Evan Rachel Wood names Marilyn Manson as her abuser, more women come forward
Aux Features Social Issues
Evan Rachel Wood has disclosed the name of the former romantic partner who allegedly abused her for several years. In a statement posted to her Instagram Monday morning, the actress and activist named her ex-fiance Marilyn Manson as the previously unspecified partner:
The name of my abuser is Brian Warner, also known to the world as Marilyn Manson. He started grooming me when I was a teenager and horrifically abused me for years. I was brainwashed and manipulated into submission. I am done living in fear of retaliation, slander, or blackmail. I am here to expose this dangerous man and call out the many industries that have enabled him before he ruins any more lives. I stand with the many victims who will no longer be silent.
In the wake of Wood’s statement, Vanity Fair reports that four more women have come forward with allegations against Manson, posted to Instagram: Ashley Walters, Sarah McNeilly, Ashley Lindsay Morgan, and a woman named Gabriella described their own traumatic experiences with Manson, including allegations of physical and psychological abuse and sexual assault. All four women say they are still suffering from PTSD as a result.
Manson has yet to comment on the allegations, but an attorney for the musician denied similar accusations in 2018. In May of that year, a police report was filed accusing Manson of unspecified sex crimes that occurred in 2011. Speaking with The Hollywood Reporter, Manson’s attorney Howard E. King said, “allegations made to the police were and are categorically denied by Mr. Warner and are either completely delusional or part of a calculated attempt to generate publicity…. Any claim of sexual impropriety or imprisonment at that, or any other, time is false.”
Wood has spoken publicly on more than one occasion about her experiences in an abusive relationship: Following the 2016 presidential election, she told Rolling Stone, “I’ve been raped. By a significant other while we were together. And on a separate occasion, by the owner of a bar. I don’t believe we live in a time where people can stay silent any longer. Not given the state our world is in with its blatant bigotry and sexism.” Wood elaborated on her experiences with one unnamed former partner while giving testimony to the California Senate in support of the Phoenix Act (signed into law in 2019), which extends the statute of limitations for reporting acts of domestic violence from two years to five. Wood referenced multiple instances of abuse, including one particularly violent incident:
I mustered the courage to leave several times, but he would call my house incessantly and threaten to kill himself. On one occasion, I returned to try and defuse the situation, he cornered me in our bedroom, and asked me to kneel. Then he tied me up by my hands and feet. Once I was restrained he beat me and shocked sensitive parts of my body with a torture device called a violet wand. To him it was a way for me to prove my loyalty. The pain was excruciating. It felt like I left my body and a part of me died that day.
Wood delivered additional testimony in 2018, in front of a House Judiciary Subcommittee in support of passing the Sexual Assault Survivors’ Bill of Rights in all 50 states. Although Wood had previously never publicly named her abuser, the allegations inevitably became the subject of speculation, with many believing Manson to be the former partner in question.
313 Comments
Wasn’t Rose McGowan with Marilyn Manson for some time as well? If I’m remembering correctly I’m stunned that she wouldn’t be opening up as well (unless that relationship between them wasn’t abusive).
Give her time. Even if she wasn’t abused by him, she’ll jump on the bandwagon. I believe the other women, but she’s just crazy these days.
This was what I was thinking. I’m kinda waiting to see what she says as she’s been in complicated relationships since she entered the entertainment industry as an emancipated minor. I thought she was with him for a good minute.
By previous statements she at least says he was always very supportive. I wouldn’t be surprised if this was true and it was actually a deliberate manipulation on his part to stem the rising tide of allegations at the time.
He was also married to Dita Von Teese a pinup model after Mcgowan and before Wood and he is apparently married currently so there should be more accounts to come.
Boy that lawyer’s statement is something. I’m surprised he just didn’t blame it on “hysteria.”
“I mean what did she expect dressing that way” – Manson’s Lawyer
Dumb.
What’d Joe Elliot ever do to her?
Dammit you beat me
*For the record Joe Elliot is a nice bloke , and knows a disturbing amount about lower league football (soccer) teams.
Oh, can you feel it? Do you believe it?
So Marilyn Manson is exactly who he always seemed to be, except it’s not the 90s anymore and creepy narcissism is no longer a profound artistic statement about Puritanism or something, it’s just creepy narcissism. Antichrist go fuck yourself.
On top of everything, this article is now forever ruined:https://entertainment.theonion.com/marilyn-manson-now-going-door-to-door-trying-to-shock-p-1819565904
I don’t know what that screenshot is from but all my mushy brain can think is “Oh, that’s A Goofy Movie.”
Sorry, that is the burly guy who opens the door in the brief scene in The Big Lebowski where Jesus goes door to door telling people he’s a sex offender. It felt apropos.
Ahh yup! Sorry, it has been a minute since the last time I watched that movie.
The Big Lebowski. LOL
I think that scene is from The Big Lebowski. The Jesus telling his neighbor he is a Pedder Ass!
It’s from The Big Lebowski. The scene where Jesus has to go door to door and tell people he’s a sex offender.
That’s about what Manson looks like nowadays.
If you don’t know what you are doing by 19, you deserved to be raped.
That, and his (genuinely pretty funny) guest appearance on Clone High.My body is a pyramid
That’s made of healthy foods
So do what we say
Eat right every day
Iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
loooooooooooooooooove
youuuuuuuuuuuuu!Buy American.
I know Seth McFarlane shows are an easy target, but I was always baffled by that Family Guy about Chris getting into Marilyn Manson which buttered up Manson as shamelessly as the most groveling Simpsons celebrity guest appearance, but didn’t actually have Manson doing his own voice
Nah. If anything, I consider that the definitive word on Manson.
No, that article got Manson exactly right. I’ve never cared for his music, but it was weird to watch half of America freaking out about this guy when slightly younger people who were at least cognizant of some sort of subculture could reel off a whole list of bands he was ripping off without a hint of shame. It’s like everyone he didn’t shock just shrugged at his act and moved on.
Just another pop musician dicking around with horror movie imagery. Nothing new. I expect his audience was primarily middle school boys who thought that was new.
Didn’t he end up gaining notoriety because of Columbine?
Or ya know, anyone who heard of Alice Cooper.
That always reminded me of the “Tenacious D” bit where they go through a stage of door-to-door rocking while confronting the death of their rock star dreams.
He literally told us he enjoyed abusing women. He wrote a book about it.
That Time Marilyn Manson and His Band Covered a Deaf Groupie With Meat and Peed on Her: Scotch-taped penises also involved.According to Manson’s autobiography “The Long Hard Road Out of Hell,” Marilyn then got a brilliant idea of asking Bier and bassist Twiggy (the guy who auditioned for Metallica at one point) to “scotch-tape their penises” to see if Alyssa could fit ‘em both in her mouth. -Ultimate-Guitar.comI was shocked by it, even back when I was into not being shocked by things.https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/news/wtf/that_time_marilyn_manson_and_his_band_covered_a_deaf_groupie_with_meat_and_peed_on_her.html
If you don’t know what you are doing by 19, you deserved to be raped.
i read and loved that book but i always assumed most of it was bullshit. i only remember bits and pieces of it (like the whole thing about stealing toilet paper) but it seemed odd that a deaf girl would be a groupie. of course, i’m old enough now to know that a piece of shit like manson is definitely capable of something like this not just because i’m a little wiser but because i don’t really think i could be shocked by ANYTHING after witnessing the trump administration.
Cry moar about trump you baby.
Mmmmm… I’m not sure “creepy” narcissism (as if there is a non-creepy version) was ever a “profound artistic statement.”
No, it never is. But with his particular brand he was able to tap into the cultural zeitgeist at a specific time as a prototypical edgelord. He was able to pass off his stuff as transgressive pop art, as opposed to just reflective of a person being a dick. It’s interesting to now clearly see the parallel threads of gaslighting in his art and his life.
Ah. Ok. Yeah, that.
Sometimes people are exactly what they seem to be. In this case, creepy dangerous motherfucker.
I can’t beleive Paul from The Wonder Years could do this.
Pour out a 40 for Josh Saviano, poor bastard deserves better than this.Unless he’s a serial sexual abuser as well. But a quick Google search seems to indicate he got out of acting, ended up as a lawyer, and has been married for 19 years, so…
He got by with a little help from his violet wand.
If you don’t know what you are doing by 19, you deserved to be raped.
He was always so nice on The Wonder Years, though.
There are few maxims more true than “When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.”
When are whores going to start taking some responsibility.
kill yourself
Was there any doubt that her abuser was Marilyn Manson? He comes off as a guy who thinks (possibly accurately) that he is the smartest guy in the room but uses that gift to be a master manipulator. His whole creepy persona is not just showbiz theatrics, he’s been showing us his true self the whole time.
I hope she gets all the support she needs, along with all other victims of his abuse.It should come as no surprise that abusers revel in the ability to talk publicly about abusing people (in the music, in the books, in the interviews) while facing no retribution. They know every public boast they make without consequence drives their victims further into the shadows. When you see someone glorify this type of control and harm, you are witnessing one of their methods on full display.
If you don’t know what you are doing by 19, you deserved to be raped.
Which is precisely why “cancelling” people is so damn important, when they say and do the things he did in public.
There’s this great vídeo from a few months ago going in detailing the accusations
If anything, I’m surprised that women didn’t come forward sooner (though we should still be glad they did). He’s always been a gross fucking creep, full of himself and with very little to offer.
Yeah I am a bit surprised people didn’t come out sooner. I get the fear of retaliation they feel, but I think these women would have found a lot of support back then. Manson was already hated by a large number of people, and I don’t think many people liked him enough to risk their careers and reputations for him. With that said, we shall see because I am sure even today someone is going to come to his defense and prove themselves to be pretty shitty at a minimum.
He was hated by many people, sure, but still had an awful lot of money not to mention the entire music industry behind him. Not surprised at all that they felt compelled to stay silent.
Find any picture of Marilyn and say out loud “Who, me?”
Marilyn Manson might as well wear a neon sign that says “I torture women.” I’d more more surprised to learn that he was a kind and respectful partner.What is the expectation when thinking about a courtship with someone who looks and behaves like a psychotic animal?
I think you assume its an act. Look at Alice Cooper. He dressed up in scary clothes and sang some scary songs but from all accounts the guy sounds like a pussy cat.
Well his stage and public persona IS an act, however that doesn’t mean he is not also a sadistic asshole behind the scenes.
Alice is an awesome human being. I’ve had the pleasure to meet him a few times. His wife is also a delight.
That’s what everyone says about him, on a personal level. I can’t think I have heard anything bad about him to be honest. As far as Manson, this article aside, the only thing I have heard about him on a personal level is that he is quite smart. Obviously that in NO way excuses his behavior.
He had his on-stage persona, and his off-stage persona, the “intellectual” who was all “can you believe these squares and/or Hole are offended by my performance art?”
OK, let’s see who in hollywood is one of the best friends of Marilyn Manson: Johnny Depp. Ooof…
And now let’s see who in hollywood was one of the best friends of Alice Cooper: Groucho Marx.Advantage? Vincent Furnier!
He’s a BIG SWEETIE. For real.
I mean, offstage Alice Cooper teaches Sunday school and plays golf FFS. He’s fine.
I get your meaning, but guys who teach Sunday School and play golf can be horrible too. Those things aren’t evidence that someone is good.
It’s hard to put a finger on exactly why, but you always got a sense with Alice that it was all an act. Maybe the fact that he was on The Muppets helped.Marilyn was always that wierdo, all the time.
Also, Alice Cooper doesn’t mind being seen in public without his makeup and in normal clothes. IIRC, the commercial he did with his daughter for back to school stuff (I think for Target) he was barefaced.
“It’s hard to put a finger on exactly why, but you always got a sense with Alice that it was all an act.”
I think that with Alice Cooper (as well as with Rob Zombie et al.), the act is mostly Hammer Horror, which is as much about brightly coloured blood and over the top acting than it was about legitimately trying to be scary. It was about scaring parents and other older squares who actually *might* find the technicolor blood in a Hammer movie scary.
The weird thing for me personally, is because of Alice Cooper, and perhaps by not paying attention, I always assumed Marilyn Manson was more of the same; an act put on by a genuinely smart and kind person. Should have paid more attention I guess…
I get you’re meaning. Even the stuff I’ve seen of Marilyn Manson outside of his music gives a faint sense that there’s something off. In contrast, with someone like Rob Zombie or Alice Cooper, as you said, it feels like an act.
Did you see that MTV Cribs episode? I only really know about it from Rollins busting on him for it.
Anyone that knows that Milwaukee is the only major city to elect 3 socialist mayors can’t be bad!
Actually, it’s pronounced Mil-ee-yuh-wah-kay, which is Algonquin for “the good land”.
“…Actually, it’s pronounced “mill-e-wah-que” which is Algonquin for “the good land.”
Harold_Ballz aaah beat me to it haha
As a Milwaukeean, I heard this scene quoted to me, in whole or in part, at least once a week while I was living on the east coast.
Fucking city’s trying to sell off the lakefront after decades patting themselves on the back for [the Zeidlers] having the forsight to make it a public park.
Sorry man, the only knowledge I have of Milwaukee is what Alice Cooper taught me.
Does this guy know how to party or what?!
Look at Alice Cooper…from all accounts the guy sounds like a pussy cat.Can confirm. I lived in Phoenix for five years, and I once saw Mr. Cooper hold the door of a Circle-K open for another person. He was also consistently in PSAs about the dangers of drunk driving, and his restaurant, Alice Cooperstown, was the site of my band’s best show.That last humblebrag brought to you by my pretty large penis.
Except for that whole supporting Bush thing
Did he, I thought Alice Cooper was very much a “I don’t talk about politics or religion” guy.
He only really pulled that out when people started asking him about Trump. But his tune was a little different two decades ago: In the build-up to the 2004 presidential election, he told the Canadian Press that the rock stars campaigning for and touring on behalf of Democratic candidate John Kerry were committing “treason against rock n’ roll”. He added, upon seeing a list of musicians who supported Kerry, “If I wasn’t already a Bush supporter, I would have immediately switched. Linda Ronstadt? Don Henley? Geez, that’s a good reason right there to vote for Bush.
He loves to play golf. When he comes to Tulsa, he *has* to get a round in on the Southern Hills Country Club golf course. (And he wears normal golf clothes, which are not normal anywhere else, but still more normal than what he wears on stage.)
or ozzy
Marilyn Manson is what happens when a sociopath who is also a total fucking artistic hack gets a hold of Alice Cooper’s act and surgically removes all the irony and talent. Superficially similar but it’s not at all surprising they are very different people under the surface.
From what you read, Iggy Pop also seems like genuinely sweet guy. He’s said that a lot of his music was fueled by resentment that he felt as a teenager. Well, that, and drugs. But the guy is over seventy now and does tai-chi and has a cat. Another guy who managed to put away a dark stage persona is David Johansen, who seems to have just grown tired of the doom and gloom thing and quit it completely.
…the result of which was “Hot, Hot, Hot.” He went from protopunk to Hot, Hot, Hot. HOT HOT HOT.
Yeah, I think it’s dangerous to draw some sort of connection between the act and who the person actually is, because seemingly sweet, nice guys can be some of the worst out there.
Even AC/VF admits that it wasn’t always that way, especially during the nadir of his alcohol/crack abuse for about ten years or so from the mid-70’s to the mid 80’s.
IRL, Cooper is a republican former governor asshole. Arizona, I belive. One of those shithole desert states.
He appears to have been a Bush supporter, but has also spoken pretty harshly about rockers getting over their skis and getting into politics.
He’s also a born-again Christian and credits his kicking his addiction to his faith. And golf. Literally, he thanks golf for replacing one addiction with another.
I like Cooper’s music. I have some of them on my running playlist. But I really don’t think I’d like hanging around him. Too much golf talk.
“Literally, he thanks golf for replacing one addiction with another.”Great. Now I’m fantasizing what a golf game between Alice Cooper and Samuel L. Jackson would sound like.Hint: It’s pretty awesome.
I used to listen to his radio at night, he’s so freakin’ wholesome.
In MM’s case the original take was that he was a fairly decent ,sane guy under scary act ,but it turns out was just a weird asshole pretending to be a nice guy pretending to be a weird asshole .
Alice Cooper the world class golfer? I guess those golf-pants colors are scary…
I’m not saying Cooper doesn’t have some bad stories from the 70s wafting around him, but every interview I’ve ever seen with him is that he’s just like every other old dude in Arizona – plays golf and eats early.
Personas are weird things.
O.J. Simpson was once considered too nice to play the Terminator. Christopher Lee was perhaps the greatest movie villain we’ve ever had and was a prince of a gentleman.
Exactly this. Based on outer appearance would you think you’d be safer with Cooper or Tom Araya, or some pop punk dork? But chances are the pop punk dork is WAY more dangerous.
Well, I shopped at Hot Topic in the 90s and never treated a partner like that.
If anything the worst abusers I’ve met in the music world were folk singers, though that like anything else is just anecdotal. The unfortunate truth is sometimes it’s exactly who you think it is and sometimes it isn’t, hiding in plain sight is just as much a thing as a Cosby-esque wholesome personality used as a diversion.
Sounds like you put a lot of judgement into people’s appearances, which is sad.While he’s an abusive dirtbag, the answer isn’t “he looks like an animal.”
She was also a minor by all accounts – It went public when she was 19 and he was 38, but the allegation is that it started when she was under age – There’s a reason predators target young victims.
“What is the expectation when thinking about a courtship with someone who looks and behaves like a psychotic animal?”Yeah, she should have found a quiet, nerdy, intellectual like Woody Allen. Or a champion of woman’s education and the African American community, Like Bill Cosby. Maybe a respected financier and with cachet in elite academia, like Jeffrey Epstein. Or a wealthy producer of mainstream Oscar winning movies, like Harvey Weinstein. Seriously, if there’s one thing the past 5 years taught is, is it’s not one type of men.
Yeah, people really need to understand this concept. I’ve had the unpleasant experience of having worked with a “normal-looking” dude who off-hours was raping twelve-year-old girls (which really makes the ‘all pedophiles are homosexual’ assumption infinitely infuriating).
I get that, I really do. If the rock star in question looks like in-their-prime David Lee Roth or Robert Plant. Or even the guy from Counting Crows.Marilyn Manson advertises himself, correctly, as a disgusting creep with a seriously disturbed psyche. I don’t get the attraction, at all.
Im sorry but i disagree with that sentiment. Guys like Tomas Haake of Meshuggah, Jens Ryden of Thyrfing, Corey Taylor of Slipknot, Tom Araya of Slayer, Alexi Laiho of Children of Bodom, Rob Zombie, David Draiman of disturbed all seem like basically nice if maybe not totaly well adjusted guys. Yet all played in bands with songs that makes Mansons songs seem like Peppa pig songs. And pushing that an exagerated persona put on for a show or performance is indicative of the kind of person they are feeds into the whole “they couldnt have done that they seem so nice”. All of the interviews I’ve seen with Marilyn he seemed like the average smart liberal metal dude. Now that turned out to not be the case so fuck him but i say that is separate from his on stage persona. Now if you where talking about GG allin, Eldon Hoke or Varg Vikernes that would be a totaly different thing as all of them has had on and off stage personas that are disgusting.
You’re shocked that a famous rockstar was able to manipulate and abuse a teenager?
If you don’t know what you are doing by 19, you deserved to be raped.
Its hard for me to be upset about this. What he did is wrong, all his victims are right and brave.Its just….Marilyn Manson told us he was this way. That was his whole persona. He was even publically abusive and toxic and rapey on stage. Im not saying that makes it okay, its just hard to be mad at someone for being exactly who they told you they were. Should he face justice and cancellation? Sure of course. But am I shocke? No, I’m not even underwhelmed. Its more like a “Yeah I already knew that, thats his whole thing.”When shit popped off for Kevin Sapcey it was shocking and upsetting because thats not the persona he put out publically. Same goes for pretty much all these scumbag dudes that have been outed these last few years.Marilyn Manson’s entire persona is a toxic, violent, rapey monster. That’s his character, and a character he has lived up to since he was fresh on the scene. I dont know what im trying to say here because i know it sounds like I’m defending him and thats not what I want to do. I dont know, my feelings are mixed and I dunno how to process this one. Please tell me how im wrong and what im not considering
I know this is kind of toxic thinking but if you read the allegations, he also pulled this on day 1 or day 7 of the relationship. These people dated him for years and he was raping them and locking them in rooms and isolating them and throwing things at them within the 1st week. Like… I just want help with that dynamic. Is love bombing a woman that powerful? That’s kind of wild. Do I not date / find these women in my social circles? To be offensive, if I did this kind of behavior and a woman put up with it… I’d find it a turn off. Sorry this happened, people shouldn’t have to put up with this… But I want to know the psychology of the victims. Because there must be a ton of women who just said no and never spoke to him again? In a lot of these accounts he pursued these women really hard. So he could tell? Just from a picture? That’s fd up too.
But he seems so nice!
I suspect The Wonder Years reunion isn’t happening now.
What about Mr. Belvedere?
What’s funny is that the actual Paul Pfeiffer actor (Josh Saviano) couldn’t be further from Marilyn Manson. He’s a (boring) lawyer in NY
Him, Chunk from The Goonies, and the kid from What About Bob and Dick Tracy should start a law practice.
If you don’t know what you are doing by 19, you deserved to be raped.
I guess it’s just been rumors, but when I first saw this trending, I thought, “Hadn’t she already named Manson before?” Guess not.Well, glad she (and the others) feel fee to speak up now.My one MM story is that, when I was a teenager and deeply involved in an Evangelical youth group, we went to do a “prayer protest” outside one of his concerts. I didn’t even know his music, really, just knew he was supposed to be Satanic. Turns out, he was way worse.
This was exactly my reaction: “Didn’t we already know it was him?”
She’d made it pretty contextually clear who she was talking about but had never actually said his name — presumably having his other exes willing to go on the record simultaneously changed the calculus a bit for everyone.
I feel like this is the third article and third time this is happening.
“Later , Satan was quoted as saying “Seriously dude leave me the f**k out of this , I had nothing to do with that guy , sheesh” before summoning forth a beast made of faeces, brimstone and old Jamiroquai CDs ,and riding forth into the sky.”
I don’t know if it’s bad time to ask but… am I the only one who’s always thought that his music sounds like absolute dogshit?!
Oh god no you’re not the only one. He’s pretty much the worst musician ever, and that Onion article had him dead to rights.
I mean Lizzo exists so he’s automatically not the worst ever.
I concede the point to you.
Lizzo’s stuff may or may not be to your taste, but she is an actual capital-S Singer: she can hold a note, she has a decent range and she has near-perfect pitch. None of those things can really be said of Manson.
It was a joke that I hoped everyone would recognize by who I chose to compare manson to. Of course lizzo is awesome. That said, manson is actually far from the worst. But maybe that’s my 90’s nostalgia talking.
LOL, sorry. I’ve usually got a good radar for this but it’s obviously not infallible and the grim truth about internet comment threads is that there’s no opinion so self-evidently terrible and wrong that you wouldn’t expect someone to proudly state it. 🙂
He’s a rock performer. Lizzo is a better singer than Bob Dylan, but she doesn’t hold a candle to him as an artist. The quality of your voice is not nothing, but pretty far down the list for rock (and I am including industrial, metal, punk and all the other subgenres) bands.
Wait did you just diss Lizzo? Lol who hurt you
It’s irrelevant to this, though; I always think it’s stupid when something terrible is revealed about someone famous and a bunch of people pile on to talk about how they never liked their stuff anyway. What does that even have to do with anything? Like, at all?(Note: I’ve never even heard more than a snippet of a video of his.)
Speaking as someone who will argue that Woody Allen is one of the greatest and most important American filmmakers of the 70s and 80s, yes I’m kind of annoyed by this kind of response. (Well, I guess specifically what annoys me isn’t individuals coming out of the woodwork to say they were never a fan, but when pop culture outlets pretend they never liked someone’s work once they’ve been revealed to have done something horrible. [See: AV Club’s changing perspectives on Louis CK.] You can re-evaluate somebody’s work in light of their actions without claiming it never had any value.)
This is an aspect of cancellation that bothers me — it’s not the simple matter of cancelling artists in the present (which we should obviously do), but rather the airbrushing-Trotsky-out-of-state-photos thing we do when a beloved artist is revealed to be an abuser or creep or rapist or whatever.If you want to argue that Woody Allen should never be allowed to make another film or attend another awards ceremony, I’m on board with that. But in the process of doing that we shouldn’t pretend we never liked his movies, or that they were never influential.With Marilyn Manson I was legitimately never into his music, but on Facebook today an old high school friend was yelling at clouds about how he’s going to remove Manson from all his playlists so that he’s not “supporting” the work of an abuser going forwards. It’s like, dude, you illegally downloaded his albums once in 1998 and have been listening to them ever since, you’re not costing him money! Feel free to ignore any new music he puts out attempting to explain away his behavior, but he’s over 20 years past his peak — why pretend that older stuff had no value?
As someone who listened to this stuff before, one of the reason you remove “canceled” artists from playlists and your orbit is because engaging with their media becomes completely linked with the abuse you know them to be capable of, which completely diminishes your enjoyment. It’s not JUST about saying you don’t want an abuser to profit; it’s often also about saying you just don’t want to feel that icky sense of “ah, here I am again, listening to a song by a man who locked women in rooms and tortured them”.
As I said, I was never into his stuff, but I don’t claim that it was because I had some kind of moral-radar superpower which enabled me to sense how terrible he really was, unlike all those bad people who ever enjoyed any of his work, and whose tastes must represent some inferiority or failing within themselves, which is what I see when threads like these really get going.
Like, just condemning the bad behavior is enough, linking moral superiority or inferiority to disliking or liking some music a couple of decades ago is just not something I feel obliged to have much respect for.No accusing you of anything, just elaborating.
No, I understand, I’m just riffing off your thought. I agree with you.
I’m with you, but to be fair, Marylin Manson is one artist where a moral radar definitely factored into things for folks.
I know where you’re coming from, but a lot of people in venues like this one who say “I never liked him” are probably telling the truth. My guess is that there are’s a fairly healthy population of former underground music scene people/indie diehards on sites like this one that don’t have to feign exasperation or disdain for Marilyn Manson. He’s one of those figures that a whole lot of people in that crowd have had a hate-on for for a long, long time.
“It’s irrelevant to this, though; I always think it’s stupid when something terrible is revealed about someone famous and a bunch of people pile on to talk about how they never liked their stuff anyway. What does that even have to do with anything? Like, at all?”
Almost as annoying as the pretentious bell-end who feel the need to pretend they’ve never heard more than a snippet of the famous person’s act, huh?
Well, you are correct and this should in no way be the main conversation here.I just thought it might be in order now (not to mention perfectly justified) to dunk on this asshole’s claim to fame and notoriety, not instead of but in addition to his unforgivable actions.
I always think it’s stupid when something terrible is revealed about someone famous and a bunch of people pile on to talk about how they never liked their stuff anyway. What does that even have to do with anything? Like, at all?I think it depends. Take for example J.K. Rowling; my own issues with her works always included that she seemed to have a very regressive, limited worldview, an ugly reactionary aspect that I was baffled others weren’t turned off by. All the time since I came to that conclusion in, like, 2002, folks have been slowly realizing how true that is. People often tell on themselves via their art (sometimes this is even arguably a positive thing for the artistic work, where unintentionally the art is elevated because it so clearly displays a type of person or worldview; the recent canonical example is probably Bradley Whitford delivering the line “I would’ve voted for Obama for a third term if I could” and sincerely agreeing with the sentiment, being in that moment exactly the kind of person being eviscerated by the film).
I haven’t AV Clubbed in years for this exact reason and I expect this exact thing to be 90-some percent of the comments. I was reading about cars, missed a click by accident, and here we are. Same old shit.The AV Club hates media. That’s their whole thing. They even had a column, once upon a time. It later became in infographic.“In my day, we’d wish firsties to die in two fires! DITF, we’d say!” Remember when firsties got canceraids? Pepperidge farm remembers!
He’s really only got one song, he just produces it in different ways.
I mean it’s ok…not great. It’s fine if you are into that sort of thing, which I never really was.
You are not.
This time last year, I was working a job that involved reviewing a ton of pop music for streaming services (long story). We spent almost all of January listening to R. Kelly because the 2nd part of the Lifetime documentary had aired, and I’m guessing viewers ran to his music to confirm facts. It was miserable. I almost walked right out and never came back.
Since then, I’ve been stuck in that weird place where I’m like, “R. Kelly is a monster who belongs in jail, but he’s also a mediocre songwriter so fuck him for that too.”
At my best friend’s wedding, i had to walk up to the DJ when he was on his 2nd R.Kelly song and flash the article that he had just been indicted(same day!). But it is hard to do a mid 90’s megamix without some Kelly. or Color me Badd, either. Seriously, who comes to Hawaii and gets arrested for spousal abuse the day after they give a concert. WTF!?
About the most charitable I can be on the subject was that he had generally excellent taste in backing musicians and if you can hire Dave Ogilvie and Trent Reznor to produce your album it’s probably gonna sound really good. But there’s “I’m building on the foundation of my influences” and then there’s “my entire act is a pastiche of older, better artists and adds nothing to them but omnipresent commercial cynicism” and Manson was always 100% in the latter category.
Too bad they couldn’t turn him into a less terrible singer
Autotune has its limits!
“my entire act is a pastiche of older, better artists and adds nothing to them but omnipresent commercial cynicism”So you just described modern rap and RnB, in a nutshell.
So, he took something that was prevalent throughout the music industry (“my entire act is a pastiche of older, better artists and adds nothing to them but omnipresent commercial cynicism”) and hit upon the idea of applying it to a genre not already flooded by the same scam at the time, basically.
that’s a perfect summary. and that’s probably why he was so popular.
at the very least, he may have turned a few young folks on to [insert artist here].
i grew up with metal, so i was somewhat desensitized to the satan-gore schtick long before he came out. but honestly, seeing the ‘sweet dreams’ video for the first time scared the crap out of me.
“my entire act is a pastiche of older, better artists and adds nothing to them but omnipresent commercial cynicism”There’s many people who have said that about NIN as well.
I feel like that was a take you could somewhat reasonably have about Pretty Hate Machine (in fact I think I recall describing it as “Sony’s My First Coil” which is obviously hugely unfair but also not entirely untrue, also I am very old) but by the time we got to The Downward Spiral it was reasonably clear that like him or not, Trent was at least trying to follow his own muse. YMMV.It also helps that the various elders of the scene seemed to mostly like and get along with Reznor, or at least treated him with something other than bemused contempt.
Skinny Puppy was the band I usually saw referenced when people were accusing Trent of being derivative
Yeah, although I always felt like Coil was the better comparison, since Trent was never trying to be as abrasive as Skinny Puppy and from Coil you get the goth/melodic influence.(I was lucky enough to see NIN on their original US tour with Meat Beat Manifesto and jesus fuck that was a ferocious show.)
You’re absolutely right and am not here to defend him, but his career is doing just fine off of that. And he most
likely makes money as a producer, licensing of his old music, lending
songs to music soundtracks, etc. I’d say he’s still pretty relevant in
the metal/rock scene.
Relevant, yes. No doubt about that. It’s no secret that a lot people don’t care if it’s just a polished turd as long it’s polished.
I mean…no but “The Beautiful People” does have a very catchy guitar riff so there’s that I guess?To me it’s like “Down” by 311. There’s some genuinely great guitar hooks in that song that has me enjoy the song way more than I probably should.
i wanted to do a dub version of an iron maiden tune, then had to scrap the idea because it sounded exactly like 311.
Pffft…. I’ve wanted a reggae Bauhaus mashup since the late 1980’s.
C’mon! Give me Bela Lugosi’s Dread!
We booed him off stage in Chicago at ozzfest 97. there was a near riot when he tried to take the stage at in ohio on that tour. A lot of us have always hated his crap
Doing god’s work there. 🙂
I never had particularly strong feelings about his original music, but I definitely got sick of his 80s synthpop covers that always sounded *exactly* how you expected them to when you read the artist itle combination.
I will contend that MM does excellent covers. Close enough to the original with his “creepy sex offender” vibe layered on. Rob Zombie should cover his influences so well.Of course he’s a terrible person.
You might prefer Marilyn Mozzarella https://youtu.be/se1b3Vh_VhU
That was hilarious. Thank you very much!
Most of it is garbage. But he has a few songs that are great.
Now, hold on, “Germs” is pretty goo—wait, never mind, that song is Weird Al spoofing NIN. Yeah, Marilyn Manson sucks.
*Raises hand* I always thought it was just the worst.
There’s never been a safer time to say we’ve never been fans!Seriously though, when he was getting big, I was getting back into real metal, and getting into bands that made me feel genuinely uncomfortable for actual good reasons.
Meanwhile Marilyn Manson was on a Donahue episode about the dangers of that scary new thing “moshing”, and also his music was terrible.
That’s a pretty good description of MM: “Someone who thinks he’s dangerous, but winds up on Donahue.”
No. Many people think so. I happen to like a lot of his stuff, particularly the early stuff.
Protip: Whenever you think you’re the only one…you’re not.
I genuinely loved Mechanical Animals & felt like it was a real artistic evolution for him. Like he could have kept going and evolving and become a modern-day Bowie. Then he chickened out & reverted right back to his former persona because his mutant fans didn’t think he was being “goth” anymore.
It’s almost like idolizing the famous for what they do instead of who they are is a bad idea. It’s almost like dating a self described satanic drug abuser/alcoholic musician is a poor choice. Who would’ve thought? If the allegations are true he should be in prison and the people that dated him and kept dating him should be in a re-education camp to teach the stupid out of them.
I’m fully behind cancel culture if it rids us of Marilyn Manson
Most of the time when someone is cancelled, it just means they were finally being held accountable for their actions. It’s a shame that “cancel culture” has such a negative connotation.
Worse, cancel culture means “this person isn’t ACTUALLY facing any kind of repercussions for their actions, so now the last available form of justice is Twitter justice and they might lose a whole book deal, but I guess it’s better than them getting a statue somewhere in the deep south”
That’s not cancel culture. Like you said, that’s being held accountable for your actions.Cancel culture is an Ottawa U literature teacher harassed and doxed for pronouncing the ‘N Word’ in the right context during class, because a white person is apparently forbidden to do so now even in Education, and then not receiving the support of the administration because the students associations are run by SJWs.Cancel culture is McGiil students allowed to skip any books they deem offensive in a French literature class, without having to take into account the era in which they were written. And that’s the compromise the University’s administration came up with, the students wanted the teacher’s head on a platter.Cancel culture is a black female singer being harassed and literally canceled because the damn traitor collaborated with a white male writer and director for a show about slavery.Cancel culture is the national Canadian TV network removing a 30 year old episode from its streaming platform as soon as someone writes a (unjustified) complaint instead of analyzing the situation and putting up a warning at the beginning of the episode.I’m just giving Canadian examples because they’re closer to me, and we’re not even the damn birthplace of that regressive and extremist mentality.
Almost no one means any of that when discussing cancel culture
Where I live, almost everyone talks about it this way.But then again, I’m not American. I’m grateful for that.
You should be. But also, the larger cultural conversation about cancel culture is very much about the Louis CKs and Marilyn Mansons.
That’s among the things I mean when talking about it. So that’s at least two..
Yeah, anyone who uses “SJW” is such a bad faith actor that I cannot, in any way, believe that you give a flying fuck about any of the examples you listed here. And your bullshit complaint about white people and the n word sort of HEAVILY supports that theory.
The recent events with Tekashi 6ix9ine reminded me that it’s actually really hard to “cancel” someone. R. Kelly was a practicing pedophile for 20 years, and we was only dropped by his label and management after he stopped having hits.
Chris Brown is also an earlier example of this. Try as most of might, his insane stans kept him in hits. Thankfully his audience aged up and stopped buying music.
When did Chapelle do his R Kelly skits? It seems so long ago.
R. KELLY: How can you make a video ‘bout peein’ on somebody?
CHAPELLE: How can you make a video about peein’ on somebody?!
Cancel culture is just a whiny synonym for boycott imo
Shit I thought we were rid of him decades ago. It took a scroller ad at the bottom of a page and insomniac tapping to bring me here.
If you don’t know what you are doing by 19, you deserved to be raped.
Wait…Marilyn Manson is a fucking asshole?!I’m shocked.
Manson was always a music-industry hologram imitating actual trailblazers,
but who’s narcissistic enough to believe his own PR, thinking he’s on
the cutting edge. Abusing women was part of that.
Abusing women is cutting edge? I’m pretty sure it’s been around for a while.
I mean…Jimmy PageDavid BowieJerry Lee LewisR. KellyTed Nugent (with Courtney Love of all people)Anthony KeidasIggy Pop (wrote a song about it)so it’s been around for quite awhile when it comes to A-Line acts.
He’s got to be the #1 artist among the incel crowd, right?
I don’t think so. He’s not really relevant outside 90s kids wanting to shock their dads, is he? Absolutely nothing is more dated than something that was once a controversy. Incels just hate whatever’s popular. They don’t actually like anything. Their entire ethos is defined by wanting to be the square-jawed high school quarterback with all the cheerleaders worshipping them.
I think it’s more accurate to say that incels hate whatever it is they desire. So they hate the men who are the kind of men they wish they could be and they hate women too. I imagine they would have hated MM, because he is rich and famous and has girlfriends. If they thought about him at all.
If you don’t know what you are doing by 19, you deserved to be raped.
Fuck… this one hurts to have confirmed, even if it was pretty obvious before today. I’ve always been a massive fan, I took a lot of influence from him in my own singing and writing styles, his references in his lyrics took me down major artistic and philosophical reading rabbit holes… in short, his work means a lot to me and it breaks my heart that I now have to do the whole “art from artist separation” thing with him every time I pop an album on.Honestly, I should have seen it when Eat Me Drink Me came out… that album was weird and thematically concerning on a number of levels. Then the bizarre, violent interviews he started giving in subsequent years should have tipped me off for sure, but again, I assumed drugs and trolling. The abuse detailed in his book? Trolling, that’s what he does, right? He’s writing as Marilyn, not Brian, right?Yeah, I had pretty big blinders on. This just sucks, straight out. Thank god I put off the MM Omega symbol tattoo I wanted. I’ll always love his music, but fuck him as a person.
Sorry that you have bad taste in music
It’s fine, much better than being one of those people that shits on others for liking something they don’t. Those are the ones I feel truly awful for.
your take on who to fell sorry for is as bad as your taste in music
Not sure what you’re trying to get out of this, but that’s twice that you’ve swung for it and missed. Are you hoping I’ll be mad? I don’t listen to music to get attention from others, so you’re taking the wrong angle there. Do you need some help insulting me? Let me know if you do.
You seem like an asshole. I was going to say “you seem fun” in a sarcastic way but I’d be making light of how awful you truly are. Anyway, you are a twat.
Thank you, I try
Why are you such a garbage human being? Why is your life so empty that the only joy you can possibly achieve in your sad, pointless existence is to try to make people feel bad for liking things you don’t? It just makes you seem pathetic and worthless and, I bet, if you died tomorrow, no one would even be upset you were gone. That’s really sad and you still have time to turn things around and stop being a piece of shit.
my like or dislike of garbage music is irrelevant. you should feel bad for liking this garbage music
I’m not even a fan of his, other than the albums Trent Reznor wrote for him. I just think you would make the world an infinitely better place by guzzling a gallon of bleach. Because we don’t need people in the world who think their musical tastes somehow make them better than other people. No one could give a fuck what you like or dislike. But you decided to smear your intellectual feces all over the conversation and I just had to tell you how worthless you were. You can be better, but you obviously don’t want to be, so get to that bleach instead.
Man people really come to the defense of the tasteless that like shitty musicians. This is just one odd cult. His music is shitty and your taste in music sucks.
You’ve become very boring, but I figured I’d try an experiment. If it doesn’t work, I have no need to further respond to you, but I’d love to hear what you think good music is. Please do provide us with some artists and songs you happen to enjoy. Enlighten us with what we should be listening to, instead of bands you dub shitty. And no, saying, “Anyone but Marilyn Manson” does not count as an acceptable answer. Tell us, oh musical guru, what rare eclectic gems are in burner’s playlist?
Easy start with music that isnt Manson.there’s your answer, even fit your rule
Yup. You are as cowardly as I predicted you’d be and gave the exact answer I knew you’d do, because you’re a worthless stain on the taint of humanity. Alright. You’re dismissed. No more attention for you.
cowardly is a weird take. I followed your silly rules and didn’t type the words you asked me not to…You on the other hand couldn’t even stick to your promise and are still engaging with me.
unfortunately this is taking away from the truth Manson is a bad artist, his music is crap and his fans should feel bad for liking him
Man people really come to the defense of the tasteless that like shitty musicians. This is just one odd cult. His music is shitty and your taste in music sucks.
For fucks sake, just stop. You’re pathetic.
Sorry your bad taste makes you feel bad.oh and no
Manson’s music sucks but I’m not so self-conscious about my own taste in music that I have to bag on others. Fuck and off.
but you are so self-conscious about your ability to shtipost that you have to bag on others…thats just sadoh and no i wont
LOL you’re a sad little dude.
See still self self-conscious about your inability to shit post, that is sad
What is shit posting?
No, he’s right, You have awful taste in music.
Oh no, whatever will I do. I mean, other than continue to listen to the music I enjoy and having a chuckle knowing that two random dipshits are mad about it.
Don’t be shit.
No
Okay, prickwad. Have fun.
As someone who also enjoys the asshole’s music (a holdover from being a dork in the late 90s), this is the perfect response. His music has some good hooks and excellent production, and I’ve been a sucker for that shit for like 22 years. But it’s also dogshit.
Sorry that you have horrible takes to a valid post.
Remember how people hated hipsters? That’s you. Good job being 20 years late to being a fashion asshole.
damn ,fuck what people say, so easy to say MM sucks (as a musician, not a person), he was just a fad, etc but he and his band were damn fine musicians, I recently revisited Portrait and that shit still sounds fresh, as does Antichrist and my all time fave album, Mechanical Animals. It’s because of Manson that I took a deep dive into stuff like Bolan, Bowie, Thin Lizzy, Eno, Throbbing Gristle, Gary Numan, etc.
Thats a great point. Manson and NIN helped me learn about Gary Numan, Bowie…
I was never a fan of Marilyn Manson, because I was an indie kid from way back and too cool for school and all that. Even so, if he got you to open up your ears and look up other records, well, that’s something I’m totally cool with, irrespective of my own preferences.
I relistened to Portrait recently too and was pretty flabbergasted at how embarrassing it is.
I was never a diehard but I LOVED mechanical animals. More of a NIN guy. Its shitty for folks to be like “well, he always sucked” or even “well DUH.” The first isn’t relevant and obviously he had a lot of fans and the second, no, it’s not always that way. His persona didn’t have to be his reality. Sorry man.
This is exactly what the world needs: more people thinking they can spot a monster just by looking at him. Hindsight is 20/20.
You nailed it.
Not Marilyn Manson…he seemed so normal to me.
Someone you’re trying to get rid of calls and says he will kill himself if you don’t come back. Uh, bye-bye. Problem solved.
I thought this had been well known for years. He was always an abusive pile of shit…who didn’t know this?I am still proud of my part in booing him off of stage at Ozzfest back in the 90’s
I read his autobiography multiple times in high school so, yeah, not even remotely shocked that’s he’s an abusive piece of shit, because he’s always been an abusive piece of shit.
The only thing surprising about any of this is how long its taken for anyone to speak up about it.
I never got Marilyn Manson. I mean, I grew up in the 90’s—I loved the Smashing Pumpkins and the Cure and the Prodigy and a bunch of other fairly mainstream weirdos—and I can’t even remember caring enough to actively dislike Marilyn Manson, or even hearing a single song of theirs, or even noticing them on MTV. They were like the Insane Clown Posse, if the Insane Clown Posse didn’t have that one song everyone knows. But even then, they were somehow lamer.
So, to summarize—my main points are that: (A) I’m cool; and (B) they suck. But also that: (C) I’ve always been cool; and (D) They’ve always sucked. Thanks for reading.
I went to high school with one girl who was really into him. I was a complete straight edge good girl, but even I saw Manson as a try hard. Oh, yes, piercings, makeup, you rebel you. The whole goth, goth-adjacent, thing even then seemed like a moral panic from adults. At the same time as Kurt Cobain and Courtney Love, with a totally different aesthetic. And video games. When they tried to act like Columbine happened because of Marilyn Manson it was the dumbest thing ever. I think the urban legend that Manson used to be an 80s sitcom star illustrates exactly what most teenagers thought of his whole schtick.
“I was a complete straight edge good girl, but even I saw Manson as a try hard.”
And today you learned that he actually *is* a fucking monster, yet somehow you still feel smug about being wrong about him.
Good on you.
He was a try hard. I went to college with a girl who went to high school with him, and she said he was a dorky loner asshole till he flipped the switch one day into full goth asshole. *shrug*
Yeah, Manson always seemed really try-hard, especially on his . . . was it Jerry Springer appearances? Yeah, arguing with offended middle Americans about how there’s great intelligence behind the things that offended them? Super cool, buddy.When, really, the only cool thing Manson gave to the world was Steven Colbert’s performance as Buddha Stalin on “Strangers With Candy.”
He might’ve gotten onto Springer too, but I know he was on Donahue.
That’s the one.
Man, Billy Corgan has aged SUPER poorly.
Nobody takes Smashing Pumpkins seriously anymore.
If you think Billy Corgan has aged poorly, don’t look up Matthew Sweet
His new stuff or his early 90’s stuff. Because Gish and Siamese Dream are still great.
I was into his stuff at first, but the more I listened the less I liked. Each new album was less appealing than the last. The clincher for me was probably seeing him live at the Big Day Out in ‘99. Same BDO that had Soulfly (who also performed from Sepultura hits), TISM, Regurgitator, The Living End…Imagine seeing all those other bands, then watching pasty, doughy Brian hamming it up, telling us he came to us from California with a boasting tone like we were peons in the presence of a king, shoving the mic down his stage undies and grinding on it…I was a social awkward teenager who was pretty invested in the aesthetic of music at the time. I appreciated the music too, but I also restricted my library to the stuff that was bonding me with other guys my age. Seeing Manson live, especially contrasted with those other bands, was probably one of the things that started waking me up from that. Plus bands I wasn’t super into because they weren’t part of my crowd’s repertoire were rocking like hell and blowing me away. Seeing the line-up the next year – NIN, Blink 182, Foo Fighters, Spiderbait, etc – drove that point home even further.
Everyone knew this already right? The only reason this is coming back is because Manson has a role in American Gods this season.
On topic: I hope Evan Rachel Wood is able to get some peace and closure out of coming forward and Manson deserves whatever retribution follows from this. Off topic: I’m getting concerned about Doug Stanhope. His two biggest celebrity pals are Marilyn Manson and Johnny Depp. Maybe he should take a closer look into the guys he’s friends with?
One would think the fact that he’s been friends with Manson for so long would give the Depp stans pause. Alas, it won’t.
Didn’t he also agree to say that it was he, not Louis CK, who masturbated in front of female subordinates at work, back when it was heavily rumored it was CK but it hadn’t been confirmed?Imagine having so much power over someone you can get them to admit to sexual harassment you didn’t even do.
He said it was him, as joke, he never “agreed” to do it like it was some martyr mission CK sent him on or something. Also, for accuracy, the women were not workplace subordinates.
They worked either on his shows or in his industry, were way less powerful than him and one bad word from him could have seriously derailed their careers. That’s subordinate as far as I’m concerned.
well I guess if you’re happy to move the goalposts you can never be wrong
Sigh, yeah. I have similar feelings about Paul Bettany — to the best of my knowledge nobody has ever so much as hinted at him doing anything particularly bad to anyone, but he’s besties with Depp and was the other party in all of Depp’s (at absolute best) deeply creepy texts about how he wanted to fuck up Amber Heard and… you are the company you keep, y’know?
Is he besties with Depp? I’d never heard that? And I only know of the one creepy text which he clearly interpreted as a joke before Depp made it super creepy.
Yeah, he’s close with Depp.
From what I understood, Bettany was definitely not on board with Depp’s comments about Heard, and was trying to tone him down, but Depp kept trying to escalate it. If they’re still besties, they may not be for long.
I will say that in real life I only have slightly more respect for the people who remain friends with people I know to be abusers than the abusers themselves. And just to pre-empt it, if I know know about what happened then it isn’t exactly a well kept secret.
I really hate to rely on the old “how somebody seems”, thing because how somebody seems ain’t shit of course, but I don’t imagine the odds are terrible on Stanhope having some pretty grim skeletons in his closet.
I mean . . . . are any of us thinking Doug Stanhope is a super nice guy off stage?
There’s a certain actor whose name I won’t even type (because NOTHING has been alleged about him) that I’m really worried about, due to his friendship with and proximity to Bryan Singer. God, I hope nothing ever comes out about that guy, it’d be genuinely heartbreaking.(mind you, if this person ever did anything untoward I do hope it comes out, because justice for victims matters more than my hero worship. I’m just really, really hoping I’m wrong)
Always gotta be concerned about adults trying so hard to be as edgy as a 14 year old.
Rose McGowan has been a big defender of her ex-Marilyn Manson. I’ll be interested to see what her take is on this given her own background and activism.
Well, right now she’s busy saying impeaching Trump is a stunt and coronavirus lockdowns have to end even if it means people will die so I’m guessing we should lower our expectations accordingly.
She’s very inconsistent.
Rose may have a broken “character judgement” antenna. She keeps getting f*cked over by people in her life, so her view of what constitutes a “good” relationship might be skewed. Manson probably treated her abusively but she’s not in the headspace yet to recognize it as abuse.
And to be clear, I wasn’t saying that her situation may not have been different. Every predator doesn’t prey on every single person in their life. I’d just be interested to see what she does in this situation given her past statements about Manson specifically.
Didn’t he essentially force her to wear that infamous “dress” to the VMAs (she was basically wearing pasties and a thong under a completely see-through number)?
I think it’s possible to acknowledge that McGowan did the world a service by shining a light on Harvey Weinstein and was genuinely victimized by him… but is also a deeply mentally ill person who’s life is in no way improved by additional media attention now that Weinstein is in jail. Let’s all wish her peace and happiness, far out of the camera’s eye.
Well said.
I absolutely agree and agree that she doesn’t owe anyone a statement on this and it’s possible to be right about one thing and wrong about another.I’d just be interested to hear a deeper discussion of her relationship with him because it seems to be such an outlier. Doesn’t mean she should or has to do so. I’m just wondering if it is a situation where she does have a skewed perspective or a situation where Manson acted much different.
Yeah, I think Rose McGowan’s perspective on this is potentially very important for getting a full picture. I wouldn’t be surprised if for example he acted very protective and comforting towards her—him knowing full well the role he normally played in relationships and acting deliberately different in her case. And having it out in public that abusers aren’t just going around always acting that way, but rather can be very different to different people, is arguably an important point for many people out there to understand. Too often people take “well I never saw them do anything wrong!” as 100% exculpatory, so clearly our popular conception of who commits abuse of other human beings needs refinement and nuance.
This is a really insightful take. Well done.
If you don’t know what you are doing by 19, you deserved to be raped.
It’s a start:
She also mentioned in a video reply yesterday that he never acted that way with her, but that fact doesn’t matter and she stands with all the other women who have come forward.
Yep, her response here was good.
Waiting for Josh Saviano to issue a statement saying once again he is not Marilyn Manson.
Westworld now feels a little more “real.” That must’ve been an incredibly difficult role.
If you don’t know what you are doing by 19, you deserved to be raped.
Wait. The self-proclaimed Antichrist Superstar isn’t a nice guy?!Show business normalized this?!Can we please apologize to Christians in the 90s. Turned out they were right about everything; from Teletubbies to Marilyn Manson.
I would surprised if Manson was not a sadistic weirdo. His whole demeanor and his words, both on stage and off, scream out psychotic nutjob.
Hmm, some white dude who likes pretending to be the antichrist and really relishing saying the N-Bomb on his albums?
Oh well, flush this turd into the prison please.
Surprising no one.
Headline in 2045:Early 2020s recording artist “The Rapist”, famous for his hit single “I Like to Rape Teens” accused of abusive behavior by ex-girlfriend.
When I found out they were together I was so shocked. I do not follow celebrities very much so I was way behind the times when I found out they were together. The only reasonable explanation to me was that she was brainwashed or had some serious issues beforehand and this was her acting out. For a woman as talented and beautiful as she was and for how bad he treated her I didn’t see another explanation. I am sad that I was right about the brainwashing. I was hoping that behind closed doors he was actually a decent person and that their public life was more part of an act to keep up his persona. I hope she continues to get the help she needs to get better. I never liked the guy or his music. I thought most of what he did was just an adult version of a child screaming, “Look at me, look at me.”
Wasn’t there a Homer Simpson quote that goes something like “Who would have thought that the strangest person in the world could have something something?”
I still think Danny Masterson holds the title for Least Surprising Celebrity Allegation.
Whoops! It looks like Marilyn Manson got dropped by his label! I can’t wait ‘til he shows up on Tucker Carlson as another unfortunate victim of a Twitter mob. I can see it now: “Doesn’t this drug-using, Bible-abusing, groupie-banging shock-rocker androgynous freak deserve the benefit of the doubt? Is anyone safe from social justice warriors?” Go for it, Carlson! Your audience will love it.
We should have listened to The New Radicals all those years ago.
Can’t believe they cut that verse out of the Inauguration performance, the cowards!
If you don’t know what you are doing by 19, you deserved to be raped.
I hope Evan Rachel Wood goes all these violent delights have violent ends on his goth ass.
Brian Warner is a POS LARP’er. Always has been.
I’m amazed at the human emotional spectrum. For years I though I knew what disgust was, because the lame attention needing hack Marilyn Manson made me feel it. This try hard clown was just aching to be edgy in the most plastic and fake ways possible. I was disgusted by his unoriginality his crap music, his low budge haunted house aesthetic. I though that was as disgusted as I could be. Much like having a child can increase your capacity to love so that it you can feel more intense bonds than you ever thought possible finding out someone is an abusive, brainwashing, torturer expands ones ability to feel revulsion. Thanks Mr. Manson, you’ve created a new far lower floor in my spectrum of human respect. Ugh and that name, that dumb ass name. It’s like Merlyn Monroe and Charles Manson… get it? Get it guys? She’s a really glamourous star and he’s a cult leader! Are you shocked yet? Am I edgy? Are you shocked? Please notice me? Pleeeeaaaasseeeeee!
This doesn’t surprise me nearly as much as Bill Cosby. It’s actually perfectly in character.
I don’t know Evan personally, but I do know her dad, who’s a really fantastic guy, and hilarious. I don’t want to share it here because I don’t know if he ever talked about it publicly, but he told me about the first time he met Brian, and suffice it to say that Brian was every bit the dickhole edgelord he appeared to be, and her dad was absolutely not having it.Listening to her testimony and reading her statement were absolutely heartbreaking.
It’s always the ones you most expect
I just had a weird moment and maybe a revelation. I saw the title of the article and immediately thought to myself, “Why are so many celebrities I like turning out to be abusers. What does that say about me?” Which immediately led me to, “I wonder what it was between them that made him abuse her?” like there could be a good reason or excuse for abusing anyone. Was my hot take the reason people are afraid to come forward or ask for help when they find themselves in an abusive relationship? Now I have to think about what caused me to immediately jump towards why my immediate thought was what it was.
https://www.npr.org/sections/therecord/2015/07/15/422964981/the-cruel-truth-about-rock-and-rollManson won’t be the only one we have to cancel. Jimmy Page was a scumbag too in ways that Manson could not have imagined.
When can we talk about rap, by the way?
When are whores going to start taking some responsibility.
Why does Marilyn Manson even need female companionship? I have it on good authority from the boy’s locker room that he is capable of performing fellatio on himself.
I noticed today that Marilyn Manson is doubling down on his “lies, all lies!” defense. When five women have come out with allegations, that sort of response will change exactly zero minds.
Note to females/males/other. If a freak rock musician invites you to his room, you should not plan on playing Monopoly. There will be booze, drugs, sex in all your orifices and whatever else is going on. Plan on it. So essentially, plan on playing Risk.