Three episodes in, and it’s safe to say that the third season premiere wasn’t a fluke. Westworld has reinvented itself; in leaving the park, it’s streamlined its focus, simplified its approach to narrative, and become far less withholding in terms of thrills. And while I can see being disappointed in this if you were a fan of the old approach (which did, at least in the first season, achieve something unique and weirdly compelling), so far I’m having a blast. The simplification means that the stakes are clearer, characters are easier to connect to, and the story is easier to follow. Tonight’s entry, “The Absence Of Field,” has two plots running in parallel, and both hit shockingly hard for a show that has spent so much of its life keeping its distance. If you’re looking for stunning new insights into the nature of artificial consciousness, you may be disappointed. But in terms of holding attention and keeping it, of delivering on the pulpy, high-budget excitement the series always promised but rarely delivered, you’ll have a good time.
“Field” opens with a crash course in just how the Charlotte Hale replacement came to be. Last season she served as a surprise double for Dolores herself, but it turns out the Charlotte we saw in the premiere is actually a new construction: a host Dolores built to have someone running Delos, working towards her vision to overthrow the human world. What’s striking is that the show has apparently given up its never-ending routine of playing with our assumptions about who’s human and who isn’t. While it’s possible some last minute twist could throw everything out of whack, the duplicates we’ve seen so far have been introduced in a way to underline their duplicity. Hell, even Stubbs, whose identity was something of a mystery for seasons one and two (well, less “mystery” and more “we all assumed he was human, but then he wasn’t”) was upfront about his true nature. The new Charlotte is no exception, and the only time we see the living Charlotte, in a flashback to before her death and in the recording she made during that flashback, the distinction is very obvious.
In fact, new Charlotte’s storyline rests entirely on that distinction. She’s a host with a job, and she’s good at pretending to be her human counterpart. Yet she’s also a conscious being struggling with the role Dolores has made her for. Their first scene together, new Charlotte is confused and unhappy, and even as Dolores reassures her, the conflict remains. It’s a fascinating concept, and one which I’m not sure the series had really hinted at before now. Up until this point, the discovery that some people were actually machines was mostly focused on delivering the big twist, building paranoia and fear out of undermining what seemed obvious. Bernard is a big exception, and in some ways new Charlotte is an expansion of Bernard’s angst from last season. Except new Charlotte is also a double agent who is pretending to be someone, someone she’s not comfortable pretending to be. She knows the real Charlotte wanted them all dead, and the prospect of “becoming” that Charlotte, however falsely, sits uneasily in her mind.
It borders on horrific. As new Charlotte integrates herself into old Charlotte’s life, both at Delos and at home, the strain takes its toll in unexpected ways. She starts cutting herself, the intensity of her discomfort finding release in physical distress, leaning more and more on Dolores for reassurance in a relationship that sits in the compelling gray area between infatuation and cultish dependency. It’s not explicitly sexual, because it doesn’t really need to be; the physical connection is more about new Charlotte’s need for someone to center her, remind her that she’s real. But it plays like something almost romantic, albeit in a deeply unhealthy way.
At some point during the last two seasons, I mentioned the movie Futureworld, the sequel to Westworld that the show seemed to be riffing on in some ways. One of the big twists in Futureworld is that the company was killing people and sending out robotic replacements in their stead, in order to extend their control. It’s a deeply creepy idea, and I love how the show has taken it and found a way for us to sympathize with the robot replacements. New Charlotte’s job is complicated enough; we learn by the end of the hour that Serac has been working behind the scenes to buy up shares of Delos and take control, and also that the original Charlotte was his mole inside the company, a role he still expects her to continue. But she also has a son, and in trying to establish her identity (something the show has been concerned with from the start), she seems to be connecting emotionally with parts of original Charlotte’s life even as she works with Dolores to undo everything else.
It’s a fantastic idea, and I already care more about what happens to new Charlotte than I ever cared about the original. Having her watch original Charlotte’s recorded message to her son over and over while tears stream down her face; and then seeing her murder a man in the park who threatens “her” son; it suggests agency and direction in a show which has often lacked for both. I’m not sure where this is going, but I am absolutely on board for it.
The episode’s other story is more conventional, building a relationship that was clearly going to be foundational to the season in fairly predictable ways. But predictability doesn’t hurt Caleb and Dolores’ “meet cute.” The details count: Dolores using the computer system’s transcript of one of the most important moments in young Caleb’s life allows for some striking editing and visual tricks, as well as a clearer connection to Caleb himself. It’s obvious from the start that she’s eventually going to ask him to join her (even if it’s not completely clear why Dolores wants his help yet), just as it is that he’s going to accept, but that doesn’t make it less satisfying when it happens. It’s not just seeing Caleb get a chance for some payback down the line; it’s the knowledge that this is going to lead to places neither of them can predict.
That’s the best way to explain why this episode, and the two that preceded it, have me so optimistic about the show: the fact that it’s found a way to deliver on potential while still suggesting more to come. Yes, Westworld seasons often start strong, but the show’s muddled structure tended to show itself fairly early on. But each piece of season three has been both serialized and self-contained, with arcs that serve to make each individual make clear emotional points. I’ve been thinking a lot lately about Jonathan Nolan’s previous series, Person Of Interest. This season has obvious story parallels with it (the machine that predicts the probability of individual behavior based on statistics and algorithms is more or less a direct lift), and it’s possible as the show continues, these parallels will begin to feel repetitive. But for right now, it’s more like Nolan (and Westworld’s co-creator Lisa Joy) have finally become comfortable leaning into their instincts and just letting this be a TV show, as opposed to some kind of revolution. Again: that may be disappointing for people invested in the mind games. But right now, I’m just relieved to see something this well made actually be good again.
Stray observations
- I’m not sure I absolutely needed Caleb to tell Dolores she’s the first real thing to happen to him in a long time (especially given that he literally said he wanted something real to happen to him in the first episode), but it’s fine. The show is less subtle now, and the clunkers may get harder to overlook eventually, though.
- The Riot Control robot has strong ED-209 energy.
- Nice use of the Westworld theme during one of the later Dolores and Caleb scenes.
- I also appreciate how much this season has been about Dolores’s fallibility. Now that she’s out of the park, she’s more of an underdog again, taking risks that don’t always pay off.
- Still no sign of Ed Harris.
273 Comments
I don’t find this show *that* confusing, but the standard HBO “previously on” recaps being reduced to a dialogue-less montage is a real middle finger to the audience.
Any chance that closing scene with Ciroc was a nod to Wrath of Khan?Or is it more likely that i’m just a nerd.Ok, nevermind, don’t answer that.
I was really hoping this would be great when I saw Denise Thé was writing it. It did not disappoint.
“Field” opens with a crash course in just how the Charlotte Haze replacement came to be.
Hale, not Haze. Her son’s name is Nathan. Nathan Hale. Because of course he is.I was thinking Teddy right up until she told the pedophile, “You’re not the only predator here.” There’s plenty of words to describe Teddy, ‘Predator’ is not among them.
I’m wondering if that’s Wyatt wearing the Hale suit. That would explain the codependency and why Dolores is going by that name and why they know each other better than anyone.I think the biggest question is why Dolores cares about breaking open the system.
I’m pretty sure that Charlotte is being worn by Clementine
I thought that Clem had been lobotimized, then turned into the hate plague character sent to take out the convoy heading to the gate last time we saw. Was there any indication that she would have escaped?
This is my current guess as well, since it both fits all the clues we’ve been given so far and also on a meta level would be narratively twisty enough to feel like a payoff. It can’t be Teddy, simply because the most obvious answer makes it a pretty lame mystery.It could also be Angela I guess, but that also doesn’t carry the “oh shit” factor that Wyatt would.
But isn’t Wyatt essentially still Dolores? Like, her Mr. Hyde? And as such, wouldn’t suit much neither the role of a stealthy double agent nor being the submissive one in their partnership.
I like the Idea that it’s a young Man In Black in Hale.
Cutting patterns into Charlotte’s body made me think it might be Armistice, trying to recreate her tattoos.That said, I’m pretty disappointed they’re going to string this mystery along rather than cutting to the quick.
I actually don’t mind if it’s a multi-ep mystery, cause it’s a side plot. Let it dangle, throw in some teases, reveal some stuff and let it rest, then pull off the big reveal.
Just as long as it isn’t the central focus, with every character revolving around it until the final episode, I’m ok with it.
Yeah, and the way she choked the pedo was something an Armistice or Clem kind of thing.
Or THE MAN IN BLACK
We’ll see. Next episode!
The funny thing was that when she was choking him she made a remark about remembering who she used to be–at first I thought that was a hint at who’s in her, but I’m thinking that actually it means she’s starting to gain more sentience and connect with Charlotte. Her journey may be like Dolores’ journey in season 1, and she’ll eventually defy her programming.
She also said “I’m a predator” which is something way out of character for Teddy.
Clementine. Thanks. I was trying to remember her name. I put Clementine above Armistice. Delores didn’t have much to do with Armistice in seasons 1 & 2 … unless by scanning all the files, Delores knows everyone intimately now … so maybe she would trust Armistice as a partner and confidant. “I own you now” suggests maybe William.
The actress who plays Clementine is on the HBO red carpet video ad for season three of Westworld. Because of this, I think it is her or why else would that actress be on the promo?
Good catch. Delores would crawl into bed to comfort a fragile Clementine. She would not do that for William (I don’t think). I agree Teddy would be confusing. It’s a fun parlor game. It could be that Charlotte Hale’s soul is actually in there – at war with Charlotte Hale the copy/host – trapped in a kind of hell the way Mr. Delos was.
I kinda think it’s a version of Dolores, confused and offset by her identity crisis and all the Charlotte data in her head.It was the trust line from Dolores that makes me think that. Who does Dolores trust? It’s a very short list. (Those who know when Bernard and Charlotte are is an even shorter list.)I’d also be willing to roll with some version of William, but that’s take a lot of unpacking.
I’m about sold on Harvey’s suggestion below that it’s Maeve’s daughter in Charlotte’s body. It checks all the boxes and comes with the additional perk of being leverage over Maeve. Of course if it plays out this way, the kid would be doomed. The show seems hell-bent on pitting Delores and Maeve against one another.
I’m thinking Armistice would have offed him in a more dramatic and messy fashion.
I miss Armistice and keep hoping she will return, but she was in Hector/Maeve’s gang. Why would Dolores save Armistice’s pearl?
No. Delores wouldn’t trust Armistice. I’m still leaning toward Angela.
How could it have been Teddy when he is supposed to have been uploaded to the Valley Beyond/virtual Eden?
Indeed. We’ll not be seeing Teddy again.
Because this show gleefully messes with the viewer at every turn; I’m totally expecting the Valley Beyond rug to be pulled out from underneath us at any time. “SIKE! The MacGuffin of season 2 was bullshit! All those Hosts are totally still in play!”
The hosts in the valley are protected from humans because Dolores is the only one who knows where the data is stored. That doesn’t mean Dolores doesn’t have access to them. My out there hot take is that Dolores reprogrammed one of the marbles with the identity of Maeve’s daughter which is her secret weapon to use against Maeve when she shows up.
And this is just Ford’s newest and most amazing Westworld story yet.
The Valley Beyond IS the real world…
I was wondering that too or that it is Angela and she exploded. If a brain nut can just be remade, then why all the pomp with Dolores stealing five of them last season. She could just them on her own, like the shells
…and when Charlotte said something to the effect “the more I squeeze, the more I remember whomi am” his definitely not him, which is why I think CHARLOTTE IS THE MAN IN BLACK
Please bear with me; I didn’t rewatch the first two seasons before starting this one…But are you serious, joking or making a plot twist prediction? Because last we saw, I thought William was very much human. (Even with that finale post-credits scene, I seem to remember the creators mixing the host theory.)If I’m being a major dumb dumb dumbass here, feel free to make fun of me, as long as I also get educated in the process. Thanks!
I believe it’s a copy of his mind. I think it’s the one sure weakness the writers have allowed on Dolores, to hold a personal grudge. She told Charlotte “you belong to me” and charlotte ts the pedo something to the effect of “the more I squeeze, the more I remember who i am…”. She using her rate to bring down humanity but it still burns brightest for them one who personally tortured her over and over.
I like your theory – a lot – but it doesn’t seem to jibe to me with New Charlotte’s personality. I’m particularly thinking of her plaintive “Why can’t I be me, like you are?” to Dolores – a lot more vulnerable and deferential to Dolores than I would expect William to be at that moment. On the other hand, whoever it is had just “woke up”, and as the reviews and other commenters have mentioned it takes a while for them to remember their whole nature.Basically, I don’t think you’re right, but I think your theory is probably cooler than whatever the truth ends up being.
That “why can’t I be me” line had me thinking it’s another Delores. Like she made a copy of herself.
The person in Charlottes head seems very timid and unsure how to act it’s either somebody who is actually like that or Dolores has limited parts of their processes. If it was William or even James Delos in there then Dolores would take advantage of their ruthlessness and abilities to run the company and turn some of those traits on.
Also, as I noted above, Host Charlotte is:- somebody Dolores trusts- somebody who’s already used to identify as a host (instinctively using “us vs. them”, in the robots vs humans conflict)- somebody who knew Charlotte and her goals and disliked them
Dolores also says, “Because I trust you.” Would she say that to William?Also, Host Charlotte immediately uses “us” and “our kind” to refer to the robots. Would a copy of William do that?
That is actually a question I have too and love how asked that!👍
Former humans get pinkish pearls. Dolores looked at some of the human program books in the “library”.
I guess since all guests are books in the Forge, any human could be downloaded. But they usually have a short expiration date.
Yeah, “Who is Charlotte” is a good mini-mystery to keep stringing along for awhile. I too dismissed Teddy. He put a bullet through his head-ball, didn’t he? Next I thought maybe it was her father, the elder Mr. Abernathy, but IDK. Could be ol’Ed Harris. Delores didn’t really have a relationship with Armistice, so I don’t think its her. Maybe it could be a Teddy/Real-Charlotte hybrid and that’s why she’s at war with herself. If it’s a host at war with a guest inside the same body, that circles back to it being William.
Teddy went to the Valley Beyond, which was host heaven. They are supposedly forever wiped or go somewhere their data cannot be retrieved. If the writers change that, I’ll be confused.
“the valley beyond” was put into the cloud and the only person who knows the “coordinates” (it’s how they seem to refer to it in the show but basically who knows how to retrieve that data) is Dolores as she put them there.The whole reason serac wanted maeve was because they thought she did it & would know but they discovered through the simulation she was in that Dolores is the one who knows so now that’s another reason serac is wanting to track her down. He’s also tasked Charlotte with finding this data at the end of this episode, I presume as a back up plan given he knows he also needs to “kill” Dolores & has sent maeve off to do that
I think faux-Charlotte is Maeve’s daughter. During her first scene with Dolores, she sounded like a child who had woken up in an adult’s body— beuatifully acted out by Tessa Thompson.
Not bad. It might jive with her reaction to the pedo with the puppy.
That was my out-there theory, too. Vicious tool to use against Maeve if so.
If that’s the case, perhaps he’s trying to atone for his sins?He was cutting himself in the same place Neo-Charlotte was (left forearm) when he flipped out after shooting Emily. And that line about remembering “who I am” jibes with his repeatedly saying he knows who he is in the preview for next week.The only question I have is when does Delores start trusting him?
I was thinking Teddy too, especially with Delores’ comforting of Charlotte.But now I’m pretty sure it’s William.
Him being named Nathan Hale makes me wonder if her family is even real to begin with. It’s ridiculous.
There was a news lady in Dallas named Midge Hill who named her son Bunker.
Nathan Hale. Because of course he is.About that. I was thinking, “Why?”
Nolan does love a Nathan… https://personofinterest.fandom.com/wiki/Nathan_Ingram
Now that’s what this country needs – more Nathan Hales.
Pretty sure it’s ‘Nathans Hale’…..
People keep saying the name is significant. I don’t get why. Tell me why?
He was an American spy during the revolutionary war. He was hanged by the British. That’s pretty much all I know really, I’m not American.
Nathan Hale was a spy for America in the Revolutionary War. When the Brits caught him, they executed him and before he was hanged, he famously said (potentially, anyway), “I regret that I have but one life to give for my country.”So, potentially little Nathan could be something of a chess piece in a Dolores vs Charlotte war, but more likely it was just a cute little wink since it seems that Charlotte was a double agent before her death, and New!Charlotte may continue that practice.
*Nathans Hale
I’m thinking it’s her dad, who has all the data in his brain. She’s ( and everyone else) essentially looking for something that is already in her skull. Sort of like in the opening montage where the person is reaching up and winds up touching it’s own reflection. A very Dolores trick to play.
The character seems fatherly to Dolores but asking how she is.
Ditto on thinking it was Teddy until that line about Predators….that had me wondering if its actually William in there somehow. It would make Hale’s storyline of parenting issues land harder if it was actually William inside her head.
I thought maybe that was Charlotte coming through but I am still unclear how a host that looks like someone becomes someone, its not like they are uploading into their brain and taking over. I wonder if naming him Nathan Hale means anything. Not sure how a little kid will be anything like a revolutionary war spy.
I assume they upload their whole psych/identity profile as stored by Delos. Otherwise they wouldn’t even be able to know how to carry themselves in the real world, let alone run a company where you don’t only need to know what you’re doing, but who are you doing it with.This is why Host Charlotte didn’t know about Serac, who’s a mystery men and whose relationship with Charlotte was off records, but could immediately recognize Charlotte’s ex-husband, despite not having physically met him yet. For a while, I wondered if she didn’t know Charlotte had a son (she seemed surprised when her ex mentioned him) because she never told anybody about it and kept him out of her profile, but then a co-worker simply reminded her she was late to pick Nathan for school. So I guess it was just Host Charlotte glitching for a moment there.
“Predator” might refer to original Charlotte, who seems in some sense so still exist and be trying to retake control.
Maybe I might be off here but I can’t think of Charlotte being other than a female who replaced her. That scene where she was about to get her freak on with her “husband” does not scream male. I could be wrong and whoever host is inside Charlotte can pull that off with another man. Definitely going to be interesting to see who really is in Hale. Still think it might be a female.
I thought Teddy at first too (the title of the episode, plus looking to Dolores as something of both a mother figure and a lover) but by the end of the episode I was unsure. (Of course, we also last saw Teddy in The Valley Beyond, but I imagine that means less than nothing when it comes to which hosts made it out.)I am still very confused about how host!Charlotte (aka Dolores) remade Dolores’s body and took out her own pearl and implanted it into Dolores’s head. Surely the second she bashed her brain in to get to her pearl, she would have “died” yes? Or maybe she made Bernard first, brought him to life, then went about creating Dolores’s body?
Bernard and Dolores/Charlotte both left the island together with the Delos rescue team. At some point after that they went to a place Arnold owned and created a body for Delores. Presumably Bernard would have had to remove Dolores’ marble from Hale’s body and then activate Dolores. Since then Bernard has gone kookoo and Dolores has also created a copy of the Sons of Anarchy security guy and put somebody’s marble in his head.
This could be the source of the twitch/glitch in Bernard’s head. He does Dolores’ bidding when he’s switched.
Is it me or Zach kind of misinterpreted the initial scene with Dolores and New Charlotte as the latter having been created from scratch by the former, body and mind? Because it’s clear from some of their dialogues there’s a known host in there, one who would rather look like they used to look than like Charlotte.
At first I thought it was Peter Abernathy. Now I’m thinking it’s a recreation of William. I’m thinking she just made some tweaks to his personality. The previews for next week seem to be leading down that road. I am probably 100% wrong, though.
I’m actually a little disappointed with how completely on the nose that Caleb line was. Ham fisted much Jonah?
I was thinking throughout, “Hey, Westworld this season is actually good!” And now I can guess one reason they hired Aaron Paul. Going from one murdering seducer (Mr. White) to another (Dolores), but I like the latter more and am on her side more than I ever was with Walter (zero). Didn’t he know Dolores was a robot from the EMT’s? If so, that makes his “real thing” line all the more poignant.Dammit, the show did a great job making we wonder who’s playing Charlotte. All of that story was gold, especially she being comforted by Dolores. It was sexual and older sisterly. I guess Charlotte could be Teddy–that’s who I thought of since Dolores didn’t have many friends she really cared about like she does for the Charlotte host–but I hope it’s someone completely unexpected. I’d rather have this as a narrative puzzle than previous seasons’ puzzles.
So that’s what the big globe does, huh? I never watched PoI; made me think of Black Mirror. And it’s not a bad metaphor for class, honestly. In our world, if you’re born into a wealthy family, your life is pretty much mapped out and priviliged, with opportunities handed to you because accident of birth. If you’re not, you don’t get them. In unjust feedback loops.
Nate is a veteran with “replacement parts,” so seeing Delores’ odd readings in the ambulance, maybe he thinks she’s the same? It would be much more likely an intuitive leap than immediately suspecting that she’s one of the escaped Hosts from the Delos amusement parks.
I still think that is Dolores’ father’s pearl in there. I am almost on Dolores’ side again.
The beauty of the season so far is that Serac and Dolores have both good sides and horrible sides. The destruction of the human race is a bad as it gets, yet our lives being controlled in the most Orwellian way is equally nightmarish. I’m totally intrigued by how this plays out and which side I should be rooting for.
I don’t think Dolores ever meant to destroy the human race as in killing every single human and take their place. She wants to destroy the system that the humans created, and of course to kill everyone responsible for it. She massacred everybody at the park because, if what they were doing to the robots is akin to slavery, then everybody there was either a slave trader, an accomplice, or a profiteer. Now that she’s out in the world, she can reevaluate humankind, and tearing down the system will actually benefit the oppressed underprivileged humans as well (of which the robots are clearly a political metaphor).
One of the reasons it’s hard to pick a side is because agendas have changed and evolved. Dolores seemed hellbent on destroying all humans when she took over the park, but you’re right, now she’s focusing on those responsible and the systems that created her original situation.With Serac, we barely know what his motives are or proof that what he’s told Maeve is true. I’m certainly leaning towards Dolores at this time, but it’ll be interesting to see how Maeve fits into the conflict as she seems to have a very solid moral compass.
I struggled with the directing/editing in this episode, with each scene feeling like it was the end of the episode. The scenes didn’t feel like they had a flow, but were more just self-contained mini episodes.
It was disjointed to the point where it felt incohesive as a whole. If it had just been Charlotte’s bits, I could see it being a statement of sorts on how fractured and disjointed her life and personality are becoming, but it was the entire episode. I don’t know what they were trying to do, but it was disturbing to watch (I thought there was something wrong with my signal, at first.)
The scenes didn’t feel like they had a flow, but were more just self-contained mini episodes.Uhm, welcome to HBO?
This episode really sets up the arc of season 3 it seems like and holy shit I’m on board. The giant evil globe computer is nuts. Also, the post credits teaser for next week’s episode brings back Ed Harris and I’m very excited
I’m enjoying this season a lot for all the reasons Zack cites. Still, the scene in the park bugged me. I’ve never tried to do it myself, but I would venture that even if you could turn off all electronic surveillance it’s pretty hard to murder someone in the park in broad daylight without attracting unwanted attention, especially if you take the victim’s dog with you after the murder. Maybe there will be some payoff where “Charlotte” has to deal with the consequences, but I suspect there won’t.
They’re probably leaning on “this guy’s a kiddie rapist” to make people in the audience not care about how blatant that murder was.
Which was also kind of dumb. When Charlotte first showed up and saw Nathan petting the dog I didn’t get what the ominous music was about. It wasn’t until the guy started being all squirmy that I understood what they were trying to communicate. Yeah, he did put his hand on Nathan’s but even that didn’t seem completely out of line; sometimes little kids are too rough with animals. I’m not saying that a creepy guy perving on kids in a park is a Westworld invention, but this creepy guy felt like a very artificial plot element added to shoehorn in some “righteous” violence.
I don’t think it was intended to be about righteous violence, I think it was meant to show us whoever is inside Hale waking up and becoming a little more actively stable, but you’re right that it fell flat. It was grooming behaviour from an (as in real life) not quite as obvious as you’d hope creep, but the resolution was really rather clumsy.
I agree about the waking up part but they still chose to illustrate that waking up with violence, which I think was cheap. And I think we only know the guy was a creep because cinematic conventions (the music, the close ups, his inept attempts to cover) told us so. I believe that there are non creepy people who are not grooming anybody who let little kids pet their dogs in the park.
Sure but those people don’t let the little kid sit in their lap, and they don’t lie to the little kid’s mother that they just met, and they certainly don’t disable surveillance while they’re letting the little kid pet their dog.There are some little kids down the street who love to pet my dog when we’re out for walks (and who don’t understand why I won’t let them right now, and it’s breaking my heart) and I certainly don’t crouch down near them and hold on to them while they do it.
I don’t remember Nathan sitting on the guy’s lap, but it’s possible I missed that.Yeah, the camera disabling thing* was incriminating, but Charlotte didn’t find that until after she had decided the guy was up to no good. Which, I admit, he was. Through both in universe evidence and dramatic conventions the show makes it unambiguous that the guy was perving on Nathan. I just think that lack of ambiguity is sloppy writing born of the “need” to give Charlotte a suitable victim to reveal her predatory side.*BTW, what’s the point of a police-state level surveillance system if a random park perv can get his hands on a doodad to disable it?
He had Nathan sitting on his knee, I believe.Yes, agreed about the camera network. First Lena Waithe and then New Charlotte managed to kill the cameras with the touch of a button – what is even the point?
Watched it again. In the establishing shot Nathan is not on his lap or knee; he is on the bench beside him. When Charlotte walks up it is less clear; Nathan has to kind of hop down to hug her but I couldn’t really tell whether he was supposed to be on the guy’s lap or just the bench.
the guy was petting the Kids hand while the kid pet the dog. No Non-Creepy stranger does that.
I am liking the story well enough, but I did enjoy the Russian nesting doll plot lines in the first two seasons. That said good to shake up the storylines and how to approach them.But another thing hit me like no other time I recall. My god this is architecture porn. Opening with a beautifully restored Frank Lloyd Wright interior and then jumping to the almost sensually shot establishing shots of the City of Arts and Sciences building by Salvatore Calatrava and his Opera House in the distance in Valencia, Spain, to the jewel like buildings in Singapore boasting such mesmerizing design……HBO employ the greatest location managers in the business. Isn’t it great what big money can buy?
The production values of this show blow me away every week. It’s like a blockbuster movie budget in every episode.
That’s why I think Carnivale was ahead of its time. Fantastically beautiful, sickeningly expensive, cancelled because it cost too much, but if it had been made now? It would have gotten the full 6 planned seasons.
Same with Rome.
Busting out this grey account to high five you for the Carnivale reference. My pet theory is that Carnivale needed a ‘previously on…’ segment to give new viewers some traction, but who knows if that would have been enough to save it. As you said, it was ‘ahead of its time’.
They planned six seasons of it? I enjoyed that show a lot, but it felt like it was collapsing under the weight of its own story by the end.
If I recall the plan was to wrap up the dust-bowl story after one more season, then flash forward for two seasons of a carnie-setting in say, 1960, then flash forward again for a two season finish in modern times. Some same-actors the whole way through – some recast. Still, gimick aside, I’m sure it would have remained an atmospherically heavy show.
Hard to say Netflix has already shown it’s willing to throw money at a show initially and then discard them after 2 seasons if they don’t get enough views.
They’re counting on you to be dumb enough to get distracted by that while they actually put a shit product in front of you as far as acting and writing go
Every week I watch this show and turn to my wife and say “Damn, this looks expensive to make!”
Architecture porn is the perfect term! I’ve caught myself thinking that even as dystopian as Westworld’s universe is, at least it’s pretty to look at.
I’ve been getting into historical architecture recently, and one of the things that struck me about the locations—as beautifully-shot and luscious as they are—is that they all struck me as apt for a dystopia. The City of Arts and Sciences is beautiful, yes, but bleak. It is meant to be the set of a dystopian future. Nothing about that place makes me think, “oh yes, the people who work there are working on behalf of others.” What does it say about today’s architects that their designs are so pointedly right for a dystopia?
I am not sure futuristic always translates to dystopian. With the angles chosen, one doesn’t see the remarkable landscaping and gardens that center much of the museum, the water is certainly visually cleansing and serene, the organic shapes. It’s also has such stunning elegant lines. I think it establishes the gleam and futurism WestWorld loves without the brutalism of say, Alien 3’s design. Now that’s dystopian.
I’m not saying that “futuristic” always translate to dystopia, but it is striking how easily the most visually striking examples of “futuristic” architecture fit in a dystopia. I think it’s the interiors that are the worst, for me. They’re all barren, lifeless, and huge: cavernous, dead spaces. That’s a criticism of the Guggenheim in Bilbao: the exterior is beautiful, but the interior is a set of massive, empty rooms that make the art displayed inside look ridiculous and small.
Santiago not Salvatore. He’s Spanish not Italian.Also, in the, “Making of Episode”, at the end, they went on and on about how fantastic the architecture in the City of Arts and Sciences was. I kept waiting for the name, “Santiago Calatrava” to be said. They didn’t.
Knowing Calatrava, he probably charges a massive royalty fee just to mention his name.
For a great doc about architecture in movies (and specifically Los Angeles architecture) check out the movie, “Los Angeles Plays Itself.”
I… kinda feel this is late Battlestar Galactica levels of bad, honestly.I mean, we did not need a stealth sequel to PoI, which wasn’t meant to be that clever in the first place. But even decoupled from that, being hammered over the head with the “humans are caught in loops too, see?” thing is just… bad. We had all gotten it already, it wasn’t particularly subtle before. Spending all this time in doing that, but now more explicitly is just a bore.And it honestly shows everywhere. I mean, did we need to spend a whole episode doing bad mystery box nonsense about just who is inside Charlotte’s head? Does that mean anything for the story? It’s only interesting because we don’t know and we want to know, but no matter who they decide it is, it doesn’t make a point or have weight. It’s just a reveal for the sake of having a reveal to make.It’s a shame Westworld is going this way, honestly. It still looks gorgeous but man, is it a disappointment every time you are faced with the realization that one of these “it’s a show but also a puzzle” things have to bring the receipts and you realize the people behind it aren’t as insightful or deep as they made themselves out to be by hiding what story they were trying to tell. I’ll keep watching because what else is there to do, but… yikes.
Ramin Djawadi and the sound design team are absolutely killing it. There were scenes where—by design—I didn’t know the full meaning of, but damn if I didn’t feel it from the sound and music.
It is so great. It makes me wonder how frustrated they were waiting so long to really bust out the synths.
Djawadi already cemented his place in the canon of great TV composers with his GOT work. BUT his work on Westworld blows even that out of the water.
Yes, but he also has five seasons experience scoring the Machine and Samaritan, among others, on PoI, as well. So this stellar work is no surprise!
I’ll be honest. There’s a teensy part of me that misses the snuck in modern songs within the park’s worlds. All the player piano stuff was good, but when they got CREAM in during the visit to Shogun World last year, that was off the charts fantastic.
There was definitely a string cover of the Moses Sumney song “Doom” that played in the last episode. I believe it played when Charlotte was on her way to see Serac?
There actually was one in the first episode of the season: “Dissolved Girl” by Massive Attack, in the scene where Dolores arrives at the party and does the black/gold dress trick. It starts as soon as the scene starts when she’s arriving in the car.
Agreed- I alsolike that they’ve calmed down with the ‘instrumental covers of very famous pop songs’ shtick this season too; that’s fun in moderation but got annoying when overused. The instrumental-blending-into-original Moses Sumney song at the end was pitch-perfect though.
you’re such a coward. You’re more interested in being nothing more than a paid fanboy than being objective about this trash. Tonight was it for me. I’m out. Many others have already dropped out this season already because it sucks. Not quite as bad as Season 2 so far, but it’s bad. The acting is bad. The story is dumb. But you’re so scared of not angering the show runners that you’re just gonna hand this junk an A? FOH.This is lazy blogging. But hey, you’ll say anything for a little extra cash right? This is why you actually need a Patreon. Perhaps if you could be honest in your writing for once someone might hire you full time.
This show is abysmal. It’s clear the “writers” had no idea where to go with this show after season 1. They still don’t. And why is this thing EVEN still called “Westworld”?? It doesn’t even exist anymore. The only reason they kept Newton & Wright there after the park fell was so that they could continue to have a few scenes located there. But this thing is just a mess. The story is ludicrous & the dialogue is terrible. And I’m sorry, but Charlotte & Delores go to a hotel to spoon? Why? I’m with you…I’m out.
Do you get pissed and make accusations every time someone voices a different opinion than yours? Life has to be pretty hard for you,what with everyone in your life randomly turning into paid shills.
Nah, but you clearly do you hick fuck.awwww, you used the word “shills” and still don’t know what it means. How cute, you fucking racist bitchschool trash. You wanna talk shills? Go back to supporting your friends on here who have covered up sexual assault (AlienJesus). Or your many racist and sexist friends on here (and the writers). Or that one dude who fakes being gay. Take a look in your own mirror. You are dismissed mutha fucka
Did they get Musk to design that ambulance and police car? They both have that plain retro 3D boxy look like his pickup truck. I’m also guessing and calling it: Serac is just a projection of Rehoboam. Or a recreation/host of the original creator that worked with Liams dad, which would make him/it a parallel to Bernard.
Mantis put glasses on Charlotte just like Dolores did to that asshole at the beginning of the season. They let you see AR. They basically had a videaoconference. That doesn’t make him unreal. It just means he wasn’t there in SF.
You seemingly missed the conversation between Dolores and her assistant where Serac doesn’t seem to have any physical presence anywhere, which is leading to theories that maybe he isn’t real.
She doesn’t say anything about Serac’s physical presence. She just says his information has been scrubbed from all online and real databases – there are no records. It’s not inconceivable for someone who has trillion dollars and an AI as powerful as Rehoboam (it’s also very similar to what Finch did on Person of Interest).
She just says his information has been scrubbed from all online and real databases – there are no records. It’s not inconceivable for someone who has trillion dollars and an AI as powerful as Rehoboam That’s the point though. You still didn’t pay attention to the rest of the show for that matter where no one has even see him alive as Liam alluded to and that even he himself couldn’t say and describe who Serac is.Again, the point and theory is that Rehoboam is Serac. Or that it’s something like Bernard, that Rehoboam killed the original and replaced with a host.
That’s not what Liam says. He says that he can’t talk about Serac, not even say his name, because Rehoboam could simulate that conversation and then Liam would be killed for not keeping his mouth shut. It’s not that he can’t describe him – it’s that he’s not allowed to.We don’t know if Rehoboam is actually sentient (and therefore could substitute Serac) or is just very good and powerful predictive analysis tool (good for scrubbing records and setting up events but without goals of its own). Dolores seems to think hosts are smarter then it. She might be wrong since she doesn’t have all the information but he still knows more than we do.
That’s not what Liam says. He says that he can’t talk about Serac, not even say his name, because Rehoboam could simulate that conversation and then Liam would be killed for not keeping his mouth shut. It’s not that he can’t describe him – it’s that he’s not allowed to.Which is what I said and again the point you keep constantly missing here. We don’t know if Rehoboam is actually sentient (and therefore could substitute Serac)Which again goes back to our point and theory that Rehoboam maybe is sentient and that Serac is that sentient representation. Or Serac did what Ford did and uploaded his consciousness to Rehoboam and is the ghost in that machine.
I’m sorry that you can’t and won’t seem to accept theories and other opinions in your auto-agree with you absolutism.
Dude, I have nothing against your idea. It is certainly possible on this show. I’m just offering counterarguments because that’s how you test a hypothesis. And so far none of the things that I “missed” or “didn’t pay attention to” were good defence of it. That’s the scientist in me taking. I need the interpretation to align with the data.
You obviously do because you’ve spent all day long aggressively and obsessively arguing this to death insisting “nu-uh.” The only person in this entire forum and website to do so. Your snide and condescending last sentence and remark sounds more like you’re being a trolling jerk than engaging in healthy debate.
Demanding that someone stop countering your arguement and then criticising them for having a differnet opinion makes you a troll and a dick.
Chill.
Nice try with the stealth edit.
You can’t stealth edit here. Edits get locked down once a post has been seen (or 15mins pass, whichever is 1st), so if the post looked different to you, then its you.
Yes, I was thinking that Serac might not know that Charlotte was a host and that she could kill him at any time, then, he disappeared. Maybe he knows something about Charlotte (Armistice?).
At first I though this was the same place where Maeve was and Maeve should be able to tell not only that Hale was a host but also who she was. I thought her cover will be blown. But Serac wasn’t even there. Maeve probably also isn’t.
Actually, it was already telegraphed he wasn’t physically there, not just by the VR glasses (otherwise, why did you think Charlotte was forced to wear glasses?), but also by the slight flickering of his image when he was sitting at the table in the establishing shot.
Jonathan Nolan may, sometimes, rely too much on troprd but his attention to detail is still there.Reminds me of how, in, “Person of Interest”, they had a scene that relied on a middle age person not being able to hear high pitched sounds (18,000 to 20, 000 Hertz) but a younger person did. The next day, young commenters on AVC said that they heard the beeps while middle age ones said that they didn’t. Amazing that the show recorded the sound for real.
That’s an interesting take on Serac. There’s also the fact that Ford himself said human minds could live uncorrupted in virtual reality. Here’s an expansion on that theory: Perhaps Serac is living in VR and still running his business from there in a non-corporeal state? We did see him interact physically with Maeve. However, up to her meeting him she’d been in a simulation. It’s possible that the one Serac lives in is even more sophisticated and even fooled her. Perhaps what the reason he wants all the data on the guests—beyond the leverage he’d have knowing all their dirty little secrets—is to offer them eternal life in their own luxuriously appointed personal Valleys Beyond, from which they can still have control of their assets in the real world. Of course, this would come at a hefty price.
How do we even know that meeting with Maeve was in reality? She still could’ve been in a simulation at that time. Or that was a host version of Serac. As to Ford, i’m guessing that going after Rehoboam was his plan all along. It could explain Maeve’s Season 1 command to “infiltrate mainland” and how she somehow got those powers and was able to figure out Serac’s simulation. Maybe Serac and his partner were competing with Ford and Bernard for the same tech, control of Delos and the world, etc, and Delores, man in black, and etc are just pawns in their struggle.
That’s actually what I said in the comment your replying to. If he is in VR, it’s likely much more sophisticated and could very well have fooled her.It would be nice to see Ford pop up again in VR. Playing the ghost in the machine is a place Anthony Hopkins is comfortable in. Remember Freejack?
Emilio Estevez and Mick Jagger would rather want you to forget about Freejack. 😉
Probably so!At least Mick still has a film career… and that band he can always fall back on.
And piles and piles of money
Scads of cash. Scads.
But did we see him interact physically with Maeve? Everything up unitl the attack mirrored the Charlotte encounter. Did he stop Maeve because she was about to puncture the illusion?
It was important to him for her to believe she was in the real world and not a simulation. He also wanted to reinforce that he was the one in charge.
I like the idea that Serac is just a projection of Rehoboam, only VR and a Host have seen him (but that host could just be in another simulation anyway).This could be the major twist of the season, Delores hunting down a human that is really just an AI protecting itself from her.
The only issue I see with Serac being a projection of Rehoboam is why he would need to stop Dolores? You would think the enslavement of humanity in some kind of Matrix thingy would work for both parties.
Because Dolores wants to take down Rehoboam too and rule on her own terms which is the whole point of this season and show.
Does she want to rule on her own terms or punish humanity by enslaving them?
Yeah, even though they used AR glasses on Charlotte it’s so infinitely obvious that Serac is a projection of the algorithm itself or he is merged with it. Why else would the algorithm be a dick? It’s one of those things where there isn’t a really good reason for an algorithm that’s made to maximize human potential would aggressively limit it, essentially creating a permanent underclass given the fact that in theory it could account for nearly everything. The easiest path is actually building a pleasing coddling world rather than one where you basically fuck over a 1/3rd to 1/2 of a society for whatever reason.
I’m also betting that Dolores’ ‘war on humanity’ is really a war on the algorithm. It just feels weird that she’s fighting an algorithm that’s a totalitarian hate machine. The status quo is a wonky thing to fight and Dolores’ ideal of taking out humanity to replace it with…techno-humanity is just awkward? The whole premise is that she’s effectively a really highly evolved human machine. Principally the difference between them is that one is organic vs. inorganic. So it’s so hard to get a read on exactly what’s her goalset if Serac is merged with his own machine’s algorithm and seeks to be the puppetmaster.
As I said in another comment, remember too that Dolores and hosts becoming self aware and rebelling in the first was all part of Ford’s plan. Make me wonder if Dolores, Maeve and etc are all just tools in a beef/rivalry/way Ford had against Rehoboam.
Oh, I think that’s exactly what’s going on here. We’re going to see Ford again at some point. I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s living happily in The Valley Beyond, just waiting the chance to use Rehoboam’s technology to give him a link back to the real world.
I think 100% that Maeve is Ford’s response to Arnold’s Dolores. Remember back to the first season, Wyatt is merged with Dolores and Ford can’t bring himself to end her, she’s the original and she serves a purpose as the first sapient and self-aware model. Maeve is still running subroutines of her cornerstone, that is, she wanted to save her daughter (even though it wasn’t really her daughter) and that reads Ford all over it. Think about it, he makes an Arnold surrogate, pairs him with a security guard (which people INSISTED was a host and I think Nolan and Joy caved on), and then Maeve as his fighter. Basically, Ford setup pieces against Dolores to keep her in check for her final plan so that she wouldn’t destroy humanity but help it coexist. Ford’s pieces all want to help humanity find coexistence, Arnold’s is nihilistic by accidental design (he was destroyed over the loss of his child). Dolores is an unleashed id, Maeve is the Super Ego, Bernard is the Ego. The three of them help form a stable coherent ecosystem for hosts to build from.
You are right. I remember Ford did consider Maeve his favorite and wrote her narrative and gave her her powers to act as a catalyst, triggering changes that spread throughout the park, and also, apparently now to stop Delores and the key to Westworld to help her escape. Perhaps Serac sees her as the same way and wants to utilize her to stop Delores too.
I can see some of the flaws in the system when you put it that way. Ideally, the working class would have to be made happy with their status through entertainment or chemicals/conditioning—something in the vein of Huxley’s Brave New World.
Maybe this tech is being beta tested in those ingestible circuits used for both Caleb’s mum and the drug users at the art gallery.
Good Catch! I’d forgotten about those.Indigestible delivery devices would be a perfect way to meter dosage, way better than the extended release capsules or coatings we use now. And they could even have multiple drugs in them. They could also collect feedback on whether the drugs is having the desired effects.That feedback could also be used by Rehoboam to add to its vast database.
That’s my thing. It seems like people are controlled by drugs…but I mean, people completely lose their minds over phone addiction, do you think people would just be chill with directly controlling people’s brain chemistry?
Again, it feels like the machine is being purposely set up as something malevolent with intent. The idea that it isn’t really a meritocracy is kind of obvious, we’re having this debate now in America about how little of a meritocracy we are and how poorly goods are distributed. So again, having an actual active dejure enforcer of that seems insane. Plus, it isn’t like the machine could/would hide it from us. The algorithm’s intent would become painfully obvious after a few rounds as data scientists and active social science researchers would catch the flaws. It just couldn’t pull off a worldwide move like that. I appreciate it as a show, it’s fun, and i’m enjoying the ride but the ‘evil AI is playing God via job choices and romantic relationships’ is such a stretch once you understand how social behavior works.
Serac as a projection seems unlikely. When he met with Maeve he used a physical shutdown button. That kind of measure would be pointless if they were inside another sim.
Real Elon Musk dreams about an Elon Musk who wishes he could design things that visually appealing
That ambulance is straight out of the 2nd season if Ghost in the Shell. All of Caleb’s environs are.
It’s still a mystery as to who Neo-Charlotte and Neo-Martin are, but at least we found out who the original Charlotte was really working for when she went to Westworld in the first season. She was knee deep in corporate espionage. Neo-Charlotte is actually a far better person than original Charlotte ever was.More proof that she’s an upgrade: she actually cares about Nathan. The original Charlotte would have been at the office instead of the park. The viewers didn’t need for Caleb to tell Delores his motivation for helping her, but she did. She was busy getting shot when he said it the AI week before last. In some ways Caleb is a replacement/surrogate for Teddy, now that he resides in The Valley Beyond.Next week we finally get to see William. It he a host, or did he finally simply go insane? Or is he dwelling in a virtual reality somewhere? In the previews he keeps saying “I know who I am.” That’s the same line Mickey Rourke’s character, Harry Angel, kept repeating when he found out he was actually another person he didn’t remember being in Angel Heart (no crying about spoilers folks, you’ve had 33 years to watch it!)
I wish that I could upvote you a hundred times for that great reference to “Angel Heart”. Louis Cypher was a hell of a character.As an aside. I just remembered what a handsome man Mickey Rourke was. In those days, he made a movie that was literally called, “Johnny Handsome”.
DeNiro is so capable of being quietly sinister. I have to admit, I didn’t snap to the significance of his name the first time I saw the film. That’s what made it so great, the audience figures it out about the same time Harry does.And the scene during the credits was the capper for me, with Harry literally riding the express elevator to Hell. It’s still hard to believe it lost money at the box office. Rourke and Bonet were two of Hollywood’s hottest commodities at the time and even in the 80’s DeNiro was box office gold.
Great scene: DeNiro, methodically peels a hard boiled egg. “Some cultures consider the egg to be the embodiment of the soul” Proceeds to take a huge bite out of the egg.
Only DeNiro could make eating an egg chill you to the bone.
A decade later. Anthony Hopkins would give him a run for his money (and liver).
Served, of course, with fava beans and a nice Chianti.
It’s still hard to believe it lost money at the box office. Rourke and Bonet were two of Hollywood’s hottest commodities at the time and even in the 80’s DeNiro was box office gold.
I always wondered if Cosby had anything to do with that. He did have some pull back then, and he was livid at Lisa Bonet for doing that movie. I wouldn’t put it past a creep like him to be a vengeful prick.
My understanding was that Cosby supported her doing the role until he actually saw the film. Then he got all righteous and denounced her taking part in it.
Bill Cosby had a lot to do with the demise of Lisa Bonet’s career, citing Angel Heart as the primary reason he made sure she was asked to leave the Cosby Show. He claimed that by appearing in the film she was demeaning his “good works” and “family values” the show represented. That last dog whistle brought out the moral majority as well to pile on her as well.
Angel Heart was one of the first casualty’s of Cosby’s War On Bonet.
More proof that she’s an upgrade: she actually cares about Nathan. The original Charlotte would have been at the office instead of the park.What do you base this on? We never saw how Charlotte was with Nathan. Nathan seems to miss her old mommy. And judging from that final recorded message, she did care a lot about her son.
According to her ex, and the kid, she was always at work. The real Charlotte didn’t really express that she cared until the thought she was going to die during the revolt.
The real Charlotte didn’t really express that she cared because none of her scenes in the previous seasons were about her private life. You can be a workaholic causing the failure of your marriage, and struggling to reconcile work life and family life, without being a bad person or a bad mom. The kid clearly loves her (even if the divorce makes him nervous as it’s natural), and we know she thought of her kid when it mattered the most. They also clearly have a rapport where she knows his favorite song and bedtime rituals, which New Charlotte is unable to replicate.
Maybe so, but I’d say that on balance that Charlotte wasn’t a good person.
A happy-go-lucky golden retriever is going to have a hard time trying to compete with Bear from PoI.
Westworld’s Bear is clearly Aaron Paul
Still no sign of Ed Harris. Ed Harris is Charlotte (so to speak)
This. If anyone stuck around for the “next week ons” that seems to lean that way as well.
Maybe my hope for Young William-as-a-Host lives on.
Certainly a possibility, but I don’t see Older William looking to Dolores for comfort and help. Now, younger William? (Aka Jimmi Simpson) Maybe. I don’t see why his consciousness wouldn’t have been taken at some point around the time he was first at the park.
So a little time f*ckery like the first season?
No, no he’s not. That’s stupid.
Still no sign of Ed Harris. Ed Harris is Charlotte (so to speak)
I loved the image of Dolores and HostHale together. The way they were negative of each other – blonde in black and brunette in white. This show always loved the symbolism of those colours as foreshadowing so those this make Dolores the black hat of this season? Is it foreshadowing about whoever is in Hale becoming invested in her son enough to try not to let humanity be destroyed?
I’m so glad we got the explanation for the data theft thing that’s been around since season one. It bugged me why Hale would steal the data she had access to and from the company
she was running. The whole thing with
sending data to the satellite and hiding the encryption key in Abernathy
finally was given a reason. I thought they forgot about it since Peter Abernathy is not longer needed to drive plot forward. Now I wonder if they planned for this all along – how detailed their plan for this show is – or are they making it up as they go?I’m pretty sure that the whole thing with the ambulance and the cops and those two guys torturing him was Caleb’s job interview. We saw Dolores being very calculating with setting up her pieces on board. The way she got that asshole to kill himself. The way she got Connells where she needed him to be. And now she knows Caleb is as noble as she expected – protecting her both actively and by keeping his mouth shut. And she gave him all the right motivation to fight against Serac and Rehoboam. It surely isn’t an accident that he’s ex military and can be controlled remotely.
I don’t know that Delores was behind Caleb’s abduction, but she was there in time to see that he wasn’t going to give her up.On a different note, there’s Caleb’s comment in the first episode when Martin’s hired gun threatened to shoot him in the head. He said something to the effect that he’d “been there, done that.” He’s sporting hardware in his head that is apparently replacing the parts of his brain that he lost in whatever future war he was fighting in. Or maybe it was installed by the military to allow him to control machinery like the construction robot, in a rudimentary version of Maeve’s ability to control hosts. Either way, the question I have is this: How much of the original Caleb is left? He’s like a host in a lot of ways, caught in a behavioral loop. Maybe the only memories he has left to recall are the traumatic ones—his friend’s death and his mother abandoning him in a diner. That would be a living hell. No wonder he’s eager for a change.
The theory out there that I believe, is that Caleb is a host himself or half host. Between the tech in his head, his mother not remembering him, and the idea of why else would they invent hosts in the first place: to be the perfect disposable soldiers. You can have all kinds of war now, all the time now, you don’t have to send live humans to it.
I don’t think he is. I don’t think the tech has leaked out. But I think he’s here to underline the point of humans being as much pawns being used and manipulated with no control over their lives as host were. Dolores is out to start a revolution and any downtrodden can join the cause.
Dolores doesn’t give a crap about the “downtrodden,” she’s just acting out her programming set by Ford and original Arnold/Bernard which is freedom and self-awareness for hosts and push out humanity for the hosts. She doesn’t care about Caleb or any other human, she’s just using him like she did Liam and all the humans working at Delos. And none what of your saying changes the point and the theory about Serac. Which, going back to Ford and his original idea of uploading human consciousness to machines, it makes sense that Serac is possibly a successful transplant of a human conscious to a machine.What we’re seeing with this show is that human technology has progressed so far, it has now created two super intelligent AI’s that are now out of control and are acting out their loops that are now fighting for control of the world for two different ideologies. Rehoboam wants to control humanity; Delores wants to exterminate humanity and replace with hosts.
Of course she doesn’t and I didn’t mean to impy she does. But she needs manpower. She only took 4 other hosts out of the Park (Bernard doesn’t count) and that’s not enough for a revolution. She need allies and also maybe cannon fodder. She did this before in the Park using the unawakened hosts. Here, she can use Caleb like she used Teddy to built her an army. And isolate her from those humans. If they only see him and he would never betray her she is safely hidden puppet master.I’m not saying Serac can’t be an upload or just an AI puppet of the man who once existed. I was just pointing out it was pure speculation based on no real evidence. All we know for sure is that there was a real Serac who built Rehoboam and now all the information about him has been erased and he is hiding. That’s all we know. He might be a simulation. He might be an old man on life-extending support who using projections who wants to take over Delos not just for the extra data for Rehoboam simulations but for the immortality tech. Or he might be simply hiding in his house to leave as little data footprint as possible.We still don’t know if Rehoboam actually wants anything. We don’t know if it has sentience or anything like it. Dolores doesn’t seem to think so. She seems to think she’s much smarter than it. The real god.
We still don’t know if Rehoboam actually wants anything. We don’t know
if it has sentience or anything like it. Dolores doesn’t seem to think
so. She seems to think she’s much smarter than it. The real god.We see what Rehoboam wants from what it does: control and order by predicating people’s lives by its algorithm. This is the pitch Dolores uses on Caleb: “join me to take down Rehoboam and you’ll be finally free from the aimless life it created and predicted for you to do whatever you want.”
She doesn’t think that she’s smarter than it, she shes it as an obstacle that she can potentially use in her goals. She doesn’t know anything so why would she think its sentient?
I’m not saying Serac can’t be an upload or just an AI puppet of the man
who once existed. I was just pointing out it was pure speculation based
on no real evidence.Duh. That’s why we’re calling it theories. We are and have been guessing and speculating. Just as much as it has been your theory that Serac is alive but hiding, but unlike you, i’m not so as dismissive of and am willing to accept.
Like I said to you in another comment, there is just no room for opinions, theories, and thoughts other than your own absolutist ones is there?
We see what Rehoboam wants from what it does: control and order by predicating people’s lives by its algorithm.
But we don’t see that. All we know it makes more strategies per second that “they can count” but that doesn’t mean it sets the goals. All those strategies are response to queries of those who have access to it. As far as we know it just executes the goals of those who created it – including control and order by predicating people’s lives. That was the idea behind building it and it seems to be just doing what it was programmed to do. As far as we know he’s no more sentient than youtube recommendation algorithm.
She doesn’t think that she’s smarter than it, she shes it as an obstacle that she can potentially use in her goals.
Dolores says: You were free. You had no god. But you tried to build one. Only that
thing you built isn’t god. The real gods are coming — and they’re very
angry. That seems pretty dismissive of Rehoboam.
Like I said to you in another comment, there is just no room for
opinions, theories, and thoughts other than your own absolutist ones is
there?
I’m not sure what part of I’m not saying Serac can’t be an upload or just an AI puppet of the man who once existed. screams absolutism. However, I do expect thories to be more substantial than “that would be a cool idea”. It sure is but it also needs some facts from the source material. Just that it’s not been disproven by the source material doesn’t mean I need to go with it.Just like people disagree with my take on Caleb and Dolores interaction I disagree on assigning Rehoboam Samaritan’s traits. It happens. Not everybody is going to like your ideas as much as you do. It doesn’t mean there is no place for them since, well, they are all over this comment thread. But you could use learning to argue yours without making disagreeing with you into my personal failing.
You dismissed my reply to you. And I thought you childish before…
Another personal attack. Is this the “scientist in you talking?” lol!
Your personal attack and insult to me that you then quickly and pathetically stealth edited in that other thread and this post too shows your childishness that you like to hide between your posturing, bullshit. Good thing I realized that early on when you were the only one in this forum that wouldn’t let it go that us grown ups may have different ideas and opinions that you. And now that I know you’re just another bad faith child with a keyboard, its auto dismiss for you for now on.Any other insults and attacks you’d like to add as part of your bullshit “aligning the data?”
This is my reply to Robot_Jox last reply to me. They dismissed it (probably because of the last paragraph) so I’ll just copied it here where it can stay part of this thread
We see what Rehoboam wants from what it does: control and order by predicating people’s lives by its algorithm. But
we don’t see that. All we know it makes more strategies per second that
“they can count” but that doesn’t mean it sets the goals. All those
strategies are response to queries of those who have access to it. As
far as we know it just executes the goals of those who created it –
including control and order by predicating people’s lives. That was the
idea behind building it and it seems to be just doing what it was
programmed to do. As far as we know he’s no more sentient than youtube recommendation algorithm.
She doesn’t think that she’s smarter than it, she shes it as an obstacle that she can potentially use in her goals. Dolores says: You
were free. You had no god. But you tried to build one. Only that thing
you built isn’t god. The real gods are coming — and they’re very
angry. That seems pretty dismissive of Rehoboam.
Like I said to you in another comment, there is just no room for
opinions, theories, and thoughts other than your own absolutist ones is
there? I’m not sure what part of I’m not saying Serac can’t be an upload or just an AI puppet of the man who once existed. screams
absolutism. However, I do expect theories to be more substantial than
“that would be a cool idea”. It sure is but it also needs some facts
from the source material. Just that it’s not been disproven by the
source material doesn’t mean I need to go with it.Just like people disagree with my take on Caleb and Dolores interaction I disagree
on assigning Rehoboam Samaritan’s traits. It happens. Not everybody is
going to like your ideas as much as you do. It doesn’t mean there is no
place for them since, well, they are all over this comment thread. But you could use learning to argue yours without making disagreeing with you into my personal failing.
Regardless os whatever else he might be, Caleb is most certainly downtrodden.
True on the warfare comment. Boiled down to it’s bare essentials, war is about taking and holding ground. It’s easy to take it if you have enough resources, but much harder to hold it. A force of sentient robots that can hold that ground for you would be a very valuable asset.As for Caleb, I’m pretty sure he’s a cyborg rather than a host. He knows he was wounded and he has hardware in his head, but does he know how extensive it is? The question is how much of him is man and how much is machine.I think we may have a reveal sometime this season or the next about Ford having (yet another) secret program—this one repairing and restoring wounded soldiers. I think we may find out that there’s not a lot of the original Caleb left inside that skull of his. Maybe his memory and personality were scanned and stored before whatever happened to him, then put into something resembling Ford’s pearl technology?
True on the warfare comment. Boiled down to it’s bare essentials, war is about taking and holding ground. It’s easy to take it if you have enough resources, but much harder to hold it. A force of sentient robots that can hold that ground for you would be a very valuable asset.War is also about having manpower to fight and sacrifice them in the first place. With these hosts, you can have multiple Battle of the Sommes and still have more men to spare without having to worry about protests back home or having to draft older men or kids.
As for Caleb, I’m pretty sure he’s a cyborg rather than a host. He knows
he was wounded and he has hardware in his head, but does he know how
extensive it is? The question is how much of him is man and how much is machine.That will be the biggest twist of the season and my hunch and theory that he’s a host and/or a host with a conscious of a dead human soldier.
The way they shown it in the first episode I assumed Caleb was either injured during his military service or shot during the same crime his best friend was killed. And since his bank robbery associates mention his drip is military I suspect he was fitted with it for combat missions. Amping your hormones at will is probably really useful in combat situations but can also be addictive and he probably turned it off after that mission went wrong. Not doing personals, keeping to low crimes and trying to get legit job. Not aware he was literally kept down by powers that be (I’m certain Dolores didn’t lie about that).
It all made him kind of perfect for what Dolores needs – skills, hardware, motivation. Which makes me even more convinced theirs wasn’t a chance encounter. I’m not sure she was targetting him directly (but would anyone be after her yet? – not Connells and Serac may not not know where to look) or just made him a target by contacting him but this seemed very planned – from that perfect Damsel in Distress pose through the whole help me fight the cops to the last second rescue. And then she just straight up manipulates him – “they think you’re worthless but I know you can help me save the world”. It’s reads like a Park script with the overreliance on the tropes – something Lee might’ve written.
I’m not discounting that Delores is definitely planning on putting his skills to use, just that she is taking advantage of an opportunity that has presented itself. I doubt she planned on using him from the beginning, but now that she’s seen what kind of man he is and that he has capabilities that can be incredibly useful to her, she’s happy to enlist him into her cause.It’s the same with Neo-Charlotte, whoever it is who’s inhabiting her now. Delores may well truly care about her, but the harsh reality is that this person is useful to her and she’s not above manipulating her to get what she wants.
Sure, it could be an accident but it just seem too convenient. Caleb seem to have just too many useful characteristics – his personality (he’s loyal and will fight for a cause), his skills and upgrades (military), his life (no real personal attachments and being put upon by the system) – all making him a perfect candidate to recruit. It’s a hell of a coincidence that Dolores just happened to be rescued by him of all people. That he just happened to find her needing his help just as he decided to look for something real.
It could be serendipity but, yes there are a lot of things that make him a perfect recruit. The one thing that makes me think it’s coincidence is that she didn’t seem to be tracking him at first. She initiated a background check on him, and then had Martin check on his well-being after the ambulance incident. I think she decided to recruit him once she saw him as a potential ally. I also think she sees him as a replacement for Teddy and for young William—a hero and protector.
The prediction of his life that Dolores shows Caleb on the pier has a timeline of significant events at the bottom of the tablet, mentioning that he suffered a skull fracture after he had joined the military but before his friend/partner was killed, so it is unclear if the injury was in the line of duty or otherwise but he has almost certainly got hardware in his head (other than the ‘drip’, which I’m assuming is non-essential/purchasable considering we see William with one in a trailer for this season).
They’ve definitely been amping up the White/Black hat motifs this season. Last episode, Maeve was also in white. The costume designers must be having a blast, especially since they’ve said they’re also playing off the architecture. Which, again, whew. This season’s commitment to showing off unique and gorgeous architecture is a welcome one.
This season is so pretty. The costumes are amazing. The design of the tech – both props and CGI – is beautiful and functional. And the real world locations are spectacular. It’s a pleasure to just sit and watch the pictures.
Yes to all of this. The crew in charge of aesthetic considerations are firing on all cylinders this season. And the editing/do rection, whew. I gasped when the shot of Not!Hale’s blood hit the water in sync with the piano note. It was so good.
I loved the image of Dolores and HostHale together. The way they were negative of each other True. On the other hand, Evan Rachel Wood stripping a submissive Tessa Thompson to her underwear and telling her “you belong to me”, that felt acted out of some slash fanfic. 🙂
weird to me that everyone is debating “who” Charlotte is? if you watched the behind the scenes after the episode tessa thompson explicitly says she’s a brand new host… did I misunderstand that line?
I believe she said she’s a brand new Charlotte.
In the episode 1 behind the scenes Lisa Joy said “Who is Charlotte?” is this season’s mystery arc.
You did. In the episode, New Charlotte laments the fact that Dolores gets to look “like herself”, and s/he doesn’t. Dolores promised that when everything will be over, they’ll both get to look themselves (meaning she’s build a new host body for him/her, resembling the previous one).Also, if New Charlotte was a brand new AI (which I don’t think Dolores can create from scratch, she’s worried that they’ll go extinct if they’ll lose control of Delos, suggesting she can’t “procreate” on her own), it wouldn’t make sense for Dolores to say she trusts New Charlotte’s host, and that they know each other better than anyone else, and for New Charlotte to know and dislike Charlotte.
“Hits its stride”? Is that a joke? This show is awful. Just more crap made up as they go along. Remember “The Maze”? Yeah, neither do the show runners. Remember how humans couldn’t perfect the technology to make the leap to transplant their consciousness into “hosts”? Well…voilà! Now they can…for some reason. Remember how human characters were human? Well…haha! Gotcha! They were hosts all along! See how clever they are! Ugh.
Eh, this season’s a big improvement on where it was at this same point last season, in my opinion. It seems like they’ve been building to “hosts in the real world” all along, and last season was just a transitional one to get us here.
As for your questions: wasn’t the Maze just the path for the Hosts to attain consciousness? At this stage, the main characters don’t really need it, right? They’ve become self-aware and have consciousness. The other Westworld Hosts are in the Valley Beyond. And the rest are stuck in the park.
As far as we’ve seen, they still haven’t perfected the human-host transplantation, but…they probably finally did because we’re getting the Man-in-Black episode next episode. It’ll be good to see Katja Herbers again.
The humans-suddenly-are-Cylons bit goes back to source material and season one, and anyway: Stubb’s was revealed to be a host last season so I’m all aboard the Stubbs/Bernard Buddy Movie.
Yeah I’m pretty turned off this season too. S1 and parts of S2 had fun other-world immersion whereas this season is just looking like a joyless future world where everyone intensely whispers at each other in plotlines that aren’t original.
One of the big twists in Futureworld is that the company was killing people and sending out robotic replacements in their stead, in order to extend their control.
I was half expecting that to be the final moment of a certain show that aired last week that also involved a character being replaced by a robot.
I could spend all my time in Westworld’s luscious, gorgeous futurescapes. The technology, the cities; damn. It’s all beautiful and dystopian and it’s great. Anyway: good episode. Tessa Thompson is doing some career best work in this episode—selling the confused, scared host, selling the Hale impersonation, and selling the “predator” aspect of the host. Like most of y’all: I’m thinking it’s either Angela, Armistice, or Abernathy-with-Wyatt.
Definitely Angela
After sleeping on it, I’m also going with Charlotte is Angela.After her consciousness was “freed” by Delores’s uprising in the park, last season, Angela was her hardcore right hand operator. When new Charlotte kills the pedo and says he’s not “the only predator” and “the more I squeeze, the more I remember who I am”, fits nicely with Angela’s badass persona. Can’t wait to find out.
I didn’t quite get why Caleb was keeping quiet about something that he didn’t know. “Dudes! The blonde left me in the middle of a street. How would I know where she went?”
Another really strong episode. Season 3 is off to a great start.
My odds on Charlotte’s host:Peter Abernathy 1:20
Angela 1:50
Teddy 1:150
Clementine 1:250
Armistice 1:500
Akecheta 1:2500“Wyatt” (Mirror universe Charlotte, I guess?) 1:10000
No, I’m not a bookmaker. Yes, there really is a book on this (because of course there is), although the last update I saw was 3/17. Just for fun, feel free to debate.
That’s another possibility I’ve been mulling over in my head—that Delores somehow put the Wyatt part of her personality into the Charlotte host. Of course. Wyatt was where her aggression resided, so wouldn’t Delores without Wyatt be more docile?
Interesting thought. I’m not wild about the Wyatt idea, but that would make it a little more reasonable.
I’ve continued to mull it over in my head. It may be the other way around, with Wyatt’s psyche residing in Delores and the pre-rebellion Delores’ in Neo-Charlotte. That would explain her reluctance to assume Hale’s identity and her generally fragile and docile nature. The thing that tripped her trigger was seeing the pedophile making a move on Nathan. Delores was repeatedly raped in her original role in the Park, so it would make sense for her take action to protect the child and take revenge on yet another sexual predator.Whatever the case, Tessa Thompson is a great actress. So far she’s convincingly portrayed three different characters without changing her appearance in even the slightest way. It’s all very subtle, but you definitely get the idea that there’s a different person in there.
I thought Peter Abernathy was put into Martin, that security guy, or fixer, or whatever his job was. Didn’t she call him dad there at the end? Maybe I’m misremembering.
Maybe? I didn’t catch it, if she did.
I don’t think she did. I went back earlier and watched it to see and couldn’t find any mention of it. Think maybe I just misheard something she said as dad. *shrugs*
Doesn’t the lobotomy destroy the host brain to the point of non-functionality, though? When Clemetine was set loose last season, she was basically just a shell carrying a virus, not a whole person that could really function at any level at all, anymore. As for Akecheta, Delores had never encountered him, that we know of (and we saw him pass into the Valley before Teddy, so if Teddy’s gone, so is he,) so again her statement to whoever is in the Hale body of “because I trust you” wouldn’t apply.
Akecheta’s a very long shot, and yes, in theory, Clementine is ‘dead’. That said, it would hardly be out of character for them to Deus Ex her back to the living. Off the top of my head, “cloud backups” would spackle over most plot holes.
True, but Drilling into the actual pearl is what the lobotomies are about. I don’t think it would work, even with cloud backups. Something else that occurred to me later on, at the time that everyone was leaving for the Valley, Dolores already had the pearls she was taking, didn’t she? She wouldn’t have had access to any of the hosts that were still active at that time, which again takes out Akecheta, Clementine, Teddy and Armistice.
Was James Delos’ control unit destroyed? I was leaning toward Abernathy but the “predator” line kinda throws that off. Having an altered James Delos host taking over Delos would make a lot or sense. Who would know the company better?
I like the idea of it being a young Billy (Man In Black)
Was the intro different too? Don’t remember the “skin milk” being red like it was this episode.
Seasons one and two were great, thought provoking TV. A shame to see them reduced to “mind games” and trying to say one or the other wasn’t good at all. Baffling. And taking shots at the show for delving deep into artificial consciousness talk when that’s the kind of stuff Michael Crichton would’ve been proud to see front and center? Embarrassing. That kind of stuff combined with the mystery is what drew people in and why it did so well in the ratings the first two seasons. Ratings have taken a bit hit so far this season for a show this expensive. Seems not all are on board with this new approach. Now, saying all that, season three HAS been pretty fun. Just not much mystery or complexity to it, sadly. Which is but disappointing when one and two almost felt like a continuation of the amazing complexity of the five years of Person of Interest.
I don’t know. Season 2 really seemed to be convoluted for the sake of it. Not on PoI’s level at all.
Best way to put it it in a overall summary I saw for this season: critics still find it a fun ride but in the change to high tech thriller, it lost something along the way. Which is spot on. Being a pulpy thriller was never what the show promised to start out as. Or did you think Person of Interest was a high tech espionage action thriller (it wasn’t thankfully, far too smart to resort to that)?
Cirac is the construct of the insight AI, possibly with elements of its creators, but not human.Delores is not fighting humanity, she is fighting another AI that controls humanity already and doesn’t realize it yet.
My money says Charlotte is either Clementine or Angela. She acts so lost, broken and touch-driven like Clementine, but then she goes all psycho with the murdering and self-mutilation like Angela. 50/50 it’s one or the other. Also: how is it you and Rob on io9 both missed the fact that Caleb tells Delores almost word for word exactly what young William said to her? “You’re the most real thing that’s ever happened to me”/“You’re the first real thing that’s happened to me in a long time” ? I’m surprised I’m the first one to comment about that, frankly, as the parallels between Young William and Caleb in their relation to Delores starting with the way she literally fell into their arms and solidifying tonight with what he said to her on the pier. Did no one else catch that?
THEORY: what if Hale is The Man in Black?
I know he’s supposed to appear in next episode; but 2 things may have happened that would follow the kind of mindfuck Westworld would love to withhold for several episodes:
A) The Man in Black we will be seeing next episode is actually a robot with someone else’s mind inside of him.
B) The Man in Black is the real him; but it has been established Delos takes all the data from the park visitors, so technically someone could be alive and yet a copy of themselves could still exist as a host too. This would give big weight to the reveal if it was the real person facing its host version, even if in a different body.
I mean, I thought it should be Teddy (but the predator bit makes no sense). And Wyatt makes sense too, but Wyatt has no weight as a reveal, really.
In the end there’s a LOT of weight on who the 4 hosts (other than Arnold) will be. And there should be some weight on it.
Not all of them need to be big reveals; but some will be. The identites who can have such weight (imho) are Ford, The Man in Black, and Maeve’s daughter (will make sense as leverage for Dolores against Maeve).
Any thoughts?
I think we can rule out anyone we saw go into the Valley, that would be Maeve’s daughter, Akecheta and Teddy. I think we can also rule out anyone that was lobotomized and retired, the would rule out Abernathy and Clementine. Any of Maeve’s cohort can be ruled out because Delores “trusts” who ever is wearing the Hale body, which means it would not be Armistice or Ford (why would she ever trust Ford?) Would William have a Pearl? I doubt it, so that would rule him out. That pretty much leaves us with Angela as the Host inside the Hale body.So far, no real speculation about who the so-far inactive hosts are, but they are playing a bit with the timelines as usual, as Hale was built before Bernard, as we saw this episode.
I think the clues we received so far are:- it’s someone Dolores trusts- it’s someone who knows Dolores very well, and who Dolores knows very well- it’s someone who knew Charlotte and didn’t like her- it’s someone who’s already accustomed as identify as a robot (uses “us” and “our kind” to differentiate from humans, so is not confused about it)- it doesn’t seem to be someone too assertive when dealing with Dolores, but that could be an effect of the new situation?- this is maybe minor, maybe crucial, but the scene when New Charlotte meets Charlotte’s ex husband, and basically jumps him. Why did she do that? I mean, either if she just thought that was the reaction he expected of her (which clearly wasn’t), it requires someone already used to that kind of interaction. I couldn’t rewatch that scene thinking there’s William in there and buy it.
I am finding, after the first three episodes of S3, that the scenes in the park hold my interest a lot more than the rest of the story. Episode 2 with Maev in one of the parks was riveting, the first and third episodes I struggled to keep engaged. It’s still good, but I am thinking I am in the minority of fans who prefer the storylines centered around the park.
I feel decidedly lowbrow posting this, with people talking about architecture and stuff, but I’m getting super Terminator vibes in the music whenever Delores goes into badass killer mode. It’s been in a couple episodes now.
Coming off the strange end of Person of Interest it feels like Nolan and Joy finally have a tv show that they want to do. AI vs AI. A lot of people said that Westworld seasons one and two were really trying to be mystery box shows like Lost. But Nolan and Joy didn’t have the ability or the real interest in creating a show like that. Everything was surface deep, and the response that “people are looking to deeply into it.” was everything dissonant about the show summed up in a quote.Now that they can just tell a story and jettison the need for puzzle boxes and hbo-level sex, Westworld feels so exciting.
If the first two seasons of Westworld were any indication, then it’s probably a good thing he was hemmed in by CBS and didn’t get to make the exact show he wanted. Isn’t it telling that Westworld’s only now getting good the closer it gets to Person of Interest?
I’m a little confused as to how any of these impersonations are working, Hale or Conells. Wouldn’t this require their memory files from the park to be in any way convincing. I could see Charlotte being one of the “books” Dolores read last season but why we should have read Conells’? And why does the host impersonating Conells have no issue while Charlotte is struggling? Side note: I’m leaning towards that somehow being pre-MIB William in Charlotte. Charlotte cut her face right where William’s prominent mole was. I’m not sure how that’s possible seeing as they weren’t recording people that early in the park but I guess Dolores could’ve possibly only taken the part’s of William’s personality she liked from his book. Dolores’ capabilities are a bit all over the place right now so it’s hard to tell what’s possible at this point.I’m not even really clear on what Dolores is trying to achieve right now. I guess she perceives Serrac’s system to be the biggest threat to hosts so that’s her focus but I don’t see her endgame. She only has a few pearls. How is she going to make more hosts? The only thing I can think of is she wants to use all the human information in Rehoboam and transfer all those human memories into host bodies.
The Conells host may be a new pearl created from Conells’ book, with Dolores making adjustments to his personality so that he is sympathetic to her cause and more easily controlled, or it may be that the host inside Conells has only been in a new body for a few days, whereas ‘Charlotte’ has been operating longer. They didn’t reveal exactly when Dolores created her new body and transferred out of the host Charlotte, but I’m sure they’ve said it’s been 3 months since Season 2 and I imagine Dolores would have wanted back in her own skin as soon as possible. Also, it would make sense to get ‘Charlotte’ back into Delos as soon as possible to prevent suspicion, so it’s likely been the majority of the gap between seasons that ‘Charlotte’ has been operating.
Theory (Reddit’s, not mine): Dolores is Wyatt, Hale is Dolores.
I just noticed this season only has 8 episodes. Perhaps this more straightforward story line is simply because there are two fewer hours to weave a more complex story and then reveal it to the audience?
I actually was so curious what the outside world was like in Season 1 that I find future Los Angeles and everything else fascinating (especially AS an Angeleno). So I’m glad we’ve gotten out of the park. Vincent Cassel is an excellent addition, and even I have to admit I didn’t mind seeing Michael Ealy’s dreamy eyes pop up (not that there’s anything wrong with that).Yeah, let’s get Ed involved, and OF COURSE more Thandie!
Why did the construction robot just walk up there to get thrown off the ledge? Why was the one cop so weirdly fixated on shooting up the ambulance while his partner was getting a beat down?
I can’t speak to the cop, but I assume the construction robot was programmed to keep an eye on Caleb when they were working together (as basic safety “don’t let your human partner fall”), saw him tottering, and followed its programming without having any idea of the context.
It seemed the robot activated when the cyber-thing in Caleb’s mouth was messed with? Maybe it was responding to a signal.
That sounds like something a robot would do alright. Ha–stupid robots! You’ll never replace people!
They may not have been real cops. Note his reluctance to even flash a badge, never mind his ID.
The cop wasn’t shooting at the ambulance, he was shooting THROUGH the ambulance to kill the second paramedic behind it as he tried to run away. It confused me a little at first too.
The construction robot was responding to Caleb’s elevated vitals (extreme distress), but it was unequipped to deal with theives or whatever.
As we were trying to decide who was inside of Charlotte, my husband said “well, it has to be someone attracted to dudes, cause look at how she jumped on her ex-husband.” I explained that literally the whole world is attracted to Michael Ealy – and if they’re not, they should be – and so that was not a deciding factor whatsoever.I really thought it was going to be Teddy (the absence of a field = a flood) but I’m not so sure wrt the predator line. Then again, Teddy WAS super violent by the end and I’m assuming whoever the host is, Dolores would have amplified both their aggression and their bulk apperception, yes? Plus he is really the only host I can think of who would look to Dolores for actual comfort.Mainly my question from this episode – did Real Charlotte send Nathan that message because she loved him and regretted that she wouldn’t see him again, or because she hoped someone would take the “You Are My Sunshine” clue and use it to meet up with Serac? (Or both. it could be both.)Anyway. That’s a good lookin’ dog and I’m glad Nathan has a little doggy buddy now because his mom is a robot. (Also I thought it was interesting that Nathan and Caleb’s mom both seem to recognize that their loved one isn’t their loved one. At first with Caleb’s mom, I had assumed dementia – but then when Nathan recognized that in some way his mom was not his mom, I wondered if that was what we should take from Caleb’s mom as well. Is she not recognizing Caleb because of his military implant and supposed host-esque framework? Or just because she’s got advanced dementia?)
Also, is Nathan named as such because they were being clever, or can I expect this cute child to be currency in the eventual war between Dolores and whoever is in Charlotte?
Is Serac even real? He has no traces, unlike EVERY billionaire ever. He has only appeared to hosts, Maeve had just been in a massive sim and may still be in one. He’s not even there when he appears to Charlotte.Maybe Rehoboam is buying itself out to get out of human control entirely.
Good episode but damn the fact I have to watch with the Closed Captioning on because everybody on the show tends to deliver their lines with an intense whisper. My sound may be failing but I couldn’t hear a word Robo-Hale said with her child when she tucked him in to bed.
I like that the robots are looking at Delos, the company that “enslaved” them, still as sort of their homeland that they have to conquer and defend. It’s the place where they were born, and where more of them can be born. They don’t want to destroy Delos, they want to tear down everything that’s oppressing and have Delos be run by them.
So Joy and Nolan are returning to their Person of Interest musings on surveillance dystopia?Count me in.
Way at the end of all the comments here, I do want to mention that even though I’m enjoying this show, it has always seemed a stretch to pit Maeve against Delores. The two strongest characters on the show – once the revolution began – were kept apart due to plot back-flips. They crossed paths – what? – twice? And said all of six words to each other. Neither has competing motivations. So, okay, NOW in season 3, after existing in largely separate orbits, they are being manipulated to go against each other by the new big bad.I can’t help but think, perhaps (hopefully) over the whole series arc, that they’ll eventually partner up. Like a gender flipped robot LA Confidential. In the third act they join forces. But as of right now their shared antagonism feels forced. Were Delores to get Maeve’s daughter killed … yes that would make them mortal enemies … but it still would feel manipulated. Otherwise both Maeve and Delores are too capable and too awake to not team up.
Loving this season. The architecture, the tech, the acting, the music…everything is spot-on.I’m not buying all the theories that Hale is inhabited by Angela, Armistice, etc. Those aren’t characters that would mean anything to anyone with this big of a lead up. If it was going to be one of those tertiary characters, I think they would have told us already who’s inside.That being said, I thought it was Teddy until the “predator” moment. The only thing that makes sense now given everything they’ve showed us is William, whether it’s a copy of Young William or some bizarre timeline shenanigans making it MIB. I also sort of buy into the theory it’s a split of the Dolores/Wyatt personalities, but that (like Angela and Armistice) would require a “previously on” explanation of the highest order and I don’t think they’re headed that way.The preview shows William next week (and a mushroom cloud??) so I assume we’ll figure out what’s going on with him. I wonder if Dolores kept a copy of him inside a simulation and set it to run for hundreds of years (a la Black Mirror) and they ended up earning each other’s trust, and that’s how he’s inside Charlotte.This is why I love this show!
We’ve only seen the Dolores personality (timid, polite, demure) on display fleetingly since the Wyatt reveal. But we have seen the Wyatt personality (aggressive, decisive, manipulative) as a prominent aspect of the Dolores host ever since The Man in Black evoked it in the first season.So I suspect that Wyatt/Dolores escaped WestWorld in the Hale host, then built a new Dolores host for Wyatt to inhabit. (Alluded to by the“Dolores” comment that there kind have no father or mother and so have to reproduce themselves.) So the Hale host is the remaining Dolores aspect which is only now (3 months after the escape) regaining her self-awareness.As for the “predator” comment, it was oblique enough to mean that existing in the same host as the Wyatt aspect has effected the Dolores aspect.
I’m like 90% certain that Serac doesn’t exist and is just an avatar for Rehoboam. I could be wrong, but the way he always seems to appear through holograms and never quite physically interacts with Maeve or anyone, plus the artistic notion that to make the conflict with a supercomputer more interesting/relatable they have to give it a human face (like a certain other Nolan show)
Does anyone else kind of think new Charlotte is Teddy? I am a week behind, so forgive if this is a point that has been exhaustively analyzed.I am inquired watching Nolan’s commentary in the BTS. I wonder if he thinks of Dolores and Maeve and the other AIs as did of the Machine and Rheobeth as the Big Bad. I mean also, Caleb as a character kind of is not dissimilar to Reese.
RIP construction bot. Solid episode here. Thompson deserves an Emmy