Debra Winger says she quit A League Of Their Own after Madonna joined the cast
Geena Davis ended up replacing Winger, giving her yet another iconic role
Film News Debra Winger
One of Geena Davis’ most iconic roles is Dottie in A League Of Their Own, which (in addition to her role in Thelma & Louise) gave queer woman another character to fall for. But turns out Davis wasn’t supposed to star in the film initially. In a new interview with The Telegraph promoting her Apple TV+ show Mr. Corman, Debra Winger spoke about being cast as Dottie but quitting the film because she didn’t like that Madonna was cast as Mae.
Winger told The Telegraph that she trained with the Chicago Cubs for 3 months but as soon as she found out Madonna joined the production, she decided to leave the movie. At the time, she told director Penny Marshall that, with the singer in the movie, it was becoming “an Elvis film.”
“The studio agreed with me because it was the only time I ever collected a pay-or-play on my contract. In other words, I collected my pay even though I did not play, and that’s very hard to get in a court,” recalls Winger.
But she seemingly has no regrets about bowing out of A League Of Their Own, though. Winger doesn’t think it truly honored the real life women who were part of the Rockford Peaches. “As entertaining as [the final film] was, you don’t walk away going ‘Wow, those women did that.’ You kind of go ‘Is that true?,’” says the actor. She also says that Davis “did OK,” but was a bit cagey when it came to discussing her thoughts on Madonna’s acting, saying “I think [her] acting career has spoken for itself.”
Now, Amazon has an A League Of Their Own reboot series in the works, co-created by Mozart In The Jungle showrunner Will Graham and Broad City’s Abbi Jacobson. Jacobson is set to star, alongside Nick Offerman, Chanté Adams, D’Arcy Carden, Gbemisola Ikumelo (Brain In Gear), Kelly McCormack (The Neddeaus of Duqesne Island), Roberta Colindrez, and Priscilla Delgado. At least Winger can relax knowing Madonna won’t be in this version.
270 Comments
Hey, we over here dunking on Madonna’s movie career? ‘Cause I’m always up for that!
Nah, let’s try another day.
Is Madonna’s movie career mostly terrible? There’s a Body of Evidence to suggest that’s the case.
She was a real hound on Broadway.
Yes! We’ve Shanghai-d the thread. Surprise!!
She’s desperately seeking box office success.
But she was good in that one!
I think her movie career’s mostly been Swept Away.
W.E.? More like N.O.
Sounds like a real cool person.
Whenever John Lovitz not on screen,
all the other characters should be asking, “Where’s John Lovitz?”
He has the best line in the movie!
every line he says is the best line.
“I hate when they get attached to me like that.”
ACTING!
He looks perpetually 45, despite being around my age when this film was made
ACTING!
“So long, milkmaids” is a regular farewell in our house. That may be my favorite line of Lovitz’s in the film.
Buy my BOOK! BUY my BOOK! BUY my BOOK!
He ad-libbed “WILL YOU SHUT UP!” to the cow because it really wouldn’t stop mooing all day.
Such worthy improv skills.
yes, and…?
https://www.theonion.com/jon-lovitz-says-income-from-subway-commercials-allows-h-1819568512
She named herself after the worst hair metal band. Clearly this woman’s musical tastes are not to be trusted.
To be fair, she came up with that name when she was only seventeen…
She wanted to be “Debra Striker”, but there was somebody with a SAG card already using that name.
Striker? Striker? Striker?
There’s a SALE at PENNIES!!!
And Leon’s getting laarrgger.
What an asshole!
Not Debra Stryper?
Debra Stryker would’ve been a peak 90’s name
well, Debra Dokken woulda been pretty stupid.
Debratt, on the other hand, would have been awesome
We have Da Brat. Close enough?
For now.
Given her reputation?
Appropriate, too!
Dammit, take my star, you beautiful monster.
Dëbra Crüe
Wow, this seems extremely…petty. Madonna had a tiny role. Who gives a shit?
So Lori Petty is the Dr Claw in this situation, is what you’re saying.
Sorry, this one’s going right over my head.
There was a bunch of stuff cut out, IIRC (like more of a romance between Hanks and Davis), so Madonna might have had more to do initally.
Madonna might have had more to do initally.I’ve seen the cut material. She didn’t.
Even if that was true, she’s still at best, what, the fifth most important character in the movie.
The film did end up being entertaining and definitely put a spotlight on this unusual time in baseball for women. Whether Winger could have brought something different to the table, one thing is for sure. Gena Davis in the lead roll knocked it out of the park. And a genius bit of casting shepherded by Marshall was casting Lynn Cartwright as Davis’ older self. There was a lot of things right about this film and it’s why it has endured. Hanks, Davis, Petty, most definitely Megan Cavanagh, and yes O’Donnell and Madonna were fine in the outfield, they were fun to watch.The Elvis movie reference is funny, but Elvis never played sixth banana in any movie. As for Winger, she was a fine actress.
“There was a lot of things right about this film and it’s why it has endured. Hanks, Davis, Petty, most definitely Megan Cavanagh, and yes O’Donnell and Madonna were fine in the outfield, they were fun to watch.”And Lovitz. Lovitz is gold in this. My wife quotes his lines almost weekly.
Give the wife the old pickle tickle😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
The thing I love about that is that most of Lovitz’ best material in this movie was improvised. I’ve also heard that they left a TON of Lovitz’ storyline on the cutting room floor, which, honestly, was a good call – the finished film has just the right amount of Lovitz in it.
“Will you SHUT UP????”
Even though I saw a different name in the credits, I refused—nay, I STILL REFUSE—to believe that older Dottie was NOT Geena Davis in old person makeup.
I believe they dubbed her voice, which adds to the confusion.
I was sooooo confused by that when I saw the movie.
The fact that there was an established actress in her 60s, whose physique, facial features, and mannerisms were all an uncanny match for someone as recognizable as Geena Davis is absolutely wild.
That’s exactly what I thought, too!
God, they nailed the casting of all the older women! It was spooky how much they looked like the younger actresses.
I didn’t know that wasn’t Geena Davis in old makeup until just now!
The Elvis movie reference made me remember that old SNL sketch with Wayne Gretzky that was a parody of Elvis movies, where he played a singing, hockey-playing busboy and Jan hooks was Ann-Margret. I believe it was called “Waikiki Hockey”.
For all that some people cite that as an “athlete hosting badly” SNL episode, that sketch is great.
It’s right up there with Michael Jordan/Stuart Smalley, and Joe Montana going upstairs to masturbate.
“I hope I’m not disturbing them.”
I need to run and Google that.
And a genius bit of casting shepherded by Marshall was casting Lynn Cartwright as Davis’ older self.But dubbing was *so* terrible.
Geena Davis, former Olympian, and Tom Hanks was why I watched this in the cinema when it was released.
Winger’s never been shy about touting how above it all she is. Does anyone really think the movie would have been more historically important if she had deigned to be in it?
“Yeah, I am pretty above it.”
I don’t trust actors without any comedies at all in their resumes, somehow. It betrays a snooty attitude about “the craawwft!” This would have at least been one lighter entry in her catalog of tedious weepy melodramas.
Dying is easy, comedy is hard
Radio doesn’t count as a comedy?
She did try her hand at Stand-Up Comedy when she was starting out.
This… was a catastrophically bad career decision (she got her pay-or-play so maybe not that bad, but no one casts you for the roles you didn’t play). Based on silliness. Madonna’s role was pretty small. It’s not cameo-small, and she was definitely part of the draw for the film given that she was like the biggest pop star on the planet next to Michael Jackson at the time, but give me a fucking break. It would be fun to go back and see exactly how many scenes Davis had to shoot acting directly opposite Madonna. Two? Three? How many minutes of screen time do they share?Also it’s a shit-take. A League of Their Own is a great movie.
I could see the producers overselling Madonna’s role in pre-production and making all the other actors feel like she was going to be the star and they should be lucky to have her. Though this was when her pop stardom was fading and she was already known as a terrible actor (Shanghai Surprise, Who’s That Girl..) so I dunno, maybe it was always meant to be a small role.
Your first paragraph shows an interesting imagination, but there is no version of 1992 where Madonna’s pop stardom was “fading”. That is all.
I dunno, this was way after Dick Tracy and they kind of called Ray of Light a “comeback” album at the time.
she was already known as a terrible actorAgree, though credit where credit is due, I think she kills it in League of Their Own. I don’t know if the role was written specifically for her but she’s never been better.
Madonna did a great job as “All the Way Mae” because it was the perfect fit between her and her character (even better than the title character in Desperately Seeking Susan), and for once she was willing to be a team player rather than trying to be The Star.
Whether it’s her best role or not, it’s certainly up there — and frankly, Debra Winger couldn’t have possibly done Dottie as the Goddess of Baseball Geena Davis played her as….
Catching without a mitt? She could possibly even play cricket.
“Ok, maybe summa them are goin’ home.”
well, madonna wasn’t exactly faded in 1992. this is right after ‘truth or dare’ and her whole ‘erotica’ phase, so anything she did at this point was probably goin to be big news.agree with you on the acting part, though. it’s…not good.
Breathless Mahoney gets no love.
Madonna also elevated the movie’s exposure with the hit theme song.
Man, the tone of that song was totally wrong for the film. Don’t get me wrong, as far as slow pop songs go, it’s not a bad tune, but why play such a bummer of a song over the closing credits of an otherwise really fun movie?
The movie isn’t all fun, and the end is kind of a bummer. Many of them have died, and the ones still alive are looking back at a moment in time when they could really do the one thing in the world they most wanted to do, which for a woman of that time is something they had no reason to expect would ever happen, and they had to give it up before they were ready to and that’s what the song is about. It’s not just light popcorn fare. It’s actually a pretty heavy movie.
Yep. Baseball was a refuge for the outcast women of A League of Their Own. Dottie was the only “normal” one of the group who could have gone on to be reasonably happy as a standard 1940s housewife. For the others, they got a few happy years doing what they loved with great friends before all that was taken away. (And though the movie wasn’t willing to go there and gave Kit a husband in the ending scenes, Kit and several other women in the movie are easy to read as–and were probably intended to be in at least some drafts of the movie–queer.)
“but why play such a bummer of a song over the closing credits of an otherwise really fun movie?”
The ending of the movie is the women years later (well the ones who survived) reminiscing about a league that was cut down just as the players were getting it all together. Not exactly a happy moment.
Guess they wanted sentimental, were given dour and just didn’t have the time or the fucks to ask for something more appropriate.
Yeah, she sounds like a pompous bitch.
It’s probably Madonna’s best screen performance, precisely because she’s a relatively minor role of the ensemble and she really did seem to reign it in to work within the group.
Yeah. Her chemistry with Rosie O’Donnell was really good too.
Unspooled covered League of Their Own as part of their “Sports Movies” mini-series and played some clips of Madonna and O’Donnell and their fun little Mutt-and-Jeff routine when they went out on various talk shows promoting the film. The chemistry was real.
Moe, Ro . . . Ro, Moe . . .
Look at John Cena. He can’t carry a movie for shit, but if you give him a bit part, he’s great.
Best. Captain. America. Ever.
I tried looking at John Cena. Couldn’t see a thing.
I dunno, Cena was fun enough as Peacemaker in The Suicide Squad that I am excited for the spin-off show he will be headlining.
I read this as Pacemaker, which would be a hilarious name for an elderly comic book character
I’m a big fan of “Psych: The Movie” too.
She’s fine in smaller, character roles. She’s terrific in this. (My favorite is her sly, hopeful delivery of “What if, at a key moment in the game, my top bursts open and —ooops!—my bosoms come flyin’ out. That—that might draw a crowd, right?”) It’s when she’s asked to carry the movie that she flops—she doesn’t have the gravitas. But she has natural comic instincts.
It’s amazing a Genuine™ British Lady™ can play a gritty Noo Yorker street gal type:
And her character is kind of the slutty wild girl (for the 1940s, anyhow), so it’s not like she was being asked to stretch terribly far. I haven’t seen the movie in quite some time but I don’t remember her being bad in it.
We recently re-watched League and just at a guess I’d say Davis and Madonna are both on-screen at the same time (that is, actually in frame or clearly physically near one another in panning shots)… well, not very often, but there’s definitely a lot of scenes they’re both in. It’s likely they interacted quite a lot while on set.But from the article, it sounds like Winger’s problem was that she thought the movie was going to be a vehicle for Madonna (i.e. an “Elvis movie”), not that she had a personal problem with Madonna.
The “Elvis comment” certainly suggests that interpretation. Though I am also now vaguely remembering that Winger had some kind of brutal feud with Shirley MacClaine during the shooting of Terms of Endearment. So possibly, given what the public knew/assumed about Madonna’s personality, Winger wanted to go out of her way to avoid earning herself a second life-long nemesis. It’s just a head scratcher. I’m looking at her filmography right now and basically everything in the ten years leading up to League… everything after Terms of Endearment really… is completely forgettable, to me anyway. It feels like such a bad choice to have passed up that role.
Agreed. This would be like an actor ducking out of Hidden Figures because Janelle Monae was in it.
There’s a great documentary you should see called ‘Searching For Debra Winger’, where she talks about why she walked away from the business back then. It wasn’t a bad career decision, it was a good life decision.
I can respect that, having made similar choices re: quality of life vs career advancement.
“Winger wanted to go out of her way to avoid earning herself a second life-long nemesis.”Apparently, they did hate each other. At one point, they were respectively married to friends Sean Penn and Timothy Hutton, Madonna wanted the Jane Bowles in “The Sheltering Sky” and complained that Madonna was miscast.The problem is that no one remembers this so Winger comes across as petty not only to Madonna but to Marshall and Davis, too.
Madonna was actually pretty good in this movie, and it’s not like people were beating Debra Winger’s door off its hinges.
I admire Winger as an actress but her whole energy in most performances is way too jaded and spiky for that part. Davis was a way better fit and she’s great in the movie.
I think you’d be hard pressed to make an evidence-based case that dropping out of this film hurt Winger’s career. It’s not like it made lasting stars of any of the actresses who did make it. It marked the END of Geena Davis’ time as a star, not the beginning.Winger on the other hand, earned her third Oscar nomination the following year.
Respectfully but forcefully disagree. There is no universe where we can contemplate “END of Geena Davis’s time as a star” without pinning the blame squarely on Cutthroat Island. Regarding Winger’s nomination… go out into the street and ask a random passerby which film they remember, A League of Their Own or [checks notes]… Shadowlands…?
My point is just that, based on the subsequent outcomes for all involved, I find it difficult to be persuaded that Winger’s career would be significantly different today if she had done this one particular movie.
No, but the movie might not have been as successful! Geena Davis was Dottie in ways Debra Winger couldn’t hope to match….
I loved Cutthroat Island except Geena Davis acted as if she were reading the lines off of cue cards.
without pinning the blame squarely on Cutthroat Island.
Maybe I’m mis-remembering, but didn’t The Long Kiss Goodnight get a lot of shit, too?
I honestly don’t remember the reaction to Long Kiss Goodnight. I think it kind of flopped/was mostly ignored, which is a shame, because it is excellent and way ahead of its time. It definitely made a big commercial and critical splash when it was remade 5-6 years latter, with Matt Damon in the Geena Davis role, and retitled The Bourne Identity.
I’m sorry, both basically have the same career but Winger is better respected because her hits were bigger and more dramatic. Davis basically always did lighter fare.But looking at their filmography, they’re basically on the same identical career path. Hot for about a decade then cold after that. Winger seems to have had a stronger Hollywood cult following to back out of projects and be respected but I just never got it. She faded quietly into obscurity but kept a brighter star than Davis but I’m willing to bet the average person who’s under-40 has a better memory of Davis than Winger.
THIS. Totally unwarranted, idiotic, back-slap 29 years too late. Winger should be wondering more if her career would have been significantly different had she stayed with the role instead of spewing why she left. Madonna sucks, and probably sucked more in the early 90s during her uber-narcissistic ‘Sex’ phase, but she’s still a professional entertainer, who knows how the industry works, and can still hit her marks (for better or worse). If an actor like Debra Winger feels that they can’t act opposite someone who is potentially mediocre, that’s on them, not the other person.
There are the types of stars who are big for a time, but gradually fade to the point when successive generations don’t know or care about them: everyone has seen a Humphrey Bogart film but it’s likely that most people haven’t seen a George Raft film. Ditto Geena Davis vs Debra Winger. It’s possible that a non-film geek has seen “An Officer and a Gentleman” or “Terms of Endearment”, but it’s more likely that they’ve watched “Tootsie”, “The Fly”, “Beetlejuice”, “Thelma & Louise”, “A League of Their Own”, “Stuart Little” and even “The Long Kiss Goodnight”. Davis took a bunch of wild swings and eventually was dropped out of the big leagues, but at least she tried. Winger was a mercurial talent who torched many a collaboration with her snobbish attitude and struggled to fulfil her early ‘80s potential. I admire the person who tries over the loser who grumbles.
Debra Winger didn’t give a shit about her career then and doesn’t now.
Clearly 😉
I would compare it to a serious actor being told in their possible next movie they just added Bhad Bhabie. “Mr. Day-Lewis, I know you are retired, but…”You might just think the movie is going in a direction you don’t want to be part of.
I think one of the reasons I love the Avengers so much was because it took bits and pieces from A League of Their Own in establishing different personalities and having a fun environment to have them all play and interact in.
I might be stretching it, but I can’t think of many 90’s films that can have so many characters and make them all work together perfectly and not losing focus on the core story.
The movie just wouldn’t have been as good with anyone else in Madonna’s role.
I’m not usually one to say “just suck it up” for bad working situations or historically questionable films, but this seems so petty, was Madonna herself going to be that unbearable? I mean maybe, but did she know for sure at the time? And it would’ve raised Winger’s profile regardless. As the unquestionably professional and gifted Christopher Lee said “Every actor has to make terrible films from time to time, but the trick is never to be terrible in them.”
Aw, c’mon Abbi! You can be doing better than another chezzy reboot nobody’s looking for!
Yeah, but Nick Offerman and D’Arcy Carden got my attention.
Even worse if it’s a reboot of the forgettable reboot.https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0106055/
Those ‘An Officer And A Gentleman’ residuals must be flagging.
Plus, she spent all her Legal Eagles money on Starbucks.
It doesn’t cover the check she has to send Lou Gossett for saving that film.
Surprisingly, the “Thank God it’s Friday” money just keeps rolling in.
Say what you will about Madonna’s acting in other films, here, she works.
Say what you will about Madonna’s acting in other films:
That too.
Them two!
Those two too.
Is it Festivus already? I feel like a lot of decades-old grievances have been aired lately.
What a prima-donna…
She was in the movie until Madonna joined. That makes her a pre-Madonna prima-donna.
she was the first Dottie, so she’s a Prima-Dottie, technically
Thanks for pulling the joke out of that one! I couldn’t quite get out what I wanted, and apparently minimalism was not the answer.Maybe priMa-donna next time?
Yeah, after publishing that I was expecting a “that’s the joke.gif”.
Not gonna lie. That was my first thought. But it’s obvious the joke needed some punching up. Take all your well deserved stars and cash them in.
Take your star and get the hell out.
well, that was a choice.
I thought I’d heard that Winger was largely out of work for a long time not because she reached a certain age but because she’s a jerk. This kind of sounds like that. Maybe this call was the impetus.Madonna was good in the movie and her friendship with Rosie was touching
I felt her friendship with Rosie was … riveting.
Thanks, Dad.
now you’ve made me want to see a movie where Rosie the Riveter kills date rapists with rivets. I can imagine the reviews: “Engrossing!”
Coincidentally I’ve been researching for a US road trip and have only today discovered that one of the US’s National parks is based around Rosie the Riveter.
“I couldn’t look away. I was glued to the screen!”
I can imagine the reviews: “Engrossing!”
DAD JOKE!INCOMINGGGGGG…!
You keep making puns like this and I’m gonna bolt.
You’re all just a bunch of loose screws.
I’m giving you a star, but I’m not happy about it.
Debra Winger seemed to never get along with anyone she ever worked with, male or female. After a while, it’s not them, it’s you. And very little seems to have changed.
The stories about her clashes with MacLaine during filming Terms of Endearment (in which they are both incredible) are legendary. Which, fine, some people just rub each other the wrong way. But these same dynamics come up over and over with Winger.
When I pointed out the same thing about Val Kilmer a couple weeks ago, more than a few people got all huffy about it being “hearsay.” Let’s see if anybody gets huffy over saying it about Winger. (Yes on both counts. They are widely known to be very problematic on film sets.)
I remember reading about Kilmer clashing with everyone on the Heat set, and getting into it with Brando on Island of Dr. Moreau.
I remember reading about Kilmer clashing with everyone on the Heat setDo you have a source/link for that? It sounds completely believable, but I’d be curious to know more about what was going on behind the scenese during the making of Heat.
Really? Kilmer’s attitude was infamous — he’s the one actor who drove Oliver Stone to flipping out, rather than the other way around!
You really need to reconsider your life choices when you’re a bigger asshole than Oliver Stone.
Oh, yeah, PhonyPope!Big Time.
I’ve read numerous accounts of the two butting heads in numerous publications over the years, and all I could think was: Winger taking on MacLaine? Puh-leeze. MacLaine is a righteous legend. Winger is a righteous legendary pain in the ass.
Debra Winger is a bit of a jerk.Then again, so was Madonna on the set of League of Their Own. Rosie O’Donnell was the only person she got along with. She complained long and loud about the playing scenes, about the locations, about having to lower herself to abide the company and the ambience. She also, IIRC, threatened to quit until they gave her the dancing scene with Eddie Mekka.I’m saying there are no heroes in this story.
I think early on she didn’t like the limited roles for women in general, which looking back it was true, and even true to some extent now. And complained about roles over a certain age. So, hey, if she doesn’t want to act because of how Hollywood worked/works, that’s fine. But having an attitude about a potential co-star does sound petty. I feel like her Geena Davis “did OK” comment was much more shitty.
I will never know why Winger was out of work for so long, but I’ve heard a few of these Serious Actor stories about her. Nothing wrong with the attitude but movies are collaborative and after awhile, people might want to work with someone who likes being part of a team.
It might have been more understandable back then, but to hear her say it now (especially when we have seen the movie and Madonna was good and to call it an “Elvis movie” is idiotic…and whatever the fuck Body of Evidence was it sure wasn’t an Elvis movie) with no self-awareness is jarring. Imagine if she was like “Sterling K. Brown? I won’t work with him, he’s a TV actor!” “Tilda Swinton? I won’t work with her, she’s in COMIC BOOK MOVIES” “Jordan Peele? I won’t work with him, he’s a comic!”
“Timothy Hutton? I wouldn’t work with him, we used to be married!”
Well, I don’t know who Debra Winger is and I do know who Geena Davis is, so maybe that says a small something
You can teach an old dog new tricks, but you can’t teach Madonna to act.
Did the Wheel of Morality tell you that?
Are you saying nine Golden Raspberry Awards is a lot?
You’re not an actress you’re a Singer Boo!
Damn did they really go there? And Madonna was/is signed with Warners!
They did, in fact: https://animaniacs.fandom.com/wiki/Episode_35:_Very_Special_Opening/In_the_Garden_of_Mindy/No_Place_Like_Homeless/Katie_Ka-Boo/Baghdad_Caf%C3%A9
Except…. Madonna was good in this movie. She gave a good performance and it is easily her best movie.
Debra Winger seems like a lot.
I think the biggest revelation to me from this story is that Geena Davis is only a few months younger than Debra Winger.
She also didn’t get along with Richard Gere or Shirley MacLaine.
I’m going to quote my Raylan Givens:
“You run into an asshole in the morning, then bad luck, you ran into an asshole. You run into assholes all day? You’re the asshole.”
He’s actually *my* Raylan Givens.
I think it’s fair to say he’s EVERYONE’S Raylan Givens.
You might want to think that, I might want to think that, but deep down we all know he’s Boyd Crowder’s Raylan Givens.They dug coal together.
Gonna go ahead and disabuse you all of your delusions, that’s actually Elmore Leonard’s Raylan Givens, and we should all be very greatful for Leonard’s contribution to our lives.
OK, I just finished a watch-through of Justified, and now you’re making me want to do it all over again.
So anyway, Dottie let Kit score that run, right?
No, she didn’t.
No. Dottie was a hard-ass with Kit – that’s why she called for the high fastballs that Kit had never before been able to handle. Her goal wasn’t to let Kit win, but to help Kit figure out how to win on her own. Kit finally did.
Kit shoulda offered rum and cigar to Jobu to take fear from bats.
Fuck you Jobu. I do it myself.
Nah. Kit said “Fuck you, Jobu; I do it myself.”
NO SPOILERS!
I feel like that movie featured a SHIT ton of those performers at their best.
“gave queer woman another character to fall for”My biggest takeaway is only one lesbian is hot for Geena Davis (woman, singular?)
“gave queer woman another character to fall for”
Straight men, too, I assure you.
And straight girls. She looked like a goddess. I think prior to that I had only seen her in Beetlejuice where she looks very homemade.
There’s a scene later in the movie where Dottie and Jimmy are chatting on the team bus, and they get a shot of Geena Davis smiling at Tom Hanks, and I swear to God, she’s practically glowing in that moment. I mean, sure, beautiful woman smiling in Hollywood lighting, but man, it’s not easy even in that situation to just radiate charm and beauty like that. It’s one of those capital-M, capital-S Movie Star (TM) shots you can’t replicate.
Did you ever see Davis on her arc on Family Ties? It’s more or less where she got her start. She played the house keeper for a few episodes when Meredith Baxter was pregnant and on bed rest. She was absolutely glowing the entire time. She was a giant beam of clumsy sunshine and more or less blew up over night.
I agree, she was incandescent in that role.
There’s a scene later in the movie where Dottie and Jimmy are chatting
on the team bus, and they get a shot of Geena Davis smiling at Tom
Hanks, and I swear to God, she’s practically glowing in that moment.
I know exactly which scene you’re talking about, and you’re 100% correct.
I gotta rewatch this soon.
Geena Davis is 6 feet tall, and that helps her absolutely command every scene. Lori Petty looks like her tiny kid sister even though she’s 5’8″. Deborah Winger is 5’4″. There aren’t enough apple boxes in the world to create the same physical dynamic between Winger and Petty.
I keep thinking about that too. Part of what made Geena’s Dottie so imposing was Geena’s sheer physical size. Dottie would have been an entirely different character as a shortie.
but what if she was really mean?
Well I’m short and mean, so…approved!
Exactly. When Dottie strides to the plate, you believe that the opposing team would be like “Oh, shit…”If it was a 5-foot-4 actor? That’s… not intimidating. Geena’s height helped make you believe Dottie Henson was truly the kind of player who would inspire baseball folk tales. Think Casey at the Bat. (And hey, Mighty Dottie even dropped the ball to lose the game, even if she didn’t strike out.)
Penny Marshall did a fantastic job making Dottie Henson seem larger than life. Look at how this shot is set up – she towers over everyone, even Jimmy.
Smart move. Freed her up to do Wilder Napalm.
“A League of Their Own” came out in 1992. At that point, Debra Winger’s most recent good movie (“Black Widow”) was five years behind her, and her most recent hit (“Terms of Endearment”) was nine years old. It’s hard to imagine what she was thinking – Hollywood wasn’t exactly beating down her door. Three years later, she’d be doing TV movies.
Amazon has an , Good god, no. Come on.As for Winger…. interesting bit of “hot-take” trivia, I guess. But amounts to Eric Stoltz/BTTF level casting. Would’ve been okay, but the eventual actor made it iconic. That’s how it works sometimes.And I don’t know if it’s a compliment or an indictment, but since I was unaware of her involvement, every scene where she was featured in the first episode of “Mr. Corman” I honestly thought Debra Winger was Laurie Metcalf.Feels like she’s playing Laurie Metcalf in “Lady Bird.”
Does Debra have a twitter? I’d love to see her take on everything.
According to imdb trivia, Madonna had trouble handling ground balls so they had to move her character to the outfield & possibly reduce her part somewhat. Geena Davis came in late & did not get the months of baseball training all the other actresses got, but she was a natural athlete & within weeks she was the best ballplayer out of all of them.
she was a natural athleteShe got close to making the olympic archery team in the ‘90s or something like that. She clearly understands the competitive persona
She almost made it to the Sydney Olympics in 2000. Amazing feat nonetheless.
I’m kind of surprised they did that and didn’t just have a stunt double
I guess director Penny Marshall decided the actresses would actually do all the baseball stuff themselves & I do think it benefited the movie even if it probably wasn’t totally necessary
True, that is a good touch for the film.
I mean, that’s fair enough I guess and I like Debra Winger fine but Geena Davis killed that role. I don’t think it’s the case at all that the end product doesn’t honor the real women and that it makes people question if it’s true. That part sounds like sour grapes. If you’re happy with your decision just stand by your decision; you don’t need to make up problems with the end result. The movie’s a classic for a reason.Also, Madonna did well, which Winger knows but was too petty to admit, which is why she didn’t just come out and say she sucked.
“If you’re happy with your decision just stand by your decision; you don’t need to make up problems with the end result.”She likely knows that the 30th Anniversary is coming up, which means online retrospectives and oral history paying tribute to the real life players, Penny Marshall and the cast. This is a petty, Mean Girl-ish attempt to diminish Marshall and Davis’ achievements. The truth is that absolutely no one missed her once she stopped darkening the production and the film did pay tribute to these women’s achievements. Marshall and Davis got it done while Winger was just a bitter spectator.
Stillwell should have been beaten very hard by someone who knew how to beat a child very hard.
His getting hit in the head with the glove was easily the most satisfying moment in the film.
It might be one of my all time favorite movie moments. Also Hanks trying to calmly criticize the player who keeps missing the cut off man is some brilliant acting. Great facial expressions.
Hanks’s glee is infectious. Everyone watching wanted that kid to get got. I love mom’s “well what did you expect?” reaction too.
In those days, child beating was a competative sport.
I‘m sure Madonna is absolutely broken up about this. (eye-roll emojii)Don’t get me wrong, I’m a Madge fan of the HIGHEST order (I happen to like Shanghai Surprise, Swept Away and Who’s That Girl – they aren’t great but they aren’t the worst things I’ve seen), but I’m perplexed as to why this story is getting so much traction… It’s been in the news for days now.Who. Fucking. Cares? What’s next? We get some insights from the kid from Dick Tracy?
How dare you. I’d love a Charlie Korsoaissance.
Hey, actors have egos.Winger probably signed because she was pitched (oww) the movie as being an important representation of women in a little-known bit of history. Penny Marshal even got the writers of a All-American Girls Professional Baseball League documentary involved with developing the script. At that point Winger had some decent award nominations racked up and was chasing more.The Madonna stunt casting probably made her realize that the movie was going to be what it turned out to be, a decently crafted bit of lightweight fluff (a popcorn movie instead of a film). I don’t blame her for bowing out and taking their money.
how many men’s sports movies are FILMS instead of pieces of fluff that hit the exact same notes every single time? at least A League of Their Own was innovative in what it showed and its point of view, sheesh
The thing about sports films, and why they often end up being light and airy, is that it’s so easy to get the sports fix by either 1. Watching the actual competition on TV (or the internet), or 2. Going outside and playing it yourself. It takes away a lot of the wish fulfillment aspect of why movies are so captivating.
Hell, all of the best sports films are deep character studies. The sport itself is secondary (and in most cases, completely incidental). Also, anybody who has even a modicum of sense would realize that a sports film that focuses on a team sport will, odds are, be an ensemble piece. Attempts to do a team sport but focus on one player almost always falls flat, especially if they are forced to make the player absolutely dominating in a team sport that doesn’t lend itself well to one player utterly dominating ad nauseum (or the player in question plays a position that can’t unilaterally dominate and win guys by themselves).
Boxing, tennis, golf, MMA, most track and field events, you can have an individual focus. Basketball, slightly less so, but one player can often dominate. Football, really hard to do correctly. Baseball, almost impossible for any position other than the pitcher. Soccer? Not in the States lol
Very few indeed. Except boxing, which somehow makes for FILM.
These comments don’t paint Winger in a very good light.
A few years ago, Rosanna Arquette made a documentary called “Searching for Debra Winger” about how Winger had gone from one of Hollywood’s biggest stars to not working much at all, with Arquette’s conclusion (and all the discussion at the time) being that it was because of sexism and Hollywood’s treatment of actresses over 30 as disposable. And I guess what this news suggests is that maybe, in addition to sexism and Hollywood’s creepy attitudes toward women, bad judgment played a role? I mean, she seems really proud that she got paid not to be in A League of Their Own, but after that, people seemed increasingly reluctant to pay her to be in anything.Then again, it was probably for the best. Geena Davis, who’s something like 8 inches taller than Winger, was fairly perfect for a role as a star athlete, which was a big deal for that movie because Madonna, Rosie O’Donnell, and even Lori Petty really weren’t.
Sounds like Winger may be a toxic jerk which may have played a part in her decline too.
I love Debra Winger. She’s a great actress. She would have been excellent in the film. If she doesn’t like the movie, then it’s probably best that she’s not in it.That said, A League of Their Own is terrific. Geena Davis is great in it. And more importantly, Madonna is so good in it. She’s a lot of fun. I get not wanting a pop star to eclipse a film, but Winger is so ungenerous to not give Madonna a chance. And to stand by that decision without a hint of diplomacy is just so strange.
I totally buy Geena Davis as a ballplayer. More than Robert Redford in “The Natural.” More than John Goodman in, “The Babe.” More than Charlie Sheen in, “Major League.”
Agreed. And since you mention Major League, one of the things I liked about that movie was that damn near the entire cast looked like ballplayers, with the exception of Sheen and Bernsen (ironic, since I think Bernsen was a college athlete).
Sheen was actually a pitcher in high school too. I think Bernsen looking out of place was on purpose.
He was also in Eight Men Out. Someone thought he looked like a ballplayer.
I think Sheen even was on purpose, he was signed out of the California Penal league, so he was far from the typical ballplayer.
I thought Sheen looked very believable as a pitcher in Major League. The example you should’ve used was Tim Robbins in Bull Durham. His acting in the rest of the movie was really good, but every time they showed him pitching was comical.
God I am so mad they cast Goodman in the Babe. As good of an actor as he is you know it was because he’s fat, and the Babe was fat. But the Babe wasn’t always John Goodman fat! Costner looks basically like most 90’s pitchers did in For Love of the Game, so I give him a pass
Costner wasn’t bad at all as a “ballplayer.” John Goodman had a run where Hollywood thought he could carry movies so he got cast as lead in a lot of movies. Odd. Not as odd as Jim Belushi getting lead roles, though.
“One of Geena Davis’ most iconic roles is Dottie in A League Of Their Own, which gave queer woman another character to fall for.”
Wait – it’s been 20+ years since I saw the movie but I loved it as a kid – was there some sort of subtext that suggest Dottie was a lesbian in League that I was too young to catch? I thought she and Tom Hanks had a romantic thing going from what I remember?
That and her husband was away, fighting in the war.But she’s good at sports, and everyone knows only THOSE kind of girls are good at sports. I guess?
I think the idea is that a lot of queer women love A League of Their Own, and only in part because it’s a movie about a bunch of ladies playing baseball in one big woman-y mass of friendship and solidarity.
Petty, petty, petty shit.
Must really sting to have that much contempt for somebody who won an Oscar when you never did….I meant Geena Davis, not Madonna.
Has anyone really given a shit about anything Debra Winger has had to say in the last 25 years? She did An Officer and A Gentleman, and Terms of Endearment(one of which I’ve seen), and she boned Nebraska governor Bob Kerry, and that’s all I know about her. I’ve seen waaaay more of Geena Davis’s work over the years.She sounds like she unpleasanted herself out of a career. There are plenty of talented actors who aren’t poisonous assholes, why would you hire one that is a known asshole, but not any better than 10 other much more pleasant actors?
Oh man those sour grapes! I’m not used to seeing grapes so authentically sour I love it.
Debra Winger’s best performance…as Wonder Girl! 😉
The reboot has D’Arcy Carden?“I don’t have ball-players, I’ve got girls!”“Not a girl.”
Not that I’m an entirely shallow individual, but, as a woman, I have to say… God-damn! That photo looks nothing like Debra Winger. She just doesn’t look like the Debra Winger who made famous classic dialogue such as, “Fine! Fer-git it!” And, “I got a thumb! I got a middle fan-ger!” And let’s not forget: “My legs are sweatin’, mama.” They don’t write ‘em like that anymore. No wonder Ms. Winger hasn’t been around much lately.
Geena Davis is awesome and I’m glad if her role in “Thelma and Louise” gave “queer women…a character to fall for” but it’s a bit smug if you’re implying her character was a lesbian. Did I miss something? It’s not really a great take on female friendships.
Winger told The Telegraph that she trained with the Chicago Cubs for 3 monthsWait, what? I’m sure she trained with someone, but that didn’t happen.
Maybe she means the Chicago Cubs organization, not the MLB team. She could’ve spent time in their training camp, or with one of the minor league teams.
Why all the hate for Winger? I loved League and I loved Geena Davis in it, but it does sound like she started off making an entirely different movie, so I think she was smart to walk away. It turned out great, but it doesn’t mean she was wrong. People usually like to hear these honest conversations about lost or passed on roles, but she really hit a nerve for some reason, and the comments about her here have just been mean. Her physical appearance, her lack of an Oscar, her career slow-down? And giving her candid take on the movie is sour grapes?Luckily she probably doesn’t give a shit what anyone thinks of her choices.
It’s more that her career is full of such “candid takes.” The Arquette documentary built up this narrative that she was the victim of sexism and ageism, but the fact is that during her prime she burned bridges like she was Sherman marching through Georgia, badmouthing her directors, costars, even her agents. There’s a fine line (the LaBeouf Line?) between being a good, no-bullshit interview and being a toxic person nobody wants to work with. Winger’s spent a lot of her career riding (and passing) that line.
Madonna wasn’t the main character in the movie, she did fine, and it wasn’t a musical. “You kind of go ‘Is that true?,’” is total horseshit, and saying Davis “did OK” is the kind of catty backstabbing that plays into the worst female stereotypes. Winger has long had a reputation of being a nightmare to work with, and normally when I hear that I think it probably means the actor in question just didn’t want to fuck some gross old producer, but in Winger’s case I’ll make an exception.
Yet another in a long line of “might have been” casting.In an alternate universe, John Travolta played Forrest Gump and Will Smith played Neo in The Matrix.
A League of Their Own is really good, and as it turned out, Madonna’s part was not a main role. But… I have no idea how much of the original script Madonna was going to be in, nor do I know how many meetings Winger took where people gushed “oh, we just got Madonna!”So I have no problem with Winger’s decision – I think Geena Davis is a better actor anyway. I did recently rewatch the movie and Madonna is the weakest and most playable-by-any-other-actress part. Well. The series is apparently filming now or filmed and I cannot wait. Abbi Jacobson, D’arcy Carden and Nick Offerman? Why is this not on my tv right now???!
This is just silly. I’m no fan of Madonna’s, not that I dislike her, she’s just not someone I follow. That being said I think she did great in the film still think it legitimizes her to this day. The film as a whole is a true classic and really up there on the list of fantastic movies. If she doesn’t regret being in this movie, I feel like it says more about her bad judgement, if anything at all.
This was all hubris, like “I’m a big star, so I don’t want to work with a singer” – you were’nt & she was ideal for her role in what turned out to be a great movie, and nothing like an ‘Elvis’ movie.
And congrats on getting PAID for no work; I’m sure that endeared you to both the studio & the pioneering, award winning FEMALE director that you essentially flipped off – it did’nt.Meanwhile, when Oscar winner Davis & Globe winner Madonna were asked to comment, their response was: who??
I love how this… piece of writing ignores Winger saying #metoo “in some ways, it’s pulled ridiculously too far” in literally the same interview.
What other roles did Ms Winger lose because she didn’t like her potential costars?