent men.The idea that the real tragedy is that a multimillionaire’s brand is ruined because people don’t understand that words are the same as violence is a cultural sickness.
I think a ban was appropriate, but 10 years does seem over the top. 3-5 makes more sense from my perspective.
“everyone was acting like Smith beat Rock to a pulp.”
No, they’re acting like one of the world’s most famous actors open-hand-slapped a massively popular standup comedian on a global television broadcast.
Time makes fools of us all.
It really does. I’d rephrase: Given enough time we all make fools of ourselves.
How do we feel about Rock talking shit about a black woman’s medical issues? No one gives a shit? Cool.Yup, the bully was the real victim here.
Black women do not benefit from your fake concern
What the fuck are you talking about… all three people involved in this story are black! It’s pretty disingenuous to claim there’s a racial component to Chris Rock making a joke at her expense.
Talking shit or making a weak joke? Let’s not make more of Rock’s “crime” that some people seem to think deserved a physical response (maybe some just wanted to see a black man hit another black man?)
To be clear the lady does not suffer from alopecia as a result of any diagnosed medical condition although it can certainly be a symptom of such. In some individuals it can appear randomly or perhaps have a genetic component. A good comparison is male pattern baldness. If alopecia is off-limits then male pattern baldness should be as well for consistency.
And as you know, men are judged for their appearance in exactly the same way women are, which was why both Will Smith and Chris Rock showed up in sparkling gowns and everyone spent more time asking them who designed their dresses than about the roles that brought them to the Oscars.
I agree that had that happened their outfits would have been the center of attention well before the slap although who they were wearing may have come in second to why they were wearing it in the first place.I think you may have misunderstood me. My point is that no one should be made fun of for aspects of their physical appearance that are beyond their control, not that alopecia jokes should continue until the male pattern baldness jokes cease. While there are certainly language and stereotypes that do disproportionate harm to people such as women and minorities I don’t think there’s much point in parsing out the difference when a blanket rule of “don’t be a jerk to anyone” should suffice.
stop talking
And obviously women can’t fight their own battles! That’s what men are for! And of course men can’t do it using words! That’s what fists are for!
Treating social issues like a math problem is always extremely naïve. Male pattern baldness is extremely common, women developing alopecia is nowhere near as common. They aren’t equivalent.
Alopecia just means bald, and can have various causes; in that regard, male and female pattern baldness are otherwise known as androgenetic alopecia. Hair loss in women is also extremely common, the difference isn’t the incidence rate between men and women as much as it’s the social acceptance of it. Now, if you’re talking about alopecia caused by an autoimmune disorder specifically, then that is rarer.
Great job googling alopecia bud
Or, you know, given how common baldness is, you have it yourself or have family members with it and can recall it from memory, bud.
Ethics, like math, uses logic to come to conclusions and it’s only naive if you have none. Something being common doesn’t make it any more okay to use as an insult than being rare. Obesity is very common yet it remains rude to call people fat and hack comedy to make jokes centered around it.
Math is a much simpler form of logic that follows rigid values and equivalences, ethics are extremely complex and would require dunces like you acknowledging the nuanced histories and general social perceptions of different experiences and inequities of different genders, races, cultures, etc. in order to come close to applying anything similar to a mathematical assessment to any social interaction. It’s stupid to try to reduce something like this to “duhh bald happen to men too so it okay”. Sure, bald jokes are hack and rude, but there are a million more bald men for every woman going through alopecia, and it’s an expectation that most men will go bald eventually while that is not an expectation of women. There are hundreds of products and options for balding men to help them deal with that because it’s so common, women have fewer options and even less societal support for the condition. All of this isn’t even dipping into the inherent societal inequities wherein men have clear advantages over women in general, which also changes the societal balance of issues like alopecia. Everyone has had a insecure jerk manager or cop or politician who was balding fuck up their day or worse, barely anyone has had a woman in that position who also had alopecia. It’s not “fair” in grade school playground ethical terms like you want to reduce it to, but it’s understandable if you don’t break your brain trying to cosplay as a robot that was programmed based on Reddit comment sections.
That’s a lot of words to justify mocking some people’s appearances. You ever think that if you have to go that far to make something okay maybe you just shouldn’t do it? The same thing goes for insulting people’s intelligence based on differences of opinion but clearly that’s not an argument you’re receptive to. Keep on telling yourself that cruelty is fine when the target is someone you don’t like, I’m sure that type of thing has no effect on one’s character.
It’s not even justifying mocking someone’s appearances, but I can’t say I’m surprised that you lack sufficient reading comprehension to glean that from my comment. Also, another thing you should understand is that opinions aren’t sacrosanct and are often very indicative of someone’s intelligence.
“Male pattern baldness is extremely common, women developing alopecia is nowhere near as common. They aren’t equivalent.”
Tell that to a 20-year old guy who’s going bald. THEN, you can go fuck yourself.
What a crock of shit that is
What does her being black have to do with this? Rock is black too.
Oh, yeah. She was just ground down by the humiliation of it. Shattered. If Smith hadn’t done what he did, nobody would even remember the fucking joke. It would have been one of 2,000 blips of ho-hum for the night.
As a disabled person, it is informative to see what people think caring for other minority groups that aren’t you looks like. How people still get mad as fuck when someone suggests that maybe they are missing a bigger picture completely outside their experience.
As for the person who made it racist (big surprise) even HBO couldn’t get me into boxing, I doubt the Oscars can.
You’re the only person acting “mad as fuck” here, dude.
No one anywhere cares what you think.
Cool is right! Now go ahead and find another cuck to defend.
It would have been horrible if Rock had done that.
Even if she were bald due to chemotherapy, physical violence in response to a lame joke is completely insane.
Would it have been OK in your eyes if he was talking about a white/Asian/Latina woman’s medical issues?I’m sure the Smith family likes to think everyone follows their every word, but I had no idea at that time she had any medical issues and Chris Rock probably didn’t either.
The person who had violence done on them was the real victim, yes, much more so than the husband of the person who turned to violence and profanity because someone made a lame joke about his wife, and more than the person who just had a snarky comment aimed at her. It isn’t like he ripped a wig off her head to point out her baldness and humiliate her. She’d decided to own her balding by shaving her head, on a night when she knew the cameras were going to be on her constantly, under circumstances where they both knew that people would be making jokes at her and Will’s expense. If you’re doing that, you should be able to take a pretty weak-ass joke about how you look like another Hollywood actress who also looked pretty damn hot with a shaved head.I don’t believe the slap actually had all that much to do with Jada’s hair, so much as with the incident, years earlier, when Rock made fun of her for boycotting the Oscars. That was a much more pointed and personal insult (although also not out of bounds) that directly attacked the image Will and Jada have tried to cultivate for themselves as a successful, respected, and influential power couple in the show business community.
Remember that Will himself laughed a bit at the joke, while Jada glared at him. His initial reaction was not to leap out of his seat and attack Rock but man she was looking at him like “you going to do something??”
“Medical issues” lmaoooo, give me a fucking break, get the fuck out of here. Like you’d give two shits about any man being mocked for being bald.
How do we feel about Rock talking shit about a black woman’s medical issues? No one gives a shit?
Many people do and have said so since the slap.
so then shouldnt a roundtable discussing it almost a year later mention it?
Just because they don’t care to mention it doesn’t mean no one cares. Everything that can be said about this, has been said. Ad nauseum. Honestly, nothing constructive or interesting is happening here. People are just re-arguing the same opinions they’ve always had and aren’t changing. And then getting re-upset about it. It’s stupid and a depressing way to start a new year. ffs
Did he even know about any “medical issues”? Doubt it, and therefore not an excuse for such weird violence.
You’re a very stupid person.
Will Smith thought the joke was funny until his bald headed string puller gave him the stink eye.
Just saying “a black woman” doesn’t give you a blank check to be offended.
The bully is the one who used physical violence. If you don’t get that, you don’t understand what bullying is.
I guarantee you there was zero chance Rock knew her clean dome was anything but a choice. Also, alopecia is hardly exclusive to black women.
Load. Of. Fucking. Shit.
People tend to forget that James Cagney repeatedly shot Gary Cooper on the Oscar stage with a small revolver back in 1943.
He don’t jive around, he’s the real McCoy.
Back when men were men damnit!
DAMN IT ALL TO HELL!!
And that was because Cooper was running around town using Cagney’s well known catchphrase ‘Whaddya say, whaddya know?’
Well did Gary Cooper talk shit? Because Drew Gillis would say he probably deserved it.
He’s a 50 year old man, don’t strike someone in their face. It’s dangerous.
I think his contrition since has been adequate, although he’s lucky Chris Rock is so chilled about it.
Will Smith should come out of the closet already!
It seems to be taken as read that the ten year ban is an extreme punishment but I disagree. If whoever won the vfx Oscar had slapped Rock over one of his jokes and was banned for a decade,.or even for life, I don’t think anyone would blink. It’s just because Smith is super famous people expect leniency and are surprised when it doesn’t happen.
“Sacheen Littlefeather… said the only reason John Wayne failed to physically attack her is because a whopping six men were restraining him.”Wasn’t she also a big ol’ liar though?
How do we feel about it now? On the internet? The place where opinions aren’t changed they get double-downed upon regardless if it makes sense or not…
But seriously, has anyone changed how they feel or what they think about this? I get it was a big moment in entertainment news, but it had so little effect on my life at least, I can’t say I’ve thought about it again and again except when there’s been another article posted about it.
It’s not a big deal at all.
This was a stupid thing to fixate on nine months ago. It has gestated into a stupider baby.
POS
It’s weird to hear people say a comedian shouldn’t have told a joke and that an actor was judged too harshly for hitting someone at his workplace.
Really disturbing reading people like Drew Gillis justify assault.
Also kind of bizarre, since after Gillis advocates for “talk shit get hit” he actually provides the correct answer by pointing out that this was, basically, workplace violence and should be treated as such.
Yeah, I’m amazed that a grown-ass adult would say that without an ounce of shame or self-awareness. “Talk shit, get hit” is schoolyard bully logic.
I never liked Will Smith before, and I like him even less now. His love of himself just radiates out of him like stink lines in a comic strip, even Tom Cruise reigns in his ego more than Will Smith does.Dude, you are a bubble-gum rapper with some facility for comedy. Stop trying to convince us you are a tough guy. You couldn’t even rock little Chris Rock while he was standing defenseless with his hands behind his back.
The fact that Will Smith was out shucking and jiving for the cameras 45 minutes after he assaulted someone on live television in front of millions of people the world over tells me everything I ever needed to know about Will Smith. And the media in charge of those cameras, too, for that matter..
Cruise is exactly who I compare him to on a regular basis. Both have achieved fame and wealth that seem to completely insulate them from society, and appear only to promote their latest works.
Why is everyone so concerned about Rock getting hit? I thought we agreed Everybody Hates Chris.
I don’t even get why the joke was anything to get upset about?Demi Moore looked rad as hell in GI Jane, why would GI Jane be an insult?
Not only that, but Jada has literally said on camera that any comments about her lack of hair doesn’t phase her in the least. So wtf is Smith losing his shit in that moment?
My thought exactly.
Right? It’s not like he said she looked like Gollum or something.
Not to be especially crass, but I believe there’s truth to the expression “talk shit, get hit”Nah. Talk shit, get shit talked back to you. Talking -> hitting is a clear and unnecessary escalation. No one was being threatened. Nobody was using their words to intimate or encourage physical violence. I know American culture is inundated with and glorifies unnecessary aggression as a general principle, but maybe it shouldn’t? —Chris Rock had been taking cheap shots at Jada for a while, and while it’s his job as a comedian to take shots, I don’t think comedians are above reproach.Comedians aren’t and definitely shouldn’t be treated like they’re above reproach.“Reproach” means finding fault with, expressing disapproval or censure of a person.I don’t think comedians are above reproach. I do think comedians are above being hit for what they say because someone dislikes it. I think any human being is. one where I believe he was doing something resembling the right thing in defending his familyHis family wasn’t being threatened. His family wasn’t being physically attacked. If it was being verbally disparaged, the proportionate response is, you know, to defend his family with words.It’s not generational, it’s cultural. You’ve a culture where your police shoot citizens, citizens shoot each other, and you’ve been at war for 225 years of your 247 year existence. Maybe try and stop.
Thank you. What a bullshit response from whoever the hell this Drew Gillis person is. Grown adults do not HIT PEOPLE when they get angry at them. If that’s honestly what you think, Drew, grow up. How wildly ironic it is to hear such a thing from someone who uses words (not their fists) as their profession..
Drew Gillis is a male AV Club writer which means there’s about a 95% chance he’s a bearded white hipster with glasses desperately trying to impress the black friends he thinks he has, who make fun of him when he’s not in the room.
Drew’s extremely ill-considered response is a blot on this discussion and site. It also provides direct cover to Chappelle’s attacker, Michael Che’s attacker, and every psycho who has any issue with a comedian’s material.
psst I think you mean Chris Redd
And, you know, damaged people in general..
Maybe he’s a bare-knuckle boxer on the weekends.
Yes, I’m sure he went 118 rounds of pugilistic pummeling with John “Boston Strong Boy” Sullivan in exchange for the town title and a fat Christmas goose just last weekend. Knocked asunder eleven men and a horse that day, he did!.
PERFECT response, I wish I could give this 1000 thumbs up.
Well said!
Spot on. I was thinking the same thing as I read those tone deaf comments. Comedians are taken to task by the audience every time they get on stage after ever single joke. They get a laugh or not, and a bad joke doesn’t deserve an immediate public flogging, because nothing actually deserves that.
But then he writes…
Morals, politics, everything else aside, if you were to slap your
coworkers, there are repercussions. That’s the only lens through which I
can really see the punishment that Smith received as appropriate.The Oscars are a little more than the office holiday party and a highly public unprovoked physical assault is more than just an HR issue.
As an aside, if the Drew Gillis who comes up when you google him and check images is the same Drew Gillis who contributed to this, then he might want to dial back the macho posturing about talking shit and getting hit.Frankly, dude looks like he’d fold like a paper towel at the first sign of confrontation.
Talk shit get hit is literally what they teach you not to do in kindergarten. How any adult can believe this is embarrassing.
Yes to everything you just said. Reminds me of a friend I had in college whose girlfriend liked to get drunk and hit him, claiming he had agitated her into it. He said something like, “I don’t know if ‘Why do you make me hit you?’ is a defensible position.”
I think someone talking shit shouldn’t be surprised to get hit, but not for something as banal as this joke and certainly not in that environment.
As a (semi-) normal person, I’d reckon that here we are, a year later, and most people, just really don’t care.
i wonder how that “slapsgiving” episode of HIMYM would be received now
The same? There is a pretty clear difference between fictional friends slapping each other as part of a pre-arranged bet vs a real person slapping someone who didn’t expect it whatsoever.
I’m usually good at separating art from artist. Really good at it. But it’s all I could think about watching Emancipation. Perhaps because of the larger context of it. Which is…
This was close to my favorite thing in 2022, lol. The pandemonium! The takes! The only down side, was I really didn’t want Smith winning for King Richard because I don’t think it’s his best dramatic role, and I don’t think he was even the 3rd best nominee that year. Anyway, I’m glad he apologized. Yet if I’m ever to believe this is water under the bridge, he and Chris Rock need to make a movie together..;)
I dare say if Emancipation had been a GOOD movie, you might have thought about the slap just a tad less.
lol, fair enough
I got triggered by seeing a photo of the slap on the AV Club home page. I’d almost forgotten there was a time when this site featured several different think pieces about this event at the same time for like…. a month.
Hopefully Mr. Drew tells a bad joke one evening and gets the shit slapped out of him. Better not file it to the police or he’s a filthy dirty hypocrite. Words are to be answered with words, if your only reaction is violence, then you have no place in civilized society. Will is not just one man, he’s an example to millions. He ought to be behind bars for at least a few days after to show the repercussions of violence.
i don’t think of him at all.
“Sacheen Littlefeather, who took the stage to decline Marlon Brando’s 1973 Oscar in an effort to bring attention to the industry’s unfair treatment of Native Americans, said the only reason John Wayne failed to physically attack her is because a whopping six men were restraining him. Where was his ban, Academy?”The reason John Wayne wasn’t banned was because this never happened; he never tried to attack her, even though Littlefeather–a fraud who lied about her heritage–dined out on this story for years:https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2022-08-23/column-did-john-wayne-try-to-assault-sacheen-littlefeather-at-the-1973-oscars-debunking-a-hollywood-myth
“even though Littlefeather–a fraud who lied about her heritage”
Care to offer proof?
Well then Drew, I can only hope that the next time you talk shit you get a fist to the face because after all “talk shit, get hit” right? No, talk shit, get talked shit at. Fucking sign of weakness if you get physical after some shittalk.
I believe there’s truth to the expression “talk shit, get hit” What truth could you possibly think there is to that expression? Are you seriously suggesting that physical violence is ever even close to justified in response to mean-spirited words?
I have to push back against the idea that comedians are beyond reproach There’s an enormous, obvious difference between beyond reproach and beyond physical violence as a response to jokes.
“Talk shit get hit” isn’t just wrong, it’s racist, because nobody would defend a white actor who did what Smith did. The implication is that Black men are incapable of handling conflict without violence. Disgusting.
Imagine if Will Smith walked up the stage, threw his drink into Rock’s face and said ‘Now you’re ready to play Aquaman.’
For all the people who do “but…Roman Polanski!” about the Will Smith ban, it’s worth remembering that Will Smith’s ban is mainly not being able to attend the Oscars. He can still be nominated, still win, and (as shown on the night of the ceremony!) still be cheered by the crowd. You know who else can’t attend the Oscars? Roman Polanski. Now, maybe the Academy should clarify that fugitives from justice aren’t eligible to be members of the academy or guests at the show, but it’s not like Polanski’s getting better treatment.The “but…John Wayne!” thing is even weaker. First of all, if anyone had the good sense to hold Will Smith back, him cussing at Rock would’ve been a weird footnote to Smith’s big night rather than completely overshadowing it. More importantly, it doesn’t seem like the “the Duke vs six security guards” thing ever actually happened:https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2022-08-23/column-did-john-wayne-try-to-assault-sacheen-littlefeather-at-the-1973-oscars-debunking-a-hollywood-myth
Personally, one of the most offensive things about all this was the way the AV Club kept running article after article about The Slap while smarmily trying to pretend they were above it all at the same time.You were contributing to the gossip as much as anyone else, guys; the constant talking out of both sides of your mouths was just unseemly.
I dunno He allright
We have to put things in the proper perspective. The question is what is the proportionate response for what Will Smith did? If we honestly look at it beyond the influence of celebrity I believe that the proportionate response would have been for him to be arrested and have career consequences such as a ban from academy events. That is because if it the assault had been committed by a different, non-famous, audience member that is what most likely would have happened. If someone gets up and attacks someone on stage at a different trade show (let’s say pharmaceutical sales) then that person would have most likely suffered those consequences. However, to balance things out that doesn’t mean that Smith should never work again or that we need to boycott his career. In the proper perspective, what he did is much less serious than what other artists, artists that we continue to give patronage, have done.
I’m sorry. Did something happen at least year’s Oscars? I haven’t watched that snooze-fest in years.
Check out the shades on this cool guy, everyone! He doesn’t watch the Oscars!
“So you gotta look at OJ’s situation. He’s paying $25,000 a month in alimony, got another man driving around in his car and fucking his wife in a house he’s still paying the mortgage on. Now I’m not saying he should have killed her… but I understand.”I’m just saying if there’s anybody who should be able to empathize with why Will Smith would do this, it’s Chris Rock. This isn’t even heightening the premise. It’s the opposite. We’re lowering the premise.
Came expecting a depressingly dumb conversation. Wasn’t disappointed. Some highlights: seeing Judd Apatow being horrified because Smith could have killed Rock was so out of touch with the group of people I was with when it happenedSuch a shame that Judd Apatow wasn’t on the same wavelength as an AV Club writer’s room of friends who cheered Will Smith when he justified slapping someone over a silly joke. I wish Chris Rock hadn’t told that (extremely dumb) joke, and that Will hadn’t crafted such a tragic irony for himself.Fair point. Two equal sins. Both men to blame. What are you even talking about? The point is, when faced with a choice to take a drastic or a measured step against Will Smith, they opted for the drastic one. Read into that what you will.Assuming this is some implication of racism, a 10-year ban from attending a ceremony is only extreme if you’re the kind of person who writes for the AV Club in 2022. He can even still get nominated for awards in that time period. There were some pictures of Rock at the after-party, and I just kept thinking about how embarrassed he must feel, having to relive the moment over and over, to know that everyone is thinking about it, and that everyone has an opinion about it. This is the only time anyone in this conversation talks about how the guy who got slapped on the face on national TV must have felt. Sacheen Littlefeather, who took the stage to decline Marlon Brando’s 1973 Oscar in an effort to bring attention to the industry’s unfair treatment of Native Americans, said the only reason John Wayne failed to physically attack her is because a whopping six men were restraining him. Where was his ban, Academy?That was 50 years ago, and John Wayne has been dead for over 40. If your defense of someone is “why wasn’t this other guy punished 50 years ago for almost doing something” you’ve already lost. If the question is do I feel bad for the guy, yes, I do.Of course he’s the guy you feel bad for. Of course it is.
If this is in fact true–that younger viewers are defending Will Smith–then “younger” viewers need to grow up. Let’s stop defaulting to the “younger” viewpoint as the more progressive, in-touch way to think if this is in fact who they’re siding with here.
I don’t even see how that claim holds up to scrutiny. The younger generation is more likely than their grandparents to say it’s normal for a man to assault someone for insulting his wife? Highly doubt that.
“Talk shit, get hit.” You heard the man whose parents probably paid for a $30k/year private school.
If a white male actor had slapped Chris Rock, no one would be defending the actor. This is condescending and ridiculous.
This exactly.
My god no shit. The impulse to shoehorn race into every situation has reached the absurd.
Smith acts too hard. That’s how I feel about him. He’s always seemed most concerned with projecting his celebrity on camera, rather than playing his character and telling the story. The post for Emancipation just oozes that to me.
I think the fact that he went for a lame G.I. Jane joke is the part that offends me the most.Maybe a Dora Milaje / Black Panther 2 joke would have been too nerdy, but it wouldn’t have been that much worse.Like, a G.I. Jane reference could be part of a stand up comedy routine of a guy whose VCR is always blinking 12:00.
Well, I’m older and I don’t like what Smith did. I’m not against the guy, I’ve enjoyed his work. The Smiths are quite wealthy and public figures so they can be made fun of. I don’t believe there’s an off limits in comedy, it’s whether the audience finds it funny or not. That joke was pretty soft ball. A total over reaction by Smith. I can’t believe people think it’s OK. Our society is accepting violence as the norm? The Smiths could have criticized Rock after the show and gotten Rock in a media storm with them as the wounded party. Rock could have asked for charges but he didn’t.
Oh, look at Drew with his “talk shit, get hit” take. Hell, think you had that same take when it first happened. Still surprised nobody has hit you yet since you’re apparently still talking shit.