Dave Chappelle’s Saturday Night Live monologue criticized by ADL, others
Dave Chappelle's 15-minute Saturday Night Live monologue about Kanye West and Kyrie Irving perpetuates harmful antisemitic tropes, argues the ADL
Aux News Dave Chappelle
How unsurprising it is to wake up and find that Dave Chappelle’s Saturday Night Live appearance is being criticized for his controversial statements. Some have surely been waiting in vindictive anticipation for what the “woke mob” has to complain about this time; others may be weary that he has chosen a new subject to philosophize about (dropping his previous favorite target, transgender people). What unites us all is that no one can be shocked to see the comedian courting controversy.
Deciding to invite back a host who has been condemned for anti-transgender sentiments was a statement on the part of Lorne Michaels and Saturday Night Live, and the venerated program decided to go all-in on its support for Chappelle by allowing him a lengthy 15-minute monologue. (A segment which, for the record, this site called “the best and worst” moment of the night.) Chappelle covered a lot of ground in those 15 minutes, but perhaps most notably he discussed the recent antisemitic behavior of figures like Kyrie Irving and his friend Kanye West. Among other things, Chappelle joked that “it’s not a crazy thing to think” that Jewish people control Hollywood, “But it’s a crazy thing to say out loud in a climate like this.”
“A climate like this,” to be clear, is one in which there is a precipitous rise in antisemitism, in America and beyond, so it is a cause for concern that Chappelle would use an institutional platform to reinforce antisemitic tropes. (He stated that Jewish people don’t “run the place,” yet also claimed Ye “broke showbusiness rules” by identifying Jewish people as controlling Hollywood, which is “a coincidence and you should never talk about it,” he said facetiously to the laughter of the crowd.)
Chappelle’s remarks were criticized and condemned by both Jewish and non-Jewish audience members alike. Anti-Defamation League CEO Jonathan Greenblatt tweeted, “We shouldn’t expect @DaveChappelle to serve as society’s moral compass, but disturbing to see @nbcsnl not just normalize but popularize #antisemitism. Why are Jewish sensitivities denied or diminished at almost every turn? Why does our trauma trigger applause?”
While Chappelle’s comments certainly do not share the overt admiration for Adolf Hitler that Ye allegedly holds, his monologue raised alarm bells for many given the pervasiveness of antisemitism. Chappelle has been resistant to criticism before, so it seems unlikely that he will respond differently to this wave of critics. As for Saturday Night Live—which has welcomed a few antisemitic conspiracy theory peddlers in recent years—it seems to be business as usual.
255 Comments
When are all those cigarettes gonna finally catch up to this guy?
Based on the sound of his voice, pretty soon.
So Ye’s mistake wasn’t spouting anti-Semitic conspiracy theories, it was speaking the truth out loud? Holy shit – I already thought Chapelle was an asshole, but it looks like he’s ascended to a whole new level. Anyone who decides to continue giving this guy a platform can go fuck themselves.
He didn’t say Jewish people control Hollywood, he said he could understand why some people might think that. “There’s also a lot of Black people in Ferguson, Missouri, but that don’t mean they run the place.”
It’s almost like there’s a contingent of vocal Twitter activists who are ready to condemn any and everything he says based not on the content of his material but because he said something they didn’t like about transgender people months ago?
I doubt that the CEO of the ADL gave a fuck what Dave Chappelle has said about trans people.
agree
No, in this case he KNEW he was winking at “Jews control media”. No one mentioned the trans stuff. Either defend the comment on its merits or don’t.
You don’t KNOW shit. The trans comments are the only reason he is being criticized now. To not acknowledge this is purposeful ignorance. He made the point that just because there are a lot of Jews in Hollywood, (there are), that doesn’t mean they run shit. If you are ignoring his actual words in order to see bigotry you WANT to see then you’re just another disingenuous Twitter activist. Sit down, fool.
You’re right. He explicitly said that Jews do not control Hollywood. And then spent ten minutes implying that in fact they do.
I’m Jewish and don’t care that much. Robust intellectual discussion is a humongous part of Judaism. Ever been to a Yeshiva or seen people study the Talmud? De-platforming people seems in contradiction to that.
That’s called “Comedy”!
I always found it interesting that people criticize Hollywood for being
“run by Jews” when you look at the actual history there. Back before
film was really even a thing, Jewish people weren’t allowed to work in
many fields of industry in America. Film came along and most people
thought “ah that’s a fad/gimmick it’ll never amount to much.” and they
basically LET Jewish people have it. So, they built it from the ground
up. Now a hundred years later people bitch about Jews running the
industry and uhhh yeah no duh. They fuckin’ created it. They earned that shit.
Hey, we’ve been at the top of the media game ever since we wrote the Bible!
What you’re saying is absolutely true… Jewish-Americans were largely responsible for developing Hollywood and the American film industry. They took a risk that few others were willing to take, and they deserve to be rewarded for that.The tricky part is that we, as a society, don’t accept that rationale for any other industry. Many of the largest tech companies in the US were founded by white males (including assimilated Jews), but liberal America is not defending the right of that demographic group to retain power and operational control over that industry. In fact, those companies are constantly under pressure to diversify their operational structure.Over the past decade, tech companies worth a few trillion dollars in market cap (Microsoft, Google, Adobe, Starbucks, etc.), which were founded by white men of various ethnic backgrounds, have voluntarily handed leadership to Indian-American CEOs.
Not to mention that these days, all of Hollywood is owned by giant multinational conglomerates, which generally do not have a disproportionate representation of Jews at the upper end. I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s still a disproportionate number of Jews at high-level positions in Hollywood studios, but they sure don’t own those studios any more.
They built it…and then got people from their network/community jobs!Which isn’t actually different from my Irish great-grandfather getting a job on the NY Subway, haha!
No, he spent ten minutes pointing out that there are a whole lot of Jewish people there, before concluding “But there are also a whole lot of Black people in Ferguson.”
No, he spent 10 minutes explaining how the population at large can say some things about some people but not others. Are all Blacks in gangs and all Italians in the mob? Of course not.
It’s almost as if the AV Club took quotes out of context to completely mischaracterize the piece in an effort to get clicks. But that would be completely out of character for the AV Club
Ferguson does now have an African-American mayor:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ella_Jones
I don’t think you are meant to take Ferguson literally.
Back in 2014 Ferguson did stand out as a place which had shifted to a majority African-American population while elected officials were still mostly white (I remember at the time Radley Balko suggesting it no longer had the tax base to support a government separate from St. Louis but its self-interested political class wanted to preserve their own jobs), so his joke would have been accurate when it was in the news.
That was a funny line. But I felt that it was buried under the rest of his long-ass *wink wink nudge nudge* “Sure is weird that I can’t talk about Jews!” monologue. His monologue also included a self-indulgent, “You don’t take me seriously but I’m speaking real shit” bit that he keeps inserting in his specials, like he’s fed up with his audiences not taking him seriously. But he only uses that tone when he was talking about the experience of being Black in America; his “I stand with Jewish people” line was played like a joke.It’s not hard to come away thinking he doesn’t really care about Jewish people – whether that’s the truth or not.
Or maybe just maybe he cares about Jewish people as much as they care about him
Yeah, it doesn’t really work because we know Chappelle is smarter than this. If some other comic did a bit about how black neighborhoods were frequently more dangerous than white ones and then suggested they’d get in trouble for talking about it, Chappelle, along with everyone else, would instantly know what they were getting at and why it sucks.
The history of Jewish people in Hollywood goes back to vaudeville, which was considered a vaguely disreputable profession for upstanding white Christians. That created an opportunity for Jewish immigrants, facing discrimination and bigotry in “polite” society, because there were fewer barriers to entry. The success that some Jewish people have found there is a testament to their triumph over the shitty lot they or their families were given, not something mysterious or nefarious. Offering none of that context to instead imply that “The Jews” will shut you down for talking about them is the kind of ignorant bullshit that Chappelle wouldn’t tolerate for a second if it were directed at one of the groups he belongs to.
Well the audience disagrees with you, along with Lorne Michaels.
Yeah, and both Lorne Michaels and the people who still love SNL suck raw asshole. Your point? Fuck them, fuck Chappelle.
Oh crap, 200-year old comedy mummy Lorne Micheals disagrees with me, along with a room consisting of up to twelve well-off New Yorkers! Welp, guess my opinion is invalidated forever!
What did he say that was offensive? He didn’t disparage anyone.
oh cmon man, y’all wild.
nobody cares
You sound like a bitch
To be clear, its YOU who added the word ‘truth’ Chappelle refers to these things as ‘thoughts’. Kinda weird to make that stretch.
Not sure I’m gonna base the validity of an order to autofornicate based on an obtuse and stridently self-righteous misinterpretation. Seems like you should interrogate your inner fascist before determining who is or isn’t morally decent based on what entertainers they like.
kyrie, kanye, hershell.the people he actually joked on were all blacks!
Greenblatt is a huge racist piece of shit so take from his pov what you will.
Definitely didn’t have “Blacks vs. Jews, online” on my 2022 bingo card.
Our bingo cards for 2020-2022 are completely nuts by this point.
Jezebel’s Dirt Bag for today has trans people throwing their hat in the ring, literally writing (un-ironically), “Jesus Jews are touchy. They think they’re oppressed, try being trans”.
TRAUMA IS CURRENCY
HOW MUCH YOU GOT?
They’re clearly a troll, that comment has 4 stars with responses well outweighing that number. It seems weird that you want to highlight the obvious shit-stirrer all over this thread.
They absolutely aren’t a troll, they’ve been a regular for many years (their kinja history proves this). I had an account for a few years but left after all the decent writers at Jez were fired (and lost the password for the account). I don’t know why you would make the claim they were a troll when their history clearly shows she’s not.
Their kinja history also shows that they’ve made no mention of being trans but they do have right leaning opinions. Either way, no one on Jezebel is excusing their comment but you seem to want to paint that comment as the opinion of everyone there and all trans people.
Jfc you are OBSESSED with me and my statement… never did i say “all trans people”, never did i say “everyone (at Jezebel)…two fucking days of you arguing over a point that is based in fact, but you nitpick to keep this going… get a fucking life.
today has trans people throwing their hat in the ring Pretty weird way to say “one person”
Lets say theoretically that they arent a troll. It would still be a single comment from a single poster which was condemned by everyone else. Which means that you are still an amazingly disingenuous and ignorant piece of stupid shit for framing it as if it’s somewidely held opinion amongst the commenters there or amongst trans people. Go fuck yourself, you aggressively ignorant dumbfuck.
“They absolutely aren’t a troll, they’ve been a regular for many years (their kinja history proves this)“
Well then, they CAN’T be a troll!
Because he’s a trash creature whose job is to flit around the thread going “a random nameless tran on a message board said a mean. a random nameless tran on a message board said a mean. im smart and good at fooling people.” to excuse Chapelle. Sorry, did I spoil the punchline?
How the fuck am I excusing Chapelle? I pointed out an antisemitic statement from a well-known trans woman who frequents Jezebel (and reddit, and participated in the Discord chat specifically for Jezebel).
Jules does give off that impression. But it is a well known wokester when it comes to trans issues on jezebel.
It’s not “Black v Jews.” It’s Dave Chapelle vs. Jews and he happens to be black.
It was on the 2020 bingo card, thanks to Nick Cannon and Professor Griff. Seems to be sort of a recurring anti-semitic trope!
Da Root says that Blacks are Jews
Oh look just the ADL yelling at another black guy.
Oh look just somebody on the Internet stripping all the context and nuance out of an event so they can blame the victim for reacting.
oh look, just somebody on the internet who doesn’t understand satire/comedy and thinks everything everyone says is harmful to somebody.
Oh look, squirrel!
Where were the jokes?
What victim?
All these racists want to ignore the ADL’s long history of racism and attacks against civil rights groups in the USA. They don’t care that the ADL attacked Black Lives Matter yet now sits in judgement of Black men.
The ADL is not the victim. They are a powerful hate group that has powerful allies which they use to defend Israel’s holocaust against Palestinians while doing everything they can to attack people of color and civil rights movements. You are just a stupid racist asshole who has never listened to any person of color in your life so your default is just believing anything the all white ADL says while knowing nothing about history.
Back away from the Hater-ade! It’s showing you to be a fool and if you keep drinking it, it will ruin your life as it has done to hundreds of January 6 insurrectionists.
You are a troll.
*says the raging anti-semite*
The positive thing about this controversy is it makes it easier for us to identify the rabid anti-semites. Thanks!
Go fuck yourself racist. Palestinians are human beings and the ADL is a hate group that lies about their genocide and the apartheid state of Israel. They have a long history of attacking people of color and civil rights groups. Lots of history, writing, and speeches on this topic but you obviously don’t care because it would require you to listen to people of color.
I’m sure the Palestinians will thank you for defending a vicious transphobe
None of what you wrote makes Chapelle’s comments any less anti-Semitic. You’re just trying to say anti-semitism is justified.
All of that projection won’t make the anti-semitism suddenly justified.
Fuck off racist.
Yawn. Get a valid point and you want be so easily upset.
The guy screaming racist was very vocally supporting Russia against Ukraine. Russia, a “nation” that has very much embraced spreading racism wherever it can. Just look at the Kremlin support for GOP racism.
“Go fuck yourself racist.”
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, pot? Kettle? FUCK OFF.
Also the people who have no idea the toxic history of the ADL…
“The ADL is not the victim. They are a powerful hate group”
Hi, racist.
The one you’re replying to would happily condemn Jews for reacting poorly to a synagogue shooting if he thought it would suit his trolling satisfaction.
Accurate, but also…people are “stripping all the context and nuance out of an event” when ignoring that Dave only made various comments they have condemned while performing crafted bits on stage in his capacity as a standup comedian. It’s literally an act. It’s his act. It’s not a speech or lecture.
Oh look, a racist!
I think Chappelle’s act is completely authentic and true to his personal worldview, which is that being a Black man in America is the ne plus ultra of oppression, and therefore anybody else claiming victimhood needs to be told why they aren’t as disadvantaged or marginalized as himself. The kind of sad thing about his character is that he is blind to any similarities between the way he’s treated and the way Jewish or trans people are treated. He sees only a zero-sum competition in which other marginalized groups are unfairly trying to take the crown of suffering from him.I don’t think he’s really antisemitic or transphobic in a hateful way, it’s more that he feels these groups need to stop complaining so much because they have it easy compared to himself. Which is the kind of thing that will regularly trigger this response.
Very interesting that you point this out, given that in jezebel’s comment section there are trans people writing, “Jesus Jews are touchy. They think they’re oppressed, try being trans”. It’s turning into a fight amongst marginalized communities…I feel like society is turning into a right-wing punchline.
This is what the right wants. Everybody thinking they have it harder and that other people are too sensitive.
I saw that comment on Jezebel and I laughed my ass off. I read it as a self-aware joke. Irony is 100% lost in text.
I too can extrapolate broad conclusions from one internet comment
That man is so strawy it fell down before you could even finish your sentence.
Opression Olympics gets us nowhere. We all hang together when it comes to far right conservatives
So with Chappelle’s topic about comparisons you think it’s interesting that people are making comparisons?
What else were you expecting them to do?
Look, I’m not going to stand here and claim there are no shitty trans people. Like every group, we’ve got some shit-heels among us. That’s just people. But claiming there are multiple real, actual trans people in a single comment section seemingly defending Chappelle or at least supporting his latest public embarrassment, well, someone in this equation ain’t being entirely truthful.
Anyway, SNL has been shit for years, and in a just world, this would be the final (of many) nails in its coffin. I used to love Chappelle. He used to be so witty and incisive. Now he’s just some washed-up hack who loves punching every which way but up. Tragic.
It looks to me like he’s deliberately provoking people to make some kind of point about The Nature Of Stand-Up Comedy. The point, I think, is that you CAN shout “fire” in a crowded theatre as long as it’s a joke (which to stand-up comedy intelligentsia means something like “an essential social mirror”). But obviously things aren’t black and white and there’s a continuum there. I don’t think he’s on the right place on the continuum but I think he thinks he is and I think he’s struggling very hard against what are ultimately ECONOMIC forces and not, as he probably thinks, cultural ones.
That was a troll impersonating a trans poster. Jezebel has had an issue with one troll in particular who consistently does this, but they can’t — or won’t — do anything about it, it seems.
Okay but I don’t think you can really compare some rando in a Jezebel comment section to one of the most famous and well-paid comedians alive. Chapelle has a much bigger cultural impact (and thus greater responsibility, and culpability) than a million dumb internet comments combined.
I blame intersectionality. It’s led to nothing but ‘I’m more oppressed than you’ arguments, and no progress. Once we recognise that we are all down here in the shit together, things may change. But it will never happen. Humans are small-minded and tribal in the main, ‘tis a pity, but there you go.
There is literally ONE comment saying that, it is from a known ajti-trans troll account, and everyone criticized them. You disingenuous, ignorant dumbfuck.
That’s unfortunate. I actively avoid the jezebel comments section, so I’ll just have to take your word for it. At this point I assume they’re all a bunch of trolls.
Its almost like there’s a culture of pitting different groups of people against each other to keep them occupied..
I think those are good points and probably accurate. Dave comes across to me as a fairly thoughtful guy, and his observational kind of humor is generally dead on.
Could someone please pull me out of the greys? Thanks!
Agree. His comedy basically relies on him stating what he truly thinks about a “hot” subject up front. Then he dances along the lines of what is and isn’t “okay” to say regarding said subject for the sake of comedy in subsequent bits. He’s been doing that for as long as I’ve watched him and what he said on SNL amounts to the same sort of approach. I also assumed some would be big mad after I saw his opening. And…I also assume he will ride this outcry out as he has before. That’s his comedy.
I used to agree with Dave being thoughtful, but I feel like he’s been out of touch for years.
This piece also completely mischaracterizes what Chappelle said about Jewish people “running Hollywood.”The last joke of the bit was about how while there *are* a bunch of Jewish folks in Hollywood…there are even more black folks in Ferguson, and it’s not like they run the place.
I don’t see a whole lot of similarities between the situations of African-Americans & Jewish-Americans… but then Dave Chappelle himself is in a VERY different situation from the average African-American.
I mean… Abraham Lincoln was called the “American Moses.” The connections between Jews and Black people actually run fairly deep. It’s a shame when it turns into a pissing contest rather than a source of of solidarity.
Lincoln was a real person. Modern historians are doubtful about the biblical account of Jewish captivity in Egypt, believing instead that the pyramids were built by local farmers during their off-seasons.During the Civil War itself, the Confederacy had a Jewish Secretary of War, and Grant banned Jews “as a class” from his military district (although Lincoln countermanded this order). My understanding is that the political situation changed after Leo Frank (although ironically the primary alternative suspect for his case was the African-American janitor at that factory).
“Modern historians are doubtful about the biblical account of Jewish captivity in Egypt” So?“believing instead that the pyramids were built by local farmers during their off-seasons.”Cool. Jews never claimed to have built the pyramids.“During the Civil War itself, the Confederacy had a Jewish Secretary of War”The US recently had a black president. That means racism is over, right?Many Jews were active in the abolitionist movement before the war and the Union Army had seven Jewish generals.“My understanding is that the political situation changed after Leo Frank” From the beginning of European settlement, Jews have occupied a different place in the caste system of America than they did back in the old country. In Europe Jews were the bottom-ranked caste for thousands of years, similar to Dalits in India or African-Americans here. In America, because African-Americans take the place of the ‘out’ caste, Jews are considered provisionally ‘white’. That is, they are generally treated as white unless it is inconvenient for those with actual power to do so.
Precisely because the US had an explicit racial caste system there was such a thing as legally “white”, and Jews (along with other European immigrants) always qualified.
The US recently had a black president. That means racism is over, right?
That could only happen because we live in what Fabio Rojas calls a “post-racist society”:
https://orgtheory.wordpress.com/2013/01/18/post-racist-not-post-racial/It could not have happened in the 19th century.
In Europe Jews were the bottom-ranked caste for thousands of years, similar to Dalits in India or African-Americans here.
No, there was an entirely different occupational profile. Plenty of royalty had Jewish doctors (even Popes did!), which is far from being untouchable. Nor were they rural peasants working the farms, “hewers of wood and drawers of water”, instead typically being prohibited from what Yuri Slezkine would term an “Appollonian” connection to the land. A more apt comparison than India would be the millet system of the Ottoman empire, which also separated different religious communities. There were times when they might be expelled from various places (unlike a lowest class whose labor is to be exploited), but after Cromwell let them back into England, for example, Jewish ancestry didn’t prohibit Ricardo or Disraeli from winning Parliamentary office (or becoming Prime Minister, in the latter’s case).
Modern historians are doubtful about the biblical account of Jewish captivity in Egypt, believing instead that the pyramids were built by local farmers during their off-seasons.I, too, am very doubtful of slaves escaping through a cleft in the sea held open by a prophet channeling/invoking the power of an invisible man.There is, however, archaeological evidence that Israelites lived in Ancient Egypt (reference to a people by the name of Israel appears on an Egyptian stele dated to about 1200 BCE).But whether they built pyramids would depend on which pyramids we’re talking about. The three most famous ones (and two largest), for instance, were done by 2500 BCE, far before any historical or biblical record of Israelites in Egypt (the Bible puts Jacob entering Egypt at around 1928 BCE – by then over 60% of the major known pyramids were already built).
Hey, that burning bush wasn’t invisible!
“which is that being a Black man in America is the ne plus ultra of oppression, and therefore anybody else claiming victimhood needs to be told why they aren’t as disadvantaged or marginalized as himself.”
100% facts, and it is also the same reason you don’t see Dave punching down on indigenous americans. It is really unfortunate that Jewish and people in the LGBQT+ community think they have it so bad, and are incapable of acknowledging that other groups have historically have had it worse in America.
Chappelle has straight-up said in some bits that, essentially, other marginalized groups in America need to line up behind Black people before they can air their grievances. I believe he said as much in the 2016 post-election show, in the context of feminism.
Chappelle has straight-up said in some bits that, essentially, other marginalized groups in America need to line up behind Black people before they can air their grievances. I believe he said as much in the 2016 post-election show, in the context of feminism.Just wait until Chappelle realizes that there are black WOMEN, too! Oh, and that women have been on the receiving end of society’s bullshit across the globe, regardless of race, for as long as humans have existed! I look forward to his revelatory comedy special, probably on Netflix.
He…does?Like, have you ever watched a Chappelle standup, or do you exclusively know of him from breathless recaps that remove all context in favor of isolated soundbites?
I like this comment. I will use it to jump on a landmine. I’m sure someone could use an excuse to yell at a stranger on the internet today.There are some talking points that derive from good manners and an inclusive perspective that are, on the face of it, not true. We are obligated to repeat these talking points, or else we are failures of being inclusive ourselves. The influence of the Jewish community in multiple spheres of industry and the variances within the trans community are two of them. What I like about these two examples is they are polar opposites around the concept of homogeneity. The idea that jews – as a group – are up to something is ludicrous. The idea that we have subtle biases towards others in the world around us who we share identity with is absolutely true. The problem is when we vilify the “others”, not when people get a leg up in the world because they have religious relationships they can leverage in other spaces.Flip the script. ALL WOMEN ARE WOMEN is a rallying cry to punch through the horrific regimen of anti-trans policies and anti-trans abuse and crime. Thing is, the way I’ve always seen it is that “lets re-sort people into the same cis buckets” is completely antithetical to what transness is. Trans and cis women both lose something with this mandated sameness, but transwomen also benefit in visibility and can be inclined to cling to it. I’m only genderqueer and am happy to present as cis day to day because I really just can’t be bothered with having a visible identity outside the home (like of any kind, I dress in the most neutral, milquetoast way possible). So I get to skip all the bad and enjoy all the things I hold dear in this space. Others are not nearly so lucky. But “all women are women” is just silly…but when you vilify the “other” and go peak-TERF, it perpetuates the silent assassination of so many identities and the literal death of people in the margins.
(And is it just me or is there a robust wave of new, young, genderqueer people who are just noping out of the “trans movement” and just skipping this whole drama entirely to live their best lives?)I believe both of these paragraphs are straight-up thoughtcrimes in the modern world. I would loose my sneaker-deal if I had one. I’m ….still pretty confident I’m correct about them.
I think the problem people have with your view (or more the way you present it) is you do so as a logic problem where everything is a zero-sum game. It misses the entire problem in the debate which is a lack of empathy or willingness to look for empathy. It’s the desire to score points off the other guy, to reduce it down to, “this group feels comparable things to that group because x maps onto y…”.
When you present arguments that way you’re taking that desired empathy and twisting it into a cudgel to dismiss someone else’s viewpoint. It takes the language of understanding and turns it into an aggressive statement akin to, “I see your struggle but I struggle with something which I will declare as similar and as I have a solution which worked for me, your unwillingness to apply the same solution means your concerns are whining.”
Empathy is trying to understand what the other person is feeling and where they’re coming from, not examining their viewpoint thoroughly enough to dismantle it.
This makes sense.I genuinely feel like I have huge amounts of empathy AND sympathy for this concept, these people, and this movement. But I get told to say things I don’t want to say and think things I don’t think. I accept that the problem might be me, in this scenario. But I interrogate this internally often, and I keep coming up with the same outcomes.Now its very low stakes, I’m just a very nice person who is very open minded. The stakes are a lot higher in other arenas. And because I can “pass” (opposite gendered partner, three lovely kids, very cliché) I realize I’m not just on the sidelines but I’m up in the cheap seats.I’m not sure how else to unpack all this baggage except by doing what you say I’m doing. And I either unpack the baggage and learn something new, or I shut up and talk the “party line” – which I mostly do. It there a third option? I’m currently blind to it.
“But I get told to say things I don’t want to say and think things I don’t think.”
Well, we’ve found the REAL oppressed victim here.
And if it wasn’t clear: fuck you.
“But I interrogate this internally often, and I keep coming up with the same outcomes.”
Ah yes, but the “I’m a good person, so my shitty, anti-semitic thoughts CAN’T be shitty and anti-semitic” argument.
You’re not a good person.
I think your response is pretty good because it’s apparent you care and are listening but maybe let go of the idea there’s a “party line” or any other implication there’s this big, organized cabal looking for victims or to score points.
Now I’m entirely speculating here, but I think part of the problem is you’re looking for a deep, nuanced discussion by dissecting opposed political and ideological statements. The thing is those are never intended to be accurate statements. They aren’t “intended” to be anything. They evolved from tweets, campaign speeches, people arguing on news segments, formal and informal debates, family arguments, and political messaging machines. They’re used because they’re the most convincing statements of and arguments for the core beliefs people hold. They’re slogans that represent a personal belief and a desire to take a moral stand. When you try to break them down logically or for humor, it misses the point (though for humor that can sometimes be the point) because the statements are representative of a larger ideal, not the ideal itself.
The result is you feel like you’re being attacked for not following a party line. Which is a fair feeling because you are. But the reason you’re being attacked is you’re arguing against the party line which is representative of the whole point. More importantly, your attempt to be nuanced is going to be indistinguishable from people asking the exact same question who are being intentionally hostile instead of looking for reasonable discussion.
Is it correct? No. But it’s like arguing with someone saying America is the “Land of the Free” because there are people in prison or someone saying “God is Good” because bad things happen to good people. At best you come across as pedantic. At worst, it looks like an attempt to troll or another bad faith attack. I’m not saying you shouldn’t question those positions. I’m just saying that when you do so, you aren’t questioning a single statement. You’re challenging an entire intellectual and emotional edifice of belief and one that someone may see as a core part of their identity.I’ve learned the only way I’ve ever been able directly question a hot button issue is by coming at an oblique angle. Ask questions that people don’t normally ask. If you want people to reconsider an issue, you won’t get there following the same well-worn path. Interrogate how people feel, not whether their position is logically sound. Remember at the end, the point is to come to greater understanding in the hope of finding a common path forward, not to vanquish your foe. Even the points that feel irreconcilable are that way because we’ve been forced into false dichotomies. Government vs. business, guns vs. criminals, straight vs. queer, guns vs. tyranny, black vs. white, guns vs. aliens (I may be showing my own bias a bit). None of those are explicit opposites except in the bizarre cultural funhouse we live in.
This has been my incredibly pretentious, rambling, and entirely-out-of-my-ass TED talk.
“(And is it just me or is there a robust wave of new, young, genderqueer people who are just noping out of the “trans movement” and just skipping this whole drama entirely to live their best lives?)“I say kudos to genderqueer people for quickly learning what senior citizens have been yelling for years is true, “Social Media, eh? Who needs it! Just go outside and live!” This would probably also be right before they say something generationally racist.
What evidence do you have that Jews would sacrifice good business sense just to secretly promote other Jews. No one objects to saying that a lot of Jews work in a particular field, if that happens to be true. But why is that interesting or noteworthy? Does it mean that Jews are in fact using their secret Jew power to hurt non-Jews like Kanye and Kyrie and Chappelle? Why not apply the same logic about women and poor victim Kevin Spacey and Bill Cosby?
What evidence do you have that Jews would sacrifice good business sense just to secretly promote other Jews.None. Because I didn’t say that, nor do I think it.
I’m in a similar boat where my genderqueer ass keeps their head down hoping to not attract attention so I don’t get killed or threatened or etc etc. I think some of the weight on the Millenial and Gen Xer trans person is that they are required to be activists and forge the path which is tiring and compounds onto everything else. I think the Zoomer and younger Millenials are not getting as much of that burden shoved on them. Which is good. They can choose it if they want.
As a Black man he can only punch up. Chapelle has always been clear his LGBTQ+ jokes are at white LGBTQ+ members.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32345113/Considering the suicide rates of transgender youth, I think it’s hard to make the case of any demographic group being more victimized than this one. I think success has gone to Chappelle’s head, and that he and other cis people need to just stop making trans jokes unless they have a very, very, specific reason to do so.
Considering the suicide rates of transgender youth, I think it’s hard to make the case of any demographic group being more victimized than this one.The actual problem is trying to make any such case at all, for any group.Because then it saps focus from the “we’re victims of this system” line of thought and channels it into the “shut up, I’ve got it worse than you” mentality.That’s exactly how the system perpetuates itself. Divide and conquer.We shouldn’t be arguing about who’s got it worse, we should instead be agreeing we all have it pretty bad and should stick it up the asses of those who are keeping us like that.
It’s not clear to me that he even thinks they should stop complaining. Even when he says it as bluntly as “they should stop complaining” it’s hard for me to read his protest as sincere. What is clear is that he will take those complaints as an occasion to use the comparative device you have described to make fun of the complainers at least, and usually as a point of departure for making fun of everyone, including himself. Public discourse is generally dominated by two types of people: those who earn money through public speech and those trying to use public speech to influence behavior broadly. Chappelle is very clearly in the first camp and very clearly makes a living by commenting on those in the second camp. Does he act with indifference or at very least ignorance of how his speech might in fact impact behavior broadly? For sure. All public speakers (Internet commenters like myself included) act at very least in ignorance of, and therefore with a degree of practical indifference to, the broad effects of their speech. The question we usually evaluate when discussing responsibility is whether a person intends an outcome or at very least should reasonably be expected to anticipate an outcome directed by one’s speech. I suspect that while Chappelle does expect his speech to offend some folks he doesn’t expect it to alter their behavior other than potentially to cause them to play a role in directing money his way. Is this ignorant of him? Of course it is. All expectations are based on ignorance. All that we know is that we are fallible but haven’t yet been so wrong that it’s killed us. Pretending to knowledge is a dangerous game potentially instigated through any utterance discernable as speech. But when it’s not destroying something it can almost always be the cause of laughter. Sometimes even when it is destroying something. Laughter is one way we cope with the certainty that we don’t know what we’re doing. Suffering is a frequent source of that certainty.
I have to say: bravo. A theme account dedicated to genuine acts of sophistry is some fucking avant garde shit, and for that you should be commended. I don’t know what it cost you time-and/or-soul-wise to publicly abuse the discipline of epistemology in that way, but I think it’s worth it.
Ironically, the few readers who will appreciate the reference to Sophists are also the readers likely most capable of reading something and thinking that they have therefore come to know something: people who have invested a large chunk of their experience in reading. I chose this name for the same reason that Plato chose to portray Socrates as the smartest person in the conversation while also describing several scenes in which we have good reason to suspect that Socrates may be motivated by something other than a love of wisdom. For example, in The Lysis we see Socrates using his typical method for deconstructing the Sophists’ claims to knowledge. But rather than directing this method towards discovering the truth, in the Lysis Socrates reveals how it can be used to seduce and control. Why would Plato portray his philosophical hero as a psychological manipulator? The same reason that he uses that hero to debase the Sophists – he wants his readers to learn to think for themselves, not merely to learn to identify the smartest speaker in a dialectic and to submit to that speaker’s thoughts. So I have chosen this internet persona to remind those of my readers most at risk for confusing reading with learning not to simply submit to my thoughts on the basis that they are better articulated than others or reveal intellectual preparation that might be intimidating or otherwise impressive. I’m glad to see it’s working in your case. But if you have sincere dialectical intentions, then perhaps you will answer two basic questions. Second, in what way have I abused epistemology? First (more fundamentally), what can it mean to abuse epistemology? I’m guessing that you are referring to epistemology as the body of literature reflecting on the possibility of knowledge as variously defined. Are you suggesting that I am misusing this body of literature? How do you distinguish between good and bad uses of this body of literature? I invite you to make your contribution to this dialectic that we may be enlightened by your insights.
Not that I’m offended by the allegation of epistemological abuse I just find it interesting and want to read more about it🤣
No one needs to be told why they’re less disadvantaged bc there’s people out there who aren’t. You can acknowledge both when there’s a time & place for them. That’s like saying I’m depressed but there’s people with terrible lives in the world and my depression is less depressed/of value than others. You don’t ever need to compare & bring down the value of an issue by doing so. Sorry but no. Jewish hate crimes are the highest of any minority in the US btw. Antisemitism has exploded 200-300% globally in the last 5 years. There’s an ingrained lasting racism against Jews for thousands of years, and the news doesn’t even cover half of the crimes that are happening & only very very recently bringing any of it to light.Comparism has no place here and frankly, if he wanted to compare, he and Kanye are rich and entitled so yeah, they have it way easier than a lot of people.
I think this is exactly it. Although, and I’m speaking as a Black man, a lot of Black people have long held beliefs or believed conspiracy theories about Jewish control or pulling the strings behind the scenes. I never got why but its always there. Nothing he said last night was antisemitic though. What we are seeing in real time however is an attempt to cancel him for something, anything sine they couldn’t cancel him for his “anti trans” stand up (which wasnt).But I do have to say that while there may be some similarities in the way Trans, Jewish and Black people are treated, it doesn’t go beyond discrimination and hate. Trans people collectively have had gains in the last 10 years that Black people took decades to achieve. And while Jews face discrimination, they’ll always have White privilege to fall back on. It may not be something anyone wants to acknowledge but its the truth.
It’s a ridiculous idea to think that Jews “control things.” It is not a ridiculous idea to think that people of groups of any kind favor people who are also from those groups. Again, that doesn’t mean “Jews run Hollywood” but it may mean a Jewish producer may favor a Jewish director. Which is of course a human tendency that ultimately leads to minorities being edged out because white people favoring white people. But we’ve all seen African Americans; Mormons; Boy Scouts; women; Kappa Kappa Kappas; Marvel fans; Gujaratis; Republicans; Gay Republicans; board gamers; etc. do it. Institutions need to keep this in mind and act accordingly one way or another.What Kanye (and others) was talking about is a racist distortion of this and here is Chappelle seemingly actively trying to alienate every last one of his fans.
Have you watched the Chappelle bit, or just read the AVC’s recap of it, which actively misconstrues one of his statements, which was, LITERALLY, that the fact that a whole lot of Jewish people are involved in show biz doesn’t actually mean they “control it” any more than black folks control Ferguson, MI.
“Nothing he said last night was antisemitic though.”
Yes. It absolutely fucking was.
Well said!
This is exactly what I’ve always thought: Chappelle sees himself as the gold medal winner of the suffering olympics so he has a “right” to punch down as much as he wants. He actually said in his last special that trans people should stop picking on him.
Everyone wants the crown of suffering these days. Donald Trump somehow claimed unprecedented persecution while also being the most powerful human on earth.
Which is why he kicks a guy’s arm into smithereens and then joked about him being trans, right?
Um, are you referring to the incident in which Chappelle was violently attacked on stage by a man carrying a knife, and the attacker was then beaten up by members of the audience (not Chappelle)?
Won’t someone think of the violent nutjob whose currently on trial for a separate instance of attempted murder????
That guy identifies as bi, clearly he had no choice but to threaten a comedian’s life for telling jokes he didn’t like! I’m sure he was also forced to stab his roommate for making transphobic comments.The real crime is that Chappelle made a joke about the attacker being a trans man after surviving an attempt on his life.
Are you talking about the guy who attacked him on stage, and had a knife?
If Chappelle’s worldview is that African-Americans are the most oppressed people in the world, then he’s both wrong and arguably not funny.
For a comedian with material about the real-world that’s just dumb.
Idpol is a very stupid zero sum game. Fuck him.
It feels like all the white people who tell black people to shut up because racism is over. Dave and Ye are acting like since some Jewsih people are powerful, that there is no real anti semitism. Someone defaced Jewish graves with Swastikas, yesterday!
Yeah. Man, it must be tough to be worth a couple hundred million dollars. It’s just like the holocaust.
But Mary, your co-worker who reviewed this episode thought it was both thought-provoking *and* provocative. And gave Dave a nod as the highlight of the evening….I dunno, maybe you should have a chat with Trae? Perhaps fire them?
You guys are taking it too far with the Chappelle hate. Guys is OBVIOUSLY not anti-trans/anti-jew. He’s a comedian and the best at it. He’s got gay and jew friends. I’m as leftist as one can be and i hate the way the left is destroying comedy as a whole.
Ah yes I’m sure someone who says “Jew friends” is totally a leftist.
Totally…
If he were a leftist, he’d say “Zionist friends.”
This comment section is full of (almost certainly white, male, cis, Christian) Devoted Liberals defending “The Jews,” haha.Surefire sign they don’t know any Jewish people.
you seem nice
Thank you.People who refer to Jewish people as “Jews” creep me the fuck out, even when they’re ostensibly “defending” them.
I get that. But you also said “they don’t know any Jewish people” as if that matters.
I don’t know any Uyghers but I can still be appalled by how others treat them. Your logic would doubt my sincerity because I don’t know any personally or if I don’t write Uygher correctly. Apparently I’d also be a Devoted Liberal then too, though I’m not sure if you’re being sarcastic or mocking American Liberals. Another example of how comment sections like this aren’t great at conveying precise meaning and intentions.
It’s sad that people liked what he once did so much that they still think he’s not only great, but the greatest.His entire career since coming back has been lazy and pandering, riding a wave of ignorance, ego, and resentment, partly fuelled by people afraid to admit their hero has one trick in his bag and not much else.
Bullshit. He IS still great. Thats why people (at least the ones who arent crazy leftist assholes attacking him for woke points) still support him.
And your comment reveals exactly why many other fans are okay with his bigotry….because they share it.Congrats. He, too, is a shitty person.
Its not bigotry. And no, he’s not.
Because all the “the left is destroying comedy as a whole” and “crazy leftist assholes attacking him for woke points” hyperbole supposedly sounds sane…
“Bullshit. He IS still great. Thats why people (at least the ones who arent crazy leftist assholes attacking him for woke points) still support him.”
People still went to Gallagher shows until he died.
Attendance is not evidence of anything except that people want to go out.
I’m not sure if you’re talking about Ye or Chappelle. And that is not a joke.
“I’m as leftist as one can be-”Ron Howard Voice: “He wasn’t.”
“Jewish”. When used as an adjective, the word is “Jewish”, and it is capitalised. I’m picking on that point, because the “he’s got friends in this group therefore he can’t be prejudiced against them” bit is too ball-achingly stupid to engage with.
Could you comment that on all the folks angrily defending “The Jews” from Chappelle’s mockery of Kyrie and Kanye’s idiocy and racism up above, haha?I’m gray, and it does need to be said.
Here’s a little tip for the next time you pretend to be a “leftist” online. We don’t actually refer to ourselves as leftist, thats your guy’s buzzword. We say progressive or liberal.
The comedy entertainment industry is doing fine. Probably better now than any point in the past.
Comedians still make comedy about anything they want. But tastes change over time so you probably won’t see current acts doing, for example, Benny Hill-type antics. Less audience for that means less income for the comedian.
This isn’t “destroying comedy as a whole”. It’s not even destroying Benny Hill’s work, which can still be seen on YouTube and DVD. Comedians need to go where the money is, just like any other artist that wants to be successful.
When someone says “I’m as leftist as one can be…” you know you’re about to hear the most MAGA-ass opinion you’ve heard all day. It’s just another version of “I’m not racist, but…”
Youre using too much common sense for these people.
He sure does say a lot of transphobic and antisemitic things for someone who isn’t “anti-trans” and “anti-jew”
lol
“Guys is OBVIOUSLY not anti-trans/anti-jew.”
Well, I guess everyone is wrong because some pathetic twat is defending Chappelle.
do you think you’re fooling anybody?
Look at all my Jews, Blacks and Gays
Meanwhile the white supremacists who really control everything just sit back and watch the marginalized groups fight each other.
shhh…Pay no attention to the man(wearing the hood) behind the curtain.
Yep. The real winner of the Oppression Olympics is the political right.
The only winning move is to not play
It took me until I was almost this many years old to really grok that all of human history is essentially a tiny power elite doing everything they can to grab as much power for themselves while keeping everyone else under their control. Civilization has been around a long time and they’ve come up with a lot of really effective tools for doing it. Pitting marginalized groups against each other is an ancient tactic; so is convincing the public that it’s right and good for the elite to steal so much of their labor that the public doesn’t have time to pay attention to how they’re doing it.All of this, in essence, is us being distracted by the symptoms of the problem, and not the root cause.
In fairness…most of the backlash I’ve seen towards the monologue has been from white, WASPy neckbeards on Twitter, rather than, y’know, Jewish people.Anecdotally (as the token goy in quite a lot of different friend groups, who worked at summer camps and went to a school with a similar makeup to Brandeis) my Jewish friends thought the set was pretty fucking funny, because he was clearly mocking Kanye and Kyrie’s engagement with ludicrous conspiracy theories, while calling attention to the difference in material consequences when a public figure says something hateful and horrific against a group that presents as white.
This very post is literally the god damned ADL. You know. America’s oldest and most reputable Jewish civil rights organization is saying that yes, this was antisemitism. It was as the clasdic antisemitic technique, as Jewish comedian Hannah Hienbinder explained, “two truths and lie.”Jesus fucking Christ. Hundreds of famous Jewish thinkers are expressing dismay at this casual and popular antisemitism and you fucking people do this “it’s neck beards on the internet” and “my Jewish friends” anecdotal bullshit.
The ADL is an important organization that does a lot of great work.I also have enough Armenian and Palestinian friends not to treat their word as gospel…especially in the context of an artist whose oeuvre consists of feigning engagement with racist tropes in order to ruthlessly savage anyone who takes them seriously.His “defense” of Kyrie ends with him calling Kyrie a fucking Holocaust denier, haha!
And if we’re citing “Famous Jewish Thinkers,” as well as notorious genocide deniers, I’d go with the Jason Stanley quote from a couple days ago:“Not all humor is dangerous normalization; some of it is just funny, and we Jewish people should know that.”
All the backlash is always from white, WASPy neckbeards on Twitter. How many trans people even are there?
Well… I walked in expecting transphobia, it was subtly still there, but I mostly got antisemitism and a rich man defending two other rich men who are angry they are worth less because of there own stupidity. Dave, maybe don’t defend someone who adored Hitler and who doesn’t believe the holocaust ever happened because of a weirdo cult he’s in.
Who do you think he defended?
He quite obviously defended Kanye and Kyrie. His only critique of them was that they shouldn’t have said out loud what they think about Jews, not that their opinions were wrong. Oh yeah, he also admonished Jewish people for punishing them so harshly!
…those were jokes. He told jokes. He didn’t defend anyone…he took advantage of the opportunity to mine it for material.
Yeah!!!!!!“Kyrie had nothing to do with the Holocaust. In fact, he’s not sure it even happened” really is a vociferous defense of the man’s behavior!!!!!
Idk, I watched it when it aired…just watched it again. He reminded us that Kyrie is a flat earth believer and a holocaust denier…I fail to see how that is in any way a defense. Is that how you would defend someone? Please don’t ever defend me. He also very specifically stated he did not come to Kanyes defense this time and denounced his actions…while also making jokes at Kanyes expense. Again, really a stretch to call that a defense.
“His only critique of them was that they shouldn’t have said out loud what they think about Jews”No it wasn’t, you are like a child that chooses to hear what aligns with your point and ignores all else.
According to the New York Times, Dave mocked and ridiculed Kanye. I think its very odd that you and some others would internalize the monologue as a defense, when it was the opposite. It shows a complete lack of critical thinking skills.
New York times headline :
On ‘Saturday Night Live,’ Dave Chappelle Mocks Kanye and KyrieIn his monologue, the comic channeled antisemitic myths as he ridiculed Kanye West and Kyrie Irving.
Like, he literally called Kyrie a Holocaust denier!
HAHA YES he triggered people!! There’s literally nothing more important.
And somehow the AV Club gave the ep a positive review. Fascinating
It’s not too hard to get ‘condemned’ by the ADL for a joke that involves Jewish people or Jewish culture. Just ask Larry David, Seth Macfarlane, Rob Reiner, Joan Rivers, Michael Che, Trevor Noah, and Sacha Baron Cohen.
Its extremely sad when people freak out about antisemitism coming from black people but don’t take any time to try and understand why antisemitism is so pervasive in black communities. Complain complain complain before you ever take chance to understand and change. ugh, twitter leftists are the worst.
Can you elaborate? Antisemitism (which is pervasive everywhere) can be pervasive specifically in black communities because of the Nation of Islam and the awful scapegoating conspiracy theories they propagated.
People overestimate the influence of the Nation of Islam. There’s nothing unique about their existence in our society which has always had anti-Semitism.IDK why everytime a black person says something anti-Semitic, everyone starts pearl-clutching and wondering why is there “a divide between the black and Jewish communities? Didn’t Jewish rabbis march with Dr. King??”It’s ridiculous. We know that the biggest threat (both presently and historically) to Jewish people have, and will always be, white Christian nationalism. No one ever asks random white people how they feel when a white supremacist burns down a synagogue. There’s never a “Damn, why can’t white Christians and Jewish people ever see eye-to-eye”.Black people get held to a higher standard in this country because we have to constantly validate our right to be seen as full-fledged citizens in this country. White people, as a whole, never have to be held accountable for random white a-holes even though way more of them are actual threats to the lives of Jewish people.
“White people, as a whole, never have to be held accountable for random white a-holes even though way more of them are actual threats to the lives of Jewish people.”
And people are holding DAVE CHAPPELLE accountable for what DAVE CHAPPELLE said, so that has nothing to do with your whataboutism horseshit.
Or it’s because the story we’re talking about is literally about a black player sharing a movie that peddles conspiracy theories specifically from NoI?
It’s from a Black Hebrew Israelite, an even smaller and more irrelevant sect of Black reactionaries.
They’re not irrelevant! They have a legitimate impact especially on young black men. My friend’s dad teaches AA studies and was a Farrakhan guy for years before he mellowed and realized it was playing into white supremacy. I get that NoI’s time has generally passed as a major, populous organization (they’re only 2 % of black Muslims currently) but Farrakhan and co’s impact is undeniable. In this instance both Kanye and Kyrie, the two people Chappelle is mentioning, shared baseless conspiracy theories, and Chappelle has played into them before as well in his routines.And no one’s comparing it to white people. Yes, white people and black people are anti-Semitic, but the reasons are different, and that’s important so we learn how to go forward. To be honest, I don’t care that white people are anti-Semitic – black people and Jewish people are natural allies and it’s more important in my opinion to bridge that gap than with some country bumpkins in Mississippi who think Jews have horns and tails. And yes, part of that is that plenty of Jews are racist! But you have to acknowledge the reality to move forward, and Farrakhan and NoI and all these offshoots, even if they’re small, have an outsize impact – it’s why it keeps coming up, and it’s why the three very famous, very influential men we’re talking about here all are peddling some form of the same shit.
Young black men do not care about Louis Farrakhan. It’s Jay Electronica (46), Jay Z (52), and Freddie Gibbs (40) who are prominent black men who talk about Louis Farrakhan and the NOI. None of them are young. Even Kyrie (who once again was recommending a doc from an Hebrew Israelite NOT a NOI member) is 30. The only young black men who have any interaction with the NOI would be in the case they ran into one while they were imprisoned which I think is a worthy topic to explore (i.e. the only black men that can be recruited to join their group are literally the most disenfranchised, abused, desperate people in our country) but even that to me is more about our prison industrial complex and less about the attractiveness of the NOI.I’m not defending Kyrie, Kanye, or Chappelle. I’m just saying there is nothing unique about them and they don’t represent black people (or young black men, specifically) as a whole. Now, they could influence younger black men because they’re celebrities which is why it’s important to call them out. But, to try to extrapolate from three rich egotistical dumbasses (who have spent their entire careers making sure you know they’re not like other black people) some sort of concerning communal trend is ridiculous and unfair. We need to get back to reading Hannah Arendt and Umberto Eco when it comes to trying to understand the systemic, institutional forces that allow and propagate anti-Semitic fervor. Not scapegoating black men or Southerners (which is the other easy white liberal scapegoat to act as if they’re not complicit in white supremacy even though the most popular anti-Semite of the the last decade, Richard Spencer, was from Boston).
You’re misunderstanding me – I’m not saying Farrakhan or NoI is popular – I even acknowledged that NoI is a very small percentage of Black Muslims. I’m saying his influence can be felt still, and many of the conspiracy theories that have become popularized again with the rise of web 2.0 are those that he propagated. Sure young people may never have heard of him or NoI but they’re spewing similar antisemitic rhetoric because of how influential it was.I’m not scapegoating black men or Southerners. I’m just as uninterested in courting northern white anti-Semites. My whole point was we need to bridge the gap because Jews and black people are allies, and Farrakhan really tried to poison that well alongside Jewish racists.And honestly it’s frustrating that you use the word scapegoating when that’s historically been THE thing that happens to Jews. My whole point here is that Jews are used as a scapegoat for black people by white supremacists and have been aided in that by useful assholes like Farrakhan.
It’s just ridiculous that black people get roped up in these conversations in ways that no other group has to do. Because we have three random a-holes say something anti-Semitic, now it’s a call to arms for black people and Jewish people to bridge the gap. Now?? I’m all for coalition building but can we get evidence that this specific coalition is necessary moreso than any other coalition is a bunch of self-righteous hand wringing nonsense. No one held white people responsible for Aaron Rodgers vaccine dodging escapades a season ago so why is Kyrie the Avatar of all young black men? Didn’t a bunch of (young) black organizers help elect Jon Ossoff, Georgia’s first Jewish senator, in 2020 and he now holds the seat that was once held by the illustrious John Lewis? Aren’t black people as a group less likely to vote for the far right, reactionary candidates pushed by the Republican party who revel in white supremacist, christian nationalist rhetoric?But, because one dumbass can’t admit that he’s wrong, another refuses to seek help during a breakdown, and another is such a egotistical prick that he thinks he can qualify anti-Semitism, then that means the black community and Jewish community need to renew their coalition bonds?? This is a distraction.
Aaron Rodgers was representative of a specific type of Joe Rogan white dudebro. A number of our dumbass elected officials are representative of the white Evangelical cultists who pose the greatest threat to our current society. Ben Shapiro is representative of a sect of Jewish zionist conservatives who are useful idiots for the Right. And yes, Kyrie, Kanye, and Chappelle, and Desean Jackson, and Nick Cannon, and Ice Cube, and Diddy, are representative of a sect of black men who spout antisemitic conspiracy nonsense alongside misogynistic and homophobic rhetoric. No it’s not THE problem, but it’s A problem, and people can focus on multiple things at once. With Kanye and Chappelle (less so Kyrie), these are two insanely powerful celebrities with massive followings and that’s a big problem. And again, I’m talking about a sect of black men. I’m not saying this is something black people are responsible for, just like I wouldn’t want to be held responsible for Ben Shapiro or Netanyahu. But we have to call out this rhetoric for what it is, and acknowledge it has an outsize impact on people!
Then call those groups out specifically. Let’s apply the nuance that we use when discerning Rogan fanboys and Shapiro stans with Black Hebrew Israelites (like Nick Cannon or possibly Kyrie if we believe he actually watched that 3 hour movie), NOI members (like Ice Cube, Desean Jackson, maybe Diddy), a grifter (I mean “black conservative”) like Kanye, or a contrarian dipsh-t like Chappelle.But, let’s not throw all black people under the bus or even specifically young black men. These people are outliers of outliers within our community. There’s no epidemic of black anti-Semitism, anti-Semitism is rising everywhere and we should address the social and systemic reasons for that specifically within these anti-Semitic communities.But, as long as Tucker Carlson, Matt Walsh, Laura Ingraham spout white supremacist b.s. to a much larger (and actually receptive audience since, once again, most black people do not care about what Kanye or Kyrie think of Jewish people) there is more important work to be done.
Do tell. Without excusing it…?
So… you want antisemitism to be understandable?
It’s extremely sad when people discriminate. Let’s stop that first before worrying about twitter.
What you’re apparently trying to say is “It’s sad people think being anti-Semitic isn’t justified.”
“Its extremely sad when people freak out about antisemitism coming from black people but don’t take any time to try and understand why antisemitism is so pervasive in black communities.”
Nah. It’s sad that white shitheels have convinced Black people that Jewish people are the problem.
You can fuck ALL THE WAY off.
We do know. Its because black people are racists. Most of them only give a shit about themselves and that becomes obvious any time Da Root has an article on any minority in this country that isnt black.
Honestly the best episode of SNL in quite some time, which isn’t saying much but I actually laughed multiple times which is pretty rare when watching SNL now. Bringing back the Player Haters was very unexpected but worth it.
I’m moving to Mars. Sign me up
Most Goyim Are Anti-Semites: News at 11
I’m sure if people exercised their freedom of speech to criticize Black Muslims and Islam that Dave would be super forgiving and not thin-skinned at all.
If they did so within the context of being a standup and crafting material, yes…he would be. This wasn’t a TED Talk.
I bet he would be.
Dave making a Mohammed joke would truly be brave if he enjoys having his head attached to his neck that is.
As they should. Chappelle has nothing important to say anymore and is so whiny. Just another rich asshole. Hopefully he’ll just slink away and do some open mic’s in Yellow Springs for the rest of his life.
So you are allowed to say what you say about Chappelle but Chappelle and others are not permitted to say such things about other individuals and groups?
Are you seriously equating an anonymous comment that only exists here and the huge fucking megaphone someone like Chapelle has? Come on, no one is that stupid.
Yes
Why?
With all due respect, Fuck the ADL.
Racism, antisemitisim, isn’t a state of being. There’s this logic that if I can see non-racism in a person, then they aren’t “racist”. The reality is that it’s about actions, which have consequences.There’s just so much narcissism to deal with regarding all these guys pushing this garbage, including Chappelle, that’s it’s difficult to get across the argument that you’re accountable for your actual actions more than your intentions and how you’re just being true to yourself and innocent of everything in your own eyes. It’s difficult to get across the idea that we live in a shared reality and not just our own heads.
making jokes about kanye for being derogatory to jews is itself derogatory to jews?
When the joke is basically that Kanye is right, there are a lot of Jewish people working in entertainment who conspire against him, and he was just not smart enough to keep it quiet and “pretend it’s a coincidence”, then yes.
No, saying anti-semitic things is derogatory to Jewish people.
If you misunderstand the joke. Then yes.
I guess this means we can stop talking about Matt Perry’s book.
Not while Keanu Reeves walks among us, we can’t.
So, wait, are we saying that Keanu Reeves has to die in order for them to stop talking about Perry’s book? Maybe we can rules-lawyer the situation and just cripple him so he has to use a wheelchair. Then he won’t technically be walking among us, but he’ll still be alive, and we’ll get to stop hearing about Perry.Note: I do not endorse crippling Keanu Reeves.
What is one single group of people out of the thousands of different groups of people on earth so militantly and fanatically protected and precious that they can not be spoken of in public without being victims of a hate crime? While bashing mormons or scientologists or Mexicans or Americans or thousands of other groups is ok and not bigotry but this one special group is way out of bounds?
It seems to me that most persons and groups who have power and control things do not want to be in the spotlight. Ultra competent people often get persecuted because of the advantage they might have naturally or have earned and worked for by the less competent citizenry.
an·ti-Sem·i·tismhostility to or prejudice against Jewish people.What is the special catchy buzzword for “hostility and prejudice against” any of the other 223+ groups or non jewish individuals on earth?
fuck Dave Chappelle and all his apologists
Who are we allowed to say what you posted here to and who are we not allow to say this to?
No, fuck you. And Hamilton is delightful.
For those of you wondering if his comments were anti-Semitic, the ADL SPECIFICALLY exists to point out when something is anti-Semitic. They don’t speak for all Jews, but they speak for a LOT of Jews. Their entire existence is based on calling out Anti-Semitism. The people who work there are media professionals who know more about Anti-Semitism than any of us ever will. You may not agree with them, but you have to deeply consider their view as being at least partially valid.
“Nah, mean leftie wokists.” —Scum.
think its more like “leftie wokists=scum.”
Even if you think adhering to “leftie wokism” (which is more often than not common courtesy and empathy in action) indicates someone is scum, I strongly advise taking a look at the far right. Wokism can come off as too earnest and strident to some, but at least it’s well-intentioned. Far right philosophies are just people being selfish, cruel assholes.
I do not “have to” anything.
ADL leader has outright said anti Zionism is anti Semitism so excuse us if not everyone believes they should be the arbiter of what is anti Semitic.
“For those of you wondering if his comments were anti-Semitic
Nobody wonders if they were.
Unfortunately, the ADL has a really bad track record with comedians. It doesn’t mean much as a comedian to have the ADL make a comment about one of your jokes. They have even come after many Jewish comedians for making Jewish jokes.
Did we all forget what Dave Chappelle’s comedy was like, in the years after he left his show to get buff and religion? Because not much has changed…just the public’s reaction to it, apparently. Seriously, go back and watch it again.All this talk of “punching down”, or “anti-this” or “anti-that” rhetoric, is more indicative of a societal shift, than a tonal shift on his part. Like Carlin, Stanhope, Jeselnik, Jeffries and other shock comics, some offensive shit is going to be uttered. And guess what? Sometimes those most offended are the ones that need to hear it. And sometimes, a joke is in poor taste. But this implication that there is a line that cannot be crossed in comedy is puerile, puritanical nonsense. There is no line to cross.
Dave is sliding down the Transphobe-to-Racist pipeline faster than Mario finding a warp zone.
#KoopaLivesMatter
What kind of idiotic journalism, CLICKBAIT, is this, when Lorne Michaels, the HEAD os SNL is well known to be Jewish, or at least of Jewish decent?! Smfh
Anti-Semitism is alive and well in the halls of higher education. For example, Jason Harding, professor at Durham University, runs a Pinterest website where he has regularly posted sympathetic and humanizing photos of Nazi soldiers. With hundreds of humanizing photos, Harding sympathizes with the Nazi soldiers and Nazism over their victims. His research into T.S. Eliot normalizes Eliot’s anti-Semitism. Harding is a Nazi sympathizer and an anti-Semite, and he’s a British professor. Harding himself broke the nose of a Jewish woman, then refused to apologize for his unprovoked violent attack. He actually got away with assaulting a Jewish woman.
Why is this individual still being given a large public stage to air such unpleasant opinions? They’re just a tiresome, backward-looking pub bore, and are best treated as such, ie. ignored.
The article says Dave said “Jewish people ‘run the place’”. What he actually said was that there’s a lot of Jews in Hollywood but there’s a lot of Black people in Ferguson but it doesn’t mean they run the place. I guess you could maybe say that he was implying something but it seems wrong to quote it like they did.
I remember when AV club was a great place to read about your favourite shows and discuss them in the comments. Now it’s just a bunch of woke nonsense.
the most antisemitic part was when he blamed the Jews for people (including many who are not Jews) holding Kyrie accountable for his idiocy and said “you can’t blame that on black americans”…which is an even more bigoted version of “if you don’t hate gay people you’re gay!” and then, at the end, he said that he hopes the Jews don’t now take things away from him. Not the other people who don’t like bigots. So I guess anybody who wants to hold Dave Chappelle accountable for saying antisemitic things is now a Jew, congratulations.
Specifically, what is one single thing DC said in SNL monologue that was hostile or dishonestly prejudiced against THE JEWS?