James Gunn says studio wouldn't let him make Velma "explicitly gay" in the Scooby Doo movies
Aux Features scooby doo
Prior to becoming a go-to director for some of the biggest superhero franchises in the industry, James Gunn penned the script for a very different group of crime fighters: Mystery Incorporated. Gunn wrote the scripts for both 2002's live-action Scooby Doo and the 2004 sequel Scooby-Doo 2: Monsters Unleashed. Though the second film didn’t perform quite as well as the first, the franchise’s now-adult fan base has remained surprisingly vocal on social media, especially when it comes to Linda Cardellini’s turn as enduring queer icon Velma Dinkley. When asked on Twitter about making a third film featuring Velma as an out and proud lesbian, Gunn used it as an opportunity to tell the truth about his original vision for Mystery Incorporated’s brilliant sleuth.
“I tried,” Gunn assured his following. “In 2001 Velma was explicitly gay in my initial script.” The Guardians Of The Galaxy director then goes on to explain that the studio, Warner Bros., kept “watering down” all notions of Velma’s queer identity until the she was eventually saddled with a boyfriend in the sequel.
Gunn and members of the cast have previously spoken on moments that alluded towards Velma’s queerness, including a kiss between her and Daphne that obviously didn’t make the final version. “We did kiss,” co-star Sarah Michelle Gellar confirmed in an interview with Sci Fi Wire back in 2002. “It got cut.” The kiss was part of a body-swap scene between the women. “It wasn’t just, like, for fun. Initially in the soul-swapping scene Velma and Daphne couldn’t seem to get their souls back together in the woods. And so the way they found was to kiss and the souls went back into proper alignment.” Gunn later expounded on the inclusion and eventual erasure of that moment: “The movie was originally meant to be PG-13 and was cut down to PG after, like, three parents were outraged at a test screening in Sacramento. The studio decided to go a more family-friendly route. Language and jokes and sexual situations were removed, including a kiss between Daphne and Velma. Cleavage was CGI’d over. But, thankfully, the farting remained.”
Gunn isn’t the only creator who attempted to give Velma the freedom she deserved. Per Out Magazine, producer Tony Cervone intended to not only make Velma a lesbian in his 2010 animated series reboot Scooby Doo: Mystery Incorporated, he also planned on giving her a love interest in fellow character Marcie Fleach. When Cervone posted an illustration of the pair on Instagram against a rainbow backdrop, a user challenged the image, referencing Velma and Shaggy’s relationship in the series that ran from 2010 to 2013. “We always planned on Velma acting a little off and out of character while she was dating Shaggy because that relationship was wrong for her and she had unspoken difficulty with the why,” Cervone explained. He also took a moment to correct another user who incorrectly labeled her as bisexual. “I’ve said this before, but Velma in Mystery Incorporated is not bi. She’s gay.”
Warner Bros. has not commented on Gunn’s reveal as of yet.
178 Comments
Velma & Hot Dog Water 4 eva! “That’s my girl”
I wish they could have made that more explicitly clear, but that show was supremely wild for a “kid’s cartoon” MUCH LESS a Scooby-Doo reboot.Time for a rewatch. TRAPS!!!
And since Linda Cardellini was the voice of Marcy/ “Hot Dog Water” that was ANOTHER case of her same-sex relationship being glossed over! At least her character on Dead to Me got to hook up with Natalie Morales. That had to make up for a lot
At least it wasn’t outright queerbaiting. The constant hints at something more but always pulling back can really frustrate an audience. People can see it clear as day but the showrunners keep gaslighting the viewers. I recently learned that one of the most egregious examples of queerbaiting is the police procedural Rizzoli & Isles.
In fairness to Rizzoli & Isles, the showrunners intended to finally get them together the final season, but Angie Harmon vetoed it
Really?! that is something I didn’t know. My wife and I watched the whole series and completely missed anything like that.
The subtext was perhaps most notable in the episode where Jane went undercover with support from Maura on a series of lesbian dates to try to catch a murderer who worked at a gay bar & Maura wanted to know if Jane would be attracted to her if she was gay, and the episode where Maura had Jane pretend to be her girlfriend to deflect the advances of a guy.
At least we got Root and Shaw from Person of Interest.
Root & Shaw for my money are the greatest TV ‘ship of all time
I liked Rose and Bernard from “Lost” as well.
Who cares if their baiting, gas lighting, whatever.Those are two fine ladies.
I *just* watched that run for the first time! I was confused since they were strongly hinting at the lesbian angle, but they had spent so much time with Velma pining after Shaggy earlier. Cervone’s explanation above makes sense. For Velma’s sake, I hope “Hot Dog Water” isn’t still washing her clothes in recycled amusement park concession stand water.
I like a lot of Gunn’s work but I can’t help but assume that if she was gay in the movie it would still be done mostly for jokes and laughs anyways. 2002 was a different time where that shit was sorta the norm. Probably best that it was cut then or else it would make the movie even more uncomfortable to watch now, if possible.
I remember hearing one of the cut references involved Daphne loading luggage in an overhead compartment and the camera pans over to Fred, who’s checking her out. Then the camera pans a bit more, and Velma is as well. Which in 2002 sounds exactly like what you’re talking about.
I feel like that could be either a cheap cringey gay joke….or a cute character bit, depending on how it was shot. ie is the joke: “haha it’s funny that the frumpy girl thinks women are hot” or is it :“Daphne is gorgeous but oblivious about how gorgeous she is, and also the dramatic irony of revealing that Fred and Velma have more in common than you’d think”
That’s actually extremely progressive for 2002. Hell, that’s almost progressive for 2020.
I could see it going in either direction; the very concept of Velma being a lesbian is rooted in regressive stereotypes, but it also seems like over time she’s been embraced by the queer community and, as the article and other comments in the thread show, people have been clamoring for the subtext to become text, and to let her be the queer icon she’s become. In 2002, I have a feeling the joke would plop more in the former camp, and the movie would probably reach for the “check out this weird lesbian!” fruit.
I agree about the stereotypes, like I’m all for Velma being queer if it is written into her character correctly and not done as either exploitation or as some sort of “checklist” for a Scooby show/movie to appear progressive. I definitely have read her as a queer icon but not for any of her outward appearance stereotypes. I don’t think that movie, with all the body swapping and slapdash humor would have been the best place for Velma to have her first appearance as a non-heterosexual person. So I agree with your second paragraph, I saw the movie as a kid and remember when Fred was in Daphne’s body he looked down her shirt and laughed to himself cause he finally saw her tits. Definitely not much to embrace there.
I could see it going in either direction; the very concept of Velma being a lesbian is rooted in regressive stereotypes, but it also seems like over time she’s been embraced by the queer community and, as the article and other comments in the thread show, people have been clamoring for the subtext to become text, and to let her be the queer icon she’s become. In 2002, I have a feeling the joke would plop more in the former camp, and the movie would probably reach for the “check out this weird lesbian!” fruit.
I still have trouble taking James Gunn as a serious writer/director since my introduction to his work was Tromeo and Juliet. After watching that I’d be hesitant to trust him to have any gay subtext that wasn’t there to titillate or be the butt of a joke.
Gunn wanted to add sexual situations to a children’s cartoon that had none to begin with and was upset that they were cut? Fuck him.Velma is also not gay in the cartoon and even dated Shaggy briefly. Seems like Gunn wanted to make her gay because he likes originality and talent. Also, and because he fantasized about Linda Cardellini and Sarah Michelle Gellar making out. I remember liking the movie but wondering why it needed the modern “everything has to be ironic because the cool kids can’t ever be serious about anything’ vibe that all these reboots seem to have. so fuck Gunn twice.
The first live-action movie was supposed to be Rated-R and a parody of the cartoon. Basically, 21 Jump Street before that was the trend. Then WB forced them to tone it down until it was PG-13 so kiddies could come.
See also: the 90s Brady Bunch movie.
Before that was the trend?? Does anybody remember a movie called the Brady Bunch??? As I recall that movie was a ridiculous comedy making fun of bringing the wholesome family into the modern world. And as thread OP neglects to mention, Gunn was targeting the kids who watched the original series, as in the ones who grew up.
“Velma is also not gay in the cartoon and even dated Shaggy briefly”
There have been something like 45 Scooby Doo cartoons, many of which cannot exist in the same universe. Velma and Shaggy dated in one of them.
Cool your jets.
But we can all agree Fred is bi, right?
I’ll take it over the Scoob version where he wanted to fuck his van.
Hey, the Mystery Machine is pretty fuckin’ sweet.
I can’t see Fred as anything other than the personification of the phrase “the self confidence of a straight white male”
Self-confident enough to bang with dudes.
I can’t see Fred as anything other than the personification of the phrase “the self confidence of a straight white male”
That ascot is definitely curious
Fred’s more of whatever Mike Pence is.
No, Fred is all about traps.
Fred is the rare voluntary celibate.
Yeah, Fred and my wife!!! No, but really, it’s awful
Ascot and all! But don’t get crazy, the next thing you’ll say is that Fred wants to marry Scooby. It’s a slippery slope my friend 😉
bi or neutral, because I can only imagine him being smooth down there like a Ken doll
He’s into women and booby traps.
heh. you said booby.
Fred/Traps all day!
You bet your ascot!
Total bottom.
He is definitely into all kinds of bondage.
And, in that same cartoon, there was only a HINT of ambiguity regarding her and HDW’s relationship.
I honestly thought it was more than a hint, and the final episode made it clear that Velma and HDW had begun a relationship.
Oh, I’m saying that there was only the barest bit of ambiguity.“That’s my girl” made it all but explicit.
Yes, two women kissing and being gay is a “sexual situation.” Fuck YOU.
That makes no sense and you misread the article and my post. Fuck YOU.
Read both, you’re a fucking dumbass and waaaaaaaaah my cartoooooons. Did somebody “rape” your childhood? PURITY OF POPCULTURE. Done with your ass
Exactly what I thought. Being a lesbian isnt promoting sex to kids. It’s not harmful for kids to see a lesbian on screen or see two women kiss. 🤦🏼♀️
You’re right and that guy’s clearly an ass, but it was Gunn’s own quote that described it as “sexual situations”. The content cut from the movie would’ve probably been played for tittilation, sadly.
““You’re right and that guy’s clearly an ass, but it was Gunn’s own quote that described it as “sexual situations”. The content cut from the movie would’ve probably been played for tittilation, sadly.[highly debatable, as has been pointed out multiple times homosexuality =/= sexually explicit]”Yes, however the project was originally intended to be just that, much like the Brady Bunch movie of the same era, so that’s not exactly relevant to OP’s complaints.
you’re dumb
Being gay is not a “sexual situation.” Kissing is no more a “sexual situation” between two woman than between a man and a woman. You can’t tell me opposite-gender characters don’t kiss ALL THE TIME in animation for children.
Who said being gay was a special situation? The article didn’t. I didn’t. Did you miss the two separate paragraphs? Apparently. I don’t recall the characters kissing when I watched the show in the 70s.
Yeah, god forbid a filmmaker be into originality and talent. I want my movies to be formulaic retreads made by talentless hacks.
Also people aren’t allowed to kiss in children’s media, or even PG-13 adaptations of such. I *guess* Prince Charming can wake Snow White by holding her hand, but he’s on thin ice.
“originality and talent” are two words that have never been used on this site to describe James Gunn.
If you find life to be tedious, may I point out that – perhaps not by coincidence – you’re in yours 100% of the time?
Im aware of that thanks. And at least 75% of what people do is shit they make up because their life us also tedious.
Velma dating a man = normal, expected, good for a G-rated movieVelma dating a woman = “injecting sexualized content”, inappropriate for families, R-rated.Got it, makes sense.
nope. you got nothing. two separate points. but you need to combine them to make your point. got it.
Jebuzz. People kiss in kids’ movies all the time. I’m fine with my daughter seeing two women kiss and having it be completely normal.
There is as little need to include “sexual situations” to establish a gay character as there is to establish a straight one. You thought she was straight in the show without them showing her banging a guy did they?
i guess i did. so then why add people kissing and sexual situations into a cartoon that was fine the way it was?
People kiss in almost every children’s movie, especially the Disney princess movies. Other than the kiss, there were no sexual situations proposed to be in the movie, so I don’t know what you are talking about.
imagine getting pants-shittingly mad at the scooby-doo movie in 2020 lmao
imagine a pop culture site in 2020 so desperate for content they write an article about what a director wanted to do in the movie he made in 2002 but didn’t, then attaching a comment section to the article so people could discuss it. at any rate, don’t the authors of these posts get paid more when their posts get more views/comments, etc?
don’t the authors of these posts get paid more when their posts get more views/comments, etc?[[citation needed]]
“[D]on’t the authors of these posts get paid”.[[citation needed]]
Well, we know Barsanti gets paid in whiskey.
imagine a pop culture site in 2020 so desperate for content they write an article about what a director wanted to do in the movie he made in 2002 but didn’t, then attaching a comment section to the article so people could discuss it.at any rate, don’t the authors of these posts get paid more when their posts get more views/comments, etc? And here you are spamming the shit out of said article with as many red-faced angry comments as you possibly can. And all because you just shit your Depends over Velma dating a woman in an early version of a Scooby Fucking Doo movie that didn’t even get made. Holy fuck, you’re old, boring and terrible.The ‘authors’ of these posts thank you for blowing a gasket in such a publicly embarrassing way and allowing them to get paid more by giving them more views and comments. Which, of course, does not actually happen. I think you’re done here, tough guy. Back to pissing yourself over whatever other weird imaginary projections that take up the rest of your precious time on this planet.
I must have missed the meeting where it was decided that a person’s sexual orientation is now explicitly a “sexual situation”.
What are you Mike Pence? Get the fuck out of here you shitty bigot.
Homophobic much?
“Velma is also not gay in the cartoon and even dated Shaggy briefly.”Try reading the article, it addresses that.
Hey… Remember when they invented Spock’s adopted black human sister for Star Trek Discovery when she’d never before existed in canon? Pretty wild, huh? And then they made a whole show about her. You must be frothing about that too.
YEAH CUS LESBIANS NEVER DATE MEN BEFORE THEY DATE WOMEN>>>!@>#>!…
Chill dumbdumb.
It’s funny as grown ups to say whatever about Velma, but it’s a damn cartoon. Let the kids enjoy it as it is and leave all of that other stuff out of it. Romance was never really an issue in Scooby Doo other than between Shaggy and Scooby.
which was my point
Two women kissing is no more a sexual situation than a man and a woman kissing, but that happens in all kinds of children’t movies. Don’t be an asshole. Oops, too late.
James Gunn’s twitter is full of surprises. Just the other day he shook the Kamen Rider fanbase by giving us a shout and wondering why KR was trending. (There was a North America stream of a big Rider teamup film.)
my gf and I got baked and turned on Mystery Incorporated once…the relationship between Shaggy and Velma was like watching conversion therapy in action. They turned her into a raging vain idiot shrew b***h who only cared about coming between Shaggy’s relationship with Scooby. It was like the only point of the character’s existence was to negate any idea anybody ever had about her being gay, or being competent, and to completely destroy her character…as if the show was funded by the Chik-fil-a people. It was like a bad trip, I’ve never been that nauseated while high before, and I used to smoke some seriously awful schwag. It really hit my childhood right in the nuts.
Does Scooby Doo have enough brainpower to be in a consenting relationship with Shaggy? Scooby Dum is definitely out of the picture.
Scrappy definitely had the mental capacity, but I think there would be age of consent issues, even measuring in dog years, and no way is anyone humping him anyway.
I think it’s measured by how old the writers and voice actors are when you’re an animation
Hmm idk, that would make Bart Simpson 62 years old….
and a scientologist female…hmmm
Mystery Incorporated is the best Scooby Doo thing ever.Like the writers mention in this article – part of the reason Velma’s so nuts in the first few episodes is that she’s trying to force the relationship with Shaggy, despite the fact that she’s gay, and Shaggy just wants to hang with Scoob,
I guess we were too high to appreciate the brilliance of showing a character doing something they wouldn’t do to make the point they wouldn’t do it
I mean, the real issue is that you were too high to appreciate the brilliance of literally everything else going on in those episodes, because you were too focused on your OUTRAAAAGE regarding a closeted teenager having a shitty, unhealthy relationship with someone they’re using as a beard.Like the REAL love triangle of those first few eps:Fred, Daphne…and TRAPS!
So, again, from her acting like an aggro dingbat I was supposed to immediately glean that this was a brilliant end-around…despite that, as I understand, the show never ever had her be gay…because several years later a writer posted a drawing of Velma and a girl she did not have a relationship with on the show on Twitter. Man these guys are playing some real twenty-dimensional chess here, my gf was really stupid to become extremely depressed about the queer erasure of her character, which was apparently never thereafter explained. Did you know that in every scene of the Freddy Mercury movie, the Elton John movie, and the Alan Turing movie that did not happen on screen they were having fulfilling non-abusive sex? And that LeFou is the best. Valkyrie 4-ever.
Maybe actually read the article? Since, y’know, you didn’t actually watch the show?Velma’s relationship with Marci is very clearly romantic by the start of S2 (FAR moreso than, say, Korrasami ever was), and the finale removes any shadow of ambiguity.I say this all as someone who refused to watch the show for YEARS, even after hearing people sing its praises, because the idea of Shaggy and Velma dating was so offputting…but the first 10 episodes have enough other awesome stuff going on that they’re still very enjoyable.
I did read the article. I didn’t watch the show specifically because of this. It sounds like the tweet removed the shadow of ambiguity that the last episode did leave?
The last scene with Marci is her and Velma on a bed talking. Velma leaves to meet up with the gang, and Marci says “That’s my girl.”And, again, Marci is an important recurring character throughout the series, and her involvement with Velma is clearly shaded as romantic, even before that final scene.I honestly think the Velma/Shaggy thing was a misguided attempt to subvert viewers’ expectations (“Fred and Daphne aren’t together…but Shaggy and Velma are!”), which they managed to get themselves out of fairly effectively (Shaggy picks Scoob…but when he eventually tries to get back together with Velma, she realizes that she’s wayyyyy too good for him).Mystery Inc’s Velma is pretty firmly my favorite, even with the initial nonsense.
Okay I’ll stop arguing with you, thanks for clarifying
No worries, man!Like I said, I LOVE the show (best Western animated series since AtLA, IMO), but the initial status quo was definitely a bit too clever for its own good, and they struggled with how to get out of it.
AtLA is the animated version of the Kathy Ireland vehicle “Alien from LA” I presume? No wait. Outkast had a series?edit: oh god, I’m going to watch Alien from LA again, aren’t I?(satan: YES YOU ARE)
… i definitely misread that as Kylie Ireland.
that’s so crazy, it’s like misreading (porn star named for specific celebrity) for (specific celebrity porn star is named for)Strangely no porn stars names Elijah Wood…or maybe there are I’m not checking, but, to make my point, I know there’s Ryan Gozzling (sp?) whom I am sure some misread as Ryan Goslingand I bid you a lovely evening.
……there is a Ryan Gozzling?Well played, clerks.
The fact that that is an ACTUAL THING and you’re not just poking fun is one of my favorite things ever. Constantly.Shunted aside.For a new trap.
“It wasn’t just, like, for fun. Initially in the soul-swapping scene Velma and Daphne couldn’t seem to get their souls back together in the woods. And so the way they found was to kiss and the souls went back into proper alignment.”
Well, that makes PERFECT sense, I’ve always said that most problems can be solved by having cute girls kiss each other.
The Scooby Doo porn parody Velma and Daphne kissed (and, I don’t know, scissored or something) as a way to distract the bad guys so Shaggy and Fred could escape. I feel like that was a more reasonably plot-driven scenario than what’s described here.And as always, that’s what I heard about the porn parody from a friend of a friend. I of course don’t watch those kinds of films.
according to a friend of a friend, they’re not really that exciting and kind of boring. except for the bonkers batman one that was probably the most LOVING and serious homage to Batman 66 … well, ever. but with fucking.according to a friend of a friend of a friend… uh…
The Next Generation porn was clearly written by a fan(s) with ridiculous knowledge of and affection towards the source material. It plays like the best Trek fan fic you’ve ever seen with the occasional sex scene. Sadly, the non-porn actor they hired to play Picard on the basis of his striking resemblance to Patrick Stewart was a far, far worse actor than the adult film pros in the rest of the cast.
You WOULD say that…Q
😀
That Batman 66 parody had some serious art department chops, a replica 66 Batmobile, and boning aplenty!
“No fucking shit!”
-Everyone
It’s not as if it would’ve have stuck anyway. If the movies made her gay, but the showrunner of the next series wanted to make her straight, they’d be able to.Though at least it’s no longer people claiming Velma has been whitewashed for 50 years because SCOOB made her slightly Hispanic.
She was Asian once, too, in a live action TV movie.
Because of Rule 34, I’m pretty sure there already is an explicitly gay Velma out there.
Oh, believe me, there’s LOTS. Not including comic book characters, Daphne and Velma are the two biggest Rule 34 targets among Western cartoons made before 2000.
Even bigger than Wilma and Betty?
Yes, because Flintstones is only really kept in the modern eye via the cereal and vitamins, both of which focus on Fred and Barney, and MeTV. Scooby-Doo, meanwhile, has constantly been getting new product ever since the relaunch in 1996.
Not doubting you at all, but I do enjoy the way this is phrased in such a way that suggests that scientific peer-reviewed research into this very issue has been conducted to conclusively reach this conclusion.
There’s probably a Velma with tentacles out there.
I have a non-porn one on my computer glass (it’s funny how when talking about tentacles you *have* to preface with the term “non-porn”… because of rule 34) Velma facing off against what looks to be a more complicated version of the Day of the Tentacle crew.
#ReleaseTheGunnCut
He only wrote that one, not directed it. Those scenes were never even filmed.
#ReleaseTheVelmaButtholeCut
⁷I don’t have a problem with someone taking a character from a IP chestnut and making him/her gay but I feel it might be best to introduce a new character written and performed by someone from the gay community. I do have more of a problem when a character is made gay for the sake of jokes and when those characters are picked for stereotypical reasons such as she’s the plain or even just less beautiful of the female characters (i.e. Velma or Peppermint Patty.) Coding a woman character as gay because she wears glasses is particularly iffy.Also, Linda Cardellini is sooo much hotter than Buffy it’s more of a shame they didn’t portray her as a smart, capable and hot nerd whatever her sexuality.
Velma is hot. I thought that was a gimme.
Coding a woman character as gay because she wears glasses is particularly iffy.Idk man, I’m a Practicing Homosexual and both my wife and I wear glasses. Although, she didn’t wear glasses when we first met: I saw her squinting at something across the street and was like, “Wow, you really can’t see shit. Get glasses already.” Wait, is this the gay agenda?
The gay agenda. Brought to you by Luxottica.
Stop pushing the gay agenda on me! Oh wait, you’re a woman? ALL IS FORGIVEN! You, too, shall enter the Kingdom of God!
THEY GOT ME IN THE THIRD GRADE
BE GAY SEE CRIMES
Couldn’t agree with you more.
Where’d you find that cleavage, I thought they CGIed over it.
In 2010 if you said strong or competent female characters are likely lesbians you’d have been called out for toxic stereotypes. Do it today and it’s called empowering. If Frasier were made today I’m sure Niles would have had to have been gay, Frasier too probably. As someone who was a nerdy kid it gets pretty tiresome watching all the things I was stereotyped for growing up being inverted with no thought toward the basic assumptions.
Mystery Inc. in the original series (even Fred and Daphne) were not really romantic. If any character should be retconned as gay, it’s Velma.
I’m still pissed they cast a short actress as Daphne.
People code Peppermint Patty as gay because she’s a tomboy who loves sports and is a better baseball player than Charlie Brown and because she has a very close relationship with a female friend.But she also has a mad crush on Charlie Brown, a fact they often conveniently ignore.
I knew a woman who was gay who also would make comments about how hot certain celebrities were. Because we were in the military together during DADT. It’s kind of like people saying someone can’t be gay because they are married to the opposite sex. People do things to try to cover up their true self when they believe their true self would be ridiculed, at the least.
Even cartoon Velma is hotter than Daphne in my lesbophile opinion. “Plain or less beautiful” is definitely in the eye of the beholder.
It’s not like Velma being gay is a new thing. Sure, none of the iterations of her have outright said she was gay, but it was definitely assumed by a lot of people even when I was younger (for reference, I turned 10 in 1980. So, yeah, that long.)
“thankfully, the farting remained”- THE A.V. CLUB
[*farts*]
wtf is farts lol?
BONG
Velma ain’t gay, she’s 100% a pansexual dom. She missed a date with Daphne because she was too busy riding Fred down like a pony.Change my mind. Or actually no, save your time, because it’s the truth.
There’s a difference between ‘inclusive’ and ‘exploitative’. 3/4 of the female gay characters I’ve seen on TV and in the movies were put in there for the male gaze.
How have you only seen 4 lesbian (or female gay) characters on TV and in movies? There are dozens of us.
I don’t know about James Gunn, but I think Tony Cervone’s claim about wanting Velma to be gay is a particularly shameless example of retroactively cashing in on the current zeitgeist for queer cartoons, J.K Rowling-esque.
Today I learned Velma is a queer icon
This seems like a “Dumbledore was gay the whole time”-style reveal. Like, blame it on studio interference or whatever, but you don’t get to rack up brownie points for NOT depicting representation. … or fuck, maybe you do, I haven’t checked the responses to those tweets.
All through the second season, the show’s Tumblr and Twitter accounts were actively “liking” fans’ posts and fanfics about Velma and Marcie as a couple. Some of us who were writing them noticed.The characters were very affectionate around each other and even had a “love theme” that played when they were in peril together or having relationship difficulties. It was quite clear that the staff was trying to represent them as attracted to each other, even if they weren’t allowed to say so.
There’s a pretty obvious difference between Rowling having 100% control over what’s in her book, and not depicting Dumbledore as gay, and then later saying he’s gay; and Gunnn writing a screenplay where Velma is gay, and then other people changing what he wrote to make Velma not gay.
Ok, but this was also back in Gunn’s post-Troma “Chainsaw Lollipop”/pedo joke edgelord days. Hell, it predates his Dawn of the Dead script, which sprinkled in healthy doses of gay panic tropes. I’m more than happy to accept that he’s grown and changed since then, but let’s not pretend a lesbian Velma from that James Gunn was going to be any halfway decent representation, even by early aughts standards. At BEST it would’ve been exploitative fetishizing.
Anyone who is genuinely upset by this needs to get a fucking life. Now.
As a straight man who watched an inordinate amount of Scooby Doo growing up, and who has also dated a disproportionate number of intelligent, curvy brunettes with bob haircuts, this news surprises me a bit.
As a straight man who watched an inordinate amount of Scooby Doo growing up, and who has also dated a disproportionate number of intelligent, curvy brunettes with bob haircuts, this news surprises me a bit.
Hmm, I actually kind of prefer the idea that she’s bi. Not sure why, though.
I think it’s a little subversive to have the female character who’s a little mousier and doesn’t dress up as much still be into guys while still having LGBTQ content? Like, I would have loved to see her actually date Hot Dog Water on Mystery Incorporated but she also did seem very interested in Scooby when they were dating. The problem with their relationship wasn’t that she wasn’t really into him, it was that she turned really possessive and controlling when she was in the relationship- and honestly if she had a new one it might be good to discuss the fact that bad relationship patterns can still appear if you’re in an opposite-sex or same-sex relationship
“she also did seem very interested in Scooby when they were dating”Is that a typo or did that show go to weird places?
Definitely a typo, but also the show went to all kinds of weird places.
It is a typo though considering the subtext I could have maybe seen it- after all the line was “my boyfriend left me for a dog!”
She was into Shaggy in the show, but Velma/Shaggy/Scooby WERE in an Archie-like love triangle with Shaggy as the Archie.
Same here. Bisexual characters tend to be more rarely represented in the media, and it seems much more in-character for Velma to be bi. We’ve seen her attracted to guys plenty of times throughout the various Scooby cartoons, but she’s clearly got a thing for Daphne too.
That’s the vibe I got from the finished movie anyway; she had obvious tension with both Daphne & Fred.
He also took a moment to correct another user who incorrectly labeled her as bisexual. “I’ve said this before, but Velma in Mystery Incorporated is not bi. She’s gay.”I don’t have any skin in this game, but I’m curious – why is it important to emphasize that she’s gay and not bi? Is female bisexuality considered a half-measure in some way, like being sorta gay but indecisive about it? Because I’m pretty sure that’s not how it works, either sexually or politically.
Lesbians have a stereotype (and indeed, many do in real life) of despising bisexuals and calling them “fake gay” because they are into guys as well. Note that it’s mainly lesbians, while there are probably gay men who loathe bisexuals, the number is a lot lower and they aren’t as openly spiteful.
I dunno. Making Velma gay feels like such a stereotype – people and other shows (including Venture Bros) have been making gay jokes about Velma for ages. The only show I can think of that didn’t do that was that crossover with Johnny Bravo. It’d be more interesting if they made Daphne gay.
Velma’s same-sex attraction didn’t have to be stated outright but a nod would have been nice. We can all agree that Peppermint Patty is a lesbian but as far as I know it has never been specifically addressed. Same with Velma. In a perfect world she would be out and proud and shining a light on it wouldn’t need to happen. She would just be, without question.What is it with shielding kids from gay lives? Where do they think gay adults came from? They were gay children at one time. Also, pretending gay people don’t exist sets straight kids up for a confusing and rude awakening to the real world. Kudos to James Gunn for trying to normalize, not sexualize, gays for a younger audience.
“Kudos to James Gunn for trying to normalize, not sexualize, gays for a younger audience.”You might have been disappointed. Quoting Gunn:“Language and jokes and sexual situations were removed, including a kiss between Daphne and Velma. Cleavage was CGI’d over. But, thankfully, the farting remained.”
He was mocking the people who edited the script for valuing fart jokes over representation.
I mean, Gunn’s uncut film was Rated R, so kids largely wouldn’t have seen it (or at least, shouldn’t).
Release the Gunn cut!
I have no opinions on this. I’d just like more pictures of Linda Cardellini, please.
Needs more Nurse Taggart.
Helloooooo, nurse!
It’s a shame. The first Scooby Doo movie has a real energy to it—when I learned it had been cut back from something more edgy, I immediately knew it was true. Also, let’s be real, Linda Cardinelli is insanely hot as Velma, I definitely wish we had gotten the racier version.For the nimrods saying Velma can’t be gay because she wasn’t gay in the original Saturday morning cartoon, I say (1) I watched them every week at the time, and I don’t recall them addressing anyone’s sexuality, and (2) have you seen Hamilton? George Washington is black. Anyone can be anything, fuck off.
Good I’m glad they blocked it. Making a character gay because they happen to have a few traits straight society stereotypes as gay isn’t fucking empowering, it’s reinforcing harmful stereotypes. If you want to shock the normies then make Shaggy and Fred an item. But nobody would actually do that and y’all know it. Everyone just wants ally cookies for spreading toxic stereotypes.
Is Velma the one in the orange? Smart women wearing sweaters with matching knee socks are hot!
I could have sworn it was Aubrey Plaza who played Velma, but then I’m convinced that “The Man Who Wasn’t There” starred William Macy.