Hawkeye’s premiere is a Christmas treat
Hailee Steinfeld steals the show as Kate Bishop meets Clint Barton in Marvel's latest Disney+ show
TV Reviews Hawkeye
In their own ways, the first three live-action Marvel Disney+ shows each felt like they were aiming for something epic. There was the genre-bending, death-defying sitcom premise of WandaVision; the establish-a-new-Captain-America worldbuilding of The Falcon And The Winter Solider; and the explosive multiversal antics of Loki. Across its first two episodes, however, Hawkeye takes a decidedly different approach. This is much more of a small-scale Christmas romp than a world-changing epic adventure. It’s got the stakes of a Marvel Netflix show mixed with the comedic tone of an Ant-Man movie. Coupled with some charming central performances, that makes for a refreshing change of pace, not to mention a fitting tonal match for a low-key street-level Avenger who lacks a clear brand.
What writer/creator Jonathan Igla smartly realizes is that the show’s grumpy, grounded title character works best when he’s bouncing off someone—whether that’s making small talk with Natasha Romanoff mid-battle or taking on a mentor role to Wanda Maximoff, also mid-battle. Here his new partner in crime is Hailee Steinfeld’s Kate Bishop, one of the most immediately likable additions to the MCU in ages. Steinfeld doesn’t bow to the MCU’s quippy house style so much as fold it around her own unique deadpan timing. And that lends Hawkeye a comedic flair that feels totally unique, even amongst Marvel’s goofier entries—one helped along by Saturday Night Live and Documentary Now! director Rhys Thomas, who helms both of these episodes.
Plotwise, there’s not a ton to these first two entries, which are more about establishing a world and creating a vibe than laying out some big complicated central mystery. Clint Barton, for one, would prefer to put the mysteries behind him and just spend a nice Christmas with his newly un-dusted family. He is—as Roger Murtaugh famously put it—getting too old for this shit. And it’s clear he’d rather put the superheroing aside and just enjoy a simpler life (at least as long as it doesn’t involve going to see more than one act of Rogers: The Musical).
Unfortunately, while Clint may be through with the past, the past isn’t through with him. He’s specifically haunted by the time he spent murdering crime lords as a vigilante named Ronin during the Blip. It was a big part of the reason he thought he should be the one to sacrifice himself to get the Soul Stone in Avengers: Endgame. Natasha fought to selflessly taking that plunge instead, however, which clearly weighs heavily on Clint’s conscience. So even though the public doesn’t know that Hawkeye and Ronin are one and the same, Clint can’t just ignore it when a new figure pops up wearing the Ronin ninja costume. He feels duty bound to step in and clean up his old mess.
Which is what connects him to Kate Bishop, who’s really first and foremost the star here. Since we already know what Hawkeye’s whole everyman superhero deal is, the bulk of these first two episodes are dedicated to fleshing out Kate—who’s basically got Batman’s backstory mixed with Spider-Man’s personality. Growing up megawealthy didn’t protect her from pain, as she learned when her beloved dad was (seemingly) killed during the battle of New York back in 2012. But Kate’s wealthy lifestyle did allow her to pursue an impressive list of extracurriculars (archery, fencing, martial arts, gymnastics, etc). Plus she owns her own apartment and a custom purple archery suit, not to mention all sorts of fancy tracking tech thanks to her mom Eleanor (Vera Farmiga), who runs a high-end security company. Not too bad for an aspiring 22-year-old superhero.
Yet Kate isn’t defined by the brooding burden of Bruce Wayne or the entitled arrogance of fellow wealthy superhero Tony Stark. Instead she’s a bubbly, sarcastic, impulsive young adult—one who’s as comfortable leaping into battle as she is asking Clint to sign her bow and arrow. Steinfeld gives Kate a charmingly guileless confidence, like when she avoids getting caught during a makeshift undercover mission by pretending to be offended that the manager doesn’t know her name. We don’t often see superheroes at this over-confident college-age young adult stage, and it makes for a good match for a superhero origin story. These episodes also strike a nice balance between making Kate a fallible rookie and giving her some solid skills as well—like when she holds her own against some Eastern European gangsters long enough to barricade herself inside a car.
Equally importantly, Steinfeld and Renner have wonderful chemistry together too. Kate doesn’t let her Hawkeye fandom stop her from giving Clint notes on his branding (or lack thereof) and sending him negging text messages. Clint, meanwhile, treats her like an overeager kid on the high school softball team he’s coaching. He’ll grumble about her, but he cares enough to lend a hand when she bandages her wound incorrectly too. It’s all very endearing. So even though it’s a pretty big coincidence that a Hawkeye superfan just happens to unknowingly don the one suit that would get her idol to track her down, it’d take a real Grinch to get too bothered by those sorts of contrivances. We’re here to have fun, not parse plot mechanics.
Even the fact that the bad guys are just called the Tracksuit Mafia suggests that Hawkeye doesn’t plan to get too bogged down in complicated mythology building, which definitely feels like the right choice. (Beyond the Ronin suit, the series’ other MacGuffin is a watch that was found in the wreckage of Avengers Compound.) While there’s clearly something going on with Eleanor, her fiancé Jack (Tony Dalton), and Jack’s uncle Armond III (Simon Callow), it seems like that’s going to be rooted more in the show’s central family theme than in some giant global conspiracy. Really, the biggest stakes here are whether Clint is going to be able to wrap up this mission in time to make it back home for Christmas with his family. (Good to see you again Linda Cardellini!)
Overall, these first two episodes do a nice job teasing some mysteries while putting character and comedy front and center. The action is solid, if not particularly superb, with the wine bottle fight as a highlight. But it’s the Yuletide joy that takes center stage here—with Kate saving and then adopting a one-eyed, pizza-loving dog, and Clint making a LARPer’s day by agreeing to “fight” him in ritual combat. As part of her branding advice, Kate tells Clint that cynical, self-serious stuff is out, and sincere, heart-on-your-sleeve stuff is in. That’s obviously a meta statement of purpose for Hawkeye as well, and that makes it a perfect treat for the holidays.
Stray observations
- I love the David Aja/Matt Fraction-inspired title sequences that start and end these episodes.
- I was going to say that a big campy musical about well-known public figures who died gruesome deaths seems like a stretch too far, even for Broadway, but then I remembered that Diana The Musical exists.
- You can keep your comic book Easter eggs, I’m over here screaming about Adam Pascal popping up in the ensemble of Rogers: The Musical. The ultimate musical theater Roger.
- It’s a nice realistic touch that Clint now uses a hearing aid after years of being surrounded by superhero explosions.
- It’s also a lovely little nod that Clint pulls Black Widow’s “catch and release” kidnapping move from her opening scene in The Avengers—although he doesn’t do it nearly as gracefully as she does.
- About those mysteries: The most obvious route the show could go is that Jack is a red herring and Eleanor is the show’s real big bad. But I’m also curious about Kate’s dad. I don’t think you cast an actor like Brian d’Arcy James for just a two-scene role.
- My other wild swing prediction is that the various Armonds are actually clones of one another.
- I know it’s kind of his thing at this point, but did anyone else get big “Hawkeye’s gonna die” vibes from the scene where he says goodbye to his kids? A really wild swing would be if he somehow sacrifices himself in a way that brings Natasha back. Kevin Feige did recently announce that Marvel is working on a top-secret new project with Scarlett Johansson, even if he claimed it wasn’t Black Widow related…
- “And I fought Thanos.”
292 Comments
“I love the Matt Fraction-inspired title sequences that start and end these episodes.” Matt was the writer, these are David Aja inspired.
Came here to say that, with the caveat that I haven’t seen the show yet.
And Aja is quite upset about the lack of compensation for it he’s gotten, just like Ed Brubaker.
Yep. This is easily fixed by Disney and Artists should always get credit. Aja’s run was flawless, glad it’s getting checked out by more folks now that the show is out. Get that guy a screen credit and some cabbage, it’s overdue and a small thing to do for a huge win for us all as fans.
I only saw Aja’s name in the first episode’s end credits, under “Special Thanks.” Yikes! I’d be upset too.
Came here to say this exact same thing. His art is such a huge influence and despite the title sequence being a nod to his work, I didn’t see his name or credit anywhere. Why not have David Aja work on the title sequence and pay him that way? The art would have been better.
“But-but it’s so hard to pronounce his last naaaaame.”-AV Club
LOL!
Thank you! Really bizarre mistake considering how public Aja has been about getting shafted on this
Thank you! I added Aja’s name as well.
So why did you keep Fraction in? He had nothing to do with that artwork or style
She also omitted to credit the real star of the show: Pizza Dog.
What a monster…
“What writer/creator Jonathan Igla smartly realizes is that the show’s grumpy, grounded title character works best when he’s bouncing off someone …”On the subject of bouncing off someone … a trip down memory lane.
Holy shit!
Fun start, and I’m already disappointed there’s only six episodes ordered. Love Steinfeld, and really hope we see more of her.
Maybe Season 2 can be Kate solo in LA, like the Kelly Thompson Hawkeye series.
The action scenes were slightly disappointing, compared to Falcon/Winter Soldier and the Netflix shows, but I loved the character stuff, even if focusing on the Ronin plot only makes clear how much that whole thing didn’t work in Endgame.
Wait, there’s only 6 episodes!? And they spent one of them on a LARPing tangent?LARPing tangents are what you do in season three of your network procedural when you’ve run out of ideas. They’re not usually what you do when you’ve got to tell a superhero story in only six episodes…
6 episodes for this feels about right. The story feels like it’s relatively low stakes and it’s coasting mostly on the dynamic between Bishop and Barton which you don’t want to ruin by overdoing it. Also Barton clearly has a deadline to get everything done before Christmas which in real life should be around the time episode 6 airs, wrapping it all up nicely.
All together it will end up being around the runtime of a 3 hour movie. They have plenty of time to spare. I’ll happily take this over Netflix’s 13 episode slogs.
I’ll be pretty disappointed if Clint isn’t in season 2. He doesn’t even need to be in every episode, but he should continue to have a presence.
I wouldn’t be surprised if this season ends with him retiring to spend time with his family on the farm, though he could still show up later on.
Yea that would work pretty well. Or if they want to set up the next season have him retire again*, spend Christmas with his family, then on New Year’s day he gets a call from Kate…*I think he’s already retired technically.
You’ll definitely see more of her. She indirectly confirmed she has signed on for a multi-project contract in an interview. I expect in movies, less than more Hawkeye TV shows as they are clearly setting up some version of Young Avengers. That’s basically how Marvel Studios works. Their contracts always have multi-project options.And yeah, the action scenes were pretty muddled. Mainly due to mismatched cuts and a lack of spatial awareness. Good hand to hand combat action scenes, particularly, require a substantial planning to make every cut flow together and allow the viewer to understand where everyone is in relation to each other. The wine cellar fight not only had some obvious mismatched cuts, but it kept swinging the viewer’s POV around haphazardly. Add in the strobe effect and you have indications of a production that wasn’t confident about stringing it all together effectively.
Season 2 Is there a season 2? Wikipedia has it as a limited series, one and done.
One thing that pinged my radar: Clint and his kids left Rogers halfway through and the show had already covered the Battle of New York; so it’s suddenly possible that the events of Endgame — or at least some version of them — were covered in the second half of that show. It’s been bugging me for awhile, wondering how much of that story is public knowledge in-canon beyond the Blip. And tying this version of Kate to the events of BNY and imprinting on Clint is a nice touch, I think; also liked that the opener’s credit sequence gave us the rest of her origin story crisply.
I think my biggest issue thus far is Jack; the character right now is put together a little loudly — he’s like an Evil Paul F. Tompkins, so much so it actually diminishes Eleanor a little for falling for him when she’s a security expert. Unless, as you said, it ends up being her all along. But especially after the ending to episode 2, I’m in for the rest of the ride.
Well, the world believes that Cap either died or is on the moon.
I was wondering about the musical too. If the second half was was Civil War/Engame then there was no way Clint was getting through a re-enactment of all that trauma even if the musical focused on what was public knowledge about Cap. But yes, they haven’t really said what’s commonly known and what’s not beyond Stark dying and Cap disappearing. Do people know they time-traveled?
That’s a very good question. You have to wonder if SWORD or some other agency (ahem) worked with the production to ensure what the Pentagon calls in our universe “positive and” — AHEM — “reasonably accurate” depictions of whatever went on.
Exactly. They may have gotten a cover story about the Avenger battling Thanos, getting the gauntlet, and winning without the details beyond who died (or ‘died’ in Cap’s case). It’s also unclear how much they know about the events of Infinity War beyond the snap happening.
Well keep in mind Darcy in WandaVision seemed to know a lot of detail, such as the fact that Wanda and Carol fought Thanks one on one. The question is whether that’s common knowledge or if she has inside information due to her government work.
I had forgotten about that, but yeah it’s hard to say if it’s inside info or not. Folks might have gotten the broad strokes of the battle though, even if stuff like time travel and Cap’s fate was kept secret.
She is a government contractor who specializes in aliens and is besties with Jane who knows Thor.
Yeah, it took about 10 years to track OBL down, no need to mention time travel-just that it took 5 years to track Thanos down.
Did the Queen and MI6 have creative input into Diana: The Musical?
Honestly? No idea. But BNY sure had a military component if you consider the argument Fury had with the Council. I don’t think it’s a stretch to carry the idea of “consulting” over from our universe:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/mar/09/wandavision-pentagon-propaganda-marvel-disney-fbi
Regarding Eleanor, did anybody else think it was a bit weird she just disappeared in the opening scene once the attack on NY started? I know it would have been all confusion etc etc, but she should still have been found, or at least heard by Kate. Instead, she turns up again randomly oh and we never see what actually happens to Kate’s dad. All very suss.
Agreed! Adds to the theory that she’s into something bad in her own right.
“like an Evil Paul F. Tompkins”Lmao what a perfect description! And yeah he’s too easy a suspect right now. I will be shocked if he actually is evil.
I’ve already narrowed down Armand’s killer to two theories. Theory 1: Jack has been dead the whole time and his corpse is actually being used as a meat puppet by a Sentient Space Tree who plans to marry and fuck Kate’s mom so that she can give birth to Space Tree Jesus. Armand objected to their union even if it was supposed to bring about an ancient Space Tree Prophecy so it killed him.Theory 2: This was obviously the machinations of one of the most dastardly villains in the Marvel Universe…Melf, The Elf With a Gun!
Yeah 616 Jack’s story is BONKERS.
I know you often use whatever justification to post comic book panels/pages even if it’s really out of context, but this might sincerely be my favorite, Las.
I love that you can’t let the sentient space tree thing die.
That’s no elf, that’s a Leprechaun.
Elf with a Gun deserves his own series.
EwaG vs Hit Monkey or gtfo
I’m down for Theory #1. Marvel just brought the Cotati (plant-based aliens) for the Empyre event in 2020….and now we have the Swordsman showing up in an MCU project? It’s all connected, people! [insert conspiracy wall picture here.]
I was never fond of Renner so I went in with low expectations but he’s not being especially grating and Steinfeld is a gift so I’m definitely enjoying it so far.
I haven’t read this yet as I haven’t had the chance to watch the show, but still had to share my delight that it’s Caroline Siede reviewing. I’m excited!
I’m glade Caroline is reviewing this too. I was afraid I was going to open my phone this morning and see a pair of C- grades from one of the other regs. That said I thought ep1 was B+ but ep2 was in the C range. The LARP scene kinda sucked. No real humans, not even hardcore nerds, act like that. And the fireman stealing evidence from a crime scene … so he can LARP with it? It just about derailed the ep. (Role Models … that movie got it right – it was insanely silly, but still logical and kind to its subject. This sequence here was writer’s-roomy.)I did get a pleasant, old-school Disney vibe – like super old school – I’m talking Candleshoe – vibe with the murder mystery. So I’m digging that.
Narrator: It did not in fact, nearly derail the episode. No one really gives a fuck about LARPers.
Harsh Narrator Who Appropriated the Arrested Development Trope to Punch Down on LARPers Thus Confirming Said Trope’s Continued Use is Two Years Past its Sell-By Date. Harsh.
Overall, the LARPing scene didn’t bother me, but I did find it bizarre when he said “This is my only chance to be a hero.” Like, sir, you are literally a firefighter! One of our most universially celebrated heroic professions!
In NEW YORK CITY, even!
True, but how other people see us and how we feel about ourselves doesn’t always align. In a world where super heroes exist and save the world on a semi regular basis, it makes sense that a firefighter might feel like a second rate chump even when he’s out there being a hero every day.
The woman who stopped Clint from being a lookie-loo said that a lot of the LARPers were cops or firemen so in that company, he’s no special hero.To be honest, the most unrealistic part of the entire LARPing scene was the idea that cops and fireman could be civil enough to each other to LARP safely.
Speaking as a LARPer – you are a different person for the weekend and that’s why people do it. You invest a lot of emotion in what happens to your character because you have some control over your storyline (unlike real life). So I totally bought that line.
The guy stealing the suit from a crime scene feels off to me.
If he was a bigger jerk about it, it’d feel a little more natural. I wonder if he was going to be a cop in an earlier draft and someone behind the scenes thought it’d come across as topical/political and changed it.
It did to me as well, at first anyway, but then he was presented as someone who was desperately trying to get some clout in his LARP group, and it was so both comical and weirdly endearing, that it didn’t bother me as much. Logically, it doesn’t make a lot of sense though.
He specifically said superhero, which is very different.
To be fair, he is a firefighter in a world where people still talk about the time a decade ago when an alien army, led by an Actual Literal Norse God, fell out of the sky and got fought off by a WWII super-soldier, another Actual Literal Norse God, a billionaire who basically wears a super-science fighter plane, and so on. (not to dismiss the other Avengers, I just don’t want to belabor the point)On a related note, it tickles me to an unreasonable degree that Rogers: The Musical handwaves Ant-Man into that particular event.
Ant-Man’s appearance in “Rogers: The Musical” gibes with my pet theory of “How Much the Public Knows and How They Know It”:1. Now that Scott is an Avenger he is hearing all of the war stories from before he joined.2. He’s passing those stories on to Luis.3. Luis starts a podcast and charms each Avenger into telling what they know. Under the right circumstances, each of them can be loquacious, so generally they agree. (Besides, the podcast is an opportunity for them to honor the Black Widow’s sacrifice.)4. The podcast inspires the musical. But a full accounting of the events of the previous ten years would require a production as long as the Ring Cycle. Some things have to be cut or condensed, and some characters have to be squeezed into events they never participated.Thus, Ant Man at the Battle of New York.
I can definitely see that. (I can also see the producers of the musical just cramming in Ant-Man with his colorful and marketable suit, rather than explain why he wasn’t there to the people who have to get by on “A guy named Darryl who claims to be Thor’s roommate talked to a podcaster”-level info regarding the team lineup.
“On a related note, it tickles me to an unreasonable degree that Rogers: The Musical handwaves Ant-Man into that particular event.”
Same here, but I thought about it more. One, it looked like a non-white (Asian? I’d have to go back to check) guy playing him, so it could be a nod to an effort to add diversity to the group, as Marvel certainly later did. Two, shit, given his tech, maybe Hank Pym was there the whole time!
I did laugh at Clint’s “That guy wasn’t even there for this” line.
I’ve seen some who would act exactly like that. LARPers HAVE DOUCHEBROS TOO.
Honestly, I don’t see how the LARPers were somehow unrealistic but not the Tracksuit Mafia guys, who seemed like half the cast of Barry was moonlighting on this show. Not that I’m complaining, they were great.
I finally got the chance to watch the episodes and while I recognize that the LARPing was cartoonish, it still made me laugh. It went on slightly longer than strictly necessary, but I’m enjoying world-weary Clint way more than I thought I would. I had a feeling Kate would be great, but to enjoy both of them so much is a pleasant surprise.
They name-checked the fireman LARPer, so I’m thinking he’ll be back. I’ll be more forgiving if there turns out to be a creative callback later. I apologize if this was a minor spoiler b4 you watched the episode.
No worries, I know better than to post something here and then check the comments before watching. The firefighter is Grills! A very different imagining of the character, but I did perk up when I heard the name.
Role Models was amazing.
I want to rock and roll all night
and part of every day.
“And the fireman stealing evidence from a crime scene … so he can LARP with it?”Yea, casually stealing not only evidence from a crime scene, but also just someone else’s stuff, took me aback. I guess it seemed harmless enough, and Clint was relieved that it was a guy like that who had it, that he decided to be nice about it, but I would have been a bit more pissed. Especially being forced to go through all these hoops to get back property that was literally stolen from me.
You mean Sam Barasanti. The guy that usually reviews MCU stuff while actively hating it.
Or while actively ignoring it, leading him to get plot details wrong in his reviews & then complain about things that didn’t actually happen.
There IS kind of a Candleshoe vibe to this; there’s a definite “I need to find this and then this and… oh shit, it was sold to somebody else so now I need to get to the train station fight LARPers!”
Same. I love most of her reviews, but there are certain people I can do without.
On the one hand it was definitely an enjoyable piece of television.On the other hand it kind of felt like I’d already seen it all before?Like, the trailers seem to come from almost-entirely just these first two episodes so all the “cool” moments and jokes were just “yeah that was fun the first time I saw it” for me.Credit to the advertising for not spoiling the rest of the show and focusing just on the premier three episodes (I imagine the trick arrow chase scene is in the next episode), but also eh, it was fun enough but nothing topped the clocktower scene yet for me and that was right at the start of the first episode lol.
Hailee Steinfeld is also quite good in Dickinson over on Apple+, if you want to see more of her comedic+dramatic chops.
Between these two shows and Arcane, she’s basically ruling November.
Arcane has been a huge surprise for me. I heard about it – an animated show on Netflix, based on characters from a video game I’ve never played – and thought, “Yeah, not for me.” I kept hearing good things about it, though, and so I gave it a look. The art is incredible, and the writing and voice work are top-notch. I’m honestly stunned that it’s this good.
I haven’t watched it yet but the trailer blew me away with how good it looked.
Tony “Lalo” Dalton? ? I’m almost hoping he isn’t the bad guy because my contempt for Lalo on Better Call Saul is at 11. I don’t need him to be another bad guy. Clint seeing the actress playing Nat in the musical was rough. Please tell me one of the songs in Rogers: The Musical is “That’s America’s Ass”.
We can probably program the playlist right now:
“I Can Do This All Day” – Steve fighting the bully in the alley
“This War Needs a Little Guy,” – Erskine and Steve
“Star Spangled Man” – The USO Tour
“I’ll Teach You To Dance,” – Peggy and Steve’s Song
“End of the Line,” – Bucky and Steve’s Song
“I Had a Date,” – The Revival
“Genius, Playboy, Billionaire, Philanthropist,” – Basically, Stark’s “Wait for It”
“Red In My Ledger,” – Nat’s Song
“The Other Guy,” – Hulk’s Song
“You People Are So Tiny,” – Thor
“Glorious Purpose,” – Loki’s “Be Prepared” number
“I Can Do This All Day,” – First Act Showstopper – (We saw this in the Hawkeye show)
“On Your Left,” Falcon and Steve’s song
“The Price of Freedom is High,” Winter Soldier Finale
“Avengers… Assem…” The end of Ultron
“Civil War Opening” – All instrumental rendition of Deaths of Wakandans
“Breaking Up The Set,” – Tony and Steve’s argument
“You’re Gonna Come With Us,” The Airport Fight
“So Was I” The final fight in Civil War
“We Don’t Trade Lives,” – Infinity War
“Avengers… ASSEMBLE!”- Reprise
Really great work, but I can tell you that before we even get to previews, the producers are going to be breathing down our necks to cut the show down to two and a half hours, max, including intermission.
Let’s look at combining Thor and Hulk’s songs into one big comedic number, “A Friend From Work,” about how they fight each other just as often as they fight the bad guys. Then, because we need some more big dance numbers, Wanda and Vision have their dream ballet, and Quicksilver obviously needs a big tap dance number fighting the Ultron drones.
You’re going to make me kill my darlings, aren’t you? OK, combine Thor, Hulk, Nat and Clint into one song (kind of Lafayette and the guys in “My Shot”)
Keep Tony’s number.
Add in a Coulson number “We Need A Little Old-Fashioned”
Cut most of Winter Soldier except for “On Your Left” and the “End of the Line” reprise and then finish that story with a narration song by Tony or Nat at the end. Cut all of Ultron
Combine “Breaking up the Set” and “You’re Going to Come With Us” (Airport fight) into one longer song.
I guess Thanos needs a song. Crap. OK, cut Loki’s piece and do “Inevitable”
The world thinks Cap is dead or on the moon, so we really can’t do a “I Don’t Think I Will/I’ll Teach You To Dance” reprise, but we can give Sam the Eliza Hamilton part and have him singing Coulson’s song re-titled “We Needed a Little Old-Fashioned”
I’m thinking 2 Hulk songs: a Hulk Smash thing near the beginning and a smart Hulk song later.
My reaction when I saw Lalo
Edit: It wont let me post the damn pic I made
I keep wanting Ant-Man to pop up and say “But he looks like a bad guy!”
To me he’s like an Evil Paul F. Tompkins, but that comment’s stuck in the greys
Unfortunately the 616 Jack Duquesne wasn’t exactly pure of heart. https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Jacques_Duquesne_(Earth-616)
For non-comics fans, the woman at the end of the second episode is Echo, who started out as a villain in the comics, the adopted daughter of none other than Wilson Fisk, who goes after Daredevil to avenge the death of her birth father, only to start on the path of becoming one of the good guys upon learning it was actually Fisk himself who killed him. This naturally has some very interesting implications for whatever plans the MCU has for making more use of Daredevil, especially since Echo was just recently announced to be getting her own Disney+ show.
Sadly, fucking Matt Murdoch bestows a curse on a majority of his romantic partners that results in either death.InsanityOr turning into a straight up supervillain…(For context Matt and Felicia hooked up during Mark Waid’s run on Daredevil.)
Matt hooked up with Black Cat! Oh fuck that blind fucker in his good…. wait life has already fucked him.
Also Felicia’s Face-Heel Turn was later retconned to be a consequence of Peter wiping his secret identity from her mind but she remembered that she knew who he was and she developed a grudge and went to a really dark place.
While I loved Nick Spencer’s ASM run (up until the ending), I kind of wish he hadn’t had to spend so much of his time fixing terrible and awful mistakes done by Dan Slott in the previous 10 years.
Slott seemed like a perfect spiderman writer… Maybe even a guy Who could at least do something with the garbage of brand new day……. Ugh
Based on his Spider-Man/Human Torch mini-series – which was loved by everyone – Slott seemed like the perfect choice to write Spider-Man. How wrong we all were. How did we know that we’d get 10 years of bad fan fiction (“hey, what if Peter Parker became a billionaire businessman?”) and many stories that proved that Doc Ock, not Spidey, was Slott’s favorite character?
“we need to get rid of the marriage so we can write classic Peter Parker stories without all that baggage” (barf)“what if but instead of awkward perennial broke loser Peter parker, but rich and all kinds of babes to bang? And then doc ock takes over and is even better? And also bangs?” In short, fuck Joe Quesada ;)🤣🤣
Thanks for this, his actual is cool when to me everything from Spider-man post and including Clone Saga is trash (because I will never forgive them).You know what’s funny was that Cat didn’t like Peter in the 80’s. She only liked him as Spider-man.
Spider-Man’s response to this is an all-time great superhero moment.
The “Black Cat becomes a supervillain” wasn’t caused by her hooking up with Matt. It was caused by terrible writing and characterization by Dan Slott, who proved that in 10 years of writing ASM the only female character he could write well was Anna-Maria Marconi – a character he created.Black Cat becoming a villain made *no* sense and ignored years of continuity. But Slott obviously had photos of Nick Lowe because he let Slott do whatever the hell he wanted on ASM – writing people out of character, bad fan fiction, character destruction, etc.
So Daredevil is basically Kim Kardashian.
I haven’t seen that panel of Bullseye eviscerating my girl for like, decades… talk about CPTSD.
To be fair, killing people who fuck Daredevil has basically become his brand…
I always forget, until I see it again, how fantastically composed, and ridiculously brutal, that Miller/Janson panel is.
Obviously will return once I’ve seen but lovely to see Caroline on the reviews!!
“A really wild swing would be if he somehow sacrifices himself in a way that brings Natasha back.”The original Endgame script reportedly did have Clint rather than Natasha making the sacrifice, until Scarlett herself suggested it should be Nat.
I always thought Nat sacrificed herself because Clint had a family, and she had guilt over her past.
Yeah, that was Scarlett’s argument.
The story also went that a female editor, assistant director or someone else relatively high up said, “You cannot take that moment away from her.”
Which was basically what happened in Infinity Gauntlet. Thanos battled with Eternity which ended with Thanos supplanting him and becoming the personification for the universe itself and abandoning his physical form.Nebula, whom Thanos had basically turned into a state of neither living nor death in an attempt to woo Death, than used the opportunity to swipe the Infinity Gauntlet from Thanos’ inert body.Than Nebula basically undid all the damage Thanos did and banished him to the void of space out of spite. Unfortunately, unlike Thanos, she never trained to wield the Infinity Gauntlet so Thanos teamed up with the Dr Strange, the Silver Surfer, and Adam Warlock to get the Gauntlet off Nebula. The event ended with Adam Warlock wielding the Gauntlet (Though the Living Tribunal would later turn the Infinity Gauntlet off to prevent Adam from becoming a god.) and Thanos faking his death and retired to Soulworld, a pocket dimension inside of the Soul Gem.
Emily Dickison fights against a Little Woman. Can’t wait.
These “Little Women”… are they scary little?
They’re basically Borrowers.
I kept having the reoccurring thought while watching this that this is probably how Travis McMichael and Kyle Rittenhouse see themselves, and that kind of dampened my enthusiasm for vigilante entertainment. Good show, though.
To mitigate that thought: Clint is teaching Kate not to act that way.
Meanwhile Alan Moore’s probably in a cave somewhere saying “They’re learning…”
Two completely different cases. Rittenhouse was obviously going to be acquitted on self defense. The introduction of the drone footage sealed that. There was no vigilantism there. The McMichael’s and Bryan were the definition of vigilantism and set out with the hope they could have a violent exchange with Arbery and murder him.
He drove an hour and a half out of his way to shoot people he considered “looters/rioters” how the fuck is that not vigilantism? You know what don’t answer that. Just go fuck yourself fascist
He drove an hour and a half out of his way to shoot people he considered “looters/rioters” how the fuck is that not vigilantism?What? He lives right over the border, about 15 mins away, and works in Kenosha every day, where his father also lives. Did anyone actual follow this trial? He got off because largely because Wyoming’s self defense laws are wildly over-permissive, but as written, this qualified.
Like I said go fuck yourself fascist
Okay, bud, I point out your obvious misinformation and I’m a fascist. Good talk.
I’m expected to take you seriously when you apparently haven’t even heard of the BOFA doctrine of legal self defense?
Hawkeye is his best when it’s small scale and serious but fun. Fraction/Aja showed us this. Maybe my fav comic of all time…and Hawkeye is not my fav character.
Praise Palpatine, it’s Siede.
Having not been afflicted by whatever weird-ass Renner backlash ripped through the Internets – near as I can tell, it is a response to him not taking anything all that seriously – I was really looking forward to this. And it didn’t disappoint.
There are so few characters outside of Michael Schur comedies who are 1) hyper-competent and 2) hyper-nerdy and Kate Bishop is exactly that. Renner is fantastically world-weary and the low-stakes stuff is perfect.
|
Can we all make a pact? If any LARPers are offended, can we collectively tell them to fuck off?
You could tell she was going to be a star when she was a kid in True Grit.
Bumblebeehad no business being as good as it was, and that was owed mainly to her performance. And some G1 cameos
She also elevates The Edge of Seventeen from being a generic coming-of-age move.
She was the best thing in that movie, and she was acting opposite Jeff Bridges and Matt Damon!If you’ve never seen her (utterly ridiculous but fun) movie Barely Lethal, it’s worth watching, but ideally if you’re under the influence of a regulated substance of some kind.
Or if you just turn off your hearing aid whenever Sophie Turner is trying to deliver dialogue in her awful American accent.
I’m rarely not under the influence of some kind of substance in the evenings. We all good.
Dickinson is her masterpiece, and the fact that AV Club doesn’t cover it is just outright myopic.
Haven’t watched this yet but I’m assuming Clint having a hearing aid is a reference to when the character went nearly deaf in the comics in a Hawkeye mini-series in the 1980s (?). It almost causes him to miss out on hooking up (and eventually marrying) Mockingbird.
I know Barton’s deafness/hearing aids were acknowledged in the Fraction/Aja run, so I presume it’s been a long-standing character trait.
It would best be described as an intermittently-acknowledged character trait for most of the time from the 1980s miniseries until the Fraction/Aja run. Clint got the magic sort of hearing aid that basically functioned exactly as if he could hear normally most of the time, I imagine most writers who handled the character weren’t even aware of it. Occasionally it would get brought up as a plot point when somebody thought of it. The Fraction book became the definitive modern take on the character and made sure to reintroduce/spotlight him having a hearing aid.
So while I dont think it means anything outside of that its a popular location to film at, the place where Kate has the fancy dinner at is also where Kingpin was living at during Daredevil season 3. Also its located on Madison Ave between 50th and 51th street, not Park Ave…my bus is right at the corner.
Wouldn’t surprise me at all to see Fisk back given they’re making an Echo series.
It’s the (formerly Helmsley) Palace Hotel. Has a very nice view of St. Patrick’s Cathedral.
Also a consistent framing shot for Gossip Girl. Look out for Kingpin’s henchthugs Serena and Blair.
“While there’s clearly something going on with Eleanor, her fiancé Jack
(Tony Dalton), and Jack’s uncle Armond III (Simon Callow), it seems like
that’s going to be rooted more in the show’s central family theme than
in some giant global conspiracy.”I got a crisp $20 bill says it’s going to turn into a giant global conspiracy by the end of the season.
You’re gonna need to offer some incredible odds for me to even consider covering that bet.
Lol yup. I would be very surprised (and impressed) if it doesn’t.
yo, this CAN’T be good
Instead of Rogers: The Musical, couldn’t they have found a way to re-create Spider-Man: Turn Off the Dark instead?
Isn’t Kate Bishop the name of Mary Elizabeth Winstead’s character in The Thing? And is this character related to the character Winstead played in Harley Quinn?
I like the whole vibe of Clint going around being annoyed at all this shit he has to deal with when all he wants to do is go home for Christmas. Like LARPing and Tracksuit Mafia and Kate being Kate and not helping. He fought Thanos. You can feel the exasperation. And the undercurrent of guilt under all of this – both about Natasha and the Ronin persona (I love that Laura knows)
I also love that Kate kind of prepared for this shit her whole life but is so bad at it she can’t even properly explain the seriousness of the murder and criminal conspiracy she stumbled upon to an actual Avenger who happened to come by. All she can do is make the situation worse. Like the rich kid with delusions of self-importance that she is. That feels very real.But her heart is in the right place (she saved the dog) and she seems willing to learn.
Both of these characters have clear paths there and it looks like the way ther will be fun.
Even the fact that the bad guys are just called the Tracksuit Mafia suggests that Hawkeye doesn’t plan to get too bogged down in complicated mythology building
That’s from the comics. There is no hidden suggestion besides the nod to the comics.
The most obvious route the show could go is that Jack is a red herring and Eleanor is the show’s real big bad.
The whole thing with the sweets was bad as a clue since Jack could obviously visit his uncle and get them anytime he was there. And Armand clearly hinted something was off about Eleanor’s dealings and she had the clearest motive to kill him. Still, both Jack had the sword he could’ve unfolded in Armand’s back and he said he would inherit it one day. I think he was so dismissive of Armand’s objections because he knows what Eleanor really does and works with her. I’m just not sure he was in on the murder.
I don’t think you cast an actor like Brian d’Arcy James for just a two-scene role.
I wouldn’t think you would hire Simon Callow just to kill him off in the first episode either but here we are. I suspect in both cases it means we are getting flashbacks.
I know it’s kind of his thing at this point, but did anyone else get big “Hawkeye’s gonna die” vibes
I don’t think so. It would negate Natasha’s big sacrifice. She did this so he could be with his family. He will make it home for Christmas. My bet is that in the end Yelena will get him there. But I suspect this might be the end of his superheroics.
I love the Matt Fraction-inspired title sequences that start and end these episodes.
I love that Matt Fraction is credited as Consulting Producer. I hope this means he actually gets more than 5k. I also hope David Aja got something out of them copying his style there.
Saw this in a review from someone smarter than me:
Kate is basically Batman’s backstory (If one parent had survived) and Spider-Man’s personality combined.
I think the Laura-Clint relationship is fantastic. She is basically every military/law enforcement officer/firefighter spouse. Accepting, proud, worried, capable and taking things with a sense of humor because it’s better than collapsing in worry.
By the way, that phone call with Clint and Laura, probably done with Renner and Cardellini speaking lines to some assistant director weeks apart and in separate locations, did more for their relationship than Whedon’s “I’ve always supported your Avenging!”
Yes, these TV series are doing wonders for all those relationships that have been badly neglected by the movies.
Kate is basically Batman’s backstory (If one parent had survived) and Spider-Man’s personality combined.isn’t sorta like Terry McGinnis from Batman Beyond (not that I’m complaining)?
“By the way, that phone call with Clint and Laura, probably done with Renner and Cardellini speaking lines to some assistant director weeks apart and in separate locations, did more for their relationship than Whedon’s “I’ve always supported your Avenging!””This really struck me as well.
At this point, I can’t hear Linda Cardellini’s voice without hearing Wendy from Gravity Falls, especially when you only hear her voice on the phone.
Wendy! Wendy! Wendy!
That whole phone call was really good. Clearly Clint told her about his Ronin days after she and the kids were dusted and she was able to accept his complete moral failing there, not least due to the circumstances of him being completely unmoored from his family. I also like there was a bit of shop talk that showed Laura was knowledgeable regarding “spycraft” type operations. Which makes a lot more sense regarding their relationship than hidden family in the woods dependent on SHIELD protection. It gave the impression that she was fully capable of handling shit if need be.
By the way, that phone call with Clint and Laura, probably done with Renner and Cardellini speaking lines to some assistant director weeks apart and in separate locations, did more for their relationship than Whedon’s “I’ve always supported your Avenging!”Yeah, I loved this. The Whedon presentation treats her like an accessory. But the conversation they have makes it clear he respects her as a partner and she knows what’s going on outside the secure farm in the middle of nowhere. It’s not just the fact that they have that relatively frank (as much as they can be with him in public spaces) conversation like that, but the fact that she knows about Ronin at all was a pleasant surprise compared to shows that thrive on keeping secrets to fill the hour. (Of course, it makes some sense that he almost certainly did some wetwork on SHIELD’s behalf pre-Avengers, so that’s likely something they’ve grappled with before.)
I think the Laura-Clint relationship is fantastic. Their conversation was great. No lying, no secrets, no bitchy nagging spouse to create additional tension or shitty humor, just an honest and legitimately supportive relationship.
Yeah, I like the idea that while other characters like Loki off having some crazy space adventure and Sam and Bucky are fighting new supersoldiers, Clint has to deal with a bunch of nerds.
Apparently David Aja isn’t getting a dime from this. I’ve seen people keep bringing up the topic elsewhere.
Yes, I’ve just read that and that’s super shitty. They copied his art style all over this – from fonts used to graphics to character design. He should’ve gotten a producer credit too.
“I also love that Kate kind of prepared for this shit her whole life but is so bad at it she can’t even properly explain the seriousness of the murder and criminal conspiracy she stumbled upon to an actual Avenger who happened to come by.”She was actually surprisingly competent to me. Yea she messed up, mainly due to inexperience, but she also held her own pretty well. I’m glad the show hasn’t downplayed either of their abilities.
And Armand clearly hinted something was off about Eleanor’s dealings and she had the clearest motive to kill him. Still, both Jack had the sword he could’ve unfolded in Armand’s back and he said he would inherit it one day. I think he was so dismissive of Armand’s objections because he knows what Eleanor really does and works with her. I’m just not sure he was in on the murder.Both Eleanor and Jack are villains in the comics. Obviously the MCU tends to reinvent/reinterpret characters from the comics, particularly villains, so there’s no guarantee it’s going to play out similarly in this show. I suspect Eleanor is going to turn out to be the character that is her boss in the comics. They’ve also thrown in a lot of characters that are in Daredevil’s orbit for this show. Probably just coincidence, but hopefully setting up him appearing in the MCU sometime fairly soon. I also hope David Aja got something out of them copying his style there.Aja was pretty vocal about not getting anything unfortunately, which is pretty shitty considering they’re using his cover designs as a very obvious and direct inspiration for the credits.
The whole thing with the sweets was bad as a clue since Jack could obviously visit his uncle and get them anytime he was there.My theory is that the thing with the candy was deliberate on Jack’s part. I think he has some very reasonable suspicions about Kate and wanted to see how she’d react.
Still,he would have to assume she noticed the cabdy and it would mean anything to her.
True. But it was a simple test to see if she’d been in Armand’s apartment at all. It wouldn’t be a guarantee one way or the other. I’m not saying he kept the candy just in case someone who’d been there would turn up, just that he had the opportunity. The only thing he risked is looking like the sort of person who casually keeps butterscotches in their pockets.
That would be a nice parallel to Kate swinging her sword at him to watch him parry.
I was thinking that, too (I just couldn’t think of a simple way to articulate it in the moment), and I’d be willing to bet that if it wasn’t deliberate, the writers realized it happened to line up well and kept it in.
The Matt Fraction Hawkeye was always more John Steed and Emma Peel Avengers than Iron Man and Captain America Avengers.
Just out of curiosity, who are these actors? They are not in the show. Strange that Disney would hire stand-ins for the promotional material. Even stranger would be Disney deciding to touch up the actors faces to the point where they look like different people.
They don’t look that different to me, but the dog looks weird.
Thoroughly enjoyable, bro.
Who would have thought that the most uncinematic Avenger would have the most cinematic looking D+ show. The entire first episode felt like being in Manhattan at Christmas time as opposed to a hallmark channel movie that has a couple of areal shots of the Empire State building cut into a Vancouver street set.
that being said i was definitely aware of how empty the streets were since they filmed this over covid. was so weird seeing times square like that.
I want to be able to walk through NYC with a bow. LOL!
Please, it’s New York, you’ll get a sideways glance and then ignored
you should watch the underrated nicolas cage movie ‘the weather man’. i think it’s chicago but same vibes.
You’d be lucky to get a second glance walking around with a bow in Manhattan.
It’s got the stakes of a Marvel Netflix show mixed with the comedic tone of an Ant-Man movie.
Comparing any live action MCU show to Marvel Netflix is understandable, but to me what Hawkeye displays most clearly is its Disney DNA. It has many of the basic ingredients of a Disney Channel production or an animated movie: a childhood trauma (often the loss of a parent) that leads to ongoing familial drama, a spectacular incident that inspires a lifelong, obsessive aspiration (the scene where Clint saves the young Kate could have been storyboarded by Pixar), a gruff, reluctant but lovable mentor/friend forced to partner with the protagonist and a potential evil step father. Add in the Christmas ambience and it is a quintessential Disney experience.The only way Hawkeye is similar to an MCU Netflix show is a leisurely pacing and serialized construction that is now common to many streaming shows. Hawkeye’s New York may have a bit of grit, but also a warm glow that evokes Home Alone and Scrooged more than Daredevil’s dark underbelly.
It’s also similar in that it focuses on fairly normal street-level people in New York. None of the other Disney+ shows have done this yet, but all the Netflix shows did.
I am not claiming that there isn’t an intentional linkage to Netflix Marvel and its New York setting, that was clearly a major Marvel Studios goal reported in fan media long before the show launched. It’s just that what stood out to me is the ways that Hawkeye is different from the Netflix shows, most obviously in how much it is a comedy. Hawkeye imo is a blend of action and family comedy films, as well as acerbic, mildly surreal single camera tv sitcoms. There’s a decidedly lighter tone and an underlying optimism that wouldn’t be at home on Netflix Marvel. This show could work on broadcast television while the Netflix shows were… Netflix shows (or at least the more adult oriented fare they are known for).
I get what you’re saying but it still reminds me of the Netflix Marvel shows in that it’s relatively grounded, relatively realistic, takes place extensively (as opposed to just incidentally) in New York and doesn’t have any characters with big super-powers
That was… really good.I think I’ll leave it at that and just start looking forward to the next episode.
Edomite nepotism ruins everything. (((steinfeld))) can’t act for shit.
Man it’s subtle but I wish they wrote Clint like this previously. They did the generic quip machine who is kind of a normie but here Renner’s leaned into him being such a fucking constant sadsack and it’s great. It’s a different version of sadsack than in the stories they are pulling from but it works so well for me. Dude has such “I’ll get myself a non-alcoholic beer after I get back from Home Depot so I can really spice up tonight’s NCIS rerun” energy in these two episodes and he almost makes it cool?Hawkeye LARPing and physically fighting not to have fun was great. So was sound effects guy during the duel.Kate’s arc is definitely about her learning that there’s consequences for her bullshit. She’s awfully bratty for a 22 year old college student. Stanfield is great and I love her hella awkward but comically confident “king, I got this” banter. She’s literally this type of stan and I love it:Tony Dalton is a treasure. Maybe it’s because I’ll never forget Lalo but he flips between menacing troll and being offensively lame like a switch.I’m Polish, so I got a kick out of Piotr Adamczyk playing the neurotic Tracksuit Mafioso who is very insecure about navigating the safehouse market in such a gentrified urban space. Us Poles usually play Russian thugs in American films and it’s nice to see someone play a Polish thug!I hope the fight scenes get better. The flashing light in the wine cellar made it fucking incomprehensible despite decent choreo, the scene with the Tracksuit Mafia at the end of episode 1 is just completely incomprehensible. Ironically, the best shot fight scenes were at that goddamn LARP.
I dunno if you remember being a 22 year old college student, but we were quite the bratty bunch.
I agree, but Kate’s clearly coming from a place of privilege that makes her extra so. Her introduction as an adult is her destroying a historical building – accidentally, sure, but that whole stunt was for no reason – and the punishment being a total slap in the wrist because she can afford to no sell any consequences. There’s also an undercurrent of trauma to her daredevil attitude, but it’s fairly apparent that she’s been living in a bubble. She attempts to disfigure her mom’s fiance, later suggests he’s a murderer and her mom barely gives her a stern talking to. Most people, regardless of age, would get at least yelled at.It’s especially clear with how the two episodes contrast that there’s consequences to literally everything Clint did. He’s half-deaf from all the fighting, he’s got clear PTSD and survivor’s guilt and the shit he did will never stop coming back in ways he cannot anticipate, whether it’s going with Nat to space or a vigilante stint.
“She attempts to disfigure her mom’s fiance, later suggests he’s a murderer and her mom barely gives her a stern talking to”That’s cuz she’s relieved Kate doesn’t suspect her.Nah but her mom does seemed to go very easy on her. I guess it helps that Kate does seem good at expressing contrition when she knows she messed up (which she doesn’t believe to be the case with Jaques).
Yeah, I predict her mom is gonna be the actual villain. I wouldn’t be surprised if Jack is going to be revealed as a hero, or at least a vigilante in the vein of Ronin.
She takes a swing at her mom’s fiance, but note how easily he knocks the sword out of her hand-she was ready to drop it or just tap him.
She attempts to disfigure her mom’s fiance, later suggests he’s a murderer and her mom barely gives her a stern talking to. Most people, regardless of age, would get at least yelled at.Mom and Jack are villains, which I didn’t think could be made more obvious by the show, but maybe my knowledge of the comics colors that interpretation a bit. Jack is Swordsman. I don’t get though, which I’ve seen commented on a couple times, that she was reckless in trying to strike Jack. She was calling him out on his lies, that was the point. She herself is a world-class fencer and she knew Jack was just toying with her. So we have a Jack’s uncle murdered by a sword and Kate thinking there’s more to Jack than just collecting swords. She was trying to show to her mom that Jack is not who she thinks he is. Yet, Eleanor clearly know who he is so some deeper betrayal is coming.
Yes that was Kate’s stated rationale and it’s crazy talk, meant to show her paranoia
I know very well they are villains – though I imagine Jack is a misdirect to cover for her mother and he’s going to end up more of a vigilante – and what Kate was doing. I 100% understand her logic, I’m just pointing out that post-2012, she’s living a fairly charmed life where the things she does don’t have any consequences.
All right now, that building must have been a serious safety hazard, because there’s no way that ringing the bell with the force an arrow can generate should have possibly caused the entire tower to collapse. That’s just crazy. One wind storm and that thing is killing someone.
If nothing else the chemistry between the two leads is excellent already. Not sure about the tracksuit mafia as a threat but they seem pretty funny.‘’Thanos was right’’. lol
Oh, you should see the memes!
That made me laugh too. Even though I’m not sure if that was supposed to be a bleak moment or not. Clint lost his family and went off the deep end. Everything he fought for, his best friend died, and some dick wrote “Thanos was right” in the bathroom. Some people will never appreciate what they have.But at the same time, isn’t that so us as a people? “Thanos was right”, lol.
All it was missing was being misspelled ‘Thanoz woz rite’’
If this happened in our world there were would definitely be pro-Thanos people. They might even be a major cultural/political force
The Flag-Smashers never went quite so far as to say it in those words, but they were quite clear about how much they wished all the people who came back could just go away again in some non-specific way.
Ah, that’s a different Rhys Thomas than the one who directed Brian Pern for the BBC.
not watched the showyet but i find the picture used to advertise this on Disney+, very goofy because of the fucking dog featured in it. Is the dog actually a character in this?
If you’re going to Diss pizza dog we are going to have a problem
Did they have to find an actual one-eyed dog for the role?
Hands up if you tuned in *solely* because you’ve been hoping for a live-action Pizza Dog since around 2012?
Yes
I’m quite enjoying this. The dialogue bounces along, Steinfeld is a treat as Kate (just the right combo of snark and smart to make her immensely likeable and not “Oh god, not another Millennial I have to add to my Death List”) and Renner is good at the ageing hero just looking to get home to his kids and not have to yippee-ki-yay some fucknut down a liftshaft.That said – Bishop’s mother seems awfully fond of dressing rich, as in she’s dressed like a villain in Star Trek. I’m going to go out on a ledge here and say Mumsy’s not all peaches and cream. The boyfriend? Meh. He’s slimy and easily disposed. The Tracksuit Mafia line made me snort my tea – mostly because we do actually have Russian wannabe gangsters roaming the streets of Glasgow dressed in knock-off Adidas and Kappa tracksuits (I wish I were joking. Honestly, I do) but also because it’s a call-out to the Tracksuit Draculas – and I want to wuffle Pizza Dog and sacrifice all of you to protect him.
Mom is very fond of blood-red turtlenecks.
I Hate to be that guy (oh who am i kidding, i love it) but Kate is Gen Z, not a millennial. Its close (i think Steinfeld herself might just squeeze into the millennial category), but she’s definitely Gen Z.In fact, i think Natasha might be the only Millennial Avenger. Maybe Sam Wilson if he’s younger than Anthony Mackie actually is? Or am i missing a load of people?
Ahem, she’s not a Millennial, she’s Gen Z.
Born in 1996 Steinfeld is either a very young Milennial or an Old Zoomer (or a Zillenial) depending on how you look at it.
But Kate would be born in 1999/2000 so she is very much Gen Z. Natasha was a Millennial.
Yes. I agree. I think some of the 40 and above crowd still use “Millennial” as short hand for “young person who annoys me” and don’t think much about the fact that they’re not even the youngest generation anymore
She said she’s 22, and this show would be set in at least 2023, so about 2001 sounds right.(Unless she got blipped.)
Everyone knows who Eleanor’s fiance, Jack, is right?
I’m sure many who didn’t went straight to Google “Jack Duquesne” and got the “including results for Jacques Duquesne” message up top.
I had to look it up too. I’m familiar with the Swordsman but not his name.
I don’t remember it off the top of my head, but the “Duquesne” is just so unique that I remember it’s him lol
I usually wait until they are all released to binge the Marvel/SW series, since they are short seasons. However, my decision to watch this series at all depends entirely on how little Renner is in it. The less screentime he has, the more likely I am to watch it.
Enjoying this a whole lot so far. Clint in the movies never got nearly enough shine compared to Clint in the comics. So while I’m a little sad that this still won’t be the Fractions-specific flavor of “okay, this looks bad” Hawkeye, I’m also glad they’re leaning into the character as established.
Two quick chuckles I had at Clint’s expense, though:
– Any civilian in the MCU other than Kate saying that he’s their favorite Avenger is about as likely as anyone in the real world saying that the MCU Hawkeye is their favorite Avenger in the movies.
– Clint saying “and I fought Thanos.” I mean, you were fighting near Thanos, and you were fighting against Thanos, so technically I guess that’s accurate, but c’mon man …
“Any civilian in the MCU other than Kate saying that he’s their favorite Avenger is about as likely as anyone in the real world saying that the MCU Hawkeye is their favorite Avenger in the movies.”Strong disagree. A normal guy fighting alongside these actual superpowered beings in real life and actually helping save the world? I’m sure he’d be quite popular because he’s just more relatable than the others. Maybe not the majority’s favourite, but I could definitely see him having his fans.
To be fair, she saw HIM in action as a young child and he’s one of the few Avengers a normal person could aspire to.
I don’t know if it’s a detail that was told before or if I just noticed it but I liked the touch:- In Age of Ultron, Black Widow, seeing Clint’s pregnant wife, asks her how little Natasha is doing. She answers that the baby will be a boy. Fast-forward to the show, Clint’s youngest kid is called Nate.
Yep they did mention his name is Nathaniel Barton. I think it was at the end of AoU.
At the end of AoU they showed that the boy’s name was Nathaniel Pietro Barton.
Thanks, I didn’t notice that. It might have been that I think “Nate” is closer to “Natasha” than “Nathaniel”, so I didn’t make the connection when I heard it.
Yeah, they only showed it on Nat’s phone screen when she was video-calling the Bartons:
I’m enjoying it so far but there’s a slightly weird feel, especially in ep 2. The plotting is very loose. A Jeremy Renner almost seems low energy.
Yeah, I’m having fun with it, but something about it just isn’t quite clicking for me.
I love love love that they gave him his hearing aid from the comics.
Obviously they went over it a tad less violent than the books, but it does add a wonderful splendor to the character that yes, he is indeed human, vulnerable, and still getting up to fight and being funny about it.
That’s our Clint 😀
Loved Hailee’s Kate. Have never been a huge fan of Renner or his Hawkeye, but the show’s warmed me up to him for the first time.Show itself feels a bit messy so far. I was watching with my Ma, and while I can figure out Dalton’s Jack as soon as they said his name(and confirmed later with Armand introducing himself with his full name), my Ma said it was really confusing and unclear how the characters relate to each other, until way late in the episodes.Fight scenes definitely leave a lot to be desired. Too dark and too many quick cuts. The LARP scene was fun but didn’t need to take that much time. Tracksuit mafia’s pretty funny—”Found her, bro” killed me, as it did many others, I’m sure.
To be frank, I was kind of bit underwhelmed by the first two episodes, even though there are some good bits here and there:Pizza Dog!Hawkeye has hearing aids! Well, inner-canal type instead of over-the-lobe.An actual “I Love You” sign language exchange!Kate Bishop has lot of cool stuffs going on!Tracksuit Mafia, bro!Slow-Mo LARPing!I got some good chuckles out of these. Mostly that the developments and dialogues are fine, just fine. Nothing great nor deeply involving like Loki, WandaVision, and even Faclon & Winter Soldier. Still, I am invested and willing to see where the story is going. Kate and Clint has great chemistry together that’s yet to be explored thoroughly. Hopefully this would all pay off and put a nice cap on first year of Marvel TV on Disney+.
About those mysteries: The most obvious route the show could go is that Jack is a red herring and Eleanor is the show’s real big bad. But I’m also curious about Kate’s dad. I don’t think you cast an actor like Brian d’Arcy James for just a two-scene role.I don’t think Jack is a red herring since…SPOILER ALERT!!!!in the comics, Jack Duquesne is the Avengers villain The Swordsman.
And it’s not like the MCU ever uses comics villains as red-herrings!
And if you think Hawkeye’s comic-accurate costume was goofy, the Swordsman’s costume had a dorsal fin.
That’s no problem; Yondu had (& now Kraglin has) a dorsal fin. 😉
I suspect they will make her Madame Masque.
They could. He could just be lower-level villain who just wants to fight Clint because he admires his sword skill as Ronin and wants to prove he’s the better swordsman. Or, they could make him the Big Bad. Or, he and Eleanor could both be the bad guys. She could be fully aware of Jack’s criminal ways and actually admire that. But, I don’t think they cast Lalo Salamanca just to be a goofball pretending to be a baddie.
At different points in the comics Swordsman has betrayed his evil boss and helped the good guys for reasons varying from selfish to kind of noble in an antihero way. They could be setting up something similar if it turns out Eleanor is the real big bad.
That depends on the current disposition towards the older MCU shows, because Masque was already in Agent Carter.
Ah, I wasn’t aware of that.
“I was going to say that a big campy musical about well-known public figures who died gruesome deaths seems like a stretch too far, even for Broadway, but then I remembered that Diana The Musical exists.”There’s also an opera based on Anna Nicole Smith. And Steve didn’t die a gruesome death, although I’m still not clear what story the public got.
I’m still wondering what story *we’ll* get
I know it’s kind of his thing at this point, but did anyone else get big
“Hawkeye’s gonna die” vibes from the scene where he says goodbye to his
kids?
I got those vibes too and god I hope it doesn’t happen. Like I can see from a writer’s (imo a bad writer) perspective the urge to have him handing the mantle to her be one of his final acts and from a cynical executive knowing Renner probably won’t be back in another of these things it’s tempting to kill the character so the question of “Where’s (the first) Hawkeye?” doesn’t pop up in whatever world-ending threat crossover comes next down the line but man come on. In-universe I mean, the guy only just got back his family and had to watch his best friend die to make that happen, and he’s almost deaf from years of defending the earth. Just let the poor guy go home to the farm Marvel, I’m begging you.
Nah I really don’t see them doing this. Haven’t gotten that vine at all.
I may be in the minority, but so far I was not impressed by this in the same way I was impressed by WandaVision, TFATWS, or Loki. It’s not bad, but also not “good”.And there’re some issues with the writing:- When putting a “Chekov’s gun” in the story – i.e.: something that is obviously there only to comes back later – the good way of doing it is organically, or at least subtly. The “monogramed butterscotch” fumbled this concept badly. Same goes for “Pizza Dog”.- I’m all for cutting some slack for shows like this, but even my wife who isn’t really nitpicky, after the end sequence of episode 1, where Clint saves Kate, asked me “How he knew where to find her?”.- Clint picked a firefighter suit from a random firefighter truck. Let’s accept that by sheer chance it’s the one with a LARP sticker. Yet, from that to “This firefighter guy took my Ronin suit” is a HUGE jump. Specially because the Track Suit Mafia are much more logical suspects, since they were there to begin with it. Or it could’ve been any other firefighter, looking to make a buck selling it on Ebay.Finally, I’ll throw two wild speculations here, for future bragging rights:- That triceratops skull will make a return at somepoint in Phase 4 of the MCU, as coming from the Savage Land! Mark my words!- When the auction announcer talks about Ronin “almost annihilating the status and power of the head of organized crime”, I’m damn sure he’s making reference for a future apparition of Wilson Fisk, the Kingpin.
I was going to say that a big campy musical about well-known public
figures who died gruesome deaths seems like a stretch too far
Spoiler warning for the end of Hamilton.
Yeah, I’m at Clint at the LARP, and this show friggin’ rules.
I liked the first episode but those fight scenes seemed off.
Better than the Sylvie scenes in Loki at least.
To my surprise, I really like it so far. Movie after movie, the MCU has had a chip on their shoulder trying to justify why Hawkeye matters, and what makes him cool. I’ve always liked him, but Disney is doing something clever by leaning into the public perception of him as “boring.” That un-glamorous quality is clearly by design, and ironically makes him even more interesting to me. I loved the Broadway show. I love the family. Clint doesn’t see himself as special. Unlike his super-powered colleagues, he has to wear a hearing aid because of all the shit he’s been through. His battle damage is tangible. He’s just worn out, and grumpy, and wants to go home, and I realized I’m basically watching John McClaine from Die Hard! And I kind of love it?And Kate is the perfect counterbalance. She’s the wide-eyed fangirl, but not in the same, grating way they’ve been doing Peter Parker. She can call Clint out on his crap. She has a little more edge; her recklessness stemming more from overzealous inexperience rather than being outright moronic. There’s a great line about how those who see themsleves as invincible tend to be either rich or young and she’s both of these things. It’s both a strength and her flaw, and we’re seeing what it looks like when those traits are directed towards someone she distrusts in the Dalton character. Those stepdad scenes have been the most tense parts of the show.
Liked the show, just a quick word about Scarlett, I believe her upcoming role is as a producer, not as an actor.
I liked how Steinfeld and Renner are like the exact same size, so everyone can be forgiven for thinking they are the same person. Did they plan that? I hope they planned that.Anyway, Steinfeld and Renner are really good, the plot is nice (I’m a Die Hard is a Christmas movie person,) and I am officially looking forward to Young Avengers.
Heh, I think Hailee is giving up a few 40 pounds though.
Wow the size thing didn’t even occur to me
This was delightful. Steinfeld is excellent, as is Renner. I expect Kate’s mom to be a major player; possibly working with the Kingpin. I don’t think Renner dies–this show doesn’t seem like it’s headed in that dark of a direction (more retirement than forced retirement).
“I was going to say that a big campy musical about well-known public figures who died gruesome deaths”
Which of the Avengers died gruesome deaths?
Tracksuit Mafia suggests that Hawkeye doesn’t plan to get too bogged down in complicated mythology building…Well, considering that’s exactly what they’re named in the comics, it’s spot on part of his mythology as introduced by Matt Fraction, who is a consulting producer.
About those mysteries: The most obvious route the show could go is that Jack is a red herring It’s possible, but Jack Duquesne is the name of The Swordsman, the man who trained Clint as a child in the comics. Could be a nod, could be foreshadowing.
It seems like they’re burying christmas song titles in the dialogue. Hawkeye says “I’ll be home for Christmas” and Kate’s mother says “Put one foot in front of the other” (Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer). That last one seemed so out of place as a line it had to be intentional. I could be wrong, but I’ll be watching for more!
I liked this. A lot. Way more than I expected to.I liked WandaVision, really liked Falcon & Winter Soldier, and gave up on Loki midway through the first episode. But this feels right for where my head is this holiday season so bring it on.That said, COVID protocols are all over this show. The society fundraiser in this ep looked like last call at a really expensive bar. Not the kind of packed, highbrow affair we’re used to in these kinds of movies.Also, an Avengers musical is going to happen, right? Not just on the show but on actual Broadway. Like Thanos it’s…inevitable.
“and gave up on Loki midway through the first episode”Wait, what?
I wanted to like it but it just bored me. I think I need a break from Marvel.
So what are the chances that Vera Farmiga isn’t the secret big bad and took the opportunity provided by the alien attack to murder the dad and run a criminal underground operation?Why the hell would you waste Vera Farmiga with a mom role?
That was fun, although I chuckled at the scene of Clint and Kate walking side by side openly in NYC getting photographed. You just know some tabloid would put a picture of that on their front page the next day with the headline, “STRAY ARROW”.
Hoping that happens and Linda Cardellini sees it.
I am also of the opinion that Kate’s mom is going to be the real villain.And is she living in the same penthouse she was demanding they sell at the beginning? I suppose life insurance for the dad helped out there?
Life insurance for a dad whom we did not see how (or if!) they died.
Okay maybe I’m alone in this cuz I’ve seen other sites give the Hawkeye premiere terrible reviews but, as someone who studied musical theatre in college and an MCU nerd, I reeeeally appreciated Rogers: The Musical. I wont spoil it but that moment where the actor belts and everyone harmonizes is just fucking perfect…. even if it breaks the fourth wall a bit because “how could regular civilians know that thats a thing Steve Rogers says often”. Perfect.
And also thank you AV Club for not having Barsanti review this show as he does often with MCU stuff. Idk if you guys have caught on yet but he kind of lowkey hates the MCU and you guys keep having him review it. Please stop that as I’m someone who enjoys it and its really irritating when someone who clearly dislikes it is constantly doing updates on it and predicting when “superhero fatigue” will kick in. Woof.
I dont like the vibe of wishing someone would lose their job but can you guys please assign Barsanti elsewhere? Thanks. It’s literally a pain to read any article he posts about the MCU cuz he clearly dislikes it.
Here his new partner in crime is Hailee Steinfeld’s Kate Bishop, one of
the most immediately likable additions to the MCU in ages.
Eh? In ages? Do we not like any of the characters? I do.I kind of low key don’t like Kate Bishop. I know nothing of her comic stories, and while her inspiration for being a hero resulting from being saved by Hawkeye is a nice jumping off point, instead of a genius charismatic asshole like Tony Stark, she’s a dorky fuck up asshole. I get that it’s early, everyone has to start somewhere, but that cool animated title sequence felt like a big lie. Steinfeld doesn’t really show the physicality of a world class athlete the way someone like Charlie Cox or Summer Glau have. Her large collection of awards is telling us she’s amazing, but the show isn’t showing us that she is.
While I like her nervous, nerdy energy, we already have one of those (3 if you count Starlord and Ant-Man). There’s room for more like that, but there isn’t much to make her stand out, other than being generally bad at everything. Most of it you can chalk up to her being a dumb kid, but the worst part was when she tried to stab her mother’s fiancee in the face to force him to parry it to prove that he was lying about his sword skills. What? On what planet do you think you look and sound like a reasonable person with a good argument? How is it possible for us to know she’s right while she’s completely unconvincing in being right? I get that they’re trying to show us something to contrast to later on after she’s undergone some growth, but in the process they’re failing to endear her to the audience, or at least to me. You have to give me something to make me think you’re cool and smart and good at things.On the other hand, Jeremy Renner elevates every scene he’s in. Him seeing a stand in for Nat, I felt that. And his annoyed, over it all presence really makes me wish it was more a Clint Barton show than a Clint Barton adjacent show. I hope we get to the obligatory mentoring part of the show sooner rather than later so we can get past the Kate Bishop sucks part.
Most of it you can chalk up to her being a dumb kid, but the worst part was when she tried to stab her mother’s fiancee in the face to force him to parry it to prove that he was lying about his sword skills. What? On what planet do you think you look and sound like a reasonable person with a good argument? How is it possible for us to know she’s right while she’s completely unconvincing in being right?Uh, how are we to know? He’s a mustache twirling, obvious bad guy who is obsessed with swords, stole the Ronin sword, and killed his own uncle with it. Given that Kate is an accomplished fencer herself, it’s not shocking that she could tell he was faking. On top of that, if you know the comics, you know who he is.
This isn’t a good answer. The scenes as portrayed on screen should make some kind of sense and not just be hand waved away with “it was like that in the comics” or else why even make movies/TV shows separate from the comics to begin with? And the scene was completely ridiculous. Literally attacking someone with a sword after they’d taken off their protective equipment like that is psychotic behavior and wouldn’t be forgotten so quikly like it was portrayed
“Her large collection of awards is telling us she’s amazing, but the show isn’t showing us that she is.”I *really* don’t get this complaint. The show *shows* her dispatching a room full of armed thugs by herself while unarmed. It *shows* her shooting a bottle out of another thug’s hand through a small hole in a window from across the street and a couple stories up. It *showed* us the trickshot with the bell tower.The show has done a pretty great job at showing how skilled she is while also not downplaying her lack of actual experience in real world crime fighting. It’s a tricky balance and the fact that they’ve nailed it has been one of the most impressive parts for me.
See I was watching the show entirely for Hailee Steinfeld and I generally can’t stand Jeremy Renner or the Hawkeye/Clint Barton character. Having said that I have to kind of agree with you that the character of Kate Bishop as written is pretty hard to like. I don’t mind that she’s not immediately great at everything but the fact that she’s a) a super-rich kid and b)scion to a fucking private security/surveillance corporation (!?) is like she’s designed in a lab to be someone I hate. I still think Steinfeld did well with what she was given and there were aspects of the character’s personality I did find likable but still it was disappointing to me since I think Steinfeld is the best actor of her age cohort
Yeah, the problem is definitely with the writing and not the acting. While her being born into wealth and a family business doesn’t automatically disqualify her for me, she is making a lot of bad decisions in a very short amount of time.She witnesses Jack bidding on the Ronin sword at a shady auction and then stealing it, then she discovers Armond’s body and leaps to the conclusion that Jack did it. Even if it really was Jack, she behaves as if he was a direct threat to her mother, even though she directly acknowledges that his motive would be to protect Eleanor. The most infuriating part is that she wants to hide the information she knew because her need to not get in trouble was somehow more important than the safety of her mother.And I don’t need her to fight like Daredevil or Black Widow out of the gate, I like that she’s not introduced as a fully formed Avenger, it’s just that she fights very much like an untrained street brawler instead of the balletic, award-winning champion fighter they set her up to be. It not only makes the fights look uninteresting compared to everything else we’ve seen, but she has yet to show us anything that only her can do. She shot four arrows.
The Fraction / Aja run on Hawkeye is one of the best comics of the last twenty years. Read that, and then tell us whether or not you like Kate Bishop.(…and then read the Thompson / Romero Hawkeye run, which is all about Kate Bishop.)
No. I specifically said this was about this version of Kate Bishop. I’m allowed to dislike her. Maybe I’ll warm up to her before the end of this season, but she needs to stop being an idiot for that to happen. And I don’t mean young, naive, and inexperienced, I mean stupid stupid. If I was a fan of the comics, I would be upset that they made her this annoying and dumb in the show.
I have read this post and that was amazing.
About those mysteries: The most obvious route the show could go is that Jack is a red herring and Eleanor is the show’s real big bad. But I’m also curious about Kate’s dad. I don’t think you cast an actor like Brian d’Arcy James for just a two-scene role.Kate’s mother is a villain in the comics so that wouldn’t be too surprising.
My other wild swing prediction is that the various Armonds are actually clones of one another.Armond III introduced the child at the party as Armond VII – four generations removed, making him a great-great grandfather. Even if he gained five years in the Snap, that’s pretty good going!
Thanks to Better Call Saul, I immediately mistrust any character Tony Dalton plays and that “duel” and the candy sealed the deal. He’s definitely shady, but he could be a red herring.
This was quite good, but can David Aja sue over how much of his design work they’ve cribbed for this? The title sequence, of course, but also the look of the villains and Kate’s costume. Pay the goddamn creators, Marvel.
they didn’t mary sue her so that’s a big win.
I really like Jeremy Renner as Hawkeye, always have. But Hailee Steinfeld was an absolute delight in this. I mean she is usually (from True Grit which was great, to Barely Lethal which wasn’t [but she was],) and I had high hopes for this…. and holy moley the chemistry between these two was fun as hell.
I found the Kate Bishop character immediately unlikable. They had to have her save a dog to get us on her side. How many rich-brat-with-daddy-issues backstories do we need? I like Hawkeye, but so far, this show has Iron Fist syndrome.
Hawkeye will be an interesting show that justifies its own existence if it stays focused on truly banal evil. Hawkeye himself already checks off one box: the guy who was part of tons of great things, but now just wants to be done and to enjoy the good stuff he’s miraculously gotten back. The feckless fiance will be an amazing character if the writers allow him to be a low-rent super (the swordfighting stuff is just too obvious, sorry) who has no ambitions beyond marry-killing his way to a hefty retirement fund.
Falcon/Winter already showed us a bunch of supers (or super-adjacents) raging against the dying of a particular light: the hope that super-anything (be it good or evil) can truly change the nature of mankind and the world.
Hawkeye has an opportunity to explore a group of people who are actually kinda-sorta okay with the status quo mostly remaining in place. That status quo includes intact families and fewer vigilantes and musicals (even the terrible ones) and Christmas trees, after all. The show doesn’t have to fully endorse that perspective – I mean, shit, here I am talking about how one of the characters should be the straight-up exemplar of its darkest side, and I didn’t even get to the part where Kate’s mom could be a great exemplar of yet another dark side to it – but it’s something different. And of course, Kate Bishop herself is the outsider voice screaming the dissent, so there are going to be conversations. And it’s fantastic that the voice of dissent is an ultra-privileged rich college student. That gives you layers, immediately.
Am I the only one confused by the introduction of pizza dog? Like why is there a stray one eye dog in front of a big fancy hotel that’s hosting a gala? I don’t think I’ve ever seen a stray dog in Manhattan. There’s also that weird moment when Kate starts talking to the dog and this weird “magical Disney” music plays. And then the dog completely randomly out of nowhere attacks the mafia guy by the van? That was soooo weird and children’s movie nonsensical. I know it’s minor but that bugged me so much.
thanos was right doesn’t make sense. How would the people left behind form the blip no about his intent lol
The general public seems very informed about Thanos, his plans, and the Avengers’ battles with him. I’m assuming a lot of this came from witnesses, leaks, and statements put out by the Avengers/government.So it’s acceptable to me that after the snap, when the world was in a state of chaos and wanted to know what just happened, the remaining heroes would tell everyone that an alien named Thanos had just wiped out half of all life in the universe. They couldn’t just say nothing.
Good point