Dogs form into packs, blood weeps down walls as Lilith returns for Frasier revival
The vortex of evil herself, Bebe Neuwirth, will return for the new season of Frasier
Aux News Lilith
Of all the people to make their way back to Frasier, Lilith, the bane of Frasier’s existence, the woman who threw his heart in a Cuisinart and hit purée, is returning to make Dr. Crane’s life a living hell. Per Variety, Neuwirth will attend her and Frasier’s son’s birthday party. The description reads:
When they reunite at Freddy’s birthday party, Lilith, in classic form, is far from pleased about having to share Freddy (Jack Cutmore-Scott) now that Frasier is back living in Boston. What begins as a fun party with friends and family, inevitably becomes a Lilith-and-Frasier showdown for the ages!
As Lilith, Bebe Neuwirth has been ruining Frasier’s life since 1986 when Kelsey Grammer’s character rolled into Cheers with her on a date. Despite his desire to strike her in her first appearance, the couple married, divorced, and earned Neuwirth two Emmys for Cheers and several more appearances on Frasier.
Lilith is, somehow, the only holdover making her way to Boston for the Frasier revival thus far. Obviously, the hope is that more barflies from Cheers will appear, seeing as none of the Seattle crew will be. Still, if it’s just Frasier and Lilith tossing barbs at each other over a fine Bordeaux, we won’t complain.
The first episode of Frasier makes Lilith a bedrock for the whole series, with Frasier explaining, “Six months ago, I was living in Boston. My wife had left me, which was very painful. Then she came back to me, which was excruciating.” We can only imagine how her return will make Frasier feel. If we had to guess, it would probably require Frasier to upgrade his parka because the forecast in Boston will be positively frigid with Lilith there.
45 Comments
My earliest ever memory of the original Frasier spinoff being a concept was when I read a short news item saying there was talk of doing a spinoff about Lilith actually. Then of course, we got what we know as Frasier instead.
Who knows what I thought about it, if anything, at the time, but right now in 2023 I’d probably much rather have a Lilith spinoff (revival? whatever) than a Frasier one.
We’ve been binge watching Cheers lately. It’s the first time I’ve watched it since it originally aired and I’m struck by how Lilith isn’t near the shrew that she was made out to be from my memories of watching Frasier. Granted, we’re only at season 9 and they haven’t gotten divorced yet, but she’s a lot NICER than I would have thought. She does have that robotic coldness about her, but she never comes off as simply mean.
Yes. One might say …. Lilith fair.
she is one of the heroes of neuwirth.
They don’t actually get divorced in Cheers. Lilith (spoiler alert, I guess?) briefly leaves Frasier for another man in the final season, but they’re seemingly happily reconciled by the finale.But yeah, Frasier revises quite a bit of Frasier’s backstory. E.g., in Cheers Frasier’s mother is a manipulative harpy and his father is both a) a research scientist and b) dead. They lampshade the Martin retcons in an early Frasier episode, but I don’t think they ever try to reconcile the Hester from “Diane Meets Mom” with the warm and caring figure that the Crane men remember so fondly.
I think they did a good job retconning Frasier’s family history in Cheers to fit his show, I think it was basically made out as being embarrassed about his family or something like that? From what I remember when the Cheers characters crossed paths with him on Frasier, for his dad didn’t they say “I thought you said your father was dead?” and for Niles “You never mentioned you had a brother.”Though not necessary and stretching things too far, I guess we could also say that Frasier’s dad went to Cheers under an assumed identity because he wanted to see his son (his character was a piano player then, wasn’t he?).
Yeah, from “The Show Where Sam Shows up,” S02E16:Martin : [about Frasier] Hey, Sam, what’d he tell you about me, the father, the old cop?Sam Malone : Well, uh, he told me you were dead.Martin : [surprised] Dead?Frasier : Well, we had an argument one day. He called me a stuffed shirt and hung up on me. I was mad.Sam Malone : [to Martin] You were a cop?[to Frasier] Sam Malone : You told me he was a research scientist.[Martin reacts] Frasier : [to Martin] You were dead! What did it matter?Pretty good gag.
The writers on Frasier were top notch. Hopefully the new show has writers anywhere near as good
Did Frasier ever say on Cheers that he didn’t have a brother? If not, they could’ve made it so he’d told everyone offscreen that he had one.
There are hints that Hester was a … complicated woman in the later series. When Niles and Frasier are trying to decode a dream Frasier is having, they go through a word association that runs, “Food, criticism, Mother!” And in another episode, Niles quotes her by saying, “Remember what Mother used to say: a handshake is as good as a hug.”
Exactly – as Ken Levine has recounted on his blog, that ep was written by Casey/Angell/Lee, who were excited to be able to execute those retcons, and also felt there was no discrepancy presented by his mother (and that “shrink with mommy issues” might be a rich comedy vein).
And she also cheated on Martin
+ she cheated on Martin
They pretty much only make Lillith the shrew in Season 11 once they realize that Frasier is getting the spin-off and they want him to be single.
The major issue was that Bebe Neuwirth wanted to focus on the stage and not be tied to a series- especially since Frasier would be taped in LA and she was doing Broadway stuff.
I can also imagine that their relationship got a lot frostier after the divorce, too.
Who got the townhouse in the divorce?
Their townhouse was a very very very fine townhouse.
Norm did. It was his reward for decorating it.
I had been pretty disappointed by the lack of anyone from Frasier showing up, but honestly Lilith goes a LONG way to make up for that. She truly is an incredible character and the jokes at her expense never get old—it helps that she’s usually more than up to the task of throwing them right back.
It makes sense for the show to move forward organically. Frasier’s father has presumably passed on (as has the actor who played him) which negates the need for Daphne to remain present, and anyways she’s wed to Niles and they have a kid, so they remain elsewhere. What you’re really left with is Frasier and Lilith. I suppose I’d like to see Frasier succeed when it comes to love. Maybe because I’m single and middle aged, and so I want to believe it can still happen. I was holding out hope that maybe he’d still be with Laura Linney’s character, whom he was set off to go meet in the series finale.
This show will also have the same relation to the original Frasier as that did to Cheers – one regular holdover, and you bet your ass there will be the occasional appearance of an old familiar face.
Yeah I’d be thrilled if Jane Leeves or Peri Gilpin pop up for an episode, but yeah it doesn’t need to be Frasier all over again. Honestly the main thing that worries me, is that Kelsey Grammar’s politics will leech into this thing, and Frasier the character will morph into some political reactionary using his background in psychology to rail against trans people or something.
Of all the things to worry about…
I don’t want to give the man too much credit – I read his autobiography and he is a consummate asshole – but I think Grammar is the kind of actor who is happy to play a role without it needing to be a reflection of who he is. After all, he’s been a Republican for a long time but was always happy to play Frasier as a liberal, not to mention Sideshow Bob as an exaggeration of the right wing’s worst excesses.
Just curious… how did it (i.e. Grammar being an a$$hole) come through in his autobiography?
Are you labouring under the impression that Kelsey Grammer has only become right wing since Frasier ended?
A lot of actors overdo deadpan when they go for comic effect, so that you know it’s a bit. Neuwirth made it look natural. She’s the perfect example of how, if you do it right, playing the straight man can be the funniest part on screen.
I feel better about it like this because it means it’s not trying to really be Frasier S12, it’s a new thing that’s another chapter in the character’s story. I’m still not terribly hyped for it but whether it’s good or bad it won’t reflect on the original.
It seems strange and regrettable that none of the Frasier show cast want to reprise their roles. Are they so wealthy or was it not a happy family while filming the previous show despite its great success?
Enjoyed Crane’s character throughout the runs of both series, but found it difficult to return to once Grammer’s politics reared its ugly head. Despite being “stuffy,” I liked Lilith Sternin way more than Diane Chambers; especially after that Cheers episode when she literally let her hair down. Was definitely a Neuwirth fan ever since.
I hope we see a lot of Legs, er, Lilith.
Do think cuisinart is synonomous with blender like a kleenex/band-aid situation? It’s not ever really been a thing I’ve ever heard anyone use that way. Not even Eve 6.
giving a star for the music joke.
Cuisinart was the first brand of food processors in the US, so a lot of people refer to the entire product category as “cuisinarts”. It’s like how in the South every soda is a Coke, even if it’s Pepsi.
Maybe that was a thing for the first decade or so, or among the generation that came up when they hit the market, but I’m 38 and have absolutely never heard that happen in my life.
One of the best things ‘Frasier’ ever did was bring Lilith back, pair her up with Niles, and let the two lob insults back and forth like ICBMs. I’m particularly fond of this exchange from a Thanksgiving episode.Niles: How far along are you with the turkey?Lilith: I’m almost done defrosting.Niles: (beat) And the turkey?Lilith: Might I suggest you stuff it?
Ah yes, gold. At least with her being in the new series, if Niles guests for an episode, we might once again hear more witty barbs
Neuwirth is a gem. Glad she got the invite.
Honestly the first good news I’ve heard about this revival/reboot/whatever. I still think it’s DOA without Niles, but Bebe Neuwirth makes everything she’s in much better, so at least it’ll be worth watching a bit for her.
Of course she’s coming back…when Bebe Neuwirth was on Will and Grace she told Karen and Jack not to worry about Lilith because she “wants to play that bitch forever.”
The great irony, of course, is that Bebe Neuwirth is a wonderfully warm and super-talented human being and Kelsey Grammer is… Kelsey Grammer.