In the opening scenes of “Æsahættr,” we reunite with Ruta Skadi, who wakes up on a random cliffside and overhears a conversation among some cliff ghasts. Apparently able to understand their language, which is subtitled for the audience, Ruta listens as they talk about the stakes of the pending war, and reveal that Asriel’s battle with the Authority—God, if we disperse with the vague language for a second—will fail unless he is able to wield Æsahættr, which is some kind of weapon. She then returns to Serafina Pekkala, who is following her own prophecy about Lyra’s importance to the war ahead.
Even as His Dark Materials has found its footing in its second season, the Witches have remained an issue, and it’s because their function in the story has been reduced to superhuman fighting scenes and exposition that is insistent as opposed to involving. The idea that prophecy is guiding this story is thematically meaningful: in a story about the power religion holds over society, the idea that Lyra and Will are each unknowingly in a cosmic struggle over the fate of the world places each of their choices in sharp relief. We’re reminded throughout this finale that what Will and Lyra are really wrestling with is the process of coming of age, where you’re making these seemingly definitive choices about who you are, and accepting changes that will lock into place your future (in Lyra’s case with Pan settling in one single form). What they don’t realize is that the fate of the very world depends on those choices, and Pullman’s novels are effective at creating a story that never loses the thread of connection between choices made and fates foretold.
Every time the TV adaptation has used the witches to spout exposition about prophecies, though, this thread is lost. To be clear for the non-readers, these pieces of prophecy are also in the books, and so it’s not as though the show is straying from Pullman’s intention. But somehow it’s as though the show has spent too much and too little time on the witches simultaneously: the show has presented them as major characters, but they have failed to actually provide enough depth and purpose for it to feel as though their scenes are saying something about them as people as opposed to simply the broad strokes of the story. We’re spending time seeing the story from their point of view, but it’s failed to amount to much of anything, and the show has actually reduced the role of the witches overall in ways that make their presence even more arbitrary: the two witches who joined Serafina were reduced to cannon fodder for the specters, whereas in the books it’s one of the witches who ends John Parry’s life. For a non-reader audience of the series, it’s hard to imagine the witches registering as anything other than a convenient way to keep repeating what we already know, lest we forget that something larger than Lyra and Will searching for his father is at hand.
I know I’ve complained about the witches plenty this season—and apologize for belaboring the point—but it was frustrating to feel like “Æsahættr” was the show falling on old bad habits, especially since other parts of the finale delivered on the promise that developed throughout the season. The scene between Will and his father is a perfect example of how the story is about the lived reality of these prophecies: John Parry is carrying a message to the bearer of the Subtle Knife without knowing it’s his own son, and when he realizes this is the case the scene takes on an entirely different purpose. John is focused on telling his son that he has an immense responsibility to something bigger than himself, but Will is trying to get his father to understand how this very idea destroyed their family, with “Jopari” waging a meta-war against an unspoken threat while his wife was losing her grip on her sanity, and his son was growing up without a father. The scene has a natural push and pull of the macro- and micro-level parts of the story, and Andrew Scott and Amir Wilson do a great job of highlighting how fraught this is. It’s an emotional reunion, but it’s also a turning point in the story, and the tension between those two functions is the kind of dynamic storytelling that the scenes with the witches are missing.
Essentially, the more involved Will and Lyra are in a given storyline, the stronger it is, and the more we move away from them to stories that we’re told involve them His Dark Materials starts to lose its impact. The one exception to this rule is Marisa Coulter, through sheer will of Ruth Wilson’s magnetism: there was a moment as she’s working through the Golden Monkey’s sudden conscience regarding her plan to use the specters to hunt down Lyra—and rescue her from committing the original sin as the proverbial second-coming of Eve—where I had to remind myself she was acting against nothing. There’s something so intensely physical about Wilson’s performance as she interacts with Coulter’s daemon, mirroring its simian postures and getting on its level in order to reconcile the inner struggle that his hesitation represents. It’s an effective episode for the connection between human and daemon: the Monkey’s growing alarm at Coulter’s relationship to the specters is one side of the coin, but then you have Pan confiding in Will how Lyra values their friendship, only for Lyra to later correct the record and offer that her friendship with Roger hangs over her responsibility to him. Daemons are a manifestation of your inner monologue, but that is always in tension, and I was glad to see that be a central theme of the piece of Coulter’s story as she eventually teleports to the caves to kidnap Lyra with seemingly no resistance (a weird choice given that in the books it is a full-scale attack by the specters that envelops a large host of witches, as opposed to just one).
Yes, admittedly, this is a review that’s returning to a comparison with the books more than others, and there was a comment someone left on an old review over the holidays that effectively asked why I was still focusing on changes the show has made, given that they’ve already happened: it’s not as though, for example, they’re suddenly not going to make Lee Scoresby younger in the show, so why bother continuing to complain about itt? However, depending on the nature of an adaptation choice, there are short-term and long-term consequences. In some cases, changes clearly have short-term benefits but carry little long-term consequences: having Marisa interact with Lee and Mary, for example, does nothing to change any of their respective stories but fleshes out some characterization in productive ways to better sell the idea that she isn’t inherently evil, but is undoubtedly making an evil choice in using the specters as she does here to do what she’s convinced herself is right. However, in other cases, it is immediately clear that whatever short-term benefits exist for a change from the books, there is a long-term consequences that is hanging over the show, a ball waiting to drop. And this is, indeed, the case with Young Lee Scoresby, who dies fending off the Magisterium to allow John Parry to find the bearer of the knife, with the belief that it will serve to protect Lyra Belacqua.
Put simply, no matter how many times the show has Lee tell us that he sees Lyra as a daughter, it just doesn’t actually make sense for a younger version of this character to devote his entire life to her cause. It’s not a question of Lin-Manuel Miranda not selling dialogue that would have otherwise managed this: the problem here has always been that Lee’s sacrifice is framed in the books as an alternative to his retirement, and replacing that with “giving up decades of your life solely because you felt paternally toward this girl and a witch said she was important” is a huge burden for the story to carry. As with the witches, Lee told us often that he felt like Lyra was a daughter to him, but a “daddy issues” backstory isn’t going to turn that into real pathos, especially not when the contrast with the books is fresh at mind. I acknowledge that this is one case where not having read the books means that the scene—which was pretty much straight out of the book otherwise, and well-realized with Hester and Lee’s increasingly emotional interactions—might well have played very effectively, but I would argue the show never found a way to resolve the problem their adaptation choice created. Whereas in the books Lee’s death registered as the end of his life and his story, here it feels more like Lee has concluded his part in this story, which goes back to the witches and the sense that too many of the show’s characters exist to serve the narrative instead of their story becoming integrated into it.
That process of integration was, with Will, the second season of His Dark Materials’ greatest accomplishment: I was unsure of whether there would be long-term damage done by making the short-term decision to introduce Will in the first season instead of in the opening of the second, but in the end the show understood what needed to be done in order to leverage the benefits of the choice to offset what was lost. And if there is any part of this show that needs to be in solid shape heading into the third and final season—which was formally announced last week—it is Lyra and Will’s relationship, and thus I leave the second season more confident in the show than I was after the first. I may struggle with some of Jack Thorne’s choices as showrunner, but his priorities do seem to be in order, and that will carry a lot of weight as the story marches to its conclusion.
But watching “Æsahættr,” I nonetheless felt like I did back during the first season, as though the disparate parts of the show just weren’t coming together. The show has Mary Malone still wandering through the mountain reading her I Ching, instead of sending her through to the next stage in her journey. There’s a glimpse of the Cardinal and the Magisterium in the final montage, but the season gave us no reason to particularly care about that story, and its presence there felt unearned. And while I know that COVID-19 robbed us of a standalone Asriel episode that would have better set up his speech to the Angels, it still felt like it was coming from a different show, and that the montage was insisting these were integrated narratives when the season itself had never managed this. Aside from my aforementioned issues with the witches, I’d defend most of His Dark Materials’ narrative threads on an individual level, but after showing glimmers of hope that it would start to coalesce into something transcendent in the middle of this season, this finale settles back into feeling like a well-made missed opportunity.
Stray observations
- In case you missed it, they snuck in a post-credits scene featuring Roger, in a shadowy space, calling out to Lyra. The implications of this are pretty vague, although book readers know what they’re pointing to in a way non-readers really couldn’t figure out at this point.
- HBO wanted me to keep McAvoy’s appearance a secret (they filmed it during the pandemic to rescue at least some of the standalone episode), which is admittedly a little tough given it already aired in the UK, but I do admit that I was also just presuming we’d see him, and so when he didn’t show up in the credits I just kind of presumed there would be a surprise cameo as there was.
- I realize that it may have been intended to be part of the standalone episode, but it was confusing to be unclear when we first see Ruta Skadi with the cliff ghasts whether this was before or after she caught up with the angels and found Asriel. The lack of context for that seems like it would have been even more confusing for non-readers.
- So they had Mary run into the girls from the city so that she could…escort them into the mountains to reunite with their families? I’m puzzled over this. It’s clear they wanted Mary to be a part of these episodes instead of just transitioning her to her final destination, but other than the glimpse of the angel protecting her from the Specters it didn’t add up to anything.
- The show has been so good about showing us how transfixing Coulter can be, so it was weird that they reframed her attack on the witch and her extrication of the “Eve” name from the books, where the witch is too taken with her to attack as she should. Having the witch instead naively treat her as an innocent is far less interesting.
- Red Panda Pan Update: Honestly, not enough Red Panda Pan, but note that Pan was in Red Panda form when he was talking about how he will eventually stop changing form, so THE DREAM IS ALIVE.
- I wish they would have shown us Lee’s last stand as a single scene, instead of cross-cutting it with other stories: I realize that it’s inevitable when adapting a story with focused chapters that you’re going to need to cut things against one another to maintain temporality, but they would have gotten more mileage out of the scene if we had seen it start to finish in real time.
- On that note, it’s a little weird that they did nothing to explain what exactly Serafina was doing to help Lee: it’s confusing that she abandoned Lyra even after she knew he was dead, and so it seemed like some dialogue with her daemon to discuss what her ritual was designed to do might have helped clarify why that wasn’t a really dumb call on her part.
- I get why it would have been difficult to set up the spurned lover setup to the witch murdering Jopari, but it was still disheartening to see a random Magisterium general play the role instead, even if it did give us a nice “daemon avenging human by killing murderer’s daemon, and thus murderer” moment.
- I allude to this above, but it’s so strange that the show gave no indication how Coulter went from whispering in Lyra’s ear to having her sleeping in a trunk on a steamboat. How much time passed? How did we get from Point A to Point B? Lots of questions with no answers.
- Before I get to some discussion of the implications of this finale for the third book (with probably some more explicit spoilers than usual, but I’ll try to keep it vague), I want to thank everyone for reading: I regret in a way that this finale review ended up spending as much time as it did rehashing some old book/show discussions that I hoped this season would move past, but I can only be honest about my response to the show, and as always encourage you to use the comments to explore your own responses in relation to mine and to each other. More than with a typical show, adaptations are built to create divergent responses, and while we’re only doing one review now I’ve been really pleased to see those perspectives come together in the comments, and so thank you all for that. We’ll hopefully be back sometime in 2021/2022 to see how exactly the rest of this story is going to fit into eight more episodes.
Through The Amber Spyglass (Spoilers for the Remainder of the Story)
Based on the fact that the show announced casting for the two angels ahead of the season’s debut, we can be fairly confident in saying that there was a time when this was not the ending of the second season of His Dark Materials.
Now, it’s possible that we would have seen Baruch and Balthamos in the Asriel standalone episode, which would have explained their casting, but part of me wonders if there was a point where they intended to bring us further into the story. It does seem strange that we don’t actually see Will discover Lyra’s absence despite the fact she’s allegedly on a steamboat already, and so one wonders if that scene was shot and then whether due to the pandemic or due to a shift in their storytelling plans, they went in another direction.
The related question, though, is how the show intends to deal with the fact that Lyra and Will are going to look very different when the show returns, with both actors having aged considerably since they filmed the second season last summer. Presuming the show won’t be in production until Spring 2021 at the earliest, I’m curious if part of how they’ve shifted the ending is building in a more significant time jump tied to Lyra’s captivity than what you have in the books. I would speculate that part of why they might have abandoned what they’d shot with Will and the angels was in order to drop us back into the narrative with Will having been searching through different worlds for Lyra for a year or more, in line with the real-world timeline.
117 Comments
I get what you are saying about a younger Lee but while I knew Will’s dad wouldn’t be around for long, there was an idea that they could have had someone around who was actually a good parental figure who was of an age of their parents. Like, once this story is over and if Lyra and Will are still teens. But yeah it was too bad they couldn’t have cut in Will’s discovery of Lyra being gone which also makes it curious how Seraphina didn’t make it back in time to at least meet up with him. Like I almost think there was that scene where Will just stormed off saying he can find her better. And shouldn’t have picked up a certain feline by now?
Thanks for the reminder about the pandemic cutting production of an episode short. I don’t envy shows having to make these choices, and imagine a lot of gritting of teeth and mumbling ruefully in the show’s editing bay figuring out how to wrap this season up.
The missing episode didn’t affect the rest of the story, though (otherwise they wouldn’t have cut it, they would just have delayed production). It was a standalone about Asriel’s back story.
Steamboat?! I thought she wound up on some Magisterium airship going off to be executed.A bunch of people I barely know dying. The hippy scientist climbing every mountain. The boy with the knife as selfish and self-centered as ever. And Lyra literally being fridged. What a mess. If not for seeing Ruth Wilson every week I’d give up entirely.
The Cardinal is on the airship. Coulter and Lyra are on the steamboat.
Hey Myles. I like your reviews, but I miss a voice able to ruminate on the show as a TV show, as opposed to an adaptation. What if, for season 3, you guys did dialogue reviews, with a non-reader leading the narrative and you acting as the voice of inner knowledge – so basically, as their daemon!
“The boy with the knife as selfish and self-centered as ever.”So much. I remember him being boring in the book, but I actively despise his whiny ass in the show.
– Lyra, have we found my father yet?– Not yet.– What about now?– Still no.– Are you sure? Ask the alethiometer!
OK, then. I’m gonna go pout for a while.
Ditto. Ruth Wilson!
This “fridging” you speak of… Lyra’s not dead, so it can’t really be that. It’s also not a shortcut to motivate the main character, since she is the main character. And there is no actual fridge. Sorry, but this statement took me on a journey. There’s literally nothing literal about it.
I just watched for the red panda.
I hope they pull a “Euphoria” and plop in a special episode between now and next season that might explain some of what was missed here.So, even with non-book readers there is a subset who first had Lee in their heads as played by Sam Elliot in the movie from a decade ago – which was perfect casting. Here, I mean, wasn’t Miranda instrumental in getting the show produced? Lee’s last stand was indeed a good scene. Maybe Season One needed a backstory or flashback scene of Lee with a brother and a niece tragically taken … or some cultural signifier that at age 40 he’s pretty long-in-the-tooth for people in his community. (All the kids from his high school class have daughter’s Lyra’s age! Dang it! Where have all the good years gone?)Also, all season I was kept on the edge of my seat as to when Marisa would finally kill her monkey (and live, no doubt). Kill your monkey Marisa, quit teasing us!
Lol man, she went all Mommie Dearest on that poor monkey. And I was kinda wondering what would happen if her monkey perished. There has to be something more to Marisa that she can be apart from her daemon for long periods of time AND to be able to control the spectres.
Didn’t she basically say she’s a witch who grew up outside of their culture? (I believe in the books it’s never explained how she does the things she does).
Haven’t read the prequel books, but as far as I can tell the most you get from the main series is that she’s like, insanely strong-willed. I don’t think she can go as far apart from her daemon as a witch, just more than the average person.
Well, to be fair, Miranda is the correct age to be Dafne Keen’s father. Sam Elliott, even in 2007, would be old enough to be her grandfather. Her actual dad (who plays the Cardinal) is a bit older than Miranda but could easily pass for his contemporary.
Kumagoro, but Lin-Manuel Miranda doesn’t come off as that old, at all. He always seems closer to 28 or 29 than 40 to me, especially here.
This is fair. I also suspect that Miranda would go down easier in an S1 & S2 binge.
So…I’ve read the books, my partner had not. Episode ended, and I commented about how I felt the reveal of Asriel’s plot being to kill god was a letdown* (finally saying it out loud…from a CliffGhast? really??) and his response was basically “wait, what??”He thought “the Authority” mean the Magisterium. I’m wondering if other non-book folks are getting tripped up by that. It was not clear to him that Authority = God in this show.*I have been annoyed about this ALL SEASON. Just say it. We find it out very early in book 2, so why wait until today to say outright what Asriel is trying to do?? It’s an exciting escalation in the books, and instead, here, the refusal to say it out loud just had them cut some actually interesting exposition/stuff for characters to do. (IE – if the witches know early on what he’s doing, their actions would make more sense….& they cut a huge chunk of Mary’s conversation with the Angels in the Cave to avoid revealing info about the War & Asriel’s goal…which also would’ve helped give her more interesting stuff to do…)
It’s particularly weird that Will’s dad says “The Authority” to his son, rather than “God”, a term he’d know his son would be familiar with unlike the term from Lyra’s world which he’d have little reason to assume Will would know. Show shying away a bit from the theological implications, perhaps?
Yeah that was really clunky. As was everyone using the word Æsahættr constantly with no reference to the fact that it means ‘god killer’ – why bother making the actors flub the pronunciation if it’s just going to be a nonsense word?
I’m totally baffled by the number of people who have tried to adapt this series who don’t seem to like them that much..
Wait, what? seconded. If you held a gun to my head I’d have said the Magisterium and Authority were the same thing. Maybe I need to finally read these books before next season. The show isn’t capturing how cool everybody says they are.
I think in the books it’s much clearer just because of how much The Authority is spoken about in different contexts.
They are very good. It’ll fill the time we’ll have to wait for season three.
It was not clear for me too, but thanks for the explanation.
Yeah my boyfriend (non-book reader) said the exact same thing. They haven’t said the word ‘church’ or ‘God’ once in either season I think – they’re definitely trying to avoid a backlash. Which again begs the question: If you’re afraid of the central premise of the source material, why make the show?
Netflix made a show wherin the CIA are investigating a figure who may or may not actually be Jesus – I think the BBC/HBO could probably justify using the word god to clear up an essential plot point…
I figured that after Preacher, everything else would be considered small potatoes, lol… but they are still selling this to a predominately Christian audience in the U.S., so hedging a bit is probably to be expected.
“I have been annoyed about this ALL SEASON. Just say it. We find it out very early in book 2, so why wait until today to say outright what Asriel is trying to do?”I honestly don’t know. Similarly, the “Utopia” remake has the villain admit the evil(/good?) plan in the final episode while the Dennis Kelly series revealed it in the middle of the first season.It’s frustrating that these subsequent writers are less interested in the moral consequences of the story than they are in SHOCKING developments. I am not against a good cliffhanger, but it should be in service of the story and not the thing in and of itself.
I thought the Authority was some kind of crazy government that controls all the worlds or something, glad you confirmed what it was.
and his response was basically “wait, what??”I’m sure this comes off as crass to both your partner and those on this thread who are confused, but…. coooommmmmmeeeeeeee onnnnnnnnn. Are you kidding me? I haven’t read the books either (which makes these reviews, and this one in particular, so galling to read).
The Authority is so CLEARLY “God,” and the Magisterium has been framed as a Theocracy/Vatican/Organized religion stand-in since like the first shot of the series. Like down to the creepy, pedophile-y guys running the place and their intentionally gross daemons.
The theme of a battle between regimented, religious subjegation vs. “free thought” this season has been so frying-pan-to-the-face obvious that I have to keep reminding myself that this is a YA series as to not be frustrated by the incredibly unsubtle writing that comes off like Libertarian fanfic. It’s like Hunger Games and its “Ancient Roman History for Idiots.” Clever for teenagers, a little pedantic (but still fun) for adults. And this is fun, too. But so on the nose. So, so, so on the nose.
Sorry to come off as “that asshole” but goodness. How much pop culture do you NOT consume to be unable to see these tropes a million miles away?
One other slight bone to pick with this review (the rest of the reviewer’s problems written off to expectations of a book interfering with watching the show… which they admit, to be fair): I wouldn’t like Lee to be older in this series. Lyra’s parents are James McAvoy and Ruth Wilson. Hardly senior citizens. Not having read the book, I see nothing wrong with Miranda’s take on the Han Solo-type. Lee had his Freudian session during torture, connected with familial stirrings and found himself setting aside cynicism for something bigger than himself (and, apparently, martyred. Gosh, I wonder how that fits into the themes of the story… eye roll). Having Lee be played by a Clancy Brown-type (while cool) would’ve been totally different and not really worth the change, imo. So let it go.
Again, sorry. This review got under my skin for some reason. Don’t love the spoilers (haven’t caught it yet… my fault, not yours). And don’t love that Lin Manuel AND Andrew Scott apparently get offed in the finale. If it wasn’t for Ruth Wilson (rawwwllll with that accent) and the production design, I’d probably be out. Bummer I’ll have to try and fire up for season 3 when it finally hits in… I don’t know… 2024?
I am new to commenting on kinja (having only done 1-3 times before, total) and accidentally ‘dismissed’ your reply when attempting to minimize it while scrolling through the thread. I apologize (and can’t figure out how to undo it!).That said, my partner watches a lot of shows, and we generally like to talk through plots and figure out where they’re going (and predicted some of the major twists in Westworld early on), but obviously can’t do that for this show because I *know* the answers. As you noted, a LOT of non-readers are replying to my original comment who did not understand. I think it has been poor world-building from the showrunners that many people clearly did not pick up on that The Authority = God (as opposed to the church, or the magisterium, or any other large religious force). Have we ever seen anyone pray and address The Authority in their prayers, in this show? Another part of this is because not much fiction – let alone in TV, in my experience! – is willing to go this far in challenging religion. And as I hinted at above (to avoid spoilers for non-readers), they cut a LOT this season that explains WHY this is all happening, whose side different factions are on and why, etc. But again – they cut it, even though it’s in the book, in order to avoid outright saying it until the finale. I do think you’re too quick to dismiss “YA” fiction. A) Pullman didn’t write the series to target a YA audience, B) something being YA doesn’t mean it’s inherently dumbed down. Any dumbing down you’re seeing – in production design, in daemon choices, etc – is the choice of the showrunners, in my opinion. One of the reasons I love this book series is because when I read the first book – when I was Lyra’s age – I missed a lot of the subtlety that clues older readers in on potential plot points, because it’s from Lyra’s POV and SHE doesn’t get it. Re-reading as an adult, there was a lot more hinted-at nuance that Lyra shrugs off, that as an older reader you can pick up on and understand.
I do think you’re too quick to dismiss “YA” fiction.Yeah. It sounds like I’m dismissing it. The whole post was a little too snarky. I think there’s a lot of good YA, much of it that doesn’t deserve that kind of diminutive. (Then again, I think that’s because so much of “adult” lit has been sort of dumbed down over the last 50 years, but that’s a different conversation).
I think it’s more of a criticism of YA writers (or at least those writers whose works end up classified as YA) who decide that they’re going to introduce grown-up literary themes, history or tropes to younger readers in a way that comes off as “oh so clever.”
Not to say that being too clever by half isn’t equally abundant in “adult” writers, it totally is (I see you, Gillian Flynn…). It just usually feels like a crutch used instead of telling a good story.
Hunger Games on the page, I felt like, does that. But it worked (or was downplayed in the context of a movie. So where on the page the idea of the Authority as a stand-in for god might feel a little on-the-nose if it wasn’t a YA novel (where things are a little more on-the-nose), I feel like it definitely does when adapted to the screen where you have production design, costumes, actors really selling the “religious autocracy” angle.
I suspect the BBC and HBO are really truly hoping if they don’t say “God” (or didn’t until the end of this episode), then the Religious Right in America won’t notice.
I kind of wonder if the production didn’t have two versions of the reveal of Asriel’s full plans, and he would’ve continued to say “The Authority” if Trump had been re-elected? Since he wasn’t, they felt safe to say, “In your face, you Stone Age Fairytale Bigots!”I have no idea if this is so or not, but it fits the refusal to mention “God” earlier…
I’m not sure they ever say “God” in the books – so I see the failing of people understanding God=Authority to be an issue the show has, because in the books it’s just…..way more clear. Immediately.
I seem to remember it’s clearly explained that The Authority is the Abrahamic God in the books…?
this whole thread is wild. how could the magisterium be more like the church, both aesthetically and in their manner of speaking and behaving? with character saying things like “heresy!” and “pray to the authority”… isn’t it obvious? :/ I have friends who haven’t read the books and love the show and get what is being alluded to…
But is it explained before The Amber Spyglass?
I very clearly remember early book 2 being “holy shit, Asriel wants to KILL GOD?!? how is THAT going to work??” and then the rest of book 2 is showing us the pieces falling into place.
I think it’s made explicitly clear but I don’t remember the word “God” ever being said?
Didn’t Lord Asriel openly say at the end of The Golden Compass that the reason for all this was to kill God? And he used “God”, not “The Authority”….
I’d have to go back and check tbh – I didn’t think so but it’s been over a year since I read the books, and I borrowed them from the library so checking again isn’t an easy task rn.
Yeah, I don’t remember the books talking about “God” or “the church” either. It’s “The Authority” and “the Magisterium”. You’re supposed to make the connections on your own.
Yep. I’m in the “Wait, what?” camp also. Although I’m not a book reader, I am aware of this from the stories, and have been anxious how they would do it in-show. 2 seasons over and I’m like, what was the big deal? Where’s the God stuff? This fantasy story is harmless. Or maybe I misunderstood, the conversations around the books, and the themes were figurative, not literal.
In any case. the connection in no way comes through, in the series and this is clearly by design. If I were familiar with the source material, I’d be furious. But as a casual, I’m fine, if a little shocked right now that this is what characters have been talking about the whole time, lol. If you were to quiz me-
For Final Jeopardy: The Authority in His Dark Materials
Me: “What is, The Magisterium, Alex.”Your wager?Me: “Everything”
I thought it was pretty clear, but I also tend to focus on the details of a show more than the bigger picture… Certainly in this episode, they were more explicit about the war being against ‘The Authority and all those who do evil deeds in it’s name’, which came across as ‘God and his Priests’ to me.That said, I wouldn’t be surprised if they are trying to downplay the Christian specific aspects of ‘The Authority’… but then they openly call Lyra ‘Eve’, which pretty concretely ties it to Abrahamic religions.
I mean all things considered:Lyra is a “good” character (it seems) so having her fill a biblical role is seemingly minimally controversial. But I could see where controversy would arise if halfway through a comparatively youth-targeted HBO show they outright say “get in boys, we are killing God!”.It does stem from seemingly adapting a young adult novel that is meant ot be “thought provoking” to like 15 year olds into a show that is probably viewed by a broader audience (and potentially more mature given HBOs recent hits were more mature focused). Supposedly deep concepts come off as shallow, but they have to avoid explicitly saying it or it screws with the established source material. The other aspects of the show just need to be good enough to plow through it.
I think it’s interesting that this concept is ‘thought provoking’ to 15 year old’s, but taboo to an older audience. That said, I was probably 14 when I decided that I no longer believed in God and that the entire concept was absurd and exploitative… so I don’t really understand the idea of creating a series that is explicitly trying to tear that system down, while also being afraid of offending it.As for book to screen adaptations, I agree that they generally end up shallow and soft (most often)… but I think that has more to do with limitations of time, and directors having a hard time translating the inner monologues to actual dialogue without it feeling like clumsy exposition.
(I have not read the source/ original books)I think what I meant to suggest was not so much that it was taboo (though it probably is/was).
Just that a certain bulk of the story is seemingly created to allow time for young readers to put pieces together for themselves, to map the story to their own experiences and the real world, and to start developing thoughts and ideas about things that just a few years ago were maybe to complex for you to think about.But older audiences don’t necessarily need that time, so things seem to progress slowly. Most adults interested in this show would/will quickly put together: Magisterium=(catholic)Church, Daemons = inner monologue/subconcious, ect ect. And by and large many of them will already have pretty solid views on these, and don’t really need a lot of time to ponder on these or the “hint hint – nudge nudge” scenes created to point these things out. An adult viewers thoughts on the show probably stem from their already formed views on the topics (mainly religion). If you are very much a church person, this may not be the show for you; and vice versa.
Also like, yeah (at least in the 90’s) you had to veil anti-religion views in YA stuff, lest there be a panic and boycott by parents and such. I remember there being an uproar to Harry Potter and such. Also gives a bit of edgy-ness teens crave.
It’s such a bummer that this show is on HBO (which would let them get away with whatever, basically) and to have them softball all the religion stuff so badly.
I’m not a book reader, but I had in mind that they were talking about God. Someone in one of these episodes alluded to that; that the magisterium was just one of the outlets of His power.
As a non-book reader, it was confusing. It still not even established well in my mind that “The Authority” is even a extant thing that can be killed, save the “existence” of angels. Up to this point, it was entirely possible the authority didn’t even exist and was a construct of the Magisterium itself (separate from the angels).
Person who I was watching it with (who admittedly grew up in a non US/Western culture so certain themes don’t have any resonance with them) seems fairly lost.
Super nervous for how they handle the next part of Mary’s journey – gods I hope HBO have opened their wallets – looking forward to the reviews!
Ruth Wison was rocking her Indiana Jones outfit. A terrific performance surrounded by a banal show. I thought during the ep that the series could have been radically reconceptualized by making Coulter the protagonist, so compelling is her role and performance. Lyra could have been the holy figure we sometimes see while the story was about a very conflicted disciple. Or something. Coulter’s writing is better than any other character’s. Certainly just bald, lazy exposition of stuff we already know needs to die. I heard Gillian Flynn say, about her own TV script work, that slavish adaptation wasn’t interesting to her. Thought of that with Lee’s final scene. What if he didn’t die? Shake the thing up and get creative, showrunners.I remember the third book being bolder and weirder than the first two. That doesn’t bode well given the show is mostly perfectly mediocre and trite. I too would like to see the attack on Christianity aspects be made more explicit, especially for the American market. It’s pretty annoying our pop culture doesn’t go after Christianity, when real life and society provide very valid reasons to do so.
I too would like to see the attack on Christianity aspects be made more explicit, especially for the American market. It’s pretty annoying our pop culture doesn’t go after Christianity, when real life and society provide very valid reasons to do so.Having not read them, I’ve sort of assumed that the books would go at this a little harder (or a little less… like in a C.S. Lewis-style loving criticism kind of way?).
But, like, two things:
1. It’s a YA series. How hard are they going to go? If they up it too much people complain that it was taking something normal and making it a platform from which “godless Hollywood” would preach.
2. ANYTHING that went at Christianity in any meaningful way would be castigated as a platform from which “godless Hollywood” would preach.
3 (Yes, three. No one expects the Spanish Inquisition). HBO just wants something that looks and feels like a tamer version of a GOT-style epic. And this scratches a little of that itch.
Various non-fundamentalist Christian groups and media outlets have literally called for Pullman’s books to be burned in a bonfire. That’s how hard he strikes against religion.
Fundies, or non-Fundies, Kumargoro? I’m not sure if your point is that the books are so anti-Organized Religion that even bland mainstream Protestants like the Methodists are planning witchhunts….
Hmmm. That’s interesting, especially for a YA series. I’ll admit to being
I literally knew nothing about the books other than the fact that The Golden Compass movie adaptation looked like a cheap coattail rider trying to balance The Hunger Games and Harry Potter, and it felt forgettable when I saw it at a press screening way back when. I remembered the Alethiometer and the bear and Nicole Kidman. That was about it. Thought it was another Percy Jackson (which… meh. Not great).
I decided to give the HBO series a chance, admittedly with a little shame, on the inclusion of Lin Manuel Miranda. That and HBO’s willingness to let series of adaptations run a course. I’ve enjoyed the show more than I thought I would, despite a lot of flaws.
I was already planning on picking up the third book since who knows when we’ll see Season 3. But now that I know that books come at things much harder, I might just grab the box set.
For an adapted series, I’d think that would be a success, even if the books aren’t faithfully served on the screen (something I’d sometimes get upset about, but never really carry as grudges over, when it’s a property I’m passionate about).
Eh…. those same groups used to scream for the burning of Harry Potter books, so you don’t have to do that much to rile them up.
We’re not talking bigot groups and associations here. We’re talking official church press organs that usually take stuff like The Da Vinci Code with a laugh. The Catholic Herald wrote that “[by] co-opting Catholic terminology and playing with Judaeo-Christian theological concepts, Pullman is effectively removing, among a mass audience of a highly impressionable age, some of the building blocks for future evangelisation.”Pullman has been saluted as a boon for atheism and freedom of thought by liberal media. Rowling, not so much.
I’ve sort of assumed that the books would go at this a little harder (or a little less… like in a C.S. Lewis-style loving criticism kind of way?). It’s harder, a lot harder. In this series Pullman sees himself as the anti-C.S. Lewis, attacking religious hypocrisy like Graham Chapman’s Lapsed Atheist with a Rocket Launcher, and doing his level best to piss off The Archbishop of Canterbury. The two have engaged in an running battle in UK Newspapers, television and online ever since the series was first published in the late Nineties. At this point I can’t decide if the Archbishop really still thinks Pullman’s a threat to the Bleedin’ CofE, or if he just likes all the free publicity the Church gets when he calls out Pullman….
Who exactly is pissed off by Pullman? Rowan Williams seems more than ok with it, if not even a fan in his own way from what I’ve read.
I don’t know about that….
From that very article: “The Good Man Jesus and the Scoundrel Christ was recently reviewed in the Guardian by the Archbishop of Canterbury, Rowan Williams, a great supporter of Pullman. “I think he was generous,” Pullman says. “Much more generous than might have been expected, but he is a good and kindly man.”
Williams also reviewed the stage production: “a near-miraculous triumph. It may well end up with Brook’s Midsummer Night’s Dream or Nicholas Nickleby as one of those theatrical experiences that justifies the whole enterprise of live theatre in our day.”
Wow, that really surprises me. I had heard that Pullman and The Archbishop of Canterbury were in a death feud over HIS DARK MATERIALS books — of course, that was back in the 1990s, when it wasn’t exactly easy to get copies of THE GUARDIAN in the US!
Now I wonder if I hadn’t been fed a PR angle — in the way that MGM kept ginning up a nonexistent “feud” between Fred Astaire and Gene Kelly, who were actually admirers of each other’s work and friends off-camera. (It was Astaire who talked to Kelly about Debbie Reynolds, and convinced both of them not to give up on each other during dance rehearsals for Singin’ in the Rain….)
I too would like to see the attack on Christianity aspects be made more explicitFor real. At it stands, we’re getting a better anti-Christian sentiment from Chilling Adventures of Sabrina.
I heard Gillian Flynn say, about her own TV script work, that slavish adaptation wasn’t interesting to her. Wish she had the writing chops to back that statement up, because her adaptation of Utopia was truly godawful. She commited every possible sin at the same time: she misunderstood the aesthetics and atmosphere, she slavishly adapted story beats yet used very different characters for them, then deviated in truly pointless ways in the side stuff, ending up with a show that captured none of the original’s charm and managed to conjure nothing unique.
It’s pretty annoying our pop culture doesn’t go after Christianity, when real life and society provide very valid reasons to do so.
Yikes. I don’t go around needing more religious persecution of any kind in my media (Besides I’d argue with the ‘sinister minister’ trope, pop culture takes their shots plenty) but I do agree with you about Ruth Wilson.
TBH I grew up polytheistic, didn’t know much about Christianity until late high school/college, I didn’t even realize the books were meant to be a direct attack on Christianity rather than an interesting what-if. As an adult it’s a lot more obvious to me, but IDK that I’m convinced the series needs to go after Christianity rather than religious authoritarianism more generally.
To complete this picture, as someone who grew up in a relatively but not super religious Christian family and was reading the books in real time (ages 10-13), it was definitely clear that the book was commenting on the Catholic church and playing with the Adam/Eve myth by the second book, but it wasn’t clear until the third book (which came out when I was 13) that the series was thematically anti-theistic in ways that were a bit confronting at first but that I ultimately found richly rewarding (and eventually helped me make peace with my own budding atheism/agnosticism).It’s a bit ironic, because the series was actually introduced to me by a friend in Vacation Bible School with a very strict, overbearing mother and we ended up falling out because she joined a super fundamentalist school where girls couldn’t wear pants. I always wondered if she was allowed to read to third book and if so what she made of it. Thank God (ha) my mother never found out what they were actually about.
Swapping out the spurned witch lover for some random Magisterium mook… arghhh, go soak your head, Jack Thorne, you oaf. Such a shocking and wild moment from the book, perfectly epitomizing the capriciousness of adults and relationships just as Will is developing similar feelings of his own, and it gets thrown away for nothing? Ughhhh.
Agreed. He’s not written the witches with enough depth to sustain there being any moral duality within them – at least this was sort of an acknowledgement of that.
I will lap up every minute of this series because I love the books so much. However, Jack Thorne’s approach to the whole thing has been fundamentally cowardly. The writing breaks the ‘show don’t tell’ rule over and over again because it doesn’t trust the audience to understand that Lyra and Will are important, and because they didn’t want to spend the money showing daemons properly in S1. The book series is great in part because it’s so un-patronising – it trusts that kids may read it and just enjoy the adventure, but that there’s more there under the surface if you want to find it. Lyra and Will are not written in the books to be especially likeable, but you grow to love them because of their morals and actions. The TV series went out of its way to make them quirky and mild-mannered, which is fine, I guess, but I wish they’d just get out of the actors’ way because they’re both very good.
Instead, the TV series tries to make everything super explicit except the Church angle: notice how the imagery used is skewing less and less ecclesiastical and more and more Nazi. That’s not to draw paralells between the church and the Third Reich, but to make it clear the church in Lyra’s world is not our own church.
No red robes for the cardinal, just a series of increasingly militaristic black uniforms. No showing of the church’s actions out in the world. No actual discussion of god or prayer or anything that might draw parallels with the actual church as we know it in reality. No use of the words ‘church’, ‘god’, or ‘Jesus’ even if it makes the plot super confusing.
Nope, no parallels here folks, this church is full of Really Bad Guys, nothing like our church…
Wow, this is perfectly stated.
I loved the scene with Will and his father, it was heartbreaking. But getting ahead of that a little, I’m so tired of the “Oh, if I hadn’t abandoned you/was abusive to you/was distant from you then you wouldn’t have turned out so awesome! You see, it was a parenting tactic this whole time!” line so often employed in media… and in real life too. Hey, if you think I’m awesome after all that, imagine how good I might be if I had love and support!I find that I might be as perfectly prepared as I can be for this show. I read through the book series once, but it was a long time ago. Although some parts left a lasting impression, some things I’ve definitely forgotten. I find myself both able to keep up with some of the allusions and hints as to where the story’s headed, while also still being surprised by things.
I find it deeply unfair to equal John’s story to one of abandonment. It’s okay and realistic from Will’s point of view to feel that way (the way a young person would also feel “betrayed” if a parent died), but John left home simply to do his job, ended up dimensionally misplaced, and then spent the rest of his life trying to find a way to get back to his family.
I’m not saying that because I don’t understand the circumstances, I’m saying it because that’s what John was basically saying in the episode. When Will confronts him with how hard his absence was John counters by saying “and look how brave you turned out!” In a way he’s crediting his actions for Will’s character. While their situation was complicated, Will (and his mom too), are the the two who shaped him into being the strong and brave person he is. Being hurt deeply by someone (however unintentional) and pushing past it can inform the person you grow into, but any strength or wisdom that comes from it should be credited to the individual, not anyone else.
I hated what they did with that scene. The book ends version ends on an Empire Strikes Back level down note, with Lee Scoresby dead, most of the witches dead, Lyra kidnapped, and Will discovering the man speaking to him about the Knife is his father about 3 seconds before a witch puts an arrow in the guy’s heart.
I understand that TV shows need to take narrative shortcuts for time and clarity, but that deviation from the book was entirely unnecessary and was in fact a less interesting ending than how it was played in the books. Not only that, but it fucks up the emotional resonance of what happens in Book 3, when [SPOILERS] Will finally gets a chance to have a heart to heart with his father’s ghost.
I don’t understand why you would buy the rights to a massively popular book only to hack up the story to the point where it’s nigh unrecognizable to the fans wanting to watch it.
Will discovering the man speaking to him about the Knife is his father about 3 seconds before a witch puts an arrow in the guy’s heart.YEP! YEP! I recently had gone on a wikipedia-hole and had the name of that witch in my mind (it’s Juta), and when I realized the witches with Serafina were named “Lena” and “Reina” I grumbled to my partner – “I think they’re about to change something that seems minor but really bothers me”. AND – it would have given the witches more depth! Every deviation they’ve made from book-witches has bothered me because it’s only serving to make the witches boring & annoying plot devices. :/
I don’t understand why you would buy the rights to a massively popular book only to hack up the story to the point where it’s nigh unrecognizable to the fans wanting to watch it. Exactly this. Just write a new story!
Agreed, the “look how well you turned out tho!” line was terrible… and is going to strike a chord with a lot of viewers who have experience with a distant parent, or one who left. It’s especially painful to watch because all he really needed to say was “I’ve spent my entire life trying to find my way back to you, and leaving has been the greatest regret of my life. In trying to get back to you, I found a new purpose… one I thought might bring me back to you, or at least benefit you.” and then just hold his son. It would have been so easy, AND it would have been in character.
Not an expert (read only the first book many years ago), but I enjoyed this season more than the first (especially thefirst half), but I really struggled with the last two episodes. All those emotional beats didn’t land at all. Those two characters dying? Nothing.
It’s my first comment here, so not sure what people think about Lin-Manuel’s
performance, but I thought he was totally miscast. I remember The Golden Compas film and Sam Elliott was sooo amazing as Lee. Lin-Manuel on the other hand, was not able to produce the amount of charisma that in my opnion that character requires.Overall, it’s okay, and I’ll be back for season 3, but something it’s definitely missing here.
Totally agree. Lin-Manuel’s performance is so flat and juvenile—a major disappointment. When my wife and I read the books years ago, the simultaneous death of Lee and Hester was the most wrenching moment we encountered in the three books. Between Lin-Manuel’s diffident acting and Hester’s girly voice, it hardly registered. Farewell Lee Scoresby, we hardly knew ye.
Lin-Manuel’s performance, but I thought he was totally miscast.It didn’t help that they never gave him the song and dance routines he kept asking for.
“Le-Land Scors-by/My name is Le-Land Scors-by/
“And I haven’t done a since thing, but just you wait, just you wait!”
For me, it was never so much his age as it was his demeanor, his cadence, just overall how he comes off on camera. Lin-Manuel is a talented dude, and I like him, but ‘gruff cowboy’ is NOT a role he can play convincingly. His scenes felt like cosplay. Like he’s the in-universe stan who wishes he was Lee Scorsby. In The Mandalorian Season 2, Timothy Olyphant played an imposter in the armor. This felt like that.
He was miscast in this entirely. Gruff Loner Cowboy is not what comes to mind with him. There are other roles in the show where he would be fine just not this one. I’d buy him more as the bear or as Pan or anything else.
Ooh, now I’m imagining Timothy Olyphaunt as Lee Scoresby; although I think I largely agree with Miles’ read that it’s important for the character to be an older man/grandfather figure.
Great review. I haven’t read “His Dark Materials“ in roughly 20 years, so my memory is hazy. When I didn’t really enjoy the show I began to wonder if the books aren’t as good as I remember them. But now I’m in the middle of “The Secret Commonwealth“, and it reads so much better than the show feels that I am convinced it’s the adaptation’s fault I’m not enjoying it.
Well good luck with season 3 show 😉 I can only hope they will massively truncate the Mary and the Mulefa stuff.
Every time Ms. Coulter appeared on the screen I kept seeing Nigel Thornberry in my head and would yell “Smashing!”It was the explorer garb.
Since the beginning, I have yet to not read that word as “Asshatter” I think I’m stuck with it.
it’s a shame because I feel like Jack Thorne’s heart is in the right place, but I have to say that the writing in this show is by far the weakest link… I find it notable that the show improved when either co-written by someone else or not written by him at all. I’ll keep watching because HDM is one of my all-time fave book series and I think the series does have a lot going for it (the daemons, the set design, Will&Lyra, the music…. Ruth Wilson ofc….) but I have to wonder what it could have been in the hands of a different showrunner. Sorry Jack!
I have to wonder what it could have been in the hands of a different showrunner. Try and imagine it in the hands of Ryan Murphy, and you’ll immediately make peace with Jack Thorne. 🙂
Ass-hatter
I enjoy this show as an adventure show, but some of it confuses me (as a non-book reader). What’s the deal with the witches? Are they born that way or are they normal humans that become witches somehow? Maybe they’ve explained this in the show already, but I missed it.Also, what exactly will killing the Authority accomplish? They keep talking about freeing people from fate, but so far, we haven’t really seen anyone confined by fate, so much as confined by a restrictive society. It seems to me that Asrael’s basic goals could be accomplished by overthrowing the Magisterium (shouldn’t be too hard with superpowered witches on your side) and not going to the extreme length of killing a God who doesn’t seem to have much impact on the world, anyway. (Maybe all of this will become clear in the third season?)
I can answer your q about the witches as a reader, if you’d like! It’s not a spoiler but I also dunno if they said it in the show explicitly.
Sure, go ahead.
The witches are similar to humans but are biologically a different species! (similar enough that they mate with human men at times – see Farder Coram) They do not feel cold, for example, and have a very long lifespan. In the books its also made clear that witches can communicate with Dust, in what I think they call “wind whispers”, and they feel moonlight in a way we cannot understand.Witches undergo the separation process from their daemon (as described in the Magisterium scene a few episodes ago), but a male child of a witch is considered human and does not have powers or undergo the process (as far as I am aware, from reading the first trilogy. It’s possible Pullman has expanded on this in the 2nd trilogy, but I haven’t read it yet).
SPOILERS for The Secret CommonwealthAs far as I can tell, killing the Authority has no effect on anything.
Interesting that the show doesn’t highlight John Parry’s betrayal of Lee when he finds Will the way the books do. There was probably no way to call attention to it on screen without being clunky, but the irony of that scene – John breaks his promise to make sure the knife-bearer will protect Lyra, but since the knife-bearer is Will he’s going to protect her anyway – is one of the most memorable parts of the books, for me.
– Holy cast trimming, Batman! Out of the 23 characters that ever got main title credits, only eight survive: Lyra, Will, Mary, Mrs. Coulter, Asriel, the Cardinal, Serafina, and Ruta.- RIP Lee Scoresby. You never grew old enough to be Sam Elliott, and it’s okay because you didn’t deserve it. You also died so that John could help reunite two people who were already traveling together, and he died a few seconds after not doing it, so congratulations on being the apogee of inutility.- And by the way, yes, it is your fault, Hester, you could have reminded Lee of the cloud pine five minutes earlier.- The Alamo in Lyra’s universe was between Dane and French? (How does that even work?). Also, how close is Eve to our myth of Eve? I remember some Christ-like figure exists in their universe, but their religion is still not 100% Christianity (or Hebraism, for that matter).- Did I dream that Mrs. Coulter’s daemon spoke once in season 1? Because if he did, this was the right time to do it again instead of mumbling monkey sounds trying to convey meaning. Also, did Mrs. Coulter and her daemon communicated telepathically? I was told it’s not how it works with daemons.- What’s with everyone stumbling into the object of their search by mere chance while taking a stroll?- Wow, that one Witch was really bad at guarding Lyra. Talk about keeping her safe! She was NAPPING when Mrs. Coulter came!- RIP John “Jopari” Parry, we hardly knew you. Now I get why Andrew Scott always looked so sad. This was a three-day gig.- Was all the “I’m changing” talk just to prepare us for Dafne Keen’s prophesied end of puberty?- Oh no, Roggiah’s back!
As far as I recall, the Adam/Eve myth is pretty much identical except it explains the creation of daemons in some way (or maybe they’re created along with the humans?). The ways in which Pullman reinterprets/reframes this myth in the context of the HDM is really key to the whole cosmogony as well as its moral and philosophical implications for the “real” world.
Put simply, no matter how many times the show has Lee tell us that he
sees Lyra as a daughter, it just doesn’t actually make sense for a
younger version of this character to devote his entire life to her
cause.
My wife keeps saying that she likes Lin-Manuel Miranda as Lee Scorsby, while I (the scenes between him and Marissa Coulter aside) feel he’s less than ideally cast. I will admit my headcanon keeps saying Lee Scorsby is Sam Elliott in The Sam Elliott Part, and I’m not sure how well he’d sell Lee’s ability to use his relative weakness against the forces arrayed to his advantage, but whenever Miranda talk about how he loves Lyra so much he’d sacrifice his life for her, it feels a little…creepy(?), since he doesn’t come off as more than a decade older than her. (It’s actually over two decades which should work fine, if Miranda didn’t always seem closer to late Twenties than early Forties!)Everything about Lin-Manuel Miranda’s Lee Scorsby seems ever so slightly miscast — even his airship feels too tiny and vulnerable to belong to a guy used to shooting his way out of situations with the locals and assorted low-rent air pirates. No, he shouldn’t be able to go head-to-head with a Magesterium airship, but at least his airship should have some defensive capability….
Yeah, it’s been a long time since I read the books, but this was a bad choice. Every time book Scorsby had different obscure knowledge about whatever it was clear he had lead a long winding life that had given him a chance to gain it. It’s just less believable to see the same from a man who looks in his mid to late 30s. And for him to be seeing Lyra as a kind of daughter he never had, bro, you look about the age of many first time fathers. It’s not too late to have a family and settle down, except now it is.
Every time book Scorsby had different obscure knowledge about whatever it was clear he had lead a long winding life that had given him a chance to gain it.
Yep, Sam Elliott in the Sam Elliott Part.
This kind of reminds me — there’s an…okay-ish 1978 supernatural horror movie called ,
where Katherine Ross stars as an interior designer who gets a large
check to fly to England and work on perking up some old pile, so she
drags her bemused boyfriend played by Elliott along. I enjoy the movie
itself for its ::shrug:: “Sure, Whatever” take on our heroes apparently
selling their souls to the Devil, and the modestly-budgeted but
inventive ways it kills off everybody but Ross and Elliott…and the
servants, of course! It’s not on any streaming service that I can find,
though this Elvira-lite horror host named “Misty Brew” seems to be using it for her YouTube show, which is what I linked to above.
It’s
probably only known now as the movie where Sam Elliott and Katherine
Ross fell in love with each other, and have been together ever since….
Do the witches all die at some point? I’d watch that episode over and over. They’re idiots.
I’ll say these two nice, and related, things about season 2.
1) Somehow (even though I think the first two seasons were filmed concurrently?), someone got the producers into a room and said: “Look. There’s two things that separate this from being Every Teen Dystopian Novel Ever: the daemons and Mrs. Coulter. Give those things twice as much screen time.”
2) Ruth Wilson retroactively made season 1 and its neglect of daemons worse through her season-long curbstomping of her literal soul. As a (long ago) book reader it was thrilling to watch and singlehandedly justified the existence of the show; it’s a shame that most non book readers probably don’t realize the depths that character was plunging to.
well-made missed opportunity
That is the best summary I’ve yet heard of the whole series. Huge fan of the books, and think the show’s been pretty serviceable on the whole but never quite doing the source material justice.
Good change with Will’s storyline from the books.
Asseater? Asshatter?
There is a Denis O’Hare play a lot of theatres do (because it’s cheap and good) called “An Iliad”…that “An” should apply to this whole series as this is “AN His Dark Materials.” The choices here are so specific to this show, often to the detriment of the material…I thought Ruta Skadi was lying about meeting Asriel because we never saw it, I had no idea why, it made no sense…Will is a sullen dick to everybody, not quite as bad as the kid on “Your Honor” (who needs to die) but I can’t get behind him as a protagonist. Having Jopari killed by a random guy was idiotic because Serfina Pekkala didn’t show up in time to do anything for Lee (and it took her seemingly half an hour to get there) and also didn’t stop the guy who killed Jopari. I am assuming her whispering over him means Lin will be back for some afterlife thing in the third season (I read the books too long ago to remember), probably where he tells Lyra whatever was inside her the whole time, otherwise that whole plotline makes no sense whatsoever. There are so many bad choices (having Coulter slaughter the helpless trusting and then sleeping witch, wasting time with Mary Malone although the “can I get a hug” scene was nice, a lot of the dialogue where the characters can’t even figure out what they’re supposed to do to get into place for the next change from the books) that it’s difficult to lose oneself in the story.I will watch the third season but I look forward to somebody else trying harder 20 years from now. Among other things they can at least throw in a montage of Lyra trying to read the alethiometer and failing or Will trying to use the knife and failing, or give Will something to play other than whiny.
Well, they are following books … which I haven’t read, but I assume they leave us off somewhere near the end of Book 2? I was very disappointed to see Lee go, and Will’s dad go after JUST reuniting with him. Again, haven’t read the books. The Witches seem to be down to just Sarafina, Will is alone and Lyra is trapped in a trunk with her mother… so I think it was a pretty gripping cliffhanger that left me wanting more. The Azrael bit soliciting support I found odd, as if they just needed to get McAvoy on screen just so they could claim he was in Season 2.
No one will be reading this but [spoilers] nonetheless.I’m honestly pretty glad they removed the Asriel standalone episode, as a book reader. They’re already expanding the world an awful lot more than they need to, as the two kids are basically the whole focus of the narrative up to this point. I can see why they are shunting a little of the plot of The Amber Spyglass into the show at this point as it’s the largest of the books and is probably worthy of two series (not that I especially want that) as it’s so rich. But Asriel does just disappear entirely during The Subtle Knife, and I don’t think they need to check in with him as there’s a sense of chaos during The Subtle Knife as you’re presented with two pre-teens who are pivotal figures in a fight they’re too young to understand.The casting of McAvoy is kind of strange as he’s probably the biggest ‘name’ in the show, so I get why they want to make him larger than he is. But he’s not really that much of a character even in The Amber Spyglass.
ok honestly i’ve been lurking on these for a while and i agree with everyone that this season was mostly fine but a couple weeks back someone mentioned that each episode was set up like a video game and i can’t get that out of my head. like every scene feels like it’s a literal cut-scene, overtly-expository dialogue and all, and i keep waiting for the angle to slowly sway out, and for the effects to get slightly worse until can i grab the controller and actually start playing. it’s easy to forgive a cut scene for lack of context or personality or oomph or any additional, extraneous piece of dialogue outside of the driving plot, but it’s not so easy to forgive this show. like i almost feel bad for HBO for putting all this money into a show that acts like little more than a glorified video game that you can’t actually play.jeez, this whole thing is just so frustrating. (to the point where, after 10 years of reading this site, i actually created a kinja account to complain). it has the budget and sets and costumes and HBO and (some of the) actors, but the writing and, this episode especially, the directing is so bad it’s getting kind of embarrassing. i’ve been watching this with my mom who read the books with me as a kid (probably 15 years ago?) so it’s been a while but every scene she turns to me and is like “whaaaa?” and then i have to explain the episode to her based on my slightly better dwindling memory. each scene in the show, alone, sort of works (especially if you do have book knowledge) but as a show, it’s kind of nothing? take, for example, lee’s death scene. he runs, fights, sacrifices, dies and we were just sitting there in silence like okay? i guess? i cried for days when i read lee and hester’s final convo a kid, and again a couple years ago when i read it one winter break in-between semesters. and now i was just sitting here on my couch totally forgetting that lee even died two minutes after it happened, why he died, what his intentions were, why he loved lyra so much, how he found shaman-man, why i was supposed to like him, why the magisterium were there, how they tracked him down, how they were tracking lyra, why they were so mad, why they cared even about a little aeronaut in the balloon? agh! and oh yeah, wasn’t will’s dad the head lord asriel brings back from the arctic in the first episode of the series ever? and mary malone was just walking in the hills surviving solely off of nature valley granola? or did she give that to those girls? and what about the hundreds of other kids in the little italian hilltown on the sea?the directing too is just so bad? like all of the action scenes are cut in a way that makes them purposefully unexciting? and the characters don’t react at all to anything? and there’s no momentum or rhythm just randomly spliced shots everywhere?i think i’ve figured out why nothing hits. the show is just repeating context collapse. every scene builds a short story before it inevitably crashes and is forgotten again in the next scene. these books could have easily had a well done, 13 episode total adaptation, but they chose 22-24 episodes, which is fine, but at least use that time for something! like we spent probably 4 times the amount of time with Lee in this show than we did in the book and i don’t think i know anything more about him except that maybe he was abused as a child?? which i mean, okay??? but maybe do something with that or like use it to create a larger patchwork of a character with real intentions, heart, and soul? there’s no texture here. the characters talk as if they solely exist to move the plot along but, because the plot only exists in speech, there’s not much of a plot to speak of. there’s no threads being trimmed and pulled by anyone behind the scenes. there’s no emotional levity to any scene because the scenes exist solely for the purpose of existing. it’s all artifice and very little meat, no matter how hard ruth wilson may try. i almost wish the show had half the budget and was on the CW and was a little bit messy but at least interesting. because, despite all the heresy and angels and talking animals and witches and bears and black blobs moving through the sky, this show is not interesting.which is a shame because the books have so much soul. they shaped my ideology at 12 stronger than i think i realize, even today. they feel brave, and warm, and heartbreaking. and the book’s central message, of the joys of consciousness and sex and love and everything good and bad the world has to throw at you, of the simple radicalness of having the freedom to live, won’t work if the show doesn’t embrace those things itself. it feels like i’m watching some skeleton of the books, post specter-attack.i’m sure jack thorne is a nice guy but uhh maybe send him to a writing workshop or two? or uhhh hire someone else? i know we’ll always have the books, and this adaptation doesn’t change anything about that, but damn it would’ve been nice to share this world and its poignancy with even more viewers. these books are not unadaptable. they could have lent themselves to a really interesting interpretation. this is not it. but there’s one more season, that doesn’t seem to be written yet, so let’s hope and pray that thorne can at least brush the landing.
Thank you for creating an account just to post this. You summed every problem up with this show so well.My husband introduced me to these books I think 15 years ago and we LOVE them. We were so excited at the idea of an adaptation on HBO because – it’s HBO and they don’t have to worry about ratings (…to a degree) or content (also to a degree) and it has just been such a let down. The writing is so bad and the acting can’t really make up for how bad it is. And I’ll watch Ruth Wilson do just about anything, but sheesh, she isn’t this much of the story in the books! arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
If the Authority isn’t all-knowing, all-powerful, everywhere-present, and self-existent, then it isn’t God. This can’t be the “atheist Narnia” and then mis-define “God” down to the level of something like Zeus.